Amiga 2000 4.x 1MB Chip RAM and ECS Upgrade
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2019
- PCBWay STM Service Starts from $30 within 24 hours: www.pcbway.com/pcb-assembly.html
I'm upgrading my Rev 4.3 Amiga 2000 to 1MB chip memory (originally it has 512K chip + 512K fast mem) and to the ECS Enhanced Chipset.
Vesalia Computer: www.vesalia.de/?lng=e
Amiga Test Kit by Keir Fraser: github.com/keirf/Amiga-Stuff/...
GadgetUK164's channel: / gadgetuk164
Edu Arana's retro hardware store: www.arananet.net/pedidos/
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Music: "Skråblikk" by Focus 10 / user-993847645
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Equipment and tools I use are listed here: kit.co/janbeta (some links are affiliate links)
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Thanks!
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Thanks Jan Beta! I followed your instructions and it worked on my rev 4.4 board. All your restoration videos have been great guidance for me to revive my battery-damaged board
I love watching you work on this machine. Makes me wish I had kept my A1000.
Nice one Jan, how can you not love the 2000! :D it's a beauty
"seeming never ending series..." YES !!!! Great video !
I still have a lot of plans for this machine. There's probably going to be some different systems videos in between but the Amiga is not finished yet. ;)
Another great video Jan! =D Thanks for the link and mention Jan =D
Thank you sir! You are very welcome. :)
I'm not exactly on this stuff so I'm glad you explained it anyway, I really need to learn more about these conversions of later Amigas....also Deftones wooooo, thanks Jan!
Yes keep this series going love it
Finally, a chip memory upgrade yey
awesome jan good work bud.
Great vid mate, and do you have a new camera as the picture is better.
I see Fluttershy hanging out on the monitor. Nicely done.
Thanks! It was a gift from my kid. :)
Nice vid Jan 🤗🤗🤗 Kim 🤗🤗🤗
Nice video as usual!
The A2000 is such a beautiful/cute/butt ugly machine - I love it!
Nice job Jan
Thank you! :D
I just love square edged, 3D screen buttons with those excellent shadows. They look more like push buttons than actual push buttons :-) Interesting video and looks like a really worthwhile mod. One thing though. I understand why the chips have human names but Denise reminds me of a very unpleasant person from my past whom I never liked. It's OK Amiga, I realise you didn't mean it. ahaha. Looking forward to more vids on this one. Cheers.
Suggestion: Replace the crystal oscillator for the co processor with a faster one. Some might call this an overclock, but the chips can handle it without problems, it does not get hot at all. If it did get hot, it would just be a matter of mounting some heatsinks. (And its not like games suddenly go faster, the "overclock" is minor, but will help at certain tasks)
Nice job! I sound like a broken record but my A2000HD is my favorite Amiga. I forget what rev motherboard I have in mine but its a 6.x. Thing about these big box Amiga's your always opening them up to add and remove things and yea sometimes modify them. I would not mind having 2mb of Chip RAM but its not high on my priority list at this moment.
update : just changed my a2000 4.3 to an 8372a ; 1mb chip now in the house. thanks man
Nice! Glad that the video was helpful! :)
Nice videos 🙂👍
I need to get an Amiga !!!
500th like! 🎉
Woah, that's a lot. Thank you for the +1! :D
please sing more in you vids, you have a great voice 😎👍
Jan good work! If I had better knowledge of the Amiga back in the day I would have tried to keep my systems. I had an Amiga 1000, an Amiga 3000 and I think I had bought an Amiga 500, just before I had to get rid of them all when my mom passed and I had to liquidate. I hope to get my own place and then have enough time to use one. I think since the Amiga 3000 NTSC is probably hard to come by and is pricey I see, I think I may look to get the 2000 or 4000. My one question is do any of them support 16:9 modes?
Du hast den OSSC sehr cool!
kommt wohl auch bald ein Video zu ;) hope there will be a video about the OSSC aswell ? ;)
Ja, da kommt definitiv irgendwann ein Video. Kann aber noch ein bisschen dauern, gerade sammle ich noch Erfahrungen mit dem Teil.
Den habe ich auf meinem Weihnachtszettel geschrieben, soll ja wirklich top sein ;)
@@JanBeta Gucke schon länger still zu und melde mich genau wegen dem OSSC heute mal zu Wort.
Wollte gerade nämlich auch danach fragen. :) Hab jetzt vor kurzem mein Amiga CD32 mit WHDLoad, etc fertig gemacht und habe auch einen OSSC. Generell bin ich zufrieden, aber trotzdem hätte ich mal gerne Tipps von nem Amiga-Profi, was man ggf. an den Settings noch tweaken kann. Gerade im WB Interlaced Mode habe ich das Gefühl, dass da noch was geht. Aber vielleicht trügt mich mein Gefühl auch. :)
Und n Amiga 2000 hätte ich auch sehr gerne wieder. Hatte ich damals als Kind.
My Amiga 500 I got from a seller came "stock" as an OCS Denise and ECS Fat Agnus. WHATAMIGA shows them correctly and oddly enough WinUAE has a setting for Fat Agnus ECS only. So it looks like for some North American A500s there was a time "between" OCS and ECS where Commodore used some old chips and some new. I wouldn't mind finding a way to get my A500 to AMA chips, but I think they're not compatible with the older systems. Haven't looked too deeply.
Slow memory needs to be accessed via fast agnus (via DMA engine). This takes extra cycles, therefore it is slower, then accessing chip mem, which can be accessed directly (same as fast mem). Chip mem is shared with CPU, therefore half of clocks of it is accessed by Chipset.
Fast mem is accessed directly only by CPU.
Chip mem is accessed directly by both CPU and Chipset and it is (as far as I remember and I may be wrong) fixed time share - one pick for CPU, other for Chipset.
Slow mem is accessed via DMA, but Chipset can utilise it.
ECS Agnus can access slow ram as chip ram.
From eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=417761&postcount=4
"you can have some kind of 1M chip ram even with 0.5M+0.5M configuration as long as Agnus is ECS model."
1MB ECS Agnus in 512KB chip ram + 512KB slow ram configuration can still access slow ram as chip ram. This feature only works for ECS Agnus.
@@valenrn8657 this may be reason why slow memory disappeared from workbench 2.x
The ECS Blitter has a much larger max blit size. The old one maxed out at 64 words a line IIRC.
Back in the day someone called slow RAM 'slow fast RAM' which was pretty spot on. The name says it all :). And if you call slow RAM 'slow fast RAM' it's a nobrainer where to put it on such diagrams. Between chip RAM and fast RAM, of course :). It makes a nice transition between chip and fast RAM and makes understanding the difference between them easier. Chip RAM can be accessed by the custom chips and the CPU, but chips can block the CPU's access. Slow fast RAM cannot be accessed by the custom chips but can still block the CPU's access. Fast RAM can only be accessed by the CPU without any blocking.
Wow, "slow fast RAM" has a confusing ring to it... ;) But the explanation makes sense. Thanks! :)
@@JanBeta let's write it 'slow fastram', that might make it a bit clearer
@@JanBeta My Amiga has Fast Slow Fast RAM. It is Fast RAM, because it's only accesible by the CPU. But it is mapped at C0000, were normally Slow RAM would be (maybe Ranger Memory would be the better term). But it's Fast again, because it's not controlled by Agnus, it's SRAM, which can be accessed by the CPU with 0 Wait States. It works even with an overklocked 14Mhz CPU at nearly 0 Wait states.
7:30 does this count as an Obese Agnus? or is that something else?
Hi, Do you have a link to where you bought your upgrade chips? Trying to find NTSC fat agnus and a ECS denise chips...
Jumper 102 actually enables NTSC when connected. By cutting it, you told the 8372A Agnus that it's a pal machine. This is why your test disk told you it was a PAL Amiga ;-) I recommend installing a switch so that you can easily switch to NTSC for american made games which were meant to be displayed in NTSC as to avoid having a "crushed" look when played in PAL.
That makes sense, thanks. :) I guess if I want to play NTSC stuff I could always switch via the boot menu as long as I'm using a "modern" Kickstart.
@@JanBeta Right but a physical switch allows you to do it "on the fly" within the game (think of the old cracktros that allowed you to switch between PAL and NTSC). This also alows to keep the old 1.3 KS for maximum compatibility ;-)
It depends. Later 8375 Agnuses reuse the pin for an internal voltage Vbb that requires decoupling. In that case you have to make sure J102 is open, and a resistor removed from the board, and a 100nF capacitor added to ground.
@@jaycee1980 Obviously my answer solely pertains to his current setup (a 8372A Fat Agnus). I'm not even sure later 8375 agnuses fit in the 4.3 rev fat agnus socket.
I still prefer OCS chipset over ECS for some odd reason. Yet one meg chip is a really nice thing to have.
It surely makes things more snappy. ECS is not really necessary, I agree.
@@JanBeta True.... I bought one of them M68K-IDE adaptors on Amibay, that have 8mb FastRam. And with 1mb ChipUpgrade to the board and that adaptor, sandwiched between the board and CPU, then I can get some 900 to 920kb/s transfer rate. That however is when I use a real 7200 RPM PATA harddrive. CF cards still only gives around 600/650 kb/s. Why I do not know. Yet it is fast for a 500 machine.
Is there a difference between ecs and ocs in games though 🤔
At 06:48, you said "perhaps someone can explain this in more detail." I think I can.
In CPUs, cache memory is always the fastest memory before you get to the CPU memory.
In Amiga, think of Chip Memory as an "immediate working cache" to the custom chips, filled up in sequence first, long before you get to the the "Slow RAM" which simply extends or arguments Chip RAM. That's why it's "slower" then Chip Memory.
I could be right. I could be wrong. But that's how I'm reading it.
Hi, I have free places on A500 board (probably newer revision). Can I add additional 512K here?
Yes
Mein altes A2000 board hatte einen ocs/Ecs mix bestehend aus der 8372a Agnus, 1mb chipmem und der alten ocs denise version. Gibt es im a500 häufiger in dieser combo. Planst du den kickrom switch mod? Da gibt es lösungen ähnlich wie den switchless kernal switcher beim c64, kickromwechsel auf tastendruck, funktioniert dann aber mit einem 42pin 1mb Rom, dafür bräuchtest du einen Adapter für deinen 866cs brenner....
Ich habe hier einen sehr oldschooligen Kickstart-Switch herumliegen (so mit zwei 40-pin Sockeln und dreipoligem Umschalter), den werde ich wohl erstmal benutzen. Das entspricht in etwa dem Umschalter, den ich in meinem Original-Amiga von damals hatte. ;)
Ja, so einen habe ich mir gerade selbst gebastelt - Design von Mathias Münch, hergestellt von PCB Way ;)
Mal eine Frage: ich habe jetzt noch andere Umbauanleitungen für einen 4.3er A2000 gesehen und dort wird beim Tausch von Agnus am 8372A IMMER ein Pin ca. in der Mitte der "unteren" Kontaktreihe (also gegenüber der "1"-Markierung - Pin41) abgeklebt, herausgebogen, oder gar abgeknipst - Du steckst ihn aber einfach ohne jede Änderung in den Sockel des 8371 hinein?!
Habe ich da bei Dir jetzt was übersehen? ODER machst Du etwas anderes, weshalb dieses "Isolieren" des 1 Pins zum Sockel hin nicht nötig ist?
Question: Is it possible to install a IDE port without messing with accelerator cards which are really expensive? I have been looking for a way to get one, but all i found were the 3rd party drives which i can't find online in country, and shipping to it is really out of my limits price wise. IF anyone can help me out, please, reply to the comment, and/or send me a link to something that could be a DYI (that does not contain much soldering skills aka 40+ pin square chips) or a cheap attachment of sort for A500 (sub 60euros). Thank you in forward.
Jan Beta Sings! you should do a cover of Mack the Knife, or rather the German original, Mackie Messer
Haha, well, maybe. ;)
Great upgrade. I don't know anything about your Amiga's capabilities, but can you get wide-screen resolutions like 1280x720 or 1920x1080? It would be nice to get rid of the black pillars on the side.
I think there are some graphics addon cards that can output quite high resolutions. I don't know about wide screen stuff though.
When and how did you put in the fast RAM? Did I miss it?
22:28 ;)
@@kpanic23 Thank you, the RAM is on the expansion card?
@@DNinjaDave Yes it is. He installed it six weeks ago:
ruclips.net/video/ueeIq7pA3LI/видео.html
Super Denise chips are so expensive on ebay now that one could just spend a tad more and buy an Indivision ECS V2 which can directly replace a Super Denise with no need for a real Denise. And also is a flickerfixer, scandoubler and VGA out. Anyway, I don't see any point of Super Denise over a standard Denise other than 'just to have it'. I don't imagine many people would use the added Super Denise screen modes. Especially on a non AGA Amiga. I am working on a A500 Plus build now and am indeed missing the Super Denise. For now I have a standard ECS Denise in it, which came from a Rev.6A board. My plan is to put my Indivision ECS V2 in it so I get a full Super Duper Astronomical ECS machine.
Not sure there is a difference between ntsc and pal Angus. You could covert an a2000 to the other by jumping pin and the motherboard
Yes, the ECS Agnus could do both so you only needed to change a jumper. The older versions of the chip were specific to the TV standard though. Cf here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MOS_Technology_Agnus
Lips monitor ;)
Hi Janbeeta.
Hi!
Jan Beta I wish I could speak my 1 language as well as you speak your 2 !
Question - why isn’t slow memory just regarded as chip memory?
Because the earlier version of Angus only has an 18 bit address pointer, so can only address a maximum of 512K of RAM, and it's AGNUS that provides the DMA for Paula and Denise to use the Chip RAM.
@@heidirichter Hence the term "ChipMem". 😉
@@brostenen but chim ram only applies to ram that agnus can allocate a dma channel for the chips to use. Slow ram is ram on the same bus that is "slow" because it cannot be accessed by the custom chips, but is unavailable to the CPU when the custom chips are accessing chip ram.
So fast memory can only be accessed by the CPU, chip memory can be accessed by the CPU and the custom chips, but the custom chips have priority, and slow ram can only be accessed by the CPU, but is unavailable during chip ram access by the custom chips. Hence its "slow", as it's slower than fast ram, and it's not chip ram because the chips can't access it.
@@heidirichter More ChipMem, more fun. 😁 Just load it up with max FastMem, and you can forget all about SlowMem.
mein A2000 hat jetzt 2,5MB Chipram und 128MB Fastram
This machine is much to slow!
Not for like a good part of over 50 percent of all Amiga games. Sure for video editing, Mac, Atari and C64 emulation, you kind of need more power. 68000 at 7mhz, 1mb Ram and OCS is actually enough for most things Amiga-gaming. And then it all comes down to the 500 being the best choice, if you only want to game. This being a 2000, and looking at what you can do with it, then yes it is slow. For that there are one solution that solves it all. That solution is a vampire upgrade. So if Jan upgraded with an IndivisionECS-V2 or ScanPlusECS plus a Vampire-V2, then it would be like the ultimate 2000, for most things Amiga, in the world.
I have seen couple of videos concerning the vampire upgrade, especially the so called 68080 mod. Such a machine is way too fast to really work with it in any reasonable way. The author realised that and spowd it down to a 68040 mode and even that was more than sufficient in speed. I would say that an upgrade to a 68020 to run WHDload is more than enough...
@@hollgo626 I thought the 030 were more compatible with WHD loader. That is what I get from watching retrocengo's videoes on this matter. He does not like 040 for that.
If you want to run WHD loader, then something like a TF-530 or TF-534 is perhaps the best option, when looking at price/performance ratio.
If you want to run stuff like emulators and games such ad Alien breed 3D or just flawless scumm-vm. Perhaps do some 3D modelling on Amiga. Then a vampire is a must. Unless you go for Amiga4000 with cyberstorm 060. Here we are talking highend Amiga productivity and gaming.
If you just want to play 80's and 90/92 games, then you do not even need an accelerator. As there are still good floppy disks to be found and you have the option of using a gotek drive in external case and a boot selector.
Let's just say I have plans. I'm not finished with this Amiga yet. ;)
@@JanBeta Looking forward to see.... Vampire? Would be awesomme, as you can do some serious stuff then.
NO Jan, please don't play with this machine. It is to important. You can not be play with this machine.
Yes, this must be used to everything Amiga could do ;)
An Amiga with 512k ChipMem is no fun. Need that 1mb, for things to get fun, or even 2mb, yet for that you have a600. 1mb ChipMem and 8mb FastMem and then it is a really fun machine. Never mind the SlowMem after such an upgrade.
Maybe an upgrade to a 68020 or 68030 could be interesting to run WHD load....
@@hollgo626 Terrible Fire. Just like one of my Amiga500's.... to9xct.blogspot.com/2018/12/amiga-500-turbo.html?m=1
Also the expansion slot of the Amiga 2000 is much faster then the Zorro 2 slots, so that's why it's best to buy a acceleration card with a bunch of memory.