(Pt 4) Hot-Sauce SAAB...Back on the ROAD? ('93 9000 CSE Turbo)
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- Опубликовано: 5 сен 2024
- The owner of the "Hot Sauce" 1993 Saab 9000 CSE Turbo wants us to take care of a couple more things to make the Swift Swede ROAD-WORTHY before he picks it up.
First we have to WATERPROOF the ECM to avoid a repeat FLOOD disaster!
Then let's reinstall the front fender liner and trim, hubcaps, weld up the holy exhaust pipe, and make a couple final tweaks to make the Saab more driver-friendly :)
Enjoy!
Ivan
The way you take on challenges that most would run away from...and emerge victorious pretty much every time, is friggin' amazing.
The Saab cars are really something else. You do in-fact feel the tightness in the engineering. They are not the rattle-traps of todays cars. I have an old friend who still has a 1984 Peugeot 505 STi with about 80K on the odometer. Although I had never been a fan of Peugeot, it's so awesome that he has kept his car in near pristine condition and it runs really well. Pretty much all he does with it today is show it off at car shows with other cars of it's generation.
An era we may never see or feel again. The way Mercedes, BMW, Volvo, and Saab drove and felt may never return.
I live in London, UK. But in 2002 I was living in Sunapee Lake, New Hampshire and I had a 1987 Saab 9000 turbo, just like this. Auto though. It was amazing in the winter. Loved that car.
Hi Ivan,
Glad you were able to remedy all the drivability issues. Nice to see Amanda along for a ride.
This platform was actually not developed by Saab alone, but it was a co-development with Fiat, which used the platform on the Fiat Croma, the Alfa Romeo 164 and the Lancia Thema. You did get the Alfa in the USA, the others were Euro market only as far as I am aware.
Man, that Thema with the 32 valves V8 engine was an incredible car
@@ClockDev the Lancia with the 2.0 turbo tweaked was obscene....
The alfa v6 busso was epic.
The fiat was meh
Yeah, just watched Number 27 talking about that very thing.
Fist= fix it again Tony..
@@MitzvosGolem1Fumbled in acronym trying
I was impressed that someone got a going with the mismatched throttle body. Not perfect, but got on the road. Another fun diag, research and repair.
The Saab 9000 was part of the type 4 platform shared with Lancia, Fiat and Alfa.
I had a 'Hot Sauce' Lancia Thema Turbo as a company car and it was so good I ended up buying it off the company.
Lancia had an overtake mode which gave you 12 seconds of overboost triggered by flooring the go pedal.
Also Renault shared the platform. I believe the doors are interchangeable...
There are so many mechanics refusing to work on pre-OBDII cars now (one of my local shops is one of them)... It's great to see that you're not one of them, Ivan. Well done, sir!
I’m one. Retired 8 yrs ago after 50 yr career. Those OBD1 cars came into our shops less and less. Owners didn’t want to spend money on them. Obsolete scan tool connectors were lost from lack of use and our skills went south with age.
Ivan is in a one percent class of techs that know how and their bodies are still able to tackle jobs like this. The owners are unique in that they obviously have the disposable income to fix up some of these much neglected and abused cars. Don’t think for a minute that there were hours and hours of research off camera to make a video. I’m sure a lot of frustration over lack of information and all the patchwork repairs over the years.
I worked at dealer in 70-80’s. I like the effort. I question how wise to fix a rusted car with parts very scarce. Not my call.
@@dharley189 I understand, and your description makes total sense. And I agree that Ivan is probably in that top 1% of diagnosticians who is willing, able, and capable of tackling some of these “old messes”. I’m just surprised some of these independent shops won’t even consider working on an older car on a case-by-case basis. I can understand not wanting to attempt to work on a hacked up older car, but not one that hasn’t been molested by amateurs. I guess I just have to accept the fact that the “young” mechanics just know how to operate a scan tool and change a part, and that’s all that is expected of them. 🫤
@@badgerdave22 I think part of it is the lack of experience due to younger age.
And face it. Computers helping us diagnose has made most techs lazy.
I remember when Ford finally provided a data stream on Taurus models. Hooking up a BOB was a major pain on most of them.
I would get a hefty deposit before working on a hacked up car like that Saab.
Yea not really the OBD-1-ness for me but with the obscurity of this car one look at the hacked wiring and flooded ECU would have had me tapping out unless the owner was just throwing money at me
Glad to see that excellent machine back on the road! They no longer make (and will never again make) them like that - they should all be preserved. Great job, Ivan!
Great deduction Mr. Holmes, your automotive detective skills are amazing to watch. I've worked on a lot of crazy stuff and could not keep a smile on my face like you. Great work!
Hi Ivan, An interesting story I heard about Saab/GM. When GM took over they sent a management team over to Sweden to assess how they do things. In their evaluation, GM told Saab how they wanted to do things, from engineering to component supply, and left them to it. In response, the Saab team completely ignored GM and carried on doing things their own way! Sadly I think this accelerated their demise. Eventually, they had no choice but to follow the GM line, but quality and interest in the brand nose-dived. In the end, a Chinese company made a bid for Saab when GM put it up for sale, but GM refused to sell to the Chinese. I'm not saying it's an actual fact, but a story I heard repeated many times.
Ivan should get one for himself. I own its cousin, a 98' Volvo high pressure turbo with a manual 5 speed, a blast to drive and easy to repair when needed. Fine Swedish engineering.
Good morning Ivan. Good to see another old cruiser massaged back to happy. 👍👍🇺🇸
You and Eric o have wifes that loves you, you are both lucky guys
Yeah.. these guys are living the life. Nice homes.. Nice family.. Good career.. Good youtue channels. We need a country of men like this and nothing less
If it's Swedish and turbocharged, Zia's presence becomes mandatory.
Great series of videos on the work you did on this fine car. I've never driven one, but I'm old enough to remember seeing many of them on the road.
5:39 Borat approves!!!
VERY NICE
My first shop job was euro cars in 1990-95, saab 900 was a tank. Weird as hell , everything was inverted,auto trans was part of crankcase ,but a good damn car and easy to diagnose.
It's great to watch your videos that help owners keep their pride and joy vehicles going when these problems arise
Glad to see you and your wife using the seat belts.
Nice work my friend. Hi Miss Amanda. Nice to see you in a video.
I love manual transmissions. I think that is a big part of why I enjoy riding my motorcycle.
Back in the day, when as a 'non mechanic', I could actually work on my car. The good old days. Another great series, Ivan. I love the old classic car fixes.
This Saab must have been designed by G.eneral M.onster
Another excellent redesign of electrical work.
Always great to see your lovely wife. I never miss your videos Thanks for your time and for educating the world.
Good job there Ivan you are really a thinker when it comes to mechanical an electronic stuff you got a heck of a head going there but I cannot desire to have a Saab it just doesn't fit my lifestyle if I want performance I go out and drive my 70 challenger with two four barrel hemi engine automatic or a 440six pack 70 challenger 4 speed manual or the charger stable 1970 that my mom and dad bought brand new 383 auto 4 barrel or 69 charger with the 440 6 pack manual trans. no turbos needed here but make sure you got plenty of premium fuel to suck down,, these are what float my boat it's great to be American and you can drive whatever you like and enjoy
May need to do a CPS relearn to zero it in ! Its protocal to do this after replacing at least on most gm cars ! Yes it may run fine but can also mess with fuel trim and misfire monitors ! I just did one last week ! The waveforms are %100 spot on !
I don’t know how the car feels but, you sure smile a lot when driving it !
The last "true" Saab was the 900 classic. The best Saab was the 99. The 900 was lengthened for US market and thus a bit heavier and more cumbersome to drive than a 99. The interior space is the same, by the way, mid section is identical. The 9000 that you have was a Fiat/Lancia/Alfa Romeo/Saab collab. The engine and gear box were true Saab, though.
I worked at Saab dealer late 70’s-mid 80’s. Saw a few Sonnets, a lot of 99’s. A ton of 900’s and some 9000 before starting my own shop. A lot of useless knowledge in my head. Like timing those key switch gears and not losing that 3 eared socket for disassembly. Scrapped all my special tools about 3 years ago. There is an old 900 across the street from my old shop. I worked on it when it was under warranty. Told the owner I was too old to work on it at 70. But that I still knew how ‼️
I miss my 97 900se
I thought it was on the way back to you with those photos of it stopped on the side of the road!
Very cool, nice protective cover for the engine computer, shouldn't get wet again.
Saab 9000 was actually part of the "Tipo 4" design between Italian car brands and Saab. Other cars in this project were Fiat Croma, Lancia Thema and Alfa-Romeo 164.
I once used a plastic peanut butter jar that I cut the walls and wrapped it around the steering column for a 89 LeSabre, because the cable with a orange needle would slip off around
The shaft of the column
Ivan, you gave the impression that after GM took over SAAB they weren't very good cars.....I would say you are correct. Just an observation, but Amanda didn't seem to show the level of excitement she did with the Maserati. GREAT VIDEO!
Amanda sounded like my wife. When I asked her "do you know what kind of car that is?", she answered "it's a red car". 🤣 That is about the extent of her knowledge or interest in vehicles.
Glad its on the road, can't understand the design oversight that drained water right onto and into the ECU.
I have this same passion about my 97 Isuzu Rodeo.. 5spd 4x4..
It's so fun to drive and I took it everywhere off-road and it always impressed people with it's capabilities.
I was never a fan of them they were always finicky & when you get or go to get in the entrance feels like you are climbing into a bus however each to his/her their own & the one thing I do agree with is keeping older vehicles on the road I am doing that with my Nissan Pulsar N16 I put my mid range scanner on it yesterday no codes checked all the other things it would show & all were in spec ,no oil leaks no problems with gearbox & clutch the reason I love it (22 years old) & still goes like a scalded cat.Cheers Ivan I do not have as much electronics so it is easy to maintain ,You do a great job of keeping the old electronic vehicles on the road I hpoe you get properly reimbursed for it.
They were praised highly back in the day as a drivers car, the drummer Cozy Powell lost his life in a crash with one, he loved his fast bikes and cars...
Congrats on saving this one. Wonderful!
Neat series. 1 thought. IMO, some of that 'throttle bog' you were experiencing while doing a rev while parked, could be the result of good ol fashioned turbo lag. I'm not sure whose turbos SAAB or Volvo were using at that time, but domestics like Chrysler switched from Garrett to Mitsubishi around '90, and then to a VNT style by 92 to help with that low rpm lag. The original 84-88 Mopar turbo cars were notorious for it, especially with an automatic. I could be completely wrong about your case, but just thinking out loud.
That squeak would drive me mad.
OEM water bottle deflector...love it. Was thinking I'd use a ziplock bag...your solution better
Good stuff Ivan. I actually enjoy working on pre obd cars. Things were so much simpler back then. Now, even budget cars can have more than 30 computers to operate things that were once controlled by simple switches, knobs and levers.
brilliant job ivan loving the videos
"Just makin' boost" Thanks Ivan!
As usual Ivan another awesome series. I believe you would make a great automobile designer / manufacturer. I could see you being the next Tucker 😃!!! I can imagine your car company would be getting progressively better with age. I think you would be very good at it!!!! Such a beautiful place a beautiful part of the world that you live in!
What a crazy car thanks for sharing the repairs I'm still learning
SAAB took a turn for the worse once GM took 100% ownership. The original SAAB oil filters were made by Mann and were big for a 4 cyl. One day when the stock order arrived, new oil filters were sent. The cases looked like the cases AC Delco filters came in. Our oil filters were now AC Delco made and the size of the Oldsmobile PF47. The boxes and filters still had SAAB printed on them. Long time customers were surprised when handed these puny filters. I still had several cases of the original Mann made filters I hoarded. 🙂🙂 Everyone chose "the big filter".
Speaking of which, i usually change my own oil BUT many years ago it may have been freezing temperatures (Canada) i take my VW Jetta Turbodiesel into a chain store to get oil/filter change. Later i opened the hood to find a filter HALF THE SIZE of what should have been on it. I go back and ask what the hell! So, they offered to change it and gave me a free oil change for the next time. BUT STILL what kind of tech takes a large filter off and replaces it with one half the size? I don't know if the dipsticks looked up a VW gas engine or what they did. I made the mistake of putting a pos FRAM air filter on that car. Checking it one day i find a hole sucked thru it. Same chain store offered me a free replacement. No thanks, never again, the VW dealer was an hour away but i never used an aftermarket air filter in it again. Had 698, 714KM on that car when an a-hole running a red light totaled it and nearly killed me if i had been a fraction of a second faster through the intersection.
Really loved this series Ivan. Makes me miss my first car 1986 Dodge Lancer hatchback. I learned how to work on everything in that car.
Awesome job Ivan👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Just watched Jack at Number 27 test drive and give some history on these cars.
Man that little slide show at the end had me choked up. I think Ivan is missing this car. 😢
I had a 1985 Renault Fuego Turbo with a Bosch Mechanical Fuel Injection you could adjust the idle speed but adjusting the amount of air going in by turning a knob. I like that Renault a lot beautiful seat and comfortable ride.
Very good Ivan! Hope it stays running a long time. I've only ridden in a Saab one time, so my knowledge is what I've seen in your videos.
Ivan, our ThinkTool PROS came with a bunch of adapters. I thought you'd maybe find one compatible with the SAAB early version OBDII connections and get it to reveal all its secrets! Alas... :)
Good Work!
I have a 2002 Saab 9-5, the model that, with GM influence, replaced the 9000. By then the power has been increased in Aero spec, to 250bhp. But basically the same engine as the 9000 and they could be tweaked to much higher output if desired.
Mine is auto so the 0-60. Is adequate for its era but not super fast. The smart thing about it is that the power curve seems to be linear from about 40 mph to 120 and possibly more.
As I understand it the 9000 can be similar although the base tune in it's era offered less max power output. The delivery should be similarly linear.
I remember the Saab's only worked on a few...
I'm on your wife's side--as a Toyota man...when it comes to Saab's...I only see color Red as the difference : )
i hope saab didnt put the electronics for their planes in high moisture areas.
Really nice cars. Sadly the SAAB brand is no longer.. So these cars will slowly become collector cars. Some already are like the Sonnet, the first ever 99turbo, Saab cabriolet. I only ever had 1 Saab from the GM era. But the first Saab i ever drove belonged to a work collegue , it was a green metallic 99turbo2 It was also the first turbo car i ever drove. It made a deep impression on me. mid range torque was so impressive. (my reference was a 100hp BMW 2002. No where near as fast.)
That was an interesting video series and I was happy to hear you talking about how much you liked the car. There are a lot of cars I find interesting, but I have to force myself to work on others (I'm retired, though).
On the CKP signal, I was wondering if the Saab has waste spark or multiple spark events per combustion event, and whether the injectors fire in pairs or all at once. I know you're 1000 times more experienced than myself, but can't help but offer some reason for the CKP signal seeming so wonky. I also wonder if the Saab crankshaft follows the most-often-used firing order of so many 4-bangers or is totally different ( like some Yamaha motorcyles).
AFAIK, the Saab on this era with the turbocharged engine used their own spark system that they named, 'Trionic.' It uses individual coils for each spark plug. The uniqueness is that is uses a complicated system to run an almost contsant cuŕent through the plugs. With that it can determine the effiency of combustion, and where the piston is in the combustion cycle. Hence the system doesn't need a camshaft position sensor.
I find it interesting you looked at the throttle cable adjustment last or seemed to. Just the sign of the times.
I think your wife needs that car for a daily driver. Make the owner an offer. 🙂
hey Ivan the windscreen wiper linkage looks like it is going to hit the ecu water cover that you put there
Wipers work fine, no interference 😊
Another 100% satisfied customer.
Saab was in a financial tailspin when GM took over. If they weren't, they wouldn't have been for sale in the first place.
SAAB success!
The problem is "Water Always Wins".
Especially when I have to fix plumbing!
Ivan saw your friend shifting, the car need new motor mounts/reaction strut. In those days there was a power limit (insurance issue) to 192 bhp.
The 9000 Carlsson and Aero from this era had 225bhp.
amazing patience, did you ever check for a vacuum leak or measure vacuum old scholl guy like me vacuum gauge is old mans scope
I had a 1977 99 EMS excellent car simple no issues.
Another original Saab saved !
❤
Hi Ivan a previous comment said the computer is upside-down so condensation should drain out the holes.
Saab's and the pre Ford Volvo's were built like tanks.
I see a SAAB in your future! :)
Ivan Your Absoluply correct, i had a 1988 Saab 9000 Than i purchased for $100 the gentleman came to the auto part store i was working at that time to purchase a battery for the saab the original battery was in those days around $200 dollars , he said no he wanted a cheap battery to take the car to the junk yard, i offer him the 100 and got my self 1988 9000 turbo i had the car for 3 yrs after GM Took over the saab brand they ran it to the ground.
Only took half a tank of fuel to diagnose and test drive this baby.
Looks like you had some fun with this one.
Im surprised you did not put those wires running across the engine in a bit of split loom sheathing.
The engine computer is mounted upside down, the workshop manual for it states that "it has two ventilation holes at the bottom", so turning it so that the connector is at the bottom would have solved the problem rather easy.
Very interesting...
Those OEM Saab plastic jugs don't grow trees you know
The waterlogged computer likely drained the battery to zero.
Is there soposed to be a pipe connected to that plastic cowl and out the drain hole had a similar problem with my fiat
The washer jet sysem has a rubber hose running about 3 inches from the ECU - not SAAB's greatest idea as it would split and soak everything
When I look at it, all I see is a 90's Ford Escort with leather seats. lol
Sorry Ivan but that squeaky, chirpy noise would drive me insane. Keep up the good work!
In my '95 Saab 9000, driving with the windows down or sunroof open, results of that kind of noise.
Great video series. With the computer, would it hurt to put a small drain hole in the computer module?
I was actually thinking that too 😅
Now get the body work done! Nice machina...
Nice Job Ian
Buckle up with the wifey in the car!
With all those ecu problems this car could be a prime candidate for a Speeduino ?
You must have to spend a fortune on Kleenex when you own a Saab. You're always Saabing.
Research the "Long Run: Saab at Talladaga for some great video on the 9000/
Ivan burning the midnight oil? the video release at yeehaw early Sunday AM. oh wait, I'm awake and have been 🤓
Yup.
well done.
I can't help but wonder where that extra air is coming from causing that high idle.
Are you sure that there is not a 'missing' water shield for that computer? Maybe it came with one originally?
The last real SAAB? Well these 9000's, the bodies, are made in Italy. Not assembly! It is a joint venture with FIAT,-LANCIA and Alfa Romeo! The engine might derived from Triumph or Opel
Cars which are almost the same but with less safety features then SAAB are:
FIAT Croma
LANCIA Thema (including the 8.32 with de-tuned Ferarri engine!)
Alfa Romeo 164.
I'm surprised it doesn't have an 8-track
8-tracks were disco'ed at the end of the sixties, this is a 90's car.
🤣😂
Cassette player yes,
this car is WELL past the 8 track era.
@@DinDooIt I beg to differ, my 70 fairlane still had an 8 track in use when I traded the car in in 81, but I will agree they were history by the 90s, but it sounded good.
@@samueljames9342 All good brother. Sometimes I wish we could be back in those days.