Building a Real Life Flight Simulator. Pt 2
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- Опубликовано: 10 фев 2025
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Hi Michael, for the altitude control of a drone, a slider isn't very good as movements aren't natural, may be you should experiment with a lever, the same as for a chopper collective command, hence lever at full horizontal is engines running slow and, let's say at 30°~40°, engines running at full speed. That would trigger a modification of the left block of the chair (best way : make it modular to easily change from lever to throttle), because this kind of control is much easier and precise when the lower position of the lever almost equals to the full extension of your arm.
Another interesting thing with this kind of control would be to extend the (~middle course) range where the drone is vertically static to achieve an even better altitude control - this, of course, would need possible adjustments (middle point and window size), as it depends widely on the drone weight.
For the camera, it wouldn't be useless to have a vertical ~120° displacement, -90° to look at the ground (landing made much easier) and +30° to look above - of course, this means the camera must be moved to a position where it can shoot the ground.
For the gear controlling the camera, it may be interesting to see what it could do adding a coupling with a rotation command - you look right, the camera also looks right and the drone spins right (bonus : if you sensors include accelerometers, you can tie this command speed to your head's).
I don't have both option 😢
Awesome you did this. Very disheartening it made controlling the quadcopter harder.😢 I would be very interested to know if it is a system issue or just a novelty of the controls. I gather Nurk isn't going to lobby DRL to use these chairs/controllers.
I think a collective or what ever a helicopter uses the pull rather than push for throttle IMO
@@jamesbond-pr5jl A chopper do _not_ throttle, all operations are made at a constant rotation speed.
Thank you so much for swinging by and letting me try out the simulator! Was an UNREAL experience! Let's find more trouble to get into soon.
Dude.... I know you're already a father but when you said "shucks" the universe determined you didn't have enough kids to pull off a dad joke of that caliber... Pretty sure your wife conceived triplets when you said that, congrats! hahaha
@@CantFly_FPVo
If you're going to have the camera pivot physically on the plane you really need a HUD to keep track of the pitch and roll of the plane/drone so you can pull sick moves without losing track of where it's going
exactly what i was thinking, also some way to tell your height from ground, angle of ascent or descent in relation to angle pilot is looking etc
with some improvements it could really be incredible,and if he modifies it well it could be a thing for a decent amount of people to enjoy, sure not everyone will have the space and money but plenty will and if i was in this hobby I'd love one.
Isn't the issue here, that directly translating the position of the drone to the position of the chair, creates an incorrect feeling (unless acceleration is zero?)
What I mean is; assuming the drone is in the air and in a completely fixed position, if you accelerate forward without rotation (not possible on a quad) the chair should tilt backwards to give you the sensation of G force on the x-axis, but in reality your chair is staying level or tilting forward.
I'd love to collaborate on the adaptor signal with you that generates the correct g-force readings and feeds those to the chair. (Or are you already onto this for the third video in the series? :) )
Either way - phenomenal work here Michael!
Yes! This chair could be so much better if it used the acceleration vectors as the inputs. Flight controllers already have this data and it can be sent back via telemetry.
The chair won't be able to simulate the acceleration magnitude but it can at least simulate the direction of the acceleration vector (limited to the char's movement).
IMO, it's just a toy without using the acceleration as input.
idk I'm just sharing my opinion. What I think is using the position data might not be that bad given the position data is updated according to its 2nd order rate of change, acc. So in an accelerating car too the driver's seat moves forward with the car and the driver gets pushed backwards against the seat (so the G force feeling is more from the driver's reaction with the seat cos of inertia). Also the chair has only 2dof if I'm not mistaken so mapping and reflecting the accl might be pretty difficult. Again, idk if any d case here.
@@oluwaferanmi100 The position data isn't very important. The important data is the acceleration. An aircraft can have a 45 degree bank angle while having the acceleration of the pilot could be directed straight down through center of the seat and feel the same as when the aircraft is sitting still on the ground.
When airplanes make coordinated turns, the pilot doesn't experience any sideways acceleration. All the acceleration is straight down through the seat as if the pilot is sitting level on the ground. When a turn isn't coordinated, the pilot is pushed to one side of the cockpit or the other. This sort of acceleration feedback would be very useful to a pilot. Even with just two degrees a freedom, a properly programmed chair could provide a lot of useful feedback to a pilot.
Without using the acceleration as feedback, the chair isn't really acting as a flight simulator. *Without using the acceleration as feedback, the moving chair is less of a simulator than a stationary chair* since the moving chair would often be providing opposite feedback from what a pilot would really experience while actually flying.
@@ddegn hmmm. I think I get it now. Thanks for the awesome explanation 🙏.
The other thing you MUST do in a motion cuing system is to null out at least part of any long-duration acceleration cues, so that more range of motion is available for subsequent cues. I'll restate that: you have to return closer to zero after a while at any cue. There are many papers about such things; here's a good one from NASA. ntrs.nasa.gov/api/citations/20050180245/downloads/20050180245.pdf
I’ve had this idea for years, I’m so glad someone else with the means to make it happen did as well! This is so cool
Holy shit, bro just made being a commercial pilot a whole lot more cheaper.
Fr
The engineering skills here are out of this world! Yeah I'd love to see build plans
I think this would be an awsome project to get into Motion Device building!
I'm all in. I do not have the engineering skills, but I can build! Thanks
You have invested a tremendous amount of time to get to this point. Using 21st century technology is really amazing to see.
This is an amazing piece of craftsmanship! But let me offer a suggestion:
Just because it's a chair with motion simulation, DOES NOT mean you need to be using conventional stick and rudder controls for input.
Imagine taking this same setup, but doing a completely original interpretation of the control structure, creatively, from first principles.
Look at the controls of a PPG (a brake toggle in each hand, plus speed bar). Look at the controls of a PPC (foot steering). Look at the various aircraft that steer by weight shift.
These pioneers found themselves outside of the envelope of conventional fixed-wing design, and came up with original solutions that fit the problem at hand, rather than chasing expectations. Heck, even conventional aircraft designers have experimented with different configurations of sticks, yokes, and sidesticks.
You have the technology. You have the wherewithall. You can do so much more than just make imitations of things that already exist. If it doesn't feel intuitive, _find what feels intuitive_.
23:33 Wow, what a great example of how a stall can dramatically impact an otherwise previously stable flight 😉
I just saw the first part of this build. Being late on the scene, all of my comments were addressed. Awesome!
Wow! Talk about FPV to the extreme fun!
Air 2 Air combat with friends with this gonna be crazy 💀
frrr😂😂
A flight simulator doesn't mirror the position of the plane, it creates movements that will try to replicate the forces felt by the pilot. If the plane was motionless that would be the same but it's accelerating in all sorts of directions and so the movements of the chair have to be quite different to simulate those forces. It's a wee bit more complicated than what you did.
Brilliant- would love to use this for flight ground school training - have a serious med condition that prevents me from ever getting a flying Lic of any kind
Man this is awesome! So many applications, and lots of fun ahead. Would love a streamlined approach to building one at home. Thank you for sharing!
I can't wait to see you sell a kit for this simulator!
I am 100% convinced if we put you anywhere in the world with the right materials you will get out of there , my new nickname for you is MacGuyver! Well done mate, well done!
What a great builder series - Thank you for sharing this.
We were doing this in the early 90’s. I used a Schluter .60 Champion helicopter. We sent the return signal down the audio channel of the FPV camera. I think the name on the black box was DPC… have to dig it out again. This black box allowed me to connect a regular force feedback joystick between the buddy box and the remote. I could assign the switches too for flaps, gear, head tracking, lights, bomb release, etc. BTW, that same company also made a 3D camera that worked with the goggles too. No affect at altitude but within 20 feet, the 3D works awesome.
The project is truly Genius and in some time it could be the next great thing. so continue the great work.
Good on you @nurk !!!!
I've been waiting for this video for a long time, it was worth it
Neato! I can begin to imagine the amount of time the parts in the beginning needed to design and print
Congratulations your dedication to a project is amazing 🎉 owning a 6DOF myself. I can tell you that a 6DOF and VR combination is amazing ❤
For drone control, using one of the speed controller handles, you could make an "Automatic Height Control" handle, with manual at one of the extremes, and from there apply different heights based on the setting of the handle.
Again you knocked it out of the park! It would be cool to see a collective integrated into the chair so that it would fly more closely to full scale rotocraft. I think that may make the altitude a little more controllable. It would be interesting to see a full scale heli pilot in that too.
Not sure if I would use a rig like this personally, but I think having plans available for a DIY sim rig that you can build for a very cost effective price would be brilliant!
Also fantastic video! This is really cool and pretty amazing that you got it to work with the drone, especially as well as it does!
Excellent platform for fixed wing FPV. Love it. 👍😊
I’ve literally been wanting to build this, from an FPV helicopter set up! That is so cool!
The only channel that satisfies my lust for engineering ....... Awesome dude u made my day 🎉🎉🎉
epic vid. your engineering skills are excellent
Michael dude you're stunningly talented man, are you an engineer? Never saw your channel before and this my first video. But I'm in awe dude, your skills and those printers, you pretty much have the world at your fingertips. Could become an expensive hobby. Good idea making it into a channel
This has been on my mind all week. It would be really cool to get able to map switches to the RC channels.
That was so Amazing!👏 I would love to see a build video that lets you fly RC with a PC USB joystick!
Awesome work Michael! I had an idea to do this exact thing but with Binocular VR vision and goggles - just haven't gotten around to building it.
I want to see more of this build in detail. Parts, plans, so others can build and improve upon there own.
Hey Mike, great video. Very cool project. Definitely made the video that much better by having @nurkfpv fly your rig as well. Liked and subbed!
I've actually been interested in trying to build something like this for a couple years now. I would definitely be interested in that video
I have an idea of what you can do next.
1.)hook the chair to the A10 warthog, have that trigger have something to do
2) Make another chair and make it for helicopters (RC and drones )
^
/
3.)Then make an Apache for it and make it shot nerf bullets
then do a showdown
Please do it 🙏
Love the design and the setup.
I've flown flight sim and Real, and I've found in simulation a twist stick can be more comfortable or natural to use for fine yaw control, it's a little closer to the feel you get from a radio controller.
or maybe would absolutely suck for the drone chair, food for thought.
This is the most coolest thing ever
This looks like it would be awesome!
I have read enough comments, that I have to agree that your rig is for an airplane. A drone should be set up as a helicopter control system. I'm a genXer and I have been daydreaming about what you have built here since I was a kid. Your engineering skills are awesome. Now the next step is if it is in your budget. Mount the chair to the hydraulic arm of a bucket truck, as the utility repairmen use on telephone poles. That way you could get some of the g-forces to trick your equilibrium. Lol.
Thanks for all of your hard work!.
the throttle unit you’re using is for planes, you need a collective for drones. your feet pedal position is too low and the feedback loop of the motion is too slow. awesome idea though! if you want help, hit me up :)
bro why sont you uifhhs
Very cool project! I experimented with this kinda thing a while ago too with a motion sim table I had access to at work. It was... challenging... to fly. Playing a bit of VR Star Wars helped a lot for getting the hang of rudder pedals and these controls too... I know how weird that was at first.
A great addition to this would be:
Acceleration Vector
Someone already talked about it down in the section
Adding more resistance and weight to the rudder pedals, joystick, and the accelerator
More vibrations
Add custom belts that tighten on every turn or acceleration to give the feeling of Gs
Since it is a drone it has obviously drone like movements, an rc jet would be more realistic and would add acceleration vector to the movement
And another since it is a drone the rig moves at every single minor turn making it heavier with tighter hydraulics and springs would surely do the job
Please use hall effect sensors in the future, they’re more accurate and last a lot longer. Stick drift happens in controllers because of potentiometers, and for a project this big you’d probably like to have it last a long time.
For drones and helicopters add a collective.
I’d also like to use a more expensive joystick and throttle or you could make the joystick have buttons and hats for simulators like DCS.
Lastly, you want to mimic the forces of the drone/plane. It seems like you are just moving the chair to match what a gyroscope says which is not what you actually feel in a drone or plane. There is a video that explains this well.
I would love to build one of these. I had the idea to use hoverboard motors mounted into 3 rings suspended from the ceiling, like a gyroscope. Then you could harness in and do 360degree in all directions. You could even mount multiple Tv screens like windows and have a different camera for each screen mounted on the plane. So you can look at the left or right screen in the FPV chair cockpit and see out the left or right camera on the plane. Then you would get scenery rushing past your sides and overhead as you flew through it. You could mount them like windows in a cockpit! 🛩🤩
Also it would have been great to see Nuke using the chair with the transmitter to fly the quad with the chair. It would have been great to hear his feedback on that. Awesome work!! Keep it going, I think you do some of the best quality production and presentation videos, and most interesting engineering projects on you tube!!
For drone piloting, I would suggest having 2 joysticks, left joystick controls all your lateral movement (forwards/back, strafe left/right) and making a joystick that twists, using the twist for up and down.
“In part 3 ill add rocket thrusters for an immersive ejection!”
I would love to build something like this
Man, if you used scale RC helicopter and put a Collective control instead of a throttle, this would make an epic FPV scale helicopter set-up.
looking forward for the next video, installing airsoft in drone.
A mistake made by even the big simulator designers is having the simulator replicate the roll and pitch of the airframe. A much more accurate simulation is to replicate the direction of the force vector through the seat in coordination with the slip indicator and the pitch rate. When flying a coordinated turn, the g forces are perpendicular to the main spar. In every consumer level simulator I've tried, the simulator tilted right or left when the virtual aircraft tilted right or left so that, when the force should be perpendicular to the floor of the aircraft. This is so out of synch with what you SHOULD feel that it induces nausea. Pitch of the simulator seat should be used to simulate acceleration or deceleration more than it is used to simulate the pitch angle relative to the ground.
Dude Awsome build. Epic and boy would i love a go !!!!! 🙂
From the perspective of someone who plays ED in VR you should consider a HOSAS setup for more control and a more immersive feel, it would be way more similar to flying a drone with two control sticks.
This guy is a genius.
Imagine doing a backflip with that FPV drone😂.
Nice work btw😊
I would bet that I could fly that so smoothly🙂↕️✋🏽
Should have made a collective for the drone
You need to use a quest so you have a wide screen view that pivots before the camera has time to move and the camera moves the screen to the center of your vision! This way if you quickly look right you see right, then the camera catches up and you get a lot less motion sickness
YES would absolutely build this if shared plans
add a slot in the arms that connect the rudder pedals to the base so that you can move the platform up and down depending on the size of the person using it
Awesome chair.
2:04 damn that got me acting a certain kind of way.
Full aerobatics sim would mean a human gyroscope that goes all the way to inverting you?
Yes, and I've been in one.
for drones i recommend that you make a collective its what helicopters use and is a bit more intuitive.
Have you tried using a wireless trainer connection between the chair and the primary TX? Not sure if it would introduce lag, but it could prevent the problems encountered with cables accidentaly pulling loose.
Great to see you added the pedals back on.
Looking forward to see where you take this next!
yoooo Nurk! great choice of collab!
You need to lean the chair in the opposite directrion of the turn to simulate centrifigual force. You have the chair lean left when making a left turn instead of leaning right. That confuses your brain. In other words, tilt left when making a right turn, and lean forward when flying up.. Easy mod, so give it a try and let use knnow if it works better.
Very Cool, but I think that for a drone, it would make more sense for the controls to be more like a helicopter with a cyclic, and collective
Put a large ventilator in front which increase the rotation by the speed of the plane.
you sir! is a genius. i liked it so much that I wan to build one but i have no idea how to do it XD
Now you should combine this with the A-10 warthog you built
Fantastic vid!
Totally awesome
I would love to see a full motion sim build
Awesome! Awesome! Awesome!
Man like 4 of these things with planes and some sort of BB gun on em would be insaneeee
Need more easy FPV fixed wing build tutorials
all the toys and the brains to use em!
Military drone pilots must be climbing the walls with excitement for this lol
This will be good with vr and cockpit only passthrough
Now you have to make the chair fully articulating. But more than that try to follow the motion better.
I'd love something like this
haha i need this! imagine playing arcade w this setup XD
These drones have more in common with a helo. I think a cyclic stick and collective would have felt more natural. Not to mention that the Warthog throttle has a slew upgrade grade that would give you some more analog controls.
with FPV drone you become the drone, but with the simulator you become one with the drone
i wonder iF drone flight would be better with a collector than a throttle
I'd get a patent quickly if I were you I'd be selling these. If the money were available, I'd pay a few grand for one of these. Your ideas are brilliant. Can you adjust the reats on the Tx to smooth things out?
I think you need to have a chain drive. Like front and back left and right back corner to front corner back corner to front corner. I think that would make for fully immersive and allow you to hit y'all as well
Interested most Def!!
Next step = DCS motion rig with VR googles?
i'm sure the DCS peeps would totally want this
You need to try DCS with this and a VR head set
Great video bro.
Please make it simple & plans so that everyone can have one. I have a x1 carbon, that should print some of the parts. Thanks for video.
That is so cool!
There are far more comprehensive combat flight sims out there than War Thunder
fr this would be awesome in something like dcs
Very very nice❤❤❤