Chris I appreciate your technical approach to this video . I was thinking today when are you going to put up your sequel to the original video. Thank you for your content and your dedication to the game!
Great summation. The DeGrom case will be a fascinating one to watch. I know he’s not on your list, but it will be interesting to see where he stands if he can finish out that contract.
Machado is having an AWESOME 2024! He is notorious for being better at the second half of the season. He has 25 HR, 90 RBIs, 9 SB and batting .275. He is the 26th best player overall in my 9 category fantasy league.
Very happy to see the follow up to the previous video! I hope it can become an annual topic. I appreciate the details and how long it must take to put together. Thanks Chris!
I mean, if you go back and look historically at MVPs, WAR is fairly accurate as a predictor. And it wasn't even a thing then. It just ends up that the player who wins MVP is usually the leader in WAR. With some exceptions being Ted Williams losing because the media hated him or Babe Ruth playing much of his career in an era where, incredibly stupidly, you weren't eligible for the award if you had already won it before. And times where one player got the edge because their team finished as the pennant winner. If you look at position players on the all time WAR list, that would be most peoples all time rankings of players if they did the research and fairly and without bias judged them all. Defensive WAR is a joke that makes no sense. But for hitting, it really is a very good statistic, if imperfect. It is the best statistic we have to most accurately determine players value toward winning baseball games.
You forgot my man deGrom! (to be fair, nothing changed since last year). My hope is he can have a Chris Sale bounce back and pitch until he's 40. WIth a second rebuilt elbow, he could add 10-15 WAR over 5 years and I think maybe put himself back in the hunt.
One of the more fascinating cases will be Jacob DeGrom. We all know about the injuries, but when he is healthy, he is among the greatest of all time- and I don't use that term lightly. If he can stay healthy for even 2 more full seasons and get to 2000 Ks while maintaining a WHIP of < 1, ERA of 2.5? Or if he picks up a third Cy Young? It would be hard to keep him out I think.
Great assessment. If Scott Rolan is a HOF'er - no way Nolan Arenado doesn't make it unless he falls of a cliff (better than probable) chance). Also - I think Other than that, A+ analysis .
Sale even has a chance at a rare MLB triple crown. HOF talk is always an interesting topic! Soto is a phenomenal batter/hitter. Thanks for the video, Chris!
fantastic video as always Chris, - if you are up to you.. how about a cheeky little players under 30 WAR that you are making a bold call on, then revisit that video in 5 years time :) I know you don't do prospecting, but I also know you own a time machine, which may or may not be a Delorean-esque used Toyota Camry.
Only 23.5 WAR. He might have been over 30 WAR by now if he could just stay healthy. Hasn't played more than 144 games in a season and missed pretty much all of 2020 (granted that was the shorter pandemic season anyway). His lifetime -4.2 dWAR also hurts him a bit. Love watching the guy hit, though.
Really enjoyed the video. I could nitpick and say maybe Wheeler has a chance if he can continue where he's at for about 3 more seasons and then hangs on to pad his career stats into his 40s. Given the team he plays on, a shot a huge World Series performance certainly has a better then zero chance. His career post season numbers are excellent. Ohtani I think is a lock assuming he gets to his 10th year of eligibility. Given the unique nature of what he does and how ridiculous some of his seasons are, I think he gets the same kind of bump that you gave Judge. He's so good and such an anomaly that I can't see the voters keeping him out.
Chris, really enjoyed the follow up. Would a veterans committee hopefuls video be possible? I realize that’s a hard thing to predict. My mind always goes to Kenny lofton and Lou Whitaker and what’s the committee doing if they aren’t looking at them.
Yo, I was just think about the video you did like this before and was going to email you and request you did another one. WOW, here it is. Nice job !!! Also, I the the adventures as well.
hey chris, nice update. I was just going to say in regards to Machado, I think most people following baseball would assess him as the same a arenado. They're stat lines are almost identical besides the awards which should come under scrutiny. I would give Machado the bump over Arenado for the simple fact that Manny achieved his stats outside of coors field..both will get in but I just see Machado's accomplishment in a different scale than Arenado.
Things change!! 40 years ago if I said I had a catcher with 9 all-stars hit over 40 home run in a season a career with over 270 home runs a world series MVP 5 Gold Gloves. But now I have to say Salvador Perez has a slight chance.
Tangential comment: I wish discussions about "greatness" and hall-of-fame were less about longevity and more about how good someone was at their peak. Just my personal preference
Agree. How about this nightmare scenario…….. Harold Bains is in, Yelech is being considered, and Dale Murphy doesn’t have a chance unless the veterans committee votes him in. That’s a crime in my opinion.
Curious to see your thoughts on guys like Zack Greinke and Jacob DeGrom. Also key to getting into the hall of fame for pitchers is 3k strikeouts. Verlander and Scherzer are in by that measure. Greinke a little short but probably still in. DeGrom an interesting case… as always great video!
Greinke will be in based on his body of work. 225 wins, 6x gold gloves, 2x silver slugger, cy young winner, career whip of 1.17 which is very good. His war is 77.5. Anyone who has a war of 70 or above is pretty much a lock. You cant use strikeouts as the only criteria.
Good stuff! Correia is the poster boy for how WAR overestimates SS. Dude isn't even close to passing the eye test for me. Wheeler is a sneaky one. Late bloomer. Big if, but if he stays healthy and gives us 5 more years of this... could end up as a 50/50 guy. I have Arenado already in. If a guy like Rolen is in, then it's no doubt with Arenado.
Unless people ignore reality, he's already done enough to be HOF, as long as he plays the minimum ten seasons. Top 11 all time in Slugging and OPS and adjusted OPS+. Fastest ever to 300 HR by games and ABs. 2nd all time in AB/HR (1st if you exclude McGwire who cheated his entire career) 2 seasons that statistically are in the top 25 offensive seasons all time, with one potentially being top 10. Holds a significant record in the AL, and most HOF voters would consider him the single season HR king because the guys ahead of him all cheated. Well liked and respected by the media and his peers. So odds are he gets voted in by the writers, and if not, his peers absolutely put him in via committee. Has a legit claim to being the best player in baseball over the course of his career from 2017-2024. Has a higher than HOF RF Avg 7 year peak WAR, and that's including the shortened 2020 season where he played like 30 games. After this year will have 2 MVPs plus the ROY. 2nd highest WAR/162 among right fielders. Behind just Babe Ruth. This year he had the greatest 25, 50, 75 and 100 game stretches any right handed hitter ever had. But that's kind of moot anyway because he almost certainly gets to 500. I think it is safe to assume that, barring another freak injury, he can average 40 homers a year for the next 3-4 years. At which point he would be like 30-50 shy of 500 with about 3 years on his contract left. And assuming 40 a year is being conservative. He probably hits another 50 in 2025 and 2026.
@@tdsportscards Soto only has 5 full seasons of play though. Judge also has only had 4 years where he has played more than 120 games in a season. If this was based on WAR, degrom is at 45
Great video Chris, and great baseball HOF predictions. In addition to, which players will have the hall of fame call, and that's predicting, what players will still be collectible long after their careers are over. For that, my best educated guess would be, Ohtani, Judge, Trout, Bryce Harper and Mookie Betts.
Great majority i wouldn't even comsider! Marte, Nola, Perez???Like, whats that?! Kershaw,Scherzer,Verlander, YES. To me, talk when you played 10 seasons. One person forgotten & relief pitcher is Kenley Jansen. Very consistent & has the #'s. Look at HOF reliever stats.
Rameriez is a lock he should already have 3 mvp awards but no the writers get it wrong all the time. He is about to go 40/40 in the next few weeks just another historical accomplishment for him.
He's a great player, and probably deserves HOF, but he's never deserved an MVP for any season. He leads the league in nothing really. 2 times in doubles and once in runs (but during the 2020 season which nobody really counts anyway) for his entire career. In the black ink HOF test, where a score of 27 is average for a HOF player, he has a 7. That's 401st all time. To be MVP without leading in any stats makes no sense.
@@snerdtergusonyou couldn’t be more wrong if you tried he was hands down the best player in 2016 led the Indians to the World Series that year something Trout and Judge will never do. He was the MVP in 2017 that cheater Altuve got the award while being wired up and once again he led Cleveland to the best record in the American League. (Not to mention 22 straight wins something that has never happened in our lifetimes) I’m sure that doesn’t mean anything to you though. In 2020 he had a better year than Abreau and in 2022 he was more valuable to Cleveland than Judge was to the Yankees he played the last half of the season with a broken finger that required surgery and had no protection in the lineup as compared to Judge who had a ton of it. Yet Rameriez was right on his ass in RBIs and was intentional walked more than Judge meaning teams feared pitching to Rameriez more that season even though Judge set the AL Homerun mark. Also don’t forget Rameriez is a better defender at a much harder position to play than Judge. Just stating the facts.
Love these videos, wanted to tell Nolan Arenado is a lock only one other player has done things like him, with more home runs is the only difference its Mike Schmidt.
Historical numbers for pitchers can't be used in modern times. Salvy has been so good for so long. He's a HOFer. And, for Ohtani, you have to consider pitching numbers, too.
Know most people hate Machado and say he’s a dirty player (though old-time players like Ty Cobb were reportedly worse yet are celebrated for being hard-nosed) but he’s the only current player with even a slight chance at 3000 hits and 500 HRs. Add in being a great defender and think he’ll be a first balloter assuming he ages reasonably well.
So here is where I find difficulty with "just" the use of WAR. Salvy is 100% in, imho, and his WAR by comparison is a crap festival. Catcher is just a completely different animal than any other position. He'll end up with (approximately): 350 💣 2000 hits 1200 RBI BA .260-270
As someone who doesn’t get to many shows could you do another video on your opinion on strength of current card market. Half the videos on RUclips say it’s dead others say it’s great.
Great list Chris! What do you think about closers making it into the HOF? Craig Kimbrel and Kenley Jansen seem to be making a case for themselves, do you think they are future HOFers?
Great video Chris. Just surprised you didn’t talk about the most intriguing & confusing Hall of Fame discussion & that’s Jacob Degrom. He was the best pitcher in baseball for 5 seasons but only has 84 wins and a 45 war being very injury prone the last 3-4 years.
I think the sign-stealing scandal will be a huge hurdle, much like the PED scandal, so I'm not sure even Altuve gets in for a long time. I am more bullish on Sale, he should easily go over 60 WAR (50-50) and isn't a 60 WAR player who lost 4 prime years due to injury a way more sympathetic than a 60 WAR player who played during those years? deGromm seems like another sympathetic case.
Altuve is a gigalock. Freeman also. And something to watch for re: Lindor - he will likely have the record for homers as a shortstop. Jose Ramirez has been top 10 MVP voting 6 times, and likely another this year. He is much better than 50/50.
Goldschmidt has had a very solid career, but you know who has very similar stats (around .290 350hr, 1200runs, 1200rbi, 150 SB, 400 2B)? Ellis Burks. Less hardware, and a different position, but Burks was off the ballot in one year, and nobody ever seriously argued he was a Hall of Famer. Emphasis on WAR for current players seems to be dramatically skewing fans' perception of Hall standards. If guys with fewer than 2000 hits and 300 homeruns are now serious contenders for the HOF, then the veterans committee has a lot of work to do, as there are a couple dozen guys who should cut the line.
A lot more ‘Hall of Very Good’ players could start to clog up the Veterans Committees as the years go on and more great players go through all 10 years of eligibility but don’t get that 75% threshold. And then IF…. Years from now, they open the gate for PED-era players, then there’s more names to clog it up.
Problem is Burks played during steroid era. Even if he didn't use his war is condensed bc everyone else's stats were higher. Plus I don't think Burks has any top 3 mvp finishes and that means something
@@davidlapointe7446 All valid points - though Burks was just a point of reference because when I saw Goldschmidt's stats, I immediately recognized their similarity to Burks, specifically - but I could have cited numerous others from both the steroid era and even earlier (Dave Parker, Dwight Evans, Dale Murphy, etc). Just seems a lot of these modern players, including most on this list would have been cited as very good but not hall-worthy two or three decades ago, but now WAR, specifically, has muddied the waters.
The HOF needs to adopt the Bill Simmons "Pyramid" idea. Multiple levels of the HOF, with the top level being the consensus top 10 in history. That way there could be a spot in the lower tier for guys who maybe fell a bit short and into the Hall of Very Good. The list is long. Players who were pivotal factors in dynasties, like Dave Concepcion, Bernie Williams, Paul O'Neill. Players who had pivotal moments on championship teams, like Kirk Gibson, Joe Carter. Players who shone briefly but had their career derailed by injuries like Don Mattingly (though I say he should just straight up be in the HOF). MIDDLE RELIEVERS!!!! We need a place to honor the guys who built the bridge. The outs gotten in the 7th-8th are no less important than the outs from 1st-6th and the 9th. But not a single guy that was a career middle reliever is enshrined. They at least deserve a place in the lower level. I'm a Yankee fan, so my knowledge of middle relief is mostly of their rosters, so forgive me for only naming Yankees here. Jeff Nelson, Mike Stanton, Ramiro Mendoza. The Yankees dynasty is not the Yankees dynasty without their efforts out of the bullpen, either in middle relief, long relief or as the setup to Mariano Rivera. They aren't HOF, I'm not suggesting that. Just suggesting that they were vital members of multiple championship teams who played at a very high level in their roles. W need more coaches, managers and executives being honored. He may not have the record other guys do, but if you're building an all 70s team, Billy Martin would be many peoples choice to manage it. Don Zimmer spent a lifetime in the game as a player, manager, coach and special assistant. This should be something, single I'm a Yankee fan... Theo Epstein... How is he not in? The architects of so many great teams have not been inducted. Gene Michael built the Yankees dynasty (with Cashman as AGM and then GM) and isn't in the HOF. That makes no sense to me. Drafted Jeter, scouted and brought through the system Mariano Rivera. Signed Bernie Williams as a 16 year old kid. We just need a place to honor the guys the Hall has left behind for one reason or another.
I haven’t really followed baseball for years but I think that Trout is fascinating. If you go by WAR he’s a lock. If you look at traditional stats, it looks like he’s going to fall short of the 3000/500 thresholds. No those numbers aren’t required but if he continues to get injured he’s going to fall well short.
You left off DeGrom who hasn't pitched yet this year but he probably belongs in the 50/50 cat although he's totally a HoFer in my book! Also, I think Wheeler has a chance if he keeps pitching like this for 5 more years (big ask) but his career numbers will look legit. I'd move Cole, Sale, Seager & Ramirez up to probably and move Xander down to has a chance. Those are guys I definitely believe in vs. Xander, who I don't really believe in.
Is Chris Sale not comparable to Kirby Pucket's case? Both lost prime years due to injury. Pucket had 7 top 7 MVP finishes and a 51.1 career WAR. Sale has 8 Top 6 Cy Young finishes and will easily have over 60 WAR. Pucket had 10 all-star appearances and two World Series. Sale had 8 all-star appearances and one World Series. Is Pucket's case more sympathetic because he got glaucoma versus Sale's various injuries?
If instead of being consecutive, the 7 year peak WAR was based on your actual best 7 seasons, Judges peak war is near the best ever for any position. His peak is dragged down by his 1.1 in the shortened 2020 season. 10th all time in Slugging, 11th in OPS, 2nd in AB/HR, 2nd in RF WAR/162. Possibly the best rookie season as a batter ever. Two seasons that are top 25 all time. Significant AL record holder. ROY, and soon to be two time MVP with his rookie year having been robbed by a player who benefited from cheating. (Though Judge was better anyway. Altuve only led in steals and average. Judge was so much better that year than Altuve was and should be headed toward his 3rd MVP) One factor I think helps him a lot with his MVP seasons (assuming he wins this year) is level of difficulty. 22 he topped a historically great season from Ohtani and this year he will have beaten Bobby Witt Jr and his likely 10+ WAR (best season in his franchises history and up there with the best shortstop seasons ever) Also, Judge is incredibly well liked and respected by the writers, so they almost certainly elect him. If not, is there any chance his peers don't put him in via committee? Players know when a guy is the guy. And Judge is most definitely the guy.
I wonder if Nola would be a longshot if he reached 3000 strikeouts. Only Clemens and Schilling are in that club and probably won’t be HOFers. Only other people not in are probables, CC, Scherzer and soon to be Kershaw. He’d only have to average 150 for the next 8 years to do it. His game figures to age fairly well as he’s never had overwhelming power. Just a nasty curve.
@@collectorinvestordealer I asked you that after your first video. The Nationale pulled him from rotation his rookie year in the playoffs because they didn't want to injure or burn his arm up. They were expected to atleast represent the National League in the World Series 🌎.
Where’s degrom? He has 45 WAR although hasn’t played yet this season. Also, I think Zack Wheeler should at least be in the same category as Nola. He’s arguably been the best pitcher of the 2020’s and if he continues to have strong seasons, I feel like he could have a “long shot” chance at making it. Especially if standards for HOF pitchers loosens up after the big 3 get in.
A lot of people forget that the 'gold standard' of 3,000/500 is a lot harder now for those who started playing MLB prior to 2020. Everyone in the entire MLB missed 100 games in 2020. (and some opted out of the season completely) People keep forgetting this long-lost fact already. We've probably already seen the last 300 win pitcher because starting pitchers don't pitch as many innings as 10 years ago even.
100 games isn’t that much. Id say just a little harder. There were some strike shortened seasons before and some players missed years in the military etc.
Well yeah, and those players missed out on some significant stats. Ted Williams didn't get to 3,000 hits, and but for his service, probably gets to over 3,500. He had 500+ HR, but would have had over 600. If you want a great example of a player punished because they didn't play as many games as others, try Thurman Munson. You can look up the numbers. During the decade he played at the same time as Johnny Bench, Thurman Munson had the better offensive numbers, was the better defender, and the better postseason performer. He played the requisite 10 seasons, but when people argue he isn't a HOF worthy player, they point to his not having the counting stats. The man died. He died, after playing the required seasons for eligibility, and is punished for it and for not getting to the numbers it takes 15+ full seasons to attain. Fred McGriff was kept out of the Hall.for years because he was 7 shy of the arbitrary number people decided was automatic entry (barring cheaters in some cases). He missed games as a result of the 94-95 player strike. He 100% would have had an additional 15+ HRs if not for the strike, and would probably have been a first ballot inductee. He missed roughly 100 games. So Yeah, 100 games IS that much. Give Aaron Judge 100 games and he adds another 30-40 HRs to his career total. 100 games in a season is 20 starts for a starting pitcher and possibly 150-200 strikeouts. It might be 30+ saves for a closer. These are numbers that aren't insignificant to a players HOF candidacy. Particularly since so many people have an antiquated notion of the numbers that make you a lock.
I just hate Manny Machado for the ruthless way he ended Dustin Pedroia's career. But, yeah, he's certainly in the HoF conversation. Pedroia should've been, too.
Pedroias over it. You should be too. Manny is getting in easy weather you like it not. Everyone's knocking his '24 season, why?? The dudes got 25 HR and 90 RBI and batting .275 coming off surgery and playing lights out D. I don't get it?
@@danbradley3294 the beauty of being a fan is that you never have to get over something. I mean, are the Raiders fans over the tuck rule? Is Bucky Dent's unofficial middle name still "Effing" (or less pleasant variations)? Don't Titans fans wish the field was one yard shorter? "Hating" makes rivalries, and rivalries make sports awesome.
@garygordon3075 I know sadly that's the case... would be interesting if he came back strong and won 1 more Cy Young award, then he'd be in that category which all are in. That's why I think he should at least get a mention
Would have liked to see the pitching numbers for Ohtani shown. None of these batters have 39 wins as a pitcher. If he gets to 100 wins with 400 homeruns and 3+ mvps he is in.
Chris I appreciate your technical approach to this video . I was thinking today when are you going to put up your sequel to the original video. Thank you for your content and your dedication to the game!
As someone who collects signed HOF rookie cards, I really enjoyed this video
Great summation. The DeGrom case will be a fascinating one to watch. I know he’s not on your list, but it will be interesting to see where he stands if he can finish out that contract.
Machado is having an AWESOME 2024! He is notorious for being better at the second half of the season. He has 25 HR, 90 RBIs, 9 SB and batting .275. He is the 26th best player overall in my 9 category fantasy league.
Yep. He is HoF bound for sure.
I look at the pitchers' career WHIP. Kershaw and Cole are elite
Ya, with the lower WAR I look into Whip a lot
Very happy to see the follow up to the previous video! I hope it can become an annual topic. I appreciate the details and how long it must take to put together. Thanks Chris!
I'm not a WAR guy, but thanks for another great video, Chris!
I mean, if you go back and look historically at MVPs, WAR is fairly accurate as a predictor. And it wasn't even a thing then. It just ends up that the player who wins MVP is usually the leader in WAR. With some exceptions being Ted Williams losing because the media hated him or Babe Ruth playing much of his career in an era where, incredibly stupidly, you weren't eligible for the award if you had already won it before. And times where one player got the edge because their team finished as the pennant winner. If you look at position players on the all time WAR list, that would be most peoples all time rankings of players if they did the research and fairly and without bias judged them all.
Defensive WAR is a joke that makes no sense. But for hitting, it really is a very good statistic, if imperfect. It is the best statistic we have to most accurately determine players value toward winning baseball games.
Same here, not a WAR guy.
agreed, I'm more of a peace guy
You forgot my man deGrom! (to be fair, nothing changed since last year). My hope is he can have a Chris Sale bounce back and pitch until he's 40. WIth a second rebuilt elbow, he could add 10-15 WAR over 5 years and I think maybe put himself back in the hunt.
Yup
Great take....this is where I have them also
One of the more fascinating cases will be Jacob DeGrom. We all know about the injuries, but when he is healthy, he is among the greatest of all time- and I don't use that term lightly. If he can stay healthy for even 2 more full seasons and get to 2000 Ks while maintaining a WHIP of < 1, ERA of 2.5? Or if he picks up a third Cy Young? It would be hard to keep him out I think.
I would consider Juan Soto almost a lock for the HOF at this point.
Great assessment. If Scott Rolan is a HOF'er - no way Nolan Arenado doesn't make it unless he falls of a cliff (better than probable) chance). Also - I think Other than that, A+ analysis .
I think you should have included Greinke as he's not officially retired.
Sale even has a chance at a rare MLB triple crown. HOF talk is always an interesting topic! Soto is a phenomenal batter/hitter. Thanks for the video, Chris!
I respect your analysis, Chris. Thanks for the effort you put into these type of videos.
I think Mookie Betts is definitely a HOR'er! Great vudeo
I think he'll eventually surpass Trout in WAR
fantastic video as always Chris, - if you are up to you.. how about a cheeky little players under 30 WAR that you are making a bold call on, then revisit that video in 5 years time :) I know you don't do prospecting, but I also know you own a time machine, which may or may not be a Delorean-esque used Toyota Camry.
Haha love it :). That is an interesting idea for a video, I might consider that…
I would definitely watch that video.
Me too
I'm from Toronto, so I'll contribute Vladimir Guerrero Jr.
I just went back to make sure I was still subscribed. Hadn’t seen a video and I was worried. Love the content
Just took a few weeks off.
Good video Chris always interesting to see the stats. I'm surprised Yordan Alvarez isn't on the list
Only 23.5 WAR. He might have been over 30 WAR by now if he could just stay healthy. Hasn't played more than 144 games in a season and missed pretty much all of 2020 (granted that was the shorter pandemic season anyway). His lifetime -4.2 dWAR also hurts him a bit. Love watching the guy hit, though.
I agree with all your selections. Even though I think it's much easier making the hall then it used to back in the day.
Really enjoyed the video. I could nitpick and say maybe Wheeler has a chance if he can continue where he's at for about 3 more seasons and then hangs on to pad his career stats into his 40s. Given the team he plays on, a shot a huge World Series performance certainly has a better then zero chance. His career post season numbers are excellent.
Ohtani I think is a lock assuming he gets to his 10th year of eligibility. Given the unique nature of what he does and how ridiculous some of his seasons are, I think he gets the same kind of bump that you gave Judge. He's so good and such an anomaly that I can't see the voters keeping him out.
You're right about trout. He's definitely in imho
He shouldn’t
Trout is in 4 sure
Chris, really enjoyed the follow up.
Would a veterans committee hopefuls video be possible? I realize that’s a hard thing to predict. My mind always goes to Kenny lofton and Lou Whitaker and what’s the committee doing if they aren’t looking at them.
Yo, I was just think about the video you did like this before and was going to email you and request you did another one. WOW, here it is. Nice job !!! Also, I the the adventures as well.
Nice video!! I would like to see another one with retired players and their chances...
hey chris, nice update. I was just going to say in regards to Machado, I think most people following baseball would assess him as the same a arenado. They're stat lines are almost identical besides the awards which should come under scrutiny. I would give Machado the bump over Arenado for the simple fact that Manny achieved his stats outside of coors field..both will get in but I just see Machado's accomplishment in a different scale than Arenado.
Things change!! 40 years ago if I said I had a catcher with 9 all-stars hit over 40 home run in a season a career with over 270 home runs a world series MVP 5 Gold Gloves. But now I have to say Salvador Perez has a slight chance.
I enjoyed rhis Nd very happy you had Jose Ramirez in there😉
Really great video again Chris! I remember the video from last year I think Jose Ramirez is on target even more especially with this year...
Perez has a lot of accolades I'm rooting for him!
If the Royals win another WS with him on the roster I think he is going in because all the writers love the guy.
I think him and buster posey last 15 years are in
Tangential comment: I wish discussions about "greatness" and hall-of-fame were less about longevity and more about how good someone was at their peak. Just my personal preference
Agree. How about this nightmare scenario…….. Harold Bains is in, Yelech is being considered, and Dale Murphy doesn’t have a chance unless the veterans committee votes him in. That’s a crime in my opinion.
Curious to see your thoughts on guys like Zack Greinke and Jacob DeGrom. Also key to getting into the hall of fame for pitchers is 3k strikeouts. Verlander and Scherzer are in by that measure. Greinke a little short but probably still in. DeGrom an interesting case… as always great video!
Greinke will be in based on his body of work. 225 wins, 6x gold gloves, 2x silver slugger, cy young winner, career whip of 1.17 which is very good. His war is 77.5. Anyone who has a war of 70 or above is pretty much a lock. You cant use strikeouts as the only criteria.
DeGrom is basically Johan Santana. Grienke will eventually make the HOF.
I think Grienke is a definite. DeGrom I dont think so at this point.
I agree
Good stuff! Correia is the poster boy for how WAR overestimates SS. Dude isn't even close to passing the eye test for me. Wheeler is a sneaky one. Late bloomer. Big if, but if he stays healthy and gives us 5 more years of this... could end up as a 50/50 guy. I have Arenado already in. If a guy like Rolen is in, then it's no doubt with Arenado.
It's ashame Judge made his debut so late at 25, he'd be knocking at almost 500 HRs already.
He might get to 500 eventually but it'll be tough.
Unless people ignore reality, he's already done enough to be HOF, as long as he plays the minimum ten seasons.
Top 11 all time in Slugging and OPS and adjusted OPS+.
Fastest ever to 300 HR by games and ABs.
2nd all time in AB/HR (1st if you exclude McGwire who cheated his entire career)
2 seasons that statistically are in the top 25 offensive seasons all time, with one potentially being top 10.
Holds a significant record in the AL, and most HOF voters would consider him the single season HR king because the guys ahead of him all cheated.
Well liked and respected by the media and his peers. So odds are he gets voted in by the writers, and if not, his peers absolutely put him in via committee.
Has a legit claim to being the best player in baseball over the course of his career from 2017-2024.
Has a higher than HOF RF Avg 7 year peak WAR, and that's including the shortened 2020 season where he played like 30 games.
After this year will have 2 MVPs plus the ROY.
2nd highest WAR/162 among right fielders. Behind just Babe Ruth.
This year he had the greatest 25, 50, 75 and 100 game stretches any right handed hitter ever had.
But that's kind of moot anyway because he almost certainly gets to 500. I think it is safe to assume that, barring another freak injury, he can average 40 homers a year for the next 3-4 years. At which point he would be like 30-50 shy of 500 with about 3 years on his contract left. And assuming 40 a year is being conservative. He probably hits another 50 in 2025 and 2026.
Judge is a mortal lock.
Definitely makes a great case for Judge.
Great video! Hoping to see Zack greinke get in
It's fun to hear Shohei and Trout in the same sentence as 'kinda sorta' and 'somewhat adequate' 😁
Surprised you didn't have degrom in the conversation. He's an interesting case
He needs another 2 years of greatness...he has 5...this is where the 7 year comparison comes in
@@tdsportscards Soto only has 5 full seasons of play though. Judge also has only had 4 years where he has played more than 120 games in a season. If this was based on WAR, degrom is at 45
Degrom max shcerzer Verlander
Always great entertaining videos.
I'm excited to see how Matt Chapman reacts to his new 6 year contract and what that does for his confidence, knowing he has a home.
2nd half Seager and judge will be locks eventually. Seager maybe a top 3 player in entire game last 5 years. Regardless of stats. Monster in october
Can you do GameStop comp vs eBay pricing for selling your slabs in your next video. GameStop have real time pricing now online by card ladders.
Great video Chris, and great baseball HOF predictions. In addition to, which players will have the hall of fame call, and that's predicting, what players will still be collectible long after their careers are over. For that, my best educated guess would be, Ohtani, Judge, Trout, Bryce Harper and Mookie Betts.
Thats an important question as well, good picks.
@@collectorinvestordealer Thanks :]
Great majority i wouldn't even comsider! Marte, Nola, Perez???Like, whats that?! Kershaw,Scherzer,Verlander, YES. To me, talk when you played 10 seasons. One person forgotten & relief pitcher is Kenley Jansen. Very consistent & has the #'s. Look at HOF reliever stats.
Rameriez is a lock he should already have 3 mvp awards but no the writers get it wrong all the time. He is about to go 40/40 in the next few weeks just another historical accomplishment for him.
He just needs a decent back half of a career. 2-3 WAR a season would do it, but I think he can beat that.
He's a great player, and probably deserves HOF, but he's never deserved an MVP for any season. He leads the league in nothing really. 2 times in doubles and once in runs (but during the 2020 season which nobody really counts anyway) for his entire career. In the black ink HOF test, where a score of 27 is average for a HOF player, he has a 7. That's 401st all time. To be MVP without leading in any stats makes no sense.
@@snerdtergusonyou couldn’t be more wrong if you tried he was hands down the best player in 2016 led the Indians to the World Series that year something Trout and Judge will never do. He was the MVP in 2017 that cheater Altuve got the award while being wired up and once again he led Cleveland to the best record in the American League. (Not to mention 22 straight wins something that has never happened in our lifetimes) I’m sure that doesn’t mean anything to you though. In 2020 he had a better year than Abreau and in 2022 he was more valuable to Cleveland than Judge was to the Yankees he played the last half of the season with a broken finger that required surgery and had no protection in the lineup as compared to Judge who had a ton of it. Yet Rameriez was right on his ass in RBIs and was intentional walked more than Judge meaning teams feared pitching to Rameriez more that season even though Judge set the AL Homerun mark. Also don’t forget Rameriez is a better defender at a much harder position to play than Judge. Just stating the facts.
I think that Salvador Perez will be in with a few more good seasons
As great as he’s been imagine Mike Trout’s standing if he’d had more than one lacklustre postseason appearance. Such a shame.
Love these videos, wanted to tell Nolan Arenado is a lock only one other player has done things like him, with more home runs is the only difference its Mike Schmidt.
Historical numbers for pitchers can't be used in modern times. Salvy has been so good for so long. He's a HOFer. And, for Ohtani, you have to consider pitching numbers, too.
love your content, your the best card content creator out there Chris!! Could u do another ComC vid soon? Keep up the great work 👍
McCutchen has a 2005 Topps Update too
Know most people hate Machado and say he’s a dirty player (though old-time players like Ty Cobb were reportedly worse yet are celebrated for being hard-nosed) but he’s the only current player with even a slight chance at 3000 hits and 500 HRs. Add in being a great defender and think he’ll be a first balloter assuming he ages reasonably well.
I can tell how long ago Chris took those stat pics from Baseball Reference by looking at Ohtani's HR/SB numbers. 😁
Great show very informative!!
Great video! Please make this an annual thing. What about Grienke? He's a lock at 77 WAR and one Cy Young given he's a pitcher?
I agree, Grienke is essentially a lock.
So here is where I find difficulty with "just" the use of WAR. Salvy is 100% in, imho, and his WAR by comparison is a crap festival. Catcher is just a completely different animal than any other position. He'll end up with (approximately):
350 💣
2000 hits
1200 RBI
BA .260-270
He has a chance. It's just been difficult for catchers to make the HOF. Thurman Munson should be in the HOF imo.
True, WAR is less relevant for catchers.
As someone who doesn’t get to many shows could you do another video on your opinion on strength of current card market. Half the videos on RUclips say it’s dead others say it’s great.
Those that say it's dead are just doing so for views. Eventually, the hobby will have a major cooling off period. But we are not there yet.
The market is always moving.
But dont buy nobody's
Great list Chris! What do you think about closers making it into the HOF? Craig Kimbrel and Kenley Jansen seem to be making a case for themselves, do you think they are future HOFers?
Good question, I would have to look into that more to form an opinion…
Craig Kimbrel will make the baseball HOF, BUT it, will likely take a long time. He had a similar career to Billy Wagner.
Great video Chris. Just surprised you didn’t talk about the most intriguing & confusing Hall of Fame discussion & that’s Jacob Degrom. He was the best pitcher in baseball for 5 seasons but only has 84 wins and a 45 war being very injury prone the last 3-4 years.
I think the sign-stealing scandal will be a huge hurdle, much like the PED scandal, so I'm not sure even Altuve gets in for a long time. I am more bullish on Sale, he should easily go over 60 WAR (50-50) and isn't a 60 WAR player who lost 4 prime years due to injury a way more sympathetic than a 60 WAR player who played during those years? deGromm seems like another sympathetic case.
LoL Soto looks 50 on that Gallery rookie card no mercy from that artist
I assume the WAR isn't there but I would bank on Kenley Jansen and Craig Kimbrel getting in. Along with deGrom who is already mentioned.
Altuve is a gigalock. Freeman also. And something to watch for re: Lindor - he will likely have the record for homers as a shortstop. Jose Ramirez has been top 10 MVP voting 6 times, and likely another this year. He is much better than 50/50.
Goldschmidt has had a very solid career, but you know who has very similar stats (around .290 350hr, 1200runs, 1200rbi, 150 SB, 400 2B)? Ellis Burks. Less hardware, and a different position, but Burks was off the ballot in one year, and nobody ever seriously argued he was a Hall of Famer. Emphasis on WAR for current players seems to be dramatically skewing fans' perception of Hall standards. If guys with fewer than 2000 hits and 300 homeruns are now serious contenders for the HOF, then the veterans committee has a lot of work to do, as there are a couple dozen guys who should cut the line.
A lot more ‘Hall of Very Good’ players could start to clog up the Veterans Committees as the years go on and more great players go through all 10 years of eligibility but don’t get that 75% threshold. And then IF…. Years from now, they open the gate for PED-era players, then there’s more names to clog it up.
Problem is Burks played during steroid era. Even if he didn't use his war is condensed bc everyone else's stats were higher. Plus I don't think Burks has any top 3 mvp finishes and that means something
@@davidlapointe7446 All valid points - though Burks was just a point of reference because when I saw Goldschmidt's stats, I immediately recognized their similarity to Burks, specifically - but I could have cited numerous others from both the steroid era and even earlier (Dave Parker, Dwight Evans, Dale Murphy, etc). Just seems a lot of these modern players, including most on this list would have been cited as very good but not hall-worthy two or three decades ago, but now WAR, specifically, has muddied the waters.
WAR is stupid and people stupid to quote an 80s song. I never knew Boy George knew baseball
The HOF needs to adopt the Bill Simmons "Pyramid" idea. Multiple levels of the HOF, with the top level being the consensus top 10 in history. That way there could be a spot in the lower tier for guys who maybe fell a bit short and into the Hall of Very Good. The list is long. Players who were pivotal factors in dynasties, like Dave Concepcion, Bernie Williams, Paul O'Neill. Players who had pivotal moments on championship teams, like Kirk Gibson, Joe Carter. Players who shone briefly but had their career derailed by injuries like Don Mattingly (though I say he should just straight up be in the HOF).
MIDDLE RELIEVERS!!!! We need a place to honor the guys who built the bridge. The outs gotten in the 7th-8th are no less important than the outs from 1st-6th and the 9th. But not a single guy that was a career middle reliever is enshrined. They at least deserve a place in the lower level. I'm a Yankee fan, so my knowledge of middle relief is mostly of their rosters, so forgive me for only naming Yankees here. Jeff Nelson, Mike Stanton, Ramiro Mendoza. The Yankees dynasty is not the Yankees dynasty without their efforts out of the bullpen, either in middle relief, long relief or as the setup to Mariano Rivera. They aren't HOF, I'm not suggesting that. Just suggesting that they were vital members of multiple championship teams who played at a very high level in their roles.
W need more coaches, managers and executives being honored. He may not have the record other guys do, but if you're building an all 70s team, Billy Martin would be many peoples choice to manage it. Don Zimmer spent a lifetime in the game as a player, manager, coach and special assistant. This should be something, single I'm a Yankee fan... Theo Epstein... How is he not in? The architects of so many great teams have not been inducted. Gene Michael built the Yankees dynasty (with Cashman as AGM and then GM) and isn't in the HOF. That makes no sense to me. Drafted Jeter, scouted and brought through the system Mariano Rivera. Signed Bernie Williams as a 16 year old kid.
We just need a place to honor the guys the Hall has left behind for one reason or another.
What are your thoughts on Buster Posey making the HOF ?
I want to say you had Realmuto as a "Has a Chance" type player last time around, but I suspect his injury this year moved him down a slot.
I haven’t really followed baseball for years but I think that Trout is fascinating. If you go by WAR he’s a lock. If you look at traditional stats, it looks like he’s going to fall short of the 3000/500 thresholds. No those numbers aren’t required but if he continues to get injured he’s going to fall well short.
3000 and 500 are not necessary at all. Those are first ballot thresholds
He also has won 3 MVP's.
Can't go by those numbers anymore. Especially since everyone in the entire MLB missed 100 games in 2020. (and some opted out of the season completely)
Trout was best player in baseball his first 7 or 8 yrs. He is a first ballot lock or should be
@@Krysdavar Guys like Willie Mays and Ted Williams missed years due to serving in the military, and they still hit those numbers.
3:46 nice!
You left off DeGrom who hasn't pitched yet this year but he probably belongs in the 50/50 cat although he's totally a HoFer in my book! Also, I think Wheeler has a chance if he keeps pitching like this for 5 more years (big ask) but his career numbers will look legit. I'd move Cole, Sale, Seager & Ramirez up to probably and move Xander down to has a chance. Those are guys I definitely believe in vs. Xander, who I don't really believe in.
Hall of Fame rings for some, used Toyota Camrys for others
HIts, Homeruns, Runs, RBIs, Stolen Bases I think are better to determine Hall of Fame inductees.
Fun video, thanks Chris
Altuve has a lot of post season records and over 100 playoff games. Second most RBI’s in the playoffs…
Is Chris Sale not comparable to Kirby Pucket's case? Both lost prime years due to injury. Pucket had 7 top 7 MVP finishes and a 51.1 career WAR. Sale has 8 Top 6 Cy Young finishes and will easily have over 60 WAR. Pucket had 10 all-star appearances and two World Series. Sale had 8 all-star appearances and one World Series. Is Pucket's case more sympathetic because he got glaucoma versus Sale's various injuries?
Great vid Chris!
Salvador Perez is a lock
If instead of being consecutive, the 7 year peak WAR was based on your actual best 7 seasons, Judges peak war is near the best ever for any position. His peak is dragged down by his 1.1 in the shortened 2020 season.
10th all time in Slugging, 11th in OPS, 2nd in AB/HR, 2nd in RF WAR/162.
Possibly the best rookie season as a batter ever. Two seasons that are top 25 all time. Significant AL record holder. ROY, and soon to be two time MVP with his rookie year having been robbed by a player who benefited from cheating. (Though Judge was better anyway. Altuve only led in steals and average. Judge was so much better that year than Altuve was and should be headed toward his 3rd MVP)
One factor I think helps him a lot with his MVP seasons (assuming he wins this year) is level of difficulty. 22 he topped a historically great season from Ohtani and this year he will have beaten Bobby Witt Jr and his likely 10+ WAR (best season in his franchises history and up there with the best shortstop seasons ever)
Also, Judge is incredibly well liked and respected by the writers, so they almost certainly elect him. If not, is there any chance his peers don't put him in via committee? Players know when a guy is the guy. And Judge is most definitely the guy.
Very good video and info.
I wonder if Nola would be a longshot if he reached 3000 strikeouts. Only Clemens and Schilling are in that club and probably won’t be HOFers. Only other people not in are probables, CC, Scherzer and soon to be Kershaw. He’d only have to average 150 for the next 8 years to do it. His game figures to age fairly well as he’s never had overwhelming power. Just a nasty curve.
WAR is such an interesting statistic, I’m trying to figure out how Bobby Richardson made 8 all star games and finished his career with a WAR of 8.
That is interesting! I might look into that
What about Stephen Strasburg?
He is retired and has really no chance
@@collectorinvestordealer I asked you that after your first video. The Nationale pulled him from rotation his rookie year in the playoffs because they didn't want to injure or burn his arm up. They were expected to atleast represent the National League in the World Series 🌎.
Here's hoping that Pete Alonso with the New York Mets can up his game to qualify for the HOF. - Heather
Where’s degrom? He has 45 WAR although hasn’t played yet this season.
Also, I think Zack Wheeler should at least be in the same category as Nola. He’s arguably been the best pitcher of the 2020’s and if he continues to have strong seasons, I feel like he could have a “long shot” chance at making it. Especially if standards for HOF pitchers loosens up after the big 3 get in.
Zack Greinke?
Harold Baines: 38.8 career WAR 🤣🤣🤣
Lol. He's in his own category. To be fair- there are some pre-war guys who have even lower WAR too.
Not a big Machado fan, but he is a lock. No doubt HOFer.
A lot of people forget that the 'gold standard' of 3,000/500 is a lot harder now for those who started playing MLB prior to 2020. Everyone in the entire MLB missed 100 games in 2020. (and some opted out of the season completely) People keep forgetting this long-lost fact already. We've probably already seen the last 300 win pitcher because starting pitchers don't pitch as many innings as 10 years ago even.
Very Very true 👍
100 games isn’t that much. Id say just a little harder. There were some strike shortened seasons before and some players missed years in the military etc.
Well yeah, and those players missed out on some significant stats. Ted Williams didn't get to 3,000 hits, and but for his service, probably gets to over 3,500. He had 500+ HR, but would have had over 600.
If you want a great example of a player punished because they didn't play as many games as others, try Thurman Munson.
You can look up the numbers. During the decade he played at the same time as Johnny Bench, Thurman Munson had the better offensive numbers, was the better defender, and the better postseason performer. He played the requisite 10 seasons, but when people argue he isn't a HOF worthy player, they point to his not having the counting stats. The man died. He died, after playing the required seasons for eligibility, and is punished for it and for not getting to the numbers it takes 15+ full seasons to attain.
Fred McGriff was kept out of the Hall.for years because he was 7 shy of the arbitrary number people decided was automatic entry (barring cheaters in some cases). He missed games as a result of the 94-95 player strike. He 100% would have had an additional 15+ HRs if not for the strike, and would probably have been a first ballot inductee.
He missed roughly 100 games. So Yeah, 100 games IS that much. Give Aaron Judge 100 games and he adds another 30-40 HRs to his career total. 100 games in a season is 20 starts for a starting pitcher and possibly 150-200 strikeouts. It might be 30+ saves for a closer.
These are numbers that aren't insignificant to a players HOF candidacy. Particularly since so many people have an antiquated notion of the numbers that make you a lock.
@@snerdterguson Great post, thanks for the additional info.
Perez led a team of nobody’s to a WS appearance and then WS win 2 years later. The biggest underdogs ever, maybe. That has to count for something too.
Acuna
I just hate Manny Machado for the ruthless way he ended Dustin Pedroia's career. But, yeah, he's certainly in the HoF conversation. Pedroia should've been, too.
His performance for the Dodgers in the Workd Series should keep Machado out.
Pedroias over it. You should be too. Manny is getting in easy weather you like it not. Everyone's knocking his '24 season, why?? The dudes got 25 HR and 90 RBI and batting .275 coming off surgery and playing lights out D. I don't get it?
@@danbradley3294 the beauty of being a fan is that you never have to get over something. I mean, are the Raiders fans over the tuck rule? Is Bucky Dent's unofficial middle name still "Effing" (or less pleasant variations)? Don't Titans fans wish the field was one yard shorter? "Hating" makes rivalries, and rivalries make sports awesome.
Ronald Acuna Jr. ??
We does not have 30 WAR yet so was not conisdered for this video
Found couple starling marte wish me luck
Where does DeGrom rank?
I don't think there's a way he gets in. He probably would be if he has played more and not gotten hurt every year
@garygordon3075 I know sadly that's the case... would be interesting if he came back strong and won 1 more Cy Young award, then he'd be in that category which all are in. That's why I think he should at least get a mention
50/50… you think about half will make it? Sounds about right
I noticed mike trout wasnt listed... poor guy cant catch a break
nice video, it might be interesting if you pretended it was 1990 and you didnt know 'future' events
Ooh that would be a fun idea for a video...
Nomar’s career was well above some these guys.
Pete Alonso will be HOF
I heard 2011 Topps Update is a good product 🤣
Where’s Zach Greinke? 69.9 WAR
? Will Shohei Ohtani be in the hall of fame.
Would have liked to see the pitching numbers for Ohtani shown. None of these batters have 39 wins as a pitcher.
If he gets to 100 wins with 400 homeruns and 3+ mvps he is in.
So Tatis Jr. is a no ? 😮💨
Drug cheat.
He is not at 30 career WAR yet so I didn’t consider him for this video
A big NO
He was already suspended for rOids so no he has no shot.