TARIFFS and TAXES: The REAL Cause of the CIVIL WAR?!
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- Опубликовано: 15 янв 2020
- Episode 3 of Checkmate, Lincolnites! Debunking the Lost Cause myth that the American Civil War was fought over taxes and protectionist tariffs. Was the South subjected to disproportionate taxation? Did the Morrill Tariff cause secession? Watch and find out, you no-account, yellow-bellied sesech!
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I love that he avoids creating a strawman out of the Confederate by literally stealing all his lines from NeoConfederates
What the hell was that last guy even on about?
@@Jyyhjyyh Who knows he was just saying... a lot of shit
@@Jyyhjyyh Nobody knows. Not even he himself.
Bohemond I of Antioch Why do you have that dumbass McClellan as your profile pic; why not Grant, Sherman or Meade?
Daenerys Stormborn because McClellan is an absolute chad
Confederate apologists: "No fair, he's arguing with himself!"
Him: *reading their comments*
Cherry-picked modern day comments, instead of real facts and points the South had
@@steelbear2063 which were... ?
@@steelbear2063 i hope you realise he has picked on MOST OF if not ALL points the south had by now
Hey, did y’all hear how Texas is removing descriptions of Woman’s Suffrage, Martin Luther King Jr’s speech, the reason the Civil War started, and everything that made the KKK bad from their education system? Lost Causers are breeding.
@@steelbear2063 lol and that point was to preserve slavery
I tried to show this to my AP history class today and fhe kids hated it. They kept saying things like "you aren't our real teacher" and "please let us go home, we promise not to call the cops". Zoomers, huh.
This got me
Had me in the first half.
I am a proud southerner. I love history. I can admit when I need to reevaluate my beliefs. Your series has definitely made me look further into the Civil War and the causes, justifications, events, crimes committed and touted from both sides. Don't feel like your videos are for nothing. Great work!
Which state from you from
Accidentally disliked. Oops. Switched to a like.
Very cool man very cool
there are other ways to appreciate the south.
the wilderness rural aesthetic is nice.
nascar can be kind of cool.
bojangles is the best chicken.
im sattisfied with that part of my heritage.
not so much the racist stuff
Good on you, bud
WTF did you make me watch at the beginning of the video.
Cameron Ehteshami TWU
TWU
I'm five minutes in, I can't stop watching, and I fucking hate this guy for exposing me to it! MY LIFE WOULD BE SO MUCH BETTER IF I NEVER KNEW THIS EXISTED. Of course, I'm sharing it with everyone else I know.
@@mikeholmes1459 when my wife and I moved in with my cousin and his wife a few years ago, before getting a house of our own, my cousin's wife showed my wife and I a video called "willy bum bum" and ever since then 6 years later we still occasionally send each other a YT link with no context to one up each other on the trauma.
I think this will be my newest contribution to the feud
@@PiPArtemis this is friendship goals
God, I love import/export statistics. Military history buffs never pay enough attention to economic data.
@David McConville words of godly wisdom
The problem is...just because they were wrong about the taxes and tariffs doesn’t mean they weren’t the reason.
Yeah, me, too. I was reading that Erie Canal could be rated the indirect cause of the Civil War, and a key factor in the Union victory. With shipping now possible from the Great Lakes, with just modest rail lines to supplement movement to a lake port (e.g. Chicago), huge swaths of the Midwest could now export agricultural products to the world. (Remember that the Whisky Rebellion was driven by the practical limits of moving grain and similar for sale over roads, thus the over-reliance on alcohol production in many rural areas.)
Once the Erie Canal opened up, food exports from the Midwest grew exponentially, from merely a growing trickle in 1821 to a deluge that continued its exponential growth even through the Civil War years. This new source of agricultural wealth was beginning to rival the South's own exports, and the perceived value of the land in potential new states was rising.
Once the war started, there was no way that England could afford to jeopardize that flow of cheap food to their already restless masses. There would have been mass riots across England, blood running on the streets, and the cities would have burned if London intervened on the side of the Confederacy and food prices subsequently skyrocketed. England was already struggling with its own parliamentary reforms over political power and its "rotten boroughs" through the 19th century; London did not want to bring someone else's fight for slavery into their already messy politics.
@@theheretic3764 "The problem is...just because they were wrong about the taxes and tariffs doesn’t mean they weren’t the reason"
True. But if a wrong reason is touted as the cause, it suggests that such could be a purposeful lie. I get that sometimes people are honest and mistaken. I also get that sometimes people make "mistakes" very much on purpose.
The truth is that many, many reasons were given for secession, and I think it is fair to say that every single one had at least an arguable degree of legitimacy. It is also true that most of the reasons were directly or indirectly tied to slavery. The words "slave" and "slavery" show up again and again and again in articles of secession.
So while the tax argument is not entirely wrong, not at all, it gets promoted as the key reason in hindsight solely because it is not tied to slavery. Lo and behold we have the secessionists own words as testimony, and they choose to not promote taxes as the main cause. Whom should we believe about the minds of the Confederates? Their modern apologists? Or the Confederates themselves?
ComradeOgilvy1984 yes but the context determines the words application.
Four states absolutely mentioned the institution itself.
Saying “hostility toward slave holding states” doesn’t inherently mean slavery....
Yes anything that preserves the confederacy preserves slavery...directly or otherwise...but that not exactly relevant because the Union didn’t consider the preservation of slavery to be a problem. Trying to attribute everything that slavery was a part of to slavery itself is dishonest.
I think what we have to consider is that the institution of slavery wasn’t threatened with being abolished...multiple venues confirm this.
So when they say “hostility towards the institution of slavery” or such....what are they talking about?
It gets promoted because it was cited as the actual cause during the war.
Yes the letters of secession...in which SOME cite slavery... others...well...here.
Secession documents
Tennessee
First. We, the people of the State of Tennessee, waiving any expression of opinion as to the abstract doctrine of secession, but asserting the right, as a free and independent people, to alter, reform, or abolish our form of government in such manner as we think proper, do ordain and declare that all the laws and ordinances by which the State of Tennessee became a member of the Federal Union of the United States of America are hereby abrogated and annulled, and that all the rights, functions, and powers which by any of said laws and ordinances were conveyed to the Government of the United States, and to absolve ourselves from all the obligations, restraints, and duties incurred thereto; and do hereby henceforth become a free, sovereign, and independent State.
Second. We furthermore declare and ordain that article 10, sections 1 and 2, of the constitution of the State of Tennessee, which requires members of the General Assembly and all officers, civil and military, to take an oath to support the Constitution of the United States be, and the same are hereby, abrogated and annulled, and all parts of the constitution of the State of Tennessee making citizenship of the United States a qualification for office and recognizing the Constitution of the United States as the supreme law of this State are in like manner abrogated and annulled.
Third. We furthermore ordain and declare that all rights acquired and vested under the Constitution of the United States, or under any act of Congress passed in pursuance thereof, or under any laws of this State, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.
[Sent to referendum May 6, 1861 by the legislature, and approved by the voters by a vote of 104,471 to 47,183 on June 8, 1861.]
ARKANSAS
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union now existing between the State of Arkansas and the other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America.
Whereas, in addition to the well-founded causes of complaint set forth by this convention, in resolutions adopted on the 11th of March, A.D. 1861, against the sectional party now in power in Washington City, headed by Abraham Lincoln, he has, in the face of resolutions passed by this convention pledging the State of Arkansas to resist to the last extremity any attempt on the part of such power to coerce any State that had seceded from the old Union, proclaimed to the world that war should be waged against such States until they should be compelled to submit to their rule, and large forces to accomplish this have by this same power been called out, and are now being marshaled to carry out this inhuman design, and to longer submit to such rule, or remain in the old Union of the United States, would be disgraceful and ruinous to the State of Arkansas:
Therefore we, the people of the State of Arkansas, in convention assembled, do hereby declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained, That the "ordinance and acceptance of compact"
passed and approved by the General Assembly of the State of Arkansas on the 18th day of October, A.D. 1836, whereby it was by said General Assembly ordained that by virtue of the authority vested in said General Assembly by the provisions of the ordinance adopted by the convention of delegates assembled at Little Rock for the purpose of forming a constitution and system of government for said State, the propositions set forth in "An act supplementary to an act entitled An act for the admission of the State of Arkansas into the Union and to provide for the due execution of the laws of the United States within the same, and for other purposes," were freely accepted, ratified, and irrevocably confirmed, articles of compact and union between the State of Arkansas and the United States, and all other laws and every other law and ordinance, whereby the State of Arkansas became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby, in all respects and for every purpose herewith consistent, repealed, abrogated, and fully set aside; and the union now subsisting between the State of Arkansas and the other States, under the name of the United States of America, is hereby forever dissolved.
And we do further hereby declare and ordain. That the State of Arkansas hereby resumes to herself all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance to said Government of the United States, and that she is in full possession and exercise of all the rights and sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State.
(Election of Lincoln as a Republican candidate, elected largely by the North.
Arkansas seceded after Fort Sumter and Lincoln's call for volunteers to put down the reb which is what they are referring to here.)
FLORIDA
We, the people of the State of Florida, in convention assembled, do solemnly ordain, publish.
and declare, That the State of Florida hereby withdraws herself from the confederacy of States existing under the name of the United States of America and from the existing Government of the said States, and that all political connection between her and the Government of said States ought to be, and the same is hereby, totally annulled, and said Union of States dissolved; and the State of Florida is hereby declared a sovereign and independent nation, and that all ordinances heretofore adopted, in so far as they create or recognize said Union, are rescinded; and all laws or parts of laws in force in this State, in so far as they recognize or assent to said Union, be, and they are hereby, repealed.
Passed 10 Jan 1861
LOUISIANA
AN ORDINANCE to dissolve the union between the State of Louisiana and other States united with her under the compact entitled "The Constitution of the United States of America."
We, the people of the State of Louisiana, in convention assembled, do declare and ordain, and it is hereby declared and ordained. That the ordinance passed by us in convention on the 22d day of November, in the year eighteen hundred and eleven, whereby the Constitution of the United States of America and the amendments of the said Constitution were adopted, and all laws and ordinances by which the State of Louisiana became a member of the Federal Union, be, and the same are hereby, repealed and abrogated, and that the union now subsisting between Louisiana and other States under the name of "The United States of America" is hereby dissolved.
We do further declare and ordain, That the State of Louisiana hereby resumes all rights and powers heretofore delegated to the Government of the United States of America; that her citizens are absolved from all allegiance to said Government, and that she is in full possession and exercise of all those rights of sovereignty which appertain to a free and independent State.
We do further declare and ordain, That all rights acquired and under the Constitution of the United States, or any act of Congress, or treaty, or under any law of this state, and not incompatible with this ordinance, shall remain in force and have the same effect as if this ordinance had not been passed.
Adopted in convention at Baton Rouge this 26th day of January, 1861.
Show me slavery in there.
_"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves."_ -Abraham Lincoln
*Still true today.*
And that's happening right now.
@@jamesgodwin7215 we can still unite as a people.
@@thebowiththemost119 we really need to Bobby. At my age I've had a life but I fear for the younger generations. It feels to me as if we are already living in George Orwells "1984". Not much else I dare say on here. I do wish you peace and good will. Take care...
@@jamesgodwin7215 well, some may call me blind, but I do believe in people. I believe that the untidy of people will rise before any evil.
Poor against rich middle class have did in happens now in austria
Fun fact: the Tories in particular also supported the Confederacy because they viewed American democracy as corrupt and anarchic. Both the British liberals and conservatives assumed the US wouldnt' win the war; Charles Darwin said he was depressed that slavery would triumph. Palmerston himself hated Slavery, but hated the United States and its mixed-ethnicity people even more; he pressured Davis to abolish slavery so the British moderates and liberals (particularly the radicals like Cobden and Bright) cooperate with his push for recognition. The Confederates were shocked by the very notion and pointed out that slavery was the entire reason they seceded.
Absolutely WRONG.
The US was, at the time, overwhelmingly Anglophobic. It CORRECTLY regarded the British Empire as a clearly IMMORAL institution.
Meanwhile, the British government feared that, given time, the US might come to be the most powerful nation on the Planet (the Brits were already in a low-level conflict with the Russian Empire and fought FOUR wars against Imperial China). The British government supported the Southern TRAITORS solely to weaken the US. Cotton was just a by product as they were rapidly increasing their SEIZURES (you can't call them "imports" when it's done under military coercion!) of cotton from both India and Egypt!
@@michaelodonnell824 Yes, there was also a political element- the British hated the new competition, already having their hands full with France and Russia. Germany and the US threatened things further, especially after the previous American invasions of Canada.
However, let's not forget the ideological underpinnings by the Tories- a triumph of Lincoln would be a triumph of Republicanism, especially as more and more Irish and blacks joined the US army. Africa and Ireland were viewed as barbaric by Europe and America at the time, Britain was still conquering Africa, and the British were aware of the new Fenian movement (indeed immediately after the war the Fenians attacked in both Canada and Ireland, and some British blamed the US for allowing it to happen despite the US allying with the UK against the Fenians)
@@michaelodonnell824 First off, while it is true that the British government wanted to weaken the US, it wasn't their sole goal. If it was, they would've massively increased their weapons sales and likely publicly threatened to join the war. Also, the term "import" has nothing to do with morality or the method by which an item was obtained. To import is simply to bring something into a country or region it was not originally from
@@michaelodonnell824 just because you’re using caps lock doesn’t make you right.
How did the British support the south when they deliberately refrained from recognising it, and were rabidly anti slavery?
@@Tom-2142 Because some politicians of the British goverment wanted to have the South as buisiness partners because of their cotton industry and some politicians even repeated the lies of the South.
It was only after Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation that the politicians stopped supporting the South because it would've made them look bad
I’m a Southern born and bred, conservative in politics, and yes the civil war was fought over slavery. It is clear history.
Do you ever argue with Lost Causers?
@@BradyPostma No, they never bring it up.
Unknown Texan “What do you call 10 men eating dinner with one Nazi?
11 Nazi’s.” - German saying about how tolerating hateful, oppressive, or prejudiced people is the same as supporting them.
Not saying you have done this, just making the point that it’s up to us to challenge people who we know to hold such destructive beliefs.
@@piedpiper1172 Sure, but it never really was a subject growing up in Tennessee in the 1970s. Everybody knew it was about slavery. There was little to challenge, and my family were yellow dog Democrats, The progenitors this thinking. If anything it was "yeah but" as to soften the disdain a bit.
@@piedpiper1172 not a bad quote. Why the GOP should restructure and become a party about policy and not moral outrage. Balance things out a little.
“If you dropped an atomic bomb on truth, what you just said wouldn’t even have radiation burns.”
I need to find some way to use this in conversation, because that was brilliant.
I've used it about 4 times since I first saw this video lmao. How bout you?
I more like the line "if you dropped the tsar bomb on -insert thing here- it wouldn't be able to see the mushroom cloud"
I already had that chance to say that and it felt good
Radiation injuries are actually found only very close to the detonation point. The x-rays and gamma rays and other injurious particles and emissions and so on are rapidly extinct in air.
Talk to a politician
The real credit goes to all the neo-confederates in the comments section for providing content for these videos.
I;m looking for more here, but I can't find any!
That would be because Neo-Confederates is just another slack jawed label put on people arguing for historical literacy being wrongly labeled as people that "Just want slaves back".
Yeah. Sure. I'm "Neo-Confederate", the guy who comes from a Cherokee family who's ancestors walked the Trail of Tears and our introduction to the area we live in was being shunned by both the whites and the natives for being an interracial couple. Yeah, me.
Or maybe people like myself just get really tired of everyone trying to water down historical context into black and white matters (no pun intended) when reality is a lot more nuanced and a lot less heroic. Truth is, the Confederates AND the Union were dipping their feet in the exact same practices and I get really tired of history "buffs" feigning intellectual superiority by parroting "confederates bad" and thinking they are owed a medal. Crazy, too, how a lot of these misconceptions started happening at a time where it has become politically convenient for many to portray one side of the fence as morally evil because we live in an age where everyone has to signal how virtuous they are for clout.
You're not slick.
And you're not fooling me.
"I haven't changed anyone's mind"
But you have, you sure changed mine.
He didn’t show how the taxes are NOT equally redistributed, his point is invalid. The south got “short changed” , also he also failed to show southern export taxes percentages, you know cotton ,ironically… interestingly he only shows the northern exports.
@@coupons420 New Orleans was in there
@@coupons420 New Orleans was third on the list of most heavily tariffed cities in the United States just before the civil war. Further examination of the documents reveal that the tariffs in northern cities were the highest in the nation, most major southern cities didn’t even make it to the top ten of the highest tariffs, New Orleans being the exception rather than the rule.
I was never pro-confederate but I did still believed in part of the lost cause myth because even some of my teachers believed in them back when I was in school >.>
More recently, my mom fell for it too when watching a youtube video, exactly regarding tariffs. But I actually couldn't remember all the details to rebuke it. Now that time has past, it would b random to bring up.
Honestly it’s funny that the confederate guy is kind of a nice guy and cares about the other dude while also having terrible opinions.
Almost ALL people are complex, but understanding that complexity requires far more time than we are willing to give in our rush to label those we meet.
@TEAGHAN MITCHELL yeah like how my boss is a good man that treats his employees fairly but a shitty father that beat his wife and screams at his kids because he vented his anger unto them.
Most people are neither completely good or evil. You can have terrible opinions while still be a somewhat morally upright person that even your opponents respect you on a personal level. It’s why Robert E. Lee is remembered so fondly: your archetypal southern gentleman, well mannered, articulate and ingratiated himself to his peers, even as the commander of the ANV he still had the respect of officers on both sides and politicians. You might not have agreed with him but you respected him, he was your opponent but not an actual enemy. Same can be said for all of the southern high command and officers, the civil war was a surreal experience for them since they were fighting against people they went to school with, trained with, broke bread and engaged in revelry with. Their roommates, their classmates from their West Point days.
You can say he has that Southern Hospitality.
.... I'll take my leave
I’m a cartoon character, not an idiot!
-Johnny Reb
Just want to say that while I was never a staunch believer in the "Lost Cause" myth, it was something I casually agreed with, and your videos changed my mind, and taught me a lot of the true historical facts. Appreciate your work!
Even my very liberal partner used to believe in some aspects of the "Lost Cause" because it's what was taught to her in school in Texas.
Christopher Blair Hmmm, I go to school in Texas and we never got any of that. I learned Lost Cause from the Internet, and my school probably stole the curriculum from this video
@@SeekerLancer I was homeschooled, an environment one would expect would be rife with the Lost Cause myth. That was not the case however. It's something I came across through watching debates and reading. I wasn't doing serious historical research, it was just something that made some sense to me on a surface level.
It might be worth mentioning that I'm a conservative, but in my opinion left vs right doesn't really have any relevance when it comes to the truth.
@@whatsinaname691 ritter.tea.state.tx.us/rules/tac/chapter113/index.html I cannot find previous years standards. I'm guessing they aren't too keen about letting just anyone have it. If I had the time I'd go research more and send emails and look into if there is any Texas FOIA. But in elementary school, its not taught well. I don't want to say its Lost Causer, but, its concerning how its taught. It doesn't put slavery front and center, which creates opportunity for a Lost Cause teacher to still follow the rules and instill that kind of BS. Based on what I've read here, there isn't much of it here, but I'm still worried, because they only reason why the cleaned up the standards was because of news pieces like this. The fact that they tried in got pretty far was alarming. If certain factions insist on teaching the Bible, then lets have them learn how the Bible was twisted into a weapon to silence opposition and support slavery. www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/State-textbook-standards-on-Civil-War-concern-6373928.php www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/whitewashing-civil-war-history-for-young-minds/2015/07/06/1168226c-2415-11e5-b77f-eb13a215f593_story.html www.nytimes.com/2018/11/21/us/texas-slavery-social-studies-curriculum.html thedailytexan.com/2017/06/18/texas-textbooks-dangerously-misrepresent-causes-of-civil-war
But they are being honest, or at least mostly honest for once
"(7) History. The student understands how political, economic, and social factors led to the growth of sectionalism and the Civil War. The student is expected to:
(A) analyze the impact of tariff policies on sections of the United States before the Civil War;
(B) compare the effects of political, economic, and social factors on slaves and free blacks;
(C) analyze the impact of slavery on different sections of the United States; and
(D) identify the provisions and compare the effects of congressional conflicts and compromises prior to the Civil War, including the role of John Quincy Adams.
*my additional note, its interesting that they include John Quincy Adams by name. He was proud to go down in history as the "most acutest, most astutest, and most ardent opponent of Southern slavery." He has an incredibly interesting story. He was a like Charles Sumner, and very ahead of his time. When he went up to the Supreme Court in the Amistad case, he was basically like this whole process has been biased against my client since everyone's been racist against them. He, a 74 year old man, who was afraid of taking this case, because he knew the stakes, and felt like he wouldn't be able to do a good job, and yet he spoke for about 8.5 hours across two days. He started: now I'm going to lay out the facts and show what happened, how they were illegally kidnapped and captured as slaves, and then simply asserted their right to be free when rebelling, and thus was not murdering when they killed their captors. I'm going to lay out the laws and the treaties and show why they are legally free, and all the legal avenues to re-enslave them are blocked. I'm going to show you how there was a certain partiality towards a certain side, and thus tainted this process. I'm going to show you how Spain had improperly tried to get the President to send the back to Spanish control, and try to ignore the court system. I'm going to show you how paper thin the assertion that these people were born in Cuba (would still technically be legal), and not kidnapped from Africa, and how that's a big fat lie. He reviews a previous case called the Antelope. He goes on massive tangents, and shits on the court for how ridiculous this whole situation is. If the other side wins, then the illegally captured slaves would be sent back to Cuba for a faux trial, and Adams repeats that it would be violation of many things including: unconstitutional, is both evidence of and evidenced by the bias towards one side, obeying a foreign country and violating American sovereignty, due process, the separation of powers, the authority and independence of the judicial branch, runs counter to and violates civil liberties, individual, human, and natural rights, increased executive overreach and interference, and would give or assume the President illegal powers of tyranny.
(8) History. The student understands individuals, issues, and events of the Civil War. The student is expected to:
(A) explain the roles played by significant individuals during the Civil War, including Jefferson Davis, Ulysses S. Grant, Robert E. Lee, and Abraham Lincoln, and heroes such as congressional Medal of Honor recipients William Carney and Philip Bazaar;
(B) explain the central role of the expansion of slavery in causing sectionalism, disagreement over states' rights, and the Civil War;
(C) explain significant events of the Civil War, including the firing on Fort Sumter; the battles of Antietam, Gettysburg, and Vicksburg; the Emancipation Proclamation; Lee's surrender at Appomattox Court House; and the assassination of Abraham Lincoln; and
(D) analyze Abraham Lincoln's ideas about liberty, equality, union, and government as contained in his first and second inaugural addresses and the Gettysburg Address and contrast them with the ideas contained in Jefferson Davis's inaugural address."
But don't celebrate just yet. They still have a Confederate Heroes Day. Something tells me they are celebrating people like Jefferson Davis, Jubal Early, Richard Ewell, Nathaniel Bedford Forrest, and not James Longstreet, William Mahone, and Mark Twain (he served briefly in a Confederate militia that went nowhere because he was young and stupid, I'll forgive that, its clear his heart wasn't in it), or even more neutral characters like James Alcorn or John Mosby.
As a northerner, I’d not been aware of all the fuckery that union-associated militias in Missouri got up to.
Growing up I first thought the Civil War was about slavery, only to later be taught in elementary school that it was a combination of slavery and states rights. This led to a lot of lost cause thinking for me growing up. Your channel is one of the key contributors towards changing my mind on the topic along with Knowing Better's channel. The fact lost cause ideology was taught to me in school actively upsets me. Yes the civil war was about states rights, their "right" to own slaves.
I grew up in Washington State, the polar opposite of the South, and I was taught similar sentiments in elementary/middle school. I'm right there with ya in having my former lost cause beliefs changed due to channels like this.
@@chrisflannagan643 that’s interesting, I’m from Pennsylvania and they almost never gave any alternative to slavery as a cause. They did the timeline which included tariffs sparking outrage like under Jackson. But they never said it wasnt about slavery.
Maybe its how close our state’s history is to it, we just wanna avoid any justification.
Also, please remember that while INSISTING on their own right to own and brutalize and rape slaves (without "Regulation" - remind you of the 2nd Amendment?), the South also DEMANDED that in States where slavery had been abolished, State and local officials had a DUTY to help THEM hunt "Slaves", who were often free born Black people!
So Southern "States Rights" deliberately infringed on the Rights of ALL other States!
@@HighOctane01 "slavery was always the biggest reason"
What do you mean by "slavery" as a reason for war? If slavery was any reason for the war at all, why did the US Congress at the outset of the war officially declare by a nearly unanimous vote "that this war is not waged... for any... purpose of overthrowing or interfering with the rights or established institutions [i.e. slavery] of those States..."? And why did the Confederacy likewise never make any slavery-related demands of the Union? I think the answer is because your explanation is vague propaganda nonsense that apologists for coerced union are completely incapable of explaining but is it just pure nonsense.
"and the other reasons given were largely related to slavery or at the very least slavery affected it."
The northern states' refusal to abide by the terms of union, by the constitution, particularly with respect to the fugitive slave clause was certainly a cause of secession, but so what? It's not as if seceding offered any hope of getting fugitive slaves more effectively returned from the northern states. The southern states didn't go to war in order to get them back. They abandoned all claims to fugitive slaves from the northern states when they seceded.
None of those issues that "related to slavery" were at stake in the war, not unless you count issues like protective tariffs.
Actually the civil war was never about slavery it was about tariffs, slavery was never mentioned once during the civil war until the very end, Lincoln only added slavery to the very ending of of it because the south was winning the war so Lincoln decided to add slavery get to more people on his side. But if you read every later Lincoln made during the war he only mentioned the war was about keeping the union attached, Lincoln also mentioned more then once during the war and before the war that he believes slavery was state rights and he believed he had no power to infringe on state rights when it came to slavery . The war was only about keeping the union attached the confederacy left the union because the south was being over tax with tariffs, according to the documents from the archives from the area shows the the north was charging the south between 80% higher tax's where the northern territory of the US was paying less taxs. And the south was tired of the northern abuse, the south was planning on succeeding from the union years before Lincoln decided to run for office and during that time the whole of the use owned slaves. But the succeeding didn't officially go through until the time Lincoln ran for office.
I have to say that as a southerner, your videos have helped me weed through all of the bullshit I was taught as a kid by family and even in school. Your videos are important and very well-made and informative.
"Apparently BreadTube is just liberals making RUclips videos"
All of BreadTube: Screaming
Poor guy lol
Breadtubers aren't liberals, most are communist/Socialists
I don’t care what politics people have, I just wanna enjoy myself
He's actually right tho. Most of them are basically libs
@@victoriah4278 liberal =\= left
Liberals in the US are considered left only because American politics is fucked.
breadtube = radlib confirmed
How to tell you're a real history buff: records regarding tariffs and import/export numbers in 1850's and 1860's America is truly interesting to you.
Bruh, the stats about how much New York merchants contributed to Federal revenue was straight jaw-dropping. I don't think I've ever been quite so floored by a set of numbers.
All the historians I've met regard "history buff" as a deadly insult. It's synonymous with "filthy amateur" to them.
@@JETZcorp NYC was the "freest" economy by then even doing decent during the Panic of 1819 (?) b/c many banks in the northeast were full reserve not like today's fractional reserve. The Locofocos (aka Equal Rights Party) were a major influence in that area.
@@protahgonist A lot of fake experts proclaim themselves to be history buffs. If fake experts used a different term besides history buff, I don't think historians would hate the term.
@@protahgonist I mean... That's exactly what history buffs are. They aren't historians, and therefore amateurs.
These myths you are debunking I was literally taught them in middle school. And I was raised in Oregon. They are changing minds. Keep up the the good work.
You sure you were (and may still be) in oregon,or were you hallucinating in south Carolina
Despite their reputation as bastions of liberalism, outside of Seattle and especially Portland Oregon and Washington are *full* of white supremacists and descendents of ex-confederates. You can't swing a bat in rural washington without hitting a truck with a confederate flag bumper sticker.
Same here in Idaho, but that’s probably less surprising.
@@brunopavlovic9794 bro I was taught stuff like this in South Carolina lol
I actually got angry when the snoring was almost loud enough to tone out the economic data I was actually interested to listen to?
In the Declarations of Secession, tariffs are not cited once. There is one mention of an internal tax by one state. Slavery is cited over 80 times. In delegations to enlist the last states to the confederacy the subject was only slavery. In the negotiations to avoid war the subject was only slavery.
@@Iannnus he even said he wouldn’t take away their slaves but did they listen no because “he’s gonna take our slaves”
You have to realize who wrote those "declarations." It was the southern elite who typically did own slaves so of course they would protect their own interests. Kind of like how George Washington wanted DC to be near his Mount Vernon property.
@@JK-gu3tl : No question the confederacy was oligarchic and plutocratic but one third of FAMILIES in those states owned slaves and 100 years of Jim Crow proved most southern whites embraced racism.
@@lrvogt1257 Who sat on the Supreme Court for the vast majoricy decision of Plessy V. Ferguson? It was Southerners, that's for sure. Heck, the lone dissent was a good ole boy from Kentucky whose family owned slaves at one point. This stuff is much more complex. Folks don't realize many southerners left for Brazil after the Civil War with their slaves and educated them among other things that were unheard of due to American gov't intervention.
@@JK-gu3tl yes and realise how there would have been no war if noone "lend their swords" to fight for that elite and their cause. I know you might say the soldiers only fought for their homes and not for slavery. But if the soldiers didn't fight their homes wouldn't have been threatened as the southern elite had no protectors and the war would have been over pretty quickly.
"An atomic bomb could be dropped on truth and your statement wouldn't even get radiation burns"
Best. Sentence. Ever.
Next time I open a bottle of Jack Daniel's I'll pull my sword to cut the wrapper around the cork
Everyone gangsta until the Yankee pulls of the economic data
This is quality content. Costumes, researched rebuttals, jokes and great production! I’ll have to check more of your stuff out!
Thanks!
@@AtunSheiFilms Coincidentally I think a couple of months ago I DID see one of your videos posted on the breadtube subreddit! I hope your channel blows up with views like you deserve.
@@AtunSheiFilms There's four more "Checkmate Lincolnites!" videos I would _REALLY_ love to see:
-a video on Sherman's campaigns in Georgia and the Carolinas, and how Lost Causers greatly exaggerated the destruction it caused; if you could arrange for Lindybeige to cameo on this video, I would greatly enjoy it.
-a video on Confederates trying to gain international recognition from the Great Powers of Europe, and why it fell flat; if you could arrange for Brandon F to cameo on this video, I would greatly enjoy it.
-an assessment of Confederate industrialization (or lack thereof) and how the Confederate economy was unprepared for a modern "hard war"; if you could arrange for TIK to cameo on this video, I would greatly enjoy it.
-a video going how one of the cornerstones of the Lost Cause (besides overt racism and butthurt over losing the war) was medievalist romanticism and Antebellum southern fixation on chivalry (to the point that Mark Twain's _A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court_ is as much an attack on Lost Causers as it is on Sir Walter Scott); if you could arrange for Shadiversity to cameo on this video, I would greatly enjoy it.
@@Tellyouwhat777 I am confident that Atun-Shei is *_NOT_* a breadtuber. Not once did he blame the Bourgeoisie or capitalism for the Civil War, deny the Communist's involvement in the Haymarket bombing of 1886, or insinuate that family-owned small businesses are as evil as large corporations.
@@strategicgamingwithaacorns2874 I think Tik would be best used for a ww2 discussion, not the American civil war. And yours talking to a patreon of Tik.
The United Daughters of the Confederacy was a significant leader of the “Lost Cause,” an intellectual movement that revised history to look more favorably on the South after the American Civil War. They were women from elite antebellum families that used their social and political clout to fundraise and pressure local governments to erect monuments that memorialized Confederate heroes. They also formed textbook review committees that monitored what Southern schoolchildren learned about the war. Their influential work with children created a lasting memory of the Confederate cause, and those generations grew up to be the segregationists of the Jim Crow Era in the South.
hope theyre all burning in hell now for all the damage theyve done
In Japan war criminals wrote the history books
@@icyr0bin-794 What damage?
@@JK-gu3tl google “Charlottesville”
@@JK-gu3tl lying to generations of school children?? Sounds kind of damaging to raise children who form life opinions based on blatant lies
I used to believe the lost cause myth but you showed me the truth and how wrong i was thank you!
It still amazes me that in America they still glorify the CSA its like if Bavaria or Austria glorified the 3rd reich
Tell me about it. It shows just how bass-ackwards we are sometimes.
It’s embarrassing. As a proud Texan, it’s so heartbreaking to see so many folks lead astray by backwards ideology because they’ve mistaken it for “Southern Pride”. It ain’t pride. It’s a poisonous wound with roots in ignorance. slavery and racial oppression. There’s no pride in that.
Hey now as Peter griffin said,”America’s great isn’t it? Except the south.”
I used to buy into that whole lost cause mythology, but when I stumbled on the RUclips historian scene and found videos like yours it really did change my mind. So you got at least one
I feel no deeper respect than I do for people who actually admit they were wrong and change their minds when confronted with the truth.
i also thought outside the institution of slavery the south wasn't too bad either. AND now its well. oh boy lots more complex than that.
This comment is so unbelievably heartening, it just makes me feel so much better about this nation I love.
I was a lost causer until I actually researched Southern documents. The Confederacies own words destroy the Lost Cause narrative. That said I still have great respect for both Union and Confederate soldiers.
@@JVRottweil I believe in the lost cause but I do not deny that slavery was a reason of secession I just don't believe it was THE only reason of secession
I once had a very long argument with a guy on RUclips about this. He was essentially a northerner who had adopted the South as his home. He hated Lincoln and insisted both that tariffs were the cause and that Lincoln had brought the war on to appease his railroad company backers, and nothing I pointed out this to persuade him otherwise. The Cornerstone Speech? The state declarations of secession? "Secondary sources."
Confederate suspension of civil liberties?
"Necessity of war."
He would say this while continually attacking Lincoln as a tyrant. At one point I pointed out to him that had Lincoln been a European ruler, his treatment of the Confederacy would've been considered incredibly lenient. His reaction? "I'm glad you compared Lincoln to a European ruler, he'd have liked to be called a ruler."
Saddest thing was that he wrote well and was obviously, within limits, well read. I got the impression of intelligence imprisoned within a deeply dogmatic mindset.
Funny, because probably the best European ruler friend of Lincoln was Alexander II. of Russia who is known as "tsar liberator" or something like that as he abolished serfdom in Russia and also he was responsible for independence of most Balkan countries and he also almost signed the first Russian constitution, which didn't however happen as he was assassinated at the day when he went to sign it.
@@lordyaromir6407 The communist really fucked up on assassinatig him
Yes John S he is intelligent, his problem isn't lack of raw intelligence. He's defending what was the old orthodoxy, and as such he's stumbled on, what looks like at first, a complete system of thought.
I once was arguing on that same side because some Mises Libertarians said Lincoln was bad. I dislike federal involvement, and they blamed it on Lincoln. Now Mises.org isn't racist, just hell bent on pretending big government started earlier than Wilson and FDR.
Long story short, what changed my mind was that 1) None of the secession documents mentioned a tariff, but at least 6 or 7 of them explicitly mentioned slavery and 2) the South was NOT an open Libertarian society! They upheld slavery with gun control and censoring what political literature people could send in the mail! What your opponent said about "necessity of war" is inaccurate. They suppressed civil liberties I peacetime, both before and after the Civil War.
So anyway, I like your comment and added one of my own.
During a 1992 trip to Russia I saw the carriage Alexander II was assassinated in -- parked in a Moscow church lot with a number of other historical carriages. The anarchists who took him out had one job, once chance -- and they knew it, using a bomb big enough to blow the top rear of the carriage to splinters, along with most of the Czar's head and shoulders.
@@roberthaworth8991 The Alexander II. assassination was similar to the Franz Ferdinand in a way, that both happened "accidentaly" and on "second try," when the first bomb was thrown, it missed, but killed and wounded couple of other people, to which the Tzar responded by stepping out of his carriage to help the wounded people, by which he gave a perfect chance for another terrorist to finish the job.
5:53 - Also note that the tariff of 1857 was one of the lowest in the world at the time. As the Morrill tariff unquestionably favored Northern industrial interests, the tariff of 1857 unquestionably favored Southern economic interests, and was written by Senator Robert Hunter of Virginia- a Southerner and later Confederate. Johnny Reb can't have it both ways- he can't complain about the proposed tariff favoring the North without acknowledging that the existing tariff favored the South.
Before you knock being Hippie Jesus, remember that jobs are hard to find these days.
The intro was golden
I'm a southerner with at least three ancestors who fought for the CSA. These videos are brilliant -- informative and funny as hell. You deserve all the good coming your way for this work, man.
And I get a kick out of spotting the same books I have on your shelves. I think I have the same $30 Wal-Mart bookshelves I saw in one of your videos.
I have some ancestors who fought for the Confederacy. I even have one of their swords. I used to be a huge lost causer due to family history and the failings of the Tennessee education system. I’m a firm believer in the adage that, “If you know better, do better”. Now that I know that I was basically taught lost cause propaganda, my beliefs have changed.
I do gotta say when I was a high schooler I was a confederate but around late junior year in high school I started doing it less and less. When I graduated I started watching your series and it helped me a lot. Even as a history nerd I still love learning and eventually took down the flags and said they should be used for education, museums or reenactments so I thank you my good sir
It takes real character to look back on your old beliefs and say "God, I was such an idiot."
You may say you haven’t changed anyones mind, but you’ve changed mine, as someone born and raised in NC I hear my fair share of lost cause shit, and believed it too. Your videos had the statics and first hand accounts, presented in a way that doesn’t make me feel like I need to be ashamed of being southern. I applaud you man.
Thomas Jefferson: "to this compact each State acceded as a State, and is an integral party, its co-States forming, as to itself, the other party: that the government created by this compact was not made the exclusive or final judge of the extent of the powers delegated to itself; since that would have made its discretion, and not the Constitution, the measure of its powers; but that, as in all other cases of compact among powers having no common judge, each party has an equal right to judge for itself, as well of infractions as of the mode and measure of redress."
“If there be a principle that ought not to be questioned within the United States, it is, that every nation has a right to abolish an old government and establish a new one. This principle is not only recorded in every public archive, written in every American heart, and sealed with the blood of a host of American martyrs; but is the only lawful tenure by which the United States hold their existence as a nation.” James Madison, Sep. 7, 1793
“It adds to the stability and dignity, as well as to the authority, of the Constitution, that it rests on this legitimate and solid foundation. The states, then, being the parties to the constitutional compact, and in their sovereign capacity, it follows of necessity that there can be no tribunal, above their authority, to decide, in the last resort, whether the compact made by them be violated; and consequently, that, as the parties to it, they must themselves decide, in the last resort, such questions as may be of sufficient magnitude to require their interposition.” James Madison
"The principles and position of the present administration of the United States - the republican party - present some puzzling questions. While it is a fixed principle with them never to allow the increase of a foot of slave territory, they seem to be equally determined not to part with an inch 'of the accursed soil.' Notwithstanding their clamor against the institution, they seemed to be equally opposed to getting more, or letting go what they have got. They were ready to fight on the accession of Texas, and are equally ready to fight now on her secession. Why is this? How can this strange paradox be accounted for? There seems to be but one rational solution and that is, notwithstanding their professions of humanity, they are disinclined to give up the benefits they derive from slave labor. Their philanthropy yields to their interest. The idea of enforcing the laws, has but one object, and that is a collection of the taxes, raised by slave labor to swell the fund necessary to meet their heavy appropriations. The spoils is what they are after though they come from the labor of the slave." Alexander Stephens, VP of the Confederacy, March 1861
"Ours is a government founded upon the consent of sovereign States, and will be itself destroyed by the very act whenever it attempts to maintain or perpetuate its existence by force over its respective members. The surest way to check any inclination in North Carolina to quit our sisterhood, if any such really exist even to the most limited extent among her people, is to show them that the struggle is continued, as it was begun, for the maintenance of constitutional liberty. If, with this great truth ever before them, a majority of her people should prefer despotism to liberty, I would say to her, as to a wayward sister, 'depart in peace.'"
-Alexander Stephens, March 1864
John C. Calhoun stated in other letters that the reason he was fighting the tariff of 1832 was because if they could establish a precedent where congress would have no right to pass a tariff, that precedent would apply to slavery as well. The nullification of the tariff was intended to block legislation regarding slavery.
Just FYI breadtubers are leftists, (as in anarchists, communists, and generally anyone further left than Bernie Sanders) not liberals. "Bread" refers to The Conquest of Bread by Peter Kropotkin, an anarcho-communist philosopher.
Just FYI MAGA maggots are knuckle dragging morons.
Bob McRae just an FYI we’re all human just because u disagree with someone’s views or they have a stupid ideal doesn’t make them a knuckle dragging idiot
Yeah, and you have to subscribe to all of them just to get the RUclips algorithm to stop recommending you alt-right content just because you watched one innocuous Star Wars video.
Michael Mayo You’re right. The average Neanderthal probably had better cognitive abilities than the average MAGA chud.
@@erraticonteuse nice reference to, I believe it was Stephen? God that guy is a idiot
Remember when he said some real beta/incel stuff lol.
I like how "leftist youtube" just means you're anti-slavery.
And maybe a commie
@@understorymainchannel8326 they obviously don't know what communism is.
@@drakashrakenburgproduction5369 I guess so.
Long live Karl Marx and Frederick Douglas
Better dead than red
You know someone's content is good when they can talk about taxes and still get a million views
3:09 “If you dropped an atomic bomb on truth, what you just said wouldn’t even have radiation burns,” great quote
Okay, you got me. I snorted bourbon out when the Confederate soldier hit a vape.
Subbed
That sounds painful. Hope you're okay.
It was a year ago, I'll manage.
@@thatcanuck5670 😂😂
I really like your civil war videos, I recently found out that a few of my teachers tried to brainwash us into the “lost cause” myth and your videos have been really eye opening keep it up man. Love the content
What state do you live in?
@@povotaknight2063 Arizona
@@rcxdries8584 huh
Geez how many schools in America teach about the lost cause
@@kyekruchoski1457 A terrifyingly large amount.
I’ve watched a lot of RUclipsrs that cover history and out of all of them this is the one person I’d kill to drink whiskey with and talk history with
Glad you felt comfortable sharing your regular viewing habits with us at the beginning of the video.
I would like to propose that we dust off the archaic word "trumpery" and make it a a common part of the modern English lexicon again.
ExtremePragmatist I second this notion
I will use that glorious term as often as I can!
I propose we use the phrase trump card more as well
@@jjnn2 I second this
What does it mean again?
I haven’t thought this much about tarrifs & taxes since I watched “Star Wars: the Phantom Menace”
No matter how many times I watch this series it never gets old.
I fear for your liver, sir, should this continue. And I'm Scottish!
Nick Craig send prayers for my liver
Hmmmm I think the Irish would have called him a lightweight.?!🤔
true SCOTLANDER are catholic
" hip hop over mumble rap "!! I'm now officially a soldier of the C.S.A.🤣. Seriously tho these videos keep getting BETTER AND BETTER! your the best keep the awesome content coming.
Haha but is your tub creating the ultimate dilemma?
@@AtunSheiFilms 🤣🤣👍
I think that guy had a stroke half way through typing that.
I wish I could do one of these videos with you. I was raised in a super confederate-defensive, revisionist family and believed in their nonsense well past my college days. My original queries let me to Thomas J DiLorenzo and other similar apologists (“Black Southerners in Grey,” etc) who reinforced the lost cause narrative.
Only after I got really into history and read a lot more of the original sources (Stephens, Mosby, declarations of secession, etc) did I understand that I had been fed a false narrative.
Benefits of a misspent youth, I can argue every point as a southerner and then tear it apart. Not half as entertaining as you though!
These vids should be shown in schools. It shouldn’t even be a question what the civil war was fought over
Especially the very beginning of this one.
"tHe cIvIL wAr wASn'T FoUGhT OvEr SlAvErYY"
*Yankee Intensifies*
*wAr oF nOrtHerN aGrEEsiOnn
nice keep betraying the poor Filipinos with THE ALLMIGHTYYY UNCLE SAAAAMMMM
Referencing the Confederate Constitution, Alexander H. Stephens, Vice-President of the Confederacy, said:
"The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions - African slavery as it exists among us - the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this as the 'rock upon which the old union would be split.' He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact." (Cooper, Thomas V. _American Politics_. Chicago: C.R. Brodix, 1882, v.1 p. 118)
I just found the Corner Stone speech this weekend. I emailed this exact quote to our county judge who maintains the war was about states rights. We're petitioning to remove the UDC-installed monument. The myth of the Lost Cuase is alive and well to this day.
@@magpietexas9475 Did he ever respond?
@@minutemansam1214 Yes! He ended up holding a public hearing, which was very well attended and I was able to speak, along with dozens of others, almost all of whom were in favor of removing the confederate symbols. The county commissioners (mostly republicans) voted to remove them and have a committee figure out what to do with the 2 monuments. The money has been raised and a location has been found and they are being relocated soon.
@@magpietexas9475 I give you and your community many applause! That’s amazing to hear you were able to accomplish that and to possibly change so many other people’s minds!
You should be proud of the fact that you've changed so many minds about the Civil War, including my self. Even as a Northerner, everything that I've encountered growing up in the 90's was soaked in the Lost Cause Myth. Thank you
Same even in the 00s and early 10s too
You changed my mind dude. I was a lost-causer.
i hope youre still a secessionist from the old right
@@seamuswbiggerarmalite3379 what like should they be allowed to suceed from the union in modern day? Yea.
But i also feel like tge only way to do it ethically would be via a democratic vote. A vote i think would either not be allowed, or may even be tampered with by the US government.
So I’m not sure where that leaves me. Secession seems fine with me. But would not be allowed to happen
Only way i can see them being allowed to suceed is if the govetnment that would form in the new country was basicslly a puppet for the USA
@@Foxygrandpa1912 Being a small country and protected by the Yankee union and without an army, it could easily pay the "free" mental health of the population!
ye see how many crazy bstrds are in the street of LA? i see a video about that
DAMN!
@@Foxygrandpa1912 im talking about texas
if she leaves the country
probably the conservative states (louisiana alabama mississipi) like she would leave soon joining her, like the second confederation lol
It’s funny that the loosing side and a traitorous enemy is viewed with pride and as if they won and were not evil. And before anyone says I a northern liberal fool i am a conservative from WV
No free people of African descent, no United States, no victory in ww2, no civil rights movement what a perfect world of freedom for all ( this is sarcastic if you can’t tell )
Michael Walter you know that the slaves the confederates were fighting to keep were of African descent so the absence of slaves in the USA would have caused the civil war and confederacy to never be formed
@Michael WalterAt least you own up to being a racist piece of trash, good on you dude
@Michael Walter To be a traitor, one would have to first be on the same side. While we probably would be counted as being of the same "race" I would never wish to join a side on that basis. Indeed, I would fight such a side to the best of my ability.
@Michael Walter F**king tribes? What are you? A f**king cave man from the stone age? You're living thousands of years in the past you crusty old racist boomer hick. What a sad, miserable, insecure little man you are.
I like the implications in this video and a few others that Billy Yank is just actual Atun-Shei in costume, while Johnny Reb is just an actual confederate soldier who is inexplicably in the 2010s and 20s
Yeah, plus there's this lore that the first Johnny Reb died in the first video, and then was cloned in the 2nd. This is why in the first he states that he fought in the Civil War and owned slaves, while in later videos he says he was born somewhat recently and would have been an abolitionist had he been born back in those days.
Just so you know man, you changed my mind on the civil war. I used to be a flag waving confederate like my father, cause I didn’t know better, but your videos and a ton of research showed me I was on the wrong side of history. So what you said at the beginning, that no minds are ever changed, is not true in the slightest!
Your content fits better on the badhistory subreddit, one dedicated to tackling misconceptions in history, than the breadtube subreddit.
Hey, feel free to share it there!
Ya, breadtube is more or less based around socialist content, whereas his content would fit better on r/badhistroy
What the hell are you talking about you just ignore everything in this videoincluding all his world made debates and objections to stupid comments
Reddit is cringe in general
@@matthias1379 Pretty much everyone knows that.
The word tariff is not found in the Declaration of Causes of the Succeeding states The word Slavery is at the heart of every paragraph.
Here is what Mississippi "Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin. That we do not overstate the dangers to our institution, a reference to a few facts will sufficiently prove."
It kinda goes back further(not disagreeing) in the American history though. You see, economics don’t start whenever an event happens but when time starts and trade society is formed. In this case, the American economy was formed in the 1700s and the north was the only real sector of the country. It was built on slavery and later relied on large plantations to sustain the population with clothes and accessories(food doesn’t travel that far unless by boat). When the United States expanded for the Mississippi River, the origin of the country was the hotspot of economic and technological advances through trade and industrialization. Well when people expanded the country and were still using slaves along the Mississippi, New Orleans became a hotspot of trade for the south along the river and helped farmers live more reliable lifestyles that sustained their being and the ability to help the country grow. Now, the industrialization and new inventions of the northeast were sent throughout the country and helped fuel the rise of economies that relied on slavery which did help the south and the Great Plains become more reliable and helped build the country as a whole(also im not saying slavery was good). Now, during the French and Indian war, the French of southern Quebec and bordered Maine we’re forced to move away and they moved to the south and later became a part of the French and Spanish and other non British that were a part of the country. They also brought their own culture like Catholicism(even though it was already in Maryland) and a market for slavery from the slave triangle that came from the Brazilian route. At this time, the industrial era had helped many companies but it meant that poor people were suffering and the rich needed to continue to make money like from threading cotton into clothing. England’s own era needed people to find jobs like working the textile mills so cotton became a top export in the south along with tobacco, oranges, watermelon, strawberries, corn, and sugarcane. Because of this huge crop wanting, the south, which has some of the best farmland for these cash crops, became a calm and relaxing(in the sense of not much stress besides the act of farming) place to live. Slaves were not treated as bad as people think especially after Harriet Beecher Stowe’s novel Uncle Toms Cabin except by their own slave drivers(not masters) who were slaves themselves. Now, like the countries of Europe, people stick together if they are alike in culture and tradition so that is why you have at this time more Spanish on the east coast, French in the Mississippi coast, and Germans in the midlands above. Now, a lot of countries left the slave economics behind except for the south but that is also the philosophy of having cheap labor done in Chinese sweatshops. Also, while the north was becoming more monopolized, the south was able to live with less money and have more lively houses than people of the same class in the north. Next we get to the election of Lincoln and the politics beforehand which I don’t feel like talking about :)
@@lord_tylor6866 Your wall of text does not seem to have anything to do with Davids comment. His argument was that if Tariffs were integral to the succession you would have thought that at least one of the various politicians in the south who led the rebellions would have included some mention of it but instead the primary cause cited repeatedly was that of slavery itself. You are simply spouting nonsense and talking points that have no bearing of the topic and hoping one of them sticks or people surrender in the face of your wall of text. What does any of that have to do with the fact that tariffs one of the favorite revisionist causes of the civil war were not even mentioned as a reason for succession in any of the documents proclaiming their succession?
schrodingers cat mate I live in Mississippi and I know what our politicians have said. I literally said I wasn’t disagreeing to an extent. Yes the south generally seceded due to slavery but also in terms of the economics of the time. And so what if they did believe in slavery? Last I checked that was generally fine at the time from smaller countries like Portugal and Belgium. I’m not agreeing with it at all but if it was accepted by most then, if the south seceded due to slavery, it would explain why Lincoln was disliked by most of the country, including the north. After all, most of the north relied on cheap labor and even after the war, if the war was due to slavery, where was the north to help rebuild the south and gain support from them rather than letting the south dislike them, even currently?
@@lord_tylor6866 I am not sure what your point is here. So are you agreeing with me that the south seceded mostly because of slavery. I honestly do not care if you want to try to justify slavery in the confederacy it is between you and your conscious. But it is fine in the context of this debate as long as you admit it seceded because of slavery with all other issues being a distant second because that is the truth of the matter from the lips of the leaders of the confederacy.
You misunderstand the Norths need for cheap labor, they had more then they needed from immigration and the misconception that the north wanted to free the slaves so that they could be moved north to work in factories is another of the post war justifications of the lost cause. It simply was not true and most of the north was also racist just not to the extent that they endorsed the practice of slavery. While the war brought home the evils of slavery especially among the Union soldiers, the majority of the north were still not completely on board with complete abolition especially not if it meant blacks would be moving near them. Vice President Andrew Johnson for example.
As for why reconstruction was so botched there is a very simple reason. Lincoln was shot. That is basically the long and short of it. There were extensive plans for reconstruction, but that went out the window with Lincoln's death.
This is because it left Johnson in charge and he was racist even for the time who did not want either the Blacks to gain equality but was also strongly anti south and did not want the them to regain their former power so he simply told the south to set up their own governments did not interfere and allowed the Southern states to institute black codes that eventually became the Jim Crow laws ensuring that racial tensions remained high. He also did not actually follow through any of the reconstruction plans and actively blocked those he could. He hampered things so much he was impeached for it by his own party and only avoided conviction by a single vote but lost the nomination in the next election.
After that delays and with many of the same people from the confederacy back in charge and violent retaliations against blacks being reported in the papers the idea of giving the south help to rebuild lost most of it's popularity. The incoming governments paid less and less attention to the issue until it was dropped way before much of anything was accomplished.
If Lincoln had lived and if the south had come to terms with the idea of blacks being citizens it is likely that reconstruction would have been much more extensive. A parallel might be US reconstruction in Iraq at the height of the sectarian violence in the late 00s. People questioned if it was worth spending tax money on when the corruption and violence was that blatant.
schrodingers cat I have met few who truly know history as they should and you are indeed more learned than I. You have made quite good points. Although it has been very recent that I have come to terms with the fact that slavery is indeed the cause of secession, I do still believe it was due to economic reasons but nonetheless due to the loss of slavery. You, unlike most, have in fact provided evidence that I previously almost paid no attention to and I thank you for enlightening me. I do say that I believe you have won this little debate and at good cause. Although we shall both leave this with different opinions by little, I think it is personal educated and cultural sympathy’s of opinion to whichever side or opinion you are of. I thank you again for having a civil debate still my good sir and, if you are an American as well, I pray we still be in unity later and that another civilized soul is still if the norms for civil debate. I bid thee farewell and a good night from my state of Mississippi and wish you luck in life in the future. Maybe we will meet again in the comments of the same or difference of opinion but I will gladly accept a civil podium. Thank you again!
In my AP US History class, we learned that Tariffs and Taxes was one of the major causes of the Civil War, and that states' rights meant the "right to have slavery" and the "right to not be taxed by the central government." We also learned that the South was way past wrong about taxes because, as the Confederacy could not tax their states, they ran out of money incredibly quickly during the war and inflation rose by over 4000% as a result. Needless to say even if taxes were the cause of the war, the South was still very much in the wrong.
TBH, it wasn't even about the 'right to have slavery,' because that implies there was a realistic chance of the Union taking that right away from them. It was about Slaveowner Rights, specifically the right to have their ownership of other persons universally recognized and enforced by the state's monopoly on violence regardless of local laws. TBH, there's a better and more legitimate argument to be made that the war was about the right of Northern states to decide whether or not slavery was legal within their territory than about any specific Southern state's right to anything.
I mean, part of the issue was that even though the north was gonna do little to abolish slavery, it was becoming quickly apparent that there was going to be no pro-slave balance of power in congress as the union kept growing, meaning they were going to soon lose what political leverage they had. If they didn't secede, they were sentencing themselves to slow decay, and they were too prideful to accept that. If there was a "Lost Cause" it was that--fear of their shrinking power. "State's Rights" is often a smokescreen for that sort of thing.
State rights was about every state paying the same tax and the right for a sovereign state to leave the Union.
>In my AP US History class, we learned that Tariffs and Taxes was one of the major causes of the Civil War
Correct. They spent over a decade debating this issue. The Tariffs were a form of targeted taxation that enriched politicians and bankers in the north at the expense of the south. It wasn't that the northern political body was uniformly against slavery, as they clearly enjoyed the fruits of slave labor. The north was envious of the productivity of the south and the political power that came from that was envied.
>We also learned that the South was way past wrong about taxes because, as the Confederacy could not tax their states, they ran out of money incredibly quickly during the war and inflation rose by over 4000% as a result
Inflation of what? The USD? Confederate money? Can you explain precisely what you're referring to? A war of that scale would have created massive inflation whether or not there was a steady stream of taxes coming in, but we need to know what data you are using to make the point. Claiming it is Confederate tax policy is not a valid causation regardless, especially compared to the more practical reality that the South had less banking clout and liquid assets to mobilize and fund their war.
>Needless to say even if taxes were the cause of the war, the South was still very much in the wrong.
The South made slavery a reason for secession because of the social changes in the country already trending towards its abolition. The North antagonized the south into the conflict it became over tariffs. Both were wrong for bringing it to a violent resolution. The only people who were remotely correct were the abolitionists who promoted an end to slavery and to avoid war in the process of bringing it about. Europe had already started reforming on the subject without war.
The truth is that Lincoln did not want to end slavery when the war began. He only wanted to maintain economic control of the south. The jailing of journalists and judges were criminal acts, dark stains on his presidency that have been glossed over through patriotic historical revisionism. The selective abolition of slavery to create chaos in the bordering confederate states was evidence of the strategy to subdue the secession. This was the north's strategy to disrupt the southern economy.
That said, the south was far better off without Slavery than with it because it was an inefficient practice that chiefly benefited a minority of people, political elites. We have to understand the society that came before to understand why it was practiced in the first place: Serfdom. People living as serfs or indentured servants, on manors or plantations, provided a way of socializing losses and gains in the production of food and essentials that allowed communities to thrive and stem off hardships. The onset of the industrial revolution brought about major advancements in quality of life and transformed the country.
@@peppermintpig974 "The Tariffs were a form of targeted taxation that enriched politicians and bankers in the north at the expense of the south. It wasn't that the northern political body was uniformly against slavery, as they clearly enjoyed the fruits of slave labor."
Prove it. I want primary sources, specific laws, and documents from confederates stating they're seceding because of taxes. Lost causers always say this, but never have anything to back it up.
That opening perfectly encapsulates the history enthusiasts state of mind when it comes to this kind of thing. We see everyone with their blatantly wrong beliefs, and we know there's probably not much we can do to convince them otherwise, but God damnit we cannot stand by and let bad history persist without some kind of resistance!
“Bad history: can’t live with it, can’t kill it; but by God I’ll try!”
Full fledged series when...
On the UK point, another reason we might have been friendly with the CSA was because American-UK relations were rather crap at that point. It’s only in the last 120 years or so since relations have been mutually friendly.
Still butt hurt you lobsters burned down the white house. On the other hand I suppose it was due for renovation.
@Special Bronze unlike the south the colonies won, miraculously so.
@@artzilla3 *cough* France *cough*
And no, I don’t have Covid...
There were troops stationed at fort Michilimackinac near the Canadian border until the 1870s iirc.
@@sawyernorthrop4078 Even as late as the 1930’s both the UK and USA had plans to invade each other and that wasn’t even 20 years after fighting on the same side as each other in a world war.
Just going to drop a comment: this series did change my view and perspective on the civil war. In school I was taught that it was mostly northern aggression fueled by fear of the south leaving with all the resources, and that hellfire and brimstone was exclusively a northern tactic. My time spent attached to the military only served to strengthen that misconception.
As a southerner myself, I never understood the absolute obsession with the confederacy. It’s such a tiny sliver of our history, why make THAT you’re “heritage”
That's when America's founding principle of government deriving its just powers from the consent of the governed (and therefore having some kind of ultimate accountability to the people) died.
@@patrickcleburneuczjsxpmp9558 yep, enslaving other humans really did kill that notion, huh?
@@FortuitousOwl So you don't think there was ever even so much as a germ of anything real in the 1776 Declaration of Independence?
You can blame the United daughters of the confederacy
@@dkupke For the Declaration of Independence? You better check your timelines.
YES the long awaited next episode!
An actual historian linked the original video. It was fantastic so of course when I got the notification I dropped what I was doing. Keep putting Johnny Reb in the ground!
That’s pretty cool! Do you remember which historian?
@@zekdom Yeah its the RUclips channel cynical historian.
I just had a debate with my Grandfather about this exact angle of the civil war and I wish I'd watched this beforehand so I'd have been prepared.
Have you debated since?
Awww yeah, it’s always tough when you get information that’s more organized and well said after you have a debate with someone you know is wrong, but has a lot more experience in debating people.
Having KingCobra in the intro is a lovely touch
Just started supporting you on Patreon. Thanks for this important service. I really hope these videos are changing people. Also, you might as well own the breadtube label.
Who's here from The Cynical Historian?
Yep. It is gold casting more gold.
@@TheScandinavien Gold²
I will say I was once a bit of a "Lost Cause" person. but after watching some of your videos and reading the sources you cited, I've become "normal" again.
Good for you!
It's not even about "normal" it's about the capacity to examine the evidence and draw conclusions from that, rather than starting with the conclusion and searching for the evidence that maybe kinda supports it sort of.
Kudos to you for being the former, that's all we can really do as people; try to learn more, and understand the world a little better than we did yesterday.
For what it's worth- your videos, the Cynical Historian's videos, and Bonekemper's "The Myth of the Lost Cause" (2016) helped to break me from some lost cause revisionism. More than anything, your videos in which you read from the average soldier's diaries and the dedication speeches of the statues were the straw that broke the final camel's back. So you are making some difference.
I consider myself an "informed American" (as in I have an advanced degree from a good school & I'm pretty civically engaged) yet I had no idea this argument still existed. Maybe it's because I'm a northerner. We have a truly wild country.
Hey man don't feel bad, I didn't know what the Tuskegee experiment was until like last year. And I have a studied interest in racial justice.
@@ianbailey4213 It's more correctly called the Tuskegee study, not experiment, since no actual experimentation took place. It was a study on the effects of syphilis, but unlike what a lot of people think no one was actually deliberately infected with syphilis. Infected people were told they were being treated when they weren't, and they were seeing how syphilis progressed. Still disgusting.
2:30 ... consuming an entire 12 pack of natty light has virtually zero effect on the average southerner.
I loved sending your videos to fellow Marines who support the Lost Cause Myth and watching them twitch in face of the truth
You, sir, are hilarious. Nothing like arguing with yourself to teach history and take out Confederate sympathizers. You get a double thumbs up from a Yankee Ohioan.
Hell yeah I got so excited just seeing this in my feed
As a southerner with Confederate heritage, and I would say a bit of that pride, I thoroughly enjoy your commentary and mock discussion. It's spot on the type of argument, but I haven't heard anyone talk like that since my great grandparents. Southern dialect hasn't aged well. Your impression of old south is fantastic. But modern southern dialect compared to old south dialect is like comparing a home made Paula Dean dish to a Big Boy frozen dinner bought from Walmart.
I like the Old South accent it was more refined and upper-class.
Hey just saying these videos are super helpful for arming those of us with similar views to debate the racists that live in our states. As a floridian, I can't thank you enough for these videos. It's fantastic to have both racist talking points mentioned as well as a rebuttal those of us who are decent people can use against the nonsense points made. I agree it's not changing the views of southerners, but it is in fact helping us Lincolnites to debate the hate they spread. I really hope you keep making these because they're so crucial for so many different reasons man
That’s the real problem: you can argue with these imbeciles all you want and can, but they don’t give a shit. I would say it was frustrating, but that’s not even the half of it
@@colatf2 yeah but with lots of effort and empathy you can kind of break through their programming. As someone who grew up believeing in the American dream as a reality, and learning it never existed in my late teens, I can say it took a lot of effort by my fiance to show me how stuff really works. And if you can use facts plus empathy you can slowly change minds. Curiosity is powerful as hell so just plant little seeds and let them figure out on their own. We've gotta deprogram these people somehow, and this channel is a great weapon against that.
I agree!
I almost choked on my drink when you said ppl were calling you a breadtuber LMAO
Its really funny seeing Neo-Confederates trying to "Disprove" a video they don't like by calling it "breadtube". Never trust someone with a confederate flag in their profile picture.
the north fought natives during the war because southern tribes assumed that the confederates would give them nice things if they joined in seccssion as well as northern tribes thought they would recieve benefits if they joined the union. sadly niether was the case and native americans on both sides were screwed over southern tribes were hurt immensly over seccession and northern tribes lost a lot of young men over a false hope.
Also the "5 Civilized Tribes" upper classes were thoroughly assimilated into the Southern culture, and the rich had slaves. This turned into Civil Wars of their own; the slave holders joined the Confederacy, and the poorer classes supported the US. For the Cherokee, it crossed over with the blood feud between John Ross and the slaveholder Stand Watie. Ross supported Lincoln, and Watie was a Confederate general.
YES!!! Numbers and statistics! My favorite! MORE PLEASE!!!
You know you are a true Lincolnite, when you hear the dixie theme, but the lyrics in your head are the ones from the northern parodie of it.
I felt bad for Johnny Reb. I know hes just a cartoon. But i feel like he wants to be good. But he cants accept that his ancestors were fighting for slavery. Also i feel like johnny and billy are not enemies but want to be friends. Maybe a metaphor for the reunion of the north and south.
I stumbled on to your channel after touring a host of historical channels.
God I'm so glad I did. In the UK we've always accepted slavery being the cause of the Civil War stateside but seeing the arguments around it are amazing.
Hoping you do more stuff around the early colonists before the revolution. King Phillips War stuff was really really good.
“Breadtubers are *liberals* who make RUclips videos.”
Breadtubers: “Reeeee!!!!”
It did make me hurt
I mean just treat breadtube as entertainers that help educate, not as a solid community. Put your focus on offline stuff, friend
@@oscarstrokosz2986 It's more the misuse of the term liberal. Liberals are moderate right wing people, "breadtube" is anything that supports 90s Corbyn or lefter.
Montyfatcat I think the scientific term is idiot
“Demonic screeching”
0:27 He was not, in fact, done talking about the Civil War.
1:02
This man just predicted TNO memes before TNO was even announced
Oh nice, another episode of Half in the Haversack.
lol
Burnside is the key to all this. Because he's a more incompetent general than we've had before.
@@AtunSheiFilms This debate was a bigger disappointment than the Peninsula Campaign.
@@Gallipoli620 And while the Peninsula Campaign hanged itself in the bathroom of a gas station, this video will never go away.
Eh not my best jokey comment but I'm currently finishing off the bottle of jack from the video soooooo....
I was watching another one of your videos when the notification for this one came up. A sign you have great content and I need a life lol
Thanks for turning notifications on! Means a lot. There's a reason why RUclipsrs annoyingly beg people to do it... these days, even if you're subscribed to a channel, RUclips often just won't put a new upload in your recommendations. It's weird.
The amount of editing in this video to make the conversion flowing and flawlessly realistic had to have been staggering. That level of greatness is comparable to the souths ability to brainwash a quarter of the country's population . I love the fact there's at least 1 person who's bringing to light the monsters of the south who truly were. And that really butters my biscuit 👍👍👍
Everything I learned from McPherson, Foote, Catton as well as others, you've spoken about. As an Irishman, whenever the subject of your civil war comes up, I always tell the person involved that the Irish were as racist, if not more so than the Americans they sailed over to work and live alongside.
During the American Civil War the cotton workers in Manchester, UK, went on strike and refused to touch any cotton coming from the South. At that moment there was a severe depression in regard to cotton manufacturing and many were unemployed. Some were to die of starvation. After the Civil War Lincoln personally thanked the workers of Manchester for their principled stand. There are only two statues of Lincoln in England. One outside the Houses of Parliament, the other in Manchester.
These actually changed my mind and a bunch of my platoon mates mind, actually. So please, keep it up. You’re making a difference
Yo i would love to talk with you. I'm a norwegian, so i have an outside perspective on all this (favoring the north tho because they are closer too modern norway than the south so it's just natural for me to support them), and you seem like an open-minded southerner which one could have a good debate with.
4:40 “THE Jewish Confederate”? Implying there was only one?
As a Republican with a degree in political science that cringes when my Republican circles make the most absurd claims... I really appreciate this video!
The fact you only have 77K subscribers is simply put, confusing. These are incredibly well developed videos.
Yes, script, acting, setting ... it must be a lot effort.
Must drive his family mad