Exercise Scientist Critiques Mike Mentzer's Training
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 2 июн 2024
- The ALL NEW RP Hypertrophy App: rp.app/hypertrophy/code/RP_YO...
Become an RP channel member and get instant access to over 30 hrs of exclusive in-depth training and advanced science content! ➡️ / @renaissanceperiodization
0:00 Mike vs Mike Mentzer
1:28 High Intensity is Optimal
2:29 Larger muscle groups first
4:25 Static stretching
6:15 Full Range of Motion
10:56 Under 8 reps?
15:06 Low volume
17:02 High intensity and recovery
18:13 Your potential 
Спорт
![DRAGON BALL: Sparking! ZERO - Fused Warriors Trailer [BUDOKAI TENKAICHI Series]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/84p4Lvyfyes/mqdefault.jpg)
For UNCENSORED and super EXTENDED cuts of the Exercise Scientist plus hundreds of other videos, become a channel member! ruclips.net/channel/UCfQgsKhHjSyRLOp9mnffqVgjoin
Mike has no pants for channel members
Subscribe now
@@C0d0pshe must be really poor if he spends even his pants money on lambos
Mike is definitely addicted to twinks I mean Twinkies
Dr Mike, I just started doing the Thor routine. Tried walking barbell lunges for the 1st time, holy muscle activation. I do 245 high bar squats, I had to use 95lbs for the lunges. Absolutely insane pump, my quads feel like I had liquid metal injected into them.
Have you done a video on Dante Trudel’s DC Training Theory?
Mentzer is still so popular today, not because of the exaggerations he talked about, but because no one before him laid out the three cornerstones of bodybuilding training so clearly and comprehensibly - intensity, volume and recovery.
Volume is not needed, a warm up set or two then 1 set to total failure.
This doesn't just apply bodybuilding, but sports in general.
@@justwannabehappy6735 try and debunk it?lol
@@justwannabehappy6735 i am not a kid, go ahead and debunk the idea? Dorian yates must be wrong then as he stood by mikes HIT which is on the podcast, it works for many, you either did not rest enough or train to maximum failure.
@@NorthernIrelandConflictDorian yate didnt even follow mike mentzer HIT training, hell mike mentzer didnt even follow his own training, yate did train hard using some stuff taken from heavy duty training but overhall it was so different that you might actually just call his training high volume high intensity, no research ever found mentzer to be right, and if you dont believe me try it, do 6 month of mentzer training, see how much you gain, and after 6 month switch to proper high volume training, do between 10 and 20 set to failure per muscle group per week, 2 minute rest time between set, no superset or anything fancy, train each muscle 2-3 time a week, and see if mentzer is lying or every serious study about muscle hyperthrophy is
I was a phone client of Mike’s about 30 years ago and we talked about every 2 weeks on the phone, and exchanged the data from the workouts.
It’s incredible how strong you get, and how strong you continue to get. If your numbers start stalling, he would just have me take another couple of days off before the next workout for more recuperation, and it always worked. The last we spoke I was working out once every 10 days and the results were fantastic.
I miss the conversations with him and I’m glad people are still talking about him. You don’t have to agree with everything he said, but he was a brilliant man who took it very serious, and got his body to a world-class level. Glad to see him mentioned here. 💪💪💪
You're obviously lying.
How was mike as a person ?
Would he have recommended low volume for a beginner?
@@Mantastic-ho3vm Why is he lying? Is it not believable?
Personally since starting mentzer's style of training my reps have gone up almost every workout without fail! What's so hard to believe?
@@Ibrahim-fh6bn No evidence. Just dubious claims.
Mike mentzer had a better physique than Arnold Schwarzenegger .
But somehow he still don’t know what he’s talking about. Crazy world we living in.
Where are his 7 olympias then ? 😂
@@CarrotIsTooGoodpopularity contest. That's life. If you don't know, you better.
@@hunterwaits408 Arnold was just a better bodybuilder and had better genetics, greatest chest and biceps ever, maurice's physique is beaten by any top 5 classic physique these days, the guy had no back, trained like a lazy fuck but still got results because of all the steroids, was a depressed alcooholic, and cried about his loss to Arnold that was deserved.
@@CarrotIsTooGoodMaurice?
if you hate volume follow menzter. thats really what turned me on to him in my 20s. now im 49 and i still generally use his advise to keep weight lifting short and sweet and safe. all of my weight lifting injuries over the years have happened in the 4th or 5th set of over doing an exercise when i new i should have stopped.
I try and keep an eye out for when I have a really good pump, and when my reps start to get shaky.
If I've done enough that I'm shaky on the first rep of a set, especially if that happens after I get a good pump, I know that I've worked that muscle enough and call it.
Isnt that more of an issue of you not listening to your own body?
I did volume training for years and it wore my body down... when I switched to HIT style training, I had the best gains I've had in years... had little to no injuries, and had way more time to spend with friends and family.
@@JordanAlbert-fu9jz So in other words, you weren't training hard, and weren't recovering properly
seems you are lazy and hate working out.. pick up chess then
I dont know man , Ive been doing Mike Mentzer program for a year now, Iam 35 - been going to the gym since 16.
I have NEVER looked so buff and jacked in my entire life, and I feel great.
It feels really weird tho by only training every 5 days or so like 15-20 mins.
But it works for ME, so Iam sticking to it 🙏 .
I tried Mentzers stuff for like a month. Instantly saw results and I'm surprised that the "less is more" to a degree actually gave me more strength in a such a short amount of time.
Same bro
Same here and year older than you. Did 20kg gain in 1 year, NATTY! Half was HV then did HIT. HIT gains in strength eclipse the HV approach, look better, rest better, feel better, muscles more defined etc. I had 7 years prior experience and 10 years off. Mentzer is the way to go IMO just tailor for your body and use modern dieting. It's the GOAT approach.
Yup, same here. I’ve trained the modern higher volume methods for over 12 years with correct periodization, program variations, etc.
Threw out everything I thought I knew, read Mentzer’s books and followed to a T. Cut my training back to 2-3 times a week 1 set to ALL OUT balls to the wall failure and I’ve seen more progress in the past 4 months than in the past 2 years combined. It was hard for me to break away from the modern dogma as I have a science background and was almost married to methods Dr Mike spoke about but the results are undeniable. Everything Mentzer explained in his book just made sense scientifically. It’s clear from the recent criticisms that people still don’t truly understand how to train heavy duty style. Most people do not train any where close to the level of intensity Mentzer recommends. I’m making progress on every workout and will continue to follow the HIT method.
You probably look soft and fluffy, watery though.
You definitely should do part two. It's really cool to see those old and new paradigms collide!
Yes!!!
Absolutely love it
Fr
All this dude does is put popular peoples names in the headline for clicks to sell ad space he doesn’t know anything more than them his physique isn’t particularly impressive for having all the answers
@@libertarianpunk8558 💀 💀
The devil hates when you give away the secrets for free
best comment
Mike mentzer gave away all his training videos for free. Mike Israeltel charges crazy amounts to get his program. Mike mentzer looked 5 times better than him.
He wasn't politically correct, money wasn't his motive. This is why the fitness industry outed mentzer because his theology on fitness
@@user-nb8th3lt7fwow great info while this clown tries to make jokes while he look like he does 😅
@@user-nb8th3lt7fagreed 100%
@user-nb8th3lt7f Not to mention fat bloated and on chemical.
Mike was the goat and ahead of his time in so many of his methods... uncrowned Olimpia winner for sure. Rest in peace legend.
💯👌
He's dead!?
I’d love to see Dr. Mike review Tom Platz and his leg days. Would be funny to see what he thinks about Tom being hypnotized in the gym too
+1
I think Tom’s training is designed specifically for his mental illness and thus works perfectly 😂
Tom Platz has super good genetics (and PEDs) for legs. I don't think our leg days will be like Tom's even on a good day.
I once convinced my friend to do 10 sets of 20 squats cause that's what Tom Platz (supposedly) did. I didn't know what weights Tom used so I just loaded 100 kg for him.
He made it to the 14th rep of set 2, called me an asshole and went home. :'D
that was probably a quite meaningful workout for him, way better than finding a weight he could do that insane planned volume with@@TheBobes
I'm gonna need to digest this video over the course of my 14 day recovery period...
Im up to exercising once per month and i just call it Hitt
I’m growing more than ever training once a year. Boy was I wrong for training 5 days a week.
@@executiveinvestmentsyes you were wrong
@@evernew23 You're right. I do 6 times a week. I'm the only one who is right.
@@robbertag808 no not necessary
Mentzer is living rent free in this guy’s head.
Agreed 100%
He pretty much agreed to nearly everything he said. Have you seen the video
@@mekelopte7071 thumbnail takes a direct shot at him for being "outdated", very first exercise the straight bar bicep curl $h1ts on it immediately, did you watch the video?
Im sticking with Mike Mentzers method and no one else
how is that going for you? I just started yesterday with the ideal routine.
@@dextermorgan7764 been at it for about 5 months never going back , the moment you have that holy fk moment after not being in the gym for 8 days , you'll never forget it
thats why you gona be smaller and weaker than the people around you. Wana feel good about yourself doing shitty workouts? Go champ...
@@kgorilla2 that's a load of shit im 18 years in and the ones who rest get bigger unless your on gear. muscle take 2 months to full repair
2 years is better xD my god you must be special. BONE TAKE 6-8 WEEKS but you must be right. Everybody is wrong and you are right :D
Another video highlighting the difference between hypothesis and conclusion. I wish Mentzer had lived long enough to see exercise science answer some of his ideas.
Would've been great if he could've shut these so called "scientists" up who can not and never have known what true failure is.
Their subjects just don't go to failure.
They have videos on YT where they demonstrate going to failure and it's pathetic. Looks like 3-4 reps in the bank.
I'm wasting less time in the gym, having more results the Mentzer way and nothing can deny that. It's sustainable and I've got time left for other hobbies.
Obviously thick meatheads find it hard to adjust something they've done their whole lives.
His (super hardcore) fans seem to give him a bad reputation. He's incorrect on things he couldn't know. Has some clean takes on topics that were known about in his time.
He died like he trained, in a singular way.
His ideas? Science back then showed he was wrong. He knew it. And what ideas? He is talking like what he says is fact when it was complete bullshit.
Exactly. People act like he didnt have a time machine so hes a charlatan. Mike was the goat
I am still a big Mike mentzer fan. I read his books when I was 20.
His biggest contribution was to tell people to train hard but in short sessions. This countered the nonsense that Arnold was a purveyor of. Which was being in a gym 24 hours a week. Mike showed people you could get results on a few hours per week.
I like that Dr. Mike, despite his criticisms from a modern context, still gave a lot of credit to Jones/Mentzer.
Arnold selling recovery/protein..
Mentzer is telling people to destroy their bodies.
We do need both. Especially for newbie gains, take all the recovery you like or need, but do have a good one when you go to the gym. For pros on gear, yeah the sky's the limit. There is no single "best" program. Just what works for you.
I think another great thing that Mentzer helped bring to light is recovery. Not only is training 24h/week bad because of all the junk volume and risk of injury, but it also ignores the importance of proper recovery
Common misconception. Arnold wasn't in the gym 24 hours a week. He actually trained a fairly normal routine but overtrained during his contest prep because it burned fat and they believed at the time it gave them more detail. Sergio Oliva and Serge Nubret in particular both trained with more volume than Arnold.
Not outdated but expandable / adjustable
Sexy Flanders was ahead of his time and for sure today we know a few things better!
Sexy Flanders haha…
I’m old enough to have seem Mentzer compete. A couple years ago I revisited his philosophy. At my older age I have seen remarkable improvement. I credit it to allowing my old body time to heal between workouts. Less injury. Maybe not great for younger lifters, but as we age it is essential I believe
I’m 17 and his training philosophy absolutely works for all ages. I’ve been lifting for 3 years and following his methodology for one, this last year has brought my more substantially more progress than doing a standard routine. I definitely think doctor mike missed the mark on this one
Nope and nope.
I love how everyone in the comments who have tried Mentzer’s technique have good things to say about it. People who disagree with Mentzer should give it a go - and I mean properly: full stretch, long reps, perfect form, one set to failure for each exercise.
@@lachlan-mastermind6781 Yet they provide no evidence to their dubious claims when asked. Hit, despite being around for 5 decades, still has a very dismal success rate. It simply doesn't work.
@Mantastic-ho3vm The fact I haven't seen one person who's tried it say anything bad about it is fascinating. Especially with how divisive the Indsutry is, i can guarantee if it sucked i it would have a lot of anecdotes of it not working...
The fitness industry is going to have a field day with this one 💀
facts💀
They were having an anneurysm over the Sam Sulek one 💀and it wasnt harsh at all
So take scientific advice from 30yrs ago because it's Mike Mentzer, or take the updated version of science?
Yeah because no one 30 years ago knew what they were doing 🙄@josegarcia9650
They kinda knew, now we know a bit more.
I’m glad you recognize that Mike Mentzer is talking about this stuff 30-40 years ago, and how he didn’t have the amount of research available to him. It’s very easy to critique a 40 year old video with outdated ideas and mock it. But the thing that continues to draw me back to Mentzer is the pearls of wisdom that are sprinkled throughout his commentaries. We know the heavy duty program is mostly only suitable for initial gains or as an occasional curve ball to a higher volume training. Mentzer was very much right when it comes to diet and steady state cardio, well before the rest of the industry came along to those things.
Mike was a con artist and a meth user. He built his physique with high volume training like everyone else in that time. I'm sure every body builder from then had more than a couple things right.
@@BennyParcher lol
@@BennyParcher Go to your music collection or maybe your book shelf, and throw away all of the creations made by guys on opium, meth, cocaine. See how much is left. The meth thing is irrelevant. I don’t look at Thomas Edison’s career and think, “forget all these revolutionary innovations, the man was on coke.”
@@marcpjoynerLike Edison, Mike stole his ideas from others and used them to profit
@@BennyParcherone sentence in and you’re already lying 😂 do you know the difference between methamphetamines and amphetamines which Menzter was prescribed lmao
ill take mentzer's teaching
Thanks for covering the video, I’ve recently became sort of a fanboy of Mike’s philosophy and to me the best thing he’s taught me is how important recovery is. There’s still learning room for learning new updated information & criticism of course, so thank you & definitely go over the other video!
I’m following Metzer’s training method. I did 1 set of curls today, and now I’ll rest 7 months before doing curls again
7 months not enough that overtraining !
I usually wait a year. And holy shit I’m growing more than ever now.
BRO 7 YEARS AT LEAST
You win the internet today.
Hyperbole does not make a good argument. I have taken 7 days off between arm days for the last two months and in that 6 weeks i have seen noticeable growth in my arms and have increased the weight I can move week over week. That is good enough for me.
That part about load progression instead of adding a rep was a lightbulb moment for me. Thank you Dr. Mike, I can look past your many addictions out of respect for the knowledge you have dispensed
Same. I've been stuck trying to add a rep but one thing I haven't tried is actually adding a tiny 2.5 or 5lbs plate. Gonna try it soon after my rest days
You can also just put less weight on the bar and then you can continue adding reps no problem.
though one could argue that in the example he gave it would have been wiser to multiply 1.23 by the number of reps
@Ashok_Regiment yeah exactly, a percentage is probably not the right way of looking at it. Adding a 405 rep is lifting 405lbs more, adding 5lbs to every rep is only adding 30lbs
I was struggling as a lean person. I tried Weider's method, believing working out for ages in the gym was the best. Then I met someone in the gym who had an amazing body and never spent more than 30 mins in the gym, (he did underwear modelling). I asked him what he did. He put me on to Mike Mentzer. After following Mentzer's basic routine, I grew more in that first month than any other time in training. Mentzer's method definitely works for me.
The comments tell me someone somewhere has gone wrong on the science because it's the same for me 1h every 5 days and my strength is better then ever
Don’t know how I just found your stuff but great videos! Keep em coming!
I bought Mike's books when he 1st published them. It was through mail order. He even sent a beautiful signed black and white 8x10 photo of his classic pose. I was a teenager and quickly dove into his training methodology. It was an amazing experience. The main problem I kept having was overtraining in 6-8 weeks. I would then stop working out and my momentum was lost. Over the years, I have continued to use certain aspects of HIT combined with many of the things pointed out in this video. Logging my workouts have been the greatest help in avoiding overtraining, injury, or stagnation. Good job pointing out the pros and cons.
Bump because mail order is so crucial to understanding the era. It's like that era's Patreon. Every main guy from this era has a "system" because that's how you put a tiny ad in the back of a magazine to get people to send you money. That doesn't mean the system was bad. But it was packaged with an audience in mind. Even if the science hadn't changed, if Mentzer was alive today and talking to today's audience where gym culture is so much more common, he'd package it a different way.
There's no way you can over train on hit. It's severely lacking in volume which is half its problem
Take a week off of training after 6 weeks and deload to 75% max poundages the first week back.
Then push hard for another 6 weeks, repeat.
You didn’t overtrain, most likely. Extremely rare that it is ever the case. You just lost drive.
@@MealTeam6 Which comes from overtraining.
Dr. Mike’s explanation on why it’s probably better to add weight incrementally and keeping the same reps vs keeping the same weight and trying to add another rep is an excellent example of why I watch this channel.
That's fair for large muscle groups. For small and isolated like shoulders, calves, biceps, forearms is preferable to add reps
@@EVR1ALwhy
@EVR1AL youre right, Dr Mike said about it in this video as well
@@ottolindemark6082
Because. That's why.
Depends on the muscle and rep range and how advanced you are, but yes this is often easier
Just found your channel 😃 enjoying your videos! 100% want part 2 to this one 👍
I tried his method on Friday and today Sunday I can feel muscles I never felt before and can barely move my arms. I've been working out since 15 and I'm 51. His method works at least for me.
What his his method?
Are we not gonna talk about that sick slide transition at 2:29? Man was truly an innovator in all aspects
Thats a High Intensity Transition taken to failure
Innovator or what? Hit was invented by Arthur jones in the first place. Mentzer was a fraud.
lmao@@jonathanmoncada3177
I hope you are joking, because it was a nice joke 😂😂
wtf was the transition lmao
As a Natural... I'm With Mentzer... I know he Wasn't Natural... But his advice has worked for me the Best... Because i think for Naturals the Recovery Time Needed is much Greater... 2-4 Days of Rest between each session... and extremely brief and Intense when you do train has worked the best for me... Plus this video of Mentzer is from like 1978 when he was about 28 years old... The stuff he put out about 20 years later when he was a trainer is much more valuable i think
Yeah, I would like to see the second half of this video on Mike. Thanks!
Ive been training for 4 years now. On year 3 I started adapting Mike Mentzers routine. In my first 2 MONTHS of doing 3 days a week 1 set a body part 4-5 exercises, I put on over 150 pounds on my leg extension. Never in my life of training 6x a week have I ever seen such a thing. On all other bodyparts I continued to get stronger and stronger as-well. His method 100% works, I would advise anyone who's looking to switch up their routine to train the Mentzer way.
Mikes videos feel like a warm hug to my soul
Which Mike? Lol.
😂
@@JanKenTribeWorldWide the handsome bald one
It is a known fact that listening to Rammstein during your workouts increases muscle hypertrophy by 69,420%
Thanks! I did not know that.
System of a down 69,69%
Did i say system? I meant venga boys
🤘🤘🤘
Du....du hast....+25lbs on a deadlift
Amazing video, i'm a big fan of Mike Mentzer and Dr.Mike show how this type of training still works those days.
Doc, You really are awesome. Thank's, for all the great advice!!!!!
Dr. Mike the kind of guy that loves upsetting as many diehard fanbases as possible
Athlean X is gearing up for war rn
And I am here for it!!
Yep...and riding on other's people fame...........
PATHETIC LITTLE "MAN" !!
No, at this point its just click bait and a comment trap. We're all falling for it every time. If Metzner So outdated why does RP/Isreatel and a few other fitness influencers go out of their way To disprove Metzner, other than the fact that it yields a shit ton of likes And comments?? 🤷♂️
@@danInRealife
You sound like a real loser, danny.
That damn clip of Kyriakos training grip...We are not worthy. Holy. Hell.
Mentzers philosophy in training is working for me and I’m a hard gainer I notice somewhat of a difference after 3 months compared to the last 6 years and doing less just more intense
Same here. It works, just tailor it for your body. I did 20kg in one year, about half of that was on HIT and I got much stronger, faster on HIT than HV.
Please do part 2. This was amazing video
14:16 I really liked the mathematical explanation of why sometimes it’s better to add weight than reps.
The difficulty increase is even more than what Dr. Mike explained. The percent increase from 6 to 7 reps is +16.67% and actually proves his point further
@@lucaalexicevaer-corey9167 exactly this. The math is a bit wrong in the video. When adding one rep to 6 its actually 16,67% (1/6*100%=16,67%) more, not 14% that was said in the video. Going from 6 to 7 is 16,67% more, but going from 7 to 6 is 14% less (1/7*100%=14,29%).
You can also just do higher reps with less weight. Going from 20 to 21 reps for example, is only a 5% increase.
@@davidnordqvist5749 yeah he was talking about lower reps and higher weight
depends on the weight you are using for the repetitions
I love this path you guys are going on. As a gym nerd myself it’s so satisfying seeing you critiquing these guys.
You enjoy them sending critique to dead men that cannot defend themselves?
Different Epoch.
Like calling Newton a dumbass because Einstein "disproved" his aether theory
I am SO glad you made this video. I really have been seeing so many mentzer clips making me rethink. Especially the one where he goes your muscles are only working at 20% on ur first rep of 10 lmao
It has absolutely worked for me. As.a physician, there are many peer reviewed journals.supporting less is better.
The problem with a lot of Mikes' ideas was that he simply didn't live in a time with as advanced knowledge as we have now.
Mike would never have listened to anything involving frequency . He was so extremely single minded truly believing advanced bodybuilders shouldn’t train more then once every 4-13 days
@@josephohrablo4866 Dorian Yates attributed his winning the olympia to Mentzer. Tom Platz who had arguably the greatest legs in bodybuilding said he would only train legs a few times a month because with the intensity he trained with it was all he could handle.
I'll also add that Yates' philosophy molded from Mentzer's is volume didn't matter as long as you went to failure. Yates would do 3 sets for an exercise and would go to failure at the end. It worked for him obviously. I think the bigger picture here is that everyone is different and different philosophies work better or less for different people.
@@Matt34677almost anything works when your a pro bodybuilder and your genetics are in the 1% of the 1%
@@Matt34677 Yate's training is a much more refined version of HIT than Mike's, especially nowadays as Dorian is much more focused on safe repetitions and using perfect form.
It's annoying to see Mentzer's approach suck up all the HIT oxygen in the room as it ignores decades of progression and refinement, and I can't eyeroll hard enough at the 'Imagine if Mike Mentzer had access to todays science aka Brad Schoenfeld's 52 set studies!' posts.
But he knew enough then but just chose to be dismissive for the sake of being contrary to sell his books and programs.
Personally what i took and absorbed from HIT is to take as much time as needed to fully recover between workouts instead of having a fixed routine, either by moving the workouts or by regulating the volume (in other words: avoid overtraining).
As a principle, every information should be taken with a grain of salt, regardless of its source.
Thanks for your content 👍🏼 I would like to see the other half of the video review. Have you ever reviewed Vince Giranda?
Yes Sir, definition do a part 2. Great commentary. Thanks!🕶🤙🏽
This is the video I've been waiting for for so long. I'm so excited to see the angry comments from people who've been lifting for 3 months
Well 3 decades here, but I'm still a bit cheesed off. Dr Mike can make as many videos on this as wants, but enough people have progressed on this (at a more advanced level, but also not) to make it an exercise in pointlessness.
“nah bro one set is all you need. In my 2 minutes of lifting ive made such fast progression, surely it’s from listening to mike mentzer and not at all to do with being a novice lifter. Big volume shill”
@@brennand933
Nobody says that lmao you utterly autistic orangutan
@@baronmeduseNo one says you can’t progress on HIT. But you can potentially make even more gains scaling up from your minimum effective to maximum recoverable volume, deloading, resensitizing yourself to volume, and repeating the process meso after meso. Modern exercise science is pretty cool stuff if you give it a chance :)
@@baronmedusefacts. I have trained for 2 years. Did mike’s style for the last 3 months. Saw a significant improvement. Will stick to it
My conspiracy theory is that nobody who likes Mike Mentzer doesn't actually does the 'one set is all you need' philosophy and they definitely don't take 4-5 days of rest afterwards. It's more about following this guy who was a bodybuilder and a smart guy who provided some arguments for his training methods and makes people feel strong for going to failure. But nobody actually follows what he said to the letter
Nobody doesn't actually does, holy hell.
HIT is "effective" and is quite effective for the amount of time actually spent in the gym, but it is not the most effective method per unit of absolute time passing.
It's great if you literally have 2 hours a week to work out and need to squeeze in as much stimulus as possible within that limited time frame.
But as soon as you have time to hit the same muscle group even twice a week, it's better to take a more sensible approach.
As such, I've got my core full body workout rountines of Squat/Rows/Bench and DL/Pulldowns/OHP. I follow a pretty standard 3x5-12 rep routine, 2x a week for these exercises.
But if I've got juice in the tank and 5 minutes at the end of a workout, hell yell I'll blast out a 1-set beyond failure HIT isolation exercise.
People don't realize that he advocated for a week + rest after a certain amount of progress. How many of his followers actually do that
I'm doing his method from his last book right now. I'm loving the intensity, but I am definitely recovering faster than I thought and will up the frequency. I'm enjoying the experience but will definitely make adjustments.
In reading a couple of books about Heavy Duty Training, the 4-5 days of rest isn’t applicable to every person. Mike actually states this in some of his interviews. Some people can recover faster from exercise than others so his form of high intensity training should be modified depending on how each individual feels. Watching reels or tik tok clips don’t give people all the information. I would implore anyone interested in HIT to read Mike Mentzer’s and John Little’s books to learn more about how to train to your individual needs.
Did you ever decide to do a part 2 of this? Also really enjoy the content, starting to dive into it
People put so much effort into making it seem like Mike didn't know what he was talking about. I don't get it. He looked awesome & competed at the highest level. He provided very sound reasoning for his arguments. He achieved more than most ever will. Are they jealous of his physique? What else is there to be upset about? Why are there so many comments talking about how effective Mike's programming is? Something isn't right.
Mike advocated this: Principles.
That's why he's popular.
The application of them even he changed over time, mostly from anecdotal, personal experience (as he didn't have access to University research departments which weren't interested in his theories whilst he was alive).
But now that Mike Mentzer fans got into those Universities during the 00s and 10s and 20s, they did the research and his principles are being proven correct:
- Full ROM
- Slow Negatives
- Eliminating momentum
- Training to Failure
- Lower volume
- The importance of recovery and less frequency
- The need for a balanced diet of all 3 macro-nutrients
These and many more are being proven correct.
Whilst other Principles are being proven incorrect:
- Pre-exhaustion being necessary for maximum hypertrophy (No difference)
- Overlapping being a negative (it can be beneficial)
- Static Holds in the fully contracted position being the most productive part of a Rep (it's actually resistance in the stretched position).
perfect summation
his full rom beliefs are technically being proven incorrect Dr. Mike brings that up in the video. His philosophy of training to failure isn't right, neither is low volume, and less frequency. There's a certain amount of volume and frequency that's the most efficient for hypertrophy and it isn't at all what Mentzer preached.
@@ethann5410 Wrong on all levels.
I have summed up Mike's principles but if you read him, you'll see the reasons behind it.
1) The whole "stretched partials" is just a new fad of exercise scientists with a bit of research behind them.
You know what was the fad of the early 2010s being recommended by "scientists" and backed up by the latest "research"? Partials...in the fully contracted position.
And the 2000s? Squats...on unstable surfaces (bosu balls).
And the 90s? Static Holds...a new decade, a new fad by the sports sciences selling you their training protocol...
And that's the point: from the 50s onwards, college professors in sports departments have come up with their marketable fad, done research that confirms it, and sell it.
The stretched partials guy (I forget his name) is selling programs using them...and the research? Done...by himself.
That's the degenerate sickness of the sport exercise world: everyone is twisting the research to prove the thing they sell is "optimum".
Go to any year or any decade since the 50s, and you'll see the latest "research backed" training style.
Mike said Full Rom was necessary as that is the only way a trained can know they are maximising muscle recruitment. If doing partials: how can yoy be sure as a trainee you've got the correct degrees? And how do you keep that during each Rep as you exhaust?
You can't. So for long term, consistent growth, yoy can ensure every muscle is recruited and worked through the most productive parts of the Rep through full ROM (not to mention the decades of research showing full ROM is better for Tendon growth, injury prevention, hypertrophy and functional strength. "New" research by self-interested "Doctors" selling a product doesn't wipe it away).
2) Training to Failure: as Mike said, it is the only way a trainee can know they reached the necessary intensity freshold to maximise growth.
How can you tell you are truly left with 2 Reps in reserve? Or 3? You can't. Therefore, going to Failure guarantees the correct intensity is there.
And like for like: Failure is superior to RIR (Reps in reserve) Training. Doing 3 sets to Failure is superior to 3 sets with 3 RIR.
So he's not only technically correct with his principles, but on a practicability and application level (training principles and programs are useless if they can't be implemented and maintained), he's even more correct.
@@ethann5410 Mentzer preached doing the least amount of volume (he says it as work in his videos) you can possibly do for the most amount of intensity to maximize muscle growth. He also says "One set per exercise" so that doesnt close out the fact that you can have 2 for the same muscle group. He infact did have 2 exercises for some muscle groups in his training plans.
Wow, great summary. I need to pick your brain! Haha thanks for shitting on my pre-exhaust methods. I use them for chest for my bad shoulder, and sometimes quads and or hamstrings on leg day.
For chest it’s cable flys and legs it’s extensions and curls.
And now I’m confusing myself and thinking “is what I’m stating really a pre-exhaust method or just warming up?” How do I know the difference? Please help, thanks.
PS - I’d know and could redeem but all my magazines from the late 90’s-2014 got stolen and I had almost every muscleman, M&F, Flex, & MD, and some Ironman. I learned a lot and also forgot a lot from them magazines. You can’t get that stuff no more….
Your point about potential is so true, and it's sad to see nobody in the comments talking about it. There are so many 130 lb lifters who will never compete who complain about their genetics or how much more important steroids/genetics/etc supposedly are when they're barely out of the novice phase
Exactly lol either do it and don't complain or quit and don't complain lol.
I mean its usually very easy to see if you have potential to be great in something in the very early stages, so im sure alot of people recognise that they will never be Mr Olympia or WR holders so don't feel the desire to compete and just choose to train as a hobby
@@calumbell2276 Strongly disagree. If you're further away you're not able to gauge what you're going to look like. At bare minimum 3 years of solid training is necessary to know your potential. Most people slack off here and there or take years to get serious so it's more like 5-10 years for most people. No 130 lb guy has ever been close to his natty potential.
The problem is always blaming genetics instead of focusing on getting better. Your back isn't small bc of genetics u probably can't feel shit or/and don't progressively get stronger, that's fucking it.
I'm 47 following Mike training routine I'm happy with that and I learnt more
Love this guy, even though I don't workout only once every 4 days. Like you said, there is a lot to learn with Mentzer if you don't just blindly follow everything. Dorian Yates learned a lot from him and became a 6x Mr Olympia
Dorian just dispelled that myth. Mike did not train him. Dorian did his own thing. There's a new interview up with him stating that.
@@anabolicbodybuildinggive me the link
@@ClashergodClashergod Did Mike Mentzer Train Dorian Yates?
ruclips.net/video/s4HZtKqw8Jk/видео.html
Did Mike Mentzer Train Dorian Yates?
ruclips.net/video/s4HZtKqw8Jk/видео.html
Bingo, read between the lines and go for understanding. Both him and his brothers deaths are very suspicious, due to the face that they were stirring the pot in the communit. Stir the pot in a big $$$$ industry and you make big enemies
Please review more Mentzer. I’m 50 this year. I played football and powerlifted in college and have lifted fairly consistently across my life. I’ve always been drawn to Mentzer and Yates because, I think, it just feels great to go balls to the wall on a few sets rather than do endurance sessions for hours at a time. And I’m a busy dad and husband and educator, so I don’t have a ton of time anyway. But the limitations of this approach are apparent, and I deeply value your content for how to supplement this approach. And you convinced me about full ROM on leg exercises, so there’s that.
One special request: Some day I would love a series from you on how old farts like me should train.
Thanks for all you do. I give you a 0/10 rating on bullshit, and a 10/10 on potty humor.
You want to stay injury free, avoid the slow grinding up reps or worse pushing to the wall. That type of lifting has wrecked more friends over the years preventing them from going strong into the 40's 50' 60's....This from an injury free lifter of 40 yrs, currently in his late 50's Finish your workouts feeling strong not spent and you will stay on the path of progression.
While it's not neccessary to progress, more muscular endurance does benefit your ability to handle heavy loads more consistently. As for cardio and mobility, as well as a reduction in any above extreme intensity, these are vital. Overall focus more on warming up and mastering form. Injuries are the bane of all lifters and can end a lifting career. Nothing wrong with lifting more wisely. True muscle building comes from intellectual and methodical experiments, more so than from physical might and enduring tolerance. But I'm sure this is all information you already value.
@@sword-and-shield great words. Finish your training feeling strong not spent. Longetivity is definitely important
@@Artaxerxes. Not mine but the great Bill Pearl, but its adoption was MY missing puzzle link to consistent steady progress over my lifting lifetime. I was never looking for short cuts or hacks, because there are none for naturals.
@@Artaxerxes. If you do not spent you do not gain, simple as that. How much you give out is proportional of how much you will be given back.
I’m new to resistance training and I wanted to do some research. I’m glad I found the right place.
Mike Mentzer was a genius ahead of his time 🔥
Mike Mentzer was a man of conviction logic and integrity. He had the most comprehensive bodybuilding program for his time. He was educated on the workings of the body and went to Maryland U as a pre med student. He was an intellectual. He was the extreme opposite of the marathon training style of the time and he simplified and helped people sort out the bs that was going around with his articulate & eloquent nature.
No, he had a few things right but most of it was pure bs, especially failure as flipping the switch to growth.
U must be small@@sword-and-shield
He most definitely did NOT have the most comprehensive program for his time, that title belongs to literally any other Soviet-Russian training textbook LOL
@@TheOneMastodon Fact, just wish I had access then.
@@MrSpartan117fan You post like a 12yr old, better grow your small intellect first. Worse you talk about small, but are blind to your own pic deficiencies. Its like you just got started huh.
Definitely do a part 2 and 3, Mike modified his program alot from this older video. Please critique his "ideal routine " which think he trained Tom Platz and Yates with.
His later program has a routine with deadlidlfts last and doing the compound exercise after the isolation, so he threw the largest to smallest idea out later on. So just critiquing this older doesn't show the whole picture and his revision of his program.
Correct.
thanks for the clarification
Well said. But he still only did 1 or 2 exercise per muscle; which has me wondering if he did more exercises for back and legs and less for arms and chest because of the size of the muscles and the way they all work together? I like his style but want more exercises. A warm up or 2 per exercise and 1 all out to failure set and do 2-4 movements per muscle; be it 1 compound and 1 isolation and more if needed.
Lastly; I need help with the ranges of failure. Dr mike likes 1 rep in reserve or 1rr or whatever it’s abbreviated as. And Mentzer calls for failure bjt what type of failure? There’s 3 or 4 levels? I forgot all this shit. Contractile, absolute, momentary, etc. so just wondering and speculating that each type of failure serves a purpose and not created equally. Thanks
I heard him call tom p an 'ass' for doing the O the year the others boycottedit..1981....did TP learn about politix at that show...mike trained TP after TPs muscle tear...i saw them at Golds V.
how is HIT training outdated but lifting every day 5 or 6 times a week is not???
Most of these RUclips fitness guys and or personal trainers are using Mike's teachings TODAY just different in delivery. You can't argue with science or facts. Mike understood both.
I think Mike Mentzer was more correct in his earlier years. He still said one set to failure, but his protocol for it was different. Lets use chest for example: You'd warm up then you'd do a pre-exhaust set for pecs. You only want one working set, but you will atleast have one warmup set somewhere close to your top set that is likely atleast slightly stimulative, then hit your RPE 9.5 set of chestflies, before doing a warmup set close to your "one" bench/inclinepress/chest dips set. Since that is your main compound you would also have a rest-pause amrap at the end. So effectively you would for chest have: 12x1 chest flies, 8x1 chest flies, 10-8x1 chest press, 6-8x1 chest press and then a few quick sets of 1-2 reps with 10 sec breaks. So about five sets of chest in total.
lol. Mike never did 1 set to failure. He grew his body with volume training like everyone else.
@@executiveinvestments AND frequency, given he built his physique doing full body 3/4 times a week
@@papaspaulding yep. His one set bullshit was a scam he used to promote his personal training business. Mike, do as I say not as I do, fraud Mentzer.
@executiveinvestments arnie also built his body powerlifting and yet we dont follow that but we follow his volume nonsense he got when he areived on usa and got all the size he would need already
@@DarkoFitCoach who is “we”? And no Arnold didn’t get his size from power lift training. That’s complete nonsense. Every bodybuilder in history volume trains. Even ur idol mentzer volume trained.
3:13
LOOL that side by side comparison of younger Mike and Kiriakos is just fire!
It’ll never be outdated it works for me.
I’ve been doing mikes system and my body has changed so much it’s crazy and I’ve been lifting since I was 16 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
What I’m saying been lifting since I was 13 years old and his techniques are solid. I think what’s different is peoples diet processed oil has destroyed people’s hormones so they will never achieve peak fitness as fast as before
You touched it briefly without giving it the recognition it deserves and it's biggest advantage even in mordern lifting : Simplicity. You dont have to think too hard or know much.
The amount of people screwing their training up today with * splits is staggering.
HIT for the simplicity and still getting it done.
RP has been "slaying sacred cows" 🐄 and I'm all "here for it"
Mentzer is the GOAT, his body proves his methods work
Great tip for adding small amounts of weight at the same rep range instead of aiming for going up in reps, I’m gonna have to try that out.
I’ve noticed my rep progression starting to slow down so I’d probably be saving a lot of time making more gains if I just added small amounts of weight
Love that you're covering this. I'm still wondering why there's this sudden resurgence of Mentzer.
Honestly I think it's because people want quick and easy fixes. Ice baths! Just one intense set and you're done!
@@BrofUJuabsolutely this.
Ice baths are real, especially if injuries are in the equation. But yeah, most are lazy and impatient. Cheers. @@BrofUJu
@@BrofUJu easy?
A lot of people will use any excuse to spend as little time as possible in the gym.
Would be interesting to see a breakdown from your perspective of different bodybuilding eras.
Great video!!!!
mentzer was a training genius. say what you will about him, but he intuitively broke down the basis for lifting. he did this in the 70s with limited knowledge before him. it feels wrong to criticize him when you have 55 years of studies on him. ill always respect the man,
Would like the critique of the second half. Let’s get with it
Please do part two! I'll watch and upvote!
I've tried a bunch of different programs, but the one that really worked for me is Mike Manser's Heavy Duty program. It's a shame to see people criticizing someone who has genuinely helped others. For me, it's the best program, and I'll never switch.
I believe that everyone's body and metabolism is different so what works for one person does not necessarily work for another.. outdated by today's gummed up standards perhaps but when I first started out years ago it worked for me and 50 years later it still works for me. I really enjoy your videos and your flat out, down to earth knowledge and insight. Everyone through trial and error finds out what is best for their body type. Keep on sluggin' and hitting them out of the park!
I'd really like to see a part 2 of this video, Mentzer had such a unique style of everything that it's interesting to see his training styles almost modernized
Trained your way twice Mike, and both times I could barely walk after.
Quads were on fire.
Felt like I was working muscles I didnt even know I had.
Thanks from Australia.
which mike?
@@ganktWizowski.
You didn't take Enough time to gain
I really like Mike Mentzers philosophy . I believe there is plenty of room for High Intensity and High volume training depending on what your goal is. And just being a guy i like the high reps from time to time. God Bless everyone and enjoy your time training.
We NEED that Mike mentzer part 2 video! PLEASE doctor!!!!!!!!!🙏🏼🙏🏼
You asked, I answer: review, review, review the other half of the video, and review the other lifters.
I'm 4 or 5 posts into this channel now and loving it. Keep it coming please because it's both entertaining and I am genuinely thinking and learning from the commentary.
Would love it if you did part 2 of this, and/or even a series of reviews on 80s weightlifting videos in general. I have a deep spiritual need to see more of those 80s hairstyles, gym fashions, & facial hair (which also happen to be my guesses of what Dr. Mike is addicted to).
BETA MALE
Critique HIT all you want but it helped me get over plateaus and I saw more gains with it than with marathon training sessions. I first did a phone consulting session with Mentzer back in 1992-93 and even though I only paid for 30 minutes Mike gave me 50 minutes of great advice that saved me a lot of money on supplements and wasting time being in the gym too often and for too long. I think HIT stands the test of time.
The illustration around 14:11 was extremely insightful, it all makes sense now! I started off with the Mentzer strategy of always increasing reps, it worked well early on. I was skeptical when I first heard Dr. Mike talk about increasing weight over time instead (I listened anyway). Now it makes sense on a heavy compound like squat or bench to increase weight instead because it is easier to add weight instead of even just one more rep.
Dr. Mike's insights into progressing reps are golden. I have been working to increase my reps on weighted pull ups. I was stuck at 6 reps on my top (heaviest weight) set for weeks and weeks, and one day while walking out of the gym, I realized that, in trying to go from 6 to 7 reps at my top weight, I was going for a 16.667% increase! (7 is 1.1667 of 6.) So I wasn't necessarily stagnating. I just couldn't expect a sudden 16.667% increase (especially at my age and experience level). That realization was liberating. With that insight, I could now try to improve my performance of whatever reps (usually 6) I was doing each time, or microload the weights.
That's a silly way to look at strength gains. I'm astonished Dr Mike actually said that. Do you really think if I used to perform 1rep at 100kg and then I can do a second, I'm now 100% stronger? That's pretty ridiculous. The best way to compare is to convert reps and weights to 1-rep maxes and compare the 1-rep max. 2 reps on 100kg is equivalent to 1 rep for about 106kg, which is a pretty decent jump of 6%. After about 5 reps, being able to add a rep is closer to 2.5% stronger. (There are various ways to estimate 1-rep max which you can google around for, but they're all ballpark.)
@@danieltemelkovski9828 Nobody said you'd be a 100% STRONGER. I (am presumably Dr. Mike) was referring to percentage increase in REPs, not strength. But I bet you feel ingenious for erecting and knocking down a straw man. Oh and by the way, passed the beginner stage even a 2.5% strength gain can take months, if not years, so even on your misstatement of what we are talking about, your point is off-base.
@@adamsloane1748 Hey, I was just trying to help you wrap your head around making comparisons of effort across differing rep numbers. But it sounds like you've already got it worked out or are more interesting in white knighting Dr Mike like a good little fanboy, so knock yourself out.
I was stuck on weighted pullups for months too until I tried mentzer's approach. Now I train pullups for fifteen minutes once every twelve days and my reps go up almost every workout. It's funny how dr mike says the science is against mentzer but for someone like myself and many others, using mentzer's principles of low volume high intensity is what worked wonders for us.
@@Ibrahim-fh6bnas someone interested in weighted pull-ups, what’s your split? What were your numbers before and how did they progress using Menzter’s method?
Rags Mentzer for saying optimal
And then plugs his own app with “most effective” come on man
Israetel is a self-involved narc. Doucette got that right.
Dr. Nugget can early see above the desk he is sitting at
I have found that people who do higher volume training can't comprehend simple logic.
There's no way on GOD'S green earth. You can extrapolate accurate information from a 6-8 week study. It's never going to happen. The reason you will never see long-term studies is its quite expensive to pay each participant for their time in the study.
The next point I need to make is that every single set that you perform truly makes a deeper inroad into recovery ability, especially as the trainee grows progressively stronger.
It's kinda like when you started as a beginner. It took years to develop muscle maturity, and I mean years. Look at my thumbnail and tell me low volume hit doesn't work.
My take-home message is one set to failure over time, which will build incredible mass n strength. I currently do about 6 work sets total per week for each large muscle group, eg. Legs, Chest, and Back and 3 sets total per week for delts, triceps, and biceps.
And I train half the body on Saturday and the other half on Sunday resting Monday thru Friday.
Wonderful lecture, and logical advice. Thank you for adding, and clarifying High Intensity Training; and that moderate volume is to be practiced later on in your training. I have noticed that adding one or two sets, up to four sets can be effective approach after a five to eight years of training. Actually, I'm referring to myself as an example. Most trainees who can concentrate very well, manage their time, and who have time to exercise can make faster progress two years for muscular mass.
For very dedicated trainee they can make progress, and maybe reach up to 70% of their potential in only one year; from what Mike Mentzer, and Arthur Jones has observed, and examined. Anyway, that is what Mike has noted, explained, and has written about; and the same from a slightly earlier time.🏋♂
Science cant change the fact that physiologically once a muscle has been stressed enough to reach failure then whats the point in more . Mentzer was about training to failure in the shortest time which would help recovery and growth without it being counterproductive by doing more than is required
Great video, i like your type of humor and the pros and cons analysis. I think it'll be a good idea for videos talk about ancient training (persia or rome army) because some may be interesting to try, saludos desde Argentina.
Mike vs Mike! Loved this video. Super helpful to hear a fleshed out and nuanced appreciation as well as correction of Mentzer’s methodology
I implemented these principles in my workouts and is working for me
I look at mike and I look at you and the results are evident
Yes for the second part, please!
Definitely want a part two. Also would love the good doctor's synopsis on the "Super Squats" work out by Randall Strossen
I really appreciated this vid, probably for an odd reason. My dad isn't a body builder, per se, but working out, and being healthy, has been a big part of his life for a long time, which is why he still looks jacked in his 60s. But I wouldn't say he's really a student of the science behind this stuff, and I don't really know where his ideas on what a good workout comes from. A lot of this stuff about Mike Mentzer echoes a lot of what my own father tells me when I ask him for advice as I get my late start in my workout journey. So in an odd way, this helps me understand my father
Ed Coan has some videos I would love to get your take on. The amount of weight the guy moves is unreal. If i recall correctly he doubles a 950 squat in one video. He was powerlifter, but his training volume was pretty high.
Thanks for all you do for us!