Metroid Prime 2: Echoes is definitely a Zelda game. Let's discuss.

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  • Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2024

Комментарии • 90

  • @THOR_THE_GOD
    @THOR_THE_GOD 6 месяцев назад +48

    Prime 2 and Twilight Princess are my favorite games of all time. I can't die peacefully until I see Echos remastered!

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  6 месяцев назад +10

      Love prime 2, so underrated. I have another video about why I'm dying for a remaster of it

    • @ThEraserKey
      @ThEraserKey 4 месяца назад +5

      Dude. Nintendo gave us metrod prime 1 remastered from nowhere. Living any new day knowing it can suddenly appear right tomorrow. Makes me so anxious. Also with metroid 4 anounced. Echoes and corruption would be excellent for more sales

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  4 месяца назад +3

      @@ThEraserKey Yeah, we need the sequels on Switch more than ever now. I'd even be happy with just cleaned up ports just so they're playable on modern hardware rather than full remasters like Prime 1, although a full Echoes remaster would be so beautiful.

    • @ThEraserKey
      @ThEraserKey 4 месяца назад

      @@crywolfplays yeah. Would be ok aswell tbh. Since we cant play that thing since the wii (metroid prime trilogy)
      Well it was on the emulator store on wii u i think. But yeah. Not many people have access to it.
      But
      Let people know what its metroid prime universe about its a must.
      Otherwise the title would just be. Metroid prime beyond. And not metroid prime 4 beyond

    • @brijor6ff7
      @brijor6ff7 4 месяца назад +2

      Damn, that's my 2 favs as well. I need that Prime 2 remaster NOW!

  • @ColdGoldLazarus
    @ColdGoldLazarus 6 месяцев назад +23

    Yeah, I hope Prime 4 can kinda hit a "best of both worlds" blend of the strengths of the first three, particularly with, as you said, world structure and progression.

  • @PresidentEvil2
    @PresidentEvil2 4 месяца назад +24

    Prime 2 is the best in the trilogy

    • @ashemabahumat4173
      @ashemabahumat4173 4 месяца назад

      Idk about that, but it definitely is my favorite

  • @Axecon1
    @Axecon1 6 месяцев назад +11

    Prime 2 is my favorite Metroid game in the entire series. I never really connected the dots to the Zelda similarities but I can definitely see it. I'm a bigger fan of the "dungeon"/isolated region design and love when it shows up in other games. I do hope Metroid Prime 4 takes some lessons from BOTW/TOTK to help expand the world, freedom of traversal, and feelings of isolation.

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  6 месяцев назад +3

      Love seeing all this appreciation for echoes, I can understand why it's your favorite, it's probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite. Id love to see the dungeons of prime 2 paired with larger areas that still feel interconnected with lock and key mechanics

  • @HornetSilksong1232
    @HornetSilksong1232 3 месяца назад +5

    i very quickly noticed similarities between prime 2 and Twilight princess when i played prime 2

  • @Redeadhunter
    @Redeadhunter 4 месяца назад +7

    Metroid Prime 2 is my favorite Zelda game

  • @nickkaka2214
    @nickkaka2214 6 месяцев назад +9

    That was an interesting analysis. I always got Zelda vibes from Prime 2, but could never pinpoint why

    • @alexwolf7171
      @alexwolf7171 6 месяцев назад +1

      Thanks! I had the same feeling and decided to excessively analyze it.

    • @supermechashadowlord
      @supermechashadowlord 6 месяцев назад +2

      I played Echoes back in 2004 when it was released and even back then everyone talked about how much it was similar to A Link to The Past, starting with the Light/Dark Worlds.
      But similar in a good way.

  • @Torinna_
    @Torinna_ 6 месяцев назад +12

    I always found it insane that THIS game of all games is one of the most divisive Metroid games. Prime 2 always felt like a much better, evolved version of Prime 1 with many more original ideas. Regardless, I remember thinking about how similar Prime 2 was to Zelda both thematically and design wise after watching a review on this game and I can’t unsee it now

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  6 месяцев назад +5

      I agree completely, it feels like a deeper natural evolution of prime 1, I love it even though I do wish the dark world had a little more variety. I can't unsee it either. I go into prime 2 in a lot of depth in another remaster video on my channel

    • @Trazynn
      @Trazynn 4 месяца назад +1

      I think it's the environment. Prime 2 is more bleak and dour, there are fewer biomes and less diversity between them. Even though indeed the gameplay was more polished.

    • @Monke80s
      @Monke80s 3 месяца назад

      This yapping session is too long. Whoever sees this, short answer:
      I used to like Prime 2 the most, but now my favorite is 1. I find that there was no reason to add beam ammo to the game. Sky temple key exploration is too convoluted and tedious. Prime's back and forth, going to multiple areas design is more personally preferable than MP2's self contained design. Overall, I love MP2, the OST, the atmosphere, the structure, the beam upgrades, the originality, everything. The bosses are really cool, but personally, nowadays my GOAT is Prime 1. But frick, Prime 2 is really really really good.
      I just replayed it recently. Prime 2 was my favorite before but no longer personally. My biggest complaint is the ammo system. Back then I saw it as a mechanic that forced you to not shoot anything like a maniac, making you take things slow and think more, and if that's how someone else feels or feels different, that's fine. Personally, however, I now feel that there was no reason to add beam ammo to the game. Prime 1 already does very good at mixing both "stack up" progression and multiple beam progression insanely well. All beams have their strengths and weaknesses and later game introduces enemies that have different weaknesses based on the color of the beam. The power beam still has a bit of use with the super missiles and by the time you get the Plasma beam, which is very strong in most cases, you only have a few things to do before the only thing to do is to collect the Artifacts, which makes the last main things to collect feel less tedious, improving the pacing. Prime 2 kinda does this if you collect all the beam expansions up until you get the Annihilator beam, but that means most of the game you're left with using the beams as means of puzzle solving and opening pathways, which is cool but nowhere near as fun as changing and using beams however you want while keeping it balanced. All of that also means that they had to justify the use of the power beam by making enemies weaker to the power beam and less aggressive in behavior, which I don't prefer personally. I also feel they went too vague on the sky temple key clues. Prime 1 was a lot less vague but still vague enough that it kept you looking. And it's not much that it's vague, it's that sky temple keys are only in the dark world, so exploration was a lot more convoluted and tedious to explore and see where they could even possibly be. The rest it's just pure preference, don't have anything to say other than I prefer it. Like going around back and forth in different areas in Prime 1 is delightful, but I still love Prime 2's self contained design.
      I have to say, however, I still love Prime 2 for what it is. The OST is delightful (been listening to Sanctuary Fortress non stop after a long while), the atmosphere is beautiful, the beam upgrades are very cool. The annihilator beam rocks, it's super original and interesting. The echo visor is so original and cool, one of the most original upgrades in the whole franchise. The bosses slap, even if some do drag out a little. The self contained design has its strengths by reducing the area in which you're allowed to explore and get lost in. The Light suit remains one of my favorite suit designs. The Dark suit is super cool too. Amazing, amazing games. I may love classic Oreos more, but I'm downing a whole box of Golden or Mint Oreos any day. They're just that good as well

  • @theotakuoftime6465
    @theotakuoftime6465 6 месяцев назад +8

    This was such a great video! Keep it up.

  • @wiiownsps3and360
    @wiiownsps3and360 5 месяцев назад +5

    You just validated 11 year old me. Thank you. 🙏

  • @koal6934
    @koal6934 6 месяцев назад +7

    I feel like if any Nintendo franchise game will benefit from an open world design most, it'd be a Metroid Prime game. I've only beaten Prime 3, but I played Prime 1 for hours, the exploration aspect was incredible to me as a kid. Prime 2 I loved, but couldn't really get lost in it. Prime 3 had me obsessed, first one I beat. I see the Zelda formula you brought up, so I'm a little surprised at myself for not getting into Prime 2, but maybe the Zelda formula in the Prime game is what put me off from it.
    Either way, Metroid and Zelda are my two favorite line of games Nintendo's put out.
    ETA that I wish Nintendo put as much time into Metroid as they do Zelda, but what time they DO choose to spend on Metroid games is worth it. I even loved Other M, tbh. I'm very glad to see Retro Studios are the ones working the project, tho!

    • @federicoricca2512
      @federicoricca2512 4 месяца назад +1

      It _could_ also work on a 2D Metroid too, though that would need to be executed very differently and it kinda already happened with SM and Metroid 1

    • @chozochiefxiii3298
      @chozochiefxiii3298 3 месяца назад +2

      Metroids' entire structure, just like zeldas, would have to be completely overhauled to make it fit an open world structure. I don't have faith they can pull it off.
      Metroid is about a linear but larger scale set of locks and keys. Abilities and power-ups would have to be completely rethought if a metroid game lets you go anywhere you want as soon as you set foot on a planet. Morph ball, gravity suit, the way metroid usually locks its doors.

    • @federicoricca2512
      @federicoricca2512 3 месяца назад

      @@chozochiefxiii3298 but it _is_ possible. Maybe in a Zelda structure where you have an overworld with some content locked by the doors you mentioned, and with "dungeons" that have the upgrades. Maybe it could also work differently, but for a first Metroid Open world that would work nicely

    • @chozochiefxiii3298
      @chozochiefxiii3298 3 месяца назад +1

      @federicoricca2512 The next issue arises. How many of these "dungeons" as dungeon puzzles revolve around the upgrades in the dungeon. Most metroids combat upgrades are seldomly used for puzzles, and prime makes the most use of puzzles with the morph ball and spider ball.
      Devs would have to find ways to make puzzles work with all the traditional metroid upgrades and any new ones they come up with. Then, we would have to plan out which order each dungeon is to be played in.
      If it is possible, it's just barely without a lot of forethought and planning to rework the entire formula. It's been 14-15 years since metroid Prime 3, so I'm assuming that while trying new ideas, the dev team will try and make a "core" metroid prime experience as a safe play.

  • @Unknownplayer31305
    @Unknownplayer31305 4 месяца назад +3

    I heard that for the whole light/dark world, mechanic retro studios consulted a developer from a link to the past to make sure it felt right.

  • @N4MELEZ
    @N4MELEZ Месяц назад +2

    WHAT?! Outrageou...oh your right

  • @3dmarth
    @3dmarth 2 месяца назад +1

    Back when I first played Prime 1, I noticed that even its structure was somewhat Zelda-like.
    This was a long time ago, so I hadn't heard of the "Metroidvania" genre (that name probably didn't even exist yet). But yeah, I feel like that term actually describes Zelda games pretty well. People are grasping for ways to describe the more "linear", "structured" style of older Zeldas (compared to BotW/TotK), but struggle to do so, as they're thinking in terms of "RPGs" rather than "Metroidvanias".
    And then Prime 2 really drives home the parallels between the two series, like nothing else does!

  • @TimDespairBear11
    @TimDespairBear11 3 месяца назад +2

    To be honest Zelda and Metroid aren’t that different as a whole. They involve exploring, getting items to unlock new areas, solve puzzles, fight bosses, etc. The energy tanks are just the hearts and instead of arrows you have missiles.
    Prime 2 definitely has the strongest influence mostly because of the light/dark world but there’s nothing wrong with copying good ideas in my opinion.

  • @Bowcaster26
    @Bowcaster26 4 месяца назад +3

    Huh.... You're not wrong.
    Prime 2 is my favourite game of the trilogy and I could never put my finger on why

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  4 месяца назад

      It's a super under appreciated game.

  • @chaoslord8918
    @chaoslord8918 4 месяца назад +2

    I totally get the Zelda feel from this game. In fact, I think the term "Metroid-Zelda" is more accurate then MetroidVania, though it doesn't sound nearly as catchy.
    I played Prime 1 and 2 on the GC around when they came out. There's a lot I love about 2, especially Dark Aether and a lot of the enemies, but I felt that the overall world design was a bit simplistic, even with the Dark World. The Temple Grounds and Agon Wastes looking basically the same was a big letdown after MP1's environments. The Temples and Keys get pretty boring and repetitive after a short time. I don't mind the final key hunt, but I don't like that it almost all requires the Light Suit at the end of the game. Again, a step back from MP1, where you could collect most of the Chozo Artifacts on your way through the game if you know where to look, and only need to backtrack for a couple after the final ability. I also felt like the Beams and Visors were a step backwards: both literally and figuratively black and white to MP1's color.

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  4 месяца назад +1

      Thanks, good points here. It's funny you mention that - the first time I ever played the game for some reason I didn't realize the temple grounds and agon wastes were fully separate biomes because they look so similar. I also which echoes hadn't started with another psuedo-desert area like prime 1, even though they're quite a bit different gameplay-wise.

  • @ShykeProdz
    @ShykeProdz 5 месяцев назад +4

    Now MP4 trailer is here ! 🤌🏾🔥🔥🔥

  • @AgentBurgers
    @AgentBurgers 4 месяца назад +1

    I always thought that because it had a dark world as well

  • @Twisted_Logic
    @Twisted_Logic 4 месяца назад +1

    This is something I've noticed for a long time. I think the first time I thought about it was when GMTK released his Prime 2 video. I love Prime 2, it's my 2nd most replayed Metroid game after Prime 1, but it feeling more like a Zelda game than Metroid contributes to why Prime 1 ultimately wins out for me

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  4 месяца назад +1

      Nice, I think echoes has higher replayability than it gets credit for. Once you understand the overall layout of the areas it's not as daunting as people seem to say

  • @zekrom34
    @zekrom34 4 месяца назад +3

    I would also say Metroid Prime 2 is better then 3D classic Zelda games.
    I mean, 3D Zelda games can only dream the quality of Metroid combat and bosses. Also the entire game is structured like a series of distinct rooms, like the whole world is just a giant dungeon, something we've never seen in any Zelda title.

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  4 месяца назад

      I love the "whole world is a dungeon" design.

  • @yoh2525
    @yoh2525 6 месяцев назад +5

    Interesting observations

  • @Jake-td8nm
    @Jake-td8nm 6 месяцев назад +10

    I wish we lived in the alternative universe where Nintendo decided to double down on Metroid instead of Zelda. Like I have Skyrim. Samus represents an underrepresented genre of fantastic sci Fi that gamers don't know how badly they need it.

    • @richardbaker308
      @richardbaker308 6 месяцев назад +5

      Don't take away from zelda. Do less on Mario games

  • @icemagefullbusta
    @icemagefullbusta 4 месяца назад

    As soon as I saw the title of the video, I was like "oh damn he is so right!" and the more you went into, I couldn't unsee the similarities 😅

  • @freestalkerdotfr6391
    @freestalkerdotfr6391 3 месяца назад

    I compare MP2 to Majora's Mask where you have more constraints than in MP1. In fact it's my favourite Metroid Prime as when you beat a tough boss you feel powerfull.

  • @prettyoriginalnameprettyor7506
    @prettyoriginalnameprettyor7506 5 месяцев назад +5

    Prime 2 is the best metroid game and also a better zelda game than totk

    • @mobes8876
      @mobes8876 4 месяца назад

      lol. Aren’t we edgy and so original

  • @TheKritken
    @TheKritken 6 месяцев назад +3

    A zelda game when you get rid of the overworld and its just dungeons is called a Metroid game? hmm

    • @amandaslough125
      @amandaslough125 4 месяца назад

      The main difference between the genres a metroidvania has the entire map be a dungeon and there's a larger focus on platforming/traversal. Otherwise they're close siblings.

  • @nevercanyoucant
    @nevercanyoucant 4 месяца назад +1

    z-targeting , exploration, elemental temple areas, increasing abilities

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  4 месяца назад +1

      Z targeting is another great point

    • @DarknessXER
      @DarknessXER 4 месяца назад

      Increased ammo capacities

    • @TimDespairBear11
      @TimDespairBear11 3 месяца назад

      @@crywolfplaysI might be wrong but I heard that Metroid prime was originally going to have fps controls (like the remaster) but once retro studios saw the gamecube c stick they changed it to Z target.
      So it’s more of the gamecube controller just not being competent for shooters.

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  3 месяца назад

      @@TimDespairBear11 Interesting, I didn't know about that, but yeah the GameCube C-Stick is definitely weird hah

    • @TimDespairBear11
      @TimDespairBear11 3 месяца назад

      @@crywolfplays yup also I’m trying to make some Metroid Videos on my channel I’m not that good but i made one recently about prime 4 and prime 2 and 3 hd if you want to check them out

  • @Clodd1
    @Clodd1 6 месяцев назад +3

    Interesting theory. It took me forever to beat Echoes, I'm planing to play again, Im pretty sure I missed a lot of stuff.
    (Why does your voice sometimes sound like it has autotune?)

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  6 месяцев назад +1

      Hey thanks for the feedback. I use a noise gate filter to remove any background white noise but sometimes the settings might be a bit aggressive, I'll watch out for that thanks

  • @lewatoaofair2522
    @lewatoaofair2522 3 месяца назад

    I mean, Metroidvanias seem to owe more of its origins to Zelda more than its two namesake games. Especially when both the original Metroid AND Symphony of the Night cite the original Legend of Zelda for their game design. It’s worth an exploration.

  • @MoonfallMidnight
    @MoonfallMidnight Месяц назад +1

    Finally, somebody else who thinks this.

  • @robertsonmcnaughton4850
    @robertsonmcnaughton4850 3 месяца назад

    Does Samus get dizzy in orb mode?

  • @sebastianstyles9750
    @sebastianstyles9750 2 месяца назад

    Echoes being on GameCube shows how ahead of it’s time the cube was, however the Wii was one of Nintendo’s weakest consoles, maybe only housing Xenoblade as the biggest game on it, and then WiiU housing Xenoblade X.

  • @pedrobeckup456
    @pedrobeckup456 3 месяца назад

    Metroid Prime 2 Echoes of Wisdom

  • @WeeG-bwc77
    @WeeG-bwc77 4 месяца назад

    The guy who worked on LTTP also worked on Echoes, no?

  • @MashBro
    @MashBro 3 месяца назад

    I played the trilogy on PrimeHack with an HD texture pack and now a remaster feels unnecessary to me. Once you go M&KB controls, you can't go back.

  • @Degdreams
    @Degdreams 4 месяца назад +2

    "More mature" is a rather dubious way to describe Zelda. Its a campy franchise on purpose. Always has been.

  • @calzone7961
    @calzone7961 3 месяца назад

    Prime 2 is my favorite game and I love the Zelda games. However, I feel like you stretched the idea too far in some areas

  • @definitivamenteno-malo7919
    @definitivamenteno-malo7919 2 месяца назад

    prime 2? All Metroids are a change of pov of Zelda. Always been

  • @SinaelDOverom
    @SinaelDOverom 6 месяцев назад +3

    Could it be... That both game belong to the same genre of adventure games.

  • @kevinbuchanan67
    @kevinbuchanan67 2 месяца назад

    Yup, all three prime games are zelda games

  • @pearlcarneiro5432
    @pearlcarneiro5432 6 месяцев назад +5

    Sorry but all I could hear was that Zelda games are actually metroidvanias

    • @crywolfplays
      @crywolfplays  6 месяцев назад +2

      What a twist, this is probably the right way to look at it

  • @CheeseMonkey18
    @CheeseMonkey18 6 месяцев назад +3

    Wait wait wait, in what way is Zelda the “more mature franchise” exactly? The first Metroid and Zelda games came out about the same time. Zelda appeals to a younger audience as well as an older one, where Metroid can be more impenetrable for kids…huh? Sorry, you nearly lost me in the first thirty seconds.

    • @CheeseMonkey18
      @CheeseMonkey18 6 месяцев назад

      Æther is pronounced “Ether”
      C’mon man

    • @CheeseMonkey18
      @CheeseMonkey18 6 месяцев назад

      “Oakarina”

    • @SacredCharizard
      @SacredCharizard 4 месяца назад

      ​@@CheeseMonkey18The way he pronounced Aether is correct

    • @XanderVJ
      @XanderVJ 4 месяца назад

      The Zelda series has had more iterations and refinements than Metroid has, so I guess that's what he meant.

    • @KobeAndersonCactus
      @KobeAndersonCactus 2 месяца назад +1

      He said "other more mature franchise" as in both of them are "more mature" compared to say Mario. Confusing wording but it's all in the lack of pause between the words other and more

  • @JM-yq9gd
    @JM-yq9gd 28 дней назад

    I love your content, brother.