The fact that you are a well experienced long range shooter, and dont support shots over 600 yards, and your straight forward outlook on advertised velocities, and different things, has me wanting to see your testing. Cant wait
Congradulations on bringing target movement into long range hunting, as an ex sniper that has fired thousands of 300 win mag rounds I will never shoot at a moving big game animal period. I currently shoot a 28 Nosler and personally believe its the best big game cartridge up to brown bear with the Nosler 175gr ABLR. The comments of a fast cartridge being a barrel burner is so irrelevant to a hunting rifle that you only verify the zero before each hunt lets me separate the BS commenters from true knowledgeable shooters. Great presentation and I appreciate the cost and effort to bring truth to the shooting public, so thank you.
I killed my first mulie buck, pronghorn buck, and cow elk with my uncle’s 280 Remington shooting hand loaded 140 Partitions. I killed my first bull elk with a 7MM REM Mag shooting 160 Partitions, also hand loads. So needless to say I have been a 7MM fan ever since. So, I’m really looking forward to this series. With that in mind, off to the series.
Thanks John, I have my biases too. But they're based in experience, not rumors, internet comments or marketing hype. Thank you for coming along on this adventure!
Been shooting 7prc for a year now . Really like it so accurate not as fast as my 28 nosler but I seem to get .3o to 40 in 7prc and .85 out of my 28 nosler. Just found this chanell .
I appreciate your hard work...because it is in fact work! Your information is the truth so mostly I appreciate your honesty. Thank you for helping out the common man.
I just had a 280AI built on a Win70 action. Two elk do far and I love it. I totally agree I’m recoil sensitive and have zero desire for a bigger badder 7
My first 7mm Rem 1975 Winchester Deluxe. To nice to pack into muskeg. Bought a Browning 7mm Rem Stalker. Both 1.5 inch at 200. Longest kill shot 485 yds Antelope.
I just bumped into your RUclips channel and subscribed. I am 69 and I hunted most of my life with a Remington 700 BDL DM in 7mm REM Mag. I have taken moose and deer with it and the only thing I did to it was having the barrel free floated and a Jewel trigger installed. Recently I was treating myself to a gift a new rifle. All the rage was the 7PRC and I considered buying it but after research I decided to get a Sako Precision in 7mm REM Mag. I stick with the calibre that I was familiar with and had great success with! I didn’t need the latest and greatest. My ammo for the 7mm is easy to get and the 7mm does the job for me. The longest shot I have taken with my 7mm was a 319 yard lung shot and the bull moose only went 50 yards and laid down. I love the 7mm for deer because I get very little shock and gel from the hit. Lately I stayed in the 7mm family and treated myself to a Tikka T3X in 7mm-08 but I removed the stock and replaced it with an MDT HNT26 Carbon Fibre chassis. Took my first buck with it this fall. I don’t think you can beat the 7mm family of calibers for performance. Oh and I watched the Gunwerks guy in a RUclips video say that he didn’t like the recoil from the 300PRC. Looking forward to the series from Northern Ontario.
Thank you for joining us! We thinks the 7's are pretty hard to beat. The 300's poke a slightly larger hole, but the recoil penalty is aggressive, for very little increase in terminal ballistics. All great cartridges you mentioned. Just learn their limitations and choose wisely.
The 7PRC and the 7RM (Available everywhere) are almost Identical in performace. 7PRC a bit shorter, longer bullets, same case cap. If your action/magazine in the 7RM will allow longer bullets, reloading will equal the 7PRC. But I doubt you need heavier than 180 Grns for the 7MM👍
Right!?! Super underrated. New guys like the idea of "dumping all the energy in the animal"... Until they do that and he doesn't fall down and runs off and dies in some hell hole and you never find him. You only have to do that once and after that... a blood trail sounds pretty good. If you ask me, two busted shoulders AND an exit wound and a blood trail sounds pretty optimal to me. Thanks for the support, welcome aboard.
Took my last five Whitetail with the ‘exploding’ target ELDX. None of them went more than 10 yards. No exit wounds either. But the entrance wounds bled enough if I needed to track them I could, but I never did. That’s what I like about the ‘exploding’ target bullets. Multiple wound channels have never required me to track an animal I shot. All five of my deer shots took out the heart and at least one of the lungs. Three of them took out the heart and both lungs. It’s all about bullet placement. By the way, James Eagleman, the guy you speak highly of and rightly so, believes in the ‘exploding’ Berger target bullet. The same guy you said has forgotten more than most people know? Lol. I will watch your new shows and see what you have to say about all of this.
@@KB-ld6ql no more than any other bullet would. I normally put it behind the shoulder, but sometimes I’ve gone in the shoulder so that shoulder with any bullet would be wasted. In my experience a fragmenting bullet doesn’t destroy any more meat than a Accubond or monolithic, ect.. At least I haven’t seen it. I think that’s a marketing lie by the other bullet manufactures to make Berger,Hornady bullets and the like look worse to the buyer. My experience with an ELDX has been phenomenal. It’s extremely accurate and it does fragment inside of 100 yards. But it also destroys the organs much better than a solid bullet does. I always take out at least one lung and the heart and normally both lungs and the heart and the animal drops nearly immediately. No tracking required. I am a believer in multiple wound channels instead of just one. The meat loss thing is pure, marketing BS in my opinion. I do understand what Tim is saying in his videos about the monolithic and having an exit wound so you can track an elk if need be. But I guess if you place the bullet correctly, you wouldn’t have to worry about tracking it much. That’s just my opinion. I’m sure it’s happened either way many times. We all learned from our experiences.
Hey John, which experiences? Can you elaborate on that a little? I think this is good for people to hear from others that aren't associated with producing the content.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Responding to my similar experience:. Bullet choice-I could talk about a flat based bullet that exploded on a large whitetails shoulder blade and me switching to Accubonds which have always worked for me. I now use Hornady solid copper and they work better for me - no lead in the meat. Your comments about OAL are similar to mine. I hunt primarily with a 7mag (although I have hunted and killed game with about 8 different rounds) and have always seated the bullets to be just short of the lands if the magazine would allow it and always use a chronograph when developing loads. My loads are hot compared to most books; as long as the bolt lift is easy, I feel I'm good. I then consider brass life. If I can't get 5 loading without the primer pockets opening, its too hot for my use. Your comments about factory loads mirror mine, that's why I always take my chronograph to the range; I like to deal with real numbers. I do not use a ballistic calculator for trajectory. I shoot to see how they fly and take written notes. I also shoot enough to make sure my experiences are repeatable.
Thank you for following up. Very parallel experiences. But I do use ballistic calculators. They can be remarkably accurate if your inputs are perfect. But they are all garbage in, garbage out systems. The solutions are only as good as the inputs. Going 4 for 5 at 2073yds is all about problem solving. Knowing what's important, and what isn't, intuition and drawing from previous experience. The first time I shot 2100yds was 8 years ago. It's not new territory. Explored territory is just that. Once you've done it successfully, you can draw from it on future shots. Just like anything else in life. It appears your reloading practices are sound. But don't shy away from the technology. It can be incredibly effective when you know how to exploit it.
Excellent video mate very interesting and no bullshit well done, I love the 7mm cartridges the wind bucking ability and lack of recoil and how flat they shoot nothing compares, I have 6.5 also 30cal and 338 they all serve a purpose and do their purpose well but they don’t keep up with the 7 rem mag I own, I recently done some measurements and it’s grown 50thou in the last 350 shots so I seated out another 50thou and put another 2 grains of powder in and wow!! It’s shooting 162gr at 3156fps with no pressure and 0.3moa, long live the rem mag 💪🏼
I had a 270 once, reloaded for it and hunted many times. But the gun that I lost the most deer with was the 270. I’ll never own a 270 again. I’m a good tracker and find my game more than most but for whatever reason the 270 failed to kill or have a through and through for blood trailing with grand slams. It was very accurate, just not deadly enough. Interestingly I had a 243 that I also reloaded for and I never, ever lost a deer with it. I also witnessed a deer shot with a 7mm mag and I was looking at the deer with bingos and saw the hit behind the shoulder. The deer went down then got up and took off into the brush before my friend could get off a shot. At 30 yards with a 7mm you wouldn’t expect the deer to get up and go but it did. On my property, so I had the opportunity to search for it every day and eventually crows since they feed on dead animals but I never did find it. 270 just isn’t good enough.
I`m lucky to have a son that is as interested in this stuff as I. We have been shooting together for a long time, H.P. , hunting and the such... we always liked the challenge of shooting distance...to the point of him building a .338 U.M.,cause he always wanted to shoot to a mile. So he did, and we did. I acted as a spotter down range with a radio, called his first two short, and he put the next three on target. Impressive. 300 grn Sierra. BTB, he builds our rifles on trued 700`s. As you are handloading this stuff, and it`s custom, push the throat out a bit on the 7 RM...and show us what it can do. Thanks
That's great that you guys are able to do that together. My dad was with me when we made that most recent shot that I mentioned, but as a spectator. He is fascinated by the concept and loves to watch, but he doesn't get involved. It makes things much easier with a froward observer. Despite my skill, I haven't been able to convince anyone to volunteer for that job, ha ha ha. Trued 700's work fine for most jobs. Thanks for watching!
Can't wait! Most interesting info I've seen on RUclips in a while. Been shooting 7 mag for 3 decades. I'll be watching. Let the chips fall were they may 👍🏻
Just joined your Chanel. Love it. Finally I can listen to someone who knows their stuff and doesn't sugar coat anything,, or is bias towards certain cartridges. Great work!
That`s interesting...thanks. The Berger I`m shooting is their 180 Hybrid Target, which depending on tip formation measures 1.53 to 1.56. My OA Cartridge length is 3.6, plus-minus bullet tip, CBO is 3.856. Needless to say, we pushed the throat out a bit to get the measurements. Seems to work. The rifle just pounds with this load.Thanks for talking and the info, and good luck with the project...looking forward to it.
I totally agree. I will never ever use an eld on anything with hair ever again. The blood trail comes from a pass through or combo mouth/nostril lung along with pass through. Not to mention meat loss. Hornady ballistic claims cannot be met with my 7mm Rem either. Bonded bullets only for me. Nosler 160gr Accubond performs as designed. My fave.
Dale and Tim, So here I was passing the time by watching yet another “regurgitated information cartridge comparison” video when YOUR/THIS video appeared on my side bar. I was pleasantly interested in that you are now making videos on what your shop does. NICE !! Being a user and advocate of 7MM cartridges for decades above other caliber options, the title certainly piqued my interest. (I use and hunt multiple calibers and chamberings, but conclude .284 is a very wise option.) Five minutes into this Tim, this video did not disappoint. I have been shooting and hunting the 7mm Rem. Mag (1980), 7mm RUM (2003) and .280 Ackley (2015), so your 7mm cartridge choices as comparison certainly have my attention. External performance wise, they most certainly overlap some, and mine are in different rifles, all of “classic” design, because that’s what I prefer in a carryable, yet stable shooting platform at the moment of truth in a hunting rifle, and for visual esthetics to this user. They are of moderate weight and for reasons that compliment the balance of carry and stable and steady performance upon firing at game. Each have been used on multiple species of big game. Everything you highlighted I most wholeheartedly agree 100% with in terms of cartridge design and potential if the rifle is set up properly. KUDOS to you for having the fortitude to call BS in the latest marketing scheme of Big H’s latest design parameters and factory muzzle velocity hype on the 7MM PRC. It certainly is a fine cartridge, BUT, volume/capacity at a given psi pressure level, and barrel length is what determines muzzle velocity. Rifle set up with COAL in a proper length action (i.e. Rem 700, etc.) and chamber/freebore characteristics and terminal bullet choice further tweaks the end result. That’s it. There is no magic, just desirable set up and characteristics in rifle, action, chamber, barrel, and bullet. Informed enthusiasts know where you are likely going with all this in your subsequent videos. I really look forward to them. Thank You for FINALLY offering a video that is educated, informed, and truthful on all things rifle. Please keep them coming.
WOW! This may be the most well written comment in the history of gun channels. Kudos to you for taking the time to write it. Thank you for the kind words and support. Dale and I are equally passionate about honest information. We both have handloaded for countless cartridges and we know what cartridges can do and what cartridges can't do. We are going to be launching a line of rifles with specific components chosen for specific reasons. This series is step one. Harvesting real data, so we have "turn-key" information to hand to our customers when they purchase a rifle package from us. We literally have zero interest in cranking out thousands of average rifles per year with no data to support them. We want to build the very best rifles we can with components that work well together, leave nothing to be desired and flat out hammer. If that means we deliver 50 rifle packages per year, then that's what it means. If you look carefully at the thumbnail, the first three shots including the cold bore, shot a .146" group @ 100yds. That was shot with the 28 Nosler shown in this video @ just below peak pressure. When I say hammer, I mean hammer. Along the way, while planning, we decided we could offer incredibly valuable information to the hunting/shooting public. Guys won't have to wonder what one of these cartridges can do, we're going to PROVE what they can do. This video was just skimming the surface of the forthcoming information. You guys have no idea what's coming. Dale and I are super pumped about it. See ya around in the comments, welcome aboard.
Tim, Well, thanks for the kudos on my comments ! Much appreciated, for sure. Am happy to share my thoughts with you both, and your viewers. Please say “hi” to Dale for me. I have been to your shop but twice so far, but certainly intend to have you folks do work for me again. After accidentally dropping my shoulder slung M700 APR (Custom Shop) .300 RUM, falling off my shoulder getting into one of my deer stands a couple of years ago in the dark, wee hours of the morning, I brought it to Dale because something happened to the bedding and normally butter smooth action during that fall. The groups had opened up. I showed Dale the before, and after the fall, targets. He paused from his work, and took the time to look it over, and we had some great rifle looney conversation. (he also took the time to bore-scope my .22-250 brought along, just ‘cause it’s been “white hot” shooting prairie dogs far too often) Dale pillar bedded, re-glassed the action, and floated the barrel. Happy to report it now shoots nice tiny clusters again. Beautiful work. Personal goes a long ways with customers, for sure. Again, am excited to follow your videos. Thank you again. Paul, from Park Rapids. @@LittleCrowGunworks
Gday from Australia. This is the first time I’ve seen one of your videos. I subscribed about 2 minutes in! I love your approach and I’m looking forward to this series. 👍🏼
The one thing about the 7 mm’s that always amazes me is just how good the 7x57 Mauser is and how ahead of its time it was for being introduced in 1892! looking forward to this series, but agree for big game out west the long actions are the way to go!
The 7x57 is an amazing cartridge. It certainly has it's place to shine. Even in a modern custom rifle where cartridge overall length is not a limitation and with modern brass, it would be comparable to a 7mm-08 in terms of performance. Which is certainly no slouch, but those two cartridges choke on big 160gr+ bullets. Especially the 7mm-08 in a short action because you have to stuff the bullet so far in the case to fit within magazine length. Thanks for watching!
Looking forward to your videos. I was in the fence on what 7mm I wanted to build. I ended up finding lots of components and went with a 7saum in. long action with a good amount of freebore. It runs 180s real close to 2900fps and is very accurate it’ll do everything I ever need it to do. I also agree with light rifles.
Wow, 7 RSAUM in a long action. Don't hear that everyday. That is one of the best cartridges that never took off. Wadda ya mean? Light rifles are great! Until you shoot one.
These days with the better bullets available, it seems to me that most hunters do not need an overbore mega magnum. As such, the 28N is really a niche option. On the other hand, you take a 280AI with a 168gr Nosler ABLR going 2800fps… and you have an efficient, well balanced, shootable cartridge that can deliver 2200fps/1800ftlb all the way out to 500m at 3500ft DA. I think for most ethical long range hunters that is plenty of payload delivered on target, and performance beyond that is in the realm of diminishing returns. For perspective, my actual 300WSM moose/elk rifle and 175gr Barnes LRX at 3060fps MV can deliver 2230fps/1930ftlb to 500m. This comparison makes me feel very impressed with the efficiency of the 280AI paired with the 168gr ABLR. Cheers!
Looking forward to this. I like the necked down 300 win mags too. Like 7mm Practical. I’d like to design a 7x57 Mauser case with the shoulders pushed forward, have a .290 long neck in an improved case with either 35 or 40 degree shoulders. It’d be just fun to design and totally not needed.
Ive recently run across the 7mm-300prc. People necking down the 300prc to 7mm for anyone unfamilliar with wildcatting designstions. Caught my intetest.
“Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.” ― Aldo Leopold Just because you CAN shoot that far, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Looking forward to hearing your take on the 7mm's, a personal favorite of mine for over 40yrs now. In my meagre collection, 7mm-08, 7mm Wsm, 7X61 S&H ( the last rifle I would ever part with) and 7mm Wby fill my needs. Any shoutout for the last three would put a big grin on this old guys face.
Thanks for the feedback Bill. All great cartridges you listed. Our main criteria for our cartridge selection was: Long action, does Lapua or Peterson make brass, are the cartridges we're selecting, similar enough in performance to other more obscure 7mm cartridges where we can say we adequately covered the velocity spectrum? To you're example: the 7 WSM and 7x61 S&H are very similar to the 280AI. While the 7 WBY Mag and 7 Rem Mag have identical case capacity/performance. The 28 Nosler and the 7mm STW are mathematically identical other than their shape. I will cover these comparisons in detail during this series as well. I want guys to be able to use the cartridges we chose as a proxy for all 7mm's. Meaning, you can pick a 280AI or a 7x61 S&H. If you have the same barrel length, good brass and stand on each cartridge just as hard, they will produce nearly identical velocities. Comparisons like that from an unbiased source are very helpful for guys that don't know and are trying to make good decisions. Thanks for coming along!
Someone finally approached this with objective reason. I’ve been waiting for a channel to make a video or series about this that isn’t mired with fudd lore or overhype of the modern design.
I think if hornady actually loaded to their advertised spec 7PRC would get a lot less negative criticism. Federal seems to load their 7PRC to advertised velocities. But if we get into an ammo crunch, federal ammo seems to be the first to disappear. Overall- I like where the PRC cartridges are pushing the entire industry - faster twist rates in barrels for example. This not only benefits the prc guns, but guns shooting “legacy” cartridges that still hold their own despite not getting the marketing hype. Hell if we were all honest with ourselves, 30-06, with modern bullets/powder/twist rates, can be used for anything in North America and does so without the fanfare.
All good points. The Hornady cartridges are a good thing for the industry, absolutely. But they're not anything new to those of us that handload and have been meeting or exceeding the Hornady cartridge performance for years. Yes, I have done this enough to say that your 30-06 comment is correct. Good bullet, adequate velocity and bore diameter = dead critter.
I own four 280ai two 26"barrel and two 28" various load work up with use of conagraph long before nosler gave it a boost. Thanks to Nosler we got reloading guides. Also 284win with a 24" barrel will give a 7mm remington a challenge.
Hey a guy that appreciates barrel length! The SHORTEST barrel I own is 26 inches! HA. The 280AI and the 284 are kissing cousins. Same performance when treated equally. Which is very similar to a Factory 7 Rem Mag. But the way we are treating the 7 Rem Mag with the handloads, it will be in a different class than the .473 bolt faced 7's. Thanks for watching!
I like it. You obviously know your stuff. I did become less interested when I found out this is essentially a fully custom scenario. There are so many affordable factory rifles that cost a fraction of a custom rifle and aren't chambered for the longer than SAAMI spec ammo. I will watch your findings as I love to see good testing, but I'm not very interested in having to get a custom rifle and hand load all my ammo when I can get a sub MOA gun for $600. I know it's not sexy, but most of us are in the factory boat due to costs. I know the 7 prc has been hyped a lot, but it does have the good chamber dimensions and ammo in the factory offerings. I'll never need anything more than a 308 where I live, but what hunter doesn't like to think about the "if" scenario of getting to hunt in open country some day. Cheers
Hey man I get it. We're not trying to say this is for everyone. If guys want to see 1 MOA groups with $600 factory rifles, they can watch Backfire or any one of the countless other lame channels putting out uninteresting, "done to death" content. If we just wanted views, that's what we would do. This series is going to show what's possible for 7mm cartridges. How premium factory ammo shoots in custom rifles, to get a baseline and how much performance can be improved by handloading. We regularly produce rifles that shoot sub 1/4 MOA groups at 100yds and will stack five shots on a credit card, over 600yds away. There are guys that want that, and don't care what it costs. This series is targeting them. If in the process, we can relay a ton of honest, science/reality based information to the general shooting public, all the better. Because you're NOT getting it from most other channels out there. Thanks for coming along.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Thank you for the top quality reply. It reflects on your mentality and attention to detail. You're totally right about the cheap guns being done to death on youtube. I'm looking forward to seeing what set of custom rifles can do in this bore diameter. 7mm does seem to be the sweet spot. Who knows, maybe I'll bite the bullet and get a custom rifle I can pass on one day. You earned a sub so I can watch you do your thing!
Happy to hear it. At a minimum, it won't be time wasted on another speculation video that compares paper numbers. I promise this series will include content that you have never seen anywhere else. It's gonna be fun.
Great video. I have the 280 ai, 7 PRC and 7 rem mag. My custom 7prc will not do anything that my 7 mag cannot already do. Hornady factory 175’s only do 2900 out of my 24” barreled PRC. 168 LRX’s run at 2875ish with H4831sc. Nothing amazing out of that cartridge so far.
Thanks Ed, and that's the point. The differences between these cartridges when treated fairly is nothing like the marketing would have you believe. Not everyone chases speed but the 7PRC will come to life with N565. Thanks for watching.
Retired Chief Warrant Officer 4 Ranger Sniper Advancing To Tier 1 JSOC (CAG) 18 Delta Force Squad D & G. I Appreciate The Straight From The Hip Facts. My 2 Extreme Real Estate Firearms Were & Still Are My MK-21 & MK 22 In .300 Norma Mag. My SF Community Comrades Are Big On 30-06 Between 400-600 & Also Where Most So Many Cartridges Necked Up Or Down & The Others Go With 7mm Mag. We Always Considered The Accuracy & Robust Reliability. Over The Top Information. Keep It Coming.
I Really Appreciate The Real Direct Matter Of Fact Approach. 32 + Years In Military My MOS Was (Either Your Right Or Wrong) Lives Always Depended On It. Again; Plz Keep The Footage Coming. On The Private Sector/Citizen This Is 1 Of 3 Best Footage I Have Come Across In The Civilian Sector. The Other 2 Is 1. Paramount Tactical Solutions/Green Beret Made Good With A Off The Charts Channel & 2. Frogman/Navy Seal Off The Charts As Well. I Will Shout Loud & Proud In The Right Context About Your Channel.👍🤛🇺🇸
@@LittleCrowGunworks Lastly. Almost All Other Channels Are Being Payed To Promote Or Have Endorsements So To Speak. However Your Operation Is Raw Here It Is Material Supported By Real Deal & Real Time Facts. Keep Your Head On A Swivel. Chief. Out.
That's just it man, there's always an agenda. The agenda is rarely tied to reality. We're hoping this series format will set a new standard for how things SHOULD be compared in our industry.
I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a 7 PRC and seeing this video was enough to give me pause. There is a lot of hype on the 7 PRC and very hard to separate fact from fiction. As an intro, this video contained some great "no BS" information. I am looking forward to following your series. Thank you!
There is nothing wrong with the 7PRC. It's becoming popular, and the new Kid on the block. Not much better than the rest. Equal to the 7RM. Next year will build a 7MM for grandson. It will be in 7RM. Just because it is available 10 to 1 to any other 7MM, Wherever you travel in North America you will find it in any back road Fish and Tackle store. I reload, so will build in a 3.8" Long/Mag controlled feed action(Like a M70 or Ruger M77) to be able to use the longer Bullets seated out. The sweet spot for hunting is between 160-175 Grns bullets, Max 180 grns. You can still use the Std 1 in 9 twist. If You want the fastest 28 Nosler, and if you build it/get it in 3.8" action then seating out Bullets gets you some extra Grns of powder and a bit more than 3.3K fps with a 175 Grns. Hot Rod
Sub'd in the 1st 10 minutes. I respect a no BS approach to life. Looking forward to this series and other videos you post. Best of luck in your endeavors.
I will run sims of all those 4 Calibers with same the bullet. As a matter of fact, since case capacity/powder are the only variables. The Caliber with the largest case capacity would generate the highest MV. However, with modern calibers such as the PRC series, the caliber is meant to shoot long/heavy bullet for the caliber with higher BC. Higher BC means less wind deflection and more energy at the target. I will also provide Exterior Ballistics Analysis too for the same bullet loads and for the highest BC per weight bullet, i.e. the bullet with minimum G7 form factor that can be stabilized with cartridge standard twist rate
Thanks for coming along with us. I intend to include load simulation data, hit probability simulations. We also will be discussing form factor, sectional density and how the two are related. I've mentioned this to many people, but this series will be unlike any other.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Ruffle away mate, just makes it that more enjoyable, seriously I’m looking forward to it mate, if all goes to plan we will hopefully be doing some business together, just got to look into how to get the goodies to down under, take care and stay safe mate, cheers Yogi ✌️🤙
I’m going to buy a 7mm….so needless to say I’m very interested in this series……I will say most guys can’t afford a custom hunting rifle and most of the people I speak with at the range don’t hand load so I think people should educate themselves on multiple platforms if they fall into the factory rifle and ammunition group.
I will lay that out in this series. But to your point, if you are in the factory rifle and factory ammunition group, you buy a 7 PRC and don't look back. Period, the end. Or a 28 Nosler. But it's usually fair to say that guys in the factory bucket get less trigger time than those in the custom and or handload bucket, which means guys in the factory bucket probably have no business starting with a monster like a 28 Nosler.
Thanks for validating my results. Have shot and worked up safe 175 gr loads for this cartridge and come up very short of 3000 f/s. Factory eldx loads shot great but 2,825- 2,875 is where they fall.
As far as im concerned Hornaday should have left the 7 prc the same length as the 300 prc .I built a 7-300 prc match and it will really perform. I believe it is a better case design than the 28 nosler but that is my personal opinion. Finally a good long range rifle system needs to have some weight to it or its not going to work out well. In a hunting environment we need to be able to spot the impact our self .
Looking forward to this non bias (no bs) comparison. I’ve always wanted a 7 and recently purchased a 7 PRC. 22” barrel Factory loads are well shy of 3000 but I frankly am not one to chase velocity. Whether reloading CX160’s or Berger 180’s my limit is 600 and both will get the job done
Good points. No argument here. I think people are assuming I think that a Berger or an ELDX won't kill stuff. They absolutely will. But will they consistently do it in a way that you NEVER need to track the animal and don't need a blood trail? I don't think so.
This is fantastic! I’m excited for this. Thanks for committing to providing information on these cartridges. In your series, could you also briefly comment on factory offerings? I know you alluded to the 3.34” SAMI specs, but would also be interested in knowing a bit more about that, as I have not personally started hand loading yet. I do think the best comparison is what you’re doing with the same bullet, same barrel length etc. so I’m most interested in these results.
Thanks Joel, I intend to go way more in depth about these cartridge overall lengths, how to determine them and why they are relevant. As I mentioned we will also be testing some factory ammo offerings, so we have a baseline of "factory" performance to compare to. Thanks for coming along!
Bring it on ! I own 3 of the big 7,s except for the 28 Nosler. I am tired of all the Hornady promotional lies. I own the 7 prc nice round but too much bs. I am 78 years old been a meat packer in Alaska in my younger years, (learned a lot about terminal damage of different bullets, etc). reloading over 65 years so, even used the trimmers you guys made, dale developed a recoil lug system for the 1022 that helped me a bunch. so I can see where this series is heading for just judging from the intro the 28 Nosler will out shine the rest. Looking forward to your new series, I can tell you know your stuff by the intro. will be fun !
Thank you for all the kind words and support Otto. The brass trimmers and GRX recoil lug for the 10/22 have been amazing products for Dale. So far the 28 Nosler load development is done and man does that thing shoot! Thanks for coming along!
I own the same three you do. I’m curious which one you’d pick. If I could only have one today I think get a new 7rm but I’ve always said if I could only have one cartridge for life it would be a 280ai.
He is 100% right about a tikka. I built a custom rem mag with an tikka and I’m loading to 3.5”, a lot of work went into getting that to work. Redsnake bottom metal and had a smith open the action up to except to 3.612”. Never did do a long throat than Saami though. Didn’t feel the need since I got the performance I was looking for. But I do regret doing the tikka action. I always say choose a 7 rem mag over a PRC unless you go with a tikka. Then get the PRC. I’ll stick to custom rifles and the 7 rem mag or 30-06. Also for the channel. Is that a MBM brake? I run one on my 28 nosler and it’s insane. I can watch the bullet trace through the scope. The rifle just doesn’t move.
All 4 cartridges have their place, we will find out what that is. I usually can't take a shot at Tikka's without it resulting in some sore butts. It's just the facts. Yes, it's an MBM. That's our go to for maximum recoil reduction. Thanks for coming along.
I can’t say enough about your “no B.S.” approach. I currently shoot a 6.5 SAUM for Mule deer hunting and am looking at getting into a Seven. Bring on the “no fluff” data!
I knew that approach would strike a cord with the audience base WE want. Dale and I are very much No BS guys and that will certainly come across in this series. Should be a fun ride.
Just subscribed. Looking forward to a Data driven approach to this cartridge comparison vs a "marketing" approach. Refreshing to see a custom rifle builder articulating a sensible distance limit for the majority of hunters today. Disappointing to hear new hunters emphasizing the distance of their kill vs the quality of the animal or the expediency of the kill.
Hey, there's a slice of honesty! Easy, turn-key, accurate and 2850fps in a 24" barrel. All facts! Like I said, it's a fine cartridge, but the box is nonsense. I promise you we will squeeze everything out of it that we can. Thanks for following the series!
Good stuff. I am really interested in this series. I have been shooting and hunting and reloading for 3 decades and you have already taught me quite a bit. I really appreciate the honesty & humility. I have (2) 7mmRemMags and really do like the 7s. Well done Sir. Subscribed!
Thank you for the kind words and for joining us on this exploration for the truth. Put your helmet on, the rabbit hole will only get deeper from here. This video was just hitting the wave tops.
Late to your series, but will get caught up. Regarding 7 PRC velocities, I got 2808 fps in a 22” barrel with Hornady 175gr ELD-X (5 shot average). I got 2937 fps (5 shots) same barrel with Federal’s offering using Hornady’s 175gr ELD-X bullet.
Thanks for the video. Myself, I started shooting 300 Win mag and 338 Win mag at 13 years old. I've made phenomenal shots with those two cartridges and classic rifles (Win. Model 70s). I'm only a target shooter when it comes to practice for my hunting. Now, without concern of action length with modern rifles, I may be looking at the 300 PRC with 230 gr to 250 gr bullets. For a modern hunting rifle, I'm sure I could have a 300 PRC with a 24" barrel that's lighter than my Model 70s in 300 and 338 Win mags. Also, I'm not concerned about hunting with a rifle having 26" barrel lengths, though 24" barrels with a 300 PRC would be sufficient. I'm looking at bullets with a high sectional density and high BC. Deep pass-through penetration and a terminal affect on large big game. Grizzly protection in the Northern Rocky's is more than adequate, but if I were to go Brown Bear hunting, I'd take take a 375 Ruger. And if I wanted a lighter cartridge for big game hunting, I'd be considering the 6.5 PRC, and it would be great for wolves and other predators. A one gun for hunting, the 7mm 175 gr to the 195 gr bullets are great, but im just not a one gun man, I enjoy having a variety to choose from. I'm not a 7 PRC fan boy, though it's a fine cartridge. In these days of modern cartridges, I'm not a fan of the belted magnum load. Maybe the 300 PRC will be necked down to 7mm, also necked up to 338, and my favorite, 358 diameter.
I am nowhere near close to being able to afford custom rifles at all. But I do reload and I do respect the hell out of you based upon the fact that you’re not just trying to push lying bullshit and just creating content. You talk about Tikka outside of that what box store gun would you suggest sub $1500 I wish I could afford more but with the ridiculous prices of everything right now it’s kind of out of my realm.
I’m glad you mentioned the 7mm/08. But why not showcase it too? I’m fond of keeping the round count on my main 300WSM moose/elk hunting rifle fairly low, and using a 708 or 308 as the high volume long range training rifle with the cheaper ELDX bullets. Actually, hunting Moose/Elk with a 7mm-08 is on my bucket list for the future. I will never be a bow hunter but getting in closer with a smaller cartridge is an intriguing challenge that I hope to experience in the future… The 7mm-08 is definitely no slouch… it is an extremely versatile cartridge that is a joy to shoot in high volume. Cheers!
We had to draw the line somewhere. The 7mm/08 is a fine cartridge but if you want to know what it's capable of, watch the series, take whatever we get from the 280AI and subtract 120fps. Tah-dah!
I'm excited for this series, I think it will be great! Having said that, considering it's handloading specific, I do wish you'd include the 7mm-08 and the 7 PRCW just for comparisons sake.
We will be testing some factory ammo in the rifles. The cartridges we chose, had some pretty strict criteria. They had to have long range factory ammo available. Which eliminates any wildcat. They had to have high quality brass available from the same manufacturer (Peterson) and they needed to span the velocity range of potential performance in a long action. With that criteria, the 2 cartridges you mentioned don't qualify. The 7mm-08 is a short action cartridge and will produce 100 to 150fps less than the 280 AI. The 7-6.5PRC would be best suited to a medium length (3.200") action and would be halfway between the 280AI and the 7 PRC for velocity. Thanks for watching.
Great question. For the PRC, yes. Not with the other cartridges. The 160gr CX is extremely long and needs a 1:8" twist or tighter to fully stabilize it.
Just bought a new Sako s20 in 7 mm Remington mag. They make the dbm an extra 1/4 inch longer for hand loads. Only hand loaded and shot it once so far. Best group was 1/3 inch group. I'm a fan of the rifle and the caliber. Looking forward to seeing your tests.
Very interesting video I have a 7mm stw built back in the early 90’s with a 27” barrel and it is a good rifle I am now building a 280 AI and I am doing it myself with some other friend doing the blueing I have a old 721 Remington and it’s chamber wasn’t cut straight too the bore in a 30-06 so being it doesn’t shoot good and always wanting to build one I ordered a barrel with a 1-8 twist 26” long pre threaded and short chambered and crowned now I am waiting on my finish reamer and go no go gauges I think it will be a fun project that will revive a rifle that wasn’t much good before doing this
Agree with you on the 3.6 OAL, did that some years back...lets the 7RM become what it should have been. Be interesting to see what you can do with it. A 180 Berger Hybrid seated to the 3.6 OAL in my rifle with Retumbo yealds 3020FPS. 26 inch barrel.
It's not an Earth shattering improvement but it certainly allows you to wring some more out of it. I'll explain why in the series. Getting 3020fps with a 180gr is serious performance. As an experiment, I took a 28" 7 Rem Mag and Ramshot LRT, I ran a 180gr SMK up to the limit, just to see where it was. I hit 3140fps and never found the limit but I ran out of room for powder. That was the "ah ha" moment for me, when I had proof that this cartridge had been under loaded for 60yrs. I saw your comment on 24hr Campfire, I'm glad we're stirring up a discussion, that's a good thing. It's better to hear first hand experience from each other, than to just swallow what we're fed from the industry marketing. Thanks for watching.
Great video. Looking forward to the series. I was dead set on a 7 PRC & was excited with the data out on it when it was released. After seeing some actual testing, I'm not so sure I just shouldn't build a 7 RM. Component availability plays a huge part in it. Thanks for taking us along.
@@LittleCrowGunworks I think I'm pretty late here haha. I'm currently looking at complementing my .308 Win with a .300 PRC. I live down in Namibia and do cull hunts for Gemsbok and other large antelope year-round that regularly requires 400m+ shots. I've found my .308 isn't quite what I want for the 600m+ shots, so I'd love to see a series about .30 cals. I'm especially interested in the recoil aspect, as I'm a smaller guy and while I'm not shy of the recoil, I prefer not to get punched. Due to price and availability, I'd likely buy a Howa 1500 Varmint and drop it in a chassis to get it around 15lbs, with a braked suppressor. I'd also be interested in what your thoughts are, whether it really is worth getting a factory .300 Win Mag or .300 WSM, when the twist rate limit you to stay around 200gr or lighter bullets and the COAL is restricted by the action length, vs the .300 PRC that can go even heavier and longer. I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and maybe even another video series in the future.
Looking forward to the the series but I fill the biggest deference between rifle cartridges is the factory rifle barrel and factory bullets offerings. With a custom build you can make a Rem Mag act just like the the PRC as well as other cartridges. Finding a non custom Remington Magnum in a 1:8 twist is hard an therefore have a hard time shooting the higher BC bullets. So i fill you are missing a big part on this comparison by using the same barrel on all the rifles but I aso understand that your guys build rifles so thats why your doing it.
I see your point. But comparing a 7 PRC in an 8 twist to a 7 Rem Mag in a 9.25 twist has been done to death and it's not relevant to most of us. Pointing out that a cartridge made in 1962 isn't as well thought out as one made 60 years later, isn't a big achievement. It's like, "OH, YOU DID BETTER THAN SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN CEMENTED IN TIME FOR 60 YEARS? GOOD FOR YOU!" When in reality, there are tight twist 7 Rem mags available, in custom and factory rifles. Take a 7 Rem Mag, add a tight twist and pull the bullet out of the case to THE SAME point as a 7 PRC and voila!!! You have a 62 year old 7 PRC with a belt.
I really like the 7's, I have two 7mm Rem's but my favorite 7 is a 7mm Rum. With 180 grain bullets shooting at about 3100 fps it is flat shooting and with my model 700 with a muzzle brake, doesn't kick too much at all. The main problem is this is extremely over bore and needs a longer barrel than the standard 26in barrel. With a 26in barrel you must use long heavy for caliber bullets, 150 or 160 grain bullets will make this a very inefficient cartridge, you will not get much more velocity than a 7mm Rem.
I couldn't agree more. If you had a 7 RUM with a 30" barrel, getting 3350fps with a 180 class bullet would be no problem with H50BMG. The same phenomenon exists in the 300 Magnums. With a 26" barrel, you can't get more than 4200lbs of muzzle energy. I don't care what the cartridge is. It can be a 300 Win Mag, 300 Weatherby, 300 Ultra, or 30-378 WBY. You can't squeeze more than 4200 ftlbs out of it. The bullet weight doesn't matter. Pick you're bullet weight, figure out how fast it needs to go to hit 4200 ftlbs and that's all the velocity you will get before you hit pressure signs. That number for 7mm's in a 26" barrel is about 4000 ftlbs. If you want more, you need a longer barrel. Thanks for watching.
I've been a fan of the WFT for a few years now - from a pair of 1's to load for rifles I no longer have, to the WFT 2 for my 9.3 Mauser and (most recently) my 280 Ackley, I have not found a better trimmer set up for me. Really looking forward to this series, especially for insight and ideas on loads for my 280 as it's the first long action I've absolutely loved shooting. As an aside, any chance you guys may put up a transcript for each episode on the site?
Here is what I’m pretty sure will happen: 28 Nosler is the fastest but only by 50-100fps and will have half the barrel life and a lot more recoil (not worth it IMO) 7mm Mag will beat the 7 PRC and will be pretty close to the 28. (This is the best choice IMO) 7mm PRC will beat the 280 but not the 7 Mag like Hornady advertises. 280 AI is a good choice for someone wanting less recoil, longer barrel life but it’s no match for the Magnums.
LOL, and now for your next trick? Should I just hand out the prize for "most similar guesstimate to my own" now? Or wait until the end? This isn't your first rodeo.
I just subscribed to your channel. Maine North Woods Hunter here. I am looking forward to this series. I purchased a couple years back what I considered my dream rifle. I got it in 7mm rem mag and then a few months later the 7 PRC came out and I was wondering if I should get that cartridge instead. The Gun is a Christensen Arms Messa LR. I am on disability and I know there are probably a lot better rifles but with my income, this was as much as I could afford. The gun shoots very well. It is a little on the heavy side but being a paraplegic I do a lot of my hunting sitting in my truck, a tree stand, or sitting on the ground. I can't wait to see the guns you make for this series. I am really curious to see the results and to see if I should worry about the difference between the PRC and the Rem Mag. Maine North Woods Hunter (RUclips)
Happy to have you come along. There's nothing wrong with a CA Mesa. When shooting factory ammo to reasonable ranges, there's really no difference between the 7 Rem and the 7 PRC. But handloading, I think the 7 Rem will have the edge. But we shall see!
As an owner of 2 of these cartridges, 280ai and 28 Nosler, I'm very excited to watch this series. Quick question, are you guys familiar with Hammer bullets? They're a company out of Montana making high quality monolithic hunting bullets. Weatherby currently loads factory 280ai ammo with 139gr Hammer Hunter bullets.
I have thank a bottle of water with an elk at 1000 yards and he finally turned browd side and I got into position re ranged him at 960 shored off on a high shoulder with almost no wind and what there was was straight into my face maybe 2 mph dialed and sit there and watched it finish nerve movement in less than 2 minutes. Walked down and started the working part of the hunt
..and the realities of 28 NOS are apparent right now in sales prices of factory guns, that chambering is selling for $2-300 less in the same platform than some of the more common calibers - both magnum and non-magnum. But of course someone who cares enough to order a custom hunting rifle would likely not be deterred by component cost/availability, barrel life just like you said, it's a drop in the bucket when someone who's a serious shooter/hunter looks at the ballistics.
That's right! We're going to show ALL the data. Reloading cost, estimated barrel life, performance, recoil, all of it. Then guys have ALL the information and can make the decision that's best for them. Some guys always buy the extra insurance and don't mind putting a new barrel on more frequently. Thanks for watching!
IF and only if you have enough barrel on it. Unfortunately, that cartridge needs a 30"+ barrel to show how ridiculous it is. Otherwise it's just a big fireworks show. Too bad that cartridge never caught on. It's a true unicorn. Thanks for watching.
Glad to have you aboard! The 7 WSM and 280AI are very similar to each other in reality because the bullet has to be stuffed way in the case of the 7 WSM to meet magazine length. If you weren't limited by mag length, the 7 WSM would be very similar tot the 7 PRC and 7 Rem Mag in terms of performance.
We thought so. It needed to be done and nobody is doing it. We just got tired of the incomplete/bad information out there. Believe me when I say, we are going to get everything we can out of these cartridges in a 26" barrel. I will find the ceiling and then find where it wants to shoot. Which is even more valuable. Not every cartridge will shoot well at max pressure. In fact, most don't. I'm sure all of the new subscribers either have a dog in the fight, or are about to. Thanks for following along!
I am very interested in what you are discussing here. I am not a very knowledgeable on reloading and have been thinking of picking it up. Plus i am just learning about the free bore of the rifle. I am curious though about since guys like yourself and i imagine they have smart guys at these factories, that if we now know that excessive free bore causes accuracy issues and that guns now are all capable in the modern actions ( not talking lever) of handling 65,000 psi. Why have the SAMMI specs not changed to match the current knowledge and metallurgy of today? Seems like current rifles would sell better. Like Col. Townsend said, " Only accurate rifles are interesting." If my memory serves me. Thanks for your time, and please forgive me for my ignorance. I am from South Carolina, and most long shots we have are on power lines and across big fields, which can be over 500 to 600 yrds. But most of the time, i am in the woods where my shots are much closer. Besides, most of the time, i would not take a shot over 200 to 300 yrds. For that is my confidence long at this time. I have killed more deer on small plots where my shots have been anywhere from right under the stand to 60 yrds at the most. Anyway thanks for your time and here to learn more to increase my confidence and knowledge that with practice to be able to go out west to be able to harvest an Elk one day. A bucket list item.
Thank you for watching. During the entirety of this series, I will probably give you more information than you want. But freebore will certainly be covered. I think all guns would shoot better if the chamber specs were updated to modern practices. But that costs a lot of money and may make obsolete, some certain older rifles if the ammo was updated to match the modern chamber design. Knowing your limitations and working to improve them is what we all should strive for. Thanks for watching.
Just joined I live 40miles from you guys thanks for incorporating your views on what is ethical. You gained a potential customer. I shoot 7 Rem mag, I love shooting always open to other calibers, looking foreward to watching this series and more
Ya mag length does suck on the tikkas but still love them lol. Always been able to make them shoot with multiple different loads. Very hard to beat for a cheaper factory option.
Here is some real data. My friend shoot a 7mm. The barrrels is like 27” but he decide to shoot the hornady 180 eldm. We bumped it out to 10 thousands of lands which is around 3.5 oal. Shoot around 3050 at muscle. Shoot about .1 Moa five shot group. I have shot .3 Moa group with 150 ballistic tip and with 150 eldx. The oal is close to 3.6. And pushes around 3150 fps. The seven mag is a very good cartridge period. Easy to find rounds and reloading supply. Plus it will kill game animal u want to shoot.
Nice talk, agree with everything you said. You omitted prc pressure issues found with hornady factory ammo by many shooters so kind of looking forward to it falling on its face. Rem mag for me i think, keen to see your development process. Thanks...
Thank you for your support. I will get to the current issues with all the cartridges in the series. The development I will be using in the series is a little different than most. Should be interesting.
Lol I easily achieved 3,035fps out of a 24inch 175eldx 7prc! Hit slight pressure approaching 3100fps no reason for me to beat my brass up! The fact the 7prc can almost achieve 28 nosler velocity within 150fps or so with 10gr less of powder was a no brainer! Can't wait for these videos!
Happy to have you along. All the facts will be on display for people to make an informed decision that's best for them. Diminishing returns is always a thing. Even from the 280 AI to the 7 PRC. It still applies...10 grains more powder, not much more speed.
Great stuff. That was one of my fastest subscriptions to a channel in quite some time
Wow, thanks!
The fact that you are a well experienced long range shooter, and dont support shots over 600 yards, and your straight forward outlook on advertised velocities, and different things, has me wanting to see your testing. Cant wait
We're just after the truth, crazy concept. Thanks for watching!
Your no-nonsense approach has me really looking forward to this series!
Happy to hear it. Apparently you're not alone. Thanks for joining us.
Congradulations on bringing target movement into long range hunting, as an ex sniper that has fired thousands of 300 win mag rounds I will never shoot at a moving big game animal period. I currently shoot a 28 Nosler and personally believe its the best big game cartridge up to brown bear with the Nosler 175gr ABLR. The comments of a fast cartridge being a barrel burner is so irrelevant to a hunting rifle that you only verify the zero before each hunt lets me separate the BS commenters from true knowledgeable shooters. Great presentation and I appreciate the cost and effort to bring truth to the shooting public, so thank you.
Thank you for the support! We're trying to bring you No BS content. People seem to be enjoying it.
I killed my first mulie buck, pronghorn buck, and cow elk with my uncle’s 280 Remington shooting hand loaded 140 Partitions. I killed my first bull elk with a 7MM REM Mag shooting 160 Partitions, also hand loads. So needless to say I have been a 7MM fan ever since. So, I’m really looking forward to this series. With that in mind, off to the series.
Thanks for joining us. It will be worth your time.
Finally! I can listen to the entire video and not shake my head. Looking forward to upcoming tests. I just subscribed. Thanks
Thanks John, I have my biases too. But they're based in experience, not rumors, internet comments or marketing hype.
Thank you for coming along on this adventure!
Me too
Been shooting 7prc for a year now .
Really like it so accurate not as fast as my 28 nosler but I seem to get .3o to
40 in 7prc and .85 out of my 28 nosler. Just found this chanell .
I appreciate your hard work...because it is in fact work! Your information is the truth so mostly I appreciate your honesty. Thank you for helping out the common man.
Thank you for the support. That was the goal. Show the truth, no matter what it is.
I just had a 280AI built on a Win70 action. Two elk do far and I love it. I totally agree I’m recoil sensitive and have zero desire for a bigger badder 7
You get it. You have to pick the cartridge that's right for you. At the end of the day, they can all do the job at reasonable ranges.
Absolutely love my 7MM Rem,first gun 1973
She's a dandy.
My first 7mm Rem 1975 Winchester Deluxe. To nice to pack into muskeg. Bought a Browning 7mm Rem Stalker. Both 1.5 inch at 200. Longest kill shot 485 yds Antelope.
I just bumped into your RUclips channel and subscribed. I am 69 and I hunted most of my life with a Remington 700 BDL DM in 7mm REM Mag. I have taken moose and deer with it and the only thing I did to it was having the barrel free floated and a Jewel trigger installed. Recently I was treating myself to a gift a new rifle. All the rage was the 7PRC and I considered buying it but after research I decided to get a Sako Precision in 7mm REM Mag. I stick with the calibre that I was familiar with and had great success with! I didn’t need the latest and greatest. My ammo for the 7mm is easy to get and the 7mm does the job for me. The longest shot I have taken with my 7mm was a 319 yard lung shot and the bull moose only went 50 yards and laid down. I love the 7mm for deer because I get very little shock and gel from the hit. Lately I stayed in the 7mm family and treated myself to a Tikka T3X in 7mm-08 but I removed the stock and replaced it with an MDT HNT26 Carbon Fibre chassis. Took my first buck with it this fall. I don’t think you can beat the 7mm family of calibers for performance. Oh and I watched the Gunwerks guy in a RUclips video say that he didn’t like the recoil from the 300PRC. Looking forward to the series from Northern Ontario.
Thank you for joining us! We thinks the 7's are pretty hard to beat. The 300's poke a slightly larger hole, but the recoil penalty is aggressive, for very little increase in terminal ballistics. All great cartridges you mentioned. Just learn their limitations and choose wisely.
The 7PRC and the 7RM (Available everywhere) are almost Identical in performace. 7PRC a bit shorter, longer bullets, same case cap. If your action/magazine in the 7RM will allow longer bullets, reloading will equal the 7PRC. But I doubt you need heavier than 180 Grns for the 7MM👍
I agree.
You had me at exit wound!!! Looking forward to series and seeing the rifle builds!!!
Right!?! Super underrated. New guys like the idea of "dumping all the energy in the animal"... Until they do that and he doesn't fall down and runs off and dies in some hell hole and you never find him. You only have to do that once and after that... a blood trail sounds pretty good. If you ask me, two busted shoulders AND an exit wound and a blood trail sounds pretty optimal to me.
Thanks for the support, welcome aboard.
Took my last five Whitetail with the ‘exploding’ target ELDX. None of them went more than 10 yards. No exit wounds either. But the entrance wounds bled enough if I needed to track them I could, but I never did. That’s what I like about the ‘exploding’ target bullets. Multiple wound channels have never required me to track an animal I shot. All five of my deer shots took out the heart and at least one of the lungs. Three of them took out the heart and both lungs. It’s all about bullet placement.
By the way, James Eagleman, the guy you speak highly of and rightly so, believes in the ‘exploding’ Berger target bullet. The same guy you said has forgotten more than most people know? Lol.
I will watch your new shows and see what you have to say about all of this.
Amen
@@edstettin6799 How much wasted meat did you generate?
@@KB-ld6ql no more than any other bullet would. I normally put it behind the shoulder, but sometimes I’ve gone in the shoulder so that shoulder with any bullet would be wasted. In my experience a fragmenting bullet doesn’t destroy any more meat than a Accubond or monolithic, ect.. At least I haven’t seen it. I think that’s a marketing lie by the other bullet manufactures to make Berger,Hornady bullets and the like look worse to the buyer.
My experience with an ELDX has been phenomenal. It’s extremely accurate and it does fragment inside of 100 yards. But it also destroys the organs much better than a solid bullet does. I always take out at least one lung and the heart and normally both lungs and the heart and the animal drops nearly immediately. No tracking required. I am a believer in multiple wound channels instead of just one.
The meat loss thing is pure, marketing BS in my opinion.
I do understand what Tim is saying in his videos about the monolithic and having an exit wound so you can track an elk if need be. But I guess if you place the bullet correctly, you wouldn’t have to worry about tracking it much. That’s just my opinion. I’m sure it’s happened either way many times. We all learned from our experiences.
Wow ! Some practical, common sense , no bullshit commentary ! Love it !! Can’t wait for more
Thanks Bill. Welcome to the channel. Thanks for coming along!
I am smiling because your experiences mirror mine. Thanks. J.
Hey John, which experiences? Can you elaborate on that a little? I think this is good for people to hear from others that aren't associated with producing the content.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Responding to my similar experience:. Bullet choice-I could talk about a flat based bullet that exploded on a large whitetails shoulder blade and me switching to Accubonds which have always worked for me. I now use Hornady solid copper and they work better for me - no lead in the meat. Your comments about OAL are similar to mine. I hunt primarily with a 7mag (although I have hunted and killed game with about 8 different rounds) and have always seated the bullets to be just short of the lands if the magazine would allow it and always use a chronograph when developing loads. My loads are hot compared to most books; as long as the bolt lift is easy, I feel I'm good. I then consider brass life. If I can't get 5 loading without the primer pockets opening, its too hot for my use. Your comments about factory loads mirror mine, that's why I always take my chronograph to the range; I like to deal with real numbers. I do not use a ballistic calculator for trajectory. I shoot to see how they fly and take written notes. I also shoot enough to make sure my experiences are repeatable.
Thank you for following up. Very parallel experiences. But I do use ballistic calculators. They can be remarkably accurate if your inputs are perfect. But they are all garbage in, garbage out systems. The solutions are only as good as the inputs.
Going 4 for 5 at 2073yds is all about problem solving. Knowing what's important, and what isn't, intuition and drawing from previous experience. The first time I shot 2100yds was 8 years ago. It's not new territory. Explored territory is just that. Once you've done it successfully, you can draw from it on future shots. Just like anything else in life.
It appears your reloading practices are sound. But don't shy away from the technology. It can be incredibly effective when you know how to exploit it.
Excellent video mate very interesting and no bullshit well done, I love the 7mm cartridges the wind bucking ability and lack of recoil and how flat they shoot nothing compares, I have 6.5 also 30cal and 338 they all serve a purpose and do their purpose well but they don’t keep up with the 7 rem mag I own, I recently done some measurements and it’s grown 50thou in the last 350 shots so I seated out another 50thou and put another 2 grains of powder in and wow!! It’s shooting 162gr at 3156fps with no pressure and 0.3moa, long live the rem mag 💪🏼
Thank you for the kind words. That's the goal here, present real data and let folks make informed decisions. thanks for joining us. Cheers
I had a 270 once, reloaded for it and hunted many times. But the gun that I lost the most deer with was the 270. I’ll never own a 270 again. I’m a good tracker and find my game more than most but for whatever reason the 270 failed to kill or have a through and through for blood trailing with grand slams. It was very accurate, just not deadly enough. Interestingly I had a 243 that I also reloaded for and I never, ever lost a deer with it. I also witnessed a deer shot with a 7mm mag and I was looking at the deer with bingos and saw the hit behind the shoulder. The deer went down then got up and took off into the brush before my friend could get off a shot. At 30 yards with a 7mm you wouldn’t expect the deer to get up and go but it did. On my property, so I had the opportunity to search for it every day and eventually crows since they feed on dead animals but I never did find it. 270 just isn’t good enough.
I`m lucky to have a son that is as interested in this stuff as I. We have been shooting together for a long time, H.P. , hunting and the such... we always liked the challenge of shooting distance...to the point of him building a .338 U.M.,cause he always wanted to shoot to a mile. So he did, and we did. I acted as a spotter down range with a radio, called his first two short, and he put the next three on target. Impressive. 300 grn Sierra.
BTB, he builds our rifles on trued 700`s.
As you are handloading this stuff, and it`s custom, push the throat out a bit on the 7 RM...and show us what it can do.
Thanks
That's great that you guys are able to do that together. My dad was with me when we made that most recent shot that I mentioned, but as a spectator. He is fascinated by the concept and loves to watch, but he doesn't get involved.
It makes things much easier with a froward observer. Despite my skill, I haven't been able to convince anyone to volunteer for that job, ha ha ha.
Trued 700's work fine for most jobs.
Thanks for watching!
Can't wait! Most interesting info I've seen on RUclips in a while. Been shooting 7 mag for 3 decades. I'll be watching. Let the chips fall were they may 👍🏻
Hey alright! I'll take it. There's nothing wrong with the 7 you have. It's gonna be a great show. Thanks for coming along.
Just joined your Chanel. Love it. Finally I can listen to someone who knows their stuff and doesn't sugar coat anything,, or is bias towards certain cartridges. Great work!
Welcome aboard! I try to get to the point, sometimes I ramble. Brace for rambling... Ha.
Thanks for the positive feedback!
That`s interesting...thanks. The Berger I`m shooting is their 180 Hybrid Target, which depending on tip formation measures 1.53 to 1.56. My OA Cartridge length is 3.6, plus-minus bullet tip, CBO is 3.856. Needless to say, we pushed the throat out a bit to get the measurements. Seems to work. The rifle just pounds with this load.Thanks for talking and the info, and good luck with the project...looking forward to it.
Thanks man, we're looking forward to it as well.
Wow none of my hybrid 180’s have been over 1.525”. Interesting
@@orr89rocz You are correct...I measured again...don`t know what happened there.
I totally agree. I will never ever use an eld on anything with hair ever again. The blood trail comes from a pass through or combo mouth/nostril lung along with pass through. Not to mention meat loss. Hornady ballistic claims cannot be met with my 7mm Rem either. Bonded bullets only for me. Nosler 160gr Accubond performs as designed. My fave.
All great points. Thank you for the support.
Dale and Tim,
So here I was passing the time by watching yet another “regurgitated information cartridge comparison” video when YOUR/THIS video appeared on my side bar. I was pleasantly interested in that you are now making videos on what your shop does. NICE !! Being a user and advocate of 7MM cartridges for decades above other caliber options, the title certainly piqued my interest. (I use and hunt multiple calibers and chamberings, but conclude .284 is a very wise option.) Five minutes into this Tim, this video did not disappoint.
I have been shooting and hunting the 7mm Rem. Mag (1980), 7mm RUM (2003) and .280 Ackley (2015), so your 7mm cartridge choices as comparison certainly have my attention.
External performance wise, they most certainly overlap some, and mine are in different rifles, all of “classic” design, because that’s what I prefer in a carryable, yet stable shooting platform at the moment of truth in a hunting rifle, and for visual esthetics to this user. They are of moderate weight and for reasons that compliment the balance of carry and stable and steady performance upon firing at game. Each have been used on multiple species of big game.
Everything you highlighted I most wholeheartedly agree 100% with in terms of cartridge design and potential if the rifle is set up properly.
KUDOS to you for having the fortitude to call BS in the latest marketing scheme of Big H’s latest design parameters and factory muzzle velocity hype on the 7MM PRC. It certainly is a fine cartridge, BUT, volume/capacity at a given psi pressure level, and barrel length is what determines muzzle velocity. Rifle set up with COAL in a proper length action (i.e. Rem 700, etc.) and chamber/freebore characteristics and terminal bullet choice further tweaks the end result. That’s it. There is no magic, just desirable set up and characteristics in rifle, action, chamber, barrel, and bullet.
Informed enthusiasts know where you are likely going with all this in your subsequent videos. I really look forward to them.
Thank You for FINALLY offering a video that is educated, informed, and truthful on all things rifle. Please keep them coming.
WOW! This may be the most well written comment in the history of gun channels. Kudos to you for taking the time to write it. Thank you for the kind words and support.
Dale and I are equally passionate about honest information. We both have handloaded for countless cartridges and we know what cartridges can do and what cartridges can't do. We are going to be launching a line of rifles with specific components chosen for specific reasons. This series is step one. Harvesting real data, so we have "turn-key" information to hand to our customers when they purchase a rifle package from us.
We literally have zero interest in cranking out thousands of average rifles per year with no data to support them. We want to build the very best rifles we can with components that work well together, leave nothing to be desired and flat out hammer. If that means we deliver 50 rifle packages per year, then that's what it means. If you look carefully at the thumbnail, the first three shots including the cold bore, shot a .146" group @ 100yds. That was shot with the 28 Nosler shown in this video @ just below peak pressure. When I say hammer, I mean hammer.
Along the way, while planning, we decided we could offer incredibly valuable information to the hunting/shooting public.
Guys won't have to wonder what one of these cartridges can do, we're going to PROVE what they can do.
This video was just skimming the surface of the forthcoming information. You guys have no idea what's coming. Dale and I are super pumped about it.
See ya around in the comments, welcome aboard.
Tim,
Well, thanks for the kudos on my comments ! Much appreciated, for sure. Am happy to share my thoughts with you both, and your viewers.
Please say “hi” to Dale for me. I have been to your shop but twice so far, but certainly intend to have you folks do work for me again.
After accidentally dropping my shoulder slung M700 APR (Custom Shop) .300 RUM, falling off my shoulder getting into one of my deer stands a couple of years ago in the dark, wee hours of the morning, I brought it to Dale because something happened to the bedding and normally butter smooth action during that fall. The groups had opened up. I showed Dale the before, and after the fall, targets. He paused from his work, and took the time to look it over, and we had some great rifle looney conversation.
(he also took the time to bore-scope my .22-250 brought along, just ‘cause it’s been “white hot” shooting prairie dogs far too often)
Dale pillar bedded, re-glassed the action, and floated the barrel. Happy to report it now shoots nice tiny clusters again. Beautiful work.
Personal goes a long ways with customers, for sure.
Again, am excited to follow your videos. Thank you again.
Paul, from Park Rapids. @@LittleCrowGunworks
Gday from Australia. This is the first time I’ve seen one of your videos. I subscribed about 2 minutes in! I love your approach and I’m looking forward to this series. 👍🏼
Thank you for the support! Welcome aboard, cheers.
Awesome. Looking forward to watching this. I currently have the 7mm mag.
Thanks for coming along on the adventure! Great choice.
Refreshing to hear some honesty through experience. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Thanks for watching!
The one thing about the 7 mm’s that always amazes me is just how good the 7x57 Mauser is and how ahead of its time it was for being introduced in 1892!
looking forward to this series, but agree for big game out west the long actions are the way to go!
The 7x57 is an amazing cartridge. It certainly has it's place to shine. Even in a modern custom rifle where cartridge overall length is not a limitation and with modern brass, it would be comparable to a 7mm-08 in terms of performance. Which is certainly no slouch, but those two cartridges choke on big 160gr+ bullets. Especially the 7mm-08 in a short action because you have to stuff the bullet so far in the case to fit within magazine length.
Thanks for watching!
Especially since the powders of the day couldn't get the fps to the level we can today
Absolutely. I think the 7x57 with VV N540 or N550 would make magic happen.
Really looking forward to the results. Just shared your video on my channel
Hey man, I appreciate it. I've seen your channel before. Those of us that "get it" need to stick together.
Thanks for coming along on the adventure.
@LittleCrowGunworks I'm getting a 7mm PRC soon... to show the actual real world numbers with factory ammo and handload ammo.
Which is WAY more relevant info than reading a number off a box.
Yep came here from ur channel 😂
Thx, very kind of you to take the time to informe me.
Like I said in the video, happy to help.
Looking forward to your videos. I was in the fence on what 7mm I wanted to build. I ended up finding lots of components and went with a 7saum in. long action with a good amount of freebore. It runs 180s real close to 2900fps and is very accurate it’ll do everything I ever need it to do. I also agree with light rifles.
Wow, 7 RSAUM in a long action. Don't hear that everyday. That is one of the best cartridges that never took off.
Wadda ya mean? Light rifles are great! Until you shoot one.
These days with the better bullets available, it seems to me that most hunters do not need an overbore mega magnum. As such, the 28N is really a niche option. On the other hand, you take a 280AI with a 168gr Nosler ABLR going 2800fps… and you have an efficient, well balanced, shootable cartridge that can deliver 2200fps/1800ftlb all the way out to 500m at 3500ft DA. I think for most ethical long range hunters that is plenty of payload delivered on target, and performance beyond that is in the realm of diminishing returns.
For perspective, my actual 300WSM moose/elk rifle and 175gr Barnes LRX at 3060fps MV can deliver 2230fps/1930ftlb to 500m. This comparison makes me feel very impressed with the efficiency of the 280AI paired with the 168gr ABLR.
Cheers!
You will see that in this series. When an efficient projectile is used, the extra velocity only helps under certain circumstances.
Just found you I like your no nonsense presentation of facts...
Like another guy said here in the comments, you had me at exit wound 👍
Thanks for coming along Harry! You have some catching up to do!
Looking forward to this. I like the necked down 300 win mags too. Like 7mm Practical.
I’d like to design a 7x57 Mauser case with the shoulders pushed forward, have a .290 long neck in an improved case with either 35 or 40 degree shoulders.
It’d be just fun to design and totally not needed.
7-300WM is a dynamite cartridge. Halfway between the 7 Rem Mag and the 28 Nosler for performance.
Ive recently run across the 7mm-300prc. People necking down the 300prc to 7mm for anyone unfamilliar with wildcatting designstions. Caught my intetest.
@@amac4170 That 300 PRC necked to down to .284 has my interest too!
Sherman has an improved version. Not that it needed improving.
Straight forward and no BS. I love it!!!
HA! I'm glad there will be one person following this series that appreciates my approach. Thanks for coming along.
Hey Man, I really appreciate your point on “ethical” hunting…especially from an accomplished shooter like you. Thank you for that.
“Ethical behavior is doing the right thing when no one else is watching- even when doing the wrong thing is legal.”
― Aldo Leopold
Just because you CAN shoot that far, doesn't mean you SHOULD.
Looking forward to hearing your take on the 7mm's, a personal favorite of mine for over 40yrs now. In my meagre collection, 7mm-08, 7mm Wsm, 7X61 S&H ( the last rifle I would ever part with) and 7mm Wby fill my needs. Any shoutout for the last three would put a big grin on this old guys face.
Thanks for the feedback Bill. All great cartridges you listed.
Our main criteria for our cartridge selection was: Long action, does Lapua or Peterson make brass, are the cartridges we're selecting, similar enough in performance to other more obscure 7mm cartridges where we can say we adequately covered the velocity spectrum?
To you're example: the 7 WSM and 7x61 S&H are very similar to the 280AI. While the 7 WBY Mag and 7 Rem Mag have identical case capacity/performance. The 28 Nosler and the 7mm STW are mathematically identical other than their shape.
I will cover these comparisons in detail during this series as well. I want guys to be able to use the cartridges we chose as a proxy for all 7mm's. Meaning, you can pick a 280AI or a 7x61 S&H. If you have the same barrel length, good brass and stand on each cartridge just as hard, they will produce nearly identical velocities. Comparisons like that from an unbiased source are very helpful for guys that don't know and are trying to make good decisions.
Thanks for coming along!
Someone finally approached this with objective reason. I’ve been waiting for a channel to make a video or series about this that isn’t mired with fudd lore or overhype of the modern design.
Wow, this is EXACTLY what we were after. Thanks for coming along!
An evidence based approach Love your thinking Can’t wait
Much appreciated, thanks for joining us!
I think if hornady actually loaded to their advertised spec 7PRC would get a lot less negative criticism. Federal seems to load their 7PRC to advertised velocities. But if we get into an ammo crunch, federal ammo seems to be the first to disappear. Overall- I like where the PRC cartridges are pushing the entire industry - faster twist rates in barrels for example. This not only benefits the prc guns, but guns shooting “legacy” cartridges that still hold their own despite not getting the marketing hype. Hell if we were all honest with ourselves, 30-06, with modern bullets/powder/twist rates, can be used for anything in North America and does so without the fanfare.
All good points. The Hornady cartridges are a good thing for the industry, absolutely. But they're not anything new to those of us that handload and have been meeting or exceeding the Hornady cartridge performance for years.
Yes, I have done this enough to say that your 30-06 comment is correct. Good bullet, adequate velocity and bore diameter = dead critter.
Subscribed. Like the no BS straight to the facts. Learning so much, love my 7 Rem Mag
Glad to hear it, welcome aboard! I appreciate the feedback. There will be plenty of learning happening for lots of folks.
I own four 280ai two 26"barrel and two 28" various load work up with use of conagraph long before nosler gave it a boost. Thanks to Nosler we got reloading guides. Also 284win with a 24" barrel will give a 7mm remington a challenge.
Hey a guy that appreciates barrel length! The SHORTEST barrel I own is 26 inches! HA.
The 280AI and the 284 are kissing cousins. Same performance when treated equally. Which is very similar to a Factory 7 Rem Mag. But the way we are treating the 7 Rem Mag with the handloads, it will be in a different class than the .473 bolt faced 7's.
Thanks for watching!
I like it. You obviously know your stuff. I did become less interested when I found out this is essentially a fully custom scenario. There are so many affordable factory rifles that cost a fraction of a custom rifle and aren't chambered for the longer than SAAMI spec ammo. I will watch your findings as I love to see good testing, but I'm not very interested in having to get a custom rifle and hand load all my ammo when I can get a sub MOA gun for $600. I know it's not sexy, but most of us are in the factory boat due to costs. I know the 7 prc has been hyped a lot, but it does have the good chamber dimensions and ammo in the factory offerings. I'll never need anything more than a 308 where I live, but what hunter doesn't like to think about the "if" scenario of getting to hunt in open country some day. Cheers
Hey man I get it. We're not trying to say this is for everyone. If guys want to see 1 MOA groups with $600 factory rifles, they can watch Backfire or any one of the countless other lame channels putting out uninteresting, "done to death" content.
If we just wanted views, that's what we would do. This series is going to show what's possible for 7mm cartridges. How premium factory ammo shoots in custom rifles, to get a baseline and how much performance can be improved by handloading.
We regularly produce rifles that shoot sub 1/4 MOA groups at 100yds and will stack five shots on a credit card, over 600yds away. There are guys that want that, and don't care what it costs. This series is targeting them.
If in the process, we can relay a ton of honest, science/reality based information to the general shooting public, all the better. Because you're NOT getting it from most other channels out there.
Thanks for coming along.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Thank you for the top quality reply. It reflects on your mentality and attention to detail. You're totally right about the cheap guns being done to death on youtube. I'm looking forward to seeing what set of custom rifles can do in this bore diameter. 7mm does seem to be the sweet spot. Who knows, maybe I'll bite the bullet and get a custom rifle I can pass on one day.
You earned a sub so I can watch you do your thing!
Happy to hear it. At a minimum, it won't be time wasted on another speculation video that compares paper numbers. I promise this series will include content that you have never seen anywhere else. It's gonna be fun.
Great video. I have the 280 ai, 7 PRC and 7 rem mag. My custom 7prc will not do anything that my 7 mag cannot already do. Hornady factory 175’s only do 2900 out of my 24” barreled PRC. 168 LRX’s run at 2875ish with H4831sc. Nothing amazing out of that cartridge so far.
Thanks Ed, and that's the point. The differences between these cartridges when treated fairly is nothing like the marketing would have you believe. Not everyone chases speed but the 7PRC will come to life with N565.
Thanks for watching.
Retired Chief Warrant Officer 4 Ranger Sniper Advancing To Tier 1 JSOC (CAG) 18 Delta Force Squad D & G. I Appreciate The Straight From The Hip Facts. My 2 Extreme Real Estate Firearms Were & Still Are My MK-21 & MK 22 In .300 Norma Mag. My SF Community Comrades Are Big On 30-06 Between 400-600 & Also Where Most So Many Cartridges Necked Up Or Down & The Others Go With 7mm Mag. We Always Considered The Accuracy & Robust Reliability. Over The Top Information. Keep It Coming.
Thanks Dallas, welcome aboard!
I Really Appreciate The Real Direct Matter Of Fact Approach. 32 + Years In Military My MOS Was (Either Your Right Or Wrong) Lives Always Depended On It. Again; Plz Keep The Footage Coming. On The Private Sector/Citizen This Is 1 Of 3 Best Footage I Have Come Across In The Civilian Sector. The Other 2 Is 1. Paramount Tactical Solutions/Green Beret Made Good With A Off The Charts Channel & 2. Frogman/Navy Seal Off The Charts As Well. I Will Shout Loud & Proud In The Right Context About Your Channel.👍🤛🇺🇸
@@LittleCrowGunworks Lastly. Almost All Other Channels Are Being Payed To Promote Or Have Endorsements So To Speak. However Your Operation Is Raw Here It Is Material Supported By Real Deal & Real Time Facts. Keep Your Head On A Swivel. Chief. Out.
That's just it man, there's always an agenda. The agenda is rarely tied to reality. We're hoping this series format will set a new standard for how things SHOULD be compared in our industry.
Thank you for the kind words Dallas. I promise this series won't disappoint.
Appreciate the reasonable take on shooting distances. Gunwerks and their constant glorification of stupidly long shots on game really grinds my gears.
I was getting ready to pull the trigger on a 7 PRC and seeing this video was enough to give me pause. There is a lot of hype on the 7 PRC and very hard to separate fact from fiction. As an intro, this video contained some great "no BS" information. I am looking forward to following your series. Thank you!
You have a lot of catching up to do! We're releasing Part 8 this week!
There is nothing wrong with the 7PRC. It's becoming popular, and the new Kid on the block. Not much better than the rest. Equal to the 7RM. Next year will build a 7MM for grandson. It will be in 7RM. Just because it is available 10 to 1 to any other 7MM, Wherever you travel in North America you will find it in any back road Fish and Tackle store. I reload, so will build in a 3.8" Long/Mag controlled feed action(Like a M70 or Ruger M77) to be able to use the longer Bullets seated out. The sweet spot for hunting is between 160-175 Grns bullets, Max 180 grns. You can still use the Std 1 in 9 twist. If You want the fastest 28 Nosler, and if you build it/get it in 3.8" action then seating out Bullets gets you some extra Grns of powder and a bit more than 3.3K fps with a 175 Grns. Hot Rod
Love the 280AI!
Sub'd in the 1st 10 minutes. I respect a no BS approach to life. Looking forward to this series and other videos you post. Best of luck in your endeavors.
Awesome Jeffrey! Thanks man. Life's better when you get to the point. Happy to have you aboard.
I will run sims of all those 4 Calibers with same the bullet. As a matter of fact, since case capacity/powder are the only variables. The Caliber with the largest case capacity would generate the highest MV.
However, with modern calibers such as the PRC series, the caliber is meant to shoot long/heavy bullet for the caliber with higher BC. Higher BC means less wind deflection and more energy at the target.
I will also provide Exterior Ballistics Analysis too for the same bullet loads and for the highest BC per weight bullet, i.e. the bullet with minimum G7 form factor that can be stabilized with cartridge standard twist rate
Thanks for coming along with us. I intend to include load simulation data, hit probability simulations. We also will be discussing form factor, sectional density and how the two are related.
I've mentioned this to many people, but this series will be unlike any other.
Excellent, definitely tuning in to the series, love that slide guitar, cheers Yogi ✌️🤙🇦🇺
Glad you're along for the ride Yogi. This will ruffle some feathers, but at least it's good information.
Cheers
@@LittleCrowGunworks Ruffle away mate, just makes it that more enjoyable, seriously I’m looking forward to it mate, if all goes to plan we will hopefully be doing some business together, just got to look into how to get the goodies to down under, take care and stay safe mate, cheers Yogi ✌️🤙
I’m going to buy a 7mm….so needless to say I’m very interested in this series……I will say most guys can’t afford a custom hunting rifle and most of the people I speak with at the range don’t hand load so I think people should educate themselves on multiple platforms if they fall into the factory rifle and ammunition group.
I will lay that out in this series. But to your point, if you are in the factory rifle and factory ammunition group, you buy a 7 PRC and don't look back. Period, the end.
Or a 28 Nosler. But it's usually fair to say that guys in the factory bucket get less trigger time than those in the custom and or handload bucket, which means guys in the factory bucket probably have no business starting with a monster like a 28 Nosler.
Thanks for validating my results. Have shot and worked up safe 175 gr loads for this cartridge and come up very short of 3000 f/s. Factory eldx loads shot great but 2,825- 2,875 is where they fall.
You're not alone. Just remember, that doesn't mean the bullets will bounce off the animal.
As far as im concerned Hornaday should have left the 7 prc the same length as the 300 prc .I built a 7-300 prc match and it will really perform. I believe it is a better case design than the 28 nosler but that is my personal opinion. Finally a good long range rifle system needs to have some weight to it or its not going to work out well. In a hunting environment we need to be able to spot the impact our self .
I agree on all points.
Looking forward to this non bias (no bs) comparison. I’ve always wanted a 7 and recently purchased a 7 PRC. 22” barrel Factory loads are well shy of 3000 but I frankly am not one to chase velocity. Whether reloading CX160’s or Berger 180’s my limit is 600 and both will get the job done
Good points. No argument here. I think people are assuming I think that a Berger or an ELDX won't kill stuff. They absolutely will. But will they consistently do it in a way that you NEVER need to track the animal and don't need a blood trail? I don't think so.
This is fantastic! I’m excited for this. Thanks for committing to providing information on these cartridges. In your series, could you also briefly comment on factory offerings? I know you alluded to the 3.34” SAMI specs, but would also be interested in knowing a bit more about that, as I have not personally started hand loading yet. I do think the best comparison is what you’re doing with the same bullet, same barrel length etc. so I’m most interested in these results.
Thanks Joel, I intend to go way more in depth about these cartridge overall lengths, how to determine them and why they are relevant. As I mentioned we will also be testing some factory ammo offerings, so we have a baseline of "factory" performance to compare to.
Thanks for coming along!
Bring it on ! I own 3 of the big 7,s except for the 28 Nosler. I am tired of all the Hornady promotional lies. I own the 7 prc nice round but too much bs. I am 78 years old been a meat packer in Alaska in my younger years, (learned a lot about terminal damage of different bullets, etc). reloading over 65 years so, even used the trimmers you guys made, dale developed a recoil lug system for the 1022 that helped me a bunch. so I can see where this series is heading for just judging from the intro the 28 Nosler will out shine the rest. Looking forward to your new series, I can tell you know your stuff by the intro. will be fun !
Thank you for all the kind words and support Otto. The brass trimmers and GRX recoil lug for the 10/22 have been amazing products for Dale.
So far the 28 Nosler load development is done and man does that thing shoot!
Thanks for coming along!
I own the same three you do. I’m curious which one you’d pick. If I could only have one today I think get a new 7rm but I’ve always said if I could only have one cartridge for life it would be a 280ai.
Love the 280AI! Great round for the recoil level. 7rm is great also. Like them both.
He is 100% right about a tikka. I built a custom rem mag with an tikka and I’m loading to 3.5”, a lot of work went into getting that to work. Redsnake bottom metal and had a smith open the action up to except to 3.612”. Never did do a long throat than Saami though. Didn’t feel the need since I got the performance I was looking for. But I do regret doing the tikka action. I always say choose a 7 rem mag over a PRC unless you go with a tikka. Then get the PRC. I’ll stick to custom rifles and the 7 rem mag or 30-06.
Also for the channel. Is that a MBM brake? I run one on my 28 nosler and it’s insane. I can watch the bullet trace through the scope. The rifle just doesn’t move.
All 4 cartridges have their place, we will find out what that is. I usually can't take a shot at Tikka's without it resulting in some sore butts. It's just the facts.
Yes, it's an MBM. That's our go to for maximum recoil reduction. Thanks for coming along.
I can’t say enough about your “no B.S.” approach. I currently shoot a 6.5 SAUM for Mule deer hunting and am looking at getting into a Seven. Bring on the “no fluff” data!
I knew that approach would strike a cord with the audience base WE want. Dale and I are very much No BS guys and that will certainly come across in this series.
Should be a fun ride.
Just subscribed. Looking forward to a Data driven approach to this cartridge comparison vs a "marketing" approach. Refreshing to see a custom rifle builder articulating a sensible distance limit for the majority of hunters today. Disappointing to hear new hunters emphasizing the distance of their kill vs the quality of the animal or the expediency of the kill.
All great points. That's the goal man, truth and data. If I can give you a chuckle every now and then, all the better.
Thanks for coming along.
Looking forward to this series. Of the four I have the PRC ,very accurate, tossing the factory 180eld-m at 2850 from a 24" barrel.
Hey, there's a slice of honesty! Easy, turn-key, accurate and 2850fps in a 24" barrel. All facts! Like I said, it's a fine cartridge, but the box is nonsense. I promise you we will squeeze everything out of it that we can.
Thanks for following the series!
Yep 2850 to 2860 with the 175 now the 170 grain terminal ascent will get to 3,000 but the Hornady bs is just that bs
Good stuff. I am really interested in this series. I have been shooting and hunting and reloading for 3 decades and you have already taught me quite a bit. I really appreciate the honesty & humility.
I have (2) 7mmRemMags and really do like the 7s. Well done Sir. Subscribed!
Thank you for the kind words and for joining us on this exploration for the truth. Put your helmet on, the rabbit hole will only get deeper from here. This video was just hitting the wave tops.
I just found your channel. I am really looking forward to learning more about your rifles, load development & the cartridge comparison.
Glad to hear it! Welcome aboard!
Dang! I wish I would have found this video 10 months from now! Now I have to be patient 😂
Isn't that the way it always goes?
Thanks for joining us!
Late to your series, but will get caught up. Regarding 7 PRC velocities, I got 2808 fps in a 22” barrel with Hornady 175gr ELD-X (5 shot average). I got 2937 fps (5 shots) same barrel with Federal’s offering using Hornady’s 175gr ELD-X bullet.
Your velocity data is identical to what I have seen.
You aren't late to the party, you're right on time.
Thanks for the video. Myself, I
started shooting 300 Win mag and 338 Win mag at 13 years old. I've made phenomenal shots with those two cartridges and classic rifles (Win. Model 70s). I'm only a target shooter when it comes to practice for my hunting. Now, without concern of action length with modern rifles, I may be looking at the 300 PRC with 230 gr to 250 gr bullets. For a modern hunting rifle, I'm sure I could have a 300 PRC with a 24" barrel that's lighter than my Model 70s in 300 and 338 Win mags. Also, I'm not concerned about hunting with a rifle having 26" barrel lengths, though 24" barrels with a 300 PRC would be sufficient. I'm looking at bullets with a high sectional density and high BC. Deep pass-through penetration and a terminal affect on large big game. Grizzly protection in the Northern Rocky's is more than adequate, but if I were to go Brown Bear hunting, I'd take take a 375 Ruger. And if I wanted a lighter cartridge for big game hunting, I'd be considering the 6.5 PRC, and it would be great for wolves and other predators. A one gun for hunting, the 7mm 175 gr to the 195 gr bullets are great, but im just not a one gun man, I enjoy having a variety to choose from. I'm not a 7 PRC fan boy, though it's a fine cartridge. In these days of modern cartridges, I'm not a fan of the belted magnum load. Maybe the 300 PRC will be necked down to 7mm, also necked up to 338, and my favorite, 358 diameter.
Good stuff
@@LittleCrowGunworks thanks man! Back atcha 👍
“Don’t let barrel life be the decision factor”. Finally someone who speaks the 28 Nosler gospel! But it does push me around!
The stupid cartridge I use is 200+ fps FASTER than a 28 Nosler!
Did you know, they make new barrels 5 days a week!?! LOL
Cant wait for this to unfold !!! 👍🏻👍🏻
You and me both! Ha ha ha.
Thanks for following my ramblings...
I am nowhere near close to being able to afford custom rifles at all. But I do reload and I do respect the hell out of you based upon the fact that you’re not just trying to push lying bullshit and just creating content. You talk about Tikka outside of that what box store gun would you suggest sub $1500 I wish I could afford more but with the ridiculous prices of everything right now it’s kind of out of my realm.
Thank you for the support.
Browning X Bolt Max Long Range
or Browning X Bolt Hells Canyon Max LR (if you want some color).
Great video!! My 7 mm PRC eldx bullets are only getting 2845 22 inch barrel. BUT the federal bullets are getting 2950-3000.
I’m glad you mentioned the 7mm/08. But why not showcase it too?
I’m fond of keeping the round count on my main 300WSM moose/elk hunting rifle fairly low, and using a 708 or 308 as the high volume long range training rifle with the cheaper ELDX bullets.
Actually, hunting Moose/Elk with a 7mm-08 is on my bucket list for the future.
I will never be a bow hunter but getting in closer with a smaller cartridge is an intriguing challenge that I hope to experience in the future… The 7mm-08 is definitely no slouch… it is an extremely versatile cartridge that is a joy to shoot in high volume.
Cheers!
We had to draw the line somewhere. The 7mm/08 is a fine cartridge but if you want to know what it's capable of, watch the series, take whatever we get from the 280AI and subtract 120fps. Tah-dah!
I'm excited for this series, I think it will be great!
Having said that, considering it's handloading specific, I do wish you'd include the 7mm-08 and the 7 PRCW just for comparisons sake.
We will be testing some factory ammo in the rifles. The cartridges we chose, had some pretty strict criteria. They had to have long range factory ammo available. Which eliminates any wildcat. They had to have high quality brass available from the same manufacturer (Peterson) and they needed to span the velocity range of potential performance in a long action. With that criteria, the 2 cartridges you mentioned don't qualify.
The 7mm-08 is a short action cartridge and will produce 100 to 150fps less than the 280 AI. The 7-6.5PRC would be best suited to a medium length (3.200") action and would be halfway between the 280AI and the 7 PRC for velocity.
Thanks for watching.
Alot of good info allready in first "episode". I can tell that you are no BS guy. Thumps Up!
We appreciate that! Thanks for watching! Lots more to come.
Would the 160 CX stabilize in all cartridges with the standard SAAMI twist rate? Thx
Great question. For the PRC, yes. Not with the other cartridges. The 160gr CX is extremely long and needs a 1:8" twist or tighter to fully stabilize it.
@@LittleCrowGunworks thx. But you got that dimension covered by comparing the best factory offerings. Great concept for the series!
Just bought a new Sako s20 in 7 mm Remington mag. They make the dbm an extra 1/4 inch longer for hand loads. Only hand loaded and shot it once so far. Best group was 1/3 inch group. I'm a fan of the rifle and the caliber. Looking forward to seeing your tests.
Thanks for coming along!
Very interesting video I have a 7mm stw built back in the early 90’s with a 27” barrel and it is a good rifle I am now building a 280 AI and I am doing it myself with some other friend doing the blueing I have a old 721 Remington and it’s chamber wasn’t cut straight too the bore in a 30-06 so being it doesn’t shoot good and always wanting to build one I ordered a barrel with a 1-8 twist 26” long pre threaded and short chambered and crowned now I am waiting on my finish reamer and go no go gauges I think it will be a fun project that will revive a rifle that wasn’t much good before doing this
Good luck with the project! Thanks for coming along!
Thanks...and now you talked me into getting some of thoese Hornady projectiles..
Make sure you have adequate twist for the 160gr. You need an 8" twist minimum. They are super long!
Thank you so much!!! I agree with your words. Yes 600 yards is true in my book. I am a 7mm lover too
This is gonna be awesome? Thanks for taking the time out to do this.
You bet. It needed to happen and nobody else is actually testing all these things. Thanks for coming along.
Agree with you on the 3.6 OAL, did that some years back...lets the 7RM become what it should have been. Be interesting to see what you can do with it. A 180 Berger Hybrid seated to the 3.6 OAL in my rifle with Retumbo yealds 3020FPS. 26 inch barrel.
It's not an Earth shattering improvement but it certainly allows you to wring some more out of it. I'll explain why in the series.
Getting 3020fps with a 180gr is serious performance. As an experiment, I took a 28" 7 Rem Mag and Ramshot LRT, I ran a 180gr SMK up to the limit, just to see where it was. I hit 3140fps and never found the limit but I ran out of room for powder. That was the "ah ha" moment for me, when I had proof that this cartridge had been under loaded for 60yrs.
I saw your comment on 24hr Campfire, I'm glad we're stirring up a discussion, that's a good thing. It's better to hear first hand experience from each other, than to just swallow what we're fed from the industry marketing.
Thanks for watching.
Great video. Looking forward to the series. I was dead set on a 7 PRC & was excited with the data out on it when it was released. After seeing some actual testing, I'm not so sure I just shouldn't build a 7 RM. Component availability plays a huge part in it.
Thanks for taking us along.
Thanks for coming along!
Can you do a comparison on 30 cals. .308 win, .30-06, .300 Win Mag etc.
That would be an interesting series as well. These days the 7mm's are hotly contested. Which is why chose 7mm for this series. Thanks for watching.
@@LittleCrowGunworks I think I'm pretty late here haha. I'm currently looking at complementing my .308 Win with a .300 PRC. I live down in Namibia and do cull hunts for Gemsbok and other large antelope year-round that regularly requires 400m+ shots. I've found my .308 isn't quite what I want for the 600m+ shots, so I'd love to see a series about .30 cals.
I'm especially interested in the recoil aspect, as I'm a smaller guy and while I'm not shy of the recoil, I prefer not to get punched. Due to price and availability, I'd likely buy a Howa 1500 Varmint and drop it in a chassis to get it around 15lbs, with a braked suppressor.
I'd also be interested in what your thoughts are, whether it really is worth getting a factory .300 Win Mag or .300 WSM, when the twist rate limit you to stay around 200gr or lighter bullets and the COAL is restricted by the action length, vs the .300 PRC that can go even heavier and longer.
I'd love to hear your thoughts on this and maybe even another video series in the future.
Looking forward to the the series but I fill the biggest deference between rifle cartridges is the factory rifle barrel and factory bullets offerings. With a custom build you can make a Rem Mag act just like the the PRC as well as other cartridges. Finding a non custom Remington Magnum in a 1:8 twist is hard an therefore have a hard time shooting the higher BC bullets. So i fill you are missing a big part on this comparison by using the same barrel on all the rifles but I aso understand that your guys build rifles so thats why your doing it.
I see your point. But comparing a 7 PRC in an 8 twist to a 7 Rem Mag in a 9.25 twist has been done to death and it's not relevant to most of us. Pointing out that a cartridge made in 1962 isn't as well thought out as one made 60 years later, isn't a big achievement. It's like, "OH, YOU DID BETTER THAN SOMETHING THAT HAS BEEN CEMENTED IN TIME FOR 60 YEARS? GOOD FOR YOU!"
When in reality, there are tight twist 7 Rem mags available, in custom and factory rifles. Take a 7 Rem Mag, add a tight twist and pull the bullet out of the case to THE SAME point as a 7 PRC and voila!!! You have a 62 year old 7 PRC with a belt.
I really like the 7's, I have two 7mm Rem's but my favorite 7 is a 7mm Rum. With 180 grain bullets shooting at about 3100 fps it is flat shooting and with my model 700 with a muzzle brake, doesn't kick too much at all. The main problem is this is extremely over bore and needs a longer barrel than the standard 26in barrel. With a 26in barrel you must use long heavy for caliber bullets, 150 or 160 grain bullets will make this a very inefficient cartridge, you will not get much more velocity than a 7mm Rem.
I couldn't agree more. If you had a 7 RUM with a 30" barrel, getting 3350fps with a 180 class bullet would be no problem with H50BMG.
The same phenomenon exists in the 300 Magnums. With a 26" barrel, you can't get more than 4200lbs of muzzle energy. I don't care what the cartridge is. It can be a 300 Win Mag, 300 Weatherby, 300 Ultra, or 30-378 WBY. You can't squeeze more than 4200 ftlbs out of it. The bullet weight doesn't matter. Pick you're bullet weight, figure out how fast it needs to go to hit 4200 ftlbs and that's all the velocity you will get before you hit pressure signs.
That number for 7mm's in a 26" barrel is about 4000 ftlbs. If you want more, you need a longer barrel.
Thanks for watching.
Nothing better than 7mm Mashburn Mag!
I can think of lots of stuff. HA
I've been a fan of the WFT for a few years now - from a pair of 1's to load for rifles I no longer have, to the WFT 2 for my 9.3 Mauser and (most recently) my 280 Ackley, I have not found a better trimmer set up for me.
Really looking forward to this series, especially for insight and ideas on loads for my 280 as it's the first long action I've absolutely loved shooting.
As an aside, any chance you guys may put up a transcript for each episode on the site?
Thank you Michael! You are not alone, we sure appreciate your support.
Here is what I’m pretty sure will happen:
28 Nosler is the fastest but only by 50-100fps and will have half the barrel life and a lot more recoil (not worth it IMO)
7mm Mag will beat the 7 PRC and will be pretty close to the 28. (This is the best choice IMO)
7mm PRC will beat the 280 but not the 7 Mag like Hornady advertises.
280 AI is a good choice for someone wanting less recoil, longer barrel life but it’s no match for the Magnums.
LOL, and now for your next trick? Should I just hand out the prize for "most similar guesstimate to my own" now? Or wait until the end?
This isn't your first rodeo.
I just subscribed to your channel. Maine North Woods Hunter here. I am looking forward to this series. I purchased a couple years back what I considered my dream rifle. I got it in 7mm rem mag and then a few months later the 7 PRC came out and I was wondering if I should get that cartridge instead. The Gun is a Christensen Arms Messa LR. I am on disability and I know there are probably a lot better rifles but with my income, this was as much as I could afford. The gun shoots very well. It is a little on the heavy side but being a paraplegic I do a lot of my hunting sitting in my truck, a tree stand, or sitting on the ground. I can't wait to see the guns you make for this series. I am really curious to see the results and to see if I should worry about the difference between the PRC and the Rem Mag. Maine North Woods Hunter (RUclips)
Happy to have you come along. There's nothing wrong with a CA Mesa. When shooting factory ammo to reasonable ranges, there's really no difference between the 7 Rem and the 7 PRC. But handloading, I think the 7 Rem will have the edge.
But we shall see!
As an owner of 2 of these cartridges, 280ai and 28 Nosler, I'm very excited to watch this series. Quick question, are you guys familiar with Hammer bullets? They're a company out of Montana making high quality monolithic hunting bullets. Weatherby currently loads factory 280ai ammo with 139gr Hammer Hunter bullets.
Glad to have you come along for the ride. I know of Hammer bullets, but haven't used them.
I have thank a bottle of water with an elk at 1000 yards and he finally turned browd side and I got into position re ranged him at 960 shored off on a high shoulder with almost no wind and what there was was straight into my face maybe 2 mph dialed and sit there and watched it finish nerve movement in less than 2 minutes. Walked down and started the working part of the hunt
..and the realities of 28 NOS are apparent right now in sales prices of factory guns, that chambering is selling for $2-300 less in the same platform than some of the more common calibers - both magnum and non-magnum. But of course someone who cares enough to order a custom hunting rifle would likely not be deterred by component cost/availability, barrel life just like you said, it's a drop in the bucket when someone who's a serious shooter/hunter looks at the ballistics.
That's right! We're going to show ALL the data. Reloading cost, estimated barrel life, performance, recoil, all of it. Then guys have ALL the information and can make the decision that's best for them. Some guys always buy the extra insurance and don't mind putting a new barrel on more frequently.
Thanks for watching!
I appreciate u not saying there's no Winners......... But there WILL be Liars 😮😮
Zing!
And the king. 7 RUM
IF and only if you have enough barrel on it. Unfortunately, that cartridge needs a 30"+ barrel to show how ridiculous it is. Otherwise it's just a big fireworks show. Too bad that cartridge never caught on. It's a true unicorn. Thanks for watching.
Great things to come. I know it is an oddball but 7mm wsm.
Glad to have you aboard! The 7 WSM and 280AI are very similar to each other in reality because the bullet has to be stuffed way in the case of the 7 WSM to meet magazine length. If you weren't limited by mag length, the 7 WSM would be very similar tot the 7 PRC and 7 Rem Mag in terms of performance.
Great topic, I am anxious to follow this. I do have a dog in the fight, so interested to learn more.
We thought so. It needed to be done and nobody is doing it. We just got tired of the incomplete/bad information out there.
Believe me when I say, we are going to get everything we can out of these cartridges in a 26" barrel. I will find the ceiling and then find where it wants to shoot. Which is even more valuable. Not every cartridge will shoot well at max pressure. In fact, most don't.
I'm sure all of the new subscribers either have a dog in the fight, or are about to. Thanks for following along!
I am very interested in what you are discussing here. I am not a very knowledgeable on reloading and have been thinking of picking it up. Plus i am just learning about the free bore of the rifle. I am curious though about since guys like yourself and i imagine they have smart guys at these factories, that if we now know that excessive free bore causes accuracy issues and that guns now are all capable in the modern actions ( not talking lever) of handling 65,000 psi. Why have the SAMMI specs not changed to match the current knowledge and metallurgy of today? Seems like current rifles would sell better. Like Col. Townsend said, " Only accurate rifles are interesting." If my memory serves me. Thanks for your time, and please forgive me for my ignorance. I am from South Carolina, and most long shots we have are on power lines and across big fields, which can be over 500 to 600 yrds. But most of the time, i am in the woods where my shots are much closer. Besides, most of the time, i would not take a shot over 200 to 300 yrds. For that is my confidence long at this time. I have killed more deer on small plots where my shots have been anywhere from right under the stand to 60 yrds at the most. Anyway thanks for your time and here to learn more to increase my confidence and knowledge that with practice to be able to go out west to be able to harvest an Elk one day. A bucket list item.
Thank you for watching. During the entirety of this series, I will probably give you more information than you want. But freebore will certainly be covered.
I think all guns would shoot better if the chamber specs were updated to modern practices. But that costs a lot of money and may make obsolete, some certain older rifles if the ammo was updated to match the modern chamber design.
Knowing your limitations and working to improve them is what we all should strive for. Thanks for watching.
Just joined I live 40miles from you guys thanks for incorporating your views on what is ethical. You gained a potential customer. I shoot 7 Rem mag, I love shooting always open to other calibers, looking foreward to watching this series and more
Hey we appreciate that Jason!
Ya mag length does suck on the tikkas but still love them lol. Always been able to make them shoot with multiple different loads. Very hard to beat for a cheaper factory option.
Here is some real data. My friend shoot a 7mm. The barrrels is like 27” but he decide to shoot the hornady 180 eldm. We bumped it out to 10 thousands of lands which is around 3.5 oal. Shoot around 3050 at muscle. Shoot about .1 Moa five shot group. I have shot .3 Moa group with 150 ballistic tip and with 150 eldx. The oal is close to 3.6. And pushes around 3150 fps. The seven mag is a very good cartridge period. Easy to find rounds and reloading supply. Plus it will kill game animal u want to shoot.
Agreed. I was just commenting to another fella that I had a 28" barrel on a 7 Rem Mag and hit 3160fps with a 180gr at 3.6 COAL.
It's no joke.
Nice talk, agree with everything you said. You omitted prc pressure issues found with hornady factory ammo by many shooters so kind of looking forward to it falling on its face. Rem mag for me i think, keen to see your development process. Thanks...
Thank you for your support. I will get to the current issues with all the cartridges in the series. The development I will be using in the series is a little different than most. Should be interesting.
Initial Sims
280AI, 162gr ELDX @ 3.500", 64.50gr of RL26, 98.2% LR, Large Rifle Primer, 26" Barrel MV is 3117 fps
7mm Rem, 162gr ELDX @ 3.290", 67.50gr of RL26, 94.8% LR, Large Rifle Primer, 26" Barrel MV is 3131 fps
7 PRC 162gr ELDX @ 3.340", 72.50gr of N565, 100.2% LR, Large Rifle Primer, 26" Barrel MV is 3188 fps
Thank you for this but it isn't necessary. I have everything I need to produce this data, which we will go into in the series.
Looking forward to it, I have subscribed. A man from Aus.
Awesome man, thanks for the support, cheers.
Lol I easily achieved 3,035fps out of a 24inch 175eldx 7prc! Hit slight pressure approaching 3100fps no reason for me to beat my brass up! The fact the 7prc can almost achieve 28 nosler velocity within 150fps or so with 10gr less of powder was a no brainer! Can't wait for these videos!
Happy to have you along. All the facts will be on display for people to make an informed decision that's best for them. Diminishing returns is always a thing. Even from the 280 AI to the 7 PRC. It still applies...10 grains more powder, not much more speed.