I just want echo what Tim said there about going to the beginning of the 7mm showdown series and watching all of the videos. I'm a 7 Rem Mag guy myself. But I have thoroughly enjoyed every one of them. Tim's common sense approach is tops, and there is a tremendous amount of usable info in them if you're a handloader.
After buying my 7prc I purchased federal terminal ascent 170gr, didn’t shoot well. Purchased weatherby Berger and it shot within an moa but don’t want to hunt with that bullet. Purchased Hornady cx 160gr, 2-1/2” group, sucked and velocity was terrible ( I have a 20” barrel), I did scrub the barrel before shooting copper. Went back to terminal ascent 155gr this time and shot 3/4 minute, was happy. But after watching this video I ordered 4 boxes of the Barnes and holy shit! Velocity is at 2959 and I’m touching holes! Thank you so much for your videos! I’m heading out for elk in a week and my confidence is where it should be!
Smoking!! I'm all but done with factory loading and always receive better results with hand loading. Absolutely awesome, and thank you for sharing all your intuitions and insights! Keep up the great work LCG!!
Thank you for this video, I have tried offerings from Hornady and Choice and have been less than impressed with velocity and accuracy in my custom built 7 PRC (2,750 fps). I was starting to work up a handload when I saw this video. I ordered a box and shot several half MOA groups at 2,977 fps. I have a four shot group with a supressor that is one ragged hole. I have since ordered 8 more boxes and won't even mess with reloading for this cartridge. I truly appreciate your contributions to the sport!
@@jackshoffstall7677 Yea I just tried some of the stuff today in my 20” and was pushing 2950, have 46rds down the tube now so another couple boxes and it should really settle in and maybe even see just a tad more velocity. Accuracy was amazing out of the stuff also shot a box of Hornady Precision hunter and it was garbage for velocity and was giving me a sticky bolt, shot some Hornady outfitters and was not much better.
@@killsnight95 Not sure if they have restocked, but Smokey Mountain Gun Works had this at a really good pricing and shipping was reasonable. I have over 200 rounds now so I should be set until we can get RL26 or an equivalent on the market!
Enjoying your videos immensely. You're 440 yd group shows the reality of long-distance hunting. You are an expert shooter shooting with the best equipment. People taking shots over 300 yd should really consider their ability and their equipment. Please people if you do not test test test test test test test test test test test test test. Limit your range. Thank you so much for the excellent content.
Another great part to the series. As a 7mm loader/shooter/hunter, I’m hoping this series will continue for a good while. I’m down to less than a jug of RL26 so I’m not load developing with that powder. Same with RL23 so I’m starting to try VV560-565. Anyways, thanks again Tim for this interesting and educational video.
Thank you John. Even when the series "ends" I will still be adding things to it as new things come out or as we have new information/test results to share. It started as a 7mm comparison but will end up being a 7mm category that we add to over time.
Apart from the main content of the video, I'm impressed by how little that 7 prc kicks. Can you tell me what brake you're using and the rough weight of the rifle? Just curious, thanks!
@@dvalasek27 We use MBM CF Beast 4 Port brakes from Muzzle Brakes & More. That combined with a flat toe on the stock and our Thorofare Tripod is a complete system for recoil mitigation. We also like some weight to our rifles to help with the recoil as well. That rifle without the tripod is 9 lbs 13 oz. We really aren't interested in building hunting rifles under 9 lbs unless it's a short action standard cartridge like a 7mm-08 or Creedmoor or something like that. Anything under 9 lbs, they're nice to carry, but that's where it ends. Everything else gets compromised.
@LittleCrowGunworks nice! That’s great to know. I’m getting a SRS 4 port brake that I believe was a close second to the beast brake MBM’s testing video, I amam getting my stock configured with the ability to shoot off a tripod as well, and I think I’ll be coming in right around the 10 lb. mark or just slightly over so I’m stoked to see what will be possible for me with recoil mitigation on my 7prc build. Thanks for sharing all the great info! 🍻
Thank you! I have a 7STW sako, have great targets from 400 yards and less.(150gr. TSX&TTSX) Soon as I went to the LRX168 passed 400 yards no luck..(hot..load) Thanks again!!
Great video! I loved the nerdy stuff. I already bought two boxes of the 160 LRX bullets for handloads. I'm getting 2705 fps with Peterson brass, 64.0g H1000, in a 20" barrel. No load development yet. Just a starting charge to keep recoil down for my daughter. My daughter is hunting elk with this load. No luck on Saturday, hopefully we can test this bullet out soon! I was very curious what the factory stuff was made of. I was afraid it was going to be RL-26.
Thanks for checking out the video Blaine. I see you're either new to the channel or haven't commented until now. I'm happy to hear that you're getting your daughter out elk hunting. I suggest watching our 7mm Showdown series. In part 3, I discuss powder selection for different applications. I'm not sure what powders you have access to, but I can tell you that H1000 is WAY too slow for your application and its too slow for the 7 PRC in general until you have a 30" barrel with a 160gr bullet. Unfortunately when you take a magnum cartridge and put a short barrel on it, you reduce your number of viable powders to near zero. If you want to 1. actually burn all the powder, 2. have a decent case fill and 3. get decent velocity in a 20" barrel with a 7 PRC, the ONLY viable powder choice is N555. Literally EVERYTHING else is a compromise and will not check one or more of the 3 boxes above, because you have a big case and a short barrel. In order to get 100% burn with H1000 in a 20" barrel, you would have to run it at 79,000psi and the brass would be single use. But you're never going to get 72+ grains in that case. With N555, you WILL get 100% burn at safe pressures, AND decent fill ratio and the safe max pressure (65,000psi) gets you around 2860fps with a 160gr bullet. Welcome to the channel, hope to see you around.
So took your advice with my new 7PRC. Loaded up the rest of my first box of ADG brass 27rnds with my best initial load of 68gn RL26 175 Berger Elite Hunter at .020 off the lands. Clean barrel or shot a .320. I then chronograph 3 shots 2973, 2972, 2963, SD 5.4 ES 10. I also tried .015 and .025 off the lands. It didn't like 015 but .025 shot a .530. I then went to the 1k range and had fun hunting steel at 600, 800, 900, and 1000yds. 5 shots at 1000 was like half moa or a just a tad over half. Still have another 50 round to get to first 100 rounds down the barrel.
That is fantastic! Great job. That's what we want. Throw something together, get some data, and go break it in and LEARN something at long range. After that hundred rounds, scrub her down good. Bring 20 rounds of your 68 grains @ .020 jump and re-foul the barrel. Shoot groups of three until they stabilize and shoot consistent. Then when the barrel is stable you can ladder up and down with the powder @ .020 jump to see if you find anything better. If you don't and your original load shoots in the .3XXX's still and maybe speeds up a little, YOU'RE DONE, go practice. Every 2 to 300 rounds fired, check seating depth up and down 15 thou in .003 increments to see if your sweet spot moved. Shoot another 2 to 300 rounds, repeat until the barrel is toast. Get a new one and repeat the entire process. I'm happy for you man, great stuff!
@tonylatham5915 despite what you see on a burn rate chart, H1000 is nothing like RL26. THE MOST similar powder to RL26 is VV N560. As far as density, energy content, space it occupies in the case, etc. My second choice would be N565. That will actually match or exceed RL26 velocities. But takes up more space in the case and is optimal in 26" and longer barrels.
This is my favourite round for my 7PRC also. I have used LRX bullets for years in other cartridges. It is nice not having to hand load if you don’t want to.
Great video. Is that a sub 9 pound rifle? If so, how are you getting a minimal recoil signature? Is it because the stock is mounted to the tripod in the front?
Thank you! No that rifle was 9lb 13oz without the tripod. It's a complete shooting system that we use to minimize recoil and rifle movement. Everything works together.
After watching this video and currently in the middle of the 7mm series, if you were to compare the bullet only, what are your thoughts on the Barnes lrx compared to the Hornady CX? Thanks for the great information, the videos have been great.
@darrenhavemann1040 Hey Darren, welcome to the comment section. The only experience I have with this 160 LRX is what I showed you. Where the CX I shot a lot more. I think BOTH are optimal in a 7.5" Twist. Especially the Barnes. I think both will need the barrel cleaned every 60 to 80 rounds, or they will become erratic. I think the BC is the same on both and I think they will both function and kill equally. The design is identical. But the plastic tip is 70 thou longer on the Barnes. Meaning the Barnes is a touch long for an 8 twist under low elevation with cold temps. If I shot that ammo today in Minnesota at the current temp of 7 degrees, the Sg would be only 1.26 Which is nowhere near fully stable. Anything below 1.5 and you start losing ballistic coefficient. Much below 1.2 and oblong holes in the paper and tumbling are a possibility. The CX under those same conditions would only be at 1.30 Sg. So... BOTH bullets would benefit from a 7.5" twist.
@jonathanchandler4595 this rifle was a 1:8 twist. In my opinion, that is the bare minimum for the 160 LRX and 160 CX. People often don't realize how long these big monolithic bullets are. The longest bullets in 7mm are in this order: 190 ATIP, 197 Smk, 160 LRX, 195 EOL, 160 CX. EVERYTHING else is shorter. I think for the bullets I listed above, THE BEST twist rate is 1:7.5
That's pretty crazy how your die was set up perfectly right away!!! I'd say you were on the right track for sure 😂 pretty lame Alliant isnt gonna sell to us anymore, but at least we still have Vihtavuori
Right!?! I about fell off my stool. Apparently I'm in the right place for BOTH bullets! Yes, it is lame, but their availability has been so piss poor since before they even created RL16, RL23 & RL26 that I started phasing them out A LONG TIME ago. VihtaVuori, Hodgdon and IMR is what I use for all my "Serious" stuff. I play with other stuff, but just for close range Prairie Dog loads and fiddling around.
They WERE uniform because they had a bullet in them and the nickel plated stuff typically has more neck tension than a brass only case. So I did NOT re-size the neck, but I did chamfer and debur the necks, because NONE of the factory ammo manufacturers do that.
Barnes has always been my go to for hunting ammo. Those bullets are the truth I feel like they are one of the only manufacturers who aren’t over embellishing their velocities as I’ve always found myself to be near or right at box even with slightly shorter barrels then the test variant. Like you I’ve not been impressed with the Hornady ammo. I generally don’t like ELDX just as a hunting bullet but I’ve more or less been forced into it since it’s been the only option until lately. I haven’t tried the CX in my 7 PRC but if shoots anything like my 6.5 CM and 270 then it’ll be abysmal. Been waiting patiently for Barnes factory loads and I’m glad it’s finally here and performing well to boot. Can’t wait to get me a few boxes.
@@LittleCrowGunworks have you noticed better groups with more jump? I found .075” was giving me good results at 300yrds running 4831sc with the CX bullets.
when it first came out, there was a little information on it. Most everything I read was that it liked to jump. It seemed to be true for me. I’m at sea level. I’ll keep you posted if you’d like.
Thanks for letting me know about Alliant. Just made my current load development way easier! Also, screw them and the horse they road in on! I've got their stuff in Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun loads.... Guess it's onto the back up loads.
Hey Joe, yeah it sucks for sure. I have been unhappy with their poor supply for many years and started phasing them out probably 8 or 9 years ago. It's too bad.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Yeah, pretty much any organization absorbed by Vista Outdoors or Kinetic Group or whatever they're calling themselves this week is not interested in meeting demand for anything, almost like they're intentionally trying to sink the companies or at least prevent their growth. There's no way that the contracts are that good for all of the companies they've absorbed, to shut out the consumer market.
"2 or 3 inch group at 505 yards" says a great deal, right off the start, about a projectile I've been eyeballing since I saw it on Barnes' website. I'm tinkering on a 145gr LRX load for my 280 - after this video series, and mulling over my limited results - due to downrange velocity concerns, but when I saw that Barnes was slotting a 160 to compete with Hornady, I was wondering to try it out. Eager to see the results here - And to hear anything back on the N160 loads you may have been working on.
Do you have any concerns with a 1:8” twist barrel stabilizing the new Barnes 160gr LRX? Their website states it’s 1.700” long and when plugging the data into a couple of twist rate stability calculators they both seem to show that it’s marginally stable (roughly 1.2 stability factor) and requires a 1:7” or 1:7.25” twist rate. This is using 1,000 elevation/density altitude which is usually about the lowest I hunt/shoot at.
@chrishudson7817 excellent question. While I completely agree with you, we tested at 1000ft AND used and 8 twist barrel. If I was building a rifle for this specific bullet, I would use a 7.5 or 7 twist.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Glad to hear it worked out in real world application which is the important part 👍. Any thoughts on that being source of the random flyers in the grouping? I’m wondering if from a stability standpoint the long plastic tip (low density/weight) in essence shortens the bullet length down to the tip of the hallow point. Do you know the length from base to the tip of the copper hollow point opening and/or the length of the protruding polymer tip? I actually sent Barnes an email on this but haven’t heard back.
@chrishudson7817 what great questions. I would guess the low stability is most likely to blame for the flyers. Followed closely by them running the balls off it, followed by inherent neck tension inconsistency of nickel plated brass. The plastic tip is 100% included in the stability equation. Hollow point bullets are near weightless in the nose as well. I have actually tested this in real life. I had some 105gr AMAX bullets that I wanted to get rid of. All I had at the time was a 9.25 twist 243 Winchester. I loaded up the Hornady manual max of RL19 at .015 jump. I loaded 5 rounds unmodified, which were "unstable". Then I loaded another 5 rounds that I cut the entire plastic tip off with a razor blade, which would make it stable by calculation. The unmodified shot a 1.5" group at 100yds. The 5 with the tip cut off shot a half inch group. Same load, same day, same time.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Great info on the tips impact on at stability! And agreed that the running near max and neck tension are likely a factor there too. It looked like the pulled bullet you had laying next to the powder was shaved up pretty good from seating so seems like they’re running a good amount of neck tension. Either way those still shoot great for a factory load 👍. I’m thinking about buying some of the 160LRX’s to try out in my 7 Sherman MEGA with a 23” 8 twist barrel, which runs about on par with the 7 PRC just a few grains more of case capacity in a XM action. I’ve been running the 150gr Badlands Bulldozers with great success but unfortunately can’t get those anymore and nearly out of them. A friend of mine has really liked the accuracy and consistency with hand loading the 160gr Hornady CX’s for his 7 PRC so will likely give those a try first. Going to load with RL26 but also had good success with H4831sc and VV555 with the 150gr Bulldozers so may give those a try as well.
@@chrishudson7817 I would stick with the CX for your application. I do think these are too long for an 8 twist in low altitude applications. I also think, by design, the LRX will have AT LEAST .070 longer COAL than the CX for the SAME jump. Which may cause a length issue for you in an XM.
@@LittleCrowGunworks yes sir! I’ve enjoyed the 7mm series. I’ve shot a 7mag most of my life. I’m only 24 but it’s been a nice cartridge. It’s not my long range build but 100-400 yards it’s taken countless white tails.
@@warddanger that is our "Thorofare" Ultralight Carbon Fiber Tripod that we brought to market specifically for hunters. Check them out at www.littlecrowgunworks.com Click the "Store" tab and type Thorofare in the search box. Or check out the video about it on our RUclips channel.
I just bought a 28 Nosler and have tried Nosler, Hornady, and Barnes bullets in factory loads. The Barnes 168LRX shot a .73" three shot group at 100 yards and the others where 2" and over.
How did their published bc compare to your observed drops. I know you only stretched out to 505. Just curious because their website shows a higher bc for the 160 than for the 168.
Hey John, I didn't shoot enough or far enough to assess that. I think it's close to advertised. But this ammo POI was shifting, which makes it almost impossible to reverse engineer BC. It's certainly higher than the 168 LRX.
Hey Jerry, that rifle doesn't have a tight enough twist to run these bullets. It looks like its a 9.5" Twist barrel. These bullets need an 8" twist at a minimum. A 1:7.5 twist would be better.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Thanks for the info! It shoots Federal premium 168 grain Berger hybrids very well... I would just like to find a copper bullet that it shoots well!
@jerrywhittaker1052 thats great to hear. The 168 Berger is the longest bullet you can stabilize. These mono's are MUCH longer than all of the Bergers except the 195gr. 160CX = 1.626" 195 Berger = 1.648" 160 LRX = 1.695" 168 Berger = 1.433" THEY ARE LOOOOOOONG! And need WAY tighter twist than the 168 Berger. The 145gr Barnes LRX @ 3240 is the Max performance you're going to get and fully stabilize in that rifle. H4831SC, N560 and IMR7828SSC.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Thank you! I have IMR7828SSC I will try out the LRX 145gr. Can't believe the amount of work you guys have put into the series! I love it though!
Tim, another impressive video. Gives me a new appreciation for Barnes. I will be shopping for a couple boxes to try. I have found similar experiences with Hornady CX factory loadings but want to find a copper load that will shoot. Perhaps I have.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Had 2 hunts with my 6.5 PRC last month and only the 147 ELD-M shot well enough to consider for Antelope and when I later got a shot on an Axis deer; the bullet went in the shoulder and exploded the heart but no single piece was found when processing the meat. Last time for that and maybe the last time for the PRC in that rifle. Love the cartridge, just not the rifle.
I switched from Nosler to Barnes several years ago after taking a 6x6 bull at 630 yards with my 338-378 Weatherby. Now 98% of my reloaded ammo features Barnes bullets regardless of caliber.
What does one of your custom rifle cost. I’m disabled so I’m looking for a super lite rifle to be able to walk and carry. So I’m going for something that shoots flat I live here in New Mexico. My wife just bought me a 6.5-300 weatherby mag. Vanguard meat eater edition. Do you guys make carbon fiber barrels for that rifle.
@SpudOutdoors you WILL NOT get the 170gr to shoot. I couldn't get it stable in a 7 twist 7 Rem Mag. Egg shaped holes and 40% lower BC than advertised at 100yds. The 151gr MIGHT shoot. But even if it does, they don't expand, they tumble. After my experience with the 170 Cayuga, I've completely sworn off the "boutique" monolithic bullets. The theoretical BC advantage, isn't worth the added cost and headache. Due to your magazine constraints, I would shoot a 145LRX or a 150CX and be happy with it. I personally think an 8 twist is marginal for the 160CX and 160 LRX, and very inadequate for the Cayugas. Also, the Cayugas need WAY LESS freebore than is typically used with anyone's 7mm reamers. I think you need to have your own reamer made SPECIFICALLY for the Cayuga, to even ATTEMPT to stabilize them.
Odd result in new Applied Ballistics app. Set this new factory load in the app and got an error message saying my 1:8 twist barrel would be insufficient. App says this projectile would be unstable out of a 1:8 and recommended 1:7.5?
@boggstucson5415 correct. It's long. A stability under 1.5 Sg, doesn't mean the bullet will tumble. It means that you're not getting 100% of the BC due to yaw. Monolithic bullets really perform best at 1.6 and higher Sg. I agree that 7.5" Twist is optimal for the 160 CX and 160 LRX.
Ive shot factor barnes Lrx ammo in 270 win, 7mm rem and 300 win . Always has shot sub moa. Handloaded it in the 270 and got it shooting around 1/2 moa. Got factory federal TA for those guns too. It shoots around 1 moa in the 270 and easily under 3/4 moa in the other two. If u can get it the Terminal Accent is worth trying.
@cc-hc1dr well it says barnes on the headstamp, but I dont know who makes it. Austin from Reloading Weatherby probably knows. He's pretty in tune with what Barnes and Weatherby are up to. If I had to guess what was causing the flyers, it's the nickel plated brass.
Not what I was expecting but very cool. I have 129gr LRX loaded up with h4350 in my 270 for mule deer this year. Popped a 5 inch plate at 640yards first try with it at the very end of all my testing. Seems to be a good bullet once you figure it out. I will not shoot it past 500 yards though with the velocity I’m getting which is plenty far anyways. Usually say if you can’t get within 300 you didn’t try hard enough anyways in most situations.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Yes I believe it was. I did some group testing before I got my Garmin but seating depth was off so groups sucked but it definitely favored h4350 over h4831sc. I then got the Garmin xero and changed the seating depth to match the top relief groove like I’ve seen a few people recommend and that’s what they do in their factory loads. At this point I had seen your video and thought that’s so much better than a bunch of groups so gave it a try. Found that load after the ladder and small changes at sweet spots. I did the same thing for the 110 Barnes ttsx I plan to use for whitetail in the 270 and got a .5-.6 moa load out of them at 3350fps. I like the method. Only way I’ve gotten a load quicker is dumb luck once haha.
I have both the new 152lrx in 280 AI and 160lrx in 7prc. Both guns love the new factory loads. One mule deer buck is now very unhappy with the 160lrx. He now resides in my freezer and wall. One shot 325yds. 😀
Use it up and say goodbye. N560 is great, with similar fill ratio and slightly less velocity than RL26 for the same pressure. While N565 will easily replicate RL26 velocity at the same pressure but takes up more space than RL26. Thanks for checking in.
@cabochris100 yes. Common expansion minimums for tipped mono bullets are widely considered to be 2000fps. This factory ammo drops below 2000fps near sea level at 800yds. At 10,000ft elevation, that distance is 1200yds. We dont encourage shooting at animals that far away, but this ammo/bullet combo is very capable.
@bradbennett552 thanks Brad, welcome to the channel. I have not, I prefer more mainstream, expansion/mushrooms type monolithic bullets. I think the way Hammer bullets work, can also be effective. But I think traditional mushrooms type mono's transfer energy better, causing more internal trauma.
Did you buy the LRX direct from Barnes? That's the only place I found them. Oh, nevermind. I commented too soon. Weatherby loads the Hammer bullet for 7PRC I think
@@LittleCrowGunworks I wouldn't either. I've never owned a Weatherby, in part, because they want half your pension to buy their ammo or even their brass for loading
Hey Tim, I just ordered 2 boxes of 170 grain federal terminal ascent off the federal website, might take a look and see if you can get lucky, ammo arrived yesterday. I’d like to see a video on your results with that bullet!
I hear ya Brandon, but it has to be available. I can't chase Federal around looking for their ammo and recommend it to my customers, knowing it's almost non-existent. That's why I excluded Alliant powders from our 7mm Series. Because Alliant is owned by the same conglomerate and they all have piss poor supply chains.
It’s 177 gr and was garbage on 2 Seekins PH2’s, Browning xbolt and one Ruger American. The Hammer HHT 170 gr is a good bullet but soon will switch over to these LRX 160 gr bullets.
I can promise you it’s RL 26, I have a couple of pounds RL 25 and met the velocity exactly at the lowest charge. We also bought a couple of the first boxes of the Hornady 175 Eld-x and hit 3080 fps out of a 26” barrel and same hole group at 100 yards. Subsequent ammo lots went to crap, couldn’t get accuracy and couldn’t get the same velocity 2875. Same exact experience as you. Have tried other powders but couldn’t duplicate the RL 26/25. And yes if you don’t want to reload there is no need for the 7 PRC
Great series you’ve put together here. I’m just getting into the reloading scene and appreciate the no BS and data driven approach you’ve shared here. I live in CO with the western game out my back door but also travel to the Michigan woods each fall for whitetail. I’m leaning towards settling on the new 160 lrx for my 7prc. Would you still use this on midwestern whitetail or develop a separate load for that different style of hunting? (Dense woods, short shots, thinner skinned)
I've always had good luck with Barnes factory ammo from both velocity and accuracy perspectives. Also, I need a box of those for my 7rm. Looks like the bullet itself is not available yet? Edit: they are available directly from Barnes. Couldn't find them anywhere else though.
Absolutely excellent video. I've been looking for reviews on this bullet since a Barnes technician mentioned it dropped while calling in for another question. You tested as well as I could have hoped for. I see those kickers in my 110gr Tac tx handloads in my 308. I think it might be inconsistency with those extra long tips. I've had 4 under 0.5 in a cheap factory rifle only to have the 5th kick out to like 1.2 and other 5 shot groups with much the same, but with a different shot in the string being the asshole. The only thing extra I'd like to see is a low velocity gel test. Whether that's at distance, downloaded plus moderate distance, or run in 7mm-08 running a reduced H4895 charge. I'd like to see that bullet hit below 2300 fps to confirm its terminal performance.
I’ve got sub moa groups with CX rounds at 300 yards using 66gn 4831sc at .080” jump. Getting the occasional flyer. The LRX rounds shot better than the CX at both 65.5gn and 66gn, minimal difference between 3.320” & 3.280” OAL. All above 3000fps with 22” steel sporter barrel. Also loaded a few CX with the new Ramshot Grand that’s supposed to be for PRC. It shot TIGHT. SD of 3.0 and deviation of 6.7 averaged 3018.0fps Going to send LRX loaded with 70gn Grand at 3.300” OAL tomorrow
R26 is very temperature sensitive, that was the problem with the original M118lr in early days Afghanistan, it was loaded with R15 and got switched out to imr4064. If R26 works, H1000 should work pretty good. And it's not temp sensitive
@hedgeapplehomestead2816 I agree that RL26 is Temp Sensitive. Although H1000 and RL26 are near each other on the burn rate chart they have zero similarities. I know people use H1000 in the 7 PRC but it's a poor choice. It's too bulky for the 7 PRC case. N565 is not temp sensitive and is the optimal powder for the 7 PRC for 24" and longer barrels, and it will replicate RL26 velocities at the same pressures, but requires another 1.5 to 2 grains to do it.
Not sure if this is helpful, but I’ll throw it out there. I’m at sea level basically, 75*, 41% humidity. LRX 160gn, 4831sc 66gn, 3.300” OAL. Shot 1.5” groups at 300 yards. Consistent groups, unlike the CX. Flew a little flatter by about .5 moa. That was .020” deeper than the setup I had for the CX bullets. I hope it’s in the ball park for other people too
I just tested norma BondStrike today with my 24” barrel 7prc. 5 different 3 shot groups averaged .62” at 100 with average velocity of 2965 per my garmin. Also want to test terminal ascent and grab a gun finally had it in stock so ordered but haven’t shot yet. BondStrike seems to hold decent weight and have decent penetration also but even more important is it shot great today.
Great stuff, as always For the 2 in/1 out; was it always 1+2 together and 3 out, or 1+3 together 2 out, or random? It's my understanding that Barnes and Alliant are owned by the same parent company. So hopefully they will always have some RL26 available. I've shot this out of a Waypoint, and it's the most accurate round that rifle has ever seen. H'mmm, redo the 7mm challenge with this bullet instead of the CX?
I also forgot to mention that if you listen to the backcountry hunting podcast, a few weeks ago they had a representative from Barnes on discussing this bullet. This episode has not made it to their RUclips channel yet He discusses the overall design of the bullet and what it was designed to do, targeted at. This was specifically made for a 7 prc. They make a 168 lrx, but this new one has a much better ballistic coefficient
@@LittleCrowGunworks I agree with Austin, my night drives are lacking in interesting new things to listen to and ReloadingWeatherby only produces 9 minute videos, typically…. 😂
What is the reason for using carbon fibre barrels is it for a lighter hunting rifle,in the world of f-class and benchrest shooting no carbon fiber barrels or chassis only ss steel and laminate stocks or carbon stocks.Verry good video liked it good information 👌👌
Thank you for joining us! Yes, you are correct, it is for weight reduction. I am very familiar with competition shooting. Some guys like how the carbon fiber barrels look as well.
Well that's not what they are telling companies that order their powders to re-sell it to you guys. Do me a favor, go on Graf & Sons and see how much Alliant Powder is IN STOCK.... Let me know when it gets better and when it finally comes back in stock, what the price is. The problem is they have powders made for them in Sweden, Switzerland and the US and none of their supply chains are great. The little bit that becomes available for you guys will be extremely expensive. They shot down one of their powder producing plants to re-purpose the equipment for a new plant. That will take YEARS to recover from. One of our local reloading supply stores that sells our trimmers actually received a couple 8lb jugs of RL16 for the first time in over a year. I assume it was an old backorder. This store is always very competitive on powder prices. They were selling these 8lb jugs of RL16 for $587.95... That's $73.50/lb!!! NO THANKS! I can buy VihtaVuori any day of the week for $44/lb. It's not going to improve any time soon. They can tell you whatever they want. It doesn't match what they're DOING.
Looks like Barnes stole your seating depth info… those bastards! 😂 Those are some tiny groups at 500 yards. I’ve been trying to find some factory 7prc ammo that works for me and the outfitter was not it. Neither was the eldx/m. I literally paused your video and went to Barnes and tried to order the 160 lr and of course- they don’t ship to CA!!!! Can’t find any elsewhere. Yet….
It does not make me happy with Alliant. Seems like they don't want to support reloading. Imagine if the other brands did the same thing. What's next? No factory ammo after that. What happens if the military decides they want it all?
I know they do. We don't like using Target bullets on Elk. That doesn't mean you can't, but we don't promote it. You can watch our 7mm Showdown Series if you care to find out why.
Well shoot. Nothing like spending $500 based on your prior load dev videos stating to go test all these different powders all to find out factory ammo is best. Haha.
Nah, you can still do better if your handloading practices are sound. This ammo does have a pretty drastic point of impact shift. But I cant say if it's the ammo or the carbon fiber barrel.
Stand 10 of these bullets up and look at the tips from above, every one shows copper on one side or the other, damn tips are seated crocked... my 25-06 shoots the same , 2 together 1 out
I think the 2 together and one out is more a function of how hot the load is. In my experience, that is the sort of thing that happens when you approach or exceed 65k psi. If they let the load down 50-100fps, that would likely go away.
I was really hoping Barnes was using a powder we can actually buy. I am so tired of everything being a shortage or a panic or inflation or politics bla bla bla. Shooting and reloading is challenging enough when components are available.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I just want echo what Tim said there about going to the beginning of the 7mm showdown series and watching all of the videos.
I'm a 7 Rem Mag guy myself. But I have thoroughly enjoyed every one of them. Tim's common sense approach is tops, and there is a tremendous amount of usable info in them if you're a handloader.
Thank you Harry, I really appreciate the support!
Talk about excited,everytime I watch one of your videos,I end up in the loading room!!!!!!
That's fantastic. If you're inspired by watching our videos, we're doing something right.
Very interesting…one has to love when a factory ammo does what it says it will do!
Yeah unfortunately it's not very common.
Barnes and Federal make great ammo. Thanks for the video!
I would agree with that statement based on my experience. Thanks for watching.
After buying my 7prc I purchased federal terminal ascent 170gr, didn’t shoot well. Purchased weatherby Berger and it shot within an moa but don’t want to hunt with that bullet. Purchased Hornady cx 160gr, 2-1/2” group, sucked and velocity was terrible ( I have a 20” barrel), I did scrub the barrel before shooting copper. Went back to terminal ascent 155gr this time and shot 3/4 minute, was happy. But after watching this video I ordered 4 boxes of the Barnes and holy shit! Velocity is at 2959 and I’m touching holes! Thank you so much for your videos! I’m heading out for elk in a week and my confidence is where it should be!
@DirtFever glad to hear it man, go knock down a big one.
I have shot multiple lots of this Barnes ammo now and they all shoot like that.
Exactly what I was hoping to hear. Anxious to see how it does through a 22” barrel. Great channel, great info. Thanks a bunch.
Thanks for joining us! This should be over 3000fps for you if your barrel has a hundred rounds on it. Good luck with it. Thanks for watching.
This is my favorite rifle out of the series!
Thanks Jack, I really like this combination as well.
Coolest video yet! And you guys have some great videos
Thanks James!
Smoking!! I'm all but done with factory loading and always receive better results with hand loading. Absolutely awesome, and thank you for sharing all your intuitions and insights! Keep up the great work LCG!!
Thank you for the positive feedback. Our handload did shoot better overall, without seating depth work, but this stuff still shoots really well.
Always look forward to your videos! 🎯🇺🇸
I appreciate that!
Love the video! Getting some of those in the mail today!
Excellent video!!! Keep up the outstanding work. Love my 7 PRC!!!!
Thanks! Will do!
Can't wait to hear your thoughts on the Federal 7mm Backcountry
Thank you for this video, I have tried offerings from Hornady and Choice and have been less than impressed with velocity and accuracy in my custom built 7 PRC (2,750 fps). I was starting to work up a handload when I saw this video. I ordered a box and shot several half MOA groups at 2,977 fps. I have a four shot group with a supressor that is one ragged hole. I have since ordered 8 more boxes and won't even mess with reloading for this cartridge. I truly appreciate your contributions to the sport!
Barrel length?
@@killsnight95 22 inch proof sendaro! I have since ordered 10 more boxes of Barnes!
@@jackshoffstall7677 Yea I just tried some of the stuff today in my 20” and was pushing 2950, have 46rds down the tube now so another couple boxes and it should really settle in and maybe even see just a tad more velocity.
Accuracy was amazing out of the stuff also shot a box of Hornady Precision hunter and it was garbage for velocity and was giving me a sticky bolt, shot some Hornady outfitters and was not much better.
@@killsnight95 Not sure if they have restocked, but Smokey Mountain Gun Works had this at a really good pricing and shipping was reasonable. I have over 200 rounds now so I should be set until we can get RL26 or an equivalent on the market!
Enjoying your videos immensely. You're 440 yd group shows the reality of long-distance hunting. You are an expert shooter shooting with the best equipment. People taking shots over 300 yd should really consider their ability and their equipment. Please people if you do not test test test test test test test test test test test test test. Limit your range. Thank you so much for the excellent content.
lol 😂
Another great part to the series. As a 7mm loader/shooter/hunter, I’m hoping this series will continue for a good while. I’m down to less than a jug of RL26 so I’m not load developing with that powder. Same with RL23 so I’m starting to try VV560-565. Anyways, thanks again Tim for this interesting and educational video.
Thank you John. Even when the series "ends" I will still be adding things to it as new things come out or as we have new information/test results to share. It started as a 7mm comparison but will end up being a 7mm category that we add to over time.
@@LittleCrowGunworks sounds great Tim!
Once again, good information and a good video!
Hey guy, stop watching RUclips videos! 😂
Oh wait... ours are ok to watch.
Thanks Joe!
Always excited to watch your work!!
Apart from the main content of the video, I'm impressed by how little that 7 prc kicks. Can you tell me what brake you're using and the rough weight of the rifle? Just curious, thanks!
@@dvalasek27 We use MBM CF Beast 4 Port brakes from Muzzle Brakes & More.
That combined with a flat toe on the stock and our Thorofare Tripod is a complete system for recoil mitigation. We also like some weight to our rifles to help with the recoil as well. That rifle without the tripod is 9 lbs 13 oz.
We really aren't interested in building hunting rifles under 9 lbs unless it's a short action standard cartridge like a 7mm-08 or Creedmoor or something like that.
Anything under 9 lbs, they're nice to carry, but that's where it ends. Everything else gets compromised.
@LittleCrowGunworks nice! That’s great to know. I’m getting a SRS 4 port brake that I believe was a close second to the beast brake MBM’s testing video, I amam getting my stock configured with the ability to shoot off a tripod as well, and I think I’ll be coming in right around the 10 lb. mark or just slightly over so I’m stoked to see what will be possible for me with recoil mitigation on my 7prc build.
Thanks for sharing all the great info! 🍻
Thank you!
I have a 7STW sako, have great targets from 400 yards and less.(150gr. TSX&TTSX)
Soon as I went to the LRX168 passed 400 yards no luck..(hot..load)
Thanks again!!
@@bjcoveney5306 you probably don't have the twist rate to stabilize the 168gr.
Great video! I loved the nerdy stuff. I already bought two boxes of the 160 LRX bullets for handloads. I'm getting 2705 fps with Peterson brass, 64.0g H1000, in a 20" barrel. No load development yet. Just a starting charge to keep recoil down for my daughter. My daughter is hunting elk with this load. No luck on Saturday, hopefully we can test this bullet out soon!
I was very curious what the factory stuff was made of. I was afraid it was going to be RL-26.
Thanks for checking out the video Blaine. I see you're either new to the channel or haven't commented until now. I'm happy to hear that you're getting your daughter out elk hunting.
I suggest watching our 7mm Showdown series. In part 3, I discuss powder selection for different applications. I'm not sure what powders you have access to, but I can tell you that H1000 is WAY too slow for your application and its too slow for the 7 PRC in general until you have a 30" barrel with a 160gr bullet. Unfortunately when you take a magnum cartridge and put a short barrel on it, you reduce your number of viable powders to near zero.
If you want to 1. actually burn all the powder, 2. have a decent case fill and 3. get decent velocity in a 20" barrel with a 7 PRC, the ONLY viable powder choice is N555. Literally EVERYTHING else is a compromise and will not check one or more of the 3 boxes above, because you have a big case and a short barrel.
In order to get 100% burn with H1000 in a 20" barrel, you would have to run it at 79,000psi and the brass would be single use. But you're never going to get 72+ grains in that case.
With N555, you WILL get 100% burn at safe pressures, AND decent fill ratio and the safe max pressure (65,000psi) gets you around 2860fps with a 160gr bullet.
Welcome to the channel, hope to see you around.
Thanks for the vid! been wondering about Barnes new offerings. Excited to try their 280ai and 6 creed as well.
Thanks for watching!
So took your advice with my new 7PRC. Loaded up the rest of my first box of ADG brass 27rnds with my best initial load of 68gn RL26 175 Berger Elite Hunter at .020 off the lands. Clean barrel or shot a .320. I then chronograph 3 shots 2973, 2972, 2963, SD 5.4 ES 10. I also tried .015 and .025 off the lands. It didn't like
015 but .025 shot a .530. I then went to the 1k range and had fun hunting steel at 600, 800, 900, and 1000yds. 5 shots at 1000 was like half moa or a just a tad over half. Still have another 50 round to get to first 100 rounds down the barrel.
That is fantastic! Great job. That's what we want. Throw something together, get some data, and go break it in and LEARN something at long range.
After that hundred rounds, scrub her down good. Bring 20 rounds of your 68 grains @ .020 jump and re-foul the barrel. Shoot groups of three until they stabilize and shoot consistent. Then when the barrel is stable you can ladder up and down with the powder @ .020 jump to see if you find anything better.
If you don't and your original load shoots in the .3XXX's still and maybe speeds up a little, YOU'RE DONE, go practice. Every 2 to 300 rounds fired, check seating depth up and down 15 thou in .003 increments to see if your sweet spot moved. Shoot another 2 to 300 rounds, repeat until the barrel is toast. Get a new one and repeat the entire process.
I'm happy for you man, great stuff!
What powder would you start out with if you didn't have an old can of RL 26? H1000?
@tonylatham5915 despite what you see on a burn rate chart, H1000 is nothing like RL26.
THE MOST similar powder to RL26 is VV N560. As far as density, energy content, space it occupies in the case, etc. My second choice would be N565. That will actually match or exceed RL26 velocities. But takes up more space in the case and is optimal in 26" and longer barrels.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Thanks for your time.
Ok I'm not the only one to not be impressed with the Hornady outfitter ammo
My 7prc did NOT like it. 1.5” groups
@@woodywoodpecker3643 mine was more like 3-4" groups 😬 it shoots eldx's just under an inch at 100.
I have yet to find any rifle which likes it
Outfitter shot terrible in my 300 wsm as well. It’s a dud.
I really wanted it to shoot because we really like the 16ogr CX and it just won't shoot.
This is my favourite round for my 7PRC also. I have used LRX bullets for years in other cartridges. It is nice not having to hand load if you don’t want to.
Great video. Is that a sub 9 pound rifle? If so, how are you getting a minimal recoil signature? Is it because the stock is mounted to the tripod in the front?
Thank you! No that rifle was 9lb 13oz without the tripod.
It's a complete shooting system that we use to minimize recoil and rifle movement. Everything works together.
After watching this video and currently in the middle of the 7mm series, if you were to compare the bullet only, what are your thoughts on the Barnes lrx compared to the Hornady CX? Thanks for the great information, the videos have been great.
@darrenhavemann1040 Hey Darren, welcome to the comment section. The only experience I have with this 160 LRX is what I showed you.
Where the CX I shot a lot more.
I think BOTH are optimal in a 7.5" Twist. Especially the Barnes.
I think both will need the barrel cleaned every 60 to 80 rounds, or they will become erratic.
I think the BC is the same on both and I think they will both function and kill equally.
The design is identical. But the plastic tip is 70 thou longer on the Barnes. Meaning the Barnes is a touch long for an 8 twist under low elevation with cold temps.
If I shot that ammo today in Minnesota at the current temp of 7 degrees, the Sg would be only 1.26
Which is nowhere near fully stable. Anything below 1.5 and you start losing ballistic coefficient.
Much below 1.2 and oblong holes in the paper and tumbling are a possibility.
The CX under those same conditions would only be at 1.30 Sg.
So... BOTH bullets would benefit from a 7.5" twist.
I'm a total nerd on this stuff. Very cool!
Thanks James, I knew you fellow nerds would appreciate the deep dive.
What’s the twist rate in the 7 Prc?
@jonathanchandler4595 this rifle was a 1:8 twist. In my opinion, that is the bare minimum for the 160 LRX and 160 CX. People often don't realize how long these big monolithic bullets are.
The longest bullets in 7mm are in this order: 190 ATIP, 197 Smk, 160 LRX, 195 EOL, 160 CX.
EVERYTHING else is shorter.
I think for the bullets I listed above, THE BEST twist rate is 1:7.5
That's pretty crazy how your die was set up perfectly right away!!! I'd say you were on the right track for sure 😂 pretty lame Alliant isnt gonna sell to us anymore, but at least we still have Vihtavuori
Right!?! I about fell off my stool. Apparently I'm in the right place for BOTH bullets!
Yes, it is lame, but their availability has been so piss poor since before they even created RL16, RL23 & RL26 that I started phasing them out A LONG TIME ago. VihtaVuori, Hodgdon and IMR is what I use for all my "Serious" stuff. I play with other stuff, but just for close range Prairie Dog loads and fiddling around.
When you pulled the Barnes ammo, then reloaded it, did you uniform the necks prior or just reload?
They WERE uniform because they had a bullet in them and the nickel plated stuff typically has more neck tension than a brass only case. So I did NOT re-size the neck, but I did chamfer and debur the necks, because NONE of the factory ammo manufacturers do that.
Brilliant, thank you.
Thank you Mark!
Barnes has always been my go to for hunting ammo. Those bullets are the truth I feel like they are one of the only manufacturers who aren’t over embellishing their velocities as I’ve always found myself to be near or right at box even with slightly shorter barrels then the test variant.
Like you I’ve not been impressed with the Hornady ammo. I generally don’t like ELDX just as a hunting bullet but I’ve more or less been forced into it since it’s been the only option until lately. I haven’t tried the CX in my 7 PRC but if shoots anything like my 6.5 CM and 270 then it’ll be abysmal. Been waiting patiently for Barnes factory loads and I’m glad it’s finally here and performing well to boot. Can’t wait to get me a few boxes.
What is the OAL of that ammo? 7PRC w/ 160gn LRX bullet?
3.322" was the most common.
@@LittleCrowGunworks have you noticed better groups with more jump? I found .075” was giving me good results at 300yrds running 4831sc with the CX bullets.
@toddDHR haven't tried anything that deep yet.
when it first came out, there was a little information on it. Most everything I read was that it liked to jump. It seemed to be true for me. I’m at sea level. I’ll keep you posted if you’d like.
@@todd_0351 please do. I'm not jumping much with any rifle in the series.
Thanks for letting me know about Alliant. Just made my current load development way easier! Also, screw them and the horse they road in on! I've got their stuff in Rifle, Pistol, and Shotgun loads.... Guess it's onto the back up loads.
Hey Joe, yeah it sucks for sure. I have been unhappy with their poor supply for many years and started phasing them out probably 8 or 9 years ago. It's too bad.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Yeah, pretty much any organization absorbed by Vista Outdoors or Kinetic Group or whatever they're calling themselves this week is not interested in meeting demand for anything, almost like they're intentionally trying to sink the companies or at least prevent their growth. There's no way that the contracts are that good for all of the companies they've absorbed, to shut out the consumer market.
"2 or 3 inch group at 505 yards" says a great deal, right off the start, about a projectile I've been eyeballing since I saw it on Barnes' website.
I'm tinkering on a 145gr LRX load for my 280 - after this video series, and mulling over my limited results - due to downrange velocity concerns, but when I saw that Barnes was slotting a 160 to compete with Hornady, I was wondering to try it out.
Eager to see the results here - And to hear anything back on the N160 loads you may have been working on.
Stay tuned! 😉
Do you have any concerns with a 1:8” twist barrel stabilizing the new Barnes 160gr LRX? Their website states it’s 1.700” long and when plugging the data into a couple of twist rate stability calculators they both seem to show that it’s marginally stable (roughly 1.2 stability factor) and requires a 1:7” or 1:7.25” twist rate. This is using 1,000 elevation/density altitude which is usually about the lowest I hunt/shoot at.
@chrishudson7817 excellent question. While I completely agree with you, we tested at 1000ft AND used and 8 twist barrel.
If I was building a rifle for this specific bullet, I would use a 7.5 or 7 twist.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Glad to hear it worked out in real world application which is the important part 👍. Any thoughts on that being source of the random flyers in the grouping?
I’m wondering if from a stability standpoint the long plastic tip (low density/weight) in essence shortens the bullet length down to the tip of the hallow point.
Do you know the length from base to the tip of the copper hollow point opening and/or the length of the protruding polymer tip? I actually sent Barnes an email on this but haven’t heard back.
@chrishudson7817 what great questions.
I would guess the low stability is most likely to blame for the flyers. Followed closely by them running the balls off it, followed by inherent neck tension inconsistency of nickel plated brass.
The plastic tip is 100% included in the stability equation. Hollow point bullets are near weightless in the nose as well. I have actually tested this in real life.
I had some 105gr AMAX bullets that I wanted to get rid of. All I had at the time was a 9.25 twist 243 Winchester. I loaded up the Hornady manual max of RL19 at .015 jump. I loaded 5 rounds unmodified, which were "unstable". Then I loaded another 5 rounds that I cut the entire plastic tip off with a razor blade, which would make it stable by calculation.
The unmodified shot a 1.5" group at 100yds. The 5 with the tip cut off shot a half inch group. Same load, same day, same time.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Great info on the tips impact on at stability! And agreed that the running near max and neck tension are likely a factor there too. It looked like the pulled bullet you had laying next to the powder was shaved up pretty good from seating so seems like they’re running a good amount of neck tension. Either way those still shoot great for a factory load 👍.
I’m thinking about buying some of the 160LRX’s to try out in my 7 Sherman MEGA with a 23” 8 twist barrel, which runs about on par with the 7 PRC just a few grains more of case capacity in a XM action. I’ve been running the 150gr Badlands Bulldozers with great success but unfortunately can’t get those anymore and nearly out of them. A friend of mine has really liked the accuracy and consistency with hand loading the 160gr Hornady CX’s for his 7 PRC so will likely give those a try first. Going to load with RL26 but also had good success with H4831sc and VV555 with the 150gr Bulldozers so may give those a try as well.
@@chrishudson7817 I would stick with the CX for your application. I do think these are too long for an 8 twist in low altitude applications. I also think, by design, the LRX will have AT LEAST .070 longer COAL than the CX for the SAME jump.
Which may cause a length issue for you in an XM.
This was awesome!!!
Glad you think so!
@@LittleCrowGunworks yes sir! I’ve enjoyed the 7mm series. I’ve shot a 7mag most of my life. I’m only 24 but it’s been a nice cartridge. It’s not my long range build but 100-400 yards it’s taken countless white tails.
@DirtyComos good stuff.
diggin that tripod, whats that?
@@warddanger that is our "Thorofare" Ultralight Carbon Fiber Tripod that we brought to market specifically for hunters.
Check them out at www.littlecrowgunworks.com
Click the "Store" tab and type Thorofare in the search box.
Or check out the video about it on our RUclips channel.
Any plans to try the lrx loadings in the other 7s? The 152lrx in the 280ai?
I just bought a 28 Nosler and have tried Nosler, Hornady, and Barnes bullets in factory loads. The Barnes 168LRX shot a .73" three shot group at 100 yards and the others where 2" and over.
At least you found a winner!
I thought the hunter magazine wouldn’t work with origin action? Did you have to do any machining?
@@bunyon0341 nope, works excellent with no modifications.
How did their published bc compare to your observed drops. I know you only stretched out to 505. Just curious because their website shows a higher bc for the 160 than for the 168.
Hey John, I didn't shoot enough or far enough to assess that. I think it's close to advertised. But this ammo POI was shifting, which makes it almost impossible to reverse engineer BC. It's certainly higher than the 168 LRX.
I've tried the Hornady outfitter CX in my 7 REM mag, bergara wilderness ridge rifle. 1.5 - 2.1 inch groups. Maybe it would like the LRX as well...
Hey Jerry, that rifle doesn't have a tight enough twist to run these bullets. It looks like its a 9.5" Twist barrel. These bullets need an 8" twist at a minimum. A 1:7.5 twist would be better.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Thanks for the info! It shoots Federal premium 168 grain Berger hybrids very well... I would just like to find a copper bullet that it shoots well!
@jerrywhittaker1052 thats great to hear. The 168 Berger is the longest bullet you can stabilize. These mono's are MUCH longer than all of the Bergers except the 195gr.
160CX = 1.626"
195 Berger = 1.648"
160 LRX = 1.695"
168 Berger = 1.433"
THEY ARE LOOOOOOONG! And need WAY tighter twist than the 168 Berger.
The 145gr Barnes LRX @ 3240 is the Max performance you're going to get and fully stabilize in that rifle. H4831SC, N560 and IMR7828SSC.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Thank you! I have IMR7828SSC I will try out the LRX 145gr. Can't believe the amount of work you guys have put into the series! I love it though!
@jerrywhittaker1052 it's a labor of love. Use a chronograph, that velocity I gave you is 65,000psi. Approach with caution. Good luck, keep us posted.
Awesome videos. I love Barnes ammo and their bullets. I want to try their 168gr LRX.
I’m running those in my 7 prc 👌👌
The 160 does have 10% higher BC and you can push it 75fps faster at the same pressure. Which isn't everything, but worth noting.
@LittleCrowGunworks thanks for that good info/insight.
Awesome!!
Thank ya sir!
Tim, another impressive video. Gives me a new appreciation for Barnes. I will be shopping for a couple boxes to try. I have found similar experiences with Hornady CX factory loadings but want to find a copper load that will shoot. Perhaps I have.
I would try the Barnes. For every one good experience I hear with the Hornady Outfitter ammo, I hear 20 bad experiences. It's really too bad.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Had 2 hunts with my 6.5 PRC last month and only the 147 ELD-M shot well enough to consider for Antelope and when I later got a shot on an Axis deer; the bullet went in the shoulder and exploded the heart but no single piece was found when processing the meat. Last time for that and maybe the last time for the PRC in that rifle. Love the cartridge, just not the rifle.
I switched from Nosler to Barnes several years ago after taking a 6x6 bull at 630 yards with my 338-378 Weatherby. Now 98% of my reloaded ammo features Barnes bullets regardless of caliber.
They make a great product.
What does one of your custom rifle cost. I’m disabled so I’m looking for a super lite rifle to be able to walk and carry. So I’m going for something that shoots flat I live here in New Mexico. My wife just bought me a 6.5-300 weatherby mag. Vanguard meat eater edition. Do you guys make carbon fiber barrels for that rifle.
It's always good to know which factory ammo performs
the best in case you have to buy some, or just prefer to.
That's right.
Very impressive! Where can I get that hat?
You can't, unfortunately. The company that made them is now defunct.
Great video. RUclips must think so too since they added ads every five minutes 😂
Unfortunately THEY turned the ads on.🤷♂️
I currently have a 7 saw 26” 8 twist barrel with a type 2 chamber. Wanting a good mono bullet for it. Have you looked at the Cayuga bullets?
@SpudOutdoors you WILL NOT get the 170gr to shoot. I couldn't get it stable in a 7 twist 7 Rem Mag.
Egg shaped holes and 40% lower BC than advertised at 100yds.
The 151gr MIGHT shoot. But even if it does, they don't expand, they tumble.
After my experience with the 170 Cayuga, I've completely sworn off the "boutique" monolithic bullets.
The theoretical BC advantage, isn't worth the added cost and headache.
Due to your magazine constraints, I would shoot a 145LRX or a 150CX and be happy with it.
I personally think an 8 twist is marginal for the 160CX and 160 LRX, and very inadequate for the Cayugas.
Also, the Cayugas need WAY LESS freebore than is typically used with anyone's 7mm reamers.
I think you need to have your own reamer made SPECIFICALLY for the Cayuga, to even ATTEMPT to stabilize them.
@SpudOutdoors basically if it doesn't say Barnes or Hornady on the box, I'm not interested. It's not worth the headache.
@@LittleCrowGunworks thanks for the input. I have a .145 freebore and my mag box is just over 3” internal length.
Odd result in new Applied Ballistics app. Set this new factory load in the app and got an error message saying my 1:8 twist barrel would be insufficient. App says this projectile would be unstable out of a 1:8 and recommended 1:7.5?
@boggstucson5415 correct.
It's long. A stability under 1.5 Sg, doesn't mean the bullet will tumble. It means that you're not getting 100% of the BC due to yaw.
Monolithic bullets really perform best at 1.6 and higher Sg.
I agree that 7.5" Twist is optimal for the 160 CX and 160 LRX.
@boggstucson5415 it shot fine for me in this 8 twist, obviously.
But 7.5 twist would be better.
Ive shot factor barnes Lrx ammo in 270 win, 7mm rem and 300 win . Always has shot sub moa. Handloaded it in the 270 and got it shooting around 1/2 moa. Got factory federal TA for those guns too. It shoots around 1 moa in the 270 and easily under 3/4 moa in the other two. If u can get it the Terminal Accent is worth trying.
Oh I don't doubt it. But Federal is perpetually underwhelming with their supply chain.
what brass does barnes use?
@cc-hc1dr well it says barnes on the headstamp, but I dont know who makes it. Austin from Reloading Weatherby probably knows. He's pretty in tune with what Barnes and Weatherby are up to.
If I had to guess what was causing the flyers, it's the nickel plated brass.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Sierra owns Barnes since 2020. I have no idea where Barnes gets its brass though.
Not what I was expecting but very cool. I have 129gr LRX loaded up with h4350 in my 270 for mule deer this year. Popped a 5 inch plate at 640yards first try with it at the very end of all my testing. Seems to be a good bullet once you figure it out. I will not shoot it past 500 yards though with the velocity I’m getting which is plenty far anyways. Usually say if you can’t get within 300 you didn’t try hard enough anyways in most situations.
Great stuff Corey. Is that the load that you used my process for?
@@LittleCrowGunworks Yes I believe it was. I did some group testing before I got my Garmin but seating depth was off so groups sucked but it definitely favored h4350 over h4831sc.
I then got the Garmin xero and changed the seating depth to match the top relief groove like I’ve seen a few people recommend and that’s what they do in their factory loads. At this point I had seen your video and thought that’s so much better than a bunch of groups so gave it a try. Found that load after the ladder and small changes at sweet spots.
I did the same thing for the 110 Barnes ttsx I plan to use for whitetail in the 270 and got a .5-.6 moa load out of them at 3350fps. I like the method. Only way I’ve gotten a load quicker is dumb luck once haha.
@25:32 - I take offense to be called a nerd. 🙂 Very nice. Glad to see some good factory ammo coming out (cough Hornady!)
Only a nerd would pull factory ammo apart and reverse engineer what it is. Welcome to the channel.
@@LittleCrowGunworks been there, done that. Keep up the great content.
I have both the new 152lrx in 280 AI and 160lrx in 7prc. Both guns love the new factory loads. One mule deer buck is now very unhappy with the 160lrx. He now resides in my freezer and wall. One shot 325yds. 😀
Do you have the OAL of that 7PRC round?
Excellent video again! So reloaded 26 is a magic pill😂 . Reloaded 26 is great, but only have 1/2# left😢 Good results with N560
Very close to reloaded 26 velocity and ES. .560 groups
Use it up and say goodbye. N560 is great, with similar fill ratio and slightly less velocity than RL26 for the same pressure. While N565 will easily replicate RL26 velocity at the same pressure but takes up more space than RL26.
Thanks for checking in.
Will a mono bullet expand on the game at 600 yards? What is the velocity?
@cabochris100 yes. Common expansion minimums for tipped mono bullets are widely considered to be 2000fps. This factory ammo drops below 2000fps near sea level at 800yds. At 10,000ft elevation, that distance is 1200yds.
We dont encourage shooting at animals that far away, but this ammo/bullet combo is very capable.
Holy smokes! Ill have to see if i can get my mits on barnes ammo!
It's worth a shot anyway.
First time watching your channel and really like your contact and had to subscribe.....I am wondering if you have tested Hammer bullets in the 7prc
@bradbennett552 thanks Brad, welcome to the channel. I have not, I prefer more mainstream, expansion/mushrooms type monolithic bullets.
I think the way Hammer bullets work, can also be effective. But I think traditional mushrooms type mono's transfer energy better, causing more internal trauma.
Did you buy the LRX direct from Barnes? That's the only place I found them. Oh, nevermind. I commented too soon. Weatherby loads the Hammer bullet for 7PRC I think
Look at buds guns online, they have it or did yesterday. Good price too!
For better or worse, we're not paying Weatherby prices to test their ammo.
@@LittleCrowGunworks I wouldn't either. I've never owned a Weatherby, in part, because they want half your pension to buy their ammo or even their brass for loading
2 together and 1 out has nothing to do with barrel heating up?
@cabochris100 it can. I think in this case it is because they are running it so hot.
Are these 160 lrx bullets available for us hand loaders? I was working up a load for the 168 lrx bullet now. Didn't know they offered a 160.
@@andywilson5049 Yes, but they are not out to distributors yet. You have to buy them on the Barnes website. It's a brand new bullet.
Hey Tim, I just ordered 2 boxes of 170 grain federal terminal ascent off the federal website, might take a look and see if you can get lucky, ammo arrived yesterday. I’d like to see a video on your results with that bullet!
I hear ya Brandon, but it has to be available. I can't chase Federal around looking for their ammo and recommend it to my customers, knowing it's almost non-existent.
That's why I excluded Alliant powders from our 7mm Series. Because Alliant is owned by the same conglomerate and they all have piss poor supply chains.
@@LittleCrowGunworks makes total sense, I appreciate your matter of fact attitude towards what’s practical and available!!
Weatherby does a 177Hammer in 7prc
It’s 177 gr and was garbage on 2 Seekins PH2’s, Browning xbolt and one Ruger American. The Hammer HHT 170 gr is a good bullet but soon will switch over to these LRX 160 gr bullets.
I can't justify even testing Weatherby Factory ammo at what they sell it for. Not worth finding out.
I can promise you it’s RL 26, I have a couple of pounds RL 25 and met the velocity exactly at the lowest charge. We also bought a couple of the first boxes of the Hornady 175 Eld-x and hit 3080 fps out of a 26” barrel and same hole group at 100 yards. Subsequent ammo lots went to crap, couldn’t get accuracy and couldn’t get the same velocity 2875. Same exact experience as you. Have tried other powders but couldn’t duplicate the RL 26/25. And yes if you don’t want to reload there is no need for the 7 PRC
Damn fine shooting. I have Remington Sendero 7mm mag that shoots like that with Hornady ammo. My magic gun. Loll
Great series you’ve put together here. I’m just getting into the reloading scene and appreciate the no BS and data driven approach you’ve shared here. I live in CO with the western game out my back door but also travel to the Michigan woods each fall for whitetail. I’m leaning towards settling on the new 160 lrx for my 7prc. Would you still use this on midwestern whitetail or develop a separate load for that different style of hunting? (Dense woods, short shots, thinner skinned)
I've always had good luck with Barnes factory ammo from both velocity and accuracy perspectives. Also, I need a box of those for my 7rm. Looks like the bullet itself is not available yet?
Edit: they are available directly from Barnes. Couldn't find them anywhere else though.
Correct, it's so new, it's not at the distributors and retailers yet.
Absolutely excellent video. I've been looking for reviews on this bullet since a Barnes technician mentioned it dropped while calling in for another question. You tested as well as I could have hoped for. I see those kickers in my 110gr Tac tx handloads in my 308. I think it might be inconsistency with those extra long tips. I've had 4 under 0.5 in a cheap factory rifle only to have the 5th kick out to like 1.2 and other 5 shot groups with much the same, but with a different shot in the string being the asshole. The only thing extra I'd like to see is a low velocity gel test. Whether that's at distance, downloaded plus moderate distance, or run in 7mm-08 running a reduced H4895 charge. I'd like to see that bullet hit below 2300 fps to confirm its terminal performance.
I’ve got sub moa groups with CX rounds at 300 yards using 66gn 4831sc at .080” jump. Getting the occasional flyer.
The LRX rounds shot better than the CX at both 65.5gn and 66gn, minimal difference between 3.320” & 3.280” OAL. All above 3000fps with 22” steel sporter barrel.
Also loaded a few CX with the new Ramshot Grand that’s supposed to be for PRC.
It shot TIGHT.
SD of 3.0 and deviation of 6.7 averaged 3018.0fps
Going to send LRX loaded with 70gn Grand at 3.300” OAL tomorrow
R26 is very temperature sensitive, that was the problem with the original M118lr in early days Afghanistan, it was loaded with R15 and got switched out to imr4064. If R26 works, H1000 should work pretty good. And it's not temp sensitive
@hedgeapplehomestead2816 I agree that RL26 is Temp Sensitive. Although H1000 and RL26 are near each other on the burn rate chart they have zero similarities. I know people use H1000 in the 7 PRC but it's a poor choice. It's too bulky for the 7 PRC case.
N565 is not temp sensitive and is the optimal powder for the 7 PRC for 24" and longer barrels, and it will replicate RL26 velocities at the same pressures, but requires another 1.5 to 2 grains to do it.
Not sure if this is helpful, but I’ll throw it out there. I’m at sea level basically, 75*, 41% humidity. LRX 160gn, 4831sc 66gn, 3.300” OAL. Shot 1.5” groups at 300 yards. Consistent groups, unlike the CX. Flew a little flatter by about .5 moa. That was .020” deeper than the setup I had for the CX bullets. I hope it’s in the ball park for other people too
I just tested norma BondStrike today with my 24” barrel 7prc. 5 different 3 shot groups averaged .62” at 100 with average velocity of 2965 per my garmin. Also want to test terminal ascent and grab a gun finally had it in stock so ordered but haven’t shot yet. BondStrike seems to hold decent weight and have decent penetration also but even more important is it shot great today.
Yesssss. I have had so much luck with the Norma bond strike in 6.5, 300 win and 300 wsm. I literally just saw these came out.
Great stuff, as always
For the 2 in/1 out; was it always 1+2 together and 3 out, or 1+3 together 2 out, or random?
It's my understanding that Barnes and Alliant are owned by the same parent company. So hopefully they will always have some RL26 available.
I've shot this out of a Waypoint, and it's the most accurate round that rifle has ever seen.
H'mmm, redo the 7mm challenge with this bullet instead of the CX?
I'm going to concur with ccfdmd! I think Little Crow needs to re due the whole series with the Barnes 160 LRX
Knock it off Austin, LOL. If someone wants to volunteer to fund it, we can.
I also forgot to mention that if you listen to the backcountry hunting podcast, a few weeks ago they had a representative from Barnes on discussing this bullet. This episode has not made it to their RUclips channel yet
He discusses the overall design of the bullet and what it was designed to do, targeted at. This was specifically made for a 7 prc. They make a 168 lrx, but this new one has a much better ballistic coefficient
@@LittleCrowGunworks I agree with Austin, my night drives are lacking in interesting new things to listen to and ReloadingWeatherby only produces 9 minute videos, typically…. 😂
Does anyone else find any validity in everyone talking about loss of accuracy shooting between monolithic and lead core projectiles without cleaning?
@WCFD5045
I have not. I shoot both on the same day all the time without cleaning. No effect on precision.
@@LittleCrowGunworks ok thank you.
Seating depth?
It's around .050 jump.
bought same ammo for my new howa 7mm prc
What is the reason for using carbon fibre barrels is it for a lighter hunting rifle,in the world of f-class and benchrest shooting no carbon fiber barrels or chassis only ss steel and laminate stocks or carbon stocks.Verry good video liked it good information 👌👌
Thank you for joining us! Yes, you are correct, it is for weight reduction. I am very familiar with competition shooting. Some guys like how the carbon fiber barrels look as well.
I love my Sig cross sawtooth 24inch 7prc
I’m thinking about hunting with the Barnes
I would if it shoots well in your rifle.
I reached out to Alliant directly, and they informed me that they are not cancelling all sales to reloading consumers
Well that's not what they are telling companies that order their powders to re-sell it to you guys. Do me a favor, go on Graf & Sons and see how much Alliant Powder is IN STOCK....
Let me know when it gets better and when it finally comes back in stock, what the price is. The problem is they have powders made for them in Sweden, Switzerland and the US and none of their supply chains are great. The little bit that becomes available for you guys will be extremely expensive. They shot down one of their powder producing plants to re-purpose the equipment for a new plant. That will take YEARS to recover from.
One of our local reloading supply stores that sells our trimmers actually received a couple 8lb jugs of RL16 for the first time in over a year. I assume it was an old backorder. This store is always very competitive on powder prices. They were selling these 8lb jugs of RL16 for $587.95...
That's $73.50/lb!!! NO THANKS! I can buy VihtaVuori any day of the week for $44/lb.
It's not going to improve any time soon. They can tell you whatever they want. It doesn't match what they're DOING.
Looks like Barnes stole your seating depth info… those bastards! 😂 Those are some tiny groups at 500 yards. I’ve been trying to find some factory 7prc ammo that works for me and the outfitter was not it. Neither was the eldx/m.
I literally paused your video and went to Barnes and tried to order the 160 lr and of course- they don’t ship to CA!!!! Can’t find any elsewhere. Yet….
I couldn't believe it. Almost fell off my stool.
Just wait a bit, it will be trickling out here soon.
Good content
Thanks for joining us, Lane.
The problem with this bullet is that Barnes seems to be hoarding them for their loaded ammo.
@tonylatham5915 right. Thats pretty typical. They will produce a few million rounds before they worry about handloaders.
@@LittleCrowGunworks Thanks!
I averaged 3000fps with this out of my 22” Seekins.
2780 fps with Hornady ELDX 175 out of the same rifle.
The group with my Barnes was 10x better.
Hey, if they don't sell RL26 to public, everyone should boycott everything they sell.😊
I already have, personally.
It does not make me happy with Alliant.
Seems like they don't want to support reloading.
Imagine if the other brands did the same thing.
What's next? No factory ammo after that.
What happens if the military decides they want it all?
Yes, I agree. I haven't been happy with Alliant's piss poor supply chain for almost a decade now. I started phasing their powders out in 2015.
Good video but if the bullet isn't made by berger I'm not shooting it facts bergers 184 or 195 7mm bullets always shoot great
I know they do. We don't like using Target bullets on Elk. That doesn't mean you can't, but we don't promote it. You can watch our 7mm Showdown Series if you care to find out why.
Well shoot. Nothing like spending $500 based on your prior load dev videos stating to go test all these different powders all to find out factory ammo is best. Haha.
Nah, you can still do better if your handloading practices are sound. This ammo does have a pretty drastic point of impact shift. But I cant say if it's the ammo or the carbon fiber barrel.
Stand 10 of these bullets up and look at the tips from above, every one shows copper on one side or the other, damn tips are seated crocked... my 25-06 shoots the same , 2 together 1 out
I think the 2 together and one out is more a function of how hot the load is.
In my experience, that is the sort of thing that happens when you approach or exceed 65k psi.
If they let the load down 50-100fps, that would likely go away.
I was really hoping Barnes was using a powder we can actually buy. I am so tired of everything being a shortage or a panic or inflation or politics bla bla bla. Shooting and reloading is challenging enough when components are available.
If you have a 24" or longer barrel, you can use N560 or N565, you will get similar results.
lol..aha!
Sounds to me like you’re becoming a 7prc fan.
I wouldn't say fan, but it is very easy to make it shoot well.