Parkour Science #2 Physics of the Vertical Wall Run- Tutorial
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 22 окт 2024
- First tutorial video of the ParkourScience series, Physics of the wall run. This video will hopefully let you fully understand all aspects of the wall run previous to the climb up and how to better fix your technique as well as student's and friend's techniques.
Not responsible for any injury you incur by trying anything in this video
....but you already know that don't you?...
Don't do anything stupid
A few of the physics explanations in this video are slightly oversimplified for easier understanding by viewers, the results however remain the same.
![Chino Pacas - Modo Capone (with Drake & Fuerza Regida) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/zjv8TQ0gBkg/mqdefault.jpg)
Sooooo good I've been needing parkour and physics to be put together
thanks for this video, this is the only one that I've seen that seems to address my problem of going backwards rather than upwards
+Electrical Magic Glad I could help. Good luck!
ParkourScience recently got my max height to 10 ft.
The hand placement has two purposes, it is useful for safety if your foot slips it keeps you from hitting your face on the wall and it creates a second smaller set of forces analogous to the foot placement on the wall and provides just a few extra inches of upward height by pushing against the wall and down.
Thank you very much. After watching this video I decided to compare my wall runs from how I typically do them versus doing wall runs following the tips from the video. I saw a much greater improvement in my height. Can't wait to see more of your videos!
Good question. You are correct, for a long or high jump this is a factor. For a wall run though, because of the need for the normal force and frictional force when you hit the wall to be as near equal as can be for maximum height the angle of the take off needs to be just under 45 degrees. A long jumper,, because they can run much faster than they can jump uses that torque to get a higher angle, even still they run MUCH faster then they can jump up resulting in an average long jump 21 degrees.
thank you so much for taking the time to do the math and science no one else wants to do. you have probably saved my physics project
you don't mind if I use these equations do you? If I post the resulting video on youtube, I'll accredit the work to you.
Sup3rConnor
Thanks, glad I could help. Yeah go for it, if you need any other help let me know at parkourscience@gmail.com.
as a physics enthusiast, I have to say that this video made me quite happy.
Good idea, I would have had to find the theory myself if you hadn't done it! Parkour IS science, thank you for bringing it back to it! Please don't chastise yourself at the beginning of the video, though, it doesn't help and it draws the attention on your weak points, so that doesn't make you look good. I'm looking forward to your next videos!
Fantastic, I'm going to check out the rest of your videos.
Someone doing this kind of stuff on parkour and skateboarding has been always a dream to me, thanks for making this!, I actually found quite a lot of mistakes in my technique so I guess next time I try it I will improve a lot (since I can't try at the moment because of an injury)
dude.... you're awesome! I've been looking for videos like this for a while. This is really helpful!!!
THANKS...adding science to parkour makes it easier for me to understand.
It seems odd I know, but the upward speed won't change for any given person but a traceur will change the angler by maintaining the upward speed and height while increasing distance and forward speed resulting in a lower angle, this is not only necessary for the greater normal force but also because of the more complex effects of the angular interaction with the wall.
You have done a great thing for the world of Parkour, as much as it is a state of mind and being confidant, Physicis is always constant. I would highly recommend you keep this up, I would love to place your videos on my site and have a play list on my you tube page for them, will you allow that. Best wishes and keep it up.
I know that you said taking another step in the wall run doesn't help that much but in my experience doing both the take off and the second placing of the foot correctly has actually helped me reach higher places. But the problem is if you got the take of wrong and if you have more kinetic friction it will most of the time fail. But hey parkour science hasn't been done this detailed before so there's going to be lots of stuff to research.
as an important side note... if it's not a traditional wall run like the edge you are grabbing sticks out or is perpendicular to the wall you are stepping on, or if the wall you are stepping on is slanted, the two steps begins to have a major advantage over the one step.
Awesome tutorial man loved it
you are correct but in order for that to help, the muscles of the bottom leg must support the action of the driving knee... if those muscles are already driving as hard as they can they are at their limit of driving force , adding the driving force of the other leg wont increase the ability of the muscles in the planted leg.
Correct, though not an assumption. The human body uses a specific set of muscles to jump up while running. Controlling the impulsive speed of those muscles at a run is difficult, traceurs usually just use full power (or close to it), this results in the upward speed being limited by the persons biology. Contrary to what you might expect, running faster does not significantly add to or detract from the power of the upward thrust. (critical is good thank you for bringing up concerns)
You would expect that but it turns out that because the height of the foot placement and the speed of upward jump are fixed the speed of the run up ends up directly correlating to distance of the jump. Not having that distance in conjunction with the increased run up speed will result in quite a crash. The further analysis of this showing the correlation was a bit too complex and drawn out to put into the video, its counter intuitive to someone who knows their physics, but surprisingly true here
well my thought is that it does have a source for the force because the first step on the wall and the driving knee occur at nearly the same time, so it's similar to the momentum in the knee pushing upwards in a climb up because the foot is still planted on the wall as the knee drives
More spreading of knowledge the merrier. Thanks. I will keep em coming.
Good question. Short answer is no... not really. The reason that the arm throw helps in a normal jump is usually because it aids in angular efficiency of the jump. In the case of a wall run (especially at max height) the run up is much more efficient in facilitating an ideal angle and the arm throw will actually not help due to the limitations of the leg muscles (the equal and opposite action of the arm swing must go through the legs as well)
Great work.
Have you done calculations for an inclined wall and/or for a wall with an effective mu>1 (such as a rock wall with many small protusions)?
Is this published anywhere? I would love to see the details.
Cheers
Are you referring to his 4 levels of climb up? because a wall run and a climb up are two entirely separate movements. I don't see any 4th level wall run video on his page... either way this video covers the physics necessary to achieve a maximum wallrun the physics will remain the same regardless of technique.
does the coefficient of friction decrease as you get better at placing your foot on the wall? so for more advanced its .6 rather than 1? or does it decrease when you loose grip?
Would it be possible to go even higher by putting two feat?
Like once you do the fist foot put the other foot even higher(running up the wall).
Please respond.
I discussed it a little in the video and further on a few threads here. No, because the normal force is finite on a straight vertical wall, using one step or two will get the same vertical height. The normal force (and by extension the friction available) will either be split between the feet or used up almost entirely from the first step.
yea i was thinking of that, i know the phs would be the same for the 1st part of the wall run but when you need that much power for that specific 4 th level of the climb up, i would think the equation would change for more power is needed for all attributes of the entire technique, the 1st part aids to the second, the second being the climb up.
If you learned it in a way that made you more adept to two step runs then the second step will work for you better. But due to the nature of the limited normal force the second step doesn't prove to be more effective than placing the hand and vice-versa. By that I basically mean which ever way you learn it will work. They both have advantages and disadvantages but the height for each will generally be the same (but not the same for each person)
So, I completely understand what you mean, but it seems like the first step on the wall is still in contact with the wall when the second knee is pushing up, and still prior to taking a second step. meaning it has a source for the force. look at 6:22 in the video
Correct. it does not help give extra height (it can help your balance a little bit, but not power or height) It doesn't hurt either though, so if you are used to doing it, it may be best to keep it so you don't throw off the rest of your technique.
does the coefficient of friction decrease as you get better at placing your foot on the wall? so for more advanced its .6 rather than 1?
you can add more steps and use both hands to push against the wall to add more height as your momentum carries your upward.
Excellent, man! That was uber helpful.
It decreases when you lose grip. More slipping means lower coefficient of friction and vice-versa.
Driving the knee up doesn't violate newtons laws, the idea that it adds power does. consider where the equal and opposite reaction occurs when you drive the knee up. The net force from that knee drive has to have a source and it is the push off of the wall that provides the normal force to do so, the push off the wall is done with the other legs muscles which are limited in the power they can produce. thrusting the other knee up won't add any power as a result.
Does throwing your arms up like when you do during a normal jump help during a wall run?
I will make sure to spread this video to every Traceur that I know.
Since the force created by the arm swing (or knee kick) goes through the legs, shouldn't the wall react that exact force given a friction coefficient of 1? If so, why wouldn't this force aid in the height?
what shoes would you suggest? and which do you wear in the Video?
When reaching the top of the wall with one hand, does it matter which hand you use to reach?
Of course, Glad to help.
I doesn't provide upward momentum anymore than without, but you do make a good point for the benefit of a faster climb up.
Great video! Loving it. Is some of this footage from Dukes campus?
Thanks. Nope I believe this is all New Haven, CT
Ok cool
Excellent. Now I can mindfully improve my performance!
What a great video this is.
Hey can you explain me how you did determine the speed of the run up?
Long jumpers (and traceurs alike) place their foot slightly in front of their center of gravity at take-off. This creates a torque that adds to the height of the jump and ultimately the distance. Why would this not be the same for a wall-run?
You are doing good videos. Keep along.
I wouldn't say it was possible to have a mu>1 but you would start having normal force be in your favor at that point... this would have little to no effect on the science of the one step wall run but might in fact make the two step more effective. (There was a paper but every video I make makes the paper more outdated :P )
That's my goal. Glad to hear it.
how does driving the knee upwards violate newton's laws? in any case, it's beneficial with or without a second step at least for no other reason than to be in position for a strong climb up, which in my experience always involves an upward driving knee as well. but honestly i do think it does give a slight boost of upward momentum.
I am actually not sure on this I think there may be an advantage to putting up the same side hand as the foot on the wall to avoid torque but I haven't analyzed that angle of it.
I'm still confused what the purpose of the hand placement is when doing the wall run.
Aw man. I thought I had a great idea when doing analysis of PK techniques and explain those with physics and math. I'm also working in this kind of videos for my team (Parkour Monterrey). Would you mind if i save some work and use some of your equations? My math is not as strong as yours (I'm a chemist) so I forgot to include some variables in my equations.
Awesome job!!!
Greetings from Mexico!
I love your channel keep it up
hey, how did you determine the speed Vx?
awesome tutorial ...i dont knew how to climb up plz make for it bro
That one was on the back burner but I will try to get it in by the 7th video or so for you.
ok, this science works well for this "begginer" wall run. but look at demon drills'es 4 th level of the wall run. i'm thinking it would have tottaly different stats to it since its like 100 times more effective
Hey, where's the climb up analysis you promised? :(
Unfortunately It was scheduled to be the next video before I quit, I have toyed with the idea of finishing that video at least recently but have been too busy as of late. It may come but I don't want to get peoples hopes up.
+ParkourScience
Thanks for acknowledging
please do more videos
do videos about flips physics ,
front/bakckflip...
considering the equation for vertical displacement g = (Vf^2-Vo^2)/2y... solving for Vo (note that Vf is zero because we are looking for max height) you get the Voy=sqrt(2gh) from there at the ideal 45 degrees Vox = Voy for a 45 take off when mu = 1 and Vox increases as mu decreases.... and I just re watched and realized I multiplied in the videos where it should have divided.... oops... fixing
Yo, thanks dude. It helped. I can't believe it.
Awesome, glad to hear it.
Do vans shoes have enough grip to be "good" parkour shoes? Please respond as I don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on shoes if I have like 5 suitable pairs in my garage.
MrDavoder I would expect they don't. I have tested parkour shoes for grip level but not other shoes. Don't spend hundreds of dollars though, from what I have tested the mid range price ones have the best grip.. Ollos and KOs are the best in my opinion and are between $40-$60.
I trained in vans once... Never again....
Lol hehe over reacting a bit but compared to basic running shoes theyre not much at all
U cnt feel thru them and i dont find them grippy enough. But that might just be mine. If u like them then use them :D
Awesome, that's what I like to hear. Thanks.
thanks for the tutorial seeing this I learn what I was doing wrong you have to jump against the wall I was doing is wrong
I'll preface this with saying I know next to nothing about physics. I just have a question about the raising of the knee for extra height. When I'm standing in front of something short like a bench and take off with my right foot, then land on my right foot, I find that I can jump higher when I swing my left knee up. Why is that? Does unweighting or the momentum of my left leg have anything to do with that?
Not a bad question. So the effects of lifting the opposing leg while doing a running or standing jump is surprisingly quite different from the case of a wall run. when doing a standing jump like that, you are correct, because of the long contact with the ground throwing the other leg up can be done shortly before the jumping thrust (unlike the wall run) and thus will provide a small momentum boost.
That actually makes a lot of sense! Thanks you!
So the difference then is the duration of the other planted foot then? To me planting a foot, then raising a leg on the ground vs planting a foot on a wall, then raising a leg while less effective, seem like very similar things. As well, the contact on the ground assuming you are running should be almost the same? Is it that it doesn't provide substantial gains in height or is it that it doesn't have any gains at all?
omgtrmc Duration is the simplest way to describe it but it's not at all the whole story. The major difference is normal force. the normal force on the ground is vertical (ie the direction you are jumping) and is produced by gravity which never stops of course. On the wall the normal force is created by deceleration of your running speed which quickly runs out. Assuming you are jumping for max height off the wall, your leg will provide a certain amount of force (as much as it can) taking advantage of that short normal force for sake of jumping up using frictional force (on the ground you are not limited by this) pulling up the leg has to make use of that same force on the wall, which is finite and based on running speed, grip, and jump angle. On the ground however (standing at least) you have time to flex one set of muscles to lift the leg and another set (which is no longer limited by frictional force) to thrust secondarily, giving your body two (sort of) different momentum providers) not limited by friction and a diminishing normal force. For the second question It may provide a better jump angle for some people but no it provides no gains at all (outside of comfort for personal technique) That is to say I am not at all saying "don't do it." just that it doesn't effect the jump if you do or don't do it already. A running jump is different from both of these for various reasons. but the leg lift does help a running jump.
ParkourScience what kind of degree do you have? Technical science?
delta freerunning I double majored in Applied Mathematics and Physics
Other videoo like this i swear you!!! To much usefull
Good point, thanks.
Yeah this only covers the physics of the first part of the wall run at maximum height. If you drop the height to about 2 feet lower then your max then the climb up and the wall run physics begin to overlap each other and then you are right that the power transfer will look different. At maximum height though the climb up remains 100 percent separate from the wall jump which is why I tried to make the distinction that we would cover the climb up in a later video. Thanks for your comments :)
indeed it was.
Tanks a lot, very helpfull!!
nice tutorial .
i want for climb up
Thanks, really glad I could help.
Makes sense... THANK YOU!!!!
AWESUM TUTORIAL...PLZZ MAKE FOR CLIMB UP
my only problem is that my foot is sliding on the wall.
I'm 6ft and I can make it up 12-13ft walls with a one foot wallrun, I'm gonna post a vid in the summer:) I still feel like there might be room for improvement later but I guess that means I'm doing alright right now lol, I've been doing parkour and freerunning like my whole life though (not lying or trying to be cocky).
Totally just checked him out, Thanks. Pretty impressive. Very interesting movements. still follows the laws of physics though :)
(though in a few of those shots it can be hard to believe.)
And on english this means...?
It has nothing to do with the wall. Let me explain in a different way... do you believe you can jump higher if you throw a weight into the air and hold on to it, than you can just having that weight on you back? You can't, because in the end your legs still have to push the weight. Your knee/other leg is that weight when it comes to the wall run. Does that make sense? If not this has been a very big discussion so I may make a quick video to explain this point alone, so everyone gets it.
It tends to end up being a case by case basis depending on your shoes, technique, and the grip of the wall... best bet is through trial and error... Try it out... if you jump from the right place and still slip on the wall you may want to try running faster, if you crash into the wall (without slipping) you might need to run a bit slower. let me know if this helps.
I don't like science or math but this is really interesting
I am wearing Know Obstacles from WFPF in the video... I prefer KOs and Ollos myself. I will be making a video on shoes at some point in the future as well.
Great tutorial :D Like
Yes, the liquid walls are the true challenge.
i did that and it was awsome :D
I doubted this at first as well.
(let me know if that answered your question. Reached character limit)
just use your dominant hand
thnx dude :)
Though pulling the knee up sometimes adds power in other techniques in parkour (in the form of supplementing to make up for lack of firing speed of the leg muscles), it doesn't in a high wall run. Thank you for your questions and comments, let me know if this explanation clears it up.
great video but now I have a headache
i carry a tape measurer all the time while training!!! haha
You obviously have never met Jo Paloma
Outside
the max I can wall run is 9,20 feet
approximatly
The max I can wall run with the sheos I have is, 10.6 ft. :)
NERD PARKOUR OF COURSE XD physics all over this video...