Bergmann No 2 / 1896
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- Опубликовано: 17 ноя 2024
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The No.2 was Bergmann's first offering of a civilian pocket pistol, introduced in 1896 alongside the larger-framed No.3 and No.4 pistols. It was chambered for a truly anemic 5mm cartridge, using a simple blowback system simplified from the first Bergmann-Schmeisser design. It used a 5-round Mannlicher-style en bloc clip, and early examples did not actually have extractors. This was changed fairly quickly, however. The most notable factory option was a folding trigger, which was only available on the No.2.
Those Bergman circular trigger guards gotta be one of my favourite aesthetic design features on any gun
Definitely a big "Thank You" to the collector for letting us see these. Ian, you have really shown the progression the design of these guns took. Looking forward to seeing the next video.
Reckec b
35 grains at 580 fps that's 26 ft/lbs of energy. A .22 lr is 100-200. This cartridge was literally about as powerful as a $150 pellet gun, but to make matters worse, with those ballistics it must have dropped like a bowling ball, and according to Wikipedia, the bullet tumbled in air too. What were they thinking? Wasn't there any established cartridge they could build around instead of making their own uniquely awful cartridge?
You be more likely to deter an attacker by showing him the pistol, if you fired it you'd just piss someone off and probably get a beatdown.
That's actually half of my manually operated budget pellet rifle. Suddenly puts things in perspective lol
Its like they saw a gun then tried to do it but it turned out like the African air forces videos 😂😂😂
Regarding 10:00: Gaggenau and Suhl are separate towns around 350km apart. The "Gaggenau" actually refers to the "Eisenwerke Gaggenau" (Ironworks Gaggenau), the industrial firm Bergmann entered in 1880. They were cooperating (or bought into, not sure there) with the weapons manufacturer V.Ch.Schilling (VCS) in Suhl to produce these pistols. I think the cooperation continued well into the 1930s when the then "Industriewerke Gaggenau" were building the Simson brand of cars.
shevek72. “Anfangs warb Bergmann im Thüringschen Suhl Waffenmeister ab. Später betrieb er dort eine eigene Waffenfabrik.“
michael-fluerscheim.de/luftpistolen-aus-den-eisenwerken/
i really love the look of these bergmann pistols, both the No.1´s and the No.2´s, they are very steampunkish
ikr they look incredibly cool
Steffen Mikkelsen they'd make good star wars holdout blasters, too
i'm not super knowledgeable about guns but isn't han solos blaster pretty much a space luger?
Spectral it was a modified mauser c96 and also the other weapons were custom versions of normal guns
thanks. i'm British this is my only source of gun knowledge. i've never even shot or SEEN a working gun.
9:56 Suhl actually is a town in Thuringia. That's where the factory was, where the gun was build. Gaggenau is a town in Baden-Wuerttemberg, where Bergmann lived. Suhl has a large tradition in mining, hence the picture of the miner.
I dont know for sure but the miner could be a "picture of himself" cause "Berg-mann" translates to "Mountain Man". So a Miner is called "Bergmann" in german!
It's an interesting mix of almost scifi lines and Victorian overall look.
This series of pistols were used to design the #mandalorian pistol!
This series of pistols were used to design the #mandalorian pistol!
I don't know where you are and I'm not going to ask but this person you are visiting has the most amazing collection! Thanks for letting Ian show them to us whoever you are!
I absolutely love the outer shape of the Bergmanns, IMO it should be in the MOMA, because it's a design rarity and in mint condition absolutely gorgeous.
In John Wayne's movie Big Jake his son uses a pistol described as a "pro-type Bergman model of 1911" which was actually a prop built off of a Walter P38 to closely resemble the Bergman No 2 aesthetically...I always found it interesting that with the other more popular/successful semi-auto handguns of the period such as the C96 that they picked the a Bergman but it did get me to research what a Bergman was years back....interesting guns...
A video on how manufacturing processes were done throughout the history of firearms would be fascinating.
Really cool old pistols. I hope you cover the Bergmann/Bayard again in this series.
Yep, we will get to those.
Waw just did the math and a 2.25g 177ms bullet is about 35 joules. There's compressed air gun that are more powerfull than that. The one i use at my shooting club is already 20 joules.
Very enlightening series Ian et al. Many thanks. Hope you all enjoy a happy and healthy year ahead! All the best from the UK.
Another excellent and informative video. As a matter of interest all European guns of this era were marked with a bore size, if you look at Adams percussion pistols they were only described by their bore size. Many thanks for uploading this Bergman series. You appear to have some very strange people among your viewers/commentators?
Glad you like the series! RUclips comments are not for the faint of heart. :)
hoilist: In that case you are normal, as far as i'm concerned.
RUclips comments aren't exactly known for their high quality; but, to be fair, Ian's comment section is still amongst the most civil and informative you'll find on RUclips... kinda goes with the quality of the channel :)
I'm not strange. You're strange. LOL!!
I'm proud to be one of them!
Thank you for including metric weight and velocity!
If possible, take a little scale with you, in many cases the weight of the gun would be very interesting. Love your work, keep it up!
Incidentally, we still make stuff in a generic form in factories, before adding the trademark of a contracting customer and shipping it to them.
It's generally known as OEM manufacturing, IIRC.
really enjoying this series so far, keep up the good work Ian!
At the least, you could readily operate those folding trigger models in Winter with a gloved hand; a silver lining to every thing.
Awesome video series on these pistols. Amazing job on the video and commentary.
These guns are just so cool looking.
The style of these Bergmanns seems very art nouveau to me.
Courtney Falk I see that- and I've always thought the P35/Browning Hi-Power had an element of Art Deco, with the scalloping of the frame and receiver just aft of the muzzle.
It would be nice to remake them, maybe in .22 L.R., just for fun..! (...I know, it would be a bit expensive gun, but...)
Many thanks Ian, by your superb job.
Regards..!
I would just like to say that this yours is my favourite channel on RUclips. not only the mechanics but the history of these guns is fantastic and I would just like to say although I do not have the means to donate I will continue to watch every single video, keep up the great work, and thanks.
What interesting looking pistols. Looking forward to more from this series!
Thanks, very interesting, did I miss that you show the cartridges?
I love this series, go ahead
Ahhhhhh! I really wanted to see the little cartridge up close. Very interesting pistol
exactly what i was thinking
Sorry, IIRC I have the ammo in the No.3 video.
Forgotten Weapons he also showed the ammo during the magazine portion of the first video .
Tristin M I believe that was a 6.5mm round you are referring to in the first video.
half the power of the .22 short? it's a wonder it had the power to cycle the action against the recoil spring!!!
I would really love to see a video about the as val, it deserves more recognition
Gaggenau is in the Black Forest, Suhl in the Thuringian Forest.
These two towns are 350km apart.
Maybe the Bergmann Company had two different factories in both towns?
"Thüringen" here take mine
Im excited for the next ones.
also, your channel got me into historic / early guns, Hopefully a Hobby that wont drain my finances too much in the future
Seems like the morphing stage where revolver evolved into the pistol in the sense we see it now. An important step.
Wow, never knew how thin these #2 are...crazy.
It is interesting to see this safety vent hole for case rupture for such "weak" cartridge.
Sounds like Edison and all his employees. One of his employees designed the longer lasting light bulb and because he was under contract Edison got to take credit. All or almost all corporations do this exact thing today
Hello from a new subscriber - I know it's daft, but the serial number of the gun marked with the London retailer was 658, not 656.
Not sure why I felt the need to tell you this? Maybe if you keep records or have the numbers with the local law enforcement, it may become useful? Probably not. (Now I'm imagining a film noir, where a stolen gun used in a murder was listed with the wrong serial number.....). Ignore me.
More importantly your knowledge and high quality production, along with your very nice personality make these a real treat. Not only that but a substantial historical and educational work. Thank you.
Great information! This is an awesome little series. Thanks Ian!
You said you were going to show the ammo but you never did.
I know right? it killed me lol I wanted to see how such ammo was loaded and extracted without an extractor grove or rim.
Peter Carlson Without an extractor, you can’t actually extract a cartridge without firing it. Blowback pistols with no extractor simply utilize chamber pressure to blow the case out and extract it.
I love my Bergmann No. 2! Thanks for the video!
Excellent video Ian, Big longtime fan of you'r videos. Keep it up bud :)
Thank you, Anonymous Collector!
Thanks to the lender for letting us see the pistols
Gongrats ["Forgotten Weapons"] for 5.000+ videos !!!
The accoutrement appear quite nice. I imagine this pistol was relatively dear.
Good job Ian. Keep up the good work!
Thanks to the collector! 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
They look really neat & nifty. I wonder, could one use a modified .25 ACP case, for these?
Gorgeous guns
There is simply something strange about watching Ian do a video without the signature t-shirt.
Its a very beautiful pistol
The Bergmann 6.5mm. For when you feel a Volcanic round is just too powerful for you.
i am loving this series! These are very cool and I would love to collect a few one day :) or maybe make a reproduction
With those stats, that 5mm round was REALLY wimpy, ha. We are talking about being debatable when we call it lethal kind of wimpy.
Really the coolest-looking guns of all time IMO but .... that cartridge?? Why...?!
Very cool pistol! I'll take a fixed trigger with extractor and short barrel with the optional fitted holster,please.
Any chance you will be covering the Bergmann MG 15nA as part of this series of videos or will it be limited to the Bergmann handguns? Unlikely I know but never hurts to ask!
Thanks for all the great content, have learnt so much from these videos. Keep up the good work :)
Not in the series. If/when I get my hands on an example, I will do a video.
Forgotten Weapons May fate drop one in your lap soon then! Thanks for the response
great vids Ian i dig these pistols
I'm a huge fan of the channel and I've recently become interest in the Finnish L-35 and Swedish M40 pistols. Is there any hope on seeing a video on either of these in the near future?
it's for shooting flies indoors. You can kill the flies without damaging your house.
I was just watching this on Full30 when I got the alert.
This is the Way.
Were there no British proof marks on the Westley Richards example? And who else thought of The Princess Bride?:)
That's a very pretty gun.
I do like the series. Thanks for the videos. If I was in battle I would prefer a sharp stick. It is a BB Gun.
Thanks Ian. Great as always.
Another great video, keep them coming
I was hoping to get a peek at that proprietary 5mm ammo.. be nice to have a comparison to a .22lr or a .22 short with regards to dimensions
www.forgottenweapons.com/early-automatic-pistols/bergmann-no-2-1896/
entire casing is tapered and not necked.. interesting design concept thank you for the link
That is the absolute wimpiest round I have ever heard of. .455 Webley MKII is looking at that and saying "I say, that is pathetic."
Ok a trivia question, is the pistol used by Patrick Wayne in the movie Big Jake a Bergmann?
That pistol is a P38 made to look like a Bergmann by the props department.
Must have missed the part where you showed the rimless ammo you said you were going to, about where in video did you do that. And did you ever work for Stoeger Arms in New Jersey???thanks. you clear up a lot of miss information out there and keep me sane in my retirement. ...
Random place to ask for it but I hope someday you get up Polo shirts with the Forgotten weapons logo!
no one uses metric when talking about projectile wieght and velocity even distance is widley messured in yards when talking about firarms.
A little rewatch.
The mando is a big fan of these I hear
Do a video on the Australian EF88 Austeyr.
In 1956 I got a Sheridan pellet rifle .20 caliber or 5mm a it shot faster and harder than this I still own that air rifle she's a dinosaur compared to some of my newer ones but I still love that old Walnut stocked girl.
Are we ever going to see any more muzzle loaders?
Eventually, yes.
Forgotten Weapons then may god send you a baker rifle, or anything with interesting history
Enjoy your videos!!!
Stripper clip? I thought the monkey tail was a Mannlicher type from the Model 1 video - did I get that wrong?
So strange looking. I'm guessing because inventors didn't know what an auto-loading pistol looked like and just wanted its functions to function.
611 gauge is the coolest designation ever. I wonder how many 'pellets' of lead dust that is.
I could be wrong but those guns appear to lack magazines. I kind of think Bergman should have gone with an already existing rimfire round like the .22 short. The unique ammo combined with often missing magazines suggests one reason the company failed. They do look cool.
The magazine is internal, just forward of the trigger. If you watch the previous video he goes more in-depth how the magazine works. The mechanism is the same going forward for pretty much all of the Bergmann pistols and is similar to some rifle designs of the period.
Only it’s creator found it pretty!
I'm trying to remember which model was used by Patrick Wayne in Big Jake...
Rather wimpy cartridge it seems.
AW MAN....you said you'd show the ammo. You tease :P Next time?
IIRC, it's in the video on the No.3 . Sorry.
Have you seen Steve1989 MREinfo? I think his love old military rations would meld well with some of the gun reviews you do.
had this model been chambered for a more traditional caliber round, this might have had a better chance seeing some military use.
Not a whole lot of "traditional" automatic pistol calibers to choose from in 1896...
in the movie big jake there was a gun used that was said to be a bergmann 1911 protype ,it had a mag in the grip ,was it real or a prop
It was a prop made from a P38.
They're pocket pistols, but what's the overall length or barrel length? I would have really liked to see that little cartridge lol. Awesome video, as always.
Would it be possible to do a video on the Lanchester sub machine gun please?
you never showed us the loaded stripper clip and bullets ian
Designed to annoy your target . . .
Folding trigger bullpup pistol.
12:07 wouldn’t they be en bloc clips since they stay in the gun?
thats pettet gun speeds. you can actually see the flight at that rate.
Any possible way that you could shoot one of these examples?
I wonder if anyone snub nosed it, makes sense if its a pocket pistol
I love how you pointed out that it is less powerful than a 22 short. Do you think this could kill a man? 500fps is just faster than an airsoft gun, would it even penitrating skin?
You forgot to show us the ammunition and clip!
I don't know about you, but I would love to shoot a repro of this design.
You could match the speed of that bullet with a twin engine Cessna :D
I have a question, not to the video but to the mauser broomhandle.Lets say you have the fastest trigger finger in the world. Would it be possible to reach the fire rate of a m712 with a c96?
In theory, sure.
Yo Chocolate game balancing does not make sense.
Kusagari Blues Be sure to mention to Ian that he should take down the videos in wich he talks about going to dice to help them on the game, or the review he did about the game or the couple videos in wich he mentiones the game. I like to think everyone is welcome here and if a game helps to get people interested about Forgotten Weapons that would be a good thing.
Your comment wasn't cringy, Kusagari is just being an ass hole for no real reason other than to hear himself talk.
It was a perfectly logical observation. Yo Chocolate saw a low rpm on something that should have been higher in real life. If I remember right the m712 was close to 1000 rpm. Seven hundred rpm is a pretty big difference.
Just because you don't like BF1 doesn't make his question or comment cringy. Then again, I guess some would say that getting your name from a video game sound track was pretty cringy.