I like how Ben Sisko was like, "Yeah, a small vehicle with the firepower of a Galaxy class!", then years later found an empire who were like, "Yeah, that's the backbone of our fleet. We see you have a handful. How quaint."
For a bit of translation here I believe you mean when Sisko was helping design the Defiant class initially and then years later discovered the Dominion had a whole bunch of small powerful ships but you cannot compare one of those to a Defiant.
@RurouniKalainGaming Yeah you can. Defiant class escorts are highly armed with a small profile. They're designed to operate in hunting packs to defeat larger foes, specifically Borg cubes, though their maneuverability and armament make them excellent heavy fighters, relative to other Federation classes. They're an amazing comparison to each other, only Defiant class escorts have Federation shields and ablative armor, because the Federation values the lives of its officers.
@TheAsvarduilProject there is also a big difference between jemhadar and starlet manning those respected ships....jemhadar were glorified kamikaze fighters Starlet crews were best summed up by Obrien. .....I am miles Obrien and I am very much alive and plan to stay that way......the mentalities were dramatically different
@michaelcunniff6108 The difference you've cited between the philosophy on personnel does exist and factors into the exact shipbuilding techniques and technologies. That much is true. However, nothing you've said has actually negated the fact that Defiant escorts and Jem'Hadar Fighters serve the same purpose: hunt down a dangerous foe in packs and overwhelm them with superior firepower. Even if the philosophy is different, the ships share a comparable role and tactics. That is literally all I have ever said. You're bringing philosophy into a discussion about the role different types of starship achieve for their fleets for emotional reasons. It seems important to you that "no, they're different!" However, that's not what the facts of these two ship classes indicate. They are very comparable.
Weyoun: "Such delightful people." O'Brien: "I am Chief Miles Edward O'Brien. I am very much alive, and I intend to stay that way." Sisko: "Amen! Let's get it done!"
A statement that would have much more of an impact if Jem'Hadar had actual lives outside of battle. But they don't eat, don't drink, don't fuck, and they don't do anything for fun. That's not living. That's merely existing.
What I also loved about this ship is that it was a solid foundation to create the Dominions whole military doctrine around. The Jemhadar ships and soldiers alike were the peak of cost-effectiveness. Name one other power who can churn out so many ships and soldiers to consider them expendable, but still pack it with enough guns and shields to become a serious threat, especially in numbers. And the way to have a ship with this kind of cost-effectiveness is being on the smaller side, having high tolerances to allow for crude construction and still maintain high operational reliability, prioritizing speed and firepower over protection, and have it fulfill practically every role your navy needs with no or only minimal changes to the configuration. The only thing you cant do with a design like that is the stuff you simply need heavier ships like battlecruisers for, like busting up heavily fortified space stations or running command and control for large fleet operations, but for those purposes you only need a pretty small number of larger ships to supplement your smaller ones, so economically it still works out. And in the other corner we have Starfleet, where every ship is its own tinkering project, overbuilt with way too many features like saucer separation, complicated deflector dishes that can do every single MacGuffin beam you could want, holodecks, all kinds of amenities, and they still can completely incapacitate themselves because the cook decided to make his own cheese.
@@nunya3163 Actually it describes the T-34 tank. I get why youd go to the Sherman, but the T-34 was truly the king of being crudely constructed, cramped as fuck on the inside, but you can absolutely slam it around and it keeps ticking. Sherman is pretty well made and the crew positions are quite spacious. Also the T-34 had its debut in 1940 and became a serious issue in 41, the Sherman had its first combat in 42, but only became a serious problem for the Germans in 44 after the western allies landed in France. So despite the tanks performing very similarly on paper, the T-34 got a fearsome reputation, as German AT guns at the time seriously struggled against it, some even being entirely ineffective, while the Sherman became target practice, because in 44 most German guns had become big enough to take a Sherman (or T-34) on without much difficulty.
I feel like post Dominion War these would have been everywhere. The market would be flooded with surplus, captured or discarded Attack Ships. It would be like the Steam Summer Sale for rogue states, pirates and the like.
If so, the Ferengi should really be on the lookout. Both for their own defence, in case those rogues, pirates, etc get a hold of them and attack Ferengi commercial ships, but also for the opposite reason, to buy a lot of those with the intent to snag them away from those aforementioned rogues and pirates, to increase the price so that they cannot afford to acquire them. And lastly, perhaps as escorts. I love the Ferengi Marauder design and I also think it has very subtle buglike qualities. However, the Ferengi have to protect their own trade interests. So either they have to buy up as much of those Jem'Hadar surplus sales as possible to scrap and scalp for their own Ferengi Marauders or alternatively, use both classes of ships in tandem as small escort fleets for freighter missions. In that respect, the Marauder has bigger storage space, but the Jem'Hadar fighter has the advantage of not needing to take out any of the seating. There is no seating. I guess the Ferengi commerce authority will provide foldable camping chairs at a discount to the crew members.
@@swiftchangeable Weyoun: "The Founder will not like this at all." Demar: "I'm sure she'll understand, and if she doesn't, I look forward to meeting Weyoun 9." Honestly that's the one thing that threw me about the Hur'q arc of STO. Weyoun's last clone died on Bajor, so what justification did they give for bringing him back in STO?
I sometimes wonder how the war would have gone if Gul Dukat was given total control over the dominion fleet He didn't even blink when the federation adapted their shields to block polaron beams.
He realized the federation would always adapt so I see him being one that would go for a quick devastating blow. Likely avoiding a long drawn out battle. He understood the complexity of each power involved where as the dominion was simply we will win sooner or later to hell with any other major strategy lol.
@@LMG1792 Maybe that's why he's always been so hung up on Bajor. I'm guessing he was made Prefect to clear out the remaining Bajoran resistance, but didn't understand the difference between fighting a state military and a decentralized civilian resistance who are afraid to use terrorist tactics.
@LMG1792 He had previous experience facing the Federation and knew that particularly Humans had the strength of adaptation and innovation, and were annoyingly good at "out of the box" solutions that took you by suprise. That even took the Borg by suprise. And that they took a while to switch to a war footing from their standard friendly non threatening stance. If the Dominion had instead just launched a massive suprise attack with thousands of ships flooding out of the wormhole and heading straight for Earth in a knock out blow, the Dominion would have won. But instead they awoke a sleeping Dragon. The Dominion could win a straight war of attrition _if it had stayed a straight war of attrition._ But they didn't expect left field solutions from the Federation. Dukat knew better.
@@casbot71 One notes the success of the Dominion in the War is correlated with strong Cardassian leadership. Dukat had that thing one, an act of Gods stopped him. Damar was running the day-to-day, and was slowly advancing until the Romulans entered the War and even then he mostly stalemated the alliance. Once Founder begins running things, other than the brief Breen period of technological superiority, the Dominion is quickly on its back because she completely misreads the Coalition's resolve. I think it boils down to both the Cardassians simply understanding their Alpha/Beta Quadrant brethren better, and the talent of Dukat, who was, let's face, quite brilliant and Damar who was quietly extremely competent from his first appearance. In fact, Dukat wins the War if he just listens to Damar on several counts.
When i did the jemhadar tutorial and i used this ship i couldnt find it more funny and balanced. Its amazing how maneuverable is and how offensive and defensive it is at the same time.
What is surprising is that the Dominion never incorporated Cloaking technology into the Fighter. They weren't against cloaking as a concept since _the Jem'Hidar soldiers themselves could cloak._ And they had gotten hold of cloaked ships, so they could reverse engineer the tech (and they gave back the Defiant early on!!). Cloaked Jem'Hidar ships would have been a force multiplier for the Dominion. Yes Starfleet had some counters to Cloaks, but they still reduced detection range to close range and made targeting difficult. A terrifying tactic would have been for cloaked Jem'Hidar fighters to ram larger ships and stations in suprise kamikaze attacks. The lack of shields while cloaked was irrelevant if the damage was kinetic backed up by a warp core and its antimatter exploding. And especially if the target didn't have its own shields up. Or just beam boarding parties from a bunch of cloaked ships straight onto the bridge of an enemy vessel that is not at alert.
While the show never goes much into the technical aspects one assumes cloaking is a bitch and a half to operate. Higher maintenance cycles, higher costs, longer refits and prone to be rendered useless when the enemy develops a new sensor. Plus For an empire that keeps the Gamma quadrant in line through fear and intimidation cloaking is counter productive.
One thing I’ve always wondered is why don’t federation ships keep their shields on 24/7? I know the deflector works for like space debris but I’m assuming you’d want shields no matter what, even if you’re meeting up with friends. I’m sure it’s explained in lore by some sort of power drain but that’s a major disadvantage. Shields can protect against radiation and other situations that deflectors couldn’t handle.
The Jem'Hadar fighter is one of my favorites! Tough lil sucker, and I love how initially their weapons just slice through Starfleet shields like they're not even there. Was surprised when I first learned how slow they are, given the Dominion's advanced technology in so many other fields, I would have expected them to be at LEAST on par with, if not faster than UFP vessels, maybe even having transwarp like capabilities. But I also understand the writers gotta balance them out somehow, but in my own imagination they're OP AF hahaha
I know you mentioned their transporters but I think? You forgot to mention that they where able to transport over long distances, like several light years. Major Kira Nerys being transported from Deep space nine to empok nor.
The silliest bit about this ship is in “Treachery, Faith and the Great River”, when Weyoun shows Odo how to destroy an attack ship with only a few phaser shots in a runabout of all things. It was never mentioned again, and clearly wasn’t already known from Sisko’s captured ship!
@@Zyklon_B_still_and_know_God Absoluetly, I love the title too… “Treachery” for Weyoun leaving the Dominion, Nog going behind O’Brien’s back and Damar and other Weyoun trying to kill Odo. “Faith” for Nog and the great material continuum, and Weyoun to Odo. “Great River” for the material continuum being like a river and ‘great river’ in Spanish being ‘Rio Grande’, the name of Odo’s runabout.
Not that big of a stretch. They only had one ship for a short time. It takes years to actually take a ship apart and reverse engineer everything. One of the many reasons former German and Japanese ships were used for nuclear testing. Too costly and time consuming for an enemy that no longer exists. And the "weak point" has several possibilities. I always assumed it was a good weak point for a runabout, but larger ships found even better vulnerabilities. Or, the Dominion found the debris, knew Weyoun was involved, put two and two together and fixed the vulnerability. Or, just because it popped in my head, it could have been an older ship they engaged and the vulnerability was already fixed on newer build ships.
A ship combining quantity and quality crewed by genetically engineered warriors bred in hatcheries that were fanatical and disposable. Perfect combination for an empire like the Dominion.
During the Dominion war every Alpha power learnt the lesson of the Attack Ship, and developed their own - except the Klingons, who already had the excellent if old Bird of Prey. And then by the time of the Picard Series Starfleet had apparently completely forgotten that lesson and gone back to large capital ships, even for their front line combat ships - the Inquiry Class. But then Starfleet also thought it was a good idea to network their entire fleet with reverse engineered Borg tech ... twice.
And STO's rex looks even more like a scarab. Put the 8472 shield on in, and you get a little picture of a kitty on the hull. Making the "Egyptian" theme even more prominent.
Hey Rick, you may want to Ammend that by first rewatching the episode where Quark and a Karemma trader were aboard the Defiant in the Gamma Quadrant and trying to evade Dominion Patrols in the Atmosphere of a gas giant. A Dominion Torpedo got lodged into the hull of the Defiant without detonating and it was a Karemma designed Chroniton Torpedo. Seeing that the patrol ships the Defiant was trying to evade in the Gas Giant were Dominion "Fighters" it speaks to reason to assume all Dominion Torpedoes are Chroniton Torpedoes.
It's a shame we never saw the Dominion get into a fight with the Borg or Species 8472, would have been very interesting. I've always referred to these ships as "scarabs" in my head, i've always liked the Dominion designs.
Me too. Scarabs or Bug Ships when you don't feel like being eloquent about it. That was even more ingrained in my head after the Mummy showed up with the blue gold flesh eating scarabs.
🖖😎👍Very cool and very greatly nicely well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided by you on the Jem'Hadar Fighters, And of their major weapons and fire power and on their armor plating and shielding power and warp capabilities during battle and so forth, And on all the various other duties and missions required of them as well; A job very fabulously well done by you indeed Sir!👌.
I believe that the use of Quantum torpedos is in fact cannon. In the DS9 episode "Starship Down", Quark and a Karenam diplomat are stuck in a conference room, that had a Jem'Hadar torpedo embedded in the Hull. Quark and the Karenam had to diffuse the torpedo in order to save the ship. I believe that Quark refered to it is a Quantum torpedo. But I an not 100% certain.
I always wished that they wouldn't have cut out Shields from the show as much I get what I had to do to constraints and a whole bunch of high pressure battle scenarios because if they all had proper shooting like we normally see then a bunch of those fights would have taken a heck of a lot longer, but it would have been nice cuz that way we could have actually seen the Jem'Hadar have shields in action. As is, it looks like they really ever had any in the show.
"Attack ship" is boring, but probably the most accurate. You could call them frigates or destroyers, or I suppose, but neither term is really accurate.
To me it looks like more like the Torpedo Boats of the past, which could damage and with luck sink even battleships and were deemed so dangerous that an entire new class of ships was developed. The 'Torpedo Boat Destroyer', which was so effective that Torpedo Boats were no longer viable against big ships. The Torpedo Boat Destroyer has been updated and renamed into the Destroyers we have today. Torpedo Boat Destroyers were fast enough to intercept Torpedo Boats on an attack run and armed well enough to easily rip the smaller and faster ships to shreds. At least that's what I know about the concepts as not even an amateur historian, so I could be wrong. Still, it would have been interesting to see that on screen.
One small query; Why did this ship have windows? As seen at 0:55... I mean, I'm guessing that all those white dots and oblong shapes are windows, like on other starships. But, if the Founders don't have such luxuries on their ships (like chairs) or even have a view screen (just little eyepiece for the primary) on the bridge, then why put windows on the ship?
The only thing I can think of is for literal visual inspection in the case of power failure or something. But I had the same thought as lore specified no windows on the bridge ore sensitive areas.
@@3Rayfire I distinctly remember the Romulan screaming that main power was offline, and the shields had collapsed. Right on cue, Jem'Hadar started beaming on board.
Not quite During the first engagement, Dominion could penetrate Federation shields but as the war progress as well Sisko capturing an intact Dominion ship the federation had developed a countermease
The Dominion designed this ship as a standard fighting and patrol vehicle. Given the trouble even the highly advanced Federation had with this small ship, we can assume that most Alpha-, Beta- and Gamma Quadrant species couldn't cope up with it. This was its biggest advantage and flaw alike. These ships were not really designed for prolonged war, but for quick and swift strikes. I tend to believe this ship was never actually used in a war, as the Dominion very likely never had to go to full scale war. Therefore bigger ships were fewer in numbers, as usually a squad of "Bugships" is enough to strike fear into the heart of the enemies. Also the Dominion is shown to rather avoid war by infiltration or utilizing their advanced knowledge in bioweapons. Just one Founder would be enough, to eradicate an entire planet. When they encountered the Alpha Quadrant species, it was clear these people are much more advanced than the ordinary species they have encountered and therefore way more reluctant to submit to the Dominion. Especially after the Federation had shown to be able to counter Dominion weapons- and transporter technology, they increased development and construction of bigger, more capable vessels. That's likely why we see very few bigger Dominion ships at the start of the war and are introduced to the Dominion battleship more than a year into the war. Especially at the begnning of the war, before the introduction of the Anti-Borg-Fleet ships on a full scale, a squad of attack ships was still more than capable of destroying a much bigger Starfleet ship. Even at the cost of losing one, two or all three. We also see this approach reflected in Cardassian strategy in "Sacrifice of Angels" where a huge chunk of the Fleet are smaller Hideki class ships, only backed up by a smaller number of bigger ships. In the end this ship wasn't important because it was particularly powerful or advanced, but because it was easy and cheap to produce.
I wonder if the powers in the mirror universe every figured out how the wormhole that Kira and Bashir arrived and vanished from and seen the Mirror Dominion.
I think the Romulan Warbird is more of a Glass Cannon. The Jem'Hadar were just anti-shield with weapons and teleporters that could go though them which the federation relied upon way too much.
Have you done a video on how so many alien cultures in the different quadrants of space mostly use warp travel technology? How is it that the Dominion of the Gamma Quadrant also has ships that travel via subspace using warp nacelles?
That ship seems to have a lot of windows for such a small ship, especially as they don't have a big crew compliment. The ships don't even use a view screen, why would the Jem'Hadar even need them?
And thats what the Borg need to assimilate. Get them some Jem'Hadar and Vorta in their mix and expand their tactics and tech. Then we could see little Borg Pyramid shaped fighters maybe? But if they had the Jem'Hadar tech to make Super Solders, Boimler will not have time to save those borg babies.
Wow, with the insectoid inspiration, I'm half surprised the thing didn't have gigantic, fully functional robotic insect legs. Imagine one of these things with such equipment literally walking around a planet surface or on an asteroid? That would have been terrifying!
Weird decision the ramming of the Galaxy class because it was presented as a Kamikaze run. The reason this makes little sense is because if it was an accepted tactic the Dominion would design ships like the Imperium in 40K with reinforced structures and rams on them, just as we saw in antiquity, which would be far more effective. It might have looked cool but it was inconsistent with the show's internal logic.
Calling the Attack Ships "fighters" is the same as calling the Defiant a "fighter". The pack tactics they use are the same as the plan to use Defiant wings against the Borg.
The disposable nature always annoyed me. It mean it kind of makes sense when you have nearly an etire quadrant under control. But once that mine field went up the destruction of each ship would be a serious blow to logistics. Particularly with how small the Cardassian space was. It is just a waste of resources at a point when wasting resources would just lead to a slow bleed and ultimate loss.
That was one of the reasons why the Dominion lost the advantage that they had early in the war. The Federation, Klingons and Romulans all quickly developed tactics to counter the Jem'hadar fleet, including aggressive use of their own (smaller) fighters, and smaller ships, like the Mirandas, Defiants and bird-of-preys as screens for the larger ships. The Jem'hadar struggled to adapt their own tactics throughout the war, as they were much less creative than their enemies.
@@Cailus3542 The Dominion more than made up for it's lack of creativity with the sheer aggressiveness and genetically-engineered fanaticism of it's Jem'Hadar warriors...😐
I never understood why any of the big model making companies never offered this as a kit to build. Hell the Kazon torpedo ship only appears in one episode of Voyager and Monogram said sure let's make that kit, but the Jem'Hadar fighter is in a few seasons of episodes and we get nothing. Make that make sense.
Wasn’t it a lone Klingon bird of prey chief engineer able to on the fly adapt shields or because of a warp core imbalance gave their shields immunity? This little event was what gave the alpha quadrant the ability to adapt shields?
Think about how minimal you need as far as comforts for the crew when its Jew Hadar in most of them. When all you need to do is have it be able to move fast and have weapons and basic shields. IT has to be super cost effective to make things like this. And the ship itself is a weapon cause the crew has zero self preservation by design.
2,450 metric tonnes, not tons. Pedantic, I realise, but an important distinction. Ton is an Imperial measure equal to 2,240lbs. Tonne is a metric measure equal to 1,000kg.
Oh wow the flickering of the model's surface... I assume this is taken from a game and not a model made for this video? I had the same issue when making my first blender models for a game was writing just for fun (and never finished). But I was an amateur and quickly noticed what was wrong with the mapping. That commercial games are shipped with bugs like these is a a bit embarrassing. :')
I thought they used plasma torpedoes. I think that's what the guy said in the episode where a torpedo gets stuck inside the Defiant and Quark and the guy who sold the torpedo to the Dominion have to defuse it. Spoiler Alert: turns out it's a dud and the guy says he should offer them a refund.
Two typos and a misspelling in the infographic -- things are back to normal. I guess this guy was on vacation for the past few videos, and someone with access to a spell-checker subbed in. "SHEILDING," "TOOPS," and "DISSIPATER".
I like how Ben Sisko was like, "Yeah, a small vehicle with the firepower of a Galaxy class!", then years later found an empire who were like, "Yeah, that's the backbone of our fleet. We see you have a handful. How quaint."
For a bit of translation here I believe you mean when Sisko was helping design the Defiant class initially and then years later discovered the Dominion had a whole bunch of small powerful ships but you cannot compare one of those to a Defiant.
@@RurouniKalainGaming why?
@RurouniKalainGaming Yeah you can. Defiant class escorts are highly armed with a small profile. They're designed to operate in hunting packs to defeat larger foes, specifically Borg cubes, though their maneuverability and armament make them excellent heavy fighters, relative to other Federation classes.
They're an amazing comparison to each other, only Defiant class escorts have Federation shields and ablative armor, because the Federation values the lives of its officers.
@TheAsvarduilProject there is also a big difference between jemhadar and starlet manning those respected ships....jemhadar were glorified kamikaze fighters
Starlet crews were best summed up by Obrien. .....I am miles Obrien and I am very much alive and plan to stay that way......the mentalities were dramatically different
@michaelcunniff6108 The difference you've cited between the philosophy on personnel does exist and factors into the exact shipbuilding techniques and technologies. That much is true.
However, nothing you've said has actually negated the fact that Defiant escorts and Jem'Hadar Fighters serve the same purpose: hunt down a dangerous foe in packs and overwhelm them with superior firepower.
Even if the philosophy is different, the ships share a comparable role and tactics. That is literally all I have ever said. You're bringing philosophy into a discussion about the role different types of starship achieve for their fleets for emotional reasons.
It seems important to you that "no, they're different!" However, that's not what the facts of these two ship classes indicate. They are very comparable.
The ship is an analogy of the Jem'hadr themselves high capabilities and quick to build but ultimately disposable
A lot like the Japanese Zero
@@midniteoyl8913 Nothing at all like the Zero.
@@midniteoyl8913 I wouldn't say the Zero was disposable despite its construction and flaws with its guns. Infact, it was well made for its time.
As of this moment, we are all dead. We go into battle to reclaim our lives. This we do gladly, for we are Jem'Hadar. Remember: VICTORY IS LIFE!!
Victory is life!
Weyoun: "Such delightful people."
O'Brien: "I am Chief Miles Edward O'Brien. I am very much alive, and I intend to stay that way."
Sisko: "Amen! Let's get it done!"
A statement that would have much more of an impact if Jem'Hadar had actual lives outside of battle. But they don't eat, don't drink, don't fuck, and they don't do anything for fun. That's not living. That's merely existing.
I am Miles Edward O'brien 😅
VICTORY IS LIFE!!
What I also loved about this ship is that it was a solid foundation to create the Dominions whole military doctrine around. The Jemhadar ships and soldiers alike were the peak of cost-effectiveness. Name one other power who can churn out so many ships and soldiers to consider them expendable, but still pack it with enough guns and shields to become a serious threat, especially in numbers.
And the way to have a ship with this kind of cost-effectiveness is being on the smaller side, having high tolerances to allow for crude construction and still maintain high operational reliability, prioritizing speed and firepower over protection, and have it fulfill practically every role your navy needs with no or only minimal changes to the configuration. The only thing you cant do with a design like that is the stuff you simply need heavier ships like battlecruisers for, like busting up heavily fortified space stations or running command and control for large fleet operations, but for those purposes you only need a pretty small number of larger ships to supplement your smaller ones, so economically it still works out.
And in the other corner we have Starfleet, where every ship is its own tinkering project, overbuilt with way too many features like saucer separation, complicated deflector dishes that can do every single MacGuffin beam you could want, holodecks, all kinds of amenities, and they still can completely incapacitate themselves because the cook decided to make his own cheese.
Those pesky gel-packs
You literally just described the Sherman tank.
@@nunya3163 Actually it describes the T-34 tank. I get why youd go to the Sherman, but the T-34 was truly the king of being crudely constructed, cramped as fuck on the inside, but you can absolutely slam it around and it keeps ticking.
Sherman is pretty well made and the crew positions are quite spacious. Also the T-34 had its debut in 1940 and became a serious issue in 41, the Sherman had its first combat in 42, but only became a serious problem for the Germans in 44 after the western allies landed in France. So despite the tanks performing very similarly on paper, the T-34 got a fearsome reputation, as German AT guns at the time seriously struggled against it, some even being entirely ineffective, while the Sherman became target practice, because in 44 most German guns had become big enough to take a Sherman (or T-34) on without much difficulty.
Hey, that was some good cheese though
I feel like post Dominion War these would have been everywhere. The market would be flooded with surplus, captured or discarded Attack Ships. It would be like the Steam Summer Sale for rogue states, pirates and the like.
If so, the Ferengi should really be on the lookout. Both for their own defence, in case those rogues, pirates, etc get a hold of them and attack Ferengi commercial ships, but also for the opposite reason, to buy a lot of those with the intent to snag them away from those aforementioned rogues and pirates, to increase the price so that they cannot afford to acquire them. And lastly, perhaps as escorts. I love the Ferengi Marauder design and I also think it has very subtle buglike qualities. However, the Ferengi have to protect their own trade interests. So either they have to buy up as much of those Jem'Hadar surplus sales as possible to scrap and scalp for their own Ferengi Marauders or alternatively, use both classes of ships in tandem as small escort fleets for freighter missions.
In that respect, the Marauder has bigger storage space, but the Jem'Hadar fighter has the advantage of not needing to take out any of the seating. There is no seating. I guess the Ferengi commerce authority will provide foldable camping chairs at a discount to the crew members.
One of the best and most iconic Star Trek starship designs
The Dominion's lore was very flexible during the run of DS9. A lot changed as time went on. Then settling down to what it finally became.
My favorite is making the Vorta clones purely because they realized vaporizing Weyoun was a huge mistake
@@BlazingOwnager A win-win because it meant that they could kill Weyoun in increasingly hilarious ways as the show continued.
@@swiftchangeable
"Maybe you should talk to Worf again.😂"
@@swiftchangeable Weyoun: "The Founder will not like this at all." Demar: "I'm sure she'll understand, and if she doesn't, I look forward to meeting Weyoun 9."
Honestly that's the one thing that threw me about the Hur'q arc of STO. Weyoun's last clone died on Bajor, so what justification did they give for bringing him back in STO?
@@Wingnut00-zero "Weyoun 7 was a great man!"
I sometimes wonder how the war would have gone if Gul Dukat was given total control over the dominion fleet He didn't even blink when the federation adapted their shields to block polaron beams.
He realized the federation would always adapt so I see him being one that would go for a quick devastating blow. Likely avoiding a long drawn out battle. He understood the complexity of each power involved where as the dominion was simply we will win sooner or later to hell with any other major strategy lol.
@@LMG1792 Maybe that's why he's always been so hung up on Bajor. I'm guessing he was made Prefect to clear out the remaining Bajoran resistance, but didn't understand the difference between fighting a state military and a decentralized civilian resistance who are afraid to use terrorist tactics.
@LMG1792 He had previous experience facing the Federation and knew that particularly Humans had the strength of adaptation and innovation, and were annoyingly good at "out of the box" solutions that took you by suprise.
That even took the Borg by suprise.
And that they took a while to switch to a war footing from their standard friendly non threatening stance.
If the Dominion had instead just launched a massive suprise attack with thousands of ships flooding out of the wormhole and heading straight for Earth in a knock out blow, the Dominion would have won.
But instead they awoke a sleeping Dragon.
The Dominion could win a straight war of attrition _if it had stayed a straight war of attrition._ But they didn't expect left field solutions from the Federation.
Dukat knew better.
@@casbot71 One notes the success of the Dominion in the War is correlated with strong Cardassian leadership. Dukat had that thing one, an act of Gods stopped him. Damar was running the day-to-day, and was slowly advancing until the Romulans entered the War and even then he mostly stalemated the alliance. Once Founder begins running things, other than the brief Breen period of technological superiority, the Dominion is quickly on its back because she completely misreads the Coalition's resolve. I think it boils down to both the Cardassians simply understanding their Alpha/Beta Quadrant brethren better, and the talent of Dukat, who was, let's face, quite brilliant and Damar who was quietly extremely competent from his first appearance. In fact, Dukat wins the War if he just listens to Damar on several counts.
When i did the jemhadar tutorial and i used this ship i couldnt find it more funny and balanced.
Its amazing how maneuverable is and how offensive and defensive it is at the same time.
What is surprising is that the Dominion never incorporated Cloaking technology into the Fighter.
They weren't against cloaking as a concept since _the Jem'Hidar soldiers themselves could cloak._
And they had gotten hold of cloaked ships, so they could reverse engineer the tech (and they gave back the Defiant early on!!).
Cloaked Jem'Hidar ships would have been a force multiplier for the Dominion.
Yes Starfleet had some counters to Cloaks, but they still reduced detection range to close range and made targeting difficult.
A terrifying tactic would have been for cloaked Jem'Hidar fighters to ram larger ships and stations in suprise kamikaze attacks. The lack of shields while cloaked was irrelevant if the damage was kinetic backed up by a warp core and its antimatter exploding.
And especially if the target didn't have its own shields up.
Or just beam boarding parties from a bunch of cloaked ships straight onto the bridge of an enemy vessel that is not at alert.
While the show never goes much into the technical aspects one assumes cloaking is a bitch and a half to operate. Higher maintenance cycles, higher costs, longer refits and prone to be rendered useless when the enemy develops a new sensor. Plus For an empire that keeps the Gamma quadrant in line through fear and intimidation cloaking is counter productive.
One thing I’ve always wondered is why don’t federation ships keep their shields on 24/7? I know the deflector works for like space debris but I’m assuming you’d want shields no matter what, even if you’re meeting up with friends. I’m sure it’s explained in lore by some sort of power drain but that’s a major disadvantage. Shields can protect against radiation and other situations that deflectors couldn’t handle.
For me they always looked like giant ticks.
In fact, the Iratus Bug from Stargate Atlantis seems somewhat similar to me.
They always reminded me of bedbugs, that's why I personally refer to them as Dominion "Chirex" class warships...🤓
The Jem'Hadar fighter is one of my favorites! Tough lil sucker, and I love how initially their weapons just slice through Starfleet shields like they're not even there.
Was surprised when I first learned how slow they are, given the Dominion's advanced technology in so many other fields, I would have expected them to be at LEAST on par with, if not faster than UFP vessels, maybe even having transwarp like capabilities. But I also understand the writers gotta balance them out somehow, but in my own imagination they're OP AF hahaha
I know you mentioned their transporters but I think? You forgot to mention that they where able to transport over long distances, like several light years. Major Kira Nerys being transported from Deep space nine to empok nor.
I was going to point that out as well till i saw your comment about it.
The silliest bit about this ship is in “Treachery, Faith and the Great River”, when Weyoun shows Odo how to destroy an attack ship with only a few phaser shots in a runabout of all things. It was never mentioned again, and clearly wasn’t already known from Sisko’s captured ship!
Weyoun had a big mouth...
Yeah, it was an obvious plot contrivance that sort of annoyed me too
That was dumb, good episode though
@@Zyklon_B_still_and_know_God Absoluetly, I love the title too… “Treachery” for Weyoun leaving the Dominion, Nog going behind O’Brien’s back and Damar and other Weyoun trying to kill Odo. “Faith” for Nog and the great material continuum, and Weyoun to Odo. “Great River” for the material continuum being like a river and ‘great river’ in Spanish being ‘Rio Grande’, the name of Odo’s runabout.
Not that big of a stretch. They only had one ship for a short time. It takes years to actually take a ship apart and reverse engineer everything. One of the many reasons former German and Japanese ships were used for nuclear testing. Too costly and time consuming for an enemy that no longer exists.
And the "weak point" has several possibilities. I always assumed it was a good weak point for a runabout, but larger ships found even better vulnerabilities.
Or, the Dominion found the debris, knew Weyoun was involved, put two and two together and fixed the vulnerability.
Or, just because it popped in my head, it could have been an older ship they engaged and the vulnerability was already fixed on newer build ships.
A ship combining quantity and quality crewed by genetically engineered warriors bred in hatcheries that were fanatical and disposable. Perfect combination for an empire like the Dominion.
They're quite very impressive little ships.
Especially for one considered to be disposable.
So red and white are federation, one shade green for romulans, another shade green borg, reddish orange Klingon, and purple dominion
Cos the dominion are "bad mutherfuckers"...
Greenish Yellow Cardassian.
I think of Borg as black, but the do have green lights for television reasons.
Orange shade for Ferengi.
Red? Pretty sure the Federation is constantly covered in blue
Back when Star Trek had great designs instead if just being busy for the sake of being busy.
Such an awesome looking ship, one of my fav trek ships. Really reminds me of the original Cylon raider from the 1970s battlestar galactica
During the Dominion war every Alpha power learnt the lesson of the Attack Ship, and developed their own - except the Klingons, who already had the excellent if old Bird of Prey.
And then by the time of the Picard Series Starfleet had apparently completely forgotten that lesson and gone back to large capital ships, even for their front line combat ships - the Inquiry Class.
But then Starfleet also thought it was a good idea to network their entire fleet with reverse engineered Borg tech ... twice.
In other Star Trek games the Jem'hadar main torpedo was a Polaron based weapon as opposed to photon, plasma or gravimetric ones.
I remember the first time I watched deep space nine and seeing the Dominion for the first time and all that and I was very hooked on it and amazed en
And STO's rex looks even more like a scarab.
Put the 8472 shield on in, and you get a little picture of a kitty on the hull.
Making the "Egyptian" theme even more prominent.
I call it "Sekhmet"
I call mine Paket.
The purple symbol on the lower left of the tech readout looks like an alien Punisher emblem.
Fighting dirty...the image of 1 such bug ship doing a kamikaze run that sliced a Vorcha in half popped up. Fighting dirty was putting it lightly.
" A Glass Cannon "
Yes, But a Glass can cut you to pieces
Yes, but as a Last Resort.
Sure, but you tend to shatter it in the process
Hey Rick, you may want to Ammend that by first rewatching the episode where Quark and a Karemma trader were aboard the Defiant in the Gamma Quadrant and trying to evade Dominion Patrols in the Atmosphere of a gas giant.
A Dominion Torpedo got lodged into the hull of the Defiant without detonating and it was a Karemma designed Chroniton Torpedo. Seeing that the patrol ships the Defiant was trying to evade in the Gas Giant were Dominion "Fighters" it speaks to reason to assume all Dominion Torpedoes are Chroniton Torpedoes.
That explains why it didn't detonate on contact with the Defiant's hull. Chroniton torpedoes take their time...😉
@@charlestaylor253 You think they work on a temporal variance of 1.47 microseconds!?
Rick's voice, accent & speaking cadence is very enjoyable to listen to..
Really? The irregular cadence is like being in a room with a ticking clock that's sometimes a little fast, sometimes a little slow. It's maddening.
@@CantankerousDave then why do you watch?
Thank you Rick.
The Dominion definitely were a most ruthless & cunning enemy, they really had it all
They were soft needing the help of the cardassian and sissy breen
They were like the Anti-Federation
It's a shame we never saw the Dominion get into a fight with the Borg or Species 8472, would have been very interesting.
I've always referred to these ships as "scarabs" in my head, i've always liked the Dominion designs.
Me too. Scarabs or Bug Ships when you don't feel like being eloquent about it. That was even more ingrained in my head after the Mummy showed up with the blue gold flesh eating scarabs.
The Borg would have won same thing with 8472.
@TheGuardianofAzarath
Imagine fighting against assimilated Jem'Hadar troops ,
now that would be rough
I do think that The Dominion and The Covenant would get along nicely 😂 💀
The Jem’Hadar and The Sanghelli would become best friends. The Sanghelli would also be best friends with Klingons too though.
Victory is life
The scale of these ships is an interesting topic because of the crashed upside down fighter we actually SEE onscreen in DS9.
Fun little ship
Little!?
“Obedience brings victory and victory is life “
I feel like sovereign, akira, galaxy, and defiant classes were all more than a match for one of those ships.
The Klingons were the first to have a defense against the Breen energy dissipators, so they are an additional power to withstand those attacks.
I would love to see the dominion go up against the borg
Straight away, desert bug inspiration.
I always thought the design of those fighters resembled more of a bed bug, and they were just as formidable
🖖😎👍Very cool and very greatly nicely well done and informatively explained and executed in every detail way shape and format provided by you on the Jem'Hadar Fighters, And of their major weapons and fire power and on their armor plating and shielding power and warp capabilities during battle and so forth, And on all the various other duties and missions required of them as well; A job very fabulously well done by you indeed Sir!👌.
I believe that the use of Quantum torpedos is in fact cannon. In the DS9 episode "Starship Down", Quark and a Karenam diplomat are stuck in a conference room, that had a Jem'Hadar torpedo embedded in the Hull. Quark and the Karenam had to diffuse the torpedo in order to save the ship. I believe that Quark refered to it is a Quantum torpedo. But I an not 100% certain.
Chronoton Torpedo
I always wished that they wouldn't have cut out Shields from the show as much I get what I had to do to constraints and a whole bunch of high pressure battle scenarios because if they all had proper shooting like we normally see then a bunch of those fights would have taken a heck of a lot longer, but it would have been nice cuz that way we could have actually seen the Jem'Hadar have shields in action. As is, it looks like they really ever had any in the show.
oooooh the old purple beetles . should be a good ep ^_^
Transporter systems were also more advanced than UFP in that they had huge range and could transport across light years.
I still maintain calling it a fighter was a bad idea as it didn't fit with the naval theming of the rest of the ships in star trek.
"Attack ship" is boring, but probably the most accurate. You could call them frigates or destroyers, or I suppose, but neither term is really accurate.
Agreed. Using naval terminology, they should've been referred to as Jem'Hadar corvettes...
😉
@@Cailus3542 Corvette, cutter, or light frigate would apply.
To me it looks like more like the Torpedo Boats of the past, which could damage and with luck sink even battleships and were deemed so dangerous that an entire new class of ships was developed. The 'Torpedo Boat Destroyer', which was so effective that Torpedo Boats were no longer viable against big ships. The Torpedo Boat Destroyer has been updated and renamed into the Destroyers we have today.
Torpedo Boat Destroyers were fast enough to intercept Torpedo Boats on an attack run and armed well enough to easily rip the smaller and faster ships to shreds.
At least that's what I know about the concepts as not even an amateur historian, so I could be wrong.
Still, it would have been interesting to see that on screen.
Well I mean, even though these aren't carried by an Aircraft Carrier, the Navy does use fighters.
He who obeys wins and victory is life!
Thanks
That was cool but I hope you’re gonna do the Dominion cruiser soon. I don’t you’ve done that yet. That thing’s magnificent.
One small query; Why did this ship have windows? As seen at 0:55...
I mean, I'm guessing that all those white dots and oblong shapes are windows, like on other starships. But, if the Founders don't have such luxuries on their ships (like chairs) or even have a view screen (just little eyepiece for the primary) on the bridge, then why put windows on the ship?
The only thing I can think of is for literal visual inspection in the case of power failure or something. But I had the same thought as lore specified no windows on the bridge ore sensitive areas.
This ship must have influenced the Munificent class in star wars... especially that half-saucer.
I love your voice. Never stop making videos. You do other properties right.
Morphed from a decent ship to canon fodder as the series progressed. A dominion tie fighter of sorts
Their weapons and transporters ignore Federation shields... except the Defiant's first combat engagement. Writers seemed to forget.
The Defiant came after that fact was established, if memory serves the Defiant survived due to her Ablative Armor, not shields.
@@3Rayfire I distinctly remember the Romulan screaming that main power was offline, and the shields had collapsed. Right on cue, Jem'Hadar started beaming on board.
Not quite
During the first engagement, Dominion could penetrate Federation shields but as the war progress as well Sisko capturing an intact Dominion ship
the federation had developed a countermease
No chairs, no view screens, no sandwiches. That's all you need to know about about the Jem'Hadar ships.
Not even any heads, apparently. For a human, (and especially Bolian), crew...🤢🤮
@@charlestaylor253 I don’t think humans in general need toilets… well, until it was retconned in First Contact.
The Dominion designed this ship as a standard fighting and patrol vehicle. Given the trouble even the highly advanced Federation had with this small ship, we can assume that most Alpha-, Beta- and Gamma Quadrant species couldn't cope up with it. This was its biggest advantage and flaw alike. These ships were not really designed for prolonged war, but for quick and swift strikes.
I tend to believe this ship was never actually used in a war, as the Dominion very likely never had to go to full scale war. Therefore bigger ships were fewer in numbers, as usually a squad of "Bugships" is enough to strike fear into the heart of the enemies. Also the Dominion is shown to rather avoid war by infiltration or utilizing their advanced knowledge in bioweapons. Just one Founder would be enough, to eradicate an entire planet.
When they encountered the Alpha Quadrant species, it was clear these people are much more advanced than the ordinary species they have encountered and therefore way more reluctant to submit to the Dominion. Especially after the Federation had shown to be able to counter Dominion weapons- and transporter technology, they increased development and construction of bigger, more capable vessels. That's likely why we see very few bigger Dominion ships at the start of the war and are introduced to the Dominion battleship more than a year into the war.
Especially at the begnning of the war, before the introduction of the Anti-Borg-Fleet ships on a full scale, a squad of attack ships was still more than capable of destroying a much bigger Starfleet ship. Even at the cost of losing one, two or all three. We also see this approach reflected in Cardassian strategy in "Sacrifice of Angels" where a huge chunk of the Fleet are smaller Hideki class ships, only backed up by a smaller number of bigger ships.
In the end this ship wasn't important because it was particularly powerful or advanced, but because it was easy and cheap to produce.
I wonder if the powers in the mirror universe every figured out how the wormhole that Kira and Bashir arrived and vanished from and seen the Mirror Dominion.
Thanks to that and the Defiant, we get the Rex Pilot Escort on STO. 😁
I've always thought of the ship more of a frigate than a fighter due to its size.
That ship came from an era when Star Trek was good, respected it's fans. I miss the good old days.
I think the Romulan Warbird is more of a Glass Cannon. The Jem'Hadar were just anti-shield with weapons and teleporters that could go though them which the federation relied upon way too much.
Right off the bat, a light in darkness.
I often thought these fighters were the same size as the Defiant
Have you done a video on how so many alien cultures in the different quadrants of space mostly use warp travel technology? How is it that the Dominion of the Gamma Quadrant also has ships that travel via subspace using warp nacelles?
Ah, Yes. the Bug Ship. a favorite of mine in Star Trek Online... I name them all after beetles.
Makes sense that they would go for glass cannons given that they can quickly clone more soldiers.
That ship seems to have a lot of windows for such a small ship, especially as they don't have a big crew compliment. The ships don't even use a view screen, why would the Jem'Hadar even need them?
And thats what the Borg need to assimilate. Get them some Jem'Hadar and Vorta in their mix and expand their tactics and tech. Then we could see little Borg Pyramid shaped fighters maybe? But if they had the Jem'Hadar tech to make Super Solders, Boimler will not have time to save those borg babies.
Wow, with the insectoid inspiration, I'm half surprised the thing didn't have gigantic, fully functional robotic insect legs. Imagine one of these things with such equipment literally walking around a planet surface or on an asteroid? That would have been terrifying!
They were tough, but the Defiant's phasers could easily annihilate one.
I always thought they looked like bed bugs. To the point I thought the bed bug similarity was intentional.
Weird decision the ramming of the Galaxy class because it was presented as a Kamikaze run. The reason this makes little sense is because if it was an accepted tactic the Dominion would design ships like the Imperium in 40K with reinforced structures and rams on them, just as we saw in antiquity, which would be far more effective. It might have looked cool but it was inconsistent with the show's internal logic.
Honestly, the bug ship was really kind of cool.
If the ship had no windows, what are those white dots and dashes on the main hull? Looks like 3 decks of windowed rooms.
Very good question!
It was the main bridge/control center that had no windows. He didn't say that there were "no windows on the ship."
@@iamSpazticus there’s a lot tactical windows for 50 soldiers that don’t off duty.
Calling the Attack Ships "fighters" is the same as calling the Defiant a "fighter".
The pack tactics they use are the same as the plan to use Defiant wings against the Borg.
The disposable nature always annoyed me. It mean it kind of makes sense when you have nearly an etire quadrant under control. But once that mine field went up the destruction of each ship would be a serious blow to logistics. Particularly with how small the Cardassian space was. It is just a waste of resources at a point when wasting resources would just lead to a slow bleed and ultimate loss.
That was one of the reasons why the Dominion lost the advantage that they had early in the war. The Federation, Klingons and Romulans all quickly developed tactics to counter the Jem'hadar fleet, including aggressive use of their own (smaller) fighters, and smaller ships, like the Mirandas, Defiants and bird-of-preys as screens for the larger ships. The Jem'hadar struggled to adapt their own tactics throughout the war, as they were much less creative than their enemies.
@@Cailus3542
The Dominion more than made up for it's lack of creativity with the sheer aggressiveness and genetically-engineered fanaticism of it's Jem'Hadar warriors...😐
I never understood why any of the big model making companies never offered this as a kit to build. Hell the Kazon torpedo ship only appears in one episode of Voyager and Monogram said sure let's make that kit, but the Jem'Hadar fighter is in a few seasons of episodes and we get nothing. Make that make sense.
"Toops" is on the graphic, rather than "troops"
Good video
🙂👍
The little beetle ship that could.
The tactics were : you can't hit me if I'm not there, and can't shoot us if we have already boarded you, or destroyed you...
What's the music used on this?
These ships could also use anti-proton scans to detect cloaked ships, if the neutrino levels were high enough.
here's my question.. In Star Trek Online whats the difference between the OG attack ship and the modern bugs?
Wasn’t it a lone Klingon bird of prey chief engineer able to on the fly adapt shields or because of a warp core imbalance gave their shields immunity? This little event was what gave the alpha quadrant the ability to adapt shields?
Think about how minimal you need as far as comforts for the crew when its Jew Hadar in most of them. When all you need to do is have it be able to move fast and have weapons and basic shields. IT has to be super cost effective to make things like this. And the ship itself is a weapon cause the crew has zero self preservation by design.
It has a lot more windows then I remember.
if these are glass cannon, then what are peregrine fighters?
kinda a tie fighter.
i love the beetle ships though
2,450 metric tonnes, not tons. Pedantic, I realise, but an important distinction. Ton is an Imperial measure equal to 2,240lbs. Tonne is a metric measure equal to 1,000kg.
Hull windows (if that's what they are) revealing more arching hilly floor decks. There is no up in space nor in some Star Trek ships.
So basically, Twin Ion Engine Starfighters?
Oh wow the flickering of the model's surface... I assume this is taken from a game and not a model made for this video? I had the same issue when making my first blender models for a game was writing just for fun (and never finished). But I was an amateur and quickly noticed what was wrong with the mapping. That commercial games are shipped with bugs like these is a a bit embarrassing. :')
I thought they used plasma torpedoes. I think that's what the guy said in the episode where a torpedo gets stuck inside the Defiant and Quark and the guy who sold the torpedo to the Dominion have to defuse it. Spoiler Alert: turns out it's a dud and the guy says he should offer them a refund.
Two typos and a misspelling in the infographic -- things are back to normal. I guess this guy was on vacation for the past few videos, and someone with access to a spell-checker subbed in. "SHEILDING," "TOOPS," and "DISSIPATER".
Are those lights not windows?
when fighting a jem hadr take out engines immediately lol
They call it a fighter. I'd have called it a corvette.
It looks closer to a bed bug than scarab
Pretty much the pleb fodder spaceship of the Dominon.
I love the Dominion ships I didn’t like the view screen concept