I apologized to Eric for being as rough on his guns as I am on mine, but to the rest of you, perhaps an explanation of where I’m coming from: These tough tools manage tiny explosions - they are like little engine blocks, and not family heirlooms. The more folks engage in fighting oriented training, the more rough they get with these instruments of destruction, ex: violent weapon disarms, doing force-on-force, grappling over a gun, punching muzzles through glass windows, etc. Nothing came close to being unsafe in this video (at my request we locked all slides to the rear before the video and took magazines out). Also, no guns were in anyway damaged (if they were, they should be replaced with tougher guns that you can trust your life to in a fight).
Exactly. There's nothing cooler than seeing a high end folding knife beat to crap, hard used. It's made/designed for it. U wouldn't put a screwdriver in a safe & leave it there, never to be used. (I know, I have guns & knives I'm safes. Dohhhhh)
I agree; if a pistol can't handle being dropped a few inches, it doesn't belong in my gun safe. I noticed you guys cleared all the guns in the video, so it's all good. Shouldn't they all be drop safe at that height, anyway?
Eric is always adjusting the guns in the videos I think it gives him something to do while others are talking... if he’s afraid of damage he should use a padded table... lol
John Lovell ...Mr. Lovell, you are gentleman and a scholar ...who may or may be rough on guns. Well at least Eric’s ...lol. Good vid guys, and thank you both for your service.
John Lovell I like you but I don't know how Eric didn't freak out when u threw the gun down.......i cannot say I would have been so cool about it ....... not because u could scratch it or damage it but because ur teaching new gun owners improper handling of a firearm........ new gun owners might think it's ok to throw a gun down ...... always handle it as if it was loaded and new gun owners may not know that rule and will think because ur an instructor they might think that's the way they should be handled but if they do it with some guns and it's loaded it could go off and hurt or kill someone....... that being said I'm going to subscribe to ur channel because u seem very knowledgable
Travis Davis I kind of agree but firstly he already apolagised, and secondly, being an SF guy, hes probbably beat someone over the head with a loaded weapon so dropping it on a table probably doesn't even register as "bad manners". I still agree that he should handle Eric's guns with more care though.
A good shooter can force most any gun to perform, but when you get to choose, pick the one that feels best. That's the good thing about having lots of options.
This. I have an 9m shield. It's not a bad gun and I can shoot it just fine, especially after I added some grip tape. I've just fired other handguns that I liked more and would prefer over my shield, mostly due to grip feel as they both function the same to me. Sad thing is, I can't remember the name of the handgun I loved shooting the most. Grip was just right, sights were just right, a dream.
Honestly, the 8 seconds from 4:36 to 4:44 have more information on proper grip than most 20 minute grip videos. I watched that segment over and over. Thanks a lot guys, amazing work.
Agree completely, jasonnaubur8759! Guns are tools and grips on tools differ. Who amongst us has mastered his tools without an occasional tutorial from someone more experienced. Is it possible to think so ?
Yep, agreed. I think I needed to hear “clear the knuckle” of the thumb. I just got a full size Walther PDP and I think it’s actually slightly too big for my hands because it’s difficult for me to clear my thumb knuckle.
You realize they’re all different guns right. There’s a sig,m&p,canik,and a hammer fired gun I can’t tell. Stop thinking you know more than everyone and you may learn.
Brendan Fernlund you know, John's got a point about autos. As long as you don't have baby hands, adapting grip technique goes a long way. Where this philosophy starts to fall apart is magnum revolvers though. There's no slide action to slow down that recoil impulse. The impulse that travels through the frame goes right into your hand at full speed, and grip type makes a MASSIVE difference to hand shape and personal hand needs. Cushy rubber with a massive palm swell and large low finger notches? (Hogue) or a more fitted smooth wood that let's your middle finger brace higher? This is a HUGE difference. I've tried both and wgat works for one caliber or barrel length doesn't always work for the other.
Ravissary79 he’s talking about training, he’s a trainer. Nobody takes a revolver to training. Usually a class requires you to bring 1,000 rounds of ammo, revolver ammo is expensive. Nobody is buying 1,000 of .357, .44, or .500 to take to class.
All i got from that is this is how a persuade my students to shoot glock.. i shoot my glocks 1911s and berettas all with a similar hand structure but slightly different variants depending on which pistol or even which caliber.. remeber no matter what pistol brand we shoot even this expert theres a 99.9% chance Jerry Miculek can out shoot us with a wheel gun
The first 3/4's of the video "People who say a gun doesn't fit me well just aren't holding it right". Last 1/4 "Except that the LCP and the Canik don't fit me". FWIW I've not really found any guns that I can't shoot, but it's undeniable that some feel better than others. There's no way you can grab a Beretta 92 and then grab a Browning Hi Power and not have a preference one way or another. Doesn't mean you can't shoot both well, but for most people one or the other is going to feel a lot better.
"I prefer the way this gun feels" is acceptable. "This gun don't fit my hand!" is stupid, unless it is just too damn tiny like a mouse gun, or giving a 105lb woman a Glock 21. There's extremes that don't work. Now, If a man is given a Glock 19 and he says "It's just not comfy" that is pretty sad and kind of a feminine thing to say.
Caleb Melton some of it is outdated but I wouldn’t want him on the other team in a fight. Most of his stuff is real world and still applies today. Look at Eric and chad they post all kinds of rifles that are extremely outdated but still punch holes in anything you aim them at. Something about the older stuff it has a soul it’s not a throw away gun.
#1 John is an awesome dude who is humble enough to apologize over something like setting a steel gun down on a wooden table a little harder than grandpa showed you. #2 You guys made an awesome video together, more content like this would be cool. P.S. If Eric was worried about his guns he would have said something.. I should have just commented before reading everyone else's lol.
I chose my first handgun because one gun fit my hand better than the other. So when Paul says it I completely get it. Both guns were reputable brand name guns and comparable to each other. It came down to how it felt in my hands. I hadn't shot either of them so they were on an even playing field for me at the time. I'm team Paul.
When I bought my first semi auto handgun in 1993, I was choosing between a Glock 17, a SIG P226, and a CZ75. I picked each one up and the CZ won hands down. The SIG was a distant second and the Glock wasn't even on the radar anymore.
I like what Clint Smith says about being a "student of weaponcraft" (able to adapt and be reasonably competent with whatever may be at hand) being preferable to being an expert with just one system. When I go shooting with friends and they offer to let me shoot their Glocks, I do well with them, but I don't enjoy them at all and wouldn't choose them for myself. if i were to make the switch from hammer fired to striker, I'd go with the Walther PPQ or Steyr M9A1
Shotbytim the steyr shoots like a dream. I bought one as a glock alternative. Accurate as a laser too and fits oh so nice. Better trigger too. I eventually broke down and bought a glock, but it's only because beretta and steyr don't make a 10mm. The G20 is a good investment.
Shotbytim so... at what point do you think you will be dropping so many bad guys that you have to pick up their gats to kill more of them? John Wick much?
I once handed a friend of mine my ankle piece because we were driving through an area that had riots going on, and he didn’t have his weapon on him. He normally carries a full sized. Went to the range the next week and had him give that same sub-compact a go, and he had a lot of trouble. Know how to use a wide variety of tools.
I could be wrong, but what I hear is that his students say they don't like Glock because they "don't fit their hand." They are trying to say in a nice way that the gun feels like a textured brick. He then proceeds to tell them they are holding it wrong. Like I said, I could be wrong, but I've had gun "experts" try to convince me of the same. Meanwhile I have handguns from almost every other manufacturer and I'm perfectly happy with all of them and shoot just fine. Just don't try tell me that something feels good when it doesn't to me. Feel is subjective, not quantitative. At the end of the day, there's simply NO reason to buy a gun that doesn't feel good. There's plenty of great choices in the marketplace. Buy what YOU like. Not some "expert."
I did not hear him say that. I believe what he said is that most of his students who say that are holding the gun wrong. If you are doing everything right and still don't like how the gun feels great. But if you are not using proper forms, then....maybe... Its you. They also go into pretty obvious feel issues like big hands on a subcompact or small hands on a larger gun.
With so many different gun options out there why would I not choose something that fits me comfortably? It's not like there's only two or three brands out there
exactly. Long gone are the days of just settling for something like a Glock because it’s not the 90’s and there are plenty of reliable polymers semiautos now which have better features as well.
Yeah, I like getting guns with $50 impossible to find mags and parts, and holsters all for "muh hand fits" A side benefit of this is I get to train to get good with an obscure gun that nobody including police use.
im assuming its more of a fact of "I dont like this gun because it doesnt feel good on first pickup" rather than training with it. its akin to someone disliking a ferrari because they spun the wheels and almost hit a tree one time. once you have some seat time with a wide variety, you have your basics down to a science, then you can make an educated decision rather than first impression and impulse. not referring to any brand as better or worse btw
One thing not mentioned that is important regarding fit, is the ability to reach all controls without having to manipulate the gun awkwardly. Some mag releases, safeties and slide locks can present legitimate problems for various hand sizes.
He runs past everything, not just dad jokes. You can tell he was thinking about something the whole time the other person is talking then he'll just spout what he was thinking without even acknowledging what the other person said or just a lil "yup".
John is a relatively young man. In years to come when arthritis and injuries takes it toll he will understand the importance of how it fits my hand. Not trying to discredit him at all but things like that is a real issue. Not trying to make up for poor shooting but I can tell in the gun shop if I will be able to shoot a gun well.
When I was in the army everyone had AK47 and nobody cared if it fits...by the end of the training it fitted anyway. Now I'm picking hunting rifle and a friend of mine advised me to buy what fits me...I told him that I am just going to buy a good one and use it until fits
Eh, no thanks. If I'm going to pay a lot of money for a gun, shoot it on the range every chance I get, and carry it every day, then I want to like it. I don't think that's too much to ask. There are a lot of guns out there to choose from, so why not keep looking till you find the perfect (for you) gun? My Walther fits great in my hands and I shoot it great. Glad I didn't settle. Also, hands do come in different sizes. That's why gloves come in different sizes. My hands are larger than most people's, what's comfortable for you I might not even be able to get a full grip on.
If the gun doesn't fit, it means the mag release requires me to break my grip, or it means I can't reach the slide release, or maybe the LOP is just too long for my small hands. It's about finding a pistol that I can control and manipulate adequately.
The main reason I’m looking for something with the European paddle mag release. I have to rotate my P320 with the small grip module to reach the mag release.
Will I buy a firearm if I pick it up and it does feel good?... No... For example I absolutely hate the feel of a Glock, but can I deploy it effectively?... Yes. Would I rather have my Springfield XD9 Mod2, Shield, or one of my 1911's. It's all about technique. If I had a choice, like most people do, I wouldn't buy something that doesn't fit my grip to begin with.
I love springfields. Springfield s&w Glock. One is round. One is square. One is in between. Pick whatever feels good. Stay in that family. Just don't knock others' choices. I think my wife is absolutely stunning. You may like more angled than round faces and may not think so. I'm the one that uses her not you ;) doesn't mean I can't get it up for someone that looks different. Just like it doesnt mean I can't hit a shot with a glock just bc I prefer springfields
Perfectly said. I have owned many glocks and I just don't shoot them that well. If they work for you, great. I just prefer what works for me. Please, you "experts" on You Tube, don't tell me it's because I don't have the proper grip.
I know the feeling. I'm not that great with them either. Too many years with a plow handle in my hands. Lol I do pretty fair with a 1911... But I still find I shoot my 1851 colts best.
Rollin Jones that seems weird. Does that happen when you drive a different car or truck too? For example “I can drive the Chevy really well but if I get behind the wheel of a ford I’m all over the road and blowing through stop signs.” Either you’re a good driver or not, either you can shoot or you can’t.
@Frank, I just started watching Harrel's vids this week and as soon as I saw him shoot 3" barreled pistols through a chronograph at 7 yds without even blinking I knew he was formidable.
Sorry, No matter where I place my hands on a Glock, it still feels like a plastic brick. On the other hand (sic), Beretta APX feels awesome, M&P 2.0 feels decent as well.
Super Awesome Cool Dude Everytime I hear someone bitching about the feel of a pistol, it's the "brick in the hand", "bad grip angle" anti-glock stuff. I own Glock and CZ pistols, I Iove them both. I don't think either one magically points better than the other. Edit:...and Sig
Good for you, I guess? I'm not going to burn through a few cases of ammo trying to master a Glock when my CZ puts the bullets where I want them right out of the box.
Warrior Poet Society I agree with most points in the video, but I think feel is important. I like the way the M&P 2.0 Compact feels more than the Glock 19. What’s wrong with buying what just feels better and deciding to stick with that platform?
I've been shooting all of my life and if I walk into a store to plunk down five hundred plus dollars for a gun, it better damn well be comfortable in my hand or you aren't selling me that gun.
Greetings from Kentucky: if you'll allow me to quote Kevin Michelowski of the USCCA...when talking about the selection of a first hand gun: "its a matter of fit, size and ease of use."
Frank Carvell...Also from Kentucky, and I have to say that this John fellow seems to go against what other experts say, and what companies have adapted as their modifications. Look at all the modular grip inserts, etc. out in the market.
I'm a guy who has a genuine gripe with guns not working for me because my hands are HUGE. When I was a machinist at a manufacturing plant, it took three months for the safety director to find me some chemical gloves big enough. He ended up finding them in Sweden, where my people came from (makes sense I guess 🤷🏼♂️😂) and they were expensive. Palm a basketball? How about a bowling ball.... 😂 I literally don't feel safe firing some of these smaller concealed carry firearms. When your hand basically envelopes the entire gun, things aren't where they are supposed to be and accidents can happen. I remember looking at a Desert Eagle at a gun shop and the clerk said "holy crap, that gun looks like a 9mm in your hand". 😂 It was literally the only comfortable gun in the shop for me. 🤷🏼♂️ A lot of the 1911 models work okay for me, but soooooo many concealed carry firearms are just a "nope" for me. Some folks complain about their hands being too big for certain guns, but in my case, it's just a plain truth. 🤷🏼♂️ Us big guys just have nothing that's built "just for us". From guns, to cars and clothes, it feels like we're giants in Lilliput when it comes to all of these products. 🤣
I'm a newer shooter so I don't have the credentials to back up any claims. But I still have my opinions. And I'm right there with you. My fingers are so long that I feel the normal way people train to pull a trigger is hindering my accuracy progression ( I shoot low left). I'm going to try and used the middle of my index trigger next time and see if I get better results. Ultimately, most people are averaged sized, and so the big guys don't get the proper training I feel we need. Especially using products that just aren't made for large handed people. I have an FN 509 because it's ergonomic and fits with my hand better than most other guns (could be wider, but I'm happy). Imo it's flawed to suggest or have undertones supporting a weapon or any tool that has bad ergonomics. Bad ergonomics could cause a situation where serious injury or even kill someone. May people be holding a gun wrong? Yes, but that doesn't excuse manufacturers to say it's a utility there for blah blah blah... Anyways, I'm with you bud!
1st off Paul Harrell is the best gun guy on the internet, no bull no sales hype just great information, I have nothing against Glock the one I purchased was a 17L, My trigger finger was constantly scraping the trigger guard, I sold that gun. CZ, 1911's and revolers are just fine. Looking forward to a Sig p210. Glock did not fit my hand.
Sometimes it could be down to the person not having the understanding or vocabulary to convey what’s not working with a particular grip. And so the “this gun don’t fit my hand” could be them trying to express something they cant explain properly and are looking for some help
I don't care if the tool is a shovel. If I'm going to be doing a lot of work with it, one factor will be comfort. Sorry, I don't completely buy into the idea of "It's a tool, it doesn't need to fit your hand well." mentality. If the person doesn't know how to hold a gun at all, that's obviously a problem. If the person does know how to hold a gun, and doesn't like the way it feels, then let them buy the gun they like. Ergonomics does matter. The wine tasting example was horrible. Still love the channel, but this video was a thumbs down for me.
fighton72 Exactly. The mark of an actual quality tool is build quality, material, and ergonomics. With so many brands and styles of pistols it makes no sense to pick an uncomfortable gun if an option that "feels" better exists. Feel is subjective obviously, but a gun you're comfortable with is a gun you'll perform better with. I'll agree it's used as an excuse quite often, but it doesn't mean it's not a valid concern. Goes on to saw "fit" doesn't matter, but grip angle does. Grip angle is a LARGE part of feel for most people. My Glock 20 is a compromise gun. I do have small hands, but it's the best compromise for the caliber. I can shoot it fine, but my M&P 2.0 or XD9, which I shoot equally well feels better and is more comfortable without even considering recoil.
fighton72 - And your comment only served to expose your need for gel filled triggers pads, angel-poop lubricated springs, and lavender scented bullets. Grow up snowflake, comfort is the stuff wusses are made of...
My wife is learning how to shoot, tried my G17 and G19, Beretta, SW 686. Yes she can hold it and fire them all but I'm 5'11 and she's 4'11 and 100lbs; she doesn't enjoy using them because she finds them difficult to grip. Her hand is smaller than mine, naturally, so got her a G48 which suits her better. She's not a wimp and can drive a dump truck at work if she had to, the steering wheel fits her hand, LoL.
I hate the glock grip angle I feel like it's to steep and I grew up shooting a beretta and Tokarev so I love the my M&P 2.0 compact and the texture on the grip feels great
Ever notice that a Glock's grip has a different angle on the front than the back? The front of the grip has the angle of the 1911 and the back has the angle of a Luger, resulting in a sway back that is the most awkward grip of any pistol I've fired, even worse in the compact models.
Only legitimate gripe to this is if your hand is too small to reach the trigger. I wear a medium size glove and some da/sa guns I can’t reach the trigger to get a proper grip. The beretta m9 fits my hand like a glove. Any handgun I can reach the trigger I can and should be able to shoot well.
Soylent Green this is a moot point my 12-year-old niece can shoot every gun I own, with proper training a lot of people realize that it’s not the gun it’s the person behind it. I had a video up for years of my son at seven years old shooting my Glock 19 no problem.
IrishSavage87 if your son or niece can shoot a cz 97b I will be impressed. I can’t get my finger on the trigger the length of pull is too long. I shoot competitively rifle and pistol and have shot since I was a kid doing quite well. Can’t change my hand size.
It’s not about comfort or blaming the gun. My Glock 32 simply doesn’t fit my hand. My fingers are too big for the grooves, and my pinkie finger hangs over the bottom. This results in my not being able to get the grip I NEED for quick shots and instilled confidence. If I’m shooting 357 sig and the gun is kicking hard, not having proper purchase on the weapon grip is detrimental.
Years ago, I was a young police officer and was required to switch from my duty pistol at the time, a Smith &Wesson 5906, to the new departmental pistol, the Glock 17. It drove me nuts for a long time because the Glock pointed really high for me. The range instructors all said it was my imagination or that I was holding the gun wrong. They also said a lot of other nonsense about how the Glock was the best handgun ever devised and that I was just not that good with guns in general and Glocks in particular, when I always had perfect scores on my qualifications. It took me a long time, carrying the Glock both on duty and off, to adjust to the grip to where I could get a natural point of aim with it. I would say that if you want, you can adjust to any pistol. I was just peeved and carried other guns off duty for awhile, and thus didn't make as smooth a transition as I should have.
John Dilday yes but if you had a choice you would go with SW. Why? Since it fit your hand better you naturally could shoot better. No ones hand is the same and guns have different forms that differ so comfort does matter. Training through garbage and overcoming is something you do when it's issued like in your case. In the Army same thing, you had ARs that behaved temperamentally so you bear the hell out of them to make them work for you.
I got what one guy called 'baby hands'. Not the way I'd put it, but I have a lot less discomfort with the subcompacts than most. Not to mention the Ruger Bearcat ;) When you are holding on with two fingers, it ain't much fun... You can shoot it, but you won't buy it.
It's said in regards to Glock in an attempt to appear to have some kind of well-developed "taste" in firearms. Remember, most of the gun subculture is really just about collecting, not training, not shooting, not getting more proficient and lethal.
I tell people all the time, comfortability is not the most important thing. It's *maybe* 3rd on the list. 1.) Reliability 2.) Purpose fit 3.) Comfortability. Is probably the order I'd put it. The first thing you should do when selecting a gun is find reliable brands. (No taurus, hi point, kel tec etc) Next narrow it down based of the role the gun is going to fill. (i.e. concealed carry, range toy, purely home defense) the gun has to fit it's intended role. A Glock 34 may be super reliable and comfortable but it wouldn't fit the role of concealed carry for most. You would end up leaving it at home, which does you no good. Once you've narrowed it down based off of reliability and purpose, you can now look at things like reliability and aftermarket/holster availability or warranties to help make your decision.
@@hansblitz7770 I was brand new and didn't like how Glocks felt. I had no exquisite taste in guns at that point. When I eventually shot one it wasn't bad at all but I really didn't like it the grip. It felt like I was holding a 2 x 4.
I totally agree with you guys. I've got big bear paws, and so I tend to avoid the smaller frames. Now, I *can* shoot them but it takes more concentration, more deliberate action, more mental control, to make my hits, than say, a full size handgun that natural slides right into my hand and meets all the touch points. And your point about smaller hands not reaching controls was spot on. Too often I hear carry the biggest gun you can, and it's not always the case if they can't fight effectively with it. Great video!
Glock engineers just rejoiced as they now have an excuse to keep on building guns with the ergos of a 2x4. I think grip comfort is imperative, especially considering the average shooter doesn't shoot for a living.
The shit Glock fanboys say to excuse Glock being the real antiquated design on the market these days is all. The reason why the aftermarket is so huge isn’t because owners are content with what they bought in the first place.
airbomb34 well, the aftermarket is cool if you like to mess with them. I'm jealous because I'm not a fan of Glock but at the same time I really wanna make my guns super cute by tinkering with them. I would have made mine Pink Perfection with extra bedazzles...
Hans Blitz I got Hi-Point Glahk 40 problem solver!! And what do you mean by copy? They all are polymer framed, striker fired (besides the security 9 which is a hammer fired), with a Browning locking system.... All of which Glock didn't invent.
Glock made the first Browing-Action, Polymer Striker fired gun which is what all of the plastic fantastic guns are. That combination. The Hi-Point is a Blowback though so it gets a pass, since that is more akin to the H&K VP70. Polymer + Striker + Browning Action = Glock and its derivatives. It is really amusing to see the mental gymnastics one must play to believe that an M&P, VP9, Walther PPQ, CZ P10c, XD are somehow "totally different" than a Glock. Really funny. Comes from retards with no understanding of engineering. Bubba-Hick American doesn't understand these things. He just wants to chug Busch Light and resort to emotional arguments.
Hans Blitz I think some could construe your inflammatory verbage as emotional. I'm really not sure who you're debating, because you're making claims that no one stated here... I understand much of firearms engineering. Yes, Glock did some newer stuff but it didn't reinvent the wheel. I respect the design. But it followed others and others will follow it. Getting confrontational about that limits any kind of progress or improvement... getting fired up about critiques could be taken as an emotional argument.
Kind of a waste of a gripe. Grip matters, angle matters and ergo matters. There is a reason people shoot pistols with goofy looking ergo grips. There is nothing wrong with wanting a good feeling gun. That is the gun you will practice with, and if the grip isn't comfortable, shooting will become a chore. You want the best system for the job. A gun may be a tool, but there is a reason hammers, screwdrivers and shovels come in different sizes with different grips... Regardless, the way the grip feels, the angle and textures will without a doubt affect your trigger pull, making it inconsistent even with the correct grip. All grips are different, regardless if they look similar. aaaaaaaand there is my 2 cents.
d4walkline - I couldn't get all the way through your sniveling comment. Basically I get that you are a sensitive little flower that needs his mommy to rock him to sleep, and you also got your feelings hurt. So I deduce that you have all the tacti-cool crap on your Batman tool belt that makes you comfy when you go to the gun club and shoot clay targets with Biff.
Walther PPQ M2 - fits like a glove, great trigger, good sight. Glocks fit my hand ok but the trigger and sights do not let me shoot as well as it can shoot.
I LOVE THIS!! I just had a young lady who was going to go G43 b/c the G17/19 "didn't fit her hand". I held up my hand and her's is just slightly larger. I pointed out that she was planning to give up 33% ammo capacity per magazine and she had already qualified with that fuller sized grip as a PD intern. She went w/ a Gen 5 G19.
18 minute glock commercial. I love John but he’s so all about glock he sounds like he’s forcing people into glocks. People have valid gripes about glocks and this video felt like it was just trying to delegitimize all glock complaints
when i go back and forth from my 1911 double stack back to a long slide glocks with slide riders it will jack me up for a couple mags every time. that angle change is a killer on time.
My thought is, if I’m going to put down $500-2000 on something, I want to get the one I like the best. If I don’t like how something looks, deal breaker. If I don’t like how it feels, deal breaker. There are dozens of good guns, why not buy the one that makes you not regret anything?
I don't entirely disagree with the video but I think an important point is overlooked. I certainly don't advocate choosing a gun based solely on how it feels in the hand, and I don't think anybody does. HOWEVER, all other things being equal, why not choose the gun that "feels" better? When I decided to buy my first handgun, I had already done tons of research, I was particularly looking at a Glock, FNH FNS, S&W M&P or Springfield XD. I was leaning towards the Glock because I wanted a 10mm, but I decided to check the guns out in person before ordering one.(I figured most shops would have a Glock but probably not a 10mm) I wanted to like the Glock, but I hated the feel of it, it has all the ergonomics of a brick, I didn't like the way the Springfield felt either. I think most would agree that any one of those choices would be good, and that they are all in the same ballpark in cost, reliability, etc. But if all the other things are relatively equal, why not choose on feel? I liked the FNS the best hands down, the M&P was a close second for me, I would have likely bought an FNS, but I wound up getting an M&P because I found some police trade ins for a great price. I get the point of the video, and agree up to a point, but to me it should still have SOME merit, namely, when all other things are equal, or close enough to equal to make little to no difference.
While I agree that a pistol is a tool and you adapt to it, not to you, there is something to be said for comfort. I am a decent shooter, I could use more practice but 1911's and most Glocks feel great to me while holding as apposed to a M&P or most Sigs. They also point well for me during a draw and use. All this to say use whatever feels good (grip) and you shoot well. To say comfort is not a factor I have to respectfully disagree.
I'm glad they touched on grip angle. I can go to the range and shoot everything from my Walther P-22 to my .500 S&W. The biggest difference in all those guns is when the grip angle changes. All the guns I use for daily carry have one thing in common. When I pull them, I don't have to adjust for the grip angle.
Glock fan boys, you gotta love them. Their videos usually go something like this. Well I got the new Glock 99 gen. 56 and all I had to do to this gun is change the grips, trigger and the sights, man these guns are the best.
When I was looking at a cc pistol I was looking at the shield but the grip with the short mag just barley did it for me so I didn’t like it. But I needed a pistol so I got it anyway. It’s not that bad, the pinky doesn’t have much strength anyway and if I squeeze they all make it. Just deal with it and it will be fine.
Love the bore axis mention - this is a nugget I’ve not heard or seen before. I have tiny hands and struggle to reach the trigger and get a good position under the tang. I am of the mindset that you adapt to your gun (as opposed to using tools or constantly changing your gun to FIT you and your potentially sloppy habits). I’ve shot guns since I was a little girl and my hands were even tinier then and all you can do is adapt. But that little golden nugget is going to help me in the near future. THANKS SO MUCH!
There are multiple reasons that I don’t care for glocks. Price, the slogan...”glock perfection “, and compared to what I do like, I don’t care for how they look. I know that shouldn’t...and doesn’t matter...but for the price and a quality set of sights AND, metal mags... I prefer the M&P pistols. But that’s just my opinion. One doesn’t really feel or fit better than the other I suppose.
Melon Rain I thought it was funny when he mentioned antiquated because that is what Glock has become in the US handgun market relying almost entirely on appeal to authority marketing rather than any innovation or better features.
A little tip that might help you out when people say it doesnt feel comfortable. When you learn how to properly hold a gold club, it is awkward as hell. It doesn't feel natural and is far from comfortable but you will immediatly notice the ball flies "straighter". In time, holding the club in that manner feels right, comfortable and you don't notice it anymore but your balls continue to fly straight.
I’ve shot rifles for 60 years. We bought our first pistols about 18 months ago. As complete novices, my wife chose the Baretta M-9 and for an old woman with zero experience, she is a natural. If we have a home invasion, I’d expect the intruder to have multiple hits close together. And I love how her tiny little hands handle that “huge” grip that so many men complain about on the M-9. We now have an M&P Plus. She’s even better with it.
I've always had a saying about my snap on tools,my guns,my truck or whatever i'm using. "I'm not gonna go out of my way to abuse it, but i'm not gonna be afraid to use it".
If someone says "it doesn't fit my hand" ask what they mean. Can you not reach the controls? do you find it harder to control than others you've shot? is it actually painful to shoot? Those are criticisms you can analyze and determine if it's actually the gun's fault or the shooter's. My wife and I (both amateurs) went shooting recently and rented 5 different guns to compare. We didnt like the M&P (double stack), the Springfield XDS was ok, we both loved the M&P Shield, we both liked the P320, and we both hated the Glock. We had different reasons for each but it wasn't "it doesn't fit my hand".
I bought my first Pistol , Taurus PT 24/7 G2C 9mm, because when I picked it up it felt right and I was naturally point it straight without having to adjust sights. Hadnt shot any pistols previously except one or two shots out of my brothers SDVE 40
He was a US Army ranger and he sees guns as tools and he mentions in most videos about how you should be able to be harsh with your tools and he probably built the habit.
John: Perfect segway from the wine discussion, to "this jug doesn't fit my hand"! Still laughing. Thanks for the quick grip lesson also. I am currently working on that aspect of shooting.
Benjamin Ponzer Grip angle doesn’t really have much to do with how the gun “fits your hand”. That has more to do with what platform you have more experience on and what you’re used to.
Benjamin Ponzer I disagree. Grip angle has nothing to do with “fitting” certain hands. If anything, it’s about disliking the way your wrist is canted/straightened. In that sense, it comes down to preference. Again, nothing to do with “Example A doesn’t fit my hand”.
I was one of those people that once focused more on how the gun fit my hand and did not like how Glocks felt BUT then I started shooting more and working on my grip and now shooting my Glocks are more natural than shooting my SIGs. Training and practice are key being perficient and when your life depends on it fractions of a second can matter.
As soon as John decided that "all guns basically feel the same to everyone, and if they don't, you're basically holding them wrong" even though Glock feels like a fucking Lego brick and every other major gun feels better in the hand to most shooters... Well, he lost a lot of credibility IMO. Comfort is PART of bottom line performance. Some guns just don't feel right to certain people and it can show in their shooting. And I'm no veteran shooter, and I can shoot any gun just fine if you give me a mag full with it, including Glocks. But don't tell me that if I don't feel comfortable, that I CAN shoot it to it's FULL potential. I don't buy that for a second.
So, the take-away: hand fit isn't an excuse for poor technique. I agree. I also agree it's often used as an excuse. With that said, there's no reason to choose an uncomfortable gun if a comfortable version exists in the size, caliber, etc you're looking for. Yeah, holding a gun isn't natural, but neither is the bulk of hobbies, tools, or day to day tasks. Ergonomics is ALWAYS a concern and it's the mark of a good company to make their products as "natural" to use as possible. If hand fit wasn't a valid concern we could eliminate 75% of the guns on the market. That isn't the case because certain things work better for certain people. Guy then goes on to mention all the ways gun-fit DOES matter
There are so many good guns out there. Why should I put up with a gun that doesn't "fit my hand," just because my instructor happens to be Glock fanboy? I'm spending the money. I'm the one that has to shoot it. I want a gun that is reliable AND shoots comfortably and naturally. I really wanted to like the CZ P-09. I read all the reviews and by the numbers it was great. But as soon as I picked it up I knew I couldn't buy it. Even with with the smallest backstrap, I can't reach the trigger and keep the gun straight. There's just too much distance for me. It didn't fit my hand.
1. Great content as always. 2. ‘Better’ is different than ‘does not’. Especially if coming from a competitive shooter who is trying to shave .01 seconds or 1/8”. 3. You guys work really well together. 4. Rough? Have you seen any of the meltdown videos?
I have had a glock a few years ago and never really cared for the way it “fit my hand” and switched over to m&p and have loved it since then. I feel like it does fit more comfortably and I do tend to shoot better but from that time until now I have realized I really don’t know much about hand guns. I’m really not amazing at shooting hand guns. I grew up hunting since a little kid so I can drop anything with a rifle but had very little hand gun experience. So I’m just now starting to look into how I am doing things and trying to get better.
My most natural pointing gun is my Luger P08. My next would be my CA Undercover with the polymer grips that are on it. My Ruger GP100 factory grips are still comfortable but my older hands cannot handle the recoil of magnum rounds anymore. My favorite and the one I have the most time on is my 92FS.
I apologized to Eric for being as rough on his guns as I am on mine, but to the rest of you, perhaps an explanation of where I’m coming from:
These tough tools manage tiny explosions - they are like little engine blocks, and not family heirlooms. The more folks engage in fighting oriented training, the more rough they get with these instruments of destruction, ex: violent weapon disarms, doing force-on-force, grappling over a gun, punching muzzles through glass windows, etc. Nothing came close to being unsafe in this video (at my request we locked all slides to the rear before the video and took magazines out). Also, no guns were in anyway damaged (if they were, they should be replaced with tougher guns that you can trust your life to in a fight).
Exactly. There's nothing cooler than seeing a high end folding knife beat to crap, hard used. It's made/designed for it. U wouldn't put a screwdriver in a safe & leave it there, never to be used. (I know, I have guns & knives I'm safes. Dohhhhh)
I agree; if a pistol can't handle being dropped a few inches, it doesn't belong in my gun safe. I noticed you guys cleared all the guns in the video, so it's all good. Shouldn't they all be drop safe at that height, anyway?
Like you said John, they're just tools. Punch someone in the face with a muzzle and it's bound to knock out some teeth. ;)
Eric is always adjusting the guns in the videos I think it gives him something to do while others are talking... if he’s afraid of damage he should use a padded table... lol
John Lovell HIS guns John. HIS
Paul Harrell is the gun world's Chuck Norris. Paul Harrell doesn't wear a gun for protection. The gun wears him for protection.
Paul Harrell calls Chuck Norris “son”.
Paul Harrell calls anyone anything. And they thank him.
Yup
Keanu Reeves called Paul Harrell for gun tactics before he filmed John Wick
Thanks for having me on IV8888! I had a great time! Sorry if I was too rough on your guns - I meant no disrespect.
John Lovell ...Mr. Lovell, you are gentleman and a scholar ...who may or may be rough on guns. Well at least Eric’s ...lol. Good vid guys, and thank you both for your service.
I accept no apologies from someone who can not shoot a canik! That is blasphemy! Hahahaha
John Lovell great colab! Hopefully this helps get you some extra, much deserved exposure. 🍻
John Lovell I like you but I don't know how Eric didn't freak out when u threw the gun down.......i cannot say I would have been so cool about it ....... not because u could scratch it or damage it but because ur teaching new gun owners improper handling of a firearm........ new gun owners might think it's ok to throw a gun down ...... always handle it as if it was loaded and new gun owners may not know that rule and will think because ur an instructor they might think that's the way they should be handled but if they do it with some guns and it's loaded it could go off and hurt or kill someone....... that being said I'm going to subscribe to ur channel because u seem very knowledgable
Travis Davis I kind of agree but firstly he already apolagised, and secondly, being an SF guy, hes probbably beat someone over the head with a loaded weapon so dropping it on a table probably doesn't even register as "bad manners".
I still agree that he should handle Eric's guns with more care though.
If Mr. Harrell says it doesn't fit his hand....... IT DOESN'T FIT HIS DAMN HAND! Grrrrrr!
I've supported Paul since he sported mutton chops. Glad to see he is getting the respect he deserves from the gun community
A good shooter can force most any gun to perform, but when you get to choose, pick the one that feels best. That's the good thing about having lots of options.
Greg Camp Pick the one you shoot the best.
Well said.
True. G 23 was kinda small in my hand. G 22 was juuust right. Sllllightly heavier but not by much. They both are convertible sooo
This. I have an 9m shield. It's not a bad gun and I can shoot it just fine, especially after I added some grip tape. I've just fired other handguns that I liked more and would prefer over my shield, mostly due to grip feel as they both function the same to me. Sad thing is, I can't remember the name of the handgun I loved shooting the most. Grip was just right, sights were just right, a dream.
@@jndvs95 Try a CZ 75B. It has for me the best grip--and trigger--outside of a 1911.
Honestly, the 8 seconds from 4:36 to 4:44 have more information on proper grip than most 20 minute grip videos. I watched that segment over and over. Thanks a lot guys, amazing work.
Agree completely, jasonnaubur8759! Guns are tools and grips on tools differ. Who amongst us has mastered his tools without an occasional tutorial from someone more experienced. Is it possible to think so ?
Yep, agreed. I think I needed to hear “clear the knuckle” of the thumb. I just got a full size Walther PDP and I think it’s actually slightly too big for my hands because it’s difficult for me to clear my thumb knuckle.
*goes from one glock to another* "it doesn't matter which pistol I pick up, they all feel the same."
Yeah, he seems to be the kind to support you buying any gun you want, so long as what you want is a Glock.
MethosOhio well, they do all look essentially the same. They probably feel the same too. At least there is consistency in the brand right?
You realize they’re all different guns right. There’s a sig,m&p,canik,and a hammer fired gun I can’t tell. Stop thinking you know more than everyone and you may learn.
Is there any gun other than a Glock? :)
@@colin1818 Yes.
“This gun fits my hand better than this one does.” - Paul Harrell
Brendan Fernlund you know, John's got a point about autos. As long as you don't have baby hands, adapting grip technique goes a long way. Where this philosophy starts to fall apart is magnum revolvers though. There's no slide action to slow down that recoil impulse. The impulse that travels through the frame goes right into your hand at full speed, and grip type makes a MASSIVE difference to hand shape and personal hand needs. Cushy rubber with a massive palm swell and large low finger notches? (Hogue) or a more fitted smooth wood that let's your middle finger brace higher? This is a HUGE difference. I've tried both and wgat works for one caliber or barrel length doesn't always work for the other.
its gotta feel good
Comfortable is a big deal... There are dozens of reliable firearms, pick what you like. I like what i like , you like what you like 🙂
Does it? You be the judge.
Ravissary79 he’s talking about training, he’s a trainer. Nobody takes a revolver to training. Usually a class requires you to bring 1,000 rounds of ammo, revolver ammo is expensive. Nobody is buying 1,000 of .357, .44, or .500 to take to class.
Paul harrels videos are some of the best out there.
I really like Paul's subtle sense of humor. You have to listen closely or you will miss it.
I always told my students to keep their hand deep in the tang. For some reason males remembered it more than females....
Graham Baates my hands are always deep in the tang😂😂
*ZING!!!*
I don`t care who you are, that is funny!
Lmao yeah I wonder why guys remember better, I can hear the giggles on the firing line in my head
"Hehehehe... Deep in the tang"
I keep a great many things deep in the tang...
*Sexual Gun Clicking noises*
Good presentation overall, but I don't plan on buying a used car from John anytime soon.
lol
All i got from that is this is how a persuade my students to shoot glock.. i shoot my glocks 1911s and berettas all with a similar hand structure but slightly different variants depending on which pistol or even which caliber.. remeber no matter what pistol brand we shoot even this expert theres a 99.9% chance Jerry Miculek can out shoot us with a wheel gun
If we were shooting rifles, Jerry miculek could outshoot us with a wheel gun
The first 3/4's of the video "People who say a gun doesn't fit me well just aren't holding it right". Last 1/4 "Except that the LCP and the Canik don't fit me".
FWIW I've not really found any guns that I can't shoot, but it's undeniable that some feel better than others. There's no way you can grab a Beretta 92 and then grab a Browning Hi Power and not have a preference one way or another. Doesn't mean you can't shoot both well, but for most people one or the other is going to feel a lot better.
"I prefer the way this gun feels" is acceptable.
"This gun don't fit my hand!" is stupid, unless it is just too damn tiny like a mouse gun, or giving a 105lb woman a Glock 21. There's extremes that don't work.
Now, If a man is given a Glock 19 and he says "It's just not comfy" that is pretty sad and kind of a feminine thing to say.
@@hansblitz7770 just because you got an opion doesnt make it fact
Paul Harrell has a great channel!
Apparently he holds his handguns "wrong" and he says things like, "I don't like the way this pistol fits my hand" so he can't possibly be an expert.
He's alright but he's stuck in the 80s
Caleb Melton that’s one of the things most of us like about it. He knows his stuff and it’s got an 80’s vibe.
@@thegobblerproject2363 well yeah the vibe is cool..mmthe outdated info is not
Caleb Melton some of it is outdated but I wouldn’t want him on the other team in a fight. Most of his stuff is real world and still applies today. Look at Eric and chad they post all kinds of rifles that are extremely outdated but still punch holes in anything you aim them at. Something about the older stuff it has a soul it’s not a throw away gun.
#1 John is an awesome dude who is humble enough to apologize over something like setting a steel gun down on a wooden table a little harder than grandpa showed you. #2 You guys made an awesome video together, more content like this would be cool. P.S. If Eric was worried about his guns he would have said something.. I should have just commented before reading everyone else's lol.
Five guns that don’t fit my hand.
TortillaJoe Bazan we need this
I think you're on to something!
Damien Lucier I volunteer as tribute
We do need that !
@Tortilla, that definitely should be a vid!!! As well as 'Five Guns That Won't Group Well at 7 yds.'
I chose my first handgun because one gun fit my hand better than the other. So when Paul says it I completely get it. Both guns were reputable brand name guns and comparable to each other. It came down to how it felt in my hands. I hadn't shot either of them so they were on an even playing field for me at the time. I'm team Paul.
When I bought my first semi auto handgun in 1993, I was choosing between a Glock 17, a SIG P226, and a CZ75. I picked each one up and the CZ won hands down. The SIG was a distant second and the Glock wasn't even on the radar anymore.
I like what Clint Smith says about being a "student of weaponcraft" (able to adapt and be reasonably competent with whatever may be at hand) being preferable to being an expert with just one system. When I go shooting with friends and they offer to let me shoot their Glocks, I do well with them, but I don't enjoy them at all and wouldn't choose them for myself. if i were to make the switch from hammer fired to striker, I'd go with the Walther PPQ or Steyr M9A1
Shotbytim the steyr shoots like a dream. I bought one as a glock alternative. Accurate as a laser too and fits oh so nice. Better trigger too.
I eventually broke down and bought a glock, but it's only because beretta and steyr don't make a 10mm. The G20 is a good investment.
Shotbytim so... at what point do you think you will be dropping so many bad guys that you have to pick up their gats to kill more of them? John Wick much?
I once handed a friend of mine my ankle piece because we were driving through an area that had riots going on, and he didn’t have his weapon on him. He normally carries a full sized. Went to the range the next week and had him give that same sub-compact a go, and he had a lot of trouble.
Know how to use a wide variety of tools.
Paul Harrell calls Chuck Norris "son"
Paul read this comment and thought "chuck norris? Never heard of her."
@@jaycable3858 Brilliant lol.
John Lovell can suck a fart outta an ass.. he's a dolt
@@jaycable3858 dont forget about the background noise while we chat.
@@strumptavianroboclick5596 That's a good one, never heard that till now. HA HA
I could be wrong, but what I hear is that his students say they don't like Glock because they "don't fit their hand." They are trying to say in a nice way that the gun feels like a textured brick. He then proceeds to tell them they are holding it wrong. Like I said, I could be wrong, but I've had gun "experts" try to convince me of the same. Meanwhile I have handguns from almost every other manufacturer and I'm perfectly happy with all of them and shoot just fine. Just don't try tell me that something feels good when it doesn't to me. Feel is subjective, not quantitative. At the end of the day, there's simply NO reason to buy a gun that doesn't feel good. There's plenty of great choices in the marketplace. Buy what YOU like. Not some "expert."
Well said
Yeah...but if you cant shoot it...probably not that good
I did not hear him say that. I believe what he said is that most of his students who say that are holding the gun wrong. If you are doing everything right and still don't like how the gun feels great. But if you are not using proper forms, then....maybe... Its you. They also go into pretty obvious feel issues like big hands on a subcompact or small hands on a larger gun.
With so many different gun options out there why would I not choose something that fits me comfortably? It's not like there's only two or three brands out there
exactly. Long gone are the days of just settling for something like a Glock because it’s not the 90’s and there are plenty of reliable polymers semiautos now which have better features as well.
Yeah, I like getting guns with $50 impossible to find mags and parts, and holsters all for "muh hand fits"
A side benefit of this is I get to train to get good with an obscure gun that nobody including police use.
I think John is talking in the context of performance rather than sales - ie someone missing a lot in a course and saying the hand fit is why
@@hansblitz7770 1911's are definitely not impossible to find parts or mags for...
im assuming its more of a fact of "I dont like this gun because it doesnt feel good on first pickup" rather than training with it. its akin to someone disliking a ferrari because they spun the wheels and almost hit a tree one time. once you have some seat time with a wide variety, you have your basics down to a science, then you can make an educated decision rather than first impression and impulse. not referring to any brand as better or worse btw
One thing not mentioned that is important regarding fit, is the ability to reach all controls without having to manipulate the gun awkwardly. Some mag releases, safeties and slide locks can present legitimate problems for various hand sizes.
7:10 he talks about that exactly😂
Eric can’t dad joke. John looks so let down every time he cracks one of his corny jokes and Eric just motors right past without laughing at all.
Russell Ellis CRUSHING!!
John Lovell Man your channel is amazing. Do you have any classes in MN?
It is eh ? Cause we all listen intently to Russ's opinions. THTS.
He runs past everything, not just dad jokes. You can tell he was thinking about something the whole time the other person is talking then he'll just spout what he was thinking without even acknowledging what the other person said or just a lil "yup".
John is a relatively young man. In years to come when arthritis and injuries takes it toll he will understand the importance of how it fits my hand. Not trying to discredit him at all but things like that is a real issue. Not trying to make up for poor shooting but I can tell in the gun shop if I will be able to shoot a gun well.
When I was in the army everyone had AK47 and nobody cared if it fits...by the end of the training it fitted anyway. Now I'm picking hunting rifle and a friend of mine advised me to buy what fits me...I told him that I am just going to buy a good one and use it until fits
limplin7 best comment so far
in soviet russia, gun shoots you!
Exactly muscle memory is all it is get the best gun for the job and become the best shooter with it
Eh, no thanks. If I'm going to pay a lot of money for a gun, shoot it on the range every chance I get, and carry it every day, then I want to like it. I don't think that's too much to ask. There are a lot of guns out there to choose from, so why not keep looking till you find the perfect (for you) gun? My Walther fits great in my hands and I shoot it great. Glad I didn't settle.
Also, hands do come in different sizes. That's why gloves come in different sizes. My hands are larger than most people's, what's comfortable for you I might not even be able to get a full grip on.
If the gun doesn't fit, it means the mag release requires me to break my grip, or it means I can't reach the slide release, or maybe the LOP is just too long for my small hands. It's about finding a pistol that I can control and manipulate adequately.
All Games
"Mag release require me to break my grip"
Laughs in European heel mag
The Badass Bassist Must be running a PMR 30, eh?
All Games Walther P1 actually. All I got at the moment. Looking to get a P99 soon
The main reason I’m looking for something with the European paddle mag release. I have to rotate my P320 with the small grip module to reach the mag release.
Will I buy a firearm if I pick it up and it does feel good?... No... For example I absolutely hate the feel of a Glock, but can I deploy it effectively?... Yes. Would I rather have my Springfield XD9 Mod2, Shield, or one of my 1911's. It's all about technique. If I had a choice, like most people do, I wouldn't buy something that doesn't fit my grip to begin with.
I love springfields. Springfield s&w Glock. One is round. One is square. One is in between. Pick whatever feels good. Stay in that family. Just don't knock others' choices. I think my wife is absolutely stunning. You may like more angled than round faces and may not think so. I'm the one that uses her not you ;) doesn't mean I can't get it up for someone that looks different.
Just like it doesnt mean I can't hit a shot with a glock just bc I prefer springfields
Definitely agree. As far as Glocks go, I know they're great guns, I'm just not a fan. Lol I don't knock em, I just don't like them. Lol
Perfectly said. I have owned many glocks and I just don't shoot them that well. If they work for you, great. I just prefer what works for me. Please, you "experts" on You Tube, don't tell me it's because I don't have the proper grip.
I know the feeling. I'm not that great with them either. Too many years with a plow handle in my hands. Lol I do pretty fair with a 1911... But I still find I shoot my 1851 colts best.
Rollin Jones that seems weird. Does that happen when you drive a different car or truck too? For example “I can drive the Chevy really well but if I get behind the wheel of a ford I’m all over the road and blowing through stop signs.” Either you’re a good driver or not, either you can shoot or you can’t.
@@rlsjunior797 whatever...
Jamie O’Connor that’s a great point, I’ll give it some thought.
Eric is scared of THE Paul Harrell. Lol
@TheWin, yeah no sh*t... Mr Paul with his Mr Rogers soft spoken personality is definitely someone you don't wanna mess with, lol.
Jazzman3121 lmao you aint lying!
@Frank, I just started watching Harrel's vids this week and as soon as I saw him shoot 3" barreled pistols through a chronograph at 7 yds without even blinking I knew he was formidable.
@TheWin, yes there is that!
TheWin200000 yeah hes fucking awesome and his channel is too legit for youtubers
If it doesn't fit, you must acquit.
J D yep
😉🤣😂
J D lol!
Found o.j.'s lawyer A
Lol
Sorry, No matter where I place my hands on a Glock, it still feels like a plastic brick. On the other hand (sic), Beretta APX feels awesome, M&P 2.0 feels decent as well.
Why is it that every time I see someone criticizing "hand-feel," it's a Glock fan-boy trying to recruit another cult member?
Super Awesome Cool Dude because we are part of a massive conspiracy that you just outed us on... 🤫
I KNEW IT! :)
Super Awesome Cool Dude Everytime I hear someone bitching about the feel of a pistol, it's the "brick in the hand", "bad grip angle" anti-glock stuff.
I own Glock and CZ pistols, I Iove them both. I don't think either one magically points better than the other.
Edit:...and Sig
Good for you, I guess? I'm not going to burn through a few cases of ammo trying to master a Glock when my CZ puts the bullets where I want them right out of the box.
Warrior Poet Society I agree with most points in the video, but I think feel is important. I like the way the M&P 2.0 Compact feels more than the Glock 19.
What’s wrong with buying what just feels better and deciding to stick with that platform?
I've been shooting all of my life and if I walk into a store to plunk down five hundred plus dollars for a gun, it better damn well be comfortable in my hand or you aren't selling me that gun.
goofyfoot2001 so you can’t shoot. Got it.
Have you actually been hitting anything your whole life?
With the experience you claim, you should pick up any compact or full size handgun and be proficient with it. Fix your grip and stop bitching.
You dont understand what he is saying. When you're spending hard earned money, you want to buy what is most comfortable.
When then I guess you'd better do your homework, eh bud?
Might need a new table after all those guns got thrown at it haha
Greetings from Kentucky: if you'll allow me to quote Kevin Michelowski of the USCCA...when talking about the selection of a first hand gun: "its a matter of fit, size and ease of use."
Frank Carvell...Also from Kentucky, and I have to say that this John fellow seems to go against what other experts say, and what companies have adapted as their modifications. Look at all the modular grip inserts, etc. out in the market.
Love Paul H
I'm a guy who has a genuine gripe with guns not working for me because my hands are HUGE. When I was a machinist at a manufacturing plant, it took three months for the safety director to find me some chemical gloves big enough. He ended up finding them in Sweden, where my people came from (makes sense I guess 🤷🏼♂️😂) and they were expensive. Palm a basketball? How about a bowling ball.... 😂 I literally don't feel safe firing some of these smaller concealed carry firearms. When your hand basically envelopes the entire gun, things aren't where they are supposed to be and accidents can happen. I remember looking at a Desert Eagle at a gun shop and the clerk said "holy crap, that gun looks like a 9mm in your hand". 😂 It was literally the only comfortable gun in the shop for me. 🤷🏼♂️ A lot of the 1911 models work okay for me, but soooooo many concealed carry firearms are just a "nope" for me. Some folks complain about their hands being too big for certain guns, but in my case, it's just a plain truth. 🤷🏼♂️ Us big guys just have nothing that's built "just for us". From guns, to cars and clothes, it feels like we're giants in Lilliput when it comes to all of these products. 🤣
I'm a newer shooter so I don't have the credentials to back up any claims. But I still have my opinions. And I'm right there with you. My fingers are so long that I feel the normal way people train to pull a trigger is hindering my accuracy progression ( I shoot low left). I'm going to try and used the middle of my index trigger next time and see if I get better results.
Ultimately, most people are averaged sized, and so the big guys don't get the proper training I feel we need. Especially using products that just aren't made for large handed people.
I have an FN 509 because it's ergonomic and fits with my hand better than most other guns (could be wider, but I'm happy). Imo it's flawed to suggest or have undertones supporting a weapon or any tool that has bad ergonomics. Bad ergonomics could cause a situation where serious injury or even kill someone. May people be holding a gun wrong? Yes, but that doesn't excuse manufacturers to say it's a utility there for blah blah blah...
Anyways, I'm with you bud!
Eric, you said a couple of times "(...) I don't know, it just fits my hand better" :-P
The gun should fit your hand, not vice versa.
Just ask professional skeet shooters.
Good thing your table is not glass
1st off Paul Harrell is the best gun guy on the internet, no bull no sales hype just great information, I have nothing against Glock the one I purchased was a 17L, My trigger finger was constantly scraping the trigger guard, I sold that gun. CZ, 1911's and revolers are just fine. Looking forward to a Sig p210. Glock did not fit my hand.
Sometimes it could be down to the person not having the understanding or vocabulary to convey what’s not working with a particular grip. And so the “this gun don’t fit my hand” could be them trying to express something they cant explain properly and are looking for some help
If he slammed my guns around like that I would have words. They are tools, but they are not hammers.
That dude sounds like a mop salesman at a country fair lol. Enjoyed the video .
Jeff Porto I also sell mops so if you need a good mop guy... 😉
John Lovell just joking, you made a lot of good points. And very true with hand fitment. Great video.
I don't care if the tool is a shovel. If I'm going to be doing a lot of work with it, one factor will be comfort. Sorry, I don't completely buy into the idea of "It's a tool, it doesn't need to fit your hand well." mentality. If the person doesn't know how to hold a gun at all, that's obviously a problem. If the person does know how to hold a gun, and doesn't like the way it feels, then let them buy the gun they like. Ergonomics does matter.
The wine tasting example was horrible. Still love the channel, but this video was a thumbs down for me.
fighton72
Exactly. The mark of an actual quality tool is build quality, material, and ergonomics. With so many brands and styles of pistols it makes no sense to pick an uncomfortable gun if an option that "feels" better exists. Feel is subjective obviously, but a gun you're comfortable with is a gun you'll perform better with.
I'll agree it's used as an excuse quite often, but it doesn't mean it's not a valid concern.
Goes on to saw "fit" doesn't matter, but grip angle does. Grip angle is a LARGE part of feel for most people. My Glock 20 is a compromise gun. I do have small hands, but it's the best compromise for the caliber. I can shoot it fine, but my M&P 2.0 or XD9, which I shoot equally well feels better and is more comfortable without even considering recoil.
fighton72 - And your comment only served to expose your need for gel filled triggers pads, angel-poop lubricated springs, and lavender scented bullets. Grow up snowflake, comfort is the stuff wusses are made of...
My wife is learning how to shoot, tried my
G17 and G19, Beretta, SW 686. Yes she can hold it and fire them all but
I'm 5'11 and she's 4'11 and 100lbs; she doesn't enjoy using them because she finds them difficult to grip. Her hand is smaller than mine, naturally, so got her a G48 which suits her better. She's not a wimp and can drive a dump truck at work if she had to, the steering wheel fits her hand, LoL.
I hate the glock grip angle I feel like it's to steep and I grew up shooting a beretta and Tokarev so I love the my M&P 2.0 compact and the texture on the grip feels great
Ever notice that a Glock's grip has a different angle on the front than the back? The front of the grip has the angle of the 1911 and the back has the angle of a Luger, resulting in a sway back that is the most awkward grip of any pistol I've fired, even worse in the compact models.
I never cared for a Glock, I much prefer the M9. That said I’m a revolver fan and most people I know hate the grip of a revolver.
Shotbytim once you train a little with a Glock you don't notice it at all
@@user-pv9pv4xf9c If you design a "handle" that people have to be trained how to hold, you suck at designing handles
There’s always that ray of light from the gun store ceiling when you pick up that handgun that just melts into your palm. 😂GRIPZONE
Only legitimate gripe to this is if your hand is too small to reach the trigger. I wear a medium size glove and some da/sa guns I can’t reach the trigger to get a proper grip. The beretta m9 fits my hand like a glove. Any handgun I can reach the trigger I can and should be able to shoot well.
Soylent Green this is a moot point my 12-year-old niece can shoot every gun I own, with proper training a lot of people realize that it’s not the gun it’s the person behind it. I had a video up for years of my son at seven years old shooting my Glock 19 no problem.
IrishSavage87 if your son or niece can shoot a cz 97b I will be impressed. I can’t get my finger on the trigger the length of pull is too long. I shoot competitively rifle and pistol and have shot since I was a kid doing quite well. Can’t change my hand size.
It’s not about comfort or blaming the gun. My Glock 32 simply doesn’t fit my hand. My fingers are too big for the grooves, and my pinkie finger hangs over the bottom. This results in my not being able to get the grip I NEED for quick shots and instilled confidence. If I’m shooting 357 sig and the gun is kicking hard, not having proper purchase on the weapon grip is detrimental.
I never got used to the glock grip angle…
Years ago, I was a young police officer and was required to switch from my duty pistol at the time, a Smith &Wesson 5906, to the new departmental pistol, the Glock 17. It drove me nuts for a long time because the Glock pointed really high for me. The range instructors all said it was my imagination or that I was holding the gun wrong. They also said a lot of other nonsense about how the Glock was the best handgun ever devised and that I was just not that good with guns in general and Glocks in particular, when I always had perfect scores on my qualifications. It took me a long time, carrying the Glock both on duty and off, to adjust to the grip to where I could get a natural point of aim with it. I would say that if you want, you can adjust to any pistol. I was just peeved and carried other guns off duty for awhile, and thus didn't make as smooth a transition as I should have.
John Dilday yes but if you had a choice you would go with SW. Why? Since it fit your hand better you naturally could shoot better.
No ones hand is the same and guns have different forms that differ so comfort does matter.
Training through garbage and overcoming is something you do when it's issued like in your case.
In the Army same thing, you had ARs that behaved temperamentally so you bear the hell out of them to make them work for you.
John Dilday Glocks do NOT “point high”.
they have a steeper grip angle than any other gun causing people to point high
What a treat to see two great gun guys working together!
If it doesn't fit your hand I'll take it!
MY LIFE IS A MEME MY LIFE IS PATHETIC same
I got what one guy called 'baby hands'. Not the way I'd put it, but I have a lot less discomfort with the subcompacts than most. Not to mention the Ruger Bearcat ;) When you are holding on with two fingers, it ain't much fun... You can shoot it, but you won't buy it.
The best part was watching Eric hide his tears every time you slammed his pistols down.
why do I feel like when people say this the most it's because someone hands them a glock
It's said in regards to Glock in an attempt to appear to have some kind of well-developed "taste" in firearms. Remember, most of the gun subculture is really just about collecting, not training, not shooting, not getting more proficient and lethal.
I'll guarantee no one says that holding a P30, CZ 75, 1911, or Hi-Power. The Hi-Power may bite them later though
I tell people all the time, comfortability is not the most important thing. It's *maybe* 3rd on the list. 1.) Reliability 2.) Purpose fit 3.) Comfortability. Is probably the order I'd put it. The first thing you should do when selecting a gun is find reliable brands. (No taurus, hi point, kel tec etc)
Next narrow it down based of the role the gun is going to fill. (i.e. concealed carry, range toy, purely home defense) the gun has to fit it's intended role. A Glock 34 may be super reliable and comfortable but it wouldn't fit the role of concealed carry for most. You would end up leaving it at home, which does you no good.
Once you've narrowed it down based off of reliability and purpose, you can now look at things like reliability and aftermarket/holster availability or warranties to help make your decision.
@@hansblitz7770 I was brand new and didn't like how Glocks felt. I had no exquisite taste in guns at that point. When I eventually shot one it wasn't bad at all but I really didn't like it the grip. It felt like I was holding a 2 x 4.
I totally agree with you guys. I've got big bear paws, and so I tend to avoid the smaller frames. Now, I *can* shoot them but it takes more concentration, more deliberate action, more mental control, to make my hits, than say, a full size handgun that natural slides right into my hand and meets all the touch points. And your point about smaller hands not reaching controls was spot on. Too often I hear carry the biggest gun you can, and it's not always the case if they can't fight effectively with it. Great video!
Glock engineers just rejoiced as they now have an excuse to keep on building guns with the ergos of a 2x4. I think grip comfort is imperative, especially considering the average shooter doesn't shoot for a living.
The shit Glock fanboys say to excuse Glock being the real antiquated design on the market these days is all. The reason why the aftermarket is so huge isn’t because owners are content with what they bought in the first place.
airbomb34 well, the aftermarket is cool if you like to mess with them. I'm jealous because I'm not a fan of Glock but at the same time I really wanna make my guns super cute by tinkering with them. I would have made mine Pink Perfection with extra bedazzles...
Hans Blitz I got Hi-Point Glahk 40 problem solver!! And what do you mean by copy? They all are polymer framed, striker fired (besides the security 9 which is a hammer fired), with a Browning locking system.... All of which Glock didn't invent.
Glock made the first Browing-Action, Polymer Striker fired gun which is what all of the plastic fantastic guns are. That combination. The Hi-Point is a Blowback though so it gets a pass, since that is more akin to the H&K VP70.
Polymer + Striker + Browning Action = Glock and its derivatives. It is really amusing to see the mental gymnastics one must play to believe that an M&P, VP9, Walther PPQ, CZ P10c, XD are somehow "totally different" than a Glock.
Really funny. Comes from retards with no understanding of engineering. Bubba-Hick American doesn't understand these things. He just wants to chug Busch Light and resort to emotional arguments.
Hans Blitz I think some could construe your inflammatory verbage as emotional. I'm really not sure who you're debating, because you're making claims that no one stated here...
I understand much of firearms engineering. Yes, Glock did some newer stuff but it didn't reinvent the wheel. I respect the design. But it followed others and others will follow it. Getting confrontational about that limits any kind of progress or improvement... getting fired up about critiques could be taken as an emotional argument.
Kind of a waste of a gripe. Grip matters, angle matters and ergo matters. There is a reason people shoot pistols with goofy looking ergo grips. There is nothing wrong with wanting a good feeling gun. That is the gun you will practice with, and if the grip isn't comfortable, shooting will become a chore. You want the best system for the job. A gun may be a tool, but there is a reason hammers, screwdrivers and shovels come in different sizes with different grips... Regardless, the way the grip feels, the angle and textures will without a doubt affect your trigger pull, making it inconsistent even with the correct grip. All grips are different, regardless if they look similar. aaaaaaaand there is my 2 cents.
d4walkline - I couldn't get all the way through your sniveling comment. Basically I get that you are a sensitive little flower that needs his mommy to rock him to sleep, and you also got your feelings hurt. So I deduce that you have all the tacti-cool crap on your Batman tool belt that makes you comfy when you go to the gun club and shoot clay targets with Biff.
@@unmalo2768 Do you have to work at being an asshole or does it just come naturally?
Walther PPQ M2 - fits like a glove, great trigger, good sight.
Glocks fit my hand ok but the trigger and sights do not let me shoot as well as it can shoot.
I would be pissed if someone was slamming my guns down like that
When I first saw this video was uploaded, I said this video is probably about glock.
I LOVE THIS!!
I just had a young lady who was going to go G43 b/c the G17/19 "didn't fit her hand". I held up my hand and her's is just slightly larger. I pointed out that she was planning to give up 33% ammo capacity per magazine and she had already qualified with that fuller sized grip as a PD intern.
She went w/ a Gen 5 G19.
18 minute glock commercial. I love John but he’s so all about glock he sounds like he’s forcing people into glocks. People have valid gripes about glocks and this video felt like it was just trying to delegitimize all glock complaints
when i go back and forth from my 1911 double stack back to a long slide glocks with slide riders it will jack me up for a couple mags every time. that angle change is a killer on time.
My thought is, if I’m going to put down $500-2000 on something, I want to get the one I like the best. If I don’t like how something looks, deal breaker. If I don’t like how it feels, deal breaker. There are dozens of good guns, why not buy the one that makes you not regret anything?
Simple as that
I don't entirely disagree with the video but I think an important point is overlooked. I certainly don't advocate choosing a gun based solely on how it feels in the hand, and I don't think anybody does. HOWEVER, all other things being equal, why not choose the gun that "feels" better? When I decided to buy my first handgun, I had already done tons of research, I was particularly looking at a Glock, FNH FNS, S&W M&P or Springfield XD. I was leaning towards the Glock because I wanted a 10mm, but I decided to check the guns out in person before ordering one.(I figured most shops would have a Glock but probably not a 10mm) I wanted to like the Glock, but I hated the feel of it, it has all the ergonomics of a brick, I didn't like the way the Springfield felt either. I think most would agree that any one of those choices would be good, and that they are all in the same ballpark in cost, reliability, etc. But if all the other things are relatively equal, why not choose on feel? I liked the FNS the best hands down, the M&P was a close second for me, I would have likely bought an FNS, but I wound up getting an M&P because I found some police trade ins for a great price. I get the point of the video, and agree up to a point, but to me it should still have SOME merit, namely, when all other things are equal, or close enough to equal to make little to no difference.
While I agree that a pistol is a tool and you adapt to it, not to you, there is something to be said for comfort. I am a decent shooter, I could use more practice but 1911's and most Glocks feel great to me while holding as apposed to a M&P or most Sigs. They also point well for me during a draw and use. All this to say use whatever feels good (grip) and you shoot well. To say comfort is not a factor I have to respectfully disagree.
I'm glad they touched on grip angle. I can go to the range and shoot everything from my Walther P-22 to my .500 S&W.
The biggest difference in all those guns is when the grip angle changes.
All the guns I use for daily carry have one thing in common.
When I pull them, I don't have to adjust for the grip angle.
That line made me subscribe to Paul's channel
Glock fan boys, you gotta love them. Their videos usually go something like this. Well I got the new Glock 99 gen. 56 and all I had to do to this gun is change the grips, trigger and the sights, man these guns are the best.
I don't see any 25 autos on the table just saying full size gun fits my hand better than a very small frame gun
Oi Missed12 Ortgeis for life.
When I was looking at a cc pistol I was looking at the shield but the grip with the short mag just barley did it for me so I didn’t like it. But I needed a pistol so I got it anyway. It’s not that bad, the pinky doesn’t have much strength anyway and if I squeeze they all make it. Just deal with it and it will be fine.
Love the bore axis mention - this is a nugget I’ve not heard or seen before. I have tiny hands and struggle to reach the trigger and get a good position under the tang. I am of the mindset that you adapt to your gun (as opposed to using tools or constantly changing your gun to FIT you and your potentially sloppy habits). I’ve shot guns since I was a little girl and my hands were even tinier then and all you can do is adapt. But that little golden nugget is going to help me in the near future. THANKS SO MUCH!
There are multiple reasons that I don’t care for glocks. Price, the slogan...”glock perfection “, and compared to what I do like, I don’t care for how they look. I know that shouldn’t...and doesn’t matter...but for the price and a quality set of sights AND, metal mags... I prefer the M&P pistols. But that’s just my opinion. One doesn’t really feel or fit better than the other I suppose.
Melon Rain I thought it was funny when he mentioned antiquated because that is what Glock has become in the US handgun market relying almost entirely on appeal to authority marketing rather than any innovation or better features.
airbomb34 ...yeah, that sounds about right.
M&Ps are a good choice because they're a re-branded Glock and are built with OK quality control. Unlike Canick or POS "XD" (LOL) pistols.
@@hansblitz7770 I like my Canik!!! Lol
A little tip that might help you out when people say it doesnt feel comfortable. When you learn how to properly hold a gold club, it is awkward as hell. It doesn't feel natural and is far from comfortable but you will immediatly notice the ball flies "straighter". In time, holding the club in that manner feels right, comfortable and you don't notice it anymore but your balls continue to fly straight.
I’ve heard Eric say multiple times. It doesn’t fit my hand or it fits good in the hand.
The Glock 27 and the Taurus PT740 were uncomfortable until I practiced with them. They are very small .40 caliber pocket pistols. Now, I love them.
John Lovell, no you just aren't holding the LCP right! Hahaha
I’ve shot rifles for 60 years. We bought our first pistols about 18 months ago. As complete novices, my wife chose the Baretta M-9 and for an old woman with zero experience, she is a natural. If we have a home invasion, I’d expect the intruder to have multiple hits close together. And I love how her tiny little hands handle that “huge” grip that so many men complain about on the M-9. We now have an M&P Plus. She’s even better with it.
WOW, I guess all the companies that ship their guns with changeable palm straps should have ask the glock fan boys first.
I've always had a saying about my snap on tools,my guns,my truck or whatever i'm using. "I'm not gonna go out of my way to abuse it, but i'm not gonna be afraid to use it".
When he dropped the gun with optics 😔
mitch thompson but I was like.... PARTY 🎉🎈 🕺🎤🔥
If it can ride on a pistol slide and endure that much shock for thousands of times, it can handle being dropped 4 inches onto a wooden table
Pulease! If it can’t take that little bang,it will never make it past a few shots
If someone says "it doesn't fit my hand" ask what they mean. Can you not reach the controls? do you find it harder to control than others you've shot? is it actually painful to shoot? Those are criticisms you can analyze and determine if it's actually the gun's fault or the shooter's.
My wife and I (both amateurs) went shooting recently and rented 5 different guns to compare. We didnt like the M&P (double stack), the Springfield XDS was ok, we both loved the M&P Shield, we both liked the P320, and we both hated the Glock. We had different reasons for each but it wasn't "it doesn't fit my hand".
More like, guns that dont fit my budget...let alone my hand...
I bought my first Pistol , Taurus PT 24/7 G2C 9mm, because when I picked it up it felt right and I was naturally point it straight without having to adjust sights. Hadnt shot any pistols previously except one or two shots out of my brothers SDVE 40
Well I do prefer a full size compared to subcompact, fits my hands better. And longer barrel usually means more accurate.
Eric is thinking "Dang John dont throw my guns down so hard..." lol
How do you know John is an instructor in use of tools? The way he throws the guns back down on the table... which makes Eric cringe a bit, lol.
David MN I thought I was the only one that noticed that
Lol, KERCHUNK! hehehe. Muh RMR!
arrogant prick
throwing someone's tools around like that.
He was a US Army ranger and he sees guns as tools and he mentions in most videos about how you should be able to be harsh with your tools and he probably built the habit.
Eric was just exposed to the retail side of the gun world gun shop guys are like that
John: Perfect segway from the wine discussion, to "this jug doesn't fit my hand"! Still laughing. Thanks for the quick grip lesson also. I am currently working on that aspect of shooting.
How is grip angle not part of "fit my hand"? Your Sacred cow is very clearly a GLOCK
Benjamin Ponzer Grip angle doesn’t really have much to do with how the gun “fits your hand”. That has more to do with what platform you have more experience on and what you’re used to.
@@Jessernaut4556 yes the angle very much Is part of fitting to your hand. All ergonomics are part of hand fitment
Benjamin Ponzer I disagree. Grip angle has nothing to do with “fitting” certain hands. If anything, it’s about disliking the way your wrist is canted/straightened. In that sense, it comes down to preference. Again, nothing to do with “Example A doesn’t fit my hand”.
Feeling of comfort is a huge plus especially people with larger hands.
I like to think of John as a tactical philosopher
Ian Cornell 😊
Ian Cornell You mean a warrior poet?
. . . I had to.
I was one of those people that once focused more on how the gun fit my hand and did not like how Glocks felt BUT then I started shooting more and working on my grip and now shooting my Glocks are more natural than shooting my SIGs. Training and practice are key being perficient and when your life depends on it fractions of a second can matter.
As soon as John decided that "all guns basically feel the same to everyone, and if they don't, you're basically holding them wrong" even though Glock feels like a fucking Lego brick and every other major gun feels better in the hand to most shooters... Well, he lost a lot of credibility IMO. Comfort is PART of bottom line performance. Some guns just don't feel right to certain people and it can show in their shooting. And I'm no veteran shooter, and I can shoot any gun just fine if you give me a mag full with it, including Glocks. But don't tell me that if I don't feel comfortable, that I CAN shoot it to it's FULL potential. I don't buy that for a second.
So, the take-away: hand fit isn't an excuse for poor technique. I agree. I also agree it's often used as an excuse.
With that said, there's no reason to choose an uncomfortable gun if a comfortable version exists in the size, caliber, etc you're looking for.
Yeah, holding a gun isn't natural, but neither is the bulk of hobbies, tools, or day to day tasks. Ergonomics is ALWAYS a concern and it's the mark of a good company to make their products as "natural" to use as possible. If hand fit wasn't a valid concern we could eliminate 75% of the guns on the market. That isn't the case because certain things work better for certain people.
Guy then goes on to mention all the ways gun-fit DOES matter
There are so many good guns out there. Why should I put up with a gun that doesn't "fit my hand," just because my instructor happens to be Glock fanboy? I'm spending the money. I'm the one that has to shoot it. I want a gun that is reliable AND shoots comfortably and naturally.
I really wanted to like the CZ P-09. I read all the reviews and by the numbers it was great. But as soon as I picked it up I knew I couldn't buy it. Even with with the smallest backstrap, I can't reach the trigger and keep the gun straight. There's just too much distance for me. It didn't fit my hand.
1. Great content as always. 2. ‘Better’ is different than ‘does not’. Especially if coming from a competitive shooter who is trying to shave .01 seconds or 1/8”. 3. You guys work really well together. 4. Rough? Have you seen any of the meltdown videos?
the old "one size fits all" argument that comes up in many things. when in reality one size always fits none.
I have had a glock a few years ago and never really cared for the way it “fit my hand” and switched over to m&p and have loved it since then. I feel like it does fit more comfortably and I do tend to shoot better but from that time until now I have realized I really don’t know much about hand guns. I’m really not amazing at shooting hand guns. I grew up hunting since a little kid so I can drop anything with a rifle but had very little hand gun experience. So I’m just now starting to look into how I am doing things and trying to get better.
Oh god bore axis and grip angle. We’ve entered into the tactical deep zone for sure. How did people survive prior. 🤣
My most natural pointing gun is my Luger P08. My next would be my CA Undercover with the polymer grips that are on it. My Ruger GP100 factory grips are still comfortable but my older hands cannot handle the recoil of magnum rounds anymore. My favorite and the one I have the most time on is my 92FS.