BLOAT is killing your FPS
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- Опубликовано: 15 июн 2024
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Is your PC not like it used to be? Games, apps, and BLOAT could be robbing you of performance, so we’re gonna figure out just how much overhead is used to run all those background apps.
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CHAPTERS
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0:00 Intro
0:58 Test Methodology
3:17 Initial impressions
5:23 tasty SSD test
6:35 Benchmarks
7:49 Takeaways
8:55 Cleanup 
Наука
"If we had been running 8 gigs of RAM and a quad core CPU, we might have seen very different results"
I see those results every day
I feel ya, used to play pubg on a 4 core and 8 gigs. It was a pain in the ass.
2 core 16GB ddr3 laptop reporting in
How about 8gigs of ram an i 5-3210-M and integrated graphics?
4gb and 2 cores laptop goes br brr
@@kim-hendrikmerk4163 how about playing beamng on an intel pentium g645 and 10 GB ram? :^
Why this testing wasn't done with the "steam average computer" I'll never understand
This is a really good point. Everytime a youtuber does a test like this, it's with high end hardware. And it would be much more interesting with average hardware, or even low end hardware. I would imagine that the results would show much bigger performance gains on the clean build.
Definitely would have a higher impact. If it's only 4% difference due to background tasks taking up 4% of resources on a high end machine, that might be 10-20++% depending on how low we go.
He even mentions it himself but he can't put his 1000 watt sponsored powersupply to a gtx 750ti system right ? xD
One of the main reasons is to run the latest games, another is to give sponsors a reason to support the channel. I agree that there should be someone out there that does testing with low-medium setups, but it needs to be done from the very start and stay that way for consistency (it's not as interesting as you imagine).
exactly this was a waste of 11 mins. what did we learn? absoultely nothing other than what was obvious
You cannot do this test without focusing on the 1% lows. Average fps is never affected to the same degree as the frame drops
TBH if you don't run out of RAM it is ok (unless you game on 2/4 core CPU)
@@ALPHABYTE64 idk I'm thinking of reinstalling Windows on my system and I have a 6-core i5-9600k that's bottle-necking my gaming ambitions XD
@@likafoss bruh
@likafoss3677 I only play 2 games with friends. PUBG and Lethal company. PUBG hits 100% usage on my i5-8600k and I can't figure out why it's the only game that bogs down that hard.
@@likafoss SAME i have the same exact cpu and its the only thing holding me back bruh i swear
As someone who grew up with a bad computer, I've mastered keeping my Windows running fast whist still being kinda cluttered. Even now as an adult with a good computer, I still regularly use the same tricks even though I don't have to.
How you clean your windows pc man
@@nitinarora6673 install windows with language : World then its nearly already debloated just need to remove a lil bit then its done.. But you can go further and remove unnecessary windows features you don't use and disable useless windows services, you can even tweak windows to high performance mode (removing the fancy feature) change power plan, remove Storage indexing etc. etc. that will gave you best result.
I do agree with OP, when you have previous weaker system all you can do is to tweak the system software side since you don't have a way (money) to upgrade the hardware side.
But even getting a more powerful high end PC now the habit of optimizing Windows never changes and since its a higher end i can now also tweak BIOS to further optimize the hardware side.
What’s ur tricks
Haha i can totally relate, grew up using my parents potato computer. Always enamored with gaming pcs etc, finally bought one some years ago. Helps to appreciate a fast, sharp pc
The TLDR: With a high end PC you won't be able to really tell a difference. The lower the PC specs, the more you'll feel it.
The difference was massive when going from single core to dual core back in the day.
Thanks
Then buy a console.
@@omegacon4 ?
And that is why I have 64GB of RAM
"Oh no, my render takes 8 seconds longer and CSGO has 20 less FPS!"
I really think you should have tested this on a lower spec machine.
@@mariat5860 Nah bish, it's NNN.
man has his priorities
@@Raskov1945 Praise you Brother, and may you reach the ultimate Goal 🤲
@@Mansory811 May God accompany us on this mighty journey.
@@Raskov1945 Amen.
Closed multiple apps in task manager. Checks: they have all restarted themselves.
you should do this test again with low end hardware and even the same ssd, but make differant partitions because even the ssd`s can have a slight differance on performance
I get an "activate windows" popup that drops me from 144 to 120 or 90... not even a hardware issue.. and i have a license
OneSyncSvc managed to cause severe lag by 100%-ing an SSD recently and I don't even use MS People/Contacts/Email/OneDrive...
@@Lodinn The amount of times I've seen random unused Windows apps somehow taking up more than 50% of my system resources is ridiculous
@@chandler1086 turn off background apps, that helped me
@@TheBorees they’ll just start up again without you knowing, like what linus here showed, I say just delete them
windows speeding ticket. 'oy mate yer screen is going too fast'
The test feels rather pointless given this was tested in a setup that will tank anything you throw at it. Tests like these should be done in more grounded setups, mid or even low range computers, *there* is when even the most minor results make a difference.
That was the point, to see if modern machines could handle background crap without any impact. Lower range machines will of couse be worse
I will say older because my 10600k just doesn't not care about apps running in the background like msi afterburner
@@Mavis847 still should have gone with the steam average PC IMO, or hell test multiple systems.
I know that's not their kind of content and they have so much crap going on they only have so much time for testing, but it feels like this was the wrong kind of video for them if they couldn't put in the time to get more data.
In the end it felt like this was a waste of time. It was a waste of their time and a waste of ours.
Yeah like what's the point of using a 3080 for a test like this??? lmao even if you dropped frames in the double digits it's still going to be over 100fps in almost every game. They should have done the test with a more average build.
@@MrRinre not necessarily, a 3080 isnt going to carry the pc if ur playing a cpu heavy game. And uhh theyre using an intel cpu so it could fall behind.
been watching you before I built my first pc. that was 2015 ever since have absolutely loved your content. throwback to whole room water cooling lol. I'm not NEARLY up to date on computer componets/tech anymore but always watch your videos regarding new gpu/cpu. Love you Linus!!! wont stop watching you untill you stop uploading
CC Cleaner and McAfee should be included in the thumbnail they slow down your PC a lot more than they help, and so can be said about many other cleaning software or AVs...
@@choppings54 absolutely, these softwares mostly make it worse.
But what if you're stupid? What's the best compromise between performance usage and protection?
I'd go for a paid MalwareBytes personally (even though I don't use anything)
@choppings54 Think of the innocent mac users!
@@iluvpandas2755 Well they're kinda ignorant, you gotta be to buy a T2 chip / Apple Silicon Mac.
You gotta not know about Apple's unethical engineering, how they are building so that a consumable part's death bricks multi thousand dollars machine...
the best cleanup tool are: windows clenup and removing unnecessary and big files..
@@techgregory5253 best tool is your brain lol
Much better than any bloatware you could install
In the old days I had a .bat file that taskkilled a whole bunch of things I didn't need for gaming and I'd launch it before running my games - was actually pretty useful at the time
i still do that lol
Thats just what Razer cortex does lmao
@@cherrypepsi2815 razer cortex is bloat ware
Man you made me feel old
True, I still have the OCD of keeping back ground processes clean since those days lol
I’m just laughing at the comments absolutely ripping Linus apart 😂 love your content Linus
I can't even tell when my fps drops because it's always under 50
hi
Linus being a FAILURE (in asian accent)
Fancy seeing you here.
Hello, also your videos are hilarious
I can definitely say, ending a few processes makes my pc go from being able to run games at to ultra smoothly, always worth giving task manager a check if you want the best performance
what are this processes you are talking about?
I tune up computers for a living, if youd like me to reply to this comment :)
@@frazho4eg Anything non essential or but avoid anything windows critical.
when I was on a quad core I5 this was true but I cannot get a single FPS worth of improvement from debloating now that I'm on a 12 core Ryzen CPU. I'm wondering if the difference in the video was down to a lack of RAM because 16gigs is barely enough these days for gaming and multitasking. (If anyone has any tips for tuning up windows further I'd like to hear it)
when I turn on my computer these days I end up with 150-200 processes and 3-5 gigs of RAM usage, then when I launch everything I could possibly ever need open I get 200-250 processes and 8-10 gigs of RAM usage
I see zero differences in FPS numbers with and without overlays (rivatuner, geforce, steam fps counter, reshade fps counter)
zero differences after running win 10 debloater
zero difference with and without 100ish chrome tabs and 20 or so extensions installed on top of chrome
I've even started disabling a few microsoft processes in msconfig but there's probably still a few more I can turn off.
(If anyone has any tips for tuning up windows further I'd like to hear it)
@@jordanlazarus7345 Honestly, outside of ensuring you have enough RAM for whatever you're doing (either by killing processes, adding more RAM, or both), disabling unnecessary startup applications, and maybe activating "Game Mode" in windows (which effectively just automatically kills processes when you start up a game), there's not much you can do other than just upgrading your PC. Windows is pretty stubborn about what it runs, with or without your permissions, and you can't change much. Running things on an SSD, especially your OS, will help a ton across the board as well.
I discover that I'm using almost 15 GB out of 16 GB Ram without even playing game, just using Firefox, Google Chrome and few other things. I'm using over 90% of my ram without playing a game, no wonder I have stuttering and freezing while I play games.
This is why I've been watching channels like this since I was like 13, I'm not the smartest tech guy, but I've learned quite a bit from passively watching.
Bro that's kinda serious. Which programs take you more memory?
It’s time for a fresh install at the very least nothing running on startup.
why would you use two different web browsers at the same time? lol
nice lie
"Is bloatware killing your gains!?" -AthleanX
Lmao
it more like "BLOATWARE is Killing your Gains!"
Had to like and make it even so you dont get unbalanced likes
my exact thought reading the title! Nice to see fellow gym bros here
Thought the same!
This reminds me of the legendary "Game Accelerator" which used to close every background process (including explorer, even your start menu disappeared) and changed the windows theme from the XP one to the Windows 95 one. It was the only way I could get acceptable performance in some games at the time. Good times.
You just took me back. I forgot about that
Was so young, I thought I broke the computer, too scared to tell my dad 🤣
I used the hell out of that little tool. I think I was still on Vista with only 4GB of RAM at the time, so it was a huge boost in performance. Like downloading RAM lmao
@@mastafull Don't use Vista..
@@EikottXD "was"
5:20 it says windows explorer but it's actually just explorer. It contains the desktop, taskbar including the programs on them and that is why it has the restart option instead of end task. It gives you the option to restart it if it glitched. In older versions you could end explorer and you would just have a black screen with all the program windows that were not minimized on screen, without the taskbar it is much harder to get access to minimized windows. If cmd was open you could start it back up by typing explorer
You can still kill it in CMD though. I do not recommend. You literally lose all screen function.
I have a high end pc. I have my chrome open with a lot of tabs, launchers (steam, epic, etc), AV, recording software, live wallpaper (wallpaper engine) chat apps like discord. All of this stuff and I don’t see any drop in performance.
This works on a low end pc but high end, don’t even worry about it
This video would've been more useful if the tests were done on the average Steam user's computer.
Lmao
I agree, but the aim of the video was to show how it affects newer hardware PCs, not the most used ones.
I disagree, if you mean that it would had simulated ''average Linus viewer's scenario. Because i think average Linus techtips viewers PC is a bit above Steam average. I mean this is tech-channel and most PC people don't care so much about tech. This channel's viewer average CPU core count would be 6 cores, maybe? But as an average PC experiement, steam spec-PC would had been cool.
But we all know, that with quad core you can't have much backround softwares while gaming. My bro has 4/4 CPU, and with someting like Warzone + Google chrome it was a nightmare. He had 8gb RAM tho, maybe that was bigger cause.
agreed i was having trouble with CoD:Warzone, the game would barely hit 70fps on a GTX 1080 and low settings, sometimes it would lag terrible, after inspecting the task manager i noticed the ram usage was up to 15gb and my HDD usage which is only for storage(files movies photos etc) 100% after some digging found out my W11 was using it for the virtual memory after switching the virtual memory to the SSD the game hits +100 fps on high settings w/o problems
You should really do this on Dell laptops. Amount of FPS gains with fresh windows is insane.
yeah i need a fresh install on Windows after using Linux for a while, i swear if someone told me it wasn't my laptop i'd agree
I'd be interested in a comparison between DELL and HP, I feel like HP ships way more annoying bloatware out of the box. (both are really bad when it comes to preinstalled shit though)
@@dxlusi0nal Yeah, in my experience, HP's "helpful" software is anything but.
oh god yes. averaging 100+fps on a fresh windows install on my dell laptop. slowly decreases to 40 average as time goes on. absolutely crazy
@@UncleKennysPlace Fuck yes, i did a clean windows install on a neighbor hp laptop, the performance difference was insane, like, HP's bloat is so bad, the boot time went from literally minutes to about 45 seconds (mechanical hard drive)
0:57 Is there a BURP at the end of the jingle ?!?! 🤔
windows too fat
@@Persvicxisn't windows ntfs? 🤓
@@mrnecroticwell u got me lol
I would really like to see a quad core 8gb test since those are the only people who 5 or 6 fps would actually make a difference to
Linus has become the tech equivalent of ATHLEAN-X where everything is killing your FPS instead of your gains
LOL
LMAOOO
Yes i did not expect to see someone here who watches him
I read the title in Athlean X's voice and was looking for this comment
They even look a lot
Why didn’t you try this on a midrange or lower end machine? The impact would probably be notably bigger
Edit: typo
Yeah, that would have made a lot more sense.
I agree 100%. I've been screaming for years when people say "All you need is a 6 core CPU for gaming (or 4 once upon a time). Look at these benchmarks!"
Except those benchmarks are run on a cleanroom benchmark setup install. What about the real world? In my experience the extra couple cores make a big difference by the time you got 40 chrome tabs, Nvidia game recording, discord + Crisp, etc etc.
especially since in their particular usecase the difference was literally "I have to guess which is clean and dirty either way" while in a real world case, with a not completely decked out PC the case might actually be "Oh there is a realistic difference between 60 FPS and 47FPS"
No, doing it on a lowend machine is like preaching to the choir. A midrange, I understand and agree. It's what most people are rocking, so it's what we'd want to see and want tested.
remember no nut november
would love to see this revisited with 12th gen with its P and E cores
These are the kind of tests that people want to see - thanks for the efforts. Maybe we could try this with a 12900K, 5950X - theoretically the extra cores should chip away at those background tasks? Especially the 12900K, the E-cores were kinda touted for exactly this purpose
still worth noting the dirty drive is still a clean install. When your Pc get's real dirty is when your one drive is syncing, your corsair ICUE is controlling your custom RGB keyboard set-ups, your Afterburner is controlling your custom fan settings etc etc.
This rig is more like me. Fresh yet dirty in mind but it yet has to turn real dirty
exactly I real dirty install is one that has been running for a couple years.
A real dirty drive would be one that has been run for years with no maintenance. No drive optimizations, no disk cleanups run, file fragmentation, left over junk from things previously installed then uninstalled. For a proper test they should give the “dirty” drive to my friend to use for a few weeks, he’ll probably throw in a couple trojans and other malware by the time he’s finished lol. Now _that’s_ dirty!
I resetted and reinstalled windows the other day and the pc is smooth again
@@jigz7337 my current rig has been running almost 24/7 since 2015. and it's still mostly fine. I say without knowing how it would run after a fresh install lol.
@@ADMNtek my pc specs actually perform like theyre supposed to now, had a lot of bloatware
Hey LTT, could you start adding frametimes when doing these tests?
Most of the time having "low" fps is fine, but it's the micro stutters that become annoying.
Exactly. I'd rather like to play at a constant 30 or 40fps, rather than constantly switching between 60 and 10 every minute
isnt that what the 99%ile data shows?
@@AwkwaBear Although it would be nice if the listed frame time statistics as well, any inconsistencies in the frame times will also impact the 99% minimum frames. The further the 99% framerate confidence interval is from the mean, the less consistent your frame rate is (and therefore frame times). For example, the CS:GO chart shows the 99% minimum is 40.4% lower than the mean for the clean and 41.9% lower for the dirty. That means that the dirty run had a slightly larger standard deviation (the frame times varied more) than the clean run. If you do a benchmark and your 99% minimum fps is very similar to your average fps, then you know you have very consistent frame times 99% of the time. You could go even further with 99.9% frame minimums. In terms of actual frame time numbers, you can work out that 99% of frames had a frame time of 3.97ms or lower for the clean and 4.27ms or lower for the dirty based on their 99% framerate minimums. It's all the same info just in a different form.
The only extra info I'd like to see is a frame-time vs frame graph, since that can give you info amount spiking frame times that the average and 99% stats might not show.
Absolutely need graphs of frame time data on performance tests. It's possible to get used to a low frame rate, it's not at all possible to adapt to frame time spikes. Even just a couple frames every few seconds taking 2x time feels terrible. Like legitimately headache inducing bad.
This is the comment I was looking for. This is the real data that matters for how good or bad a game feels, and it's frustrating that it's not more commonly acknowledged over simply just fps. There's no way the folks at LTT aren't aware of this, it's just not as buzzwordy and search term friendly as fps.
that video has been exactly on my background on auto play before I heard about multi task staff and then opened it with face scared by your prediction skill😂
I’ve been struggling with Windows 11 goofing up all my resources and killing the responsiveness of my Samsung Notebook7 Spin. At one point, I was so pissed off that I replaced it with Fedora 36. Now I’m gonna try to run clean windows for gaming and fedora for my daily workflow. Thanks for the advice!
I actually would like to see this test redone with more average components and also with lower end components. It's obvious that having more bloat will affect your performance, but I'm more interested in how badly it affects the performance. Is it worth it to go crazy with closing things down or not.
The point is it does affect your performance, no matter how powerful your PC. So only install apps that you really need, and if you're not getting the FPS you want in a particular game with your particular hardware, close apps that you're not using to see if you can get a bit more performance back.
Sorry, but no. This was a cartoonish test. Does having programs running in the background make a miniscule difference? Sure.
Does anybody who actually knows how to use a computer have Skype and multiple *bad* antivirus programs running at startup? No, of course not. They had to make up a totally dumb scenario to make the video dramatic enough.
@@NimjaIV yes but case in point, it would much more relatable and please the low end pc enthusiast which actually a whole lot of Linus viewers
I have an old Dell desktop from 2011 I decommission it mine I got my MSI prebuilt from Walmart. I recently learned you can capture the gaming PC with a capture card it's less stress on your gaming computer. I recommission my Dell it takes forever to boot up I uninstall unnecessary programs programs I don't use anymore and just garbage files I don't use. I'm not paying $100 again for my editing software
Yeah exactly, I literally don't get why they use a baller pc for this. 3% for this pc is nothing, for the other pc it would be way more....
"If we had been running 8 gigs of RAM and a quad core CPU, we might have seen very different results"
Me who just bought an i7 1165g7 quad core and 8gb ram last month: *Why must you hurt me this way*
Same bro I bought that too in September
my laptop has 2 cores and 12 gigs, tbh it runs Minecraft alright so idc too much
@@someonerandom704 minecraft is a light game
@@someonerandom704 Can't a potato run minecraft?
@@criptin4075 yes but the game is still horribly optimized. It's basically completely reliant on single core performance, so even if you have some uber fancy graphics card, not much will change.
can you make a video that shows whether or not dual monitors affect FPS in game, and how different it is with just a single monitor (if that video hasn't already been done)
when you force close applications, they can often restart themselves, causing a greater drag on the pc for a while. Windows sucks for actually closing programs
It actually doesn't if you're remotely competent at using software or reading words. Literally a few tabs over in task manager, there's a tab titled "services"
@@flyingtentacle7631 yeah the 63 people who liked my comment are all incompetent. durrr
5:20 Windows Explorer is responsible for the taskbar and a couple other parts of the Windows GUI. It's always supposed to be running and if you click "Restart," it will refresh your taskbar. It is not necessarily Windows bloatware.
underrated comment, how do they not know about that?
Yeah its basically your entire desktop except the wallpaper
Not anymore. Windows 11 Start and taskbar are WinRT BS and their own process
Yeah, it's pretty shocking Linus didn't know. I was probably 8 when I made this discovery.
@@AlLiberali how is WinRT BS i could say Win32 is BS (this i the runtime most of apps are running under still)
"Bloat is killing your FPS" - "no noticeable difference"
Why, Linus? It doesn't have to be like that.
It does though. Clickbait is the game.
1
@@ryno4ever433 Like if they needed to clickbait anymore at this point of popularity
Bloat on average kills 4 frames🙂
@@ryno4ever433 it causes people to not watch important videos
"I'm disappointed in myself, my family" lmao don't be disappointed in your family bro lmao that's funny as hell.
Software test suggestiin when dealing with performance comparasions : please also add a "minimum specs" low-end pc configuration to the test. Thankss ❤️
finally. gaming
Drop avp men
Why only 6 likes
shut franzj tirgerbot vac ban
We was expecting that, don't we?
go play with hougoughavhe (jeff)
What I've found is that percent CPU usage and percent memory are basically irrelevant; It's some complicated crap involving branch prediction, or core handoffs, or hard drive access, or audio processing priority offloading, or particle effects queuing up in the GPU, or shifting disk caches, something that doesn't show up on task manager, that causes EXTENSIVE micro-stutter and macro-stutter when trying to multitask. "Why did the whole render just freeze for 1/2 second?" "Why does this only happen when a browser is open?" "Why can I run the game fine at 80fps right up until a pitched battle when there are frames that cost several seconds to render?"
Same, recently noticed that hardware acceleration in discord was behind micro stutter in valorant.
You just accurately described what we all think or wonder or don't know how to put into words. "My benchmarks are all fine but something is WRONG!" Nicely put.
Exactly, they should use perfmon instead of tskmgr
This. Absolutely this. Unless you're seriously into the IT field, diagnosing a performance problem is way more complicated and unpredictable than most think.
Just read "Modern Operating Systems' by A. Tannenbaum and you'll have all your answers there.
Basically it's all about IRQs. You access disk data via IRQ, you communicate with the GPU via IRQ. Your keyboard is causing IRQs.
Basically anything to do with talking to other components means IRQ.
5:22 „what is windows explorer doing, I don‘t even have it opened“ lol
Ui elements like the taskbar and desktop are part of explorer.exe
5:20 Your Desktop and taskbar are also part of the explorer so you don't necessarily need to have it open just for it to suck some resources
"I don't even have windows explorer running"
I guess the taskbar and desktop went to get milk then.
😂😂😂😂
The best part is "what is explorer doing"
Man, that ruined my trust on Linus tech wisdom.
reminds me of back when I killed the task. fortunately it restarts itself after a while
Tails what are you planning on that bench
Before the updated Age of Empires II having explorer.exe running would mess with the ground textures in Windows 7. I have task killed explorer.exe on computers I tried fixing that were extremely slow.
You should test this on a more middle tier hardware, not so many people have a 3080 or an i7, more like a 1660 super and an i5 - r5
yep that'd be perfect because if the difference is much greater, it means my 2 core cpu is getting killed HARD.
I have a ryzen 5500 and Vega graphics lmao
i have a 1070ti and a i7 and yet i had a 1050ti with a i5 once. but if you say so.
I have an i3 and no graphics card
What are you, a low spec gamer subscriber?
it would be really nice if you perform the same test on a quad core cpu and 8 gb ram
So is there any recommendations on how to go about dealing with these "situations"? Bare metal virtualization, optimization profiles, configure app-permissions?
Linus, this REALLY should have been done with completely AVERAGE hardware - most people don't have 6-12 cores, most people don't have a 30-series RTX card, most people don't have 3200mhz RAM, most people ... the list goes on. A lot of us would much prefer a video about reducing bloatware on the "steam average computer", and speeding up crap on older laptops/machines!
Well a mid tier new system would either be 4/8 or 6/12 core/threads and 3200mhz ram is now common with new builds. And if the gpus were available a 3060 would be plausible.
yea you abolsutely right, but hey, say thanks he did that test with a 11700K instead of a 5900x... because I can tell you with the 5900x the differences are even less significant than the actual showcased results of this test.
i did a similar test back on last year after the 5900x was released and I got it myself (paired with a 3080 and 64 gb of 3600mhz cl16 ram), and the differences never go above 2% with the mentioned cpu. And no matter the amount of junk you run at background.
Thx for the warning so I don't have to waste my time on the video
Windows task manager showed the memory running at 2133 mhz, which means their uber fast 3600 cl14 ram did not have the xmp profile loaded anyway
What kind of pleb does not have 6 cores. lol
"What's Windows Explorer doing? I don't even have it open!"
Would've thought Linus knew that explorer is the shell. It runs the Taskbar and Start menu among other things. Not just when you open folders 🤔
but then you'd have to finally face the reality that windows is still running the nt kernel and is just prettifying explorer every version
I mean I don't know if this is normal or still a thing, but when i force closed it using task manager by task bar vanished until I restarted lol
@@kingoftherevolution4855 it's normal :)
its like finder on Mac
right? i knew this as a kid. i thought the same as him and closed it and saw the taskbar dissapear
3:10 i stg i was watching this as i was playing Minecraft im not even joking lmao
LOL
Awesome test. I’ve been wondering this since I was like 5
I would looooove to see a video of these tests on a 4 core 8gig ram setup. And, me being picky, id have liked to see these tests done on 1080p and 1440p to really show numerical differences in performance, just cuz a lot of people still run 1080p. And cuz id wanna be sure its actually a bigger difference 🤣
I think you're just talking about your specific setup
@@OperaVanDubels I'd actually like to see something similar as well. 1080p is still the dominate gaming resolution, and ~54% of gamers have ram amounts other than 16 gb. I'd like to see lower increments tested.
Yeah 1080p 240hz ftw
Vote UP!!!
"Steam" is supposed to know what the average computer specifications are.
You should have tested it on weaker machines as well, since those are the ones who will be most affected.
25% of people are using 8GB of RAM and 5% are using 4GB.
While not majority, its still a significant number of people.
i did, i have a 8GB laptop, GTX950M, i5, on a fresh install of windows after switching from Linux, i installed BF4, it played so smooth i thought it wasn't the same laptop
good point
No, 2gb is where it's at
Using Different CPU would have matter much... and not a recent one. They should try back with other CPU / RAM config much alike i5 9th w16GB.
@@therandomguy1701 Open a single Electron app and those 2 gigs are gone, lol.
I like the music at the start of the video, it reminds my of early game menus like Gran Turismo on PlayStation 1 or even some games on Dreamcast lol
One thing I've found is icons on the desktop can slow things down. More so for cheap laptops and systems older than like 8 years.
Read it as BLOAT is killing hour gains lol. AthleanX in a nutshell
We need a crossover episode. Have Linus check his muscle imbalances
@@iomaelstrom5681 Yeees. Let Linus take over for Jesse for an episode lol
Yes lol
hahaha yes I thought about this too
Same🤣🤣
Me with a bare minimum pc: "You merely adopted force closing, I was born in it, moulded by it"
@RASEL.. 💋 its No Nut November, sweetheart.
Yeah that was me using my windows vista laptop until a couple years ago
@RASEL.. 💋 Not this month Satan
I think Glary Utilities is useful and It only need running when you are cleaning stuff and managing auto-opening new app and scheduled tasks
Can you make a video on how to setup windows 10, installing drivers, installing softwares, important settings because this has a great demand
Just like Linus mentioned, I would LOVE to see how much having a "dirty" pc would affect gaming performance if that PC was actually a really low end one.
I am running a dual core CPU, 12 Gb of RAM DDR3, an HDD with no SSD, and on board graphics. Small difference could REALLY matter. I would like to see just how much it would actually make a difference.
It'd make a significant one. You'd be running the same software with half (or quarter? Idk 11700K specs) of the cores.
For example, if I saw 5% background usage on my 5900X, I'd expect some process to have bugged out or an update to be running. Whereas on a dual core with the same per core performance, that could be 25-30%. That'd for sure be a bigger performance hog.
Bruh if nothing else, you should really get a cheap SSD. Your life would be so much better.
@@MrRinre Cheap SSD's aren't a thing depending on the country. And the ones you do find have no DRAM cache, which you can guess goes as fast as a 7200RPM Hard Drive
@@polytelus umm yeah u can get SSDs in 2 forms- Nvme and Sata. U can guess which is faster.
@@polytelus my bad... I misunderstood ur comment. What do you mean cheap SSDs arent a thing lol... 240/480Gb SATA SSDs are very cheap. Less than 80 dollars. They have R/WR speeds that are at the very minimum 3-4 times faster than HDDs. That will be such a big improvement in performance for OP who is still using a HDD.
6:56 I am confused.
Linus: "With the render taking an additional 14 seconds"
Clean: 7:15, Dirty: 7:23 - that difference is 8 seconds, that's almost half of what you just said.
EDIT: Linus probably only had either his script or the numbers from the graph; can't really blame him, was just something funny that stood out to me.
Probably one of the scriptwriters got that one wrong by looking at something different that was cut from the video. (Atleast that is what i'd guess)
Linus math tips
He is quite mornic most times and infact he exagerates EVERYTHING just to be relivent.
@@alorrick7546 Who cares if you don’t like him don’t watch him.
I was gonna comment same thing. 8s and 14s is a 43% difference which is significant, I guess.
I know im a year late on this but thank you so much for making this video as it does help me big time using my applications such as SFM.
Im glad im finally getting around to making a second machine and my current one is still going to be perfect for nongaming needs so my new rig can be 100% dedicated to gaming. im going to avoid having a browser and everything although some of my games can only be downloaded from the web
7:25 The important thing here is 1% lows, not really the average, and there is a 7% difference on CSGO, that's pretty huge.
Plus 5% on both F1 and Hitman(Dartmoor) and 6% on Hitman(Dubai).
Yes, this should have been pointed out.
A huge oversight by Linus. I made a post about this!
Yes, this. And I think if their setup was on hdds the difference in the 1% and 0.1% lows would be greater.
While the performance difference is extremely minimal on a high end desktop, bloat DOES make a noticeable difference if you are a laptop user. When I bought my Dell XPS, I did a completely clean install of windows about a week after getting it. Doing so added nearly 3 hours to the battery life of the computer. It also made it feel noticeably faster when plugged in.
There’s your problem you bought a Dell comes with unnecessary junk and low specs so o begin with not a good combo
@@samanthagriffinv2.08 How old are you, 12?
bloat is noticable on a low end "budget" desktop as well
@@ahar1401 I’m not saying it’s isn’t trust me I used plenty of low low end hardware before. I’m just saying Dell hp and then but dell especially is a bad contender to it. Cuz they put low hardware stuff that would barely meet Windows minimum hardware requirements and load it it with junk like McCafee and norten and a bunch of other junk. That’s why it’s better when you get a new pc from anyone like hp or Dell or whatever company just delete every partition on the drive and reinstall windows.
Could you please show me which steps did you follow? I need more battery and performance hehe, or at least less temp.
It'll nice to also know about the difference in power consumption/energy efficiency.
Been sitting on a comp all day every day for 30 years. Never had any doubt that a fresh win install made everything faster. Though it is getting more difficult to tell these days.
"If we had been running 8 gigs of RAM and a quad core CPU, we might have seen very different results"
Thats nothing, use an HDD as the windows driver.
My backup HDD was failing and it would basically make windows die slowly while it was plugged in, was a real headache to backup things from it to a new one 😅🤦🏻
Who the heck uses an HDD as a boot drive in 2021? SSDs have been standard for almost 10 years now.
@@bender9000 capacity on the cheap. They also hold data for years when not powered
@@bender9000 Well... I do! And it is not THAT bad. Aside from boot times, it is not slow.
@@bender9000 keep throwing hundreds of dollars at your computer so windows takes 10s less to start... I'll keep my $$ and just let my computer run...
Pro tip: Separate user accounts for gaming and general use. It won't stop ALL of the background services from installed bloat, but you can more finely tune what's installed system-wide versus per-user, so you can have the best of both worlds, mostly
True
True
Honestly I don't understand this comment can somebody explain it? I mean even if I separate by users I still need to use my razer synapse to have my dpi, polling rate in each user, etc. I also need to record my gameplay in the gaming user and I suppose since it's on the gaming user I need to have DaVinci in the gaming users. Same with my fans speed etc
Better yet just don't let all that garbage auto run, just use it when needed and kill it when done, making this much harder than it needs to be
@@elliotdeclet594 You didn't answer anything he was asking. He was asking what the separation of users does for performance when all of the bloat he could technically stop while gaming is needed in his use case. A separate user won't make the recording software less ram or cpu intensive just like anything controlling fan speeds.
And yes, having no onboard memory on a mouse may be bad design but it apparently is what he has now.
This is like me asking "How do I optimize X" and you answer "Just buy new X lol".
this is the type of video I've been waiting for
I'm trying to game on a laptop from 2017 with a i7-7500U, 8GB of ram, and a GeForce 940MX and this guy casually runs these tests on the PC of my dreams and expects the same results. I did a fresh windows install recently before switching to Manjaro Linux for performance sake, and the removal of all that bloat really did nearly double my Ultrakill fps
7:00 We saw a "14 seconds" difference... Linus, isn't 23 - 15 = 8 second difference?
thank you, i knew i wasn't the only one
Script writer was drunk, accidents happen. Party on 🥳
yes, and that would mean a 1.83% difference instead of the 3.21% they miscalculated
Came here to say this!
0:10 Ah yes, downloading games is killing my FPS
Can’t have weak performance if you never play anything
Underrated comment!
I cleaned everything out of my computer, including the motherboard and PSU, and now I get infinite FPS on Black Screen Simulator 2021.
@@TheRogueWolf same, I love that game
technically the truth
What i started doing a few years ago was updating fully on a clean build, and then uninstalling programs and windows apps with revo uninstaller and windows built in uninstaller > remove everything that isnt essential and update anything that is, double check framework and updates, then install the game its accessories (if any). GPU Anti-Aliasing and CMAA always Turned off but with all other graphics setting set to max in both the GPU GUI & in game settings. Beast Mode
I have a tidy montior but just looking at one with game icons brings me so many good memories
Instead of terminating the actual processes for them to just start back up again, you should be stopping the service in the services tab.
msconfig too
Indeed .. the taskbar icon is nothing more then that.. an icon to show that it is running… reason why a ton of spyware/malware/root kits don’t even have any icons that can be shown.
This man Windows’
@@angru04 I can't believe that msconfig is still in windows... just checked and IT IS. ver win 8.1 pro (free with 3 hour buy me popup)
I found it weird that they didn't know that.
Would’ve been more interesting if this was done on a low spec pc that has less capacity
Watch Gamers Nexus pre-build test videos. They are doing benchmarks with and without preinstalled bloatware. And in some cases the difference is noticeable.
I'd bet the majority of LTT viewers a have sub-$1000 PC.
@@Ascend777 yeh I do too but I think it’s clear that there would be no effects on a pc like this
Yep. And he will never touch the subject again. Classic LTT!
Need some advice.Recently i bought Trident Z Neo 8GB x 2 3600 C18,so i mix that with my previous Vengeance LPX 8GB x 2 3200 C16.I adjust on boot and all mix works.Is it ok for performance/future/gaming/work?
P/S Until now no probs (show 32GB,but x sure what speed and CL) 😌
With a cpu bottleneck, it would probably be much more noticeable. That is why i upgraded from 3600 to 5600x. Not much difference in performance in benchmarks, but cpu bottleneck is now gone and the experience is vastly different.
when linus said what is explorer doing open i actually lost it
Begone verified
I was like I thought Linus is supposed to be a PC veteran or something. You think he was just joking, that would be reassuring.
Yeah... Then again he's more of a hardware guy than a software guy. For those others wondering. Explorer also deals with your taskbar and searchbar.
@@DJTimeLock learnt this the hardware when I was a kid by killing explorer task and everything went black 😂
@@heyjohnsmith yep me too. When i heard Linus say it isn't open , i was like , bro you can kill it, therefore it is open. that's how i was "fixing" some trippy errors or just lag in windows 7/xp ... just by killing explorer.exe , and then running it again ... first time i did it though, i thought i completely broke the pc ... you get scared when you see everything disappearing ..
When first started PC gaming, didn't have the room on the HDD to store crap, didn't have the horses to run crap. So kept it clean. Even though now have a Ryzen 3600X, 16GB of ram, 1TB SSD, etc... I keep it clean. Old habit I guess ;)
That how I remember my mom keeping our home computer 👍
My current setup is a 1tb ssd with a few games on it.
Got a 2tb hdd for basic games and other programs.
Keep that ssd clean asf
I definitely had this issue. My pc has 2700x amd cpu and a 2080 rtx graphics card.
I was getting 30 fps in most games until I did a clean reinstall of windows and now my fps is 50-60 compared to below 30.
I installed driver updates from my anti virus which I think affected my performance.
I also installed all launchers but I won’t do that any more.
5:20 Windows Explorer running on the background is basically the desktop and taskbar stuff.
Would be interesting to see exactly how much hardware specs matter in this scenario. Because while the tested hardware saw a 3% drop in performance, what about low end hardware? The hit in performance could be much greater and thus the conclusion could be more serious than "it's okay".
Also, I was expecting the dirty install to be cleaned by uninstalling stuff to see if that would help recover some of the lost performance.
Also also, nothing was said about the fact that the two SSDs could have different performance scores and it would have been nice to see how they compare, just to make this test more robust to criticism.
aww man I thought you would go way more in depth with this
It would have been nice to see frametime consistency measured to see if bloat affects stuttering imo.
They're no digital foundry
It would have been nice for them to find a consumer friendly fix for this
They don't go in depth with anything. They have a hypothesis, do the minimum "tests" to find a conclusion then script it to be ~10 minutes. If you want real testing, there's better channels for that.
This is the casuals tech channel, what did you expect?
first had experience says its helps to do a fresh install just back up what ever you wanna keep
This really should have been done on a lower end pc as well to show how significant bloat can be.
My old Athlon 2 ran games that cited higher minimum specs on Windows 7, ran Windows 10 at launch using roughly 35% cpu at idle so was severely impacted for games.
Following the Anniversary update a fresh install of Windows required roughly 86% of the cpu at idle at which point games were out of the window entirely.
The Ryzen 9 5900x I use now is currently running a bloated system on an up to date Window 10 (didn't even realise some things like macrium reflect were still installed until I just spotted them in task manager) after opening epic (which is now updating rocket league), steam (which has started updating stellaris), GOG galaxy, origin, corsair keyboard software, logitech g600 control software and 25 active tabs in firefox.
Task manager reads a fluctuation between 1-3% cpu use mostly due to firefox and steam and 74% of my memory (16G installed).
The memory reading has made me realise the maximum memory boot option has been turned back on last time Windows updated without me realising, that reserves around 5GB for some reason.
The strength of any bloat effect will obviously follow a curve, at the lower end of hardware any upgrade will make a noticeable reduction in the effect of bloat, comparing the effect on say an i9 9900k to an i9 12900k on the other hand will be a marginal difference as you will likely be looking at a fraction of a percent.
Diminishing returns applies to pretty much anything in a pc, checking a map load on total war wahammer 2 from my kingston v300 ssd took 19.45 seconds, if I installed the game on my firecuda 530 m.2 it will make a few seconds difference at most.
Loading a map from my Deskstar on the other hand takes over 5 minutes.
Linus, Amazon has motherboards for sale as “used-good” through “used- like new” they claim that these motherboards have “slight cosmetic damage/missing extras” which I find very strange. They are significantly cheaper than the new products and are sold via amazon themselves from their warehouse. A lot of people on a budget could use the knowledge of you guys testing out these products to see exactly what they mean by the conditions to see if its worth saving money there.
good video idea
from what i have seen is that usualy they sell the board only with no parts or manuals or extras what so ever, which includes io shield and cables you might need and otherwise not get from other parts such as sata cables etc
these are basicly returns that are tested but might not have other stuff like screws and such or might have been dropped and have a scratch or something like that basicly not a problem
@@ModrunOfficial i assumed by the “missing extras” they meant: “You get the board only and nothing else” but still i think itd be interesting to see what they could possibly interpret as acceptable “good” level damage to a board without it interfering with the performance of the board, threatening the lifespan of the board, or potentially becoming a fire hazard in conditions that are not absolutely optimal for the boards health (ex: in a cheap case with not so great airflow)
They're probably just second-hand boards. They could have some scratches from being removed, but you also have to watch out for damaged pins or slots.
I would love to see how this performs with VR gaming. I've noticed that bloat seems to cause lots of microstutters in VR games, even simple ones like Beat Saber, while a clean PC install is a lot less jerky and nauseating.
RGB/peripheral software is usually the culprit. People have made batch files that kill programs known to cause issues so you can just run one of those before you play.
But they wouldn't have a video with this solution so !!!
What about saving files onto your desktop or having a lot of start up icons on the desktop. Even if the apps aren’t running, will that do something?
3:53 when I find out Applebee's has bottomless margaritas
Hey Linus! I was the random guy in the gray coat that just said hi! Unfortunately COVID sucks but that made my week regardless! Keep it up everyone at LMG thanks for all the videos you do. I’ll apply for a job when I graduate!
That "dirty" drive was also a fresh windows with just some programs installed, or it was used for a year at least? Because in my eyes if it wasnt used for over some time, that slill counts as a clean windows, and the performance drop should be definetly more noticalbe at least in boot up and in program openings. I''m not sure about the fps, but 2-5 fps drop is nothing. But in the every day usage you should notice it's definitely slower with the junk you've collected in the past few months/years.
They should have installed and ran all of the programs multiple times. Idk whether they did or not.
This is so true, if you've uninstalled (or sometimes just updated) a bunch of programs, they'll leave all kinds of junk.
My startup times had gotten annoyingly bad (I feel so spoiled after all those years of waiting several minutes for windows xp to load on crappy laptops) but after a quick hit of the registry with CCleaner (some people don't like/trust this program, but it's never let me down so I don't give a...) and my boot times were back to good, but not clean install levels.
Probably worth noting I have Windows fast startup disabled (because it caused issues with my crappy wacom drivers.) So startup time changes may be less noticable to others.
@@derptyderp5287 CCLeaner has the big benefit of not being Malware like most cleaners, so you could always do worse lol. I don't happen to use it anymore, but it isn't a killer like other cleaning programs
Win10 isnt that bad anymore with filling itself with junk like Win7 or fuckin XP i had to reinstall every 1-2 years.
@@mrn234 win10 is just as bad if not worse with semi annual updates that function like inplace upgrades.
Not sure why the surprise at so many apps restarting. Has been that way for many years. Since before 1998 I started disabling services, scheduled tasks, etc... used to try finding the best lists for disabling stuff for my specific needs (mostly gaming). I haven't felt the need to do that for quite a while since for the past several years now I've been building overkill PC's because I got so tired of tweaking shit all the time, overclocking, disabling stuff, and just wanted to brute force a smooth experience. Feels dirty though, so I might start tweaking again soon just to make myself feel better.
Awesome sweater bro. Where did you get it? I love it
Linus: Bloat is killing your FPS
Jeff Cavalier: Bloat is killing your gains!
6:57 ahh yes the 14sec difference. Did some quick math there, huh
"I'm disappointed in... myself... my family..." (was waiting for him to make a Mulan reference - "my cow")
Hey, what zip-hoodie is that? - I like it.
Jeff Cavalier tells me what kills my gains,
Linus tells me what kills my fps.
What a time to be alive