Noisy Hydraulic Tappets/Lifter/Lash Adjuster: inspection, cleaning and bleeding.
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- Опубликовано: 30 сен 2024
- Noisy Tappets.
This model of Hydraulic Lash Adjuster/HLA comes from Mazda diesel 2.2 Skyactiv D, But you may find them in many other brands of vehicles petrol engines as well, with more or less similar construction.
Extract from Workshop Manual related to HLA Installation Note enjoy!: • HLA installation Note
Best video I've found so far on cleaning lifters. Thank you.
That's very motivating, thank you
Great video.. Thank you.. After 20 years when i work like a mechanic. This is the one of the best information what going to me.. Thanks
I know this is 3 years old but i just rebuilt a 6g74 gdi quad cam 3.5 litre v6 with the exact lifters i bleed them but did not preload them (🤬fourth time im dismantling it and hopfully the last) this is what i needsd to do but had no idea now because of this and your detailed recording i can finally finish it 😂
I was watching your video showing this procedure, I am working on a 2012 BMW 328i with same type of HLAs and when you buy new lifters from the dealer they are rock solid. Everyone I know says they need to be rock solid before install. I also questioned this theory since pressure has to build up gradually on usage, and thought the stiff solid lifter might damage or counter the valve or itself if not properly primed, despite what the manual says, BUT if you have done it successfully on different engines then it is all I need to now I usually go on experience that others share, so thanks.
Thanks for the comment. For the engine, I was overhauling I had to buy 4pcs of new HLA. As you could see on the video, I used one of them as a comparison, they are rock solid. The engine I rebuilt run very smoothly from the first start. If you work with BMW check HLA before you clean them, you can check the height as well before and after and you will find the answer yourself🙂
Very clever process of cleaning lifters , thank you
Thanks for watching.
YOU SHOULD NEVER PRIME LIFTERS YOU PUTTING INTO CAR! THEY HAVE TO BE EMPTY! thay are auto adjusted, when you prefill lifter with oil it have no more adjustment capability.
@SayWhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat ruclips.net/video/3nFbUixbEPQ/видео.htmlsi=J_DGGPMRNH_fUXXL Here is the link and that is an extract from workshop manual. So that is what you should do before installing HLA. That is exactly what is in the video plus cleaning of HLAs. Any questions?
if youve made the effort or paid labour etc so much cost. why would you clean a damaged lifter that cost $9, I guarantee you its going to fail again
Who cleans damaged lifters? Check in advance if they are malfunctioning, remaining clean to achieve maximal performance. And of course you can change them all.
Dirt is not necessarily damage. Perfectly good components can malfunction due to carbon, dirt, etc. Clean them and they're as good as new.
tks, rebuilt my head but forgot about preparing lifters. I think this should do it.
You are welcome. That's the proper way of doing it.
I don't think you should install them fully pumped up and extended, as the adjustment of valve lash after running with oil pressure is somewhere in the middle of the lifters stroke, not fully extended, otherwise the engineers would simply use solid lifters instead.
Thanks for the comment. This is standard procedure, that's how we in the Mazda dealership prepare the HLAs. Check out the description, you will find an HLA installation note, that's an extract from the workshop manual.🙂
@@JB_Auto Good to know about Mazdas. Great info and method by the way on cleaning dirty lifters! Although, I do feel it's necessary to point out to others out there that I have seen the opposite information in most factory service manuals of other makes, (admittedly I don't have much experience with Mazdas) So just a word of caution kids..... unless you have a Mazda, with this particular engine, I would not recommend installing them fully pumped up without first doing your research about your particular application, as I know from experience that in some cases you could damage, break, or bend something when you go to torque the rocker assembly down, and also because a fluid of any kind cannot be compressed and therfore it will not be expelled from the lifter cavity past the check ball quick enough upon initial startup, which will incur unnecessary stress on your cam lobes, rockers, lifters and valve stems, even if only for a short time, you don't want that to occur at all if you can help it. Remember, hydraulic valve lash adjusters, or lifters for short, in this kind of application (where they are fixed into position in the rocker arm, without sliding up and down within a bore) are designed for the oil to go in and take up valve lash, or slack, and not come back out, hence the check ball, and why the oil gets so dirty inside them. Oil pressure pumps up usually in less than a second which is substantially faster than the time it would take for a fully pumped hydraulic lifter to bleed off its excessively tight valve lash past the check ball which is designed to keep the oil in permanently, they are designed to pump up once, to the correct lash adjustment, and then periodically allow a little more in, little by little as valvtrain components wear out, and that is it. This is why when you remove a used lifter, and you can compress it by hand, you know it's bad because the check valve has failed or gotten stuck allowing the oil to bleed out (commonly referred to as a collapsed, noisy, or ticking lifter) you should not be able to compress a properly functioning used lifter, that is it's job, to pump up and stay pumped up to a specific dimension eliminating all valve lash between the valve and camshaft, not to pump up fully and potentially prevent valves from closing all the way causing a loss of compression as well as unnecessary stress on all the other valvetrain components, most concerning of which are the cam lobes themselves as they are seeing higher forces because the valve is being extended further because the lifter is longer than it should be, thus compressing the spring more and translating to higher loads on the lobe until the lifter can be forced to bleed down (something it is not supposed to do to begin with.)
@@johnny0454 excellent explanation, you are 100% right the engine should pump them up to the required height 👌🏻
Je suis 100% d accord avec vous . Cest exactement se que je me disais et il y a pas mal de video erronée sur ce modèle de poussoir. E mieux serait de les nettoyer, les vider et les laisser se remplir d huile naturellement par le moteur il réglera le jeux naturellement entre le poussoir et le culbuteurs
@@sambus6329 It will adjust itself, but if you don't remove the air, HLA will be noisy at the beginning.
Nice instructions! Easy to follow. I just stumbled across your video in my suggested videos to watch. Keep up the great work.
Thank You, and vice versa🙂
Excellent and thank you too much 😊
I actually just put them to my mouth and blow. Or I put them in the oven and it boils the oil out
Are you a chef
My concern would be that if hard material is used for the rod, it may (slightly) damage/scratch the surface of the check ball. I know the check ball is made of hardened steel, but still. I think soft material rod, such as a copper or aluminum wire would probably be safer.
There is never too much safety, and I agree, but to find that thin round bar made of softer material would be a real headache 😉
@@JB_Auto I was thinking e.g. a solid 12gauge or 10gauge electrical copper wire (after insulation removed). Those should be strong enough and won't scratch hardened surfaces for sure 😀
Thanks! great video. Question. Do the oil holes on the side of the lifters need to line up? And Should I pre-load my lifters before installing them, or just soak them in oil? I have heard both
Thanks for the comment, You do not need to line them up, you should bleed them out as on my video, pre-loading is the wrong term because you do not pre-load but bleed out. If you do not bleed out they will be noisy at the beginning until filled up with oil.
@@JB_Auto love your videos! leaving it to be filled up at crank wouldn't it be better than priming them fully before hand?
@samithaweeraman1882 Thanks, it will be noisy in the beginning, and it sounds as if engine collapses, that is why I bleed them out.
@@JB_Auto when you say you bleed them do you bleed them fully? or halfway through? suppose its only halfway so it just needs to adjust only a little and would happen quickly rather than fully bleeding them?
@@samithaweeraman1882 Always fully they are self-adjusting anyway, see the link in the description.
Even a little play in HVA in a variable lift engine can give you headaches
Exactly, I have rebuilt the engine after 160K mileage picking only those HLA without play, I couldn't believe the result, the engine sounds like new.
Hi, Very very important what can come out to the world by Skills only. Good Luck.
I always thought that if you cannot squeeze it and no rebound means that its totally worn out...🤔
Thank you for the post; very hard to find. Question: I purchased new HLA's (rock hard), however they unseat the valve when installed. Leave as is (they will sort out), or bleed off (slightly soft) so they don't overpower the new springs (thereby pressing the valves open)? Thx.
When new HLAs are installed (Mazda origina), then they are ready to use. So once installed, just turn the crankshaft a few times to be certain that there's no surprise. That's what I do.
Thanks sir wish i can give you reward thanks alot my machanic
So ever so slight rebound is fine? i have some that are completely collapsed. Is this quite common?
There should be no rebound at all, collapsed HLAs happens but that is on rather bad condition engines, with neglected oil replacement.
I need ur advice plz.
I fixed ford galaxy 2l engine and when I spin camshaft sprocket, camshafts don't push valves springs properly due to which , on one particular spot camshaft jumps. Could u plz advice what would be the reason
I do not understand your description If you can make a video it would be easier.
Can one use ATF (automotive transmission fluid) also or engine oil is best
Thank you for actually explaining the difference between good and bad lifters.
Can cleaning fix a HLA that was intially rebounding?
You need to try if there is lots of contamination then it may help.
Thank you very much.
I was wondering if there is a way to disassemble it ?
Thanks for watching. The HLA is not dismantlable
Most important & skills-based information to the entire world as I too do it. He must be evaluated @ 100% or more from my point of professional view.
Thanks for watching.
Good afternoon, how do I manage to translate from English, and you can't translate from Serbian to English ??
It is a pity that the mechanics will not say how much the hydro lifts and seesaws are changed for, in order to destroy your engine in order to charge for more work, they should be ashamed that they are doing so ???
Hi, I'm not sure I understand it; I hope this answer will be satisfactory.
The lifespan of HLA and rocker arms depends on oil change intervals, engine oil contamination. There is also a question of whether the engine is mechanically modified or not.
There must be performed an inspection and, based on that, evaluation whether it is within tolerance or not.
So as you can see, there is no clear answer for how long they will last before replacement.
Where can I buy new hydraulic tappets.
Hi, We buy it at Mazda dealership.
Thanks appreciate you and your knowledge
Thanks for watching, regarding knowledge I'm still learning 🙂
Благодарю за познавательное видео о гидрокомпенсаторах.!
@@michailmihalich9662 You are welcome!
Thanks for the informational video. I noted the intake and exhaust tappets are color-coded differently on the Mazda 2.2 diesel engine. Do you know how the colors should lined up? I'm not sure I remember correctly.
The HLAs are not color-coded, there is one part number for both exhaust and intake. The only things which are color coded are Valve springs and valve seals. The WM can find on the web free of charge, unfortunately, I do not remember the website.
If you can compress the top without the pin on the check ball, and liquid comes out, would that be a sign that the HLA has failed?
Yes, that is correct!
@@JB_Auto thank you!
Excellent explanation
Thanks ✌🏻
Il faut préciser que cest uniquement pour les moteurs Mazda !!
Not really, consulted with VW technicians and it is the same procedure, if you want to re-use old, if you use new, you do not need to do anything.
ok
Good Repair
Awesome thank you
Thank you.
Zalosno je sto mehanicari nece da kazu na koliko se menjaju hidro podizaci i klackalice, da bi vam unistili motor kako bi naplatili veci rad, treba da ih sramota sto postupaju tako???
Hi, if you could write in English, I would appreciate that.
hello, it's normal that on my bmw 335i n55 the hydraulic tappet after bleeding with oil the tappet becomes very hard and doesn't move a bit?
@noxwolf6678 Yes, it's normal. All HLA, which looks like the one as on my video, will always be hard after bleading, and that is actually a sign that they are in good shape. If you feel rebound, then it should be replaced.
@@JB_Auto ahh okay thanks ! because there are other types of lifters? which should not be hard after bleeding it with oil
@noxwolf6678 I don't think so. There could be slightly different shapes, but the principle is always the same. I know that you may be confused due to different approaches, and therefore, comments like on my channel quote: "YOU SHOULD NEVER PRIME OR PUMP UP YOUR LIFTERS" end of quote. Due to those comments, I also consulted that with my colleague, who is master technician for VW, we looked at procedures in the workshop manual, and that is exactly the same procedure.
@@JB_Auto Okay, I had a doubt because I have a ticking noise when cold I start the car the noise appears either after 5-10 min or when just after starting I drive for a few meters, and disappears after a few minutes when the engine rises in temperature when I ride after 10 minutes no more noise I dismantled the 24 lifters 2 were dead because they fit just but didn't come out I bought 2 new ones all I purged at the end they were all hard and I I still have the noise, I don't understand what it could be coming from now
@noxwolf6678 Well, if it is a higher frequency, then it could be other lifters. The valve train noise will have a higher frequency, and the crankshaft system will have lower, which is easy to distinguish. In certain cases, injectors can make noises similar to the lifters. Sometimes, it's difficult to find where the noise comes from. Check out my other videos about how to find noise from the engine. Try to use those approaches, and here are links.
ruclips.net/video/3NPsgmi0T-w/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/YpHiD6TA6G4/видео.html
Gotta love the yt advertisement was for eyelashes 😆
That's unbelievable, maybe you watch stuff for ladies lol 😉
@@JB_Auto The video was pure gold. Having issues with a neighbors Ford f 150, and this info really helped me understand what might be going on with it. I’m more of an old school Mopar guy and these overhead cam engines are a learning curve. This was extremely helpful, so thanks.
Great video mate by the way when you instal them back does it matter where the hole from the tappet faces ?
Thanks. It goes upwards 🙂
@@JB_Auto yes but the hole from where the oil comes out it doesn't really matter?
That on the side of HLA doesn't matter, the top one goes to the rocker arm.
You are great man
You are brilliant
Clean it and then apply pressure and check if you see any oil escaping?
If oil escapes that's a bad tappet, after you bleed the tappet out, check for a rebound by squeezing HLA with your hand or wooden block, if it is hard as a stone that indicates the tappet is good.
@@JB_Auto it would be interesting to explain how they adjust in height
@therealspixycat You know what. I think I will add this subject to my future videos; as you can see in the comment section, there are many divided opinions about how you should deal with HLAs, and there are a lot of misconceptions
@JB_Auto cool! May be also show how to identify this issues while an engine runs? Ie listen using a stethoscoop or long screwdriver and try to capture that sound for your viewers? Cheers!
Can one use ATF (automotive transmission fluid) also or engine oil is best
Engine oil only. Why would you use ATF?
@@JB_Auto that's what I was advised. So we should use engine oil until it's rock hard.
Use engine oil since the part is related to the engine, then you bleed it out until no bubbles come out, then if HLA is good it becomes hard to press, or rebound disappears, if you can not get rid of rebound you should replace them.
@@JB_Auto thanks brother I just washed it with diesel latter I will put engine oil and make sure they are rock hard. Warm andgood holidays thanks once again hop we can keep chatting
You are welcome, Good holiday to you too, and yes we can chat.
👏👏
Why did you left the lifter already with pressure inside? That is not right, lifter shoud automatic adjust on the first start up of the motor, doing what you did may cause to valves have contact with the piston or not properly close.
Thanks for the comment. This is a bleeding procedure that you need to perform before assembling HLA to the head engine. HLA adjustment is performed while the engine is running and is done by utilising oil pressure, everything I show in my videos is based on a workshop manual and experience. Here is link for an extract from workshop manual: ruclips.net/video/3nFbUixbEPQ/видео.html
@@JB_Auto Sry but you are wrong, yes you need to bleed but they need to have free play not rock solid, how the oil pressure will adjust lifter when you let them already fully extended? never do that again, you will damage the valves, they need to move, oil pressure will fill them and automatic adjust them. You can bleed them withou let them fully rock solid or fullu extended.
So explain to me why after bleeding out, one of the judging criteria of HLA is to check if there is a rebound, and if the rebound is present you need to replace them? By the way, I have Already repaired plenty of those engines, and there was one time where I forgot to bleed them out and that was the only time where the engine was noisy at initial start-up. I'm curious how would you prepare the HLA before assembly, can you write?
One more thing, that position is let's say prepared zero position, fully extended will be while applied pressure. You need to obtain a workshop manual for CX5 PDF form free download, and there is a clear description regarding how it works, you do not need to believe me.
I've done as he showed in the video. After installing tappets, I first tuned the crankshaft with a wrench, no collision between valves and the piston, then started the engine, and it runs smoothly, so what are you talking about?
Do the tappets do the same move mounted in engine like you did while cleaning ?
No, the movement is almost not noticeable, if you place them into the head engine without oil then the movement will be visible for a brief while including noise.
WHAT DO U DO IF THE NEW LIFTERS ARE SEALED OFF AT THE TOP HOLE ?
If sealed remove whatever seals it, and make sure that they are ready to use. Usually are ready because there is oil in them and no rebound is present, as on the video.