Cylinder Head 107 - 4G63 HLA Lifter Tech
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2012
- I have all 3 revisions of the DSM lifters in this video. This will help you identify which ones are in your cylinder head, as well as illustrate the cleaning process, and each lifters' advantages and disadvantages.
WHEN you finally have to perform maintenance on these lifters, they're a bigger pain than a solid lift valvetrain is (ONCE). BUT if you follow the service schedule on a solid lift valvetrain, HLA's are a smaller pain overall.
You'll never need feeler gauges to adjust these hydraulic lifters, and you'll never need to know their gap. You can't adjust them. You'll just know whether or not they're good by the amount of noise they make. 3 things can cause trouble with them. Clogged lifters, insufficient oil pressure, or insufficient oil volume.
So before you sail your oil pump down the river, you can follow the steps in this video to rule out the first variable. You can actually remove and re-install them without taking the timing belt or camshafts out, but that will be another video. Chances are you already know this. The second and third potential issues COULD be your oil pump, but for your oil light isn't on and if there's ever been machine work in its past history to either the head or the block, I explain in "Cylinder Head 103 - Deck Tech" what a frequently-overlooked part of the cylinder head is that could be a contributor to the issue. That link is in the video.
I MENTIONED ANOTHER COOL VIDEO: it was here...
• hydraulic tappets / hy...
Thank that author as well. He did a great job! I don't know the guy and claim no credit to his work, I'm just giving him a shout-out. 
Авто/Мото
Jafro, I pissed excellence today. I have been keeping a 98 2g Spyder gs with a 4g64 alive for the last ten years. It has presented multiple opportunities to learn something new, including a full rebuild of a F4a23 transmission. I began watching your channel a few years ago, dreaming of turning my eclipse into a monster. While financial limitations have prevented that plan from coming to fruition, the engine eventually developed a persistent tick. I went through the usual checks, changing the oil, etc., to no avail. There was no detectable damage to the valves or lifters; so, I decided to live with it. A few months later, I stumbled across this video. Once I understood the general theory of how HLA systems work, I took another look. I used the same cleaning procedure for the lifters, only to have my cleaning solution full of large ferrous shavings. After identifying the source of the contamination and a through cleaning of all readily accessible components, I reassembled the valve train. The tick was gone. Thank you for taking the time to make these videos. They go well beyond step-by-step guides, discussing systems, theory of operation, and the virtue of using your brain. It is greatly appreciated and I hope you keep up the great work.
i love the fusion between mitsu engine, proper guidance and humour. u have helped mitsu fans around the world, im sure
Even though I no longer have a DSM, I still watch your videos Jafro. Very insightful and entertaining please keep up the good vidoes!
Where to come for some of the best V8 4v head tech knowledge. Love it.
This is a great video and lots of information and like the history on the part which gives me an understanding on the system.
Thank you thank you thank you good to see a true mistro at work saved me a lot of time and money old school. Mechanic learning new tricks fantastic liked and subscribed
Well done. I have a few 1980’s turbo dodge 2.2/2.5L heads with improved 2000’s pt cruiser HLA in them (the original HLA didn’t have a pee hole where as PT cruisers did), and I was hoping to find something describing this process
Thoroughly impressed with the tutorial ! Thank you
Working on a 2001 PT right now. Head gasket gave with 86k miles on it. Sat for 2 years and now I'm cleaning everything out. Figured Id watch a few weeks of videos before putting it back together.
I have never seen this kind of thing before in the flesh so to speak, I know about hydraulic lifters, but never actually had any dealings with them. Nice to see what they look and behave like. Ace video once again. :-)
I know about 5% of what Jaf is talking about in these videos, but I would never dislike them. There are untold amounts of man hours invested in this channel. Keep up the good work Jafro.
I don't know if this has been mentioned in the comments but something I use to clean all sorts of small parts is an ultrasonic cleaning bath. They can be had relatively cheaply from ebay. Ideally you want one with a stainless steel tub. You dump whatever cleaning solution you prefer in the unit, select the time and go. If it's not clean, go again. Some scrubbing may be necessary for really grimy nuts and bolts. I've cleaned injectors, nuts and bolts and various other small parts using this but never thought about lifters before.
As with any suggestion YMMV.
man I love your vids!!!! so informative and your attention to detail is crazy! (in a good way)
Great video, excellent in depth information as always, nut cans and ice cube trays ftw!
Well done Jafro! Thank you for the detailed, helpful video!
So, coles notes: Bleed all oil out before installing camshaft (11:59). Got it. Thx so much. Had to listen to that 3x to be sure. 🙂
Love the ant! And now I know how to clean my lifters! I got two dsms down two to go
thank you sir. I have to stuck lifters on my 420a I'll be going out n pulling them and using this video to repair them.
The little cans !!!!!! OMG they are the star of this video
Great video man! Very informative. I dont have a DSM but the principle is the same none the less.
I have a small sonic cleaner, and it works great, but putting them upside-down in a metal (nut) can and tapping it works just as well. Crud drops right out. Only for shielded bearings, the sonic cleaner might have a small advantage. Please keep these videos coming, Jafro.
Excellent video!
Best flic yet - cheers
Excellent, as always.
Thank you. I had a n overheat problem and all lifters were hard, wonder how normal that is. I cleaned them now will put them back.
Thank you for sharing all these....
Ice cube tray to hold the lifters! You clever man.
3000GT and Stealth lifters look identical to these. As far as I know there were only two revisions. 1991-1998 and then 1999 got the larger oil hole on top. It's a popular mod to get rid of lifter tick.
hey Jafro first of all thank you for the videos has help me a lot i have a v6 2.5l ford duratec engine and the lifter look almost exactly the same. How do i know if they have failed?
Jafro, I have watched almost all your videos within about a week. I have to say I have become a dedicated veiwer and will always hope new vids are on the way! But I have to ask, can you do a video containing whats in your tool collection? I have always enjoyed watching tool vids but with your skill and know how im sure you have some kind of something I have never seen before.
Good luck Jafro, and great job. Keep it up
This is very helpful. Thank you
Nice video Jafro!
Thanks for posting this!
great video, thanks!
my lifters instead of bottle cap type retainers, they are made out of plastic. they all desintegraded, what can I do about it? can I just make my own?
Here's a tip: Instead of soaking them in a can, put them in a ziplock back filled with cleaning solvent (such as kerosene), drop them in an ultrasonic cleaner filled with hot water; then run it for 20 - 30 minutes. They will be spotless inside and out.
You are correct, but have to keep in mind this video was made 10 years ago and ultrasonic cleaners weren't easily available then.
very specific and informative
Kind of reminds me of a particle check points during a flushing on a tank, reduction box or engine crank case, back in the yards! I thought you had a mini helper that you sent inside the lifter to check it clean…LOL
Great lifter info.. im working with a scion xd 1.8 2zr engine my book say you pump the lifters up with oil then install them ? it says if there good they will be hard to push down.. when I install them should they be hard or easy to push down .. any info you have would be helpful...
would love to see you do a 00-04 zetec focus head! I was a bit confused with your directions, I know 2 stay away from the valve seat! tho, I thought MAKING EM BIGGER HELPED? I will be gasket matching my exhaust & at least smoothing my ports a great amount & hopefully, polish my combustion chamber.
Not only are you Brilliant but your editing is phenomenal.. Quick Question? 2k Tahoe 205k miles 5.3. lifter noise maybe rod knock. Spray B-12 down push-rods, can i reduce my shop vac 2" hose down to 3/8" hose and suck the sludge out threw the push-rod then blow hot air down the push-rod to blow the sludge out the other end?? then gunk engine clean. drop oil pan check for rod knock. going to do this in a few weeks and will video it. Just wondering if I will damage the lifters?? thank you Jafro
Yeah, I really like your vids, I found your channel through Eric the Car Guy. He had a couple vids on his tools, and i remember in your garage modification vids i saw you had two big tool boxes, looked like the U.S. general ones? And I visualized what you would have in them LOL.
thanks man nice video
Hi jafro, just wanted to give ua tip i found usefull when cleaning 3gen lifters, you know the "pin" you get with the new belt tensioner to pull out after installing new Timing belt? it fits perfect down into the lifters, and is a lot stronger than a paperclip, so it dosnt bend at all :D just wanted to pass this on :D best regards from denmark :D
Excellent video. Thanks for sharing. In a set of lifters I have, after relieving the pressure, the spring return on some of them do not extend the lifter fully, while several of the others in the set do. Any thoughts?
What a great video - well done - do you have to replace the rocker arm if you install a new lifter? This is a general question and not specific to the lifters in the video -
Hey jafro, great vids. I just bled my lifters but 2 of them is stuck or collapsed and wont go back up by themselves, does that mean theyre junk now?
Hey jafro are you gonna explain the hla adjuster in your next vid? Or you have already?
This is not the new video I was looking for. :(
I heard recently people are using the 1g lifters with the kiggly HLA regulator for better results because now that the oil pressure is regulated the lifter works as was intended. You are using a HLA regulator Jafro whats your input on this? going to stick with the 3g lifters or use 1g lifters. Possible that it is more critical to do with a higher revving engine. Im not sure what I am going to use, i have a kiggly regulator and may go for a gsc lifter with the stiffer springs.
Question? I have a 4g63 non turbo off a 92 eclipse gs, im going to buy new ones but would you recommend for me to buy 3g lifters to replace the 1g? and will they be a direct fit or would I have to modify anything? Thanks for the video very good information. do you have one on removing/installing them?
Also I am thinking about doing a 2.4 turbo gallant project and I think you might have every single answer to every question I might have. lol
"That's lifter cleaning in a nut can"
- underrated comment
I have lost motion assemblies, honda/oem arent great & they updated them to springs, but they cost 250 new. how could i determine if my current lma's (not running) are good or not ? all of them seem to rebound.
I've read that you do not need to do the oil port mod if you have the kiggly hla and 3g lifters. Does this sound about right?
Perfect Man !!!
So I've got an evo 9, should have the 3g lifters in it. They've suddenly started making a ruckus. *abnormally loud. (They were noisy but acceptable before) Would you take them out and clean them, or just buy new 3g lifters?
Thanks for the video. I learned I'd rather spend $100 bucks on new lifters than try clean old ones. :D
i bought brand new lash adjusters for my evo. My major concern is if i have to bleed them from their factory anti rust oil, but afterwards i have to submerged them in the same oil i will use to the engine and fill them until they do not compress by hand force. All in all i'm asking if when we install lash adjusters to cylinder head they have to compress easily by hand or to be rock solid full of oil?? Please clarify this because it will help lot's of people.
Another great video! But I do have one question for you tho. Iv read online that you can modify 1g lifters by drilling the top oil hole out slightly. What are your thoughts? Thank you and keep up the great videos :)!
+Seth Martin I'd be concerned with leaving metal dust down inside the pee holes that would get ground up in the rockers or cam journals. It may work, sure… and I too have seen this… but a brand new set of 3rd revision Topline 4g63 lifters are so cheap on ebay that I don't know why people experiment with this. I think I got mine for like $80. That's only $5 each.
jafro you said injectors at 8:20 haha Great video!!!!!
When you said to bleed the oil out of the check valve before installing, do you mean to fill the lifters w/ oil for storage but right before installation empty the oil out of the lifters?
For instance TopLine has lifters that are labeled revised and have 3mm holes or something. Any idea on them for my 2g?
From your vid, looks like I should NOT have left them filled with oil when I installed them. I should have emptied the oil from them before installing them. Right now I'm getting a lot of tick from the hla's I just installed a 2004 outlander intake which is the same but tougher, reason being the oe on the gallant 2.4 is prone to cracking. So. These HLA should be squishy when installed?
Jafro, you had these in a specific order (hence the ice trays) but then mixed them all up. I'm assuming it doesn't matter what order you put them back in? I was under the impression that that's very important to do.
Once I assessed that half of them were trash, it didn't matter anymore. What you want to do is keep them in order unless a part looks unusually worn. In a valve train, other parts can contribute to that so it's important to know what goes wear until you have a full assessment. When it comes to valves, yes. They must all stay in the holes they came from. Hydraulic valve train? Eh, it doesn't hurt, but a properly-functioning hydraulic valve train is self-adjusting.
Could you soak the lifters in Mineral spirits? Is that a good enough solvent to clean them? Since Kerosene is pretty difficult to get a hold of in my area.
+BoostedCajun Yes, and you'd need to oil them immediately afterwards because they're made from ferrous materials that will rust if left oil-free. Internally, that could cause them to stick. So yes, mineral spirits, Kerosene, Diesel, etc… all would work fine and there's really no difference between using mineral spirits and the process I showed here because I oiled them immediately afterwards.
Strange, I was looking at my lifters today and they are 1st gen, small pee hole at the top but its a 97 talon tsi AWD 7bolt, head swap or did some 97s come this way?
So after the oil bath and prior to install in the head you just hand push the top to get the oil out? Is the key to make sure it can easily compress by hand to prevent valve damage once installed? Mine started getting noisy on a 6G72 at nearly 270K miles...I need to install new 3G versions in it.
I serviced my 4g64 lash adjusters and instructions said that the only way to depress the hla is to insert a paper clip into the center hole and push the piston in while submerging it in diesel oil. It was very cruddy in those things. I cleaned them this way 2 times to make sure I got the grit out and then I did it a 3rd time submerged in oil so they were full before I installed them again. I could not depress any of the 4g64 hla's by pressing on them, only with paper clip.
Jafro that was a great video. But im wondering when are you going to make a timing belt tutorial itwould be great with your own style.
Okay, you did stop the insanity......LOL
Man, wish I'd have watched this video a week ago. That and had the sense to check ebay for the lifters. I just paid 80 for a set of 8 of the damn things.
Jafromobile, are you an advocate for full synthetic oils (post break in)?
Awesome and informative! What oil do you use in your DSM and why? I see you used Havoline in this video. I assume it's because it's very cheap to acquire and to use for this task. I run Royal Purple and was thinking of swapping to Amsoil Fully Synthetic for my 11 Genesis Coupe. Which do you think is better and why? I was told Amsoil is far superior being it was the first synthetic oil ever on the market and can take more abuse that Royal Purple. Getting my DSM very soon...;-)
dont know if you reply to comments on this video anymore but ill take a shot at it. I'm Installing new lifters on a lincoln with a 4.6 engine in it and they are very similar to the ones in this video. Here's the question do i have to install them primed with oil or just put them in as is ?? a couple of my friends have told me to just pop them in not to oil them but then some other have told me to leave them soaking in oil over night i dont want to mess this up and have to do it all over again so any advice will help
the guy told you what to do in the video... pay attention
Do you have a link to where the 3g hla can be bought?
Hi. Good and efficient technique. Why the new ones I bought from vw are stiff and hard to press with fingers.
They're full of oil. There's a valve inside the lifter centered with the top oil hole. You can straighten a paper clip and poke it open to release the oil. I show how to do it in this video. When they're filled with a liquid, and the valve is closed, the liquid acts as a solid because it won't compress. Once you get air in it, it will.
Ok. So when reinstalling them, should they be empty from oil or hard and full of oil.
Make you realise quickly how important having clean oil is.
Naphtha's flash point is around 550 degrees F. You can boil it around 200 - 220 degrees. The can you are using is perfect for doing this as the bottom is usually a little recessed so there isn't perfect thermal transfer; it's almost like a double boiler.
Yes, you should do this outside. like the exhaust, I wouldn't breath that shit either. This method is used to clean spark plugs on an aircraft. It works very well for this as well and it will save you time and elbow grease.
Fantastic presentation, your communication skills are quite advanced. I am curious to know what you do for a living ?
hi i need ur help. I have a sound coming from toyota corrolla when engine is cold, but goes away when it is warm. i looked at valve train to see if that sound come from there, to me it is not, i expreince valve ticking noise in mitsubishi and this noise is not like that..
so how do i differentiate valve ticking noise and bottom end noise(pistion slap or rod knock noise). I assume if noise goes away after engine warm up, can i assume it is not valve and pistion slap and it could be rod knock .
Greetings.
I have a Toyota noah 2013 with a 3ZR-FAE, vvt valvematic engine. Does the order in which I reinstalled the HLAs matter (after cleaning).
Also, does anyone know where I could find a set of 16 new ones to buy? I can't find them anywhere so far.
I need help please.
YES THANKS :)
Love 4g63
11:33 to 11:50 you almost set the can on top of that ant lol
I just bought some lifters for a '99 expedition. I was told to use a paper clip to inject oil in them otherwise the rollers could slip off and cause severe engine damage, but you're saying if they're rock solid they'll bend valves. What do I do please?
Actually if you wanted an example car without hydraulic lifters, I recently did a head gasket job on a Honda CRX with the D15B2. Those rocker arms are directly contacting the camshaft.
Change your oil before bothering with all this imo. Mine was overdue, was considering doing all this work then thought heck would fresh oil fix it? Yes, yes it can. Massive difference. No more loud valve tapping
Hello I need HEEELLPPPP!!!! I have problem with my lifters, I have hyundai sonata 1998 2.0 102kw that is mitsubishi engine, i order on ali all 16 lifters and that is not that. In your video i see that have 1-2-3- gen lifters and they send to me 2gen. 2gen lifters is litle short then 1gen. How to fix that and what i'm supposed to do.
One part I don't understand is at the end where you prime them with oil but then say to bleed the oil out before installing. What's the point of pumping them up with oil and leaving them in the can?
Hi I am having noise in Toyota valve train it has solid lifters. I hear noise only in morning till warm up. It comes only when I step on throttle don't know if lifter noise come only on throttle up. Pls advise
I have watched several videos on dis assembling a lifter. Everyone does it pretty much the same way, and it works very effectively for everyone. EXCEPT ME ! The piston inside my lifters, will NOT come out. In have tried all the tricks I have seen, like pushing the check ball down to relieve suction. I even tried heating the lifter up a bit, based on the simple premise that air expands when heated. That didn't work either. I thought maybe I just had a stubborn lifter. I tried 3 more. Same thing. I am at a loss. Do I simply need new lifters? Thank You
You are the f'ing Man!! Thank You!
Can you go in to detail on an interference engine?
An interference engine is simply an engine whose valvetrain will occupy the same physical space inside the combustion chamber as the pistons, just not at the same time. If these events do occur simultaneously it ends with a catastrophic failure of the engine. On a non-interference engine, the valves can be fully opened when the piston is at top-dead-center without making contact with one another. You can snap a timing belt on a non-interference engine and experience no mechanical failures after replacing the timing belt. With an interference engine, your only hope is to get lucky. Sometimes you get lucky, but it's still the kind of a failure you should take very seriously. It's usually toast, but I've seen people get lucky more than once.
Look for "Cylinder Head 206". It's mostly about valve clearance, valve timing and Lobe Separation Angles but in it, I made a pretty detailed animation of what happens when you get your valve timing or clearance wrong with an interference engine. I fully explain DOHC valve timing in Cylinder Head 205 and degreeing the cams to their baselines, including making your own tools to do it. It's pretty intense. The Hyundai engine assembly begins after Cylinder Head 206 in the video timeline.
I don't have a video specifically about that topic, but there are a lot of ASE certified mechanics like ETCG who do. I only have videos addressing my specific problems related to interference engines, why I have them, and how to tune around the valve clearance issues associated with them. Basically my videos are the full rabbit hole for when people figure out they have an interference DOHC engine and decided they wanted to know more.
I guess returning these to the original lifter tunnel in the head is not necessary as is done with the Valves, caps, etc… right?
i also need to know this as i accidentally tipped over my head before i removed the lifters... oops. i am thinking after watching how to clean the lifters the answer is no.
i have a slight problem i cant seem to get my lifters out of the head i believe they are 2g lifters
Genius! So, with the V1 ones, we can't to use the clip method and kerosene?
You can. If you have any crust inside them that's bigger than the hole on top, you might find it difficult to get all the junk out. It might take you more soakings, and more cycles. The hole is just so small...
The best thing to use for this is a jewelry "Sonic " cleaner ..you can usually get one cheap at your local thrift store..
Dope ass video
What about filling the can with Naptha instead and boiling it on a hot plate? That is what I did and all of the crap came right out. I did it two or three times with a fresh bath.
So i did a quick bleed of my lifters when i installed cams in my evo. I used a allen key and pumped the oil out until Tim could compress them with my fingers. After i got every thing back to normal i have a very loud tick coming from some of them. Is that normal ?
They should fill back up after the engine is fully warmed up and be silent again. If they don't, then you might have an issue with either the lifters, or the head oil pressure. The noise won't hurt the cams if the oil pressure is good, but if there's an oil pressure problem it could affect the cam journals. If you have good oil pressure on the gauge and didn't change anything else, give your oil pressure the benefit of the doubt. It's a common thing for hydraulic noise to occur until the lifters are filled up.
Jafromobile yeah the car was fine before I took the old cams out. No noise or oil pressure issues. Only thing I did was bleed lifters and swap cams. The tick just scared me.
I've found out by accident that shooting air into the check valve/lower piston that it shoots itself straight out of the lifter body.
LOL! Never even thought of that. It's a check valve. Indeed that would work. I just like any reason I can find to play with fire.
I took the little bottle cap off and cleaned the lifter and i put the bottle cap seal back on it went on but not as tight will that be a problem?
You have to crush the bottle cap piece back down. Because of the design changes to these style lifters, you're really better off getting a new set of revised lifters as a replacement. They show up clean, and the hole is big enough that with enough solvent you won't be required to take them apart to clean them in the future. The 1g small-hole lifters are difficult to clamp back down, but it can be done. They're sandwiched between the head and the rocker arm, so that bottle cap piece isn't what's holding it together when it's installed... but you don't want it coming loose and interfering with the rocker arm. They need to fit well enough that oil pressure can't push the caps off, and so that you can't pull them off with your fingers.
@@Jafromobile hey thanks for answering. I really enjoy your videos they are the most detailed and well explained ive seen. One last question when i install the lifters do they need to have oil in them or can i put them in freshly cleaned and with no oil in them?
Oil them, but drain them out first before you install them. Don't install them all pumped up solid with oil. Don't install them dry, either. They'll fill faster and work better on that first startup in this state. Installing them full and pumped up can actually lead to valvetrain damage. I'm pretty sure I covered this in another video, but I can't remember which one? It would be for the Hyundai, I'm pretty sure.
Hey jafro I am rebuilding a 99 eclipse gst, i soaked and the check valve won't let some of the lifters get hard, but they get full of kerosene , are these lifters junk?
If the check valves are stuck open, they'll never compress. Get the paper clip and poke 'em out real good, if you can't clear the jam or if the check valve is broken, you have to replace the lifter. Just buy a new set off of ebay. Toplines work great and they're dirt cheap.
Jafromobile ok. Thank you for replying fast, I'm currently working on my DSM right now!
Hello, do you know part number for third version of lifters? I have Mitsubishi Space Wagon with 4G64 GDI engine.
Thanks a lot!
MD337687
@@Jafromobile Ok, and MD376687 and MD377054 from another engine or latest version, Thanks!