Fanged Wyvern Ecology : Odogaron in Monster Hunter
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- Опубликовано: 18 ноя 2021
- Seemingly ready to brawl with just about everything, Odogaron is often called MH's honey badger. But is Odogaron quite as aggressive as he seems, or is there more beneath the fierce surface? And do other animals provide a better comparison?
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If we had met ebony odogaron first, it’s very likely the hunters would have called the one we find in the vale Crimson Odogaron. “A less aggressive and more derived and successful scavenger that makes its homes in the carrion rich rotten vale. Still ferocious, the new challenges set forth by the vale has limited its classic elemental traits and reduced its eyesight significantly; developing an improved sense of smell to discern the cacophony of smells of rotten meat and effluvium that permeate the graveyard”
Great description - crimson odogaron is a good name too!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel glad you liked it :)
Well said
Probably, although for gameplay reasons you can’t have a weaker subspecies later on y’know
@@cormoranoimperatore8413 fair enough
The Ebony Odogaron may not look built for the cold....
*The Ebony Odogaron may not look built for the cold*
OH NO
do you think Ebony Odogaron could live in the cold from a visual aspect alone?
@@aurnknight2813 probably more like
Local dog too angry to freeze
@@Abyssaracnis high metabolism means more energy used, more energy used means more heat is made. Meaning that ebony and savage could most likely live in the reach
@@sandmountainsam9287 they both can already be found there so hm
For me it always felt like the hyper aggression that Odo shows is a sort of psuedo-sacrificial deterrent, where superpredators may attempt to avoid it to some extent due to the sheer aggression that it shows, not dissimilar to poisonous butterflies. Sure, encountering an Odo likely won't end in a lethal consequence for a Tigrex or Glavenus, but it may end up injuring them in the process.
Don't forget, any injury can be fatal, especially in an area like the rotten vale, not to mention the fact that its claws seem purpose-built for ripping through flesh and otherwise easily allowing for infection.
I can see it as first being a byproduct of their poor eyesight, but then as generations passed, more aggressive and overly confrontational individuals just existing and being more trouble than they were worth to fight allowed for more surviving Odo's, which then started a chain reaction leading to those behaviors being selected for.
another way to put it is "being so fucking annoying that everyone just avoids you"
@@tgF321jikko yep! Be more trouble then your worth lol...
If infant monsters existed in the game, I can imagine odos beginning very protective parents, keeping the young where they cash their food and going absolute batshit bear mom on monsters that got to close
The threat of injury is very real to predators, odogy over here is only really vulnerable to the walking extinction event that is deviljho, most everything else it can injure, and probably quite badly.
Especially in the Rotten Vale. Even a Tigrex sucessfully kills an Orogaron, the wounds inflicted in the short fight is escentially asking efluvium to feast and infect that flesh promthly killing or making life dificult for the couple of weeks of healing and fighting efluvium infection.
Even a monster victorious against an Orogaron pays a price for the victory, hence the death or prior experience if he survives would make said monster be cautious of fighting an Orogaron again.
Mobing but actually deadly pretty much
A part of me wants to say that the hunting strategy of odogaron when it hunts larger prey is to deliver a lot of deep cuts to softer areas via its retractable claws and waits/follows its prey until it dies from blood loss (maybe it even tracks said prey via smelling the blood) but this is just a guess with no scientific backing
The book does mention that actually, although in gameplay Odo seems to lead more with it's mouth.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel My guess for that is maybe because it uses its jaws for small prey (i.e. humans/hunters and raphinos or giros)
@@unnaturalhistorychannel it could be like how wolverines hunt caribou. How they hunt is by jumping on the neck or shoulders and rip into the neck because from what I noticed with a lot of his turf wars is that he goes on the neck or jumps on the back.
@@goldentyrant4822 I did want to include wolverine predation on ungulates as a comparison, but it ultimately got left on the cutting room floor with the fishers and such.
Something similar to a komodo dragon ?
I really love Odo, just wish he was in future games
It does show in rise how the Tetranadon is fighting for it’s life when entering certain turf wars like that of Goss
But yeah dos’s weather mechanic and hazards were amazing
Problem with (normal) Odogaron is that it can be only found in the rotten vale and rarely the coral highlands.
However they could make this work if they just say that travelling between the new and old world has become much easier. So you could visit the rotten vale, maybe a new part of it.
Something I always thought was neat was the wolf-like Orugarons from Frontier share the -Garon in their names with Odogaron. To me that feels like it's intentional to signify some kind of lineage between the two, similarly to the 'baro' in Banbaro and Durambaros, which those two are definitely closely related.
I also got the impression that Odogaron could be intelligent on occasion, with how it patiently waits for Radobaan to attack before dodging and going in for the attack. Though that intelligence seems tempered by the overall aggression it has against monsters it feels more threatened by. It attacks Tigrex and Val Hazak with reckless abandon but also just sits there cowering before Deviljho (Which is still stupid.)
Very much looking forward to the next video!
Odo definitely seems to have some low cunning that contrasts with his more typical meatheaded behaviour, and agreed with the Orugarons too.
And cheers! Hope it'll deliver!
and now there's Lunagaron, who's definitely related to those two as well.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel there’s also the sioth monsters like plesioth and lavasioth
While I agree that Banbaro and Duramboros are most likely related, it's worth mentioning that his name is DuramBOROs, not DuramBAROs. Really just a nitpick but still. And yes, the "Garon" in Odogaron, Orugaron and now Lunagaron do seem to be an indication that they are related, although strangely enough Orugaron is classified as a fanged beast whereas the other two are fanged wyverns.
@@Cheeyze That I'll chalk up to differences in localization earlier on. The newer games they tend to be a lot more direct in the translated names for the most part. Meaning if Duramboros was localized today instead of back then it would probably be named Duramboro.
I really like that Odogaron didn’t get the Deviljho treatment where, based on reputation alone, he’ll be booked to win every confrontation, including with wyverns that should easily outclass him.
The fact that he’s just as likely to get dunked on as he isn’t really helps with his characterization as an angry, desperate animal.
He's kind of the Vegeta of MHW.
Deviljho was built to do that, though. It'd be kinda weird for him to be regularly outclassed when he's portrayed as an animal that can singlehandedly throw habitats out of balance in multiple games. There's not really a huge issue with some predators outclassing others. Even the elder dragons, who are generally speaking all above deviljho in ability, get preyed upon by other elders in some cases.
@@bigchungus6827 You know what else can regularly throw several habitats out of balance?
The spotted lantern fly. And that fucker doesn’t even have hands to throw.
@@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick As does any keystone species. Hardly my point.
@@bigchungus6827 It would be one thing if the games weren’t so willing to totally hamstring their other monsters in fights with Deviljho to show off how kickass he apparently is.
Like, Rathalos needs to GROUND HIMSELF to lose to Deviljho. Why would Rathalos, a predominantly aerial combatant, put himself at such an obvious disadvantage? Because Capcom said so.
Odogaron is when Clifford gets ahold of cigarettes at an early age 🤣
he is clifford if you feed him past midnight
The way odo’s interaction with radobaan plays out makes me think that baan are a much more timid species compared to its ore covered cousin due to it not having much competition, and odogaron attacking it mainly due to its poor eyesight only seeing a danger (not talking about iceborne though, that stuff is all over the place)
The reason Stygian zinogre doesn’t go mad from dragon is because it’s an external way of gathering the element, it’s melees rarely give dragon blight and only because some dracophage bugs live in Stygian fur
The "odogaron can barely discern light from dark" is pretty... unbelievable considering how it is able to aim attacks without having any sort of obvious extrasensory organs like whiskers or any hint of something like electromagnetic detection. Even animals who just have eye SPOTS can discern light from dark. I can totally believe that they have blurry, colourless vision though.
I think that Bazelgeuse is my top pic for World newcomer, but I do really like Odogaron and the niche it fills (plus, both have great sound design). I suppose they both fill similar niches that were mostly held by Deviljho in previous games, but without being creatures that rely so heavily on size and brute strength. Ultimately, they all feel very different and these two are great additions to spice up the ecosystems of Monster Hunter rather than having the only invading monster be the thick pickle.
when you mentioned how effluvium could be parasitizing what little odogaron could eat I was little sad that you forgot about great girros, I think that great girros could be a kleptoparasite to odogaron and the two might be influencing each others evolution. the ancient ancestor to girros might have had a more mild venom that wasn't as useful but as more and more odogaron began to appear the girros with stronger venom would intern be favoured. and this might let to a once defensive attribute to become a offensive one and when caught in the more open area's of the vale great girros and his pack might mob and even kill odogaron and when odogaron has a especially good prize like legiana or tzitzi ya ku corpse they might fight until the last girros. great girros also seems to have a very muscular frame and in acidic glavenus's cinematic great girros was able to at the least make a glavenus stumble after a pounce so if given the chance he could make a powerful strike on odogaron. odogaron can't do much to ward off a assault either as girros use a wide range of calls to communicate with each other and when there is a large pack of girros snapping and hissing with dangerous venom you tend to forget about the big one that's about to pounce and inject you with a bucketload of dangerous venom.
ALSO YES LET'S GO PRIMAL IS UP NEXT!!!
G Girros definitely got a bit forgotten here. I do also think there's some implied rivalry with Odo's paralysis weakness especially, and wonder if there may be a scrapped turf war somewhere that didn't come to fruition thanks to Zorah.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel I assume there was a turf war planned for the two as there almost a 99% chance that you will encounter both when hunting either. I think it would be more fun if girros did mob Odogaron in their turf war or in general having pack monsters call in reinforcements when dealing with larger threats. Great wroggi should have had his pack when he encounters anjanath. And in general I’d love to see pack monsters fighting each other with their minions watching their unique attributes being put on full display
Yeah In general I think The whole dynamic is the Odogaron is like a leopard or small tiger fending off a pack of wolves. Mean while Acidic Glavneus Strikes me as being the Brown Bear or Large Big Cat. A large predator that also is a kleptoparasite of smaller/pack hunters kills.
It seems that, at least prior to Zorah Magdoros's arrival and the ecological disturbances that it brought, the Rotten Vale had reached a relatively stable point in its evolutionary arms race. Odogaron are larger and more powerful than any Girros, but Girros' paralytic venom seems to been selected for because of Odogaron's vulnerability, so both wyverns pose sufficient threat to want to give each other a wide berth if possible, unless Odogaron opportunistically predates on lone Girros separated from their pack.
Meanwhile, Radobaan likely developed its unusual adaptations for sticking bones to itself because these large, hard bones would provide protection from both the lacerating claws of Odogaron and the relatively short fangs of the Girros. However, it still gets bullied by both because it has lost many traits that would be useful in actively defending itself, leading me to believe that Radobaan may have been in the Rotten Vale far longer than Girros or Odogaron, with Girros likely being the more recent arrival because they haven't yet selected widely for a resistance to the effluvium. If Radobaan had been in the Vale for a long time without any large predators (except Vaal Hazak, which is likely why Radobaan sticks to the upper reaches of the Vale), that may explain why it selected for traits to enable its unusual diet, rather than traits that would allow it to protect itself.
With the arrival of larger predators like Tigrex and Acidic Glavenus in the Vale, however, these dynamics will likely shift.
Could be that Great Girros and Acidic Glavenus share paralysis and being monsters from the vale due to both taking in and filttering efluvium for their benefits, explaining why we regularly see Girros succumb to efluvium despite them primarily living in the middle layer of the vale.
Actually, Odogaron can ignore Ghillie Mantle, if you stand close and he sniffs you. I can't remember any other Monster to do this.
He is likely like a Ferret, very small, but able to handle much larger Prey, making it a very sucessfull Predator, but also not the most effective in Fights against bigger Rivals.
/About 4Us sunken Hollow.
There are very weird Choices, but also a few who make a lot of Sense.
Tetsucabra, Khezu, and Nerscylla fit in very easily. Congalala and Gypceros are a little weird, but they eat primary Mushrooms and the Cave provides them en Mass.
Only the Raths and Tigrex are weird.
Didn't know that about Odo, but it's a nice touch on the devs part.
After reading it and being a bit sceptical of it's validity, I tried to test this out myself and it seems to actually be true..... Barely. Odogaron seems to constantly sniff around and walk into my direction but he doesn't actually spot me. Occasionally the odogaron will actually see me and engage in combat but will lose track immediately and start sniffing again (after roaring due to seeing you)
@@condoslime776 Also I can only tell from Memory, but how I remembered it, he will sniff, and if you in Front of him, he will find you and roar, and at that Point my Memory got fuzzy.
I belife Combat starts, but I cant remember. Maybe he will after a few Roars, or him roaring depleats the Mantle faster, or no Combat, domt know...
@@Sunaki1000 Odogaron does a special sniffing animation before starting combat briefly. That sniffing animation actually has a hitbox so if you are in front of him while he does that, it'll actually knock you down and the mantle with it.
@@condoslime776 Yeah, then that was what happened.
Good thing we discovered that little Secret.
Marry incomming Christmas.
Another theory about the Odogaron in my mind is that they form hunting pairs, a male and a female. The male Odogaron will leave the rotten vale to hunt in the coral highlands while the female patrols their habitat in the rotten vale. If the male makes a kill it will drop the carcass down into the vale for its partner. Like a harrier hawk.
7:30 the "not this one lol" just makes me laugh so much.
yeet
As always a pretty good video, it was pretty unexpected how you jabbed at the "zoological" channels on youtube with their "tier lists" ad "match-ups". Another commenter also pointed out how Odogaron might be a gorgonopsid, Odogaron might have had a similar role to early more reptile-like therapsids like dimetrodon and gorgonops being the evolutionary link between Fanged wyverns (like Zinogre, tobi kadachi etc.) and fanged beasts (arzuros, lagombi etc.).It would also correspond with the fate of the gorgonposids in our world where a mass extinction(probably the ice age that you always keep mentioning or a an even more ancient extinction more alkie the P-T extinction) managed to take down their numbers so much that more evolved species took over (pseudo flying wyverns) and the remaining therapsids needed to either evolve to better suite the colder enviroment (fanged beasts) or just move to another enviroment.
The new world might be the last place in the MH world where ebony odogaron/red odogaron live since it is the only place where odogaron reside and a resort from the more advanced pseudo flying wyverns. It may be a tale similar to deviljho were they are the last of their species surviving in the last place on the continent where they could be saved from the pseudo wyverns which not only are bigger but are better adapted to more enviroments such as tigrex.
Until tigrex becomes an invasive species and outcompetes Odogaron for the final time cousing their extinction, or capcom is going to put them in the shrine ruins because fans wanted odogaron and this whol theory is disproven.
Damn - very nice theory! Certainly given me a lot to consider.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel what are yor thoughts on real life animals on the mh universe again?
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158he has said that real animals can easily exist because they're not gonna be competing with the giant wyverns, but the smaller monsters (Oversimplifications)
@@delmerputnam1679 what about the whales?
@@marcusaaronliaogo9158 They're a bit more ambiguous, but clearly, they exist based on the appearance of the Arluq hammer and the ship Arluq in 4U, which is obviously meant to look like a sperm whale of some kind
I propose another factor for odogaron aggression: its chief competition in carrion is most likely girros, which travel in packs and use paralyzing venom to which odogaron is poorly resistant to. Despite its size advantage against even the great girros, an odogaron contesting a pack for prime carrion would be taking a massive risk of being mobbed. It may have evolved such overtly aggressive behavior to prevent costly altercations by scaring smaller numbers of girros away so that it can eat or cache a meal before the pack arrives.
Agreed, odogarons aggression seems to be to make up for its physical shortcomings in these interactions, it’s not large, but it can hurt most other carnivores, and that’s probably enough to keep it out of most trouble.
These videos really are something special! As for Odoggo he's a badass! Really love the Rotten Vale and it's inhabitants.
I think you're right about what you said about the different ecosystems in World.
The Ancient Forest and the Wildspire Waste feel like your typical woods/desert biome but now with more depth and variety than the older games, the roles of each monster are more defined and the food chain and behavior of each of its links are more established than before, this makes these 2 areas feel like improved versions of previous similar biomes.
The Coral Highlands and Rotten Vale are the opposite, two new eccentric and refreshing areas based on a concept of interconnected yet totally different ecosystems that feed each other, instead of being an improvement on previous biomes they feel like more experimental and innovative ideas.
And the there is the Elders Recess which is just "rocky place with powerful monsters", the other biomes offer more variety throught each area whilst in the Recess there is only rocks, crystals and lava, i think it's just a bland area and i think they just ran out of time to give it more thought and to give the zone the depth and detail it needed to shine.
As always love your videos man, keep up the good work.
Yeah from concept art it did seem like there was a lot planned for the recess that just got thrown under the bus with Zorah and time pressure. Big shame really, hopefully we may get a volcano zone that ticks all the boxes someday.
And thanks!
I know I'm late but odogaron isn't a dog, it's a weasel. Just really big. It's based off a Japanese spirit from mythology that is basically a blade fingered weasel who can cut you so clean and fast you don't start bleeding for a minute, according to the myth. It's also why I has a chortling sound instead of a bark.
Yeah, kyūki or kamaitachi. Sharp dust devil riding things, leaving painless wounds.
No, that's only part of it. Concept art of Odie was indeed based off of Hyenas and other canids, and its sounds profile definitely has a fat dollop of Hyena too. The Kamaitachi is an element, sure, but it's not the guiding one.
@@rolfnevehyenas are felinid though not canid but yes odo has a lot of dog and hyena in it with its sleekness being from weasel inspirations
@@victory8928 They're feliform, not felid, but yes. They're also morphologically and behaviourally more like canids, because convergent evolution essentially morphed them into feliform dogs.
Or perhaps a wolverine even. Wolverines are in the same family as weasels, after all - the muestelids.
Odogaron was the one monster that made me go from hating the rotten vale to appreciating the area (although I still hate effluvium as a mechanic).
One monster that has always struck me as an odd one out of the new monsters was Banbaro, he looks like hes built for the cold, yet he can be found in basically every area and seem to not care about any sort of climate. Any idea if there's any logic to this or if its just capcom needing another roamer. I guess the mechanic of his "mud ball" attack changing effects with the terrain might have been the reason, but ecology wise it kindof seems to not make much sense. Could be an interesting video, but you probably already have a long list to get through already.
Bison roam around in kind of temperate warm weather as well as snowy winter enviornments, maybe thats a lead.
TBH, as someone who hadn't gotten very far into looking into the other MH games when I started Iceborne, I thought that Banbaro was a monster from an early game because it's just... kind of boring? Like, besides that attack of rolling things up with its horns it doesn't have very interesting attacks and it uses that fairly basic "flying wyvern" body type.
One thing that popped into my mind when you mentioned Odogaron's eyesight is that we do actually know how good its sight is. In the first encounter with one in World, we get a POV scene of it stalking the Handler. Its eyes are surprisingly sharp and with vision in a spectrum comparable to the human eye. Perhaps its eyesight adapted to discern other monsters like Radobaan and Vaal Hazak that would otherwise look, feel, and smell like any other carcass in the vale. Great video, your channel pairs all the things I loved as a kid and still do now: animals, monsters, and science!
Yeah - I feel capcom don’t know just how good the eyesight is in the cutscene for what would be considered ‘poor vision’.
It’s interesting seeing how tigrex being in almost every niche in MH.He’s basically every where and is able to fight most animals off in the environments he mainly inhabits whether it be for food or territory and is even stated to be the main predator of gammoth juveniles.But can switch to being a well suited hunter to a scavenger it really is strange how he goes from one another. Also great video and will watch your primal video
Well many carnivores can easily scavange I think thats pretty logical. And likely also intentional considering Tyrannosaurus.
Opportunistic carnivores exist
Originally Tigrex was supposed to only live in the desert but move to colder climates to hunt. This was changed in 4th gen where it was basically put everywhere.
I really like the idea of normal animals existing in the world of monster hunter, less for its ecological implications, but more for the idea of being at the gathering hub and hearing that another hunter had failed a hunt because they got attacked by a lion while trying to hunt something 12 times it’s size because normal animals don’t have clearly telegraphed attack patterns
You can already experience this with Bullfango!
I always felt the Odogaron vs Radobaan turf war was inspired by weasels hunting rabbits. The way it jumps on and and bites into the back of the head and neck feels very reminiscent of that, though weasels will cling when they make a kill.
I know there's a theory about Ebony Odogaron actually being caused by some regular Odogaron having their nests and food deposits contain Dalamadur meteors in them, since Dalamadur is quite the factory of Dragon Element given its size. The meteors left in its little hovel are still there, and the only ones we see still where we can explore from what I recall, so it's probably pretty safe to assume there is either some sort of special preservation going on with them, or they are strangely potent because of some build-up when the creatures were alive - as many "Gem" and "Mantle" monster material items are described. We know they are still active as well, since they can be triggered to explode given enough force. They are close enough to where Odogaron sleeps and eats that it could easily either absorb radiation from them or accidentally ingest small break-offs of them over long periods of time.
This could interact with Odogaron's ability to fire up its metabolism pretty extremely, to the point of becoming capable of much faster bursts of movement, exhaling puffs of steam, and even giving off light. This appears to be hinted at as more of a thermal reaction than one of Dragon Element specifically in base Odogaron, as all three of those are pretty highly related to heat, and Odogaron weapons Awaken into Fire Element - allowing Hunters to bring out the Fire inside of Odogaron materials when certain conditions are met, much like Odogaron when he brings the heat, so to speak.
The Vale is made up of at least two twisting skeletons of Dalamadur - with what seem to be many others sprawling off in some the few look-outs we can see in the cavern network, with those others meandering off over pools of water or acid or who knows what in configurations that make it appear unlikely that it's just two, especially knowing the fact that the whole New World is basically just centered around one massive Elder Dragon grave-yard that they migrate to die at. It would be a pretty easy leap to guess that there could be many more of the meteors tucked away somewhere else in the Vale, or that possibly exposure to such Dragon Element could mutate Odogaron in such a way that the trait can be passed down, since we know it to be capable of messing with a creature's genetics and behaviors.
Also, don't quite get the comments about Ebony being better than other Sub-Species, they don't feel explained very well. It's literally just the same old change the coat of paint and give it a different Element song and dance that's been in since Tri, and I don't think it does it particularly well either. In fact, it feels almost like the most cop-out version of that. They took a monster without Element, so the easiest to write up justifications onto, and put Dragon on it, the thing that has the least explanation so requires no thought and the team can just shrug and say "Dragon Element" to excuse it because of its mysterious workings. Almost just feels like they're trying Deviljho again, but somewhat opposite. Instead of a big, bulky hungry muscle thing that scavenges a lot and has Dragon, THIS TIME it's a small, lithe hungry muscle thing that scavenges a lot and has Dragon.
I have quite a big list of complaints with Odogaron, even just the base one, but most are in the fundamentals of visual design and themes and its role in the Vale, not its biology or behavior or anything, at least, not in bulk. Though, that's mostly beside the point.
But, most Sub-Species have kind of routinely sucked throughout the series (and I'm saying this as a huge fan of the series), not on their own, just in comparison to how little most add compared the merits of their base monster that they HEAVILY piggy-back off of. They've always been pretty lazy and nonsensical, though I do enjoy them from a game-play stand-point - slightly different version of a fight that opens up avenues for new gear with very little cost to the development - but from a lore or ecology perspective, they're mostly sub-par.
Now, if you want GOOD variations of monsters, Deviants are where they're at. You get actually meaningfully changed models and behaviors AND reasons for why. That's the good stuff.
if always seen Odogaron agressive behavior in turf wars as desperation, due to a lack of food in the vale. and its willingness to challenge almost everything in hopes of securing a meal
Also a very good adaptation to cause competition to back off. E.g. the African honey badger (or ratel) is one of the most hyper aggressive animals in the world and frequently chases much larger predators like lions away from their kills as the predators determine that its not worth the energy or potential injury in a world without antibiotic and doctors. Odagaron likely takes advantage of this threatening with jagged claws and teeth causing open wounds to be infected with effluvium. This probably helps curb competition from it's more numerous pack hunters of Girros
Adore these videos, please keep them going 🙏
More to come!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel hey a genuin question, I’ve seen the videos in the past and afew of them have raised questions like the barrioth and it’s skull and how that would matter to its structure for the fangs, when it was already explained in the beggining how it drips down for a fanged slam, making a near perfect structure for a strike.
The honey badger claim in this video seems abit off center to try to make a point with a predator that would resemble what ide think more a mongoose. I to do biology, and African honey badgers do indeed show an aggressive disposition and often would chase things if it feels not just threatened but if it could just be something it no longer wants in its area or feel to be a future threat. Kindof the same thing but it’s not really out of fear or last choice, they make lots of aggressive decisions to approach even male lions to harrass and attack them. Other badgers in the snowy regions up north also wait for birds to have wolves rip open a carcass before going into there vicinity for a meal. Hyenas we’re also a great example and are known to chase creatures for the life of it along with there packs, but also single hyenas have been seen to harass other bigger predetors (granted it does end up ass backwards for them lol). I just don’t see who such an amazing message was used by like putting up tiger zoo, a explicitly fact and battle comparison channel, or joe Rohan that talks with both very intelligent and well- very stupid people for there opinions. I think the video was great in the things gone over, but like.. idk why wasn’t there any better example used for the creature talked about, and then the targeting of random channels and the inaccuracy’s of otherwise very intelligent and prove not aggressive/regenerative creatures?
I too love Odogaron. Favorite newcomer and one of my favorite non elder monsters. Favorite new elder is my effluvium boy
I love how Monster Hunter: World has made everyone's expectations of the series EXPLODE
I can't believe this videos aren't more popular, there is son much cool information both as facts and speculation, and the perfect mesh of fantasy and reality it's mind-blowing, really loving this videos, keep up the good work, it's being appreciated 🙌🏼
This video was 10/10 in quality. You deserve more credit than what you are receiving now. I can't imagine how much work must go into making these videos. I hope you get the amount of recognition you deserve in the near future. I learned a metric ton about Odogaron, more than I ever thought I would. It was a surprising and enjoyable experience. You have my respect sir, you go above and beyond.
I genuinely love your videos, but I can't help but notice increasing snark and even hostility as things go forward. You've been very vocal about your negative views regarding turf wars and the like, and that made sense - but it seems to be amplifying with each video and now you're even taking cracks at other channels? It just feels a little off, and certainly doesn't carry the air of professionalism I expect from you.
Please tell me this isn't going to be an increasing trend. At the very least, I hope you can express yourself a little bit better when it comes to things you disagree with. I know this will be an unpopular opinion, but I do genuinely love your content so this is intended to come off as constructive criticism more than hate.
I can assure it won't increase. The past 3 videos effectively had a 3 part rant on the gameplay tacked on due to its relation to the monsters, and now that's it's said it doesn't need to be rehashed or repeated.
The other channels in question can make content that in some cases, due to the scale and inaccuracy of the misinformation, I feel can potentially harm public perceptions of the animal involved and thus its conservation. So whilst I don't feel any guilt in doing so you're right in that it wasn't very professional of me to do so in that manner.
Hopefully your opinion won't be unpopular, and I appreciate you voicing your concerns to me.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Thank you for the respectful reply. I genuinely didn't want to ruffle any feathers there so I was concerned about how it might come off.
I think in the face of misinformation, especially around animals (bringing up public perception and the potential of that influencing conservation is very valid) it's understandable to be vocal about such things and not let them fly. I am curious, though, can you expand on why you think TierZoo belongs in that critique?
I ask because TZ seems to be the less harmful out of them all, as their content is clearly intended to be a joke and not taken seriously - at least as far as I've interpreted it. Not just that, but while I haven't really dived into too much of their content, the few videos I did care enough to actively watch and not treat as background noise didn't present any misinformation to my knowledge.
If I'm incorrect about this, I wouldn't mind being enlightened.
Anyway, thanks again for the response. I do genuinely love your channel and try to put time aside for it whenever I see you've got a new video. I think I've already left this same comment once or twice before, but 'your channel is exactly the kind of content I was hoping to see more of regarding Monster Hunter' - and I'm also glad to see you branching out into other franchises, too!
@@Akherousia502 Essentially a lot of the information re: animals TZ gives out is often outdated, inaccurate and rarely supported or references any published science. The cheetah video is a good example of this; despite what TZ claims they have no problems hunting in rough or thick terrain and aren't just open plain specialists. They also have large litters and populations persist despite cub predation, and their kills getting stolen is a negligible energetic cost. To try and claim them as having a 'problem' is fundamentally wrong. Their only real problem is humans. Making them out to be deficient or useless when you have a 1M fanbase is pretty worrying, as how many of those may view them as not really worth protecting if they're just dead ends? Not to mention the science proving a lot of said points wrong.
The videos do seem to be for fun, but then he's also said how pleased he is that they're shown in schools too. So he does seem to believe they have some educational value which is a bit questionable.
I may be too strict on such things, but I also feel misinformation at any rate is pretty bad. And thanks again!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel To be honest with you, I was prepared to argue against them not presenting sources to back their claims on the grounds that it's supposed to be a big joke about life being a video game.
However, you won me over with your second last point. When you brought up that he's pleased his material is being shown in schools, that does suggest that he thinks he's presenting information of educational value and that 100% justifies taking a stance against it. I'm behind you in that misinformation should be addressed as such, and I hadn't realized TZ was taking itself quite that seriously.
While I still think the tone of the critique was a bit harsh, I definitely support your right and reasoning for calling them out (albeit indirectly, so it wasn't really THAT bad) and I can safely say you've changed my perception quite a bit, for what it's worth.
Thanks for this exchange, it was quite illuminating!
I loved odogaron, he looks canid and is reallyfun to fight, his armor looks strange compared to how it looks but stillis really cool. His sound effects and behaviour is great.
How am I just finding this inanely underrated channel? This is incredible content
Thank you!
Odogaron is one of my favorite monsters.
Recently discovered your channel and have been liking it keep it up.
I love your videos btw please keep them coming! I'm binging all of your monster hunter ones.
36:00 Rewatching this Video and listening to this made me chuckle indeed.
Can't waiting for the Primal video! I did not see that coming. That show is a modern classic.
wow, I am extremly impressed by the research in your videos as well as the active and full of discussion comment section. I don't have much to add as I don't really know much about biology so I just want to say that I absolutely love this channel
Thank you! I hope if nothing else it can hope teach more too
I’ve got almost no background on monster hunter, but I love ecology, so this is a good introduction to the series.
I just discovered this channel and already love how it goes beyond the game! as a worldbuilder, I really love the discussion
Dude, absolutely stellar channel. Just got done literally watching every single video. I'm a pathologist by trade but with those degrees came a lot of generalized animal morphology and behavior classes at the vet school. I don't know if this is a weird thing to say, but I'm honestly so glad there is actual discussion and analysis by someone with actual expertise in a relevant field. Reminds me of when I was an undergrad, to prepare for our first conference, we all made presentations on different aspects of bigfoot based on studies of bears and H. florensiensis. My "findings" were that contemporary "bigfoot literature" suggested it was possible for bigfoot to contract CWD from predating a white tailed deer. Lmao. Anyway! Love your channel, will show off your videos to my fiance when he comes back from work tonight :)
Thank you so much!
And not at all, that's probably the most frequent thing said in the early days at least by regulars, that they wanted a channel just like this.
And that sounds like a very worthwhile paper
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Making me wish I could go back and do well in school to pursue a degree in ecology myself. Even the scientific text you bring up on screen is interesting enough to hold my attention despite the jargon being harder to parse, which is unusual. Normally I find the increased difficulty outweighs my casual interest, but this subject has been sufficiently engrossing to overpower it. And all the references to real world ecology are teaching me so much about animals that I didn't know.
My favourite is any situations where one specific animal, usually a lone predator or specialised pack of predators, is eating something that the rest of the species doesn't. I enjoyed learning about the lionesses that go after buffalo for example.
I'm also seriously lamenting the lack of any video games that use ecology as the basis for the gameplay loop. The daily life of an animal is like the perfect survival game. I've somehow never seen this get used. It's perfect for a game.
The night-day use would be most useful in the ancient forest! While I do appreciate that map, it always feel like I'm being thrown into a bloated battle royale, having to prep a dung pod the moment I see a monster. While it's nice to see monster interaction, they almost all are trying to kill each other, so it's kinda refreshing to be tag teamed by Rathalos/Rathian or having Deviljho use a smaller monster like a club. So the idea or some monsters purposefully avoiding each other or just being isolated due to different sleeping schedules would be very fun to observe as well.
All hail the giant, red honey badger, and the icon of Black Airforce Energy himself; Odogaron.
Another great vid. On that note about fanged wyverns in the old world vs the new I speculated that this clade could be in the decline in the old world, out competed during the ice age by the many mammalian carnivores that were increasing more and more in bio diversity. This decline could even explain the presence of brute wyverns. It may be that the new world is there last saving grace. (This theory might also explain why Great Jagress isn't in rise)
Thank you! And there is some good fan speculation on that indeed, I'm definitely coming round on the idea they may be outcompeted in the old world.
Haven’t played MH in months, don’t really know why I clicked this, but man it was fantastic! Time to check out your channel to see if it’s all the same good quality!
Thank you! I hope the rest will live up to this one!
13:55 At the museum I work at I sometimes need to explain this to people who ask me who would win a fight between a Tyrannosaurus Rex and a pack of raptors.
Fun times I imagine...
The T-rex because so far there's no fossil evidence for raptors working in packs. No modern equivalents pack hunting either.
@@nuke2099 There is actually a modern equivalent, some desert eagles hunt in packs, but besides that, there is little to no fossil proof.
35:18
I really like this idea as some of it was present in Monster Hunter Frontier. They had a special variant of hypnocatrice appear during spring that were just males in their breeding season plumage. They also had a map called “the highlands” which have some monsters that change their behavior and combat based on the weather.
Edit:
I also forgot there also was a hypnocatrice subspecies that only appears during winter
Ahhh odogaron is one of my favorite monster, I'm excited for this vid
If you're open to suggestions, I'd like to see one on Tzitzi. Flashbang is best boy and I'd like to know exactly how unrealistic his headlights really are.
Truly I neglecting Tzitzi in the other bird wyverns vids, I should try and fit him in somewhere.
Could maybe slot him in a legiana or paolumu video if you ever do one of the two?
@@Cubey3 Legiana for sure will get a future video
In terms of it using the flashbang as a tool is accurate : even a flashlight in night time can be used as a self defence tool , it's a temporary blinding needed as a defence/offence tool ,
The most unrealistic thing is anatomical : with such a powerful bioluminescence being unlikely tbh
Odogaron is my absolute favourite monster for the reasons you listed, but on top of that, the armour and weapon sets from his carcass are amazing too
as always amazing video not gonna lie i also fell into this trend of thinking that honey badgers were unstoppable due to the aforementioned channels and this has given me a fresh new perspective on these lil bugger's, also i complete agree with take on monster roasters feeling bloated and yoooooooooooooooooooooo can't wait for the primal video.
I think the best way to have both a large roster and ecological sense would be to actually have more maps. that was something I really liked about Generations is there was often more than one map for a given biome type.
Odogaron is SUCH a good monster and I don’t know why Capcom seems to hate him. He got shafted in both Rise and Stories 2 for some inexplicable reason. Great video regardless
Stories 2 was really odd, but with everything Rise did I'm not too peeved a lot of monsters were left out. Would rather see him again in World 2.
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Hello, what are your thoughts on bishaten?
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Well were getting Lunagaron in Sunbreak. A colder werewolf based cousin.
Odogaron is in rise? Huh?
Nice you did a video on the giant weasel. :D I also think that Fanged Wyverns are supposed to be proto-mammals (Synapsid/Therapsids) in the MH world with the more primitive ones like Jagras being similar to Dimetrodon. The original description for them said they're Wyverns with the traits of mammals but this was changed to the more boring "They're Wyverns that primarily move around on strong four legs". Also something of interest is that all the monsters before MHW with "Garon" in their name came from Frontier and they were all Fanged Beasts. And now we have Lunagaron to look forward to which is a Fanged Wyvern like Odogaron is.
About invaders I don't like how since 4th gen they started sticking Tigrex (and others) everywhere. In 2nd gen it lived primarily in the desert (which makes sense with it's colours) but would go to cold area's to hunt. And you're right that since 4th gen they just decided to stick everything almost anywhere.
I wonder what will become of the vale in the future since it seems like a fairly temporary ecosystem, I can imagine it becoming some kind of swamp due to being at the bottom of a big ravine so water would flow down from above. a half underground bog littered with bones would make a great location in a future game.
Another amazing video as always, super interesting to see your analogs. If you are open to suggestions I'd love to see your take either on the Amphibians or Najarala, as the combination of both its coiling, intimidation and venomous abilities would make awesome parallels to our own snakes, as well as maybe answering why doesn't it just stick to one snake-hunting style and opts for a mix of both
Najarala is a decent monster and one I'll probably look into in the future, the fat froggies will also get their own video at somepoint too.
As always, fantastic video. I love this series, every upload puts a smile on my face!
Odo isn't my favorite monster by a long shot, partially because I find his fight pretty bland and I don't love his aesthetic. That being said, his ecology is certainly interesting and I'm glad you pointed out how he's not so much "aggressive" towards larger wyverns like Tigrex or Vaal so much as he is defensive, as with any intelligent animal. I've also never seen the animation of him dragging a Legiana corpse through the vale! Janky as it is, it's always cool to see how much thought was put into the ecology in base World.
As for the rant near the end, as much as Iceborne is my favorite game of all time, I have to admit the ecology was somewhat lacking compared to base World, ESPECIALLY in terms of invaders. It's so annoying, because I love Banbaro's design but seeing him literally everywhere made me hate his guts. And not in a fun, rival way like with Bazel, but more in a "what the fuck are you doing here there's literally lava flowing 2 meters away." type of interaction. That being said, the Guiding Lands have me ridiculously hyped for MH6, as the MH team famously tests ideas, refines them and integrates them into later games or expansions. I fully buy into the idea that either 6 or 7 will be fully open world, and I can't fucking wait. Capcom will surely want to tap into the market of people excited for Elden Ring and BOTW 2 as they share a lot of fans with each already, and an open world really just suits Monster Hunter as the final evolution of the genre. If we can get an open world MH game with large monster mounts and underwater exploration/combat, I'll be satisfied for the rest of my life. Flying on a Rathalos over a world even more beautiful than MHW's would be a dream come true...
Yeah I think it can't be denied the series is heading to open world. And also yeah, wtf was banbarro doing half the time...
And thanks!
I loved the video, Odogaron has been one of my favorite monsters ever since I first fought it and this video pointed out even more for me to appreciate about it! Also it looks like MH6 is probably going to be an open world one, and it looks like weather could very well be an important part to consider when exploring so that's very exciting.
World was definitely the best and I agree with all your points, but I think its the first time I've heard anyone describe Rajang as delicate haha
I had to ask, isn’t there something in the game that states Odo’s hightened or enraged state is also used a last resort? I believe that if so this enraged state is not only the remains of the dragon element that resides with ebony, but also a new adaptation that meets its new scavenger lifestyle to sort of be a way to bully other larger carnivores away. Now here me out, I think that the Odogaron’s enraged state floods it’s body with all sorts of chemicals, mainly adrenaline that may cause the Odogaron to release steam as its body heat rises from it burning a lot of calories to exert explosive amounts of energy, and adrenaline is known to make humans do amazing things one of course being the complete ignorance of pain. Plus this also would make the Odogaron faster and stronger as it bursts out more energy and force. This would allow it mindlessly but constantly be on the offensive as it would shrug off non-fatal wounds and just repeatedly dish out large blows that would very much discourage the larger predators thus driving them away and maybe even killing them if the Odogaron lands a brutal swipe or kills it with of of it’s “combos”. There is evidence that this does burn energy and is meant to be a last resort as after it becomes enraged it becomes extremely tired. In other term an enraged Odogaron is like giving a honey badger steroids and painkillers, its smaller but the pain ignorance and the extra strength would make it better at “scaring” away larger animals. It’s just a theory but it makes a lot of sense to me.
13:53 Tier Zoo has waxed poetic about size being the most important attribute in combat, and intelligence in overall survival.
Can you talk about the night feeder when you cover primal. It’s personally my favorite fictional creature from the show. Such a cool blend of raptor and therizinosaurus and to add the tar/oil substance covering it
Of course!
just found these while i was looking up stuff as im getting ready to run a monster hunter D&D world awesome job
Odie leaps around like a frog and it's really funny.
I love the demon dog, and I LOVE this video! Ecology, whether fictional or real, just receives a bunch of love from me. I really aspire to create my own roster of fanmade monsters and I take much inspiration from these videos for their design. But with your video "Environment shapes the monster", i may have to do habitat before monster.
So cheers, and much love for your content from me!
I love this video and you called it on them moving towards an open-world concept.
So excited for the primal video!!!
Kind of tragically funny that youre saying its aggression and readiness to fight may be related to its poor eyesight.
Must be an anxiety ridden life.
Can confirm, I'm short sighted and readily attack anything.
Odogaron: The living embodiment of "FAFO", from both sides.
Also one of my favorite monsters ever.
I've stumbled onto your vids and by god is this fantastic!! As someone who absolutely loves monster hunter from a speculative Evolutinary and ecological viewpoint before loving it for a game these videos and your other deep dives into fictional biology are fantastic. Truly Capcom needs to not.only see these videos but make some sort of spinoff safari game about these fantastic creatures with you at the healm of it!! Lol
Thank you! And that would be the dream...
Its interesting how Odogaron Still Makes a variety of Sounds like Howls or Snarls since having a variety of sounds usually means a Social animal. Tho might be just Capcom being Capcom.
Have you considered by the way on doing a Video on Shagaru Magala and Gore Magala? It whould be interesting to hear how realistic is animal Created Bacteria/Virus.
i think that may just be a case of capcom being capcom, though than again odogaron only makes like three-four noises, a howl for warning, a snarl in combat, and a whine when injured. odds are some of these sounds could have more than one purpose for example a howl normally to warn off things coming into it's territory might also serve the purpose of drawing a mate come time to breed. similarly a snarl might be used to warn young of danger or even just to stop an action the young are doing.
Odogaron actually has some sounds of a weasel
@@blackblade99009 yeah thats possible. Also kinda the same thing with Zinogre.
I do plan to maybe do a frenzy / gore / shagaru video at somepoint in the future, although unsure when.
The chittering sounds it does is something weasels do. Odogaron is pretty much a giant weasel.
I've always seen this guy as being like a mink. Small, but pretty well adapted to take down significantly larger prey.
E.Odogaron in Coral highlands picks fight with every moving thing. Had my friends help me farm E.Odo for its armor set. During the entire fight it got bodied by a Legiana,Savage Deviljho, and a Nargacuga. By the time it starts limping S.Devil suddenly appears out of nowhere and kills it.
It's probably my favorite Monster and Armor Set
I’ll take all of your ecology videos as my head canon from now
I don’t care what future games have to say
In tri some areas in moga woods were blocked by debris, I think they could use this to flash out the environment, have some lower ranked hunts at the edges and while people (in the story) clear out the debris as you go to higher ranked hunts.
Considering it's a volcano you would expect debris after an eruption.
There was a concept for monster hunter where the game was much more open and much more time related than others. The game would have a system that worked off of time much more than just whatever mission you might have gone on. The system worked in an interesting way where you would have two time systems that worked together. There was a mission time system and a village time system. Every mission minute counted for a certain equivalent of village time and the other way around. Different missions and different crafting materials and recipes and all sorts of other things would be available to the player based only off of one or both invisible timers. The system time was used to calculate how the different sub timers would work. If I remember correctly there were two more timers one was a total time of play/play session the last timer was dealing with an event to event timer. Basically even if you had a certain event or event type recently you couldn't get another like it to happen until a few different things had been satisfied. An example was that you say received a special event maylynx fight club event mission and it had a time limit of 3 mission hours (and/ or) 3 village hours and then you take a mission that rewards you with 2 mission hours and 5 village hours that mission might show up the next time you get back to town because it counts 2 village hours as one mission hour. This was the basic idea but I don't remember much more about the way it worked.
I hope you do one explaining Ibushi and narwa,their effect that they have in the places that they decide to choose as a nest, their preys, the common turf wars that they have with Monsters like amatsu, it could be very cool
So it turns out honey badger does, in fact, give a fuck
Can't wait too see what you do for Primal!
I've gotta admit, Odogaron is my favourite monster just ever. Shame he ain't in rise yet
Took me too long to get to this but this was a fantastic analysis on Odogaron. I was always a little offput by Ebony but your headcanon of it as the type species really fits and makes a lot more sense, and having it as an invader fits with the facultative scavenger life style, though perhaps restricting its range somewhat to more consistent geography with said lifestyle.
I definitely agree with the comment on bloated monster rosters and especially with Iceborne just throwing monsters into every ecosystem, it's especially problematic in expansions where typically a region will gain more carnivores than it does herbivores to make the expansion feel meaningful. I've actually had an idea for a return with the seasons-based mechanic you suggested but turned up even more with maps completely changing with said seasons along with changes to the monsters present and even some undergoing seasonal changes as well. There's so much potential for that concept.
I actually think the bulk of things in the Vale are diverged from type species, even including Vaal...but more on him and the vale whenever I get to him.
And yeah, I love the idea of a proper season based world that affects the maps properly too. Areas becoming flooded or frozen, vegetation changes, migratory monsters...so much can be done!
@@unnaturalhistorychannel Oh interesting, very curious to see that when it comes. Radobaan I can see as well as it already seems to be closely related to Radobaan, but what about Girros? Of all the species in the Vale, it's the only one I can reasonably see surviving in other environments if ever brought back in future games, especially if we get another cave-based map like the Sunken Hollow.
The apex of the rotten vale, even made bazelgeese look like a chump
There is a theory that I've heard of that the empowered mode of Odogaron that they enter when eating meat is actually similar to fire. The reasoning for this theory is the fact that many of the weapons made out of Odogaron parts have hidden fire element.
Odogaron is like a honey badger that’s how it does what is does and manages to survive
Odogaron was my favorite addition as well! Mastering his move set made him such a satisfying monster to battle, it took me back to when I was 8, playing Freedom Unite, massacring the Old World's population of Nargacuga. My top 2 monsters to fight ❤
Really loved this vid. I think we can be a bit more optimistic regarding the ecologic aspect of the franchise. World was a big step forward, but this new eco system wasn't adapted to the classic g rank format, and rise is from the portable serie, which is more gameplay focused. Considering the love World was made with and received, I'm sure the next main serie monster hunter will be memorable.
still my favorite channel
20:22 In fairness, whatever viral video content pertaining to monster fights that comes from whatever the MH world’s equivalent to the internet will be when civilization progresses to whatever its equivalent to our modern times would be would probably be relatively scarce.
I don’t imagine intrepid cameramen surviving being close enough to record a fight would be all that common considering the world’s animals’ large sizes and wild abilities would most likely lead to a lot of collateral.
I don't know why but the idea of someone recording odogron and another monster fighting and putting it on RUclips is really funny to me maybe it's because I've seen alot of those videos with honey badgers but idk
I was definitely surprised by the sudden shade thrown at the other zoologist channels, though I was a bit confused that tier zoo was one of example, always thought he was pretty through the his Analysis’s.
It’s not fun to admit, but tierzoo is pretty bad. His videos rarely stand up to the science and function as pretty bad misinformation. The cheetah one is a great example of this
@@unnaturalhistorychannel I unfortunately do feel Oblivious to a lot of the information talked about in your of his videos. Though now that I think about it, I think I mainly enjoy the editing of the videos and the way he commentates over the numerous clips of the animals themselves.
I love this channel
There’s a book that’s basically a biology book on monster hunter world. I don’t think there’s one for iceborne, but definitely for world
I have a feeling the Ebony Odogaron possibly gained it's dragon energy source from feeding off of Deviljhos,more specifically, the dragon organ,like the mutante ones,ebony odos where changed by the arcane energy now coursing through their veins
Yes finally my favorite fanged wyvern.
11:05 you forgot to edit out the second "it may not look built for the cold" but otherwise good video all round
D'oh.
The Ebony Odogaron is my spirit animal.
Ah, spicy puppy - My fav' monster and armour. Thank you for the video and insight!