I wish films would take inspiration from the Arkham games, which is both dark and gritty but also isn’t afraid to use the more fantastical members of his rogues gallery.
The Arkham series is my favorite iteration of Batman to any audiovisual medium. That series simply _gets_ Batman, and doesn't try to subvert him or anything while still doing its own thing with the character.
“bUut those are vidya gaems!” ^I assume that’s what these Hollywood movie directors will think of that pitch, same goes for comic books. “only kids read kamic books!” ^These Hollywood elites have a very narrow mind, thinking only a scriptwriter can create great stories to tell. They think of mediums like Video games and Comic books as lowly forms of art. That’s why we have Matt Reeves stealing from David Fincher’s two great movies ‘Se7en’ and ‘Zodiac’ to create ‘The Batman’. He was ashamed of Batman using his cape to glide, he was ashamed of The Penguin’s real name. He transformed The Riddler into a Zodiac Killer knock-off. Same goes for Todd Phillips, he stole from Martin Scorsese’s ‘Taxi Driver’ and ‘The King of Comedy’ to create The Joker (2019).
Idk why no one does a mix of a Grounded Batman and a Fantastical Batman. Start off as him fighting Mobsters and Insane Criminals then little by little introduce Meta Human, Supernatural Villains, and Aliens.
@@91MoonKnight No it didn't. It literally began with Batman V Superman with him fighting a super powered Alien. Batfleck was visually great as an adaptation but writing and Character wise, his version of Batman was ass.
Right also give me Bats outsmarting everyone,knows every martial art known to man,beats the shit out of goons and throws them on the other side of the room and adopted 4 boys(One of whom is his bio son) and taught them how to fight like Soldiers but also from a place of love😂
@@yarc9Raimi found a way to balance campiness and groundedness. These directors could learn a thing or 2 from him. Also, I think he would be a great director of a Batman movie.
@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Film makers have rarely respected comic books and have often been embarrassed they were making a comic book movie. They do all kinds of things like changing the characters costumes to make them more realistic, see all the black leather of early 2000's movies. Or changing characters lore to do away with the more fantastic elements.
The batman is the first batman movie where he doesn't fight any of his villains and even if he did in the sequels what would they do? He wears a literal plot armor
@@C.R.Cole331 all he did was chase penguin, grab falcone and his only challenge was a group of riddler redditors with guns 💀. But i hope the third movie has him being hunted by the court of owls, like he gets goons and that but once the owls appear and they are very much like him that is gonna go big.
@@inendlesspain4724 all they do is take crime stuff and have a guy dressed like a bat. Seven, the zodiac killer, the sopranos, the king of comedy, taxi driver, new york new york. The penguin is literally a copy of tony soprano but with a weird feet and scars, they even took away his british accent to do an italian one.
@@anakinskywalker2142it’s almost like the film wanted to show he wasn’t perfect as he is new to being Batman. How are you gonna expect him to fight villains when they aren’t even established yet into the story. The Batman is a introduction to a whole saga, you just gotta give it time
Ever since Joel Schumacher’s Batman and Robin and Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight Trilogy, everyone has been trying so hard to one up themselves on how grounded Batman should be and are basically afraid of a fantastical Batman because they don’t want to run the risk repeating the same mistake Batman and Robin did. Slightly off topic, but they even based the DCEU banking off the success of The Dark Knight Trilogy with Man of Steel who had Christopher Nolan as a producer alongside Zack Snyder until it went on to fully be Zack Snyder’s thing entirely. That’s how scared they were. Trying to make everything like Batman.
Can't wait for the next movie. Where batman is just some crazy guy who gets hit by a stray bullet in the first 10 minutes. And the rest of the movie is just in the hospital. Only for him to flatline.
I agree but just cause one movie that was a glorified Toy Commercial missed the mark on the fantastical side of Batman doesnt mean aspects of that side of him should be ignored or toned down
@@HyperionStars I understand that the movie didn’t do well, but it’s been two decades now. It’s like they still see it with shame like a bastard child and everything it represents.
I think the main issue all these adaptations are missing is that a major trait of Batman is that while he is a more or less grounded character, the world he inhabits is not. Big part of the character's appeal is to see a relatively normal person having to deal with crazy, abnormal out-of-this-world threats as much as he has to deal with street-level crime. One day he'll be fighting drug lords who take advantage of the pains of the lower class and the next one he'll be traveling to the other side of the galaxy to deal with a despot making superhuman aliens fight each other for sport.
Yeah, I was honestly bored with The Batman and Penguin is just a show about the criminal world. They couldn't even commit to giving Penguin his name. Reeves is ashamed of these characters and the world.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Nah I disagree. I think Matt loves the comics. Look I’m sure all us comic fans have our ideas for Elseworlds where things are different. That’s what Matt’s doing. He’s not doing the Todd Phillips thing where he’s using the brand just to get people to see his idea that nobody would care about otherwise.
@rakoonshampoo2608 Matt is only interested in gritty and grounded depiction of the character. He doesn't like the character in his entirety. He doesn't like the campy side. He's only focusing on specific aspects of the character. And even with the Penguin show, it's just a show about the criminal underworld. You could easily take away the DC references just like Todd Phillips Joker. He didn't even use Penguin's actual name because he thought it was too silly.
I think Batman should always be pretty grounded in his first year or two at least, and over time, more fantastical elements appear throughout his time as Batman.
@@yarc9 is it? In Sam Raimi’s films, he fought a crazed dude that was injected with practically super soldier serum, a guy with 4 robot arms, a dude who can turn into a giant sand monster, and an alien from outer space. In the Amazing Spider-Man films, he fought a giant lizard and a man made of pure electricity. In MCU, he fought a salvage crew boss who made an armored wing suit, some dude with hyper-realistic CGI, and all those previous villains minus the alien. In what world is that grounded?
@@alexanderchristopher6237Yeah, they've done a good job with Spiderman by making him both campy and grounded. I think the MCU is when they went too far in the campy direction.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 Most of those villains can be explained through modern science and technology like steroids , stem cells , drones , cybernetic prosthetics and animal human hybrids . all the best movies and TV shows are based in reality they just exaggerate it !
Grounded not necessaraly means realistic. It means making a story that things has more depth and makes more sense inside that fictional story, including unbelievable parts. For example, The Boys is a grounded show, because it plays with the idea of how super heroes would be if they are depicted as actual people from the "real world", giving a lot of depth to the characters and humanizing them, along with trying to make sense of all the fantastical without sacrificing the use of super powers, extra gore and absurd situations. The Punisher, a single man ending a bunch of crime families without being stopped, is unbelievable as fuck but they create the illusion for us to seem that is realistic, because is a crazy normal military guy just shooting crooks. That logic that Reeves used on his movie. The idea of Batman is absurd itself but it has grounded aspects to it that he worked on it, and thats the fun part
I knew things were going well when directors and "show runners" were saying things like "I wanted to make my Star Wars", or "I never read Lord of the Rings,"
As great things as grounded Bats has brought us like the Nolan Trilogy and so far Reeves Batman Universe i feel feel it benches and gets rid of aspects that makes Batman so special like the sidelining of the Batfamily for almost 30 years and villains like Clayface and Killer Croc as well as borrowing elements from the same storylines like Year One and the Long Halloween over and over
I mean. Killer croc isn't that bizarre. He's just a big guy with a skin condition. It's just that stories go all in on the crocodile aspects. "he's not a crodile man, he just has a skin condition that gives him rough skin. And claws And sharp teeth And slit pupils And a snout And a tail."
@@somethingclever4297 And the ability to grow back cut limbs and become larger and stronger the more physical trauma he endures. Still human though, he just has a completely random mutation.
@@TheJanissary90 or they could just make him a really good actor, a master of disguise, but more realistic, no meta powers. Similar to comic clayface, although he would need a new motivation, or plot device that would cause him to be a villain, or just make him a clearly evil selfish entitled rich elite etc., you know like most celebrities or actors nowadays
In my opinion, Batman needs to be less realistic and more fantastical. When you take into account his history, Bruce as a character shouldn’t really be grounded because it downplays what he’s capable of. Look at Ben Affleck, he’s the best looking Batman in film and he’s the best with physicality. I want the dcu Bruce to be a master martial artist, gymnast, acrobat and detective, I want to see Bruce actually use his legs, do back flips, do somersaults, roundhouse kicks. Ben was the only Batman that felt like he actually could live in a world with Superman, flash, Wonder Woman, gods, aliens, supernatural stuff and etc… I want a Batman that’s tall and buff, that’s fighting the real bane that’s Hispanic and using the actual venom serum. I want a joker that fell into the vat of acid and it turned his skin white and his hair green, I want a poison ivy that has green skin and can control plants, I want a Mr freeze that’s in the suit and has the big red goggles and the big freeze gun and have where he can only survive in sub zero temperatures. I liked the dark knight trilogy and even the Matt reeves movie, but I’m tired of grounded/realistic Batman. Batman is not supposed to be realistic, he’s supposed to be a peak human. Case in point, I want comic book Batman🤷♂️
@@orhanamin1347 All terrible hashtags, if anyone will give us this comic batman whose more fantastical it would be James Gunn, snyder had more than enough chances and simply didnt understand batman beyond the aesthtics, all we had was the punisher in a batsuit who suddenly is best buds on a first name basis with a guy he tried to kill for most of the time he knew him, so glad the dceu is done, it had its highs and lows but it died because it wasnt good enough.
@@orhanamin1347 lol no, those hashtags are awful. James Gunn is most likely to give us the true Batman we want. It already looks like he'll be giving us the true Superman.
Exactly, campiness and fantastical elements are part of his history. Ignoring that completely means never portraying a truly accurate version. Limiting the character.
yea but making a fantastical live action batman movie where he foghts meta humans with just his gadgets and skills is also insanely goofy and ridiculous, the grounded batman movies have made the charachter more interesting and with more depth and humanity, I hope gunn balances both instead of just fantastical or grounded, somehow make it fantastical with superpowered villains but also humanize the charachter and make him interesting at the same time and not have him beat every single villain just because he's batman
Grounded Batman stories are fucking great and are some of his best stories, however the problem like you said is the lack of variety. We need more varied mainstream representations of the character in film. Even the Long Halloween which is a more grounded stakes detective story if filled with fantastical gothic elements of his mythos. A good balance would be nice to see.
I get it but when Robin hasn't been beside Batman in 25+ years of live action movies... especially since the character was introduced in 1939 that is a problem
Batman could be 30-36: he was around 19 when he began training, knocked up Talia around that time and was 25 when his mission began. Damian should be 11-13 in this first one, so he’ll be in his early 30’s when the brave and the bold began. But then you’d have to account for The other robins, so I think 35 is best, 10 years is enough to age up nightwing and red hood. If they wanna fit in tim and Barbra they could
@@MILDMONSTER1234Its honestly the only way to keep him young while still making sense of Damian being that age and believable of the other Robin's coming along before him
But there’s also something special about placing comic book characters in a real-world setting and exploring the potential ramifications-especially with a character like Batman, whose character-background at least somewhat lends itself to more grounded filmmaking. I think that films like The Batman and The Dark Knight trilogy aren’t trying to convince us that Batman could exist, as much as they’re trying to answer the question “What if he did?”. And, in my opinion, we’ve gotten some of the most compelling comic book filmmaking ever from that approach
3:43 When I saw the Robin costume, I'm going to be honest, I got a little excited because I thought "Oh that's Jason! We're going to do Death in the Family or Under the Red Hood. Those stories actually fit the Synderverse dark and gritty tone. Maybe we'll get Nightwing or Tim Drake-" Nope. Zach Synder specifically said that the Robin that died was Dick Grayson. And my expectations dropped so fast. If the director is too scared to use Dick Grayson, then that means he's too scared to use Jason, Tim, or Damian. And if he's scared of the Robins, then he's scared to use any of the Batgirls. And since Dick Grayson is the leader of the Titans, that means there'd be no Titans because it means acknowledging all the other young heroes/former sidekicks. That's a lot of characters to bench for your 'expanded universe'. It's almost like 'grounded' superhero is code for 'we're embarrassed that we're adapting a whimsical genre'.
Have Reeves make the noir grounded Batman with villains like Hugo Strange or court of owls The DCU could embrace Batman "comic side" and have villains like Ivy, Clayface, mr freeze...
@@robertdavies6630 no. Keep Deathstroke out of it. Deathstroke is not a Batman villain! He's a Titans Villain! Strike that he's a Nightwing Villain! Seriously that will only further demote Dick Grayson back to sidekick by turning his villain into yet another in Bruce's infinite catalog, the whole reason for Dick becoming Nightwing and spending more time with the Titans was to show that he was no longer Bruce's sidekick and had his own life, supporting cast and bad guys, he's not Batman Jr like WB and DC keep insisting he is. If you need someone who hasn't fought Batman yet...just properly use Firefly for real this time, Manbat, Killer Croc or Ventriloquist. It would make more sense.
The more "realistic" they try to make Batman, the more outlandish & ridiculous the concept becomes. When you break Batman down to its very core, it sounds like one of the most ludicrous concepts for a franchise: A man dresses up in a knock-off Superman suit with a cape shaped like bat wings & a cowl with bat ears stuck onto it for the express purpose of scaring the crap out of criminals, his side kick is his adopted son whose costume is one of the most colorful & garish outfits a superhero could wear, & some of his biggest threats are a man in clown makeup, a man with physical abnormalities that make him look like an aquatic bird, a man who wears suits laden with question marks from head to toe & is obsessed with riddles, & a woman in a leather skin-tight suit & cowl with _cat_ ears stuck on. The only reason that we think Batman is as awesome a concept/franchise as it is is because of the craft that goes into making the world of Batman feel so stylized & operatic. We know it's completely fictional, but it's so atmospheric & immersive that we get sucked into it & buy all of the insanity mentioned above. When they try to make Batman's world feel like it could take place just beyond your own backyard, the suspension of disbelief collapses entirely & the concept becomes laughable.
@@elwoodjacobs4353 Personally, I think there’s a sense of irony (that’s probably the wrong word) to it that makes it work really well. I do like how everyone in the Reeves universe treats him like some unhinged freak. Dudes wearing a Halloween costume, taking himself 100% seriously, and can beat the shit out of you.
Honestly I would like to see a more comic book accurate Batman like what we got with the Tim Burton films it just seems like each and every time a new Batman movie comes out it just seems like everybody's trying to emulate the dark Knight trilogy hell the animated films do way better job than the live action films when it comes to the character because they're more accurate to the comics everyone thinks if they did what they did with Batman Robin back in the day people will think that Batman will go back to being goofy you can still keep Batman dark and brooding while bringing in the fantastical aspects of the character from the comics into live-action if the Tim Burton films could do it then so can these directors and writers that they currently have working on these films
@@nickjcirillo exactly they can work clayface into a live action Batman movie as long as they have good writers that have a understanding of who the character they honestly need to start putting the spotlight on Batman's other villains in his rogue gallery because he has the best roster villains that any superhero wish they had they put too much focus on Harley and joker all the time it's really time that they take a break from those characters and start putting the spotlight on Batman's other villains in his rogue gallery
I don't mind a grounded Batman but I prefer a Batman movie that is dark but isn't afraid to be comic book movie, that's one of the reason why I like Burton's Batman movies.
You're most likely going by stuff that you heard online that people have said about Batman forever being a quote on quote "failure" Batman forever was a huge success when it first came out in 1995 it beat Jurassic Park in box office numbers And it made a lot of money at the box office Go back and watch some fan reactions from 1995 there was a lot of Batman fans at the time That enjoyed Batman forever how I know that is because I Saw it myself when the movie came out at the time most of all the hate is just from people online who think it's the worst Batman movie of all time because of the online echo chamber. @@capitaokanalha6186
Just a quick reminder. Saying that this batman is a more grounded version, and they don't plan on going fantastical, doesn't mean that future projects, after these ideas, will have a more fantastical point of view. Matt reeves says that he wants batman to be a grounded version, but it doesn't mean that the project would evolve into something more fantastical
Arkham Asylum series as the prime example of what the movies should follow. They keep Batman dark and gritty while being unshamed to embrace and showcase the fantastical and campy side of Batman
A secondary problem with a grounded Batman is the villains become less fantastic. No Mr. Freeze, Killer Croc, Clayface, or other oddballs. In the greater scope, it helps adding such characters because then It makes sense if Batman's in the Justice League dealing with villains way off his ability to fight by himself.
I can understand Croc, Ivy and Clayface, but what is the problem with Mr. Freeze? He's a grief stricken scientist with a gun that freezes people. I would consider that still relatively normal.
Honestly, it's less of a problem with realistic Batman, and more of an issue with companies milking the shit of something that receives any positive feedback. (Example: The Batman who snickers)
I want a less sci Fi Batman trilogy that's ALSO heavy in the medieval and gothic imagery. Not excessively (tbh that'd be fun too) but really the subtle dark fantasy castle inspired sky scrapers, armor like DARK KNIGHT bat suit, fuck it, berserker Bane (NOT JUST A MINDLESS BRUTE, maybe like Lanius from Fallout?) and a slightly more draconic Killer Croc than we've ever gotten. Tbh doubling down on the classic monster house vibe of some villains would be cool too.
I honestly have no problem with live action Batman being grounded and realistic, that said though it still sucks that Affleck never got his own series of Batman films because his version of Batman was perfect for a live action Batman with fantastical villains.
@@WeebGuru6That’s Rebirth- Present Tim. New-52 was the one where they made him have a batman obsession and he didn’t become even Robin but a sidekick to the original Robin mantle.
I just want a more fantastical in live action…GIVE ME AN 10ft mud man who can shape shift…I want a 8ft ripped alligator man who wrestles and eats people, Give me A Sexy plant lady who controls Giant Plants Plz Oh and one more thing give me a Joker who ACTUALLY FALLS INTO ACID AND IS BLEACH WHITE SKIN etc Thx 🙏 😅
@@TheSsjJoker People probably won’t like it, but I actually really like the clown style makeup from the 2019 movie. I’d love to see a design that combines comic joker with that clown style makeup. Especially if the chemicals seriously scarred his skin and made him look kinda gross.
These directors need to start thinking more like the cartoons. The DCAU gave us incredibly mature takes, while still providing the fun and making it accessible to children. The new movies are just trying to one up the Nolan trilogy by being grittier and more grounded.
Good thing it’s not that realistic then. Gotham is actually stylised. Joker is born with chalked white skin and a congenital smile. Batman has meta human durability pretty much, walking into bullets and slapping into bridges etc.
This is why Caped Crusader threw me off so much. His Rouge's Gallery were all street-level crime bosses or maniacs, but then all of a sudden, mfing GENTLEMAN GHOST and a child VAMPIRE (they play it off as a medical condition, but it's not fooling anyone) show up. How can they have an actual, on-god ghost, yet Clayface is only a dude who can mold his face? Even Onomatopoeia got shafted. He's not a man who can perfectly recreate any sound to fool people. He's just a weird hitman who *speaks* sound effects. GG and Nocturna give me hope they're willing to go fantastical with the series, but this trend of a grounded Batman seems hard to shake off, even for Caped Crusader.
You can get mad at me all you want, but I still want Robert Pattinson’s Batman take influences from the Arkham Games so it can manage the fantastical and noir elements. Plus, this would be a good opportunity for Battinson to rely more on his martial arts and gadgetss.
I just hope they keep the idea of 2 Batmans. Not really a fan of merging the Reevesverse into the DCU. You can still have the Batmans be similar ages theyll just need to have different costumes, physiques, and different tones, also DCU Batman will have the Bat Family
Agreed, I’m praying they don’t make Batman 40-50 starting out in the DCU. Bruce in Main Continuity gets Damien at age 36 and a new 52. He was even younger at getting him at age 33. Making 10 years older than Clark ruins the dynamic to me of them being brothers. It’s easily doable to make him mid 30s starting out with a full family & I hope they cast that Brandon Sklenar actor from 1923 for Batman he would cook.
people need to realize the most fantastical thing about robert patterson's batman is his suit. it's completely bulletproof minus point blank shot gun blasts
Solid video. I disagree that "we've had enough of grounded Batman stories." I'm looking forward to both more of Matt Reeves' Gotham stories and the "team player" Batman of the Gunnverse. This town is big enough for the both of them
Personally the one issue I’ve always had with Batman is just how obvious it is that writers love him. He always has to be the one on the spotlight. It awfully comes off like the only way Batman can remain relevant is to just make him superhuman while claiming he’s just a man. Batman’s appeal to me has always been that despite standing amongst gods, he’s clearly not one of them. But the insane feats he has brings that into question. Sokka from Avatar is how I wish writers treated Batman. He’s outmatched by every one of his friends. Hell even the non benders like Suki and Ty Lee could probably beat him easily. But that’s not why he’s needed. He doesn’t need to be a heavy hitter. It’s his tactical mind and ability to stay moral that make him valuable. Things like punching Flash, evading Superman’s superhearing or Omega Beams and being the best fighter ruin Batman for me. Writers need to stop making Batman the best at literally everything.
I disagree, I think Batman Being a Heavy Hitter despite Being a Mortal Person Makes him far more interesting, Batman is The PEAK of Humans, he represents what we could do if we really push ourselves, The idea that just because he’s a human that he should always be doing Human things is mind blowing, Batman is not really human, he’s borderline Superhuman, most of the things that he does is due to his intelligence, building powersuits, building Gadgets that can Fight world ending threats. Marvel Characters like Iron Man are actually like Batman, Tony Stark is just a regular human but with his mind can Contend With the likes of Thanos, Thor and Even Odin. The thing is Batman isn’t even at the top of dc, Fighting wise he’s top 2 for sure, And Intelligence wise he’s Top 3, but he’s not the very best, Karate Kid Is arguably the better fighter, Brainiac is smarter than Bruce And Lex Luthor is arguably smarter as well
@@Comicedits39 the thing with iron man is that it’s really thanks to his suit. Iron Man shows us what intelligence can achieve. Batman to me shows what you can achieve with the power of plot armor. Again with Sokka. Being a human that can’t bend the elements doesn’t detract from his value. Instead Sokka showcases the value in what’s honestly an insignificant person in comparison to the others. Having Batman pull off crazy feats defeats his purpose. It’s like saying “you have no unless you can be just as fast or just as strong.” An episode of Avatar’s Sokka’s Master would be pointless if Sokka was just as dangerous as the rest of the Gaang. They don’t need another Toph, or another Aang or another Katara. They need Sokka.
This is why I'm more excited for DCU Batman/Brave and the Bold than any upcoming Matt Reeves stuff. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed The Batman and I think The Penguin is a great show, but I'm getting a bit burned out on the grounded takes and am more than ready for a more comic book fantastical live action Batman. I'm ready for his more fantastical metahuman rogues like Man-Bat, a Bane that juices up on venom and grows into a monster, a monstrous Killer Croc, and a Clayface that's a big mud monster that shape shifts.
13:09 immediately thought about Hi-Top Films pulling something like this, or any of the "film bros" that only hate superhero movies because they're popular and will glaze any indie or older movie for the sake of it.
As someone who never read a comic or watched an animated show about Batman, I love the idea of a grounded universe (and Batman) it’s make it more believable, real and relatable. Finally a hero with flaws and pros like any human beings. I don’t want it to turn into a semi sci-fi movie with a ton of CGI over practical effects that make the movie less tangible and believable. The fact that his suit is practical or his car just a tuned muscled car makes it better imo because it is something that you might “potentially” see in real life and by consequence makes the movie not only more grounded but more mature as it gets closer to our reality, which is welcomed in era of industrial Marvel / Hollywoodian movies that are being produced as cash grab products instead of what they should be: Art with a deeper meaning that what you see on screen. Same applies to the villains, as a grounded vilain, this one becomes more believable just like the rest and even relatable for some while treating of real socials flaws such as it was perfectly done with the Riddler or Joker, the fact that these guys could potentially exist makes the movie more relatable to audiences than a CGI generated vilain that lost all of his humanity. Finally, the reason I insist so much on relatable and believable elements, regardless of if it is a Batman movie or any other movie, is because it is more prompt to a better overall written story and character development. Something that you will have a hard time finding in those “semi sci-fi” movies where most of the budget and overall efforts are dedicated to action scenes and visual effects (that just happen to be bad, forced and cringe most of the time). The Batman despite its “generic” story about Ghotam’s corruption, as a deeper meaning about fear, loss and the inequality of each individual’s life but can still managed to provide real grounded action scene as it is shown with the Batmobile chase or the believable fights choreography where Batman is constantly getting hit or thrown around (or shot at) which you could compare to real life professional fighters: as they “mastered” their respectful discipline, one can’t avoid to take damage as their opponents (or environment at a greater scale) are almost or more dangerous than the hero, despite all the precautions he took.But what do I know hum ? I maybe totally wrong, that’s just my preference and perspective on the subject.
@@Griffith74a balanced of both is perfect, make the monsters make sense, in a way of science, people are begging for grounded batman to end but when gunn jumps to Batman fighting straight aliens out of space people are going to cry, let reeves cook let science cook because we don’t know wtf gunn is cooking
@@raven3067 It can be both. The same way in Captain America first avenger Cap was fighting Nazis but eventually in the first avengers movie was fighting aliens and God's. Same thing with Iron Man.
Because the "Batman wins because of prep time" thing makes no f'n sense when you have an actual person in the suit. It becomes very clear there is nothing stopping someone from just shooting him in the face.
@@Comicedits39 I get that in comic books and heightened movies. In a grounded movie, he ain't dodging bullets or not being seen. It's not physically possible for a human to do that. Also, Batman has no superpowers, except for his plot armor of being the main character and "he's Batman". Again, comic book, doesn't matter. Real person that needs to sleep, have a full-time job, and can be hurt, makes no sense.
Pretty much yeah. Batman is cool because you can feel like him. You watch or play as him and go yeah I could beat these guys up if I was good enough. Comics Batman is cool because he can dodge bullets and shit on top of everything else. You can’t really film a person dodging bullets and have it look good. That’s the problem. In the movie Batman will be established to not have superpowers. To just make him Arkham Batman he would need to have spider sense at the very least to do what he does. Thats why they just give him super armor because he has infinite money and you go yeah Bruce Wayne could make a suit like that, hell he has to to be Batman on a regular basis. I’d say Batman generally uses a grounded approach when fighting meta humans anyways. He has contingencies that exploit tangible weaknesses anyone could use. For him to dodge omega beams he had to do a backflip into a hole on top of a parademon and relocate so it him the demon. For him to defeat dark side he had to rig the whole planet to blow up and make a deal. They won’t do this in live action they will just scale him up or down for whatever the situation calls for and when it’s time to kill the bad guy they’ll have another member do it. Batman in live action should be grounded now his enemies could be fantastical, they don’t all have to be goons. The approach to dealing with the enemies should be grounded though. Or you could just have Batman exorcise a ghost and immediately set that tone that this Batman is different.
@@Comicedits39 you can’t film that. Star wars force speed is an example. It looks bad and is bad for the cinematic universe because any situation a character is pressed for time they should be using the force. If Batman moves faster than the naked eye and can’t be seen any scene where he looks like a dude in a suit now has to be justified. It doesn’t translate to live action. In a game you can slow down or speed up animations to fit his capabilities seamlessly. In a comic or cartoon you simply draw it. In a movie you have to make a script and direct an actor to actually do this stuff in real life. Sure you can use cgi but no one wants cgi Batman. That’s the real issue. Everything fantastical people want to see a guy has to dress up and perform in real life and it has to be shot in a way that looks good.
It's interesting how people are tired of grounded Batman movies and multiverse Spider-Man movies (even though there have only been three Spider-Verse movies)
Batman isn't a street level character. He's not only grounded. He's a mix of campy and gritty. He's a complex character with multiple aspects to him. Denying an entire side of the character is limiting the character and only focusing on some aspects. Holding him back. Directors need to learn from Raimi who was able to balance Spiderman as both campy and grounded. Start thinking more like the cartoons that have given us the most iconic depictions of these characters. They DCAU is written mature but still accessible to children.
Lol! That works for Disney and Sony and their characters. They tried that and it was a complete circus fest. Nobody wants that no more in Batman and probably would get thrashed in these times. Which I wouldn't be mad. Bcus I remember them horrible a## movies. SMH
@midwestkrazy83turner50 yes, people do. That's the whole point of this video. People don't want things that are too extreme in the sense of having too much campiness or too grounded. They want a balance. Batman isn't just dark and brooding all the time. People actually like it when he smiles and does more than just be sad about his parents. Doing the same take on Batman for the last 3 modern Batman movies is boring. DC can be just as campy as Marvel. Marvel just knows how to balance it better.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp No! It's nvr been that way at WB with the Batman movies. Stuff got goofy when they did those ones with George and Val in them. Nolan has changed the game. And by the look of things, it's a very small portion that even talks about that. WB will not go back down that route and from what I'm seeing? Mad ppl and fans LOVE the Grounded Batman stuff. You see ain't nobody else crying? So sorry that they don't wanna do that campy stuff. Maybe at Disney. But truth be told? Even between the 2( Disney and WB) the cartoons are even different. Disney was always rainbows and roses metaphorically. But WB has had sort of a dark tone to their humor in their cartoons. They just different and should stay that way.
@midwestkrazy83turner50 you're not understanding what I'm saying. I want a balance of campy and grounded/gritty. I don't want full on campy, and I don't want full grounded/gritty. And it's not just this one video, I've seen several with most people in the comments agreeing. Why do you think WB hired James Gunn? It's because betting it all on Snyder and his dark tone lead to failure. Marvel made billions because they were able to balance campy and grounded
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp THATS MARVEL!!!!!! You the one not listening and The Penguin is showing you different! People love the grounded Batman theme. NOBODY is saying this that is within the majority of fans. Nobody is asking for campy Bullshit dawg! You are making things up to try and win ur argument points and they not hitting with me. Bcus I read and do my homework. And the grounded Batman thing is here to stay. NOLAN has changed the game at WB. They haven't done that stupid goofy stuff for 30yrs and that failed miserably. Uma Thurman just came out and said that them movies in the mid 90s were for children. They not making movies for that anymore. Marvel can stay in their lane with that. Bringing Gunn ain't no upgrade dude!!! Idk why you wanna Lapride so hard. But trust and believe when Gunn fails? They will stick to the grounded approach. Bcus they seeing now that this Gunn stuff ain't working. I can tell you just listen to certain ppl and don't read much. But there are articles out there that say that the top brass at WB aren't sure that Gunn will make a big impact on the fans with his movies and what he wants for the DCU. You see ppl didn't turnout for him at NYCC? Everything since Gunn has been there has been flops. Lol! You can have Gunn. But my boy, the majority of fans aren't on board nor supporting it. You'll see. Only thing ppl are loving are The Batverse by Reeves.
The main problem with a "Realistic" and, inaccurately phrased, "Grounded" is the overzealous Fanboys actually; in the good sense for once These cult members are going to go around saying that Batman can beat anybody in comics in general, yet overall with the majority of live-action films, he is primarily fighting normal people. Post the Adam West show, Batman and Robin and Batman v Superman are the only films where he's fought superpowered characters
Ben Afflecks batman is only one that is close to the comic when it comes to gadgets,moves,death of aside kick and costume I hope Gunns batman is unrealistic as hell in this new universe.
As much as I love the Nolan films (being a bit generous with Rises), I think they really did damage to Batman's public image where the only way he can have good, thoughtful stories is if he was in a 100% realistic setting.
it's understandable, doing a good realistic batman movie is easier than trying to do a fantastical batman movie and risk turning the charachter into a meme again. Ben affleck was a cool fantastical batman but that universe just didn't work and pattinson is really good idc if it's "too grounded" which it really isn't
Grounded Batman worked after the Schumacher failure of 90s so Nolan needed a fresh take on the character for the big screen but its really been done to death now. Audiences are ready for more fantastic take on the character and world that isnt limited by whats “realistic” something akin to Batman the animated series or Arkham series would be a great visual take for him to evolve again
I am tried people keep making Deathstroke a Batman villain. Deathstroke is teen titans villain not a Batman villain. 5:06 Really? That is actually real? There is so many Batmen that has their own continuities and they want Matt Reeves’ Batman to be part of James Gunn’s DCU? They just want No Way Home version of Batman, which is beyond dumb. No more multiverse stories. 11:32 You think James Gunn will adapted Battle of the Cowl story? But without Tim Drake, Jason Todd and other characters? 12:14 I agree I prefer other Batman villains like Philo Zeiss. But we gonna go non grounded villains Doctor Phosphorus(DC has an obsession with Green skeletons), Zebra Man, Orca, Eraser The only Batman that is non Grounded is Batman: The Brave and the Bold. 13:07 It the same for the Dark Knight trilogy. Seriously Christopher Nolan original pitch was not a Batman movie until WB made it the pitch into a Batman movie. 13:17 I seen a lot of thumbnails. I just not going to see Joker 2. Ever Back then when first The Joker movie was successful, there people who criticized the movie calling it *“White Man Rage”* I do remember one of the critics like the bird of prey movie. Oh hypocrisy you are a mystery. 14:43 Man….. Where is the Love for Tim Drake. Before Fitzmartin and Wielgoz retcon Tim drake. Never forget. 14:48 But you should check out The Boy Wonder by Juni Ba. It is a Great Robin and Good Damain Wayne story.
I think the appeal of grounded batman films (specifically the 2022 film) is that it transcends the superhero genre, and as mat reeves described it it’s more of a crime drama than anything else- and that believability makes the film not only more accessible to a wider audience but also easily lends itself to a more gritty and brooding tone that really lends itself well to the character. I have complete faith that mat reeves will beautifully adapt the comics (he is clearly very knowledgeable on them) in a way that is both faithful to the comics but also not too campy or outlandish.
Matt Reeves' approach is so far successful & created great content. I'm happy with it. Looking forward to someone who can really crack the fantastical elements with live action movies.
Yup. REALLY fast! I remember what turned me off to The Dark Knight early on; It was that scene where Nolan put in all those Batman immitators just to make it more... sigh... "realistic." NO THANKS! HATE IT! It took me such a long time to come around to The Dark Knight and see all the good and intelligence in that movie, because it was so disgustingly accurate to reality!
If you ask me the best way to do a grounded batman is like character from a stealth video game, a proper stealth game like Hitman not an action game with stealth elements. Batman can fight but it's not ideal, he's better at stealth and strategy. Batman's smart, he knows the issue with Gotham is the corruption at the top not the thugs at the bottom. So his initial goal would be to get evidence against and leverage on the corrupt elite. His equipment would primarily be designed to help him infiltrate places like a ninja, then later on when he's in a bad position he improvises and figures out how to use them as weapons. Then after he's caught and escapes a couple of times he see's how much he scares the lower tier criminals.
The Dark knight originally took place 6 months - 1 year after Batman Begins But that was changed to 5 years and some months for the dark knight rises Ra's al ghul mentions that he was fighting crime for years Also the definitive guidebook for the dark knight trilogy supervised by Nolan States that 5 years passed between Batman begins and the dsrk knight That also can be see in both movies with Gordon sons The boy was a baby in the first movie no more than 3 years ANd in the sequel he have a daughter of 4-5 years old and he is around 8-10
the only piece of Batman media that did this start of his career to end was 2004 The Batman (personally) since it showed him as a loner to a member of the Justice League with the Bat Family around him still and him actually accepting them
Nightwing, Damien, Jason and Drake would be dope. Have them as their own characters and Bats having to keep them in check. The villain should be Ras and Shiva!
Im gonna say it. I like a grounded Batman, I think Batman needs a more realistic and more detective style because it gets little acknowledgement if not completely neglected in a lot media. His rogues might be more limited, but I’d argue that’s where good writers can come in and actually make a new rogue and maybe even a new good nemesis so we don’t have to keep watching Batman and Joker fight for the millionth time. I found this new movie to be a breath of fresh air. The soundtrack, set design, the darkness and grittiness of it was great, I would like to see Batman get some upgrades to his suit and tech as long as the series keeps going, but it’s been awesome so far.
DC has been making batman lack luster fr, limiting his villian roster in movies. Ngl, we NEED an animated TV series or movie using a close reference to the Arkham game series.
Gary Oldman said it best in The Dark Knight - The hero we need but not the one we deserve...Batman is a silent guardian and a watchful protector...I don't think grounded - in whatever respect - really comes into it 🙂
Things is, grounded Batman is way more interesting and captivating than the non sensical main continuity of fucking 40 years of Batman, in his tighty blackies, and his Batfamily with about 20 fucking children fighting mythical creatures without any of these i mentioned barely having real definitive consequences for their crimes, aging and actions. Its way more interesting to see this character being explored as he was created, a urban detective vigilante who fights mobsters, serial killers and other crazy people by himself and have some sporadic allies. Being grounded doesnt means realistic. It means having more depth, humanization, coehesion and some sense of what that world is presenting and its characters, even if things are fictional and unbelieavable as fuck. The idea of a Bat themed vigilante taking down criminals is absurd itself but it has many grounded aspects around it like Batman's is just a powerless mentally unhealthy rich guy fighting crime in a "regular" big city for example, and those grounded concepts are the fun part to explore that Reeves did perfectly, giving the audience the illusion that is somehow "realistic" but its is not. You can even have some supernatural elements in Reeves world and still keep it grounded and making somehow believable in that world context.
@@MILDMONSTER1234 A grounded Batman with a good writing will always be better than a super fantastical Batman with a good writing. Just look which are considered the best Batman comics of all time for most people. All grounded. Now look at the worst...Which Arkham game have the best storyline? The most grounded one, Origins
I can't stand directors, producers, & writers who are ashamed of the fantastical elements of these properties and/or don't care about being true to the source material! People like that should stay the f@@@ away from our beloved IPs and create their own!
Could you imagine if they did a Batman pov movie like hardcore Henry? Like you follow Batman through one night out from his actual pov - whether it be a Arkham game styled story or something new. Either way that would be a crazy ahh movie
Bruh. The character of "Robin" came for an era of goofy, cheesy Batman comics that were aimed specifically at kids. And the whole concept of the "bat family" is corny and lame. The Nolan films got it right. The latest Batman film was great and the penguin show is lit! Batman is a billionaire detective In a dark crime infested city. That is when Batman is at his best and most interesting.
@Shockkings0714 Bruh. BatMAN is a disturbed billionaire whose parents were killed when he was a child causing him to grow up and become a vigilante that dresses up like a bat and beats up criminals. His antics spawned criminals who developed their own over the top personas and tactics as a response to him. The Batman mithos is tight and well conceived. The original robin was already pushing it... A young boy swinging through the city with the assassin trained vigilante??? Really? Batman was an adult with peak human strength and abilities and over a decade of extreme martial arts training under his belt, to go along with him being literally crazy, which are some of the main reasons he was such a threat and unbeatable force against street level criminals. But a young boy can just jump in and not get killed instantly or be a weakness that can be used against Batman? And then you want to add in a bat girl, a bat woman and two other robins... Lol then a bat dog, a bat cat, a bat horse... Lol no. The Batman family stuff was corny and cheesy, and didn't make sense. Batman's "team" is the justice league. People who are as powerful or more powerful and have their own identity.
I know it's unlikely The Batman Part 2 will have one of Batman's more powered villains as the villain, but I think Mr. Freeze would make for an insanely good sequel.
I don't understand why people are like "I'm tired of realistic live action Batman, it's over used" when there are only four realistic Batman movies out of at least 8 live action Batman movies and three of those Realistic life action batman movies are the nolan trilogy. Every other live action Batman movie is definitely not realistic. Hell We all forget that Batman may not have had a movie in the DCEU by himself, but he was still there and was still a prominent character and definitely not realistic. DCEU batman was straight up in his mid to late 50s, fighting Superman and other basically gods and keeping up. And the first 4 Batman movies from Batman 89 to Batman and Robin definitely weren't realistic with Timber and dark and Gothic architecture and dark and cartoonishly evil villains Joel schumacher's acid trip of movies and More cartoonishly, evil villains. And don't get me started on adam wests Batman , who had a movie but just the entirety of everything that version of batman is in is straight up a live action cartoon.
I love the early years of Batman stories where he’s more of a myth and fighting the falcone and maronie crime families ect. But that’s doesn’t mean that’s all I want to see. I also love the more fantastical elements of the character and the robins and everything. We can have both
13:10 yeah and the worst part is that if that video gets big enough, all the sudden a mass flow of people will swear they felt that exact same way when watching the movie and all the sudden Joker 2 has a fan-base who will say bs like "you just didn't understand the film because you aren't smart poopy pants, and that's why you think it's bad" or even worse because "there's a woman lead" or whatever other shit they want to cook up
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I wish films would take inspiration from the Arkham games, which is both dark and gritty but also isn’t afraid to use the more fantastical members of his rogues gallery.
arkham games are so peak im currently platinuming arkham asylum
Ive seen poeple say that the arkham games are grounded like wtf no they arent
The Arkham series is my favorite iteration of Batman to any audiovisual medium. That series simply _gets_ Batman, and doesn't try to subvert him or anything while still doing its own thing with the character.
@@MILDMONSTER1234 Are those "people" in the room with us rn? Or are you just yelling at clouds here?
“bUut those are vidya gaems!”
^I assume that’s what these Hollywood movie directors will think of that pitch, same goes for comic books.
“only kids read kamic books!”
^These Hollywood elites have a very narrow mind, thinking only a scriptwriter can create great stories to tell. They think of mediums like Video games and Comic books as lowly forms of art.
That’s why we have Matt Reeves stealing from David Fincher’s two great movies ‘Se7en’ and ‘Zodiac’ to create ‘The Batman’. He was ashamed of Batman using his cape to glide, he was ashamed of The Penguin’s real name. He transformed The Riddler into a Zodiac Killer knock-off. Same goes for Todd Phillips, he stole from Martin Scorsese’s ‘Taxi Driver’ and ‘The King of Comedy’ to create The Joker (2019).
Idk why no one does a mix of a Grounded Batman and a Fantastical Batman.
Start off as him fighting Mobsters and Insane Criminals then little by little introduce Meta Human, Supernatural Villains, and Aliens.
That's how the comics progressed with the long Halloween. Wished they went with that approach
We had that with Ben Affleck's Batman
@@91MoonKnight
No it didn't.
It literally began with Batman V Superman with him fighting a super powered Alien.
Batfleck was visually great as an adaptation but writing and Character wise, his version of Batman was ass.
@@lordraiden7397
God we need to become Millionaires so we can make proper adaptations of the stuff we love man.....
Just give us Arkham Batman in live action.
Give me killer croc, clayface, poison ivy, mr freeze, man-bat and comic accurate
Ra’s al ghul.
Right also give me Bats outsmarting everyone,knows every martial art known to man,beats the shit out of goons and throws them on the other side of the room and adopted 4 boys(One of whom is his bio son) and taught them how to fight like Soldiers but also from a place of love😂
@@Kalel2.0Well, yes, give me all of that as well as the man who is a STEM master.
Amd comic accurate Bane 🔥
poison ivy is a hero now so
@@BusterBarnescomic accurate *anybody* would be nice
The first mistake is believing that a guy wearing a bat suit was somehow grounded
& that's after him being a billionaire w a heart of gold
@@from2100 that’s also pretty not grounded too
@@mlgodzilla4206 exactly lol
@@mlgodzilla4206 spider man can be grounded
@@yarc9Raimi found a way to balance campiness and groundedness. These directors could learn a thing or 2 from him. Also, I think he would be a great director of a Batman movie.
It's annoying that these hollywood directors are so ashamed of the more fantastical aspects of these characters
All you get these days is CGI slop. What are you even talking about
Yeah, they don't respect the character or his history.
@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Film makers have rarely respected comic books and have often been embarrassed they were making a comic book movie. They do all kinds of things like changing the characters costumes to make them more realistic, see all the black leather of early 2000's movies. Or changing characters lore to do away with the more fantastic elements.
@@matane2465they did respect it by making Batman journey. Well written comics are too Inconsistent
Tell me about it. Say that to Roland Emmerich and that iguana he wanted us to believe was Godzilla.
Grounded Batman really limits his storytelling and rogue's he can go up against
B-but you don't get it, these directors are making reeeeeal art, not childish stories for little kids.
/s
The batman is the first batman movie where he doesn't fight any of his villains and even if he did in the sequels what would they do? He wears a literal plot armor
@@C.R.Cole331 all he did was chase penguin, grab falcone and his only challenge was a group of riddler redditors with guns 💀. But i hope the third movie has him being hunted by the court of owls, like he gets goons and that but once the owls appear and they are very much like him that is gonna go big.
@@inendlesspain4724 all they do is take crime stuff and have a guy dressed like a bat. Seven, the zodiac killer, the sopranos, the king of comedy, taxi driver, new york new york. The penguin is literally a copy of tony soprano but with a weird feet and scars, they even took away his british accent to do an italian one.
@@anakinskywalker2142it’s almost like the film wanted to show he wasn’t perfect as he is new to being Batman. How are you gonna expect him to fight villains when they aren’t even established yet into the story. The Batman is a introduction to a whole saga, you just gotta give it time
Ever since Joel Schumacher’s Batman and Robin and Christopher Nolan’s The Dark Knight Trilogy, everyone has been trying so hard to one up themselves on how grounded Batman should be and are basically afraid of a fantastical Batman because they don’t want to run the risk repeating the same mistake Batman and Robin did.
Slightly off topic, but they even based the DCEU banking off the success of The Dark Knight Trilogy with Man of Steel who had Christopher Nolan as a producer alongside Zack Snyder until it went on to fully be Zack Snyder’s thing entirely. That’s how scared they were. Trying to make everything like Batman.
Can't wait for the next movie. Where batman is just some crazy guy who gets hit by a stray bullet in the first 10 minutes. And the rest of the movie is just in the hospital. Only for him to flatline.
I agree but just cause one movie that was a glorified Toy Commercial missed the mark on the fantastical side of Batman doesnt mean aspects of that side of him should be ignored or toned down
Agreed it’s an overcorrection of Schumacher’s errors
@@HyperionStars I understand that the movie didn’t do well, but it’s been two decades now. It’s like they still see it with shame like a bastard child and everything it represents.
@@orhanamin1347 dude, just move on already. Zack certainly has, which is why he doing stuff for Netflix now.
I think the main issue all these adaptations are missing is that a major trait of Batman is that while he is a more or less grounded character, the world he inhabits is not. Big part of the character's appeal is to see a relatively normal person having to deal with crazy, abnormal out-of-this-world threats as much as he has to deal with street-level crime. One day he'll be fighting drug lords who take advantage of the pains of the lower class and the next one he'll be traveling to the other side of the galaxy to deal with a despot making superhuman aliens fight each other for sport.
“Darn. He’s a pterodactyl again.” A line that shows how used he is to weird things.
Which is why he belongs in the same world as Superman and Wonder Woman.
Batman is nowhere near a normal person. He's basically a superhuman idc what anyone says.
I get it, but opening that door runs the risk of turning into what Marvel became. It’s just cheesy and corny imo
@@OutrageIsNow making any movie has it’s risks. But it can and should be done right.
I love how all the discourse around grounded Batman is like "We don't want grounded Batman anymore... let Matt Reeves cook though."
Yeah, I was honestly bored with The Batman and Penguin is just a show about the criminal world. They couldn't even commit to giving Penguin his name. Reeves is ashamed of these characters and the world.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Nah I disagree. I think Matt loves the comics. Look I’m sure all us comic fans have our ideas for Elseworlds where things are different. That’s what Matt’s doing. He’s not doing the Todd Phillips thing where he’s using the brand just to get people to see his idea that nobody would care about otherwise.
@rakoonshampoo2608 Matt is only interested in gritty and grounded depiction of the character. He doesn't like the character in his entirety. He doesn't like the campy side. He's only focusing on specific aspects of the character. And even with the Penguin show, it's just a show about the criminal underworld. You could easily take away the DC references just like Todd Phillips Joker. He didn't even use Penguin's actual name because he thought it was too silly.
@@rakoonshampoo2608
"I think Matt Reeves loves the comics.".
JonTron: "Excuse me! Whaaat?!".
@@Optimegatrongodzillamatt reeves loves the comics
Why the 4 Arkham games are my goats. Perfect blend.
or the animated series. i even prefer the brave and the bold over this grounded realism batman. it reminds me of the mcu. fun.
I think Batman should always be pretty grounded in his first year or two at least, and over time, more fantastical elements appear throughout his time as Batman.
Hard to ground a guy wearing a batsuit with pointy ears
It works with spider man
@@yarc9 is it? In Sam Raimi’s films, he fought a crazed dude that was injected with practically super soldier serum, a guy with 4 robot arms, a dude who can turn into a giant sand monster, and an alien from outer space. In the Amazing Spider-Man films, he fought a giant lizard and a man made of pure electricity. In MCU, he fought a salvage crew boss who made an armored wing suit, some dude with hyper-realistic CGI, and all those previous villains minus the alien.
In what world is that grounded?
@@alexanderchristopher6237Yeah, they've done a good job with Spiderman by making him both campy and grounded. I think the MCU is when they went too far in the campy direction.
@@alexanderchristopher6237 Most of those villains can be explained through modern science and technology like steroids , stem cells , drones , cybernetic prosthetics and animal human hybrids . all the best movies and TV shows are based in reality they just exaggerate it !
Grounded not necessaraly means realistic. It means making a story that things has more depth and makes more sense inside that fictional story, including unbelievable parts. For example, The Boys is a grounded show, because it plays with the idea of how super heroes would be if they are depicted as actual people from the "real world", giving a lot of depth to the characters and humanizing them, along with trying to make sense of all the fantastical without sacrificing the use of super powers, extra gore and absurd situations. The Punisher, a single man ending a bunch of crime families without being stopped, is unbelievable as fuck but they create the illusion for us to seem that is realistic, because is a crazy normal military guy just shooting crooks. That logic that Reeves used on his movie. The idea of Batman is absurd itself but it has grounded aspects to it that he worked on it, and thats the fun part
A really don’t blame Matt Reeves for not wanting his Batman to be in a cinematic universe especially after The Batman’s production history.
💯
I knew things were going well when directors and "show runners" were saying things like "I wanted to make my Star Wars", or "I never read Lord of the Rings,"
The worst part is when studios actively seek out these people and tell them not to do prior research anyway.
@@SecretMagicianand then those same directors tell people working on the films not to do research.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp then when the show gets bombed, they blame the fans for not liking it.
@@snake7440 yup, these people never learn.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp
There’s a reason an old saying about them goes, “They cry out as they strike you.”
As great things as grounded Bats has brought us like the Nolan Trilogy and so far Reeves Batman Universe i feel feel it benches and gets rid of aspects that makes Batman so special like the sidelining of the Batfamily for almost 30 years and villains like Clayface and Killer Croc as well as borrowing elements from the same storylines like Year One and the Long Halloween over and over
I mean. Killer croc isn't that bizarre. He's just a big guy with a skin condition. It's just that stories go all in on the crocodile aspects.
"he's not a crodile man, he just has a skin condition that gives him rough skin.
And claws
And sharp teeth
And slit pupils
And a snout
And a tail."
Well we did have batfleck and killer croc in the same film
@@orhanamin1347Oh stuff your dead, failed universe's hashtags where the sun don't shine already
@@somethingclever4297 And the ability to grow back cut limbs and become larger and stronger the more physical trauma he endures.
Still human though, he just has a completely random mutation.
@@orhanamin1347 cry about it, lil' bro, Hack Snyder's never coming back
Just give me a Batman movie with Clayface 🙏
But it's the one in the suit that can't help it when he turns people into mud
İn this mindset Clayface only be a mobster that wearing a clay mask and drowning people in cement.
@@TheJanissary90nahhhh😭😭
@@TheJanissary90 or they could just make him a really good actor, a master of disguise, but more realistic, no meta powers. Similar to comic clayface, although he would need a new motivation, or plot device that would cause him to be a villain, or just make him a clearly evil selfish entitled rich elite etc., you know like most celebrities or actors nowadays
@user-yj4vs1xh7k so Chameleon from Spiderman?
In my opinion, Batman needs to be less realistic and more fantastical. When you take into account his history, Bruce as a character shouldn’t really be grounded because it downplays what he’s capable of. Look at Ben Affleck, he’s the best looking Batman in film and he’s the best with physicality. I want the dcu Bruce to be a master martial artist, gymnast, acrobat and detective, I want to see Bruce actually use his legs, do back flips, do somersaults, roundhouse kicks. Ben was the only Batman that felt like he actually could live in a world with Superman, flash, Wonder Woman, gods, aliens, supernatural stuff and etc… I want a Batman that’s tall and buff, that’s fighting the real bane that’s Hispanic and using the actual venom serum. I want a joker that fell into the vat of acid and it turned his skin white and his hair green, I want a poison ivy that has green skin and can control plants, I want a Mr freeze that’s in the suit and has the big red goggles and the big freeze gun and have where he can only survive in sub zero temperatures. I liked the dark knight trilogy and even the Matt reeves movie, but I’m tired of grounded/realistic Batman. Batman is not supposed to be realistic, he’s supposed to be a peak human. Case in point, I want comic book Batman🤷♂️
@@orhanamin1347 All terrible hashtags, if anyone will give us this comic batman whose more fantastical it would be James Gunn, snyder had more than enough chances and simply didnt understand batman beyond the aesthtics, all we had was the punisher in a batsuit who suddenly is best buds on a first name basis with a guy he tried to kill for most of the time he knew him, so glad the dceu is done, it had its highs and lows but it died because it wasnt good enough.
@@orhanamin1347 lol no, those hashtags are awful. James Gunn is most likely to give us the true Batman we want. It already looks like he'll be giving us the true Superman.
poison ivy is a hero now
Exactly, campiness and fantastical elements are part of his history. Ignoring that completely means never portraying a truly accurate version. Limiting the character.
yea but making a fantastical live action batman movie where he foghts meta humans with just his gadgets and skills is also insanely goofy and ridiculous, the grounded batman movies have made the charachter more interesting and with more depth and humanity, I hope gunn balances both instead of just fantastical or grounded, somehow make it fantastical with superpowered villains but also humanize the charachter and make him interesting at the same time and not have him beat every single villain just because he's batman
Grounded Batman stories are fucking great and are some of his best stories, however the problem like you said is the lack of variety. We need more varied mainstream representations of the character in film. Even the Long Halloween which is a more grounded stakes detective story if filled with fantastical gothic elements of his mythos. A good balance would be nice to see.
I get it but when Robin hasn't been beside Batman in 25+ years of live action movies... especially since the character was introduced in 1939 that is a problem
Batman could be 30-36:
he was around 19 when he began training, knocked up Talia around that time and was 25 when his mission began.
Damian should be 11-13 in this first one, so he’ll be in his early 30’s when the brave and the bold began. But then you’d have to account for
The other robins, so I think 35 is best, 10 years is enough to age up nightwing and red hood. If they wanna fit in tim and Barbra they could
Batman banging talia pre costume is a bit odd tho
That checks out
@@MILDMONSTER1234Its honestly the only way to keep him young while still making sense of Damian being that age and believable of the other Robin's coming along before him
I think he'll be around 35-38. Brandon Sklenar is my point
Ignoring the bot here, I think Batman could be between 33-39.
We've gotta stop trying to convince ourselves that comic book characters could exist in our world. They can't. That's why they're special.
Exactly!
But there’s also something special about placing comic book characters in a real-world setting and exploring the potential ramifications-especially with a character like Batman, whose character-background at least somewhat lends itself to more grounded filmmaking. I think that films like The Batman and The Dark Knight trilogy aren’t trying to convince us that Batman could exist, as much as they’re trying to answer the question “What if he did?”. And, in my opinion, we’ve gotten some of the most compelling comic book filmmaking ever from that approach
Thats literally ONLY LIMITS storytelling,ever heard of MODERATION,BALANCE etc?
3:43 When I saw the Robin costume, I'm going to be honest, I got a little excited because I thought "Oh that's Jason! We're going to do Death in the Family or Under the Red Hood. Those stories actually fit the Synderverse dark and gritty tone. Maybe we'll get Nightwing or Tim Drake-" Nope.
Zach Synder specifically said that the Robin that died was Dick Grayson. And my expectations dropped so fast. If the director is too scared to use Dick Grayson, then that means he's too scared to use Jason, Tim, or Damian. And if he's scared of the Robins, then he's scared to use any of the Batgirls. And since Dick Grayson is the leader of the Titans, that means there'd be no Titans because it means acknowledging all the other young heroes/former sidekicks. That's a lot of characters to bench for your 'expanded universe'.
It's almost like 'grounded' superhero is code for 'we're embarrassed that we're adapting a whimsical genre'.
So, no Kite-Man?
It’s a shame because Ben Affleck Batman was actually the perfect set up to introduce Tim Drake, but never happened unfortunately.
@@arlwithac9285if they locked in we would have Gotten Tim Steph Cass in a snap
And had Jason for movie 2 or 3
@@painvillegaming4119 now we just gotta hope that James Gunn doesn’t forget Tim Drake in the DCU 😔
@@arlwithac9285 honestly him and Nightwing feel like a lock in for the titans movies
Have Reeves make the noir grounded Batman with villains like Hugo Strange or court of owls
The DCU could embrace Batman "comic side" and have villains like Ivy, Clayface, mr freeze...
I’d also like manbat and killer croc.
Best way to do it. We’ll have the more grounded Batman with The Batman and more fantastical Batman with James Gunn’s Batman Brave and the Bold.
Ivy would be fun and so would Clayface
And have deathstroke in it as well because he's the only one who hasn't fought batman in live action yet
@@robertdavies6630 no. Keep Deathstroke out of it. Deathstroke is not a Batman villain! He's a Titans Villain! Strike that he's a Nightwing Villain! Seriously that will only further demote Dick Grayson back to sidekick by turning his villain into yet another in Bruce's infinite catalog, the whole reason for Dick becoming Nightwing and spending more time with the Titans was to show that he was no longer Bruce's sidekick and had his own life, supporting cast and bad guys, he's not Batman Jr like WB and DC keep insisting he is. If you need someone who hasn't fought Batman yet...just properly use Firefly for real this time, Manbat, Killer Croc or Ventriloquist. It would make more sense.
The more "realistic" they try to make Batman, the more outlandish & ridiculous the concept becomes.
When you break Batman down to its very core, it sounds like one of the most ludicrous concepts for a franchise: A man dresses up in a knock-off Superman suit with a cape shaped like bat wings & a cowl with bat ears stuck onto it for the express purpose of scaring the crap out of criminals, his side kick is his adopted son whose costume is one of the most colorful & garish outfits a superhero could wear, & some of his biggest threats are a man in clown makeup, a man with physical abnormalities that make him look like an aquatic bird, a man who wears suits laden with question marks from head to toe & is obsessed with riddles, & a woman in a leather skin-tight suit & cowl with _cat_ ears stuck on.
The only reason that we think Batman is as awesome a concept/franchise as it is is because of the craft that goes into making the world of Batman feel so stylized & operatic. We know it's completely fictional, but it's so atmospheric & immersive that we get sucked into it & buy all of the insanity mentioned above.
When they try to make Batman's world feel like it could take place just beyond your own backyard, the suspension of disbelief collapses entirely & the concept becomes laughable.
This comment needs way more likes! Fantastic answer! 👍🏾👍🏾👍🏾
@@elwoodjacobs4353 Personally, I think there’s a sense of irony (that’s probably the wrong word) to it that makes it work really well. I do like how everyone in the Reeves universe treats him like some unhinged freak. Dudes wearing a Halloween costume, taking himself 100% seriously, and can beat the shit out of you.
You could do that with literally anything; fictional or not.
Exactly
Batman can be both grounded & fantastical
@@orhanamin1347you care
how ?
@@ΑΛΕΞΑΝΔΡΑ-ε1ω you have the long Halloween
Exactly
Lets hope james gunn pulls through i want batman being dragged building by building by manbat using a grappling hook in the next dcu batman movie
@@orhanamin1347 my guy its over
@@Totalnikkadeathlmao this guys gotta be a bot
@@orhanamin1347snyderverse ain't coming back lil bro but it's okay you can keep being delusional.
Anyone seeing this please report @orhanamin1347 for misinformation
@@orhanamin1347bro ur a cultist wtf are this trends
I understand Nolan because it was after Batman and Robin but by now we need more comic book y batman
Honestly I would like to see a more comic book accurate Batman like what we got with the Tim Burton films it just seems like each and every time a new Batman movie comes out it just seems like everybody's trying to emulate the dark Knight trilogy hell the animated films do way better job than the live action films when it comes to the character because they're more accurate to the comics everyone thinks if they did what they did with Batman Robin back in the day people will think that Batman will go back to being goofy you can still keep Batman dark and brooding while bringing in the fantastical aspects of the character from the comics into live-action if the Tim Burton films could do it then so can these directors and writers that they currently have working on these films
There’s no excuse now with how good cgi and effects are nowadays and all the stories they can adapt
@@nickjcirillo exactly they can work clayface into a live action Batman movie as long as they have good writers that have a understanding of who the character they honestly need to start putting the spotlight on Batman's other villains in his rogue gallery because he has the best roster villains that any superhero wish they had they put too much focus on Harley and joker all the time it's really time that they take a break from those characters and start putting the spotlight on Batman's other villains in his rogue gallery
I don't mind a grounded Batman but I prefer a Batman movie that is dark but isn't afraid to be comic book movie, that's one of the reason why I like Burton's Batman movies.
The Batman 2004 show probably one of the best early years Batman imo
Batman Forever was a huge success
Not critically
@@capitaokanalha6186 yes it was
@@capitaokanalha6186 yes it was
Love Batman Forever. Still has some of the best Batman fight scenes.
You're most likely going by stuff that you heard online that people have said about Batman forever being a quote on quote "failure" Batman forever was a huge success when it first came out in 1995 it beat Jurassic Park in box office numbers And it made a lot of money at the box office Go back and watch some fan reactions from 1995 there was a lot of Batman fans at the time That enjoyed Batman forever how I know that is because I Saw it myself when the movie came out at the time most of all the hate is just from people online who think it's the worst Batman movie of all time because of the online echo chamber. @@capitaokanalha6186
Just a quick reminder. Saying that this batman is a more grounded version, and they don't plan on going fantastical, doesn't mean that future projects, after these ideas, will have a more fantastical point of view. Matt reeves says that he wants batman to be a grounded version, but it doesn't mean that the project would evolve into something more fantastical
Arkham Asylum series as the prime example of what the movies should follow. They keep Batman dark and gritty while being unshamed to embrace and showcase the fantastical and campy side of Batman
A secondary problem with a grounded Batman is the villains become less fantastic.
No Mr. Freeze, Killer Croc, Clayface, or other oddballs.
In the greater scope, it helps adding such characters because then It makes sense if Batman's in the Justice League dealing with villains way off his ability to fight by himself.
I can understand Croc, Ivy and Clayface, but what is the problem with Mr. Freeze?
He's a grief stricken scientist with a gun that freezes people. I would consider that still relatively normal.
Honestly, it's less of a problem with realistic Batman, and more of an issue with companies milking the shit of something that receives any positive feedback. (Example: The Batman who snickers)
I hope dcu Batman is more fantastical
@@orhanamin1347 ben affleck would’ve died making that movie but you losers don’t care about that as long as you get your shitty movie
@@orhanamin1347 it’s never gonna happen, but keep spamming hashtags if it makes you feel better
@@orhanamin1347 womp womp dead universe is never coming back keep crying 😂😂
You miserable as hell bro lol@@JP-sq4ux
I want a less sci Fi Batman trilogy that's ALSO heavy in the medieval and gothic imagery. Not excessively (tbh that'd be fun too) but really the subtle dark fantasy castle inspired sky scrapers, armor like DARK KNIGHT bat suit, fuck it, berserker Bane (NOT JUST A MINDLESS BRUTE, maybe like Lanius from Fallout?) and a slightly more draconic Killer Croc than we've ever gotten. Tbh doubling down on the classic monster house vibe of some villains would be cool too.
@@ThunderXSurge So a medieval Batman?
gets his back blown out? give that a pause cousin 2:25
lmao
0:49 that’s sad
I really do hope the DCU Batman touches on the more fantastical aspects of the character, while Matt Reeves Batman focuses on the realistic side.
DOES THIS MAN EVER SLEEP? You gotta stop cooking bro, for my health, too fire🙏
And here I am still asking for a live action Batman Beyond movie…
I honestly have no problem with live action Batman being grounded and realistic, that said though it still sucks that Affleck never got his own series of Batman films because his version of Batman was perfect for a live action Batman with fantastical villains.
Keep whining
I don’t like a Batman who kills people. That’s just Punisher.
Please don’t get rid of Tim and Jason and use pre new 52 Tim not 52 bro
Dare I ask what they did to him in New 52?
@@thephantomoftheparadise5666 they made him bisexual and shelf our boy
Made him gay 🙄🤦🏽♂️
@@WeebGuru6That’s Rebirth- Present Tim. New-52 was the one where they made him have a batman obsession and he didn’t become even Robin but a sidekick to the original Robin mantle.
@@ebenezeronile that’s still bad bruh hence why I say pre new 52 cuz after that garbage
I just want a more fantastical in live action…GIVE ME AN 10ft mud man who can shape shift…I want a 8ft ripped alligator man who wrestles and eats people, Give me A Sexy plant lady who controls Giant Plants Plz
Oh and one more thing give me a Joker who ACTUALLY FALLS INTO ACID AND IS BLEACH WHITE SKIN etc Thx 🙏 😅
I want a Joker who actually has a good sense of humour.
@@purplespectre fr
Exactly. Every Joker nowadays is just a Heath derivative.
Yes!
@@TheSsjJoker People probably won’t like it, but I actually really like the clown style makeup from the 2019 movie. I’d love to see a design that combines comic joker with that clown style makeup. Especially if the chemicals seriously scarred his skin and made him look kinda gross.
These directors need to start thinking more like the cartoons. The DCAU gave us incredibly mature takes, while still providing the fun and making it accessible to children. The new movies are just trying to one up the Nolan trilogy by being grittier and more grounded.
He set a tone. And now there's no turning back. Nolan done started something. I don't see it changing anytime soon.
As much as I like Matt Reeves' The Batman universe, but I want Matt Reeves' version to be the last "realistic Batman" ever.
Good thing it’s not that realistic then. Gotham is actually stylised. Joker is born with chalked white skin and a congenital smile. Batman has meta human durability pretty much, walking into bullets and slapping into bridges etc.
You people take realistic too seriously.
This is why Caped Crusader threw me off so much. His Rouge's Gallery were all street-level crime bosses or maniacs, but then all of a sudden, mfing GENTLEMAN GHOST and a child VAMPIRE (they play it off as a medical condition, but it's not fooling anyone) show up.
How can they have an actual, on-god ghost, yet Clayface is only a dude who can mold his face? Even Onomatopoeia got shafted. He's not a man who can perfectly recreate any sound to fool people. He's just a weird hitman who *speaks* sound effects.
GG and Nocturna give me hope they're willing to go fantastical with the series, but this trend of a grounded Batman seems hard to shake off, even for Caped Crusader.
You can get mad at me all you want, but I still want Robert Pattinson’s Batman take influences from the Arkham Games so it can manage the fantastical and noir elements. Plus, this would be a good opportunity for Battinson to rely more on his martial arts and gadgetss.
I just hope they keep the idea of 2 Batmans. Not really a fan of merging the Reevesverse into the DCU.
You can still have the Batmans be similar ages theyll just need to have different costumes, physiques, and different tones, also DCU Batman will have the Bat Family
Agreed, I’m praying they don’t make Batman 40-50 starting out in the DCU. Bruce in Main Continuity gets Damien at age 36 and a new 52. He was even younger at getting him at age 33. Making 10 years older than Clark ruins the dynamic to me of them being brothers. It’s easily doable to make him mid 30s starting out with a full family & I hope they cast that Brandon Sklenar actor from 1923 for Batman he would cook.
I think they confirmed that’s true. It’s a world of super heroes and Superman comes last
people need to realize the most fantastical thing about robert patterson's batman is his suit. it's completely bulletproof minus point blank shot gun blasts
This guys right, Lego Batman is the most accurate movie depiction
Solid video. I disagree that "we've had enough of grounded Batman stories." I'm looking forward to both more of Matt Reeves' Gotham stories and the "team player" Batman of the Gunnverse. This town is big enough for the both of them
Personally the one issue I’ve always had with Batman is just how obvious it is that writers love him. He always has to be the one on the spotlight. It awfully comes off like the only way Batman can remain relevant is to just make him superhuman while claiming he’s just a man.
Batman’s appeal to me has always been that despite standing amongst gods, he’s clearly not one of them. But the insane feats he has brings that into question.
Sokka from Avatar is how I wish writers treated Batman. He’s outmatched by every one of his friends. Hell even the non benders like Suki and Ty Lee could probably beat him easily. But that’s not why he’s needed. He doesn’t need to be a heavy hitter. It’s his tactical mind and ability to stay moral that make him valuable.
Things like punching Flash, evading Superman’s superhearing or Omega Beams and being the best fighter ruin Batman for me. Writers need to stop making Batman the best at literally everything.
Amen to that dude. You summed up why I've kind of started dislike Batman.
@@kermitgotthesickkicks4265 I still like Batman. But I don't like modern Batman fans.
I disagree, I think Batman Being a Heavy Hitter despite Being a Mortal Person Makes him far more interesting, Batman is The PEAK of Humans, he represents what we could do if we really push ourselves, The idea that just because he’s a human that he should always be doing Human things is mind blowing, Batman is not really human, he’s borderline Superhuman, most of the things that he does is due to his intelligence, building powersuits, building Gadgets that can Fight world ending threats. Marvel Characters like Iron Man are actually like Batman, Tony Stark is just a regular human but with his mind can Contend With the likes of Thanos, Thor and Even Odin. The thing is Batman isn’t even at the top of dc, Fighting wise he’s top 2 for sure, And Intelligence wise he’s Top 3, but he’s not the very best, Karate Kid Is arguably the better fighter, Brainiac is smarter than Bruce And Lex Luthor is arguably smarter as well
@@Comicedits39 the thing with iron man is that it’s really thanks to his suit. Iron Man shows us what intelligence can achieve.
Batman to me shows what you can achieve with the power of plot armor. Again with Sokka. Being a human that can’t bend the elements doesn’t detract from his value. Instead Sokka showcases the value in what’s honestly an insignificant person in comparison to the others.
Having Batman pull off crazy feats defeats his purpose. It’s like saying “you have no unless you can be just as fast or just as strong.”
An episode of Avatar’s Sokka’s Master would be pointless if Sokka was just as dangerous as the rest of the Gaang. They don’t need another Toph, or another Aang or another Katara. They need Sokka.
Agree
This is why I'm more excited for DCU Batman/Brave and the Bold than any upcoming Matt Reeves stuff. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed The Batman and I think The Penguin is a great show, but I'm getting a bit burned out on the grounded takes and am more than ready for a more comic book fantastical live action Batman. I'm ready for his more fantastical metahuman rogues like Man-Bat, a Bane that juices up on venom and grows into a monster, a monstrous Killer Croc, and a Clayface that's a big mud monster that shape shifts.
13:09 immediately thought about Hi-Top Films pulling something like this, or any of the "film bros" that only hate superhero movies because they're popular and will glaze any indie or older movie for the sake of it.
As someone who never read a comic or watched an animated show about Batman, I love the idea of a grounded universe (and Batman) it’s make it more believable, real and relatable. Finally a hero with flaws and pros like any human beings. I don’t want it to turn into a semi sci-fi movie with a ton of CGI over practical effects that make the movie less tangible and believable. The fact that his suit is practical or his car just a tuned muscled car makes it better imo because it is something that you might “potentially” see in real life and by consequence makes the movie not only more grounded but more mature as it gets closer to our reality, which is welcomed in era of industrial Marvel / Hollywoodian movies that are being produced as cash grab products instead of what they should be: Art with a deeper meaning that what you see on screen. Same applies to the villains, as a grounded vilain, this one becomes more believable just like the rest and even relatable for some while treating of real socials flaws such as it was perfectly done with the Riddler or Joker, the fact that these guys could potentially exist makes the movie more relatable to audiences than a CGI generated vilain that lost all of his humanity. Finally, the reason I insist so much on relatable and believable elements, regardless of if it is a Batman movie or any other movie, is because it is more prompt to a better overall written story and character development. Something that you will have a hard time finding in those “semi sci-fi” movies where most of the budget and overall efforts are dedicated to action scenes and visual effects (that just happen to be bad, forced and cringe most of the time). The Batman despite its “generic” story about Ghotam’s corruption, as a deeper meaning about fear, loss and the inequality of each individual’s life but can still managed to provide real grounded action scene as it is shown with the Batmobile chase or the believable fights choreography where Batman is constantly getting hit or thrown around (or shot at) which you could compare to real life professional fighters: as they “mastered” their respectful discipline, one can’t avoid to take damage as their opponents (or environment at a greater scale) are almost or more dangerous than the hero, despite all the precautions he took.But what do I know hum ? I maybe totally wrong, that’s just my preference and perspective on the subject.
I would much rather watch a Batman who fights gangsters and solve murder cases instead of a Batman who fights aliens with a lazer gun. Simple as that.
ok why not something in the middle something thats like the animated show
@@Griffith74exactly a balance of both is what i think gunn will try to do
@@Griffith74a balanced of both is perfect, make the monsters make sense, in a way of science, people are begging for grounded batman to end but when gunn jumps to Batman fighting straight aliens out of space people are going to cry, let reeves cook let science cook because we don’t know wtf gunn is cooking
😆😆😆😆💯. Totally agree
@@raven3067 It can be both. The same way in Captain America first avenger Cap was fighting Nazis but eventually in the first avengers movie was fighting aliens and God's. Same thing with Iron Man.
Because the "Batman wins because of prep time" thing makes no f'n sense when you have an actual person in the suit. It becomes very clear there is nothing stopping someone from just shooting him in the face.
Besides the bulletproof suit but yeah
He can dodge bullets, he also moves So fast That The average human Cannot see him with their naked eye
@@Comicedits39 I get that in comic books and heightened movies. In a grounded movie, he ain't dodging bullets or not being seen. It's not physically possible for a human to do that. Also, Batman has no superpowers, except for his plot armor of being the main character and "he's Batman". Again, comic book, doesn't matter. Real person that needs to sleep, have a full-time job, and can be hurt, makes no sense.
Pretty much yeah. Batman is cool because you can feel like him. You watch or play as him and go yeah I could beat these guys up if I was good enough. Comics Batman is cool because he can dodge bullets and shit on top of everything else. You can’t really film a person dodging bullets and have it look good. That’s the problem. In the movie Batman will be established to not have superpowers. To just make him Arkham Batman he would need to have spider sense at the very least to do what he does. Thats why they just give him super armor because he has infinite money and you go yeah Bruce Wayne could make a suit like that, hell he has to to be Batman on a regular basis. I’d say Batman generally uses a grounded approach when fighting meta humans anyways. He has contingencies that exploit tangible weaknesses anyone could use. For him to dodge omega beams he had to do a backflip into a hole on top of a parademon and relocate so it him the demon. For him to defeat dark side he had to rig the whole planet to blow up and make a deal. They won’t do this in live action they will just scale him up or down for whatever the situation calls for and when it’s time to kill the bad guy they’ll have another member do it. Batman in live action should be grounded now his enemies could be fantastical, they don’t all have to be goons. The approach to dealing with the enemies should be grounded though. Or you could just have Batman exorcise a ghost and immediately set that tone that this Batman is different.
@@Comicedits39 you can’t film that. Star wars force speed is an example. It looks bad and is bad for the cinematic universe because any situation a character is pressed for time they should be using the force. If Batman moves faster than the naked eye and can’t be seen any scene where he looks like a dude in a suit now has to be justified. It doesn’t translate to live action. In a game you can slow down or speed up animations to fit his capabilities seamlessly. In a comic or cartoon you simply draw it. In a movie you have to make a script and direct an actor to actually do this stuff in real life. Sure you can use cgi but no one wants cgi Batman. That’s the real issue. Everything fantastical people want to see a guy has to dress up and perform in real life and it has to be shot in a way that looks good.
A real life Batman would die pretty quickly.
It's interesting how people are tired of grounded Batman movies and multiverse Spider-Man movies (even though there have only been three Spider-Verse movies)
I need my boy Tim Drake to receive love from the GA.
Batman isn't a street level character. He's not only grounded. He's a mix of campy and gritty. He's a complex character with multiple aspects to him. Denying an entire side of the character is limiting the character and only focusing on some aspects. Holding him back. Directors need to learn from Raimi who was able to balance Spiderman as both campy and grounded. Start thinking more like the cartoons that have given us the most iconic depictions of these characters. They DCAU is written mature but still accessible to children.
Lol! That works for Disney and Sony and their characters. They tried that and it was a complete circus fest. Nobody wants that no more in Batman and probably would get thrashed in these times. Which I wouldn't be mad. Bcus I remember them horrible a## movies. SMH
@midwestkrazy83turner50 yes, people do. That's the whole point of this video. People don't want things that are too extreme in the sense of having too much campiness or too grounded. They want a balance. Batman isn't just dark and brooding all the time. People actually like it when he smiles and does more than just be sad about his parents. Doing the same take on Batman for the last 3 modern Batman movies is boring. DC can be just as campy as Marvel. Marvel just knows how to balance it better.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp No! It's nvr been that way at WB with the Batman movies. Stuff got goofy when they did those ones with George and Val in them. Nolan has changed the game. And by the look of things, it's a very small portion that even talks about that. WB will not go back down that route and from what I'm seeing? Mad ppl and fans LOVE the Grounded Batman stuff. You see ain't nobody else crying? So sorry that they don't wanna do that campy stuff. Maybe at Disney. But truth be told? Even between the 2( Disney and WB) the cartoons are even different. Disney was always rainbows and roses metaphorically. But WB has had sort of a dark tone to their humor in their cartoons. They just different and should stay that way.
@midwestkrazy83turner50 you're not understanding what I'm saying. I want a balance of campy and grounded/gritty. I don't want full on campy, and I don't want full grounded/gritty. And it's not just this one video, I've seen several with most people in the comments agreeing. Why do you think WB hired James Gunn? It's because betting it all on Snyder and his dark tone lead to failure. Marvel made billions because they were able to balance campy and grounded
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp THATS MARVEL!!!!!! You the one not listening and The Penguin is showing you different! People love the grounded Batman theme. NOBODY is saying this that is within the majority of fans. Nobody is asking for campy Bullshit dawg! You are making things up to try and win ur argument points and they not hitting with me. Bcus I read and do my homework. And the grounded Batman thing is here to stay. NOLAN has changed the game at WB. They haven't done that stupid goofy stuff for 30yrs and that failed miserably. Uma Thurman just came out and said that them movies in the mid 90s were for children. They not making movies for that anymore. Marvel can stay in their lane with that. Bringing Gunn ain't no upgrade dude!!! Idk why you wanna Lapride so hard. But trust and believe when Gunn fails? They will stick to the grounded approach. Bcus they seeing now that this Gunn stuff ain't working. I can tell you just listen to certain ppl and don't read much. But there are articles out there that say that the top brass at WB aren't sure that Gunn will make a big impact on the fans with his movies and what he wants for the DCU. You see ppl didn't turnout for him at NYCC? Everything since Gunn has been there has been flops. Lol! You can have Gunn. But my boy, the majority of fans aren't on board nor supporting it. You'll see. Only thing ppl are loving are The Batverse by Reeves.
Every good Batman live action movie has one thing in common, they all don't go all out in being fantastical
Contemporary Batman needs a lot more Adam West and a lot less Frank Miller and Alan Moore in the recipe
Speaking nothing but truth my guy
DCU Batman should be around *40-45* An established veteran like the Affleck Bats. Meanwhile Pattinson can play the young Millenial Batman in his 30s.🫡
I want a live action version of the public enemies Batman. Dude was scrapping with whole rogues galleries
The main problem with a "Realistic" and, inaccurately phrased, "Grounded" is the overzealous Fanboys actually; in the good sense for once
These cult members are going to go around saying that Batman can beat anybody in comics in general, yet overall with the majority of live-action films, he is primarily fighting normal people. Post the Adam West show, Batman and Robin and Batman v Superman are the only films where he's fought superpowered characters
Ben Afflecks batman is only one that is close to the comic when it comes to gadgets,moves,death of aside kick and costume I hope Gunns batman is unrealistic as hell in this new universe.
Keaton fights scenes in the flash is spot on
As much as I love the Nolan films (being a bit generous with Rises), I think they really did damage to Batman's public image where the only way he can have good, thoughtful stories is if he was in a 100% realistic setting.
it's understandable, doing a good realistic batman movie is easier than trying to do a fantastical batman movie and risk turning the charachter into a meme again. Ben affleck was a cool fantastical batman but that universe just didn't work and pattinson is really good idc if it's "too grounded" which it really isn't
Grounded Batman worked after the Schumacher failure of 90s so Nolan needed a fresh take on the character for the big screen but its really been done to death now. Audiences are ready for more fantastic take on the character and world that isnt limited by whats “realistic” something akin to Batman the animated series or Arkham series would be a great visual take for him to evolve again
I am tried people keep making Deathstroke a Batman villain. Deathstroke is teen titans villain not a Batman villain.
5:06 Really? That is actually real? There is so many Batmen that has their own continuities and they want Matt Reeves’ Batman to be part of James Gunn’s DCU?
They just want No Way Home version of Batman, which is beyond dumb. No more multiverse stories.
11:32 You think James Gunn will adapted Battle of the Cowl story? But without Tim Drake, Jason Todd and other characters?
12:14 I agree I prefer other Batman villains like Philo Zeiss. But we gonna go non grounded villains Doctor Phosphorus(DC has an obsession with Green skeletons), Zebra Man, Orca, Eraser
The only Batman that is non Grounded is Batman: The Brave and the Bold.
13:07 It the same for the Dark Knight trilogy. Seriously Christopher Nolan original pitch was not a Batman movie until WB made it the pitch into a Batman movie.
13:17 I seen a lot of thumbnails. I just not going to see Joker 2. Ever
Back then when first The Joker movie was successful, there people who criticized the movie calling it *“White Man Rage”* I do remember one of the critics like the bird of prey movie.
Oh hypocrisy you are a mystery.
14:43 Man….. Where is the Love for Tim Drake. Before Fitzmartin and Wielgoz retcon Tim drake. Never forget.
14:48 But you should check out The Boy Wonder by Juni Ba. It is a Great Robin and Good Damain Wayne story.
Agreed. Thankfully ever since the death stroke movie died they have been having him fight the titans more now
@@orhanamin1347You need to shut up, I can't lie.
I think the appeal of grounded batman films (specifically the 2022 film) is that it transcends the superhero genre, and as mat reeves described it it’s more of a crime drama than anything else- and that believability makes the film not only more accessible to a wider audience but also easily lends itself to a more gritty and brooding tone that really lends itself well to the character. I have complete faith that mat reeves will beautifully adapt the comics (he is clearly very knowledgeable on them) in a way that is both faithful to the comics but also not too campy or outlandish.
The batman animated show would be a perfect live action
That makes no sense.
Facts
I'd love if Raimi directed a Batman movie using that show as inspiration.
@@VVguy1💯👍🏿
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp🤭. Leave Batman alone please
Matt Reeves' approach is so far successful & created great content. I'm happy with it. Looking forward to someone who can really crack the fantastical elements with live action movies.
Ground batman 😎 is cool and all but it gets old pretty fast
Yup. REALLY fast! I remember what turned me off to The Dark Knight early on; It was that scene where Nolan put in all those Batman immitators just to make it more... sigh... "realistic."
NO THANKS! HATE IT! It took me such a long time to come around to The Dark Knight and see all the good and intelligence in that movie, because it was so disgustingly accurate to reality!
If you ask me the best way to do a grounded batman is like character from a stealth video game, a proper stealth game like Hitman not an action game with stealth elements. Batman can fight but it's not ideal, he's better at stealth and strategy. Batman's smart, he knows the issue with Gotham is the corruption at the top not the thugs at the bottom. So his initial goal would be to get evidence against and leverage on the corrupt elite. His equipment would primarily be designed to help him infiltrate places like a ninja, then later on when he's in a bad position he improvises and figures out how to use them as weapons. Then after he's caught and escapes a couple of times he see's how much he scares the lower tier criminals.
The Dark knight originally took place 6 months - 1 year after Batman Begins
But that was changed to 5 years and some months for the dark knight rises
Ra's al ghul mentions that he was fighting crime for years
Also the definitive guidebook for the dark knight trilogy supervised by Nolan
States that 5 years passed between Batman begins and the dsrk knight
That also can be see in both movies with Gordon sons
The boy was a baby in the first movie no more than 3 years
ANd in the sequel he have a daughter of 4-5 years old and he is around 8-10
the only piece of Batman media that did this start of his career to end was 2004 The Batman (personally) since it showed him as a loner to a member of the Justice League with the Bat Family around him still and him actually accepting them
Oz Cob, the secret long lost brother of Mob Cob from Garden Warfare 2
Nightwing, Damien, Jason and Drake would be dope. Have them as their own characters and Bats having to keep them in check. The villain should be Ras and Shiva!
Only Nightwing, Damian, and Drake. Jason should either be dead or out of the Batfamily as Red Hood
great content man!
Im gonna say it. I like a grounded Batman, I think Batman needs a more realistic and more detective style because it gets little acknowledgement if not completely neglected in a lot media. His rogues might be more limited, but I’d argue that’s where good writers can come in and actually make a new rogue and maybe even a new good nemesis so we don’t have to keep watching Batman and Joker fight for the millionth time. I found this new movie to be a breath of fresh air. The soundtrack, set design, the darkness and grittiness of it was great, I would like to see Batman get some upgrades to his suit and tech as long as the series keeps going, but it’s been awesome so far.
DC has been making batman lack luster fr, limiting his villian roster in movies. Ngl, we NEED an animated TV series or movie using a close reference to the Arkham game series.
Gary Oldman said it best in The Dark Knight - The hero we need but not the one we deserve...Batman is a silent guardian and a watchful protector...I don't think grounded - in whatever respect - really comes into it 🙂
Things is, grounded Batman is way more interesting and captivating than the non sensical main continuity of fucking 40 years of Batman, in his tighty blackies, and his Batfamily with about 20 fucking children fighting mythical creatures without any of these i mentioned barely having real definitive consequences for their crimes, aging and actions. Its way more interesting to see this character being explored as he was created, a urban detective vigilante who fights mobsters, serial killers and other crazy people by himself and have some sporadic allies. Being grounded doesnt means realistic. It means having more depth, humanization, coehesion and some sense of what that world is presenting and its characters, even if things are fictional and unbelieavable as fuck. The idea of a Bat themed vigilante taking down criminals is absurd itself but it has many grounded aspects around it like Batman's is just a powerless mentally unhealthy rich guy fighting crime in a "regular" big city for example, and those grounded concepts are the fun part to explore that Reeves did perfectly, giving the audience the illusion that is somehow "realistic" but its is not. You can even have some supernatural elements in Reeves world and still keep it grounded and making somehow believable in that world context.
I absolutely agree. Tbh
Being grounded doesn't inherently make the story more interesting
@@MILDMONSTER1234 A grounded Batman with a good writing will always be better than a super fantastical Batman with a good writing. Just look which are considered the best Batman comics of all time for most people. All grounded. Now look at the worst...Which Arkham game have the best storyline? The most grounded one, Origins
All we need is Arkham Batman with the bat family in the DCU. Please Gunn 🤞🏽
I can't stand directors, producers, & writers who are ashamed of the fantastical elements of these properties and/or don't care about being true to the source material! People like that should stay the f@@@ away from our beloved IPs and create their own!
Could you imagine if they did a Batman pov movie like hardcore Henry? Like you follow Batman through one night out from his actual pov - whether it be a Arkham game styled story or something new. Either way that would be a crazy ahh movie
Bruh. The character of "Robin" came for an era of goofy, cheesy Batman comics that were aimed specifically at kids. And the whole concept of the "bat family" is corny and lame.
The Nolan films got it right. The latest Batman film was great and the penguin show is lit!
Batman is a billionaire detective In a dark crime infested city. That is when Batman is at his best and most interesting.
Why is it lame? Because you said so? What makes that lame and not Nolan or the latest Batman films?
@Shockkings0714 Bruh. BatMAN is a disturbed billionaire whose parents were killed when he was a child causing him to grow up and become a vigilante that dresses up like a bat and beats up criminals. His antics spawned criminals who developed their own over the top personas and tactics as a response to him. The Batman mithos is tight and well conceived.
The original robin was already pushing it... A young boy swinging through the city with the assassin trained vigilante??? Really?
Batman was an adult with peak human strength and abilities and over a decade of extreme martial arts training under his belt, to go along with him being literally crazy, which are some of the main reasons he was such a threat and unbeatable force against street level criminals.
But a young boy can just jump in and not get killed instantly or be a weakness that can be used against Batman? And then you want to add in a bat girl, a bat woman and two other robins... Lol then a bat dog, a bat cat, a bat horse... Lol no. The Batman family stuff was corny and cheesy, and didn't make sense.
Batman's "team" is the justice league. People who are as powerful or more powerful and have their own identity.
I know it's unlikely The Batman Part 2 will have one of Batman's more powered villains as the villain, but I think Mr. Freeze would make for an insanely good sequel.
The Arkham games are my favorite...just make those a live series.
The closest we got was Ben Affleck's Batman shame that his solo movie never happened
I don't understand why people are like "I'm tired of realistic live action Batman, it's over used" when there are only four realistic Batman movies out of at least 8 live action Batman movies and three of those Realistic life action batman movies are the nolan trilogy. Every other live action Batman movie is definitely not realistic. Hell We all forget that Batman may not have had a movie in the DCEU by himself, but he was still there and was still a prominent character and definitely not realistic. DCEU batman was straight up in his mid to late 50s, fighting Superman and other basically gods and keeping up. And the first 4 Batman movies from Batman 89 to Batman and Robin definitely weren't realistic with Timber and dark and Gothic architecture and dark and cartoonishly evil villains Joel schumacher's acid trip of movies and More cartoonishly, evil villains. And don't get me started on adam wests Batman , who had a movie but just the entirety of everything that version of batman is in is straight up a live action cartoon.
At least Batman and robin had some kind of respect for the source material.
The movie isn't so bad at all
Batman needs to be grounded. He’s that grounded piece of foundation in an out of this world insane universe
Brandon Sklenar for DCU BATMAN 🙏
Who, first time I hear that name
Ill gladly take him over that overrated Alan Ritchson
@@MILDMONSTER1234He’d be a better Wildcat in my opinion.
2:23 "gets his back blown out"
AYO
DCAU Batman was the perfect balance of fantastical and balanced
I love the early years of Batman stories where he’s more of a myth and fighting the falcone and maronie crime families ect. But that’s doesn’t mean that’s all I want to see. I also love the more fantastical elements of the character and the robins and everything. We can have both
13:10 yeah and the worst part is that if that video gets big enough, all the sudden a mass flow of people will swear they felt that exact same way when watching the movie and all the sudden Joker 2 has a fan-base who will say bs like "you just didn't understand the film because you aren't smart poopy pants, and that's why you think it's bad" or even worse because "there's a woman lead" or whatever other shit they want to cook up
Tim Drake really went from the definitive Robin to “who?” 💀😭