Also quick thing I wanted to mention but somehow completely glossed over: The Scarecrow’s mask and glove is in The Penguin! So it’s very likely we’ll be getting him soon which is exciting
We won’t. Julian Rush was supposed to be the Scarecrow but they walked it back for some reason. Probably because he’s going to be important in the Brave & The Bold
Hear me out, Hush. We had the Riddler obsessed with Batman in the first movie, now we have a villain obsessed with Bruce Wayne in the second. It's a good way to explore the duality of Bruce and Batman and plays on the same themes of revenge and seeing whether Batman can truly be more than that.
Your point about duality is spot on and a really good idea. It's just that Hush is too similar to Riddler with his face coverings and backstory and stuff, I think that theme could be explored with another villain.
I think it would be too early for a Hush. This is a young Bruce Wayne and Hush was a childhood friend. I think they would need to be well into their thirties before Hush would have developed into what he became. Otherwise, it comes off as teen angst.
When they do eventually do a Court of Owls story, it should involve Bruce Wayne being asked to join following the death of a previous member. Bruce then has to pretend to go along with it as he gathers information, and Batman can be the one to bring it down.
Thanks. Although, I just realized it could lead to a dilemma where if the identities of the members are revealed, he can’t reveal that Bruce Wayne is Batman.
it would be sick if Bruce was asked to join the Court, and of course he says yes due to his morals and duty as Batman, but as he earns the trust of the Court members, their actions become more and more deranged. An amazing climax would be a court member figuring out who Batman is, and they close in on Bruce during a meeting, so Bruce would have to fight his way out as himself rather than Batman.
I love the Hugo Strange and Professor Pyg idea. I'd love to see a finale where it is revealed that Strange figured out that Batman is Bruce, forcing him to relive the death of his parents with surgically reconstructed Dollotrons as a sick kind of exposure therapy. Maybe Pyg could also use his surgical skills to make Manbat, as a twisted reflection of Bruce's psyche in the eyes of Strange, and have him be sort of a "final boss" fight.
I completely agree with your court of owls take. I ABSOLUTELY want them in the universe, but they are more of a part 3 or 4 villain than part 2. It’s too early in his career for them. Personally I’d like to see scarecrow given a proper main villain adaptation
Matt reeves said he’d do a Trilogy, so he would probably save court of owls and maybe Joker for the 3rd movie. Also Robert Pattinson is Almost 40, he can’t be like Hugh Jackman and play Wolverine for decades straight.
@@commanderponds8308 I agree completely, I’m hoping for 4 batinson movies it’d be cool to see Batman start to figure out about the court of owls in the 3rd movie as a side plot then the 4th they’d be the main villains.
I like your point about the Mad Hatter being an PDF and why that isn't needed. His portrayal in the Harley Quinn show was pretty funny, because every single other character assumed he was a sex pervert and he had to keep exasperatedly telling them that he just tortures and murders people and is annoyed that everyone assumes he's a sex pervert
I think if it’s done properly it can be used for a compelling storyline. Batman Haunted Knight in particular had an interesting take on the character by relating him to Bruce’s childhood, as Bruce had fond memories with his mother that were associated with Alice in wonderland. Bruce finds it sickening that Jervis based his persona off of a children’s book. He also kidnapped Barbara Gordon, who I believe was underage in that story as well. I don’t think his entire character should be based around being a “PDF file” but it definitely does tie into his persona well
@@AceyAce859 they’re too similar in motives, pig brings an unhinged and sadistic flare to contrast against Hugo’s polished deception. It has to be either strange/scarecrow and Pig, but not them together. Even Scarecrow and Pig makes more sense because crow’s hallucinations with actual deformed people of Pig would be horrific AF. But two clean cut doctors both undercover creepers? Nah that ain’t it.
Something tells me we've already seen scarecrow in The Penguin. In the show, Julian rush kind of just comes across as a creepy simp for Sophia, but I think what they're doing is introducing him slowly. They'll start him off as a strange psychologist in Arkham and then reveal there's a lot more to his character and start to make him into the menacing and dangerous scarecrow we all know. The actor has a lot of screen presence and is good at making your skin crawl so I'm actually pretty hyped for this character🤔🤔
@@KingSlayer_. They scrapped that idea though, so no. Maybe Dr. Rush is Hugo Strange or Mad Hatter or an original character but I don't think that he will be this version of Scarecrow since Matt Reeves has other plans for him.
In The Penguin, the new hallucinogenic drug called “Bliss” joins the drug supply. This can only mean one thing: THE CONDIMENT KING USES BLISS IN HIS FOOD CHAIN THIS IS GONNA BE PEAK
Zsasz isn't the most sadistic Batman villain that would be Dollmaker. Dollmaker performs surgery just to hear you scream. Zsasz thinks he's liberating you.
Exactly, Zsasz is relatively tame compared to other batman villains. It's just his aesthetics and personality that make him much more realistic which will always be scarier to a majority of audiences, even if his actions pale in comparison to others
we need a black mask vs penguin storyline as black mask is known to have big ties with politicians through blackmail and such while keeping the theme of the penguin and corruption, maybe as a sub plot with Mr freeze as the main villain, batman currently can’t fight the court of owls in the second film he’s too weak and their more of endgame villains.
To build on your idea, have black mask use Victor zsasz as a hired killer while penguin uses the ventriloquist and scarface in the same manner ;) I can only dream.
Honestly, considering how good The Penguin was without needing Bruce or the Batman, I wouldn't mind there being villains handled entirely outside of Batman. I feel like a second season involving a turf war between Black Mask and Penguin would work incredibly well.
Lemme cook... The Eraser! This guy erases evidence from crime scenes. He'd be good as a secondary villain working for another villain. Imagine Batman searching for a dangerous and deadly villain, but can't find out who they are due to the fact that there's no evidence of anything.
I saw someone say that using Professor Pyg would make the movie a mix between Batman and Saw, and I thought that'd be awesome. I just imagine some sick, sadistic villain who wears a pig head and squeals and oinks while slashing up victims, keeping them in elaborate traps and cages that Batman would have to solve.
I want to see Scarecrow more than anything. I was never completely happy with the Dark knight Scarecrow. He deserves to be the main villain. I don't really want to see the court of owls. I think they're kind of boring. We already got a corrupt elite controlling the city with Carmine Falcone. So, i don't see the point. I especially don't want to see Hush or as i like to call him toilet paper man!
I would love to see Mad Hatter in a sequel, although I think Reeves could give more complexity to his motivations: In this version, Jarvis Tech could have been married (or in a relationship) with a woman named Alice Tech. However she could have been killed during Gotham's flood in the previous, which drove Jarvis insane and led him to become this villain who kidnapps girls, using a special drug to put them under his control and force them to dress up and act like his late love. If they resist Jarvis control or he find out they have something different from his Alice (ex: different eye colors, different age), he freaks out and kills them. This approach would allow the Mad Hatter to act as contrast to Batman and his character arc with Alfred, with Bruce learning to drop his emotional walls and accept the people in his life as his new family, while Jarvis is blind by his obsession in wanting to revive his past (represent by his Alice) rather than find new people and accept them for who they are.
@@alexandrefrauches132 i think mad hatter is julian rush, they share many similarities like being obsessed with a woman, kind of meek but unstable attitude and the two use some kind of hypnosis
@@victorrosales7423I think he would be better as scarecrow and it fits more with him being a psychologist that induces crazy hallucinations with his red light
@@jacobfleming3926 They could do him but I feel like fans will be disappointed in the lack of fantastical elements. Like I’m sure they’ll get rid of the cryogenic suit and replace it with a gritty winter coat
Zsaasz and Hugo would be crazy. A crime scene chase where Bruce teams with Hugo for the first part, then after learning more of how the kills are seemingly nonsensical and getting closer to the reveal of the killer, Hugo starts going off the rails on how the Batman could find and deal with the Zsaasz but believes he didn’t take it far enough
5:41 Ten years doesn't seem likely since Matt Reeves has confirmed that The Batman 2 will take place a few weeks after The Penguin finale (which itself takes place weeks after the end of The Batman) and the trilogy overall will almost entirely be about Batman's early years.
I’d really like to see a grounded Mad Hatter. I think him being a drug dealer offering escapism as you say would be great. Your mind is somewhere else meanwhile he’s controlling your body.
I was thinking a similar thing with how heavily the drug trade has been alluded to in this universe. He could be the origin of the Drops drug, and he’s been trying to perfect it to offer the citizens of Gotham escapism. Like how Jesse justified Meth in Breaking Bad. Jervis could be an LSD-esc junkie who believes the drugs elevate the mind (with escapism) to Wonderland, and wanting to share that gift with the world. Though this Jervis would be more comparable to a Walter White-like drug kingpin but with vastly different motivations. He’s been using the funds of his drug empire to fuel the creation of a new gas weapon to “help” the citizens of Gotham. Could even pair him with Scarecrow as they have similar motives. Chemically providing “help” to people. Though Scarecrow obviously has his own ideas of how to do so. Since this is a heavily grounded universe, I think Jervis’s Mad Hatter persona is just what people call him as he wears a top hat and has an obsession with making a “Wonderland”. Scarecrow though would be similar to how he is in the Dark Knight. Originally dawns his mask to enhance the effect of his fear toxin, and gets his persona as a result of the mask.
I just want to see Lady Shiva on the big screen. Not as a main villain, but a 3rd party force. Penguin promised the Triads protection from Batman, but they feel like he's dogging them around. In their despair they turn overseas for help. Think of her as Anton Chigurh from No Country For Old Men, a newcomer leaving more distraction in an already turmoiled city
Scarecrow and Mad Hatter in one movie would be cool. Especially with the introduction of bliss on The Penguin. They could collab and find a way to turn it into a fear toxin that also acts like a hallucinogen/bad trip that takes people to a wonderland type place. They could disguise it as the same bliss we saw in the Penguin but it’s actually their new drug which leaves permanent brain damage on anyone that uses it. Would be an interesting story and villain crossover.
Man, all these pitches were extremely solid and well thought out. Personally, I still want Scarecrow to be the main antagonist as I feel he's the most realistic considering that if Theo Rossi's Julian Rush from The Penguin really is this universes equivalent to Johnathan Crane, then we've already had some buildup to the character, and we know why he does what he does. The only thing Reaves would have to explain is why Johnathan Crane changed his name to Julian Rush which could be done in one scene. Though, Reaves has said in an interview that The Batman II is supposed to take place during winter with the flood waters still being in effect, so Mr. Freeze is still a great option with a few character tweaks.
Scarecrow is no simp though, so it would be a downgrade to his character to make Dr. Rush be actually Dr. Crane. And the character is British, not Italian
I'd love to see an Arkham horror movie. Have Hugo Strange be the creepy warden with old ties to the Arkham family, and Dr Crane as one of the head doctors, assisting with psychological experiments. Batman is lured to the Asylum, and faces against violent inmates and Scarecrow's fear toxin in a house of nightmares. Plenty of opportunities to include gruesome killers like Zsasz or Pyg. I think Ventriloquist and Scarface have a lot of potential with the haunted puppet angle. In the organized crime world, before Court of Owls or Order of St Dumas, I want to see Black Mask. The Sionis family is another Gotham legacy family that could have deep ties and some dealings with Wayne enterprises. I also think Lady Shiva would be a really interesting addition through the Triads, sent from China to assist on the Gotham front. She could end up leading the gang. Maybe even eventually team up with Batman on a larger threat. For Bruce Wayne's public persona, Jack Ryder and Vicki Vale would be interesting foils.
Honestly getting rid of the emo Bruce Wayne because of Hugo strange is GENIUS. We see him adapt the “playboy” life as a cover to stop others from making the connection of Bruce to Batman. Because currently yeah “rich dude who is constantly away from public eye” it’s real easy to connect Batman to Bruce. But if publicly Bruce is a drunk party-goer even if strange “exposes” Batman, nobody is gonna believe him because Bruce seemingly, is an idiot with a lot of money
I'm rooting for scarecrow iwl. Not even as the villain for the batman 2, although I do think he will be introduced soon as personally, I think "bliss" from penguin could be some early form of fear toxin. I could definitely see crane taking this "happy feeling" amplifying drug and twisting the chemical compound into a fear amplifier. The fact that it's already commonly used in arkham to subdue inmates would make it very easy for the mad psychiatrist to begin testing his new compound.
Killer croc, because he’s a very interesting villain who can work in a realistic setting because he’s just a guy with a really bad skin condition, also Gotham is still flooded which could make for some very scary scenes of him hunting Batman in a flooded area
pyg and jervis are tied for my second favorite batman villains (riddler is first), so seeing either of them in a big-budget movie would let me die happy unrelated, but hell yeah!!! fellow gotham fan!!!
4 characters that I think could really fit well / would be nice to see, in order of least to most interesting: Leonard "Lenny" Fiasco aka The Eraser, a professional criminal skilled at erasing evidence, who sells his expertise to other people for a price, he could work well not as the main villian of a film, but as a side villain to someone else, a city official, public figure, powerful businessman, or maybe even someone within the Court of Owls, I feel the best backstory would be to make him the GCPD's secretly corrupt lead crime scene detective, to give him the knowledge of crime scenes and access to the tools, while having him be active at a time when Batman has long since earned the respect of the GCPD and has worked with them for a few years, and Fiasco tries to use this as an opportunity to try to learn how the Bat solves crimes, so that he can plan how to counter it to make his service more desirable to any would be clients, especially those in the public eye who can't afford to be found out, no matter the price. Dr. Jeremiah Arkham, as the warden/administrator of Arkham, once again, he wouldn't work as the main threat, rather as a puppet used by the one of the film;s main villains to gain control of the institution and it's staff, that being Hugo Strange, working as the head doctor, manipulating and feeding into Dr. Arkham's ever decreasing mental state as he is driven insane by belief and compulsion to cure (save) everyone no matter the lengths, and Strange using him as stand in for that aspect of Batman, to analyze Batman's unstoppable need to save everyone and a city that most would thing cannot be saved, in this hypothetical film's villain importance he would be 4th, and have no connection to Black Mask. Lyle Bolton aka Lock-Up, as Arkham's head of security, who's brutal an inhuman treatment of the patients and belief that punishment with no other alternative is the only way to keep Gotham's crime problem in line, with this behavior and his delusional view of Batman as this unstoppable force of nature to punish the criminals of Gotham being enabled and encouraged by the films main antagonists Hugo Strange and Scarecrow to terrorize the institution as their enforcer, and Strange using him to represent Batman as the big bad powerful crusader, and Batman having to handle the fact that he was the twisted inspiration for Lock-Up and how his mission can be misconstrued into this, with Lock-Up being 3rd on the villain list for the film above Dr. Arkham, but below Strange and Scarecrow, and yes, this is coming off the heels of his amazing adaptation in Arkham Shadow. And finally Two-Face, but instead of the usual DA turned mobster Two-Face, it's an anti-hero Two-Face that is on the side of justice and cleaning out the crime and corruption, like as DA, but his methods can get a bit too extreme, so he's walking the line between what's just and unjust, just trying to clean up Gotham, what ever it takes.
I think that Scarecrow should be the LAST villain in the trilogy the second should establish how people actually feel about Batman and trusting him civilians and the Gotham PD, have scarecrow mess all that up by warping gothams minds and making Batman seem like a villain whilst also working with a unknown entity maybe the court of owls?
I actually don’t like the idea of the court of owls being in this universe, partially because I feel like the court in general feels like a cheap cop out in terms of what makes Gotham what it is. As for Killer Croc and Clayface, I can actually see them working in this universe since while the more fantastical versions are more well known, but the original versions of these characters were actually more grounded.
I love Mad Hatter + Bliss... SPOILERS FOR PENGUIN!!! (kinda) I think a Mad hatter (previous Arkham head under Falcone/Sophia's treatment) and creator of the drug Bliss which was introduced in The Penguin as a drug for the poorer areas of Gotham to "Escape" with. I think his character could have a very creepy, horror element when it comes to his creepy childhood centric personality and motives compared to Bruce's motives. Both escaped their trauma in different ways. This escapism conflict and motivation for the Batman II after Bliss is introduced to Gotham in the penguin would also play nicely into Ozwald's reintroduction into the universe. ALSO maybe throwing ZSASZ in there as another nihilistic foil to batman, embracing this "escape the hell of the asylum/life" could work well with mad hatters drugs. Reintstilling hope and the idea that life is worth living could work super well for a version of batman that "doesn't care if he dies". Lmk what you guys think, I love the Reeve's universe so far...
Imo I would love to see Dr. Crane (Scarecrow), Hugo Strange, Professor Pyg, AND Bane (hear me out) work together! Considering how _The Penguin_ gave us a great glimpse at how corrupt Arkham Asylum was when they “created” the Hangman I figured this would be a perfect place for Scarecrow, Hugo Strange, Prof. Pyg, and possibly even Bane to originate from. Hugo Strange will be the mastermind of the trio using the Arkham’s criminally insane as lab rats, Dr. Crane evolves into Scarecrow because of his obsession with how fear can deviate a person’s physical actions from their morals via the fight or flight response but also discovers a serum that can nullify a person’s ability to feel fear thus making them act on a heartless fight response by default (like how he did in the New BTAS) and has Prof. Pyg as his illegal criminal-in-hiding surgeon help turn one of Arkham’s most violent inmates into their 1st test subject a.k.a. Bane! This would tie in perfectly with this CU because Batman is seen in the last act of the film injecting himself with a steroid like serum that forces him to go into a morally blind fight response (just like Bane’s iconic rage serum) so Dr. Crane’s (Scarecrow’s) serum can just be a modified version of that already existing drug serum. Bane acts as the trio’s 1st puppet, Prof. Pyg acts Scarecrow’s corrupt surgeon/student, Scarecrow is Hugo Strange’s plot enforcer/partner as corrupt psychologists, and Hugo Strange is the main puppeteer pulling the strings behind Arkham’s suspicious sudden rise of ruled inmate “su!c!des” and recent murders calling out the Batman. Oh and we can also go as far as Dr. Crane (Scarecrow) actually originally being Arkham’s oldest rumored uncaught escaped inmates (that’s obsessed with forcing his victims into doing things they have no choice but to act upon) that turned out to actually have never escaped outside Arkham at all but instead k!lls & trades identities with the doctor that failed to keep him contained and murdered his way up the ranks until he was miraculously the oldest doctor working inside Arkham Asylum.
Hate when comics use things like SA and pedophilia to make their stories ‘darker’. Ironically when I see things like Mad Hatter being a pedophile it just makes me roll my eyes and take the story less seriously cause I can feel the writer trying to hard.
I actually perfer the Hatter being protrayed as a pdf or a r*pist with his obession with blonde hair, blue eyed women & his knack for hallucination, hypnosis & suggestion- though I agree he can be much more than that. Gotham is a terrible place & pdf/r*pist are real things, & you can craft dark stories from such (without goong overboard)
Tbh i prefer the obsessed "incel" mad hatter that we got in the animated series. It can be made into smthn really terrifying for people and also is a relatively common phenomena. His obsession worsens and his previous way to escape via reading alice in wonderland is making his isolation and condition worse. Or they can go for a new route and have him be the creator or such of the drops drug, as he wants people to experience wonderland etc which can also be turned into a good story
For the “finale” of the Batman movies, I want an Arkham style kind of movie. 1 night, a shit load of villains coming together to try and tackle Batman. I think that is what they’re amping up for, considering we see what is presumed to be, Joker in Arkham befriending the riddler. I think that’s why they cut the scene with Batman talking to Joker, to save his reveal for the final movie. For now he’s going to be in the shadows kinda observing everything waiting to strike
It would be amusing to see condiment king make an appearance in the future Batman movies, just not as a villain but a minor side character for a single scene or two
The idea of Victor Strange releasing this Arkham villains to learn Batman makes sense. I think he should release Certain villains to understand specific skills of Batman like Victor/Calendar man would be good for Batman’s Detective skills, Strange funding Penguin’s political career would be a smart idea (you see how this could lead to 2 face), and then introducing black mask would be crazy to see how Batman can deal with a crazy drug trade etc Killer Moth & Firefly would be good to introduce smaller criminals as well. You could loop it around by saying The Court of Owls forced victor to do this so they gain information on batman.
I have two lesser known villains I’d love to see. 1. Deacon Blackfire: an adaption of Batman the cult would be insane and would allow for some more abstract ideas while leaving things grounded and it would be fresh. 2. Azrael: a religious zealot who has the same skills as Batman could be not only cool from an action standpoint but also be a major part of how Batman develops his code and beliefs.
Matt reeves said he’d do a Trilogy, so he would probably save court of owls and maybe Joker for the 3rd movie. Also Robert Pattinson is Almost 40, he can’t be like Hugh Jackman and play Wolverine for decades straight
Yeah in hindsight I was looking at this universe through the lens of them doing more than just a trilogy, so it may just be wishful thinking that it'll be more than 3
So scarecrow working for Hugo strange for the second movie. Batman at the end, finally breaks through the toxin and takes down scarecrow, only for him to be knocked out and wake up in a straight jacket, with Hugo talking to him in Arkham. Then the 3rd movie is maybe the old graphic novel of Arkham, Serious House.. and a completely horror movie. Where Bats meets all these villains he hasn’t met yet, but only while he’s under the influence of something. Pyg could be great there.
I just hope Reeves doesn't run into any studio interference, because you know they want the Joker again. He's so overplayed now, that he can only be done as a throwaway gag now, like keep teasing him with stupid Steve Miller Band references or something, and he never actually shows up.
14:31 you’re telling me, Batman DOESNT kill? Explain this spine shattering punch then? 😂 dude exerting hundreds of pounds of pressure and force into man’s face. From a normal dude, this would kill, from Batman, this should decapitate 😂
For me, it has to be scarecrow in #2... and also robin. To me, that scene with the young boy in the first film after finding his dad dead sold me on this bruce having a robin, and the film overall centring on overcoming fears. For bruce, this means his fears around opening up, about family, and all of those repressed feelings that cause bruce to be the disguise for batman, rather than the other way around. I also imagine it would be great to open with him attending a circus act with the mayor and Jim Gordon, part of his public relations thing. The Flying Graysons are the performing act when scarecrow gasses the tent, Dick Graysons parents as a result are negatively impacted by the gas, mis a jump and die. The police and bruce do their thing but also this is where the fear toxin is first used so show that off, and Dick gets away. Batman is clearly having ptsd issues with watching a young boy lose his parents. Maybe the toxin literally makes the parents look like his. Later, while doing batman stuff, bruce catches dick in disguise doing vigilante shit, interrupts him, dick doesnt like him at first, move on. Given that dick is already on the vigilante shtick, bruce wants to bring him under his wing. We see bruce go to the orphanage, go through the procedure of adopting, now robin has been adopted. Maybe he sneaks out, bruce follows him, interrupts, Dick is annoyed again, argues, bruce says hes here to help, gives some pointers, maybe asks him to help with his case. At some point bruce has to dona reveal and i would either have it happen here, dick discovers the batsuit at home and runs away leading to a more shocking persuit, and a bigger argument that this time happens because dick is investigating the scarecrow, tracks him down, and in their arguing they are hit with the toxin, and robin, when hes scared, acts out in anger and fights bruce. Bruce has to stop the fighting, find the scarecrow, and protect dick from the danger hes put himself in. Obviously, this is actually laying out the presented B plot, while the A plot would be something im not smart enough to write regarding scarecrow and whatever games of psychology hes playing that requires the worlds greatest detective and can be made complicated by the crude detective work of the boy wonder.
Here's how you thread the Strange/Pyg story into the Court of Owls. As a supporting minor character, you bring in Sherman Fine aka The Broker. He has a few scenes, doing all the logistics and such for the main plans and plots of Strange (a middle man of sorts). Have him drop a few lines, like, "My clients are happy to support you" or "your investors want definitive results" or such. Maybe slip in some Owl imagery in the background during his couple scenes. After credit scene, he meets with these Investors, slips on a mask, and thus revealing The Court as the next movie's Big Bad. Simple, but effective.
Something I so desperately want.The director to do is have one movie per villain, and cover most of batman's villains. You could make so many movies, with the same batman, and watch him grow villain by villain. Of course, it would probably be a little bit hard to include all of his villains. There are so many. But you could make a movie for him fighting joker (plus harly quinn), then two face, then penguin, then killer croc, then clayface, then catwoman, and so on. You could literally make ten, or fifteen movies, and make so much money. All they would have to do is prioritize good writing over making the money, and they would overall make more money.
If they do scarecrow it would be a fun way to make the hallucinations more “fantastical”. That might be a fun way to incorporate less grounded elements into the movie
I agree that the sequel should (and probably will) have 2+ villains just like the first movie. But if we're being honest here, if there are going to be multiple villains, you need to have at least 1 iconic villain so that a mainstream audience has someone to recognize. Hugo Strange and Professor Pyg are just way too niche to carry half the movie. I think Strange could also pair well with Scarecrow; one obsessed with using fear gas to clean up Gotham, the other obsessed with knowing why and how Batman fights against fear incarnate.
On the flip side to this video I’d definitely love to see the introduction of a Robin. I don’t mind if it’s Dick, Jason or Tim but I think Robin is a pivotal part of Batman Lore that hasn’t been seen cinematically in years.
I love if Killer croc because I don’t think he shown to much attention or have bane again but where he also uses venom since it wasn’t in the dark of the knight
Batfamily, Brotherhood of Shadow, and Court of Owls (all were in the Gotham Knights game; actually had fun with it) are like 3 different ninja clans outside of Japan. That said, yeah, we had grounded Batman for 2 decades now with BvS and Justice League being the closest to giving Batman otherworldly badguys to fight in live action, but still not have a Batman movie.
I know its highly unlikely but I’d LOVE a Batman film with both Hush and Killer Moth. Have both of them appearing around the same time in Batman’s prime and when Bruce Wayne has a lot of publicity, neither of them working together, but both of them destroying his two images. Hush could ruin his image as Bruce, make public donations to companies that have known connections to crime while Killer Moth is going around using a similar silhouette and killing people, both the innocent and criminals. I just personally think it’d be really neat to see how Bruce would deal with both those problems at the same time, trying to maintain both images without revealing anything.
22:32 a lot of people, me included for some time, keep saying how much they want to see penguin getting his ass kicked by Batman but what if on the other end Penguin, due to his now improve status as a crime lord, can somehow get the best out of Batman in some situation they might share in this film
3:31 took me a sec to understand what you meant because, understandably, an oval with two points at the top didn’t register at all as an owl. Could be a cat, or even a bat… huge stretch. The court of owls isn’t even based on one of the horned species; their masks look like a barn owl
Two face, joker, Me. Freeze, Bane, and scare crow would be awesome to see in this series. Poison ivy could work if shes an assassin who uses plant poisons and is code named Poison Ivy.
Okay, i agree on waiting for the court. But, didn’t they say it’s gonna be 3 movies? And they’re gonna make a joker series in the possible future? I have a feeling joker will be the final villain. If anything, i believe the court of owls is the right move for the 2nd. But I’m all for scarecrow too! I think he’ll be dope af in this universe! Good video! :D
League of shadows would be great with maybe lady shiva as the main antagonist with Ra's hinted for future. It would be cool to see Batman struggling to beat lady shiva in a fight due to her being more skilled, this will also establish the threat the league possess.
My top 5 list for new villains. 5. Man Bat 4. Death Stroke 3. Clay Face 2. Two Face 1. The Fire Fly Honorable Mentions 5. Poison Ivy 4. Mr. Freeze 3. Dead shot 2. Killer Croc 1. Black Mask My theories: I think they will use penguin and falcone as the main bad guys for most of the other film, but will introduce a new villain near the end. Then make another Batman movie focusing basically solely on that villain.
If the court of owls is done I think it would interesting to keep them as a mystery throughout the entire movie until there is the big reveal of the court. I think having it be not even sure throughout the movie if the court is real at all would add to the impact of Bruce finding out about them running Gotham the entire time
And awesome plot line for a Court of Owls story could be Bruce constantly running into other wealthy elites who keep insinuating that he’s a part of their secret society, causing Bruce to begin attempting to uncover the secret society. At the same time, Batman has been investigating cold case following a series of murders where the victims are left horribly mutilated. During the course of the movie, Batman keeps encountering talon during his investigation and long story short it’s revealed later on that Hush is both impersonating Bruce Wayne acting as an active member of the Court of Owls, and is carrying out the Court’s mission of hunting down Batman as Talon.
I really want a live action deathstroke to face off against Batman. I want deathstroke as the main villain in part 2, with hints to the court, and I obviously want the court of owls to be the main villain in part 3.
well the one thing we DO know for sure is penguin is a big part of it, so if he isn’t the main villain then the other villain has to tie pair with penguin or thematically go along with him. court of owls is my best guess for a storyline with him aswell, power- corruption- family ties- all big themes with court of owls and our reeves penguin. a 2nd one villain that would pair nicely with penguin is hush, imagine either a more gangster hush or a hush that’s penguin body guard and his “schtick” is that he’s had surgery to look like bruce wayne so it appears bruce wayne and oz are super tight. i’m super excited for however they go and even exited for just penguin vs batman
or i would love to see them use a variety of villains as penguins higher tier goons or hitmen, they could use killer moth with a cool helmet, a jet pack maybe (reason to introduce the batarangs) and a flame thrower, victor zsasz would be a good “goon” type villain lmao, professor pyg could be used more as a “interrogation” tool and be apart of penguins crew- i mean i feel the batman pt 2 could just be penguin vs batman but penguins crew is a variety of smaller batman villains that are in the more realistic space.
I'd also like to add that we can have fantastical characters, as long as they themselves are not pushing the boundary. What if instead of having a freeze ray, Mr Freeze just has an obsession with preserving bodies in ice, or something. Or believes he's curing people by freezing them. Or if we got Deathstroke, and he's just an actual mercenary, who might've killed someone Bruce was investigating, and Bruce needs to find out who hired him. Even magical characters if they're just portrayed as magicians in "Now You See Me" where it's just fooling the masses, but not Bruce. Or even Dracula, if it's just some mortal lunatic who drinks blood. I think any of them could be interesting if done right.
I still think that my first choice would be Mr. Freeze but failing that, I would be willing to give Professor Pyg a chance if it was still an action-packed story. What I really want though is for this movie to introduce us to Robin! I also like that you talked about both Condiment King and Victor zsaz. I think Zsaz might be my third choice.
I’d personally say scarecrow and professor pyg, the mental is obviously scarecrow and physical pyg. With hallucinations showing Batman’s fears and maybe even some grotesque imagery with pyg, it can be pretty scary like leather face type shit.
I think definitely court of owls. It'll be a mechanism for the penguin to be a sort of anti hero. Could be that the court comes in for season 2 of penguin and set up TBM 3 which kinda has to have the joker.
I really wanna see Deadshot also! He could easily fit into the Matt Reeves Batman world! I imagine he would be the right hand man for the main villain in the next movie, assassinating the ones getting close to the main villain. And even hired explicitly to kill Batman (maybe even Bruce Wayne) Eventually when Batman catches DS, that is when DS gives him the info about the main villain. Just my personal thought
I agree with the narrative of Hugo and Pig being the two villains in the next movie. However, I’d like to propose that, similar to how the first film had the Penguin as a side obstacle, Madhatter is a minor side obstacle in the next movie as well. Possibly make it so he team up with Hugo, and that be the bridge for Batman to discover Hugo and Pig’s motives. It’d be pretty interesting.
Dual villains, clock king and calendar man, Se7en meets collateral. Hardboiled detective noir, 3 way fight between bat's allies, clock king and calendar man, culminating in the court of owls' reveal.
Calendar man out brawning and clock king out braining him making bruce rely on both his personas. They could have converging crimes diverge or diverging crimes converge.
tbh i agree with hugo strange being played by bautista especially since he’s a little older and he lost a bit of muscle he’ll look really accurate to the character
Introducing Harvey in the sequel as Gotham's DA and saving his transformation into Two Face for another film would be the most likely thing to do that way we can get to know Harvey and empathize with him more making his eventual turn into Two Face in the future that more impactful. One of the villains i would love to see for the 2nd film, especially this early in Batman's career, would be Black Mask as another mob boss in Gotham for Batman to deal with, along with Salvatore Maroni and the already established Penguin of course. Scarecrow would also be fitting for the sequel as the fear element would be perfect; forcing Batman to come face to face with his greatest fears and overcoming them.
Also quick thing I wanted to mention but somehow completely glossed over:
The Scarecrow’s mask and glove is in The Penguin! So it’s very likely we’ll be getting him soon which is exciting
We won’t. Julian Rush was supposed to be the Scarecrow but they walked it back for some reason. Probably because he’s going to be important in the Brave & The Bold
Wow, spoiler, bud. No need to add this.
@@christopherscottcarpenter responding to a spoiler isn’t spoiling. It was already spoiled
@@WholeShebangYT yo Aint deadline say clayface is in Batman p2
That would be lame. Reeves should absolutely get first dibs on Batman characters over the DCU
Hear me out, Hush. We had the Riddler obsessed with Batman in the first movie, now we have a villain obsessed with Bruce Wayne in the second. It's a good way to explore the duality of Bruce and Batman and plays on the same themes of revenge and seeing whether Batman can truly be more than that.
For me that’s the best suggestion I’ve seen yet. They just need to find a way to connect the two together.
Personally I think the riddler we got was more of the hush persona than the actual riddler
I fully support the Hush agenda and talked a LOT about him in the other video! He’s needed in this universe
Your point about duality is spot on and a really good idea. It's just that Hush is too similar to Riddler with his face coverings and backstory and stuff, I think that theme could be explored with another villain.
I think it would be too early for a Hush. This is a young Bruce Wayne and Hush was a childhood friend. I think they would need to be well into their thirties before Hush would have developed into what he became. Otherwise, it comes off as teen angst.
When they do eventually do a Court of Owls story, it should involve Bruce Wayne being asked to join following the death of a previous member. Bruce then has to pretend to go along with it as he gathers information, and Batman can be the one to bring it down.
AMAZING IDEA
Thanks. Although, I just realized it could lead to a dilemma where if the identities of the members are revealed, he can’t reveal that Bruce Wayne is Batman.
@@hamstermoth9174 it won't
it would be sick if Bruce was asked to join the Court, and of course he says yes due to his morals and duty as Batman, but as he earns the trust of the Court members, their actions become more and more deranged. An amazing climax would be a court member figuring out who Batman is, and they close in on Bruce during a meeting, so Bruce would have to fight his way out as himself rather than Batman.
so basically, what Jim did in the Gotham show.
I love the Hugo Strange and Professor Pyg idea. I'd love to see a finale where it is revealed that Strange figured out that Batman is Bruce, forcing him to relive the death of his parents with surgically reconstructed Dollotrons as a sick kind of exposure therapy. Maybe Pyg could also use his surgical skills to make Manbat, as a twisted reflection of Bruce's psyche in the eyes of Strange, and have him be sort of a "final boss" fight.
INCREDIBLE IDEA WITH THE DOLLOTRONS I need this more than air right now
That would be so twisted. I love it!
lol "realistic villans" from a realistic incel terrorist to a bat shit out of this world Manbat creation
matt reeves needs to hire you istg
I completely agree with your court of owls take. I ABSOLUTELY want them in the universe, but they are more of a part 3 or 4 villain than part 2. It’s too early in his career for them. Personally I’d like to see scarecrow given a proper main villain adaptation
Matt reeves said he’d do a Trilogy, so he would probably save court of owls and maybe Joker for the 3rd movie. Also Robert Pattinson is Almost 40, he can’t be like Hugh Jackman and play Wolverine for decades straight.
@@commanderponds8308 I agree completely, I’m hoping for 4 batinson movies it’d be cool to see Batman start to figure out about the court of owls in the 3rd movie as a side plot then the 4th they’d be the main villains.
I think it would be cool if we get them in a part 3 then in part 4 we finally get to the Joker
I like your point about the Mad Hatter being an PDF and why that isn't needed. His portrayal in the Harley Quinn show was pretty funny, because every single other character assumed he was a sex pervert and he had to keep exasperatedly telling them that he just tortures and murders people and is annoyed that everyone assumes he's a sex pervert
The Harley show is severely under appreciated
I think if it’s done properly it can be used for a compelling storyline. Batman Haunted Knight in particular had an interesting take on the character by relating him to Bruce’s childhood, as Bruce had fond memories with his mother that were associated with Alice in wonderland. Bruce finds it sickening that Jervis based his persona off of a children’s book. He also kidnapped Barbara Gordon, who I believe was underage in that story as well.
I don’t think his entire character should be based around being a “PDF file” but it definitely does tie into his persona well
I don't like the pdf file angle either but I think plain old sex pervert fits perfectly with his character
That strange and pig storyline was actually brilliant af!!! You might be in the wrong business my brother.
Matt Reeves please contact me
@champcpr I always thought Strange and Scarecrow working together makes sense- with Scarecrow being a psychology professor at GCU
@@AceyAce859 they’re too similar in motives, pig brings an unhinged and sadistic flare to contrast against Hugo’s polished deception.
It has to be either strange/scarecrow and Pig, but not them together. Even Scarecrow and Pig makes more sense because crow’s hallucinations with actual deformed people of Pig would be horrific AF. But two clean cut doctors both undercover creepers? Nah that ain’t it.
Real
I have 3 villians that would do well for the next movie
-Black mask
-Mad hatter
-Scarecrow
Give this man a raise 🙏
Something tells me we've already seen scarecrow in The Penguin. In the show, Julian rush kind of just comes across as a creepy simp for Sophia, but I think what they're doing is introducing him slowly. They'll start him off as a strange psychologist in Arkham and then reveal there's a lot more to his character and start to make him into the menacing and dangerous scarecrow we all know. The actor has a lot of screen presence and is good at making your skin crawl so I'm actually pretty hyped for this character🤔🤔
Black Mask was my type for a potential Penguin season 2, perhaps with _some_ (not much!) Batman involvement this time.
Nah not black mask. Just another Falcone and Penguin mob boss which we seen enough of in this universe.
@@KingSlayer_. They scrapped that idea though, so no. Maybe Dr. Rush is Hugo Strange or Mad Hatter or an original character but I don't think that he will be this version of Scarecrow since Matt Reeves has other plans for him.
In The Penguin, the new hallucinogenic drug called “Bliss” joins the drug supply. This can only mean one thing:
THE CONDIMENT KING USES BLISS IN HIS FOOD CHAIN THIS IS GONNA BE PEAK
Court of Owls needs to be like Eyes Wide Shut level unsettling.
@@en_demic this is a must
@@en_demic I think the sequel should set them up for the third movie
I want Calendar Man and Victor Zsasz to both be this universe, not as main villains but they would fit perfectly.
Zsasz isn't the most sadistic Batman villain that would be Dollmaker. Dollmaker performs surgery just to hear you scream. Zsasz thinks he's liberating you.
And doesn’t the doll maker primarily target children as well?
@spaceybunny00007 I'm not sure but I wouldn't rule it out that he does.
Exactly, Zsasz is relatively tame compared to other batman villains. It's just his aesthetics and personality that make him much more realistic which will always be scarier to a majority of audiences, even if his actions pale in comparison to others
we need a black mask vs penguin storyline as black mask is known to have big ties with politicians through blackmail and such while keeping the theme of the penguin and corruption, maybe as a sub plot with Mr freeze as the main villain, batman currently can’t fight the court of owls in the second film he’s too weak and their more of endgame villains.
To build on your idea, have black mask use Victor zsasz as a hired killer while penguin uses the ventriloquist and scarface in the same manner ;) I can only dream.
Honestly, considering how good The Penguin was without needing Bruce or the Batman, I wouldn't mind there being villains handled entirely outside of Batman. I feel like a second season involving a turf war between Black Mask and Penguin would work incredibly well.
Lemme cook... The Eraser!
This guy erases evidence from crime scenes. He'd be good as a secondary villain working for another villain. Imagine Batman searching for a dangerous and deadly villain, but can't find out who they are due to the fact that there's no evidence of anything.
this is a great idea, i'd LOVE to see the more underrated villains in batman
Thuy could be more grounded being a crime cleaning company
I saw someone say that using Professor Pyg would make the movie a mix between Batman and Saw, and I thought that'd be awesome. I just imagine some sick, sadistic villain who wears a pig head and squeals and oinks while slashing up victims, keeping them in elaborate traps and cages that Batman would have to solve.
I NEED THAT
I want to see Scarecrow more than anything. I was never completely happy with the Dark knight Scarecrow. He deserves to be the main villain. I don't really want to see the court of owls. I think they're kind of boring. We already got a corrupt elite controlling the city with Carmine Falcone. So, i don't see the point. I especially don't want to see Hush or as i like to call him toilet paper man!
Finally someone with taste
@@cole6843 I totally agree with you
The fact the Condiment King rant was a full on rant is beautiful
Heyyyyy pookie
I would love to see Mad Hatter in a sequel, although I think Reeves could give more complexity to his motivations:
In this version, Jarvis Tech could have been married (or in a relationship) with a woman named Alice Tech. However she could have been killed during Gotham's flood in the previous, which drove Jarvis insane and led him to become this villain who kidnapps girls, using a special drug to put them under his control and force them to dress up and act like his late love.
If they resist Jarvis control or he find out they have something different from his Alice (ex: different eye colors, different age), he freaks out and kills them.
This approach would allow the Mad Hatter to act as contrast to Batman and his character arc with Alfred, with Bruce learning to drop his emotional walls and accept the people in his life as his new family, while Jarvis is blind by his obsession in wanting to revive his past (represent by his Alice) rather than find new people and accept them for who they are.
I do love the idea of tying him into the flood and mirroring Bruce in that way, really cool idea!
@@alexandrefrauches132 i think mad hatter is julian rush, they share many similarities like being obsessed with a woman, kind of meek but unstable attitude and the two use some kind of hypnosis
@@victorrosales7423I think he would be better as scarecrow and it fits more with him being a psychologist that induces crazy hallucinations with his red light
I want Mr. Freeze 🥶
I’m still holding out hope!
Doesn't seem likely to be honest.
@@jacobfleming3926 They could do him but I feel like fans will be disappointed in the lack of fantastical elements. Like I’m sure they’ll get rid of the cryogenic suit and replace it with a gritty winter coat
@@eldritchpumpkinghost2968than why do freeze if you’re gonna cop out
I want scarecrow
The Prof Pig and Hugo Strange pairing is perfect. You hit the nail on the head with that offering.
Zsaasz and Hugo would be crazy. A crime scene chase where Bruce teams with Hugo for the first part, then after learning more of how the kills are seemingly nonsensical and getting closer to the reveal of the killer, Hugo starts going off the rails on how the Batman could find and deal with the Zsaasz but believes he didn’t take it far enough
5:41 Ten years doesn't seem likely since Matt Reeves has confirmed that The Batman 2 will take place a few weeks after The Penguin finale (which itself takes place weeks after the end of The Batman) and the trilogy overall will almost entirely be about Batman's early years.
This just means we need these movies to go on for the next 50 years which is a win in my eyes
I’d really like to see a grounded Mad Hatter. I think him being a drug dealer offering escapism as you say would be great. Your mind is somewhere else meanwhile he’s controlling your body.
The Penguin has established how bad the drug epidemic is in the city too, so this could just be a way to further build off of that!
@@WholeShebangYThe wouldn’t have to be a major villain just a opening act villain that Batman stops.
I was thinking a similar thing with how heavily the drug trade has been alluded to in this universe. He could be the origin of the Drops drug, and he’s been trying to perfect it to offer the citizens of Gotham escapism. Like how Jesse justified Meth in Breaking Bad. Jervis could be an LSD-esc junkie who believes the drugs elevate the mind (with escapism) to Wonderland, and wanting to share that gift with the world. Though this Jervis would be more comparable to a Walter White-like drug kingpin but with vastly different motivations. He’s been using the funds of his drug empire to fuel the creation of a new gas weapon to “help” the citizens of Gotham. Could even pair him with Scarecrow as they have similar motives. Chemically providing “help” to people. Though Scarecrow obviously has his own ideas of how to do so. Since this is a heavily grounded universe, I think Jervis’s Mad Hatter persona is just what people call him as he wears a top hat and has an obsession with making a “Wonderland”. Scarecrow though would be similar to how he is in the Dark Knight. Originally dawns his mask to enhance the effect of his fear toxin, and gets his persona as a result of the mask.
I just want to see Lady Shiva on the big screen. Not as a main villain, but a 3rd party force. Penguin promised the Triads protection from Batman, but they feel like he's dogging them around. In their despair they turn overseas for help. Think of her as Anton Chigurh from No Country For Old Men, a newcomer leaving more distraction in an already turmoiled city
That's a unique idea I haven't seen yet, I'd be here for it!
@@Leahcimmichael plus It could set up the introduction of Cassandra Cain into the universe
Scarecrow and Mad Hatter in one movie would be cool. Especially with the introduction of bliss on The Penguin. They could collab and find a way to turn it into a fear toxin that also acts like a hallucinogen/bad trip that takes people to a wonderland type place. They could disguise it as the same bliss we saw in the Penguin but it’s actually their new drug which leaves permanent brain damage on anyone that uses it. Would be an interesting story and villain crossover.
Nah man let’s see clay face.
Let’s do a realistic Batman faced with a supernatural threat
In a perfect world!
James Gunn can bring that to us
Man, all these pitches were extremely solid and well thought out. Personally, I still want Scarecrow to be the main antagonist as I feel he's the most realistic considering that if Theo Rossi's Julian Rush from The Penguin really is this universes equivalent to Johnathan Crane, then we've already had some buildup to the character, and we know why he does what he does. The only thing Reaves would have to explain is why Johnathan Crane changed his name to Julian Rush which could be done in one scene. Though, Reaves has said in an interview that The Batman II is supposed to take place during winter with the flood waters still being in effect, so Mr. Freeze is still a great option with a few character tweaks.
@@MusicLover-my6fo I'm thinking court of owls and Mr freeze for batman 2
Theo would be an excellent Scarecrow
Scarecrow is no simp though, so it would be a downgrade to his character to make Dr. Rush be actually Dr. Crane. And the character is British, not Italian
I'd love to see an Arkham horror movie. Have Hugo Strange be the creepy warden with old ties to the Arkham family, and Dr Crane as one of the head doctors, assisting with psychological experiments. Batman is lured to the Asylum, and faces against violent inmates and Scarecrow's fear toxin in a house of nightmares. Plenty of opportunities to include gruesome killers like Zsasz or Pyg. I think Ventriloquist and Scarface have a lot of potential with the haunted puppet angle.
In the organized crime world, before Court of Owls or Order of St Dumas, I want to see Black Mask. The Sionis family is another Gotham legacy family that could have deep ties and some dealings with Wayne enterprises.
I also think Lady Shiva would be a really interesting addition through the Triads, sent from China to assist on the Gotham front. She could end up leading the gang. Maybe even eventually team up with Batman on a larger threat.
For Bruce Wayne's public persona, Jack Ryder and Vicki Vale would be interesting foils.
Super villains team ups
Proffesor pig +hugo strange
Riddler+joker
Penguin+black mask
Scarecrow+penguin ( both deal with drugs )
two face + penguin
Just woke up and saw the notification for this video today's already a good day
THEY DELAYED THE MOVIE AGAIN😭😭😭
Honestly getting rid of the emo Bruce Wayne because of Hugo strange is GENIUS. We see him adapt the “playboy” life as a cover to stop others from making the connection of Bruce to Batman. Because currently yeah “rich dude who is constantly away from public eye” it’s real easy to connect Batman to Bruce. But if publicly Bruce is a drunk party-goer even if strange “exposes” Batman, nobody is gonna believe him because Bruce seemingly, is an idiot with a lot of money
I'm rooting for scarecrow iwl. Not even as the villain for the batman 2, although I do think he will be introduced soon as personally, I think "bliss" from penguin could be some early form of fear toxin. I could definitely see crane taking this "happy feeling" amplifying drug and twisting the chemical compound into a fear amplifier. The fact that it's already commonly used in arkham to subdue inmates would make it very easy for the mad psychiatrist to begin testing his new compound.
i would love to see professor pyg as a villain in a future movie
Killer croc, because he’s a very interesting villain who can work in a realistic setting because he’s just a guy with a really bad skin condition, also Gotham is still flooded which could make for some very scary scenes of him hunting Batman in a flooded area
@@Alf-gm7tf Genius-Level Idea
Think one of the guys said it was gonnae be set in the winter where the water will be ice
pyg and jervis are tied for my second favorite batman villains (riddler is first), so seeing either of them in a big-budget movie would let me die happy
unrelated, but hell yeah!!! fellow gotham fan!!!
4 characters that I think could really fit well / would be nice to see, in order of least to most interesting:
Leonard "Lenny" Fiasco aka The Eraser, a professional criminal skilled at erasing evidence, who sells his expertise to other people for a price, he could work well not as the main villian of a film, but as a side villain to someone else, a city official, public figure, powerful businessman, or maybe even someone within the Court of Owls, I feel the best backstory would be to make him the GCPD's secretly corrupt lead crime scene detective, to give him the knowledge of crime scenes and access to the tools, while having him be active at a time when Batman has long since earned the respect of the GCPD and has worked with them for a few years, and Fiasco tries to use this as an opportunity to try to learn how the Bat solves crimes, so that he can plan how to counter it to make his service more desirable to any would be clients, especially those in the public eye who can't afford to be found out, no matter the price.
Dr. Jeremiah Arkham, as the warden/administrator of Arkham, once again, he wouldn't work as the main threat, rather as a puppet used by the one of the film;s main villains to gain control of the institution and it's staff, that being Hugo Strange, working as the head doctor, manipulating and feeding into Dr. Arkham's ever decreasing mental state as he is driven insane by belief and compulsion to cure (save) everyone no matter the lengths, and Strange using him as stand in for that aspect of Batman, to analyze Batman's unstoppable need to save everyone and a city that most would thing cannot be saved, in this hypothetical film's villain importance he would be 4th, and have no connection to Black Mask.
Lyle Bolton aka Lock-Up, as Arkham's head of security, who's brutal an inhuman treatment of the patients and belief that punishment with no other alternative is the only way to keep Gotham's crime problem in line, with this behavior and his delusional view of Batman as this unstoppable force of nature to punish the criminals of Gotham being enabled and encouraged by the films main antagonists Hugo Strange and Scarecrow to terrorize the institution as their enforcer, and Strange using him to represent Batman as the big bad powerful crusader, and Batman having to handle the fact that he was the twisted inspiration for Lock-Up and how his mission can be misconstrued into this, with Lock-Up being 3rd on the villain list for the film above Dr. Arkham, but below Strange and Scarecrow, and yes, this is coming off the heels of his amazing adaptation in Arkham Shadow.
And finally Two-Face, but instead of the usual DA turned mobster Two-Face, it's an anti-hero Two-Face that is on the side of justice and cleaning out the crime and corruption, like as DA, but his methods can get a bit too extreme, so he's walking the line between what's just and unjust, just trying to clean up Gotham, what ever it takes.
I think that Scarecrow should be the LAST villain in the trilogy the second should establish how people actually feel about Batman and trusting him civilians and the Gotham PD, have scarecrow mess all that up by warping gothams minds and making Batman seem like a villain whilst also working with a unknown entity maybe the court of owls?
I wanna see Deadshot and Mr Freeze.
Thank god this is finally out
I actually don’t like the idea of the court of owls being in this universe, partially because I feel like the court in general feels like a cheap cop out in terms of what makes Gotham what it is. As for Killer Croc and Clayface, I can actually see them working in this universe since while the more fantastical versions are more well known, but the original versions of these characters were actually more grounded.
A secret corrupt evil society can definitely be pulled off greatly
They have already been hinted at
yeah you convinced me with strange + pyg
I love Mad Hatter + Bliss...
SPOILERS FOR PENGUIN!!! (kinda)
I think a Mad hatter (previous Arkham head under Falcone/Sophia's treatment) and creator of the drug Bliss which was introduced in The Penguin as a drug for the poorer areas of Gotham to "Escape" with. I think his character could have a very creepy, horror element when it comes to his creepy childhood centric personality and motives compared to Bruce's motives. Both escaped their trauma in different ways. This escapism conflict and motivation for the Batman II after Bliss is introduced to Gotham in the penguin would also play nicely into Ozwald's reintroduction into the universe.
ALSO maybe throwing ZSASZ in there as another nihilistic foil to batman, embracing this "escape the hell of the asylum/life" could work well with mad hatters drugs. Reintstilling hope and the idea that life is worth living could work super well for a version of batman that "doesn't care if he dies".
Lmk what you guys think, I love the Reeve's universe so far...
Imo I would love to see Dr. Crane (Scarecrow), Hugo Strange, Professor Pyg, AND Bane (hear me out) work together! Considering how _The Penguin_ gave us a great glimpse at how corrupt Arkham Asylum was when they “created” the Hangman I figured this would be a perfect place for Scarecrow, Hugo Strange, Prof. Pyg, and possibly even Bane to originate from. Hugo Strange will be the mastermind of the trio using the Arkham’s criminally insane as lab rats, Dr. Crane evolves into Scarecrow because of his obsession with how fear can deviate a person’s physical actions from their morals via the fight or flight response but also discovers a serum that can nullify a person’s ability to feel fear thus making them act on a heartless fight response by default (like how he did in the New BTAS) and has Prof. Pyg as his illegal criminal-in-hiding surgeon help turn one of Arkham’s most violent inmates into their 1st test subject a.k.a. Bane! This would tie in perfectly with this CU because Batman is seen in the last act of the film injecting himself with a steroid like serum that forces him to go into a morally blind fight response (just like Bane’s iconic rage serum) so Dr. Crane’s (Scarecrow’s) serum can just be a modified version of that already existing drug serum. Bane acts as the trio’s 1st puppet, Prof. Pyg acts Scarecrow’s corrupt surgeon/student, Scarecrow is Hugo Strange’s plot enforcer/partner as corrupt psychologists, and Hugo Strange is the main puppeteer pulling the strings behind Arkham’s suspicious sudden rise of ruled inmate “su!c!des” and recent murders calling out the Batman. Oh and we can also go as far as Dr. Crane (Scarecrow) actually originally being Arkham’s oldest rumored uncaught escaped inmates (that’s obsessed with forcing his victims into doing things they have no choice but to act upon) that turned out to actually have never escaped outside Arkham at all but instead k!lls & trades identities with the doctor that failed to keep him contained and murdered his way up the ranks until he was miraculously the oldest doctor working inside Arkham Asylum.
Hate when comics use things like SA and pedophilia to make their stories ‘darker’. Ironically when I see things like Mad Hatter being a pedophile it just makes me roll my eyes and take the story less seriously cause I can feel the writer trying to hard.
4:30 I’ll be honest I think the best way to bring the court of owls in is in a spin off series to establish them and then bring them into a movie.
I actually perfer the Hatter being protrayed as a pdf or a r*pist with his obession with blonde hair, blue eyed women & his knack for hallucination, hypnosis & suggestion- though I agree he can be much more than that.
Gotham is a terrible place & pdf/r*pist are real things, & you can craft dark stories from such (without goong overboard)
Gotham did hint that Hatter likely had an incestuous obsession with his sister.
Tbh i prefer the obsessed "incel" mad hatter that we got in the animated series.
It can be made into smthn really terrifying for people and also is a relatively common phenomena.
His obsession worsens and his previous way to escape via reading alice in wonderland is making his isolation and condition worse.
Or they can go for a new route and have him be the creator or such of the drops drug, as he wants people to experience wonderland etc which can also be turned into a good story
For the “finale” of the Batman movies, I want an Arkham style kind of movie. 1 night, a shit load of villains coming together to try and tackle Batman. I think that is what they’re amping up for, considering we see what is presumed to be, Joker in Arkham befriending the riddler. I think that’s why they cut the scene with Batman talking to Joker, to save his reveal for the final movie. For now he’s going to be in the shadows kinda observing everything waiting to strike
It would be amusing to see condiment king make an appearance in the future Batman movies, just not as a villain but a minor side character for a single scene or two
The idea of Victor Strange releasing this Arkham villains to learn Batman makes sense. I think he should release Certain villains to understand specific skills of Batman like Victor/Calendar man would be good for Batman’s Detective skills, Strange funding Penguin’s political career would be a smart idea (you see how this could lead to 2 face), and then introducing black mask would be crazy to see how Batman can deal with a crazy drug trade etc Killer Moth & Firefly would be good to introduce smaller criminals as well. You could loop it around by saying The Court of Owls forced victor to do this so they gain information on batman.
I have two lesser known villains I’d love to see.
1. Deacon Blackfire: an adaption of Batman the cult would be insane and would allow for some more abstract ideas while leaving things grounded and it would be fresh.
2. Azrael: a religious zealot who has the same skills as Batman could be not only cool from an action standpoint but also be a major part of how Batman develops his code and beliefs.
Cool ideas and pitches bro!
Matt reeves said he’d do a Trilogy, so he would probably save court of owls and maybe Joker for the 3rd movie. Also Robert Pattinson is Almost 40, he can’t be like Hugh Jackman and play Wolverine for decades straight
Yeah in hindsight I was looking at this universe through the lens of them doing more than just a trilogy, so it may just be wishful thinking that it'll be more than 3
Great video just subbed!!
So scarecrow working for Hugo strange for the second movie. Batman at the end, finally breaks through the toxin and takes down scarecrow, only for him to be knocked out and wake up in a straight jacket, with Hugo talking to him in Arkham. Then the 3rd movie is maybe the old graphic novel of Arkham, Serious House.. and a completely horror movie. Where Bats meets all these villains he hasn’t met yet, but only while he’s under the influence of something. Pyg could be great there.
I just hope Reeves doesn't run into any studio interference, because you know they want the Joker again. He's so overplayed now, that he can only be done as a throwaway gag now, like keep teasing him with stupid Steve Miller Band references or something, and he never actually shows up.
Usually I would've been concerned, but I trust Gunn will let him cook
14:31 you’re telling me, Batman DOESNT kill? Explain this spine shattering punch then? 😂 dude exerting hundreds of pounds of pressure and force into man’s face. From a normal dude, this would kill, from Batman, this should decapitate 😂
For me, it has to be scarecrow in #2... and also robin.
To me, that scene with the young boy in the first film after finding his dad dead sold me on this bruce having a robin, and the film overall centring on overcoming fears. For bruce, this means his fears around opening up, about family, and all of those repressed feelings that cause bruce to be the disguise for batman, rather than the other way around.
I also imagine it would be great to open with him attending a circus act with the mayor and Jim Gordon, part of his public relations thing. The Flying Graysons are the performing act when scarecrow gasses the tent, Dick Graysons parents as a result are negatively impacted by the gas, mis a jump and die. The police and bruce do their thing but also this is where the fear toxin is first used so show that off, and Dick gets away. Batman is clearly having ptsd issues with watching a young boy lose his parents. Maybe the toxin literally makes the parents look like his.
Later, while doing batman stuff, bruce catches dick in disguise doing vigilante shit, interrupts him, dick doesnt like him at first, move on. Given that dick is already on the vigilante shtick, bruce wants to bring him under his wing. We see bruce go to the orphanage, go through the procedure of adopting, now robin has been adopted. Maybe he sneaks out, bruce follows him, interrupts, Dick is annoyed again, argues, bruce says hes here to help, gives some pointers, maybe asks him to help with his case.
At some point bruce has to dona reveal and i would either have it happen here, dick discovers the batsuit at home and runs away leading to a more shocking persuit, and a bigger argument that this time happens because dick is investigating the scarecrow, tracks him down, and in their arguing they are hit with the toxin, and robin, when hes scared, acts out in anger and fights bruce. Bruce has to stop the fighting, find the scarecrow, and protect dick from the danger hes put himself in.
Obviously, this is actually laying out the presented B plot, while the A plot would be something im not smart enough to write regarding scarecrow and whatever games of psychology hes playing that requires the worlds greatest detective and can be made complicated by the crude detective work of the boy wonder.
Here's how you thread the Strange/Pyg story into the Court of Owls. As a supporting minor character, you bring in Sherman Fine aka The Broker. He has a few scenes, doing all the logistics and such for the main plans and plots of Strange (a middle man of sorts). Have him drop a few lines, like, "My clients are happy to support you" or "your investors want definitive results" or such. Maybe slip in some Owl imagery in the background during his couple scenes.
After credit scene, he meets with these Investors, slips on a mask, and thus revealing The Court as the next movie's Big Bad. Simple, but effective.
Best Batman 2 video yet
I think Anarky could be a cool villain that could be introduced
Finally some one who gets it
Something I so desperately want.The director to do is have one movie per villain, and cover most of batman's villains. You could make so many movies, with the same batman, and watch him grow villain by villain. Of course, it would probably be a little bit hard to include all of his villains. There are so many. But you could make a movie for him fighting joker (plus harly quinn), then two face, then penguin, then killer croc, then clayface, then catwoman, and so on. You could literally make ten, or fifteen movies, and make so much money. All they would have to do is prioritize good writing over making the money, and they would overall make more money.
If they do scarecrow it would be a fun way to make the hallucinations more “fantastical”. That might be a fun way to incorporate less grounded elements into the movie
I agree that the sequel should (and probably will) have 2+ villains just like the first movie. But if we're being honest here, if there are going to be multiple villains, you need to have at least 1 iconic villain so that a mainstream audience has someone to recognize. Hugo Strange and Professor Pyg are just way too niche to carry half the movie. I think Strange could also pair well with Scarecrow; one obsessed with using fear gas to clean up Gotham, the other obsessed with knowing why and how Batman fights against fear incarnate.
On the flip side to this video I’d definitely love to see the introduction of a Robin. I don’t mind if it’s Dick, Jason or Tim but I think Robin is a pivotal part of Batman Lore that hasn’t been seen cinematically in years.
I love if Killer croc because I don’t think he shown to much attention or have bane again but where he also uses venom since it wasn’t in the dark of the knight
i'm pretty sure in some capacity whether it be a small cameo or core villain Joker, Harley Quinn, Penguin, Riddler, Victor Zsasz will all appear
Batfamily, Brotherhood of Shadow, and Court of Owls (all were in the Gotham Knights game; actually had fun with it) are like 3 different ninja clans outside of Japan. That said, yeah, we had grounded Batman for 2 decades now with BvS and Justice League being the closest to giving Batman otherworldly badguys to fight in live action, but still not have a Batman movie.
I know its highly unlikely but I’d LOVE a Batman film with both Hush and Killer Moth. Have both of them appearing around the same time in Batman’s prime and when Bruce Wayne has a lot of publicity, neither of them working together, but both of them destroying his two images. Hush could ruin his image as Bruce, make public donations to companies that have known connections to crime while Killer Moth is going around using a similar silhouette and killing people, both the innocent and criminals. I just personally think it’d be really neat to see how Bruce would deal with both those problems at the same time, trying to maintain both images without revealing anything.
Court of Owls could totally work for a final film in the trilogy
22:32 a lot of people, me included for some time, keep saying how much they want to see penguin getting his ass kicked by Batman but what if on the other end Penguin, due to his now improve status as a crime lord, can somehow get the best out of Batman in some situation they might share in this film
3:31 took me a sec to understand what you meant because, understandably, an oval with two points at the top didn’t register at all as an owl. Could be a cat, or even a bat… huge stretch. The court of owls isn’t even based on one of the horned species; their masks look like a barn owl
Two face, joker, Me. Freeze, Bane, and scare crow would be awesome to see in this series. Poison ivy could work if shes an assassin who uses plant poisons and is code named Poison Ivy.
17:52 this came up as condom king in the subtitles btw, a true king CK
Okay, i agree on waiting for the court. But, didn’t they say it’s gonna be 3 movies? And they’re gonna make a joker series in the possible future? I have a feeling joker will be the final villain. If anything, i believe the court of owls is the right move for the 2nd. But I’m all for scarecrow too! I think he’ll be dope af in this universe! Good video! :D
League of shadows would be great with maybe lady shiva as the main antagonist with Ra's hinted for future.
It would be cool to see Batman struggling to beat lady shiva in a fight due to her being more skilled, this will also establish the threat the league possess.
I love the concept of scarecrow giving a horror element to this line of Batman movies. I’m surprised it hasn’t been done yet.
You cooked with the strange pyg concept
My top 5 list for new villains.
5. Man Bat
4. Death Stroke
3. Clay Face
2. Two Face
1. The Fire Fly
Honorable Mentions
5. Poison Ivy
4. Mr. Freeze
3. Dead shot
2. Killer Croc
1. Black Mask
My theories:
I think they will use penguin and falcone as the main bad guys for most of the other film, but will introduce a new villain near the end. Then make another Batman movie focusing basically solely on that villain.
If the court of owls is done I think it would interesting to keep them as a mystery throughout the entire movie until there is the big reveal of the court. I think having it be not even sure throughout the movie if the court is real at all would add to the impact of Bruce finding out about them running Gotham the entire time
And awesome plot line for a Court of Owls story could be Bruce constantly running into other wealthy elites who keep insinuating that he’s a part of their secret society, causing Bruce to begin attempting to uncover the secret society. At the same time, Batman has been investigating cold case following a series of murders where the victims are left horribly mutilated.
During the course of the movie, Batman keeps encountering talon during his investigation and long story short it’s revealed later on that Hush is both impersonating Bruce Wayne acting as an active member of the Court of Owls, and is carrying out the Court’s mission of hunting down Batman as Talon.
I really want a live action deathstroke to face off against Batman. I want deathstroke as the main villain in part 2, with hints to the court, and I obviously want the court of owls to be the main villain in part 3.
well the one thing we DO know for sure is penguin is a big part of it, so if he isn’t the main villain then the other villain has to tie pair with penguin or thematically go along with him. court of owls is my best guess for a storyline with him aswell, power- corruption- family ties- all big themes with court of owls and our reeves penguin. a 2nd one villain that would pair nicely with penguin is hush, imagine either a more gangster hush or a hush that’s penguin body guard and his “schtick” is that he’s had surgery to look like bruce wayne so it appears bruce wayne and oz are super tight. i’m super excited for however they go and even exited for just penguin vs batman
or i would love to see them use a variety of villains as penguins higher tier goons or hitmen, they could use killer moth with a cool helmet, a jet pack maybe (reason to introduce the batarangs) and a flame thrower, victor zsasz would be a good “goon” type villain lmao, professor pyg could be used more as a “interrogation” tool and be apart of penguins crew- i mean i feel the batman pt 2 could just be penguin vs batman but penguins crew is a variety of smaller batman villains that are in the more realistic space.
I'd also like to add that we can have fantastical characters, as long as they themselves are not pushing the boundary.
What if instead of having a freeze ray, Mr Freeze just has an obsession with preserving bodies in ice, or something. Or believes he's curing people by freezing them.
Or if we got Deathstroke, and he's just an actual mercenary, who might've killed someone Bruce was investigating, and Bruce needs to find out who hired him.
Even magical characters if they're just portrayed as magicians in "Now You See Me" where it's just fooling the masses, but not Bruce.
Or even Dracula, if it's just some mortal lunatic who drinks blood. I think any of them could be interesting if done right.
I think they could use court of owls possible for a 3rd movie when Patterson batman is more experienced
They were teasing scarecrow in the penguin so id love scarecrow
I still think that my first choice would be Mr. Freeze but failing that, I would be willing to give Professor Pyg a chance if it was still an action-packed story. What I really want though is for this movie to introduce us to Robin! I also like that you talked about both Condiment King and Victor zsaz. I think Zsaz might be my third choice.
The arkham doctor from the penguin using the new bliss drug is a good way of connecting it
I’d personally say scarecrow and professor pyg, the mental is obviously scarecrow and physical pyg. With hallucinations showing Batman’s fears and maybe even some grotesque imagery with pyg, it can be pretty scary like leather face type shit.
Honestly if they introduce Pyg similar to how they did in Arkham Knight I wouldn’t be upset at that
professer pyg would make it so dark
I think definitely court of owls. It'll be a mechanism for the penguin to be a sort of anti hero. Could be that the court comes in for season 2 of penguin and set up TBM 3 which kinda has to have the joker.
I really wanna see Deadshot also!
He could easily fit into the Matt Reeves Batman world!
I imagine he would be the right hand man for the main villain in the next movie, assassinating the ones getting close to the main villain.
And even hired explicitly to kill Batman (maybe even Bruce Wayne)
Eventually when Batman catches DS, that is when DS gives him the info about the main villain.
Just my personal thought
Black Mask and Bane working together would be a fantastic story
I agree with the narrative of Hugo and Pig being the two villains in the next movie. However, I’d like to propose that, similar to how the first film had the Penguin as a side obstacle, Madhatter is a minor side obstacle in the next movie as well. Possibly make it so he team up with Hugo, and that be the bridge for Batman to discover Hugo and Pig’s motives. It’d be pretty interesting.
I like that!
Dual villains, clock king and calendar man, Se7en meets collateral. Hardboiled detective noir, 3 way fight between bat's allies, clock king and calendar man, culminating in the court of owls' reveal.
Calendar man out brawning and clock king out braining him making bruce rely on both his personas. They could have converging crimes diverge or diverging crimes converge.
tbh i agree with hugo strange being played by bautista especially since he’s a little older and he lost a bit of muscle he’ll look really accurate to the character
Fully agree with late stage Court of Owls appearance. Maybe a two part film.
Introducing Harvey in the sequel as Gotham's DA and saving his transformation into Two Face for another film would be the most likely thing to do that way we can get to know Harvey and empathize with him more making his eventual turn into Two Face in the future that more impactful. One of the villains i would love to see for the 2nd film, especially this early in Batman's career, would be Black Mask as another mob boss in Gotham for Batman to deal with, along with Salvatore Maroni and the already established Penguin of course. Scarecrow would also be fitting for the sequel as the fear element would be perfect; forcing Batman to come face to face with his greatest fears and overcoming them.