The Man Bat element is what makes this pitch so dope. Batman is having trouble being 2 different personas when he is haunted by a creature who has no ability to control which persona he can be. Poetry.
@@BlueCheeseLucci yeah in some reference/concept art&images it’s called “adrenaline” but adrenaline doesn’t normally have that hue so it’s like that it’s a Wayne R&D formula still in its infancy stage. So to make a long story short, yeah I think it’s venom too 😭.
I think one other reason why Freeze would be cool is simply because you could have the film set during winter and have another opening monologue by Batman except it's christmas eve instead of halloween. And then the poster could be blue instead of red. In other words the *aesthetics*
Yes, Victor has done a lot of bad things in the name of love, but he’s the kind of baddie who a lot of people would do the exact same thing he did for Nora in his situation.
I’m pretty torn on this pitch. I think Hugo Strange is perfect for a storyline about Arkham, which seems right on time in this version of Batman’s story. However, I think Strange making monsters like ManBat feels very off in Reeves’s world. Moreover, I think the jump to Bruce no longer being a recluse, while being a logical jump to make from the previous film, is an arc that should be seen and not told. The process of him becoming a public figure like his father, his first press conference in years, these are things that should be big moments in a film, not happening between them.
I agree. I think that this pitch is perfect for a third film and that the second film should highlight Bruce’s effort and progress to develop that persona. I think a storyline with Mr. Freeze could work for the second movie as Freeze not only dabbles with the idea of losing someone he loves (Bruce’s only fear i.e. almost losing Alfred) but also you can ground the idea of him needing a sub-zero suit to that being apart of a psychosomatic disorder that’s helping him cope with what has happened to Nora. This lays the foundation for Batman to truly build on what has been established in the first film, as someone who is here to help, by having him save Nora (perhaps tapping into the resources Bruce has at Wayne Enterprises) and also by having him save/rehabilitate freeze (since the psychosomatic disorder is a mental dilemma that can be treated at Arkham pushing Bruce to use his resources to invest in Arkham to “help” freeze) this lays the ground work for this pitch to be the third film. Also be having Freeze in the second film it progress how far Reeves can go into the supernatural, by establishing that “unrealistic” things can happen as long as they have a realistic and scientific basis. So a failed experiment that turns a man into a bat is now a little more “grounded”.
Fully agreed. While Reeves's take on things is definitely a lot more stylized than Nolan's, it's still very grounded in reality for the most part, perhaps even more so thus far when certain aspects are taken into account. Introducing literal man-made monsters into this stylized but realistic world would cause a severe case of tonal whiplash not only for me, but for many others who also loved The Batman. That's not to say Hugo Strange couldn't work in a sequel; he absolutely could. But not if he's some mad scientist whose experiments result in creatures that are completely at odds with the gritty world Reeves has created, not to mention that I doubt Pattinson would be down with going in such a radically different direction either. IIRC one of the biggest reasons he accepted the role was that he was promised it would remain grounded and taken seriously without veering too far off into a fantastical direction.
I think a cool way for Hugo's monsters to work (including ManBat and Killer Crock) is if they're not actually monsters, but Hugo kinda pulled off a Rhino and they're actually trapped in some animal suits. Like, they're suits that are pretty much sewn in their skin. It'd be horrible, grotesque and it kinda fits in Reeves' world since it's grounded in reality
The potential for Scarecrow has already been teased within this new batman universe with psychedelic drugs such as “Drops” being common place in the universe. It’s totally possible that Crane is at Arkham Asylum right now.
I think having man-bat would be a great catalyst for batman's refined winged suit. He could see the way man-bat flies. He could also see how he has issue with fighting man-bat in there first encounter which inspires him to make the definitive cape glider we all know and love.
The more I watch this video… I’m starting to think that Nando doesn’t REALLY understand characters from Batmans lore… like Mr. Freeze Also, @Dimitris Gel … you are right!
Yes what you just said is the basis of Mr. Freeze. His desperation to save Nora and his willingness to do whatever it takes to do it is the fear of losing loved ones. And this, like you said, is the perfect pitch to target in the sequel. Two men torn in their ideals due to their fears: one who stops crime without resorting to killing and the other who kills to get what he wants to save his wife. Two opposites dealing with similar ideals or similar threats. Perhaps adding a second villain here who is making this difficult for Freeze can work to make both Batman and Freeze go toe to toe with one another. Not necessarily Penguin but maybe a crime lord challenging Penguin like Black Mask or maybe an unknown like Great White Shark (introducing his eventually physical appearance change because of Freeze) or anyone from the rogues gallery that has not been done yet who can be written to challenge Freeze and make it hard for him to save Nora. There are many avenues to go with this that is not revenge centered.
I really need a movie where Clayface is a Hugo Strange Monster, because it would justify Clayface’s origin a lot better than his traditional origin, and it would allow us to have him in an otherwise grounded movie. Plus, a man who can shapeshift is an amazing antagonist for a detective story.
@@jacobsims8307perhaps they could do a story where strange, knowing human psychology, is the one who causes the addiction and then in turn, creating a monster man
This arc would fit in well with Hugo Strange being a former employee at Wayne enterprises doing research that could help people, but loses funding due to Bruce spending time as Batman
6:40 Freeze is not just about vengence. There's the whole drama of him trying to save his wife at all cost, which already makes him different from Riddler, who is selfish and crimes were result of his desire for attention. The fact he does all this evil just to save the woman loves could work as great test to Batman development, with him discovering about Nora and in the end defeating Freeze not by punching him but rather by saving his wife (maybe with the help of scientists of Wayne enterprise), showing how he grow into a hero who actually helps people in need, including his enemies.
This. And also it's right in batman development from being vengeance then turning into justice in the first movie, and in the second one, using his empathy to fight a man trying to save his wife (his remaining humanity)
@@anthonydrew9925 Exactly, plus, to find cure for Freeze wife Bruce would have to use the resources of his company, which could be oportunity to introduce characters like Lucius Fox and Leslie Thompkins, showing Bruce finding new allies and unsing his company to help people in the city.
@@SatchitBhogle Yes. Freeze also works as representation of Batman fear of loss. Just like the hero, he is trying save the woman he loves even if means putting others in danger. Batman has similar problem as he usually pushes people away not wanting o put them in danger or lose them like he lost his parents. They both use a dark emotionally detach persona to hide their isecurites and fear of losing those close to them.
I also think for this “grounded” universe, instead of freeze actually needing a sub-zero suit to stay alive he needs the suit to help cope with what happened to his wife (psychosomatic disorder) mentally he is so traumatized that the only way for him to cope is to make that suit, because of this, by the end of the movie Bruce decides that he needs to invest in Arkham and that sets everything up for this video to be the third movie.
The Martha Wayne / Arkham point is so interesting in the context of the flashpoint story where she becomes the Joker. If you have her being prone to manic episodes in the main storyline, then that turn becomes that much more believable. I’d also love to see an Arkham that (at least on the surface) is actively trying to help normal peoples mental health - but that under the surface they’re treating everyone as they’d treat the criminally insane.
What I love about including Harvey Dent in all this is that everyone watching will be on edge every time he is on screen, just because they know who is he is going to eventually be. I do agree, building up the relationship between Dent and Wayne early on will make the fall from grace hurt even more.
Exactly, reminds me of something I've heard said about Dr Octavius in Spiderman PS4, everyone knows he's going to be a bad guy, the game can't make that a shocking twist, so instead they make him so endearing that you dread his inevitable turn.
I love this idea too. I would introduce Harvey in the 2nd movie and turn him to Two Face in the 3rd or 4th movie assuming they do 5, which is what I hope for
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy I think they’re only doing 3 (from what everyone says) but it’d be so hard to develop a ton of characters that everyone wants. I don’t know how they’re going to pull that off (personal I want ivy, harley, robin, killer moth, etc).
Can’t lie, I disagree with Freeze, it can bring out an emotion of empathy in Bruce and can teach him that his villains also have a struggle and a story, and can be an emotional ride for him.
id personally say *this* sounds like a movie 3. exploring arkham is more impactful if we have another movies worth of villains in there, and while i hadnt heard the mr freeze mini pitch before now i really agreed with all the reasons you gave for why people want it. if the only holdup is the theme not matching, shift it a little. turn mr freeze away from revenge and towards “wanting to save his wife” and it can like up w where bruce is as trying to help people
I agree, and I see this series of movies being longer than a trilogy, only question I have is where would this take Bruce as a character? What type of arc would we see from this, and what would that set up for future films?
Okay so I did some thinking and I think you could spin it as Freeze is so disheveled by the loss of his wife (or rather her current state) that he suffers from psychosomatic symptom disorder and believes he must stay cold to stay alive. In addition to that he goes on his regular “revenge/save wifey” escapade until he is stopped by Batman. By the end of the movie Bruce makes the connection that Arkham is a part of his mothers legacy and Freeze could be rehabilitated and saved through Arkham so he decides to invest in Arkham. That sets everything up perfectly for this movie to be the third installment. Lmk what you think.
@@svofoy_tre I have been saying this since I saw The Batman, it should be more than a trilogy, ideally 4 movies maybe 5. They could easily pull it off if they keep the steam from the first outing. They need to do the court either 4th or 5th and Joker probably 3rd or 4th. Two Face in 3rd or 4th. I think Freeze, Ivy, Scarecrow, Ras, Bane, Strange, Black Mask, and Hush all could work too
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy I was thinking more along the line of Harry Potter and have it be like 8 parts. I know that’s a lot but Reeves and Pattinson genuinely seem to love the character so I think it’s doable. Plus it allows for a lot of the rogues to be on screen without having to jam them in there.
I feel like another lesson Bruce should take from the confrontation is that everyone is in need of help, support, and saving. Not just the average citizens, but the worst of his rogues, especially. That’s one thing I live about Batman is that once he grows to become THE BATMAN, he is just as motivated to save the villains as he is their victims. He sees them as sick, lost, or in pain. “Even after everything you’ve done, I still would have saved you.” One of my favorite episodes of Batman The Animated Series (Old Wounds), Batman gives a henchman a second chance at life by hiring him to work security at Wayne Enterprises so that he can support his family. It would tie in to Bruce’s efforts to rebuild Arkham to be a better care facility for Batman to show a similar goal for saving others and giving them second chances.
I still wanna see Scarecrow now because Batman said how he had mastered fear, and I’d love to see that idea challenged and get some genuinely scary superhero horror
I feel like the problem with this pitch is that it fails as a mystery. We immediately know the man behind everything is Strange. Where's the noir angle? The dark secrets? Also, the way you characterize Strange, he comes off as a moustache twirling villain instead of a man who genuinely believes Bruce is """sick""" and needs help, which makes the conflict far less interesting.
I think that's the point of Hugo Strange though. He can genuinely believe that someone is mentally sick but never want them to get help. He sees the patients basically as a freak show, with the added benefit of getting them to do his bidding
This pitch is GREAT. You're always so thoughtful about themes and characterization. Also, please consider making a Casting The Batman's Remaining Rogues video! My wife and I always lose our minds about your casting videos, and Giancarlo Esposito as Hugo Strange is positively inspired. We would love to see who you'd come up with for Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Two-Face, Mad Hatter, Ventriloquist, Scarecrow, etc. as well as who you're imagining for Professor Pyg and White Rabbit!
some possible starting points for each character: Rebecca Ferguson, Margaret Qualley, or Evan Rachel Wood as Poison Ivy Stanley Tucci or Jeremy Strong as Mr. Freeze David Oyelowo, Steven Yeun, or Ryan Gosling as Two-Face Domnhall Gleeson or Richard Ayoade as Mad Hatter Michael Stuhlbarg or Richard Jenkins as Ventriloquist Lakeith Stanfield or Timothy Simons as Scarecrow Erin Moriarty as White Rabbit Tim Heidecker as Professor Pyg
Honestly as someone who rates Giancalro Esposito as one of their favourite actors I don’t want him playing a character like Hugo Strange. He’s already been typecast as the calm and ruthless villain in a suit many times since Breaking Bad, I’d rather have him play a different kind of role if he was to star in a comic book movie.
@@mrbluesky4838 Anyone specific in mind? The man definitely has range. My favorite Esposito performance is as Buggin' Out in Do the Right Thing--very much the opposite of "calm" and "ruthless."
Me having giancarlo esposito in my head when you said, “I can never forget Martha Wayne, neither can you, Bruce”, gave me chills, this is actually not a bad pitch but for the Arkham series I could see strange going around the asylum and getting different perspectives on how the Batman affected the criminals and each retelling their encounters with him but we don’t see strange until the very end of the series and this leads up to the movie
Also because the first one ended with Gotham flooded and it would be a shame not to take advantage of that environmental detail in the sequel. Killer Croc is the obvious choice in one sense, but a flooded Gotham would make an interesting setting for a Freeze storyline as well
I love the pitch. I also feel like an adaptation of "the long Halloween" would fit Pattinson's batman. imperfect detective skills, learning from his mistakes, etc.
I like this, but I would keep the monster men down to more body horror and slightly augmented abilities, but not meta human level. I don’t think it would be totally believable to go from thugs, conspiracies and criminal masterminds to mutant crocodiles and flying bat people. It still needs a little more progression. I think introducing Killer Croc and then bringing him back later as his mutation worsens into him becoming that oversized supervillain could work, but this one should def be more Cronenberg body horror
I like the killer croc idea, it kinda reminds me of the animated DCEU Batman movie that Damien is introduced in. Killer Croc has a tail and tells Batman it’s new (evolution).
Eh. This to me sounds like you're afraid of the batman being a comic-book. Metahumans aren't necessarily genre-breaking or even out of place; a gritty, dark universe still has plenty of room for monsters in it.
@@mosorireayewale2820 no I’m not scared of that by any means. I mean going to hard into it too fast would be a very jarring tonal shift too soon. This would serve as a great jumping off point to do the weirder stuff. If it was Batfleck, that’s a different story. He’s already at the level where I can see him and Bat Mite interacting
Technically, Killer Croc is a human with a skin disease. He could work since his origins is as an abused circus freak. Some stories, he did his own teeth. SImilar to another villian ( Great White Shark). Others, it was natural.
I think what you're missing about Mr. Freeze is that everyone wants him while the town is flooded, that he'd be more menacing with all the water to freeze and travel over
The only problem I see with this pitch becoming a reality is the extensive use of meta human characters. Which I believe Matt Reeves has said he doesn’t really plan on doing.
@@estudos6156 Same. I vastly prefer Batman working on his own (and/or with Gordon and Selina; I've never been big on Robin) in a stylized but grounded world over all the superhero team-ups and fantastical characters, and I strongly feel that none of those things would fit in the world that Reeves has created.
I think Freeze could also work for showing Robert Battinson's growth as a character. He moved on from being vengeance, learned from his fight with Riddler, and could portray that long term growth through a character like Freeze. Maybe Freeze is even inspired by Riddler and Batman has to prove to himself that he's different. Still think it'd be interesting but I love this pitch just as much!!
I really like this pitch! However this feels like one of those “one bad apple” stories if we don’t see the abuse being undertook by other doctors/orderlies/guards that is overlooked by the system of the asylum
The other workers in arkham could follow him maybe ManBat or White Bunny could be one of the only nice people who worked there and didnt follow him(so they didnt know how deep the experiments were)? But to not let them leave the job after having enough experience and have the possibility of them reporting him to autorities he make experiments(torture) on them and he makes the case they have to be institucionalized in Arkham and so they keep being experimented on until they become these superhumans. This would be their backstories they would already be ManBat and White Bunny in the movie we would discover this information with Batman detective work
Yup. We have to be shown throughout the movie (not just told by Bruce in the ending speech) that Strange is only able to operate the way he wants to because of the way the institution works and how it (and by extension society at large) views the patients. People who are sent to Arkham aren’t seen as people in crisis to be rehabilitated and empowered, they’re seen as sub-humans who need to be isolated from society and toward whom abuse is justified. Bruce isn’t just trying to oust corrupt leadership - he’s trying to change the *meaning* of Arkham.
I mean, if we're gonna steal from Arkham City, let's go all the way. Show Strange early in the movie replacing the security staff of Arkham with a private security firm: Tyger.
Maybe Strange has so much power in Arkham that he chooses the guards and cientists that will work closer to him. Perhaps by a psycological profile in wich he sees they will agree with his methods.
I think for the second film, hush would be the perfect antagonist. A childhood friend of Bruce who is intent on destroying him. It would also have the mystery element with bodies turning up with mauled faces in hush's plan to become Bruce.
With no studio interference, I trust Matt Reeves to write a script that’s just as thought out and grounded (at least in its storytelling) to pull another incredible movie off. Your pitch was just as solid. Can’t wait to see what they do moving forward! The Gotham they created has sooo much potential
@@JDoe-gf5oz you could say that about literally almost any movie. It wasn’t a carbon copy so much as it was Inspired by several movies including Seven. And Bruce Wayne’s growth in the film isn’t similar to anything in Seven.
@@punkrocker4life9674 Dude, I can't say that about many movies except ones that blatantly rip it off, like that Christopher Lambert one. The Riddler even gives himself up for no reason toward the end because that's what Kevin Spacey's character did.
I'm still really betting on the Court of Owls popping up sooner rather than later just because Reeves seems really into them, even if that doesn't happen next movie.
I like Court of owls, BUT I think it’s way too soon. For me I see this series being more like Harry Potter which was 8 installments. Court of owls should be more towards the end.
I originally had an idea for a two-pronged plot featuring both Zsasz and Hush. Zsasz is one of those villains whose appeared in films like Batman Begins and Birds of Prey and as a recurring role on the show Gotham, but I think he really could be the lead villain in a Se7en style drama, and I also pick Hush because I think he’s a great villain as well and it would be fun to see Batman grappling with two unrelated threats at the same time, especially when Hush is a villain who targets his Bruce Wayne side, and could even be tied into the Riddler like the comic. Plus, we could also possibly get a Red Dragon style scene in Arkham with the Joker. With a three hour run time, it wouldn’t be too difficult.
I really hope to see the likes of Professor Pyg, Hush, Firefly, Mad Hatter, Scarface, and Deathstroke in this new Batman era. Let’s get as dark as possible with Battinson’s world and give the spotlight to some lesser-known villains who haven’t reached the silver screen yet.
@@Connor-tr1dv I really want to see a fleshed out Zsasz where his inner psyche and the true horrific nature of his ideology is brought to light. It would especially work with Strange as the big bad.
I loved Hugo Strange in Gotham and I think he's brilliant in your pitch! It opens the possibility for so many more villains to come into the movies as Strange loves experimenting on people and mutating them, like in gotham. 10/10 pitch
The bit in 'The Batman' about Martha Wayne having been a former patient at Arkham is taken from the 2012 graphic novel "Batman: Earth One" volume 1. In that story, and I think in this most recent movie, her maiden name was Martha Arkham - in other adaptations before marrying Thomas she is Martha Kane.
I do love the idea of it being about Bruce learning about the system of Arkham being broken and not vilifying mental illnesses I would also just add that the animated series villain Lockup did exactly the same thing as this pitch and would recommend rewatching that episode if you haven’t already.
In the batman with Robert Pattinson, its my understanding that Arkham used its status as a mental institution to hide how it was housing political prisoners
@@fjshark6173 I agree but he’s a little on the older side, which isn’t the worst thing in the world but id imagine Hugo being played by someone that is probably in there 50s or 60s, around there. Maybe late 40s at the earliest if they look old enough.
They need to show the process of rebuilding Gotham. Bruce Wayne should use his wealth and influence to raise money for the rebuilding project. I would expect the Bruce Wayne persona to be more developed. Maybe the story can revolve around Bruce meeting with other wealthy and influential families in Gotham. Then they can introduce the Court of Owls. In the power vacuum that was created with the death of Falcone, other people are scrambling to take control of Gotham. This includes some wealthy families who are part of a secret society. I hope they show Bruce becoming more social and using his charm and wealth to bring people together to clean up Gotham.
This is what the first film sets up, a Bruce Wayne that helps the city with his money opposed to how obsessed he was with using batman's violence to help the place
Pattinson definitely has the range to pull this off, if you haven’t seen Tenet I highly recommend it, and he shows a smoother more charming side in that movie (also Harry Potter he’s pretty charming Ig). But the court of owls thing, while I agree that is should be set up early, I think it would be cooler in a way that none of us would be able to tell until the court of owls is actually unveiled.
@@svofoy_tre It would be cool if the movie was influenced by Stanley Kubrick's style. Like Eyes Wide Shut, but set in Gotham, and throw in some action scenes.
Also, consider how they’re doing a Penguin TV series. Would be a very interesting way to see how Oswald met Carmine Falcone. Heck, they could even introduce his children Alberto, Mario and Sofia. But also, on the sequel side of things, I can see Bruce trying to bring in more proper police to serve and protect, therefore one of them happens to be Harvey Bullock. I’m still surprised this day that we haven’t seen a film with Bullock in it.
A fresher villain that allows Bruce to contrast himself from the snobby rich people of Gotham while still.being grounded in reality. The Penguin could work but I'd go with Hush. You could have flashbacks with them being bratty little rich kids to show how they became so different and stuff.
They could make an insanely gritty and dark batman 2, for example manbat could be an amalgamation of human skin in the form of a bat, not even a failed experiment but surgically modified. Some body horror potential there. They could also have another side villain like killer croc, but completely reimagine him and make him more humanoid and have him be cannibalistic, all these characters could have origins in Arkham leading Him to strange and strange could be modifying them to fit their inner persona and darkness.
I think Nicholas Cage would be a great Harvey Dent, but this story line could also possibly explain why the Joker had so much bruises and scars in that deleted scene. While not being a villain, it would still be really cool. Edit: I also think it would be cool if the designs of the creatures Hugo made were based off the Sloth victim from Se7en, since the first one was inspired by Se7en. Just that look of starvation would be very interesting to see.
This is my similar pitch: I’d love to see an “antihero”/“sympathetic villain” Hugo Strange. He finds out who Batman is and instead of trying to supersede him he tries to “fix” him. He manipulates mentally ill patients into fighting Batman; each villain he manipulates represents a different damaged facade of Batman’s psyche. At some point Batman realises what is going on, and further realises that it is making him a better person and crime fighter. Now he has to decide whether or not that’s a price he’s willing to pay. Ngl I clearly don’t have 40 minutes of content here but I love the whole “Mad Scientist” Hugo Strange. I honestly find early Strange to be a bit dull and his Arkham/Batman connections to be his best asset.
This was an awesome pitch i absolutely love the scene you described of Hugo strange and Batman’s first meeting I can literally imagine Giancarlo Esposito as the arrogant Professor strange boasting how he figured out Bruce is Batman and how he set up a prison transport escape with Gordon it sounds awesome. The idea of Hugo strange playing a psychotic game of chess with Batman would be awesome to see.
I might be in the minority but I don't think this is the story/direction they should go into. Because of how they ended the last story, I believe they are setting up a folded version of the comic "NO man's Land" where instead of a flood an earthquake hits gotham and completely separates many places in Gotham from the GCPD and the bat Family. What then happens is that certain villains come out the woodwork to establish control, rebuild their plot of gotham in their own image and just take over without the oversight of the Bat Family. Especially with just how many villains they can pull from this makes a lot more sense than to just throw away the world state they are currently in for a Arkham specific story. I still want Hugo as a villian, maybe even the villian pulling strings, but at least have it in their world state
I agree, and I think a second movie with Freeze as the main antagonist, and other villains like Penguin, and Black Mask as secondary antagonists could be very compelling. The city is flooded and much like Katrina that is something that will take a long time. You could have Bruce use his resources to help rebuild the city. I also think to “ground” Mr. Freeze you could have him suffer from a psychosomatic disorder that makes him believe he needs a cold suit to stay a live, since this is a mental issue Bruce decides to invest in Arkham to help him, and use his resources to help Nora. I think that sets everything up for this video to be the third movie, and it still leaves room for Batman to deal with the power grab that is currently going on in Gotham.
I definitely have been thinking over it for a couple of months. A story where Dr. Hugo Strange, an orbital outsider of the Gotham elite while still being the CEO of Arkham Asylum; uses his hidden genetic experiments combined with hypnosis to create at first a Grendel from Beowulf type creature to hunt Gotham's elite before using stolen knowledge from a captured Dr. Langstrum and uses his own methods on him to create Man Bat at night. Langstrum is awake and active in the day but only with vague waking nightmares of his hidden activities. Bruce has to deduce not only who's man bat but also whose orchestrating the murders leading to a showdown with an enhanced Strange in the bowels of Arkham
Bruce Wayne rebuilding Gotham should be part of the sequel, but that the company hired to rebuild Is deeply corrupt in some way. It could tie into Arkham also. Every great pulp detective should have two cases they’re working on that turn out to be related.
I love the idea of making a Batman movie where we take a hard look at the manipulative nature of the mental health system. I think it needs addressed even if not this way.
After his performance in in Oppenheimer , Josh Hartnett would be the perfect Harvey Dent laying the ground work for his unstableness in the future as two face but just Harvey dent for now. Also save Giancarlo for Mr.Freeze and use Batista as Hugo strange!
I think an interesting idea I don’t see explored much is a Hugo Strange/Clayface movie. One where Clayface’s origin is has Strange mixed in with it. Clayface is an actor of course looking for a way to look younger again, and I think you can probably have him go to Strange for help and have Clayface be one of Strange’s failed (or maybe even deliberate) experiments.
This is very interesting, can you elaborate more on how you would see this playing out? I like clay face and I think his story in the Batman animated series is very compelling but I haven’t been able to workout an idea for how he could be introduced in this universe, so I’m curious as to what yours is.
How about Clayface and Poison Ivy? Considering how both use beauty products (Matt Hagen Clayface uses beauty cream to cover his deformed face and Pamela Isley uses lipstick), I can see a film when it takes a darker take on these things. In fact, I wrote a pitch for what Clayface and Poison Ivy can do in a sequel. It's down here in the comments if you want to check it out.
Martha was also an Arkham in the Telltale video games, they're exclusively story based, no actions besides pressing a couple of buttons and being able to walk around environments for clues and whatnot, so very welcoming to ppl who don't play video games and the stories are some of the best batman stories I've encountered personally, highly recommend
Would make sense in universe to have a young, newly qualified Strange be the psychologist of Martha Wayne so that he can come into the Batman story at middle age with crucial information about Batman that he doesn't know he has yet.
This is very similar to my pitch except I had Hugo Strange pick different villains in an effort to "mock" Batman for a decon-recon switch. 1) Blockbuster: A superior physique to showcase how Batman paled compared to an augmented meta-humans. 2) Magpie: A woman with duel personalities with one being a dark rooftop battler to insult Batman's duel identities. 3) Firebug: Rebranded as a hardened military man who uses fire-weapons to belittle Batman's discipline. 4) Electrocutioner: A spectacle show-boater to demean Batman's flair for the theatrics in his war on crime.
A part of me really wants them to wait for a 4th movie for two-face as I feel like having two movies of Bruce and Harvey’s relationship would make the two-face stuff that much more powerful and meaningful and would provide for an interesting battle of Bruce having to fight someone who his close friend
Totally agree. I think the Dark Knight Trilogy had decent pacing for the most part but I was not in love with how quickly they turned dent into two-face. I understand why they did it, but Reeves’ version of the Batman seems to be more of a passion project, so I think he would be willing to be more patient in having Dent turn. Also Harvey Dent is a cool character in his own right and could contribute a lot to the story.
I like Hugo Strange & Arkham Assylum being at the center of this storyline. Lots of interesting side characters & plot lines can come from this foundation.
But I’d also love to see Brian Cranston as Mr. Freeze. Just watch the interrogation scene from Godzilla (2014) and imagine that it’s Victor Friez talking to GCPD about him trespassing on GothCorp. And this is unrelated, but I’d love to see Bill Burr play Killer Moth in a James Gunn project
YES! I think if Giancarlo plays Hugo then Cranston should play Freeze, and I love the bill burr casting for Killer Moth. I think comedians in serious roles works, and I think it also adds the level of comedy that the previous Batman had, where it wasn’t “bust a gut” but there were some moments that made me laugh. So having someone like Bill Burr who is naturally funny will have that same affect I would think.
i think one of the best things to do is to explore the relation ship between harvey and bruce in such a way that bruce sees harvy and is reminded of his dad he is the hero he could never be
If Matt Reeves and team were to do this exact pitch and put their artisan touch on all of it, it might go down as the best Batman media ever released. Amazing pitch, Nando
Awesome! I had a very similar idea. I would only add and change a couple of things here: 1) A scene in addition to Strange watching Bruce brush off the question about a cell for Batman in which Strange is interviewing Nashton (perhaps in the past) and makes the connection that Bruce wasn't there to open the letter even though he never went anywhere as far as anyone knew and it adds to his suspicion that Bruce Wayne is (the) Batman. 2) I would add small comic booky details to Langstrom's story to flesh it out: Langstrom was trying to cure deafness inspired by his deaf niece - just to make it more personal. It backfires, he is shown to have created a version of the Man-Bat formula and turns partially into a bat-creature. He is found by Strange or his hench-men and taken to the Arkham Hospital. His identity comes clear to Strange when he is reported missing by his wife Francine and/or his sister. Langstrom is treated at Arkham and perhaps is already showing signs of reverting back to his human form, but Strange has gotten a hold of his formula and plays with it more to turn Langstrom into Man-Bat proper, after which Strange sets him loose. You could say that Strange has had ideas similar to this with his man-beast fantasies but never came this close in his efforts until Langstrom inadvertently provided him the spark he needed. And Strange can keep playing dumb and say it was all Langstrom's own doing and that the serum must have been affecting him further unbeknownst to him / them. 3) Croc and Pyg are great options, they work fine in this pitch. I have a small problem with White Rabbit - her cloning ability is a bit too much for me even compared to the Man-Bat serum. I would suggest a different approach. Have the movie start off with Batman dealing with the rising criminal elements of the city (either under the rule of Oz / the Penguin or as his rivals). Have one of them be a small-time crime boss bordering on budding cult leader called Arnold Wesker, the Ventriloquist, who is either crazy or very charismatic and has managed to make his henchmen (who are also either crazy, in it for the money or legitimately scared of Wesker and his intentions) believe the puppet Scarface is alive and in control. He could be locked up into Arkham and later on be set free by Strange who compares the Wesker-Scarface relationship to Bruce-Batman (there's the fear as a weapon aspect and the dual personality aspect). That way you also get a sense of where the criminal life of Gotham is after Falcone's death. 4) Just for fun. I saw an opportunity for snarky BTAS-type Alfred moment in your pitch. Bruce (after first meeting Strange): "I don't trust the doctor." Alfred: "What makes you say that?" Bruce: "I don't know. There's just something off about him. There's something --" Alfred: "Strange?" Bruce: -.- What do you think?
Totally Agree, and I saw someone else earlier say that the ventriloquist should replace white rabbit and I couldn’t agree more. I think the ventriloquist is a perfect character for that role and fits well within the universe that has already been established. Excellent ideas!
I like Ventriloquist but what I first thought was Mad Hatter. I think it fits better with the aspects of Batman and Hugo's analysis of Batman. Mad Hatter is convinced he is something he is not and it hints at Hugo's seeing Bruce as a crazy person trying to get away from his true identity. Either could work but I've been dying for Mad Hatter to get put in a movie
This is a fantastic idea for the over arching themes and a perfect way to highlight Batman’s strength of will, intellect, and integrity with great introduction of new characters
I love the animal motifs with each of the patients you chose. It could really serve to convey the message that Strange sees the patients of Arkham as nothing more than animals.
Just for all interested, Bruce's mother has always been from one of the other big families of Gotham. Normally, she's a Kane. This movie actually isn't the first time she's been an Arkham either; she was an Arkham in the Batman: Earth One series, and had a pretty similar issue that befell her there. Reeves pulled a lot from Earth One, Zero Year, Long Halloween, and a little from Year One for his version of Batman.
Freeze would fit in the sense that they're both men caught in their pasts. Freeze trying to change it with Bruce attempting to ensure no one else endures that past again.
Haven't watched the video yet, but if they want to keep going in the detective movie route they could use Calendar Man as the main villian and have it take place through the year as Batman howns his skills as a detective while working with the GCPD. Probably could have Bruce Willace as Calendar man or Paul Giamatti.
I think it would be too similar to having the Riddler as a villain. I love the movie. But some people complained about it being too slow. So perhaps we could have a villain who is more of a physical match for Batman.
A few years ago I scribbled out my version of how a “Batman Cinematic Universe” could work. One of the movies had strange as the primary villain w manbat as his creation. Glad to see someone shares a similar vision
Cool pitch as always, but I don't think it manages to escape the "how to write a Batman villain without leaning on mental illness" problem. Strange is obsessed with Batman, and his plan to study Bruce a while instead of killing him is what leads to his downfall--maybe there's a way to spin that as arrogance or hubris, but as is this feels like a story about how the mentally ill are being exploited by an EVIL mentally ill person.
I think if the movie shows how the entirety of the Arkham Asylum is corrupt and not just strange it stops it from being just “mentally-ill=bad” and more of corruption that Batman has to take down as both Bruce and the dark knight. Ya feel me ?
@@svofoy_tre I mean, I think this draft already shows that. Strange isn't the sole reason Arkham is corrupt, he's taking a system that was already corrupt and using it for his own ends. That's all fine. My point is it's a bit weird that that this is a story that actively takes steps to distance itself from the "insane supervillain" trope, but the primary antagonist is still a mad scientist with an unhealthy obsession with Batman. No amount of framing Strange as "one part of a larger problem" is going to fix that issue.
@@nathanl8622 interesting. I think I get what you’re saying but I’m not entirely sure. So is your issue that his reasoning isn’t compelling enough and that’s why he’s written off as “insane”? Because I think every supervillain is “insane” to some degree. Like Thanos for instance, he was trying to prevent a Malthusian catastrophe at a universal level and (spoilers for The Eternals) prevent the birth of more eternals, but he killed half of the population to do that which is pretty insane.
@@svofoy_tre Yeah I feel like Strange leans a little too much on the Batman obsession to be considered "mentally well" (and tbf rewatching the video Nando does acknowledge that). I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to have villains who are bit "insane" (if nothing else being a villain requires having a skewed or absent sense of morality) but for this pitch in particular I'd say that's important. And there are ways to write a "sane" supervillain. Killmonger is perfectly rational, his ideals just clash with the heroes. The Penguin is (depending on the version, at least) just a very dangerous crook. Or at least have a villain that isn't specifically undone because of their eccentricities--this Strange could've won if he were pragmatic and killed Batman when he had the chance, but he wanted to study him instead and that gave Batman the room he needed to pull out the win.
I think it would have been fun to get like a knight fall story going on. Think about it, the crazies see riddler dressed in a costume and got famous, so they decide to kite man, crazy quilt, so and so. Bruce takes them all out one by one, then Hugo releases them all in one knight, every single patient. Big final fight, joker gets out BAM
i love your pitch! the blending of supernatural elements need to be explored more and i feel that you using man bat to begin batmans struggle between his identities is exactly how i think it should go. I also think that you should look into killer moth as a possible villain, should wb contact you for batman 3 ;)
Freeze is my number 1 pick but I did think Hugo would be better as an antagonist working in the shadows and pulling the strings throughout a whole trilogy have Hugo having a patient interview with Riddler at the end of the second movie. I would love to see the Court of Owls, Calendar man, Hush, Clayface, Mad hatter and Scarecrow in this universe before we get another Joker plot
I feel like this is way too much fantastical way too soon. Rearrange the characters used, and I could see it. Mr. Pyg, surely. Fits right with the tone. Killer Croc as an actual shape-changing monster? Man-Bat? Those are movie 4 villains. The MCU took its time to get us acclimated to the fantasy elements. Considering where it started, it needed it. Same goes for The Batman. Your explanation behind Mr. Freeze only convinced me that’s the better choice. Hugo Strange’s gimmick is creating monster-creatures from patients. That feels like we need an interstitial story that blends those two versions of reality together. He COULD be the second movie’s villain. But with meta-humans? Not really. I’m not even opposed to them being introduced, but the leap from the first movie to this one is just enormous, way more than I think most comic book fans realize. The Batman is NOT that kind of movie. A Robin? I can see it. A woman who can create an immediate clone of herself? I can’t. Thematically, this pitch is perfect. The use of Arkham is great. I just feel like it needs to tone down the fantastic. Which, if that’s the case, I don’t know. I feel like a Batman villain deserves their full arsenal. But I do think Hugo Strange as a cruel, manipulative psychiatrist could just work on its own, realistic. So I’m conflicted.
I think for the second film we could introduce Mr. Freeze. Freeze is the perfect mix between grounded and fantastical as he has not real powers and uses science and technology to become a threat. Freeze also is different from riddler in the sense that he is not selfish but wants to save his wife, which is a valuable lesson to Batman who has realized that he needs to help people. I think for this grounded universe Freeze would not literally have a sub-zero suit, but rather a suit that is extremely cold to “regulate his temperature” but is all apart of a psychosomatic disorder that is helping him cope with his wife’s current condition. Since a psychosomatic disorder is a mental issue, by the end of the movie you can have Bruce use his resources at Wayne Enterprises to save Nora, and use his personal resources to invest in Arkham and help save/rehabilitate Mr. Freeze. That sets everything up for this pitch to be the third movie and now the leap from ultra realism to surrealism is not as drastic. Maybe you could push this pitch to the fourth installment but I haven’t thought of what should be the the third yet if that’s the case 🤷🏾♂️.
I love the idea of Hugo Strange being The Batman 2’s villain, he’s a perfect fit and deserves a big-screen adaptation. However, one plot-hole I can point out in this video is this: how would Bruce have no tangible evidence that Hugo is behind the plot if he has his eye-contact cameras? Perhaps some sort of electrical interference in the room? Then how would he know?
It is possible because we are getting an Arkham series we will probably see Hugo strange in that series an it will transition the sequel with him as the villain but for me personally I would like to see killer croc black mask and mister freeze
I would love to see a manbat created by Hugo in this universe, the noir setting can be combined very well with even a little bit of horror with a realistic mutant Frankenstein esc manbat.
I always get angry that these pitches and ideas never get implemented onto the big screen. Would definitely watch it, however I don't know if these villains would fit into the highly ground world.
I think they could maybe not White Rabbit, but man bat has a scientific background, and killer croc can be explained through science. I think looking at what Reeves did with Planet of the apes and how marvel used “science” to bridge the gap between real-life and fantasy, those two characters can be justified. I have no clue how you can explain someone with the power create a clone without it seeming “off-brand”. Maybe you could tweak it as she cloned herself, so it’s not really a power and more of and experiment, but I think that kinda takes away from the character so I’d just say replace her.
The only thing I would add is that clayface would make a great addition to the monster mash in place of white rabbit. He could make copies of himself, strange, the other monsters, Bruce's parents, even Bruce himself
I feel like with this second one our frontrunners are probably Hush, The ventriloquist and the penguin. All 3 are characters i could picture fitting into the universe besides penguin bc hes already in the universe lol. I have a feeling it could be hush or hush and someone bc its pretty much already confirmed without it being said he exists in the world
#1) Reeves has voiced his interest in Adapting Freeze next #2) Freeze’s revenge quest would in fact be a perfect foil for a Batman who is just learning to leave Vengeance behind. Think Black Panther in Civil War
I could see your “symbol of hope” theme work for Clayface as well. An actor that used to be a fan favorite that has been down on his luck and forgotten. I also think that The Batman 2 should double down on the detective skills of Batman with a villain who can change his looks.
For me Killer Croc would be great with Gotham being flooded. You can even use Hugo Strange in a similar way. He mutates Croc further. In the end you can even vist the circus Croc came from, and it's Haley's circus. The last scene is the annoucer pointing to the trapeze
You made such an excellent case for Mr. Freeze, I was a bit skeptical of the Hugo Strange villain pitch (as cool as all of the legacy perks, and firsts are). But when you hit me with ManBat. TAKE MY MONEY.
Though it's pretty unlikely, I would still absolutely love to see professor pyg on the big screen to continue down the darker tone and more realistic darker and violent world that was started with the first new Batman movie. The inspirations that they pulled from seven being doubled down on and exploring the darkest parts of a deranged monster vs a Batman trying to be a beacon of hope while the city is gripped by fear would just be a sight to behold. At least to me, but I'd just be happy to see the world built on.
I had a very similar idea for Hugo Strange for a hypothetical new DCEU reboot. I guess it just figures that others could also see Strange making monsters who are not the monster men. Also, about why people seem to want Freeze for The Batman 2: maybe it has to do with the fact that Reeves has openly said that he wants to use Freeze?
The Man Bat element is what makes this pitch so dope. Batman is having trouble being 2 different personas when he is haunted by a creature who has no ability to control which persona he can be. Poetry.
And he’s a bat!
It’s like poetry, they rhyme.
This doesn’t work for Reeves’s Batman. He doesn’t have the fantasy element.
@@makeouthill4822 yet and we possibly saw Batman use venom
@@BlueCheeseLucci yeah in some reference/concept art&images it’s called “adrenaline” but adrenaline doesn’t normally have that hue so it’s like that it’s a Wayne R&D formula still in its infancy stage. So to make a long story short, yeah I think it’s venom too 😭.
I think one other reason why Freeze would be cool is simply because you could have the film set during winter and have another opening monologue by Batman except it's christmas eve instead of halloween. And then the poster could be blue instead of red. In other words the *aesthetics*
Maybe do a live-action Long Halloween but I would love to see aLA Death of the family/Under the Red Hood Film.
Yes, Victor has done a lot of bad things in the name of love, but he’s the kind of baddie who a lot of people would do the exact same thing he did for Nora in his situation.
I’m pretty torn on this pitch. I think Hugo Strange is perfect for a storyline about Arkham, which seems right on time in this version of Batman’s story. However, I think Strange making monsters like ManBat feels very off in Reeves’s world. Moreover, I think the jump to Bruce no longer being a recluse, while being a logical jump to make from the previous film, is an arc that should be seen and not told. The process of him becoming a public figure like his father, his first press conference in years, these are things that should be big moments in a film, not happening between them.
I agree. I think that this pitch is perfect for a third film and that the second film should highlight Bruce’s effort and progress to develop that persona. I think a storyline with Mr. Freeze could work for the second movie as Freeze not only dabbles with the idea of losing someone he loves (Bruce’s only fear i.e. almost losing Alfred) but also you can ground the idea of him needing a sub-zero suit to that being apart of a psychosomatic disorder that’s helping him cope with what has happened to Nora. This lays the foundation for Batman to truly build on what has been established in the first film, as someone who is here to help, by having him save Nora (perhaps tapping into the resources Bruce has at Wayne Enterprises) and also by having him save/rehabilitate freeze (since the psychosomatic disorder is a mental dilemma that can be treated at Arkham pushing Bruce to use his resources to invest in Arkham to “help” freeze) this lays the ground work for this pitch to be the third film. Also be having Freeze in the second film it progress how far Reeves can go into the supernatural, by establishing that “unrealistic” things can happen as long as they have a realistic and scientific basis. So a failed experiment that turns a man into a bat is now a little more “grounded”.
I couldn't agree more with you.
Fully agreed. While Reeves's take on things is definitely a lot more stylized than Nolan's, it's still very grounded in reality for the most part, perhaps even more so thus far when certain aspects are taken into account. Introducing literal man-made monsters into this stylized but realistic world would cause a severe case of tonal whiplash not only for me, but for many others who also loved The Batman. That's not to say Hugo Strange couldn't work in a sequel; he absolutely could. But not if he's some mad scientist whose experiments result in creatures that are completely at odds with the gritty world Reeves has created, not to mention that I doubt Pattinson would be down with going in such a radically different direction either. IIRC one of the biggest reasons he accepted the role was that he was promised it would remain grounded and taken seriously without veering too far off into a fantastical direction.
I think a cool way for Hugo's monsters to work (including ManBat and Killer Crock) is if they're not actually monsters, but Hugo kinda pulled off a Rhino and they're actually trapped in some animal suits. Like, they're suits that are pretty much sewn in their skin. It'd be horrible, grotesque and it kinda fits in Reeves' world since it's grounded in reality
Okay hear me out, how about we have Giancarlo Esposito as Mr. Freeze and Bryan Cranston as Hugo Strange
I’ve always loved the idea of Hugo introducing or making the monster characters like Croc and Man Bat and Clayface.
I think having Grundy connect to Strange could be pretty great as well.
@@Im_Just_Dan yes
Croc was born with a skin disease, he wasn’t created as a monster or anything
@@bearpoop720 So?
@@bearpoop720and why exactly can't you incorporate that, just say strange lied and said he'd cure him
The potential for Scarecrow has already been teased within this new batman universe with psychedelic drugs such as “Drops” being common place in the universe.
It’s totally possible that Crane is at Arkham Asylum right now.
They also teased Hush many times during the movie
Idk, I feel like they did Scarecrow for Batman begins just like that
Drop some of the Arkham Asylum nightmares into it and have Crane as a background villain in the movie
Bane and Hushed was teased too
Nolan completely wasted and misused Scarecrow. Jon Crane can be a terrifying psychological foe for Bruce Wayne and I hope Reeves uses him.
I think having man-bat would be a great catalyst for batman's refined winged suit. He could see the way man-bat flies. He could also see how he has issue with fighting man-bat in there first encounter which inspires him to make the definitive cape glider we all know and love.
Love that so much
A heavy humanoid cannot fly with wings like manbats.
@@Cons-Cat shut up nerd its a superhero movie
@@livesakimbo Its supposed to be a largely plausible crime thriller.
@@Cons-Cat perhaps man bat will ‘glide’ instead
Mr Freeze's theme isn't revenge.
It's the fear of loosing your loved ones.
Which is the only thing Batman said he fears in the previous movie...
The more I watch this video… I’m starting to think that Nando doesn’t REALLY understand characters from Batmans lore… like Mr. Freeze
Also, @Dimitris Gel … you are right!
Yes what you just said is the basis of Mr. Freeze. His desperation to save Nora and his willingness to do whatever it takes to do it is the fear of losing loved ones. And this, like you said, is the perfect pitch to target in the sequel. Two men torn in their ideals due to their fears: one who stops crime without resorting to killing and the other who kills to get what he wants to save his wife. Two opposites dealing with similar ideals or similar threats. Perhaps adding a second villain here who is making this difficult for Freeze can work to make both Batman and Freeze go toe to toe with one another. Not necessarily Penguin but maybe a crime lord challenging Penguin like Black Mask or maybe an unknown like Great White Shark (introducing his eventually physical appearance change because of Freeze) or anyone from the rogues gallery that has not been done yet who can be written to challenge Freeze and make it hard for him to save Nora. There are many avenues to go with this that is not revenge centered.
Freeze is too early anyways
@@swedlepop7092 Nah, it's not, it's perfect.
@@bobbyybouchee he could be a big villain against a more experienced Batman is what I think
I really need a movie where Clayface is a Hugo Strange Monster, because it would justify Clayface’s origin a lot better than his traditional origin, and it would allow us to have him in an otherwise grounded movie. Plus, a man who can shapeshift is an amazing antagonist for a detective story.
I love the addict story, it's heartbreaking in the animated series.
@@jacobsims8307perhaps they could do a story where strange, knowing human psychology, is the one who causes the addiction and then in turn, creating a monster man
@@jacobsims8307 agreed
This arc would fit in well with Hugo Strange being a former employee at Wayne enterprises doing research that could help people, but loses funding due to Bruce spending time as Batman
Yeah and they already confirmed clayface for the sequel I’m pretty sure so it would fit
6:40 Freeze is not just about vengence. There's the whole drama of him trying to save his wife at all cost, which already makes him different from Riddler, who is selfish and crimes were result of his desire for attention. The fact he does all this evil just to save the woman loves could work as great test to Batman development, with him discovering about Nora and in the end defeating Freeze not by punching him but rather by saving his wife (maybe with the help of scientists of Wayne enterprise), showing how he grow into a hero who actually helps people in need, including his enemies.
This. And also it's right in batman development from being vengeance then turning into justice in the first movie, and in the second one, using his empathy to fight a man trying to save his wife (his remaining humanity)
@@anthonydrew9925 Exactly, plus, to find cure for Freeze wife Bruce would have to use the resources of his company, which could be oportunity to introduce characters like Lucius Fox and Leslie Thompkins, showing Bruce finding new allies and unsing his company to help people in the city.
@@SatchitBhogle Yes. Freeze also works as representation of Batman fear of loss. Just like the hero, he is trying save the woman he loves even if means putting others in danger. Batman has similar problem as he usually pushes people away not wanting o put them in danger or lose them like he lost his parents. They both use a dark emotionally detach persona to hide their isecurites and fear of losing those close to them.
I also think for this “grounded” universe, instead of freeze actually needing a sub-zero suit to stay alive he needs the suit to help cope with what happened to his wife (psychosomatic disorder) mentally he is so traumatized that the only way for him to cope is to make that suit, because of this, by the end of the movie Bruce decides that he needs to invest in Arkham and that sets everything up for this video to be the third movie.
I ❤️ that idea way better than Nandos!
The Martha Wayne / Arkham point is so interesting in the context of the flashpoint story where she becomes the Joker. If you have her being prone to manic episodes in the main storyline, then that turn becomes that much more believable. I’d also love to see an Arkham that (at least on the surface) is actively trying to help normal peoples mental health - but that under the surface they’re treating everyone as they’d treat the criminally insane.
What I love about including Harvey Dent in all this is that everyone watching will be on edge every time he is on screen, just because they know who is he is going to eventually be. I do agree, building up the relationship between Dent and Wayne early on will make the fall from grace hurt even more.
Exactly, reminds me of something I've heard said about Dr Octavius in Spiderman PS4, everyone knows he's going to be a bad guy, the game can't make that a shocking twist, so instead they make him so endearing that you dread his inevitable turn.
The Telltale game did something similar with The Joker and it was one of my favourite Batman adaptations ever
I really would rather they didn’t add Dent. Just give us a new villain that hasn’t been already used.
I love this idea too. I would introduce Harvey in the 2nd movie and turn him to Two Face in the 3rd or 4th movie assuming they do 5, which is what I hope for
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy I think they’re only doing 3 (from what everyone says) but it’d be so hard to develop a ton of characters that everyone wants. I don’t know how they’re going to pull that off (personal I want ivy, harley, robin, killer moth, etc).
Can’t lie, I disagree with Freeze, it can bring out an emotion of empathy in Bruce and can teach him that his villains also have a struggle and a story, and can be an emotional ride for him.
id personally say *this* sounds like a movie 3. exploring arkham is more impactful if we have another movies worth of villains in there, and while i hadnt heard the mr freeze mini pitch before now i really agreed with all the reasons you gave for why people want it. if the only holdup is the theme not matching, shift it a little. turn mr freeze away from revenge and towards “wanting to save his wife” and it can like up w where bruce is as trying to help people
Nice.
I agree, and I see this series of movies being longer than a trilogy, only question I have is where would this take Bruce as a character? What type of arc would we see from this, and what would that set up for future films?
Okay so I did some thinking and I think you could spin it as Freeze is so disheveled by the loss of his wife (or rather her current state) that he suffers from psychosomatic symptom disorder and believes he must stay cold to stay alive. In addition to that he goes on his regular “revenge/save wifey” escapade until he is stopped by Batman. By the end of the movie Bruce makes the connection that Arkham is a part of his mothers legacy and Freeze could be rehabilitated and saved through Arkham so he decides to invest in Arkham. That sets everything up perfectly for this movie to be the third installment. Lmk what you think.
@@svofoy_tre I have been saying this since I saw The Batman, it should be more than a trilogy, ideally 4 movies maybe 5. They could easily pull it off if they keep the steam from the first outing. They need to do the court either 4th or 5th and Joker probably 3rd or 4th. Two Face in 3rd or 4th. I think Freeze, Ivy, Scarecrow, Ras, Bane, Strange, Black Mask, and Hush all could work too
@@Captain_Insano_nomercy I was thinking more along the line of Harry Potter and have it be like 8 parts. I know that’s a lot but Reeves and Pattinson genuinely seem to love the character so I think it’s doable. Plus it allows for a lot of the rogues to be on screen without having to jam them in there.
I feel like another lesson Bruce should take from the confrontation is that everyone is in need of help, support, and saving. Not just the average citizens, but the worst of his rogues, especially. That’s one thing I live about Batman is that once he grows to become THE BATMAN, he is just as motivated to save the villains as he is their victims. He sees them as sick, lost, or in pain.
“Even after everything you’ve done, I still would have saved you.”
One of my favorite episodes of Batman The Animated Series (Old Wounds), Batman gives a henchman a second chance at life by hiring him to work security at Wayne Enterprises so that he can support his family.
It would tie in to Bruce’s efforts to rebuild Arkham to be a better care facility for Batman to show a similar goal for saving others and giving them second chances.
I still wanna see Scarecrow now because Batman said how he had mastered fear, and I’d love to see that idea challenged and get some genuinely scary superhero horror
What would make for a fearful batman? Making friends as Bruce Wayne? Then knowing they could be in danger trying to help Gotham?
I feel like the problem with this pitch is that it fails as a mystery.
We immediately know the man behind everything is Strange. Where's the noir angle? The dark secrets?
Also, the way you characterize Strange, he comes off as a moustache twirling villain instead of a man who genuinely believes Bruce is """sick""" and needs help, which makes the conflict far less interesting.
I think that's the point of Hugo Strange though. He can genuinely believe that someone is mentally sick but never want them to get help. He sees the patients basically as a freak show, with the added benefit of getting them to do his bidding
This pitch is GREAT. You're always so thoughtful about themes and characterization. Also, please consider making a Casting The Batman's Remaining Rogues video! My wife and I always lose our minds about your casting videos, and Giancarlo Esposito as Hugo Strange is positively inspired. We would love to see who you'd come up with for Poison Ivy, Mr. Freeze, Two-Face, Mad Hatter, Ventriloquist, Scarecrow, etc. as well as who you're imagining for Professor Pyg and White Rabbit!
some possible starting points for each character:
Rebecca Ferguson, Margaret Qualley, or Evan Rachel Wood as Poison Ivy
Stanley Tucci or Jeremy Strong as Mr. Freeze
David Oyelowo, Steven Yeun, or Ryan Gosling as Two-Face
Domnhall Gleeson or Richard Ayoade as Mad Hatter
Michael Stuhlbarg or Richard Jenkins as Ventriloquist
Lakeith Stanfield or Timothy Simons as Scarecrow
Erin Moriarty as White Rabbit
Tim Heidecker as Professor Pyg
I also watch them with my girlfriend. It´s so fun. Yeah I would love to see that video.
@@pondoflillies Jeremy Strong as Freeze is something I didn't know I needed till now. You're a genius
Honestly as someone who rates Giancalro Esposito as one of their favourite actors I don’t want him playing a character like Hugo Strange. He’s already been typecast as the calm and ruthless villain in a suit many times since Breaking Bad, I’d rather have him play a different kind of role if he was to star in a comic book movie.
@@mrbluesky4838 Anyone specific in mind? The man definitely has range. My favorite Esposito performance is as Buggin' Out in Do the Right Thing--very much the opposite of "calm" and "ruthless."
Me having giancarlo esposito in my head when you said, “I can never forget Martha Wayne, neither can you, Bruce”, gave me chills, this is actually not a bad pitch but for the Arkham series I could see strange going around the asylum and getting different perspectives on how the Batman affected the criminals and each retelling their encounters with him but we don’t see strange until the very end of the series and this leads up to the movie
I think most people suggest Freeze because Matt Reeves said in an interview that Freeze was a villain he wanted to tackle in his Batman franchise
Also because the first one ended with Gotham flooded and it would be a shame not to take advantage of that environmental detail in the sequel. Killer Croc is the obvious choice in one sense, but a flooded Gotham would make an interesting setting for a Freeze storyline as well
I love the pitch. I also feel like an adaptation of "the long Halloween" would fit Pattinson's batman. imperfect detective skills, learning from his mistakes, etc.
Absolutely
They kinda already did it
@@st8vie282 True. I'd be intrigued to see Matt Reeves' spin on it. I think Pattinson is the perfect version to do it on the live screen.
I like this, but I would keep the monster men down to more body horror and slightly augmented abilities, but not meta human level. I don’t think it would be totally believable to go from thugs, conspiracies and criminal masterminds to mutant crocodiles and flying bat people. It still needs a little more progression. I think introducing Killer Croc and then bringing him back later as his mutation worsens into him becoming that oversized supervillain could work, but this one should def be more Cronenberg body horror
I like the killer croc idea, it kinda reminds me of the animated DCEU Batman movie that Damien is introduced in. Killer Croc has a tail and tells Batman it’s new (evolution).
Eh. This to me sounds like you're afraid of the batman being a comic-book. Metahumans aren't necessarily genre-breaking or even out of place; a gritty, dark universe still has plenty of room for monsters in it.
@@mosorireayewale2820 no I’m not scared of that by any means. I mean going to hard into it too fast would be a very jarring tonal shift too soon. This would serve as a great jumping off point to do the weirder stuff. If it was Batfleck, that’s a different story. He’s already at the level where I can see him and Bat Mite interacting
@@mosorireayewale2820 No one said that. Pay attention to the comment.
Technically, Killer Croc is a human with a skin disease. He could work since his origins is as an abused circus freak. Some stories, he did his own teeth. SImilar to another villian ( Great White Shark). Others, it was natural.
I think what you're missing about Mr. Freeze is that everyone wants him while the town is flooded, that he'd be more menacing with all the water to freeze and travel over
That way he can travel without giving off Frozone from the incredibles vibes. Even give him a snomobile (or icemobile) to drive around on😂
I could kinda dig that maybe he is a murderer that freezes his victims kinda like that Dexter run with the ice murderer
That would be insane.
Winter Gotham would be so cool
The only problem I see with this pitch becoming a reality is the extensive use of meta human characters. Which I believe Matt Reeves has said he doesn’t really plan on doing.
Exactly, and i hope he doesn’t, i love realistic Batman
@@estudos6156 Same. I vastly prefer Batman working on his own (and/or with Gordon and Selina; I've never been big on Robin) in a stylized but grounded world over all the superhero team-ups and fantastical characters, and I strongly feel that none of those things would fit in the world that Reeves has created.
realist detective batman >>>>
@@LanceVanceDance84same, I prefer realistic batman without any justice league stuff
I think Freeze could also work for showing Robert Battinson's growth as a character. He moved on from being vengeance, learned from his fight with Riddler, and could portray that long term growth through a character like Freeze. Maybe Freeze is even inspired by Riddler and Batman has to prove to himself that he's different. Still think it'd be interesting but I love this pitch just as much!!
I really like this pitch! However this feels like one of those “one bad apple” stories if we don’t see the abuse being undertook by other doctors/orderlies/guards that is overlooked by the system of the asylum
The other workers in arkham could follow him maybe ManBat or White Bunny could be one of the only nice people who worked there and didnt follow him(so they didnt know how deep the experiments were)? But to not let them leave the job after having enough experience and have the possibility of them reporting him to autorities he make experiments(torture) on them and he makes the case they have to be institucionalized in Arkham and so they keep being experimented on until they become these superhumans. This would be their backstories they would already be ManBat and White Bunny in the movie we would discover this information with Batman detective work
Yup. We have to be shown throughout the movie (not just told by Bruce in the ending speech) that Strange is only able to operate the way he wants to because of the way the institution works and how it (and by extension society at large) views the patients. People who are sent to Arkham aren’t seen as people in crisis to be rehabilitated and empowered, they’re seen as sub-humans who need to be isolated from society and toward whom abuse is justified. Bruce isn’t just trying to oust corrupt leadership - he’s trying to change the *meaning* of Arkham.
I mean, if we're gonna steal from Arkham City, let's go all the way. Show Strange early in the movie replacing the security staff of Arkham with a private security firm: Tyger.
This could lead into Harley being reverse stockholmed by joker as his doc/therapist
Maybe Strange has so much power in Arkham that he chooses the guards and cientists that will work closer to him. Perhaps by a psycological profile in wich he sees they will agree with his methods.
I think for the second film, hush would be the perfect antagonist. A childhood friend of Bruce who is intent on destroying him. It would also have the mystery element with bodies turning up with mauled faces in hush's plan to become Bruce.
Would you consider making a video about casting the rest of the Batfamily (Robins, Batgirl, Batwoman, maybe even Batwing?) and Batman villains?
YES
Don't forget the Signal 😉
No, IMO this universe doesn't need to add all these random characters when we've only had literally 3 hours of Batman himself
Here's an idea... Just No.
@@krishp1104 okay, but still why not fan cast them? No harm, no foul
With no studio interference, I trust Matt Reeves to write a script that’s just as thought out and grounded (at least in its storytelling) to pull another incredible movie off. Your pitch was just as solid. Can’t wait to see what they do moving forward! The Gotham they created has sooo much potential
The script was by far the worst thing about The Batman.
@@hoopz5095 to each their own
lol he just crossed out "Seven" and wrote in "The Batman."
@@JDoe-gf5oz you could say that about literally almost any movie. It wasn’t a carbon copy so much as it was Inspired by several movies including Seven. And Bruce Wayne’s growth in the film isn’t similar to anything in Seven.
@@punkrocker4life9674 Dude, I can't say that about many movies except ones that blatantly rip it off, like that Christopher Lambert one. The Riddler even gives himself up for no reason toward the end because that's what Kevin Spacey's character did.
I'm still really betting on the Court of Owls popping up sooner rather than later just because Reeves seems really into them, even if that doesn't happen next movie.
I like Court of owls, BUT I think it’s way too soon. For me I see this series being more like Harry Potter which was 8 installments. Court of owls should be more towards the end.
@@svofoy_tre yeah I think if done well, the reveal of the court of owls being the ones pulling the string the entire time would be a crazy twist
I thought that they would be the true antagonists of the 1st movie prior to it's release
I originally had an idea for a two-pronged plot featuring both Zsasz and Hush. Zsasz is one of those villains whose appeared in films like Batman Begins and Birds of Prey and as a recurring role on the show Gotham, but I think he really could be the lead villain in a Se7en style drama, and I also pick Hush because I think he’s a great villain as well and it would be fun to see Batman grappling with two unrelated threats at the same time, especially when Hush is a villain who targets his Bruce Wayne side, and could even be tied into the Riddler like the comic. Plus, we could also possibly get a Red Dragon style scene in Arkham with the Joker. With a three hour run time, it wouldn’t be too difficult.
How about a pitch for Captain America: New World Order and Wonder Woman 3?
Don't hold your breath on WW3.
That dialogue pitch for the scene between Strange and Bats was amazing I felt like I was already seeing it in my mind
I really hope to see the likes of Professor Pyg, Hush, Firefly, Mad Hatter, Scarface, and Deathstroke in this new Batman era. Let’s get as dark as possible with Battinson’s world and give the spotlight to some lesser-known villains who haven’t reached the silver screen yet.
I really want killer moth :(
victor zsasz or however you spell it.
@@Connor-tr1dv I really want to see a fleshed out Zsasz where his inner psyche and the true horrific nature of his ideology is brought to light. It would especially work with Strange as the big bad.
@@FueledFromFiction Amazing idea
@@bluegecko2855 yess
I loved Hugo Strange in Gotham and I think he's brilliant in your pitch! It opens the possibility for so many more villains to come into the movies as Strange loves experimenting on people and mutating them, like in gotham. 10/10 pitch
The bit in 'The Batman' about Martha Wayne having been a former patient at Arkham is taken from the 2012 graphic novel "Batman: Earth One" volume 1. In that story, and I think in this most recent movie, her maiden name was Martha Arkham - in other adaptations before marrying Thomas she is Martha Kane.
I do love the idea of it being about Bruce learning about the system of Arkham being broken and not vilifying mental illnesses I would also just add that the animated series villain Lockup did exactly the same thing as this pitch and would recommend rewatching that episode if you haven’t already.
In the batman with Robert Pattinson, its my understanding that Arkham used its status as a mental institution to hide how it was housing political prisoners
Hugo Strange was awesome in Batman: Unburied. Would be a great villain for a movie imo! Great video
glad to see someone repping batman unburied, ended up being such a great story
The actor who voiced him John Rhys Davies would be phenomenal as him in a live action version too.
@@fjshark6173 I agree but he’s a little on the older side, which isn’t the worst thing in the world but id imagine Hugo being played by someone that is probably in there 50s or 60s, around there. Maybe late 40s at the earliest if they look old enough.
I remember initially thinking that’s who Tom Hardy was gonna play in TDKR before who he was playing was revealed.
@@svofoy_tre I’d like him to be somewhere in his 40s as well. Late 30s is not crazy either.
Your delivery of "behind Kiteman" literally made my LOL. I also did a spit-take with my coffee. Well done.
They need to show the process of rebuilding Gotham. Bruce Wayne should use his wealth and influence to raise money for the rebuilding project. I would expect the Bruce Wayne persona to be more developed. Maybe the story can revolve around Bruce meeting with other wealthy and influential families in Gotham. Then they can introduce the Court of Owls. In the power vacuum that was created with the death of Falcone, other people are scrambling to take control of Gotham. This includes some wealthy families who are part of a secret society. I hope they show Bruce becoming more social and using his charm and wealth to bring people together to clean up Gotham.
This is what the first film sets up, a Bruce Wayne that helps the city with his money opposed to how obsessed he was with using batman's violence to help the place
Pattinson definitely has the range to pull this off, if you haven’t seen Tenet I highly recommend it, and he shows a smoother more charming side in that movie (also Harry Potter he’s pretty charming Ig). But the court of owls thing, while I agree that is should be set up early, I think it would be cooler in a way that none of us would be able to tell until the court of owls is actually unveiled.
@@svofoy_tre It would be cool if the movie was influenced by Stanley Kubrick's style. Like Eyes Wide Shut, but set in Gotham, and throw in some action scenes.
Also, consider how they’re doing a Penguin TV series. Would be a very interesting way to see how Oswald met Carmine Falcone. Heck, they could even introduce his children Alberto, Mario and Sofia.
But also, on the sequel side of things, I can see Bruce trying to bring in more proper police to serve and protect, therefore one of them happens to be Harvey Bullock. I’m still surprised this day that we haven’t seen a film with Bullock in it.
A fresher villain that allows Bruce to contrast himself from the snobby rich people of Gotham while still.being grounded in reality. The Penguin could work but I'd go with Hush. You could have flashbacks with them being bratty little rich kids to show how they became so different and stuff.
They could make an insanely gritty and dark batman 2, for example manbat could be an amalgamation of human skin in the form of a bat, not even a failed experiment but surgically modified. Some body horror potential there. They could also have another side villain like killer croc, but completely reimagine him and make him more humanoid and have him be cannibalistic, all these characters could have origins in Arkham leading Him to strange and strange could be modifying them to fit their inner persona and darkness.
Yes killer croc would be amazing
@@Scottishboy3693 I think scarecrow would be absolutely 💯 for batman 2 with the gritty atmosphere and horror
Hugo Strange, Progressor Pyg AND Man-Bat ?!? In the same film? Absolutely perfect.
Fr
I think Nicholas Cage would be a great Harvey Dent, but this story line could also possibly explain why the Joker had so much bruises and scars in that deleted scene. While not being a villain, it would still be really cool.
Edit: I also think it would be cool if the designs of the creatures Hugo made were based off the Sloth victim from Se7en, since the first one was inspired by Se7en. Just that look of starvation would be very interesting to see.
Yeah, would be cool
This is my similar pitch:
I’d love to see an “antihero”/“sympathetic villain” Hugo Strange.
He finds out who Batman is and instead of trying to supersede him he tries to “fix” him.
He manipulates mentally ill patients into fighting Batman; each villain he manipulates represents a different damaged facade of Batman’s psyche.
At some point Batman realises what is going on, and further realises that it is making him a better person and crime fighter. Now he has to decide whether or not that’s a price he’s willing to pay.
Ngl I clearly don’t have 40 minutes of content here but I love the whole “Mad Scientist” Hugo Strange. I honestly find early Strange to be a bit dull and his Arkham/Batman connections to be his best asset.
that would be cool. would definitely explain the sudden spike of crazy outlandish villains
Wow this could be great philosophical batman film
This was an awesome pitch i absolutely love the scene you described of Hugo strange and Batman’s first meeting I can literally imagine Giancarlo Esposito as the arrogant Professor strange boasting how he figured out Bruce is Batman and how he set up a prison transport escape with Gordon it sounds awesome. The idea of Hugo strange playing a psychotic game of chess with Batman would be awesome to see.
I might be in the minority but I don't think this is the story/direction they should go into. Because of how they ended the last story, I believe they are setting up a folded version of the comic "NO man's Land" where instead of a flood an earthquake hits gotham and completely separates many places in Gotham from the GCPD and the bat Family. What then happens is that certain villains come out the woodwork to establish control, rebuild their plot of gotham in their own image and just take over without the oversight of the Bat Family. Especially with just how many villains they can pull from this makes a lot more sense than to just throw away the world state they are currently in for a Arkham specific story. I still want Hugo as a villian, maybe even the villian pulling strings, but at least have it in their world state
I agree, and I think a second movie with Freeze as the main antagonist, and other villains like Penguin, and Black Mask as secondary antagonists could be very compelling. The city is flooded and much like Katrina that is something that will take a long time. You could have Bruce use his resources to help rebuild the city. I also think to “ground” Mr. Freeze you could have him suffer from a psychosomatic disorder that makes him believe he needs a cold suit to stay a live, since this is a mental issue Bruce decides to invest in Arkham to help him, and use his resources to help Nora. I think that sets everything up for this video to be the third movie, and it still leaves room for Batman to deal with the power grab that is currently going on in Gotham.
@@svofoy_tre this, just this
I definitely have been thinking over it for a couple of months. A story where Dr. Hugo Strange, an orbital outsider of the Gotham elite while still being the CEO of Arkham Asylum; uses his hidden genetic experiments combined with hypnosis to create at first a Grendel from Beowulf type creature to hunt Gotham's elite before using stolen knowledge from a captured Dr. Langstrum and uses his own methods on him to create Man Bat at night. Langstrum is awake and active in the day but only with vague waking nightmares of his hidden activities. Bruce has to deduce not only who's man bat but also whose orchestrating the murders leading to a showdown with an enhanced Strange in the bowels of Arkham
Bruce Wayne rebuilding Gotham should be part of the sequel, but that the company hired to rebuild Is deeply corrupt in some way. It could tie into Arkham also. Every great pulp detective should have two cases they’re working on that turn out to be related.
Really went ALL OUT on this video! Had me feeling thrilled and engaged, like I was watching the movie
I love the idea of making a Batman movie where we take a hard look at the manipulative nature of the mental health system. I think it needs addressed even if not this way.
After his performance in in Oppenheimer , Josh Hartnett would be the perfect Harvey Dent laying the ground work for his unstableness in the future as two face but just Harvey dent for now. Also save Giancarlo for Mr.Freeze and use Batista as Hugo strange!
I think an interesting idea I don’t see explored much is a Hugo Strange/Clayface movie. One where Clayface’s origin is has Strange mixed in with it. Clayface is an actor of course looking for a way to look younger again, and I think you can probably have him go to Strange for help and have Clayface be one of Strange’s failed (or maybe even deliberate) experiments.
This is very interesting, can you elaborate more on how you would see this playing out? I like clay face and I think his story in the Batman animated series is very compelling but I haven’t been able to workout an idea for how he could be introduced in this universe, so I’m curious as to what yours is.
How about Clayface and Poison Ivy? Considering how both use beauty products (Matt Hagen Clayface uses beauty cream to cover his deformed face and Pamela Isley uses lipstick), I can see a film when it takes a darker take on these things. In fact, I wrote a pitch for what Clayface and Poison Ivy can do in a sequel. It's down here in the comments if you want to check it out.
@@osmanyousif7849 okay I’ll try to find it, sounds interesting.
@@osmanyousif7849 yeah I couldn’t find your original comment. Do you mind sharing it here? I’m genuinely interested.
Martha was also an Arkham in the Telltale video games, they're exclusively story based, no actions besides pressing a couple of buttons and being able to walk around environments for clues and whatnot, so very welcoming to ppl who don't play video games and the stories are some of the best batman stories I've encountered personally, highly recommend
Would make sense in universe to have a young, newly qualified Strange be the psychologist of Martha Wayne so that he can come into the Batman story at middle age with crucial information about Batman that he doesn't know he has yet.
This is very similar to my pitch except I had Hugo Strange pick different villains in an effort to "mock" Batman for a decon-recon switch.
1) Blockbuster: A superior physique to showcase how Batman paled compared to an augmented meta-humans.
2) Magpie: A woman with duel personalities with one being a dark rooftop battler to insult Batman's duel identities.
3) Firebug: Rebranded as a hardened military man who uses fire-weapons to belittle Batman's discipline.
4) Electrocutioner: A spectacle show-boater to demean Batman's flair for the theatrics in his war on crime.
A part of me really wants them to wait for a 4th movie for two-face as I feel like having two movies of Bruce and Harvey’s relationship would make the two-face stuff that much more powerful and meaningful and would provide for an interesting battle of Bruce having to fight someone who his close friend
Totally agree. I think the Dark Knight Trilogy had decent pacing for the most part but I was not in love with how quickly they turned dent into two-face. I understand why they did it, but Reeves’ version of the Batman seems to be more of a passion project, so I think he would be willing to be more patient in having Dent turn. Also Harvey Dent is a cool character in his own right and could contribute a lot to the story.
I like Hugo Strange & Arkham Assylum being at the center of this storyline. Lots of interesting side characters & plot lines can come from this foundation.
just the thumbnail was enough for me to realize Hugo Strange fit so perfectly with the tone of The Batman
This is such an amazing pitch for Batman 2..love it! Great job! You should be writing the screenplay man!😮
But I’d also love to see Brian Cranston as Mr. Freeze. Just watch the interrogation scene from Godzilla (2014) and imagine that it’s Victor Friez talking to GCPD about him trespassing on GothCorp. And this is unrelated, but I’d love to see Bill Burr play Killer Moth in a James Gunn project
Bill Burr as Killer Moth is something I never knew I needed till now
Bill Burr as Killer Moth in a hbo series would actually be cinema
YES! I think if Giancarlo plays Hugo then Cranston should play Freeze, and I love the bill burr casting for Killer Moth. I think comedians in serious roles works, and I think it also adds the level of comedy that the previous Batman had, where it wasn’t “bust a gut” but there were some moments that made me laugh. So having someone like Bill Burr who is naturally funny will have that same affect I would think.
How about Alan Tudyk? If you’ve seen him in I’Robot, you could tell that he definitely would nail the role.
@@osmanyousif7849 I would love Alan Tudyk as Amazo. Before he passed, I wanted Alan Rickman to voice Amazo
i think one of the best things to do is to explore the relation ship between harvey and bruce in such a way that bruce sees harvy and is reminded of his dad he is the hero he could never be
If Matt Reeves and team were to do this exact pitch and put their artisan touch on all of it, it might go down as the best Batman media ever released. Amazing pitch, Nando
I love the idea of Noir Freeze doing the classic Ice Bullet myth, stumping investigators
Awesome! I had a very similar idea. I would only add and change a couple of things here:
1) A scene in addition to Strange watching Bruce brush off the question about a cell for Batman in which Strange is interviewing Nashton (perhaps in the past) and makes the connection that Bruce wasn't there to open the letter even though he never went anywhere as far as anyone knew and it adds to his suspicion that Bruce Wayne is (the) Batman.
2) I would add small comic booky details to Langstrom's story to flesh it out: Langstrom was trying to cure deafness inspired by his deaf niece - just to make it more personal. It backfires, he is shown to have created a version of the Man-Bat formula and turns partially into a bat-creature. He is found by Strange or his hench-men and taken to the Arkham Hospital. His identity comes clear to Strange when he is reported missing by his wife Francine and/or his sister. Langstrom is treated at Arkham and perhaps is already showing signs of reverting back to his human form, but Strange has gotten a hold of his formula and plays with it more to turn Langstrom into Man-Bat proper, after which Strange sets him loose. You could say that Strange has had ideas similar to this with his man-beast fantasies but never came this close in his efforts until Langstrom inadvertently provided him the spark he needed. And Strange can keep playing dumb and say it was all Langstrom's own doing and that the serum must have been affecting him further unbeknownst to him / them.
3) Croc and Pyg are great options, they work fine in this pitch. I have a small problem with White Rabbit - her cloning ability is a bit too much for me even compared to the Man-Bat serum. I would suggest a different approach. Have the movie start off with Batman dealing with the rising criminal elements of the city (either under the rule of Oz / the Penguin or as his rivals). Have one of them be a small-time crime boss bordering on budding cult leader called Arnold Wesker, the Ventriloquist, who is either crazy or very charismatic and has managed to make his henchmen (who are also either crazy, in it for the money or legitimately scared of Wesker and his intentions) believe the puppet Scarface is alive and in control. He could be locked up into Arkham and later on be set free by Strange who compares the Wesker-Scarface relationship to Bruce-Batman (there's the fear as a weapon aspect and the dual personality aspect). That way you also get a sense of where the criminal life of Gotham is after Falcone's death.
4) Just for fun. I saw an opportunity for snarky BTAS-type Alfred moment in your pitch.
Bruce (after first meeting Strange): "I don't trust the doctor."
Alfred: "What makes you say that?"
Bruce: "I don't know. There's just something off about him. There's something --"
Alfred: "Strange?"
Bruce: -.-
What do you think?
Totally Agree, and I saw someone else earlier say that the ventriloquist should replace white rabbit and I couldn’t agree more. I think the ventriloquist is a perfect character for that role and fits well within the universe that has already been established. Excellent ideas!
I like Ventriloquist but what I first thought was Mad Hatter. I think it fits better with the aspects of Batman and Hugo's analysis of Batman. Mad Hatter is convinced he is something he is not and it hints at Hugo's seeing Bruce as a crazy person trying to get away from his true identity. Either could work but I've been dying for Mad Hatter to get put in a movie
This is a fantastic idea for the over arching themes and a perfect way to highlight Batman’s strength of will, intellect, and integrity with great introduction of new characters
Esposito would literally be a perfect Hugo strange it’s like scary accurate
This pitch was 🔥 you completely convinced me why Hugo Strange is a perfect fit for the sequel
I love the animal motifs with each of the patients you chose. It could really serve to convey the message that Strange sees the patients of Arkham as nothing more than animals.
Just for all interested, Bruce's mother has always been from one of the other big families of Gotham. Normally, she's a Kane. This movie actually isn't the first time she's been an Arkham either; she was an Arkham in the Batman: Earth One series, and had a pretty similar issue that befell her there. Reeves pulled a lot from Earth One, Zero Year, Long Halloween, and a little from Year One for his version of Batman.
I like that all of Strange’s patient pawns are animal-themed. There’s something to be said there
Freeze would fit in the sense that they're both men caught in their pasts. Freeze trying to change it with Bruce attempting to ensure no one else endures that past again.
When you say that Freeze is best as a villain for a vengeful Batman. That makes me think he would be great for a post Jason Todd death Batman movie.
Once again, such a great concept that organically showcases many villains yet has a focused story with a central theme.
Haven't watched the video yet, but if they want to keep going in the detective movie route they could use Calendar Man as the main villian and have it take place through the year as Batman howns his skills as a detective while working with the GCPD. Probably could have Bruce Willace as Calendar man or Paul Giamatti.
I think it would be too similar to having the Riddler as a villain. I love the movie. But some people complained about it being too slow. So perhaps we could have a villain who is more of a physical match for Batman.
@@nerychristian exactly
We could have someone like black mask mister freeze mad hatter or scarecrow
He will only do crimes on holiday lol make him as side villain
A few years ago I scribbled out my version of how a “Batman Cinematic Universe” could work. One of the movies had strange as the primary villain w manbat as his creation. Glad to see someone shares a similar vision
Cool pitch as always, but I don't think it manages to escape the "how to write a Batman villain without leaning on mental illness" problem. Strange is obsessed with Batman, and his plan to study Bruce a while instead of killing him is what leads to his downfall--maybe there's a way to spin that as arrogance or hubris, but as is this feels like a story about how the mentally ill are being exploited by an EVIL mentally ill person.
I think if the movie shows how the entirety of the Arkham Asylum is corrupt and not just strange it stops it from being just “mentally-ill=bad” and more of corruption that Batman has to take down as both Bruce and the dark knight. Ya feel me ?
@@svofoy_tre I mean, I think this draft already shows that. Strange isn't the sole reason Arkham is corrupt, he's taking a system that was already corrupt and using it for his own ends. That's all fine.
My point is it's a bit weird that that this is a story that actively takes steps to distance itself from the "insane supervillain" trope, but the primary antagonist is still a mad scientist with an unhealthy obsession with Batman. No amount of framing Strange as "one part of a larger problem" is going to fix that issue.
@@nathanl8622 interesting. I think I get what you’re saying but I’m not entirely sure. So is your issue that his reasoning isn’t compelling enough and that’s why he’s written off as “insane”? Because I think every supervillain is “insane” to some degree.
Like Thanos for instance, he was trying to prevent a Malthusian catastrophe at a universal level and (spoilers for The Eternals) prevent the birth of more eternals, but he killed half of the population to do that which is pretty insane.
@@svofoy_tre Yeah I feel like Strange leans a little too much on the Batman obsession to be considered "mentally well" (and tbf rewatching the video Nando does acknowledge that). I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing to have villains who are bit "insane" (if nothing else being a villain requires having a skewed or absent sense of morality) but for this pitch in particular I'd say that's important.
And there are ways to write a "sane" supervillain. Killmonger is perfectly rational, his ideals just clash with the heroes. The Penguin is (depending on the version, at least) just a very dangerous crook. Or at least have a villain that isn't specifically undone because of their eccentricities--this Strange could've won if he were pragmatic and killed Batman when he had the chance, but he wanted to study him instead and that gave Batman the room he needed to pull out the win.
@@nathanl8622 Yeah I see what you mean now.
Hugo Strange definitely has a lot of potential. Fantastic video, loved how much care and passion you put into this video.
Nando, would you like to go to the water park with me? I heard they have some new slides
This is one of the best Batman stories ever made. Perfect mock up for the second movie! It’s so perfect it’s actually impressive.
This is a fun idea, really leaning into the Rogue's Gallery concept in a purposeful way
And the 2 in a Trilogy should be weird and different
I think it would have been fun to get like a knight fall story going on.
Think about it, the crazies see riddler dressed in a costume and got famous, so they decide to kite man, crazy quilt, so and so.
Bruce takes them all out one by one, then Hugo releases them all in one knight, every single patient. Big final fight, joker gets out BAM
i love your pitch! the blending of supernatural elements need to be explored more and i feel that you using man bat to begin batmans struggle between his identities is exactly how i think it should go. I also think that you should look into killer moth as a possible villain, should wb contact you for batman 3 ;)
Freeze is my number 1 pick but I did think Hugo would be better as an antagonist working in the shadows and pulling the strings throughout a whole trilogy have Hugo having a patient interview with Riddler at the end of the second movie. I would love to see the Court of Owls, Calendar man, Hush, Clayface, Mad hatter and Scarecrow in this universe before we get another Joker plot
I feel like this is way too much fantastical way too soon. Rearrange the characters used, and I could see it. Mr. Pyg, surely. Fits right with the tone. Killer Croc as an actual shape-changing monster? Man-Bat? Those are movie 4 villains. The MCU took its time to get us acclimated to the fantasy elements. Considering where it started, it needed it. Same goes for The Batman. Your explanation behind Mr. Freeze only convinced me that’s the better choice. Hugo Strange’s gimmick is creating monster-creatures from patients. That feels like we need an interstitial story that blends those two versions of reality together. He COULD be the second movie’s villain. But with meta-humans? Not really. I’m not even opposed to them being introduced, but the leap from the first movie to this one is just enormous, way more than I think most comic book fans realize. The Batman is NOT that kind of movie. A Robin? I can see it. A woman who can create an immediate clone of herself? I can’t.
Thematically, this pitch is perfect. The use of Arkham is great. I just feel like it needs to tone down the fantastic. Which, if that’s the case, I don’t know. I feel like a Batman villain deserves their full arsenal. But I do think Hugo Strange as a cruel, manipulative psychiatrist could just work on its own, realistic. So I’m conflicted.
Mr. Pyg
Yeah the first Man-Bat scene in the pitch sounded really jarring to me.
@@DonkeyBoyVids . . . Yes, Uncle Sean?
If Hugo Strange is in the Arkham show, that can be the bridge
I think for the second film we could introduce Mr. Freeze. Freeze is the perfect mix between grounded and fantastical as he has not real powers and uses science and technology to become a threat. Freeze also is different from riddler in the sense that he is not selfish but wants to save his wife, which is a valuable lesson to Batman who has realized that he needs to help people. I think for this grounded universe Freeze would not literally have a sub-zero suit, but rather a suit that is extremely cold to “regulate his temperature” but is all apart of a psychosomatic disorder that is helping him cope with his wife’s current condition. Since a psychosomatic disorder is a mental issue, by the end of the movie you can have Bruce use his resources at Wayne Enterprises to save Nora, and use his personal resources to invest in Arkham and help save/rehabilitate Mr. Freeze. That sets everything up for this pitch to be the third movie and now the leap from ultra realism to surrealism is not as drastic. Maybe you could push this pitch to the fourth installment but I haven’t thought of what should be the the third yet if that’s the case 🤷🏾♂️.
I love the idea of Hugo Strange being The Batman 2’s villain, he’s a perfect fit and deserves a big-screen adaptation. However, one plot-hole I can point out in this video is this: how would Bruce have no tangible evidence that Hugo is behind the plot if he has his eye-contact cameras? Perhaps some sort of electrical interference in the room? Then how would he know?
Finally, somebody agrees with me that Hugo Strange should be the main antagonist of the Batman 2.
It is possible because we are getting an Arkham series we will probably see Hugo strange in that series an it will transition the sequel with him as the villain but for me personally I would like to see killer croc black mask and mister freeze
I would love to see a manbat created by Hugo in this universe, the noir setting can be combined very well with even a little bit of horror with a realistic mutant Frankenstein esc manbat.
I always get angry that these pitches and ideas never get implemented onto the big screen. Would definitely watch it, however I don't know if these villains would fit into the highly ground world.
I think they could maybe not White Rabbit, but man bat has a scientific background, and killer croc can be explained through science. I think looking at what Reeves did with Planet of the apes and how marvel used “science” to bridge the gap between real-life and fantasy, those two characters can be justified. I have no clue how you can explain someone with the power create a clone without it seeming “off-brand”. Maybe you could tweak it as she cloned herself, so it’s not really a power and more of and experiment, but I think that kinda takes away from the character so I’d just say replace her.
The only thing I would add is that clayface would make a great addition to the monster mash in place of white rabbit. He could make copies of himself, strange, the other monsters, Bruce's parents, even Bruce himself
These pitches never let me down.. you put so much thought into these
I feel like with this second one our frontrunners are probably Hush, The ventriloquist and the penguin. All 3 are characters i could picture fitting into the universe besides penguin bc hes already in the universe lol. I have a feeling it could be hush or hush and someone bc its pretty much already confirmed without it being said he exists in the world
#1) Reeves has voiced his interest in Adapting Freeze next
#2) Freeze’s revenge quest would in fact be a perfect foil for a Batman who is just learning to leave Vengeance behind.
Think Black Panther in Civil War
A Batman movie with scare crow, pyg, and manbat would be just a straight up horror movie.
I just about died laughing when you called killer croc Waylon Jennings. Waylon Jennings is a country singer, Waylon jones is killer croc
Came looking to see if anyone else noticed. Also The Joker's real name is Kris Kristofferson and Clayface is Johnny Cash.
Zsasz, Hush, Man-Bat, Scarecrow, Pyg, etc. Something grounded and horrific.
I could see your “symbol of hope” theme work for Clayface as well. An actor that used to be a fan favorite that has been down on his luck and forgotten. I also think that The Batman 2 should double down on the detective skills of Batman with a villain who can change his looks.
For me Killer Croc would be great with Gotham being flooded. You can even use Hugo Strange in a similar way. He mutates Croc further. In the end you can even vist the circus Croc came from, and it's Haley's circus. The last scene is the annoucer pointing to the trapeze
You made such an excellent case for Mr. Freeze, I was a bit skeptical of the Hugo Strange villain pitch (as cool as all of the legacy perks, and firsts are). But when you hit me with ManBat. TAKE MY MONEY.
Though it's pretty unlikely, I would still absolutely love to see professor pyg on the big screen to continue down the darker tone and more realistic darker and violent world that was started with the first new Batman movie. The inspirations that they pulled from seven being doubled down on and exploring the darkest parts of a deranged monster vs a Batman trying to be a beacon of hope while the city is gripped by fear would just be a sight to behold. At least to me, but I'd just be happy to see the world built on.
I wouldn’t mind this, but I kind of want a professor pyg maybe or something that could be considered scary in the next movie.
I had a very similar idea for Hugo Strange for a hypothetical new DCEU reboot. I guess it just figures that others could also see Strange making monsters who are not the monster men.
Also, about why people seem to want Freeze for The Batman 2: maybe it has to do with the fact that Reeves has openly said that he wants to use Freeze?