I took it as Vader being disappointed with Obi-Wan. He’s festered in his hate for 10 years waiting for the opportunity to find and best Kenobi in combat, to show him just how much more powerful he’s become. Then he finally finds him and it turns out Obi-Wan Kenobi the great Jedi , his former master, is gone. Instead there’s only this scared weak old man ben. This plus the conflicting feelings and painful memories of seeing his old master and friend once again before him was enough to give Vader pause. He stares at Kenobi as he’s getting dragged away as he realizes all this and feels nothing but dissatisfied. This moment was supposed to be his greatest triumph and yet it’s all to easy for him. He wants old ben to get away and get stronger so he can fully enjoy his revenge against the Jedi master that took everything from him.
Vader wouldn’t be stopped from killing or harming kenobi just because he’s weak, he doesn’t care if it’s an equal fight or not because all he wants is revenge, if he found kenobi passed out on the street he’d torture or kill him, the writing is just bad, one second he says bring him to me but fire stops him and all of a sudden kenobi escapes
@@Capybara2240 Vaders reaction to seeing the people closest to Anakin have always been different from others. He even did this with Ashoka in a different way for a moment after she broke his mask and told him she wasn't leaving him. He paused for a few moments before igniting his saber. This was 5-6 years after. His mission was also to break through the veil of the dead to bring back Padme. Anakin has always existed beneath the surface. It just took the only thing he had left of Padme to bring Anakin back.
@@Capybara2240 your wrong. This guy is right. Hes not full of blind rage and going to run and attack him on sight like a teen having a temper tantrum. Hes had ten years to plan and imagine. U can have rage and still kept composure. Hes the emperor's man. U cant be seen loosing ur mind in front of the troops. Hes grown. He knows kenobi got nowhere to really hide. He wants to inflict pain and fear into his as possible. Let's say someone did horrible things to ur loved one. U catch him. R u gonna dome him so hes done in a split second? Or r u gonna spend days or weeks doing it slowly. Maybe even let him run away so the guys gets that little bit of hope that he might be safe.
To me, Vader was just shocked when he saw how weak Kenobi has become. When kenobi runs away the first time without igniting his saber. Vader turns his saber off and just looks shocked to me. Like he was thinking "This is what I get? I waited 10 years for the great Kenobi to just run like a coward?"
This is exactly what I thought . It was the first thing I thought actually. I’m very surprised he hasn’t mentioned it at all. I think that would be the reaction to anyone in this situation for anything really. Example ; if I was considered the fastest sprinter ever and before I go to showcase that , I lose to my coach; finally 10 years later I get a chance at redemption and show up and the person I lost to has a broken foot, I’m not gonna want to race his ass. I need him to heal before I beat him. Only then will it prove I’m the strongest
I understand the shock seeing weak people. When i fought from September 1980 to the end of 95. So many were so weak, so badly trained..specially those light contact tournaments. I made them pad for their weakness. I earned a nicname...Butcher..I chopped most down who stood before me. Even at 57, specially these days no one trains ro actually hurt... I always promised ...I will break ribs and bones..and you head gear..I can get through it.. I fought we all rage and hate but I could turn it on and off...absolute control... 57 and going to martial arts places..the only though guys are bjj people..no fesr.
@@shawnpinkney4455 Well, I wouldn't say toying with him. Vader doesn't toy. This was a situation where he wanted a battle to beat him down in every way possible. But he saw Obi was no more so now it's all about making him suffer. Suffer for a long period. It's not toying. It's revenge served up cold, over and over.
@@greezythumb First great name. Lol. You spell yours the right way. 2nd. There is a great video by star wars theory that explains what i said. Canonically Vader uses form V. It's a aggressive form of saber dueling. But in other Cannon battles Vader will hold back due to being aware that's how he lost before. Vader can go hard in the paint but fighting other jedi will take his time and be surgical and sadistic when calls for. I've read too much Vader lore to know he doesn't just run through all his victims. If I know that then so do the writers. Go watch that video id u dis agree. You can not like the scene, that your right but its not the fault of the writers or the script as Vader is KNOWN for doing that. Slow motion, deliberate strikes. Thats why it was in this scene
I think “when I left you” still refers to his apprenticeship of Obi wan…while it is technically Vader talking, Anakin I feel is talking to Obi wan there…as mentioned by Hayden, Vader is always in conflict
That’s how I take it too, but it could also be taken as from when Vader last left Obi-Wan in their last meeting before ANH-which we will hopefully see in the last episode of Obi-Wan-he was the learner, but not under Kenobi, but under Sidious, because during this time, Vader is I think still very much learning the ways of the Dark Side from Sidious as we are shown in the comics as well as learning how to do everything he could do before when he was still mostly human again and learning to slowly get used to the suit, even though I don’t think he ever does get used to the suit 100%, but I could be wrong, and once he learns everything I just mentioned and sees Obi-Wan again in ANH, he is at that time the Master because by that point in time, Darth Vader feels he can take on the Emperor and overthrow him as he did try once before, but failed (comics)but he is also in his own way a master of the Dark Side and of his suit, the pain it causes him aside.
I wouldn't say he was timid at all. He sensed Obi-Wan's fear, and made an example of the innocents in the village to perpetuate that fear. Then he easily found him a few times and sparred with him a little to see what his level was. Then! When he had enough of messing around he completely dominated Kenobi by force choking him and dragging him through the fire. That moment when the music heightens and he tips the flammable rock or whatever onto the dirt was class. So purposeful. He just upped the ante and got the job done it was awesome. A bit like me in Battlefront 2 playing Hs v Vs haha. Sussing your opponent out then bam you combo the fucker. Im joking, I have like 4 level 400 characters but I'm still shit :D This might sound daft but apart from blowing up Alderan (told you this would sound daft) I never really saw much in the classic trilogy that made Vader look that evil. Even with the destruction of Alderan you could argue it was more Tarkin's doing. For me, ROTS when he kills the younglings, slaying the rebels in RO and snapping an innocent villagers neck is the baddest things we've seen from Vader ever. And don't worry theory, I'm pretty sure he's gonna do some more nasty, evil shit before the series ends
Destroying Alderaan was Tarkin's doing. Vader simply didn't argue with it. But we have seen him being, especially when he murder his own subordinates, even the ones who apologized for their shortcomings.
Thank fuck there’s actually someone out here with some sense. Vader hasn’t ever done anything majorly evil other than just kill some guys for being in his way. He’s the emperor’s henchman and nothing else. He’s just a walking tank meant to threaten people and kill them if necessary. He’s choked a few people and killed a few people and that’s it. I really don’t understand why people expect more than what they are used to already. People are acting like Vader has a whole list of evil things he’s done when in fact he’s just killed a few people and that’s it.
Gotta be honest, I didn't think he was timid at all. I thought he was extremely imposing. He's slow walking after Obi-Wan knowing full well that he's got nowhere to escape to. When he does reach him, his strikes are knocking Obi-Wan to the ground. He doesn't even grip the blade with two hands and he's still pushing Obi-Wan's blade and body back, despite Obi-Wan using both hands and all his strength. Then of course he force pushes him, force chokes him and drags him through the flames. All badass.
Agreed. Strange choice of title. I know some fans want him to fly over the flames and chop Kenobi in two because that would be realistic, but this isn't realism, it's a work of fiction and it has to last more than one episode. Clearly it is meant to show that Vader is toying with him. And for timidness Vader has Kenobi suspended in the air choking him, and throws him into fire and holds him there, before force pushing him out after a mere light roasting, ordering his stormtroopers to go then go fetch.
No one actively escalating a fight is timid. The word is being used in a relative sense, however, considering that people who know Vader know just how aggressive he can be, and how much Kenobi meant to him. He's attacked thieves with more ferocity than he used with Obi Wan. Though I don't yet know if this will have a good explanation, it can't be denied that the relative lack of emotion and eagerness in Vader during that fight doesn't match that of Vader from right after Revenge of the Sith.
Totally agreed. Vader's Hardcore in this ep. He chokes a couple people before force-snapping a kid's neck, then smacks Kenobi around for awhile, One-Handed, THEN lights him on fuckin' fire! You scare me, poster! Because if that's your idea of timid....:D
@Devin Brice the difference from ROTS is that he's in a heavy metal suit this time, and also he's not facing random mooks like in Rogue One. The man he's facing wasn't his average Jedi either, if the last time Vader had lost his limbs due to his over aggressiveness and giving into emotions, this time could easily be his head. Vader also knew he had become weaker after being burned in the previous fight, he could never be strong like ROTS Anakin, plus he had heard from Reva that Obi Wan had killed the Grand Inquisitor. He had every rightful reason to be extra wary of Obi Wan and not act impulsively.
He said to Obi-Wan "Your suffering is only beginning" meaning that he did not intend to fully unleash his powers on Obi-Wan. He could of easily killed Obi-Wan but he wants to take his time with him and get his revenge on him. Plus I think he is still a little conflicted and potentially a little shocked that he actually found his master after all these years
I also think vader was very disappointed that the obi wan who defeated him at mustafar is now a emotionally broken shadow of his former self that has allowed his abilities to atrophy away so much from dissuse. Vader wanted an epic conformation with the former master who bested him but instead found a scared broken old man who has allowed himself to become very out of tune with the force to the point of being almost defenseless and this robbed vader of all the satisfaction he was expecting to have upon reuniting with obiwan.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm a d***hebag that relishes in doing this The word you're looking for is "could've" not "could of" "could've" is a contraction of "could have" "could of" doesn't grammatically make sense
Yeah that timid argument really bothers me. He snapped a child’s neck, dragged a woman to her death, but not killing his former master is “timid”. Give me a break
Well then again, those people are harmless. They can't save themselves. But what if it's the fact that Vader didn't know if Obi-Wan stayed in shape or not?
When Vader says "when I left you", he may not have been referring to the literal last time they met, but maybe instead to when he 'left' Kenobi in terms of turning away from him and the Jedi Order.
That's literally the only way I've ever thought of that, he would've said when we last met if he was referring to the last time they fought instead of saying when I left you
I don’t think he was timid, I think he was expecting one Obi and got someone completely different. Expecting the former Obi he would obviously be on guard and seeing this one probably confused him and destroying him wouldn’t give him the satisfaction he is looking for. Remember he want to show he is the most powerful and you can’t get that by killing someone that’s less than a equal rival.
He’s just toying with Kenobi. Could possibly be hesitant about going all out on his former master because seeing Kenobi again after all this time could be quite traumatizing for Vader despite his hatred for him🤷♂️
@@SithEnthusiast12 Yes. Because in episode 3, Vader wanted to prove he was more powerful than OB1. Or any other Jedi. Hence why he felt the need to be extra and do a 360 spin over Kenobi's head only to get cut down. He needs to upstage OB1, but it wouldn't really mean much if he did it against Hobo wan Kenobi and not the real Obi-Wan. Like Vegeta wanting to beat Goku at his peak.
I think he just wants to torture Kenobi a bit and make him suffer like he did. I think the perfect revenge on someone is making them suffer instead of just killing them.
Vader must have some plan for Obi-Wan. That's why he didn't want to kill or torture longer him in last episode. I don't blame screenwriters. I just hope it won't be the only duel between Vader and Obi-Wan. For me episode 3 of Kenobi is fantastic!
I feel people are going about this in the wrong way. What they don’t seem to understand, is that Obi-Wan is not ready for this sort of confrontation. He JUST found out that Vader was still alive, he’s been in exile for 10 years, the nightmare that he’s been having for 10 years it’s now back and even worse than before. It was extremely traumatic what happened in revenge of the Sith, and now out of nowhere he’s confronted with this again. What is happening here, is that Obi-Wan is not the same Obi-Wan, he too suffered just like Vader did. And it has broken him. Vader was shocked to see this. Think about it, compare their fight in revenge of the Sith, or just any behavior that Obi-Wan showed in the past, and compare him to now. The very shock at seeing his former master in this state is what held him back, because this dragon that he felt he needed to slay from his past, was no dragon, it was just a ghost. And I think that genuinely threw Vader off.
Your hustles are as badly thought out as the show was. I don't need to WONDER what happens to Obi Wan and Vader. Both are already dead. This is a FLASH BACK. All these hustles, that we don't know, we have to wait and see, NO WE DON'T. They are both already dead. Vader and Obi Wan had the same motivation. Anakin was not truly dead. The good was still alive in Vader. Vader was a victim of the prophecy, the emperor, Quai Gon dying, his mother being murdered. Vader wants to be SAVED by Obi Wan. Vader is still the learner. Obi Wan is still his master. Vader wants to be rescued. All already happened. The writers dropped the ball and the show is all wrong and a mess. You can stop lying about it.
He was absolutely not timid. He is making obi wan feel his pain and isn’t done with him he let obi wan go because he wants him to feel true fear and hopelessness he wants to break him
@@claykeough7898 This "broken coward" is carrying the guilt of letting the chosen one fall to the dark side resulting in the destruction of his own order, the birth of the Empire and the deaths that followed. What the fuck do you people expect
@@claykeough7898 Yes, there would be no story if he was still RotS level, except contrary to what Vader is plotting, Obi Wan is going to be reinvigorated by this defeat, and I imagine once he connects with Qui Gon he will be insanely powerful in the force again.
@@claykeough7898 how is the supposed to not be broken when he literally lost his master, entire Jedi Order, his lover, and ultimately his brother (Anakin). He lost everything. Some really backward thinking you got.
Exactly how I read it. He obviously let him go. He said your only beginning to feel suffering and pain. He wants drag it out make him feel as he has. Makes total sense to me
I didn’t feel he was THAT timid. I liked how it looked like he was stalking his prey then unleashed a bit of a barrage without needing to go all out. And about Obi-Wan, of course he would eventually become the guy who beat Maul in 3 moves.
When Vader said “left you” he could have ment left to join the dark and he was still a learner in his mind and in a new hope he is now the master, he might not be mentioning the fights in between
I don’t think he was timid at all actually. He was literally snapping innocent peoples necks and dragging them through the streets, along with choking them. And then he frickin dragged Kenobi into a fire. I thought Vader was actually super cool in this episode
Def not timid. Either he actively decided to prolong Obi's suffering, or it's a personal emotional struggle. Either he has this perfect idea of killing Obi Wan in his mind, and ONLY wants it to happen in one certain way without any outside interference, or he's conflicted about it from a light side/dark side place. Personally, I relate it to how when it comes to relationships, often the thrill of getting someone to fall for you is more stimulating than actually being in a relationship with the person. Vader is thrilled by and addicted to the chase of Obi Wan and making him suffer, but once he actually gets to KILL him, it feels underwhelming and not nearly as exciting as being able to see his scared face and threaten everything he's trying to protect. That's how I received it at least.
@@JeremyCoolDude that’s all well and good but it was not communicated to the audience, hence so many are confused, what’s the more likely scenario? The writing is just bad and Obi Wan gets away so we can get another fight later in the show, the getaway scene was just lazily written and fans have noticed, still some good things in the show though.
Vader gazing at Kenobi when he saw the droid rescuing him.The fire in his lenses.All I can think of is the conflict within him.He probably feels he waited so long to battle Kenobi.The duel didn't meet his expectation.He feels stunned how pathetic and weak his former master is.We humans would do anything to get what we desire when we finally do we are a lit bit let down or conflicted.
He's just toying with Kenobi, looked pretty simple to me. And I trust this isn't the final fight so there's going to be a time when both Vader and Obi-wan are going to be at full strength. At least I hope
@@liftedmarco4976 not likely, since when he left the Jedi order he was STILL a learner, just learning under someone else. If you've seen the prequels you already know that line makes no sense, so this second fight we're gonna see he'll probably get his ass handed to him and we will PROBABLY see at least a holo of Palpatine lambasting Vader with some "much to learn speech, making his line in ANH make more sense 🤷♂️ Or I have too much faith in the writers. Not sure yet.
Darth Vader showed up to fight the guy that disfigured him with 10 years MORE experience. He found someone who was broken by the experience and did not nurture any of those skills. When he realized this, he decided that killing him would have felt like killing the civilians he had just killed... That was the thought we saw him have, and that's why he walked away.
I feel as if Vader was testing Obi-Wan’s strength. Then when he said “the years have made you weak” he realised that was true. It wasn’t just an insult. So he held back and toyed with Obi-Wan. In doing so he felt a tremendous amount of joy and pride to make a joke out of his former master while also feeling a sense of dissatisfaction in the fact that he is facing a shallow version of Kenobi in his prime.
I don't know why people keep calling Vader 'timid'. The guy literally just killed random villagers just to draw Obi-Wan out and proceeded to pretty much torture him afterwards. If anything, I found Vader to be more timid in the entirety of A New Hope than in one episode of Kenobi.
He wasn’t timid. Remember, the emperor told him to focus on the big picture. Patience is the key for the Sith. I feel he learned a great deal. He saw how weak Kenobi is.
I don't feel Vader really cares about what the emperor wants. After all, Vader had been scheming against ol Paps even before he lost the high ground. The answer is in Vader'e own words... "Your pain has only begun" It's all about making Kenobi suffer just as he did.
I think they got him right, especially if they’re going down the whole conflict route as the way he delivered some of the mines such as “you should’ve killed me when you had the chance” was a very anakin thing to say. If you think back to the clone wars anakin says something similar to Dooku “you should’ve quit whilst you were still alive”. Once vader realised Kenobi wasn’t the man who left him for dead on mustafar I think he started pushing to see how much he could get away with in the duel. I also think he let him get away to mentally break him as there’s a rumoured Leak about him going to Jabeen and an killing people so potentially he’ll want to showcase his full power to put even more fear into kenobi. However it’s just a thought
Ten years prior Vader was acting on raw emotion and ten years gave him time to process and ten years later still pissed at Kenobi but in a calm anger demeanor which makes him at the most dangerous. Vader probably wanted him to suffer in a slow burn way and but he probably thought it wasn't worth it and let Kenobi run until he comes back ready to fight and that will be a 3rd match.
I honestly can never imagine Vader being afraid at all, I would imagine him being so furious just seeing Obi Wan that he wouldn’t even think that logically, I get letting him get away to kind of savor the revenge or let Obi Wan get back to normal but Vader is one of the most terrifying villains ever and I wish they would just show that a lil better. Either way I appreciate the content and I guess we’ll have the answers soon… hopefully 🙏
Yeah timid is the absolute wrong word to use here. Timid is a synonym for cowardly. Vader was not being cowardly in any way but I get what I think you actually mean. He was very reserved and cautious and wasn't going all out which I think fits into the nature of this fight.
Yeah I agree. I get what theory was saying but “timid” is the exact opposite of what I came away from this episode thinking of Vader. He was ruthless and unhinged after finding out the whereabouts of the man he wants to exact the ultimate revenge on. He murdered civilians to bait him out, stalked Kenobi like a predator to prey before even clashing sabers and then proceeded to burn him alive (you know he had been thinking about that). He clearly wasn’t going all out. He was dueling with one hand. He had SEVERAL chances to kill him if he really wanted to end it then and there but that wouldn’t be satisfying. He wants the ultimate revenge. I guess that being the objective of this fight was lost on people and that’s understandable. It’s been debated all week. I just wasn’t as personally bugged because that’s what I understood the fight to be. Curious and excited to see what Vader is like on the next encounter. I assume it’s going to be all out and everything we’d hope for.
When Vader ignites his Sabre it’s framed in a mirror image of when he ignited it to kill the younglings, giving Obi Wan the extra fear for Leia as he knows Vader has no problem killing children, and why’s he led Vader away from her. Edit *short on my channel shows it*
@@ExpectinSomeADifferentAlias the scene was more for us, to relate the scenes so we realise Obi Wan is thinking of Leia, we the viewer already know that Obi-wan knows Vader murdered younglings, it’s cinematic poetry for the viewer.
Have to agree with some of the comments. I did not think it was anything resembling timid. To your point, he's probably over that vengeful surge of rage he initially felt and wanted to show his old master just how secure/confident/masterful he had become in his own abilities and saw no need to exhibit any over-aggression/recklessness knowing he was in full control.
I think the fact we're able to have such deep conversations about literally every aspect of Kenobi and Vader's interactions show they're actually doing a really good job. I don't think it's poor writing at all. They know what they're doing having Vader silently look on in the flames as Kenobi is rescued. They know we'll talk about every aspect and angle of that decision for days on end. This show is tying in classic, prequel and sequel trilogy as tight as they can. Its clear to see and Im grateful. Last thing Ill say is that with Hayden and Ewan around I feel its in safe hands and they wont allow the fans to feel fucked over. I dont think they would have come back otherwise.
just found out Ewan is executive producer as well. It couldn't be in safer hands IMO. That's not to say I haven't rolled my eyes once or twice during the series! Obi-Wan telling Bail Organa to 'find someone else' is so un Obi-Wan. But its a tv show at the end of the day, our high expectations as true fans can be our undoing at times.
I really like how you have reminded us of Kenobi vs. Maul. It gives me confidence that Kenobi will regain his Strength again. I mean come on… this is the guy who also killed Gievous. I won’t be surprised if he defeats Vader in the last episode or next season.
I don't think he will beat Vader. I think they will have a draw and eventually Vader will become far more preoccupied with the Deathstar and the stolen plans/the Rebels. More or less putting Obi-Wan on the back burner until Vader kills him in A New Hope. I don't know if they will address this but Vader didn't seem surprised to see Obi-Wan in A New Hope.
@@zacm9747 Vader existed for only two things after he realised Palpatine lied to him: 1. To resurrect Padme 2. Find Obi Wan. The inquisitors were solely created to hunt and kill Jedi. The ultimate hope for Vader was that Obi Wan would be found by them. Vaders hesitation in episode 3 showed that Anakin had matured (remember what Duku did to him when he under estimated him? Remember what Obi Wan did to him when he again under estimate him. Can’t wait for the story to unfold. THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENT
He’s trying to torture obi wan he let him go because he knows obi wan is going to live in fear and the build up to death is worse then the death itself from vaders POV
Also he left Kenobi which matches up with the line A New Hope. I'm guessing we will see Vader be the learner in their second duel cause he learned that he should of killed Kenobi the first time around when he had the chance instead of toying with him which caused Kenobi to become the Ben Kenobi we see in ANH.
New Rockstars easily explained it instead of critiquing it, like the wanna be movie director SWT. Almost as if he forgot how to do breakdowns without sharing his uncared for opinions on scenes he didnt understand off the rip.
Lame af, that's just an excuse. If Darth Vader was more aggressive against obi-wan, swinging hard af, throwing shit at him with the force, force pushing him, literally NOBODY would complain.
Could the “When I left you…” quote just be referring to when Anakin left Kenobi to become Vader? I feel like Vader is far too powerful at this point for Kenobi to overcome, but at the very least (and obviously) survive. I think the next time they duke it out will end up in another stalemate, which at this point Kenobi realizes Anakin is truly lost.
that's also how I interpret the line. I also think that Kenobi wouldn't let him live again (assuming he wins) so there would have to be some random reason that prevents him from killing Vader
@@E00700 It's very possible he beats Vader and still can't finish him off because he see's Anakin...or sense some kind of light in him...or doesn't strike him down because he won't do it out of rage....as he has to much love for Anakin the person to let himself do it, no matter what he has become.
Yes this! I interpret that line to do with ROTS. The originals were written a very long time ago and the story has only further developed and progressed. I'm sorry to all the original fans that are obsessing over that line but I don't think it's going to be relevant in this series and I'm all for it!
@@E00700 I agree 100%. I think the only way Kenobi beats Vader is: 1. With help Or 2. Vader gets arrogant again Kenobi has a mean history of punking anyone foolish enough to taunt him lol
Perfect explanation. You saved this fight for me. I was genuinely worried about my favorite child hood character being done wrong. I was trying to explain it away to myself thinking maybe he had some light side left over and feelings for his brother Obi. But even that wasn't necessarily enough for me. Being careful definitely solidifies as good reasoning. He's still his pure Vader self right now.
This is so stupid, if he does wasn't Obi Wan to suffer as long as possible he would at the very least capture him to make sure he doesn't get away. He been looking for him for 10 years I don't think he would let Obi Wan get away like that. Dumb plot
"When I left you I was but the learner" is referring to when he left him as his student. It's still referring to him during ROTS. Remember Anakin was never a Master for the Jedi. He was bragging about how he's the Master now and Kenobi, his former teacher, is just a weak old man.
Agreed, I think they will fight again, but I think this quote from ANH is more tied to leaving the Jedi not to their final engagement before that scene in ANH. That gives the writers more room to work too. A second fight in this series could go in either's favor under that interpretation as long as they both survive.
I'm pretty sure that "When I left you I was but the learner" line is referencing the fact that he never made it to the rank of Master Jedi. When he took the Sith name Darth Vader and left the jedi order and being Obi-Wan's Apprentice .And now he is a master sith in episode IV.
1:36-1:41 The sound effects are on point. 6:24 I really liked this shot because it looks like a visual nod to the scene of Anakin igniting his lightsaber to take out the younglings in the Jedi Temple.
Hey man, Just wanted to say, you make my day with these videos. I love star wars and getting lost in it and your videos are so cool. Take care and have a great day. Keep up the good work.
Ben Kenobi: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him. Luke Skywalker: You mean it controls your actions? Ben Kenobi: Partially, but it also obeys your commands. Anakin was always strong, patient, and wise that’s why he lead the clone wars. Also Anakin was born a slave out of captivity, fought in wars in the empire, Lost both his past (mother) and his future wife and children. Anakin died where Vader lives and all Vader does is just do suicide missions waiting for someone to kill him. He has nothing but time and the force at his command. He will kill Obi when the time is necessary. His patience/faith in the force gave him this victory. And he proves it in the original trilogy. He is like Levi from Attack on Titan. He is short with fodder but takes his time with the main course.
Yea a little kid. Not nearly the opponent Obi Wan is. Especially considering he lost all his limbs and was burned to a crisp last time they fought. While he his Darth Vader, he lost a significant amount of his overall potential the day he lost to his master.
I think Vader wants to play with his food before he kills obi and once again it’s going to bite him in the ass unless they completely break with cannon. It’s also possible that Vader was really confused as to why obi sucked so bad and thought it might be a trap of some sort. You should absolutely question the writers, they DO NOT care about the lore or the deep and subtle aspects of any of the characters.
I think it was great, because in my eyes when he was standing there staring at Obi Wan, "letting" him flee from him, that was Anakin Skywalker fighting his way back, so Vader's mind was conflicting itself for that moment, deciding whether or not to continue.
I feel like the reason he backed off after seeing Kenobi recieve help from someone, is because he knows that he can hurt Kenobi more by hurting the people who are close to him than by just going after him alone.
I wonder what people wanted to see from Vader if they think this was timid. Vader was ficken scary and I loved it. Only thing that felt off about Vader was we did not hear the imperial march.
I felt that at first Vader was testing as you said with caution, then he was going slow to terrorize since kenobi was so weak. Then after the fire broke out either he was cautious because he didn’t know how many weee helping obi or it could still be a sudden fear reaction to the fire. Even in his armor the ptsd can still be very strong. Thanks for the vid.
I just realized something! At ep3 around 04:46 when Vader tells Reva: IS THAT UNDERSTOOD?! The word “That” is without filter, and its Haydens voice! Listen for it!
It's just sad seeing two former friends coming to blows, with one horrified that the other is alive and one wanting to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible on a man he once considered the closest person he had to a father.
I feel like the writers and the people who worked on Kenobi wanted a bit more suspense in that Vader scene where he ignites his saber. They may have wanted to create a more jarring or surprising tone to the scene, but that I just a theory.
I just felt he was holding back because of his disappointment. Imagine hating someone for years and when you finally find them, he's become so weak that it's not even a challenge.
Keep in mind Kenobi defeated Anakin so badly to the point of losing 3/4ths of his limbs along with a firey river of despair. I wouldn't be surprised if he was scared or worried about what Kenobi would do to him. He toys with Kenobi in the fight and the reason I feel like he lets him go is to make Kenobi feel paranoia. There's no way they make this scene their only fight in the show. I feel like he shall be much more aggressive and active towards a later fight.
There's no reason to change your mind. You're right. People just don't wanna admit when Disney does something right with Vader. He's more terrifying now in the Disney canon than he's ever been beforehand.
I wouldn’t call his actions “timid “. He did drag him through fire. I think he just wants Obi Wan to suffer and fear him. He let him go, but he knows the terror he brought to him.
It all makes sense. He underestimated Kenobi on Mustafar and lost, he overestimated Kenobi here and missed his chance to kill him, and he will underestimate him in their later fight and lose again. It adds a new dynamic to their relationship that I really like. Vader’s perception of Kenobi is always changing, and it’s rarely accurate.
The scene where he walked out of the darkness, only his lights glowing in the shadow......it was chilling. I felt they got everything about Vader so right. My butt cheeks were clenched the entire encounter. I don't think I've ever feared Vader like I did in this series. Rogue One came close but it was more awesome than scary. I think the "duel" was well done and very one sided as it should have been. Vader smashed Kenobi into the ground and had him nearly crawling to get away. I feel like a lot of people are nitpicking about the fight for the wrong reasons. If you want to see an actual duel between the two of them be patient before you criticize the direction the series took, please. There are 3 more episodes and I think more surprises before it's over. I say patience.
The fact that some people were pissed off at this scene because Vader was "very timid" just ruined my excitement for the scene, ot was cool, it was scary but people found a way to suit on it and ruin it for others. I think all of you expected something entirely different
@@janirobe this obi wan is far away from "ben" that he finally becomes in Ep. 4. Of course he is resentful and bitter and depressed after all happened to him. He lost his damn friend/brother, his family - mean the Jedi order, nearly everything expect of his duty to protect anakins children. Their only hope. So Im pretty sure, that this obi wan will mature and overcome his depression. Accept the truth that Anakin is lost. Even in the time when Yoda was training Luke, obi wan thought he needs to kill his father. Yoda and Obi wan were to closed minded, and never thought about it that Vader/anakin can be redeemed. Lukes writing in the sequels is really absolute horrible, because Luke was an very optimistic guy at the end of Return of the Jedi... anyway obi wan will become the "Ben" we know in EP4. I really hope, otherwise it would break G.Lucases vision.
I 100% agree with this take. No doubt about it, I watched the watch party; and I wanted to you take some time to really think about it. And once you did, it seemed like your mindset was similar to mine on Vader in this exact moment.
Unfortunately, "He's just being cautious" is incorrect. In all his 10 years of seeking revenge on Obi-Wan. The idea was never to just kill him. The plan all along was to make sure Obi-Wan was made aware of his might, to maim and torture Obi-Wan a much as he pleased before killing him, and, I can't prove this one but would wager a paycheck on it, have Obi-Wan admit out loud that he IS stronger than Obi-Wan. Completely within the arrogance, immaturity, and petulance of the true Anakin. He has learned nothing. But he has become stronger. We'll call this "Peak Vader". He rushed in when the cornered Obi-Wan, tortured and killed people ruthlessly to lure him out. Then proceeded to charge right after him when he fled. I'm POSITIVE the fear he induced in every being he faced only further increased the size of his ego and arrogance. That same ego and arrogance caused him pause and made him rethink his position... "This was too easy. This is not how I want to win. I want to beat Obi-Wan at his best." So he let him escape.
@@VinnyGuardino for real man I didn’t even wanna read it bro people take lore so fucking seriously like god help if Vader was able to find the fucking cure for cancer in the comics and mfs gonna be wanting that in the show
@@xeenoz2417 nah nah I’m enjoying Star Wars for real but I jus really get annoyed when u got people like the guy here complaining about any little thing
Vader is a very dramatic person. We’re talking about the guy who turned off all his suit lights and held his breath behind those Rebels in Rogue One just to scare the hell out of them. He loves the chase, and he loves the fear he evokes from his prey. He also only used one hand throughout the fight just as he did with Luke in Empire. He was definitely prodding his defenses, and he never went all out because he felt how weak Obi-Wan was. Also, I think Obi-Wan is going find out this hidden settlement is full of Jedi and Force sensitives running from the Enpire. Vader definitely wants Kenobi to lead him there.
Not to mention him feeling the need to do a 360 flip over Kenobi's head only to be cut down by him. When Vader could've simply just stepped on to the surface and continued fighting. But he wants to be flashy.
We're not even done with the show yet. For all you know his plan is to be revealed, or the next episode can pick right up from where we left off and show Vader having them followed back to find more sympathizers or attack Obi Wan soon after again. He changed his plans the second he realized other people were involved and he then fixated on them, it isn't something to "have a problem" with, it was purposeful. Have faith. Everyone on social media is jumping down this show's throat before it's even over and it's kind of getting exhausting. You HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION, he seemed fascinated once the game changed and he realized/saw that Kenobi had friends. That's where this is going, not that "he hesitated to not be so brash," they already gave you the clues in the episode. It's about him assessing Kenobi having allies. Were you watching the same episode? Yeah, dude, Vader was so "timid."
Yes, he is cautious but also, Kenobi is just a shadow of who he was. Imagine you are Vader and Obi Wan crippled you, you hate this person so much you want to break and destroy him. You have been sitting on that need for revenge for so long and then you find Kenobi and he is just pathetic. The person you wanted to destroy, you can't destroy because this person is long gone. I think Vader was disappointed and he found that torturing Kenobi didn't feel as satisfying as he hoped. He didn't get his revenge because he had nobody to break because Obi Wan was already broken. If you were ever in a similar situation you know what that feels like. All your hopes of get back are crushed just like that and now you have to keep sitting on your hatred with no place to exude it forever. You don't want to find the person who broke you broken, you want to find him the way he left you so you can be the one to break him.
@@StarWarsFan-tw2xc Thanks. That's what I would feel like at least. I immediately thought that's what it is when Vader just stared at him. It's just a theory though.
This exactly u are spot on. I don’t understand why most fans think Revenge of the Sith Obi-Wan is ever coming back. He can’t even let someone see him light his lightsaber in public without fear of the entire empire coming down on him. The dudes life mission is to protect the twins. That’s it.
If you remember from early on in revenge of the sith novel, it is stated that anakin actually almost preferred his cybernetic arm replacement for the one he lost in attack of the clones. Love what you do Theory keep being you my friend.
I started rewatching Rebels and in the second season Darth Vader says “ Such as Obi-Wan” and the Emperor says “ perhaps… if he lives “ . Im guessing Vader is going to beat Obi-Wan so bad that Vader thinks he’s dead in this second match up
There must be something else to it because by that logic he does not seem surprised to see Obi-Wan in A New Hope as if he knew that Obi-Wan was alive this whole time.
Wouldn't 10ish years have passed by that point? Could just be saying if he's still alive because they haven't heard of him since the events of Kenobi a decade ago idk
This can work only if the writers cared about canon of Star Wars. So far I don't see it in this show. Also found out that the writer did not watch Revenge of the sith. So doubt they watched Rebels. Not checking source material is a big red flag.
Two theories I may have: 1) Vader is more mature and thats why he took his time with Kenobi 2) Do you guys think Anakin my have stepped in for a split second and used the force to push Obi-Wan from the fire. Cause remember in Rebels, when Ahsoka damages Vader’s mask we see Anakin for second and he says Ahsoka’s name. And maybe thats why in the New Hope he says I was but the learner but now im the master. Idk just my thought, Imk what you guys think!!
I highly disagree about being cautious as well. Bro he was using one hand. When Kenobi ran away the first time, he just unignited his light saber and just looked ahead for a couple seconds. U can literally tell at this time he was thinking “ wow he sucks now” bro was running away. Timid ? Come on bro, he was burning obi wan in fire. I think ur right in ur own opinion but I think ur wrong on the Vader scenes except ur citizens video was spot on.
The line in Episode 4 can be considered an Anakin moment just like when he fought Dooku and claimed his powers have doubled. he was trying to weaken Kenobi's ego as well as he was doing to Dooku.
NGL I agree with a lot of what you said. Love the passion about Vader btw I feel like his character needs to be explored more I know Hayden talked about it recently but to be honest just seeing Vader on screen again makes me all the more excited so I can’t really knock the timidness of his scene. What he did to the villagers made up for it imo. How quickly he looked where Obi Wan was, how he picked him up and held him down with the force on that fire so he can feel the burns he did on Mustafar. I was satisfied I just hate the fact that it feels like these episodes fly-by too quickly 😂
I'm just going to go out and say it... I really wish they had only made Obi-Won and Vader cross-paths from a distance or being only steps behind each other... but not actually engage with each other and for sure not Vader seeing Obi-Won. This feels like fan-servicing to me having them pull out sabres with each other. I would have preferred a greater length of time between the last time the two saw each other again , so the lore can blend well with Episode 4. It just feels weird to me.. i unno.
Okay, no offense, but you are clearly sniffing some enamel. Having Vader under the Disney banner means we'll get some stuff watered down. That's a given. But the fact that they green lit Vader SNAPPING a kids neck and dragging Kenobi through fire...THATS NOT TIMID!
"anger, hate, fear, these are tools we use however when you lose control of your emotions they in turn will control you and you will be the tools and they the master" - Palpatine to Vader (prior to the Kenobi show taking place) I think Vader as much as he'd like to be a rabid dog against Kenobi, knows it'd be a fools errand even against a weaker Kenobi
Am I the only one that thought the confrontation was exactly how it should have gone? Vader wasn't being timid he was toying with Obi-Wan, plus a healthy dose of caution from the last time he went toe-to-toe with him.
Bruh it’s easy to see that’s exactly how it should have gone. People are creating issues and trying to explain away stuff that doesn’t need it. Very clear, very obvious that Vader is hunting him down like prey. You don’t rush anything when you’re hunting
I felt it came off more confident, with the Empire and Inquisitors, he seemed like he just was so sure of himself he didnt need to rush or chase him. He will catch him again, and he didnt feel like he had to rush. He didnt seem like he needed to prove himself to Kenobi this time like in ROTS.
Man that obi wan from rebels I wanted that obi wan here. So confident so in control so ready to protect the hope of the future luke. Especially how he interacted with maul where at first he was like let's just be on our separate ways to now I can't let you leave outta here alive with just his facial expression.
I absolutely did not get a “timid” vibe whatsoever. He seemed cool calm and collected maybe, but not timid. He seemed like he knew exactly what he was doing. A pretty scary and imposing presence.
This is the thing about Disney Star Wars - we have to pluck ideas out of the sky to satisfy our needs of what we want these characters to be like so we don’t depress ourselves and accept the fact they’ve done it all wrong.
Maybe.. not necessarily though. They did allow some real creators to give us Rogue One, the Mandalorian and a few other good stuffs. With some parts of the Disney shit, sure, I agree fully. They are trying to push Star Wars media to places, nay people it was never intended to be consumed by. In other parts we kind of need to let them fully tell their story first. Perhaps they are genuinely trying to give us a real REAL, Vader versus Obi wan story. Maybe?! It might be crap but what about the benefit of the doubt? Let's not get ahead of ourselves, is all I'm saying. I have some real gripes about some parts of the first couple of episodes, then again, episode 3 did give me some hope. Anyway, here's hoping.
It’s unfortunate that we have to put so much effort into explaining away plot holes in order to enjoy the show :/ Really hoping they give us an explanation that makes sense by the time the final episode comes out.
@@issiahsilva why would someone go through the effort of hunting someone/something for 10 years and when they finally find them repeatedly let them get away?
Timid - lacking in courage or self-confidence; lacking in boldness or determination Vader was ultra confident, bold, and determined. He was literally the opposite of timid. By definition Obi-Wan was the one that was timid. He was just toying with Obi-Wan. They were saying Anakin rivaled Yoda in Clones. In Revenge of the Sith, he was more powerful than Obi-Wan then. He was just overconfident and hot-headed. Now it's not even close, and that's even if Obi-Wan had been training. Vader was a lot of things. Cocky, petty, ruthless, imposing, terrifying...timid not in the slightest.
More aggressiveness - from the guy that set his old master on fire, snapped a child’s neck in the street, and scared the hell out of the audience. K man
That was all on point, but their actual confrontation with sabers was fucking pathetic. Watch that "Star Wars SC 38 Reimagined" video, that is what I expected from Vader's combat stance. Not a fight with pool noodles.
@@ycebotz Obi Wan’s first fight in like 10 years. SC 38 is awesome but Kenobi hasn’t touched a lightsaber in a decade. Of course he’s pathetic. That’s the point
There was part of me that was disappointed with Ben igniting his lightsaber. He had been refusing to use it until he came up against Vader. I kinda wanted Ben bringing up his lightsaber to be a huge cinematic event. A sign that the old Obi-Wan was back.
That obi wan is never coming back. That’s kinda the point of this series to me. To show what happened in the 18 years between revenge of Sith and New Hope. He can never be that obi wan again after everything that’s happened to him.
Very true because you can brobably see that he is pacient and he has a plan for Kenobi😎and for that I'm intreeged to see where it goes to.(maybe to fortress Inq.)And I'm also privileged and lucky to experience this at 12 because we may not see this again.Tho my favorite characters are in this soooo..💯
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I took it as Vader being disappointed with Obi-Wan. He’s festered in his hate for 10 years waiting for the opportunity to find and best Kenobi in combat, to show him just how much more powerful he’s become. Then he finally finds him and it turns out Obi-Wan Kenobi the great Jedi , his former master, is gone. Instead there’s only this scared weak old man ben. This plus the conflicting feelings and painful memories of seeing his old master and friend once again before him was enough to give Vader pause. He stares at Kenobi as he’s getting dragged away as he realizes all this and feels nothing but dissatisfied. This moment was supposed to be his greatest triumph and yet it’s all to easy for him. He wants old ben to get away and get stronger so he can fully enjoy his revenge against the Jedi master that took everything from him.
Vader wouldn’t be stopped from killing or harming kenobi just because he’s weak, he doesn’t care if it’s an equal fight or not because all he wants is revenge, if he found kenobi passed out on the street he’d torture or kill him, the writing is just bad, one second he says bring him to me but fire stops him and all of a sudden kenobi escapes
@@Capybara2240 Vaders reaction to seeing the people closest to Anakin have always been different from others.
He even did this with Ashoka in a different way for a moment after she broke his mask and told him she wasn't leaving him. He paused for a few moments before igniting his saber. This was 5-6 years after.
His mission was also to break through the veil of the dead to bring back Padme. Anakin has always existed beneath the surface. It just took the only thing he had left of Padme to bring Anakin back.
That’s exactly what I thought
@@Capybara2240 stick to making the same recycled "goofy ahh" content
@@Capybara2240 your wrong. This guy is right. Hes not full of blind rage and going to run and attack him on sight like a teen having a temper tantrum. Hes had ten years to plan and imagine. U can have rage and still kept composure. Hes the emperor's man. U cant be seen loosing ur mind in front of the troops. Hes grown. He knows kenobi got nowhere to really hide. He wants to inflict pain and fear into his as possible. Let's say someone did horrible things to ur loved one. U catch him. R u gonna dome him so hes done in a split second? Or r u gonna spend days or weeks doing it slowly. Maybe even let him run away so the guys gets that little bit of hope that he might be safe.
To me, Vader was just shocked when he saw how weak Kenobi has become. When kenobi runs away the first time without igniting his saber. Vader turns his saber off and just looks shocked to me. Like he was thinking "This is what I get? I waited 10 years for the great Kenobi to just run like a coward?"
This is exactly what I thought . It was the first thing I thought actually. I’m very surprised he hasn’t mentioned it at all. I think that would be the reaction to anyone in this situation for anything really. Example ; if I was considered the fastest sprinter ever and before I go to showcase that , I lose to my coach; finally 10 years later I get a chance at redemption and show up and the person I lost to has a broken foot, I’m not gonna want to race his ass. I need him to heal before I beat him. Only then will it prove I’m the strongest
Agree. I think he was disappointed. He wanted a real fight. Timid is not what I took away from it.
Exactly
I understand the shock seeing weak people.
When i fought from September 1980 to the end of 95.
So many were so weak, so badly trained..specially those light contact tournaments. I made them pad for their weakness.
I earned a nicname...Butcher..I chopped most down who stood before me.
Even at 57, specially these days no one trains ro actually hurt...
I always promised ...I will break ribs and bones..and you head gear..I can get through it..
I fought we all rage and hate but I could turn it on and off...absolute control...
57 and going to martial arts places..the only though guys are bjj people..no fesr.
@@Docthewrench bjj is nothing in a street fight though :/
I initially would've wanted a more aggressive Vader BUT he didnt find Kenobi hence his reaction. He found old man Ben, not Jedi Master Obi Wan
I agree - Vader wants to beat Obi-Wan at his best and when he realized how weak and out of balance with the Force he was, he was disappointed.
This!
This is something I don't understand how people don't get. Vader felt Obi's weakness and was toying and torturing him. It was a great scene.
@@shawnpinkney4455 Well, I wouldn't say toying with him. Vader doesn't toy. This was a situation where he wanted a battle to beat him down in every way possible. But he saw Obi was no more so now it's all about making him suffer. Suffer for a long period. It's not toying. It's revenge served up cold, over and over.
@@greezythumb First great name. Lol. You spell yours the right way. 2nd. There is a great video by star wars theory that explains what i said. Canonically Vader uses form V. It's a aggressive form of saber dueling. But in other Cannon battles Vader will hold back due to being aware that's how he lost before. Vader can go hard in the paint but fighting other jedi will take his time and be surgical and sadistic when calls for. I've read too much Vader lore to know he doesn't just run through all his victims. If I know that then so do the writers. Go watch that video id u dis agree. You can not like the scene, that your right but its not the fault of the writers or the script as Vader is KNOWN for doing that. Slow motion, deliberate strikes. Thats why it was in this scene
I think “when I left you” still refers to his apprenticeship of Obi wan…while it is technically Vader talking, Anakin I feel is talking to Obi wan there…as mentioned by Hayden, Vader is always in conflict
That's what I got from what he said in ANH as well. When he left Kenobi as his master for Palpatine, he was just a learner of the force
That’s how I take it too, but it could also be taken as from when Vader last left Obi-Wan in their last meeting before ANH-which we will hopefully see in the last episode of Obi-Wan-he was the learner, but not under Kenobi, but under Sidious, because during this time, Vader is I think still very much learning the ways of the Dark Side from
Sidious as we are shown in the comics as well as learning how to do everything he could do before when he was still mostly human again and learning to slowly get used to the suit, even though I don’t think he ever does get used to the suit 100%, but I could be wrong, and once he learns everything I just mentioned and sees Obi-Wan again in ANH, he is at that time the Master because by that point in time, Darth Vader feels he can take on the Emperor and overthrow him as he did try once before, but failed (comics)but he is also in his own way a master of the Dark Side and of his suit, the pain it causes him aside.
@@brundantheknighttemplar That's a good point of view for sure, I like it.
I wouldn't say he was timid at all. He sensed Obi-Wan's fear, and made an example of the innocents in the village to perpetuate that fear. Then he easily found him a few times and sparred with him a little to see what his level was.
Then! When he had enough of messing around he completely dominated Kenobi by force choking him and dragging him through the fire. That moment when the music heightens and he tips the flammable rock or whatever onto the dirt was class. So purposeful. He just upped the ante and got the job done it was awesome. A bit like me in Battlefront 2 playing Hs v Vs haha. Sussing your opponent out then bam you combo the fucker. Im joking, I have like 4 level 400 characters but I'm still shit :D
This might sound daft but apart from blowing up Alderan (told you this would sound daft) I never really saw much in the classic trilogy that made Vader look that evil. Even with the destruction of Alderan you could argue it was more Tarkin's doing.
For me, ROTS when he kills the younglings, slaying the rebels in RO and snapping an innocent villagers neck is the baddest things we've seen from Vader ever. And don't worry theory, I'm pretty sure he's gonna do some more nasty, evil shit before the series ends
Destroying Alderaan was Tarkin's doing. Vader simply didn't argue with it. But we have seen him being, especially when he murder his own subordinates, even the ones who apologized for their shortcomings.
Thank fuck there’s actually someone out here with some sense. Vader hasn’t ever done anything majorly evil other than just kill some guys for being in his way. He’s the emperor’s henchman and nothing else. He’s just a walking tank meant to threaten people and kill them if necessary. He’s choked a few people and killed a few people and that’s it. I really don’t understand why people expect more than what they are used to already. People are acting like Vader has a whole list of evil things he’s done when in fact he’s just killed a few people and that’s it.
Gotta be honest, I didn't think he was timid at all. I thought he was extremely imposing. He's slow walking after Obi-Wan knowing full well that he's got nowhere to escape to. When he does reach him, his strikes are knocking Obi-Wan to the ground. He doesn't even grip the blade with two hands and he's still pushing Obi-Wan's blade and body back, despite Obi-Wan using both hands and all his strength. Then of course he force pushes him, force chokes him and drags him through the flames. All badass.
Agreed. Strange choice of title. I know some fans want him to fly over the flames and chop Kenobi in two because that would be realistic, but this isn't realism, it's a work of fiction and it has to last more than one episode. Clearly it is meant to show that Vader is toying with him. And for timidness Vader has Kenobi suspended in the air choking him, and throws him into fire and holds him there, before force pushing him out after a mere light roasting, ordering his stormtroopers to go then go fetch.
Agreed that's how I read it.
No one actively escalating a fight is timid. The word is being used in a relative sense, however, considering that people who know Vader know just how aggressive he can be, and how much Kenobi meant to him. He's attacked thieves with more ferocity than he used with Obi Wan. Though I don't yet know if this will have a good explanation, it can't be denied that the relative lack of emotion and eagerness in Vader during that fight doesn't match that of Vader from right after Revenge of the Sith.
Totally agreed. Vader's Hardcore in this ep. He chokes a couple people before force-snapping a kid's neck, then smacks Kenobi around for awhile, One-Handed, THEN lights him on fuckin' fire! You scare me, poster! Because if that's your idea of timid....:D
@Devin Brice the difference from ROTS is that he's in a heavy metal suit this time, and also he's not facing random mooks like in Rogue One. The man he's facing wasn't his average Jedi either, if the last time Vader had lost his limbs due to his over aggressiveness and giving into emotions, this time could easily be his head. Vader also knew he had become weaker after being burned in the previous fight, he could never be strong like ROTS Anakin, plus he had heard from Reva that Obi Wan had killed the Grand Inquisitor. He had every rightful reason to be extra wary of Obi Wan and not act impulsively.
He said to Obi-Wan "Your suffering is only beginning" meaning that he did not intend to fully unleash his powers on Obi-Wan. He could of easily killed Obi-Wan but he wants to take his time with him and get his revenge on him. Plus I think he is still a little conflicted and potentially a little shocked that he actually found his master after all these years
I also think vader was very disappointed that the obi wan who defeated him at mustafar is now a emotionally broken shadow of his former self that has allowed his abilities to atrophy away so much from dissuse. Vader wanted an epic conformation with the former master who bested him but instead found a scared broken old man who has allowed himself to become very out of tune with the force to the point of being almost defenseless and this robbed vader of all the satisfaction he was expecting to have upon reuniting with obiwan.
Exactly bro. It's not complicated.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm a d***hebag that relishes in doing this
The word you're looking for is "could've" not "could of"
"could've" is a contraction of "could have"
"could of" doesn't grammatically make sense
People who says he aint type of slow killer and always kill fast , do his job fast
Dont know vader facing kenobi this time
So it make some exceptions
@@ScriptsE99 Irritates the SHIT out of me, too. Lol
I don’t know about timid, the man murdered like 4 people and then brought mustafar to Kenobi. Just to draw out the revenge a little longer.
Facts lol "timid"
He is probably more scared of Kenobi than those people
Yeah that timid argument really bothers me. He snapped a child’s neck, dragged a woman to her death, but not killing his former master is “timid”. Give me a break
@@_____A660 he is definitely not scared of Kenobi what are u even saying?
Well then again, those people are harmless. They can't save themselves. But what if it's the fact that Vader didn't know if Obi-Wan stayed in shape or not?
When Vader says "when I left you", he may not have been referring to the literal last time they met, but maybe instead to when he 'left' Kenobi in terms of turning away from him and the Jedi Order.
That's literally the only way I've ever thought of that, he would've said when we last met if he was referring to the last time they fought instead of saying when I left you
Legends stated that
I don’t think he was timid, I think he was expecting one Obi and got someone completely different. Expecting the former Obi he would obviously be on guard and seeing this one probably confused him and destroying him wouldn’t give him the satisfaction he is looking for. Remember he want to show he is the most powerful and you can’t get that by killing someone that’s less than a equal rival.
He’s just toying with Kenobi. Could possibly be hesitant about going all out on his former master because seeing Kenobi again after all this time could be quite traumatizing for Vader despite his hatred for him🤷♂️
I think it's moreso him not going all out because it's not worth it rn with Kenobi in his current state.
@@dixonb.tweenerlegs4225 Like he wants to fight him at his peak more or less right?
@@dixonb.tweenerlegs4225 Also a good possibility
@@SithEnthusiast12 Yes. Because in episode 3, Vader wanted to prove he was more powerful than OB1. Or any other Jedi. Hence why he felt the need to be extra and do a 360 spin over Kenobi's head only to get cut down. He needs to upstage OB1, but it wouldn't really mean much if he did it against Hobo wan Kenobi and not the real Obi-Wan. Like Vegeta wanting to beat Goku at his peak.
I think he just wants to torture Kenobi a bit and make him suffer like he did. I think the perfect revenge on someone is making them suffer instead of just killing them.
Vader must have some plan for Obi-Wan. That's why he didn't want to kill or torture longer him in last episode. I don't blame screenwriters. I just hope it won't be the only duel between Vader and Obi-Wan. For me episode 3 of Kenobi is fantastic!
what do you think of my theory?
I feel people are going about this in the wrong way. What they don’t seem to understand, is that Obi-Wan is not ready for this sort of confrontation.
He JUST found out that Vader was still alive, he’s been in exile for 10 years, the nightmare that he’s been having for 10 years it’s now back and even worse than before.
It was extremely traumatic what happened in revenge of the Sith, and now out of nowhere he’s confronted with this again.
What is happening here, is that Obi-Wan is not the same Obi-Wan, he too suffered just like Vader did. And it has broken him. Vader was shocked to see this.
Think about it, compare their fight in revenge of the Sith, or just any behavior that Obi-Wan showed in the past, and compare him to now.
The very shock at seeing his former master in this state is what held him back, because this dragon that he felt he needed to slay from his past, was no dragon, it was just a ghost. And I think that genuinely threw Vader off.
It sucks because we already know if Vader has a plan isn't going to work. Obi-Wan is just chilling in episode 4.
I just want to say I love your Messi highlight videos, it is cool to see you on Star Wars Theory lol
Your hustles are as badly thought out as the show was. I don't need to WONDER what happens to Obi Wan and Vader. Both are already dead. This is a FLASH BACK. All these hustles, that we don't know, we have to wait and see, NO WE DON'T.
They are both already dead. Vader and Obi Wan had the same motivation. Anakin was not truly dead. The good was still alive in Vader. Vader was a victim of the prophecy, the emperor, Quai Gon dying, his mother being murdered. Vader wants to be SAVED by Obi Wan. Vader is still the learner. Obi Wan is still his master. Vader wants to be rescued. All already happened.
The writers dropped the ball and the show is all wrong and a mess. You can stop lying about it.
He was absolutely not timid. He is making obi wan feel his pain and isn’t done with him he let obi wan go because he wants him to feel true fear and hopelessness he wants to break him
Disney writers already made him a broken coward though so.
@@claykeough7898 This "broken coward" is carrying the guilt of letting the chosen one fall to the dark side resulting in the destruction of his own order, the birth of the Empire and the deaths that followed. What the fuck do you people expect
@@claykeough7898 Yes, there would be no story if he was still RotS level, except contrary to what Vader is plotting, Obi Wan is going to be reinvigorated by this defeat, and I imagine once he connects with Qui Gon he will be insanely powerful in the force again.
@@claykeough7898 how is the supposed to not be broken when he literally lost his master, entire Jedi Order, his lover, and ultimately his brother (Anakin). He lost everything. Some really backward thinking you got.
Exactly how I read it. He obviously let him go. He said your only beginning to feel suffering and pain. He wants drag it out make him feel as he has. Makes total sense to me
I didn’t feel he was THAT timid. I liked how it looked like he was stalking his prey then unleashed a bit of a barrage without needing to go all out.
And about Obi-Wan, of course he would eventually become the guy who beat Maul in 3 moves.
When Vader said “left you” he could have ment left to join the dark and he was still a learner in his mind and in a new hope he is now the master, he might not be mentioning the fights in between
Thats exactly what i thought the whole time lmao
I don’t think he was timid at all actually. He was literally snapping innocent peoples necks and dragging them through the streets, along with choking them. And then he frickin dragged Kenobi into a fire. I thought Vader was actually super cool in this episode
Cool because he was acting like Kylo Ren? Pfft. Not my Vader.
Right. He was vile and calculating in episode 3. I just don’t get how anyone could think he was cautious or timid.
Def not timid. Either he actively decided to prolong Obi's suffering, or it's a personal emotional struggle. Either he has this perfect idea of killing Obi Wan in his mind, and ONLY wants it to happen in one certain way without any outside interference, or he's conflicted about it from a light side/dark side place. Personally, I relate it to how when it comes to relationships, often the thrill of getting someone to fall for you is more stimulating than actually being in a relationship with the person. Vader is thrilled by and addicted to the chase of Obi Wan and making him suffer, but once he actually gets to KILL him, it feels underwhelming and not nearly as exciting as being able to see his scared face and threaten everything he's trying to protect. That's how I received it at least.
@@Jorlaxe I don’t remember Kylo ren snapping peoples necks and dragging people in fire 😂
@@JeremyCoolDude that’s all well and good but it was not communicated to the audience, hence so many are confused, what’s the more likely scenario? The writing is just bad and Obi Wan gets away so we can get another fight later in the show, the getaway scene was just lazily written and fans have noticed, still some good things in the show though.
Vader gazing at Kenobi when he saw the droid rescuing him.The fire in his lenses.All I can think of is the conflict within him.He probably feels he waited so long to battle Kenobi.The duel didn't meet his expectation.He feels stunned how pathetic and weak his former master is.We humans would do anything to get what we desire when we finally do we are a lit bit let down or conflicted.
He's just toying with Kenobi, looked pretty simple to me. And I trust this isn't the final fight so there's going to be a time when both Vader and Obi-wan are going to be at full strength. At least I hope
I mean Obi Wan has to kind of beat him to make the line "last we met I was once the learner"
@@janirobe it's "When I left you I was but the learner, now I am the master." I assume that means when he left obi and the Jedi order
concept art from the show confirms another fight on mustafar
@@liftedmarco4976 not likely, since when he left the Jedi order he was STILL a learner, just learning under someone else. If you've seen the prequels you already know that line makes no sense, so this second fight we're gonna see he'll probably get his ass handed to him and we will PROBABLY see at least a holo of Palpatine lambasting Vader with some "much to learn speech, making his line in ANH make more sense 🤷♂️
Or I have too much faith in the writers. Not sure yet.
^^^
Darth Vader showed up to fight the guy that disfigured him with 10 years MORE experience. He found someone who was broken by the experience and did not nurture any of those skills. When he realized this, he decided that killing him would have felt like killing the civilians he had just killed... That was the thought we saw him have, and that's why he walked away.
I feel as if Vader was testing Obi-Wan’s strength. Then when he said “the years have made you weak” he realised that was true. It wasn’t just an insult. So he held back and toyed with Obi-Wan. In doing so he felt a tremendous amount of joy and pride to make a joke out of his former master while also feeling a sense of dissatisfaction in the fact that he is facing a shallow version of Kenobi in his prime.
I don't know why people keep calling Vader 'timid'. The guy literally just killed random villagers just to draw Obi-Wan out and proceeded to pretty much torture him afterwards. If anything, I found Vader to be more timid in the entirety of A New Hope than in one episode of Kenobi.
Honestly it’s only theory calling him timid, love him to death but I believe he’s wrong about this one.
Many expected vader to lose his shit on kenobi. Not be calculating and cautious. Shows his growth as a sith.
Vader was like a child in a new hope, the man prone to fits of anger and tantrums. In kenobi Vader reminded me of Jason or another serial killer
@@panamasurfer2013 He’s very wrong about this lol, he was far from timid
@@Cyrus-rodn45 anger and tantrums?... Are you confusing him with Kylo Ren????
He wasn’t timid. Remember, the emperor told him to focus on the big picture. Patience is the key for the Sith. I feel he learned a great deal. He saw how weak Kenobi is.
I agree, what do you think of my theory?
@@scotianforocean2351 what is your theory?
I don't feel Vader really cares about what the emperor wants. After all, Vader had been scheming against ol Paps even before he lost the high ground.
The answer is in Vader'e own words... "Your pain has only begun"
It's all about making Kenobi suffer just as he did.
@@greezythumb yeah. I agree. After he found out he lied to him about Padme, he really didn’t care anymore.
I think they got him right, especially if they’re going down the whole conflict route as the way he delivered some of the mines such as “you should’ve killed me when you had the chance” was a very anakin thing to say. If you think back to the clone wars anakin says something similar to Dooku “you should’ve quit whilst you were still alive”. Once vader realised Kenobi wasn’t the man who left him for dead on mustafar I think he started pushing to see how much he could get away with in the duel. I also think he let him get away to mentally break him as there’s a rumoured Leak about him going to Jabeen and an killing people so potentially he’ll want to showcase his full power to put even more fear into kenobi. However it’s just a thought
Ten years prior Vader was acting on raw emotion and ten years gave him time to process and ten years later still pissed at Kenobi but in a calm anger demeanor which makes him at the most dangerous. Vader probably wanted him to suffer in a slow burn way and but he probably thought it wasn't worth it and let Kenobi run until he comes back ready to fight and that will be a 3rd match.
I honestly can never imagine Vader being afraid at all, I would imagine him being so furious just seeing Obi Wan that he wouldn’t even think that logically, I get letting him get away to kind of savor the revenge or let Obi Wan get back to normal but Vader is one of the most terrifying villains ever and I wish they would just show that a lil better. Either way I appreciate the content and I guess we’ll have the answers soon… hopefully 🙏
Yeah timid is the absolute wrong word to use here. Timid is a synonym for cowardly. Vader was not being cowardly in any way but I get what I think you actually mean. He was very reserved and cautious and wasn't going all out which I think fits into the nature of this fight.
Yeah I agree. I get what theory was saying but “timid” is the exact opposite of what I came away from this episode thinking of Vader. He was ruthless and unhinged after finding out the whereabouts of the man he wants to exact the ultimate revenge on. He murdered civilians to bait him out, stalked Kenobi like a predator to prey before even clashing sabers and then proceeded to burn him alive (you know he had been thinking about that). He clearly wasn’t going all out. He was dueling with one hand. He had SEVERAL chances to kill him if he really wanted to end it then and there but that wouldn’t be satisfying. He wants the ultimate revenge. I guess that being the objective of this fight was lost on people and that’s understandable. It’s been debated all week. I just wasn’t as personally bugged because that’s what I understood the fight to be. Curious and excited to see what Vader is like on the next encounter. I assume it’s going to be all out and everything we’d hope for.
Calculated, not timid
Yea idk what theory and the rest of the fans are smoking to be calling Vader timid lol
@@aaronmoyer4722 exactly
@@majickpancake3775 facts
When Vader ignites his Sabre it’s framed in a mirror image of when he ignited it to kill the younglings, giving Obi Wan the extra fear for Leia as he knows Vader has no problem killing children, and why’s he led Vader away from her.
Edit *short on my channel shows it*
@@ExpectinSomeADifferentAlias the scene was more for us, to relate the scenes so we realise Obi Wan is thinking of Leia, we the viewer already know that Obi-wan knows Vader murdered younglings, it’s cinematic poetry for the viewer.
Interesting theory but I doubt the writers came up with that considering the poor writing and creativity displayed thus far
I made a short on my channel to show the photos side by side.
Have to agree with some of the comments. I did not think it was anything resembling timid. To your point, he's probably over that vengeful surge of rage he initially felt and wanted to show his old master just how secure/confident/masterful he had become in his own abilities and saw no need to exhibit any over-aggression/recklessness knowing he was in full control.
I think the fact we're able to have such deep conversations about literally every aspect of Kenobi and Vader's interactions show they're actually doing a really good job. I don't think it's poor writing at all.
They know what they're doing having Vader silently look on in the flames as Kenobi is rescued. They know we'll talk about every aspect and angle of that decision for days on end.
This show is tying in classic, prequel and sequel trilogy as tight as they can. Its clear to see and Im grateful.
Last thing Ill say is that with Hayden and Ewan around I feel its in safe hands and they wont allow the fans to feel fucked over. I dont think they would have come back otherwise.
just found out Ewan is executive producer as well. It couldn't be in safer hands IMO.
That's not to say I haven't rolled my eyes once or twice during the series! Obi-Wan telling Bail Organa to 'find someone else' is so un Obi-Wan.
But its a tv show at the end of the day, our high expectations as true fans can be our undoing at times.
I really like how you have reminded us of Kenobi vs. Maul. It gives me confidence that Kenobi will regain his Strength again.
I mean come on… this is the guy who also killed Gievous.
I won’t be surprised if he defeats Vader in the last episode or next season.
I don't think he will beat Vader. I think they will have a draw and eventually Vader will become far more preoccupied with the Deathstar and the stolen plans/the Rebels. More or less putting Obi-Wan on the back burner until Vader kills him in A New Hope. I don't know if they will address this but Vader didn't seem surprised to see Obi-Wan in A New Hope.
@@zacm9747 Vader existed for only two things after he realised Palpatine lied to him:
1. To resurrect Padme
2. Find Obi Wan.
The inquisitors were solely created to hunt and kill Jedi. The ultimate hope for Vader was that Obi Wan would be found by them. Vaders hesitation in episode 3 showed that Anakin had matured (remember what Duku did to him when he under estimated him? Remember what Obi Wan did to him when he again under estimate him.
Can’t wait for the story to unfold. THANKS FOR YOUR COMMENT
He’s trying to torture obi wan
he let him go because he knows obi wan is going to live in fear and the build up to death is worse then the death itself from vaders POV
I don't have an eating disorder
Also he left Kenobi which matches up with the line A New Hope. I'm guessing we will see Vader be the learner in their second duel cause he learned that he should of killed Kenobi the first time around when he had the chance instead of toying with him which caused Kenobi to become the Ben Kenobi we see in ANH.
New Rockstars easily explained it instead of critiquing it, like the wanna be movie director SWT. Almost as if he forgot how to do breakdowns without sharing his uncared for opinions on scenes he didnt understand off the rip.
Mental gymnastics for bad writing
Lame af, that's just an excuse. If Darth Vader was more aggressive against obi-wan, swinging hard af, throwing shit at him with the force, force pushing him, literally NOBODY would complain.
Hes like a predator stalking his prey he wants kenobi to suffer
He wants he's suffering to be slow painfull
Is it not easier to do that when your prey is in your custody and cannot escape?
@@thesithwillriseagain7397 hmmm true
Could the “When I left you…” quote just be referring to when Anakin left Kenobi to become Vader? I feel like Vader is far too powerful at this point for Kenobi to overcome, but at the very least (and obviously) survive. I think the next time they duke it out will end up in another stalemate, which at this point Kenobi realizes Anakin is truly lost.
that's also how I interpret the line. I also think that Kenobi wouldn't let him live again (assuming he wins) so there would have to be some random reason that prevents him from killing Vader
@@E00700 It's very possible he beats Vader and still can't finish him off because he see's Anakin...or sense some kind of light in him...or doesn't strike him down because he won't do it out of rage....as he has to much love for Anakin the person to let himself do it, no matter what he has become.
Yes this! I interpret that line to do with ROTS. The originals were written a very long time ago and the story has only further developed and progressed. I'm sorry to all the original fans that are obsessing over that line but I don't think it's going to be relevant in this series and I'm all for it!
@@E00700 I agree 100%. I think the only way Kenobi beats Vader is:
1. With help
Or
2. Vader gets arrogant again
Kenobi has a mean history of punking anyone foolish enough to taunt him lol
@@maxswofford2959 Obi-Wan "Troll master" Kenobi
Honestly, I was expecting something more like the "Star Wars SC 38 Reimagined" from FXitinPost
i wish
Perfect explanation. You saved this fight for me. I was genuinely worried about my favorite child hood character being done wrong. I was trying to explain it away to myself thinking maybe he had some light side left over and feelings for his brother Obi. But even that wasn't necessarily enough for me. Being careful definitely solidifies as good reasoning. He's still his pure Vader self right now.
He wants Obi Wan to suffer as long as possible.
Yes in the non flammable fire 🤣
This is so stupid, if he does wasn't Obi Wan to suffer as long as possible he would at the very least capture him to make sure he doesn't get away. He been looking for him for 10 years I don't think he would let Obi Wan get away like that. Dumb plot
finally, an honest fan who isn't a professional mental gymnast
"When I left you I was but the learner" is referring to when he left him as his student. It's still referring to him during ROTS. Remember Anakin was never a Master for the Jedi. He was bragging about how he's the Master now and Kenobi, his former teacher, is just a weak old man.
Well said
Agreed, I think they will fight again, but I think this quote from ANH is more tied to leaving the Jedi not to their final engagement before that scene in ANH. That gives the writers more room to work too. A second fight in this series could go in either's favor under that interpretation as long as they both survive.
@@90thomasmercer true. it'll be a tie somehow
I totally agree. I feel like Star Wars theory is putting so much pressure on that one line and when I heard it I was thinking the same way as u
@@5.kc.5 Nah Obi Wan beats him.
I'm pretty sure that "When I left you I was but the learner" line is referencing the fact that he never made it to the rank of Master Jedi. When he took the Sith name Darth Vader and left the jedi order and being Obi-Wan's Apprentice .And now he is a master sith in episode IV.
1:36-1:41 The sound effects are on point.
6:24 I really liked this shot because it looks like a visual nod to the scene of Anakin igniting his lightsaber to take out the younglings in the Jedi Temple.
Hey man,
Just wanted to say, you make my day with these videos. I love star wars and getting lost in it and your videos are so cool. Take care and have a great day. Keep up the good work.
Ben Kenobi: Remember, a Jedi can feel the Force flowing through him.
Luke Skywalker: You mean it controls your actions?
Ben Kenobi: Partially, but it also obeys your commands.
Anakin was always strong, patient, and wise that’s why he lead the clone wars. Also Anakin was born a slave out of captivity, fought in wars in the empire, Lost both his past (mother) and his future wife and children. Anakin died where Vader lives and all Vader does is just do suicide missions waiting for someone to kill him.
He has nothing but time and the force at his command. He will kill Obi when the time is necessary. His patience/faith in the force gave him this victory. And he proves it in the original trilogy. He is like Levi from Attack on Titan. He is short with fodder but takes his time with the main course.
Vader was literally the opposite of timid imo. The man brakes a kids neck on entrance
Yea a little kid. Not nearly the opponent Obi Wan is. Especially considering he lost all his limbs and was burned to a crisp last time they fought. While he his Darth Vader, he lost a significant amount of his overall potential the day he lost to his master.
That means nothing to vader, it would be like you crushing an ant.
I think Vader wants to play with his food before he kills obi and once again it’s going to bite him in the ass unless they completely break with cannon. It’s also possible that Vader was really confused as to why obi sucked so bad and thought it might be a trap of some sort. You should absolutely question the writers, they DO NOT care about the lore or the deep and subtle aspects of any of the characters.
I think it was great, because in my eyes when he was standing there staring at Obi Wan, "letting" him flee from him, that was Anakin Skywalker fighting his way back, so Vader's mind was conflicting itself for that moment, deciding whether or not to continue.
My brother in Christ you are killing it! Years ago I was just a casual fan but over the past few years you’ve made me a super fan. Keep it up!
I feel like the reason he backed off after seeing Kenobi recieve help from someone, is because he knows that he can hurt Kenobi more by hurting the people who are close to him than by just going after him alone.
Hey Theory thank you for everything you do with all you’re hard work.
Been here since 75k :)
Timid? What the hell? He snapped a kids neck. He was so far from timid
Ikr? I genuinely can't see how anyone can think vader was timid. I was actually suprised by how much he was lashing out against the town people
I wonder what people wanted to see from Vader if they think this was timid. Vader was ficken scary and I loved it. Only thing that felt off about Vader was we did not hear the imperial march.
I felt that at first Vader was testing as you said with caution, then he was going slow to terrorize since kenobi was so weak. Then after the fire broke out either he was cautious because he didn’t know how many weee helping obi or it could still be a sudden fear reaction to the fire. Even in his armor the ptsd can still be very strong. Thanks for the vid.
I just realized something! At ep3 around 04:46 when Vader tells Reva: IS THAT UNDERSTOOD?! The word “That” is without filter, and its Haydens voice! Listen for it!
It's just sad seeing two former friends coming to blows, with one horrified that the other is alive and one wanting to inflict as much pain and suffering as possible on a man he once considered the closest person he had to a father.
I feel like the writers and the people who worked on Kenobi wanted a bit more suspense in that Vader scene where he ignites his saber. They may have wanted to create a more jarring or surprising tone to the scene, but that I just a theory.
He’s a bit shy, he hasn’t seen Kenobi in a while
He was blushing under his helmet after seeing his senpai for the first time in a decade. He wanted to make a good impression.
He slaughtered innocent villagers, caused his old master to run in fear and then burnt him alive...are we watching the same show?
I just felt he was holding back because of his disappointment. Imagine hating someone for years and when you finally find them, he's become so weak that it's not even a challenge.
Keep in mind Kenobi defeated Anakin so badly to the point of losing 3/4ths of his limbs along with a firey river of despair. I wouldn't be surprised if he was scared or worried about what Kenobi would do to him. He toys with Kenobi in the fight and the reason I feel like he lets him go is to make Kenobi feel paranoia. There's no way they make this scene their only fight in the show. I feel like he shall be much more aggressive and active towards a later fight.
Vader was just as badass in this episode as he was in Rogue One nothing will change my mind
There's no reason to change your mind. You're right. People just don't wanna admit when Disney does something right with Vader. He's more terrifying now in the Disney canon than he's ever been beforehand.
I think he was more badass in Rouge One. Here Vader was scary and I loved it. Definitely not timid though lol. I do not see how Vader was timid
Obi-Wan has been out of practice for 10 years, and he's in emotion turmoil which further throws him off his game.
I think you're the only RUclipsr who had an issue with his timidness. Glad you're open to hearing others opinions.
I wouldn’t call his actions “timid “. He did drag him through fire. I think he just wants Obi Wan to suffer and fear him. He let him go, but he knows the terror he brought to him.
It all makes sense. He underestimated Kenobi on Mustafar and lost, he overestimated Kenobi here and missed his chance to kill him, and he will underestimate him in their later fight and lose again. It adds a new dynamic to their relationship that I really like. Vader’s perception of Kenobi is always changing, and it’s rarely accurate.
Makes a lot of sense
The scene where he walked out of the darkness, only his lights glowing in the shadow......it was chilling. I felt they got everything about Vader so right.
My butt cheeks were clenched the entire encounter. I don't think I've ever feared Vader like I did in this series. Rogue One came close but it was more awesome than scary.
I think the "duel" was well done and very one sided as it should have been. Vader smashed Kenobi into the ground and had him nearly crawling to get away.
I feel like a lot of people are nitpicking about the fight for the wrong reasons. If you want to see an actual duel between the two of them be patient before you criticize the direction the series took, please.
There are 3 more episodes and I think more surprises before it's over.
I say patience.
The fact that some people were pissed off at this scene because Vader was "very timid" just ruined my excitement for the scene, ot was cool, it was scary but people found a way to suit on it and ruin it for others. I think all of you expected something entirely different
Dont listen to everbody else
Yeah maybe we were expecting to see a more competent Obi Wan not a sequel Luke. How is this Obi Wan supposed to even train luke?
@@janirobe this obi wan is far away from "ben" that he finally becomes in Ep. 4. Of course he is resentful and bitter and depressed after all happened to him. He lost his damn friend/brother, his family - mean the Jedi order, nearly everything expect of his duty to protect anakins children. Their only hope. So Im pretty sure, that this obi wan will mature and overcome his depression. Accept the truth that Anakin is lost. Even in the time when Yoda was training Luke, obi wan thought he needs to kill his father. Yoda and Obi wan were to closed minded, and never thought about it that Vader/anakin can be redeemed. Lukes writing in the sequels is really absolute horrible, because Luke was an very optimistic guy at the end of Return of the Jedi... anyway obi wan will become the "Ben" we know in EP4. I really hope, otherwise it would break G.Lucases vision.
What an incredible episode. You nailed it at the end of the video.
I 100% agree with this take. No doubt about it, I watched the watch party; and I wanted to you take some time to really think about it. And once you did, it seemed like your mindset was similar to mine on Vader in this exact moment.
Unfortunately, "He's just being cautious" is incorrect. In all his 10 years of seeking revenge on Obi-Wan. The idea was never to just kill him. The plan all along was to make sure Obi-Wan was made aware of his might, to maim and torture Obi-Wan a much as he pleased before killing him, and, I can't prove this one but would wager a paycheck on it, have Obi-Wan admit out loud that he IS stronger than Obi-Wan. Completely within the arrogance, immaturity, and petulance of the true Anakin. He has learned nothing. But he has become stronger. We'll call this "Peak Vader". He rushed in when the cornered Obi-Wan, tortured and killed people ruthlessly to lure him out. Then proceeded to charge right after him when he fled. I'm POSITIVE the fear he induced in every being he faced only further increased the size of his ego and arrogance. That same ego and arrogance caused him pause and made him rethink his position...
"This was too easy. This is not how I want to win. I want to beat Obi-Wan at his best." So he let him escape.
Jesus your one of those “fans”
@@jackboy2413 Cringed reading this dudes comment lol
@@VinnyGuardino for real man I didn’t even wanna read it bro people take lore so fucking seriously like god help if Vader was able to find the fucking cure for cancer in the comics and mfs gonna be wanting that in the show
@@jackboy2413 let a man like star wars
@@xeenoz2417 nah nah I’m enjoying Star Wars for real but I jus really get annoyed when u got people like the guy here complaining about any little thing
Vader scared me for the first time in years in this episode
Vader is a very dramatic person. We’re talking about the guy who turned off all his suit lights and held his breath behind those Rebels in Rogue One just to scare the hell out of them. He loves the chase, and he loves the fear he evokes from his prey. He also only used one hand throughout the fight just as he did with Luke in Empire. He was definitely prodding his defenses, and he never went all out because he felt how weak Obi-Wan was.
Also, I think Obi-Wan is going find out this hidden settlement is full of Jedi and Force sensitives running from the Enpire. Vader definitely wants Kenobi to lead him there.
Not to mention him feeling the need to do a 360 flip over Kenobi's head only to be cut down by him. When Vader could've simply just stepped on to the surface and continued fighting. But he wants to be flashy.
More aggressiveness? Too timid?
Dude snapped a kids neck to draw Kenobi out.
We're not even done with the show yet. For all you know his plan is to be revealed, or the next episode can pick right up from where we left off and show Vader having them followed back to find more sympathizers or attack Obi Wan soon after again. He changed his plans the second he realized other people were involved and he then fixated on them, it isn't something to "have a problem" with, it was purposeful. Have faith.
Everyone on social media is jumping down this show's throat before it's even over and it's kind of getting exhausting. You HAVE TO PAY ATTENTION, he seemed fascinated once the game changed and he realized/saw that Kenobi had friends. That's where this is going, not that "he hesitated to not be so brash," they already gave you the clues in the episode. It's about him assessing Kenobi having allies. Were you watching the same episode? Yeah, dude, Vader was so "timid."
Agree!
Yes, he is cautious but also, Kenobi is just a shadow of who he was. Imagine you are Vader and Obi Wan crippled you, you hate this person so much you want to break and destroy him. You have been sitting on that need for revenge for so long and then you find Kenobi and he is just pathetic. The person you wanted to destroy, you can't destroy because this person is long gone. I think Vader was disappointed and he found that torturing Kenobi didn't feel as satisfying as he hoped. He didn't get his revenge because he had nobody to break because Obi Wan was already broken. If you were ever in a similar situation you know what that feels like. All your hopes of get back are crushed just like that and now you have to keep sitting on your hatred with no place to exude it forever. You don't want to find the person who broke you broken, you want to find him the way he left you so you can be the one to break him.
Wow I actually love this take
@@StarWarsFan-tw2xc Thanks. That's what I would feel like at least. I immediately thought that's what it is when Vader just stared at him. It's just a theory though.
Bro write a book, it couldn’t have been described more accurately to how I portrayed it, theory is just hoping he cuts Kenobi to pieces lol
Bingo
This exactly u are spot on. I don’t understand why most fans think Revenge of the Sith Obi-Wan is ever coming back.
He can’t even let someone see him light his lightsaber in public without fear of the entire empire coming down on him. The dudes life mission is to protect the twins. That’s it.
Timid?? My boy snapped a child’s neck
The answer is clear as day.
He wasn't timid.
He was disappointEDDDDD.
If you remember from early on in revenge of the sith novel, it is stated that anakin actually almost preferred his cybernetic arm replacement for the one he lost in attack of the clones. Love what you do Theory keep being you my friend.
This is why we need star wars theory directing a star wars show or movie or both. Already loved your version 10x more than anything Disney has done
I started rewatching Rebels and in the second season Darth Vader says “ Such as Obi-Wan” and the Emperor says “ perhaps… if he lives “ . Im guessing Vader is going to beat Obi-Wan so bad that Vader thinks he’s dead in this second match up
There must be something else to it because by that logic he does not seem surprised to see Obi-Wan in A New Hope as if he knew that Obi-Wan was alive this whole time.
Wouldn't 10ish years have passed by that point? Could just be saying if he's still alive because they haven't heard of him since the events of Kenobi a decade ago idk
This can work only if the writers cared about canon of Star Wars. So far I don't see it in this show. Also found out that the writer did not watch Revenge of the sith. So doubt they watched Rebels. Not checking source material is a big red flag.
Two theories I may have:
1) Vader is more mature and thats why he took his time with Kenobi
2) Do you guys think Anakin my have stepped in for a split second and used the force to push Obi-Wan from the fire. Cause remember in Rebels, when Ahsoka damages Vader’s mask we see Anakin for second and he says Ahsoka’s name. And maybe thats why in the New Hope he says I was but the learner but now im the master. Idk just my thought, Imk what you guys think!!
no. that dudes fully engulfed in rage and hate. thats peak vader.
Shit writing. Fallen order happened before this series, and that Vader was much more fierce and realistic
I highly disagree about being cautious as well. Bro he was using one hand. When Kenobi ran away the first time, he just unignited his light saber and just looked ahead for a couple seconds. U can literally tell at this time he was thinking “ wow he sucks now” bro was running away. Timid ? Come on bro, he was burning obi wan in fire. I think ur right in ur own opinion but I think ur wrong on the Vader scenes except ur citizens video was spot on.
The line in Episode 4 can be considered an Anakin moment just like when he fought Dooku and claimed his powers have doubled. he was trying to weaken Kenobi's ego as well as he was doing to Dooku.
NGL I agree with a lot of what you said. Love the passion about Vader btw I feel like his character needs to be explored more I know Hayden talked about it recently but to be honest just seeing Vader on screen again makes me all the more excited so I can’t really knock the timidness of his scene. What he did to the villagers made up for it imo. How quickly he looked where Obi Wan was, how he picked him up and held him down with the force on that fire so he can feel the burns he did on Mustafar. I was satisfied I just hate the fact that it feels like these episodes fly-by too quickly 😂
I'm just going to go out and say it... I really wish they had only made Obi-Won and Vader cross-paths from a distance or being only steps behind each other... but not actually engage with each other and for sure not Vader seeing Obi-Won. This feels like fan-servicing to me having them pull out sabres with each other. I would have preferred a greater length of time between the last time the two saw each other again , so the lore can blend well with Episode 4. It just feels weird to me.. i unno.
bro fuck canon im tryna see a dope ass fight
That feels like just constant blue balls. Like licking the tip but never going for the climax.
Okay, no offense, but you are clearly sniffing some enamel.
Having Vader under the Disney banner means we'll get some stuff watered down. That's a given. But the fact that they green lit Vader SNAPPING a kids neck and dragging Kenobi through fire...THATS NOT TIMID!
"anger, hate, fear, these are tools we use however when you lose control of your emotions they in turn will control you and you will be the tools and they the master" - Palpatine to Vader (prior to the Kenobi show taking place)
I think Vader as much as he'd like to be a rabid dog against Kenobi, knows it'd be a fools errand even against a weaker Kenobi
love how you described it, great vid man
He didn’t go into the fire because it burn off his iconic cape. He loves that cape.
He is conflicted as well and unsure of what he wants to do this plays into his hesitation. I think parts of him wants obi-wan to get away and succeed.
wrong!
Timid isn’t the word he’s more tactical and patient, it’s much like someone playing chess.
Am I the only one that thought the confrontation was exactly how it should have gone? Vader wasn't being timid he was toying with Obi-Wan, plus a healthy dose of caution from the last time he went toe-to-toe with him.
Bruh it’s easy to see that’s exactly how it should have gone. People are creating issues and trying to explain away stuff that doesn’t need it. Very clear, very obvious that Vader is hunting him down like prey. You don’t rush anything when you’re hunting
Yeah everyone in this comment section disagrees with what he's saying in the video
@@SKAR__FOX guess I should read more comments!
I felt it came off more confident, with the Empire and Inquisitors, he seemed like he just was so sure of himself he didnt need to rush or chase him. He will catch him again, and he didnt feel like he had to rush. He didnt seem like he needed to prove himself to Kenobi this time like in ROTS.
Man that obi wan from rebels I wanted that obi wan here. So confident so in control so ready to protect the hope of the future luke. Especially how he interacted with maul where at first he was like let's just be on our separate ways to now I can't let you leave outta here alive with just his facial expression.
I absolutely did not get a “timid” vibe whatsoever.
He seemed cool calm and collected maybe, but not timid. He seemed like he knew exactly what he was doing.
A pretty scary and imposing presence.
Agreed. I got calculating and smart.
Vader running at Kenobi etc sounds fan filmy to me 😂. I think what they did works really well.
This is the thing about Disney Star Wars - we have to pluck ideas out of the sky to satisfy our needs of what we want these characters to be like so we don’t depress ourselves and accept the fact they’ve done it all wrong.
Maybe.. not necessarily though. They did allow some real creators to give us Rogue One, the Mandalorian and a few other good stuffs.
With some parts of the Disney shit, sure, I agree fully. They are trying to push Star Wars media to places, nay people it was never intended to be consumed by. In other parts we kind of need to let them fully tell their story first. Perhaps they are genuinely trying to give us a real REAL, Vader versus Obi wan story. Maybe?! It might be crap but what about the benefit of the doubt? Let's not get ahead of ourselves, is all I'm saying.
I have some real gripes about some parts of the first couple of episodes, then again, episode 3 did give me some hope. Anyway, here's hoping.
It’s unfortunate that we have to put so much effort into explaining away plot holes in order to enjoy the show :/
Really hoping they give us an explanation that makes sense by the time the final episode comes out.
This isn’t a plot hole…anyone with a brain can see Vader is hunting him
Do you want tutorials to go with the show?
😂
There are a fair share of plot holes in show, but Vader being timid isn't one of them. Theory is reaching for the sake of content here.
@@issiahsilva why would someone go through the effort of hunting someone/something for 10 years and when they finally find them repeatedly let them get away?
If that was "timid" I would hate to see Vader pissed the hell off.
Timid - lacking in courage or self-confidence; lacking in boldness or determination
Vader was ultra confident, bold, and determined. He was literally the opposite of timid. By definition Obi-Wan was the one that was timid.
He was just toying with Obi-Wan. They were saying Anakin rivaled Yoda in Clones. In Revenge of the Sith, he was more powerful than Obi-Wan then. He was just overconfident and hot-headed.
Now it's not even close, and that's even if Obi-Wan had been training.
Vader was a lot of things. Cocky, petty, ruthless, imposing, terrifying...timid not in the slightest.
It's not really bold for vader to just kill innocent people who are defenseless. What was bold of him to do.
More aggressiveness - from the guy that set his old master on fire, snapped a child’s neck in the street, and scared the hell out of the audience. K man
That was all on point, but their actual confrontation with sabers was fucking pathetic. Watch that "Star Wars SC 38 Reimagined" video, that is what I expected from Vader's combat stance. Not a fight with pool noodles.
Well when you put it that way...
@@ycebotz Obi Wan’s first fight in like 10 years. SC 38 is awesome but Kenobi hasn’t touched a lightsaber in a decade. Of course he’s pathetic. That’s the point
@@ycebotz That fight was just an appetizer for what is about to come.
@@jacksonstorm2416 its Vader that is pathetic, you missed my point. Vader doesn't seem nearly as aggressive as he should be
There was part of me that was disappointed with Ben igniting his lightsaber. He had been refusing to use it until he came up against Vader. I kinda wanted Ben bringing up his lightsaber to be a huge cinematic event. A sign that the old Obi-Wan was back.
That obi wan is never coming back. That’s kinda the point of this series to me. To show what happened in the 18 years between revenge of Sith and New Hope. He can never be that obi wan again after everything that’s happened to him.
"Old Obi-Wan coming back" would literally defeat the entire point of his character
Bad writing unfortunately. Like the rest of the series so far. "Oh no they're getting away" moments happening every episode.
Very true because you can brobably see that he is pacient and he has a plan for Kenobi😎and for that I'm intreeged to see where it goes to.(maybe to fortress Inq.)And I'm also privileged and lucky to experience this at 12 because we may not see this again.Tho my favorite characters are in this soooo..💯
I think Vader is running out of Jedi to kill, is becoming bored, and desires a chase. I think he is having "fun" with it