Could Dilithium BURN at that Level, All Hail the Borg!
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- Опубликовано: 29 сен 2024
- Let's Discuss the Dilithium Problem
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If the Dilithium went suddenly inert in an active Warp Drive, then antimatter was flowing. No longer being focused, what naturally happens when matter and antimatter collide? They explode!
Didn't see your comment here before I made mine.
So simple and basic, that it's probably often overlooked. Dilithium is not the means of energy, but the catalyst that makes a controlled matter/antimatter reaction possible. Has been discussed tirelessly in TNG, afaik.
You would think... except the Dilithium-Based Warp Core., actually doesn't use Naturally React-able Matter/Anti-Matter.
What do I mean?
Well., if we look at the United Earth M/AM Reactor Core (which is the precursor to the Warp Core, and what they would eventually call it due to Vulkan influence) well we have an example of a Non-Dilithium Based M/AM Reactor.
Instead due to the absence of Dilithium Ore within the Sol System, and the Vulkan' being unwilling to share their Dilithium-Based Reactor Technology... Humans essentially had to device their own way to create a reactor powerful enough to handle Warp Drive.
Their solution was still to use a Deuterium-Based Matter/Anti-Matter Reaction., but they controlled it via an Adaptive Magnetic Containment Field., not too dissimilar to how Prototype Fusion Reactors work today... the reason why they essentially Topped out at Warp 5, actually wasn't due to their Warp Coil and Field Design (remember this would be adopted across the Federation as the "Default" Design., meaning it was likely the most efficient and best approach) rather it was that their AMCF and Main Computer was unable to keep pace with the instability from a bigger M/AM Reaction and thus the Warp Field (and Reactor) would essentially stall out., with the potential to explode.
Now at the time Dilithium-Based M/AM Reactors were much more heavily researched by the other Species (like Vulkan, Andorian, Klingon, Tellerite, etc.) that they'd been advanced much further allowing for up to Warp 7... which is where they had plateaued about 100 years before., until Humans got their hands on the technology.
Over the following Century you'd see such rapid improvement in the Efficiency of the Dilithium-Based M/AM Reactor that an entirely new Scale to measure speed was devised.
Frankly, the ingenuity of Humanity should be something universally feared... but this isn't about that.
So as we've noted Dilithium-Based M/AM Reactors produce more Power, thus Faster Warp Drive; right? Well, not quite.
It isn't just a Power Delivery issue that the United Earth ran into., and the same is true for Romulans.
Romulans had adopted a Singularity Core (Macro Blackhole) to power their Ships., but they actually were considerably behind in terms of Warp Speeds.
What gives the Dilithium Reactors an advantage here? Well, it's a few things.
Deuterium Matter and Hydrogen Antimatter are the two input components., thus there is a Natural Imbalance preventing a Cascade Reaction; the result of which is Warp Plasma... so this already makes it different from the Non-Dilithium Based approaches; as the Warp Plasma is merely infused within the Reactor but isn't actually in the Reaction Chamber.
The next aspect is that the Dilithium itself does two things... it dissipates the M/AM into subspace, acting essentially akin to a Fuel Injector in a Modern Car; while at the same time because it has Subspace Resonance it stabilises the Warp Plasma to said Frequency rather than this having to be done in the Warp Coils; thus the Warp Coils are more or less there to simply alter the Amplitude as needed for a given Subspace Layer (which is what the original Warp Scale is based upon).
In essence it makes it more "Subspace Aerodynamic" so to speak.
Dilithium becoming inert doesn't change this... all it means is that you're essentially blocking any reaction at all.
Just as if the Reaction Chamber irradiates the Dilithium Crystal too much., the Structure becomes too Rigid and thus stalls out the Field as it no longer produces the Substance Frequency.
This is to say., without Dilithium; you have A LOT of Ships now incapable of Warp Drive... but as a note keep in mind that you're not strictly talking about Sub-Light as, Impulse Drives by the 25th Century essentially were capable of ~1.5c at "Full" Impulse Power.
A bigger issue at play is that as Secondary (Non-Dilithium) Reactors had been phased out., well this meant that without the Main Reactor you only had the Auxiliary Power Reserves (Batteries) to run on before you were "Dead in the Water" if the Dilithium was no longer able to react.
Now what is KNOWN is that Dilithium Crystals (refined) became Inert following "The Burn"., but it's pure conjecture that it's what caused Ships to Self-Destruct.
As Ships / Stations that had no Active Warp Core survived... we also don't know what happened with the Romulans, but that they basically aren't mentioned; well it suggests that they were ALSO affected.
Why do I say that? Well, if they hadn't been... do you think they'd have just sat back and been like "Oh look, we're the only Species capable of Warp Drive... let's leave everyone else alone."., yeah I don't think so. We'd see a Federation Size Romulan Empire, instead of despotic groups and species more-or-less trapped on their Homeworlds.
This means that what caused the burn was a Subspace Event that interacted with an Active Warp Field., and Dilithium being Subspace Sympathetic was made inert as a by-product not a catalyst; and if we keep with said logic, then this means Crystals and Ore would've been affected; essentially resulting in the only supply of "Active" Dilithium being renewed deposits following... i.e. over 100 Years this would be a very small supply., especially without reliable logistics.
With many species literally loosing FTL., thus cutting them off from ALL Dilithium Supply; and depending on how they viewed "The Burn" meaning they'd have to go back to the drawing board in regards to FTL, like Warp Drive; but as noted... everyone might become weary of Warp Drive given said Subspace "Burn" Event.
What if it happened again? A new form of FTL would ultimately be researched, but species would remain isolationist., leaving the Galaxy itself essentially a Lawless Frontier for anyone with the balls to use Warp Drive as "Kings" of it.
@@Leyvin I like this explanation. I do think that someone somewhere would look at history and ask what people did before dilithium and would work from there, since warp travel is possible (as you said) without dilithium.
@@Leyvin You make a few good points...somewhere in there...I lost track of them...
Until the story tellers unveil more info ALL of this is nothing more than wild conjecture.
Who cares...my suggestions...watch the show and enjoy it...watch the show and bitch about it because YOU KNOW STAR TREK BETTER THAN ANYONE...(wow I see the same bs from Star Wars fans)...or stop watching it and give us all a break from the bitchin.
If I remember my nerd stuff correctly... Dilithium is a moderator for matter/antimatter reactions. If all the dilithium that was in use went inert, the uncontrolled reaction would blow up the ships. Makes sense to me.
It does, but what also makes sense is that even starbases would have been affected as well.
The reason is that in Star Trek the computers use a low level static warp field to actually transmit information at FTL speeds. Also since the subspace communication array and sensors must use warpfields to actually do their work, it can be assumed that a warp core is essential to static operations as well as travel.
So in summary, the "burn" would essentially affect any ship or base if it met two requirements.
1. Utilizes FTL technology
2. Utilizes dilithium to achieve the energy required to achieve FTL computers and communications/sensors.
Edit: It may require the high power of a "dilithium moderated warp core" to actually make signals and transmissions possible for either the computers to transmit FTL information, or the vast distances subspace scanners and transmitters need to achieve.
@@deathstrike But not everything that uses warp fields uses an antimatter reactor. Like shuttlecraft, they have a small fusion reactor. Since antimatter isn't a "fuel" like fossil fuels, but an energy storage medium it would seem that the star bases just use whatever power plants the federation (and others) use to make manufacture antimatter.
Precisely
The only thing I can think of with what information we have is: someone tried to inject unstable Omega particles directly into dilithium to stabalize it?
I can't speak for everyone upset with season 3, because for some insane reason, I'm not. I find the idea of a decapitated Federation fascinating, and I've been watching too many spoilers, unable to wait until I can catch up on Discovery with my dad.
But I think that the writers approached the lore to the cause behind the state of affairs in the 32nd Century the wrong way.
They assumed that
A) Warp Drive and M/A Reactors would continue to the primary source of FTL propulsion and energy respectively
B) That removing dilithium crystals as a factor from a main reactor would equal an instant warp core breach. However, there was one time where the original USS Enterprise's dilithium crystal assembly was sabotaged. She was not destroyed, she just couldn't use her warp core, meaning no high energy systems such as the warp drive or phasers.
The Enterprise was still able to operate her shields, apparently by using her auxiliary fusion reactors, and probably could have used her warp drive or phasers, albeit with modifications to her power conduits and only at a lesser power level, and probably not at the same time. Granted that imagining this at a fleet-wide level would have made for an equally interesting story telling, with starships suddenly finding themselves many years, if not decades from the nearest star systems on emergency power, unable to utilize their main power source due to safety systems, and the risk that overriding them would redline the reactors past their containment abilities.
And then there would be the explorers on multi-year missions, stuck in another quadrant, or even in another galaxy. Most might simply decide to shut off whatever safeties prevent time dilation, similar to the Columbia in ST: Destiny. The galaxy may age around them, but at least the journey would feel shorter than if they were to slum it out at low FTL speeds. Others might risk running their main reactors at a very low level, barely high enough to run their FTL drives. Those that redlined their reactors without the dilithium crystals would probably indeed loose containment, so I do not see civilian starships risking their passengers. Starfleet exploratory expeditions other galaxies or even on the other side of the Milky Way might be out of luck, and might simply park their starships in the nearest habitable system, and settle down, while hopefully figuring out a way to repair their main reactors.
Even though neither STO or the collection of Star Trek novels are confirmed Alpha Canon, I still think that it is safe to say that the Federation would have gone far beyond experimenting with Quantum Slipstream and/or Transwarp Drives/Hubs, and they probably would be standard on all interstellar starships by the 31st Century, 700 years later after they started to experiment with the technology, maybe 600 years later if they decide to throw out the Vesta class and the events of Destiny, or push it back several decades. About the only obstacle to QSD becoming to Warp Drive what the Jet engine is to turboprops is the rarity of benamite crystals.
Starfleet already uses zero-point energy-powered warheads. What about as a power source? I would have liked the idea better that the cause of the Burn was a more powerful power source and faster-than-warp star-drive. This could have also been used as a reason for the lack of FTL communication - because all sub-space communication arrays had long-since been decommissioned.
A more powerful power source might also sound more plausible as something that cannot be controlled without some McGuffin device than an Antimatter reactor, which is theoretically possible, even without fancy dilithium crystals,. All you need is a strong enough magnetic field.
In short, it feels like the writers didn't do enough research when they write the story behind season three.
It’s like suddenly taking moderators out of nuclear reactors on a much more massive scale. It makes total sense. Like boron stops absorbing suddenly
I might be trying to bring too much hard science into the show, but I think the problem with the burn as a natural phenomenon is the same as the mystery of how the song showed up across the galaxy: there's not supposed to be a *natural* way for information to travel faster than light. No natural reaction should be able to happen simultaneously across thousands of light years.
It's also possible the writers will just ignore or overlook that because it's just a TV show.
Interesting, thanks Lore!
One thing that I don’t think was explained is was it just inert for that moment or for all time? How are they using dilithium now?
Slight issue.. Dilithium is a crystal it can not be another state. Early star trek states it focused the power from the anti matter/matter in the same way a prism works. Increasing the power. It can not explode, it can de cristlise, but as explained in the Voyage home, it no longer works, so the warp system would shut down. Its a system with built in safety systems.
Here's a thought:
If the Dilithium went inert, why is Dilithium still used as a viable resource for FTL travel? If Dilithium did become inert, it would just be a worthless rock. Corridon, Halkon, Delta Vega, Rura Penthe, and any other planet that had Dilithium veins would possible have been destroyed.
My thought on the Burn is that it was caused by a computer virus. Possibly even a newer version of the M5 Computer. That seems to make the most sense that a computer intelligence or computer virus collapsed containment and caused fleets of ships to explode. That may be why Dilithium is still a valuable commodity in the 32nd century.
Also, whatever happened to the re-crystallization formula developed by Captain Spock and Captain Scott? The last mention of that formula was used in TNG episode Relics (to the best of my knowledge).
While I care not for Discovery, Season 3 seems actually watchable.
We don't know why a large percentage of dilithium went inert, but it does make sense how it would result in the destruction of an active warp core. Dilithium acts to regulate the flow of injected antimatter into a warp core, if this regulator becomes completely permeable to the flow of antimatter (or itself becomes reactive with the antimatter, like all other known forms of matter) then an uncontrolled annihilation of the entire antimatter reserve would occur.
First, it isn't the inactive dilithium that exploded but the unregulated matter antimatter reaction. Ever since TOD, dilithium has been said to regulate the energy from the matter antimatter reaction. Also, the Excelsior class had Transwarp do the Federation had Transwarp since the 23rd century. The Romulsn artificial singularity is just another energy source and presumably it too would need to be regulated. Likewise other forms of FTL such as slipstream would also need energy and that energy would likely be from matter antimatter reactions hence would also need to be regulated. Presumably stationary power plants could use more massive and larger means of regulating power but the Trills apparently used dilithium with their stationary power plants as they had many deaths on their planet from the burn. It is very important to note that not all dilithium became inactive nor did any of the dilithium on Discovery when it arrived in the future so the burn could not have been from any changes to spacetime or subspace as those would affect all dilithium including the ones on Discovery.
Now it sounds like they are suggesting that it was a transient event as they are trying to triangulate the source but they screwed up on that as three sources would result in two possible locations in 3d not too many to search, two sources result in a ring, the third will intersect that ring one to two times. As to it being a transient event, it would have to spread at incredible FTL speeds which is very unlikely, even subspace radio took hours in TOS. Any such phenomena would be more likely to spread at the speed of light which would take tens of thousands of years to cover the space suggested.
Now, I doubt their writers would've thought of this but there is a biologic solution. Now biologic isn't that crazy as the spore drive is also biologic. In biology, there are species of both plants and insects where most of a population would be of one generation and would mature, reproduce and die more or less together. Mayflies all reproduce and die within a day, bamboo also flower, fruit and die together. In TOS miners inadvertently destroyed the silicon eggs of a silicon lifeform that had all died off save one who was the guardian of the eggs and was attacking the miners. Now this would mean that dilithium was alive but in TNG, a planet being terraformed had sentient microscopic crystalline life which attacked the people terraforming the planet and there was the crystalline entity. Of course not all the crystals would be of the same generation hence some would survive and the crystals on Discovery would all be 950 years younger. Even triangulation if the source might be reasonable as the British Empire documented the death of bamboo happening in waves allowing them to warn farmers as the death of the bamboo forests unleashed birds of hungry bamboo rats who would devour their crops, the warning allowed farmers to harvest and ship their crops before the bamboo deaths reached them, of course the problem there is that the starships move their crystals around defeating triangulation.
Inert means non-reacting or inactive, so the burn will be stupid if the fictional "inert dilithium", in of itself, turned the warp devices into a bomb. Nuclear bombs, for example, require refined radioactive isotopes in order to create a nuclear fission chain reaction and go boom. Anything else would make a supposed bomb into a heavy piece of non-explody metal case.
1:05 dilithium is supposed to “regulate” the reaction between matter and antimatter to the effect of allowing the warp nacelles to form a warp field; if a ships core is operating business as usual blowing up antimatter with matter etc, but the dilithium just stops, the ship’s destruction is a fair outcome
If dilithium becomes inert, matter/antimatter reactions become superbombs. Including all the death u mentioned, there would also be planetary destruction to if starbases and ships were near planets and detonated.
Wasn't A Slipstream Drive also using a Form of Dilithium as a Power Source?
This is only a nitpick rant... despite your rationale, (which I'm willing to entertain) I'm a bit disappointed the Federation still uses FTL (w/ dilithium) tech that appears not to have advanced much passed the 25th century. As we've seen 26th, 29th & 31st centuries, I don't recall an explanation regarding starship powerplants from those eras in canon. But those were timeships... Also, Agent Daniels, (seen in ST:ENT) was from the 31st century - supposedly the same century as "The Burn" occurrence? I figured Federation FTL tech would've been something more far more advanced & exotic in the 32nd century. I dunno... I feel the there's not much visionary futurism imagined in ST:DSC.
Did I miss something, doesn't the author know Romulan ships do not use a dilithium regulated matter/antimatter reaction. They use a forced quantum singularity as a core. Which is most likely true even of the discovery era.
... and taking your analogy of gasoline, it it was as dangerous there would still be steam, electrical and dare I say nuclear power at our disposal ...
Its totally explainable how that could have happened. You just need to manipulate even one little cosmic constant for an extremely small amount of time and all the active dilitium could explode. Thats not out of the real of possibilities even in real science :D A bit like vacuum decay just on a smaller scale.
I do hope they at least mention the Borg whether they are still around or not!
The next episode unification 3 will be interesting with regard as too how the crew react to the Romulans as in the 23rd Century the crew wouldn't have known about their links to the Vulcans, let alone know what they looked like and for the humans the bitter legacy of the Earth-Romulan war would still be there and some may well have had grand parents who fought in the war still alive when they were children telling stories of Romulan savagery.
A few things here. We know the D'Deridex used an artificial singularity but we also know it was not as effective as federation warp drives. The enterprise-D was faster and could maintain high warp for longer periods of time then a D'deridex class. We also know they could have negative effects on the ship and the space around the ship. We see both Picard and O'Brien stuck in time loops because of of the singularly drive. We also know that extended high warp (speeds to keep up with federation ships) would cause major damage and the damage is irreversible. It's likely they just switched to more efficient warp drives. We know that the Romulans at the very least had one major active dilithium mine which was on Remus and shown in star trek nemesis. We also don't know if dilithium was an active component of the Romulan warp drive in the first place.
As far as the current Romulans go the trailer to the next episode gives us a hint. The name of the episode is "Unification III" which is meant as a sequel up to the two part TNG episode "Unification I & II". In the trailer they show both Romulans and Vulcans, on thier shirts there are badges that have the Vulcan insignia over the Romulan insignia which tells us their people have unified. If this is the case the Romulans would have had no ambition for military conquest, they will be much like the vulcans we see in the 22-25 centuries. I guess the next episode will answer a lot.
Great video as always!!!
While I find most of your reasoning sound, why on earth would you 'trust' STD (appropriate acronym) to live up to ANYTHING you'd expect from Star Trek?! I've been making a concerted effort to give it a chance and it not only disappoints but insults me every time. It looks great & has some interesting ideas but the writing, dialog, characters, and story are not just poor but do not resemble Star Trek in ANY WAY except for terminology. Humanity by this point had reached a level of social evolution and consciousness that transcends all the virtue signaling they do. They are supposed to be BETTER than we are. Gene Roddenberry himself said that the people in Starfleet not only had those cultural evolutions but were put through such grueling training and testing that IF they managed to pass and become actual members of Starfleet they were, by every definition we have, ACTUAL heroes. Not just anybody could serve on a Starfleet vessel. They were highly skilled, highly intelligent, extremely physically capable, and the most WELL TRAINED people that humanity has to offer. They didn't bumble around, stumbling from one somehow miraculous screw up to another. As a side note: when your story's advancement is predicated on how stupid your characters are, you're a hack writer. When your characters have to do something freakishly dumb that NO reasonable, rational, thinking person would do in a million years JUST to move your story forward, your a poor writer. If your 'ensemble' cast is 'diverse' just for the sake of being 'diverse', you're a poor writer. If your main character is a Mary Sue who is the best at everything, you're a poor writer. If you have to retcon everything that came before you to inject your Mary Sue into EVERY major decision, event, character arc, and story that shaped every aspect of the 'world' in which you are writing, just to make your flat, flaky, vapid, devoid of depth virtue signal of a Mary Sue interesting, you're a hack of unbelievable proportions. When your main character is the LEAST interesting thing about your show, you're a poor writer. When your writing is virtue signaling just for the sake of virtue signaling, with NO ACTUAL story need or function, you're a poor writer trying to cover it up with an agenda. And IF you have ALL THESE THINGS, you DON'T HAVE A CLUE what Star Trek is about. ANYONE and EVERYONE aboard a Starfleet vessel is a hero, regardless of gender, ethnicity, religion, breast size, musculature, nose hairs, irritable bowel syndrome, sexual identity, home town, favorite sport, breakfast cereal preferences, personality, personal interests, WHATEVER! They are HIGHLY TRAINED PROFESSIONALS who are culturally above and beyond the bigotries and prejudices that WE have. They DON'T HAVE TO remind each other of such things. Their actions and the way they live their lives ALONE are enough. A REAL writer who wants, say, a gay couple within the crew (even though fraternization of that type are discouraged among officers serving together and in most militaries is an actual offense), applying the concepts of a more evolved sensibility, you would just have them there as if it were so normal nobody pays attention. You WOULDN'T make it the center of attention every time the story brought you within its possible orbit. It comes off as disingenuous and as obvious, hack virtue signaling as opposed to something that's not a big deal in the least. Humanity in Starfleet DOESN'T NEED TO PROVE IT'S NOT BIGOTED! Only rich, white Hollywood people do to both absolve their own guilt and score points with their social clubs. Star Trek DID, historically, take on certain social issues, however they weren't ham handed or confrontational or judgemental about it. They used aliens to do it. It was a way to detach the viewer from the concept so they could make objective analyses about complex, emotionally charged issues. As the aliens demonstrated the problems, REAL HEROIC HUMAN members of Starfleet showed their now evolved sensibilities and then applied the 'Prime Directive' so as not to interfere and world usually have an objective, moral analysis showing how humanity had evolved beyond such things and that contained some variation of: 'Whether we agree with or approve of it or not, we cannot interfere with the natural EVOLUTION of their society'. I do not think Star Trek should stay silent on modern social issues, just that there should be an ACTUAL NARRATIVE NECESSITY and that it should CONFORM to the ESTABLISHED CONVENTIONS of STAR TREK! You wouldn't write a story about baseball in the 1930's and have the players suddenly start having conversations about tachyons in the locker room. It wouldn't be realistic. It wouldn't follow the expected conventions of that group in that time period in that party of the world. There have to be REAL narrative reasons for doing things, not just virtue signals. Your actors have to have characters that have a REAL NEED to be there. Most of the crew of STD is actually pointless. Only there to signal to this group or that rather than having a narrative necessity. Now that the preamble is out, I COULD go episode by episode, situation by situation, point by point to demonstrate how STD has failed to earn ANY 'trust' from Star Trek fans. Star Trek is (was) about the hope of humanity to become better than itself. The hope we could achieve amazing things once freed from the greed, hate, bigotry, selfishness, and basic human needs we live with today. The idea that the stars would be within our reach once we learned to live with each other with compassion, support, cooperation, and acceptance. That other worlds would be new homes for us once we learned to take care of the world we have. That each one of us individually could overcome anything and achieve personal greatness. It was never about judging each other or self pity mixed with self righteousness or sulking in victimhood or looking down on anyone. It was never about cults of personality, one person being better than everyone else at EVERYTHING, being self absorbed and narcissistic enough to start a war, or finding ways to rationalize killing. And it certainly wasn't about how Vulcans, a race whose entire identity is based on the suppression of emotion and the adoption of logic, 'feel' on an hourly basis. The Vulcans of STD have more 'feelings' than I have crotch hairs. Star Trek prided itself on its sophistication, not its capacity to feed into our base instincts. While violence did happen, it always had a narrative purpose beyond just being an excuse to show an action scene. Until STD anyway. Star Trek II was a science fiction telling of Moby Dick. Star Trek VI incorporated elements of Sherlock Holmes. Also something nobody seems to have gotten since TNG, the ship is a character itself, not just a set piece or vehicle. The ship interacted with every member of the crew in non verbal ways that made it like a person. When Kirk stood on that cliff on Genesis, watching the Enterprise burning in the atmosphere like a meteor, you felt the enormous loss of a friend... It wasn't like he wrecked his car and got a new one.. it was painful. The Enterprise had been a character in every Star Trek story up to that point and you felt its loss. Nobody cares what happens to Discovery. I hadn't expected this rant to come out of me but since it did, enjoy...
First, it’s disco.. beyond that they are call Sti’s now.. and finally I do it because I judge something for what it is
Y'all know this plot point was taken from Futurama right? All dark matter I'm the universe (their fuel) was suddenly made inert. I believe this was in Bender's Game.
I believe only romulan ships classified as "Warbirds" starting from D'deridex and on have singularly cores.
good thing the federation in the 23rd century invested in alternate energy Kreiger Wave converters, you know so they could achieve warp travel without having to have warp drives, just ride a smooth kreiger wave pulse from relay station to relay station. Sure glad that wasn't a throwaway thing that never got mentioned again ever, nope, kreiger waves were the future, even jordy leforge the engineering chief of the uss enterprise at the time said he believed strongly in the tech.
They shut them down cause they killed people
@@LoreReloaded well just the one guy, who deliberately rigged it to explode because he thought riker was putting the moves on his wife. its not like big technological discoveries are run by singular individuals, that'd be pure fiction...
I mean the also use Antimater wich litterly explodes when it comes in contact with anything.
if I may, my understanding of trek tech, the warp drive and warp core , are 2 different things. the dilithium is used only to maintain a stable matter/antimatter reaction in the warp core only. being in warp does not have anything to do with the warp core powering the ship. When the dilithium in the warp core goes "inert" then the matter/antimatter reaction, goes unstable and causes a warp core breach. For the burn to blow up a ship or starbase, the warp core is the only thing that needs to be active and not the warp drive. Any thoughts on this?
I agree. And there's no reason that Starbases wouldn't use a warp-core engine as a power source. Ultimately, that's all a warp core is.... a power source. An engine. Basically the future equivalent of a nuclear reactor.
I think that is what is implied. They say active warp core. When Saru says "we were not at warp" during the burn, I suppose (he's making it up anyway) he's implying that the warp core was not operating at the time.
@@logansimon6653 agreed, and I get the "implied" meaning but most are not. we know that there are very few circumstances that a starship will have their warp core offline. Saying "we were not at warp" implies more conflict with the burn plot than not. If I was that earth lady in charge, i would have called Saru on that comment. Someone who actually went through the burn would not confuse the drive with the core i believe.
For what can understand if it when Dilithium is place in a strong EM field it's atomic structure allows antimatter to pass through it while being suspended inbetween the atoms so it doesn't interact with anything but normal Deuterium at a controlled rate
When the burn happened the antimatter reacted with the Dilithiums atomic structure as though there was no EM field causing a catastrophic uncontrollable M/AM explosion inside the warp core.
This does seem to be the case. Likely the only Federation ships that survived the Burn were those in Drydock for refit or repairs, and the odd Federation ship out in the field that had theirs offline for whatever reason.
Perhaps it was something like in stargate Atlantis when the gates and wraith ships were blowing up because of an experiment
I was just thinking the same thing lol. probably starfleet doing some weird experiment and it back fired on them.
Ah the Octero device
@@owellwellwell2418 You mean the Attero device
0:36 “Then came the Burnham. No one knows how or why it happened.”
Q: I thought it would be a funny joke. I was wrong... it turned out to be hilarious.
Dramatic slow and whisper spoken voice
Let's make the ST universe a grimdark Mad Max in space where everybody is fighting over the scraps of dilithium instead of gas.
So Dysfunctional and fatalistic
It's like the communists took over and tech advancement stopped in 24th century.
with Romulan Warbirds having Nacelles, I see it like this. Regardless if the Car is Petrol, Diesel, or Electric, it won't go anywhere without Wheels
In that analogy, the dilithium would be in the engine, not in the wheels. The question is, why not switch it out for a different type of engine, so you can keep running the car?
It’s time for the Q to make it’s entry into this timeline .....
Only to make it disappear.
I really wanted it to be the Omega Particle as the cause of the burn. I’m disappointed they went this route
I just cannot imagine that, in the 800 or so years since Voyager returned home, the Federation didn't find a way to mass synthesize benamite and switch to using slipstream over standard warp. Voyager's crew figured out how to synthesize it (albeit the length of time it would have taken to do so was prohibitive) with their limited capacity-- it makes no sense that Starfleet wouldn't develop the tech.
You could say the same thing about literally any number of technologies seen in trek, they are constantly finding or creating new tech for only a single episode and they never seem to fix that one tricky issue. Its never stopped them from moving on to tell new stories before, why start caring about it now?
maybe this tech got f-ed up, when both good guys' & villain's time agents were everywhere disturbing and/or fixing the timeline during the temporal cold war.
@@esto85 I mean, Book's ship has it.
What I find most problematic is that in the VOY episode about the Relativity, they use their time ship to travel through time and space. They certainly didn't travel with Warp Speed to a distant coordinate in the Delta Quadrant. Slipstream wasn't implied either. In the episode with the timeship Aeon they showed some kind of a rift in space-time ships can travel through (and in Endgame as well). So what happened to that rift-travelling-technology?
@@danielk5780 That part might actually work. Space and time being intimately connected means that any time machine can probably be rigged to travel through space as well. Both time ships in Voyager had that ability, they could just go between alpha and delta quadrant at will, and Daniels from Enterprise could basically teleport anywhere and send entire ships.
And of course, all of that would be banned if they dismantled all time travel tech. The much more serious question in that regard is, this one technology already makes Warp travel look like a children's toy. And they had other tech. So why the heck would anyone still be using Warp drives in the 31st century? 1.1
Turns out bill and ted rocked to Hard
i love that the "inert" explanation was giving meaning that it wasn't the dilithium exploding it was that the dilithium which is used a a regulator because in it's active state it doesn't react with antimatter sudden did react and thus ever ship effectively suffered a what amounted to a warp core breach
Dilithium moderates the matter-antimatter reaction. If the Dilithium goes inert, then the matter-antimatter reaction would runaway... BOOM!...it’s analogous to completely removing the control rods from a fission reactor.
The burn was a weapon. And honestly a tactically brilliant one. The one thing all majors star trek powers have in common is their reliance of warp.
If that is the case, then whoever fired said weapon failed to capitalize on it. The Romulans for example would be in a prime position for that. They don't use Matter/anti-matter reactions, so presumably they don't use Dilithium in their drives, they have had all the time in the world to rebuild, so they could have used the burn as a starting point for expansion.
Only, you know, they didn't...
@@Alexander_Kale Romulans also use dilithium for -something-. Why else have the enslaved Remans mine it?
@@specialnewb9821 You said it yourself: "Something". That does not automatically mean "Warp Drive". There is always going to be more than one use for any given material.
Except borg, except really ancient civilizations such as T'kon empire they don't use same propulasion as Federation. And borg cube is incredibly good at traveling large distances never having to stop and just keeps going at warp 9.999 forever if it must. Borg are probably the only power around taht'd not be effected, and would take full advantage of this although warp or not, not many who can stop them regardless of having warp to escape. All become borg eventually
If Dilthium is inert and can't be used for a warp core, your telling me 32rd century Starfleet engineers, SEVEN HUNDRED YEARS more advanced than the TNG era. couldn't build a compact artificial quantum singularity drive engine capable of replacing a Dilithium based core? What smart matter can't do that?
Even if that couldn't produce as much as a standard warpcore ( which it probably could or better ) it would at Least allow civilian ships, long range communication and most Starfleet vessels to operate normally or at least at a reduced speed/output.
Yeh no can't see even the burn crippling the federation that much and especially for 150 years. If the federation was that bad I would use a timeship to go back pre burn and come back with every centimetre full of active Dilithium it could collect without disrupting the timeline.
It's not much left of the Starfleet after the burn. So I could rather se an regression of technology after the burn.
So your telling me that there was no ships in museum's? None under construction? No decommissioned or mothballed? No Starfleet or civilian ships just having repairs? All those with inactive warpdrives there must have been hundreds if not a few thousand ships that should have survived the burn all with long range communication not dependant on a need for a warpcore.
Ether Starfleet are hiding from something or most federation worlds like Earth have grown disillusioned with Starfleet BEFORE the burn and took those ships with them.
maybe all singularities also exploded during the Burn
Alex Kurtzman "yes."
And lets assume the battle of Procyon-V occurred in this timeline. That means the Romulans are aligned with the Federation and would mean that they have the knowledge to develop them.
Honestly, if the writers actually read the lore and knew Romulans don't use the same dilithium warp drive as the rest of the major species, they would have mentioned it by now but it looks like the new episode, called Unification might address that, so we'll see
Isn’t it possible that the Romulans switched to traditional warp cores somewhere along the lines? A lot of time has passed since then.
its possible in the future they switched to it
@@jbc17c Why on Earth or Romulus would you ever give up an almost unlimited power source, for dilithium.
@@randomrazr Why? There's evidence from any episode or lore that the THEN current Romulan way of warp travel is any less efficient than other races
Cause flying around with a black hole in your ship can lead to a host of other unforeseen problems if something were to malfunction, which we see often happens on any ship.
Important to remember that a Warp Core is really just the Matter/Anti-Matter Reactor that powers a Warp Drive, and is also the primary power source for everything else on the ship, although they may have auxiliary Fusion Reactors and other power generating systems. Some large starbases utilise a Warp Core for power even though they don't have Warp Capability and it's probable that many planets may also use them.
It really isn't, no. Anti-Matter, like Hydrogen, is not an energy source, it is an artificial fuel. With some very specific and limited exceptions, there is no naturally occurring anti-matter within the star trek universe.
Meaning you generally cannot mine it, you have to create it. The Klingon Empire's Praxis was an exception.
Meaning you need an exceptionally powerful energy source to create it.
Meaning if you can do that anyway, you would power your station and your planet with that instead, cutting out the middle man.
Star Ships are powered by anti-matter, because it is an awesome, compact fuel. Stations would not need to do that, and planets would be more concerned with energy-efficiency. So running your planetary power grid on anti-matter would just be plain stupid.
Even aside from that, Dilithium was already a rare substance pre-burn. And you CAN make a Matter/Anti Matter reactor WITHOUT Dilithium. So no, no one would use a warp core unless they want to power a warp drive with it. The clue is kinda in the name.
For all the people talking about the Romulans. Wasn’t their home world destroyed by a Nova and their empire broken a part? Maybe they never recovered.
they even broke into 2 Factions at least, according to STO, but for sure they struggled immensly. Ressouces crippled to a crisp, but they still had some ships and means of movement. But to be honest the Synth incident in PIcard also distorted diplomatic and even humanitarian missions heavily as well. We still are about to see how that will turn out. Also Picard retconned the STO interpretations there anyways, which is understandable though, since STO is just interpreting canon events and their fallouts into a non canon continuation.
@@DerBeppone you forget romulan is spacefaring empire...they should have many base and colony to rebuilt their empire again
@@mosalah8551 well, if it was a regular super nova maybe. But the Hobus Event somehow also spread through sub space, which was exactly why it was so devastating to the romulan empire.
So yes. Theoretically there should be infrastructure of some kind left, but not much.
Besides we also don't know how much damage was caused by Shinzon's coup just a few years before the super nova. Seemed to be significant, as well.
Now is the perfect time for The Borg to strike!
Interestingly enough everyone is focused on the dilithium. If I remember my tech readouts there are essentially 3 parts of the warp core matter, anti-matter, and dilithium. The dilithium was the regulator so when the dilithium went inert any ship with an active warp core just collided matter and anti-matter together with no way to contain and regulate the reaction causing breaches that took out the ship. The dilitium wasn't the explosive...the dilitium was what has been keeping warp cores from detonating in the first place.
The further problem is that starships have numerous fail-safes to cut off antimatter flow in the event that the intermix chamber encounters a problem (like uncontrolled detonations).
Every ship should have experienced "some serious damage" but if they were initially functional, the fail-safes should have done their jobs.
@@zacharycouch1983 I'm sure if there had been any warning then yes it would have probably been simply serious damage. Unfortunately the way it has been described thus far is that one second there was functioning dilithium regulating the flow and the next second the entire warp core essentially turned into the biggest armed photon torpedo on the ship. Everything that was already in the chamber made contact and since the warp core is typically most of the ship tall.
I'm sure the computer tried to kick in the safeties. There just wasn't any warning for it to make a difference.
@@dan1934 no warning would ever be possible for warp core malfunctions relating to the intermix chamber.
Technically the product of an antimatter detonation is pure light energy and all information in the universe travels at the speed of light.
A bad reaction would therefore occur, become known, and have a result all at the maximum speed of information.
If fail-safes of any kind ever Were going to work, they would have to be reliable without warning in the first place.
@@zacharycouch1983 It doesn't really matter if warnings occured or not. Even if the ships had a safety shut down, they would still be left in the middle of nowhere with an inactive FTL drive. In other words, even if the burn didn't kill them, the crew of every ship currently in transit while the burn happened simply would have starved to death eventually.
So effectively, the same happens. Those ships are gone and interstellar travel shuts down for a while, until they find a way around this problem. The unbelievable part is that they had a hundred years to do that and never did.
@@Alexander_Kale clearly warp drive has been perfectly safe for 150 years afterwards and Starfleet had already perfected recrystallizing dilithium by Picard's time period.
Claiming dilithium "inert" as a problem is a misconception because the exact reason it's used in warp is that it IS INERT.
The Burn, as described, is a singular event, like a bomb going off, not a fundamental change in physics.
Thanks for putting the gasoline analogy in my head while I’m driving.
Kaboom 💥
First
#hero
Uncontrolled mix boom 💥. Doesn’t make the crystal’s bomb . It simply means once the crystals went inert there was no time to shut down . Simple as that
Not warp drive, but warp cores. As matter and anti matter combine without dilithium we get massive explosion - starbases used other form of power
Discovery itself hit a "speed bump" while traveling forward in time through the wormhole.
The Red Angel Suit was damaged when Burnham sent it back on autopilot with instructions to self destruct.
The burn was less than two centuries prior.
The show is built on forming guilt around its main characters.
Disco itself caused the burn. Almost certain.
It's just a question of which version of How.
1:22 OHHHH boi, just u wait my man. "Depending on how they explain it." I'm huehue'ing my ass off right now!
ok.. a weird thought... could it be the Q be the cause of all of it?
I have a theory that it's the iconians, would fit if any of the writing team for stod played sto online. 😂
Warp drive uses a matter/anti-matter reaction for power; dilithium focuses the magnetically constricted matter and anti-matter streams to produce the electromagnetic plasma that powers the ship's systems including the warp drive. If dilithium is rendered inert while a matter/anti-matter reactor assembly (M/A-MRA) is active, the result is a runaway chain reaction ending in a warp core breach. Thus, any starship, Starbase *AND* planet-bound M/A-MRA would have detonated like a multi-giga-ton bomb; yes, there would/should be planet-bound M/A-MRAs as solar, fusion, wind turbine and hydroelectric power would be highly inefficient in terms of power generation vs. consumption.
To be clear, an active M/A-MRA (colloquially known as a warp core) would have been affected regardless of whether it's warp drive was engaged or not.
(P.S.-for more precise information regarding warp cores and warp drive, please consult the _Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual_ before calling me out on the above commentary)
I think people over think this but of course that is what fans do. The Burn was simply a device to make a thousand year old shop still relevant. As to what caused the Burn there is a chance this weeks episode may explain some of what is going on once the unified Vulcan, Romulans come into the series. The theory that Starfleet or at least someone in the Federation caused the Burn is quite likely, the Admiral appears somehow not quite right. But then again aren’t most Starfleet Admiral seen to be that way. As for this season it is a vast improvement over the last 2, I still have problems with some of the writing but then again Trek has the ability to produce some absolutely awful episodes no matter which version. The simple fact the CBS haters will never acknowledge this season is good because they may have to admit what they have been saying about CBS is wrong.
Bad writing is still bad writing. The concept of the burn is so destructive to what star trek is at its core that it literally fractures the federation, for what? Narratively that would be the same as having mordor just suddenly sink into the ocean in the middle of the 2 towers. Sure it will create a fresh new narrative centred around finding out why this happened, but in doing so it irrevocably nukes the story of middle earth.
If the story you want to tell requires shifting the lay of the land that much, surely you are better off working on a fresh IP where you can set the stage from the beginning instead of having to bend a pre-existing and lore rich IP at 90 degrees to be able to support your story?
I think somebody was experimenting with something dangerous, such as Omega, that caused an event that affected all of subspace.
Subspace being wrecked would actually make more sense in terms of preventing ftl travel. No problems with romulans, quantum slipstream would likely also be affected, Borg would be affected, pretty neat idea.
Shame they didn't go with THAT instead...
"damn it for what it is". Starfleet almost completely being wiped out is enough for me never to watch this garbage of a shitshow.
I still think that the burn only affected the ships with active WARP CORES. I mean, even when you aren't at warp, you still sustain that matter-antimatter reaction. What we know is that dilithium is the medium that helps stabilize the reaction itself, so... Once the dilithium is rendered inert, the reaction just goes out of control and BOOM. But if you have a turned off warp core, nothing happens.
And in the end, The Mighty United Federation of Planets was destroyed by a child's pure hearted wish...
They completely forgot all the species that don't use dilithium , why didn't they take over,
Dilithium is a crystal, and us susceptible to frequency right? Like the tholians.
What if there's a way to send a frequency that triggers its destruction
The problem is that season three has propped up Dilithium as the-end-all-be-all of warp drive. Dilithium Crystals aide in the control of the antimatter reaction; however, a large bulk of this reaction is aided by deuterium and etc. If Dilithium is this all encompassing necessity to warp travel then how did species with no Dilithium present on their home-worlds or star systems apply Dilithium to their warp drive designs? Did Cochran utilize Dilithium in the Phoenix warp-core?
Dilithium becoming inert causing huge explosions makes sense. It is supposed to mitigate matter-antimatter explosions to safely convert them into energy. Uncontained antimatter smashing into raw matter with no means of controlling the reaction is because your drive WAS an antimatter bomb.
You basically turn the warp core into a Photon torpedo.
@@1337penguinman As Mythbusters put it..."Jamie want big boom".
We need a starship captain like Avon. Self centre, only helps people or races if it benefits him....the ultimate anti hero. No wonder the ratings of Blake 7 went through the roof when Avon took over as commander after Blake's departure
Every ship just blow up because there power sauce went sleepy time but doesn't inert mean it isn't active or was Dilithium a Coolant feature and with out it The Warp core over heated and blow ?.
And with the amount of Safety protocols on Starfleet ships this seems like it would never happen.
No, Dilithium regulates the matter/antimatter reaction within the core, kind of like the moderator and control rods in a current-day nuclear reactor. If it goes inert (no longer providing that function) the reaction will go out of control, leading to a core breach, an uncontrolled antimatter explosion.
What if the romulans joined the federation in the past or future. Before the year 3000 and stopped being hostile towards the federation. Also what if a outside force from another galaxy did that to cripple the galaxy for a evading force. Or maybe the time travel war made the federation stop by blowing up the dilithium because it was too much why they banned time travelers. Maybe they just didn't want to mess with time anymore.
Like say...the Terran empire?
It still feels weird watching your optimistic discovery season three videos.
I never expected to see this a year ago.
I just hope the show doesn't ruin all the good will it seems to be building.
I hated season 1 and 2 but I also have been enjoying this season. I'm just waiting for them to ruin it.
So, like year of hell only the entirety of the federation.
I'm not "Damning" season 3 because of the sins of seasons 1 and 2. I'm "damning" it, because it's a poorly written show with unlikable characters and story arcs.
It's been 3 seasons, and I can barley remember anyone's name... However, I'll try and give my best breakdown as to why this show is terrible:
POINT 1: (Michael Burnham is Perfect)
Mikey seemingly can do No Wrong. Even when she makes a mistake, it turns out for the best. (Anytime there is the slightest drama, or tension that another character on the show must deal with.. Mikey always goes with them because they need Her help, and would fail otherwise. This is a poorly written character)
Don't even get me started on her being Spock's supposed "sister".
POINT 2: (Saru is a TERRIBLE Captain)
Saru is the biggest baby (insert swear word here) captain I've ever seen.. He's talked down to by nearly his entire crew. He's seeking and obtaining advice from the lowest ranked people on the ship. This simply would NEVER happen. When Saru attempts to "Captain" he's placated by his (again) lowly ranked subordinates. For example when that irritating character (Tilly) tells Saru "that's how you captain" seemingly giving him praise, it comes off as disingenuous at best. (Could you imagine Wesley Crusher saying that to Picard?... Can you say, "Shut up Wesley"?)
Further, when Saru FINALLY does something about Mikey's insubordinate behavior (although she's always right, see earlier point), Saru finally demotes her. What does Mikey say to him? She placates and talks down to him, saying "you did the right thing"... as if Saru needed her approval for her demotion. (Again, did Paris say this to Janeway when he was demoted? GTFO) He then offers a field promotion to ENSIGN Tilly, because why? They have a command structure, she isn't even a command office. She's a science officer. This is just straight nonsense! (He's just a weak, weak captain in so many different ways.
POINT 4: (Fake and Forced Drama)
Too much DRAMA. There is far too much forced hugging, crying and fake drama in this show that it never earned. Characters are hugging, crying and basically acting a fool for the sake of some perceived emotional impact. It hits me as hallow, as we never learned or cared about these characters enough to care about them. (and frankly, neither has the crew who's pretending to care so much about each other)
POINT 5: (Irritating and Forgettable Cast)
The entire engineering crew is the most irritating on the show. I don't like any of them. The demeaning lady, the irritating and must always be right ensign "Tilly".
The bridge crew are filled with no names. I just see brief glimpses of them. 3 Seasons in, and I still can't name the bridge crew. (we have no connection to them, and frankly don't care about any of them. When one of them has an issue, I couldn't care less.. because we didn't even know they existed. We're too busy watching Mikey save the day...
POINT 6: (Fake Science)
Star Trek was science fiction to be sure, but it was ALWAYS based on science theory. Warp drive is a theory such as, if we had a power source like matter / anti-matter warp core, it's within science theory that a warp bubble could be formed based on how we know space works. This is a theory of course, but based on a real world science.
Most everything in Star Trek has been grounded in some form of Scientific theory. Discovery has broken away from this norm, and is straight up making everything up. It makes the show less believable, less grounded in reality. I'm not saying the Star Trek series before it hasn't taken some liberties (like the Tricorder often being a plot devices), I'm just saying that nothing in Discovery is grounded in reality.
POINT 7: (21st Century Language)
I can't stand the cussing on this show, don't get me wrong.. I drop some F bombs in my life. However, that doesn't mean I want to hear that in Star Trek. (I don't).
People on this show are talking like they're straight out of 2020. It's not funny, it's not cute, and it's nothing to praise. The way we talk to each other in the 21st century is appalling, and shouldn't be used in a show about the hope and future of Mankind.
Cussing has no place in Star Trek, outside of ST4 where it was used to show how stupid it was that we cussed at each other.
POINT 8: (Star Trek's Message has been Lost)
Star Trek has ALWAYS been a vision of what humanity "COULD" be. It was a bright future where we've moved out of our infancy. Hunger, Disease, War is all gone (on Earth), where people work to better themselves and the rest of Humanity. (at least that's the overall message)
Star Trek has had scuffles with other cultures, but they don't try to push their ideals on civilizations, nor do they truly fight each other. (Gene Roddenberry himself didn't want there to be any in-fighting between the crew outside of an Alien or pathologically outside influence.
In Short, Star Trek is supposed to be a mirror for Humanity to show us what we could be. (I don't want to be ANYTHING like the characters I'm watching in this show.)
CONCLUSION:
I could honestly pick apart this terrible show for hours, but I'll just say. This show feels more a wannabe Star Wars action show with a Star Trek wrapper than actual Star Trek.
I quote Picard when I say: "Does anyone remember when we were explorers?"
Don't watch it then you crybaby.
@@morrigangg A tolerant response... What did you disagree with that made you reply with such an immature response ?
Crying about me supposedly being a "crybaby", makes no sense. All I did was critic what I believe is holding Star Trek back.
Tell me what I said that you disagree with ...
No, Lore, it's not magic, untill we get that as explenation. It's magic when Q show's up!
It's most likely that the Burn was Michael's fault by accident when she sent her "Red Angel Suit" back into the wormhole for the final signal before self-destructing. I think the time crystal had a bit of juice left when the suit exploded just outside the mouth of the temporal anomaly which sent the explosion through time onto the specific point and then amplified when it crossed with SB-19 turning it into a bigger explosion. How or why the dilithium became inert well I think that answer is in Discovery Season 2 episode 13 at run time 24 16 where Po was talking about modifying her dilithium incubator and charge the time crystal.
That's it, I'm buying a diesel.
This is my take on antimatter, dilitium and nacelles.
Tracking backwards from load to source; The nacelles create the warp field and they basically use electricity to power up (all ship's systems do). Copper wires are impractical to carry that amount of power (mass and temp.), so plasma conduits are used instead. The antimatter or intermix chamber creates the raw power that's needed to run the ship's primary and sub-systems. The dilithium crystals focus that raw power (via frequency or phases) in to something usable that the plasma conduits can handle. So if the dilitium crystals failed, that energy could feed-back in to the intermix chamber or completely destroy all conduits and relays...
But this assumes no surge protection of any kind was installed. We all know Federation ships have back ups for their back ups so I'm thinking here this is a ''plot disaster'' that can't really hold true if looked at with how the tech works. IMHO.
@@CPT_Nelson I have to go with the notion that ST:D writers really never watched Star Trek or really cared to pay attention... a complete mess
I've always understood that a "warp core" is just an advanced type of nuclear reactor. One that uses an anti-matter/matter reaction, sure, but ultimately it's just a power generator. The warp core, in and of itself, does _not_ create the warp field. There's actually no reason that a starbase - which are huge things - wouldn't use one.
What confuses me is that it is stated that " _all_ dilithium went inert". Not just the stuff in active warp cores, but _all_ dilithium, everywhere. Makes no sense that it would become valuable after that, or that any of it would be useable.
Anyways, speculation: someone was trying to improve dilithium. Make it better. Instead they caused it to go inert. It was an experiment gone wrong. That's my hypothesis.
Starbases don't use warp cores because they don't need to. They have enough space to fit much safer fusion reactors.
I caught that too about all dilithium went inert but the impression its only the dilithium that was being presently used in a reaction chamber that seems effected.
It would explain a few things if it was that the dilithium went inert "for a few moments", all of it but only for a short time - a kind of "dilithium dampener wave". That would make ships using it in warp cores to blow up via matter/antimatter reaction going nuts but otherwise the surviving dilithium in powered down devices or deposits would be fine for future use. That might be even the future reveal IMO after Michael said about the Burn having a point of origin.
@@demogorgonzola Even if that's the case, why would they continue to use dilithium. No one knows if the burn was the result of an attack, an experiment, or a natural event. It makes no sense to keep using it. Surely every time you power up the warp core you'd be risking instadeath.
@@2bituser569 But it makes no sense for them to keep using it.
Borg was defeated by janeway
The first two seasons of Discovery DO NOT SUCK. Trek has evolved it can not be TOS or TNG, That would not work any more.
They do suck yea .. I agree tos and tng wouldn’t work anymore ..
@@LoreReloaded
naaah they dont suck or not as hard as the TNG era 1st seasons - especially when taken in context that DSC is a visual/tech reboot in "prime" continuity - and a multipart streaming tv movie versus formulaic episodic made for syndicated broadcast tv - they were hardly perfect, but the pros outweigh the cons
It could be a subspace frequency caused the crystal explode .
Definetly possible - that would tie into what we are seeing on discovery now.
Also, the Romulans could simply have joined the Federation now things were as they were, we sat many a part of it already in Picard.
By the time of the Burn most of the Alpha and Beta Quadrant species plus many from the Gamma and Delta is apart of the Federation
@@Dseagles14 yup, so unless they returned to previous doctrine which is possible, they wouldn't take advantage and be offensive.
Four months later, I’m seeing this video for the first time. And by coincidence, you mentioned something about all gasoline powered cars going up like a bomb in a single instance. The coincidence is that, last night, I just happened to be watching an episode of the 1997 Kinght Rider sequel series, “Team Knight Rider” (don’t judge me!). The specific plot of this particular episode happened to be that an eco-terrorist has rigged a satellite network to transmit a signal which will interact with a common additive in gasoline and essentially cause every car in North America to explode, not unlike what we see with Discovery and the “burn.”
If the Problem with the Omega particle was, that it could disrupt warp travel, but no dilithium=no warp ? Why didn't they start experimenting again with it. With the possibility of an infinite power source like Omega, they could have made a new type of "drive"...
I noticed that you were streaming it, but didn't watch it.
in startrek science, Dilithium is used to regulate the plasma flow created by the matter-Antimatter reaction. It in of itself is not a power source, just something to regulate it.
In theory, the Dilithium itself did not explode, but when the Dilithium went Inert (not sure how or why that would happen, but lets just assume it did), that would mean that the matter-antimatter plasma flow would go uncontrolled, hence, ships exploding. And my entire research on this is just... watching startrek.
Think of the Dilithium as something like... a carburetor. It's not the fuel, and not the engine, but still a vital piece of equipment to make the engine work.
And yes, Romulan design ships in theory, use quantum singularities as a power source, so those ships would have been fine... if there were any left after the Hobus disaster.
At this point, my only real suggestion is to just sit back and watch, so, I'm totally with you on this, Lore Releaded.
Picard is no more cannon than New Who. If the show's entire premise requires a complete reversal of everything established previously, such as the Utopian Federation with no form of currency tio a dystopian Federation with social inequality based on money... well. Its Anti-Fan Fiction, a show made by people who have never watched the original series, do not respect the original series and go out of their way to insult and offend fans of the original series at every turn, while constantly retconning anything that doesn't fit their current agenda.
Have not even watched the series but wasn't it talked about that the continued use of warp drive would tear up sub space in TNG? Why was dilithium even still used in the 31st century? Noone came up with alternatives?
The "Warpcores" are a form of Mater/Antimater annihilation generator. They do still seem to use fusion for less demanding tasks, but all the real power produce are "warp cores".
Processed Dilithium is the only material in Star Trek, that can affect a Antimater stream without causing a explosive mater/energy conversion with said stream. If it lost that ability? You get a uncontrolled and uncontained reaction between mater and antimater. Wich is the basis behind every Warpcore breach.
# Dilithium itself also can blow appart Planets (TNG: Pen Pals) or Shipyards with relevant storage bunkers (DS9: Tracking into the Wind). So it is not like it is non-dangerous in itself.
# The burn is just something that caused instant Warpcore breaches across the universe, while also taking away all refined dilithium (not the unrefined one, wich was rare).
# As for Romulan Singularity drives: It is very likely they are still using Dilithium somehow. The same applies for the Borg, I would say. Dilithium has been *the* constant in FTL travel for Star Trek.
It is also possible the "Singularity Drive" had reached it's speed ceiling centuries ago and was not compatible with Quantum Slipstream and similar advanced technologies. It was noted that D'deridex Warbirds were significantly slower then a Galaxy Class: Warp 9.6 could be maintained for a few Hours by the Enterprise-D, but would cause irreperable damage to a D'derdix engine.
Wich would make it one of those "tried but not suiteable" alternative technologies. Right next to Tachyon Solar Sails (propably what the Ancient Bajorans used to get to cardassia).
Do you hear that sound @lore reloaded ???That's me slow clapping for you, nice work bruh! But a couple points I think worth noting
memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Warp_drive#24th_century
"Other civilizations used different power sources, such as the Romulans' use of artificial quantum singularities to power their warp drives (TNG: "Timescape"), but the basic process was similar."
- maybe I'm inferring too much, because I'm not a specialist is physics defying FTL systems - but it looks like the rommies singularities are the power source vs matter-antimatter, and would still need dilithium to manage the power to created warp
memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Transwarp_drive
"The Borg had established a whole transwarp conduit network, that allowed any type of craft, or even a simple probe such as a log buoy, to travel at transwarp velocities. Even though such networks existed, Borg starships were also equipped with transwarp drives that generated conduits when pre-existing conduits were not available. (TNG: "Descent", "Descent, Part II")
This type of transwarp drive utilized a combination of the traditional warp drive, navigational deflector and deflector shields as its components. The ship was taken to warp factor 2.3 to generate the initial required large subspace field. The navigational deflector was modified to use a tachyon matrix within it to emit tachyon bursts on a high-energy band. The deflector shield of the ship was used to emit the tachyon bursts into space at the resonant transwarp frequency level. The subspace field of the conduit then formed in front of the ship."
- and again I didn't attend How to Make Einstein/Hawking Spin in their Graves 101 at Starfleet Academy, but borg also appear to need a "standard" warp drive as part of their transwarp system - so I'm at this point assuming that the Borg and Rommies were equally affected by the burn
While they may fill in the Romulan plot "hole" (because they used a quantum singularity aka black hole to power their ships), is this the timeline where Romulus blew up and Picard saved the Romulans (so confusing). Anyways, I still think the answer will be Q Continuium (useful when the writers are lazy). But frankly, I'm tired of the Q and the Borg, I'd love to just leave the dilithium mystery for now, and bring on the Dominion and the Changelings. Who doesn't like to see giant space battles amIright?????
One of the worst technobabble sins in all of Trek was conflating the matter/antimatter reactor array (M/ARA) with the warp drive, because it deeply confuses the issues in discussions like this.
The M/ARA is just the powerplant or engine, using the annihilation of reactants, controlled by dilithium, to output "electroplasma" (the "EP" in "EPS" or electroplasma system). In a romulan ship they use the artificial blackhole, eating fuel and outputting EP instead, but the *engine* is distinct from the "drive." The warp drive is the arrangement of warp coils which, when powered up by the flow of electroplasma into them, creates the field that facilitates FTL propulsion.
But electroplasma is electroplasma, whatever your specific powerplant, as long as it spits out EP formatted the way your warp coils like it, you can "go to warp." So romulan ships with their singularity engines *should* have been fine, since it's the popular M/ARA powerplant, not anybody's "warp drives," that use dilithium and become basically photon torpedo warheads if it stops 'working.'
My Problems are:
1. why is dilithium shown as it were the gasoline? It is not. It is more of a Catalyst which was used to focus the Matter/Antimatter Reaction which was the Gasoline you referring to. Still in Discovery they imply it was actually the fuel which is not true.
2. Warpdrive and Warpcores are not the same! Warpcores are just Matter/Antimatter fusion reactors and it is more than unlikely that a Starbase would not use such an reactor just because they have no nacelles to achieve actual Warpdrive.
3. Why is the Dilithium suddenly red?
4. why is Subspace communication dead? Do they seriously tell me that those Relays don't work 200 Years? Or at least a bit longer after the burn so the Federation Worlds could coordinate themselves?
5. Why wasn't the Federation still the most powerful organization? Inactive Warpcores weren't detonated so what about all the ships currently in drydocks and under construction? And what faction aside of the big powers could have had more and more advanced ships than the Federation to rival them in power?
6. How did all those perfectly fine and peaceful as well as self sustaining worlds of the Federation not keep their peace? Even without Warp and Communication with other Planets they should have ketogether like the ideology that was implied in TNG/VOY and DS9 they should have easily fought off some pirates.
The Romulans didn't take advantage of the situation because of the following reasons:
1. The Romulan empire didn't exist by the 31st century. By Picard, the Romulan Empire had been all but destroyed by the Supernova AND well before the burn, the Romulans and Vulcans had unified and the Romulans had become a part of the Federation. This sounds insane (and it sounded insane to Saru and Burnham) BUT according to the Admiral the Romulans, far from being how they were in the bulk of the timeline, actually wanted to stay when Ni'var (Vulcan) wanted to leave, meaning they were likely either enthusiastic or at the very least, pragmatic members of the Federation.
2. Even if some elements didn't unify with the Vulcans, do you really think they would be in a position to do anything considering that by Unification, the Romulan empire was gone and it's central state had merged with Vulcan?
Discovery do not even know what is Borg.. hahaha
But hmmmmmmm... Enterprise J can do inter-galactic travels, space-time fold kinda drive. Does Enterprise J kebabooom as well? I need to see the "pizza-cutter" class starship so bad!
Warp drive does NOT require a warp core. The core generates the power needed for larger vessels and higher warp speeds. The nacelles create the warp field. Romulan dderadex uses a singularity for power. Small shuttles use fusion reactors.
STD is a big pile of BS anyway!!!
Because its not Star Trek you can make up all sorts. There's no connection to the original Star Trek universe.
Future ships will be powered by social principles, blue hair and booty positivity!
Much love guys. 💜💜💜😊💋
Somehow I think Romulans wouldn't be likely to just give up on quantum singularity completely, unless it would be extremly to unreasonably costly to uphold that technology somehow.
I could imagine that dillithium based warp drives would be cheaper, since they seem to be less advanced in the core tech itself, but at least I think with the opportunity to venture into Romulan space after Nemesis and for sure after Hobus Super Nova, I could imagine that Starfleet would do everything to be able to research that tech for themselves.
To be fair here: It probably would require to develop completely new types and classes of ships, if Starfleet would've been able to utilize this tech.
But We never had any indication in one direction or the other, so this is just a thought. But something I think is worth considering?
And also: There are starbases utilizing warp drive? Well okay, it does make sense for high energy operations, such as frontier R&D. And since warp drive is basically a matter/antimatter reactor it does makes sense, depending on the purpose. correct me, if I'm wrong.
A song... so it was a harmonic frequency that caused the problem. SINGING IS NOW FORBIDDEN UNDER PENALTY OF DEATH.
the burn IS a stupid plotline! i dont mind the event itself, but how it is handled in discovery..
1) it does not make sence that the federation is not able to come up with an alternative in more than 100 years!
2) even if all the dil has ignited, everyone still has dil, and it is even used as currency lol
3) zefram cochrane bulded the 1st warpengine and since there is no dil on earth, he did it without dil!
4) the bajorans had spacetravel with solar sails. better than nothing imo..
5) the queen in season 2, knew a way to recrystallize dil - i guesss she never told anyone how this works lol
6) michaels real mom builded a suit, in THIS timeline, that can move through time AND SPACE
7) in previous canon, dil was no powersource.. just used to stabilize something, that has to do with the warpcore.. in discovery, they call it a powersource!
..just another stupid plot, of a stupid season, of stupid show
Something else that people forget, Dilithium doesn't power the warp core- it helps regulate the Matter/Antimatter reaction that does power it (and most other high level energy sources in the Alpha/Beta quadrants). It going inert doesn't mean the power stops working, it means the way its known to use the primary power source stops working- and all those active Matter/Antimatter reactions go out of control.
Essentially, imagine if in a car the fuel injector/regulator systems goes out, and the gasoline mini-explosions that make the car go vrooom suddenly ignites all the gasoline in the tank for every car (truck, motorcycle, generator, ship, etc) that's turned on with the engine running. Like that- but with fucking antimatter, galaxy-wide.
(With regards to Romulan ships- they are powered by singularities, but that doesn't mean they don't use warp cores, just use a different power source... which could require dilithium to work. (I mean, they were mining dilithium for some reason.))
DISCO IS AWESOME, it really is, I understand if some people would not like it, but sometimes I even read comments like Disco is not even Star Trek anymore, which is not true! This is a 50 or more years old universe, continuity issues would come up of course, but Disco is awesome. I felt like I have to stand up for it, cuz I really like this channel.
Yet the Romulans, who use artificial singularities to power their ships, would be fine. I would have seen Starfleet adopting those as an alternative powersource should conventional matter/anti-matter reactors become unreliable.
Plus, given the destruction of the Hobus star and the supposed collapse of the Romulan Empire, it would probably lead to such technologies becoming more readily available to the Federation (Or maybe the Romulans would have siezed the opportunity to invade the rest of the Alpha & Beta Quadrants) But I digress...
So far I am not upset about that. Dilithium was never shown to be volatile, far from it in fact, but I am open minded on the subject...it could be that a way to convert Dilithium to Trilithium was discovered and implemented. We know that is where trilithium comes from, so if it did happen, the destruction of the ship would erase the evidence. My problem is Starfleet still using this technology in this time period. Even in Voyager's time, over six hundred years prior they were looking into new Warp technologies and getting very close. Voyager was basically a goodie bag of new tech from the Delta Quadrant. In 600+ years, why wasn't that new technology standard. They even had time portals on Earth, what about those? Space and time are linked, and from their name I would assume they operate like a Stargate in that series, so wouldn't it be easy to retrofit that to interstellar transit? Also, I think Daniels mentions the Romulans being apart of the Federation at this point (I think). Not sure if they would be running around taking over anything. Honestly, the show likes to leave more questions than answers, and we've seen this in Abhams TV, and when we get answers they are half baked. The way this show has run so far, I doubt they would all the sudden get plots points that make since or work.