If you read between the lines, the Federation does use time travel *very sparingly* to gather historical knowledge from earth's past. I would assume they do this to recover knowledge that was lost in times of war, dark ages, periods of history-written-by-the-victors, etc. The only episode that clearly states this is the case is original series, season 2 episode 26, "Assignment Earth" - the episode with Gary Seven. The Enterprise time travels to 1968 for the express purpose of historical research, where they encounter Gary Seven. Shenanigans ensue. I assume the practice is continued in the 24th century; if not, the Federation probably feels the historical record is complete by now, or it is too dangerous to continue.
In STO Daniel's says that the federation build a temporal observation array in the gamma quadrant around the 27th century, so that it would catch anyone trying an unauthorized time travel.
The explanation goes on to say that the more primitive time travel tech used by Future Guy is harder to detect so that's why it was used, to avoid detection by the temporal observation array.
The orb of time is a real mess, to be honest. The way the orbs were introduced, I don't think that people actually were sent through time. That is the whole point of an orb experience, they way I understand. You get specific informations and revelations for yourself, but outsiders would never get involved, so if the orb of time actually would send you through time, it would be a big retcon.
@@DerBeppone Actually, I found it interesting because in the worm hole... The statement from the beings there is that time is not linear.... They simply look at all things you do as part of your existence.... Past present and future... No difference.... And this was what Q may have been referring to in the final ep of ST TNG where he talks about exploring the different levels of existence.... As sure as there are places in the universe where time is linear.... There may also be places where time is circular and like the place where Dr. Soren and Guinan were so happy (Nexus)... That level of existence is for those who only experience time in a linear way as a real challenge
@@DerBeppone They literally bring Tribbles back from the past so yeah, Orb of Time legitimately sends you through time. Sometimes physically, sometimes qauntum leap style. It's not a stretch. Time is nothing to the Prophets.
Off topic we finally find out what happened to the Voyager crew after their return to earth in the autobiography of Kathryn Janeway and yes Harry Kim is promoted to captain along with Chakotay. Tuvok return to Vulcan got himself cured by mind melding with a Vulcan high priest spent time with his family then returns to Starfleet intelligence. The Doctor and thanks to his emitter creates a new EMH program where EMH doctors can beam down with a away team and move freely around the ship. Basically every starship and warship has two doctors. Seven of Nine heads up Starfleet's anti Borg division and invents a nanoprobe that stops someone being assimilated. Tom and B.Elanna leave Starfleet and have a son and another daughter
@@BlazingOwnager There is a chapter or section based on it, where she justifies it as feeling she owed a lot to the families of Tuvok and Neelix, over that of a new born with no ties, I recall. Also, a lot of the book may be contradicted by this new 'Protege' TV series or whatever, featuring Mulgrew, as Picard contradicted the Picard Autobiography.
Future Guy COULD travel back physically but doesn't want to because of the negative side effects to his health . technically Daniels also didn't go back physically most of the times we saw him it was an advanced hologram of him . and also he often sent Archer on missions since going himself or sending people from the far future would be harmful to their health since molecules don't like to be in a different time to where they originated
IIRC at some point daniels explains that some species could send agents back while others merely could communicate through time. Future guy seems to def fall into the latter category. Later on we see Archer travelling back incognito but he obviously wasn't the same person or using their tech.
@@haraldhimmel5687 Daniel was once vaporized by Silik yet somehow didnt die . And it looked as if he was some sort of advanced hologram in that episode
@@NitpickingNerd The advanced hologram part was IMHO his tools he used in his quarters and such. Also him reappearing could be explained by the cold war changing the timeline. In fact he died and reappeared later too bc of that.
Captain Picard: time travel is temporal physics. Doctor Who: it's all timey wimey (audience cheers) cadet: See That's How You Describe Time Travel Dick lol
Everyone remembers that quote but they forget the latter half of the episode. "This is my timey-whimey detector... It goes **ding** when there's STUFF!" "...Also it can boil an egg at ten paces, whether or not I want to in fact so I've learned to stay away from HENS." **Deep breath** "It's not pretty when they blow..."
Yes, even for the Doctor, there are events that have side effects. Those only happen if time is not in flux all over the universe. If it was, that side effect would not happen to the hens.@@Reddotzebra
5:40 I think thats why the temporal cold war played such a role in the events of Enterprise even in other Trek shows , its obvious that the 22nd century is the time travel playground
Of course it is. It literally eats you from the inside. Time fucking grows you just enough for you to start dying. It is technically a predator Without time there would be no need for food or water since no energy would be used
I like to think Future Guy uses this tech this way to possibly hide his actions. Daniels knows about him, but he never just "grabs/arrests" him. Perhaps because Future Guy covers his tracks this way. We see that Archer manages to easily go back in time with Daniel's help, so the tech is not that primitive, but used conservetivly. It's like going slow and quiet to not be discovered.
I do like JJ Abrams explanation that every time travel event that changes events creates a split dimension. Not hard to believe dimensions can get a bit crowded so they need to stop creating them, causing a dark age for temporal sciences
3:34 I like to think the original owner of the pod took it back home or at the very least another future faction took it back letting the events of the episode play out while preserving the timeline.
The 'Inventor' said that it was going to return back to his time - nothing was changed.. I guess its possible they picked it up - that's what I assume atleast.
My immediate thought on future guy is that he's using a different tech that would make it more difficult to trace him. Sorta similar to the idea you mention in the video, now that I've reached it.
If Enterprises had gotten the 7 season treatment like it was supposed to, Tapol would've been half Romulan and it would've been revealed that the 28th century future guy was really Archer using Daniel's tech to fix something he felt he did wrong and save Trip or something like that, been too long to remember. Basically, it was the same over-all idea they rehashed for the end of Voyager; go back to the past and change the future. Clearly NO McFly's have ever been enlisted in Star Fleet history, LOL...
Maybe somebody even more advanced imposed restrictions on time travel? The Organians once put a unilateral stop to a war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, seemingly just because they felt like it. Maybe they, or even somebody more powerful like the Q, got annoyed with all the temporal antics (and having to clean up after them) that when multiple temporal powers started weaponizing time travel they were fed up and imposed an absolute ban - under threat of non-existence for anyone who broke the rules?
I think the Borg Queen is an entity that exists in four dimensions, while all the drones exist only in the usual three dimensions. It would explain how she can be repeatedly killed and always come back. Also, through her, the Borg would be a "temporal power".
Never forget the temporal prime directive.. :D Instated probably after all the mishaps with Kirk (they even almost state as much in the trials and tribble-ations episode of DS9)
There was no temporal prime directive in the TNG/DS9/VOY era. In the TNG "matter of time" episode Lore mentioned in the video Picard has a nice debate with Rasmussen about it.
Starfleet implemented General Order 157 {also known as the : "Temporal Prime Directive" } which was mentioned in the Voyager episode "Futures End". The reason that this was implemented was because predicting the outcome of changing the past is a "Computationally Hard" problem because there are too many variables in play (both known and unknown) that could effect the outcome. In trying to prevent an event, you will likely create a worse situation than the one you were trying to avoid.
Yes, you might try to halt an ancient alien race from invading the galaxy and get Romulus back from the dead and instead you end up with a full scale Borg invasion, and then you fix that but end up accidentally erasing an entire species from local space-time. Things like that...
Wibbly wobbly timey wimey... you're assuming at each of these events that we're seeing the completed timeline! When Voyager goes back to the 1990s, it's at least their 2nd time there as they were unsuccessful the first time and that's what made Braxton send them there in the first place...
There's another theory for Future Guy: He's not actually in the future, but somewhere outside of time. It's something we've seen a few other times in the franchise. So he can witness events change and be aware of them without becoming apart of them directly. Sort of an instant "see the results of your actions as you take them." Just a personal theory though, maybe there's holes in it.
Im sure he would he seems to be from the later decades of the 22nd century (post 2161) since he seems to know of the federation he probably grew up during the 2150s when Archer was exploring or not long after his voyage finshed
@@KingOfLesbia I can only imagine so as time travel was considered literally impossible before the events of enterprise as seen when Daniels and the Vulcan high council can’t fathom that he’s telling the truth
did Daniels ever confirm that the guy directing Silic was from the 28th century? I remember him mentioning many factions as well...so was that guy from the 28th for sure? And even if he was, was he from a faction with a lot of resources or not? Also, even in the 24th we know starfleet had temporal investigators...the beginning of them attempting to control and tampering with the timeline. This was likely a result of Kirk and his crew purposefully going back in time...though their actions saved earth, I'm sure some were concerned about even well meaning time travelers messing things up.
Didn't Daniels describe the 22nd Century as a "front" in the Temporal Cold War? I'd guess that maybe Rasmussen got his hands on the pod after some Temporal Cold War belligerent was careless in some way.
don't forget that in the one episode where Daniel's says they couldn't track the alien nazis because they used a new timetravrl method, so that must mean the 28th century guy didn't want to be tracked when he time traveled
Could be what happened is just like with the Organians, the federation pissed off some super advanced species that put a stop to the time jump altogether. Or like with the spore drive, the 26th century discovered time travel was far far more dangerous than first thought. Or another explanation is someone way way in the future erected barriers to prevent transitioning through time, barriers these other centuries could barely traverse. Or time travel was stopped when the fan base beat the daylights out of the writers.
the problem with time travel stuff is split timelines. in a 26th century there might be time travel all over the place, but in another it might not exist. in one timeline the federation might exist and safeguard time, in another it might not deal with time and in another they might exploit time travel. all of this is separate from the logic issues that crop up with time travel as well, which means that when writing sci-fi you should avoid such a plot device.
The Future guy is HIDING from the temporal accords. His type of time travel is difficult to trace and find the source of the travel. Where if you take a ship back in time and change events... That leaves ripples and traces in the timeline. Usually a large impact in the timeline with great changes, if its bad enough. What Future Guy was doing would have given a large ripple and timeline change. So his method of achieving his goals was to use the "transmission" type of time travel to talk to the Suliban. Also do not forget that apparently Enterprise is part of the effects of "Star Trek : First Contact" Meaning that its a alternate universe to the Cannon STTNG universe. The timeship aeon etc... If you notice their uniforms look Very section 31 !! like .
According to the Vulcan Science Directorate, Time Travel is not possible....but then again what do Vulcans know? I mean they thought Reunification is not possible and that they caused the burn....
The Tox Uthat isn't really a weapon of mass destruction, it can be used as one sure, but that's not its main purpose. It's a stellar manipulator, a really advanced model even, might even be able to give the Hand of Omega a run for its money, if you can hook it up to a big enough power source.
The Hand Of Omega would still beat it out. That thing makes black holes, after all, out of any star. I doubt the Tox Uthat could do that. All it could do at full power, is collapse a star, not collapse a star, and turn it into another form.
28th century guy uses a hologram projected back through time so there's no detectable trace of a physical time traveller. And a 29th or 31st century Starfleet wouldn't interfere with a 26th century time traveller because from their point of view that matter has already been resolved and needs no intervention
Well obviously the federation has to stop using time travel for Discovery season 3 to make any sense as nobody there are time travelers. The burn wouldn't have been a mystery because there would have been a time agent likely going back to fix everything unless that was a fixed point but you've really got to wonder how they determine the timeline is wrong since the effects should be instantaneous and unrecognizable. Apparently someone somewhere always knows the timeline has changed for the story to work. I dont think the time agents are bias either it's just a factor of story and audience perspective. The writers are thinking about how a big change effects the main characters of the show and the federation or environment around them. The story is focused on them and how they react to the situation so as a result it comes off bias toward the federation. An important factor in these stories is how the characters are going to fix what's been done especially in a show that is often wrapped up neatly by the end of the episode.
They have temporal shielding, which makes it possible for them to not be affected by the changes in the timeline. They were for example installed on the Krenim Weapon you can see in one of the Voyager episodes, (I don't know which one) so they wouldnt be affected by timeline changes.
@@shebe922 sure its a needed device for the story to make sense. I'm sure they were cautious about using the same story formulas again. There's a few questions though of how that device actually works.
@@AmazingKevinWClark Yeah I agree with you on that, but at least they gave an explanation instead of doing nothing, its kinda like the Universal translator, its just needed for the story to work
@@shebe922 yes there are many writing devices like that which writers will use but my main point was to show how story elements like this is why the time agents appear bias because the story structure revolves around the main characters.
Well, most of the debate is moot. The 26th century time pod from the TNG doesn't really factor into any of the other time travel events/stipulations at all. It simply wasn't a sanctioned federation craft, so to speak. Rather, it was built by a 26th century inventor/historian, ala Doc Brown, who had the misfortune of coming to a nefarious end while travelling back in time. And if the actions of Rasmussen didn't actually damage the timeline, future enforcers would let everything play out just as it had. When the pod returned home without Rasmussen, it likely returned to wherever/whenever in the 22nd century in a manner that didn't actually harm the timeline - possibly a hidden location where it might lay undiscovered (or never discovered to be what it actually was) for ages, possibly even destroyed by unrelated events - or perhaps once found, it perhaps laid the groundwork to improve future time travel tech in that timeline - exactly as the timeline was meant to occur.
Maybe future guy I don't have access to a Time pod maybe only official Starfleet historians do and that's who asked Newton killed and the pod from him eventually I think it would go back to its point of origin if none of the controls were touched for very long or no one come into it I mean last meeting might be able to figure out how to manually work it but I doubt he could reprogram the thing so I think eventually it'll go back to the point of origin and then the time agents will go clean up the timeline don't leave the 24th century people alone because they're responsible enough to know about it but any 22nd or 21st century people that find out their memories will probably be erased
The temporal prime directive and I doubt Captain McCart even knew about the original Constitution enterprises time travel stuff it was probably classified I'm sure that if Earth would have lost the Dominion war section 31 would have considered time travel
Yours keeps popping up in my recommendations but I can never get through a third of your videos because the title, premise, setup seems interesting at first but then dives into the meta-verse without any real understanding of one simple truth; These series are a conglomerate of writers with their presumptions of how things in the future, in this case time travel, works, when no one person actually understands it outside the realm of Einstein’s relativity. You’re trying to make sense of a fictitious story that’s simply meant to be entertaining and cool... RUclips is a great way to make money...but, the deeper you dive into analyzing, re-analyzing, and ultimately over-analyzing them... makes me switch channels once you begin. I’ll subscribe because initially I’m interested, and hopefully wait for one piece of work that actually hits an actual truth.
Time travel becomes illegal to try to stop the kelvin timeline, they failed. Alternatively it could be to prevent temporal conquest. Unless you're making an mmo you dont want Infinite terran empires fighting infinite federations fighting infinite klingon empires fighting infinite borg fighting infinite vulcan romulan coalitons fighting infinite cardassians fighting....
@@LoreReloaded I think temporal terrorism and infinite war would be harmful. Out of trek its nice to keep time travel limited and special so the shows can have continuity
You can't Sarah conor people in star trek . Daniel said that it takes time for the changes to reach thr future and all the future man would have to do is time travel to another time protecting himself from thr Shockwave like Daniel did when he brought archer to the future destroying the federation in the process. He didn't really exist, but he did because he was protected by whatever tech they use.
It makes more sense that these time travelers would come form diffent timeliness so a 28th century time traveler with poor tech from pervious eras would would sense. One 22nd century would be different for another. This means guarding and restricting time travel is meaningless. Because it would just mean a new time line is made. The people in star trek probably haven't figured it out yet, as how could you as these time lines might be to similar to tell? This might be horrifying because you will never return to your true home. Just a copy.
As Q told Picard (oh I don't how many times) time is not linear. Time can move in many different directions and most of humanity doesn't matter in the grand scheme of the universe. And losing the tech to time travel is very possible, look at earth's own dark ages and the types of tech lost from Europe. Look at the endless conquest of Eygpt and what we still don't know from there. The loss of knowledge and ability of Mayan culture and the simple fact we don't know how some cultures did certain things, and centuries later ee can't replicate them.
So auto return was set to 26th? Why would he not return to his time are better yet before he left so if he fails a ship with no one in it comes back then he just looks at the audio video log. Then all he need to do is set auto return to 30 sec but tell them it is 1 min. I always did think he set it back to his time.
As for calling it Apathy or a Dark Age: I would say they finally learned "temporal responsibility". There is just too many ways in wich time travel can mess up. They had a whole temporal war behind themself. Any legitimate use for time travel, was overshadowed by it's dangers. It would be banned just like fission reactors, fossile fuel use and genetic engineering.
Small nit-pick, but genetic engineering wasn't full on outlawed, since it was still permitted for use in medicine to correct genetic illnesses. It would be more accurate to say that Genetic Enhancement was outlawed, using the technology to grant unnatural abilities for one's species or to boost natural ones.
In STO, Future Guy is a Krenim called "Noy" who is attempting to exact revenge for his lost lover and prove the hypocrisy of the Federation and its allies. His lover was a member of the Yuterian species who became trapped in another dimension after a temporal blunder occurred during the Federation's attempts to stop the Iconian War in their favour. It was he who managed to organize the Temporal Liberation Front, a union of; Sphere Builder, Krenim, Vorgon, Terran and Na'kuhl forces who opposed the Temporal Accords of the 27th century.
Not that there is much logic to most time travel in trek but "future guy" simply sucked. They were one of those menial time travel species who basically could only communicate through time. Nowhere does it say that he is human nor that he had access to federation tech. Not to mention that during the temporal cold war the timelines were heavily in flux. And as far as I am concerned, what happened in discovery stays in discovery, especially their mindless time travel stuff.
I sweat Star Trek pulled their concepts of time travel out of their asses. I'm inclined to believe in the concept of the Flux Capacitor before I believe you can time travel simply because you sling shotted around the sun.
Supposedly it distorts of inverts the subspace bubble around the warpdrive, and lets it bypass a buildup of Hawking radiation whilst passing backwards through a lightcone - to, ah, paraphrase from recent novels, @Studa Baker .
Lol there are real life theories about extremely warped spacetime making time travel possible. Now of course this stuff generally requires something infinitely so it's impossible but slingshotting around the sun is at least sorta grounded?
smh this just goes to say the creators of enterprise did no do good research when doing this show...they should have watched all episodes of previous shows...and go above and beyond read all books etc.....
Your line of reasoning about Future Man is severely flawed. Why would Future Man place himself at risk by being physically present with the Suliban when he could manipulate them remotely from the comfort of his own century in perfect anonymity?
What is wrong with time travel in star trek is no real rules are cost to it are set up , There needs to be a high cost something that stops it from becoming why not just use time travel witch is easy and care free with no cost ever.
Time travel is stupid. You could literally fix anything. Wolf 359? Send back in time a flotilla of Borg fighting ships from 100 years forward of then. Send someone back to tell the Odyssey NOT to got through the worm hole. The list goes on. If you can fix anything nothing has any merit or meaning. Time travel is supposed to be impossible but if you are going to do it, make it so hard no one does it. The only real concession to time travel should be being able to look back in time clearly, not actually go back in time. Leave actual time travel to hyper-advanced species and civilizations, like the Q.
If you "fix" things like that, then they didn't happen, and you've not only split yourself off into a new timeline, the */- of any particular event are lost to you in the new timeline. While I'm loathe to say this, look at the Kelvinverse...it split off from the Prime one and while it has similarities, it's developed in a new direction.
“What is *with* you people? Time machines are *nothing* but trouble. Even *we* know that.” - Colonel Jack O’Neill, Stargate SG-1
Good one 🖖🏼
Nice how's you short game, Jack?
Wibbly wobbly, timey wimey...
The Vulcan Science Directorate has determined that time travel is impossible but whatever.
*every alternate timeline version of Starfleet*
About that...
@@Mate397 including their own 🤣
What do you think of the planet (name) with both Vulcans and Romulans on it?
@@Seinghesa im not a fan of STD except tilly, but ill still watch it because its star trek.
Officially.
If you read between the lines, the Federation does use time travel *very sparingly* to gather historical knowledge from earth's past. I would assume they do this to recover knowledge that was lost in times of war, dark ages, periods of history-written-by-the-victors, etc.
The only episode that clearly states this is the case is original series, season 2 episode 26, "Assignment Earth" - the episode with Gary Seven. The Enterprise time travels to 1968 for the express purpose of historical research, where they encounter Gary Seven. Shenanigans ensue.
I assume the practice is continued in the 24th century; if not, the Federation probably feels the historical record is complete by now, or it is too dangerous to continue.
In STO Daniel's says that the federation build a temporal observation array in the gamma quadrant around the 27th century, so that it would catch anyone trying an unauthorized time travel.
I guess someone is sleeping on the job. Am I right?
Well they did a shit job
@@Mate397 It's as impossible to stop someone from abusing it as it us adverting a well planned crime.
The explanation goes on to say that the more primitive time travel tech used by Future Guy is harder to detect so that's why it was used, to avoid detection by the temporal observation array.
Please remember the DS 9 Episode where you had tribble issues and the orb of time and the bureau of temporal investigations....
I was wondering why they didn't come up. That seemed very relevant.
and also that episode where Kira tried to kill Dukat and her own mother
The orb of time is a real mess, to be honest. The way the orbs were introduced, I don't think that people actually were sent through time. That is the whole point of an orb experience, they way I understand. You get specific informations and revelations for yourself, but outsiders would never get involved, so if the orb of time actually would send you through time, it would be a big retcon.
@@DerBeppone Actually, I found it interesting because in the worm hole... The statement from the beings there is that time is not linear....
They simply look at all things you do as part of your existence.... Past present and future... No difference....
And this was what Q may have been referring to in the final ep of ST TNG where he talks about exploring the different levels of existence....
As sure as there are places in the universe where time is linear.... There may also be places where time is circular and like the place where Dr. Soren and Guinan were so happy (Nexus)... That level of existence is for those who only experience time in a linear way as a real challenge
@@DerBeppone They literally bring Tribbles back from the past so yeah, Orb of Time legitimately sends you through time. Sometimes physically, sometimes qauntum leap style.
It's not a stretch. Time is nothing to the Prophets.
Off topic we finally find out what happened to the Voyager crew after their return to earth in the autobiography of Kathryn Janeway and yes Harry Kim is promoted to captain along with Chakotay. Tuvok return to Vulcan got himself cured by mind melding with a Vulcan high priest spent time with his family then returns to Starfleet intelligence. The Doctor and thanks to his emitter creates a new EMH program where EMH doctors can beam down with a away team and move freely around the ship. Basically every starship and warship has two doctors. Seven of Nine heads up Starfleet's anti Borg division and invents a nanoprobe that stops someone being assimilated. Tom and B.Elanna leave Starfleet and have a son and another daughter
Did Janeway get her bipolar disorder looked at?
@@red8ball864 bipolar disorder?
@@red8ball864 Did she serve hard labor for murdering Tuvix?
@@BlazingOwnager There is a chapter or section based on it, where she justifies it as feeling she owed a lot to the families of Tuvok and Neelix, over that of a new born with no ties, I recall.
Also, a lot of the book may be contradicted by this new 'Protege' TV series or whatever, featuring Mulgrew, as Picard contradicted the Picard Autobiography.
@@chrissonofpear1384 I can only say this in my best Odo impersonation, "Justifications for murder doesn't change the fact it's murder."
You mess with time it tends to mess back.
Future Guy COULD travel back physically but doesn't want to because of the negative side effects to his health . technically Daniels also didn't go back physically most of the times we saw him it was an advanced hologram of him . and also he often sent Archer on missions since going himself or sending people from the far future would be harmful to their health since molecules don't like to be in a different time to where they originated
IIRC at some point daniels explains that some species could send agents back while others merely could communicate through time. Future guy seems to def fall into the latter category. Later on we see Archer travelling back incognito but he obviously wasn't the same person or using their tech.
@@haraldhimmel5687 Daniel was once vaporized by Silik yet somehow didnt die . And it looked as if he was some sort of advanced hologram in that episode
@@NitpickingNerd The advanced hologram part was IMHO his tools he used in his quarters and such. Also him reappearing could be explained by the cold war changing the timeline. In fact he died and reappeared later too bc of that.
Captain Picard: time travel is temporal physics. Doctor Who: it's all timey wimey (audience cheers) cadet: See That's How You Describe Time Travel Dick lol
Everyone remembers that quote but they forget the latter half of the episode.
"This is my timey-whimey detector... It goes **ding** when there's STUFF!"
"...Also it can boil an egg at ten paces, whether or not I want to in fact so I've learned to stay away from HENS."
**Deep breath**
"It's not pretty when they blow..."
Yes, even for the Doctor, there are events that have side effects.
Those only happen if time is not in flux all over the universe. If it was, that side effect would not happen to the hens.@@Reddotzebra
Seriously love all Time Travel stuff. Ever since I was I kid. Keep them coming!
5:40 I think thats why the temporal cold war played such a role in the events of Enterprise
even in other Trek shows , its obvious that the 22nd century is the time travel playground
Future guy may simply have to using a some sort of dissimulator to make his transmission impossible to locate or intercepted
He's using the DSL version of time travel messaging as opposed to fiber optic.
Thanks again, knocked it out of the box again! Love your time traveling episodes of episodes.
someone once told me that time is a predator
Because time is the fire...in which we *BURN*
It's a shame that movie was such ass. Malcolm McDowell is awesome.
I could only see him as Admiral Tolwyn that whole movie, though.
@@BlazingOwnager It was half decent - just rather choppy.
Of course it is.
It literally eats you from the inside.
Time fucking grows you just enough for you to start dying.
It is technically a predator
Without time there would be no need for food or water since no energy would be used
I like to think Future Guy uses this tech this way to possibly hide his actions. Daniels knows about him, but he never just "grabs/arrests" him. Perhaps because Future Guy covers his tracks this way. We see that Archer manages to easily go back in time with Daniel's help, so the tech is not that primitive, but used conservetivly. It's like going slow and quiet to not be discovered.
Time travel. Just because you can dosen't mean you should.
Time travel. Just because you're going to doesn't mean you did.
@@Corbomite_Meatballs 😁😉
"Where we're going, we don't need roads!"
- Factually accurate statement about the Federation
Just because you can't, doesn't mean you shouldn't try.
It's all timey wimey
Best description of time travel ever
Basil Exposition: "I suggest you don't worry about this sort of thing and just enjoy yourself."
Nah, funner this way
0:44 - Actually, they pretty much did. They established the Temporal Prime Directive.
I do like JJ Abrams explanation that every time travel event that changes events creates a split dimension. Not hard to believe dimensions can get a bit crowded so they need to stop creating them, causing a dark age for temporal sciences
Love the time travel and alternate time line and alternate universe stuff.
3:34 I like to think the original owner of the pod took it back home or at the very least another future faction took it back letting the events of the episode play out while preserving the timeline.
The 'Inventor' said that it was going to return back to his time - nothing was changed.. I guess its possible they picked it up - that's what I assume atleast.
Maybe they've come back in time for a copy of Crysis 3.. to see if it will run in their holodeck
Lol
For two people that didn't get along at all off screen Insane Way and Spandex of Nine had good on screen chemistry.
They didn't get along?
They really did have good on screen chemistry. I think they were both key in developing the Janeway and Seven characters.
@@Gomjibar ruclips.net/video/IiY0KdwSShk/видео.html
It's all TIMEY WAYMY WIBBLY WOBBLY....Stuff.
Lol keep up the epic work respect.
I saw the thumbnail and thought "What's Bricktop doing in Star Trek?"
My immediate thought on future guy is that he's using a different tech that would make it more difficult to trace him. Sorta similar to the idea you mention in the video, now that I've reached it.
5:12 - *cough cough the Suliban *cough cough
If Enterprises had gotten the 7 season treatment like it was supposed to, Tapol would've been half Romulan and it would've been revealed that the 28th century future guy was really Archer using Daniel's tech to fix something he felt he did wrong and save Trip or something like that, been too long to remember. Basically, it was the same over-all idea they rehashed for the end of Voyager; go back to the past and change the future. Clearly NO McFly's have ever been enlisted in Star Fleet history, LOL...
Maybe somebody even more advanced imposed restrictions on time travel? The Organians once put a unilateral stop to a war between the Federation and the Klingon Empire, seemingly just because they felt like it. Maybe they, or even somebody more powerful like the Q, got annoyed with all the temporal antics (and having to clean up after them) that when multiple temporal powers started weaponizing time travel they were fed up and imposed an absolute ban - under threat of non-existence for anyone who broke the rules?
I think the Borg Queen is an entity that exists in four dimensions, while all the drones exist only in the usual three dimensions. It would explain how she can be repeatedly killed and always come back. Also, through her, the Borg would be a "temporal power".
Never forget the temporal prime directive.. :D Instated probably after all the mishaps with Kirk (they even almost state as much in the trials and tribble-ations episode of DS9)
There was no temporal prime directive in the TNG/DS9/VOY era. In the TNG "matter of time" episode Lore mentioned in the video Picard has a nice debate with Rasmussen about it.
If you don't remember it you should rewatch it, it's pretty great, it was a peak Picard scene.
ruclips.net/video/K2U4pssEqHY/видео.html
@@Bitchslapper316 There was,,, Janeway mentioned it to herself during the last episodes of VOY..
memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Temporal_Prime_Directive
Atleast it was suggested to be well established in the 24th century. I mean in DS9 Sisko awaited the timepolice as it were
Starfleet implemented General Order 157 {also known as the : "Temporal Prime Directive" } which was mentioned in the Voyager episode "Futures End". The reason that this was implemented was because predicting the outcome of changing the past is a "Computationally Hard" problem because there are too many variables in play (both known and unknown) that could effect the outcome. In trying to prevent an event, you will likely create a worse situation than the one you were trying to avoid.
Yes, you might try to halt an ancient alien race from invading the galaxy and get Romulus back from the dead and instead you end up with a full scale Borg invasion, and then you fix that but end up accidentally erasing an entire species from local space-time.
Things like that...
Wibbly wobbly timey wimey... you're assuming at each of these events that we're seeing the completed timeline!
When Voyager goes back to the 1990s, it's at least their 2nd time there as they were unsuccessful the first time and that's what made Braxton send them there in the first place...
That ship was sent to the 22nd century ? well thats one way to explain how the NX 01 looks so more advanced than the NCC 1701 of the 23rd century
There's another theory for Future Guy: He's not actually in the future, but somewhere outside of time. It's something we've seen a few other times in the franchise. So he can witness events change and be aware of them without becoming apart of them directly. Sort of an instant "see the results of your actions as you take them." Just a personal theory though, maybe there's holes in it.
So Rasmussen would probably know captain archer I’m guessing
Im sure he would he seems to be from the later decades of the 22nd century (post 2161) since he seems to know of the federation he probably grew up during the 2150s when Archer was exploring or not long after his voyage finshed
@@KingOfLesbia I can only imagine so as time travel was considered literally impossible before the events of enterprise as seen when Daniels and the Vulcan high council can’t fathom that he’s telling the truth
did Daniels ever confirm that the guy directing Silic was from the 28th century? I remember him mentioning many factions as well...so was that guy from the 28th for sure? And even if he was, was he from a faction with a lot of resources or not? Also, even in the 24th we know starfleet had temporal investigators...the beginning of them attempting to control and tampering with the timeline. This was likely a result of Kirk and his crew purposefully going back in time...though their actions saved earth, I'm sure some were concerned about even well meaning time travelers messing things up.
This is why I hate time travel tropes. They break everything they touch. I don't care what franchise or who is at the helm. Don't. Just don't.
I know what you mean. Every time travel episode requires HYOOJ suspension of disbelief.
Didn't Daniels describe the 22nd Century as a "front" in the Temporal Cold War? I'd guess that maybe Rasmussen got his hands on the pod after some Temporal Cold War belligerent was careless in some way.
That’s possible for sure
don't forget that in the one episode where Daniel's says they couldn't track the alien nazis because they used a new timetravrl method, so that must mean the 28th century guy didn't want to be tracked when he time traveled
One party covering up any meddling by doing it around a bunch of other people doing their own meddling.
it should be noted with Time Travel, Timeline Changes are bound to happen so that could explain most of the inconsistencies
What did he mean by Braxtons would all be reintegrated in time for the trial?
Could be what happened is just like with the Organians, the federation pissed off some super advanced species that put a stop to the time jump altogether. Or like with the spore drive, the 26th century discovered time travel was far far more dangerous than first thought. Or another explanation is someone way way in the future erected barriers to prevent transitioning through time, barriers these other centuries could barely traverse.
Or time travel was stopped when the fan base beat the daylights out of the writers.
the problem with time travel stuff is split timelines. in a 26th century there might be time travel all over the place, but in another it might not exist. in one timeline the federation might exist and safeguard time, in another it might not deal with time and in another they might exploit time travel. all of this is separate from the logic issues that crop up with time travel as well, which means that when writing sci-fi you should avoid such a plot device.
Forgot Kermit was in TNG.
The Future guy is HIDING from the temporal accords. His type of time travel is difficult to trace and find the source of the travel. Where if you take a ship back in time and change events... That leaves ripples and traces in the timeline. Usually a large impact in the timeline with great changes, if its bad enough. What Future Guy was doing would have given a large ripple and timeline change. So his method of achieving his goals was to use the "transmission" type of time travel to talk to the Suliban.
Also do not forget that apparently Enterprise is part of the effects of "Star Trek : First Contact" Meaning that its a alternate universe to the Cannon STTNG universe.
The timeship aeon etc... If you notice their uniforms look Very section 31 !! like .
According to the Vulcan Science Directorate, Time Travel is not possible....but then again what do Vulcans know? I mean they thought Reunification is not possible and that they caused the burn....
The Tox Uthat isn't really a weapon of mass destruction, it can be used as one sure, but that's not its main purpose.
It's a stellar manipulator, a really advanced model even, might even be able to give the Hand of Omega a run for its money, if you can hook it up to a big enough power source.
The Hand Of Omega would still beat it out. That thing makes black holes, after all, out of any star.
I doubt the Tox Uthat could do that. All it could do at full power, is collapse a star, not collapse a star, and turn it into another form.
Damn it T'Pol!
Thanks
28th century guy uses a hologram projected back through time so there's no detectable trace of a physical time traveller.
And a 29th or 31st century Starfleet wouldn't interfere with a 26th century time traveller because from their point of view that matter has already been resolved and needs no intervention
Is it not possible that the 22nd Century is some kind of Temporal Fixed Point, and that's why so many people come from it when Time Traveling?
Well obviously the federation has to stop using time travel for Discovery season 3 to make any sense as nobody there are time travelers. The burn wouldn't have been a mystery because there would have been a time agent likely going back to fix everything unless that was a fixed point but you've really got to wonder how they determine the timeline is wrong since the effects should be instantaneous and unrecognizable. Apparently someone somewhere always knows the timeline has changed for the story to work. I dont think the time agents are bias either it's just a factor of story and audience perspective. The writers are thinking about how a big change effects the main characters of the show and the federation or environment around them. The story is focused on them and how they react to the situation so as a result it comes off bias toward the federation. An important factor in these stories is how the characters are going to fix what's been done especially in a show that is often wrapped up neatly by the end of the episode.
They have temporal shielding, which makes it possible for them to not be affected by the changes in the timeline. They were for example installed on the Krenim Weapon you can see in one of the Voyager episodes, (I don't know which one) so they wouldnt be affected by timeline changes.
@@shebe922 sure its a needed device for the story to make sense. I'm sure they were cautious about using the same story formulas again. There's a few questions though of how that device actually works.
@@AmazingKevinWClark Yeah I agree with you on that, but at least they gave an explanation instead of doing nothing, its kinda like the Universal translator, its just needed for the story to work
@@shebe922 yes there are many writing devices like that which writers will use but my main point was to show how story elements like this is why the time agents appear bias because the story structure revolves around the main characters.
Well, most of the debate is moot.
The 26th century time pod from the TNG doesn't really factor into any of the other time travel events/stipulations at all. It simply wasn't a sanctioned federation craft, so to speak. Rather, it was built by a 26th century inventor/historian, ala Doc Brown, who had the misfortune of coming to a nefarious end while travelling back in time. And if the actions of Rasmussen didn't actually damage the timeline, future enforcers would let everything play out just as it had.
When the pod returned home without Rasmussen, it likely returned to wherever/whenever in the 22nd century in a manner that didn't actually harm the timeline - possibly a hidden location where it might lay undiscovered (or never discovered to be what it actually was) for ages, possibly even destroyed by unrelated events - or perhaps once found, it perhaps laid the groundwork to improve future time travel tech in that timeline - exactly as the timeline was meant to occur.
Maybe future guy I don't have access to a Time pod maybe only official Starfleet historians do and that's who asked Newton killed and the pod from him eventually I think it would go back to its point of origin if none of the controls were touched for very long or no one come into it I mean last meeting might be able to figure out how to manually work it but I doubt he could reprogram the thing so I think eventually it'll go back to the point of origin and then the time agents will go clean up the timeline don't leave the 24th century people alone because they're responsible enough to know about it but any 22nd or 21st century people that find out their memories will probably be erased
Guinan is a time lord?
Of course they are a force for good! If you are humans or part of the Federation.
The temporal prime directive and I doubt Captain McCart even knew about the original Constitution enterprises time travel stuff it was probably classified I'm sure that if Earth would have lost the Dominion war section 31 would have considered time travel
Perhaps earth lost trh dominion war and section 31 time traveled.
Can't really know
How would they "reintegrate" someone whose they have 3 of from different points in time?
Use a transporter to merge their thought patterns and delete thr bodies i guess?
A lovely thing to mull over through dinner lol 😆 😋
DS9 Department of Temporal Affairs.
No explanation necessary.
It’s just an entertaining show meant to entertain ya nerds!
You don’t get the point of the channel .. how sad for you :(
Yours keeps popping up in my recommendations but I can never get through a third of your videos because the title, premise, setup seems interesting at first but then dives into the meta-verse without any real understanding of one simple truth;
These series are a conglomerate of writers with their presumptions of how things in the future, in this case time travel, works, when no one person actually understands it outside the realm of Einstein’s relativity.
You’re trying to make sense of a fictitious story that’s simply meant to be entertaining and cool... RUclips is a great way to make money...but, the deeper you dive into analyzing, re-analyzing, and ultimately over-analyzing them... makes me switch channels once you begin.
I’ll subscribe because initially I’m interested, and hopefully wait for one piece of work that actually hits an actual truth.
Time travel becomes illegal to try to stop the kelvin timeline, they failed. Alternatively it could be to prevent temporal conquest. Unless you're making an mmo you dont want Infinite terran empires fighting infinite federations fighting infinite klingon empires fighting infinite borg fighting infinite vulcan romulan coalitons fighting infinite cardassians fighting....
No it became illegal because it was dangerous and harmful
@@LoreReloaded And likely because the Temporal Cold War became just too potentially destructive on everyone.
@@LoreReloaded I think temporal terrorism and infinite war would be harmful. Out of trek its nice to keep time travel limited and special so the shows can have continuity
What if Future guy was hiding his identity so people couldn't "Sarah Connor" him?
You can't Sarah conor people in star trek .
Daniel said that it takes time for the changes to reach thr future and all the future man would have to do is time travel to another time protecting himself from thr Shockwave like Daniel did when he brought archer to the future destroying the federation in the process.
He didn't really exist, but he did because he was protected by whatever tech they use.
Which is why the whole Kelvin timeline is an utter joke.
There no real reason to assume that Rasmussen's pod was made by humans or the federation.
Civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr. was a big fan of Star Trek.
What does reintegration mean?
It makes more sense that these time travelers would come form diffent timeliness so a 28th century time traveler with poor tech from pervious eras would would sense. One 22nd century would be different for another. This means guarding and restricting time travel is meaningless. Because it would just mean a new time line is made. The people in star trek probably haven't figured it out yet, as how could you as these time lines might be to similar to tell? This might be horrifying because you will never return to your true home. Just a copy.
As Q told Picard (oh I don't how many times) time is not linear. Time can move in many different directions and most of humanity doesn't matter in the grand scheme of the universe. And losing the tech to time travel is very possible, look at earth's own dark ages and the types of tech lost from Europe. Look at the endless conquest of Eygpt and what we still don't know from there. The loss of knowledge and ability of Mayan culture and the simple fact we don't know how some cultures did certain things, and centuries later ee can't replicate them.
This assumes that time guy is human...
Well thanks to STD this timeline didn't happen only the Kelvin timeline. Maybe that was a result of the time wars. Tragic.
.. std went out of its way to show both this and the kelvin timeline occurred .. I’m guessing you didn’t watch the episode
@@LoreReloaded correct have not watched a minute and will not.
Personal I prefer traveling in parallel infinite multiverse
So auto return was set to 26th? Why would he not return to his time are better yet before he left so if he fails a ship with no one in it comes back then he just looks at the audio video log. Then all he need to do is set auto return to 30 sec but tell them it is 1 min. I always did think he set it back to his time.
It’s set for 22nd I assumed
Time travel is authorized by whales. GO FOR IT!
Time travel serious regulations pertaining to it
As for calling it Apathy or a Dark Age: I would say they finally learned "temporal responsibility".
There is just too many ways in wich time travel can mess up. They had a whole temporal war behind themself. Any legitimate use for time travel, was overshadowed by it's dangers. It would be banned just like fission reactors, fossile fuel use and genetic engineering.
Small nit-pick, but genetic engineering wasn't full on outlawed, since it was still permitted for use in medicine to correct genetic illnesses. It would be more accurate to say that Genetic Enhancement was outlawed, using the technology to grant unnatural abilities for one's species or to boost natural ones.
Like Stargate's Jack O'Neill once said": "What is with you people? Time machines are nothing but trouble, even we know that." :)
@@demogorgonzola He would say that after being stuck in a loop for months.
Future guy is Archer and he not from the 28th century
any evidence of that that’s on screen ?
In STO, Future Guy is a Krenim called "Noy" who is attempting to exact revenge for his lost lover and prove the hypocrisy of the Federation and its allies. His lover was a member of the Yuterian species who became trapped in another dimension after a temporal blunder occurred during the Federation's attempts to stop the Iconian War in their favour. It was he who managed to organize the Temporal Liberation Front, a union of; Sphere Builder, Krenim, Vorgon, Terran and Na'kuhl forces who opposed the Temporal Accords of the 27th century.
Not that there is much logic to most time travel in trek but "future guy" simply sucked. They were one of those menial time travel species who basically could only communicate through time. Nowhere does it say that he is human nor that he had access to federation tech. Not to mention that during the temporal cold war the timelines were heavily in flux. And as far as I am concerned, what happened in discovery stays in discovery, especially their mindless time travel stuff.
I sweat Star Trek pulled their concepts of time travel out of their asses. I'm inclined to believe in the concept of the Flux Capacitor before I believe you can time travel simply because you sling shotted around the sun.
Supposedly it distorts of inverts the subspace bubble around the warpdrive, and lets it bypass a buildup of Hawking radiation whilst passing backwards through a lightcone - to, ah, paraphrase from recent novels, @Studa Baker .
Lol there are real life theories about extremely warped spacetime making time travel possible. Now of course this stuff generally requires something infinitely so it's impossible but slingshotting around the sun is at least sorta grounded?
smh this just goes to say the creators of enterprise did no do good research when doing this show...they should have watched all episodes of previous shows...and go above and beyond read all books etc.....
Your line of reasoning about Future Man is severely flawed.
Why would Future Man place himself at risk by being physically present with the Suliban when he could manipulate them remotely from the comfort of his own century in perfect anonymity?
Where the hell is Q with all this going on? Ugh. Q your not doing your job lol
What is wrong with time travel in star trek is no real rules are cost to it are set up , There needs to be a high cost something that stops it from becoming why not just use time travel witch is easy and care free with no cost ever.
More reason why STD is the dumbest Trek ever....
Fucking ad breaks. My time travel tech isn’t good enough to skip them completely.
One day we will have the tech..
Time travel is stupid. You could literally fix anything. Wolf 359? Send back in time a flotilla of Borg fighting ships from 100 years forward of then. Send someone back to tell the Odyssey NOT to got through the worm hole. The list goes on. If you can fix anything nothing has any merit or meaning.
Time travel is supposed to be impossible but if you are going to do it, make it so hard no one does it. The only real concession to time travel should be being able to look back in time clearly, not actually go back in time. Leave actual time travel to hyper-advanced species and civilizations, like the Q.
If you "fix" things like that, then they didn't happen, and you've not only split yourself off into a new timeline, the */- of any particular event are lost to you in the new timeline.
While I'm loathe to say this, look at the Kelvinverse...it split off from the Prime one and while it has similarities, it's developed in a new direction.
firest
I'll just go with it is all continuity errors and bad writing