Crash as Road Atlanta
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2016
- Road Atlanta shows why it is a track deserving of huge respect when driving. A slight loss of traction in the esses (cause unknown) results in unfortunate meeting with the tire wall. Everything was just fine until it wasn't. First crash with my Lotus in 14 years of track driving.
without the distraction of the steering wheel and the hands, this vid shows how subtle things get magnified so quickly, at speed. touchy touchy
Id say a good 90% of crashes are because of overspend especially on non race chassis with limited downforce
@X Æ A-Xii lol ok so you changed your name to elon musks son? Cause hes too young to type much lol
While I can't say with certainty, I'm pretty confident in this assessment:
(a) you were wide of the apex, and traction goes down sharply (and the car becomes more prone to oversteer) as you get off the racing line. Just half a car width makes a significant difference!
(b) you can hear on the video that you've backed out of the throttle shortly before the car destabilizes. Particularly on a downhill, that will put a lot of weight on the front end and make the car prone to oversteer. If you don't also take out steering input as you transfer weight forward and you're at the limit of adhesion, you'll get rotation.
I think you are basically right. On that particular lap I was a little wider than my normal line. But I think I was still well within the racing line as shown by the tire marks on the pavement. I do not recall lifting throttle before the initial loss of traction but it is possible. The initial slip in rear was very slight, happens often in my tail heavy Lotus in sweeper turns. Usually a slight breath on the throttle will catch it, but not this time. It just kept sliding. My point is not that I didn't contribute to the loss of control but rather that a loss of control can happen very quickly and as the result of minor changes in track condition, car placement, and use of the controls. Just a reminder not to forget that what we do out there is dangerous. Be safe!
He looked at the other car
To much speed into the turn and distracted by the other car, then lift off oversteer. My guess. But then again I've never been on a track day so what do I know?
Nice vid though.:-)
I honestly think your rear toe link driver side let go ..
Unless you upgraded to hiem joints it’s a known fail point .. and looking at the dash is a pre USA car , and even more prone to it .. either way glad you are ok
its lift off oversteer, never lift through a corner that has that much elevation change and speed.
Made that mistake in the rain once turn 12 at road Atlanta. I still have back pain 😢
That car overtaking at 1:36 sounds fucking amazing
Looked like a Praga R1 to me.
@@BobJoe4002 bro come on not every 1:2 scale lmp lookalike is a Praga 💀💀
@@BobJoe4002 It's a LMP3.
@@318ci they’re all Pragas, always have been
That really sucks Eric, reminds us that this sort of shit can happen fast at the track.
Glad you’re alright.
Thanks for sharing. Great video. Mid engines inspire such confidence then they snatch it away suddenly. Hope you’re back at it.
Oh no! You can’t lift throttle right there. Missed the apex wide off line and in the marbles too! That’s a yard sale waiting to happen.
I like how we sat through 2min of the video when only the last 5sec is the crash
engine is in the rear thus generally the more gas you give it the more traction you get, you lifted off and it destabilized
And it's exaggerated when going downhill.
The marbles got you when you were wide of the apex. There is a significant loss of traction out there - I know from first-hand experience of missing that same apex
Disagree with some here, in that nothing that happened in turn 1 had anything to do with the crash. By turn 4 you were tight to the inside and on line. But, you missed the apex to the entrance (greasy tires, distracted by the prototype in front of you, tired, whatever). I generally hate early apexes but this is one where you have to get in early and tight on that right-hand entrance to the esses because you DRIFT out wide when coming over the hill. The rear is already light at this point and engine noise sounded like a slight lift, plus steering input (probably saw that you were running out of tarmac), and voila--- spin city. I know this because I did the exact same thing years ago, but managed to counter-steer back down to the bottom of the hill (unscathed, but with a pant-load).
Thank you for sharing this video for others to learn from. And your point is well taken: loss of control can happen in a heartbeat, even for veteran drivers like yourself.
Glad you were OK.
Ouch! Was at the Petit Le Mans there a couple of weeks ago and won 2 hot laps in a Skip Barber School Gazoo Toyota Supra piloted by the day’s Pace car driver. What a cool outfit that is. Best birthday present (73) ever. I don’t think I would ever get those laps right with such a variety of undulations and corners in my Cayman S. Thanks for posting…I hope your beautiful car is up and running by now and you’ll have another go. D🇬🇧
Damn MR setups must be a real hassle to drive. We all make mistakes and that’s okay! Hope you’re back to racing :)
Great video . We're all so sorry that happened.
At 1:36 I wasn't expecting that noise to be coming from a car like that! I was thinking what muscle car is managing to keep up with this Lotus through the bends?
because you are a teenager
Its either a LMP2 or LMP3 car so still using a 4-5L NA V-8, so it'll definitely sound like a muscle car. Only the new LMP1/Hypercars use a turbo hybrid V-6.
This was a really great lap. Thank you for sharing. Are you in the same gear at the Esses on both laps? It's hard for me to know but seems like early in the downhill as you're moving right and accelerating, things are starting to escalate. Thanks again and well done :)
You say you don’t know the reason for the crash, but according to the video and especially the sound, it looks like a classic lift off oversteer crash.
Whoa …tough break 😩 That was a nice pass earlier on that Cayman though.!!! 👍🏽
Hey thanks for sharing. i think i got exactly same crash just like you. Downhill just make car a lot unstable and over steer. hopefully the drivers' confidence wont get crash as well.
Lift oversteer. Not much else happening other than not commiting down the hill. Hope you and the car are alright mate. @eric have you tried a step looser rear swaybar if the car like to slide put on faster sweepers.
Not quite as simple as lift off oversteer, the track drops away there which unweights the car which the driver can feel, in response he lifts off slightly which induces oversteer and that's it. If there was no lift off the car would probably have continued on it's way. As a foreigner I love that circuit from a distance, fast and multi challenging.
Damn. That's a strange looking spin.
I agree. The car does this little twitch to the left, which is usually caused by suddenly regaining grip while countersteering, followed by suddenly spearing off to the left, but this appears to twitch to the left before starting to spin in the opposite direction. It definitely seems like there may have been fluids on the track.
because we don't see the steering
That sucks. Sorry that happened. Do you think the slight throttle lift upset the car? Makes for a tough day. Hope you get back out there soon.
Thanks for the comment. My best recollection is that the loss of traction started before the throttle lift. Many times in driving the Lotus with its rear weight bias I would start a slight slide of the rear in a corner by too much throttle or tightening the steering a little too much. It would usually correct with a slight breathe on the throttle or if it continued to slide, a quick counter steer. What I remember here is the back end started to slide just a little, I reduced throttle in a effort to stop it, and when that didn't work, I tried to catch it with steering, which also did not work. My opinion is that I got out a little too far into the marbles and was going a little too fast and when it started to slide it got into more slippery areas and with the rear weight bias and speed it just had too much momentum for me to catch it. A combination of driver's error and track conditions. But isn't that pretty much always the case?
What spring rates on the car? Seems very stiff and unforgiving
You can tell that this car was well cared for. The finish is glossy and has depth. This wasn't just a track car. It was/is a prize.🍻
That was a weird accident. Car kinda twitched coming off the throttle and with elevation change sort of got you there. Very unfortunate my friend, I wish her a speedy repair
What you’re looking for is 3 seconds from the end of video…..
Did a rear toe link let go ? Very common in the 111 chassis cars
It looks like this starts all the way back at turn 1, with the inside pass. You were off line coming into 2, apexed early on 3, which took you wide coming out of 3, which left you wide in the esses. It looks like you realized you were carrying too much speed for the wrong line (subconsciously or not), and when you pulled out of the throttle the spin happened. Anyway, good for you for posting this- it helps other drivers learn.
You may never respond as this video is 5 years old but you say this is your first crash in your 14 years of tracking your lotus, as someone who doesn’t do any track driving as in california its not easy to just go track a car, how do you avoid crashing for that long? Track experience? Not pushing the limits? I moved to texas and there are plenty more tracks here but Im worried about crashing since I have 0 track experience, I have driven my car past 100+ mph and driven down plenty of back roads at speeds my parents would scoff at but still in the back of my head Im too concerned about crashing, maybe a dumb fear but I don’t have loads of money so a crash would hurt my wallet :-( I feel like im more conservative on a real road where if they let me lose on a track I feel I would be mor likely to push the limits since there is no fear of cops and obviously no other people on the road (as in oncoming traffic).
Looks like weight transfer shifting forward due to coming off the gas while the track drops and maybe compounded by being slightly offline (On a track day marbles shouldn't be too bad a problem I guess) Like you say, you have the experience, so its an unfortunate one.
What a bizarre crash... weird.
Geez I can't tell what caused it (the loss of rear traction), unless the car is really twitchy or the traction on that part of the track was bad maybe. Your line didn't look that bad, I figure you ought to have been able to just point the car and let off the gas a bit. Weird.
Did you ever figure out what caused the loss of traction?
Lift off oversteering and an over correction causing an even bigger loss of control.
That was a nice ceramic job on the paint .. too bad it got ruined by the shunt
Bummer. Car looked like it was out of position from turn 1 due to the pass.
Why is everyone passing on the right? I thought you can only pass on the left during track days.
My impression was, left rear tire went down. That didn't look like loss of traction at all. It was your left rear that went into the barrier so you might not be able to tell.
What kind of car is that baby blue car?
Was a nice lotus … definitely not his track car .. got excited when he saw that awesome proto type fly by :(
How muh did the repair cost?
looks like water from an overheat you got one tire in or oil i didn’t see you go off track to pick up any debris
It sounds like you lifted going downhill right before you spun... Have you thought about lift-oversteer?
I don't recall lifting before the back end started to step out. I think I did after the spin started which of course just made it worse. I have two of these early model Lotus Elises and have driven them on track since 2002. They are very susceptible to lift throttle oversteer. In fact, when I am driving well I use it to bend the nose down to the apex in long sweeper turns. I still am at a loss to understand what happened in this incident. Probably some combination of track conditions and driver error. Maybe I did lift slightly just at the point of max traction and that started the slide and then the tire marbles in the area prevented me from catching the spin. That's the thing about track driving -- sh*t happens. Haha! Thanks so much for your comment.
It clearly sounds to me you backed off the throttle just before the car became twitchy. Going downhill and turning at the same time made the car want to turn more aggressively which caught you out and got you to overcorrect with the steering which unsettles the car even further.
Going downhill makes the front of the car have more grip because of more load on the fronts (relatively) than the rears. Being off the throttle increases the load transfer even more and makes the rear light. Lotus being mid engined means the changes happen really quickly in such situations.
Good thing you were ok though. Shame about the car.
I wonder if he started staring at the car in front rather than looking a for his Apex and exit points. Once the car passed him his lines went south and you can almost see how he tried to match that cars speed but couldn't quite equal that cars grip to get through the turn which may have made him do a quick jab on the brakes and too much steering angle because his brain started yelling turn turn turn. Anyway hope the car didn't get damaged to bad and I wish you the best of the luck next time your out there!
Forza 3 got this place spot on!!😊❤️👍
Man that’s rough. Might have been better to keep on the throttle and just eat the next curb? Going wide as you’re entering the esses is just a recipe for disaster.
I had a similar issue coming out of the esses going into turn 5 a couple of years ago. Came out of the esses wide, going into turn 5 at a bad, shallow angle. I was able to straighten up the steering wheel to even out the left/right load on the tires and back off the throttle early enough to miss the inside curbing. My run to turn 6 was ruined, of course, but no harm to the car.
What's the blue car at 0:51?
Pretty sure is a Radical
Look as if he blew a rear tire.
"cause of crash unknown", while way off the apex and suddenly lifting mid corner.
it was probably the wake left by the racecar in front of you which destabilized your car. your car is light and the line you took would have been driving straight through a lot of air turbulence created by the car on front. something was just off enough to send you out of control
It looks like you tried to correct a slight loss in traction by letting off the throttle and overcorrected inducing an off throttle oversteer. At least you didn't hit the concrete barrier like that S2000 did
It's worrying that you think "cause unknown" as it's pretty clear that not only do you enter incorrectly worse you lift and while not super abruptly doing that put all the weight on the front, giving it grip and as you were turned to the right a bit the front end gripped and bingo. you go right. Very obvious after that.
Snap oversteer strikes again!
Whoaaa what happened...tire blow???
where are you lookin mate...
2 minute video for a 2 second crash
Atleast it was against a tire wall, not a concrete wall
The track goes off camber there. You were wide and then wider, goodbye...
Not as bad as it could have been... Any damage to the car
can i use this vid in a completion
yes
There’s allot of gradual factors here, slightly pointing away from the racing line and correcting it shifted the load from left to right too quickly for the grip of the tires? That’s what I can see from this video
And there’s a lul in his throttle so he lifted off
I’ve done this mistake in forza
Turning going down hill with foot of the gas , what could possibly go wrong.
100% rear toe link failure. Car was cruising, absolutely no way it would let go grip wise. I've pushed mine to the edge and over - it's very predictable.
You just lift a bit, that’s it
Trailing throttle oversteer.
I blame the 44 tesla
You cannot late apex into the esses...I have seen it many times before. Early apex here...sorry it happened but lesson learned I am sure. All the best.
Drives like my Grandmother an crash!
Damn, hope ur wallet is alright
Honestly, it looks like there was a mechanical failure of some sort. Maybe the left rear end link? The car looked fine, and you weren't really too far off line to where it would have mattered, and you didn't get off the throttle until the car was already gone. But right before it did fully let go, there was an unaccounted for bobble which looked like the rear was suddenly letting go. I didn't see a visual cue or hear anything you did wrong. It just bobbled and then looped. Did you ever figure out if anything mechanical happened?
You owe me 2 minutes. Was more of a bump.
Practice on gran Turismo it cost less!
ruclips.net/video/JwTcrk3rZe0/видео.html
Crashed at the exact same point - off camber downhill bit you both it looks like.
Andrew Funston that was me. I had changed my car’s setup significantly before this track event and hooked hard into that right hand turn expecting to still have enough grip to recover. At that point in the track you are downhill, off camber and very light on the tail. Rear aero would make it a lot more stable but I’m afraid the only solution at that point would be throttle on and even so that may not be enough. I see in your video that you lift as soon as you clear the apex (a good bit before the car becomes unsettled) but then without the weight on the rear there was too little traction to handle the unsettling that came next. All it takes is a few things working against you for something like this to happen and you had a lot going against you. Hope it didn’t deter you from tracking!
Thats crazy its like someone just kicked the rear end out from behind you.
straight panic lol, thoughts racing through your mind cloud what you should be doing this is why drilling life-like simulation matters a lot so it can erase away irrelevant cloud blinding thoughts that make you do what not to do
Mind cloud like I don't want to crash, my car cost so much, I don't want to get injured, etc. etc. etc. etc. then you end up in the wall
On my R6 when it gets wobbly under power some people might freak out but I just keep the throttle full on going straight
Almost looked like a toe link gave up. Very strange, hope the cars back in one piece now.
Listen to the engine sound, he lift off just before the rear steps out. So more likely a lift off oversteer than a mechanical issue
I think you tried to keep pace with the prototype and found yourself going through the esses much faster than you normally do. Not taking the proper line also helped, but I think the big culprit was running in the same group as much faster cars. You didn’t have any difficulty when you were driving slower. It offends me how many people crash at certain “HPDE” events. You should never spin, much less crash.
I've never raced a car in my life and I know why you wrecked. Stick to iRacing maybe.
Have a great day, God bless, Jesus Christ loves you all, John 3:16 God so loved the world that He gave His One and Only Son to whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life
That was a weird accident. Car kinda twitched coming off the throttle and with elevation change sort of got you there. Very unfortunate my friend, I wish her a speedy repair