I’m shocked that this video is controversial. What I Think About So-Called “Balanced Dog Training”
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- Опубликовано: 24 июл 2024
- What I Think About So-Called “Balanced” Dog Training. (Contains paid promotion) ⭐️ Use DISCOUNT CODE: ZAK at PupBox.com/zak to get 50% OFF your first PupBox in a multi-month plan! ⭐️
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Chapters:
00:00 Intro
00:24 PupBox
01:33 Balanced Dog Training
04:33 Beware Intuition
05:28 Crate Training
10:13 Diggs
10:27 Go to your Mark
14:38 Play Break
14:59 Heading Outdoors
15:32 Stay when Opening the Crate
16:02 Training in Public
22:18 Outro 
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It seems to me that one of the fundamental mis-steps in communication between different types of dog training is the conflation of the 𝘦𝘧𝘧𝘦𝘤𝘵𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘯𝘦𝘴𝘴 of a particular technique with the 𝘦𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘴 of that technique, and that conflation carries with it a personal emotional investment that can make critiques feel like either personal or systemic attacks. All four of the operant conditioning quadrants are effective, and this is simply an objective fact. That fact, however, doesn't address whether or not there is an ethical problem with some of them. "Balanced" training utilizes all four quadrants, while "positive" training only uses two (yes, the focus is on positive reinforcement, refusing access to a rewarding stimulus until the correct behavior is presented is negative punishment). Even if the two methodologies had identical rates of effective performance (they don't, methods that emphasize positive reinforcement as the primary tool showed both higher levels of learning speed and retention), the question still remains: If you can train a dog just as effectively 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘵 using aversives, is it morally a problem to do so? My personal answer to that is 'Yes', I don't think that it's ok to cause stress or discomfort to a dog without a compelling reason to do so. The dog training world has far, far too much ego attached directly to training method (as evidenced by the comment section of any dog training video that dares to critique a different method), and we should be spending more time looking at the data instead of doing things "because I've always done it this way, and it works fine."
Some of the science I mentioned:
Arhant C, Bubna-Littitz H, Bartels A, Futschik A, Troxler J. Behaviour of smaller and larger dogs: Effects of training methods, inconsistency of owner behaviour and level of engagement in activities with the dog. Appl Anim Behav Sci. 2010;123(3-4):131-142.
Hiby EF, Rooney NJ, Bradshaw JWS. Dog training methods: their use, effectiveness and interaction with behaviour and welfare. Anim Welf. 2004;13(1):63-69.
Rooney NJ, Cowan S. Training methods and owner-dog interactions: Links with dog behaviour and learning ability. Appl Anim Behav Sci. 2011;132(3-4):169-177.
Thoughtful words! Well stated.
No one could've said it better, this comment needs more likes.
"I don't think that it's ok to cause stress or discomfort to a dog without a compelling reason to do so."
The most important part of this well written response.
I agree with every point you make here when applied to a puppy but from my observations of Balanced trainers and some aversive methods they employ is usually an adult dog with aggressive and reactive behavior.
I've attempted to use treats and happy vocal stimuli in those situations and what I learned from that experience is either the dog is not interested in the treats because they are laser focused on the object OR they think I am rewarding them for their potentially dangerous behavior, which is inadvertently training them to be aggressive.
So the question begs... what would you as a purely positive trainer do in that situation?
(First, Thank you Zak George for your Videos, they where a tremendous help to me.)
I mostly agree. But for my taste it is a little too theoretical. Yes in a perfect world there would be everything with „positive“ training. But i belive that there is right now a gap between this theoretical possibility to do it all positive and the praktikal appliance. I love how Mr. Gorge shows what is possible and gives so much faith in this method and encourages me to try and try to get it done positive. But i also see that there is a lot of skill involved to „read“ your dog and to know how to work on things. Not everyone is that skilled or can manage to get that skilled in time (before things go south). And you can worsen stuff with a positive approache done wrong. E.g. letting self reinforcment happen for unwanted behaivoirs by accident. That does not mean that with balanced, adversive or whatever you will try this wont happen, but also „positve“ can create problems (done wrong). And having for some situations a fallback with a balanced metheod can be more ethical correct, in my opinion, than having stress with and for the dog for months or more. And this is what is happening in cases. And than saying someone who uses any kind of correction is ethicaly misbehaving ist to crass to me. I dont think that dogs can‘t have a happy live with people who arn‘t the perfect dog trainers. And i don‘t belive that trainer who give people who are struggeling a balanced way out arn‘t ethicaly wrong either. Please don‘t missunderstand me, i absoluty advocate for the mildest possible approach. And i truly belive you should try your best to get done as much as possible as positive as possible. But you can‘t just ignore the skill oft he people. And i think this channel is a hughe step in enabaling people to do more the positve way. And i also belive that the more fundament you have with your dog in postive training the less „adversive“ will be „needed“ even by whose struggle in some areas with positive approaches.
I think giving people the feeling what they do is ethically wrong, and/or that they are not good enough is fanning the flames between „balanced“ and „positive“.
@@rufflifecanineservices1585 That's the kind of situation where I think this conversation tends to live. Obviously every dog is different, and you have to train the dog in front of you, but generally speaking, at least in my case (I don't generally refer to myself as a 'positive' trainer, I usually use LIMA) I would back up the training and control the setting more until I hit a point where the dog 𝘪𝘴 interested, then work up from there. In my experience, the most common situation in which positive training "fails" is simply that the trainer isn't really willing to keep backing up until they find the spot where the dog is "at".
Zak, you were my inspiration for training our Goldendoodle (Standard size 65 lbs so far) and I have to say he is at 10 months very well trained thanks to your videos. He was completely potty trained by 13 weeks with a total of 3 accidents since. He sits, he stays, he leaves it, he shakes, he hugs, he fetches, he sits for meals and does not go near his food until I say okay….now barking at people out our windows and in the backyard….lets just say we are working on it! :)
This progression is amazing! Excellent work. Thank you so much for creating a wonderful guide to bond with our best friends! I also appreciate the explanation of balanced training and the fact that everyone is different with their training methods.
This kind of explanation is really very helpful. I have both your books, but that's the way to teach us how to form the training sessions on every occasion and not just rely on what we have seen. Thank you very much. Keep up the good work.
Only thing that helped my 120lb Cane Corso who became lease reactive toward dogs and people at the age of 4 only used positive only training on all my dogs but I ended up getting a herm sprenger prong and 180 saved my dog and only had to use it for a week and boom back to his old self ! Positive methods for 99% of training but when it comes to real aggression good luck
Totally agree I have three dogs two I only use positive only training , the third I use balanced training as she is a APBT and could defiantly do damage if not controlled appropriately she is actually very sweet and obedient BUT I am very aware of what she is and I am always in control of her ❤
You have come so far with little Biscuits!!!! Incredible job with her and I loveee your mindset too, your videos are really informative and useful, I have been watching you for years. 🥰🥰🥰💗💗💗💗
As a vet I have to say I absolutely love the way you train and try to help pet owners understand why positive reinforcement is preferred. It’s not just about getting the behaviour you want, it’s about helping the dog really understand it and building a bond. I’ve referred several clients with their first puppies to watch your videos!
I'm so glad to hear that a vet is promoting positive conditioning. Are you a vet in the U.S.? If so, could you help me understand why vets here have rejected non-surgical options for neutering?
@@anonanonymous1970 I am not in the US. What type of non surgical neutering are you asking about?
@@kmclare2 Well, in the UK and other countries, vets administer shots that curb testosterone and sterilize without surgery. Some only last 6 months so that owners can observe the effects before committing to neutering. In the U.S., we are required to neuter by surgery - vets here have refused to use these other options (presumably because they cost less).
I'm starting to suspect that the removal of key hormones (on top of the trauma of spay/neuter surgery) underpins a lot of dog behavioral issues. Understandably!
@@anonanonymous1970 part of the problem is the part about owners needing to pay close attention to signs if/when it wears off. Unfortunately many owners don't, and the concern with overpopulation mostly has to do with people not paying close enough attention to their dogs in the first place (hence accidental breedings).
Also, if the concern is that not enough testosterone leads to health issues, then how is it any different if testosterone is chemically or surgically removed?
Honestly, if the dog has behavioural issues related to testosterone (marking or territorial aggression), neutering surgically is best. I see A LOT of dogs that are neutered and many that aren't. Those with behavioural issues have more to do with not enough training, and almost nothing to do with the presence of testosterone, or lack thereof.
New puppy owner here so I’ve watched tons of videos and read tons of articles. I keep coming back to your way. I don’t want to hurt my dog to fix a behavior.
I do need professional help to progress but I know what I’m looking for and it’s definitely positive reinforcement. Thank you Zac
Zak, I love how you actively work to avoid arguments about dog training methods, refusing to be drawn in to those types of conversations just to create controversy. Instead, you explain why your methods work for you and for the dogs. It's a pleasure to listen to you!
The only reason this guy has views is because he is starting a war between the lifelyhood of dogtrainers and himself as a RUclips ENTERTAINER.. your just picking a side thats comfortable to you so you have at least one opinion...
@@Aswodel Wow...you heard something different than I did in the video so I guess you've picked something that is comfortable for *your* opinion. Whatever. I don't argue with people who exist in an alternate reality.
The unfortunate part of his video is that he continually insults balanced trainers by using “example of balance trading” that are completely and utterly ridiculous. No trainer would use an ecollar to correct a frightened dog. No trainer would use an ecollar to teach a place command. For that matter, ecollars don’t TEACH. He makes balanced trainers out to be sadistic people. On the contrary. They love dogs even more than PPTs. Please check out Ivan Balabanov. He’s a balanced trainer. Two time World Champion and 14 time National Champion. You can see and feel his love for his dogs.
@@k9trainergsd I agree 100% ! Even with a dog that isn't nervous/scared/skittish, I wouldn't use an E.Collar to try to "teach" anything.. Only to stop/correct a behavior if I can't get through to the dog with a regular lead or prong.. I've had dog's that wouldn't react the slightest to a prong.. they'd just pull harder.
@@mikefrost5481 To only use an ecollar to stop unwanted behaviours is a huge waste of a great tool. I very seldom use it to correct. I’m talking 1-2% of its use. I’m hoping people read this and do a lot of research on the use of ecollars.
I found you 12 years ago. My aussie mix was just 10 weeks old. I changed my training method using exactly what you encouraged. My girl is now 12 years old. I can't even count how many times I have/had people compliment me and Gypsy on her behaviour and almost human like character. We have such a beautiful relationship. You made me see Gypsy as a companion. Gypsy is the best dog I have ever had and I know it's because of you. Thank you!
That's great to hear! I am determined to make our new Brittany the best dog I have ever had, and using these techniques has been incredibly effective. Even though she is only 8 weeks old and it may have been too soon to start, by the second day in her new home, she was already sitting and lying down. She is definitely a smart pup, but I attribute her progress to these loving techniques because they truly work!
Zak I’d like to thank you for your videos and what they’ve done for me and my puppy! I got a Boxer/Pit mix and even though this is truly my first time taking care of a puppy without anyones help, your videos have helped when it comes to sitting, speaking, potty training and walking! I thank you very much for all the videos you’ve put out and wish you the best!
As a trainer myself I try to understand the techniques of multiple trainers. You are such a nice guy and always take the high road, which I respect. I said yesterday on Beckman's channel that if more people employed positive reinforcement training as a puppy less people would have to take their 3 year old out of control dogs to people like Joel (who I like and respect as well)
Yes, I have very similar thoughts as you
I love Joel, and Tom Davis. They are the people to go to when you have a dog with serious issues. Zak is the guy you go to when you are training a new puppy or some new behaviors. I also really like Stonie Dennis for positive reinforcement training. He had some good videos on puppy adventure training.
@@MrsFitzus I watch every trainer I come across to sharpen my skills and learn other's perspectives. Chris Perondi is amazing as well. I'll check out your suggestion...thanks!
@@MrsFitzus This idea that positive reinforcement doesn't work for dogs with serious issues is an odd one. Serious issues like aggression, reactivity, separation anxiety, etc are all caused by emotional problems, and as Zach explained in this video, aversive techniques have risks in making the underlying cause worse. Often we see learned helplessness where dogs are punished for expressing their fear or stress, sure the dog might appear better behaved, but their mental wellbeing has not improved. Positive reinforcement is not just for obedience training.
@@tonyveguilla8358 Do you happen to know if there's any way to tame down a prey drive? My dogs are jack Russell/chihuahua Cross and it's one area I am at a bit of a loss (I just keep them on their leash when there's rabbits around since they killed one last year) - they don't have this behaviour any other time and usually have great impulse control and recall. "Leave it" works for absolutely everything else, except a rabbit.
I'm not one for giving up but I'm a bit stuck with how to tackle it. Any advice or recommended reading material/videos would be greatly appreciated. (They're 3-4kg and have more of a chihuahua build, even if I was happy for them to hunt rabbits, they'll wind up getting badly injured).
Great video, it’s incredibly useful to have the examples of how you tackle real life situations vs instinctive (lets face it for most people we default to ‘no’ before our brain has assessed the situation fully) reactions. Just having the conversation as you train each thing is SO helpful, because when you are in the moment and getting frustrated it’s sometimes difficult to see a better way even when you know there is one.
Love this! Every time I've been frustrated or worried and tempted to go the correction route, I force myself to think of how I have set up the dog to fail. For example, my Great Pyrenees knows a recall cue, but he stopped responding from a distance. I thought about one of those vibration collars to nudge him, but then decided to go back several steps in training and reinforce more heavily from a shorter distance with less distractions. Now he's back to recalling from across a football field. Three rescue dogs in, all with their own reactivities, and I have yet to need anything but positive reinforcement. I go at their pace not mine, just like I do for my anxious human clients. It's on us to be creative and compassionate. No mammal learns better when they're worried that something bad will happen. It's like smacking your kid when they get a math problem wrong. They'll learn not to say the wrong thing, but they won't learn how to solve the problem.
Perhaps.
But getting a maths problem wrong doesn't usually mean the child will run into the road and die.
Or that the child will run over to another innocent child and maul it to death.
But then, to counter my own argument, if you're a responsible owner you would know if your dog has aggression and you wouldn't let it off leash.
But that doesn't change the running-into-the-road issue. 🤔
Also forgot to say that I love Great Pyrenees. My dad has one crossed with Maremma. Beautiful dogs!
@inkwhiskers9948 lots of balanced trainers use that as an excuse for using e collars or prongs but it's really just lazy. As OP said, you have to go at the dog's pace and not hurry the training. You start with a long leash and when the dog has reliable recall with the long leash you go off leash in a fenced area, and only after that if the dog has a perfect recall 100% of the time that's when you can truly go off leash in parks and whatnot. If the dog struggles with the recall off leash you go back a few steps. There's no need for e-collars. There are a bunch of dogs that are trained using the positive reinforcement method that have perfect recall. If they can do it, so can you.
Hi Zak, I just discovered your videos and even though I've raised and trained 4 dogs in my life, I am so glad to learn new, better ways of doing things. Your positive, very empathic and attuned approach to teaching and training dogs really resonates with me and makes so much sense. Thank you for getting your wonderful philosophy out there!
I'm so happy I came across your channel. We need MORE dog trainers online like you so we can drown out all the awful "trainers". I've seen so-called dog trainers hit dogs with rolled-up towels (looking at you, Jeff Gellman). Yesterday, I saw a "trainer" tell people to hit their dog with their open hand if that's what it takes. And people listen! And look up to these people. I truly believe a bunch of narcissists took to the internet because they saw an opportunity to feed their egos. There are so many dogs out there getting abused because these people are manipulative and convincing. It breaks my heart that social media lifts these people up and gives them a platform.
Hey! Lucy (gsd rescue) and I have been following along and enjoying your journey with Biscuits. Thank you for your continued patience…. With dogs AND people 😊. I admit…. There are times when Lucy tries mine. However, I know that positive training and love ALWAYS wins out in the long run. ( Btw- I am a 3rd grade teacher…. Same is true for kids… they’ll try you. But love, compassion, and positive reinforcement ALWAYS works in the long run…. Treats work too 😋).
I started watching your videos when I was thinking of adopting a dog. On my bucket list: Train a dog. It's still on the bucket list. Two things happened. I found that my local rescue center has a lot of cats for adoption and extremely few dogs. And, around that time I discovered that you can train cats. Mind blown. Different than dogs, but many overlapping techniques and philosophies.
I continue watching Zak George videos because they're interesting (taking a completely untrained dog, showing both successes and failures--very engaging) and even useful to training my adopted cat.
My kitty doesn't really get "no." And some of the things I've used "no" with because I haven't figured out ways to turn them into a successful "yes" have become "yes" in his mind because he gets a reaction out of me. Of course, I just don't have it in me to inflict pain with my "no," so my "no" isn't really a clear "no" I suppose.
Though I didn't train him overtly, most recently he seems to have understood that tapping me on the face gets him what he wants much quicker than biting (play biting, of course, but still painful for me). I didn't directly teach him that. He seems to initiate his own training sometimes! But the directly teaching him tricks (as well as a few useful things like "wait" and "look at me") is so fun, and he often requests training (sometimes by doing a trick without my prompting at all) and purrs his way through it.
Thank you for your teaching--the how-to's and the philosophy behind them! They work with my cat too!
Zak, I have been using your tips and training methods, and they have been wonderful! The word "yes!" makes my dog so happy, and he realizes when he is doing something good without the need of a clicker. I think you are an amazing trainer, and the proof is in what you have accomplished. I am a teacher, and we teacher have been told to set our students up for success by making the rules very clear on the very first day of school. If they know what is expected of them, they can do well. That's why I really respect you as a trainer. YOU ARE DOING A GREAT JOB, ZAK! Look at the thousands of people who are following you. Think about this... If you took an exam (in school) that had a thousand or more questions on it and you only miss five or ten questions, you still would have an A+ on that exam! Stay true to your methods. You are changing the lives of thousands of dogs! Thank you for all you do!
I have to admit , that watching you train and deal with a biting puppy helped me. I have had a few dogs over the years and training has changed so much. I have a 10 week old Mountain Labradoodle and we are in the height of biting and teething. I was going about it all wrong and was on the road to ruining my relationship with this pup. Within a day of doing more positive instead of corrective, he’s happier, I’m happier and we are getting to know each other. He’s calmer, I’m calmer and it’s made for an easier transition.
I love that you opened up this conversation, but I especially love how respectfully, thoughtfully, logically, and openly you've done so. You've been careful to not attack anyone and avoid hurt feelings (which is one of the first places where conversation on this topic can break down - people feeling they're being attacked for their choices and understanding in dog training, which stops them from hearing what is being said). I also adore that you're not going by anecdote, but by what our current best scientific understanding says (it's so easy for us as humans to completely reject current scientific, procedural conclusions for anecdote), and warning that intuition isn't always right, or doesn't always manage to correctly identify what's going on (eg, the "alpha" approach - feels intuitive maybe to some people: the idea that our world works by people (and by extension our dogs or other pets, or maybe our children) just wanting to "be in charge" or "test us," so we have to establish authority, when the reality is that we need to establish trust and boundaries - misbehaving isn't a dog trying to "be in charge," it's just the dog doing something that seems stimulating or rewarding, and not knowing our reasoning for wanting it to do something else). So. Good. I love objective, thoughtful, logical approaches to understanding our world, and (beyond your helpful insights, demonstrations, advice, and knowledge) that's what ultimately keeps me coming back to your channel.
Thank you for spreading your knowledge and training methods. It is so important in this world full of quick fixes and ignoring of the animals' languages.
Zak!! I can’t thank you enough. Because of you I have a fairly well trained dog. Redirection. Positive reinforcement. Clicker training. Sit spin shake. Touch. I seriously can’t thank you enough. Your book helped me so much to raise a puppy and your videos are so good it’s almost like having you with me each step of the way. I’m so thankful for your ways of teaching. The way you explain things make so much sense it bewilders me that some people aren’t following your dog training revolution. If I ever get the chance to meet you, a big hand shake and a very grateful smile will be given to you. Thank you again for everything. I’m happy and proud to tell people about you when they ask what have I done yo get my puppy to spin. Again. Thank you thank you. You are truly a special person.
Awwwe.... Biscuit is doing so good! What a sweetie pup.
I used a method very similar to Zak's for teaching a past friend's dog Place. He loved it! It was like a game to him; and I was pleasantly amazed at how fast he learned! I did use a leash; but only to guide and keep him from running off. I did not use the leash for correction. Then, later I had the honor of fostering a dog; and I used the same method with her. She picked up on it just as quickly.
Not sure if you’ve ever tried this or your thoughts on this, but one of the easiest ways to teach a dog not to run out of the crate is by using the crate door as your tool!! Gently and slowly open the door, dog decides to try and run, gently and slowly close the door. Repeat until dog offers a sit or down on their own and then looks to you for guidance. Once they are getting the idea, you can add a “wait” command or “stay” if you desire. THEN give them an “ok” command to come out only when they have offered the sit or down on their own and give you eye contact as if asking “am I ok to come out now?” Works wonders and is virtually harmless!
He’s done that before! If you look back a bit to the Kona series he used that technique witht her :>
Lol Zak is trying to politely call out his peers and just unintentionally smacked down the crazy flat earth community. Might want to proactively turn off your email for the next few months.
Once again an excellent video with Biscuts. We have a 10 week old miniature poodle Obi and he watched the video with me. We are using your training methods for our new pup and it works. It also teaches us patience. Thanks
Now I have to admit that I am far from being a dog trainer. Hell, my dogs train me more than I train them. But when I rescued my Border Collie Blanche, I was hell bent on giving her only positive feedback and I tried to turn her to be sociable and trustworthy.
Now, I could not do it without „NO!” - who ever had a BC in puberty will know what I mean, but apart from a few (okay, more than a few) no’s she only experienced positive enforcement and she is within reason a good problem solver and she trusts me 100%. Even when she’s a football pitch away - a call and a whistle will bring her back. She goes into her place when asked to - call me crazy, but I usually ask my dogs to do something and they know that when I order them to do something, they overstepped their boundaries.
Aversive dog training has only one benefit: instant gratification for the trainer, but it comes with the risk of challenging the human/canine bond.
Really good video. Thank you for addressing aversive, punishment based training and the fallout that can damage our relationship with our dogs. Positive, reward based training is the way to ensure a happy dog and trusting relationship.
6:45 that's not balanced training though. it's not disputed that positive reinforcement is best for teaching dogs behaviors. Balanced training is for correcting the wrong choice a dog makes with a behavior they already know. You can teach a dog with treats to come but as soon as something more interesting catches their attention they won't care about the treat. there needs to be a consequence or you won't have reliability.
10:50 that's not how e collar training works at all. Before you ever put an e collar on a dog You first have to teach the dog the behavior and queue of going to a 'place'. Balanced training is still positive reinforcement. Once the dog fully understands the command you introduce the stimulation at the level of barely registering the feeling. The dog already knows the command, and knows how to shut off the stimulation immediately. I don't know a single trainer who just shocks a dog until they happen to touch the place, that's not realistic at all. Everything you've demonstrated in this video are the same methods used by balanced trainers. The difference is a balanced trainer then works on getting reliability.
20:17 I don't know of any balanced trainers who would correct a fearful puppy. It sort of just seems like you have a huge misconception on what balanced training actually is. Bottom line is all behaviors are taught with positive reinforcement. All behaviors must be practiced in several different environments until the dog fully understands what it is you want and you have good communication. The balanced side of things comes about when the dog actively CHOOSES not to do what you ask because they don't feel like it, Not because they are confused or scared. A tiny bit of aversion means complete freedom for balance trained dogs.
Exactly. He doesn't really get how balanced training actually is done...
absolutely agree 💯 with you. great comment
"When a dog actively CHOOSES not to do something because they don't feel like it" - Dogs, wont respond to something asked of them for many reasons. Not just because they don't feel like it. Are they tired, hungry, bored, distracted, have to toilet, have they learned that behavior in that context? Dogs are sentient beings with thought processes. Not something to "command" around. The goal is to always set the animal up for success. When humans feel the need for punishment to happen, it is usually the failure of the set up and not of the animal. One of your first mentions was about recall. If there is always a punisher for not coming back, 1) they shouldn't be in a situation if you know their recall isn't solid and 2) a recall should NEVER be punished as that is a life saving behavior. Why would an animal want to come to you when they had been punished before for not coming? Recall is a behavior that needs a ton of positive rehearsal with rewards because coming when called is so important. I train check-ins without being asked and will train recalls but want them to be used when necessary. I'm going on a tangent about recalls so I'll stop there... haha but the point being, tools shouldn't need to be used if the training before is solid. As you said, Balanced trains the behavior first before tools, then why would tools be needed if the behavior is trained?
@@JurassicWhitney so your saying a dog should ignore a recall if it's hungry? Bored? Tired? A dog actively chooses to ignore a recall(assuming they understand and have already been trained) because there is something more interesting to them. Maybe it's a scent. Maybe it's a rabbit, maybe it's another dog. You can train a recall with treats and get a dog that listens 90% of the time but that one time they decide they'd rather do something else is the time you NEED them to listen. yes, in training you always set a dog up for success, but what a balanced trainer does after successfully teaching a dog a behavior through positive reinforcement, is ensure 99.9% reliability with that command. And because of that reliability the dog has 100% freedom to go be a dog. so while a positive trainer can train a recall, they will never be able to truly trust their dog off a leash around every possible distraction. As I've mentioned before the method for training dogs in positive only and balanced is exactly the same; you teach a dog through positive reinforcement and repetition. Where balanced training differs is ensuring reliability after the hard work is done.
@@JurassicWhitney also worth noting not all dogs are the same. I'm sure someone could train their border collie a reliable recall with treats only and never have to introduce a punishment. good luck using that method with a husky! 😂 Not all training works the same for certain dogs. some dogs are soft, some dogs are hard. It's a case by case basis. But this is Also why you see so many positive only trainers telling people they should put their stubborn/reactive/aggressive dog down because they don't know how to handle them. Give that same "aggressive" dog to a balanced trainer and they'll have it fixed in a hour.
A simple, very grateful THANK YOU, Georges, Mr. and Mrs., for sharing your expertise and behind the scenes work. I am bingeing your lessons and it's been so helpful with our new Goldendoodle puppy, Max. We previously had two family dogs, a lab and golden retriever, when my young adult sons were very young, these pups were their dogs to grow up with, they acted as my assistants while working from home for many years, they were loved, spoiled, wonderful, well behaved adult dogs and are still so greatly missed. What my good old boys weren't, was very well behaved puppies, I did not use a crate, feeling it was cruel to lock them in, of course, we had destroyed shoes and clothes, chewed chair legs etc. Those boys needed the security of their own space and down time from the huge world of stuff to smell and taste and the hectic rough-housing of two small boys. It has been a few years now and time for a new puppy. I fully expected to be run raggged because every good dog starts as an adorable but crazy puppy. Your approach is a revelation to me! I've learned to proactively and meaningfully communicate with my new puppy around the behaviors we all want and don't want, and we both thank you. I can see now when I was a young, busy mom with our family dogs before, I was letting them run amock and then dealing with it afterward. Not seriously expecting them to understand my woeful, exasperted, "look at this, no-no, that's a no-no!", meant to stop the behavior in the future, but kind of thinking I am letting them know and one day, they'll outgrow it. They did, but we could all have had a less frustrating time. Fast forward, our new boy, Max, has been with us a month, he is 12 wks, he goes into his crate willingly -usually, comes, stays, sits, downs and really looks at me for instruction, what a difference it has made for my stress level and I am sure what his would be with a lot of "look at that no-no" in his life. When I am faltering, I come back to watch or just recall what I can change in how I respond. Thank you so much for the content you put out, you are positively changing pet's and people's experiences!
Thank you for your videos. I adopted a pup back in February a lot of people have tried giving me advice saying I need shock collars / unpleasant correction.
I’ve been watching your videos for years and the positive reinforcement angle to the training has really benefited us and our relationship with our dog
Hey Zak, I'm a balanced trainer myself, and I think that you are making some very good points here: "Adressing the underlying emotional state" indeed is super-important. If not done, frustration can build up in the dog, and then be released elsewhere. This is an issue many people struggle with. And we want to always establish a trusting relationship first with the dog, to avoid this. You're such a cool guy, I think, Zak, always upbeat, positive and open for discussion, and learning from one another. Much appreciated!
I think the problem with this argument is the misrepresentation of what balanced dog training is. A good balnced dog trainer is not yanking the dog around and saying "you'll do what I say or else". They're telling a dog "hey, I need you to pay attention and follow my lead because that's what's best for you". They use tools in order to communicate effectively with a dog. They do not promote abusing a dog. We either grow or break under pressure. A good dog trainer knows when pressure is good and healthy and when it is not.
It's easy to attack an entire philosophy of dog training when you set up a strawman to throw punches at.
Exactly. 90%+ of balanced training is positive reinforcement, they're just also using corrections to teach the dog what is okay and not okay.
The problem might be that all we see on social media is so-called "balanced trainers" using P+ all the damn time. They will say things like "Im using a harmless tool to lead the dog" but the reality is you're strangling the dog everytime he/she pulls 🤦♀️ what they do is far more relevant than what they say, ultimately, and just because you use nice words to describe a technique doesnt mean it isnt abusive to use it systematically
@@melissa2500 Are ypu talking about prong collars?
@@melissa2500 do you know that a dog hitting the end of the leash forcefully on a flat collar, or even pulling on a flat collar can collapse a trachea? A tool used correctly like a prong or e collar to communicate to the dog not to pull before it gets to the point of injury is safer then dragging it around “force free” with a flat collar? Also show dogs are shown on slip leads which in your theory is an aversive abusive tool
@@raylee7566 any type of collar will inevitably strangle your dog. Any. Flat vs prong vs whatever. Where I live, NONE of these are even LEGAL for dogs over 20kg. And obviously, I'm against "hitting the end of the leash" no matter which tool you are using.
I trained my 11mo aussie puppy not to pull with directions and rewards. I use a harness for safety, but ideally I never pull on it on purpose. It works. One of my best friends is a dog trainer and only uses this type of method as well, and it works every damn time. There is no logical or ethical reasons to cause willingly discomfort to dog, especially puppies, when it's absolutely not necessary. Especially before trying anything else.
Dm me if you want proof/videos/tutorials, ill be more than happy to help people stop strangling their dogs for "training". Insta: @murphy.et.ses.amis
Zak, great video, as a trainer myself I appreciate you and the way you explain these concepts to new generations. Thank you
5 mos old male Bernedoodle. Not food motivated but loves praise and affection.
I have followed you on TV and online. I agree with your training method. Been meeting different trainers, checking out references. I found one I like and...fell in shower, dislocated left shoulder and for right now in sling/pain and being super cautious about literally keeping my balance. Waiting to hear on this coming Friday whether I need additional surgery. After I get a better idea when I can 50% strength back and feeling better.
Trainer has an intensive 3 week program (board & train) At end of 3 weeks, the humans must spend 4 hours with trainer. Comes with lifetime support. Wish me luck Zak!
I am training my first pup, Faora, and you have helped me immeasurably.( That's Samson in the pic. ) Thank you so much!
👏👏👏 Realizing that I could effectively train/communicate with a dog without causing them pain (thanks to your videos) is one of the main reasons why I decided to keep my foster pup. I understood that there was a way to keep us both happy and comfortable. I’m so grateful for these videos.
Question for you, this 18 week old pup is still going through biting phases. I am following your recommendations to exercise, redirect to an appropriate item, teach how hard is acceptable to bite, go into a training session, or give him some alone time. Unfortunately the thing that works best is having Bear do something easy that he knows well and then giving him a focus treat (like a kong with peanut butter) to keep him busy for a while until his mood shifts. I’m scared I’m reinforcing the biting by giving the treats. What do you think?
I think you have the best attitude. Your respect of the animal and the patience it takes is not fror everyone of course. You are a wonderful dog trainer and I learn so much from you. Thank you.
Zak!!!
I was just watching one of these videos on training dogs and that trainer was so rough on the dog, i felt bad just watching it and really thought ‘Zak wouldn’t do such a thing, he’d be more gentle’ and closed that video and came to watch yours. Love your methods on the dogs and the way you help us teach our dogs. Thank you for all your hard work!❤️
I think some correction tools are judged too quickly, my dog struggles with recall, we use an ecollar to help us communicate. however it only vibrates to get his attention I would never in 2 million years shock him or anything remotely similar. I also use a martingale collar to help with heelwork training and because when I first rescued him he would slip out of collars and harnesses. Now tho I mostly use it to help break his prey drive focus on cats, squirrels etc and get him refocused on me and some treats. Using tools isn't bad however people who purposely cause their dogs pain or lots of discomfort to get a disired behavior really need to take a step back and look at what they are doing and why.
I think there should not be an e-collar that gives electrical shocks.
@@laululla I agree it's unnecessary and cruel
@@laululla e-collars are not shock collars nor do they give electrical shocks. They use small electrical pulses that are extremely low, so low that you as a human would not be able to perceive it. Humans aren't able to feel the stimulus of an e-collar until it is turned up to about a 6/7 and almost all dogs in an e-collar work off a stimulation level of 4 or lower.
@@user-md7mk7fb8g exactly.
@@user-md7mk7fb8g
I don’t understand a reason why to sell collars where you could give "stimulus".
In my work I sometimes give electrical treatment for humans and from the experience I know that same settings in the same devise can be uncomfortable to some people when others cant feel it.
Here’s my take: I believe positive reinforcement should be used for most dogs, almost all of the time. Say, teaching sit, down, rollover, etc. along with desensitization, it’s completely unnecessary to use any “unpleasant” methods. That also goes for anxious and fear reactive dogs who really just need to build their confidence and where corrections would generally only delay that. Where I think purely positive methods often stop being effective is in super-confident dogs who lack impulse control and/or ignore rewards and redirection. (Dominance also falls under this category but I believe it is relatively uncommon as a problem) And I say, even with those dogs, always try positive methods first, only if it shows no improvement would you move to very mild corrections. At the end of the day, you never want a dog to act out of fear.
I work with a lot of confident high energy dogs, I think the problems comes down to not setting them for success in training. Especially if we are not confident in our training and dog handling skills, we tend to want to take our time and hesitate more, where as these dogs won't always wait around. I've taught many confident dogs impulse control - but we dont want to complete supress their fun, its important to give them time to express themselves. I find training with play works fantastic for these dogs.
This is exactly what "balanced dog training" is, I think... I've adopted a dog from a shelter and positive reinforcement only worked with basic obedience, but had no effect on the leash pulling and reactiveness. Just giving very tiny 'corrections', definitely not janking the leash, helped him understand what pressure on the leash means. Its all about what helps your dog understand what you are communicating. This is just from my experience. Positive only for 6 months didn't have any effect, 'balanced' training helped my boy feel more confident in 2 months. He now knows that I got his back and he can rely on me to help him in situations he has a harder time with... As long as the dogs feel happy, anyone should use what works!
Balanced trainers use positive reinforcement too and I feel like people forget this! We aren’t those alpha people who haven’t matured past the 1900’s way of dog training, we use positive reinforcement too!
We use all 4 of the quadrant
Agree 100% Spectral, I have a dog that is hyper aware and lacks impulse control, the minute I run out of treats his head starts sweeping the rest of the world for his next dopamine hit; treats only serve to enforce overstimulation with him. Since my dog is 150 lbs and still growing I can't wait another year or more to see if using only positive reinforcement ends up working out, he must be corrected for improper behavior and understand that it will not be tolerated. Does that mean that I have to shock and beat him? No, absolutely not, but poor behavior is met with a pop on the leash and direction to do the correct thing.
I agree. I haven’t seen much of this channel, but I would love to see him adopt a dog that’s been sitting at a shelter for 2 years and is completely out of control, aggressive and fearful, to see how he would handle that.
I got my puppy in March 2022.you have guided me( as this is my first puppy)through my puppys stages.i have a balanced happy and good dog although she is coming up to her 1st year and getting larger than i expected.it's your training that has got me a beautiful dog thank you.I have to take into consideration the personality of my dog and we gell together.thank you.
Your methods are my favorite by far. I don’t believe in forcing a dog into compliance using punishment. Your love of dogs is so obvious and your positivity is a joy to watch. I respect that you don’t get defensive but rather explain why you train the way you do and without slamming other trainers methods. You are by far my favorite dog trainer to watch and my husband and I are using your techniques with our foster dog. We don’t currently have a dog of our own ( we lost one in August and one in September), but once we get another dog we will definitely be using your training methods.
Love your training and your humility
I really wish he would admit he's a trick trainer instead of setting up dogs to become more reactive later though. 😕
@@workingsables4483 he's worked with multiple reactive dogs and made a lot of progress via changing their emotional state toward triggers. How has he set dogs up to be more reactive?
@@workingsables4483 agree totally. He’s preaching a propaganda narrative. Respectable talented balance trainers do not train this way. Especially with a dog he is using in this video demonstration of training that does not work on the real world
Your training methods always seem to come back to “good parenting” to me. You don’t want your dog to be scared, or stressed, or worried as they learn. You want your dog to be happy, and calm, and engaged, and excited to learn new things. The bond that’s created by engaging with your dog in such a positive way is remarkable. I found it hard not to say “no” in the beginning but truly found that finding a reason to say “yes” made my dogs learn faster. And they’re so much happier. My brother and sister-in-law thought they had a rather stupid dog, and one who was too obstinate to learn (their attitude pissed me off). I returned to them a very smart dog who loved “leave it, watch me, and wait” and her sister who had become far more engaged and less anxious through her own training sessions. They didn’t have a comment. I think this may be the crux of some of the frustration or anger towards positive training, are people who don’t understand it fully or who don’t want to listen or learn about it. My brother and sister-in-law’s dogs were objectively happier, less anxious, and better behaved. They also formed a much deeper bond with me which I loved. I hope more people can see that it’s not about trying to be right or wrong it’s genuinely about what’s best for you and your dogs.
If that is truly what you believe, that it's about what's best for the dog, then as a balanced trainer I stand by you 100%.
At least it seems we can unite over this one ideal!
The goal of balanced training is not to cause fear, but to give the dog direction. Watch Tom Davis. He does great videos and explains this. The channel is upstate canine academy.
If your dog is aggressively barking, giving a pop on a gentle leader or slip or prong, it doesn’t hurt them and doesn’t teach them to fear u. It’s just a quick, “cut it out”. It’s effective and completely appropriate for the situation. They need to know certain behavior r unacceptable.
@@inkwhiskers9948Nah. This may work for “easy” dogs, but I can’t see a high drive dominant dog be trained successfully with sticky positive reinforcement alone.
@@vanessamcgrew4486 We should train the dog in front of us, and change methods based on that, not on what the public thinks of us or what our egos tell us.
I personally see no need to cut aversives out of training altogether. It's natural and not unethical (used correctly). But if the dog in front of me responds better to positive only, I'll do that.
@@inkwhiskers9948 the issue I have is when positive reinforcement alone does NOT work. And because of people being mislead into thinking anything more is abusive or bad training, they r never able to train their dog and that can be dangerous.
Thank you Zac I have benefited greatly from this video, as you said - in a nutshell - when we know better we do better. I trained as a balanced trainer, but your video today has really changed my mind on a number of the methods I have used - mainly collar pops and no's and uh's. You have given me a great deal of food for thought and I look forward to trying a more positive approach with my own dogs and students. I am off to practice the 'on the spot' training using the positive reinforcement method, thanks again ! from Tamworth Australia. 😀
Let me know how it goes! I really appreciate your perspective!
Excellent video. I’ve learned so much since I began watching your videos and am amazed at the progress with my 6 year old Black and Tan Hound since I began trying your methods.
For anyone seeking to use an e-collar, understand it is an advanced and late stage training tool. Your dog should be able to successfully and reliably complete basic commands like sit, stay, come when called, wait, leave it, and place prior to ever using an e-collar. If your dog can not do these tasks, do not jump into training with an e-collar and DO NOT TRAIN WITH AN E-COLLAR WITHOUT THE SUPERVISION OF A PROFESSIONAL. Furthermore, vet that professional. They should be able to provide you with clients who can give feedback about their training, them as a person, and the trainer should be able to provide their credited credentials to you as well as testimonials from previous clients you can contact. If they can't provide this information or are reluctant and/or can't produce it in a speedy fashion, whether they be balanced or positive, DO NOT trust them with your dog. *puts soap box away*
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Would you like to be shocked?
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet some of them just vibrate or make a quiet noise to que them to do something(such as containing them in an invisible fence, or cuing them to come), not all e collars are shock collars, nor are all of them painfull or upsetting for a dog. I do agree that shock collars shouldn't be used though.
@@ASMRyouVEGANyet please educate yourself about e collars before you say such nonsense
Silly advice. There us no such thig as a "professional" in dog training because dog training is not a professional field. It requires no training or education. So, what "credentials" is a dog trainer supposed to provide? All you need is a functional brain and an ability to follow instructions and watch a few videos on how to use an e-collar from experienced trainers. An e-collar is not a "late stage training tool" because it should not be used in teaching a dog commands. Teaching sit, stay, come, and so on is independent from using an e-collar because an e-collar should be used to prevent a behavior, not to teach a behavior.
A specifically for the place command I have never seen an e-collar trainer train a dog with an e-collar to teach the actual place commands the dog is taught using positive reinforcement then once the place command has been taught body collar is used to do the place command from a distance I've never heard of a person using an e-collar to teach the place command itself
Exactly! He doesn't know and fully understand how tools work. He shouldnt be saying such things. It confuses people.
Thank you for this video! I'm sharing it on my fb...I have some friends and family that I e debated this topic with, and I think this will be beneficial for them to see.
I think you’re a good guy with a good heart and soul...in the end that’s that matters...all of your intentions with dogs and dog training come from love...there is no wrong in that. Great job! Thank you for being an advocate dogs! 💕💕
Most people dream about meeting their favorite actors or singers, but I've had multiple dreams about getting to meet Inertia. She's so special, give her a nice little pet for me. (20 days until I get to pick up my Nova)
that sounds like an awesome dream. I wish I had dreams like that
Great video. Most people like to criticize or mock positive reinforcement trainers, but the results are proof that it works. Keep up the good work Zak, you're a great example to those following you.
Why would peole mock positive reinforcement? o_O
Thw reason people mock them is videos like this bashing other styles of training. I utilize psoriasis reinforces in my training techniques, and the e collar is not ever used as a punishment with my dogs, neither the prong. Many of my client dogs don't ever get up to thst point and stay on a martingale or use just a harness or flat collar with rewards. Dogs don't learn one size fits all, just like there's different types of teachers for kids.
If a dog is a danger and trying to bite people or dogs to a certain extreme, yes, i will implement the balanced out fair correction and then follow that up with intense reward.
Dogs have to learn to handle discomfort, I wish I could say otherwise, but again, same for humans. It's time we start setting our dogs up for success in the world instead of being shocked when the dog bites someone with the handlers back turned.
People only mock PURELY positive reinforcement trainers. I'm not sure that anyone with a dog would disagree that positive reinforcement can be useful. HOWEVER, does anyone really know how to fix an aggressive dog with purely treats and affection? No. Not to my knowledge.
@@workingsables4483 💯💯
Zack even calls himself a trainer while not working with other people and their dogs. This is just a marketing guy trying to convince people of some sort of ultimate right and wrong. Maybe he thinks he's jezus. And meanwhile real dog trainers lose their jobs.
I love your videos. I also love your methods. They work! It is also encouraging that it doesn’t alway work out in your videos. It encourages me to keep trying. It is definitely easier to reward and catch them doing something good.
Zak is my favorite dog trainer. There are lots of dog training videos with different methods out there, but I consistently get the best results with your positive philosophy. Thanks Zak!
I think you should look into talking with Tom Davis cause I feel you are very misguided on what is balanced training vs dominance theory.
Omg yes!!
I tried to train my dog all positive for almost one year. It made great progress and he is pretty good today. That said, he is reactive to male dogs when he is in the leash. I have tried for months to end this behavior with positive reinforcement, and I couldn't. My mom also walks my dog, and she is 65 years old. My dog weights 40 pounds. One day she was walking him, he saw a dog and he pulled so hard on the leash to go bark at the dog that she fell. After that I searched for another trainer, who uses punishment. In 2 weeks he solved my problem. So, here is my question, to what point should we only think about the dog's well being? And, is it really well being if he can't handle situations that he will always face in his life without freaking out? This is a genuine question, if you can please answer. I feel like he is much happier now, even if we have to walk with a collar on, instead of a harness. But I don't know if this will be only a temporary fix, and in the future it will make things worse.
The question is, does you dog need to face situations where they are reactive and clearly anxious, right now? For example, my dog can be reactive to little dogs. So i avoid little dogs, and i am vigilant in my assessment of the area if i am walking her. In the meantime i am doing online course in positive reinforcement for reactive dogs which have taught me a range of techniques, starting small with magnet hand etc. I am hoping to finish the year with The Play Way, but my first priority is to make sure i don't put my dog in a situation where she thinks she needs to react. Perhaps a change you could have made was to not have your mum walk the dog until you both had techniques mastered? Is the walk really for the dog if they are punished throughout? If the walk is really for you and your mum, then perhaps the dog doesn't need to go on that walk.
Also, i should mention that FDSA and other organisations have a lot of great, cheap course that can provide you with the knowledge to have a well round happy dog, that isn't a temporary fix.
@@candiceallen7967 Where I Iive the encounter with other dogs can´t be avoided. I don´t live in USA, and I live in a very busy avenue. There are dogs with people, street dogs. We try to avoid as much as we can, but we get at least one encounter on every walk. The walks are for the dog. As I work, my mother helps me to walk him, so he can get some air and exercise. I can maybe wait until he is better trained, but them he would have to stay only in the house. Not so sure this would be a good solution. And he is not getting punished all the time. Honestly, I walked him these weekend without one correction. And we saw other dogs. He is behaving much better now. And this is why I made the question, because I am afraid of this been a temporary solution only. Because if this is for real, I really think it is worth it. 2 weeks of corrections (and never all the time. It was always mixed with positive reinforcemnet) to fix reactivity is not bad. He is really happy, walking with much more confidence. I don´t know. He brough this question in the video and it made me think.
@@candiceallen7967 I forgot to say, but thank you so much for taking the time to answer me. I appreciate it!
@@deboracorrea1091 Yes, it will last forever. You have shown him getting reactive is wrong, now, through positive encounters with other dogs [not meeting], just being there, non of his fears came true, his confidence will grow. His behaviour will become the norm. You will not have to keep correcting, BUT always keep being positive.
I just found your channel, and I love your style. My “puppy” is a 9 month old 65 lb Sheppard mix. He’s totally untrained but very smart. I will watch your videos to see what I can do with him.
I've learned much from you, as well as, learning about positive reinforcement techniques. Thank you. You are really good at demonstrating the training and explaining the methods you use.
Question. What is the long lead (brand, length, link if available) you use with Biscuit?
Our first lab puppy was trained the ", old-fashioned" choke chain with pops etc per his obedience classes. Many lab and lab mixes later, the same organization now uses positive reinforcement, as we plan to do with the new puppy we are getting next week (another lab). We have grown as owners, as has the organization. This training is much more fun for all involved and even more effective. It does take longer at the start to build trust and a relationship between us all, but is worth it.
Balanced and old fashioned are not the same methodology at all, and Zak probably shouldn't be talking on a subject he doesn't actually understand. 🤪
@@workingsables4483 Exsactly
Successfully training (using positive reinforcement thus a positive association) commands like no, leave it, and drop it takes care of a lot of the feeling of a need for aggressive training methods. It’s less stressful on both the dog and the owner too. And I ALWAYS reward crate time, upon entering AND exiting, and even while he’s just chilling in there. He now understand bedtime with the “Night, Night” command and lays right down in his bed inside his crate when he hears it! ♥️
Balanced dog training is not this at all. Balanced doesn't mean no reward it means fair consequence for behavior followed by showing the appropriate behavior and then rewarding.
@@workingsables4483 Exactly.
@@workingsables4483 Yep! I used balanced with my dog, and I use treats and rewards all the time. It's sad trainers like Zak spread damaging information about balanced training.
@@TheWorkingAussie ok. So explain what 'balanced' training is then?
@@nomoretax Balanced is using all 4 quadrants of training, Positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement, positive punishment and negative punishment. It's also using what works for the individual dog, dogs are not all the same and require different approaches. And contrary to what uneducated people say, we do use +r using treats, praise, toys, etc.
You’re amazing and so helpful. I’ve watched so many of your videos and they have helped tremendously.
This is ridiculous and your comparison is nonsense. Balanced training is 95% positive.
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I hear a lot that the science says that the possitive reinforcement is the most effective way to train train any dog regardless of the behavior problems it may have. But the thing is I don't see you or any pure possitive trainer working with big aggresive dogs. But then I see the "so called balanced trainers" working with that type of dog all the time. Usually these balanced trainers get to work with dogs that have passed through many pure possitive trainers that have failed before. I love science, but I see that studies about dog training are not very trust worthy. I've never seen a dog study that meassures the effectiveness of different dog training systems that considers the dog temperament and drive, the level of distractions in the enviroment and dog's behavioral problems. Without taking these variables into consideration any study would be little more than trash.
You are believing that these dogs are “aggressive “because they are being placed in situations that caused them to behave aggressively. The reason you don’t see positive trainers have these outbursts are because they know how to keep a dog under threshold and counter condition them and manage them and desensitize them. I do this all the time on my channel. Keep in mind that dogs are not aggressive but sometimes behave aggressively depending upon context and that is the key! I have many examples of working with bite history dogs on my channel. Hope this helps!
@@zakgeorge It would be nice to see that in a future series you pick a dog that is in danger to be put down due to agressive behavior. I don't say it with bad intensions If possitive training can help this type of dogs I'd love to see it :)
@@kira1823 Yes! I would love to see this!
@@kira1823 all due respect to Zak, I don't think he's qualified to take on a case like that. An aggression case in danger of BE is a task for a behavior consultant at minimum.
Whether it’s situational or not, it is extremely difficult to control everything about the dog. That’s not real life. I’ve been training with purely positive trainers, and my dog has the same issues. Is positive training ideal? Yes. Is every situation or owner ideal? No. We don’t live in a perfect world. Am I going to use punitive measures? No. Am I going to be abusive? No. But real life says that if a dog cannot behave in spite of the situation, he’s going to be put down. I’ve had three vets suggest that for my dog. I choose one more best effort, and that’s going to cost me a LOT of money. More than the dog’s worth, but i have to try because at this point, the purely positive dog trainers have me so guilt ridden and torn up about everything that I’m completely useless, or feel that way. So is a Gentle Leader aversive? Even some purely positive trainers are okay with them. I’ve used one on all but my first two dogs, and my first dog was a gift from God. She was perfect for a first timer. Was she dominant? Ask any dog around who the boss was. It was her! Definitely not aggressive but the boss except for my husband. She accepted me as having authority too. Will I use an e-collar? Heck no! I’ve seen dogs harmed. Will I correct a dog? Yes. Do I think it’s awesome to watch you work? Yes. However, I put my kids into timeout many times; nose and toes was a routine thing because it gave me time to cool down after they misbehaved. Then I could work with them positively. Same thing with my dog. He’s not going to whatever he wants. He’s going to behave and he’s going to work within the constraints of my lifestyle.Sometimes that may take more correction, often it takes an incredible amount of calm, and it always takes patience. Quick fixes are no good, but my dog must obey the rules.
Thanks for standing up for dogs to not get yanked around and shocked! Treating our dogs with respect and dignity is the way to go :) ❤
Too bad yanking and cranking is NOT balanced training. This guy is a liar
@@justagirlandherdogs615 Are you working as a balanced trainer? I don't see why you're so personally offended in this comment section.
@@FWS_Sinister I do all methods. The fact is I don’t tolerate BS. The same goes who shit and spread BS on +R
@@justagirlandherdogs615 Exactly! All the balanced trainers I know don't shock and yank their dogs. Lol I use balanced methods with my dog and she is well behaved, well trained, happy, and loves life. In fact, most of our training is +r, contrary to what uneducated positive only people think.
@@TheWorkingAussie 💯💯💯
LOVING these videos. We just put a deposit down on a golden retriever puppy (born June 10th), and I can’t wait to apply what I’m learning.
We also lived in Alaska (Palmer area) for 10 years, until 2016. We miss it so much, so it is wonderful seeing you explore the areas we know as well:)
Do you split your time between Louisiana and Alaska? Not sure how well you know the area, but I was a photography tour guide for 8 years - so let me know if you need any cool locations to check out;)
Keep up the great work.
I very much enjoy seeing your training videos! I've been watching for ayear in prep for getting a standard poodle pup. She was born a couple of days ago so now its getting more real. Yes, I have watched other trainers as I was learning techniques and settled into your process. I love hearing about what the latest info is from solid research. Adapting to increased research and knowledge in our lives is usually beneficial. In this case our dogs lives as well. I'm still working on come when called with my 11 yr cat....... lol
What happens when the reinforcement of treats, toys or a kind voice isn’t as rewarding to the dog as barking and lunging at other dogs and people?
This is where positive reinforcement falls short. Literally didn’t matter how many treats I give my dog if I didn’t sternly sit him down on his ass every now and again to tell him what’s up, he would have no reason to listen to me.
I've learned SO much from your training methods Zak, I get compliments on how well behaved my 7 month old pups are :)
I truly appreciate that you clarified your position on training. This should be a wholesome debate between the variety of trainers out there. Personally, balanced-training has been most effective for me (because of the time it takes is much shorter than positive-reinforcement). Naive dogs receive positive-reinforcement (for my company), and dogs that are more entrained in bad behavior will receive negative-reinforcement. Thank you for helping the community, with such immense patience. I know I have not always supported you, but your perseverance is a blessing.
Hey Zack,
I'm not new to your channel and appreciate the journey in regards to training you've been on for the past year or two. As someone who has undergone a similar journey, I salute your efforts to pass on the message.
On a private note, I would love to hear about your online training carrier from the perspective of a trainer who would like to migrate online!
Biscuits is very intelligent ! 🥰 And she is so cute !
Are you confusing balanced training with dominance-based training?
he for sure is
Oh 100%
Really interesting video, thanks for making it. We have a 3 1/2 monthl old puppy and we are constantly questioning how we are training him, what's working and why. We have an added circumstance of having a 14 year old dog family member too who we need to consider. It's hard to find good advice on how to work with our particular circumstance, but we're doing the best we can.
Definitely don’t recommend zak
@@justagirlandherdogs615 Ok? He didn’t ask. Are you just being a hater on every comment?
@@FWS_Sinister sure
Love your training method. It's helped me have such a strong bond with my dog.
l'd love to see you talk with Dr. Sarah-Elizabeth Byosiere!! She's doing the coolest things with researching dog behavior!
Acknowledging my kids good behavior with a reward may have worked for good behavior but ignoring their bad behavior only encouraged more undesirable behavior.
Good comment! Simply ignoring bad behavior isn’t what I typically recommend. Managing and preventing unwanted behavior in addition to encouraging incompatible alternative behaviors tends to go a long way!
@@zakgeorge We live in a world where that's not always possible though. And some of us have dogs that have those bad behaviors already well integrated.
And many positive trainers do recommend to ignore bad behavior.
Exactly! And “trainers” like ZG are the ones recommending that people euthanize their family pets because they can’t “encourage” a dog out of bad behaviors. Some dogs respond well to positive only. Awesome. Not all of them. My dogs behavior was NOT fear based, as determined by the positive only trainers I started with. But I took my dog to positive only trainers because if the grief I was given for considering balanced training. All three of them told me to euthanize my dog because he was “too aggressive to be helped.” Within ONE single session with my first balanced trainer, I got the tools to help my dog. And now, my dog is trustworthy and living his happiest life with me.
I love your style of training, to me, this is the only way to build a strong bond with your dog while teaching them to become the best dog they can be. I'm getting a puppy soon and I cannot wait to use your methods x
You have no idea how much you've learned me. I'm so thankful. Love you 💝
I think sometimes people who inappropriately used e-collars give the e-collar a bad name when you have large aggressive dogs you do not have the time to risk damage to the dog or a human when it is much safer to you he collar training that is not damaging to the dog itself
💯
Hi Zac, I always enjoy watching your training videos. While I agree with positive training as much as possible, there are a couple of online "balanced" trainers that I feel are very effective as well as kind. One specifically does not advocate a "dominance" or "alpha" philosophy, but rather a leadership role. In training I use 99% positive but the one thing I use an e-collar for is off lease fun with my poodle. We work in a common area by my townhouse and he loves to full out run, as fast as he can. It brings him so much joy and he loves to smell every inch of the ground. We trained together using the "pager", (which feels like a phone vibrating). He is almost 2 years old and at this point I can let him off leash to fetch, run and explore without worry. When I call him, he will turn on a dime and run to me, and if he hesitates, I just give him a quick page and he comes tearing to me, but not because he is afraid. There is so much excitement as he runs to me for the waiting treat and "Good, come." Sometimes his hesitation is a good smell or a person or distracting noise but when he feels the reminder, he is like, "Oh yea, Momma's calling me."
I feel like you were exaggerating how the trainers I watch use "tools" to help people fix their own behaviours, in order to give themselves and their dogs a healthier, happier life. It goes back to how the owner is handling the dog. Unfortunately, we don't all have access to trainers like you. I took my dog to a trainer who said she used only positive training. We worked on loose leash training in a park and my miniature poodle could not contain himself and was uninterested in treats. The trainer took him from me and starting walking with him, and after a couple of minutes gave him a few good pops on the leash. I was not happy because she also will not allow the use of slip leashes in her class. A slip leash will not hurt him but a few good pops with a flat collar might. Anyway, I just wanted to say if positive only training worked for every owner, there would be no need for balanced training. Keep up the good work, I learn something new from you all the time, and for those of us who need to "correct" our pups sometimes, don't be too harsh. :)
I’m so glad you talked about the issue of how to correct unwanted behavior. I took my new 10 wk old puppy (now almost 2 yrs old) to a trainer that used the electric shock collars for corrections. I didn’t understand the long term ramifications. Now, it’s a chore to get any collar or harness on her when we want to go for walks or out in public. She scratches at and tries to remove a collar, wearing herself out in the process. If I had only known then….
Hi Zak again brilliant video your fantastic with your work i really feel im prepared for my new dog now with the help of your serieses, thanks again keep up the awesome content
So, I have trained dogs and horses for a long time. On a small scale, mind you, I'm not a professional trainer by any means. I think positive only training is preferable in MOST situations. I have trained mustangs from right off the range to being able to ride them, and have always endeavored to do so in a way that promotes trust. I agree that the word no should be used sparingly. It's far more meaningful if it's not over-used. Conversely, I have definitely seen animals that are at emergency levels of bad behavior, and sometimes to bring them under control so you can actually begin to train, it can be necessary to venture into the area of positive punishment. (Ex: If your dog is trying to tear apart another dog, I don't feel like a leash pop is out of line). Some people jump right to positive punishment and think THAT is training. I've always leaned heavily on positive reinforcement and praise with dogs and horses, and very rarely had to use positive punishment to address a behavior. Even then, always the least 'force' possible. If you can achieve with gentle pressure the same thing as a leash pop, that would definitely be my preferred choice.
Dont tell them that, it doesnt work with their straw man. They would rather point you to all their studies that PROVE CONCLUSIVELY that a puppy would rather learn a "sit" with treats than with harsh beatings. Yes, thank you science, very insightful.
@@TheBurrito171 Lol, because let's be honest - gentle pressure is the same as a harsh beating.
So glad you gave the comparison between Positive reinforcement and "balanced/Adversive" training. Helpful when explaining to ppl why I use PRT.
please dont put adversive and balanced in the same category. balanced trainers dont beat up dogs. discipline doesnt mean abuse. putting a kid in a time out is discipline, and certainly isnt abusive.
Sorry I meant aversive. Spelled it wrong. Just sounded like it had a "D" in it. Oops 🤐
I think this is how people should live life. Love your vibe. If you decide to have kids, they are going to be so lucky. If you raise them with the gentleness and kindness of these animals, they will be in great hands.
I studied psychology in undergrad and graduate school. One thing that comes to mind when watching this video is that positive rewards are the most effective tool for behavior modification and either positive or negative punishment are both less effective in the long term then either positive or negative rewards.
I really love your videos Zak, but one problem that I have with your channel is that you never deal with truly aggressive dogs. I've seen your videos where you emphasis on creating distance until your dog is ready, but you never really go further than that or follow-up on how the dog is later. We haven't seen a dog that you were uncomfortable introducing Inertia to and it'd be great to see how you'd overcome that type of dog aggression.
Watch the Chop series
@@FWS_Sinister that’s not true aggression
@@FWS_Sinister I did watch the Chop series and it was a good example of what to do with a dog reactive dog, but Chop was still able to meet and play with Inertia without a muzzle.
@@FWS_Sinister no we are talking about not just reactivity but true aggression
@@justagirlandherdogs615 they are not mutually exclusive, they work together
I agree 100% with zak when it pertains to pets . My concern is that the dogs in shelters that will be put to sleep if their behavior is not corrected . 390,000 dogs will be put to sleep this year. If a balance trainer can get a dog adopted from a shelter that other wise would be put down . Maybe balance training should be considered in certain circumstances. Great video as always .
The problem is... balanced training suppresses behavior. So, if balanced training is used to get dogs adopted, then unexperienced owners could have a ticking time bomb in their household. It is a tricky subject unfortunately.. :/
@@JurassicWhitney A good balanced trainer does more than just suppress behaviour. Initially it is suppressed, but over time you teach the dog to understand a correction, to which then it is less aversive to the dog because it understands what it means. After that, you then work on the underlying issues. But you have to address the problems before you can address the emotional underlying issues!
@@m13l because you teach them what is desirable… just because you correct a behaviour doesn’t mean it’s fixed. It means you can then work on changing the dogs underlying emotional response via positive reinforcement
I used the crate with my dog as a pup and he hated it but it was needed for house training, recovery from being neutered, feeding, or if I was boarding a dog at my house so my pup can observe my well trained lab greet other dogs so he learns proper etiquette when greeting dogs. He doesn't like the crate and I've tried to have him associate the crate with good things. I also used the crate to give my dogs and those being boarded a space to settle and take a break from the action. Some dogs feel a bit stressed in a crate but the crate has helped with a lot of issues and helped prevent issues with other pets and people. It helped with making my neutered pup become less aggressive with intact dogs.
Totally agree! Positive reinforcement is def my go to. Each dog that I've had has been very different form the next so had to do different techniques for each but at the end of the day if my dog still enjoys our time when we are training it's a win win.
Can you do a hound breed? I have a beagle that I’m struggling with!
second this I have used many of Zach teachings with my beagle, lol but I would like the stubbornness of a hound breed shown , because sometimes it seems their nose overrides all
I would love to know how to train my Shih-tzu to not bark in the house because of something she heard outside. I have had her 6 years and while she has cut way back on it, she still barks. I don't mind her barking if she heard someone coming to the house, but vehicles driving by or neighbors in their own yard should not be barked at. Thank you!
6 years is a long time to be doing something but I would start with desensitisation so doing training sessions with quiet sounds outside, creating a cue like "That's a sound! Good job!" And rewarding.
I have a almost 1 year old Shih Tzu/Bichon cross that barks at every noise he hears outside. I have been trying different training methods from different trainers including yours Zak and have been unsuccessful. 🇨🇦
I love your method for building communication and multiple different obedience reasons and like the way your way gives the dog a chance to think for itself I think that's very crucial imo granted I'm only 16 and I haven't had a dog of my own yet but I've spent many hours watching many different channels and listening to all different types of people and why the way they teach works for them and how it benefits the dog.. On that note that's why I prefer Beckmans method to establish boundaries with the dog I also really like his method but i always tell people when mentioning either of you is that your both respectable in what you do and how you do it.. it's all in how the dog responds and how well you're able to communicate that way of teaching... atleast that's the opinion I've gathered so far from what I've figured out.... Also if any of you made it to this point Than you you're amazing, and have a wonderful night,evening,morning
Zak. These wonderful videos have gotten me into the mood for having a puppy next month! I'm getting a Border Collie.
What would be useful, is a CIVIL debate between a positive reinforcement trainer, and a balanced trainer. Not an angry, name calling, bitter fest, but an informed respectful debate. This would be a useful format to help people make informed decisions about how to train their dogs
I agree. I'm a balanced dog trainer, and am honestly getting really tired of people like Zak talking about a method they don't understand or use at all.
Other trainers have tried to get Zak to have a discussion like that on their channels
@@workingsables4483 💯💯
He won’t, because he’s too sensitive and it’ll hurt his ego.
@@Nocomment552 💯💯💯
I would love your take(I’ve been bashed horribly) on a 165lb 2 year old intact newf. I ONLY did positive training for 10 months. I tried to be exciting, up the treat rewards etc. I can tell you I’m lucky my shoulder doesn’t have permanent damage. He would take off at dogs, birds, squirrels, nothing I did when we were out kept his focus on me and I watched your videos a lot. I had to out of safely for him(what if he ran into traffic or at an aggressive dog)have him ecollar trained. Finally I he would heel etc no longer was I getting dragged to the ground. Now this is still a daily work in progress
So my question to YOU(again I’ve been bashed because apparently I’m awful for doing this to a Newfie) how would you suggest handling a giant breed with high prey drive, and almost no food drive??
Keep using and training w the e collar? It seems like your dog understands it so far? Teach the behavior you want first, then layer in the e collar.
Good for you ! I'm glad you did what was best for you ! F the haters
@@Erin_29 we are getting there! I’m actually able to use a slip lead. He does at times go but he will stop. Work in progress!
@@chelseag724 thank you!
@@MaximillianandRubyGrace 👏
I love that you teach with positive reinforcement! I always heard about it but never thought it actually worked but your videos is proof that you don’t always have to punish animals or children, etc. in order to teach them to act right. It actually does seem to work better to show them the right way and reward them rather than punishing them every time they do something the wrong way. It’s so simple but definitely something I needed to see to believe!
Zack, I think this is an awesome way to train your dog. Never stop taping!