Hello from (old) England! I have a 2009 KTM 200 EXC (same as an XC-W). Two things I can suggest, both are common known issues from back in the day when these bikes were new, I found them from researching all the old forums etc... ...Firstly - In standard trim these bikes will never rev out like most 2 strokes, kind of feels like they have a rev limiter which in effect they do, the standard CDI is programmed to shut the engine down at quite a low engine speed compared to most 2 strokes. I think KTM did this on the grounds of safety as it's essentially a 125 engine with a stroker crank and bigger cylinder/piston, the dynamic forces of these 2 things will likely stretch the engine close to it's limits at high RPM's. SOLUTION - it was common back in the day to fit a CDI off of a 125sx, I've bought one but not tested it yet as I want to get my fresh motor nicely run in before potentially straining it with higher RPM's. This issue is probably made worse by the wide ratio gearbox, it highlights the narrow working RPM range of the engine. ...Secondly - Cylinder head squish, these engines come with a very big/conservative squish sometimes up to 1.8mm! Commonly considered safe to reduce to 1mm while not increasing the overall compression ratio too much. These heads can be machined but it's very tricky due to the stepped design. VHM do a head which also adds cooling benefits but they are expensive. I've not done this but I may in the future. I hope this helps. Gareth.
I did a 200 comparison with the KTM, KDX and a GasGas when I worked for Dirt Rider Magazine. Low rpm response and traction from the KDX but the KTM had roughly 10 more ponies on top. I never broke either one so never had them apart, but off-idle roll-on is the only plate the KDX should have any edge on yhe KTM.
I had 2002 KTM 200 exc that I bought blown up. I bought a new cylinder and powervalve assembly off ebay that said it fit my year. It did fit my year bike but the powervalve assembly was a different size than the one that came off my bike. The two side barrels for the powervalve were a different diameter than what my bike came with. The bike ran with the ebay cylinder and powervalve assembly but all of the power was bottom end, there was almost nothing up top. I managed to find another cylinder that had powervalve castings that were the same size as the one that came off my bike, once I swapped in that new cylinder with the original powervalve assembly the bike woke up. Same bottom end lug as before but now it ripped up top. I don't know if I bought a 125 cylinder off ebay that someone listed as a 200 (they were the same size bore in those years), but I do know that different cylinders can fit on the bike and run, but not be the correct cylinder/powervalve for the bike. Perhaps that is the case here, but if the bike ran great before the rebuild then most likely not. Looking at your cylinder from a previous video it's hard to tell if the powervalve barrels are the right size, but I have a couple old cylinders/powervalves that I could measure to compare to yours.
Your tire looks too much "inflated". You have too little contact between the tire and the dirt. Are you running mousses? Use mousses and an enduro specific tire (yours does not look like one, but I may be wrong...). Also try to tune your suspension. Hard enduro specific settings suck for everything else, but of course are great for that kinda stuff. Cheers from Italy!
Ignition on a two stroke is either setup for bottom end or top end power, the stock cdi has a curve to help out but your base timing is very sensitive. A new case might have a different mark than the old one, Id call a ktm tech and see if that case/year and your stator/year are the same marks and if not youll have to time it correctly with a degree wheel and note the new mesurement for your bike.
Hey, loving the progress on this bike! I had a 2006 250 exc. First ride I thought it felt a bit flat on the top from what I was expecting. Slipping clutch but it took me a while to notice, not sure why but cars and 4 stroke road bikes I know the first time it slips. Put a fresh clutch pack in and it was no good. Tried to bleed the clutch and no matter how I tried I couldn't get fresh fluid in it. I tried vacuum bleeding from the slave cylinder, pressure feeding from slave, pumping with the lever. The fluid wouldn't move. I rebuilt the master cylinder and it was perfect. I don't think I needed the clutch pack in all honesty Clutch felt fine before the m/c rebuild Your little road test, I'd say you have clutch slip there, it seemed to rip through the gears but didn't really add as much speed as it should have been. Good luck with it!
Your simplest and easiest solution for Low end Torq is to install a FWW and adjust the PV toward the upper mark. And you can tune your igniton curve softer.
Fww ?? Flywheel ?? I thought flywheels take power away in exchange for more control like they smooth the revs out by making less torq and power all round lol I don't think il ever put a flywheel on my bike
Check your gearing vs stock for your year model. Ktm 200’s (at least the sx which im familiar with) have a really low primary gear ratio necessitating a taller than normal final gear set. The exhaust on these bikes is a big tuning tool; the gnarly and shorty is going to be all low-mid power. Fatty would be best for all around power if you can find one though you will give up ground clearance; powercore will get you smoother broader power as well. Someone mentioned sx cdi, that would also be a good mod. Squish correction if not done yet would be good to do. Exhaust and gearing will have a huge effect on power concentration
I had a 2013 XC-W and I'd say to have a look at the power valve. When I first got the bike, it felt like a 125 but with more bottom end. I then had a play around with the power valve to give me more mid and low torque (power valve opens later in RPMs) but I felt like there way absolutely no top end left. Did a drag race with my 125SX and while the 200 pulled away initially, it wasn't gaining once both bikes got up into the RPMs.
I ride a 200 exc irl in the mountains But i dont ever have the need to rev it out that much to make it up gnarly sections?? We have stock gearing for a 05 KTM 200 exc Edit: also dont know if you saw but the 200 has a extremely fine tuneable powerband would be worth showing the viewers how that systems work!!!
Hey Kincade, since the first video of you riding the 200 I was thinking right away that this bike's clutch is slipping. Curious to see if my keyboard mechanical skills are on point LOL. Love the Bike and Channel BTW
Check the power valve actuator, had the same problem with one of my 200s and the actuator wasn’t lined up, It won’t cost anything to pull your jug up a half inch to check it. My bike would run great until you tried getting on it hard then it wouldn’t rev out, it spent weeks tuning the carb and messing with power valve settings.
200 loyalist here! Put a torqdrive clutch in that thing and send the Hinson stuff back. I did it to mine and went from 11 steel/friction plates to 21. Well worth the money.
While not super relevant to help you troubleshoot, I will recommend a high compression head (or just insert). I just put an RK Tek head on my 300 and I can legitimately say that it has been the best bolt on mod I have done to any powersports machine ever. The bottom to mid TQ and better fuel consumption is very noticeable and I would recommend for any two stroke.
Hi from Wales. I ride a KTM 125 exc 6 days 2016 for extreme enduro. I have been doing it for a couple of years now and won in the youth class last year. I have two suggestions for you which you could try. One is using one thin bass gasket to give the bike more compression because in one of your previous episodes you put two bass gaskets in the engine. Two is buy a long end exhaust to give the bike more bottom end and it will be more of a smooth power delivery which will benefit you so much. I am not saying it could be clutch slip but you could give this a go and see if it helps you. All the best with you racing in sliver kings hard enduro. And I hope you find the problem with the bike
If you still have the stock carb , take the smart carb off , and try it. I tried the smart carb on two different bikes , I ride 5000 to 10000 feet , and I never could get it to run right , and yes I read there tuning manual front to back and sideways , and also had multiple conversations with them at smart carb. For me the properly jetted Kehin was money. I change jets twice a year for temp changes. Takes like 10 mins. Not trying to bash the smart carb , because it works for some people, but you might be surprised if you experiment between the two.
Check that power valve out, make sure it’s doing power valve things and doing them correctly. And try lower pressure for tech terrain or softer compound tire
Could be the clutch slipping like you said. I have a 200 2013 ktm and it’s been riddled with issues such as no power from mid to top end. After properly jetting you could feel the clutch slipping and the plates not properly being disengaged. In my case the plates haves been redone but it’s the master cylinder on the clutch that’s the issue, I’m currently in the process of getting a rebuild kit for it so hopefully it fixes. Hope this helps!
I had a 2003 KDX 220 that was a beast! I sold that bike to get a 2016 200 xcw. I regret it every time I ride. The handling on the KTM and the brakes are night and day difference, but the power on the KDX was way better. Tons of low end and screamed on top. It was tuned, of course, but an amazing motor. I’m somewhat underwhelmed by the KTM. 😥😥
About the E-Start. I have an 525 2003 Exc You can get all the parts for the e-start of amazon for about 250€ idk about dollar It is much cheaper and works the same
I ride a later model ktm 200 and my dad used to ride multiple kdx 200s back in the 90s and he reckons that the ktm is stronger down low while the kawasaki had more top end power. He reckons that the ktm 200s have very smooth power while the kdx was faster but also harder to ride in sketchy situations. It should have a wicked bottom-mid range power but I think its normal for the power to fall off where a 125 would still be pulling.
Hate to say, but it sounds lean still. The dung dung sound on decel is what my old yz250x sounded like when the metering rod was adjusted to lean or it started getting really hot. (Lectron H series) It was really bad in race once, I had to mash the kill switch and whack the throttle to cool the cylinder.
Agreed on spanking the KDX200. The KDX200 is a great bike for its intended purpose but he KTM 200 motor is in a class by itself. Honestly, it's such a wicked little motor. It can be tuned to match most any occasion.
That's exactly how my brotherz 08 200xcw is mid and low end is great but not much up top! And jetting is perfect, I believe it to be a weighted flywheel, or it could need some porting and higher compression.
This era of KTMS (I owned a 125 and 200) had stators go bad. The symptom is often no HP on the top end. It will start fine, run down low fine but deliver no hit on the top. Make sure the PV is free but it most likely a stator issue.
Make sure the power curve plug is undone it’s kinda like now adays rain map or sun map on the betas if it’s plugged in tho it’s more mellow flat feeling. Had an 07 xc 200 new and noticed the plug not together and when referring to manual found out that’s what it was. Under the tank area
I know your geting alot of random advise on this issue. but hear me out..... Ive owned an 02 MXC 200 which I've raced twice in the Idaho City 100. I also currently own a 02 KDX 200 which I'm building to race the Idaho City 100 this year. (and owned multiple ktm 300s from multiple years) Yes the KTM should beat the KDX on the top end, but not by as much as you would think. The bottom end in this KDX seems every bit as strong if not stronger than the KTM. She loves to have the clutch slipped and find that right mid range power that just eats slow rocky hills. The KTM seemed to need more rpms for the same forward momentum. When I rebuilt my ktm, the power was way off when I took it riding to break it in, and remember being totally confused for a while. I remember taking out the powervalve and putting it back in a different way and that fixed the problem. It seems like the power valve can get installed incorrectly and still run fairly well, but it wasn't picking up the valve, (on not rasing all the way) to allow the bike to rev and make all the power on top like it should. I wonder if yours is stuck, or sticking, or just installed incorrectly like mine was. I would look at the Powervalve and eliminate that as an issue first, even before the clutch if it hasn't come in the mail yet..... My .02 cents
Did you confirm the power valve is moving freely and can fully open and close? What pipe and silencer are you running? FMF Gnarly can often really hurt the top end but usually offers low end gains. Spark arrestor muffler? Not carbon clogged is it?
Yes, we visually watched the powervalve opening and closing with the cover off when revving the bike. Tried the powervalve at every possible setting from one extreme to the other. 100% can feel the difference in when it opens, yet top end is still flat. It is an FMF Gnarly - I started googling that too and reading forums. The bike used to have more top end prior to the whole rebuild, which is why I'm lead to believe pipe isn't the core issue. Although header is slightly bend and cockeyed in the cylinder too, so I have considered that possibility. Would like to avoid buying another pipe unless I get to the point where I feel that's the likely issue. Silencer is a shorty that was repacked recently and core fully cleaned.
The FMF gnarly kills the top end. It will have excellent power in the very bottom and okay power in the mid. I had a similar issue one time and changed out my pipe and found that it had about 30 lb of sludge buildup in it. After the pipe was changed out it was like a brand new bike.
@@KincadePavich I had this literal same issue with my 2012 200 and didn't know any better until I compared it to my cousins 99 KDX 200 haha. For me the powervalve wasn't connected properly and was stuck fully closed. I got lucky though as the only thing I had to do was pop that little ball end of the arm into the horseshoe end of the gear and then set the PV to the "Langston setting" and it woke the bike up big time and had normal top end again. Sucks though cause yours is moving... but ya sounds like something with the PV if I were to guess.
@@KincadePavich check to see if the pipe is kinked at the cylinder or near the kick start exhaust mount my fathers bike had the same no top end power problem on his 15 200xcw we chased every thing and lead to that if needed I have an image of what to look for and a fly wheel weight is an awesome mod to exemplify the top end pull but they really help all the way through the power and adds more pull also he has a lectron 38 on it not a 36
Early in the video on your first day of riding the first thing I said to myself is man that clutch is slipping bad. Not sure if you’re running an auto clutch set up or not but that’s my thought
If memory serves me swapping out the KTM springs for Honda CR springs, albeit not a solution for a worn clutch, was the simple hack back in the day to get stiffer clutch springs for the 200.
If you’re concerned about claps slip, make sure to check the clutch springs as well as the clutch pack worn out clutch springs, could also give you an issue
I had an issue like this on a 125 a long time ago where it didnt pull and it sounded as if clutch was slipping but ended up just changing the gearing and it completely fixed the issue it was almost as if the bike had too much power for stock gearing. On a side note I have owned a 2008 200xc and an 06 200kdx and I gotta say that kdx is just something else it feels like riding a 300 just not as fast but the torque is phenomenal. If you see no real wear on clutch or in oil I'd recommend trying a sprocket swap its not a hard fix and could be the problem
Also remember those kdx 200s are cylinder reed induction with a kips system power valve. They tend to have way more grunt on the bottom end from my experience.
I have a 2013 200 with like a zillion hours on it, but it still sounds like your clutch is slipping. The issue on mine was the pressure plate was worn. Mine had a deep indent where it was clearly warn down. When they are new they are completely smooth. Replacing it completely fixed my clutch. Another thing with the top end power- the stock mapping on these bikes does hamper the top end heavily. Get a 125/150sx CDI (no newer than 2006 if yours is an 06), and it will wake it up completely. My bike is stock just with some jetting and a 150sx CDI and it rips. Feels like a 250 on the bottom but revs like a 125 on top. Just some food for thought.
Did you have to do anything else other than just swap the CDI, or is it simply plug and play? Thanks for the tip on the pressure plate. I will inspect it!
@@KincadePavich Nope! My bike is stock otherwise. As long is it’s from the same era, the cdis are complete plug and play. It’s one of the best things I’ve done to my 200. Way more power everywhere and super responsive. I’m really amazed that yours isn’t performing well especially with the full rebuild. It’s definitely got it in it though! The other thing is the gnarly pipe is a huge bottleneck on the 200 for top end power. I run the stock pipe on mine and it think it’s great everywhere. But for your application with hard enduro, I think the gnarly is a great choice. Awesome build man!!
If you have a fmf gnarly it kills the top end on the 200 well it did on mine I was disappointed when I put my shinny fmf pipe on to discover no top end like it did back to stock pipe she rips
Sounds like your powervalve isn't opening properly. If it's dirty or not hooked up properly you'll get that feeling where it will Rev out but there wont be any power. I had this happen on my 125 sx, same powervalve style, and the connection from bottom end to top wasn't being made.
Hey Kincade! I know quite a bit about the old 125/200 2 stroke's from KTM. There are a couple things that I can think of. First, the cdi or ignition coil giving weak spark, also check the resistance of the stator to check if that is good. KTM ignition coils are all shared between 1997-2023 from the small 125 2 stroke to the big 500's 4 strokes, so sourcing that should be ez. The CDI doesnt get made new anymore so getting your hands on one could be tricky if that is the culprit. That is just a thought, but I dont believe that this is what is wrong with it. I think you have a powervalve issues. It not opening fully, jamming or opening to late. There are multiple causes for this. 1. The timing plate gear thingy that actuates the 3 gears is bend (happens sometimes). 2. Buy new rollers for the powervalve. These wear out over time which can cause jamming. I am also sure the new parts have a thicker base causing the timing gear plate to not bend as often. 3. The 'hook' coming out of the bottom end going in to the top end is not nicely seated between the 'hoof' of the timing gear plate but rather to one side. Just take of the left cover of the powervalve assembly. Adjust it a bit where the top part of the notch of the timing gear plate is inline with the bottom part of the notch of the stationary part as a baseline and see if it opens up nicely when you give it some gas. If it doesnt check the list above first and then get a new powervalve assembly on the bottom end. The 4 balls of the centrifuge can run in over time making it not open up. Hope this helps. good luck! and reply if you have question or want to know more stuff about this engine or bike.
Hey Kincade have you Looked into Ignition timing? Port timing? adding or removing base gaskets will change your Port timing which an affect your top end power. Also check out the Unofficial Smart carb Tuning guide, Ive found this is the key for getting a smart carb dialed in.
Somehow it sounds like its struggling with lean mixture or too early opening power valve. I dont need to use that many revs on my old 1991 DT125R (my first bike coming 21years with it soon aswell) And yes I go wherever my friend does with his exc300 :D Its really a beast offroad, perfect 1st gear.
The frustration with trying to work out an issue like this sucks for sure. I'm confident that you'll get it figured out. That KTM should totally rip. Can't wait to see what the issue is. Good luck.
Sounds to me that you possibly need a thicker gasket on the slave cylinder. There is a "Y" dimension to measure, and then choose the correct thickness gasket. Similar to measuring for base gasket thickness. there are 3 different thickness gaskets available. Easy oversight! I always tell people. Get a factory manual and never skip any step! Good luck with the bike! Hope you heal quick!
Definitely! Worth a try still I suppose, quick and easy enough. I'd love to come ride your area someday! I grew up riding in the mad moose/loose moose area, I've been helping with the races up here for years. Haven't been west at all. Any advice to get hooked up with some buddies around there?
Hey bro. 200s are a fantastic bike. They do not by their nature have a massive amount of low end. Compared to the standard hard enduro 300 any way. You have made a lot of changes to that bike including a totally new and different carb system. I would put the stock carb on it and check out the forums for a good jetting spec for your area. I have never had much luck with the lecterns and or smart carbs. I know you have tried that but the stock carb with known good jetting is a solid start point. Once the carb is no longer a variable you can start your further diagnosis. My experience with these types of issues is it is a combination of things. I would also find the repair manual and test the stator for out put and replace the HY lead and plug cap. Cheap way to rule poor spark out. Also ensure the stator is aligned correctly. Good luck mate.
Sounds like you've really thoroughly gone through the bike to figure out what's going on. I want to add some semi-related experience here to keep in mind if you have issues still after the clutch is replaced. I have a Yamaha TW200 that my wife rides, and it ALWAYS felt down on power since the day we got it. I went through the whole thing, tested compression, rebuilt the carb, had it jetted as well as possible, etc. Long story short, it had weak spark. Both the battery AND CDI were functioning, but not properly. It would run amazing when it's cold out and then go to shit as it got warm. I'm wondering if weak spark could possibly be a contributor to your lack of power up top. My guess is it's not because the bike wouldn't rev so happily with weak spark, but I figured it can never hurt to add some info to the pot
My buddy suggested this as well - I have new spark plugs on the way to see if the plug itself is contributing to the issue. Did you end up replacing the entire CDI unit? Thanks for the suggestion, I'm all ears at this point for sure!
@@KincadePavich yes, in my case the farmer I bought the bike from had a battery 3 sizes too small in there lmao. I'm guessing that contributed to the CDI not wanting to work properly overtime. I actually replaced the coil, battery and CDI. But I did a lot of testing of each component to ensure it needed CDI and battery. You could test it with a multimeter to ensure it's not the coil
Interested to see the clutch pack effect. I have an 05 200 exc and it pulls like crazy up top. I am comparing it to my 300xc and YZ450, it’s not 300 fast, but it pulls hard. You’ll sort it out. Can’t wait to see.
Your power valve sounds like its not working. I have a 22 ktm250sx. Sounds like your going through the same problem i had. No power, good on mid to bottom. Long story short i switched to 3 different carbs and after a bunch of tuning decided to tear down the top end. It ended up being the power valve rod was not hooked up from the factory(i bought the bike new)
I've had a 2000 kdx200 in the last 6 months but i wasnt impressed buy the power so i bought a blown up 2006 ktm200exc (same as xcw) and it absoulity smokes the kdx in everything apart maybe from suspension after i rebuilt it. Same with my mates 1999 ktm200exc it also smokes the kdx
After having ridden KDX 200 for 25+ years, I cannot figure out why Kawasaki ever dropped them. What they give up in the handling they take care of with the forgiving motor. P.S. My advice, after porting many, many dirt bikes is send the jug to someone who could enduro port it and, perhaps, do some headwork.
on my 200 for tight technical trail riding i run a 14 front sprocket and a 52 rear i promise you wont be disappointed in the performance unless you are drag racing
when i had a similar bike to yours i had same issues , but it was a carb and tank issue...however it didnt starve of feul it just couldnt get it into the motor so anyway there was glass in the tank and somehow managed to get into the carb starving the bike of feul it made an huge diffrence in performance that thing opened my eyes after years of riding it thinking aww ktm sucks untill one day i tried to sell and the shop owner decided to go have or let someone have fun rides so when i decided to take it back noticed dirty carb dirty air filter and thats how i knew they were taking it on enduro rides so honestly was disghusted that they would do that ,but anyway try running it without an air filter and see if there is a diffrence because too much oil in the air filter also does that.
Love ya KP, but I'm not so sure the KTM would "spank" the Kawi...minor port work on the KDX can make it absolutely scream...that's why there's still such a loyal following for the green machine 👌
i would add a long enduro silencer to generate a bit more tourque! A flywheel maybe and a rekluse (because of no e start). This generation of 200s are not very tourqy....
what reed block set up are you running? The Boyesen RAD valve or the newer VForce block might be very much on your list to try out if you are running the basic reeds. The KTM 200 does sign off earlier as you cruise past the mid range but the pipe combo plays into this characteristic, I have a full FMF Gnarly and shorty muffler and mine does NOT sign off up top, it hauls from low to top...check if you have the two ignition curve cdi as well, you might find the map plugs on the harness joined which runs Map 2 which retards the ignition, make sure its in Map 1 for all the sting and zing.
Hey mate love the vids ! Just thought I would leave a comment suggesting looking a popular thread on forums for the 125/200 called “ the Langston setting” Super common if you google it should find some threads It’s todo with the power valve adjustment
A stock clutch is not just too weak for that bike. You’ve got something going on with that hydraulic master cylinder. It’s not moving the correct amount of fluid. Swapping a heavier duty clutch is a bandaid. Make sure it’s engaging all the way as it sits now. Or you’ll smoke that Hinson too.
When you pull it in I’d assume it’s disengaging more than normal and letting out is going far enough out to take all the tension off the springs. I’ve got 140 hours on my stock clutch. My 200 absolutely spanks my buddies kdx. With the aftermarket master cylinder. I think the problem lies with it being out of adjustment.
Try just cracking the bleeder screw on the slave cylinder. Tighten it again. And don’t squeeze the lever, so it doesn’t builder pressure up again. Then bump start it in first and see if the clutch feels more engaged.
Yeah, the KDX bikes were great bikes, but that 200 should be a bit more. I assume you played with the adjustment on the PV as in the adjuster on the motor? Also, as far as traction, check your spring rate in the rear. I found with my old 450 PDS that if the spring rate was to stiff or there was to much preload it would not get traction. Keep on with it though. Its been a great build and series so far. Looking forward to seeing what the deal is. What pipe are you running? I know a lot suggest the Gnarly, but it does sign off early. Could be the pipe. If you can find a fatty that might give you the top end you want.
My first two thought were either power valve or clutch. It’s hard to judge off video, but it definitely looks like the clutch is slipping. Sounds like she’s screaming and not going anywhere.Maybe a set of heavier springs if the Hinson feels the same. You may have built her too well abe the clutch can’t keep up! 😂
I am very anxious to hear about the hinson clutch pack. I’ve got a 300 that I believe has a worn clutch. I’ve been looking at a Hinson clutch pack but they are sold out everywhere
Great video, they say 80% rider 20% bike ?? I'm not sure about that one, I've had some bike that have made an easy ride hard !! Luv the higher go pro angle, we can see the tracks better
That bike isn’t designed to be run like you’re using it sadly. They are nice and torquey single track bikes that don’t really like to go past 1/2 throttle. Willing to bet $100 if you try to run your current setup at Silver Kings your clutch will cause a DNF. I did run into a buddies 200 that the PV was stuck in one position that effected bottom and top. Took me a minute to get them really working. Then he also had a CDI that once it got hot it produced a delayed and weaker spark that really effected power as well. I would reach out to someone like Shane Watts about tips for engine set ups on 200s. He was the man back in the day and SUPER helpful.
SMART CARBS SUCK!!! I fought and fought with one on my '18 300 Xc and finally gave up went back to the OEM carb which was better all around once you figure out the right jetting. Sure the same could be said for the SC but those are supposed to be easier and "smart" to take the complexity out of jetting. They are a joke IMO
SmartCarb has SO many benefits for hard enduro. The amount of fuel the bike loses through carb overflows at the constant angles a bike is subjected to in hard enduro is a big deal, and adds up over the course of a day riding hard enduro. We cover a lot of change in altitude here, and that's a huge factor too. I swapped carbs to confirm whether or not the issue was carb related, and it's not. Power up top was flat with a correctly jetted stock carb and the SmartCarb, so it's not the fault of carburetion.
@@KincadePavich Well I get what you're saying,,, I ride in UT and have to deal with severe altitude and temps swings all the time. That's why I tried both the Lectron and Smart Carbs but ended up happier on the Keihin. Issues like what you're having drove me to getting a TPI bike which I converted to TBI then to a split TPI/TBI setup which ended turning my '20 300 XC into an awesome machine. No more headaches from jets/needles and elevation/temp. Your issue certainly sounds like it has to be jetting related that or maybe your "Z" dimension is wrong on the PV or you need a thicker base gasket to move the power around.
Regret any trouble you may have had with the SmartCarb in your '18 300 XC. We trust that you contacted us at that time for assistance in confirming proper installation and tuning methodology, correct? This technology isn't a joke. Any top level hard enduro racer using a metering rod style carburetor is using a SmartCarb and that includes current point leader Cody Webb, Sunday USHE River Monster winner Quinn Wentzel, top Rieju Factory racer Alfredo Gomez, and more. And it's a new technology. Not sure when you had yours, but the product has improved immensely over the last few years both with incremental updates to the design and huge improvements in new fuel profiles (metering rods) and tuning baselines.
Kincade, I recently purchased a 2009 ktm 200xcw with 27 original hours. My main bike is a 2018 ktm 300 xcw. I bought this bike because I have always wanted a 200. Anyway, I also had Daniel Schmid set up my suspension and I love that. However what you describe on the top end I am experiencing as well. I put a Lectron billitron pro 38 on the 200 but I still feel like the bike is dead on the top end as you describe. I will be interested to see what you come up with and if I come up with any thing on my end I will let you know.
and... ...Thirdly - If it's now running very rich that will also stop it from revving out, does it sound kind of gargly and sputtery when on full throttle?
If you watched the entire video you would see that the issue wasn't resolved trying two other jet/needle carburetors. This isn't a carb issue. We trust also that you aren't comparing the SmartCarb to the other popular metering rod style carburetor known for its soft response.
@@outfitr9703 nice. But that wasn't our point. Of the leading metering rod carburetor options available to the market only one of them has had a long history of reviews and comments pointing out a deficiency in bottom end or off-idle response, and it isn't the SmartCarb. The fact that any top level pro hard enduro racer using a metering rod style carburetor is using the SmartCarb SC2 makes that clear. Nonetheless, that notion persists as recent as 9 hours ago by the original commenter we're speaking under. Glad to hear that your Billetron isn't soft in response. Downsizing the carb 4mm smaller than implied at least, advertised at worst, does tend to help with that. Lectron 38 HV, 38 H-Series, and 38 Billetron/Billetron Pros are all of them 34mm carburetors in fact. Feel free to measure it the next time you have it off the bike to see for yourself. The old adage holds true. Smaller carbs have better low end response. But only the SmartCarb, with it's patented variable throttle rate venturi, gives both little carb snap down low and full bore sizing mid to top without compromising top end peak flow/performance.
Yessir - removed the cover and revved the bike and watched the arm actuate. When we played with the powervalve adjustment we tested from one extreme to the other and everywhere in between. It made a substantial difference in the "hit", but still at a certain RPM the bike just falls flat on its face. Quits accelerating and just maintains. Not enough torque to get the front wheel off the ground at high RPMs.
I have recently bought a KTM 250sx with a knarly pipe and I do feel that same thing up top. I'm used to a two stroke ripping my arms off at high rpm.The knarly pipe does have amazing low end though, it's like BR(front tire off the ground)RRRRAAAaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhaaaa, no AAAAAP so I shift early before the torque falls off . People tell me to find a stock pipe and I'll like it better , someday I will.
What tyre pressure are you running? I'd be running 8 or 9 in that sort of terrain. Worth checking that the PV is actually opening, too... They're flat AF when it doesn't open.
@@KincadePavich I've never ridden on mousses of any kind, but you're not getting a lot of ballooning of the contact patch from what I saw on the video, are you able to drop a ball with your system? Best of luck with the flat power issue, certainly a difficult one if it's not carb or PV!
Is it normal for a ktm 200 to change how it feels after not riding for a while just feels like it has less power. Like it feels strong then a day later it bogs down and feels weak. i need help please
I love your optimism and positivity. But I think you're gonna struggle on that 200 at the race. The pros ride 300's for a reason. It seems you like a challenge. Anyway, I'm sure that KDX has a heavy flywheel and is geared down. It wouldn't help a flat top end though. Hmm. Have you checked your compression?
Hello from (old) England!
I have a 2009 KTM 200 EXC (same as an XC-W).
Two things I can suggest, both are common known issues from back in the day when these bikes were new, I found them from researching all the old forums etc...
...Firstly - In standard trim these bikes will never rev out like most 2 strokes, kind of feels like they have a rev limiter which in effect they do, the standard CDI is programmed to shut the engine down at quite a low engine speed compared to most 2 strokes. I think KTM did this on the grounds of safety as it's essentially a 125 engine with a stroker crank and bigger cylinder/piston, the dynamic forces of these 2 things will likely stretch the engine close to it's limits at high RPM's. SOLUTION - it was common back in the day to fit a CDI off of a 125sx, I've bought one but not tested it yet as I want to get my fresh motor nicely run in before potentially straining it with higher RPM's. This issue is probably made worse by the wide ratio gearbox, it highlights the narrow working RPM range of the engine.
...Secondly - Cylinder head squish, these engines come with a very big/conservative squish sometimes up to 1.8mm! Commonly considered safe to reduce to 1mm while not increasing the overall compression ratio too much. These heads can be machined but it's very tricky due to the stepped design. VHM do a head which also adds cooling benefits but they are expensive. I've not done this but I may in the future.
I hope this helps.
Gareth.
I did a 200 comparison with the KTM, KDX and a GasGas when I worked for Dirt Rider Magazine. Low rpm response and traction from the KDX but the KTM had roughly 10 more ponies on top. I never broke either one so never had them apart, but off-idle roll-on is the only plate the KDX should have any edge on yhe KTM.
I had 2002 KTM 200 exc that I bought blown up. I bought a new cylinder and powervalve assembly off ebay that said it fit my year. It did fit my year bike but the powervalve assembly was a different size than the one that came off my bike. The two side barrels for the powervalve were a different diameter than what my bike came with. The bike ran with the ebay cylinder and powervalve assembly but all of the power was bottom end, there was almost nothing up top. I managed to find another cylinder that had powervalve castings that were the same size as the one that came off my bike, once I swapped in that new cylinder with the original powervalve assembly the bike woke up. Same bottom end lug as before but now it ripped up top. I don't know if I bought a 125 cylinder off ebay that someone listed as a 200 (they were the same size bore in those years), but I do know that different cylinders can fit on the bike and run, but not be the correct cylinder/powervalve for the bike. Perhaps that is the case here, but if the bike ran great before the rebuild then most likely not. Looking at your cylinder from a previous video it's hard to tell if the powervalve barrels are the right size, but I have a couple old cylinders/powervalves that I could measure to compare to yours.
It sounds like a power valve issue to me as well
@@DamnGoodDawg This is what im thinking as well. Same experience I had when I rebuilt my 200.
It blows my mind that you dont have more subs. You provide quality content and honnest information. Love your stuff!
The high camera angle was sooo much better, that is what riding actually feels and looks like. Low camera videos make me dizzy
Your tire looks too much "inflated". You have too little contact between the tire and the dirt. Are you running mousses? Use mousses and an enduro specific tire (yours does not look like one, but I may be wrong...). Also try to tune your suspension. Hard enduro specific settings suck for everything else, but of course are great for that kinda stuff. Cheers from Italy!
Ignition on a two stroke is either setup for bottom end or top end power, the stock cdi has a curve to help out but your base timing is very sensitive. A new case might have a different mark than the old one, Id call a ktm tech and see if that case/year and your stator/year are the same marks and if not youll have to time it correctly with a degree wheel and note the new mesurement for your bike.
Hey, loving the progress on this bike!
I had a 2006 250 exc. First ride I thought it felt a bit flat on the top from what I was expecting. Slipping clutch but it took me a while to notice, not sure why but cars and 4 stroke road bikes I know the first time it slips.
Put a fresh clutch pack in and it was no good.
Tried to bleed the clutch and no matter how I tried I couldn't get fresh fluid in it. I tried vacuum bleeding from the slave cylinder, pressure feeding from slave, pumping with the lever. The fluid wouldn't move.
I rebuilt the master cylinder and it was perfect. I don't think I needed the clutch pack in all honesty
Clutch felt fine before the m/c rebuild
Your little road test, I'd say you have clutch slip there, it seemed to rip through the gears but didn't really add as much speed as it should have been.
Good luck with it!
Your simplest and easiest solution for Low end Torq is to install a FWW and adjust the PV toward the upper mark. And you can tune your igniton curve softer.
Fww ?? Flywheel ?? I thought flywheels take power away in exchange for more control like they smooth the revs out by making less torq and power all round lol I don't think il ever put a flywheel on my bike
I thought he said a flywheel weight wouldn't work because of the hydro clutch and other stuff he did?
Check your gearing vs stock for your year model. Ktm 200’s (at least the sx which im familiar with) have a really low primary gear ratio necessitating a taller than normal final gear set. The exhaust on these bikes is a big tuning tool; the gnarly and shorty is going to be all low-mid power. Fatty would be best for all around power if you can find one though you will give up ground clearance; powercore will get you smoother broader power as well. Someone mentioned sx cdi, that would also be a good mod. Squish correction if not done yet would be good to do. Exhaust and gearing will have a huge effect on power concentration
I had a 2013 XC-W and I'd say to have a look at the power valve. When I first got the bike, it felt like a 125 but with more bottom end. I then had a play around with the power valve to give me more mid and low torque (power valve opens later in RPMs) but I felt like there way absolutely no top end left. Did a drag race with my 125SX and while the 200 pulled away initially, it wasn't gaining once both bikes got up into the RPMs.
I ride a 200 exc irl in the mountains
But i dont ever have the need to rev it out that much to make it up gnarly sections?? We have stock gearing for a 05 KTM 200 exc
Edit: also dont know if you saw but the 200 has a extremely fine tuneable powerband would be worth showing the viewers how that systems work!!!
Hey Kincade, since the first video of you riding the 200 I was thinking right away that this bike's clutch is slipping. Curious to see if my keyboard mechanical skills are on point LOL.
Love the Bike and Channel BTW
Check the power valve actuator, had the same problem with one of my 200s and the actuator wasn’t lined up, It won’t cost anything to pull your jug up a half inch to check it. My bike would run great until you tried getting on it hard then it wouldn’t rev out, it spent weeks tuning the carb and messing with power valve settings.
200 loyalist here! Put a torqdrive clutch in that thing and send the Hinson stuff back. I did it to mine and went from 11 steel/friction plates to 21. Well worth the money.
While not super relevant to help you troubleshoot, I will recommend a high compression head (or just insert). I just put an RK Tek head on my 300 and I can legitimately say that it has been the best bolt on mod I have done to any powersports machine ever. The bottom to mid TQ and better fuel consumption is very noticeable and I would recommend for any two stroke.
Hi from Wales. I ride a KTM 125 exc 6 days 2016 for extreme enduro. I have been doing it for a couple of years now and won in the youth class last year. I have two suggestions for you which you could try. One is using one thin bass gasket to give the bike more compression because in one of your previous episodes you put two bass gaskets in the engine. Two is buy a long end exhaust to give the bike more bottom end and it will be more of a smooth power delivery which will benefit you so much. I am not saying it could be clutch slip but you could give this a go and see if it helps you.
All the best with you racing in sliver kings hard enduro. And I hope you find the problem with the bike
If you still have the stock carb , take the smart carb off , and try it. I tried the smart carb on two different bikes , I ride 5000 to 10000 feet , and I never could get it to run right , and yes I read there tuning manual front to back and sideways , and also had multiple conversations with them at smart carb. For me the properly jetted Kehin was money. I change jets twice a year for temp changes. Takes like 10 mins. Not trying to bash the smart carb , because it works for some people, but you might be surprised if you experiment between the two.
Sorry didn’t get to the end of the video. Looks like you tried the carb swap 👍
Check that power valve out, make sure it’s doing power valve things and doing them correctly. And try lower pressure for tech terrain or softer compound tire
Could be the clutch slipping like you said. I have a 200 2013 ktm and it’s been riddled with issues such as no power from mid to top end. After properly jetting you could feel the clutch slipping and the plates not properly being disengaged. In my case the plates haves been redone but it’s the master cylinder on the clutch that’s the issue, I’m currently in the process of getting a rebuild kit for it so hopefully it fixes.
Hope this helps!
I had a 2003 KDX 220 that was a beast! I sold that bike to get a 2016 200 xcw. I regret it every time I ride. The handling on the KTM and the brakes are night and day difference, but the power on the KDX was way better. Tons of low end and screamed on top. It was tuned, of course, but an amazing motor. I’m somewhat underwhelmed by the KTM. 😥😥
About the E-Start.
I have an 525 2003 Exc
You can get all the parts for the e-start of amazon for about 250€ idk about dollar
It is much cheaper and works the same
I ride a later model ktm 200 and my dad used to ride multiple kdx 200s back in the 90s and he reckons that the ktm is stronger down low while the kawasaki had more top end power. He reckons that the ktm 200s have very smooth power while the kdx was faster but also harder to ride in sketchy situations. It should have a wicked bottom-mid range power but I think its normal for the power to fall off where a 125 would still be pulling.
Raced a 200 in the woods for a long time, always had to run the 250sx clutch springs to keep from slipping the clutch under power.
Ive Been tuning for years and other than fuel upper rpm is CDI timing or power valves
Hate to say, but it sounds lean still. The dung dung sound on decel is what my old yz250x sounded like when the metering rod was adjusted to lean or it started getting really hot. (Lectron H series) It was really bad in race once, I had to mash the kill switch and whack the throttle to cool the cylinder.
Agreed on spanking the KDX200. The KDX200 is a great bike for its intended purpose but he KTM 200 motor is in a class by itself. Honestly, it's such a wicked little motor. It can be tuned to match most any occasion.
That's exactly how my brotherz 08 200xcw is mid and low end is great but not much up top! And jetting is perfect, I believe it to be a weighted flywheel, or it could need some porting and higher compression.
This era of KTMS (I owned a 125 and 200) had stators go bad. The symptom is often no HP on the top end. It will start fine, run down low fine but deliver no hit on the top. Make sure the PV is free but it most likely a stator issue.
Make sure the power curve plug is undone it’s kinda like now adays rain map or sun map on the betas if it’s plugged in tho it’s more mellow flat feeling. Had an 07 xc 200 new and noticed the plug not together and when referring to manual found out that’s what it was. Under the tank area
I know your geting alot of random advise on this issue. but hear me out.....
Ive owned an 02 MXC 200 which I've raced twice in the Idaho City 100.
I also currently own a 02 KDX 200 which I'm building to race the Idaho City 100 this year. (and owned multiple ktm 300s from multiple years)
Yes the KTM should beat the KDX on the top end, but not by as much as you would think. The bottom end in this KDX seems every bit as strong if not stronger than the KTM. She loves to have the clutch slipped and find that right mid range power that just eats slow rocky hills. The KTM seemed to need more rpms for the same forward momentum.
When I rebuilt my ktm, the power was way off when I took it riding to break it in, and remember being totally confused for a while. I remember taking out the powervalve and putting it back in a different way and that fixed the problem. It seems like the power valve can get installed incorrectly and still run fairly well, but it wasn't picking up the valve, (on not rasing all the way) to allow the bike to rev and make all the power on top like it should. I wonder if yours is stuck, or sticking, or just installed incorrectly like mine was. I would look at the Powervalve and eliminate that as an issue first, even before the clutch if it hasn't come in the mail yet.....
My .02 cents
Did you confirm the power valve is moving freely and can fully open and close? What pipe and silencer are you running? FMF Gnarly can often really hurt the top end but usually offers low end gains. Spark arrestor muffler? Not carbon clogged is it?
Yes, we visually watched the powervalve opening and closing with the cover off when revving the bike. Tried the powervalve at every possible setting from one extreme to the other. 100% can feel the difference in when it opens, yet top end is still flat. It is an FMF Gnarly - I started googling that too and reading forums. The bike used to have more top end prior to the whole rebuild, which is why I'm lead to believe pipe isn't the core issue. Although header is slightly bend and cockeyed in the cylinder too, so I have considered that possibility. Would like to avoid buying another pipe unless I get to the point where I feel that's the likely issue. Silencer is a shorty that was repacked recently and core fully cleaned.
The FMF gnarly kills the top end. It will have excellent power in the very bottom and okay power in the mid. I had a similar issue one time and changed out my pipe and found that it had about 30 lb of sludge buildup in it. After the pipe was changed out it was like a brand new bike.
@@KincadePavich I had this literal same issue with my 2012 200 and didn't know any better until I compared it to my cousins 99 KDX 200 haha. For me the powervalve wasn't connected properly and was stuck fully closed. I got lucky though as the only thing I had to do was pop that little ball end of the arm into the horseshoe end of the gear and then set the PV to the "Langston setting" and it woke the bike up big time and had normal top end again. Sucks though cause yours is moving... but ya sounds like something with the PV if I were to guess.
@@KincadePavich check to see if the pipe is kinked at the cylinder or near the kick start exhaust mount my fathers bike had the same no top end power problem on his 15 200xcw we chased every thing and lead to that if needed I have an image of what to look for and a fly wheel weight is an awesome mod to exemplify the top end pull but they really help all the way through the power and adds more pull also he has a lectron 38 on it not a 36
Early in the video on your first day of riding the first thing I said to myself is man that clutch is slipping bad. Not sure if you’re running an auto clutch set up or not but that’s my thought
If memory serves me swapping out the KTM springs for Honda CR springs, albeit not a solution for a worn clutch, was the simple hack back in the day to get stiffer clutch springs for the 200.
If you’re concerned about claps slip, make sure to check the clutch springs as well as the clutch pack worn out clutch springs, could also give you an issue
I had an issue like this on a 125 a long time ago where it didnt pull and it sounded as if clutch was slipping but ended up just changing the gearing and it completely fixed the issue it was almost as if the bike had too much power for stock gearing. On a side note I have owned a 2008 200xc and an 06 200kdx and I gotta say that kdx is just something else it feels like riding a 300 just not as fast but the torque is phenomenal. If you see no real wear on clutch or in oil I'd recommend trying a sprocket swap its not a hard fix and could be the problem
Also remember those kdx 200s are cylinder reed induction with a kips system power valve. They tend to have way more grunt on the bottom end from my experience.
KDX mentioned let’s goooo 🗣️💯
Riding a 94 KDX that I haven’t gotten to take out nearly enough lol. The E and H series rule
Probably gonna pick one up myself lol. He might just have to sell the ktm and go kdx lol
I have a 2013 200 with like a zillion hours on it, but it still sounds like your clutch is slipping. The issue on mine was the pressure plate was worn. Mine had a deep indent where it was clearly warn down. When they are new they are completely smooth. Replacing it completely fixed my clutch. Another thing with the top end power- the stock mapping on these bikes does hamper the top end heavily. Get a 125/150sx CDI (no newer than 2006 if yours is an 06), and it will wake it up completely. My bike is stock just with some jetting and a 150sx CDI and it rips. Feels like a 250 on the bottom but revs like a 125 on top. Just some food for thought.
Did you have to do anything else other than just swap the CDI, or is it simply plug and play? Thanks for the tip on the pressure plate. I will inspect it!
@@KincadePavich Nope! My bike is stock otherwise. As long is it’s from the same era, the cdis are complete plug and play. It’s one of the best things I’ve done to my 200. Way more power everywhere and super responsive. I’m really amazed that yours isn’t performing well especially with the full rebuild. It’s definitely got it in it though! The other thing is the gnarly pipe is a huge bottleneck on the 200 for top end power. I run the stock pipe on mine and it think it’s great everywhere. But for your application with hard enduro, I think the gnarly is a great choice. Awesome build man!!
If you have a fmf gnarly it kills the top end on the 200 well it did on mine I was disappointed when I put my shinny fmf pipe on to discover no top end like it did back to stock pipe she rips
Sounds like your powervalve isn't opening properly. If it's dirty or not hooked up properly you'll get that feeling where it will Rev out but there wont be any power. I had this happen on my 125 sx, same powervalve style, and the connection from bottom end to top wasn't being made.
Hey Kincade! I know quite a bit about the old 125/200 2 stroke's from KTM. There are a couple things that I can think of. First, the cdi or ignition coil giving weak spark, also check the resistance of the stator to check if that is good. KTM ignition coils are all shared between 1997-2023 from the small 125 2 stroke to the big 500's 4 strokes, so sourcing that should be ez. The CDI doesnt get made new anymore so getting your hands on one could be tricky if that is the culprit. That is just a thought, but I dont believe that this is what is wrong with it. I think you have a powervalve issues. It not opening fully, jamming or opening to late. There are multiple causes for this. 1. The timing plate gear thingy that actuates the 3 gears is bend (happens sometimes). 2. Buy new rollers for the powervalve. These wear out over time which can cause jamming. I am also sure the new parts have a thicker base causing the timing gear plate to not bend as often. 3. The 'hook' coming out of the bottom end going in to the top end is not nicely seated between the 'hoof' of the timing gear plate but rather to one side. Just take of the left cover of the powervalve assembly. Adjust it a bit where the top part of the notch of the timing gear plate is inline with the bottom part of the notch of the stationary part as a baseline and see if it opens up nicely when you give it some gas. If it doesnt check the list above first and then get a new powervalve assembly on the bottom end. The 4 balls of the centrifuge can run in over time making it not open up. Hope this helps. good luck! and reply if you have question or want to know more stuff about this engine or bike.
note tho that the 200 'only' has 40 horsepower so it isnt crazy fast on the top end. Just has a nice bottom end
i feel you on the “to expensive” part because i’m building a 2003 ktm mxc200 right now
Hey Kincade have you Looked into Ignition timing? Port timing? adding or removing base gaskets will change your Port timing which an affect your top end power. Also check out the Unofficial Smart carb Tuning guide, Ive found this is the key for getting a smart carb dialed in.
Somehow it sounds like its struggling with lean mixture or too early opening power valve. I dont need to use that many revs on my old 1991 DT125R (my first bike coming 21years with it soon aswell)
And yes I go wherever my friend does with his exc300 :D Its really a beast offroad, perfect 1st gear.
The frustration with trying to work out an issue like this sucks for sure. I'm confident that you'll get it figured out. That KTM should totally rip. Can't wait to see what the issue is. Good luck.
Sounds to me that you possibly need a thicker gasket on the slave cylinder. There is a "Y" dimension to measure, and then choose the correct thickness gasket. Similar to measuring for base gasket thickness. there are 3 different thickness gaskets available. Easy oversight! I always tell people. Get a factory manual and never skip any step! Good luck with the bike! Hope you heal quick!
This has been measured! I am debating adding another gasket anyway and testing. Would rather the clutch not fully disengage than slip.
Definitely! Worth a try still I suppose, quick and easy enough. I'd love to come ride your area someday! I grew up riding in the mad moose/loose moose area, I've been helping with the races up here for years. Haven't been west at all. Any advice to get hooked up with some buddies around there?
Hey bro. 200s are a fantastic bike. They do not by their nature have a massive amount of low end. Compared to the standard hard enduro 300 any way.
You have made a lot of changes to that bike including a totally new and different carb system. I would put the stock carb on it and check out the forums for a good jetting spec for your area. I have never had much luck with the lecterns and or smart carbs.
I know you have tried that but the stock carb with known good jetting is a solid start point.
Once the carb is no longer a variable you can start your further diagnosis. My experience with these types of issues is it is a combination of things.
I would also find the repair manual and test the stator for out put and replace the HY lead and plug cap. Cheap way to rule poor spark out.
Also ensure the stator is aligned correctly.
Good luck mate.
High tension lead. Not HY lead. Typo sorry.
Sounds like you've really thoroughly gone through the bike to figure out what's going on. I want to add some semi-related experience here to keep in mind if you have issues still after the clutch is replaced. I have a Yamaha TW200 that my wife rides, and it ALWAYS felt down on power since the day we got it. I went through the whole thing, tested compression, rebuilt the carb, had it jetted as well as possible, etc. Long story short, it had weak spark. Both the battery AND CDI were functioning, but not properly. It would run amazing when it's cold out and then go to shit as it got warm. I'm wondering if weak spark could possibly be a contributor to your lack of power up top. My guess is it's not because the bike wouldn't rev so happily with weak spark, but I figured it can never hurt to add some info to the pot
My buddy suggested this as well - I have new spark plugs on the way to see if the plug itself is contributing to the issue. Did you end up replacing the entire CDI unit? Thanks for the suggestion, I'm all ears at this point for sure!
@@KincadePavich yes, in my case the farmer I bought the bike from had a battery 3 sizes too small in there lmao. I'm guessing that contributed to the CDI not wanting to work properly overtime. I actually replaced the coil, battery and CDI. But I did a lot of testing of each component to ensure it needed CDI and battery. You could test it with a multimeter to ensure it's not the coil
Look into weather or not you can use a ktm 150 cdi box . That’s a very popular upgrade for the beta 200s
Interested to see the clutch pack effect. I have an 05 200 exc and it pulls like crazy up top.
I am comparing it to my 300xc and YZ450, it’s not 300 fast, but it pulls hard. You’ll sort it out. Can’t wait to see.
Your power valve sounds like its not working. I have a 22 ktm250sx. Sounds like your going through the same problem i had. No power, good on mid to bottom. Long story short i switched to 3 different carbs and after a bunch of tuning decided to tear down the top end. It ended up being the power valve rod was not hooked up from the factory(i bought the bike new)
I've had a 2000 kdx200 in the last 6 months but i wasnt impressed buy the power so i bought a blown up 2006 ktm200exc (same as xcw) and it absoulity smokes the kdx in everything apart maybe from suspension after i rebuilt it. Same with my mates 1999 ktm200exc it also smokes the kdx
After having ridden KDX 200 for 25+ years, I cannot figure out why Kawasaki ever dropped them. What they give up in the handling they take care of with the forgiving motor. P.S. My advice, after porting many, many dirt bikes is send the jug to someone who could enduro port it and, perhaps, do some headwork.
I feel you with the expense of the bike im trying to get a yz400 going and its been rough
If the clutch does not fix the issue I would keep and open mind and look at the ignition system to see if everything is in spec
on my 200 for tight technical trail riding i run a 14 front sprocket and a 52 rear i promise you wont be disappointed in the performance unless you are drag racing
The extra weight on the flywheel will help your engine with low rpm so it won’t stal as easily. But it will take away power
when i had a similar bike to yours i had same issues , but it was a carb and tank issue...however it didnt starve of feul it just couldnt get it into the motor so anyway there was glass in the tank and somehow managed to get into the carb starving the bike of feul it made an huge diffrence in performance that thing opened my eyes after years of riding it thinking aww ktm sucks untill one day i tried to sell and the shop owner decided to go have or let someone have fun rides so when i decided to take it back noticed dirty carb dirty air filter and thats how i knew they were taking it on enduro rides so honestly was disghusted that they would do that ,but anyway try running it without an air filter and see if there is a diffrence because too much oil in the air filter also does that.
Love ya KP, but I'm not so sure the KTM would "spank" the Kawi...minor port work on the KDX can make it absolutely scream...that's why there's still such a loyal following for the green machine 👌
i would add a long enduro silencer to generate a bit more tourque! A flywheel maybe and a rekluse (because of no e start). This generation of 200s are not very tourqy....
what reed block set up are you running? The Boyesen RAD valve or the newer VForce block might be very much on your list to try out if you are running the basic reeds. The KTM 200 does sign off earlier as you cruise past the mid range but the pipe combo plays into this characteristic, I have a full FMF Gnarly and shorty muffler and mine does NOT sign off up top, it hauls from low to top...check if you have the two ignition curve cdi as well, you might find the map plugs on the harness joined which runs Map 2 which retards the ignition, make sure its in Map 1 for all the sting and zing.
Hey mate love the vids !
Just thought I would leave a comment suggesting looking a popular thread on forums for the 125/200 called “ the Langston setting”
Super common if you google it should find some threads
It’s todo with the power valve adjustment
How do you have adjust the power valve?
From all the way in how many turns out
Thanks!!
A stock clutch is not just too weak for that bike. You’ve got something going on with that hydraulic master cylinder. It’s not moving the correct amount of fluid. Swapping a heavier duty clutch is a bandaid. Make sure it’s engaging all the way as it sits now. Or you’ll smoke that Hinson too.
If it wasn’t moving enough wouldn’t the clutch just not disengage fully as opposed to slipping?
When you pull it in I’d assume it’s disengaging more than normal and letting out is going far enough out to take all the tension off the springs. I’ve got 140 hours on my stock clutch. My 200 absolutely spanks my buddies kdx. With the aftermarket master cylinder. I think the problem lies with it being out of adjustment.
Try just cracking the bleeder screw on the slave cylinder. Tighten it again. And don’t squeeze the lever, so it doesn’t builder pressure up again. Then bump start it in first and see if the clutch feels more engaged.
PV, STATOR, CLUTCH MASTER CYLINDER, CLUTCH SPRINGS. good luck!
Yeah, the KDX bikes were great bikes, but that 200 should be a bit more. I assume you played with the adjustment on the PV as in the adjuster on the motor? Also, as far as traction, check your spring rate in the rear. I found with my old 450 PDS that if the spring rate was to stiff or there was to much preload it would not get traction. Keep on with it though. Its been a great build and series so far. Looking forward to seeing what the deal is. What pipe are you running? I know a lot suggest the Gnarly, but it does sign off early. Could be the pipe. If you can find a fatty that might give you the top end you want.
Make sure you’ve got good ground grind back all coating and have a solid contact
Unrelated to the issue but grab an Enduro Engineering Clutch Cylinder guard, especially for HE could save your day
My first two thought were either power valve or clutch. It’s hard to judge off video, but it definitely looks like the clutch is slipping. Sounds like she’s screaming and not going anywhere.Maybe a set of heavier springs if the Hinson feels the same. You may have built her too well abe the clutch can’t keep up! 😂
I am very anxious to hear about the hinson clutch pack. I’ve got a 300 that I believe has a worn clutch. I’ve been looking at a Hinson clutch pack but they are sold out everywhere
Great video, they say 80% rider 20% bike ?? I'm not sure about that one, I've had some bike that have made an easy ride hard !! Luv the higher go pro angle, we can see the tracks better
Can you to a how to on the trans gears gotta do mine and need to learn
i cant wait for the silver king video, f*ckin love ur content man, keep it up!
That bike isn’t designed to be run like you’re using it sadly. They are nice and torquey single track bikes that don’t really like to go past 1/2 throttle.
Willing to bet $100 if you try to run your current setup at Silver Kings your clutch will cause a DNF.
I did run into a buddies 200 that the PV was stuck in one position that effected bottom and top. Took me a minute to get them really working. Then he also had a CDI that once it got hot it produced a delayed and weaker spark that really effected power as well.
I would reach out to someone like Shane Watts about tips for engine set ups on 200s. He was the man back in the day and SUPER helpful.
Maybe the smart carb… try it with a keihn carb also 36 vs 38 mm carb maybe?
SMART CARBS SUCK!!! I fought and fought with one on my '18 300 Xc and finally gave up went back to the OEM carb which was better all around once you figure out the right jetting. Sure the same could be said for the SC but those are supposed to be easier and "smart" to take the complexity out of jetting. They are a joke IMO
SmartCarb has SO many benefits for hard enduro. The amount of fuel the bike loses through carb overflows at the constant angles a bike is subjected to in hard enduro is a big deal, and adds up over the course of a day riding hard enduro. We cover a lot of change in altitude here, and that's a huge factor too. I swapped carbs to confirm whether or not the issue was carb related, and it's not. Power up top was flat with a correctly jetted stock carb and the SmartCarb, so it's not the fault of carburetion.
@@KincadePavich Well I get what you're saying,,, I ride in UT and have to deal with severe altitude and temps swings all the time. That's why I tried both the Lectron and Smart Carbs but ended up happier on the Keihin.
Issues like what you're having drove me to getting a TPI bike which I converted to TBI then to a split TPI/TBI setup which ended turning my '20 300 XC into an awesome machine. No more headaches from jets/needles and elevation/temp.
Your issue certainly sounds like it has to be jetting related that or maybe your "Z" dimension is wrong on the PV or you need a thicker base gasket to move the power around.
Regret any trouble you may have had with the SmartCarb in your '18 300 XC. We trust that you contacted us at that time for assistance in confirming proper installation and tuning methodology, correct?
This technology isn't a joke. Any top level hard enduro racer using a metering rod style carburetor is using a SmartCarb and that includes current point leader Cody Webb, Sunday USHE River Monster winner Quinn Wentzel, top Rieju Factory racer Alfredo Gomez, and more. And it's a new technology. Not sure when you had yours, but the product has improved immensely over the last few years both with incremental updates to the design and huge improvements in new fuel profiles (metering rods) and tuning baselines.
Shoulda did another big bore build for a hard Enduro bike either a big bore kit for a 250 or just go all out and get a 500
The higher camera angle on the KDX looks better.
Love my KDX, really wondering what his jetting is like and at which elevation?
Kincade, I recently purchased a 2009 ktm 200xcw with 27 original hours. My main bike is a 2018 ktm 300 xcw. I bought this bike because I have always wanted a 200. Anyway, I also had Daniel Schmid set up my suspension and I love that. However what you describe on the top end I am experiencing as well. I put a Lectron billitron pro 38 on the 200 but I still feel like the bike is dead on the top end as you describe. I will be interested to see what you come up with and if I come up with any thing on my end I will let you know.
I love the high GoPro angle
and...
...Thirdly - If it's now running very rich that will also stop it from revving out, does it sound kind of gargly and sputtery when on full throttle?
The KX power valve seems to pull in a lot quicker than the KTM , reeds ?
Love ur vids dude I hope u get to do what ever you want in life❤️🔥
I have no idea what the problem is but I’ll use your link to place my next RMATV order to help you buy stuff to figure it out.
Metering rod carbs feel soft to some people. That might be why the kdx felt so good.
If you watched the entire video you would see that the issue wasn't resolved trying two other jet/needle carburetors. This isn't a carb issue. We trust also that you aren't comparing the SmartCarb to the other popular metering rod style carburetor known for its soft response.
@@SmartCarbFuelSystems I have a Billetron on my 300 and believe me it has anything but a "soft response"
@@outfitr9703 nice. But that wasn't our point. Of the leading metering rod carburetor options available to the market only one of them has had a long history of reviews and comments pointing out a deficiency in bottom end or off-idle response, and it isn't the SmartCarb. The fact that any top level pro hard enduro racer using a metering rod style carburetor is using the SmartCarb SC2 makes that clear. Nonetheless, that notion persists as recent as 9 hours ago by the original commenter we're speaking under. Glad to hear that your Billetron isn't soft in response. Downsizing the carb 4mm smaller than implied at least, advertised at worst, does tend to help with that. Lectron 38 HV, 38 H-Series, and 38 Billetron/Billetron Pros are all of them 34mm carburetors in fact. Feel free to measure it the next time you have it off the bike to see for yourself. The old adage holds true. Smaller carbs have better low end response. But only the SmartCarb, with it's patented variable throttle rate venturi, gives both little carb snap down low and full bore sizing mid to top without compromising top end peak flow/performance.
The moment you starting ripping it i thought to myself it looks/sounds like the clutch is slipping. My money is on the clutch
not sure but if i remember correctly 125's and 200's have different clutch springs. maybe someone has swapped 125 springs in there so the clutch slips
Try to remove fan from radiator, maybe voltage is low
Can you remove a power valve cover to make sure it’s opening at higher rpm?
Yessir - removed the cover and revved the bike and watched the arm actuate. When we played with the powervalve adjustment we tested from one extreme to the other and everywhere in between. It made a substantial difference in the "hit", but still at a certain RPM the bike just falls flat on its face. Quits accelerating and just maintains. Not enough torque to get the front wheel off the ground at high RPMs.
That very much sounds like the characteristics of the gnarly pipe.
I have recently bought a KTM 250sx with a knarly pipe and I do feel that same thing up top. I'm used to a two stroke ripping my arms off at high rpm.The knarly pipe does have amazing low end though, it's like BR(front tire off the ground)RRRRAAAaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhaaaa, no AAAAAP so I shift early before the torque falls off . People tell me to find a stock pipe and I'll like it better , someday I will.
A slipping clutch behaves just like no traction. Rpm increase and no forward momentum that coincides. Check the plates.
What tyre pressure are you running? I'd be running 8 or 9 in that sort of terrain.
Worth checking that the PV is actually opening, too... They're flat AF when it doesn't open.
Mousse balls. Did indeed verify the PV is opening.
@@KincadePavich I've never ridden on mousses of any kind, but you're not getting a lot of ballooning of the contact patch from what I saw on the video, are you able to drop a ball with your system?
Best of luck with the flat power issue, certainly a difficult one if it's not carb or PV!
I assume your going to put a new set of clutch springs in with the new clutch pack. Might as well.
Is the electric start even an option,? If so, thst would be awesome an awesome video.
When they arent broken in fullt 2 strokes always feel alot slower im not entirely sure why just my experience thought id give you my 2 cents
Is it normal for a ktm 200 to change how it feels after not riding for a while just feels like it has less power. Like it feels strong then a day later it bogs down and feels weak. i need help please
Could be a spark issue I'd try a new plug and a new battery.
Dude you need to get a better GoPro angle. Use superview with either chin or chest mount.
I love your optimism and positivity. But I think you're gonna struggle on that 200 at the race. The pros ride 300's for a reason. It seems you like a challenge. Anyway, I'm sure that KDX has a heavy flywheel and is geared down. It wouldn't help a flat top end though. Hmm. Have you checked your compression?
I was like oh i thought he recently blew it up then saw that it only got posted 13 mins ago
😂😂
Sounds like powervalve issue clean and rebuild it
play around with sprockets a bit that might help.