Interesting! Do you think that it's a discrepancy between the two rulebooks or an additional clarification in the USAV book? The clip @1:05 in this video is from an international match and she definitely doubles. My guess is that since it is already written that a double contact on the first ball is allowed (Rule 9.2.2.2) the FIVB didn't feel the need to include it again when talking about hard driven attacks.
@@daneleblanc4636 I would like an official clarification of this case too. I think that if you make an extended overhand contact (on a hard driven ball), a double can still be called. After all, rule 9.2.2.2 does not allow such contacts.
@@vinkhe A double can still be called if there is not "one continuous motion." However, I have never seen a defender get called for a double on a hard driven ball. If you find a case where this happens, please share!
@@vinkhe A double can be called when defending an attack if there are two separate motions in playing the ball, which is the case for attacks that are "hard driven" or not. Players are still defending hard driven attacks using overhead passes with fingers in FIVB tournaments now (ruclips.net/video/qcin7TNOzJ0/видео.html), as allowed by rule 9.2.2.1. If you can find any gameplay footage that contradicts this, please post a link!
Ok, I love your videos and always reference them to others for clarity. Last night I played in a tournament, and there was a discrepancy on a hard driven play. The blocker slightly touched the ball, but the ball was still coming hot towards me and it hit my arm and rolled up a little bit. He wanted a lift call, saying extended contact can only occur with hands from above. But the ball never touched my hands, I argued that it rolled up my arm and it was in one motion. This would probably be a discretionary call, yes?
Oof, this sounds like a tough one. I'm not sure what the right call is when the ball rolls up the arm. I've looked for explanations in the rule book and case book but haven't found anything. Glad you enjoy the videos!
Surely, if John Mayer's play was called a double... then the guy in the red shirt at the ten second mark in the video would've been called for double, right?
I understand why the attack at 1:16 isn't a hard driven attack. But why is the defender being called for an illegal contact in this case? It's not a lift and although the ball does spin quite a bit, I don't think it's a double contact. I've watched your hand setting video about doubles.
I went back and looked at the original video where you can see the ref. He called a "double". I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to identifying legal vs illegal handsets, but it kind of looked like the ball hits JM's left hand before his right. The up ref may have had a better angle?
@@daneleblanc4636 Q1: If an attack is not hard driven, can you still defend it overhand with fingers, if it is clean? Q2: If you can set the ball directly (like a second touch), is the other player obliged to attack it or he/she can set it again to you for a third hit? Thanks in advance!
@@georgibotev9286 Yes, overhead with fingers is fine on the first contact if it is clean. No, the other player doesn't have to attack and can set it back for the third hit. I have a whole other video on defending 'non-driven' attacks in the description. Check it out!
What about a hard driven ball, without block in place. The defense is clean, but drives the ball hard on player two nearby, hitting arm and head in one swift motion, without time to react. Is this allowed? Or is it only ok on the first touch, and after block... (Happened to me the other day...) ;-)
Good question, the FIVB casebook states that the serve is a special exception to the hard-driven ball rule (section 5.3.2). A serve can never be considered "hard driven." www.fivb.org/EN/BeachVolleyball/Document_Refereeing/2017_Beach_Volleyball_Rules_Casebook_v21.04.2017.pdf
Important to note that you can play the ball open handed without your hands touching, you just don't get the freedom of the hard-driven ball scenario. You're allowed to double ANY first contact (hard and soft driven OR a serve) as long as you don't not use your fingers (i.e. setting motion). Additionally your hands do not have to be together. The hard driven attack rule (key word attack, since a serve is not considered an attack) allows you freedom to double contact and prolonged contact with your fingers.
Great point Nick. I think I got that covered in one of my other videos (Part One: Non-Driven attacks). Check it out and let me know if I missed anything!
The neverending question on what is considered a hard driven spike goes back even to the AVP 1980s.
Ref said "lift" instead of "catch and/or throw". There is a slightly but still existing different. It may mislead him in judgment
It s a feeling of the referee... The referee feels very quickly when the ball is not right.
Anyone else notice that it's the USA Volleyball amendment that allows for a double contact? The FIVB rule itself only provides for extended contact.
Interesting! Do you think that it's a discrepancy between the two rulebooks or an additional clarification in the USAV book? The clip @1:05 in this video is from an international match and she definitely doubles. My guess is that since it is already written that a double contact on the first ball is allowed (Rule 9.2.2.2) the FIVB didn't feel the need to include it again when talking about hard driven attacks.
@@daneleblanc4636 I would like an official clarification of this case too. I think that if you make an extended overhand contact (on a hard driven ball), a double can still be called. After all, rule 9.2.2.2 does not allow such contacts.
@@vinkhe A double can still be called if there is not "one continuous motion." However, I have never seen a defender get called for a double on a hard driven ball. If you find a case where this happens, please share!
@@vinkhe A double can be called when defending an attack if there are two separate motions in playing the ball, which is the case for attacks that are "hard driven" or not. Players are still defending hard driven attacks using overhead passes with fingers in FIVB tournaments now (ruclips.net/video/qcin7TNOzJ0/видео.html), as allowed by rule 9.2.2.1. If you can find any gameplay footage that contradicts this, please post a link!
Ok, I love your videos and always reference them to others for clarity. Last night I played in a tournament, and there was a discrepancy on a hard driven play. The blocker slightly touched the ball, but the ball was still coming hot towards me and it hit my arm and rolled up a little bit. He wanted a lift call, saying extended contact can only occur with hands from above. But the ball never touched my hands, I argued that it rolled up my arm and it was in one motion. This would probably be a discretionary call, yes?
Oof, this sounds like a tough one. I'm not sure what the right call is when the ball rolls up the arm. I've looked for explanations in the rule book and case book but haven't found anything. Glad you enjoy the videos!
Surely, if John Mayer's play was called a double... then the guy in the red shirt at the ten second mark in the video would've been called for double, right?
What about receiving with open hands
I understand why the attack at 1:16 isn't a hard driven attack. But why is the defender being called for an illegal contact in this case? It's not a lift and although the ball does spin quite a bit, I don't think it's a double contact. I've watched your hand setting video about doubles.
I went back and looked at the original video where you can see the ref. He called a "double". I'm certainly not an expert when it comes to identifying legal vs illegal handsets, but it kind of looked like the ball hits JM's left hand before his right. The up ref may have had a better angle?
@@daneleblanc4636 thanks for the quick response :)
@@daneleblanc4636 Q1: If an attack is not hard driven, can you still defend it overhand with fingers, if it is clean? Q2: If you can set the ball directly (like a second touch), is the other player obliged to attack it or he/she can set it again to you for a third hit? Thanks in advance!
@@georgibotev9286 Yes, overhead with fingers is fine on the first contact if it is clean. No, the other player doesn't have to attack and can set it back for the third hit. I have a whole other video on defending 'non-driven' attacks in the description. Check it out!
What about a hard driven ball, without block in place. The defense is clean, but drives the ball hard on player two nearby, hitting arm and head in one swift motion, without time to react.
Is this allowed? Or is it only ok on the first touch, and after block...
(Happened to me the other day...) ;-)
I'm afraid you don't get any leniency if your partner's pass is 'hard driven' at your face.
A serve I mean
Good question, the FIVB casebook states that the serve is a special exception to the hard-driven ball rule (section 5.3.2). A serve can never be considered "hard driven." www.fivb.org/EN/BeachVolleyball/Document_Refereeing/2017_Beach_Volleyball_Rules_Casebook_v21.04.2017.pdf
Important to note that you can play the ball open handed without your hands touching, you just don't get the freedom of the hard-driven ball scenario. You're allowed to double ANY first contact (hard and soft driven OR a serve) as long as you don't not use your fingers (i.e. setting motion). Additionally your hands do not have to be together. The hard driven attack rule (key word attack, since a serve is not considered an attack) allows you freedom to double contact and prolonged contact with your fingers.
Great point Nick. I think I got that covered in one of my other videos (Part One: Non-Driven attacks). Check it out and let me know if I missed anything!
Which means that you return to the analysis of this other video: ruclips.net/video/OXQ-GVHGOBs/видео.html