God is infinitely powerful only in his own will. Only those who are called hear the shepherds voice, and one cannot hear without God. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. - John 6:44
@The Insufferable Tool your question: How is it possible for God to make any creation or be anywhere where He is not sovereign? my answer is that it’s not possible! i don’t understand your point. would you please elaborate?
@The Insufferable Tool “Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” In John 8:47 “You do not believe because you are not part of my flock. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.” No one can come to the Father unless he draws them. When my God draws someone it is impossible for them to refuse his will. Your view of God is so puny if you think that God can draw people to himself and they can refuse him still. God is collecting his people for himself and all who are drawn near will be saved. i have not logically identified that a free will creation sees a god who is just as sovereign. what free will creation identifies is that people can refuse a God who draws them to himself. My God overrides the puny will of man. and thank goodness for that or else no one would be saved. your understanding of free will is pagan and unbiblical. to understand free will in a biblical context you have to start with realizing the totally depraved state of man that scripture outlines. No one is good but God.
@The Insufferable Tool Nothing but love for you, but I tried reading this and couldn't make heads or tails of what you are saying, and just can't. Let me try to do some course correction here so that you have a better idea of things... 1. Calvinism is actually much more simple than what you're suggesting. It (sorta) starts here... When Adam was first created, he was sinless and could choose to sin or not to sin. When he fell, original sin and its guilt is inherited by all mankind who come from him (except Jesus... which is why we believe in the Virgin Birth). This original sin, and all actual transgressions of God's law that proceed from it, puts us into an estate of sin and misery. We are incapable of ridding ourselves of this estate, and we will continue to be in that estate no matter what we try to do about it. We are dead in sin and so bound up by it, that it pervades every part of all of us, including our wills, desires, motivations, etc. We need God to get us out of the estate of sin and misery. He does this by predestining/electing us, and in time to regenerate us, call us, justify us, sanctify us, and adopt us to himself. See how what I said compares with Ephesians 2:1-10. 2. What #1 says can be distilled down into six words... "We are sinners. God saves sinners." Of course, it can also be expanded... like Calvin's Institutes. lol! 3. In spite of the popularity of this idea, the Calvinism/Arminianism controversy is NOT about Predestination vs. Free Will. The word "predestined" is in the Bible, so everybody has to do something with it. The controversy is about where the MOTIVATION to exercise faith comes from. The Arminian believes that the motivation is found within the person, the Calvinist believes that the motivation is found outside of the person, namely in the Holy Spirit imparting that desire to us. In other words, the question is, "Does the Holy Spirit regenerate our hearts BEFORE or AFTER we exercise faith?" The Calvinist believes in the former, the Arminian believes in the latter. 4. Just for clarity... The Calvinist believes that people DO make a conscious choice to follow Jesus, however the motivation for that choice does not originate within us. It is given to us when the Father draws us to Christ. 5. Yes, you are correct. We DO read election into John 6:44, because Paul makes more explicit in the Epistles what Jesus assumes in the Gospels. It's another way of saying that the Bible doesn't contradict itself, since the Gospels are not at odds with the Epistles. And, yes, we are agreed. The Father DOES draw people to himself through the Holy Spirit... Just, the Calvinist believes that the mechanics here is that the "drawing" is not dependent upon the will of mankind, which is sinful and would never choose to come to the Father in the first place. Also, see vs. 35-40 to see how the "drawing" of the Father will necessitate the "coming" of those who are called. 6. No, you are incorrect. We DON'T argue from the concept of "Calvinist sovereignty and from mystery." We argue more from the covenantal nature of the imputation of the sin of Adam (and it's effects), and the imputation of the righteousness of Christ. 7. Some relevant and succinct passages to consider... Ephesians 1:4-14, 2:1-10; Romans 8:1-9:33; Titus 3:3-8 8. Thanks so much for reading this! I hope this is helpful for you to see the Calvinist side of things. What do you think?
@@calliefreeman765 The passages you’ve brought up speak to the two groups within Israel. Those who had rejected God were hardened and couldn’t believe in Jesus. Those who feared the Father, were given to Jesus. John 17:6 ¶ I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: 👉🏻thine they were👈🏻, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name. 17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
@@spacebbq344 You forgot a couple. The objector in Romans 9 is 1) Jews who thought salvation was only for them as the elect nation of God and could be achieved through works of the law. 2) Calvinists who think salvation is only for them as the Augustinian-elect of God (that includes you). Ironically they both have the same elitist objections and can’t stand the fact that salvation is freely and genuinely offered to all through faith.
@@R01202 Yes Calvinists are the 21st century Pharisees. There’s some that are just deceived and honestly seeking the truth and when they turn to the Lord the veil will be lifted. But for the most part from what I’ve personally witnessed they are not interested in truth, but rather only interested in defending their man-made system. False humility and false grace and re-defined terms in order to keep their system intact at all costs. If their paradigm appears to contradict scripture they will modify scripture to uphold their paradigm instead of the other way around.
Calvinists claim that non-Calvinists can't walk *through* Romans 9. Though really, it's the Calvinist who can't walk *out* of Romans 9 into chapters 10 and 11 using their hermeneutic.
And Calvinists can't even walk through to the end of Romans 9 because they trip over the stumbling stone of verses 30 to 33. The Calvinist interpretation simply doesn't fit with the apostle's own conclusion.
Could someone spell out what you mean? I've always found chapters 9-11 a pretty solid disproof of Dispensationalism and a solid affirmation of Covenant Theology, so I'm not sure where a contradiction with Reformed Theology is supposed to be.
@@oracleoftroy Here's why I think using Romans 9 in isolation to bolster a view of unconditional election leads to potentially misconstruing Paul: In Romans 10 and 11, Paul's outlook toward the hardened Israelites reveals that he's not making them out to be a static number of finally reprobate persons in Romans 9 (the hardened / vessels of wrath). After the cross, the vessels of wrath can now be grafted in if they repent (Romans 11:23). So it seems more likely to me that he's referring to Israelites who were judicially hardened for a time, as God saw fit, in order to let their rebellion play out for the purpose of accomplishing the cross and providing mercy for all, Jew and gentile. Whereas the proponent of Calvinism, typically going to Romans 9 to bolster their doctrine of unconditional election, will view those described as hardened and those described as given mercy as the finally reprobate and unconditionally elect, respectively. That doesn't make a lot of sense in light of Paul's appeal to the same hardened individuals in Romans 11, as I referred to above, if they're without hope due to not being part of an unconditionally elect lump of clay in Romans 9. I think the concept of being chosen by grace is also worthwhile concept to discuss in light of Romans 9-11, as people like me who don't affirm Calvinism would say that being chosen by grace doesn't entail a view of election which is unilateral or unconditional per se, but rather in the overarching context of Paul it can simply refer to being elect by grace through faith. As Paul says, we as believers "obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand" (Romans 5:2). In other words, as long as a person avails to the faith that is in Jesus, which is God's means of mercy after the cross, God sets His seal on them as an individual chosen by His grace, who (according to the plan God decided beforehand) should receive all of the benefits that accompany salvation.
@@jimmygray3452 Thanks. That helps in that you assume I must read those chapters very differently than I do. I sense a bit of confusion between what is true regarding salvation from an ultimate perspective and what is true as salvation plays out in time. Calvinists, as compatibilists, don't see a contradiction between God's will as it pertains to ultimate reality and man's will as they live out their lives in time, though I can see how incompatibilists might have trouble reconciling the two. I'm not sure how chapter 11 doesn't contradict that view in that Paul's focus is clearly not on Israel as the ethnic descendants of Abraham, but on Israel the people of the promise, of which gentiles were always included. Verse 11: 13 clearly shows Paul is speaking to the Gentiles, and his point is around being grafted into Israel as a wild vine. I don't read this passage as looking at salvation from a timeless perspective, of which it is true that God knows exactly who he is saving, but as salvation plays out in time in covenant with God, and so it makes perfect sense that the number increases as the gospel spreads. What is dynamic when we consider it from one moment of time to another is static when we look at the whole of history from God's perspective. I don't see chapter 11 as being about election, but the covenant people, a.k.a "true" Israel as it plays out in time. Those covenant promises given to Abraham way back in Gen 17 weren't just to Abraham, but to his children. And not just his children, but to his servants and the rest of his household, even those who were from far off places. All nations were to be blessed through Abraham. We see this throughout the OT; Moses marries a foreign wife, many Egyptians join Israel in the Exodus, even Rahab and Ruth, gentile women in the line of Jesus. But by the time of the NT, the Israelites seem to have forgotten this and assumed the promise was for ethnic Israel. The NT spends a lot of time correcting this belief, and Romans is no exception. Every chapter has Paul carefully making sure Israelites don't think they get a free pass or exclusive access to God merely for their bloodline, but that the promise is received in faith, not ethnicity. Chapter 11 is where Paul explicitly spells out this idea using the analogy of grafting. In terms of the covenant people, it makes perfect sense and we see people come into the church or leave the church over time. But seeing God's plan of salvation play out in time isn't a refutation that God ultimately knows who is and is not saved. This might be more a Baptist vs non-Baptist thing rather than a Calvinist vs non-Calvinist thing, as Baptists tend to view salvation as individualistic instead of seeing God work in covenant with believers in a federated way.
@@ChaplainBobWalkerBTh God, knowing the future, is not the same as God controlling the future. God knew what all free-will beings would choose, He didn't make them choose the way they did, but he knew what they'd do. I'm a molinist.
@@ChaplainBobWalkerBTh From the foundation of the world not before the foundation of the world. Don't be a platonist it's man's logical systematics that change the nature of God.
@@plumber1874 Exodus 33:19, "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy." Deut. 7:6-8, "For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye [were] the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt." Deut. 10:15, "Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, [even] you above all people, as [it is] this day." Joshua 11:20, "For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, [and] that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses." I Kings 20:42, "And he said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Because thou hast let go out of [thy] hand a man whom I appointed to utter destruction, therefore thy life shall go for his life, and thy people for his people." II Chronicles 6:6, "But I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people Israel." Psalm 33:12, "Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance." Psalm 65:4 "Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple." Psalm 78:67-70, "Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim: But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved. And he built his sanctuary like high [palaces], like the earth, which he hath established forever. He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:" Psalm 135:4, "For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, [and] Israel for his peculiar treasure." Proverbs 16:4, "The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil." Proverbs 21:1, "The king's heart [is] in the hand of the LORD, [as] the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will." Isaiah 44:1-2, "Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.." Isaiah 45:4, "For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me." Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations." Malachi 1:2-3, "I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? [Was] not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.." NT Matthew 20:16, "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.." Matthew 24:22, 24 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened...For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.." Mark 13:20, 22, 27 "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days…For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect…And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven." Luke 8:10, "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." (Matthew 11:25) Luke 18:7, "And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?." John 10:14-16, "I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd ...But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you." John 13:18, "I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me." John 15:16, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you..." John 15:19, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you." but if you want to believe the anti-christs are the chosen people of the Lord so be it. I believe Christians are the elect chosen of the Lord.
Just like my new son in law! He has the script and when I challenges him on a few things he could not answer . He now avoids all conversation on Bible and faith. It seems to me that his faith is just like a thin coating made up by this calvinistic doctrine. What stunns me is that all calvinists I encoutered are kind of filled with some kind of pride like If They new a secret which we ”normal” christians do not know. You know this pride that comes from ”knowing something the others do not know”… Sadly I see it in my son in law… My daughter doesn’t think this is a problem…. Sad, so sad…
I know this video is 3 years old, and I'm only halfway through, but her interpretation of Romans (apologies if this is rude/wrong to say) seems to paint God as being incredibly sadistic, cruel and almost psychopathic. And then adding that well - that's just how it is, and you can't question it? That cannot be right.
I really like your short videos. You have some really great content but I can't always watch for an hour. Sometimes I speed them up but these are great.
God’s hardening is specifically in terms of strategic hardening through directing their thoughts and actions through their desires and emotions to bring about his will which God does not do to someone unless they have already hardened their own hearts to the gospel.
@@youtubeuser8393 Yes it does, but they chose to harden themselves in the first place thereby relinquishing their freewill so as to be used by God for his purposes.
Calvinism is to have a list of al the people living in a town, sending an invitation to your house to all of them but only telling a few what your name is, where you live and when the party is. ... and then holding responsible those who didn't attend for not attending, when, in fact, you didn't want them to attend at all. It makes so much sense.
Allie is pregnant in that video. What If the baby in her womb is not elected for salvation? What If God in His soverane Will decided He doesn’t want that child in His heaven? In fact He chose Allie’s baby for destruction...”for Him to be glorified ”... Wonder If Silly Allie dares to be honest to herself and apply a though to this....
This reminds of Matt 23:15, where Jesus said, "woe unto you scribes and pharisees, for ye compassion sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves." I've had calvinists say that they don't talk about this when witnessing and that this is for discipleship after they are saved. But here she is talking to him about this false doctrine. This makes me angry that there are people foolish enough to tell a lost soul this nonsense. He is already lost, and doesn't need someone to sow bad seed that will cause confusion and seal his fate.. Exactly how does one square becoming twofold the child of hell with unconditional election? If you missed out on election, it doesn't get anymore hopeless and one never could get closer to heaven. Calvinism renders such passages as a mere charade and pointless if unconditional election is true.
She should've just keep her mouth shut. No disrespect intended, but she is just scaring him away by portaying a bad christianity (theology). Seeing how logical and smart Ben is, he will see (probably already seen) how dumb and ridiculous calvinism is.
@The Insufferable Tool Well I sure hope he does know there are other positions, because calvinism is just plain dumb. And ridiculous. I know I always say the same but it's true.
this is why Unconditional Election is the best! I don’t have to worry about scaring anyone away because in the end God will either save them or not and it has nothing to do with what i tell them. God will save whom he wills. the only thing that’s dumb and ridiculous is people hating on Calvinism when they haven’t even read John Calvins works. John Calvin is the greatest theologian to ever live.
Would you consider mirroring your videos on Odysee? Would be awesome to see you on a platform that will actually notify me when you upload, rather than require me to happen upon it by chance
Wait what did you mean about the best Calvinistic sources not believing in double predestination from Romans 9? Calvin believed in double predestination and cited Romans 9 from my understanding.
If God is absolutely sovereign as they claim, He would want His creation to love Him because they CHOSE to love Him because they recognize His sovereignty and they love His mercy, grace, kindness, and compassion. Not because He predestined them to love Him. For a human, that would be like genetically engineering a human being to love you and being happy with that. How is that even possible? These people, man. This isn't about sovereignty at all. I think they've gotten the words sanctify and sanctimony confused, because all I hear is sanctimony. The Calvinistic belief is just a bunch of people trying to outdo each other to prove they're the "elect". It's silly.
Allie Beth IS consistent, and acknowledges the absolute sovereignty of God, His right to do as He sees fit. You guys can argue with Him if you want, but you'll lose every time. Stop trying to impose YOUR idea of how God should be. Humble yourselves before the Judge of all the earth.
Hello...I hope to help you understand. The fathers of Israel TURNED away from God. They removed themselves from the hands of the potter. By doing this they BECAME vessels of wrath..which they made themselves into by turning away. They then taught their children their ways which caused their children to become "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" because they weren't teaching them the truth...as you know, children PUT their trust in their fathers. By turning away from God THEY CREATED "unbelieving Israel". They grew hardened, their ears became dull of hearing, they closed their eyes to the things of God. They were once soft and mouldable but in their rebelling against the hands of the Potter, the Potter strengthened them in their resolve as a PUNISHMENT for their rebellion against him, and then he sent salvation into the world to provoke them to JEALOUSY that they might humble themselves and TURN back to God and place themselves back into his hands to mold them as he will! A bit of salvation through faith WITHOUT the works of the law is just enough to provoke JEALOUSY...especially granting salvation to the freakin' HEATHENS 😡!!! By doing this God has made his power KNOWN...don't mess with the Potter! 😁 He will harden whom he will and he will show mercy on whom he will...and God has made it very clear, that he will show mercy on ANYONE that will humble themselves from their personal thrones and accept the truth...and the truth is that no one is good, no not one, BUT GOD, so the only way to get to him is through faith in HIS righteousness, not ours. We are able to become "good" IN Christ THROUGH faith...we impute the righteousness of Christ by simply believing the record that God gave of his Son. If we hear the words..."Christ died for OUR sins", what does that make us? Answer: UNRIGHTEOUS SINNERS. That is what we must make of ourselves before we can move forward and receive the hope of glory in Christ Jesus. The law was given for the knowledge of sin to MAKE us GUILTY. Once we are made guilty by the law we become hopeless...the gospel is sent to bring us HOPE so that we may freely receive it! 🤗 It's BRILLIANT...it DESTROYS all possibility of PRIDE!!! 🔨
I appreciated this insight. I would consider myself a soft calvinist I guess since I have issues thinking through the doctrines a lot. I think of it like this, everyone who comes to believe is the elect of God, God offers His free gift of salvation to all but ultimately He knows who and who won't come, they are condemned already because of their unbelief. Now that may sound confusing, but that's my current understanding. From what I've observed, in discussions like calvinism vs. arminism we try and get into the mind of God and ultimately it ends in a migraine. It's a bit of a cliche to say "God is higher than us", but it is true. I am still learning about this subject and I enjoy fresh insights like these, but I always come back to the fact that God is all-powerfull and all-knowing, and I'm not. I'll never understand why He does the things He does. I'll never understand His mind. This subject drives me to a place of dependence on God's good character, God's wisdom, and the fact that He will work everything out to His glory. thanks for this video.
John MacArthur is an excellent Bible teacher and I listen to him everyday. When he teaches on the Calvanist doctrine though, tons of questions and problems with known scripture arise. It never fits. He was asked once about aborted babies and if they go to Heaven. In short, he said yes. But by the Calvanist doctrine, every one of them would have to be the elect. That makes no sense. We have to agree to disagree with our brethren sometimes.
Think twice about John MacArthur,he is not a good Bible teacher as the following will enlighten you. Christians watching this, some advice! Who and what do you think the false prophets that Jesus warned us about would like and sound like? Would they be wild men, gruff voiced ranting lunitics? Of course not. Satan was described as one of the most beautiful Angels and his servants would be like wise. Serious, soft pleasing voices, wise and articulate. They wouldn't come to the World and preach outrageous lies straight off. They would preach almost truth to deceive even the elect. ( and by elect I mean real Christians that came to Christ) Rat poison is 99 % good food, its that 1% of poison that will destroy you! Look at satans conversation with EVE. He changed only one word of scripture, just one word and caused the fall of mankind. Sproul, Piper, MacAurthur, White, Calvin, Augustine and many others ARE the modern day anti- christs, false teachers, and false prophets. May be you have been fooled by one of them, because they spend a lot of time teaching truths before they come right out and feed you the poison. I am going to print out text right from John Pipers website and ask yourself is this the Jesus we love and follow. Keep in mind if you were to ask any of the men I listed they ALL agree with it. So here is Pipers statement...... This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . .
@@truth7416 I disagree. I've found his teaching to be accurate, sobering and challenging as it should be. It's Calvanism that I have a problem with. He's given the true gospel regularly. If he were trying to mislead people, he'd be doing a bad job of it. I've never heard him make any prophecies either so I don't see how the title false prophet could apply to him. I must point out that I can't just take your words as truth either. What you say also false under the same testing. For all I know, you could be a false teacher trying to mislead me. "Test the spirits to see if they are from God" applies to you as well.
@JChrisTruth146 Attending a conference hardly calls for repentance. The Scribes and Pharisees used to accuse Jesus because He ate with sinners. You shouldn't jump to conclusions and judgement so quickly.
What an excellent breakdown of this clip. Calvinism has saturated churches and is making people look to THEIR WORKS as a proof for their salvation. Our church is dedicated to the clear gospel message. Good work! Prayers from Tampa Bay!
What Calvinist would point to their own works for proof? They just show that I am the chief of sinners and in dire need of a savior. Instead, we point to God's work in us.
"THEIR WORKS"....what?!?! This is actually the utter opposite, 180, night vs. Dark, of what calvanist believe....not to be rude but you just clearly have no idea at all what calvanism is.
Yep. That's where Calvinists must necessarily leave things. They can't make sense of the conflict because it doesn't make sense. They like to fall back on the idea that humans can't understand God's ways. And while I have no doubt that God is far bigger than any of us will ever fully comprehend, to use that as a backstop for why our theology need not be rationally and logically consistent is to open ourselves to all manner of wrongheaded beliefs--including beliefs that even Calvinists wouldn't accept.
AS long as one holds to GOD choosing/electing people to salvation, others to otherwise, and miss that He chooses the would be saved by faith freely, ordaining these saved to Sanctification by his Son, that system collapses in the face of Scripture. The complexity of Calvinism is unimaginable emptiness, and turns from the simplicity of that which is written to a monstrous pile of human wisdom, foolishness unto GOD. Love Allie but disagree.
Romans 9: movement of the election. Vessels of Wrath: Israel Vessels of Mercy: Gentiles Jacob crossed his arms: Ephraim is blessed above his older brother Manasseh. Jesus: He who is first will be last, he who is last will be first.
The reason it is a conundrum is because it is self-contradictory and illogical. What that should prompt is not a doubling down on your theory and restating the illogic louder, but an abandoning of it.
Calvinists mis-define "sovereignty" to mean Meticulous Determinism. They use the term for it's rhetorical value and most people hear it and don't get what they're doing. Every believer will accept that God is 'sovereign'... but that does not mean he must control all things at all times simply because he could if he wanted to. By definition a "sovereign" is free to do as he pleases but not obligate to do anything. Lucifer's ability to rebel was no threat to God in Heaven, Adam's ability to rebel was no threat to God in the Garden, and our ability to love and obey, or reject and rebel against God is no threat to his sovereignty today. This is clear in Gen.4 when God speaks to Cain saying it will go well with him if he chooses 'well' and not so good if he does not. Cain choose poorly, but it was his choice to make. Otherwise, God was lying to him.
jesus also says if you ackowledge me before men i will ackowledge you before them father , if you disown me i will disown you to the father. he even says i am the only way to the father.
Guarded Post by You Tube : I have been warned. If I say something Google doesn't like I will get a 24 hour "time out". This TOPIC is thin ice and I have been warned.
Not sure I follow you on this one, Dr Flowers. As I understand it, Paul's epistle to the Romans was written to the Church in Rome. The "vessels of wrath" he's referring to are not his audience. His audience is made up of believers who want to understand why God finds fault with unbelievers whom God predestined to be unbelievers.
Romans 9: 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. 16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. Did the apostles choose Jesus or did Jesus chose the apostles? John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Calvinists: 'World' means a small group. 'All' means a handful. 'All people' means some people. 'God is not willing' means God IS willing 'All people, everywhere' means a small group somewhere. 'Choose life' doesn't mean you get a choice. 'He doesn't want anyone to perish' means he wants people to perish. 'The Lord takes no pleasure when the wicked die' means the Lord takes pleasure when wicked people die-he extracts glory (pleasure) from their death. 'Blotting people out of the book of life' doesn't mean they were written in the book of life. 'Branches being broken off due to unbelief' doesn't mean those branches were attached; or that they believed. 'Being cast into the place prepared for the Devil and his angels' means a place created for [you]. 'Love is not self-seeking' means love is self-seeking.
@@michaal105 I have and did and Revelation 2:9 “I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”
Stuckey just did an interview with Jinger Duggar Vuolo. The Duggar family was in some type of cult. Jinger got out of the cult, met and married a “Reformed” pastor and wrote a book about it. Is getting out of a cult and into Calvinism some version of falling upwards? She’s a sister in Christ but her Calvinist foundations are Manichean dualism. That dualism is going to eat away at Stuckey and Duggar-Vuolo. Reminds me of Alana L confronting herself about the prospect of teaching her children that they may indeed be damned to Hell and can’t do anything about it.
I know it saddens me that Jinger Dugger has left one cult to join to Calvinism. And to have Allie explaining this doctrine while pregnant just makes my skin crawl. To your example that Alana began to understand how this theology would affect her children.
@@Abby-un4zd Christian Apologist Frank Turek said 5 point Calvinism makes God the author of Evil. He’s absolutely correct. Such a shame. If Calvinists only knew the perfect goodness of God. Evil can’t come from the perfect Goodness of God.
Who made phaorah a Jew? Clearly it was a reference to Phaorah. Explain someone to me because I have no knowledge of why Paul would make a reference to Jews being unhardened if Pharoah, who died, is not a Jew at all
Jesus love you, he died on the cross for you, accept him as your lord and savior he can change everything. For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life" (Jn 3:16" But you must repent too. From that time Jesus went about preaching and saying, Let your hearts be turned from sin, for the kingdom of heaven is near. (Matthew 4:17)+
Yes He knows who will and wont choose Him. But He creates us all to choose Him. We re all given that choice. But yes He knows who will go which way....
So you think there are people who seek God and don't harden there hart and after that God rewards them by mercy ? I am confused with your explanations .., and how do you explain this ? as it is written: “There is no righteous person, not even one; There is no one who understands, There is no one who seeks out God; They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, There is not even one.” Romans 3:10-12
Mark 6:6 says Jesus marveled at their unbelief. Why would He marvel at something He caused to happen? I mean if He created them to be hard and not believe, why marvel at it? Was He surprised that the hardening that He (or the Father) desired worked? This makes no sense to me.
I will again point out that not all Calvinists hold to a hard double predestination viewpoints. Those who hold to a more hard double predestination view generally tend to be higher Calvinists. There is some disagreement within reformed circles regarding the decrees of God. The more mainstream view in these circles is the idea that God is not forcing the sinner's hand in rejecting Him. He is simply leaving them to their fallen will. This idea is referred to as infralapsarianism. Ultimately in this view God (logical order not a chronological order) predestined after the fall. There is much debate over whether Calvin held to a higher view of Calvinism (supralapsarianism). Even your theologians like Berkhoff and even Calvin to a certain extent understood the difficulty of a higher view of Calvinism.. That it could potentially make Him the author of sin. Distinctions are important, because they keep us from straw men arguments. God bless.
The end result is the same whether high calvinist or not. The unelected can't repent period. The high calvinists are just honest enough to admit the obvious. Only good thing about the others is many do not live their calvinism out well because even they realize choices are made.
"...For whom He foreknew, he predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ." God's foreknowledge does not dictate that conclusion. Omniscience of a 'constant drunk driving' does not predestine the accident which is inevitable. It's still a free-will choice. Adam and Eve had a free choice to eat of the forbidden fruit.
I find that Arminianism requires you to be a creative genius to interpret the Bible because all of the verses that describe God’s sovereignty have to be nuanced. Everyone needs to step back and acknowledge these truths: (1) God operates outside of space and time, (2) history has already been predetermined, and (3) it is not just that God knows the future, but He also planned every detail. Free will is a human experience that is foreign to God. We have to acknowledge that (unlike God) man lives and makes (or experiences free will) decisions within the confines of space and time, where time always moves forward. We cannot jump into the future to see the outcomes of our decisions, and we cannot go backwards in time to undo bad decisions. We also have flawed understanding of our circumstances and our fleshy desires also affect our decision making. Some argue that we must have free will to love God because otherwise we would be robots that cannot truly love. But this flies in the face of the New Covenant, which we also call the gospel. The New Covenant describes the Holy Spirit changing our hearts to be perfectly aligned with God’s will. If we “delight” ourselves in the Lord, He will give us the desires of our heart. In other words, being filled with the Spirit means that we do whatever we want, but doing what we want is in perfect alignment with God’s will. He uses that to accomplish His purpose. We experience free will, but it is in total conformance with God’s will. That is the only way God can cause all things to work together for good to those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. Heaven will be filled with transformed people whose will is in perfect alignment with God’s will, yet they will experience maximum love and free will. Only God could pull this off. But this is the only way to redeem mankind. People with free will that is not in perfect alignment with God’s will are not allowed into heaven because otherwise they would ruin it... Calvinism is right - from God’s perspective where God is sovereign. Arminianism is right - from man’s perspective where we experience free will in a very practical way. Any belief that we can somehow thwart God’s plan by our free will, even to the most minute detail, is wrong theology. Everything is resolved when we acknowledge that free will is a human experience, limited by space and time, that is foreign to God.
Your third point is unbiblical. Nowhere does the Bible say that He has meticulously planned every detail. This world is filled with evil intents, decisions, and actions, but the Bible says that, "God is light *and in Him is no darkness at all* " 1 john 1:5 God has *nothing* to do with the works of darkness. He did not orchestrate rape to occur, or torturing little babies to death, or the manufacturing and usage of drugs that destroy a person's mind, etc. God sees everything, but that doesn't mean He made a plan for all that to occur. We need to be careful when describing God's sovereignty in a way that takes His sovereignty away. Just because He is sovereign does not mean He engineered every corrupt system or evil action to occur. It means He is free to interact as He wishes to, and the Bible says clearly that He has designed reality in such a way where man is free to make decisions all on his own apart from divine manipulation. Jesus said, “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!" Matthew 23:37 Jesus Himself presupposed libertarian free will many times, yet nowhere do we see Him espouse a calvinistic model of determinism. I think true sovereignty and divine wisdom is being able to carry out your purpose and will amidst the myriad of autonomous choices made by countless individual's who oppose that plan. THAT is what is truly mind-blowing and worthy of utmost esteem and worship. Only God can meet such a standard. Again, He doesn't accomplish His good will *with* evil, He accomplishes it *through it* or in spite of it being there.
Using man's logic God wanted cain to kill abel because if God didn't want abel dead God would have intervened and prevented cain form killing abel. But that's not what the bible teaches, God clearly wanted cain to over come the sin crouching at his door. GOD didn't eternally Sovereignly decree for cain to kill abel even though man's logical systematics says God did.
@@MrMarkovka11 Your response that God is sovereign, but not responsible for evil in the world, diminishes God. Your view tries to understand God from a human perspective, which is a mistake.There are lots of verses that describe God’s total sovereignty in that He not only knows everything that occurs over time, but also planned everything. It’s one of the reasons why we can trust prophecy. The verses in the Bible that describe our free will and responsibility for the decisions we make are from the human perspective, because that is really all we can relate to. We certainly experience free will. I explained in my previous post how in heaven we will be transformed by the Holy Spirit so that our will is perfectly aligned with God’s will and by this, God will cause all things to work for good. That is the only way to restore mankind and create a utopia. Yet, we will still experience total free will and maximum love for God. Take a step back and imagine God as the author of a murder mystery novel with humans as characters in His story. All kinds of evil things could be happening in the story, but that doesn’t make the author evil. The story is written and the characters do not get to change anything about the story, even though when you read the murder mystery and are drawn into the story, it sure feels like there is free will going on. That is because free will is an experience. It is a mistake to diminish God by bringing Him to our level in terms understanding free will. God does not have free will the way we experience it because He operates outside of space and time.
@@utopiamath9070 I'm sorry but I don't want to imagine God as murder mystery author devising evil schemes so that his protagonist will look good in the end. Nope.
@Jono I simply pointed out that God hardened pharaoh's heart first. Many people don't know that and don't want to believe that b/c it goes against their theology. But that is in fact what scripture teaches. With the holy spirit you should be able to draw your own conclusion
If you go back to Exodus 3:19, God tells Moses, “But I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go unless a mighty hand forces him." So, to actually be true to the text, Pharoah had already hardened his own heart, and God knew it full well.... He searches the heart and tests the mind (Jer 17:10) God simply strengthened him in that resolve.
@@nedranasekos1118 false.... pharaoh didn't even know about Moses' request yet. He had not yet hardened his heart. God was just explaining that he already knows the future.... (hint hint because he predestined it AND made it be so).
@Jono yes it does.... But you don't want to see it. You don't even want to acknowledge the fact that God hardened pharaoh's heart first. Which was my main point. Many people will ignore facts like these because it goes against their preconceived doctrine.
Calvinism is wrong, Calvin was wrong,... just knowing something is going to happen is not the same thing as making something happen. With regards to Pharaoh, note that with the first 5 plagues Pharaoh hardened his own heart.
In Genesis when it's talking about hardening Pharaoh's heart.....which takes place first, Pharaoh hardening his own heart or God hardening Pharaoh's heart? Please provide chapter and verse.
Do you mean Exodus? The first verse about hardening is Exodus 4:21. This is when the LORD tells Moses (before he has even gone to Pharaoh) He will harden Pharaoh’s heart so that he won’t let the people go.
@Jono Hi. I don't understand your response. Calvinists believe in God's foreknowledge. The difference between Calvinist and Arminian doctrine on this issue is on what basis does God know all things. The Calvinist bases it in God's decrees. I was just answering Joshua's hardening question. The first instance where hardening is mentioned is in chapter 4. Chapter 3 explains what will happen, but it doesn't explain why it will happen. Proverbs 21:1
@Jono God knows what is going to happen....because He is the one making it happen. No one here is arguing the two are "completely independent".......that's a strawman argument.
@Jono Hi Jono. Can you please explain what you mean by "unconditional reprobation". I have never heard anyone from a Calvinist/Reformed perspective use that term. Actually, I don't think I have ever heard that term until reading it in your post. Unconditional election, on the other hand, is one of the five terms in TULIP.
Wow! I’m pleasantly surprised she’s a Calvinist!! I once went to a church where the pastor skipped over Romans 9 because it “contains some things people don’t like.” That other dude clearly doesn’t want to accept the clear language in the passage.
Its been hard for me to listen to Allie after I realized her beliefs in Calvanism. I agree with her on a lot of big picture things and enjoy a lot of her guest speakers, but knowing what she really believes makes me wonder why she even does her podcast? Its an oxymoron in essence. If she believes that God has already chosen who He will or will not save, seems like she is wasting her time, energy, and breath on trying to influence her audience or the world at large because in her views God has already predetermined the fate of every person. On a pesonal level, I believe Calvanism makes a great mockery of God's love and great rescue plan for all humanity through Jesus life, death, and resurrection, and it's a mockery of the nature and character of God. The god of John Calvin of not the God of the Bible. Also, the historical John Calvin was a rather cruel man who made death threats and advocated for the beheading and burning at the stake those he disagreed with. Clearly this man did not understand the heart of God, so how can you trust any of his theology be trusted?
What Paul tell us in Romans 9 is crystal clear in the light that there is God’s children and the children of the world or Satan. No need for a special interpretation. Furthermore, God’s children are separated in two. The first one is unrighteous because they don’t know who they are, but if they come to this knowledge, they are righteous by faith. Romans 5:1,2. Interesting to see this in Jesu’s words about the three types of individuals mentioned in Matthew 25:14-30. The one who ends with four talents will not even have what the last servant start with, five. So the three groups represent 1) the children of the world, 2) God’s children meant to live through the world without receiving enough to realize who they are and 3) the ones who are aware of their true identity. Group two and thee is mentioned in connection to the resurrection in acts 24:15. The children of the world will never have a resurrection at all. All three is mentioned in Revelation 20:5,6,15. It is also evident from reading John 17:9,18.
God in His Sovereignty gave man a free will. WE either accept His free gift of eternal life or not. Once we accept we have eternal life. You can not make God a liar. John 6:47 Romans 11:29 For the GIFTS, eternal life, and the calling of God, John 12:32, are without repentance. Irrevocable, can not be changed back. Romans 1:16 The gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4. That Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, that He was buried and rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures. The second we believe that gospel apart from any works, He imputes His perfect righteousness to us, and will no more impute sin to our account. Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also AFTER YE BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise. John 3:18 Once we believe it we can never be condemned again. Paid in full. Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit in whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. John 1:12 Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the POWER of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVETH. First Corinthians 1:21. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, physical death, and we all sin, First John 1:8, and we all die, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Acts 16:31 Faith alone. Faith is not a work. The GIFT of God is eternal life. Not faith. And not a reward for good behavior, but a free gift. No man can earn it. Romans 11:6 AMAZING GRACE, JESUS PAID IT ALL AND WE PAID 0. First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
First John 2:2 Christ died for the sins of the whole world. First Timothy 2:4 God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that all come to the knowledge of Christ. John 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that ALL that seeth the Son, and believeth on Him that sent me, may have everlasting life, and I WILL RAISE HIM UP ON THE LAST DAY. John 6:29 Jesus, answered, and said unto them, this is the work of God, that ye believe on the one He has sent. Romans 11:6. AMAZING GRACE, JESUS PAID IT ALL AND WE PAID 0. IT IS FREE, BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PAY THEIR OWN SIN DEBT. Romans 4:5. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Faith alone in Jesus alone apart from works for the free gift of eternal life. John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE. PRESENT TENSE. God can not lie. Jesus said it, we believe it, and that settles it. John 3:16-18. Gods word.
God knows everything that is real. God knows the past because He was there. God knows the present because He is here. The future doesn't exist -- it isn't real. God knows His PLANS for the future, but like all plans, those exist in the present. That's why God can change His mind at various points without affecting His plan. For instance, when Israel sinned, God told Moses that He would destroy Israel and make Moses into a great nation. God would have been perfectly right and just to do so. When Moses interceded for Israel, God changed His mind. And He was perfectly right and just to do so. When God told Israel to occupy the Promised Land, they refused. That didn't derail God's plan, He just took them on a forty-year detour -- but He got Israel to His destination, just as He planned.
Why do people have a such hard time with God pre-ordaining even evil? A Christian, of all people, should know that God pre-ordained the murder of the sinless Son of God. That was by far the most evil thing that could ever happen. And yet God used the greatest evil to bring about the greatest good for us, and even more importantly for His own glory. Any other evil is a lesser evil than that, and should be much easier to accept that He uses those as well for our good and His glory. 🙏
But he repaired all the damage of that by raising Christ from the dead, he may pre ordain evil but James White's objection of purposeless evil is perfectly applicable to his own God's hell. God having the power to make those people repent and fix the evil he caused to come into the world and willfully chosing not to.
Question.. Since God knows what you're going to do in the future, can you "change" what God knows by your freewill of action? If that's possible, aren't you more powerful than God and His thoughts? Man's freewill can change what God knows in the future? Man's freewill can override God's foreknowledge?
God can only know what can be known. Once God gave man freewill to choose it can't always be certain. God tells us in a few places that He did not for see what we might choose. Here are a few examples : 35 They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded-nor did it enter my mind-that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin. Jeremiah 32:35 27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. Acts 17:27 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 13:3 5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. Genesis 6:5-6 9 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed at him, and turning to the crowd following him, he said, “I tell you, I have not found such great faith even in Israel.” 10 Then the men who had been sent returned to the house and found the servant well. Luke 7:9-10 4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith. Mark 6:4-7 This in NO WAY diminishes God's sovereignty. Look at it this way. If the Titanic was God's World, He directs its course and destination. The freewill choices the passengers make on the deck can be predicted just as you have a drift of how your kids would react in a given situation. But! You cannot know for sure and that is why I said its clear, God cannot know freewill outcomes totally. God tells us that in the scripture above.
God gave a revelation through His prophet in the 1800's about Pharaoh. Moses originally wrote that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. God didn't harden Pharaoh's heart.
I’m not attacking you, it’s just that you shouldn’t name your RUclips channel soteriology 101. Instead it should be called (soteriology ) since your view has not even been historically held view for one. I personally think you could do better by trying simply to present your view. BTW I’m reformed and that is my view of Romans 9😁
Why would you assume that Leighton could have named his teaching anything other than Soteriology 101, since anything that comes to pass has been ordained of God from eternity past. God willed that Soteriology 101 be called what it is. Or do you subconsciously believe in freewill since that is how reality actually works, everyone is faced with choices every day and the choices we make actually correspond to the reality that we live in. Or maybe God, being a Calvinist just enjoys fooling humanity, making it appear that we are free to pick either strawberry or chocolate ice-cream? Try living constantly with your Calvinistic beliefs for a month and you will soon discover it is a philosophy that is impossible to hold to on a consistent basis.
Should I be concerned about how you responded to my comment. No . I’m not. However, I never attacked his position, and Calvinist doesn’t see it that way. Maybe if you looked into Calvinism, you wouldn’t misrepresent it like that.
@@ReformedGibberish5881 Okay there Herold, tell how Calvinism sees God's sovereignty. You say Calvinist don't believe that God has decreed from eternity past all that will come to pass. Explain to me how it works.
@@ReformedGibberish5881 “All events whatsoever are governed by the secret counsel of God.”John Calvin (1509-1564) Declares God's Absolute Control of Everything.
As a "Pelagian Heretic" I fully disavow any and all strains of Calvinism.....If Calvinism is true then the entire exercise of Christian redemption is a sham.....
Leighton you missed by that much.....no where is hope given up. As long as there's breath there's hope. Note the man on the cross....and we don't hear Allie giving up hope for the lost
Who is this guy? He's not a theologien because he doesn't represent the Calvinists view or the Armenian view and obviously has no respect for Gods word the way he twist it like a pretzel to make it fit his beliefs. He's intelligent but he is not someone you should be getting your doctrine from.
Man, I respect you videos. I enjoy hearing both sides, but the Bible clearly teaches Gods sovereignty that John Calvin spoke of. I see both sides and don’t try to harmonize it. I can’t, but denying it completely as you and many “non Calvinist” do is just unbiblical. Many parts you stated have many easy comebacks. It can go round and round. Stop denying such a glorious teaching of the Bible.
IF you are a non Calvinist but you believe that God knew before the Foundation of the World who would go to Heaven and who would go to Hell, then your position is the same as the Calvinist position. You believe in predestination. Let’s break it down and I will prove it to you. God knew before the Foundation of the World that if He were to create and bring into existence person X ( call person X, Billy ), that Billy would reject Him and go to Hell. You claim that Billy has free will and it is Billy’s own free will that takes him to Hell. Are you sure about that ?? Once Billy actually exists in this world can he prove God’s knowledge wrong ( which is, that Billy would reject Him and go to Hell ) by getting saved and becoming a Christian? Yes or No ? Note: If Billy can't do other than reject God and go to Hell, then He has no Free Will. If Billy has free will, then God can be proven wrong in His knowledge by Billy getting saved and becoming a Christian ( and can God ever be wrong ? ).
If one is intelligent enough to understand Calvinism, one is certainly intelligent enough to reject it for being logically inconsistent
They love their systematic though. It's possible to love your doctrine more than Jesus
The free will fallacy is much much much worse!
@xwingvalet5267 That's an assertion in search of an argument.
Go to the end of the line and start over.
I have no trouble believing that God is infinitely powerful and can still allow free will if He so chooses.
God is infinitely powerful only in his own will. Only those who are called hear the shepherds voice, and one cannot hear without God.
No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day. - John 6:44
@The Insufferable Tool your question: How is it possible for God to make any creation or be anywhere where He is not sovereign?
my answer is that it’s not possible! i don’t understand your point. would you please elaborate?
@The Insufferable Tool “Whoever is of God hears the words of God. The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.” In John 8:47
“You do not believe because you are not part of my flock. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.”
No one can come to the Father unless he draws them. When my God draws someone it is impossible for them to refuse his will. Your view of God is so puny if you think that God can draw people to himself and they can refuse him still. God is collecting his people for himself and all who are drawn near will be saved.
i have not logically identified that a free will creation sees a god who is just as sovereign. what free will creation identifies is that people can refuse a God who draws them to himself. My God overrides the puny will of man. and thank goodness for that or else no one would be saved.
your understanding of free will is pagan and unbiblical. to understand free will in a biblical context you have to start with realizing the totally depraved state of man that scripture outlines. No one is good but God.
@The Insufferable Tool Nothing but love for you, but I tried reading this and couldn't make heads or tails of what you are saying, and just can't. Let me try to do some course correction here so that you have a better idea of things...
1. Calvinism is actually much more simple than what you're suggesting. It (sorta) starts here... When Adam was first created, he was sinless and could choose to sin or not to sin. When he fell, original sin and its guilt is inherited by all mankind who come from him (except Jesus... which is why we believe in the Virgin Birth). This original sin, and all actual transgressions of God's law that proceed from it, puts us into an estate of sin and misery. We are incapable of ridding ourselves of this estate, and we will continue to be in that estate no matter what we try to do about it. We are dead in sin and so bound up by it, that it pervades every part of all of us, including our wills, desires, motivations, etc. We need God to get us out of the estate of sin and misery. He does this by predestining/electing us, and in time to regenerate us, call us, justify us, sanctify us, and adopt us to himself. See how what I said compares with Ephesians 2:1-10.
2. What #1 says can be distilled down into six words... "We are sinners. God saves sinners." Of course, it can also be expanded... like Calvin's Institutes. lol!
3. In spite of the popularity of this idea, the Calvinism/Arminianism controversy is NOT about Predestination vs. Free Will. The word "predestined" is in the Bible, so everybody has to do something with it. The controversy is about where the MOTIVATION to exercise faith comes from. The Arminian believes that the motivation is found within the person, the Calvinist believes that the motivation is found outside of the person, namely in the Holy Spirit imparting that desire to us. In other words, the question is, "Does the Holy Spirit regenerate our hearts BEFORE or AFTER we exercise faith?" The Calvinist believes in the former, the Arminian believes in the latter.
4. Just for clarity... The Calvinist believes that people DO make a conscious choice to follow Jesus, however the motivation for that choice does not originate within us. It is given to us when the Father draws us to Christ.
5. Yes, you are correct. We DO read election into John 6:44, because Paul makes more explicit in the Epistles what Jesus assumes in the Gospels. It's another way of saying that the Bible doesn't contradict itself, since the Gospels are not at odds with the Epistles. And, yes, we are agreed. The Father DOES draw people to himself through the Holy Spirit... Just, the Calvinist believes that the mechanics here is that the "drawing" is not dependent upon the will of mankind, which is sinful and would never choose to come to the Father in the first place. Also, see vs. 35-40 to see how the "drawing" of the Father will necessitate the "coming" of those who are called.
6. No, you are incorrect. We DON'T argue from the concept of "Calvinist sovereignty and from mystery." We argue more from the covenantal nature of the imputation of the sin of Adam (and it's effects), and the imputation of the righteousness of Christ.
7. Some relevant and succinct passages to consider... Ephesians 1:4-14, 2:1-10; Romans 8:1-9:33; Titus 3:3-8
8. Thanks so much for reading this! I hope this is helpful for you to see the Calvinist side of things. What do you think?
@@calliefreeman765
The passages you’ve brought up speak to the two groups within Israel. Those who had rejected God were hardened and couldn’t believe in Jesus. Those who feared the Father, were given to Jesus.
John 17:6 ¶ I have manifested thy name unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: 👉🏻thine they were👈🏻, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word.
Mal 3:16 Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
17 And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.
Mal 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
Ben Shapiro... come to the LIGHT of Jesus Christ! I really like that guy!
@@youtubeuser8393 ahhh stop being such a Calvinist 😜😂
@@awakeandfearless4143 lol
@@youtubeuser8393 Would love to see him become a Messianic Jew then.
I dont like his there is no racism shtick
Amen let us pray for him
Ben shot right through that mess and he isn't even saved lol
With FACTS and LOGIC
🤣
Facts don't care about your feelings 😂
@@spacebbq344 You forgot a couple.
The objector in Romans 9 is
1) Jews who thought salvation was only for them as the elect nation of God and could be achieved through works of the law.
2) Calvinists who think salvation is only for them as the Augustinian-elect of God (that includes you).
Ironically they both have the same elitist objections and can’t stand the fact that salvation is freely and genuinely offered to all through faith.
@@R01202 Yes Calvinists are the 21st century Pharisees.
There’s some that are just deceived and honestly seeking the truth and when they turn to the Lord the veil will be lifted.
But for the most part from what I’ve personally witnessed they are not interested in truth, but rather only interested in defending their man-made system.
False humility and false grace and re-defined terms in order to keep their system intact at all costs.
If their paradigm appears to contradict scripture they will modify scripture to uphold their paradigm instead of the other way around.
She’s witnessing to a Jew, and turning him further from Christ. 😡
Calvinists claim that non-Calvinists can't walk *through* Romans 9. Though really, it's the Calvinist who can't walk *out* of Romans 9 into chapters 10 and 11 using their hermeneutic.
100% truth
And Calvinists can't even walk through to the end of Romans 9 because they trip over the stumbling stone of verses 30 to 33. The Calvinist interpretation simply doesn't fit with the apostle's own conclusion.
Could someone spell out what you mean? I've always found chapters 9-11 a pretty solid disproof of Dispensationalism and a solid affirmation of Covenant Theology, so I'm not sure where a contradiction with Reformed Theology is supposed to be.
@@oracleoftroy Here's why I think using Romans 9 in isolation to bolster a view of unconditional election leads to potentially misconstruing Paul:
In Romans 10 and 11, Paul's outlook toward the hardened Israelites reveals that he's not making them out to be a static number of finally reprobate persons in Romans 9 (the hardened / vessels of wrath). After the cross, the vessels of wrath can now be grafted in if they repent (Romans 11:23).
So it seems more likely to me that he's referring to Israelites who were judicially hardened for a time, as God saw fit, in order to let their rebellion play out for the purpose of accomplishing the cross and providing mercy for all, Jew and gentile.
Whereas the proponent of Calvinism, typically going to Romans 9 to bolster their doctrine of unconditional election, will view those described as hardened and those described as given mercy as the finally reprobate and unconditionally elect, respectively. That doesn't make a lot of sense in light of Paul's appeal to the same hardened individuals in Romans 11, as I referred to above, if they're without hope due to not being part of an unconditionally elect lump of clay in Romans 9.
I think the concept of being chosen by grace is also worthwhile concept to discuss in light of Romans 9-11, as people like me who don't affirm Calvinism would say that being chosen by grace doesn't entail a view of election which is unilateral or unconditional per se, but rather in the overarching context of Paul it can simply refer to being elect by grace through faith. As Paul says, we as believers "obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand" (Romans 5:2). In other words, as long as a person avails to the faith that is in Jesus, which is God's means of mercy after the cross, God sets His seal on them as an individual chosen by His grace, who (according to the plan God decided beforehand) should receive all of the benefits that accompany salvation.
@@jimmygray3452 Thanks. That helps in that you assume I must read those chapters very differently than I do. I sense a bit of confusion between what is true regarding salvation from an ultimate perspective and what is true as salvation plays out in time. Calvinists, as compatibilists, don't see a contradiction between God's will as it pertains to ultimate reality and man's will as they live out their lives in time, though I can see how incompatibilists might have trouble reconciling the two.
I'm not sure how chapter 11 doesn't contradict that view in that Paul's focus is clearly not on Israel as the ethnic descendants of Abraham, but on Israel the people of the promise, of which gentiles were always included. Verse 11: 13 clearly shows Paul is speaking to the Gentiles, and his point is around being grafted into Israel as a wild vine. I don't read this passage as looking at salvation from a timeless perspective, of which it is true that God knows exactly who he is saving, but as salvation plays out in time in covenant with God, and so it makes perfect sense that the number increases as the gospel spreads. What is dynamic when we consider it from one moment of time to another is static when we look at the whole of history from God's perspective.
I don't see chapter 11 as being about election, but the covenant people, a.k.a "true" Israel as it plays out in time. Those covenant promises given to Abraham way back in Gen 17 weren't just to Abraham, but to his children. And not just his children, but to his servants and the rest of his household, even those who were from far off places. All nations were to be blessed through Abraham. We see this throughout the OT; Moses marries a foreign wife, many Egyptians join Israel in the Exodus, even Rahab and Ruth, gentile women in the line of Jesus.
But by the time of the NT, the Israelites seem to have forgotten this and assumed the promise was for ethnic Israel. The NT spends a lot of time correcting this belief, and Romans is no exception. Every chapter has Paul carefully making sure Israelites don't think they get a free pass or exclusive access to God merely for their bloodline, but that the promise is received in faith, not ethnicity. Chapter 11 is where Paul explicitly spells out this idea using the analogy of grafting. In terms of the covenant people, it makes perfect sense and we see people come into the church or leave the church over time. But seeing God's plan of salvation play out in time isn't a refutation that God ultimately knows who is and is not saved.
This might be more a Baptist vs non-Baptist thing rather than a Calvinist vs non-Calvinist thing, as Baptists tend to view salvation as individualistic instead of seeing God work in covenant with believers in a federated way.
1:35 Why would God make people that he just wants to send to hell? Because he just does. Don't you dare question!
This is how cults operate!
so when the Lord created Lucifer he did not know he would become satan?
Then why was Jesus the lamb slain from the foundation of the world?
@@ChaplainBobWalkerBTh God, knowing the future, is not the same as God controlling the future.
God knew what all free-will beings would choose, He didn't make them choose the way they did, but he knew what they'd do.
I'm a molinist.
@@ChaplainBobWalkerBTh From the foundation of the world not before the foundation of the world. Don't be a platonist it's man's logical systematics that change the nature of God.
@@HiVisl isn’t God always in control though?
@@plumber1874 Exodus 33:19, "And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
Deut. 7:6-8, "For thou [art] an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that [are] upon the face of the earth. The LORD did not set his love upon you, nor choose you, because ye were more in number than any people; for ye [were] the fewest of all people: But because the LORD loved you, and because he would keep the oath which he had sworn unto your fathers, hath the LORD brought you out with a mighty hand, and redeemed you out of the house of bondmen, from the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt."
Deut. 10:15, "Only the LORD had a delight in thy fathers to love them, and he chose their seed after them, [even] you above all people, as [it is] this day."
Joshua 11:20, "For it was of the LORD to harden their hearts, that they should come against Israel in battle, that he might destroy them utterly, [and] that they might have no favour, but that he might destroy them, as the LORD commanded Moses."
I Kings 20:42, "And he said unto him, Thus saith the LORD, Because thou hast let go out of [thy] hand a man whom I appointed to utter destruction, therefore thy life shall go for his life, and thy people for his people."
II Chronicles 6:6, "But I have chosen Jerusalem, that my name might be there; and have chosen David to be over my people Israel."
Psalm 33:12, "Blessed [is] the nation whose God [is] the LORD; [and] the people [whom] he hath chosen for his own inheritance."
Psalm 65:4 "Blessed [is the man whom] thou choosest, and causest to approach [unto thee, that] he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, [even] of thy holy temple."
Psalm 78:67-70, "Moreover he refused the tabernacle of Joseph, and chose not the tribe of Ephraim: But chose the tribe of Judah, the mount Zion which he loved. And he built his sanctuary like high [palaces], like the earth, which he hath established forever. He chose David also his servant, and took him from the sheepfolds:"
Psalm 135:4, "For the LORD hath chosen Jacob unto himself, [and] Israel for his peculiar treasure."
Proverbs 16:4, "The LORD hath made all [things] for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil."
Proverbs 21:1, "The king's heart [is] in the hand of the LORD, [as] the rivers of water: he turneth it whithersoever he will."
Isaiah 44:1-2, "Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen: Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, [which] will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.."
Isaiah 45:4, "For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me."
Jeremiah 1:5, "Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations."
Malachi 1:2-3, "I have loved you, saith the LORD. Yet ye say, Wherein hast thou loved us? [Was] not Esau Jacob's brother? saith the LORD: yet I loved Jacob, And I hated Esau, and laid his mountains and his heritage waste for the dragons of the wilderness.."
NT
Matthew 20:16, "So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen.."
Matthew 24:22, 24 "And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened...For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if [it were] possible, they shall deceive the very elect.."
Mark 13:20, 22, 27 "And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days…For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect…And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven."
Luke 8:10, "And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." (Matthew 11:25)
Luke 18:7, "And shall not God avenge his own elect, which cry day and night unto him, though he bear long with them?."
John 10:14-16, "I am the good shepherd, and know my [sheep], and am known of mine. As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep. And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd ...But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you."
John 13:18, "I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me."
John 15:16, "Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you..."
John 15:19, "If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you."
but if you want to believe the anti-christs are the chosen people of the Lord so be it. I believe Christians are the elect chosen of the Lord.
Calvinism is an embarrassment to the Gospel. It takes a handful of verses out of context and turns God into a sadist.
🎯🎯
She has that script down pact!!! Sounds just like I did.
Amen it screwed me up too. I had so much hope before and when I wept for the lost God was showing me He wanted them saved.
Just like my new son in law! He has the script and when I challenges him on a few things he could not answer . He now avoids all conversation on Bible and faith. It seems to me that his faith is just like a thin coating made up by this calvinistic doctrine.
What stunns me is that all calvinists I encoutered are kind of filled with some kind of pride like If They new a secret which we ”normal” christians do not know. You know this pride that comes from ”knowing something the others do not know”…
Sadly I see it in my son in law… My daughter doesn’t think this is a problem…. Sad, so sad…
@@DS-ll5fn "Gnosticism" 101.
Allie is trapped in her presuppositions
pot....meet kettle
@@joshuahyoung4732 HAHAHAHAHAHAH
But she will not talk back to .........John Calvin. Sad, I love Calvinists, but Calvinism is a dark place.
Notice how Allie makes a distinction between Calvinists and Christians... 🤦🏻♂️😂 That should tell you something about how they think...
I know this video is 3 years old, and I'm only halfway through, but her interpretation of Romans (apologies if this is rude/wrong to say) seems to paint God as being incredibly sadistic, cruel and almost psychopathic. And then adding that well - that's just how it is, and you can't question it? That cannot be right.
God rid us of this great leaven in the church.
They use the same argument every time
Pretty dumb arent they?
Calvinism makes Christianity sound so awful... It's a real shame.
Dang.. Allie makes Calvinism sound even more silly than the last time I heard someone try to make it sound legit..LOL
I really like your short videos. You have some really great content but I can't always watch for an hour. Sometimes I speed them up but these are great.
She’s a typical Calvinist ....
Please why does God need to harden people that are already hardened? This is a bit confusing for me
God’s hardening is specifically in terms of strategic hardening through directing their thoughts and actions through their desires and emotions to bring about his will which God does not do to someone unless they have already hardened their own hearts to the gospel.
@@andrhof01 does this not affect their free will in any way?
@@youtubeuser8393 Yes it does, but they chose to harden themselves in the first place thereby relinquishing their freewill so as to be used by God for his purposes.
@@andrhof01 alright thank you
@@youtubeuser8393 Your welcome.
I would really love to see Shapiro interview you, Dr. Flowers!
Calvinism is to have a list of al the people living in a town, sending an invitation to your house to all of them but only telling a few what your name is, where you live and when the party is. ... and then holding responsible those who didn't attend for not attending, when, in fact, you didn't want them to attend at all. It makes so much sense.
Allie is pregnant in that video. What If the baby in her womb is not elected for salvation?
What If God in His soverane Will decided He doesn’t want that child in His heaven? In fact He chose Allie’s baby for destruction...”for Him to be glorified ”...
Wonder If Silly Allie dares to be honest to herself and apply a though to this....
I think every expecting Christian family is well aware that their child might not be saved... Are you a universalist?
I see your point. I am pregnant myself and could not imagine holding to such a doctrine when expecting a child. 😢
This reminds of Matt 23:15, where Jesus said, "woe unto you scribes and pharisees, for ye compassion sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves."
I've had calvinists say that they don't talk about this when witnessing and that this is for discipleship after they are saved. But here she is talking to him about this false doctrine. This makes me angry that there are people foolish enough to tell a lost soul this nonsense. He is already lost, and doesn't need someone to sow bad seed that will cause confusion and seal his fate..
Exactly how does one square becoming twofold the child of hell with unconditional election? If you missed out on election, it doesn't get anymore hopeless and one never could get closer to heaven. Calvinism renders such passages as a mere charade and pointless if unconditional election is true.
She should've just keep her mouth shut. No disrespect intended, but she is just scaring him away by portaying a bad christianity (theology). Seeing how logical and smart Ben is, he will see (probably already seen) how dumb and ridiculous calvinism is.
I don’t want anyone being converted into a false gospel
@The Insufferable Tool Well I sure hope he does know there are other positions, because calvinism is just plain dumb. And ridiculous. I know I always say the same but it's true.
this is why Unconditional Election is the best! I don’t have to worry about scaring anyone away because in the end God will either save them or not and it has nothing to do with what i tell them. God will save whom he wills.
the only thing that’s dumb and ridiculous is people hating on Calvinism when they haven’t even read John Calvins works. John Calvin is the greatest theologian to ever live.
@The Insufferable Tool hahaha yeah that happens quite often.
Would you consider mirroring your videos on Odysee? Would be awesome to see you on a platform that will actually notify me when you upload, rather than require me to happen upon it by chance
These calvinist must go to a school to learn to act cocky and talk in circles.
So instead of hearing the Gospel from Romans 9, as Paul preached it, Ben gets a dose of Calvinistic mumbo jumbo. 🙁
C'mon ABS... Do you really understand what you just said!? It sounds like BS
There's still some people defending Calvinism even after watching this embarrassing take down by Ben Shapiro of Allie Stuckey! LOL
Wait what did you mean about the best Calvinistic sources not believing in double predestination from Romans 9? Calvin believed in double predestination and cited Romans 9 from my understanding.
If God is absolutely sovereign as they claim, He would want His creation to love Him because they CHOSE to love Him because they recognize His sovereignty and they love His mercy, grace, kindness, and compassion. Not because He predestined them to love Him. For a human, that would be like genetically engineering a human being to love you and being happy with that. How is that even possible? These people, man. This isn't about sovereignty at all. I think they've gotten the words sanctify and sanctimony confused, because all I hear is sanctimony. The Calvinistic belief is just a bunch of people trying to outdo each other to prove they're the "elect". It's silly.
Dear Jesus, grant unity to Your Church. Bring us all to the Truth.
Duck and Rabbit....Ive had a Calvinist friend tell me they can only read books by authors their pastor approves of
Wow! Sooooo cult like! Jehovah’s Witnesses aren’t allowed to read “apostate literature” upon penalty of disfellowship!
Allie Beth IS consistent, and acknowledges the absolute sovereignty of God, His right to do as He sees fit.
You guys can argue with Him if you want, but you'll lose every time. Stop trying to impose YOUR idea of how God should be. Humble yourselves before the Judge of all the earth.
Even the Elect ( According to Calvinism ) are Lost until they Hear and Believe the Gospel in this life, to be Saved
Great video Dr. Leighton!
Where do you get the definition of hardening as “strengthen one in their resolve”? Can anyone help me with that?
The Hebrew word used in exodus, chazak
Hello...I hope to help you understand.
The fathers of Israel TURNED away from God.
They removed themselves from the hands of the potter.
By doing this they BECAME vessels of wrath..which they made themselves into by turning away.
They then taught their children their ways which caused their children to become "ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth" because they weren't teaching them the truth...as you know, children PUT their trust in their fathers.
By turning away from God THEY CREATED "unbelieving Israel".
They grew hardened, their ears became dull of hearing, they closed their eyes to the things of God.
They were once soft and mouldable but in their rebelling against the hands of the Potter, the Potter strengthened them in their resolve as a PUNISHMENT for their rebellion against him, and then he sent salvation into the world to provoke them to JEALOUSY that they might humble themselves and TURN back to God and place themselves back into his hands to mold them as he will!
A bit of salvation through faith WITHOUT the works of the law is just enough to provoke JEALOUSY...especially granting salvation to the freakin' HEATHENS 😡!!!
By doing this God has made his power KNOWN...don't mess with the Potter! 😁
He will harden whom he will and he will show mercy on whom he will...and God has made it very clear, that he will show mercy on ANYONE that will humble themselves from their personal thrones and accept the truth...and the truth is that no one is good, no not one, BUT GOD, so the only way to get to him is through faith in HIS righteousness, not ours.
We are able to become "good" IN Christ THROUGH faith...we impute the righteousness of Christ by simply believing the record that God gave of his Son.
If we hear the words..."Christ died for OUR sins", what does that make us?
Answer:
UNRIGHTEOUS SINNERS.
That is what we must make of ourselves before we can move forward and receive the hope of glory in Christ Jesus.
The law was given for the knowledge of sin to MAKE us GUILTY.
Once we are made guilty by the law we become hopeless...the gospel is sent to bring us HOPE so that we may freely receive it! 🤗
It's BRILLIANT...it DESTROYS all possibility of PRIDE!!! 🔨
@@KISStheSON... amen
@@KISStheSON... LOL "heathens" 🤣
That was a good explanation, thank you!
I appreciated this insight. I would consider myself a soft calvinist I guess since I have issues thinking through the doctrines a lot. I think of it like this, everyone who comes to believe is the elect of God, God offers His free gift of salvation to all but ultimately He knows who and who won't come, they are condemned already because of their unbelief. Now that may sound confusing, but that's my current understanding. From what I've observed, in discussions like calvinism vs. arminism we try and get into the mind of God and ultimately it ends in a migraine. It's a bit of a cliche to say "God is higher than us", but it is true. I am still learning about this subject and I enjoy fresh insights like these, but I always come back to the fact that God is all-powerfull and all-knowing, and I'm not. I'll never understand why He does the things He does. I'll never understand His mind. This subject drives me to a place of dependence on God's good character, God's wisdom, and the fact that He will work everything out to His glory. thanks for this video.
John MacArthur is an excellent Bible teacher and I listen to him everyday. When he teaches on the Calvanist doctrine though, tons of questions and problems with known scripture arise. It never fits.
He was asked once about aborted babies and if they go to Heaven. In short, he said yes. But by the Calvanist doctrine, every one of them would have to be the elect. That makes no sense.
We have to agree to disagree with our brethren sometimes.
Think twice about John MacArthur,he is not a good Bible teacher as the following will enlighten you. Christians watching this, some advice! Who and what do you think the false prophets that Jesus warned us about would like and sound like? Would they be wild men, gruff voiced ranting lunitics? Of course not. Satan was described as one of the most beautiful Angels and his servants would be like wise. Serious, soft pleasing voices, wise and articulate. They wouldn't come to the World and preach outrageous lies straight off. They would preach almost truth to deceive even the elect. ( and by elect I mean real Christians that came to Christ) Rat poison is 99 % good food, its that 1% of poison that will destroy you! Look at satans conversation with EVE. He changed only one word of scripture, just one word and caused the fall of mankind. Sproul, Piper, MacAurthur, White, Calvin, Augustine and many others ARE the modern day anti- christs, false teachers, and false prophets. May be you have been fooled by one of them, because they spend a lot of time teaching truths before they come right out and feed you the poison. I am going to print out text right from John Pipers website and ask yourself is this the Jesus we love and follow. Keep in mind if you were to ask any of the men I listed they ALL agree with it. So here is Pipers statement...... This includes-as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem-God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child . . .
@@truth7416 I disagree. I've found his teaching to be accurate, sobering and challenging as it should be. It's Calvanism that I have a problem with. He's given the true gospel regularly. If he were trying to mislead people, he'd be doing a bad job of it.
I've never heard him make any prophecies either so I don't see how the title false prophet could apply to him.
I must point out that I can't just take your words as truth either. What you say also false under the same testing. For all I know, you could be a false teacher trying to mislead me. "Test the spirits to see if they are from God" applies to you as well.
@JChrisTruth146 Attending a conference hardly calls for repentance. The Scribes and Pharisees used to accuse Jesus because He ate with sinners. You shouldn't jump to conclusions and judgement so quickly.
What an excellent breakdown of this clip. Calvinism has saturated churches and is making people look to THEIR WORKS as a proof for their salvation. Our church is dedicated to the clear gospel message. Good work! Prayers from Tampa Bay!
What Calvinist would point to their own works for proof? They just show that I am the chief of sinners and in dire need of a savior. Instead, we point to God's work in us.
"THEIR WORKS"....what?!?! This is actually the utter opposite, 180, night vs. Dark, of what calvanist believe....not to be rude but you just clearly have no idea at all what calvanism is.
All I hear is conflict in her belief. God decides everything and your responsable for Gods decisions. 🤔
Yep. That's where Calvinists must necessarily leave things. They can't make sense of the conflict because it doesn't make sense. They like to fall back on the idea that humans can't understand God's ways. And while I have no doubt that God is far bigger than any of us will ever fully comprehend, to use that as a backstop for why our theology need not be rationally and logically consistent is to open ourselves to all manner of wrongheaded beliefs--including beliefs that even Calvinists wouldn't accept.
AS long as one holds to GOD choosing/electing people to salvation, others to otherwise, and miss that He chooses the would be saved by faith freely, ordaining these saved to Sanctification by his Son, that system collapses in the face of Scripture. The complexity of Calvinism is unimaginable emptiness, and turns from the simplicity of that which is written to a monstrous pile of human wisdom, foolishness unto GOD. Love Allie but disagree.
Romans 9: movement of the election.
Vessels of Wrath: Israel
Vessels of Mercy: Gentiles
Jacob crossed his arms: Ephraim is blessed above his older brother Manasseh.
Jesus: He who is first will be last, he who is last will be first.
So are the vessels of mercy gentiles or is all the clay Jews?
The reason it is a conundrum is because it is self-contradictory and illogical. What that should prompt is not a doubling down on your theory and restating the illogic louder, but an abandoning of it.
Calvinists mis-define "sovereignty" to mean Meticulous Determinism. They use the term for it's rhetorical value and most people hear it and don't get what they're doing. Every believer will accept that God is 'sovereign'... but that does not mean he must control all things at all times simply because he could if he wanted to. By definition a "sovereign" is free to do as he pleases but not obligate to do anything. Lucifer's ability to rebel was no threat to God in Heaven, Adam's ability to rebel was no threat to God in the Garden, and our ability to love and obey, or reject and rebel against God is no threat to his sovereignty today.
This is clear in Gen.4 when God speaks to Cain saying it will go well with him if he chooses 'well' and not so good if he does not. Cain choose poorly, but it was his choice to make. Otherwise, God was lying to him.
jesus also says if you ackowledge me before men i will ackowledge you before them father , if you disown me i will disown you to the father. he even says i am the only way to the father.
Calvinism is against the Bible.
Yes, the gospel is literally GOOD NEWS!
This short video was clear and glorifies God! Praying for calvinists.
I really wanted to hear the rest of what ben had to say.
Guarded Post by You Tube : I have been warned. If I say something Google doesn't like I will get a 24 hour "time out". This TOPIC is thin ice and I have been warned.
Not sure I follow you on this one, Dr Flowers. As I understand it, Paul's epistle to the Romans was written to the Church in Rome. The "vessels of wrath" he's referring to are not his audience. His audience is made up of believers who want to understand why God finds fault with unbelievers whom God predestined to be unbelievers.
Romans 9: 13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid.
15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
Did the apostles choose Jesus or did Jesus chose the apostles?
John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
Read Jeremiah 18 please
Calvinists:
'World' means a small group.
'All' means a handful.
'All people' means some people.
'God is not willing' means God IS willing
'All people, everywhere' means a small group somewhere.
'Choose life' doesn't mean you get a choice.
'He doesn't want anyone to perish' means he wants people to perish.
'The Lord takes no pleasure when the wicked die' means the Lord takes pleasure when wicked people die-he extracts glory (pleasure) from their death.
'Blotting people out of the book of life' doesn't mean they were written in the book of life.
'Branches being broken off due to unbelief' doesn't mean those branches were attached; or that they believed.
'Being cast into the place prepared for the Devil and his angels' means a place created for [you].
'Love is not self-seeking' means love is self-seeking.
@@michaal105 I have and did and Revelation 2:9 “I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.”
Jesus *called* the twelve and they responded. Same as we are called to do, as He calls all of us to be disciples.
@@GratiaPrima_ John 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil?
That's because Romans 9 is Calvinistic. God saves who he wants, and he doesn't need man's permission.
Stuckey just did an interview with Jinger Duggar Vuolo. The Duggar family was in some type of cult. Jinger got out of the cult, met and married a “Reformed” pastor and wrote a book about it. Is getting out of a cult and into Calvinism some version of falling upwards? She’s a sister in Christ but her Calvinist foundations are Manichean dualism.
That dualism is going to eat away at Stuckey and Duggar-Vuolo. Reminds me of Alana L confronting herself about the prospect of teaching her children that they may indeed be damned to Hell and can’t do anything about it.
I know it saddens me that Jinger Dugger has left one cult to join to Calvinism. And to have Allie explaining this doctrine while pregnant just makes my skin crawl. To your example that Alana began to understand how this theology would affect her children.
@@Abby-un4zd Christian Apologist Frank Turek said 5 point Calvinism makes God the author of Evil. He’s absolutely correct. Such a shame. If Calvinists only knew the perfect goodness of God. Evil can’t come from the perfect Goodness of God.
Who made phaorah a Jew? Clearly it was a reference to Phaorah. Explain someone to me because I have no knowledge of why Paul would make a reference to Jews being unhardened if Pharoah, who died, is not a Jew at all
So God did harden an individual’s heart in pharaoh? Or was that okay because It pointed to a bigger picture for Israel?
Jesus love you, he died on the cross for you, accept him as your lord and savior he can change everything. For God so loved the world that he gave his only son, so that everyone who believes in him may not perish but may have eternal life" (Jn 3:16"
But you must repent too. From that time Jesus went about preaching and saying, Let your hearts be turned from sin, for the kingdom of heaven is near. (Matthew 4:17)+
A Calvinist with vocal fry. Can it get worse? 😱
Yes He knows who will and wont choose Him. But He creates us all to choose Him. We re all given that choice. But yes He knows who will go which way....
So you think there are people who seek God and don't harden there hart and after that God rewards them by mercy ? I am confused with your explanations .., and how do you explain this ? as it is written: “There is no righteous person, not even one; There is no one who understands, There is no one who seeks out God; They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, There is not even one.”
Romans 3:10-12
Mark 6:6 says Jesus marveled at their unbelief. Why would He marvel at something He caused to happen? I mean if He created them to be hard and not believe, why marvel at it? Was He surprised that the hardening that He (or the Father) desired worked? This makes no sense to me.
People need to be consistent in their arguments, specially if you are claiming to be wise or smart.
I will again point out that not all Calvinists hold to a hard double predestination viewpoints. Those who hold to a more hard double predestination view generally tend to be higher Calvinists. There is some disagreement within reformed circles regarding the decrees of God. The more mainstream view in these circles is the idea that God is not forcing the sinner's hand in rejecting Him. He is simply leaving them to their fallen will. This idea is referred to as infralapsarianism. Ultimately in this view God (logical order not a chronological order) predestined after the fall. There is much debate over whether Calvin held to a higher view of Calvinism (supralapsarianism). Even your theologians like Berkhoff and even Calvin to a certain extent understood the difficulty of a higher view of Calvinism.. That it could potentially make Him the author of sin. Distinctions are important, because they keep us from straw men arguments. God bless.
The end result is the same whether high calvinist or not. The unelected can't repent period. The high calvinists are just honest enough to admit the obvious. Only good thing about the others is many do not live their calvinism out well because even they realize choices are made.
"...For whom He foreknew, he predestined to be conformed to the image of Christ." God's foreknowledge does not dictate that conclusion. Omniscience of a 'constant drunk driving' does not predestine the accident which is inevitable. It's still a free-will choice. Adam and Eve had a free choice to eat of the forbidden fruit.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 John 10:27-29 Ephesians 1:13 Acts 16:30-31 There over 150 scriptures to believe/trust. Romans 9-11 is Israel.
I find that Arminianism requires you to be a creative genius to interpret the Bible because all of the verses that describe God’s sovereignty have to be nuanced. Everyone needs to step back and acknowledge these truths: (1) God operates outside of space and time, (2) history has already been predetermined, and (3) it is not just that God knows the future, but He also planned every detail. Free will is a human experience that is foreign to God. We have to acknowledge that (unlike God) man lives and makes (or experiences free will) decisions within the confines of space and time, where time always moves forward. We cannot jump into the future to see the outcomes of our decisions, and we cannot go backwards in time to undo bad decisions. We also have flawed understanding of our circumstances and our fleshy desires also affect our decision making. Some argue that we must have free will to love God because otherwise we would be robots that cannot truly love. But this flies in the face of the New Covenant, which we also call the gospel. The New Covenant describes the Holy Spirit changing our hearts to be perfectly aligned with God’s will. If we “delight” ourselves in the Lord, He will give us the desires of our heart. In other words, being filled with the Spirit means that we do whatever we want, but doing what we want is in perfect alignment with God’s will. He uses that to accomplish His purpose. We experience free will, but it is in total conformance with God’s will. That is the only way God can cause all things to work together for good to those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. Heaven will be filled with transformed people whose will is in perfect alignment with God’s will, yet they will experience maximum love and free will. Only God could pull this off. But this is the only way to redeem mankind. People with free will that is not in perfect alignment with God’s will are not allowed into heaven because otherwise they would ruin it... Calvinism is right - from God’s perspective where God is sovereign. Arminianism is right - from man’s perspective where we experience free will in a very practical way. Any belief that we can somehow thwart God’s plan by our free will, even to the most minute detail, is wrong theology. Everything is resolved when we acknowledge that free will is a human experience, limited by space and time, that is foreign to God.
Your third point is unbiblical. Nowhere does the Bible say that He has meticulously planned every detail. This world is filled with evil intents, decisions, and actions, but the Bible says that, "God is light *and in Him is no darkness at all* " 1 john 1:5
God has *nothing* to do with the works of darkness. He did not orchestrate rape to occur, or torturing little babies to death, or the manufacturing and usage of drugs that destroy a person's mind, etc. God sees everything, but that doesn't mean He made a plan for all that to occur. We need to be careful when describing God's sovereignty in a way that takes His sovereignty away. Just because He is sovereign does not mean He engineered every corrupt system or evil action to occur. It means He is free to interact as He wishes to, and the Bible says clearly that He has designed reality in such a way where man is free to make decisions all on his own apart from divine manipulation.
Jesus said,
“O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"
Matthew 23:37
Jesus Himself presupposed libertarian free will many times, yet nowhere do we see Him espouse a calvinistic model of determinism. I think true sovereignty and divine wisdom is being able to carry out your purpose and will amidst the myriad of autonomous choices made by countless individual's who oppose that plan. THAT is what is truly mind-blowing and worthy of utmost esteem and worship. Only God can meet such a standard. Again, He doesn't accomplish His good will *with* evil, He accomplishes it *through it* or in spite of it being there.
Using man's logic God wanted cain to kill abel because if God didn't want abel dead God would have intervened and prevented cain form killing abel. But that's not what the bible teaches, God clearly wanted cain to over come the sin crouching at his door. GOD didn't eternally Sovereignly decree for cain to kill abel even though man's logical systematics says God did.
@@MrMarkovka11 Your response that God is sovereign, but not responsible for evil in the world, diminishes God. Your view tries to understand God from a human perspective, which is a mistake.There are lots of verses that describe God’s total sovereignty in that He not only knows everything that occurs over time, but also planned everything. It’s one of the reasons why we can trust prophecy. The verses in the Bible that describe our free will and responsibility for the decisions we make are from the human perspective, because that is really all we can relate to. We certainly experience free will. I explained in my previous post how in heaven we will be transformed by the Holy Spirit so that our will is perfectly aligned with God’s will and by this, God will cause all things to work for good. That is the only way to restore mankind and create a utopia. Yet, we will still experience total free will and maximum love for God. Take a step back and imagine God as the author of a murder mystery novel with humans as characters in His story. All kinds of evil things could be happening in the story, but that doesn’t make the author evil. The story is written and the characters do not get to change anything about the story, even though when you read the murder mystery and are drawn into the story, it sure feels like there is free will going on. That is because free will is an experience. It is a mistake to diminish God by bringing Him to our level in terms understanding free will. God does not have free will the way we experience it because He operates outside of space and time.
@@utopiamath9070 I'm sorry but I don't want to imagine God as murder mystery author devising evil schemes so that his protagonist will look good in the end. Nope.
@@User_Happy35 You would rather have a diminished view of God who is doing His best, but things just got a little out of control...
Good exegesis of the text. Thank you!
And yet ANOTHER gaping hole in the Swiss Cheese doctrines of calvinism
I agree Kiwi Guy.......God hardened Pharaoh's heart first (Exodus 7:13). Pharaoh doesn't harden his own heart until Exodus 8:15
@Jono showing scripture isn't jumping to conclusions...... Don't go bringing presuppositions to scripture
@Jono I simply pointed out that God hardened pharaoh's heart first. Many people don't know that and don't want to believe that b/c it goes against their theology. But that is in fact what scripture teaches. With the holy spirit you should be able to draw your own conclusion
If you go back to Exodus 3:19, God tells Moses, “But I know that the king of Egypt will not let you go unless a mighty hand forces him." So, to actually be true to the text, Pharoah had already hardened his own heart, and God knew it full well.... He searches the heart and tests the mind (Jer 17:10) God simply strengthened him in that resolve.
@@nedranasekos1118 false.... pharaoh didn't even know about Moses' request yet. He had not yet hardened his heart. God was just explaining that he already knows the future.... (hint hint because he predestined it AND made it be so).
@Jono yes it does.... But you don't want to see it. You don't even want to acknowledge the fact that God hardened pharaoh's heart first. Which was my main point. Many people will ignore facts like these because it goes against their preconceived doctrine.
Calvinism is wrong, Calvin was wrong,... just knowing something is going to happen is not the same thing as making something happen.
With regards to Pharaoh, note that with the first 5 plagues Pharaoh hardened his own heart.
In Genesis when it's talking about hardening Pharaoh's heart.....which takes place first, Pharaoh hardening his own heart or God hardening Pharaoh's heart? Please provide chapter and verse.
Do you mean Exodus? The first verse about hardening is Exodus 4:21. This is when the LORD tells Moses (before he has even gone to Pharaoh) He will harden Pharaoh’s heart so that he won’t let the people go.
@@KD-bn8uq yes sorry, I meant Exodus. And thank you for the exact chapter and verse
@Jono Hi. I don't understand your response. Calvinists believe in God's foreknowledge. The difference between Calvinist and Arminian doctrine on this issue is on what basis does God know all things. The Calvinist bases it in God's decrees. I was just answering Joshua's hardening question. The first instance where hardening is mentioned is in chapter 4. Chapter 3 explains what will happen, but it doesn't explain why it will happen. Proverbs 21:1
@Jono God knows what is going to happen....because He is the one making it happen. No one here is arguing the two are "completely independent".......that's a strawman argument.
@Jono Hi Jono. Can you please explain what you mean by "unconditional reprobation". I have never heard anyone from a Calvinist/Reformed perspective use that term. Actually, I don't think I have ever heard that term until reading it in your post. Unconditional election, on the other hand, is one of the five terms in TULIP.
Best whole review yet.. Romans Chart Lesson by Grace Ambassadors! ;-)>
Holy moley. This is a different God than the biblical God. READ THE WHOLE BIBLE, ALLEY.
Wow! I’m pleasantly surprised she’s a Calvinist!! I once went to a church where the pastor skipped over Romans 9 because it “contains some things people don’t like.” That other dude clearly doesn’t want to accept the clear language in the passage.
Thank you ,Leighton, for bringing such understanding of God’s Word
Its been hard for me to listen to Allie after I realized her beliefs in Calvanism. I agree with her on a lot of big picture things and enjoy a lot of her guest speakers, but knowing what she really believes makes me wonder why she even does her podcast? Its an oxymoron in essence. If she believes that God has already chosen who He will or will not save, seems like she is wasting her time, energy, and breath on trying to influence her audience or the world at large because in her views God has already predetermined the fate of every person. On a pesonal level, I believe Calvanism makes a great mockery of God's love and great rescue plan for all humanity through Jesus life, death, and resurrection, and it's a mockery of the nature and character of God. The god of John Calvin of not the God of the Bible. Also, the historical John Calvin was a rather cruel man who made death threats and advocated for the beheading and burning at the stake those he disagreed with. Clearly this man did not understand the heart of God, so how can you trust any of his theology be trusted?
Calvinism is heretical. Sectarianism in any form will always be wrong
Isn't your post a form of Sectarianism?
What Paul tell us in Romans 9 is crystal clear in the light that there is God’s children and the children of the world or Satan. No need for a special interpretation. Furthermore, God’s children are separated in two. The first one is unrighteous because they don’t know who they are, but if they come to this knowledge, they are righteous by faith. Romans 5:1,2.
Interesting to see this in Jesu’s words about the three types of individuals mentioned in Matthew 25:14-30. The one who ends with four talents will not even have what the last servant start with, five. So the three groups represent 1) the children of the world, 2) God’s children meant to live through the world without receiving enough to realize who they are and 3) the ones who are aware of their true identity.
Group two and thee is mentioned in connection to the resurrection in acts 24:15. The children of the world will never have a resurrection at all. All three is mentioned in Revelation 20:5,6,15.
It is also evident from reading John 17:9,18.
God in His Sovereignty gave man a free will. WE either accept His free gift of eternal life or not. Once we accept we have eternal life. You can not make God a liar. John 6:47 Romans 11:29 For the GIFTS, eternal life, and the calling of God, John 12:32, are without repentance. Irrevocable, can not be changed back. Romans 1:16 The gospel. First Corinthians 15:1-4. That Christ died for our sins, according to the scriptures, that He was buried and rose again on the third day, according to the scriptures.
The second we believe that gospel apart from any works, He imputes His perfect righteousness to us, and will no more impute sin to our account. Ephesians 1:13-14 In whom ye also trusted, after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also AFTER YE BELIEVED, ye were sealed with that Holy Spirit of promise.
John 3:18 Once we believe it we can never be condemned again. Paid in full. Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the Holy Spirit in whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. John 1:12 Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, for it is the POWER of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVETH. First Corinthians 1:21.
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death, physical death, and we all sin, First John 1:8, and we all die, but the GIFT of God is ETERNAL LIFE, through Jesus Christ our Lord. Acts 16:31 Faith alone. Faith is not a work. The GIFT of God is eternal life. Not faith. And not a reward for good behavior, but a free gift. No man can earn it. Romans 11:6 AMAZING GRACE, JESUS PAID IT ALL AND WE PAID 0.
First John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE.
First John 2:2 Christ died for the sins of the whole world. First Timothy 2:4 God is not willing that ANY should perish, but that all come to the knowledge of Christ. John 6:40 And this is the will of Him who sent me, that ALL that seeth the Son, and believeth on Him that sent me, may have everlasting life, and I WILL RAISE HIM UP ON THE LAST DAY.
John 6:29 Jesus, answered, and said unto them, this is the work of God, that ye believe on the one He has sent.
Romans 11:6. AMAZING GRACE, JESUS PAID IT ALL AND WE PAID 0. IT IS FREE, BECAUSE NO ONE CAN PAY THEIR OWN SIN DEBT. Romans 4:5. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Faith alone in Jesus alone apart from works for the free gift of eternal life.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, he that believeth on me HATH EVERLASTING LIFE. PRESENT TENSE. God can not lie. Jesus said it, we believe it, and that settles it. John 3:16-18. Gods word.
Both Calvinism and Arminianism are not John 3:16-18. The doctrines of men are not Gods word.
She is so arrogant
So God doesn't know everything?
God knows everything that is real. God knows the past because He was there. God knows the present because He is here. The future doesn't exist -- it isn't real. God knows His PLANS for the future, but like all plans, those exist in the present. That's why God can change His mind at various points without affecting His plan. For instance, when Israel sinned, God told Moses that He would destroy Israel and make Moses into a great nation. God would have been perfectly right and just to do so. When Moses interceded for Israel, God changed His mind. And He was perfectly right and just to do so. When God told Israel to occupy the Promised Land, they refused. That didn't derail God's plan, He just took them on a forty-year detour -- but He got Israel to His destination, just as He planned.
Please Google molonism
It's sad to see such arrogance on this channel against God's word and Gospel.
Man your twisting of scripture and eisegesis is in another level. Repent and live.
*pat
Why do people have a such hard time with God pre-ordaining even evil? A Christian, of all people, should know that God pre-ordained the murder of the sinless Son of God. That was by far the most evil thing that could ever happen. And yet God used the greatest evil to bring about the greatest good for us, and even more importantly for His own glory. Any other evil is a lesser evil than that, and should be much easier to accept that He uses those as well for our good and His glory. 🙏
But he repaired all the damage of that by raising Christ from the dead, he may pre ordain evil but James White's objection of purposeless evil is perfectly applicable to his own God's hell. God having the power to make those people repent and fix the evil he caused to come into the world and willfully chosing not to.
Question..
Since God knows what you're going to do in the future, can you "change" what God knows by your freewill of action? If that's possible, aren't you more powerful than God and His thoughts? Man's freewill can change what God knows in the future? Man's freewill can override God's foreknowledge?
God can only know what can be known. Once God gave man freewill to choose it can't always be certain. God tells us in a few places that He did not for see what we might choose.
Here are a few examples :
35 They built high places for Baal in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to sacrifice their sons and daughters to Molek, though I never commanded-nor did it enter my mind-that they should do such a detestable thing and so make Judah sin. Jeremiah 32:35
27 God did this so that they would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from any one of us. Acts 17:27
3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. Deuteronomy 13:3
5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. Genesis 6:5-6
9 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed at him, and turning to the crowd following him, he said, “I tell you, I have not found such great faith even in Israel.” 10 Then the men who had been sent returned to the house and found the servant well. Luke 7:9-10
4 Jesus said to them, “A prophet is not without honor except in his own town, among his relatives and in his own home.” 5 He could not do any miracles there, except lay his hands on a few sick people and heal them. 6 He was amazed at their lack of faith. Mark 6:4-7
This in NO WAY diminishes God's sovereignty. Look at it this way. If the Titanic was God's World, He directs its course and destination. The freewill choices the passengers make on the deck can be predicted just as you have a drift of how your kids would react in a given situation. But! You cannot know for sure and that is why I said its clear, God cannot know freewill outcomes totally. God tells us that in the scripture above.
God gave a revelation through His prophet in the 1800's about Pharaoh. Moses originally wrote that Pharaoh hardened his own heart. God didn't harden Pharaoh's heart.
I’m not attacking you, it’s just that you shouldn’t name your RUclips channel soteriology 101. Instead it should be called (soteriology ) since your view has not even been historically held view for one. I personally think you could do better by trying simply to present your view. BTW I’m reformed and that is my view of Romans 9😁
Why would you assume that Leighton could have named his teaching anything other than Soteriology 101, since anything that comes to pass has been ordained of God from eternity past. God willed that Soteriology 101 be called what it is. Or do you subconsciously believe in freewill since that is how reality actually works, everyone is faced with choices every day and the choices we make actually correspond to the reality that we live in. Or maybe God, being a Calvinist just enjoys fooling humanity, making it appear that we are free to pick either strawberry or chocolate ice-cream?
Try living constantly with your Calvinistic beliefs for a month and you will soon discover it is a philosophy that is impossible to hold to on a consistent basis.
Should I be concerned about how you responded to my comment. No . I’m not. However, I never attacked his position, and Calvinist doesn’t see it that way. Maybe if you looked into Calvinism, you wouldn’t misrepresent it like that.
@@ReformedGibberish5881 Okay there Herold, tell how Calvinism sees God's sovereignty. You say Calvinist don't believe that God has decreed from eternity past all that will come to pass. Explain to me how it works.
@@ReformedGibberish5881 “All events whatsoever are governed by the secret counsel of God.”John Calvin (1509-1564) Declares God's Absolute Control of Everything.
@@larrywaddell7332 that’s better 👍
As a "Pelagian Heretic" I fully disavow any and all strains of Calvinism.....If Calvinism is true then the entire exercise of Christian redemption is a sham.....
Leighton you missed by that much.....no where is hope given up. As long as there's breath there's hope. Note the man on the cross....and we don't hear Allie giving up hope for the lost
A non-elect person has no hope whatsoever.
Who is this guy? He's not a theologien because he doesn't represent the Calvinists view or the Armenian view and obviously has no respect for Gods word the way he twist it like a pretzel to make it fit his beliefs. He's intelligent but he is not someone you should be getting your doctrine from.
Man, I respect you videos. I enjoy hearing both sides, but the Bible clearly teaches Gods sovereignty that John Calvin spoke of. I see both sides and don’t try to harmonize it. I can’t, but denying it completely as you and many “non Calvinist” do is just unbiblical. Many parts you stated have many easy comebacks. It can go round and round. Stop denying such a glorious teaching of the Bible.
As usual Leighton will make caricature of the scriptures. Your challenge is exegetical.
IF you are a non Calvinist but you believe that God knew before the Foundation of the World who would go to Heaven and who would go to Hell, then your position is the same as the Calvinist position. You believe in predestination.
Let’s break it down and I will prove it to you.
God knew before the Foundation of the World that if He were to create and bring into existence person X ( call person X, Billy ), that Billy would reject Him and go to Hell.
You claim that Billy has free will and it is Billy’s own free will that takes him to Hell. Are you sure about that ??
Once Billy actually exists in this world can he prove God’s knowledge wrong ( which is, that Billy would reject Him and go to Hell ) by getting saved and becoming a Christian?
Yes or No ?
Note: If Billy can't do other than reject God and go to Hell, then He has no Free Will. If Billy has free will, then God can be proven wrong in His knowledge by Billy getting saved and becoming a Christian ( and can God ever be wrong ? ).