Once Saved Always Saved?
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- Опубликовано: 28 янв 2020
- Dr. Leighton Flowers, Director of Evangelism and Apologetics for Texas Baptists, discusses the controversy of Apostasy -- can someone who was once genuinely justified ever become unjustified? Can someone who was once reborn ever be unborn?
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I Wish Paul would've wrote a book of, "Frequently Asked Questions" 😊
Its called most of the new testament. Our confusion doesnt come from a lack of source material.
It's called The Passion Translation. (Ducks.. jk!)
Calvinism is the belief that God only chooses a few to be saved and they believe faith is a work of God. Romans 4:5 Faith apart from works. Faith is not a work. Well they say, then faith must be a gift from God. Romans 6:23 For the penalty of sin is death but the GIFT of God is eternal life, through Jesus Christ our Lord. The GIFT of God is eternal life. Not faith. First Corinthians 1:18 and First Corinthians 1:21 For after that, by the wisdom of God, the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God, by the foolishness of preaching to save them that BELIEVE. John 6:47. God cannot lie. John 3:18. Believers can never be condemned again. The sin debt is paid in full. First Corinthians 15:1-4.
Romans 3:26-28 For He is the just and the justifier of them that BELIEVE on Jesus. Where is boasting then? (You cannot boast in a free gift that we did nothing for.) It is excluded. By what law? By the law of works? Nay, but by the law of FAITH. Therefore we conclude a man is justified by FAITH apart from the deeds of the Law.
Galatians 2:21 I do not void the grace of God, for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Romans 4:6 As David describeth the blessedness of the man to whom the Lord imputeth righteousness APART FROM WORKS. Blessed is the man whose sins are covered. Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. John 3:18. Acts 16:31. John 6:40. First John 5:13. These thing have I written unto you that BELIEVE on the name of the Son of God, that ye may KNOW YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE. Gods word. John 6:47. God cannot lie. We are all sinners. Romans 3:23. Romans 3:9-10. There is none righteous, no not one. But we have His imputed Righteousness without which no one will see God.
@@jimkraft9445 so how do they live day to day if they don't have FAITH in God?
Second Timothy 2:13. If we believe not, He abideth faithful, He cannot deny Himself. Ephesians 1:13-14. Our guarantee of eternal life when we accepted His free gift. Romans 6:23. Romans 1:16. For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ, (First Corinthians 15:1-4, For it is the POWER of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVETH, to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. Ephesians 4:30. And grieve not the Holy Spirit in whom ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Acts 16:31. The simplicity of the gospel. John 3:18.
It was quite obvious for me. I was sick and realized through His Spirit that my life was terribly sinful. I broke down and cried out to God. Two days later I felt His presence and then the Holy Spirit pouring through me. I was healed and my entire life is focused on Him. Glory to God
Christians can lose their Salvation. Once saved always saved refuted.
Mark 13:22
22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
2 Peter 2:20-21
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Revelation 3:16
16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
But why. Was it your free will?
@@user-uo3pb3rr4f Conviction from the Holy Spirit creates a sense of guilt about what you have done. You then freely ask God to forgive you, and “If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.” ~ 1 John 1:9
We are not the ones who do the cleansing, we do not bring the conviction, but we DO respond in faith and ask to be healed, and in turn God promises in his word that he will.
@@user-uo3pb3rr4f NO NOT at ALL.
Our free will is CORRUPT
@@Over-for-now Cain and Abel were both fallen men, but one responded to God correctly and the other incorrectly. How could Abel respond correctly to God if his nature is fully corrupt as you understand?
Having been a devout Catholic my whole life, I became an Evangelical. My former friends view it as abandoning the faith, whereas in my heart, God has called me to understand His Word so much better. In my earlier life, I followed the church, whereas now, God's Word is the final authority.
I went through twelve God forsaken years of Catholic school, they are devil.
@barrypatrickius You went through a school of the Vatican II sect, not the Catholic Church. The Vatican II sect is just another Protestant "denomination."
@@j.knight9335 pre Vatican ll Catholic church is even more satanic than post Vatican ll Catholic church which is very evil.
@@barrypatrickiusWhere was your protestant religion in say, a.d. 500? Answer the question. Try not to deflect.
Only now? His word wasn't the ultimate authority before? Sounds as if you might be stupid.
How do we lose the eternal LIFE that God gives us when we ARE saved?
It's ALL about HIM --- NOT us.
It's HIS salvation that HE gives as a gift
I cannot walk away from HIS work that HE says it's FINISHED. Thank you Jesus
A cousin of mine fell away from the faith and ended up joining a sketchy ungodly cult but, he returned to Christ eventually and he said he's never going to leave again. I believe he's saved.
Ask him if he actually believed Jesus raised from the dead originally? if no then he was never saved originally.
πιστεύω is the key word to understand this issue. Speaking as someone who thought he believed in Christ as a youth and later believed very Antichrist things, I wasn’t actually saved when I was young because I had not committed myself to πιστεύω in Christ yet. This Greek word is generally translated as “believe” like in John 3:16, but what we generally don’t understand before we get saved, you’re not being asked to believe in a way that you yourself see fit. You’re actually being asked to commit yourself to absolute trust in Christ. If you truly πιστεύω in Jesus Christ then you will receive the Holy Spirit and be sealed unto the day of salvation, the nuance is trusting in the way Jesus actually asked of us which will mean we are willing to die for the gospel truth if necessary. I didn’t understand the difference until I was 33 and received the Holy Spirit. I had true trust in Christ after hearing the gospel of Matthew on audio on that day, when I was young I still had a future where I could break and thusly I had not yet committed myself to πιστεύω in Christ as I was instructed. We need to believe like the Bible asks, after that we are in the father’s hand and no one can remove us.
GOD Bless! ❤️
@@Sam-fp8zm The nuance there is he still had to believe in the Christ of the gospels and not of his own reckoning or that of the world. That’s the only nuance Paul gave us in the gospel when he spoke of trusting in a different spirit other than the one he and the other apostles taught. We can still trust a false Christ even when we believe the resurrection occurred, look at Roman Catholics as an example of what I’m saying.
GOD Bless! ❤️
@@narrowistheway77 yeh nar as soon as someone believes Jesus died for mans sins and rose from the dead they are saved forever. Judas never believed from the beginning jesus said so he was never saved.
@@RoyceVanBlaricome I didn’t fumble anything, and you’re actually causing division where none is necessary. I only spoke the Biblical truth and perhaps you need more Bible study to understand what I was actually saying because it has no conflict with the gospel you preached but rather clarified it which Paul himself did numerous times. This isn’t about works or leaven, it’s about making sure neither have been added to the salvation found in Christ. The New Testament was written in Greek because GOD wanted you to understand it as it was written Royce. Sometimes translations lose certain nuances and this is why many people fail to truly believe in Christ as intended whilst others believe the way they were asked without any further explanation because they had faith as intended.
For instance Roman Catholics believe in the Christ of their own imagination, they get many things right but they’ve added leaven, idolatry, and a different spirit under the name of Christ to their gospel and thusly are not saved by believing Christ died and was raised to life because their Christ is not Christ. This nuance matters a lot Royce and in truth you already know this but possibly needed examples to understand it.
Paul clarifies that the spirit behind the name of Christ is extremely important in Galatians 1 and that you better be sure to trust in the Christ that they preached in order to be saved. Your “Faith” and being under “Grace” literally depends on this. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 is a great passage to understand why so many Pastors are steering their flocks to the flames without showing them the true gospel and teaching the true spirit behind the name of Christ. The Bible even in English gives you a lot of elaborate passages to explain exactly what I said above.
Faith means you πιστεύω in Christ Royce. Specifically it means you trust in the correct spirit behind the name of Jesus Christ and not a false one. Clarifying the gospel is a healthy thing to do for others because so many trust that a Jesus of their own imagination saved them rather than the Christ that is written in the Bible itself. Explaining this leads many to read their Bible and truly know Jesus Christ for the first time and be saved through that faith in Jesus Christ as his prophets told of him.
The only spirit of Christ that saves is the spirit of Christ given by the prophets. Even Jesus clarified that more than once if you read the gospels diligently. If I believe in a Jesus I’m more comfortable with and believe that Jesus of my imagination rose to life and died for my sins rather than the Christ of scripture then I’ve believed wrongly because I did not πιστεύω in Jesus Christ. These are the foolish virgins who do not keep oil in their lamps. Are we trying to plant seeds for the birds to eat Royce? Seeds cast into thorns to be choked? Seeds onto rocky soil so their roots can be choked? No! We want seeds planted in healthy soil and we need to be good gardeners for the LORD to make sure those seeds grow into a healthy harvest without Satan’s deceptions fooling them into a false gospel. You need to recognize that almost every false gospel still includes the 1 Corinthians 15 gospel. The leaven that destroys the gospel is always subtle because the serpent is more subtle than any other beast of the field.
I’ll pray for you! GOD Bless! ❤️
Finally! It’s nice to hear someone echo the same thing. We fight and divide over semantics, verbiage, wording., and phrases. I’ve been saying this for quite some time now. Thank you sir!
Thanks Brother, you have clarified many issues that I have been struggling with for years!
Easily the BEST commentary I've ever heard on this topic. Thanks again Dr Flowers!
Thank you for sharing this study it has been a blessing for me to hear and receive more clarity on the topic of salvation. It truly means a lot and I appreciate your heart and humility. God bless you!
Christians can lose their Salvation. Once saved always saved refuted.
Mark 13:22
22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
2 Peter 2:20-21
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Revelation 3:16
16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
If you are TRULY born again, you will never TRULY fall away......OSAS for life, bro !!!!!!
Was Peter born again before crucifixion?
@@thomasjefferson5727 OK. YES
@@thomasjefferson5727 I'm talking about post crucifixion
@@thomasjefferson5727 Just like everyone in Hebrews 11. SALVATION HAS ALWAYS WORKED THE SAME.......I'm surprised by such a shallow response from you...?
@@ObiDaveKenobi5587 So when Peter denied Christ, did he fall away?
Finally! Great BIBLICAL teaching on Soteriology. Thanks so much Dr. Flowers.
Jesus said, "Whoever believe in Me shall have rivers of living water bubbling up inside." Do you have that? If not, then you are not saved! Christ died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
@@kenshilohWhat a dumb statement. Did you read more than one page? You think like a charismatic, and they don't understand the Bible very much at all. Just look at that idiot Copeland.
@@kenshilohChristians can lose their Salvation. Once saved always saved refuted.
Mark 13:22
22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
2 Peter 2:20-21
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Revelation 3:16
16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
@@kenshilohwhere did Jesus say that
@@tomtemple69 John 7.38. Referring to the Holy Spirit, Jesus said, "Whoever believes in Me shall have rivers of living water bubbing up inside of him." Does it shock you, as it does me, that so many Christians seem to shrug their shoulders and say, "Whatever that means!" However, the contrapositive of this saying is, "If you do not have rivers of living water, neither do you believe in Christ." The Holy Spirit, Who is like rivers of living water, is essential to salvation!
The sole criteria of whether someone makes it to heaven or not is if they know Christ. He died on a Cross so that we may know Him. Jesus Christ is the light of the world.
The wisest pastor I've ever listened to is pastor poomen from India. Incredible man of God.
Zac Poonen is his full name, i think.
The issue I find most Christians have when I state I don't believe in osas, is that they think about a believer randomly loosing their salvation, due to sinning, backsliding etc, when that is not what I mean, for me and I believe many others who do not hold to the osas belief, we mean that one can reject their salvation, choose to walk away from it. Getting their names blotted out. They choose to simply walk away from the faith.
This is exactly how I see it. You cannot lose it as you never earned it, but you can reject it and walk away. Thanks so much for aptly saying what my mind was thinking
@@DonieleEdwards you are welcome :)
Agreed! You cannot lose something you could never earn to begin with. However you can reject a gift after it was given. Apostasy is walking away. But can you walk away from something you never walked with??? Like can you give away something you never recieved 🤔. I love listening to Leighton, but I don't think he did well on this or made anything less confusing.
OSAS adherents always seem to have trouble disassociating themselves from "leaving = losing." I'd like to see Dr. Flowers and Dr. Pritchett debate this topic.
WHO WE ARE IN CHRIST:
We are redeemed (Gal 3:13)
We are new creatures (2Cor 5:17)
We are called to be saints (Rom 1:7)
We are accepted in the beloved (Eph 1:6)
We have the forgiveness of sins (Eph 1:7)
We are more than conquerors (Rom 8:37)
We are Ambassadors for Christ (2Cor 5:20)
We are justified freely by his grace (Rom 3:24)
We are the temple of the living God (2Cor 6:16)
We have redemption through his blood (Eph 1:7)
We have now received the atonement (Rom 5:11)
We are free from the law of sin and death (Rom 8:2)
We are sons and heirs of God through Christ (Gal 4:7)
We have been given the ministry of reconciliation (2Cor 5:18)
We are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ (2Cor 3:3)
We are not our own, for we are bought with a price
(1Cor 6:19-20)
We are not far but now made nigh by the blood of Christ
(Eph 2:13)
We are sealed by the Holy Spirit unto the day of redemption (Eph 4:30)
We can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth us
(Php 4:13)
We are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God (Col 2:12)
We are justified by faith without the deeds of the law
(Rom 3:28)
We are justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him (Rom 5:9)
We are to endure hardness, as a good soldier of the Lord Jesus Christ (2Tim 2:3)
We are to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery (Eph 3:9)
We are presented holy, unblameable and unreproveable in his sight (Col 1:22)
We are blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ (Eph 1:3)
We are justified by his grace, and made heirs according to the hope of eternal life (Titus 3:7)
We are to wait for the Lord Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come (1Th 1:10)
We are confident that he which hath begun a good work in us will perform it (Php 1:6)
We are saved by grace through faith and not of works lest any man should boast (Eph 2:8)
We are crucified with Christ: nevertheless we live; yet not us, but Christ liveth in us (Gal 2:20)
We are workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth (2Tim 2:15)
We are washed, sanctified, and justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God (1Cor 6:11)
We are looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; (Titus 2:13)
We are persuaded that nothing shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ (Rom 8:38-39)
We are justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified
(Gal 2:16)
But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ (1Cor 15:57)
And Ye Are Complete in Him (Col 2:10)
Those who teach we can loose our Salvation are LIARS!!!!
I cannot leave the gift of God. I cannot lose the wonderful finished and COMPLETED work for me of Jesus
Where does the bible say you can't leave the gift?
The Bible says we are sealed until the day of the redemption of our bodies. If a person isn't saved, they're bodies will not be redeemed, so this is clearly teaching osas.
Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.
@@carstontoedter1333 THE FINISHED work of the Lord Jesus Christ shows THAT we CANNOT lose it. HE completely paid my entire sin debt
No one knows for sure whether he is saved or not until the judgment. Because if one fails to persevere until the end (Matt 24:13), he will not be saved. That's why St. Paul said in 1 Cor 9:27, "I chastise my body and bring it into subjection, lest perhaps, after I have preached to others, I myself should become a reprobate." St. Paul, an Apostle, was concerned about the possibility of losing his salvation, thus proving that 'Once Saved, Always Saved', 'Faith alone", or 'Predestined" is a complete lie from Hell, and that the salvation requires a great efforts on our part to truly live according to Our Lord's Commandments of Love and observing All He commanded as taught by His One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church (Matt 28:20), so that we may be transformed into the True Image and Likeness of Christ (Rom 8:29, 2 Cor 3:18); because, we are judged, not by Faith, but according to our deeds and works (Rev 20:13, 22:12. Matt 25:31-46), as only those who OBSERVE All the teachings and persevere to the end (Matt 24:13) are justified (Rom 2:13).
@@carstontoedter1333Ephesians 1, Ephesians 4, the Holy Spirit seals us to the last day
Brother Leighton, thank you for your kind and Christ like approach to this topic.
I have immense respect for both you and Brown, but I find it difficult to to find those who will present the topic with grace.
I personally had an experience that led me to search this subject out, and am compelled to avoid apostasy with every fiber of my being.
All those years banging on the door of predestination, and you cleared it up in 3 minutes thanks
Jesus did all the work, we must believe this to be saved.
Amen!
amen
humans forcing themselves oin God on youtube... not a good source for accuracy!
1 Corinthians 15 : 1 - 4 KJV bible ......AMEN........m c
@@uncasunga1800 ?
What does that mean you don’t pick up your cross? That Jesus will pick up that cross for you? Cause that’s not how that verse goes
No such thing as once saved always saved, it's clearly unbiblical.... Now if you're saved, and struggling with sin, and you stray a bit, that's not blaspheming the Holy Spirit.... If you're saved, and you WILLINGLY walk back over into the world, THAT is.... As Jesus said multiple times, "IF you remain in me!" Can't remain if you're not already there....
Amen.
That was a BRILLIANT video Dr Flowers!!!
The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. Though he fall, he shall not be utterly cast down: for the LORD upholdeth him with his hand. Psalms 37:23-24.
There's a difference in falling out of weakness and deliberately walking away from the LORD. God helps those who fall out of weakness. If He didn't, none of us would make it. But the Bible warns us plainly about departing from the living God and against sinning willfully. Hebrews contains many such warnings.
@@bobbyadkins6983 have you ever told a lie after your conversion ?
@@user-jy5qm8nc9m falling into sin is not departing from God. You depart from Him when you live after the flesh. For as it says in Titus Professing they know God but by their deeds they deny Him. Believing in Jesus means you follow Him. He is not going to force you to live (key word, live) after the Spirit or after the Flesh. Calvinism makes the commandments of God of no effect for when God's word says Fear God, Love God with all your heart, they would like you to believe it is God who will do it for you else you are "working" for salvation, which is not the case.
If that were true, if i am working for my salvation if i confess my sins to God and obey what the Holy Spirit tells me, then there would be no need for Jesus to give us the warning "Let no man take thy crown". You see, Calvinism takes away the incentive to keep God's words thinking that God will keep it for you because of their denial of free will.
Are the steps of the wicked man equally ordained by God?
Only God knows what a good man is. The man described in this psalm falls in the 2 categories mentioned in the vídeo.
I always admire your graciousness and clarity. I’d love to see you chat with Trent Horn one day. You are both bright and irenic and full of the love of Christ. Peace!
You cannot lose salvation. Sound doctrine.
Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:-1 Corinthians 15:1-4
Incline your ear, and come unto me: hear, and your soul shall live; and I will make an everlasting covenant with you, even the sure mercies of David.-Isaiah 55:3
Instead of the thorn shall come up the fir tree, and instead of the brier shall come up the myrtle tree: and it shall be to the Lord for a name, for an everlasting sign that shall not be cut off.-Isaiah 55:13
And as concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he said on this wise, I will give you the sure mercies of David.-Acts 13:34
Be it known unto you therefore, men and brethren, that through this Man is preached unto you the forgiveness of sins: And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.-Acts 13:38-39
And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst. But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not. All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out. For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.-John 6:35-40
Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.-John 20:29
Believe on Him and love one another. Do unto others as you have them do unto you. As you sow so shall you reap in this life and the next. The law is established by grace and made void by the precepts of men that deny His testimonies of tender mercy.
But what think ye? A certain man had two sons; and he came to the first, and said, Son, go work to day in my vineyard. He answered and said, I will not: but afterward he repented, and went. And he came to the second, and said likewise. And he answered and said, I go, sir: and went not. Whether of them twain did the will of his father? They say unto him, The first. Jesus saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That the publicans and the harlots go into the kingdom of God before you.-Mathew 21:28-31
Let your yes be a yes and your no a no. Dead faith is simply cold. They have done what is their duty to do. Hot faith is perfected by works and the lukewarm is the first son who denies Him and His testimony and so He denies them by spitting them out of His mouth. He never knew them. The will of the Father is that He should lose nothing.
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.-John 3:16
Now the God of peace, that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus, that great shepherd of the sheep, through the blood of the everlasting covenant,-Hebrews 13:20
I think if he had a conversation with Trent Horn it would be worth watching!
Even Trent Horn is a heretic , i do think it would be a good convo.
@@JR-yj8ig none of those show you cant lose your salvation
@@fredarroyo7429 Once God blots you out that’s it. There is no reproving a reprobate mind it is then impossible to for them to be restored to repentance which is to turn from the power of sin to the power of God. Blessed are they who do hunger and thirst for righteousness for they shall be filled. And Jesus said I am the bread of life he believes on Me shall never hunger and never thirst. That’s Christ teaching imputed righteousness and that never runs out.
As always, so full of grace and love. Thank you brother Leighton.
Christians can lose their Salvation. Once saved always saved refuted.
Mark 13:22
22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
2 Peter 2:20-21
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Revelation 3:16
16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
I want my kids and dad to be saved, and at one point in their lives they did believe, but the world tainted their beliefs and they all walked away. God is full of mercy and grace and I hope and pray daily that they turn back to Him one day.
Christians can lose their Salvation. Once saved always saved refuted.
Mark 13:22
22 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.
Hebrews 10:26-27
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
2 Peter 2:20-21
20 For if, after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the latter end is worse for them than the beginning. 21 For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered to them.
Hebrews 6:4-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
Revelation 3:16
16 So then, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will vomit you out of My mouth.
Matthew 25:41-46
41 “Then He will also say to those on the left hand, ‘Depart from Me, you cursed, into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels: 42 for I was hungry and you gave Me no food; I was thirsty and you gave Me no drink; 43 I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, naked and you did not clothe Me, sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’
44 “Then they also will answer Him, saying, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’ 45 Then He will answer them, saying, ‘Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to Me.’ 46 And these will go away into everlasting punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”
Because believing and having faith is a choice we have, one can fall away. However, some fall away because they were never really converted, or regenerated in the first place. Those who were regenerated, but still fall away, it'll be worse for those folks.
@AVB2 Having faith is a choice. God may have predestined some to be born into a Christian upbringing, but we still have the choice to accept or reject. Beyond that God most definitely did not predestine anybody to he saved. That is not biblical. Why send us down to this earth if our fate was already decided? Why then are we here? We're here to experience life, to learn and grow. We're here to be tested wether we will choose right or wrong. Thats why evil exists, because God will not take away ones free agency even to protect the weak an innocent. Free will is essential to the plan of salvation.
Soteriology is such an important subject! Thank you Dr. Flowers for the video and for the channel!
Seminary school, ( I call it Cemetary school) can sometimes ruin sincere individuals seeking the knowledge of Christ. There they are often taught the philosophy and doctrines of men. They often enroll in order to enter the ministry and sometimes come out unbelievers. God calls and makes preachers not seminary schools.
This is true yes
true esp wackjob bob jones
What does "disciple" mean? You can't be a good teacher without being a student first and foremost. :)
Don’t paint with too broad a brush. Some of us were called and went to great seminaries with gifted godly professors. Our experience deepened our knowledge of God and deepened our intimacy with Him. I used to say the same thing until God directed me to go deeper using seminary as a means to seek Him more.
best Bible college is BED SIDE Bible college
Great presentation. Tons of great points.
One Savior Alone Saves
Recently I asked the question to some people "When someone is saved , what is saved?" The idea was to help realize the transformation they experience as they follow Jesus. Then I asked them the question, "What is not saved?"
You are saved from the wrath of God against sin.
Since we have now been justified by his blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through him!
Romans 5:9 NIV
@@elunico13 By question to you is how do you understand God's wrath?
@@caleschnell I try to stick to the scriptures to understand it. How about you my friend?
@@elunico13 Of course. My question to you is how do you understand what Paul states concerning God's wrath in Romans chap. 1?
Reading Scripture is one thing-reasoning out what it says is another.
1But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. 2And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. 3And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.
4For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;
The Godly will Be Delivered
7And delivered just Lot, vexed with the filthy conversation of the wicked: 8(For that righteous man dwelling among them, in seeing and hearing, vexed his righteous soul from day to day with their unlawful deeds;) 9The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
Profane and Blasphemous Seducers
10But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. 11Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption; 13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you; 14Having eyes full of adultery, and that cannot cease from sin; beguiling unstable souls: an heart they have exercised with covetous practices; cursed children: 15Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness; 16But was rebuked for his iniquity: the dumb ass speaking with man's voice forbad the madness of the prophet.
17These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever. 18For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error. 19While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage. 20For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. 21For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them. 22But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.
KJV
Referring to Minute 32 - I just think that when he says "let them be cursed" in Galatians that's not the statement of simply correcting an error, that's a very strong statement of condemnation. He never says anything that strong even to the Corinthians. That sounds like he considered they were truly in danger of forfeiting their salvation and going from a place of being blessed to a place of being cursed. I just feel like those who believe in the perseverance of the saints minimize warning statements in Galatians and Hebrews. They make them less dire and or hypothetical.
Only got the opportunity to view your video now Dr Flowers, but I agree with you on every point made. Thank you for blessing the body of Christ with sound doctrine. I've heard a sermon by Pastor Joe Schimmel from Blessed Hope Chapel and he has a similar teaching. Extremely blessed by listening to the two of you teach on this.
May God continue to richly bless and use this ministry for His Glory, amen 🙏
1 Corinthians 6:20
For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.
We were bought with a price. What price? What price did God pay for us? How much did God pay to redeem us from the god of this world? How much does he value us? God took the one thing he had that was priceless, beyond value, his son, and that was the price he paid for us. If how much we are willing to pay for something determines its value, how much then are we worth? If you're not sure how much you're worth, take a look at the price tag on you.
God paid for us with his own son. He gave his only child to the devil to die the most horrendous and tortuous death ever experienced by any human being in the history of the world so that we could be raised from the dead and have eternal life.
Are we valuable? How valuable are your children to you? To God, we are priceless. Of all God has, we are his most valuable possessions.
Romans 8:37-39
Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Do you think there is anything that can take us away from God? Do you think there is a price God would sell us for? We are priceless, beyond value, beyond cost. There is no price that can separate us from this love of God. There is nothing the devil can do to take us away from God.
Knowing all this, we now have choices to make here. Are we going to believe the world's opinion of our value, or God's? See, that depends on us. If we spend our whole time watching television, playing computer games, watching movies, and reading newspapers and magazines, our perceptions of our own worth are going to reflect the god of this world's opinion of our worth, which isn't very much. However, if we keep our hearts and minds in God's word, our perceptions of our own worth will reflect our true value.
The world looks out at the universe, shows us how big it is, and tells us we amount to nothing. The bible looks out at the universe, shows us how big it is, and tells us that we are the only reason it is there. One viewpoint is a lie, while the other is the truth. What we look at is what we will believe and become.
2 Corinthians 3:18
But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
A glass is a mirror. As we look into the bible, we see the glory of God reflected from its pages and if we keep our focus there, we will be changed into that same image. If we hold our minds in the world, then that's what we will reflect in our hearts and lives. Where we keep our thoughts is up to us. It's a choice we make.
God paid a high price for us. Jesus Christ was the price that was paid to redeem us from death so we could freely enjoy eternal life. Do you know what eternal life really is? It is being born again of God's seed and becoming his child.
1 Peter 1:23
Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
This isn't make believe, this isn't Aesop's fables, this isn't a myth or a fairy tale, this is the truth - we literally are born of God's seed, incorruptible seed. We are his children, he did pay that price for us, and he did redeem us from the devil and death.
Galatians 4:6,7
And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.
Let God be the Judge amen
He already is/was/AM
Turn away from sins and have faith IN JESUS CHRIST TO BE SAVED AND THE LORD WILL CHANGE YOUR HEART TO LOVE RIGHTEOUSNESS! AND BELIEVE JESUS DIED AND ROSE FROM THE DEAD TO SAVE YOU!
Way to many warnings of falling away and blotted out disqualified, to many about being found unworthy or broken off and cast into Fire... I can’t turn more than a couple pages without warnings to remain in Christ
Amen
If you scroll down suggested vids, you will get Allan and Flowers on this, also a great video
We're all wretched sinners, for if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? 1 Peter 4:19
12 Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.
James 1:12
12 ¶ Take heed, BRETHREN, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING FROM the living God.
13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we are made partakers of Christ, "IF" we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast UNTO THE END. Hebrews 3:12-14
Sounds crystal clear to me.
the crown of life is a reward not salvation
The key words are any of you with an evil heart,, this means not having a NEW HEART, not being born again , a new heart IS NOT EVIL So if you are born again you do not have an evil heart anymore. It’s a new heart or Spirit , a new creature OSAS
I used to think OSAS, but all the warnings to make stay in the vine, and warnings about being cut off and cast into the fire make men rethink that very much.
The issue in John 15 is not the branch staying in the vine, but whether the life of the vine is in the branch. A withered branch is one grafted into the vine, but withers with absolutely no fruit. Jesus stated, "Apart from me you can do nothing". Thus, these branches were apart from him, not possessing the Holy Spirit, which was described in the preceding chapter, and the following chapter. If one recieves the word of God, but rejects the vitality needed for the word of God to bring forth life (salvation), then they will ultimately wither away, be rejected, and thrown in the fire (never knowing Christ). But it is assured that those branches bearing fruit, who possess life, will never be cut off, for they have been accepted by the Father.
@@eternalsecurityofthesaints9581 I also wonder if we can think of this as the visible church has many branches grafted (physical water baptism) into the Body of Christ, but in reality they are without regeneration so they do not partake of the Spirit and eternal life.
@@christianmama2441 Interesting you said this, since I recently uploaded a sermon on my profile dealing with this exact issue, entitled "Belief plus Baptism Saves" (not dealing with water baptism of course).
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Amen Dr Flowers!!! Great video! ❤
I believe the same way that you do . The bible mentions outer darkness13 times and it opens so many questions of people remaining outside of the walls and gates of heaven who were justified by Faith and left the faith.
I agree with this. I've been trying to explain it this way to people. Thank you for making this video!
Flowers, I agree with most of what you say but you are holding on to your Baptist belief here that contradicts everything else you preach.
Flowers, this teaching is dangerous. A wife leaves her husband when he cheats and puts his love in another. You are saying they never had love. This is dangerous and you are leaving out thousands of verses that teach the opposite of this. You and Michael Brown should have a debate on this because you are looking at your pet verses while he is evaluating all the scriptures old and new. I was surprised to learn that you were a OSAS advocate.
Adam Phillips
I don't think he's saying he believes in "OSAS" exactly. Maybe I'll need to watch it again though.
I’m a OSAS Believer, so I appreciate this video
The Church I grew with which in many ways that helped shape my thinking in soteriology always taught that Armininanism (and) Calvinism are "both" wrong. I do like this though like he said the "semantics", are a bit different. I am a (zero) point Calvinist we always taught that these 3 categories of people are 1. Spiritual (those who are disciples and bear fruit by abiding in the vine and reliance upon the Spirit of God for daily living) 2. Carnal (those who walk by means and power of the fleshly mind and refuse to yield to the convictions of the Spirit - grieve and quench Him) 3. Unsaved. (Don't trust the death burial and resurrection of Christ for an on their behalf - they're either religious or atheist but do not place their trust in Christ "alone") either they don't believe at all or they mix grace and works
All I know... is you CANNOT BE UNBORN or "un" indwelt by God's Holy Spirit. "Some" Armininan's believe if you don't persevere you were lost (unbiblical) the Calvinist believes if you don't persevere you never had it (unbiblical) both are wrong...
You're either saved... or lost! "If" you are saved? You're either Spiritual or Carnal.
Carnality manifests itself in 3 ways. 1. Legalism (is the mental attitude or false belief which seeks to "earn" or "deserve" the blessings of God "by" religious rituals, good works, for "either" salvation or "for the believer" sanctification) 2. Licentiousness (Obviously this belief goes something like this: well, I'm saved no matter what I do so let's sin it up that grace may abound - see Rom 6) 3. Mysticism (usually based totally on feelings, premonitions, or false revelations that are from the carnal mind or directly from the whispers of evil forces)
But yes... "once saved always saved" it happens at a point of time with abiding results Eph 2:8-9 is in the PERFECT tense, PASSIVE voice and INDICATIVE mood: Perfect point in the past, passive it was done onto me meaning the gifts are grace and salvation (NOT FAITH) and indicative which means it's a FACT to be reckoned... so yes, once saved "ALWAYS" saved and that happens the "moment",,, you believe Eph 1:13-14
Eternal life in John 3:16 means ETERNAL
Good word here, Bro Leighton. Just as when I've taken one of my three children, or now my grandson, across a busy street, their safety is never based on their grip on my hand. Though they may have a grip on my hand, their safety has always been based on my grip on their hand.
From the moment of truly repenting and receiving Jesus by faith, we are safe in His hands. That is how we can praise Him. Otherwise, we will eventually "praise Him" with the view towards, and the thinking that, if I stop, He will stop. We fall into a "works out of fear" relationship. And I'm speaking of a saved individual. Falling "from grace" back into a "works out of fear" of losing Him. And that is never peace, or love, and no joy in Him.
Thanks brother, ain't Jesus good. As He said, "It is finished".☝️
The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. (Proverbs 3:10). It’s the whole duty of man, by keeping His commandments (Ecclesiastes 12:13). Jesus said fear Him who can cast body and soul into hell (Luke 12:5). The apostles and even the early church fathers exhorted each other constantly to live in obedience and fear of God, which produces godly repentance, which grants access to unmerited grace for life (2 Corinthians 7:10) for those who love Him. In fact, fearing Him by keeping commandments in Ecclesiastes 12:13 is echoed by Christ in John 14:15 as love. It’s that fear that drives us to Him, and He welcomes us with open arms. It’s that fear of crossing the road that causes us to reach for the hand that He snatches us out of the fire with (Jude 23).
Awesome teaching
No one can snatch you from my Father's hand says nothing about us jumping out of that hand...
No one includes you or me! John 10:27-30 is quite possibly my favorite verse, as it lets me know that now that I belong to Christ, not even I can mess it up. Those who leave the faith never had saving faith, but were false converts.
When you are in his hands you are eternally his.
no one would mean you
CAN THE HOLY SPIRIT SEAL ON THE PERSON HE REDEEMED BE BROKEN? YES OR NO
No! I would say the seal of his blood and the corresponding promise of eternal life is unbreakable over the “whosoever believes" part of that and Jesus will get us across the finish line . It's the "working that out in fear and trembling" and "daily taking up our crosses" part I'm not sure of. The order of our salvation is Spirit, soul and body, just as in the fall in the garden; if you eat of the wrong tree in the midst of the garden ye shall surely die didn't begin with a bodily death, it began with the image of God in man dying in us which corrupted the soul and led to premature death of the body. But Jesus as the second Adam, restored what only he could do (apart from the works of man) and was resurrected and restored the image of God in man, removing the barrier of separation and the Angel who stood between us and the tree of life and sealing us for eternity with the blood over the door post of our hearts. Now we are in that portion which is the salvation of our souls and we all who have believed have the continuing choice to believe and obey all of those "works" created for us to do in Christ Jesus long before amd receive greater and greater rewards and “suffer" loss. I think of 1 cor 3, which is clearly talking about those who have believed and HAVE the security of eternal life but one of those big buts of the bible is there and some who have built with wood hay and stubble, on the right foundation , yet suffer loss with nothing to show for it except with nothing to show for it BUT the blood of Jesus that maybe they believed upon at bible camp some decades ago. So, if our “salvation “ is a daily process what does that look like? How about the wedding supper of the lamb where the angels let a man in presumably because he was sealed by the blood or had his invitation but did not have wedding clothes on? It was the Father who kicked him out, but he also doesn’t refer to him as an enemy but a friend…. A friend who just didn’t have wedding clothes on and couldn’t be at that particular event, nevertheless , he was kicked out to a place where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth. It’s easy to assume that means he was kicked out of heaven but I think he was “saved", but the wedding banquet is for those who were clothed in wedding arraignment which I believe are the righteous acts of the saints of eph 2:10. So there are those who are saved with a confession and those who are SAVED through faith AND obedience. We’re all “IN" but I don’t believe that just because you say a prayer to go to heaven gets you into the wedding feast let alone the bridal chamber as a bride. Some are just friends in the outer court looking in, some ate door keepers , some are attendees with the right clothes, some are in the wedding party and then I think there are the “few" who become the bride of Christ. I mean if someone without the right clothes can’t even get into the wedding how about who is allowed into the most intimate place as His Bride? I hold all of this very loosely and with humility and keep myself open to correction but I believe I can back it all up scriptural but am interested in hearing other views from believers.
So we suppose to listen to a pastor who is telling me that if I commit suicide I will go to heaven? Please.
How to be christian has a very good video on the errors of (for all intents and purposes), the protestant view of whether or not someone can lose their salvation.
Do you have a study Bible you recommend?
Leighton, just like you invited Dr Allen, can you now also invite Dr Brown for the sake of fairness and to avoid misrepresentations?
G K. Who is Dr Brown? I don’t know who people are talking about
@@rosstemple7617 Look him up. He's a well known jewish christian scholar. He rejects Calvinism, but he's a personal friend of James White. And on this specific issue, he doesn't believe in OSAS.
I would also suggest Dr. Jordan Cooper, Lutheran scholar. He has two hours worth of podcasts dealing with apostasy and does a great job.
ye can not learn that way, folks, these burps is muck-brained and full of controversy.
Honest question: If we have free will before we are saved, do we lose free will after we are saved?
Answer: what about your will is free? Maybe you're confusing having the FREEDOM to choose, with having FREEWILL. Only The Almighty God has FREEWILL and since the Satan rebelled he has A WILL (not free but still) and humans are FREELY choosing to obey one or the other. Them "doing their own will" is actually fulfilling the will of Satan. That's the whole point. No FREEWILL!
@@tiwanstrong1413 ok, so do we loose free choice after we are saved?
@@ess2000 no, we always have free choice. Calvinism is unbiblical.
We can lose our salvation, we can fall from the faith. I like Dr. Flowers so much but he just agreed with the P from the TULIP. The TULI are obviously wrong, that means that the P cannot stand either.
Yes, because you were Born into Christ. Can you be not born of your mother again?
I have a genuine question.
When He says "if you love Me, keep My commandments," and when Paul says he will show his faith by his works, why am I continually accused of being legalistic when I mention godly living?
Ex "make no provision for the flesh,"
"..no appearance of evil,"
"Walk in the spirit and you shall not fulfill the desires of the flesh..."
All new testament verses, indicating our responsibility to live godly lives.
Any attempt on my part to "follow the law," or keep the commandments and I'm instantly accused.
So trying to stay faithful to my husband (one of the 10), or not stealing (one of the 10) or not lying....
So we're either "no longer under the law" and therefore free to break all the commandments and just claim grace, or we're trying to keep them and therefore legalistic.
So the question is, does grace alone by faith alone mean no need to live godly lives?
When I find myself in the dungeon of doubt of God and his glory I often rest on my belief that what ever I think I believe my salvation is still locked in.
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
{Hebrews 10:38}
Are you concurring with losing one's Salvation?
@@Yeshua_Is_King777
Once saved always saved?
Has a person born again lost their freewill? Have they put on incorruption? Have temptations been removed from them?
No!
“And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: *but* he that *shall endure unto the end* the same shall be saved.”
{Mark 13:13}
Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, *in departing* from the living God.
But exhort one another *daily* while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we are made partakers of Christ, *if* we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end.
{Hebrews 3:12-14}
I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: *but let them not turn again to folly*
{Psalm 85:8}
“When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he [the unclean spirit] walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
Then he saith, I will return into my house [a man] from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.”
{Matthew 12:43-45}
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man *draw back* my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
{Hebrews 10:38}
And he said to them all, "If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross *daily* and follow me.”
{Luke 9:23}
^
Sanctification.
@@larrybedouin2921 Also just fun fact- your last name references one of the most ancient Arab tribes to date- Bedouin Tribe. If you'd like, you can do research on them and see how they correlate with the Bible (specifically the Old Testament and one of the Kingdoms near - one of the closest ones North of - the Arabian Peninsula ✝️
You are not far from the True Faith, for no one knows for sure whether he is saved or not until the judgment. Because if one fails to persevere until the end (Matt 24:13), he will not be saved. That's why St. Paul said in 1 Cor 9:27, "I chastise my body and bring it into subjection, lest perhaps, after I have preached to others, I myself should become a reprobate." St. Paul, an Apostle, was concerned about the possibility of losing his salvation, thus proving that 'Once Saved, Always Saved', 'Faith alone", or 'Predestined" is a complete lie from Hell, and that the salvation requires a great efforts on our part to truly live according to Our Lord's Commandments of Love and observing All He commanded as taught by His One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church (Matt 28:20), so that we may be transformed into the True Image and Likeness of Christ (Rom 8:29, 2 Cor 3:18); because, we are judged, not by Faith, but according to our deeds and works (Rev 20:13, 22:12. Matt 25:31-46), as only those who OBSERVE All the teachings and persevere to the end (Matt 24:13) are justified (Rom 2:13).
We are saved by faith in Christ. So wee need to keep that salvific faith in Christ. Once a person renounces that faith, which is of course not very common, that person has no more salvation. Again, it's not about works; it's about faith, meaning if someone abandons their faith in Christ, then they are abandoning their salvation. But God is so merciful that even they may come back to reconciliation and eventually be saved. God bless.
What about "These things I write unto you so that you may KNOW that you HAVE eternal Life " If I RECEIVED/HAVE Eternal Life, then, by definition, it CANT end. If it EVER did, it couldn't have been eternal, could it? However, JESUS SAID IT WAS...No argument can be mounted against that.
@@davidhollingsworth864 Eternal life, by definition, is eternal, everlasting; that's not being argued against. So it's not about whether or not eternal life is eternal; it's about whether HAVING that eternal life is eternal or not.
We don't have eternal life in and of ourselves. We have eternal life IN Christ. So we are to remain IN Christ by faith until we die in order to keep our salvation. There many verses that teach that life is found only in God, for instance, John 5:26, "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself,”.
In conclusion, we see that God the Father and the Son of God have life in Themselves, but we as believers have life, not in ourselves, but in Christ Jesus.
@@VictorFelipe82 Don't use semantics to try to deny the essence of 1 John 5: 13-15...these things I write unto you so that you may KNOW that YOU HAVE eternal life...not that you would know that eternal MEANS eternal - that's LUDICROUS! I HAVE, I POSSESS, I HAVE OBTAINED God's GIFT which, again, by DEFINITION, means that it MUST endure forever; and that, after I have GENUINELY repented (which MUST occur BEFORE I can even TRULY receive salvation...), I have PASSED FROM DEATH TO LIFE! At that point, my going to Heaven is AUTOMATIC. My VERY REPENTANCE assures I will not go back into PRACTICING sin, the Holy Spirit then SEALS me and is the DOWN PAYMENT until the final Day, with God HIMSELF promising that "He that BEGAN a good work in you will PERFORM IT until the Day of Jesus Christ." The Bible is CLEAR - It is God WHO KEEPS US! The real MOTIVE of those who deny eternal security is ROOTED in our sinful flesh's DEMAND for a YARDSTICK to measure up to, so that Christ ALONE is denied the GLORY of saving them...After all, Lord, you couldn't have done it without my help...Yet, what did Jesus tell us? "Don't be afraid, ONLY believe."
We who believe abide in Christ, but it is also true that Christ also abides in us…. Because his Word abides in us
Christ equipped his children with a Faith that will never Fail us
If you think can lose your salvation, it is because you think your salvation depends on you.
I am not a Calvinist for the record.
I have listened to many of your videos a out Calvinism and couldn't figure out your position on this issue. I definitely don't agree with OSAS, but it is good to know where you & your ministry stands.
@Soteriology101 The problem is that Jesus considers apostates as believers until that time...
you most likely do not know Jesus and should not speak for Him
typical self righteous humanist fake
lost soul have Lots of aggressive words
No, that's ridiculous. Jesus knows who belong to Him, and He will never let them go. God is Sovereign.
@@robroy4058
God is not a God of determinism
@@FishersofTheRemnant Are you saying He's not sovereign?
If OSAS or "eternal security" were true, then there would have been no point in warnings like these:
⚫ "If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned." (Jesus, in John 15:6)
You must first *_be_* a branch before you can be "cast forth as a branch." And obviously we *can* be "cast forth" after becoming a branch. Jesus did not say "once a branch, always a branch." It's amazing to me that anyone could conclude you're still "saved" after being "cast off as a branch" and "withered" and "cast into the fire" and "burned." Simply amazing . . . but people will believe what they want to believe.
Jesus clearly warned what would happen to servants who returned to sin:
⚫ "But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers." (Jesus, in Luke 12:45,46)
"Once saved, always saved," with "eternal security"? Apparently not.
Sins "all paid for, past, present and future"? Apparently not.
That servant was going to pay for his sins himself.
The apostle Paul had the holy spirit. Paul clearly refuted "once saved, always saved": he stated it was possible for him to revert to a life of sin and therefore be rejected . . . thrown out . . . a "castaway":
⚫ "But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway." (1 Corinthians 9:27)
There's a message there for all who have been misled to believe that *having* the holy spirit is a guarantee of your salvation. We must remain in repentance, being *led* by the holy spirit (Romans 8:13,14) and "walking after the spirit" (Romans 8:1) . . . not just _having_ it and ignoring it.
The apostle Paul warned that Gentile believers - even after being "graffed" into the "vine," - could be "cut off" the vine, just as the "natural branches" (the Israelites) had been broken off:
⚫ "Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
For if God spared not the natural branches, *take heed lest he also spare not thee.*
Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, *if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off."* (Romans 11:19-22)
If, after overcoming sin through knowing Jesus, a person then returns to a life of sin, "the latter end is worse with them than the beginning":
⚫ "For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire." (2 Peter 2:20-22)
Here is another warning "if" about returning to a life of sin:
⚫ "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:26,27)
*_Can you lose your salvation?_* Trick question, because it presumes you *_have_* salvation. However Jesus said we must endure to the end to be saved (Matthew 10:22) . . . and we have not endured to the end.
Christians need to understand justification (now) vs salvation (later). Paul wrote that justification and salvation are different things, at different times (Romans 5:9). While we abide in Jesus and "walk after the spirit" (Romans 8:1) we remain in justification and are "in His goodness" or grace (Romans 11:22) -not under condemnation. While in justification we have "the hope of salvation" and are "appointed . . . to obtain salvation" as Paul wrote in 1 Thessalonians 5:8,9. We have many warnings not to fall away from justification because if we do, we'll forfeit that "hope of salvation." We'll miss our appointment to receive the promised gift of eternal life (1 John 2:25), at Jesus' "revelation," His return (1 Peter 1:13; 1 Corinthians 15:50-54; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17). Upon receiving eternal life at Jesus' return, then you will have eternal security. Short of receiving eternal life you will perish, very much unsaved.
⚫ "Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it." (Hebrews 4:1)
Here's more of the many warnings not to fall away. Note the "ifs" with conditions:
⚫ "Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ." (2 Peter 1:10,11 )
⚫ "Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;" (Hebrews 3:12-14)
⚫ "And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;" (Colossians 1:21-23 )
Another "if":
we must choose to be led by the holy spirit:
⚫ "For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God." (Romans 8:13,14)
It IS possible to fall away, even after being made a "partaker" of the holy spirit! There would have been no point in writing the next passage if it were impossible to fall away:
⚫ "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." (Hebrews 6:4-6)
We can "fail of the grace of God":
⚫ "Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled" (Hebrews 12:14,15)
Our names CAN be blotted out of the book of life:
⚫ "He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels."
"And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book." (Revelation 3:5 and 22:19)
@Kieran M The issue is whether or not we are in repentance, willing to confess and forsake sin . . . not whether we are perfect.
⚫ "The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9)
@Kieran M There is no hell. We either receive the gift of eternal life, or we perish by death:
⚫ "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)
⚫ "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Romans 6:23).
⚫ "For yet a little while, and *_the wicked shall not be:_* yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be" (Psalms 37:10).
⚫ "When the wicked spring as the grass, and when all the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that *_they shall be destroyed for ever"_* (Psalms 92:7).
⚫ "The way of the LORD is strength to the upright: but *_destruction_* shall be to the workers of iniquity" (Proverbs 10:29).
⚫ "As the whirlwind passeth, *_so is the wicked no more:_* but the righteous is an everlasting foundation" (Proverbs 10:25).
@Kieran M God knows our hearts, even better than we do. If you had returned to sin wilfully, that would be something to be concerned about:
⚫ "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." (Hebrews 10:26,27)
If the sin happened in a weak moment or by negligence I think God would take your repentant heart into account. God is a God of mercy, and knows our hearts.
@Kieran M But if we'll come to repentance - even after sinning - we are promised His mercy:
⚫ "He that covereth his sins shall not prosper: but whoso confesseth and forsaketh them shall have mercy." (Proverbs 28:13)
⚫ "Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him . . . " (Isaiah 55:7)
@Kieran M Ah, yes, the bullet. You can do a small one like • by holding down the Alt key (on a PC) and while holding it down type 0149 on the keypad, then releasing the Alt key.
I have never discovered how to make the large bullet with Alt + keystrokes. I found the large bullet ⚫ once - years ago - on someone else's RUclips comment, and copied/saved it. I've used it ever since by copying and paste-ing it . . .
Good video. "Renounce" is the word you are looking for. "Renunciate" is not a verb; it is a noun meaning "the person who renounces".
Oh I get it, so if one has true faith you would endure, just as if you truly love you do not abandon. If you can you would question, did you truly love? Please Brothers and Sisters let us please pray to God for clarity in our lives and to help us u.detstand why we love God daily. It is very similar to loving a lover or a child or your parent, let us please be saved and our faith endure because of the constant attacks of the enemy our flesh and the sinful works of the world.
Dear Dr. Flowers, For Biblical reference to the third category that you you don't see mentioned in Scripture, let me point you to 1 Timothy 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;" To say that these people whom the Spirit is expressly talking about as "backslidden" is incorrect as backslidden and "depart from the faith" are two very different things. To say that those whom the Spirit is speaking of were "never saved" is also incorrect as you cannot depart from something that you have never been a part of.
A lot of people like to gloss over this or try to explain it away as meaning something else but when they do that, they are, in effect, calling the Holy Spirit a liar.
The reality is that the audience of the 4 gospels and the book of Hebrews is completely Jewish in nature. The audience of the epistles of Paul is the body of Christ in this present age of grace. The epistles of Paul talk about an assurance of a present salvation that is sealed upon faith that Jesus Christ died for your sins, was buried and rose again on the third day (1 Cor 15:1-4, Eph 2:8-9). It talks about assurance of salvation and salvation as a transaction rather than a process in Romans 8:38-39, Eph 1:13-14, Eph 4:30 and other places. The Hebrew epistles speak of salvation as something future, to attain through endurance til the end. We must simply rightly divide the word of truth (2 Tim 2:15) and divide God's prophecy program from his mystery program. The body of Christ (God's mystery program) is not the nation of Israel (God's prophecy program). The body of Christ is not spiritual Israel. God made clear earthly promises to the nation of Israel that he will keep and fulfill when the times of refreshing have come (yet future).
No mere mortal has eternal security until they are securely in Eternity - Ben Witherington.
And why would they have it there?
Satan didn't.
@@georgechristiansen6785 satan didn't have what it takes. You didn't know that?
@@gavinhurlimann2910 And humans do?
@@georgechristiansen6785 Satan was never promised eternal life by the Father, we are.
@@TheScriptureTruth And........
Christians allegedly have eternal life NOW and still sin.
I appreciate the non-divisive tone. I commend how Dr. Leighton approaches this topic.
Regarding whether all Scriptures fit into the last two categories (vs. the first), the apostle Paul believed it was quite possible that someone who is truly standing by faith could nevertheless leave the faith and consequently be cut off for leaving the faith (just as someone without faith could later come into faith and be grafted in). One clear example of this is Romans 11:17-24. It helps to read it in context in an older translation that uses thou/thee for singular-you vs. you/ye for plural-you (e.g. ASV or KJV). Elsewhere in the chapter he is talking to his audience in the plural as a group, but here he is choosing to shift to addressing people as individuals who individually stand by faith currently and yet who would be cut off, if an individual does not continue in (or remain upon, epimeno) the faith. He isn't saying their faith is not real or they are not truly grafted in. It is authentic -- provided only that they continue. He also is clearly not saying they will still be saved even if they leave the faith. It is the first circle category in Dr. Leighton's three categories.
That epimeno (meno = abide/stay/remain/continue, epi = upon) term by Paul is related to the meno (abide, stay, remain) term used in John 15:1-10 about those who do or do not remain in the vine of Christ. Same implications. The concern is not over those who never were connected to the vine. They just need to remain there. Nor is this about being saved, though as through fire, even if you don't remain.
You see the same concern in Paul's first letter to the Thessalonians. He has no fear that they are not truly believers. He has a real fear that the persecution they faced might have caused them to leave the faith. He is clearly not saying they would be saved anyway, and he is not saying their acceptance of the message wasn't real, genuine, authentic. It is only if they left the faith that Paul's missionary work there would have been rendered in vain.
His fear is that they would become as the seed sown in the rocky soil in the parable by Jesus of the four soils. Jesus doesn't assume that real faith always includes perseverance. On the contrary, all three synoptic Gospels indicate their faith was real for a time and it did really grow, but it was temporary. They later fell away. The account in Luke 8 explicitly distinguishes the fourth soil as having endurance or perseverance. The apostle Peter, who heard the teaching of Jesus, writes in 2 Peter 1 about how our faith needs to have other qualities added to it, including adding endurance/perseverance as a distinct quality alongside other distinct qualities that all need to be added to one's faith (eg 1:5-7). Notice that he commands his audience to make every effort to add these qualities to faith. It is the same Greek word for perseverance/endurance as is used in Luke's account of the fourth soil in the parable of the soils. So Jesus and Peter did not suppose that faith and endurance/perseverance are automatically the same thing. Neither did Paul.
Paul's Galatians letter as a whole is another example. Read the whole letter to see his consistent tone. He never suggests that their faith was not authentic, not genuinely of the Spirit, not the kind of real faith through which grace comes. They were running well. They need to stand firm in what they have. At the same time, he gives them no reason to think that if they leave the gospel of salvation by grace through faith and seek circumcision and salvation through works that they will be saved anyway. If the true believers did that, that would sever them from Christ. Christ would then be of no benefit to them. They will have fallen from grace. As with Romans 11 and 1 Thessalonians, notice the choice of his words that indicate the danger of a loss of a former good state (e.g. Gal. 5:1-4). His concern is about the possibility of desertion, of being turncoats (Gal 1:6, "3. passive or (more commonly) middle, to transfer oneself or suffer oneself to be transferred, i. e. to go or pass over ... to fall away or desert from one person or thing to another, Galatians 1:6 (cf. 2 Macc. 7:24; Polybius 5, 111, 8; 26, 2, 6; Diodorus 11, 4; (ὁ μεταθεμενος, turncoat, (Diogenes Laërtius 7, 166 cf. 37; Athen. 7, 281 d.)).
Once a person sees Paul's repeated concern about believers possibly leaving the faith, one finds other examples in more of his letters about how salvation is conditional on remaining in the faith, holding on to the faith, and so on (e.g. 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Col. 1:21-23). He never assumes that starting in a real faith automatically means perseverance. Nor does he assume that falling away indicates that someone's beginning in faith was not genuine. If it were not genuine, then merely holding on to something that was ineffectual would not save. It would be false hope. Even when concerned, Paul urged people to hold on to the faith they already had as a valid means for grace -- provided they were not moved away from it by deception, persecution, or tribulation as some rocky-soil believers would be.
It is because the apostle Paul does not believe that P (as in TULIP) is guaranteed in all who have faith that I knew early on that I could not reconcile Paul with Calvinism. Now, I'm also very appreciative of the work of Dr. Leighton and others to more fully explain how Calvinism (following late-stage Augustine) departs from the earliest three centuries of Christian belief. Thank you very much!
Great presentation!
I was reading Hebrews 6: 4-6 and I have to ask; can a nonbeliever partake of the Holy Spirit?
you can not think though, boy
@@allentomas3417 I hope "though" was intended to be "that" or "that thought though", otherwise you are insulting my intelligence.
@@isaiahkerstetter3142 OSAS people are just as obnoxious as Calvinists.
@@gk.4102 That's not been my experience and Mr. Tomas hasn't responded as of yet so his poor grammar and punctuation is still unintelligible.
@@gk.4102 Maybe, but at least they're saved forever.
I used to be a once saved always saved girl myself. Until the Lord convicted me and washed me from a lifestyle of sin. A once Born Again child of God gloriously filled with the spirit I fell back into sin and for 5 years was blindly living a life of sin all the while thinking that I was a child of God. I even went to church in this condition and once convicted it took me a YEAR for my eyes to fully be open to the height that I had fallen from.
The spirit of God began to minister to me and I began to see just exactly what had happened and why. This once saved always saved Doctrine was nothing more than a license to sin and live in it without conviction because the light had been removed and the spirit was absent! I was blinded once again in sin just as if I had never been saved... but I thought I was saved. as the spirit of God began to minister more and more I went to him in prayer and I said you have shown me the truth now show me what I can do. so here I am.
John 15 1-10Jesus clearly states that if a man remains in him bearing fruit then shall he be my disciples. He States every branch in me that bears no fruit is taken away and burned. He did not say once connected always connected there's a contingency based upon remaining in him. Remaining in the Vine. The problem that occurs is that folks do not remain in the Vine. When they don't remain in the Vine they do not produce fruits unto repentance scripture is clear that father God will cut it down and it is to be burned. This is parallel to what Paul spoke of in Hebrews chapter 6 and verse 8 in that which Bears thorns and Briars is rejected near to cursing whose end is to be burned.
2 Peter 2 amplifies this ..vs 20 for if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled and overcome the latter end is worse for them than the beginning for it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness then after they had known it to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them but this is happened unto them according to the true proverb the dog is turned again to his own vomit and the sow has returned to her wallowing in the mud.
Ezekiel 18:24 “But if a righteous person turns from their righteousness and commits sin and does the same detestable things the wicked person does, will they live? None of the righteous things that person has done will be remembered. Because of the unfaithfulness they are guilty of and because of the sins they have committed, they will die"
Folks have been bamboozled by the once saved always saved lie. It's the same lie that Satan presented to Eve in the Garden of Eden. It's the same old tactic with a different label. Genesis 3:4 and the serpent said to the woman YOU SHALL NOT SURELY DIE for God does know that in the day that you eat thereof then your eyes shall be opened and you shall be as Gods knowing Good and Evil. In the same way this false Doctrine teaches sins are forgiven past present and future...it teaches no need for repentance or self-examination why, you are above sinning...past present and future sin is abolished. You've already received your crown!! Live as you like..when scripture is very clear from Isaiah 59 that sin is the number one thing that SEPARATES us from God. it neglects the fact that we need to have a clean conscience before God. It denies that we have to be ready waiting and watching for the Master's return. Ready waiting and watching requires self-examination and a repentant heart before the throne of grace. if you're once saved always saved you have no need to walk in holiness and without it the Bible says None will see the Lord. Once saved always saved is a cloak for sin when the Bible says to submit ourselves and humble ourselves and to crucify our flesh.
Once once saved always saved is quite possibly one of the largest deceptions and contributors to the great Falling Away spoken of in second Thessalonians 2 and 1st Timothy chapter 4. While it promises comfort and eternal security it is a false security and a very deceptive slippery slope AWAY from Christ and OUTSIDE of the vine to those who wrap themselves in it. You have no need of Him any longer! You've believed the lie! Jude explained this deseptive doctrine to perfection..For certain people have crept in unnoticed [just as if they were sneaking in by a side door]. They are ungodly persons whose condemnation was predicted long ago, for they distort the grace of our God into decadence and immoral freedom [viewing it as an opportunity to do whatever they want], and deny and disown our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
5 Now I want to remind you, although you are fully informed once for all, that [e]the Lord, after saving a people out of the land of Egypt, subsequently destroyed those who did not believe [who refused to trust and obey and rely on Him
This Doctrine portrays only the love of God and it neglects the Holiness of God. God has not nor will he ever change for he has said I am the Lord I change not. One is either born again or they are not. They either have the spirit of God or they do not. if they are born again then they will not remain in their sin or continue in a lifestyle of sin and still have the Holy Spirit for the scriptures are very clear that it is sin that separates us from God.
A child of God will not run around and Tout that they are above falling, they fear God, humble themselves understanding that he REQUIRES abiding in him, faithful service and a commited life to overcoming the World the Flesh and the devil just as Christ did but also knowing and Remembering The Words of Christ that any man putting his hand to the plow and then turn back is not fit for the kingdom of God. They begin to work out their own salvation with fear and trembling just as Paul said. They walk in daily communion and obedience to the savior.
it's my prayer that anyone reading this would carefully consider through the lens of scripture where they stand. That they would examine the scriptures for themselves and let the spirit of God teach them and direct them and guide them into all truth. Jesus says straight is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life and few are found therein. once saved always saved is a very welcomed and famously preached Doctrine by many respected pastors but if you could have a bird's eye view into the throne room where they stand and give an account for what they have taught in error I'm sure one would shutter in fear...
Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour..
1 Peter 5:8
Hello i dont have any side of this argument because I'm still questioning it . I'm here to ask questions only . So for me both exist in the bible like osas has theirs and those who dont believe in osas has theirs . So basically from what i understand you can never lose your salvation but can forfeit it . I want to know your opinion on this statement sis. I once have a question on an osas believer and what he's been saying is making me confused . He said yes we have a choice but you cannot lose your salvation either you never had it because you lose your faith .
When i first hear of this doctrine i have thought the same things. This could be a dangerous thing if didnt explained in a deeper way and this person im talking about just say to people that once save always save nothing else just that . And in my mind it could be dangerous .
So are you saying you were born again , lost your salvation then born a 3rd time? Sounds as if you were backsliding rather
What a great analogy when you're reference us seeing the external fruit and God viewing the internal root
I've been waiting for you to expound on this subject.
he is a trini-biter, boy
I think that, just NT Wright points out, in second temple Judaism justification has a present and a future dimension, so I don’t think you can say that it is only forensic. There is a covenantal and escathological aspect to it.
So, I’ll question the validity of the assertion from the perspective of modern scholarship.
But also please bear in mind that this idea is nowhere to be found in the early Fathers. So, if you claim that Augustine went against the consensus of the early Fathers regarding predestination you need to be consistent intellectually and reject forensic justification on the same grounds.
Below some excerpts from Aleister McGrath, which knows probably better than anyone else the history of the doctrine of justification.
“The essential distinguishing feature of the reformation doctrines of justification is that a deliberate and systematic distinction is made between justification and regeneration...the essential point is that a notional distinction is made where none had been acknowledged before in the history of Christian doctrine. A fundamental discontinuity was introduced into the western theological tradition where none had ever existed, or even been contemplated, before. The reformation understanding of the nature of justification -as opposed to its mode- must be regarded as a genuine theological novum”
psalms 89
27 Also I will make him my firstborn, higher than the kings of the earth.
28 My mercy will I keep for him for evermore, and my covenant shall stand fast with him.
29 His seed also will I make to endure for ever, and his throne as the days of heaven.
30 If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments;
31 If they break my statutes, and keep not my commandments; note
32 Then will I visit their transgression with the rod, and their iniquity with stripes.
33 Nevertheless my lovingkindness will I not utterly take from him, nor suffer my faithfulness to fail. note note
34 My covenant will I not break, nor alter the thing that is gone out of my lips.
35 Once have I sworn by my holiness that I will not lie unto David. note
36 His seed shall endure for ever, and his throne as the sun before me.
37 It shall be established for ever as the moon, and as a faithful witness in heaven. Selah.
Thanks for the presentation Leighton. I appreciated the three categories you identified. Here’s my perspective: My basic assumption is that the heart of salvation is relationship - relationship with God and fleshed out in relationship with the brethren. The soteriological categories mentioned are all designed to facilitate relationship. Dealing with the sin problem through faith in Christ and his work on the cross makes relationship with a holy God possible. Being declared ‘not guilty’ (justification’) clears the way forensically speaking for relationship with the Judge, being adopted as children of God makes an ongoing relationship with the Father possible, the call to be sanctified facilitates our growing relationship with a holy God. Even our regeneration by the Spirit of God is God’s coming into our lives and facilitating relationship. Now, like all person-person relationships they are entered into voluntarily and sustained voluntarily. This feature would seem to be intrinsic to relationships. This is especially so with covenantal relationships (e.g., marriage). I think this aspect of relationships is grounded in what it means to love. If all this is true, then, in principle, one could easily see how a voluntarily entered relationship can be voluntarily broken. I agree, no one can lose their salvation, but they can indeed choose to forfeit that relationship. Salvation is not a digital affair - in/out, on/off, sealed/unsealed, born again/unborn again. Salvation , like all relationship, is analogue - hence the degrees of Christian maturity. And, in the ultimate, an analogue relationship can be chosen to be terminated by one of the parties. Finally, the many exhortations given us in Scripture to persevere in the faith, to be overcomers, to put on the armor of God, to walk in the Spirit - all become irrelevant in the final analysis if choosing to forsake the Lord (apostasy) is impossible - either because one was never a believer in the first place or because one is merely backsliding. (We are to persevere to the end because, as you mentioned, salvation is a process - with a beginning (justification), an ongoing aspect (sanctification), and an end (glorification)). And especially is this the case with the many warnings in Scripture directed towards believers against forsaking the faith and reverting back to their pre-relationship with God state. The book of Hebrews warnings become truly meaningless if the possibility of reverting back to Judaism (for those Hebrew Christians) is ultimately impossible. Genuine apostasy is a reality!
So much for the simplicity of Christ!!!
Sounds like you believe you can lose your salvation. I sure hope are wrong.
@@jimmiemcgraw6199 Lack of assurance is a consequence of false doctrine!!!
Well Said, John 15 I believe clearly shows us that eternal life is in Jesus Christ not in you or me ( Abide in me and I in you ) If you walk away from him you have nothing. Salvation is in your continuing relationship with Jesus. Jesus word in Revelation are clear he warns us to be over-comers of the temptations inwardly and of the world outside. In Revelation Jesus also lets us know that our names can be blotted out of the book of life. It's sad that the bulk of Christians today are bible illiterate they rely only on what they've been told. I'm afraid the pulpit has become a place for proof texting their own beliefs, God's word is well balanced if you preach both side of the Gospel. As many assurances he gives us their are as many warnings against the apostate. We are to endure to the end!!! Thank You for your Post
What about king Saul? Filled by the Holy Spirit, became a new person, used by the Holy Spirit, then rejected the LORD and died (1 Chronicles 10:13)? Wouldn’t he be one who was saved yet chose to walk away?
I don't think any person would say someone gives up their free will once they are in heaven.
If in this world we are saved through our faith that Jesus can save us, once we are in heaven we don't have faith that Jesus can save us...we are already saved.
The Parable of the Sower strongly implies that it is possible to lose salvation by falling away, as do passages in Hebrews and 2 Peter. That said, it is definitely possible to return to faith and have salvation restored. C.S. Lewis is a prime example of this: he was a believer until his teens, then became an atheist for almost two decades before returning first to theism and ultimately to Christianity. Had Lewis died while he was an atheist (which nearly happened when he fought in World War 1), it's unlikely he would have been saved.
I have a friendly challenge for you if you haven't already read this book it's called Must Faith Endure for Salvation to Be Sure? by Thomas L. Stegall, it's kinda long but it's an enjoyable read or just get an audio book of it, highly recommend to at the least understand the other sides arguments, God bless.
If you can have salvation where Christ knows you and you know Christ, and then you lose that salvation…. How then can Christ Declare to those people “I NEVER Knew You”
His Love can Never Fail, and the Faith he gave us will also never Fail
@@malcolm716 That's not what's happening there at all. You're mistakenly assuming that there is only one kind of lost people when there are actually two kinds. The first, those Christ is declaring that He "never knew" are those who were faking their beliefs the entire time. The second are apostates, who genuinely knew Christ at some point in their lives but chose to turn away from Him and stop believing. The first group is what is represented by the first soil in the Parable of the Sower. The second group is represented by the second and third soils.
God doesn't "gr@pe" people spiritually, either for their entire existence as Calvinists believe or after they believe, as OSAS-ers believe. While He will never end the relationship on His end, He respects the free choice of the sinner to remain in Him and be saved or to abandon Him and be condemned.
@@DamonNomad82
I understand your thoughts on the Two Groups…. One Group never really Believed they faked it, and the other group did have Faith but abandoned it
My Question is referring to the group you claim knew Christ at one point and Christ knew them at one point. If that group at one point had Faith, but abandoned their Faith down the line, how can Christ say to them “I NEVER knew you”?
@@malcolm716 I answered your question in my first reply. Jesus WASN'T saying "I never knew you" to those who once believed and had fallen away. He WAS saying that to those who had never believed in Him to begin with.
Amen brother, I respect your knowledge of scripture, you are a blessing to many including me, thank you for your loving tone and demeanor in your teaching , you are a true encouragement to new believers , God is using you for good no doubt , all glory to the Father for sending you to you tube , peace be with you brother and God bless you and your family 🙏👍
Please don't support Leighton. He's preaching a false doctrine here.
@@jedimasterham2 yeah , let me guess your doctrine is the truth right?
@@carpentertom2835 Leighton is teaching falsely that one can leave salvation, when scripture says no such thing.
If we believe in free will (which I do) we do not surrender our will after salvation. If we choose to walk away, I believe we can, just as I believe in our free will to accept Jesus’ free gift of salvation. I am not dogmatic about this, believe eternal security could possibly be true. But for me there are enough Scriptures to make me still hold to the position you can walk away.
Brilliant teaching bless you
History of OSAS beliefs is as follows...
1st/2nd century Gnostics develop a doctrine in which the predetermined "elect" are unconditionally elected to salvation. Gnostics believed that man's salvation is based on knowledge apart from any moral code by which he ascends; therefore under no circumstances can one of the elect be lost. The early church writings are replete with warnings refuting the false doctrines of the Gnostics. Fast forward and it is Augustine the "ex" Manichean who develops what would become the TULIP of Calvinism while writing against the Pelagians (check out Ken Wilson also featured on Soteriology 101). This is where a form of OSAS found its way into the church but was not embraced by the Catholic church. Finally the Reformers brought back Augustinianism in a big way and OSAS was back on the map.
I find it curious that non-Calvinists would be so eager to embrace a doctrine that was built on the denial of freewill. Moreover it ignores Christ's teachings on the matter while adhering to a doctrine that originated with heretics.
@@abideintheWord I love your channel man! I watched your video about this video. Dr. Flowers is such a great man and he destroy so good calvinism, but It is so sad that he accepts the "P".
It is really bothering to see the comment section full with the free-grace dispensationalists. If Flower rebuked OSAS they wouldn't be able to effectively spread their lies, but now they are able to deceive some babe in Christ.
@@dimitartodorov4826 Is there a difference between his Provisionism and Free grace?
Though I believe in OSAS I still love your teachings. We have been adopted into his family. I don’t like using marriage because divorce isn’t sinful in certain events. But adoption is something you can’t separate from you. If he is our Father, what Father will abandon his child? Our Father who is in heaven... and the prodigal son parable as well. When he talks about us he talks about us as his children. Also the verse where it says that no one can snatch us away from his love not any kind of power. We aren’t powerful enough to separate us from him.
The adoption has not been finalized yet and will not be until we receive glorified bodies:
23 Not only that, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24 For in this hope we were saved; but hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he can already see?
(Romans 8:23-24)
God does not abandon His children but sometimes His children abandon Him and the only way he has provided to save us:
1 Now the Spirit expressly states that in later times some will ABANDON THE FAITH to follow deceitful spirits and the teachings of demons
(1 Timothy 4:1)
@@JimiSurvivor You can’t lose what you never had to begin with. If you were never truly saved to begin with, then there’s nothing there to worry about losing because you aren’t saved. You also can’t lose something you don’t leave. As long as you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are saved, & you are eternally secure. I’m this way, believers’ salvation is eternally secure.
@@RUT812
a. "You can’t lose what you never had to begin with"
I agree. Unbelievers, cannot lose a salvation they never possessed. This does not prove believers cannot depart from their faith. Paul warned:
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will DEPART from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons,
(1 Timothy 4:1)
DEPART is the translation of the Greek word aphistemi. Other translations include: "fall away" or "abandon" Thayer's Greek Lexicon defines this word as:
"to desert, withdraw from...to fall away, BECOME FAITHLESS.
This suggests a transition from one state (believing) to the opposite state (not believing). The people Paul was describing had faith but subsequently abandoned or departed from it. There is no room in the verse to insert that they NEVER believed. That is pure eisegesis.
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b. "If you were never truly saved to begin with, then there’s nothing there to worry about losing because you aren’t saved."
I would say there is a great deal for anyone who is not saved to "worry about"
36 Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life. Whoever rejects the Son will not see life. Instead, the wrath of God remains on him.”
(John 3:36)
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c. "You also can’t lose something you don’t leave."
Yes and if Christians DO NOT LEAVE Christ they will not lose anything else either
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d. "As long as you believe in the Lord Jesus Christ, you are saved, & you are eternally secure."
As long as you CONTINUE TO HAVE FAITH in Jesus you are saved and secure. Some believers will not fulfill that condition. This is the focus of most of the warnings given in the NT:
21 Once you were alienated from God and were hostile in your minds because of your evil deeds. 22 But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence -
(Colossians 1:21-22)
This scripture shows the final end God has prepared for us. However reaching this end has conditions attached to it:
23 IF indeed you CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, not moved NOT MOVED from the hope of the gospel you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature
(Colossians 1:23)
We will only realize our eternal inheritance, IF we CONTINUE in TO BELIEVE and do not allow ourselves to be moved away into a lifestyle of disobedience or into false teaching that contradicts the gospel of the Lord Jesus.
@@JimiSurvivor not that I'm disagreeing with you, and no I'm not a Calvinist (that's such a scary horrid teaching), more on a regular christian that does not claim to denominations, , but then my rhetorical question to you is then even though there are people misled by false teaching but still have faith in Jesus, and even though doubt races in my mind about my salvation at times, along with many others, because of the difficulties life brings or even working out salvation, but still have faith, that still counts ofcourse, right? Because there are days when we fall short and that is an active moment when we sin, mess up, get tired, cannot keep a performance base, and have a bad day with bad news and really difficult scenarios, where we feel so exhausted we fass short even by crying and wanting to give up, But our faith, meaning belief, though small as an mustard, meaning we still have our faith in God, even if it feels like life is falling apart, THAT is STILL an example of faith, which still clearly shows that person is saved given their faith, right? And if someone went bitter but turned back to the Lord, with a heart of Goldy sorrow, we still cannot tell them they "lost the gift" even through those moments right? because here's the thing, we live in a broken world and we do have the choices to have faith or not. But you got to take into account that It's not by our own works, but by faith which we all agree on, which then God's grace becomes more abound. So yes truly things do matter. I'm NOT for a denomination, I'm just a follower of Christ, but that being said, we also cannot conclude that x+y=z for sure. I got away from bad teaching and still have to look out for it, but in that current time you wouldn't be able to concluded that I'd be in hell or am going to hell because at that time, which was then current, now past was a solid conclusion of me not being saved, even when I was in error of defending error, which FF to now I am not at all supporting or endorsing the intentions or errors of flase teaching, but reading the Gospel for myself. And I know you're not literally concluding X+Y=Z to the extent of basing works out to be an "%80 accurate of the time" conclusion of determining someone's salvation. I only say these things because I can relate to some of these examples in some degree, and I'm no means perfect and I fall short and sometimes get so overwhelmed by how much fighting the church does sometimes we can bare it. There's times I fell short MANY times, and thought "well, I failed this time for sure and I've failed being faithful in this moment so clearly I'm in danger of losing salvation". YET I'm still here by God's grace. and To an extend this can add to your point, but to add to it is the fact of NOT limiting what GRACE uniquely looks like in everyone's life. Can't box God up. Even people in the BATTLE of addiction. They hurt but who says they didn't believe or they don't? Because they struggle, which can easily imply that ups AND downs will exist and can exist most of their life. NO ONE can live a sinless life. So, to conclude, I think that OSAS can present issues regarding the hypotheticals which are usually anticipated as an argue against it. Idk all the answers. I'm more so" If you confess with your mouth and heart and genuinely (honestly) believe, you will be saved". The moment you do seals you in Heaven. Relationship is important. But I also think that what we need to do is help and address doubt of salvation, and NOT preach a work based faith by mistake, because it doesn't matter what part of the spectrum you're on, I feel that The full coherency of the Bible teaches that we are all fallen, through Jesus we are redeemed, yes Jesus even says to remain in Him, but I think the problem we face is that we forget how SIMPLE remaining in Him can be, and how our fruits are a result of our salvation, but not a direct determination by "amount or type of fruits" that could come up with a determined that we "maintain" salvation by works rather than believing the finished work was enough. Christ's faithfulness, or in other words,finished work on the cross. again my fellow brother, not disagreeing with you that we take faith actively seriously, but at the same time cannot support and will not support anything that can imply works based salvation since it can fall ultimately lead to doubt in Jesus work on the cross.
@@RandyEscalanteGarcia
a. "...even though there are people misled by false teaching but STILL HAVE FAITH in Jesus, and even though DOUBT races in my mind about my salvation at times, along with many others, because of the difficulties life brings or even working out salvation, but still have faith, that still counts of course, right?"
Our faith vacillates because we are temporal and do not yet see God directly. I myself have gone through dark times where my faith was almost completely extinguished. However, merely having doubt alone is not equivalent to completely ABANDONING of the faith (1 Timothy 4:1). It is possible to believe and doubt at the same time (e.g., Mark 9:24)
b. The dichotomy between FAITH vs WORKS comes from the Reformers misunderstanding of Paul. When the Apostle opposed WORKS he did not mean any action whatsoever but meritorious good deeds of the LAW. No amount of that class of actions saves us. He did not mean that no action at all is required for salvation. We are commanded to REPENT and BELIEVE. These are actions but not ones we choose apart from the influence of the Spirit. However, we are capable of resisting, refusing, and quenching the Spirit. Besides that Paul always CONTRASTED repentance and faith with meritorious works. Personally I never imagined that something good I did would grant me forgiveness nor establish me in right standing with God.
c. The idea of "maintaining" salvation strikes me as a peculiar notion. What the scripture tells us to do is keep believing THE GOSPEL. If we continue doing that then we will continue to abide in the Father and Son. This process of continuing in Him IS the definition of eternal life:
24 As for you, let what you have heard from the beginning [the gospel] remain in you. IF it does, you will also remain in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is the promise that He Himself made to us: eternal life.…(1 John 2:24-25)
Continuing in Him would be impossible without the indwelling Holy Spirit who assists us by giving us the power to live.
d. God will give us grace and help in times of need. Nevertheless the Bible says WE must continue in the faith all the way to the throne room
22 But now He has reconciled you by Christ’s physical body through death to present you holy, unblemished, and blameless in His presence - 23 if indeed you CONTINUE IN YOUR FAITH, established and firm, NOT MOVED from the HOPE OF THE GOSPEL you heard, which has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant.…
(Colossians 1:21-22)
If we are MOVED AWAY from our hope we will never complete our journey,
e. Believing is not a meritorious good work of the Law. Neither does it mean to hold to a doctrinal opinion. Rather it means to trust in, have confidence in, rely on and depend upon Him.
Hebrews 11:6: And without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith comes across to the natural man as a perilous risk:
23 Then Jesus said to all of them, “If anyone wants to come after Me, he must deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow Me. 24 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it.…
(Luke 9:21-24)
Justification is not about being declared sinless, it is about being declared a faithful covenant member. It is a declaration at one point in time. Not an everlasting guarantee of being declared forever a member in good standing.
In regards to category three of apostasy, would it not be supported by Hebrews 6:4-6?
If a perfectly created being like Satan can go against God - What more men with their sinful carnal bodies.
Once Saved Always Saved is a device created by Satan to deceive the masses.
Until you are glorified with a body like Christ, a body higher than of angels, only then you can say you are truly Saved.
In the mean time BE ON YOUR GUARD - 1 Pet 5:8
Amen
Well I don't find that angels mind you 3rd heaven angels don't have free will. That's a lie from the pit of "Hell"
No where in the bible does it say that angels are under the law of sin and death. The word angel can refer to people or actual celestial angels and people conflate the two mostly to support their doctrine of fallen angels
@@a-aron6724 - Hell is created for angels that committed sins.
Sin already existed before the Law of sin and death was given to mankind.
so, what is sin?
What’s the blood of Jesus to you? Powerless, chopped liver?
Fatally mistaken in one respect. This is a very gracious and well-defended presentation as usual by Mr. Flowers. I do Respectfully disagree in one aspect that I think is critical. A true believing Christian can stop believing, but that Christian will not lose his salvation. Ultimately, it is the faithfulness of God that will keep that Christian saved, not the Christian’s faithfulness or continued belief that will keep himself saved. See 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24; 2 Timothy 2:13. This is an important, practical, destiny distinction, because it is only the person who has abandoned ALL faith in himself for his salvation and placed it in Christ that is saved.
Romans 4:4-5 NKJV
[4] Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. [5] But to him who DOES NOT WORK but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness (emphasis supplied)
I am not suggesting antinomianism. A Christian SHOULD always be striving to become more like his Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ. See Romans 6:1-2; Ephesians 2:8-10. But ultimately it is the unbreakable promise of God that we should be relying upon, rather than our continued faithfulness or belief, for our salvation. See John 5:24; 6:35; 6:39-40; 6:47: 10:28-29; 14:27-28; Romans 4:16; 5:8-11; 2 Cor. 1:22; 5:5; Eph. 4:30; 1 Peter 1:4-5.
That's not what St. Paul thought. Why do you think he kept re-visiting and writing to his prior congregations?
@@bazzy8376 Did Paul claim he was writing and visiting to ensure they didnt lose their salvation?
You’re under the impression that we work in order to be saved. OSAS believers are mistaken in this as well.
We don’t work to be saved
We work because we are saved
We work as proof we are saved
@@joshcordon7114 how are osas believers mistaken given your statements?
@@MarkNOTW OSAS believers are under the impression that those that don’t subscribe to OSAS think that we are able to receive salvation because of our works.
That is not at all the case.
We are saved through faith in Christ. Christ is first and foremost. You can’t attain salvation through works without faith.
But faith and works are both required.
As the word says
FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD
Almost everyone has Scriptures that they think supports their stand, but oftentimes in doing so, they sweep under the carpet Scriptures that refute their stand, and actually prove something contradictory to what they're submitting. Flowers has done the same thing. He picks-out only the Scriptures that he thinks are supporting his stand on the subject, while ignoring so many other Scriptures that teach something different. I see this in so many churches - that is why there are so many different denominations as the [entire] Bible is not taken into account.
Amen Paul said work out our Salvation with Fear and Trembling!!!
Love your videos. Sometimes if your throat or mouth isn't clear, it distracts from your very important message. Thanks! Keep the faith ✌️&luv
Agreed. Leighton needs to speak more distinctly rather than speaking gutturally.
Interesting. I was initially hesitant when I saw this come up because I thought I would disagree more (since I’m more of the free grace view) but I pretty much agree. There are small differences I would have, such as I don’t think people remain justified due to God’s provision, but instead, Gods faithfulness. But I’m not sure the distinction is all that significant. Anyways, good take on this.
wadda you meeeme?!
So you dont believe that repentance is required for salvation?
Vocab needs to watch some Leighton 😊
@@Tatiana-cp1fc Whaddo you meme, approves this message ;)
@@whaddoyoumeme Hey man! This is how I've been trying to explain this on your live streams last couple days.
Though I disagree with OSAS, I still love Leighton. ☺
You disagree with the Lord Jesus Himself. It is the ONLY gospel. Anything you add to this gospel is false and accursed.
@@look2christ777 OSAS isn't biblical. One can both freely choose Christ and also freely reject Him afterwards. Scripture warns believers to not do so.
Felix Mitchell god never says he will blot names out
That’s not a biblically true statement
Felix Mitchell - Salvation has ALWAYS been a FREE GIFT. Abraham and David were saved because they believed, not because of their works under the law. Scripture is very clear on this.
Romans 4:3-8
3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
6 Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,
7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.
8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
@@johngodsey5327 God is not an "Indian Giver". A believer receives "everlasting" @ their conversion. The "everlasting" is the *SAME* word used to describe the "everlasting" fires of hell. So if a person can s/how, in s/way lose his "everlasting" life, that would mean that a person has a chance to get out of hell somehow, at some time & in some way. Ye must be born *AGAIN* , singular...not again & again should you transgress to what...just how many sins, what type of sin, etc is it that s/body can even commit for God to use his eraser and erase the name from the Lamb's Book of Life? Is it a mere choice to say they no longer believe? *SMH*
Once saved always saved is like saying once committed always committed, ignores that some people turn back on their faith commitment once made to Christ for various reasons, ignores the free agency of volition on part of the individual. So, "once saved always saved" is irrational on its face.
This video really is changing my few
Keep watching. You'll continue to see the profuse error that is calvinism
I find the Arminian perspective is much more in line with Apostolic teachings in that salvation is a process not a free meal ticket into the kingdom of God. David Pawson points out that modern theology presents a half baked gospel that does not produce maturity within the believer and that there is a lack of a Holy fear of God to stop sinning. Within the Scriptures, Salvation is seen as Past, Present and Future, all Salvation, God’s Grace and Eternal security passages of Scripture is seen in context with adjectives of conditions that are required for entry to the kingdom of God. There are no short cuts without showing the works of your faith. The Seven Churches in Revelation are judged according to their works not because they asked for a ticket.
This way of looking at it makes a lot more sense to me. The tricky part for anyone who believes that the future is settled form God's perspective is that God would be relating to a person who is on the road to salvation but will ultimately fall away as though he were a child of God even though He knows that in the end that individual will reject Him. If on the other hand you believe that the future is in part open even to God, then there is no conflict.
Cris Jones submission is a word that is not preached about these days and the lack of fear of God’s wrath on those who rebel against His commandments is something we need to be reminded of. The Early Christians recited the Lord’s Prayer to remind us to keep in step with God’s will.
Hebrews 6:4-8 states clearly that if someone who has "shared in the Holy Spirit" falls away, not only are they no longer saved, but they can't be brought back to repentance. It seems to me apostasy after being with the Holy Spirit is not only possible, but also permanent. There is a lot of eisegesis concerning that chapter of the Bible, but it clearly states that people indwelt with the Holy Spirit can fall away, and can not again be brought to repentance. So yes, there is a category 3, clearly supported by the Bible.
We have to be careful not to always take English translations at face value, but to investigate the true meaning. Because this one verse can’t possibly undo all the other verses in seemingly contradiction to it. God always forgives those who confess and repent and He always implores us to turn back to Him. The verb in this passage is a present particle. Meaning while it is ongoing. But also, you really have to think about what actually is “falling away”. To some that is drinking one sip of beer, or one sin, or maybe going through a 6 month period of bad decisions. But what would constitute as true falling away. And at any point anyone can change their minds or be brought back to repentance. I know without a doubt if someone prays and asks forgiveness from God with a true repentant heart, He will not cast out. And remember, with man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible. I would never treat anyone as a lost cause and I don’t think anyone should treat themselves as a lost cause either. It’s His will that none should perish but all come to repentance. My sister has “left church”, but it is God’s will for her to come back to Him- rather than live in unrepentant sin. It couldn’t possibly be that God would turn her away if she came back to Him. That’s just not what the whole counsel of God teaches. I don’t say any of this to argue, but to spread the message of hope for anyone who thinks they are without hope. And if you feel you are without hope please keep digging into this. He is always found by those who seek Him.
@@ericashepherd9777 Hey, I'm just pointing out what Scripture actually says, not what we would like it to say. And you are correct; Scripture must gel, and so while Hebrews 6:4-8 must gel with all the other verses, all the other verses must also gel with this verse. And let's be frank here; the subject of assured salvation is full of eisegisis. Every time I see someone try to support this concept with Scripture I see them string along multiple verses that do not explicitly state that salvation is assured, but rather support that interpretation if one were to come up with the idea outside of Scripture.
@@ericashepherd9777 28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”- 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.” Mark - 3:28-30
Im sure yall will just say it means something else, but it explains what Edward is saying. So no one verse doesnt undo anything.
You just dont understand what falling away is. Backsliding is not the same thing. Falling away is knowing the Holy Spirit and then deciding you dont want to follow Jesus. Its a willful action that you are completely aware of. Its not something you do by accident. You do what satan did when you fall away.
Yea I just read Hebrews 6:4-8 again.... yea for me I think that's pretty hard to argue against. But we don't always know who's really tasted the fruits of the spirit, and who's stll on their way there (except for ourselves... I hope).
@@mastershake4641 Exactly. And we have to be careful not to take the bait and switch here. The verse about tasting the spirit and falling away is not the most important part of that passage. It is the part where it says one cannot be brought back to repentance because Jesus cannot be crucified again. This 100% gels with Jesus' comment about blasphemy against the Holy Spirit in Luke 12:10, another verse where I hear a lot of pretty interpretations that seem to amount to eisegesis. And to be sure, I'm not suggesting the Catholics and Orthodox are 100% right about this; rather I'm suggesting the Bible says things, and we should not try to make it fit our interpretation, but rather adjust our interpretation to fit what the Bible actually says. Those other individuals are great at guiding us, but they were all flawed human beings as well.
Can someone guide me to the article that John Piper wrote that if he was a Christian for 25 years and then if he committed a murder, then he would have to doubt the fact that he was actually saved 25 years ago...or something to that extent. I heard Leighton address it somewhere but I am not sure which video and hence I am asking for your help
One of my family members had a bumper sticker on his 4x4 that said IF YOU CAN EARN IT, THEN WHY DID HE DIE? People would walk over to the truck and ask us, What does it mean? Great witnessing to but my goodness it shuts some people down
Well shoot. I’ve always held the Arminian view on this, apparently. I’ve never heard it logically, theologically, and philosophically explained before. I may have to think on this a while.
And coming back over a month later, I lean much more to Leightons explanation. We can’t tell for sure if someone is saved or not, so if in doubt, should treat them as though full repentance is needed. But should also have confidence that if we know we are saved, and our lives demonstrate change, have confidence in the Keeper.
I do also think that if one goes so far as to teach false doctrine prevalently, that is good evidence they were never saved. For example, Paul never refers to the Judaizers themselves as believers, but the Galatians were and he warned them. Any among them who changed and returned, proved their saving faith or repented unto saving faith. Any who followed the false teachers out of the fellowship, probably never were saved. I can roll with that interpretation and even see how it is better than repudiation.
@@RoyceVanBlaricome I meant that I hadn’t heard it well explained prior to listening to this video. As I remember, I agree with Leightons interpretation.
Anyway, I don’t think your answer addressed what my old question was about those who fell away.
You should study free grace theology. I don't agree 100 percent but it does seem to be closest to scripture.
@@RoyceVanBlaricome I have no idea what you believe.
Unconditional eternal security: myth or truth? By French Arrington.
Myth
If fought with this question on eternal security for at least 20 long years. I'm truly exhausted on the topic and am no closer knowing which sight is correct
Two points that could clearly indicate the first circle Leighton are valid,once saved lost,as here:
#1 a true believer inside the 70th week,in great pain as being lied to by pretrib teachers&THEY NOT AIRLIFTED,apostacize inspite of having the ROOT,&THEN disgusted take the mark of the beast&obviously are erased from the Book of life...,#2 just as Jesus clearly tells those in the church at Sardis,if the members WHO ALREADY WERE WEARING THE WHITE ROBES OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,ALLOWED THEM TO REMAIN SOILED,JESUS SAID SAYS CLEARLY HE COULD/WOULD ERASE THEIR NAMES FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE.
This is reality,as well as practical.These believers did not get out of the 'flames.',in the end.
Agree?
I really enjoy&agree with all you said in these great talks.
Bob74
I wish you could talk more in-depth about the subject. I have watch a couple of your other videos on the subject, but I do not see you addressing how many southern baptist preachers are defining perseverance of the saints. Many preacher are referring to not attending church every Sunday, not serving in church ministries, not witnessing on a regular basis,etc. as not persevering (I once had a friend call me after many years of not seeing each other and tell me that he accepted Jesus as his savior because he SAW the way I lived my life, I never witness to him with words)
This goes so quickly into works. You have to be so careful here. Do you really feel that way? Because your terms maybe different, but with Calvinism creeping into every aspect of southern Baptist life, you cannot make undefined statements like this. What exactly is involved in persevering?
Answer:
God! :)
Romans 14:4
“Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.”
At the 7:18 mark said it all. Yes, one can walk away from Salvation. One can be saved (present tense) and choose to walk away from that salvation. To say that you cannot do so ignores Scriptures and turns the New Covenant into a one sided promise. Christ did not say, "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth, at least at one point, in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." Eternal Security is neither eternal nor secure until we die.
When many turned away from Jesus he said to his disciples
Will ye also turn away
Where would we go you have
The words of eternal life!
True, but they were not reborn spiritually, when you are born of the flesh from your mother you cannot be unborn or go back into your mother's womb. John 3:4-6. Once we are recreated, we cannot stop being a child of God.
My oldest brother is a calvinist and he said that saying the sinners pray isn’t Biblical
Since it’s not in the Bible he’d be correct. That alone would not make him a Calvinist.