And also the opposite of that. Snyder haters who hate on every thing snyder does for no reason is hilarious. Remember people saying man of steel was a bad movie 💀
Yeah. Not saying Whedon even could have made a good film if he was attached from the beginning, but coming in so late and trying to get the amount of content Snyder had down to a studio acceptable runtime was never going to make for a very satisfying film
Wow. That was some essay! I really liked it. I didn’t expect to, because I figured just about everything that could be said about the subject had been. However, you definitely bring in some new insights. And I pretty much agree with almost everything you said. Thanks for taking the time. As a writer and cinefule myself, I appreciate your perspective. Subscribed. Keep up the good work. I’ll check out other videos of yours. Good luck on your creative career.
Wonder Woman didn’t compell Aquaman.The lasso does,Wonder Woman even explains that in Justice League when she questioned the guy at the museum. I didn't feel Snyder did a good job on story. He is great on visuals. For a character that was raised by humans and grew up on earth clark was very alien to me. The things he seemed to learn about humanity came from his Kryptonain father while his human parents kept teaching fear. What was he supposed to learn from the death of Johnathan Kent? Man of Steel just left questions that weren’t answered in Justice League. Batman the worlds greatest detective doesn't have much of a plan in Snyder's universe. The way he gathered information. The way he had no plan for when Superman wakes up even though he knew how powerful he is. The whole Martian Man hunter being in both films but was fine with Superman being killed and all the humans being killed. The whole disguise himself as Clark's mom to have a conversation with Lois just didn't make sense. He is as powerful as Superman. Lex knowing so much about Superman and Batman didn’t seem to make sense and his plan to make them fight each other didn't make sense either. I'm fine with DC being gritty and dark but there is no reason for me to care about these characters. Superman dies in the second movie? Snyder takes 3 books and smashed them together to make Batman V Superman. His Justice League just wasn't very good in either version. Snyder's is better than the theater release but that bar is low. I'm looking forward to the new DC. Love the video and your take. I can't think of a good Snyder film. He had a hit with 300 but not much after. Still don't know what he was thinking with suckerpunch.
Whedon got started on TV, like you said, but Snyder got started on music videos and I think that gives it even more credence to what you're saying. TV is talking and music videos are action
lol. imagine having a problem with Joss correcting Snyder's bad jokes. you may not like the Joss edited version but it makes the heroes more sensible act better than the ZSJL. maybe you should go watch Mauler roast of it. are you sure you didn't watch it in reverse? Cyborg's suit malfunction makes more sense when it caused an issue in the 2017 version but not in Snyder's JL cut, and the Wonder woman and Bruce scene is so perfect to show how Bruce has grown to understand Superman. Same with his discussion with Alfred. If you think ZSJL makes more sense, then you weren't paying attention but rushing to get ur bias confirmed
@@silverstrike5904 100% I met him at his festival screening for his movies. You know- that infamous clip of him saying "wake the fuck up" I'm in that crowd sitting behind his wife. Anyway- He signed people merch to with his name and the number 214- saying that's my official run time..
And how many hours does it equal 214 minutes? 💀 Edit: don't forget 214 might've been the time without the slow-mo done, and he got to add scenes that he either didn't get to film or outright added last minute because his Max film was going to be his last time (knightmare scene and Bruce talking with MM)
Did you know that Marvel Comics made Phil Coulson an specialist operative and agent for Hell. Like, Phil's jon is to spread Hell into the mortal realm. Stay Classy, Marvel !
I totally agree about DC having such a different tone thematically than Marvel, like the base material, it's supposed to be darker and less colorful. DC stories were always more gritty while Marvel started with soap opera vibes. If you take that material and try to make it feel like Marvel, it's not going to work. I wonder if DC has a difficult job just in that I don't think this is the right time culturally for gritty, dark (unself-aware or unironic) stories. There's a cultural wave that happens, and we see this throughout comic book history, of stories getting darker and darker and then turning back to humor and lightness and goodness, and then when that gets too cotton candy and rainbows, it gets dark again, based on waves of what people need at that time. It's how we get something sooo dark and cynical as Watchmen in the 80s, which is also a time when we got our first live action Batman movie, which worked well, even though it was so stylized and ridiculous in its way, it was still cool at the time. But then it's no surprise that in the 90s animated series, we get Harley Quinn. The cycle was coming back around and we needed some levity. But we saw a gritty, dark Batman movie come and go recently with like barely a ripple of public notice. With people so depressed and anxious, maybe it's not the right time for dark. We already feel dark, we want some lightness, or at least some chaos, some hope that the structures can be flipped and the weights lifted. That's why I think people have attached so wholeheartedly to Deadpool, who has these horrible things happening but keeps a sense of humor about it. I think you're 100% right that a mix of darkness and humor is the right answer for the franchise. They need to keep true to the source material but find ways to find the humor in that. Like, as you pointed out, Batman isn't a person who makes jokes. But there are plenty to be made *about* him. Great video! I only caught the end of the premier but I'm going to rewatch the whole thing later.
"DC stories were always more gritty while Marvel started with soap opera vibes." Where did this myth/lie come from? I have been reading DC comics since the late 1970s and went back and read many of the older ones that came out before that. DC, like Marvel, has always had a variety of tones. Batman is dark and gritty, and really even that is a change that came about in the 1980s. One of the most annoying arguments of the Snyder supporters is that DC is supposed to be dark and the problem people were having with his films is that they were not "bright" like Marvel films/comics.
That “myth/lie” Is based on my own opinion of the comics after reading the first hundred issues of Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, The Fantastic Four, and the Avengers, respectively. After reading the original stories, I found DC to have darker themes, while Marvel focused on the interpersonal drama of the heroes, which is something Stan Lee said he did on purpose.
I didn’t see the Snyder movies, I’m basing my opinion off reading the first 100 issues each of Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, the Fantastic Four, and the Avengers comics.
@rileysmith5048 first one hundred issues? Do you mean the first appearance? If so that's a terrible way to read, batman superman and wonderwoman are so different today, the fantastic four Lee and Kirby stuff is great tho
for the love of god, people (i have seen lately more and more youtubers doing this) either more lights or use other Shutter speed for the camera cos the rolling shutter effect is really jarring, especially cos how the video is made ( i mean you have so many cuts, there is literally cuts between every point you make or even between sentences) this format int it self is not easy cos of the cuts, cos you can hear them, but now the rolling shutter differences make it really jarring.
I'm surpriced you didn't bring up that batman is killing people at bvs that really is the worst thing about the movie for me tbh... also it's dark(side)seid😂
What we know about Superman: He was shamed by his father to never save people He'll be more times thinking "I don't care about what they say" yet will doubt himself about saving people constantly Doesn't go to the point when talking to Batman about Luthor holding Martha hostage just to fight him a bit What we know about Batman: He kills goons but not the Joker, Harley Quinn (both of them killed his only Robin, Dick Grayson) He mixes alcohol with painkillers (so he's high more often than not) Was supposed to bang Lois when her fiance was 3ft down because of his BS and he said he would not fail Clark in death...
Snyder's Justice League would have been about as well recoeved as his other films completey divisive among the fan base. And dedpite what people say DC wasnt always a darker universe in the comics Dark characters were dark light hearted characters were light hearted. Unlike Marvel Comics which was all created in the same universe the DC characters werent always under one label ans they were a binch of small.companies that ended up forming one company eventually
@@christianscheffler4398 I get that he changed the ending but he didn't make the Flash. In fact I felt Ezra Miller was actually good in the film but he brought all that outside baggage from being a criminal in real life. I just couldn't care about the movie because it isn't going anywhere in the future. Same with Blue Beetle,Black Adam,Shazam and Aquaman. Why should the audience invest in these stories if DC is getting a reboot.
@@Ron-ep3zl I do agree with some of your comments but he made my favorite dc character the flash to be dumb and Virginity I never wanted a reboot I never did I hope you understand
Snyder did a goddamn terrible job at adapting DC. What the hell are you talking about? You can like his movies all you want. That's perfectly fine. But to act like most DC fans wanted the Snyderverse is just wrong.
Well it's her post so she can give her opinions whether you like it or not. What's wrong you Snyder a$$ kisser you mad because she didn't like something by your cult leader? You people are absolutely positively ridiculous
Omfg, guardians of the galaxy wtf !!! Sorry i watch a movie for a good story and action not for childish jokes or mocking its main characters.. like gunn does with guardians of the galaxy.
Except the Guardians movies gave some of the best storytelling in the MCU. Guardians 3 was dark AF for a PG-13 superhero movie, it took everyone's stories very seriously for the most part. I have a hunch that you don't actually know what the hell you're talking about.
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 lol, and you don't know the guardians I guess... And good story telling if your a kid sure but for me it's just another popcorn flick nothing more. I would rather watch captain America winter soldier or Ironman 1 Or another movie but 'not guardians... I watched it 2 times and I've already seen it enough. While man of steel I watched more then 10, BvS more then that and Snyders cut around 8 times. I want a gripping story not something that is goofy and silly. And what do you know about the guardians ?? Tell me which origins did he change for his freaking movie and what isn't even in the comic let me hear it if you're all wise and have knowledge of guardians as you claim !!! Because I rather see Snyder's Superman then Gunn. I want good Heroes that doesn't get mocked by side characters or other Heroes for no reason but to give children a good time or fill time.
Synder bros who get triggered by every critic of Synder films, will never cease to be hilarious.
And also the opposite of that. Snyder haters who hate on every thing snyder does for no reason is hilarious. Remember people saying man of steel was a bad movie 💀
It's funny how not only the Snyder's fans keep his name trending, the Snyder's haters do it too 😅
@@jcmartinez1808 So true. He lives in their heads rent free
@@Homelander-i9r Not for "no reason".
Remember that plot point about Superman having some kryptonian codex inside his body and Zod trying to take it out of him ?
Well Whedon in JL he was basically trying to alter and retell someone else's story at the last minute its a no win situation
Yeah. Not saying Whedon even could have made a good film if he was attached from the beginning, but coming in so late and trying to get the amount of content Snyder had down to a studio acceptable runtime was never going to make for a very satisfying film
@alearnedman yeah thats my point it was a no win situation trying to tell someone else's story last minute
Wow. That was some essay! I really liked it. I didn’t expect to, because I figured just about everything that could be said about the subject had been. However, you definitely bring in some new insights. And I pretty much agree with almost everything you said.
Thanks for taking the time. As a writer and cinefule myself, I appreciate your perspective.
Subscribed. Keep up the good work. I’ll check out other videos of yours. Good luck on your creative career.
Wonder Woman didn’t compell Aquaman.The lasso does,Wonder Woman even explains that in Justice League when she questioned the guy at the museum. I didn't feel Snyder did a good job on story. He is great on visuals. For a character that was raised by humans and grew up on earth clark was very alien to me. The things he seemed to learn about humanity came from his Kryptonain father while his human parents kept teaching fear. What was he supposed to learn from the death of Johnathan Kent? Man of Steel just left questions that weren’t answered in Justice League. Batman the worlds greatest detective doesn't have much of a plan in Snyder's universe. The way he gathered information. The way he had no plan for when Superman wakes up even though he knew how powerful he is. The whole Martian Man hunter being in both films but was fine with Superman being killed and all the humans being killed. The whole disguise himself as Clark's mom to have a conversation with Lois just didn't make sense. He is as powerful as Superman. Lex knowing so much about Superman and Batman didn’t seem to make sense and his plan to make them fight each other didn't make sense either. I'm fine with DC being gritty and dark but there is no reason for me to care about these characters. Superman dies in the second movie? Snyder takes 3 books and smashed them together to make Batman V Superman. His Justice League just wasn't very good in either version. Snyder's is better than the theater release but that bar is low. I'm looking forward to the new DC. Love the video and your take. I can't think of a good Snyder film. He had a hit with 300 but not much after. Still don't know what he was thinking with suckerpunch.
Wooooohoooo a new channel i found to obsess over, great content.
Whedon got started on TV, like you said, but Snyder got started on music videos and I think that gives it even more credence to what you're saying. TV is talking and music videos are action
Not to mention Whedon is a nepo baby too
Great video! Love long form reviews like these. Can’t wait for the future DCU.
lol. imagine having a problem with Joss correcting Snyder's bad jokes.
you may not like the Joss edited version but it makes the heroes more sensible act better than the ZSJL. maybe you should go watch Mauler roast of it.
are you sure you didn't watch it in reverse? Cyborg's suit malfunction makes more sense when it caused an issue in the 2017 version but not in Snyder's JL cut, and the Wonder woman and Bruce scene is so perfect to show how Bruce has grown to understand Superman. Same with his discussion with Alfred.
If you think ZSJL makes more sense, then you weren't paying attention but rushing to get ur bias confirmed
ZSJL was a masterpiece 🔥
@@Homelander-i9r whatever you say bub
@@iammatthews 😘
You did a great job!
Solid video. Great POV.
14:54 They trying to match Heath Ledger’s Joker + Gene Heckman’s Lex Luthor and failing so hard
Cool to see Merphy Napier branching out into reviewing movies
Zack Snyder's Justice League is my last Superman Movie.
Forever.
@@seanpvs101moviesproduction3
"Superman: Legacy.Hype Hype Hype"
Not Impressed.
😆😅🤣😂
I will never pay a penny for a DC product with Gunns name attached.
@@blacksuit5614 Justice League was not even a Superman movie. He was barely in it. In both versions.
Gayyyyy
@@JaseCano
James Gunn is Gay.
Keep going!
Snyders original theatrical JL cut was not 4 hrs.. it was 214 minutes. He just went for 4hrs on MAX
You sure?
@@silverstrike5904 100% I met him at his festival screening for his movies. You know- that infamous clip of him saying "wake the fuck up" I'm in that crowd sitting behind his wife.
Anyway- He signed people merch to with his name and the number 214- saying that's my official run time..
@@fourth1000 okay
And how many hours does it equal 214 minutes? 💀
Edit: don't forget 214 might've been the time without the slow-mo done, and he got to add scenes that he either didn't get to film or outright added last minute because his Max film was going to be his last time (knightmare scene and Bruce talking with MM)
@@ivanagustinortiz5237 he had the movie edited and finalized to 214. So that includes slowmotion.
Those scenes he added were not planned at that time.
Did you know that Marvel Comics made Phil Coulson an specialist operative and agent for Hell. Like, Phil's jon is to spread Hell into the mortal realm.
Stay Classy, Marvel !
I totally agree about DC having such a different tone thematically than Marvel, like the base material, it's supposed to be darker and less colorful. DC stories were always more gritty while Marvel started with soap opera vibes. If you take that material and try to make it feel like Marvel, it's not going to work.
I wonder if DC has a difficult job just in that I don't think this is the right time culturally for gritty, dark (unself-aware or unironic) stories. There's a cultural wave that happens, and we see this throughout comic book history, of stories getting darker and darker and then turning back to humor and lightness and goodness, and then when that gets too cotton candy and rainbows, it gets dark again, based on waves of what people need at that time.
It's how we get something sooo dark and cynical as Watchmen in the 80s, which is also a time when we got our first live action Batman movie, which worked well, even though it was so stylized and ridiculous in its way, it was still cool at the time.
But then it's no surprise that in the 90s animated series, we get Harley Quinn. The cycle was coming back around and we needed some levity.
But we saw a gritty, dark Batman movie come and go recently with like barely a ripple of public notice. With people so depressed and anxious, maybe it's not the right time for dark. We already feel dark, we want some lightness, or at least some chaos, some hope that the structures can be flipped and the weights lifted.
That's why I think people have attached so wholeheartedly to Deadpool, who has these horrible things happening but keeps a sense of humor about it.
I think you're 100% right that a mix of darkness and humor is the right answer for the franchise. They need to keep true to the source material but find ways to find the humor in that.
Like, as you pointed out, Batman isn't a person who makes jokes. But there are plenty to be made *about* him.
Great video! I only caught the end of the premier but I'm going to rewatch the whole thing later.
"DC stories were always more gritty while Marvel started with soap opera vibes."
Where did this myth/lie come from? I have been reading DC comics since the late 1970s and went back and read many of the older ones that came out before that. DC, like Marvel, has always had a variety of tones. Batman is dark and gritty, and really even that is a change that came about in the 1980s. One of the most annoying arguments of the Snyder supporters is that DC is supposed to be dark and the problem people were having with his films is that they were not "bright" like Marvel films/comics.
That “myth/lie” Is based on my own opinion of the comics after reading the first hundred issues of Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, The Fantastic Four, and the Avengers, respectively. After reading the original stories, I found DC to have darker themes, while Marvel focused on the interpersonal drama of the heroes, which is something Stan Lee said he did on purpose.
All of that is so wrong 😭 i hate snyder making people think dc is "dark and gritty"
I didn’t see the Snyder movies, I’m basing my opinion off reading the first 100 issues each of Batman, Superman, Wonderwoman, the Fantastic Four, and the Avengers comics.
@rileysmith5048 first one hundred issues? Do you mean the first appearance? If so that's a terrible way to read, batman superman and wonderwoman are so different today, the fantastic four Lee and Kirby stuff is great tho
If it was a 4 hour movie cut down to 2 I’m surprised they didn’t just do a part 1 and 2 instead
I like your sloth
for the love of god, people (i have seen lately more and more youtubers doing this) either more lights or use other Shutter speed for the camera cos the rolling shutter effect is really jarring, especially cos how the video is made ( i mean you have so many cuts, there is literally cuts between every point you make or even between sentences)
this format int it self is not easy cos of the cuts, cos you can hear them, but now the rolling shutter differences make it really jarring.
Oh the DCEU was pretty popular, just not for the reasons they hoped 😂
Keep making content like THIS....and you WILL get hired. One thing, Thanos (1973) is a "knock-off of Darkseid (1970). Otherwise GREAT ANALYSIS.
I like your sloth in the back.
I'm surpriced you didn't bring up that batman is killing people at bvs that really is the worst thing about the movie for me tbh... also it's dark(side)seid😂
Marthaaaaaaaaaa!
I like the Zack Snyder's Justice League but wouldn't call it a good movie lol
Zack snyders justice league was a masterpiece. #restorethesnyderverse
“I also thought was kind of silly” that’s because that’s what Snyder is going for….
I feel like his Netflix movies are his attempt to really spell out his genre burlesque aesthetic
I feel like I know Superman and Batman better way better then any Marvel movie.
@@MarcelinoSoliz i feel and know that either your a biased Synderverse fan or your working on your stand up material
What we know about Superman:
He was shamed by his father to never save people
He'll be more times thinking "I don't care about what they say" yet will doubt himself about saving people constantly
Doesn't go to the point when talking to Batman about Luthor holding Martha hostage just to fight him a bit
What we know about Batman:
He kills goons but not the Joker, Harley Quinn (both of them killed his only Robin, Dick Grayson)
He mixes alcohol with painkillers (so he's high more often than not)
Was supposed to bang Lois when her fiance was 3ft down because of his BS and he said he would not fail Clark in death...
Good for you because Snyder didn't
Snyder's Justice League would have been about as well recoeved as his other films completey divisive among the fan base. And dedpite what people say DC wasnt always a darker universe in the comics Dark characters were dark light hearted characters were light hearted. Unlike Marvel Comics which was all created in the same universe the DC characters werent always under one label ans they were a binch of small.companies that ended up forming one company eventually
Skipped Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman so you don't get the set up of Batman's relationship with Wonder Woman in JL.
James Gunn ruined DC universe and ruin my favorite DC character
Which character would that be that he ruined?
Him right now but if we’re talking about in general and over the years I’d say WB has been ruiner(?) if that even is a real word.
I am talking about he ruined the flash
@@christianscheffler4398 I get that he changed the ending but he didn't make the Flash. In fact I felt Ezra Miller was actually good in the film but he brought all that outside baggage from being a criminal in real life. I just couldn't care about the movie because it isn't going anywhere in the future. Same with Blue Beetle,Black Adam,Shazam and Aquaman. Why should the audience invest in these stories if DC is getting a reboot.
@@Ron-ep3zl I do agree with some of your comments but he made my favorite dc character the flash to be dumb and Virginity I never wanted a reboot I never did I hope you understand
"I got COVID"
I wish that's where your story ended
its not Darksid its DarkSeid, you say it like wood siding but omit the ing.
Someone needs to fire James Gunn Peter saffron and everyone associated with them and put in people that care about the franchise.
I god news for you. Stick to the Marvel universe exclusively. Thank you we do not care about your opinions.
Snyder did a goddamn terrible job at adapting DC. What the hell are you talking about? You can like his movies all you want. That's perfectly fine. But to act like most DC fans wanted the Snyderverse is just wrong.
Aww someone is mad😂
I think you do care about her opinions. That's why you seem so butthurt in your responce. LOL
Well it's her post so she can give her opinions whether you like it or not. What's wrong you Snyder a$$ kisser you mad because she didn't like something by your cult leader? You people are absolutely positively ridiculous
Omfg, guardians of the galaxy wtf !!! Sorry i watch a movie for a good story and action not for childish jokes or mocking its main characters.. like gunn does with guardians of the galaxy.
Except the Guardians movies gave some of the best storytelling in the MCU. Guardians 3 was dark AF for a PG-13 superhero movie, it took everyone's stories very seriously for the most part. I have a hunch that you don't actually know what the hell you're talking about.
@@andyroobrick-a-brack9355 lol, and you don't know the guardians I guess... And good story telling if your a kid sure but for me it's just another popcorn flick nothing more. I would rather watch captain America winter soldier or Ironman 1 Or another movie but 'not guardians... I watched it 2 times and I've already seen it enough. While man of steel I watched more then 10, BvS more then that and Snyders cut around 8 times. I want a gripping story not something that is goofy and silly. And what do you know about the guardians ?? Tell me which origins did he change for his freaking movie and what isn't even in the comic let me hear it if you're all wise and have knowledge of guardians as you claim !!! Because I rather see Snyder's Superman then Gunn. I want good Heroes that doesn't get mocked by side characters or other Heroes for no reason but to give children a good time or fill time.
HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
@@fkim8449 😂😂😂😂 touch grass you freak