I have adopted a lot of technique from my time spent in big cedars as a west coast faller. Big old growth cedars in particular usually have had their tops snap off however many hundred years ago, so getting them to tip can be difficult and you are often encouraged by old dudes, but discouraged by industry standards to make the undercuts up to 50%. Part of this is to capture weight of the stem(like you referenced) secondly to make sure that your bar will reach all the wood in the back cut. I reference this because I have started(in certain contexts) cutting the guts of my holding wood out from the undercut side on big stems instead of keeping the guts and nipping the sap wood at point of hinge. I’ve even gone as far as boring right through to the back so that I have a kerf to reference when starting my backcut so everything lines up perfectly and that also contributes to things snapping off symmetrically. I save having any kind of step for when there is any brushing of the rest of the canopy going on or a rope putting downward pulling tension, otherwise there is no risk in things hopping back off the stump. I’ve admired your videos for a long time and they were a major factor in me transitioning from a life of kaulks and long bars, to my current life as a residential climber. Love to you all
An absolute multitude of factors are needed to take into account in decisions like these - which we make while working every day/a hundred times a day- and throw in different/personal/experience, and taste for godsake, you’ll end up debating yourself into oblivion. I’ll always rely on learned experience from myself and those I respect around me. And, yes, I realize I wrote a word salad.
I prefer narrow notch and chase the hinge as the top goes over while maintaining the skinniest hinge required to hold the top in the direction you need it to go. I say narrow notch because it doesn't allow the top to pull the tree over very far before the hinge breaks or you completely sever it. I think chasing the hinge is the most important part though. The stronger the hinge, the more it's going to pull the tree sideways. On a really dead tree, once I have the top moving the direction I want it to go, I'm cutting through the hinge completely. I don't want it to apply any side pressure.
my 10 years of actual professional cutting falls in line with pretty much exactly what your saying. narrow notches for everything that isn't wood. A 300 lbs piece of Wood's fulcrum is totally different than a 20 foot 200lbs limb. That always baffled me the years that I began cutting. How wood fiber essentially changes properties when there is no "head weight."
Glad to see some content from you! For me, I just do what feels right for the situation. Everything is situational and that is where experience makes the biggest difference. Something I will say is that in certain situations I would personally prefer a Humboldt or open face when chasing the hinge to give me time to catch up if I am halfing out something with a lot of fiber and I am trying not to go for a rodeo ride but I have also just used a smaller than normal notch if I know the wood constitution is not super strong. I think in your specific situation I probably would have reasoned exactly the same thing but these are not even conscious thoughts, again experience will always dictate what feels right.
I've never seen a tree removal video on RUclips, that doesn't have an argument or disagreement in the comment section. Tree guys are so prideful & love to throw their knowledge around. Great explanation as always Lawrence
Working in trees is different based on factors of that day/how you feel. I think most climbers have a great sense and ability to keep themselves safe. Enjoy your stuff!
Seems like a narrow Humboldt style for top doesn't push the stem as much. Reg Cotes talks about it a bit in a video. I've had good luck. Same with the deep notch on vertical standing wood
I bet a narrow traditional notch (closes with cuts horizontal) and a back cut under the notch (to allow the top to slide backwards off the cut, watchout!!) would reduce forces on the spar. Definitely not recommended, but maybe there is an application. Just make sure it doesn't land on your lanyard
I have adopted a lot of technique from my time spent in big cedars as a west coast faller. Big old growth cedars in particular usually have had their tops snap off however many hundred years ago, so getting them to tip can be difficult and you are often encouraged by old dudes, but discouraged by industry standards to make the undercuts up to 50%. Part of this is to capture weight of the stem(like you referenced) secondly to make sure that your bar will reach all the wood in the back cut. I reference this because I have started(in certain contexts) cutting the guts of my holding wood out from the undercut side on big stems instead of keeping the guts and nipping the sap wood at point of hinge. I’ve even gone as far as boring right through to the back so that I have a kerf to reference when starting my backcut so everything lines up perfectly and that also contributes to things snapping off symmetrically. I save having any kind of step for when there is any brushing of the rest of the canopy going on or a rope putting downward pulling tension, otherwise there is no risk in things hopping back off the stump.
I’ve admired your videos for a long time and they were a major factor in me transitioning from a life of kaulks and long bars, to my current life as a residential climber.
Love to you all
An absolute multitude of factors are needed to take into account in decisions like these - which we make while working every day/a hundred times a day- and throw in different/personal/experience, and taste for godsake, you’ll end up debating yourself into oblivion. I’ll always rely on learned experience from myself and those I respect around me.
And, yes, I realize I wrote a word salad.
I prefer narrow notch and chase the hinge as the top goes over while maintaining the skinniest hinge required to hold the top in the direction you need it to go. I say narrow notch because it doesn't allow the top to pull the tree over very far before the hinge breaks or you completely sever it. I think chasing the hinge is the most important part though. The stronger the hinge, the more it's going to pull the tree sideways. On a really dead tree, once I have the top moving the direction I want it to go, I'm cutting through the hinge completely. I don't want it to apply any side pressure.
my 10 years of actual professional cutting falls in line with pretty much exactly what your saying. narrow notches for everything that isn't wood. A 300 lbs piece of Wood's fulcrum is totally different than a 20 foot 200lbs limb. That always baffled me the years that I began cutting. How wood fiber essentially changes properties when there is no "head weight."
I recommend to all arborists not just the experienced follow the examples the working climber by Gerald baranek
Can’t wait for more
Glad to see some content from you! For me, I just do what feels right for the situation. Everything is situational and that is where experience makes the biggest difference. Something I will say is that in certain situations I would personally prefer a Humboldt or open face when chasing the hinge to give me time to catch up if I am halfing out something with a lot of fiber and I am trying not to go for a rodeo ride but I have also just used a smaller than normal notch if I know the wood constitution is not super strong. I think in your specific situation I probably would have reasoned exactly the same thing but these are not even conscious thoughts, again experience will always dictate what feels right.
Keep the educational content coming, thank you
Very good topic I’ve seen this debate manifest on multiple occasions . Great stuff
I've never seen a tree removal video on RUclips, that doesn't have an argument or disagreement in the comment section. Tree guys are so prideful & love to throw their knowledge around. Great explanation as always Lawrence
Until you're face to face asking for advice.
💫
Pfannerman lives!!
Working in trees is different based on factors of that day/how you feel. I think most climbers have a great sense and ability to keep themselves safe. Enjoy your stuff!
Seems like a narrow Humboldt style for top doesn't push the stem as much. Reg Cotes talks about it a bit in a video. I've had good luck. Same with the deep notch on vertical standing wood
🙌💚🙏
Excellent .
Every 6 months will get a what am I doing and why. The people demand more dag nammit!
Rock on 🤘
Well look who it is. No, I'm not stalking you. 😅
When Lawrence speaks, people listen.
narrow notches and big tops are sketchy. fir trees especially.
I bet a narrow traditional notch (closes with cuts horizontal) and a back cut under the notch (to allow the top to slide backwards off the cut, watchout!!) would reduce forces on the spar. Definitely not recommended, but maybe there is an application. Just make sure it doesn't land on your lanyard
Thanks folks! Thanks Lawrence. 🪓🤙🤴