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My Response To The Missing Doors of Stone Chapter | Kingkiller Chronicle Controversy
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- Опубликовано: 12 авг 2024
- Today I'm responding to the missing Doors of Stone chapter that Patrick Rothfuss promised us after his charity fundraiser stretch goals were reached back in 2021. Waiting for The Kingkiller Chronicle book 3 would be much easier if the author communicated better, but it makes it even worse when he doesn't deliver on a promise.
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What are your thoughts on the missing chapter?
i personally think this video was neccessary, but it feels like you didn't give it enough time to think about the topic. There is so much more to it than you seem to think. Of cause i don't know either, but i won't start to assume things.
This comment section is also sad - people shouldn't donate to get something off it. They should be happy when they get something, but they shouldn't take it for granted. I also donated some bucks and i'm also sad that we didn't get the Chapter so far, but it is what it is.
We still have to try to make this world a better place for everyone.
Take this with a grain of salt, but there is allegedly an open lawsuit in Wisconsin where he is the defendant and his ex is the plaintiff. There is no more information on that, but if this is true, it could explain his current silence on everything - not being on twitch for months, no blog posts, etc.
He continues to show us through actions who he actually is. I gave up on him/his series when he broke his word. Again.
An undelivered promise without explanation does nothing except give signs of intended dishonesty and manipulation -- a scam. He is truly one of the greatest fantasy authors alive, no doubt, no question -- his talent is unparalleled as far as I can see. I STRIVE to have a fraction of his writing abilities. But he's either overestimated himself and is to prideful to admit it, OR (as I myself personally am inclined to suspect) become so crippled by the potential terror from the pressure of this book achieving the buildup and the hype that this drawn out gap between volumes WITHOUT communication has caused, that perhaps his intended vision of how to specifically release this chapter as the beginning of the saga's comeback, and something went awry in the planning, that now he's hovelled up and terrified to release it unless it's only revealed to the world perfectly. At least, my own speculation from observing the man from the outside looking in over the years, and the periodic outbursts he displays when really pressured by fans for any information at all. But when he's calmer and in a better place mentally is more communicative and provides much better understanding. It's a shame. It really makes you become disheartened that this series that is SO beloved will never finish.
I think his publisher told him no on the chapter. I am choosing to continue to give him the benefit of the doubt. We have no idea what happened.
Patrick is the reason that I won’t start reading a trilogy or saga unless I know it finished
I share that sentiment. I do gotta thank PR though. Saved me from Game of Thrones.
Exactly. Rothfuss soured me too. It’s the only series where the author said the series was finished before the 1st book was published and 16 years later the 3rd hasn’t been released. Something stinks in Kvothe’s world.
It is a shame that Rothfuss and Martin have built that sentiment into the fantasy community. Writer's should be allowed to take their time writing their books. But I twelve year wait with no publishing date in sight is absurd.
@@TheJadedJames yeah nah if it's literally a very real possibility that the author dies before finishing his own book series it's actually a super bad idea to get invested in it
@@seidenstickerj People wouldn't be thinking like that if Martin/Rothfuss weren't taking so long. Robert Jordan/Stieg Larsson situations would be tragic outliers we wouldn't think that hard about. With these two high profile fantasy series that might never actually get finished, everyone who interacts with the genre is forced reckon with the impact of unfinished stories. And this is unfair to new writers who might need a few years to finish their stories, but don't exactly plan to leave you hanging for decades either (Like ... if you were curious about what happened with Brianne and Lady Stoneheart and Sansa ... Martin has left you hanging for nearly two decades at this point)
I can’t wait for Doors of Stone by Brandon Sanderson to come out! I’m so excited!
Edit and disclaimer in reaction to a few comments: I apologize if this comment lacked enough context, but I was more making a joke about how Brandon Sanderson finished the WOT series after Robert Jordan passed away and Rothfuss’ lack of book, rather than suggesting Sanderson be able to mimic the writing style of Rothfuss. The only reason Sanderson was a good choice to finish WOT was because his writing style was heavily influenced by Robert Jordan along with his extensive knowledge of the series. Despite him being a great author, I would never actually suggest Sanderson complete the Kingkiller Chronicles. Rothfuss is a great author also (despite the hiatus) and very few people would be able to actually replicate his writing style. I do honestly believe that DOS will not be released prior to Rothfuss’ RIP date though unfortunately. It makes me sad to think about, but if it were going to be released it would have been by now.
Unironically yes
Give Sanderson one day to read the published books, one day to plan, and one day to write and we'll have DOS and 2 extra novels
Sanderson will make it 40000 pages and stretch it into 20 books.
@@kylemundy8871 I'll take that, something is alot better than nothing
@@captain7892 It wouldn't be the same book if Sanderson finished it. He's good, but I'd rather wait and take a chance on something great than stick with something good. IMO no book 3 is better than a book 3 that's disappointing
I treat this story like im guest in tavern that been there for 2 days listening cool story,but i had to hit road third day so i never heard ending..
Oh man this is such a great way to look at it.
I like this mindset and may have to adopt it
on the other hand it is a story, that would make you stay, for another day, even if there is someone waiting for you
That’s such a dope idea. There’s always a small chance you’ll meet someone in a different tavern somewhere who heard the story from someone who was there that fateful 3rd day, and sates your undying curiosity, but that’s not something you’d ever *expect* to happen.
There is a big difference between not delivering a promised book and a chapter that you used as leverage to get people to donate. No author owes anyone their writing if they are just a writer. That said, if you use it as a tool to extract money from people on the promise of something being delivered and you don't deliver, then you have defrauded those people. I am surprised someone has not taken legal action by now. Pat does not owe anyone a book, but he certainly owes those people who donated on the promise of a chapter, that chapter.
@Snowy Philips I’d push back on a writer not owing anyone their writing. But in this case, Patrick should have known better. When you set a deadline and promise and you have money involved, you should do your best to delivery. If you fall short, explain why and work your hardest to get the job done. Because all this comes down to credibility and trust. And like water, it can evaporate and disappear before you know it.
This is an excellent point, I knew it was a bad move but I hadn’t considered it to be actual literal fraud. This definitely sounds like a lawsuit waiting to happen.
I agree. I was fine with Rothfuss taking his time on book 3, the wait can be difficult but.... it's not like he was committing fraud. It's extremely disheartening that he can't deliver on the 1 chapter that he based his fundraiser around, and that people donated a ton of money for. This shows that he can't be trusted. And the thing is, it's a problem that he created. If he didn't want to share a chapter, he never had to wager it for his charity. I just don't understand how all this time has gone by and he hasn't been able to write up a single chapter so that he could ease everyone's worries and not look so bad to the public.
One can argue if he owes his fans or not. I think he does, in my opinion, but the charity is another matter all together. He certainly owes those people, and he owes his publisher contractually.
While I love the story of The Kingkiller Chronicles, I prefer authors who can finish their own books. This is why I'm just reading a lot of Brandon Sanderson nowadays. 😂
The best description I ever heard about Patrick Rothfuss is that he's not an Author, he's a twitch streamer that once wrote a couple of books.
Yeah.
Back in the 90s.
Tea
These days, he isn't even that. He hasn't streamed in nearly a year.
@@l9fingers368 if i would just get shit for not holding up to promised.. i guess i wouldnt stream too LOL
This is something that really broke my heart actually. I have always stood behind the argument that I’d rather wait for book three and it be done as well as the first two than him just release what he has done as quickly as possible. But I still can’t believe that he promised the chapter for charity and has never released it… it looks soooooo bad on him and his charity and I am a little shocked that there hasn’t been legal action taken yet over this. I agree that it took away a bit of passion for this series. It just isn’t okay that he has completely ignored it tbh
^^^
Yeah it sort of broke my heart too, it's just so disappointing. I've stood up for him before when it comes to taking his time with book 3, but this just totally comes off as a scam. I feel like he needs to take responsibility and actually act like a professional, because he's lost my trust. If he came out and apologized and actually started to communicate better with his fanbase and do good on his promises then I'd respect him a lot more.
Yes, I completely agree with you. I am disappointed, and he has lost my trust. I'm also taken aback that rent for one year costs $80,000. That amount is just going into his own pocket?? It makes me wonder what he's like as a business partner for WBI.
“When you wait a few span or month to hear a finished song, the anticipation adds savor. But after a year excitement begins to sour. By now, a year and a half *_(TWELVE YEARS NOW)_* had passed and folk were almost mad with curiosity.” ― Patrick Rothfuss, The Name of the Wind
He hates this one SO MUCH nowadays AHHAHAHAHA it comes around dont it
@@nomedeuusuario It comes around. Painfully around.
For my, I lost all hope, the best is lie to ourselves that Rofhfuss die several years ago, therefore the book never gonna be release.
@@nevilo1 Yep, pretty much, there is a video making a investigation on his archives on the stream, its like not half as heavy in kb's or mb's than it should be for a book X size
And his editor came out saying she too thinks the book will never come out lol
The fat guy just want to eat chereos and masturbate not write
lame AF
He scammed people by selling the beginning of a story he never planned to resolve, and boasted about it in the very book he used for the scam. All his current activity is just milking those "mad with curiosity". And some people still don't get that there never was and never will be a Doors of Stone.
Accountability is important. Thank you for using your platform to call a spade a spade. We should all be cautious of people unwilling to apologize when they have made a mistake. He is not just a writer, but a business owner, and therefore a leader. Any leader unwilling to admit they messed up is only going to lead people to destruction. "I'm sorry I did not follow through on my promise" can go a long way.
Exactly! Even just acknowledging that he was wrong and apologizing would definitely go a long way. I'd respect him much more if he just communicated with his fanbase more. But as is, he comes off as very unprofessional and he's lost my trust.
I think the hard part is if he apologizes, fans are going to want a "why" component to that apology. I think that paints him into a corner. If he says he doesn't have a chapter, all hell breaks loose and if he has it but isn't willing to produce it, all hell breaks loose. There is no good reason he can produce for not abiding by his promise. I think the best he can do is say, "I thought I could share a chapter but, while I have one, I cannot overcome the anxiety to share it. I'm just too afraid it's not good enough." And even that is not a very good excuse.
This comment. Obvious, really, and yet so profound..
@@CapturedInWords
But was he wrong, or was he sucessfully pulling off the stunt he planned all along and bragged about in his own narrative? I'll be honest, I wrote the guy off several years ago, and only stumbled over this video googling for a different Rothfuss. I am honestly amazed people are still holding the torch for him after he strung them along for almost two decades.
When I first read Name of the Wind, all those years back, it hit me hard. I was in love.
Now? I'm just tired. I've drifted away to other great books by other authors who actually, you know, write books. It saddens me to no end, but here it is.
I completely agree 💯. Well said.
I'm starting to believe the crazy theory that said his father wrote the first two books lol.
At this rate it kinda seems so 😅
It could be true at this point
Is his father Devan Lochees? :O
Didn't know that theory, but I could buy it at this point XD
Makes sense to me or he sold his soul to the devil and once he completes the third book he goes to hell so he doesn't want to finish it.😊
I think it's disgraceful the way he's done this, dangling the carrot so everyone throws money at him, snatching it away and moving the goal posts to get even more money then not delivering. It's fraud at best. I don't even think he's wrote past the prologue. By the time he finishes book 3 no one will care
Somehow I doubt he will ever even begin writing book 3 much less finish it.
Just looking through a lot of the reddit and other social media posts about book 3 a lot of people have already moved on from the series. Waiting almost (or over) a decade I'd just figure that other people would think it's never going to happen and just move on to something else.
And his excuse of getting all the voice actor’s schedules to line up is beyond pitiful. The beauty of voice acting is that it can literally be done anywhere at anytime. Most voice actors never get to meet their scene partners face to face. While I’m sure the experience/ performance is stronger with everyone in the room together, it’s not necessary. If he actually had anything written he could’ve knocked it out in 6-8 months easy.
I'm surprised no one is suing him for false promises when money is involved.
Yes I find the way he draws things out uncomfortable , like he gets a little thrill of power out of dangling carrots x speaking as slowly as possible. I don’t trust him. I think he has broken everybody’s trust now
Rothfuss blocked me on Twitch for being a fan and asking about book 3 a few years ago. I don't think the book exists in any form at this point, and I'm starting to question if he even wrote the first two books in the first place. It's sad that he helped bankrupt DAW Books and is now screwing over his charity and exploited is fan base to the tune of millions of dollars. I suffer from depression, anxiety, poor health too, but I still go to work every day. Dude's had nearly 20 years now and can't produce a single chapter to this book that was supposedly already written in one form or another prior to 2007. Talking about Rothfuss makes me sad and salty, and... deeply disappointed.
He's a fraud
Scam likely. I don't think he ever planned to resolve that story. Why would he, when he can milk those waiting for decades?
I hear people defending Rothfuss all the time with some variation of "An author doesn't owe you anything". That's complete nonsense, specifically when an author bills a book as part of a trilogy or series. Many (if not most) people wouldn't buy a book that they KNOW has no ending or conclusion. The Wheel of Time series is a great example, before Sanderson was asked to finished it. I bought the first and second book with the expectation of getting a third, because THAT'S WHAT THE AUTHOR ADVERTISED. Rothfuss hasn't died. Everyone who bought the first two books should feel entitled to the third. That is the proper response.
In 2016 I gave up donating to his charity, buying his merch and funding his kickstarters. I decided he wasn’t getting another cent out of me until he finished book three. Seven years and counting.
took you long enough to stop.
I understand Rothfuss is struggling with something, but he IS a professional. He needs to act like one. At least keep his promises for charity, if nothing else. Most professionals don't have the luxury of not doing what they are paid to do for years, or breaking their promises, no matter what they are going through.
100% agree! He needs to be an adult and act professional. It looks so bad on him that he's just decided to ignore the stress of all this and go silent on us. He's made money doing nothing for years now, the least he can do is actually stick to his promises.
He is struggling with spending 7 million dollars that naive fans gave him to finish his book. That after years of him not finishing it and being dismissive, patronizing, and downright aggressive with those that asked him about it.
Truth?
Lying?is that his problem?
The name of the wind is the book that got me back into reading, I will forever be grateful to Rothfus for that. Seeing his personality on twitch made me lose any want I may have had to meet the man.
I’m still waiting for someone to just write a full fanfiction of book 3 to finish the series before Patrick does lol
Honestly now that I think about it I'm even a bit surprised I haven't heard of any either. I'm sure someone has done one, no?
@@DoctorTrueheart you can check AO3, there's prolly a lot. Doubt any of it is nearly as good as Rothfuss's work, though.
A.I. will be able to do it soon.
That dude ain't never writing that book I gave up long ago
@@DoctorTrueheart If the fan fiction was any good and available in a print or kindle form to read properly, I'd buy it, accept it as canon and be done with the story to re-read as often as I'd like but no longer interested in whether Rothfuss publishes his alternative ending or whatever
I’ve been waiting on this video for ages now. Thanks for echoing the voice of the fanbase so well.
You know something’s wrong when one of the greatest pillars of the fanbase has to say “dear favourite author, please don’t block me for constructive criticism”. All my respect and empathy to Rothfuss, hope he’s able to work through all his issues; but the fanbase shouldn’t have to live in constant fear and walk on tiptoes around him.
Hey man, I hope you do end up writing that fan version of book 3. I’d love to read it.
I was thinking that too while filming, that it's sad I need to be worried that this author who I dedicated tons of videos to might block me for my criticism. But yeah, I hope one day Rothfuss will work through some things, learn to communicate better, and eventually finish the 3rd book.
same LOL XD
We should all write that book at least on our minds cause i don't think the book really exists 😞
I saw someone is doing a fan fic of the upcoming winds of winter. So it could be a cool idea :)
IMPORTANT NOTICE: Worldbuilders is an unneccesary middleman between you and Heifer International. Rothfuss pays himself and his staff a salary to work at Worldbuilders, which is paid out of your donations. He also spends money leasing warehouse space to store prizes from. The company he uses? Elodin Enterprises. Yup, you guessed correctly - he takes even more of the donations to pay a company he owns to store wares. The warehouse is his garage. DO NOT DONATE TO WORLDBUIDLERS - instead, donate directly to Heifer International.
So then how much goes to heifer from worldbuilders?
Patrick Rothfuss is a piece of shit who has successfully been running a grift on nerds for the last 15 years in the form of a charity that exists to enrich himself and perform no actual charity work. He defrauded donors with the promise of a chapter that he never wrote and should be held accountable. If you want to read his books, pirate them. If you want to donate to charity, donate to one that actually does something with the money you give them.
The Kvothe scam. I can believe that
you nailed the perfect amount of negative.
honest but compassionate!
this is why I love your channel and your takes!
This is a great way to get people to stop donating to your charity. Even though the money went to a good cause, it’s a bad look all around to ostensibly lie in order to get charity money and never formally address it.
I donated and also purchased this awesome throw pillow cover with a sketch of auri and a passage from her stand alone book a few years back. For the past 4-5 years however I refuse to donate anything until the 3rd book is released. I still donate time to time to charity but it’s clear to me Pat is using his 3rd book as leverage
100% agree, even if he had good intentions and the fundraiser is for a good cause it just looks very bad on him and his charity to not follow through with a promise that was the main driving force of the charity event.
He doesn't run a charity. That would imply Worldbuilders has a hand in actually helping in some way. Worldbuilders is a "Non-profit" that raises funds which it then passes on to a charity.
The awful part is the vast majority of funds recieved via the Worldbuilder merch store or donations any time other than the (almost) yearly fundraiser are misspent. Rothfuss claims to not have a salary, but his NPO based from his home pays his Eolian LLC "rent". Like six figures for "rent". Most of the money aside from the fundraiser go to Patrick and his staff's pockets or insurance. On tax filings, staff who don't even work part-time hours are getting $50,000 pay to run a merch store and once a year funnel the fundraiser to an actual charity.
I mean, that's probably why there hasn't been a Worldbuilders charity since. He's smart enough to know people would throw down if he tried to do it again when he never delivered on a promise he made from the last one.
Well, that explains a lot , if it’s true,
He'd probably have way less mental health and anxiety problems if he stopped taking money for promises he never planned on fulfilling. I know that would stress me out
He may someday deliver the third Kingkiller book, but I think the second trilogy that he sold to his publisher is never happening.
I do wonder if the new owner/publisher is going to sue him eventually for not delivering.
I'd honestly love to see the day.
In telling the story in three parts, Rothfuss created a form of 'social contract'; he writes a story and we pay money to read it. He does not 'owe' us anything. But by not fulfilling the expectation he created, he has broken our trust and we have every right to refuse to consume whatever else he produces. If Vol 3 is ever printed, it will be bought... in droves. But it may be the last literary work he ever gets paid for.
I 100% read the first two books because of you, but I knew going in to never expect anything else from him.
I am the silence of three parts- Rothfuss
I would agree with you on Rothfuss taking his time if I believed he was actually working on the book. I don't think he is, and I suspect he's spent so long not writing that he can't even do it anymore.
You’re perfectly transparent with your feelings. Thank you for expressing how you feel. I love Patrick Rothfuss and will always be a supporter. I feel just left in the dark with the lack of transparency he’s offered. I know we’re not obligated to any of it but the fun of teasing new content and updating us to keep the fans informed was cool while it lasted. Now that we’re here, I feel a little nervous that Mr Rothfuss might be having a harder time with book 3 than we give him credit for. I just wish he would tell us what’s really going on.
We were just discussing this on discord yesterday, this is a great video, thank you Jay!
Me too. Im at the point where i fully separated the art from the artist. Once the book is out, cuz i do belive its on its way, ill buy it and read it as fervently as i have the first two and the short stories. Hell, i'll buy every other project from rothfuss, but anything to do with the man himself, im avoiding.
Agree with almost every point you made. The strangest aspect to the charity chapter debacle (and I feel debacle is the right word now) is that it's such an easy fix. He had two chapters in mind, take the best one, strip out any areas of concern, i.e. spoilers, and give yourself a week to tighten it up. Don't worry about celebrity narrators, no one I've seen on the main subreddit or discord cares about that, the sense is it was only added to offer himself a buffer. Once the book itself comes out, no one will care about this charity chapter, so if he has to completely rewrite it later, he can. There is no way this isn't playing on his mind, and adding to his perceived state.
Seriously. Who cares about the narration. We wanted a chapter. And the way he demonized his fans for the crime of wanting the work he promised. People are so desperate they would be happy with a damn paragraph at this point.
I actually talked with In English composition professor who said she has a finished third book that she is about to release just on RUclips as an audiobook. Like she wrote it pretending she either is Rothes and it’s her way of figuring all this out for everybody. I can’t wait for her to release it.
My two favorite fantasy series are the Kingkiller Chronicles and the Stormlight Archives (maybe just the whole Cosmere actually)....and the difference in work-ethic and communication between Rothfuss and Sanderson is just comical.
Now, Sanderson goes WAY above and beyond with transparency and communication so it's not fair to compare others to him in that regard, but there's definitely a middle ground that would be much appreciated from Rothfuss.
Stormlight and Kingkiller are my two favorites as well! The differences between the two authors is like night and day. just don't understand it, If I was Rothfuss I would feel so much guilt and would want to openly tell everyone why it's taking so long, or at least apologize and say that the chapter isn't ready. And I just never would have wagered a chapter of the book if I had nothing that was ready (or nearly ready) to share with my audience who has waited YEARS. He knows his audiance has been quite frustrated with the wait, and breaking this promise has just caused him to look pretty bad and for fans to lose more trust.
Pat Sullivan is great and here’s a plus! He completes his series. I’ve read everything he’s published. Love them all.
@@CapturedInWords I loved book one and two, they're the most beautiful pieces of fantasy ever written.
He's just been through a divorce and is apparently going through a lawsuit from a contract(possibly to do with the charity) with his ex(which he would talk about and explain but I imagine he's not allowed to until everything is settled) which could have to do with the series itself or it maybe preventing him from talking about the chapter at all. If this was all happening to you and you would be fined millions for even referencing the chapter would you? I would probably have given a response similar to the one he gave.
Great video! We just had this discussion on your discord a couple of days ago and this summarised my points perfectly.
I absolutely am still 100% here for any theory videos you put out because theorizing about my favourite fantasy serieses…es is my favourite thing to do!! But I also agree, he did not need to make the promise for the chapter, and it sucks that he didn’t deliver on it. I also procrastinate to a terrible degree. I get it. But he didn’t need to do it and he should have delivered on it since he did promise it.
But also please do keep doing theory videos because they’re honestly the best
I'm happy to hear you would still be interested in theory videos! I still would like to make many more of those because I still do love the books. For now I will likely take a bit of a break from the series, at least for a month or so. I think I'll look to some other series to make theories/lore videos on in the mean time :)
Rothfuss blocking you? - I think you should block him! - Thank you for this, I think you've kind of given us the book already with your fantastic and well-thought-through theories. Keep up the good work
The other thing I dislike about this whole thing is how he pays himself 80k in rent from the charity to his LLC. I am not against people working and making money from a charity. I work for a 501c but I would be fired if I did what he is doing. Also there is a old blog post of him admitting to starting his LLC to avoid paying taxes. It is possible he is entirely above board, but his charity doesn't pass my 'smell' test. edit: Lol, didn't realize you mentioned this in your video. My bad! I posted this before watching the whole thing.
dude... im sorry for you, i share your love for the books and your pasion in every videos has elevate my own in to new highs, i cannot image how hard was to make this video.
i hope the best for Pat, but yeah, what he has done has not excuse, it was wrong. hope he can put his life in order, his mind in calmness and finally wrote whatever he needs to write to be happy, even if its not a third chapter
The thing too is it would be okay if that chapter changed by the time the book was released. He didn't need to release a finalized chapter if the book was still being written. Just A chapter.
Exactly! Even if he just gave us the first draft of a chapter, or really anything at all so he'd at least stay true to his word. It just comes off as very unprofessional to use this as incentive for your fans to donate money then to not even give them what you promised.
A great and fair video. Glad you released this. I agree with everything you’ve said. I love his books and want to recommend them but I warn people that the series will never be finished. And I sincerely believe that.
Thank you. Yeah I think it's probably a smart move to warn people that it probably won't be finished.
You know what makes very difficult to be a Kingkiller fan? Wise man's fear.
It actually took RUclips recommending me this video to realize I’m actually kind of over my interest and enjoyment in the future of the series, and that doesn’t bother me much. Auri’s novella and the cool experiences I had bonding with friends over the books are forever, after all. I am glad it brought me here, and I’m excited to check out your other videos. It’s really a shame about what happened with the charity. I actually didn’t know anything about the missing/nonexistent chapter, and now I’ve heard that Worldbuilders is really not doing well. He shouldn’t have made a promise he couldn’t deliver on. Alas.
I’m a huge Kingkiller fan, but I’m very disappointed that Rothfuss hasn’t followed through on this. Like you, I think it will affect his charity in the future, and that’s incredibly disheartening. I’ve met Pat. He’s a cool guy, and I’m sure his struggles have weighed him down, but he needs to at least make good on the chapter.
I get the feeling that GRRM will finish his series, should he live long enough to do so, but in Rothfuss' case, i feel the opposite. I'd be surprised if that book 3 ever comes out. I hope i'm wrong though, i liked books 1 and 2.
By now, we should have known better. He's definitely not going to publish the book so, my guess is that we would have to imagine the rest of Kvothe's story
Very thoughtful and respectful video about a difficult topic. Well done, Jay.
You should be proud. I doubt this was an easy video to make. Yet, it revelas your compassion and tact. Well done!
I consider the whole 3rd book lost at this point.
It’s trapped in that box and he locked away part of his series.
I consider this a dead series at this point. Hopefully I’ll be proven wrong and if book 3 gets released I will be there to read it but I’m no longer expecting it.
The 3rd book is behind the doors of stone.
@@hawk66100 unfortunately.
I'm sad to say that I've pretty much given up on Pat now. A bit too much like George RR Martin, if Winds of Winter comes out, i'll still wait for the paperback. Pat has always said that the story was written years ago and he has just been tinkering with it. I think that's untue and there is no third book and never will be. IF it is ever published, i'll be waiting to get a used copy from a second hand shop.
Pretty sure that “written years ago” was actually hasty bullet points on a Google doc.
I'll also be getting the book in a way that gives me no money to Rothfuss. I will however still buy GRRM because for some reason I just don't hold him as personally responsible. He is still an author providing great books and while he is probably 100x more famous he doesn't use the books to his own gain like Rothfuss does. He lets his story speak for itself. Same with whenever The Thorn of Emberlain comes out. Scott Lynch isn't like screaming at the top of his lungs 'hey I wrote this great series look at me, pay attention to me, and all this other stuff I'm interested in that isn't this great series. Love me like you love this series. Support me while I do nothing for you.' Also his attitude towards fans and how easy he is to offend and how he victimizes everything just make me hate this man with a passion.
Like Steven Brust has been writing a series since before I was born but I'm not like whens the next book bro
@@otoanskye George has also been releasing a steady stream of chapters from Winds of Winter, and he's been pretty transparent about his progress. I used to get frustrated with him years and years ago, but compared to Rothfuss GRRM looks like a saint.
Totally agreed Jay. I still consider Name of the Wind to be one of my favorite books ever and I was a huge defender of Patrick taking his time to finish things but the lack of communication is frustrating. It makes it really hard to continue having faith that this series will ever be finished if we can’t even get a single chapter.
I've defended him a lots as well, but this whole controversy with him not following through on his charity stretch goal has definitely made me lose a lot of faith in him. I just don't understand it. If I was in his position I'd feel so much guilt and would want to openly tell everyone why it's taking so long, or at least apologize and say that the chapter isn't ready. Instead he's just gone silent, and has even stopped streaming on Twitch likely because he's afraid someone will mention it.
I've lost trust in the author but I'll still always love these books, even if we never end up with a third one.
A measured comment, that is far more mellow than I would've been about this. This probably comes down to the basic disagreement that I think, yes, authors do owe their readers certain books - if they are part of a series that was promised as a trilogy, and readers - in good faith - use their money to purchase earlier books trusting that the author will deliver a complete story with the release of additional books in the series. I would not have bought The Name of the Wind, had the advertisment been "great read, but it is the first in a series that the author will not finish". Rothfuss taking an unusally long time to deliver the finale to his series is one thing, but the constant "I don't owe you anything, fans shouldn't be so entitled, I don't owe them anything" is just something I find to be extremely grating. Sure, some people definitely go over board and are out of line. But to claim that he doesn't owe anything to fans who bought (probably several editions) of his books, putting their trust in him as a person to deliver on his promises, is just somethign that simply pisses me off at this point.
It is, honestly, kinda sad, because, writing skills aside, I also enjoyed Patrick's appearances within geek culture (especially around D&D tables) quite a bit. However, I have to say, especially in the last few years his behaviour has been rather - for lack of a better word - toxic. He takes little criticism and has been lashing out quite a lot, which, combined with the news around his editor not having seen a single word of Doors of Stone looks rather unfortunate. I can sympathize with someone who has trouble dealing with pressure - to a point, and Rothfuss, at least for me, has surpassed that point with the mess around the chapter. Not even giving a basic heads up to fans that it might take a little longer, but instead basically ghosting them.
Thank you for making this video. I agree with you 100%. These past couple of years have really started to sour my passion for the books as well. The chapter, the WMF 10th anniversary edition, his behavior online... It just saddens me.
For the life of me, I cannot understand why he doesn't communicate with his fans. That's the problem. To me, it's so simple. A lot would be relieved if he just opened up about the truth - regardless of good or bad.
Personally, I think that he sees himself as a great literary genius and wants this to be his great unfinished work, the final instalment of which is to be published after his life when it’s found in a trunk in his attic.
With three different locks?
@@fightinostrich_ that may very will be the biggest plot twist in the history of fantasy
I wouldn't be surprised if he does view himself this way, given the heaps of (undeserved in my opinion) praise he gets for his "poetic" prose. Personally I find his prose kind of insufferable to read much of the time. It feels overwrought like he's trying too hard to be clever and make sure every sentence is perfect. The "silence of 3 parts" prologue is an example of what I mean. Every time I read one of those prologues I think "oh shut up Pat."
Damn. I've checked on Rothfuss occasionally over the last decade, in the hopes of book 3 finally coming out. Just decided to check up on it again, and this is what I find. I don't understand why he would do this.. does he just have nothing written at all? Seems such a weird thing to not follow through on.
There was someone that did a deep dive on one of Rothfuss’ live streams where he showed the working folder of DoS and calculated based on the file sizes that he had around 150k words written
If it comes to that, I'd read your fan version. You have so much knowledge of the series and the subtle hints throughout that I'm sure you would give us something decent enough for closure.
Hopefully it doesn't come to that, though.
I hope it doesn't come to that as well. I've already started working on an outline of the structure for a fan version, and have been listing the many mysteries of the series that need answers in book 3.
@@CapturedInWords I would love to hear that list of mysteries as its own video at some point.
I agree with you 100%. Communication is everything and maybe there's a bigger reason why we haven't gotten any but either way I don't agree with the whole "using the chapter as leverage" thing. .
To be completely fair to him, Pat never said which February...
You're absolutely right. We are at least owed an explanation and an update.
This is spot on. It is lamenting how long book 3 is taking. I introduced my father to the series. When Wise Man's Fear was over; we listened to it together on audible. He was like, "OK, let's start the next one. I'm ready to see how this all ends. I just smiled sadly and was like, welcome to the fandom.
To this day, he asks me if there is any news about the last book.
what you did to your dad was just cruel. He deserved better.
I can see why you did not choose Kingkiller as your favorite Fantasy series on Mat's video. I was shocked given how many videos you've made about it. But yeah, Rothfuss is hurting his image by remaining mute on this. Thank you for summing up my feelings on this. Leveraging book 3 and not delivering is not a good move at all.
You're right, that is why I didn't choose Kingkiller in Mat's video. I was fine with him taking his time writing book 3, it can be a frustrating wait sometimes, but it's not like he was committing fraud. But now he's not even providing what he based his whole fundraiser around, and that's very disheartening. People actually paid money to see 1 single chapter, and he's been silent on it... which looks very bad on him and makes it feel like he's someone that can't be trusted.
Which Mat is that please?
@@MagusMarquillinHere's the video. ruclips.net/video/cMp9lQ6jtKM/видео.html. Matt's Fantasy book reviews.
@@Severian1 Cheers mate, haven't run across him yet - I was hoping that would be a fun collab, but damn, guess Matt knows all of book tube.
Good point on the fact that Patrick could just read the chapter himself, tomorrow. No voice actor friends. I would wager 99% of his fans would consider the deal complete. it would engender some goodwill for Patrick to host a stream where he says, "I was wrong. I shouldn't have been using book 3 as a dangling carrot all these years." That's something I have never heard him say before. Mental illness doesn't preclude a statement like that. Pride, narcissism, stubbornness and a massive victim complex preclude such a statement, not mental illness.
Excellently said.
As someone who has the exact same types of illness as him, it's not a fucking excuse to be this way. I can see how it could immobilize him from writing, and avoid the entire topic when possible, but you can't go years with nothing.
I mean the whole voice actors thing was probably just a way to delay.
You sir are spot on. Mental illness does not parallel his actions here. My only 2 guesses are writers block or a dead ghost writer at this point
@@danielbroome5690❤❤❤ these "fans" are gross!!
And before it all turns out that his Silence is just a massive metaphorical stunt xD
6:42 Don't discredit yourself, your videos were the solitary reason I started the series, and the reason I got back into reading in general
Like you I have read Name of the wind in right time, and it helped me a lot. I liked Wise man's fear little less, now when I look back it is almost like his passion for book started to drain while writing that book. I still love second book and I could be wrong, and I understand mental health problems and huge amount of stress he is going through.
I appreciate the balanced tone you took here, not glossing over the problem, but still leaving the door open for things to get better.
Theory: someone who isn't around anymore actually wrote these books and he is just trying to milk them for everything he can at this point...
There is a reason why I have never ever recommend this series to anyone even though it’s one of my favorites and I have read the book more times than I can count…
I would also like to give a closure to that important part of my life that helped me so much. If you'll write a fan version of the final book i'd love to read it Jay ❤️
I agree with your statements, every artists should have the time they need and deserve to make that project everything that they can make it. However, when the artist has raised the expectations of the audience, it’s up to the artist to fulfill on that expected project. Like you said, it doesn’t have to be this big table read, just put something up so the people who love the series don’t feel cheated. I still love the story a lot too, but it saddens me that there isn’t any news whatsoever.
My passion for the series and the world fizzled out about 7 years ago
Tbh the more fantasy I read after Kingkiller the more I realized I was not really a fan of the books. I find all of the hoopla funny at this point.
I would LOVE to read your fan version of book 3! I'll pre-order now if you want!
I've started writing out a structure for it!
You’ve captured our frustrations and I thank you.
I would be VERY surprised if there is a chapter. It had seemed to me like he did it to motivate himself to finish it but I suppose that didn't work. I don't know if contracts are stopping him, but I think it would be nicer of him to say that maybe he just doesn't want to write it and would prefer to move on to other stuff. That can be a hard conclusion to come to as a writer, but it may be the right option for him. Many authors struggle with mental illness and anxiety, he's the only one I can think of that publicly uses his personal malaise, consistently, to explain why he's not writing.
I don't even think he has a publisher at this point as DAW publishing was sold and I'm sure whatever arrangement they had with Rothfuss was expired. He also opened his own publishing company that I'm sure he'll use to publish book 3 if it ever comes out.
This video was way too kind. This guy is a grifter, and is taking advantage of his fans. He knows his fan base is hungry for content, and rather than leaning into that( a la Sanderson), his instinct is to leverage it for money, and then not deliver more content. I almost wish his series wasn't so good, because it allows him to continue to lead his fan base on, and probably milk them for more money in the future. There needs to be more harsh and public critiques for this behavior to stop. If he doesn't want to finish the book, that's his right. But, to continue to interact and make false promises, while soliciting his fans for money, is kinda unforgivable.
If only every author could have the positivity and passion that Brandon Sanderson has. Rothfuss is clearly crumbling under the weight of his own success.
_"Why did you sting me?"_ asked the frog. _"Now, we will both surely drown."_
_"Um, actually,"_ said the scorpion, _"this line of questioning is really fucking problematic, and frankly, I'm fucking sick of hearing about it."_
I feel entitled to the 3rd book. As I payed for the first with a verbal commitment of 2 more mostly written, just needing to be fleshed out (memory serves, not sure of his exact wording.)
Wouldn't have bought it without that reassurance.
Didn't complain about book 2 taking longer. But the situation with the third is completely unreasonable. Even if you ignore the Missing Chapter.
I was willing to give him time he needed. I was willing to wait for him to get the book to us cause I knew it would be gold. I had seen about him haveing a ton of mental health issues and that he was taking time to step away to get better and I though good for you man get better so you can get back to something that you love. I love those books and own them in three different medias. I have been going through them about once a year and always picking out new stuff. I know he doesn't owe me a book. That being said: he owes us that chapter. People donated, at least, in part to get to see that chapter and got nothing. He used somethin his fans wanted as leverage to get people to give money to his charity, which is fine, but he never gave it to us. He doesn't even talk about what's going on with work one it, we are owed at least some communication from him, even if its just "I'm still working through some stuff and don't have the time". The way he acts when questioned about the book is super questionable. I have lost all faith in seeing the book finished, let alone any news about it, for many years to come. And I have very little to no goodwill toward Pat, mainly because of what he has done with the chapter. Frankly I'm surprised I clicked one this video, only because its related to the Kingkiller books, because all it ever does is get my hope up or make me excited for something I probaly will not see for at least another 5 years...I'm done with Pat untill I see actual proof of work with the book or good comunication from Pat. I still hope his life goes good and all but I'm done giving my emotional energy and time over to hoping he finishes or even works on the Doors of Stone...
It's really sad honestly. The series as a whole will forever suffer from what he had done with the charity and chapter he still hasn't delivered on. I think it will drive potential readers away and stain the series and Patrick himself. I myself have only read the first book and find it hard to even want to read the second one because of the lack of any hope towards seeing a third book anytime soon. That along with the whole missing chapter puts a bad taste in my mouth thinking about it. Truly sad and I hope he delivers eventually if not to save face in some way possible but maybe to finally give his hardcore fans something to read. Fans I no longer think he deserves. Good video man! Keep it up!
100% agree with everything you’ve said. I’ve always felt the only thing an author “owes” their fans are the words on the pages they’ve paid for (ie the book the fan has purchased). Beyond that the author is free to release material if/when they decide. That being said, not releasing the chapter after reaching the donation goal is a complete breach of trust and people have the right to be angry!
Maaaannnnn bump pat. He played us. He played the publisher. He played himself too. You got all this time and therapy and still haven't learned to not put more on your own plate than you can handle. He's on my list of love the art and forget the artist. No one asked him to do this. He did it to himself. shame on em.
He's just like kvothe truly, the magic is in his lies
Doors of Stone is becoming the Duke Nukem Forever of novels. I worry that by the time it comes out (assuming it does) that there's no possible way to live up to expectations or the cynicism that's fermented over the years. That's a shame.
Your right. Not only will so many people not care, but so many more will be disappointed. I do sympathize with Pat some, but it will be incredibly cringe if he ever does release it watching him take a victory lap. I will admit, he is popular enough where he will diehard fans no matter what he does.
I hope you do end up writing that fan version of book 3! Even just a rough outline for book 3 bare bones would be great.
If book 3 is released before you finish (May Tehlu guide him), would still love to see all the theory's and where they can be taken.
I love the KKC and I've always been fine with waiting for book 3, I mean there are tons of other books I need to read, but the unfulfilled promises from the fundraiser really leave a sour taste in my mouth. I doubt this is something that people will forget and it has really tarnished his reputation. It's just such a shame and it's made me truly wonder if we ever will get book 3 if he can't even deliver a single chapter, which is heartbreaking to think as I always gave Rothfuss the benefit of the doubt. There's still a part of me that hopes this will all work out for the best, both for us and for Rothfuss
This series doesn't exist in my mind, tbh. I loved the first book, thought the second was okay, but it's been so long that I just don't care anymore. I feel the same about Martin and Lynch. Great authors that I don't even know if I'd bother reading their books if they came out now.
At least the other 2 aren't riding the wave of the previous books. I haven't heard anything from Lynch in years and Martin wrote other books and did other projects.
I’ve been thinking that I would settle for fan version of book 3 at this point and I was hoping you would be the one to do it because of all the in-depth analysis and videos you’ve made of the first two books. It saddens me to think that it’s gotten to this point for fans of Rothfuss to no longer believe(never mind hope) that he’ll actually finish book 3. The possibility will always remain there that Rothfuss might finish book, but the probability of him finishing it seems bleak. Anyway, you’ve got my vote if you decide to take on the challenge and write a fan-based version for book 3.
Watching your videos and listening to your perspective has helped me enjoy the series without being bitter about the third book.
I'm happy my videos have helped!
Your points are right on and solid keep up the great videos
Rothfuss isn't an author; he's just a guy who told a good story once.
Twice
@@Awelbeckk Once. A Wise Man's Fear was awful.
Thank you so much for doing this. Its very brave of you to offer this rightful criticism when your channel does a lot of KKC content. I think Pat needs to be held accountable for this. Part of me knows Pat struggles and i sympathize...but he has become more and more entitled and out of touch. The fact he did no charity this year, after so much work and so many years doing it, says a lot. I think some things have finally caught up with Pat, and a lot of people who support his art are starting to realize this guy may not be worth their time. Thank you again. Great stuff and very impressed with what you did with this video.
This was absolutely disgusting. Can't believe he did this. Complete scam.
I'm reading Wise Mans Fear again and loving it...again. I'm going to keep holding out hope we hear something from Rothfuss anytime now on book 3!!!
As much as I adored those books... I only gave him the benefit of the doubt for so long. I just can't anymore. At least Melanie Rawn said "I'm never writing The Captal's Tower, I just can't" before she bailed from the internet completely. He's just continued to ride the first two books and a short story. At this point, I figure he's just going to ride them straight into the ground. If an author is consistent, I'll read books as they come out other wise, no. Rothfuss and Martin have taught me to wait if there's no promise of consistency.
Can you imagine? He'd actually have to get a job.
@@otoanskye It's not that I don't think Rothfuss works. He does. He just doesn't write. He needs to admit that he cannot ever write that last book. I completely understand the pressure of having to admit you literally cannot keep a promise you have made (especially if it's for mental health related reasons). I've had to do it myself. Sometimes, 'accountability' doesn't help, it just makes you hide and that's what he's doing. The longer he goes the bigger that book gets in his mind and, at this point, I'm pretty sure it's an insurmountable task for him.
There comes a time when "mental health" becomes an excuse for not moving forward.
I'm in my late 50s. I sincerely would love to read book 3 before I die. Sadly, I think, that isn't going to happen.
I heard in Japan they used to lock authors that did not manage to provide the book on time in a specific mansion untill they manage to finish their work. It looks like it is a high time to send Lynch, Rothfuss and Martin to Japan. The world is about to end and these guys stil did not manage to finish their works.
I really love the Kingkiller chronicle. That said, it's pretty obvious he has written himself into a corner if you go back and review the story beats. As for this "the artist doesn't owe you anything" this is nonsense. If you sell people two books with the promise it is a trilogy, then you have a social contract to complete the story. He has spent his publishers advance, his publisher has publicly stated she has not been updated or shown anything. If you listen to Pat speak, he displays most of the traits of a narcissist and gaslighting his fans is nothing new. The reason Pat receives the grief he does is directly related to how he has chosen to present himself to his community. I don't think its fair to torment him on social media, but the ridicule he receives nowadays in how people talk about him is absolutely due in part to his public behavior.
It's...not nonsense? He owes nothing US nothing. He loses face and his fans would likely turn on him but he's under no obligation to complete the book for us. He has no contract with us that forces him to complete the book. He might be under obligations to complete it for the publishers etc but that's actual contracts and there is probably clauses to get himself out of it if he wanted, such as just paying the money back (which he very probably could do).
"Social contract" is just utter nonsense and frankly you come across as a Karen and are essentially saying he deserves to be tormented by fans that think he owes them.
I really wish people would stop throwing around mental health diagnosis's when they aren't a mental health professional and aren't their psychologist. Gaslighting his fans and pulling out a victim card is crappy behavior, it doesn't automatically mean he's a narc even if you have a checklist in front of you because you aren't his therapist.
@@Yattien89 sure, he doesn't owe you anything, keep sending him money but remember, nothing is owed! Right, I'm pretty sure at this point, at least one chapter is fully "owed" and that's exactly what this video is about.
@@infinitecurlie I'm not diagnosing him and I am by far not the first to make the same observation. You also have no idea what my degree is in, fellow internet commenter.
@@ShatteredZen I mean, sure, one chapter is potentially "owed" but that wasn't what your comment said. Your comment said (paraphrasing) "He made two books and promised a trilogy so he's under "social contract" (whatever the fuck that is) to complete the story". Don't go moving the goalposts to suit your narrative, Karen.
I gave $1000 to the charity. The excitement and hope I felt as a long-time fan seeing an update, chapter release, and anything new from this series for the first time in years was insane. Only to have compete radio silence is very disheartening. I've never been someone who pushed him on social media or felt like something was owed to me just because I'm a huge fan (I even named my dog Simmon). That felling last month when the year anniversary of the charity hit though was just.. disappointment
How the hell do you have 1000 dollars to throw around like that 😂 you either very wealthy or don’t need to worry about food, bills and rent 😂😂
@Henbot I do ok, and fantasy storytelling is something I've been passionate about for a while, so it seemed worth it at the time, haha
@@Henbot what? lol. people throw around a lot more than that for more frivolous things.
You're totally right. Zero words from him to say at least "sorry fellas"...
I look forward to your fan fic, The closure will be appreciated.