Quarantined Shop Life - Day 9 KERN
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- Опубликовано: 26 авг 2024
- The Kern video is here!
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John Grimsmo Knives Instagram: / johngrimsmoknives
Erik Grimsmo Instagram: / erik_grimsmoknives
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Sony A7iii
Zoom F1-LP Field Recorder
Rode VideoMicro Directional Recorder with Dead Cat
JOBY GorillaPod Compact Tripod with Ballhead
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Fraser: / frasercuviello
Skye: / skyemfg
Jo (pronounced Yo): / jovonrosen
Fan-Made Intro from: @zblade_open (Martin from Slovakia, thank you!)
Music from: www.epidemicso...
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Sebastian Forslund: Bring Out The Thunder (Instrumental Version) (Intro Music)
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We need a 1 hour video of the Kern machining while changing tools and pallets with no music or anything. Just machining viewed from an inside camera. It would be the ultimate ASMR for your engineer viewers.
Hummmmmmm, I do like that idea ;-)
When the Kern first gets powered up the RUclips autogenerated CC says [applause] 🤣
Hi John. With the remaining tombstones you plan to make have you considered milling one end of the 4140 round bar and drilling and tapping the holes you plan to use to mount them to the pallet and then attach them to your pallet. Doing this would then allow you to mill the remaining 5 sides of the round bar in the kern without the need to use the 5 axis vice.
I run a floor mill with 33.5ft X and 12.5 ft in Y powered by heidenhain. I would reccomend trying to used the integrated canned cycles as much as you can, it is more manageable when programming and the machine will do the paths better than g code can. Have fun - pretty sweet mill
You have a filtered coolant system - you may be able to run grinding wheels and sharpen your blades on the machine aswell!
A 50 minute video about a Kern? Count me in!
Same!!
Between the Kern and the Tornos both running straight oil, You might want to look into a chip spinner to reclaim your oil. You'd be surprised how much oil is trapped in the chips even after sitting for a while.
You may also want to consider an automatic fire extinguisher system too if the machine doesn’t already have one.
The Kern is running on water based coolant. Many run on oil, but I gave that a hard pass. Oil is fine (annoying) for tiny parts on the swiss. But it's a nightmare on bigger parts and fixtures. When I was in Germay I played on a kern with oil, ugh, so gross. So I chose coolant.
You're going to need those 210 tools slots for tool life management if you plan on running non-stop production on 10 pallets.
I like people who are obsessed with precision, cleanliness and flatness. If everybody was like that the world would be a better place, seriously.
a _flatter_ place, you mean?
XDDDDD
3 minutes on 200 sheets is still a whole day. So getting sheets to final thickness will save you a lot of time in the long run. These first cuts also create plenty of chips that can interfere with subsequent cuts a little bit, so yes, better have it to thickness if you can. Also helps the environment with less waste, and with storage, if they are thinner from the start.
Would it be a good idea to make the pallets dedicated to one part or operation? Like handle outside sets, handle inside sets, blades left side, blade right side, clips outside, clips inside. Also the screws that you use for telling what program to run you could have that incorporate into the a specific location for each pallet on the tomb stone so you can put any pallet on any tomb stone and it would know what you are trying to do. I have no experience with this but if something I say makes sense and you can use it some how that's awesome! Keep it the great content 👍
I think the point of it is that one full knife comes off at a times as managing the logistics of making a lot of one part would probably cause some delays from other parts not being in stock
Cool stuff John! Congrats for the Kern, holy grail for most of us.;-)
Just one suggestion, that I did and cannot live without that anymore - build a "noise reducing chamber" around that bloody air compressor! You have plenty of foam leftovers that you can use for it. Just cobble a big enough double-wall "box" and fill the space in between the outer and inner wall with the foam. Press it a bit and you'll hear the tools cutting again! ;-)
The chiller also chills the coolant. Kanto Seiki actually makes a chiller with even better performance.
Oh, and the machine runs Wind River RTLinux.
Hi John, these quarantine videos have been excellent. Keep them coming.
The Kern 5 axis.......wow what a machine. Will certainly open up new adventures in knife making for you.
Regards Kevin (MachineNZ)
I ran a very large horizontal boring Mill for years that had a heidenhain TNC 430 control on it. It starts up the same way as your machine hit CE twice then the white button to turn on the DC power and traverse the reference points. Machines with heidenheim controls don't actually have to zero return like a Fanuc controled machine that hits a limit switchs that must be tripped some the machine can reference a know position, they have a glass scale as well as a rotary encoders in the ball screw motor. It just checks the difference between the encoder and the glass scale to know where it is.
Do you balance your tool assemblies for the Kern. We run 30K spindles in the company I work for. We use Haimer tool balancing machines for all our cutters. Balanced tools improve surface finish and tool life and will definitely prolong the life of the spindle.
Put a indicator on the 4140 slug where the vise is opening ... I bet it’s stretching
Of course it's stretching. EVERYTHING stretches. But that part is so thick and the spans are so short. That is not going anywhere. There are videos of people grabbing dovetails with the same 5th Axis brand vise, and plowing an EM into it. Especially since the dovetails are acted upon all the way to about ½"from the inside corners. If they were only squeezing on a 1" part in the center of the span, it would flex a lot.
For tool layout in the Kern I'd see which tools are used the most and put them closest so the change time is shortest. The least used tools then go furthest away. I would not layout by type!
For your tombstone, wouldn't you save a bunch of tool changes if you had 1 tombstone for each fixture? For example you mount 4 sides with soft blades, then have another tombstone with the hardened blades. You have to manually move the pieces anyway to heat treat and back, might as well not need to take out a tombstone just to access only 2 faces of it.
Love how these new videos are. Just like the old days!
We all like the old format.
More of John figuring out stuff. More informal.
Less of a 'production'.
I hope this change stays after the rest of the crew comes back.
thats a dream setup! im gonna say about 1.2 million dollars for the kern with the erowa and the big tool changer.
I don't know what I like more, if the kern machine or the amazing floor LOL
Excellent video, just excellent.
50 minutes of JohnGrimsmo video goodness? Yes, please. This is gonna be good.
I guess I'll have to watch this will I 'work' from home. Should help pass an hour.
Keep the content rolling, please!
If you really dial it in , that's real 24/7 , 30 pallets in 2 weeks (just a number) , with duplicate tools on finishing and triple on roughing , you really just press cycle start and go on a 2 week vacation . That machine is really over the top balls to the walls !
My 2 cents on the subject of roughing round stock to square...For the quick and dirty rough milling stuff you could pick up a geared head (heavy duty style) manual mill and will move so much more metal per kW with large cutters due to the torque of geared. Look for a used Soviet/Russian/Bulgarian machine (In Europe I come across these for less than 5000€). I myself run an Arsenal FU251 and for 4 kW this thing can move a lot of metal (600 N/m of torque which is insane compared to even some high end 30-40kw CNC mills). Keep in mind, that's the smallest machine in their lineup but is still way above a Bridgeport! Also get a stick welder and learn to run some beads...You could very quickly weld 4 plates to a bottom one and make fixtures out of these!
As someone from the machining world, I do not understand the KERN purchase...
Without a doubt its quality is top notch but so is its price and for what you're doing and the small size of your business I do not see the value of getting a KERN compared to an Okuma or DMG machine which are still extremely high quality but would be 1/3 to 1/2 the price for the same exact thing. Is the difference between holding +/-1um vs +/-3um really worth what is probably a $350,000+ price delta? Plus if that thing ever needs maintenance (which it will) or something breaks (which will happen), its going to be some serious bucks and long wait for parts.
You must be new.
Look up "Full Grimsmo" in the dictionary. ;)
He probably had got a really good amount of discount from KERN for pr and advertisement . That's the most logical explanation for this kinda purchase .. The other possiblity is that he is up to manufacture something really really precise. Eventually we'll see :)
Would love a video about the business case for this purchase, I love new machines like the next guy but you could have built more redundancy into your machinery inventory for less investment
@CMTeamCobra "They aren't machinists" because he left a tool in the spindle. Derp. That's quite possibly the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Do better. Film everyday of your machine work and I'll let you know what you're doing that is "wrong," and I'll tell you you're not a machinist.
@CMTeamCobra interesting how the manual of the hsk spindles say, leave a tool in there, but what do i know :D
Kern! The CE was the hardest thing to remember when starting it up. There is no prompts to push it. Glad you are starting to make fixtures and figuring out tooling. Have fun with it, there's lot to learn!
I'm geeking out just thinking about you maximising the productivity of the kern. High efficiency makes me all warm and fuzzy.
I've used a chip drag when I just could not get chips to break. Just make a hook and stick it into your deep drill station. Program it go in an drag nests off the main spindle. Hard to do both main and sub though and I noticed you were having issues on the sub as well.
Looks like you're set on coolant... but I'm going to go out on a limb here, as a guy who's owned a mold-making/medical operation for almost 10 years now and say... you don't need it. We machine steels... mostly hardened these days, aluminum, copper and various other metals with nothing more than air or (MQL) minimum quantity lubricant. More hassle than it's worth and the disposal costs are going up all the time.
Good luck.
Cant wait to see that Kern pumping out parts. keep it up!
What made you decide to pay the high price for a 5 axis Kern, when a less expensive horizontal with a pallet changer or 4th axis with a robot tombstone changer would achieve the same goal? Other than the screws on top for the logic (Wich could be achieve putting them on the side), there are no 5 axis moves a b-axis couldn't do with your tombstone
Probably a 2fold of he is obsessed with precision he doesnt need, and hasnt wrapped his head around 5 axis yet.
As he is using it, like you pointed out, like his mori but with a 4th axis on it.
I'm also curious what his reasoning behind it is!
@@16siemon A 4th axis setup with rocklock tombstones like in saunders Area 419 tour would be a much more economic choice. Could have 2-3 dedicated machines for the cost of the Kern
Linux running XFCE, I use the same for my desktop computer...
EMO actually stands for 'Exposition Mondiale de la Machine Outil' and that is, whatever in french..
Machine expo is the important thing.
Glad to see it finally up and running, sadly i didnt have any stickers on hand, when i looked and felt this sweet erowa pallet pool..
Full kudos to your capital investment of equipment, that KERN is truly the pinnacle of CNC machining in a small envelope.
Would love to see full in-depth operation (also suggested by another subscriber).
Thanks for sharing and stay safe all.
You should see how much my shop is taking out of 350-lbs 10-in rounds of 4140. I wouldn't know what I would do with myself if I owned my own shop or machines like that. I keep walking around my shop with all of our DMGs imagining what I would do 😊
Take your 4140 raw round and just face and do your bolt-hole pattern on another machine then mount the whole round on your pallet and machine the tombstone in the Kern on it's pallet. That way there would be no question of accuracy.
You need a Fixture Maker working for you now
with tool mag its nice to have sections but when you first set it up you might not get it right. Unless you know what you need and want. you need sister tools too. maybe worth just adding for now and then reorganize later. I drive 3 lathes with tool mags.
Hey John,
You really don't want to break endmills on a 42k rpm spindle too ;)
Then rather a part falling off the table.
Please, never keep a toolholder in a spindle ...!
I just talked to my kid (6 y.o.) on Duo, and she does those same exact faces. Haha. Some of the time, she gets so mesmerized making faces that she forgets she's talking on the phone.
Awesome video! Absolutely impressive machine! Good luck with it. Greet Robin
If you want to check for high spots get a high quality granite table and some engineers blue and ring the part against the table. Then you scrape the high spots until its beautifully flat -
Hey John!
There are tombstones available off the shelf in every size and configuration imaginable.
Any reason not to use them? 🔧😊👍
Why don't you buy dura-bar in a near-net size for your tombstones? That's what Orange makes their vises from and you can get it heat treated before it hits your floor.
Make sure you dont distord the tomstone when griping it from the inside if you reduce the wall thickness too much. Doble check that with the probe. 4140 has its limits.
Im soooo jealous of that kern beauty XXX
I would set up that Shapeoko to run the foam. It's more than capable and would free up the expensive machine.
I think he does it on the expensive machines because the foam uses multiple tools and the expensive machines have tool changer
@@joshuahuman1 a tool changer and some sk15 or sk20 tool holders would cost less than 1200€, so less than around 1800cad. for that application, he could even make his own tool holders in a lathe if he needs something more specialized, no need for hardening and grinding there.
I don’t believe there is any software for the shapoko that supports a tool table for offsets
Do you have holes in the bottom of your carousel parts catcher to allow the oil to drip out? Or is the idea to keep the oil?
What, didn't want to run the foam on the Kern?
Those 'beater' machines are just waiting to chew up that foam, I bet.
I loved this Vlog I hope you will do more Vlogs that are about 1h. Thank you so much. Keep it up
It's great to se the "knifemaking tuesday" style back :)
I really like the design of the pandemic norseman. 👍🏻
Do you etch the parts before anodizing?
Usually no. We do have multietch and whink but don't use them that much.
@@JohnGrimsmo Thank you!
I thought so because the handles look pretty shiny.
Normally people recommend etching before anodizing green. What is the reason that you do not do that?
Awesome video update, kern is amazing!
Having the mass of your tombstone is not bad thing for machining heavier cuts. Try this one before you make another.
I really think you should ask for a Autodesk PowerMill Demo for the Kern :)
I don't think that end mill was secure enough in the holder for such heavy roughing of foam on that vacuum plate....
It was a risk of getting pulled out of the holder. Very high axial forces involved in foam cutting. He should have used a down cutting EM to make sure it didn't get pulled out.
He should have used coolant so he didn’t risk burning up that expensive carbide
John, Hi did you think of a 6 sided hexagon with a hollow core, more production,
Funny how the last couple of vids I commented about being excited about the saga pen and how I cant wait to be picked from the lottery. Well guess what I won the lotto and my pen is on it's way. Cant wait to have the same pen to use for years to come. I've always wanted a nice pen. Thanks grimsmo knives.
FREAKING AWESOME!
THIS IS WHAT IVE BEEN DYING FOR
Hey John, @7:00 maybe you should start using the magic tool of a machinist, The Pipe!
Why not just get a die cutter for the foam inserts? Not perfect enough?😂
My thoughts exactly. A clicker press would knock them out right now. Cutting them on a cnc mill is a waste of time and a clicker would do a better job.
Would that also handle chamfering?
The holes are not through, so a die cutter would not do those, or the bottom finish when you ripped the leftovers, would be real bad.
@@nixie2462 Could get the foam in 2 separate layers, cut the 1st layer and glue down onto the 2nd.
@@FrenziedFruitcake but then you get onto the whole gluing thing, wich is pretty labour intensive (and really messy, even compared to oil). Whereas doing it in the mill with preglued foam allows you to do other things in the meantime.
Also, whenever you need a new foam type, you can just mechanize one, instead of investing in a new die cutter.
About time....lol
Where do you guys get your cases for your knives?
23:33 Mikrons don't need to home.
Nice. Linux with xfce. I would suspect a linux-rt kernel underneath. Anyone knows ?
Finally the Kern
So 3 lambos were talking 750-900k ballpark? Super curious to do the math if this is something I could ever justify sometime in my lifetime lol. I love CNC machines pushing the boundaries of tech and engineering!
Yeah, think he mentioned 800K canadian in another video. And the Tornos he got was 350K. Don't quite understand the need for a Kern here, but must be mostly for fun and that they can.
@@Rimrock300 That machine costs $1.4 million USD. And the lead time is six months.
@@douro20 Then it's good he bought it some years ago, when they were cheaper. He has specificalley said he paid 8-900K for the one he got.
Next machine: Datron M8cube with robot, for hard materials, composites and engineering plastics.
210... literally 10x my brother. Drooling over here
"Shop Life" is fine for the logs name !
Jeeze John would it kill you pick up a dumbell or do some pushups my guy?
knife envy rising.... gotta make more monny, have to have a Grimsmo knife............
That Kern could make a friggin Lambo. Stellar additional to the asenal John. Want to see the parts coming off that 4 sided pallet on a run!👍
Love it...pucker factor 10
When are these Rasks going to be produced? I’m dying for one after getting my Norseman!!😁
Wow love this!
Uhhhm where is day 10???
Cutting foam with a Mori 😂
thats not anymore ridiculous than making knives with a Kern... haha, theyre both WAY overkill for anything happening in that shop.
Some European precision right there in red!
It pains me to see you cutting foam on the Mori. It deserves so much more!
Did more pens drop?
No disrespect to Frasier (pardon the incorrect spelling), but I personally prefer the quarantine style videos vs the professional studio looking videos. The professional looking videos are great for sure, but I don’t get that original John Grimsmo feel that originally attracted me and made me want to buy the product in the first place. The quarantine vlogs have been very refreshing to the brand as far as I’m concerned, and have been watching.
You didnt torque the tool holder up - interesting. When you loosedend it you said it was real tight, watching you tighten it up again i felt like you swung off it a tad too much. It looked like one of those new fangled tool holders with the ball race inside them which run tight anyways? do you torque up tools is the question.
For that milling chuck you literally tighten it fully until it stops, it's weird how it works, with needle bearings inside. For regular ER16 collets we don't usually torque them, but probably should! We've developed a feel, but yeah, we could do better. There are actual torque specs.
John, why not make your tombstones out of grey iron instead of 4140? Grey Iron would absorb vibrations better.
Cast iron isn't good for fixtures because it's not abrasion resistant as tool steel. He's going to be taking posts of and on each cycle, and cast iron only likes large s.a./low pressure sliding. (Like machine and vise ways.) Also, small parts become increasingly rigid and "vibrations" become less of an issue. This is a very small fixture, and vibration damping is not as much of a concern. Also, the threaded holes where he bolts the parts onto the fixture would also be a failure point. CI is not the best material where you will be screwing screws in/out thousands of times.
@@xenonram Thanks Andrew that all make perfect seance . In my shop I make one or maybe up to a couple of tens of parts on my mills, so I never really had to think about long term effects on my fixtures.
Plus from what I've heard, cast iron is completely gross to machine and ruins your coolant pretty quickly, so I avoid it completely hahaha.
You should put those magnets up on the sight for those of us that can’t afford the knives. Love the videos John.
I assume it is spinning CCW when doing that live tool setting?
Correct!
22:18 lol xfce, your machine runs linux.
Hey Mr. Grimsmo! Best quarantine time usage ever! I was thinking as watching... why dont you try to glue together enough of those, anyways-to-thick, pieces of foam and make a full brick, then clumsily bump your tools safely onto it 'til everithing is right? It'll be a little like air-milling but not as boring. Let's call it "enhanced air milling" :). Bests from Argentina!
Those are often called "Hide in pain" controls.
depends on the person and usecase of the controller.
i personally preffer haidenhein for mills, but i also like the siemens controll for lathes, especially lathes with live tooling.
it's all personal prefference in the end.
Sadly can’t buy these knifes as the mechanism that keeps it up is illegal here to have.
YEEES Kern
Quick Idea but as you say they're nothing if you don't act on them... Bare in mind I've never used such a machine. I guess that there's a section where the tool change is a bit faster (unless it prepares it in advance) than the rest of the tools in there. So, you might want to reserve a few spots in that section for "quick access tools". You know that category of tool that no matter the part you make it gets used.
i believe its got a 2axis arm like in the coke vending machines that have the robot arm for grabbing tools
@@joshuahuman1 yeah that's what it has but if it waits until the tool is called to go grab it like a coke machine does, the further the tool is from the drop point the longer it'll take
@@christobacon1 On the Heidenhain you can use TOOL DEF (number of tool) after the tool call to preselect the next tool
What is the aproximate value from this type of machines?
Waiting machining videos.....
I'm fairly sure the one cutting foam costs in the ballpark of $400,000 US
@@Ltifone2014 that 3 axis mori is no where near 400k. Its closer to 120. The Kern on the other hand...
@@split141x you are very much correct. I realized mistook it for a different machine this morning.
@@Ltifone2014 :)
john not trying to piss you up or ask questions I shouldn't ask or making you unconfortable but I want to know why wouldn't you tell us the price of the kern ? not asking for the price asking why you won't tell, for me I know cnc machining only on youtube and everyone is conservative about their machine prices even manual machines only haas and tormach are clear about their pricing and is their a chance that the price would depend on the customer and not the machine,options,etc...
How do you get the two tone gold/bronze?
Anodize gold, throw it in the vibratory tumbler to scrub off all the high spots but the stones cant reach the deep lines, then the outside is silver, then you anodize it a lower voltage for bronze which doesn't affect the gold color.
@@JohnGrimsmo thanks man
Vlog name: knife making quarantine maybe
jog (john vlog)?
Vlohn
Grimvlog :D
I'm German lol, Achtung! 😂
This means I will finally get my Rask!?!
Ha! Yeah buddy you're first in line.
@@JohnGrimsmo You are the man! Hope all is well with the family and crew.
machining foam on a 40+ hp machine
Bah it's only 20hp LOL