Empty chamber vs loaded chamber?, it all depends on who , what or where you are and or what you are doing. If I were Military/cop clearing a building (or cop on the street) hell yes I would have all of my weapons loaded and ready to go, but if I am on my Ford 800 bouncing around the farm?, I like to have an empty chamber. Not all of us need a fast draw, just having a weapon handy and where you can get to it is all most of us need.
I keep one by the bed chambered only so I can present my ready weapon without making the extra sound, should an intruder pose a threat. Beyond that, I have no...full mag, no chambered round. That's my pref.
Exactly this guy doesn't understand crap about training training doesn't really matter much because when you are in a real situation you will forget it. How does that boxer saying go, is it Ali who said everyone has a game plan until they get punched in the face
@@joesmith201212 So it's better to rack your slide and have a ND while presenting than have your gun ready and ND while presenting? Even with an empty chamber an untrained person can putvtheir finger in the trigger guard.
i keep mine empty, when i draw i can rack a round so fast that there is almost no time diff. maybe 1/6 of a second xtra. (on a glock) my thoughts are if someone ever disarms me it is empty and it gives me time to put my elbow through their jaw or snap their arm. or should a kid come across it.
So how do you fire from retention with mr fkn huge right in your face? Youre holding him off with your left hand? How do you fire immediately after drawing with your one hand? You cant.
How likely is an accidental discharge? How likely are most people to actually engage in a gunfight in their lifetime? Carrying in the chamber just doesn't seem worth it to me.
1 in 50 million may be shot because of the extra second of racking their slide. 1 in 3 million will purposely discharge their weapon in self defense. 1 in around 100 thousand will discharge their weapon ACCIDENTALLY because of stupidity or adrenaline because they have a round in the pipe..FBI data base actually keeps track of these stats..
@@dansager1608 Excellent response. How many "One in the pipe" guys do you think care about facts and statistics? You might as well be talking to flat earthers about what causes the four seasons.
@@dansager1608 thank you for these stats. I don't actually carry when in public for my own defense as much as I do for others. So if I hear shooting and move towards it to investigate/get a shot on the aggressor I should have plenty of time to rack one. I just see a fast draw scenario especially unlikely, and if it ever happens, I'll try to be moving while racking, but I practice drawing and racking a good bit for muscle memory.
Here is my simple explanation of why I carry with an empty chamber. It has nothing to do with accidental discharge. My situational awareness is good, and I am aware of most things around me. About the only way someone is going to get the drop on me is by surprise, so here is your answer coming up. If I get surprised and the person finds my gun and grabs it, I know it's not loaded and I have a couple seconds to react. I don't want him grabbing it and pulling the trigger. There is your answer, and that is why you won't change my mind on the subject.
THANK YOU! True story. Years ago when I had not been carrying long, I was carrying unchambered. I was in a friend's shop when the back door from the alley opened. A guy stepped in wearing a mask. His hands behind his back. I popped the release on my holster and we locked eyes. He slowly backed out. Time had slowed to a crawl. Then it got me. Had he come out with a firearm I would have drawn... and my gun would have gone CLICK. That was it. I ALWAYS carry chambered.
If you draw and your gun goes click then it's a double action. Those are a lot safer than the typical tacticool warriors all carrying one in the pipe in a striker fired single action.
If your gun went click, you didnt know the condition of your weapon and you lacked training. Train the way you fight/carry, so you can fight/carry the way you train.
Just remember. Shoot the way you train and train the way you shoot. Unlocked, cocked and locked, uncocked and locked, you have to feel comfortable with your carry. Don't let anyone tell you that is wrong. If you aren't comfortable you won't carry.
I know it's very rare but, some firearms can go off without pulling the trigger even if the safety is on. Firearms are just mechanical devises that can fail. In fact, a 300 I owned was recalled because it was possible that it could have gone off without pulling the trigger if it had one in the chamber. I carried it loaded with the safety on when I was hunting with it because of lots of bears in my area. And just to think all it could have taken was a split second of the muzzle not being controlled properly and someone could have died.
We were trained to carry with an empty chamber with the model 1911 .45 in the Military Police. It is hard to change a habit ingrained in me. It is a disadvantage, but I can live with it.
I am on the side of having an empty chamber on the gun. Cons: - slower reaction in the face of danger - minus 1 round in the capacity of the gun Pros: - Significantly lower chance of accidental discharge I think its worth it, but then again, when that mountain lion decides to ambush me in the night, i could end up regretting my decision. either way..I feel a lot safer with an empty chamber and I am confident in my ability to quickly chamber the gun
+SoldierCyfix The best of two worlds: Chambered but with a manual safe on. Pros: -As safe as an empty chamber -Eliminates manual feeding issues (under stress) -Much quicker than racking the slide -Plus 1 round vs. an empty chamber
Accidental discharges as well as losing the gun to the opponent happen to the best of us, let alone the less trained. Plus, a conflict is not always about shooting the fastest, at all. I just commented on another video about the manual safety on the gun being a good idea for added safety. Same idea: there are drawbacks with either choices, but I'd always prefer safety over top speed, and train hard for muscle memory (including either disengage manual safety or load first round), speed and stress control.
I have heard it called as the 3 rule,3 seconds,3 yards,3 shots. It is true,it's not the OK Corral. Now my opinion on chambered and not chambered. When I bought my first pistol, after over ten years of my real firsts, I bought a Springfield XD .45 ACP I fell in love with it when I first held it in my hand it was a perfect fit. I always carried it not chambered because of the safety. When you grip it you take it off of safety then there's the trigger safety and I didn't trust it. After thinking about having to rack it then aim I have lost time. I bought a Beretta PX4 Storm .40 S&W a couple years later, after researching different brands, I can chamber a round and the safety decocks the gun by turning the firing pin up and out of the way for the hammer to strike it also the trigger moves freely and it's a double action. I like a .45 better myself so I sold my XD ,with the holsters I had for conceal carry,and the light I had to fit it, and I went and bought another Beretta in a .45 ACP another thing is that I have the same function gun in which caliber I choose to carry.
I carry unchambered and I'm still getting off in under a second just pointing (no sight picture) but if I need it that fast prob don't need to use sights anyway right? For me I just like knowing there's no way it's going off, and I practice my draw more often to make up that fraction of a second. It's also nice to know if some one takes it they prob won't know to rack it first.
+Sckarekrow stop being a douche bag and beating your chest. Use facts and dont attack the person in the long run you're wanting to help. If you're an instructor, be a tad bit more professional.
To all the people saying "Don't carry if you don't have a round chambered" I say this: I'd rather my buddy have an empty chamber than an empty holster.
There is also the added possibility of being in a stressful situation carrying with an empty chamber,and not pulling the the slide back enough, causing a failure to properly feed.
The sound of a racking slide alone could stop a person approaching. I carry not chambered, however my bedside protection is chambered. I opted for the extra safety step while carrying in public and I except the risk of doing so.
I carry a double action bond arms under and over daily, of course it is chambered. I practice with it , and I believed I was proficient enough with it to use it. I was mowing my grass on my 0 turn lawnmower, and spotted a snake, while not taking my eyes off the snake still operating the lawnmower in its direction at a speed to not overtake it I tried to draw . In the heat of the moment I un strapped the holster from my belt , then unsnapped the gun from the holster and had the hammer back with a gun and holster in my hand. My point is a little bit of stress is hard to train for, I did safely kill the snake, but could have hurt myself in the process. I will now practice a draw from the seated position, and practice more.
"if you don't carry with one in the chamber, don't bother carrying at all" is just pretentious bullshit. If you're comfortable to carry with one in the chamber, do so. If your for any reason aren't, don't. When I qualified to carry on duty we had to draw from a lever 3 retention holster with two separate locking systems, chamber a round and fire at 7 meters in less than 3 seconds. Everyone in my class had it down to about 2 seconds by the third day of the course. If you can't beat that with a no retention holster, go practice some more. Carry anyway you're comfortable with. Sure it might cost you half a second to rack the slide, but the fact that you're carrying at all means you're already better prepared than most.
Daniel Rehn lol I'd rather carry rather than not carry. So chamber ed or not have gun. Saying just don't carry because you don't chamber is the dumbest argument I've heard.
Daniel Rehn so when you get jumped and stabbed or ball batted or shot in your racking arm/shoulder/hand you'll be double screwed on your empty chamber , Range Boy.
Adam, are you telling that you are so weak and incapable that you can rack a firearm one handed? Like fuck, I can rack most shotguns and rifles one handed lol
For a civilian, it seems if you're jumped by an attacker from "6 to 8 feet" who is instantly lethal, that's a situational awareness problem, not a chambered gun problem. First line of defense is to not let dangerous folks inside your perimeter, and if they are, leave. I advocate for responsible folks to own and carry guns, chambered or not, depending on situation, gear, training, experience, and comfort. Belittling those who carry "Israeli style" (named after elite forces, who carried condition 3 on cold chambers) is offensive and condescending and not helpful to the gun community. For as many tactical bad ass scenarios where you need that extra 0.5 seconds and freehand to fight, there's dead people and gun owners in jail for an AD/ND situation that could have been prevented if the gun were empty. Empty chamber is a valid legit method of carry, period, as a 100% prevention of an AD/ND (in the hundreds of administrative handlings) versus the 0.00001% chance of needing it and also not having time/opportunity to chamber a round. Perhaps different assessment for cops and military who are out routinely in harms way.
Finally someone sane. We don't live in a warzone. YET. Those who do, those who live near diverse neighborhoods or in them, those might need to think of carrying hot. But if you live in a normal sane area, you are much better off with an empty one not having any risks of accidentally murdering someone or yourself.
The p320 shoots by itself without pulling the trigger. And there are many videos showing guns going off without pulling the trigger. Going by statistics there's a higher chance of danger with one in the chamber than not having one. Occasionally I carry with one in the chamber if im in rougher areas or going to the atm or doing Facebook transactions.
You need to consider the likelihood of having to engage a bad guy and balance the risk and reward. Are you a cop, keep a round chambered. Are you a stay at home mommy with a couple of kids and a gun in her purse, keep it unchambered. Are you that same mommy who just broke down in the bad part of town, make that weapon hot. Are you a dad taking the kids to a soccer game, keep it unchambered. You're that same dad, and you're working at 7-11 behind the counter, keep it loaded. Going to the mall, keep it unchambered, until the nut job shows up..... If you're in a job where you have one on one contact with people who might have a reason to get irate, then keep it chambered, until you leave for the day. If the economy collapses and home break-ins and muggings are commonplace, then by all means keep it loaded. carried a firearm for 10 years and never had to shoot anyone. Gonna go hang out at the bars with a loaded gun - don't drink.
You need to keep it in one condition and train to pull that way. The last thing you want to be thinking as you pull your gun is "did I chamber a round earlier Or did I un chamber it?"
adam zimmermann maybe, to each his own. You're probably a high speed low drag kind of guy who can handle it, with thousands of rounds fired and a couple of weeks on the range every year, might have even spent some time in training classes.. But guys like that are maybe 5% of the gun owners out there. The vast majority of guys might get to the range 6-10 times a year, shoot 500 rounds through their gun and are worried they're wearing it out and are never gonna pull. There's alot that needs to go into that decision, not just running through that one scenario where the guy is ontop of you in an instant - that's about 30% of the time. For the average person they've got to balance threat level, likelihood of actually ever needing to draw, their reaction time needed, and proficiency. The family of the mom who's little boy just shot her is wishing it would have been in condition 3. At the wallmart on the good side of town I say carry condition 3, condition 1 on the bad side of town. It's something that the individual needs to get comfortable with, they need to know themselves very well. There are folks that shouldn't carry, but they do and end up getting themselves into trouble. Know thy self and balance the risk from there. If you don't know if you've chambered the round, slam another one in there. There are skilled guys who screw up, that cop that was just shot at the range by another cop - they've gotta carry condition 1, so how do you screw up - it's like the guy who does a thousand dry fire repetitions, then on 1001, he forgets he put a magazine in the gun and bang he's got a nd. people do stupid stuff, they need to determine how frequently they do stupid stuff, balance the risk and carry accordingly. Is carrying condition 1 ideal, i believe so, for some people not everyone.
The problem in that situation was the child having access to the firearm not its condition. I would argue that people with a lower level of training are going to have a tougher time racking a round when they're in a bad situation. They'll be slower and they have a higher chance of user error causing a failure of some sort. But, my point is that you need to decide how you're comfortable carrying and train that. In a high stress situation you're going to want to know exactly what you're doing. Having your gun in a non consistent state is going to make that difficult since your brain is not going to be functioning like normal. If you are going to carry in condition 3 some of the time you might as well do it all of the time.
When an attacker comes at you is he going to conduct the same interview you just did to determine how and when to attack you? Didn't think so. Secure your weapon at home or on your person based on the realities you deal with. If you have kids, carry in a holster with retention and learn to use it. Never carry in a purse or somewhere where they can get at it. Same goes for home. Your matrix of chambered and un chambered is simply a recipe for pulling an unloaded weapon on a assailant and getting killed. I am 51 and having been carrying since I was 21 and never had to shoot anyone or even pointed my gun at anyone who didn't deserve it. And thank God, never had anything close to a incident.The responsibility of securing your weapon and preventing it from being misused and mishandled is completely independent from the condition of carry and your training. If you don't feel safe carry a weapon ready to be employed against an assailant, you shouldn't be carrying a weapon in the first place.Carry chambered or don't carry at all. IMHO.
That logic is like saying that you should only wear a seat belt based on the conditions you'll be driving in. If you're just going to the grocery store, don't put your seat belt on. If you're going on a windy mountain road with a steep drop off, wear your seat belt. If you're not expecting to get in a crash, don't wear your seat belt. If you are expecting to get in a crash, wear your seat belt. I always wear my seat belt, regardless of the road conditions or where I'm going, and I buckle my three month old in too. I also always have a round chambered, regardless of where I'm going, because I want the best chance of survival for my wife, my son, and me in a bad situation.
I will never understand the argument "If you're afraid of a ND while carrying with a round in the chamber, then you shouldn't be carrying at all". All people that carry w/o a round in the chamber want is an extra layer of safety. If that works for you and you train that way, then so be it. It's laughable when people get so high & mighty over opinions where there's no real right and wrong. Train however you carry & always follow the safety rules when handling your firearm. Don't let someone impose their opinion on you as if it is a fact. I personally carry with a round in the chamber, but ill never tell someone who isnt "You're doing it wrong". Do what makes you comfortable & always train! Stay safe!
Christen Smith you can train all you want but sometimes you may not be physically able to rack the slide. Chances are you will have enough time, but I've seen videos where someone got robbed off his motorcycle and was killed because the bad guy had a round chambered and the good guy didn't and it costed him his life. If someone has a gun pointed at you, the last thing you want to do is rack the slide.... Especially if the bad guy already has one in the chamber. You set yourself up for such a huge disadvantage. When they have a gun pointed at you, you have to obscure the draw not drawing attention to yourself. Watch any video where conceal carriers had to use their firearm. All carried with a round in the chamber and you would've thought to yourself "wow good thing he had a round in the chamber. Would've been way different if he hadn't" Guns nowadays are so safe there's no way the gun would fire unless the trigger is pulled. If youre that afraid of your gun that you can't trust YOURSELF to be safe enough. Then maybe you should train harder on THAT
I have done both and will continue to do both. If you only have one hand free, you probably aren't in a great place to draw and fire a weapon. That should have happened before your other arm became useless. Situational awareness is important here. That said, sometimes a verbal discussion can lead to an altercation in closer quarters than ideal and its only takes milliseconds for a punch to be thrown. Some cases I will carry chambered. I carry unchambered if Im going to be doing a lot of bending and moving, as opposed to just standing and walking. My EDC has no safety other than the trigger. I appendix carry IWB. There is no need to carry chambered in my vehicle. There is no need to have a chambered round at my desk, or standing in the lab. Despite the situations where carrying unchambered is fine, I still practice a draw/chamber as the gun is raised, in one smooth motion. After the gun comes out of the holster, you simply rack the slide at the same time as raising the weapon. By the time its able to even shoot a leg, its chambered. In public, walking or standing, there is every reason to carry chambered. If it is possible that a stranger could quickly invade my personal space, its going to be chambered. Theres a time and place for everything, including carrying unchambered.
I just prefer to take all the guesswork out of the equation so I walk around, gun drawn, chambered round, pointing at potential threats (little kids and Steeler fans included), finger on the trigger. Chambered Round = 1.8 secs, Unchambered Round, 2. 77 secs... My way, 0.00 secs. Math wins again. 🐴
My biggest fear is being blind sided from behind, overpowered, having my weapon taken from me, and having it used against me. I feel the benefit of chamberless in that situation is he'll get thrown off for a split second for you to pull your chambered backup concealed on your leg
no disrespect...if you have trained yourself with the israeli type of self defense draw with an unchambered firearm carry, you can present it at 1.77. same as your time with the chambered firearm...anyways to each his own. concealed carry anyways does not always mean you would be doing a draw with any attacker. sometimes it would always be best to asses the situation. its pretty hard to out draw someone who has a presented or drawn firearm.
exactly.. I can chamber and get into place with my ar or BE in about 1.8 on each. What i learned in the idf ( and it makes complete sense ). You draw your weapon and charge making that "scary noise" when you need to show force, the enemy might dis engage at that moment realizing they are no match for you and you wont have to kill someone. if that enemy shows force... BOOM. you need to be sure as an operator your gun is charged. 110% always having it chambered can change if lets say.... your wife handles the gun, or a kid pulls the slide since he cant pull the trigger but hes not strong enough to pull all the way back resulting in an un chambered round. Screw the safety aspect... Its the 110% knowing i have control over this situation that works for me. Either way it doesnt matter. train until your tired then train some more and always keep training. nothing will prepare you for the real deal. it will only make it more comfortable.
Great, now do it under stress with all kinds of stuff going on, trying to move a family member out of the way, without getting knocked over by a bystander in the worst case scenario, no one gives a damn about your shot timer or other bullshit "Israeli commando" nonsense, they do not have the monopoly on how to carry a firearm, it all comes down to how comfortable you are with carrying a firearm or if your firearm isn't reliable. If you are carrying an old firearm that has an issue with the rounds going off randomly due to impact, then by all means carry like that, but modern firearms from reliable companies do not have that issue.
Evirthewarrior you're right everyone commenting is thinking they can draw and rack so fast its not about speen its about be able to rack the gun in any situation and that is impossible just like even being able to draw in any situation the threat caould be p on and ou might have the space to get to that gun i say keep it ready to go at all times
B GerK If its extremely hard just to draw the gun, due to the position or situation you are in, imagine trying to rack it to get a round in the chamber... using whatever high speed, cool guy, ninja move, way you rack your slide.
Case for empty chambers: I've talked with other educators who carry in schools. The two biggest concerns are safety AND concealment. A big duty holster with retaining mechanism is not an option in classrooms. Deep concealment is a must and the biggest risk is a student getting a hold of the gun accidentally or on purpose that just seconds ago was on your person. For this reason, they carry with an empty chamber and train appropriately.
Concealed carry beginners, especially firearms newbies, are still safer carrying with an empty chamber than not carrying at all. You could argue that the law should allow us to walk around holding our pistols or revolvers so we don't waste time trying to quick-draw to neutralize the threat(s).
Chambered or un-chambered is largely affected by the model gun you have. Before I retired, my PD’s side arm was a SW 5906. I loved that pistol, I even bought one when I retired. That, I carried loaded, mainly because, it was double action. It had a de-cocking lever that you could use to safely drop the hammer from single action after chambering a round, so you had a double action first shot with a 9 pound trigger pull, much safer then a hot chamber on a gun that is cocked single action and a 3 pound trigger pull. I now work for an armed security agency and we use glock 17’s and I carry cold. Glock claims to have this trigger system that is just as safe as carrying chambered double action. BS. It isn’t. My old PD switched from the 5906’s to glock 17’s and the accidental discharge rate tripled. They had to send the entire department back to the range for re-training after too many accidents happened. I do agree, that the amount of time to chamber a round can cause problems, especially if you are used to carrying hot and forget to chamber. But I’d rather take the chance with the empty chamber then to accidentally shoot someone. I carry my 5906 CC, off duty and that I keep hot.
I believe in simply carrying to your personal comfort level. In a defensive situation, charging a round is only a half second away, and Its the way I practice presenting every time anyway. I don't believe it is unsafe, but I feel more comfortable with an empty chamber. I understand both sides, but for me, I am okay with having one less round, and having a slower draw speed as well so that I will be comfortable with my firearm at all times.
@@felixandresjc my original comment was made when I was younger and less experienced, to be fair. If I had a 1911 style pistol, then I would absolutely carry cocked and locked. If it’s a double action like my Beretta 92X, I would typically carry it one in the chamber, hammer down, safety off. The Glock has one in the chamber these days.
The biggest danger is inadvertent discharge during your draw. Everyone can successfully draw during firing practice but when faced with an actual emergency there's to big a risk of shooting yourself. That extra second probably won't matter. Remember, most people who carry don't get to the range weekly and may not have enough practice to make the risk worth it. Be safe. If you're in an area where you need to carry a round chambered, find another place to do your shopping.
I'm all for carrying with a round chambered if you train to do so, but I also carry a gun with a thumb safety because I will never trust ANY gun not to go off. I mean, if someone is well well-trained and their finger isn't on the trigger, is it ok for them to paint you with their barrel? Why would they paint themselves all day long while they're carrying without taking precautions? Especially for a Glock or other guns with no safety (For the record, a "trigger safety" or safe-action trigger isn't a safety at all, you just don't pull the trigger if you don't want to fire, like every gun) there are reasons to be worried about carrying with a round chambered and these are VALID concerns. It seems videos like this are oversimplifications of the choice to carry chambered. It's not just inexperience or lack of training that leads people to make a "bad decision" and not carry with a round chambered, as way too many of these videos suggest. I'll give 4 reasons. 1. You can't guarantee that you will be given 1.84 seconds to draw, ie the assailant may be tackling you or shooting you as you try to draw. I don't care how much you train, when you're getting tackled your finger could slip. Not to mention, there is a lot of merit to looking for cover if you're going to be firing at an active shooter or shooters. You may not have 1.84 seconds to stand there and draw before you are shot. I've never been shot, but I can imagine I might let my trigger finger slip if I did get shot as I try to draw. Chambering a round from cover is pretty easy, btw. 2. You can't guarantee that you WON'T be given more than 3 seconds to draw and, thus, have the time to chamber a round. Some people may knowingly choose to take the risk that they might not have time to draw and chamber a round prior to shooting to avoid taking the risk of accidental discharge while carrying/drawing. Frankly, whether you agree or not, that's their choice - it's their femoral artery they're pointing their own gun at all day. 3. Many people are experienced with carrying guns. In fact some may be too "experienced." If you have a 75 year old carrying a firearm because they've done so for years, and they lose their footing, slip, or trip as they draw their gun, then you have a high probability for accidental discharge. Elderly people are not as physically capable as they once were. Almost all of these videos seem to be made with the idea that a fit, young/middle-aged person is carrying a gun. This video doesn't cover elderly gun owners as a point of topic. It would be interesting to hear the DTS view on elderly or partially disabled gun owners carrying. 4. Many people can't or won't get the kind of training they need to be responsible enough to be walking around with a round chambered. For those that can't afford that training, should they be denied their right to bear arms? People should be able to practice drawing without buying rounds, but going through the whole motion involves shooting at the end and people need to be practicing their shooting as well. That gets expensive quick. Are we really going to say that poor people shouldn't have guns? It seems to me that people living in poor areas are at the greatest risk and the reason they take that risk is because they can't afford to move elsewhere, much less shoot 500-1,000 rounds a month or pay for gun training classes. I'd feel safer if such a person didn't keep a round chambered, but we'll only truly know in the moment a problem happens whether it hurts or helps.
I love this reply!!! It bugs the hell out of me when people act like the way they do things is the best or only way to do it. "If you feel uncomfortable carrying chambered, you probably shouldn't be carrying"... WTF??? If you feel like the gun will never discharge except for when the trigger is squeezed, then let me point my gun at you and your family all day with one chambered!!! How stupid can people be. As far as this video goes, the guy obviously takes more time to shoot and holster his firearm with the "empty chamber". Not because he has to, he simply takes more time squeezing the trigger. Yes it may take a bit more time without a round being already chambered, but taking a bit more time may be just as important. Maybe you didn't realize that there was someone behind the person you're engaging. These people act like a damn buzzer is giving them the feeling of pressure...lol Put your child in the picture, now is your first instinct to engage or get your child to a safe place? In that case does it really matter how long it takes to draw your gun?
I appreciate this video and the comments - ex-military and avid handgun freak and general paranoiac - but I can't help but think that this discussion misses the greater point that MOST self-defense situations with a gun are NOT NOT NOT some sort of quickdraw contest. Okay, you have to add a second if you are carrying without a round in the chamber- if ONE SECOND is literally the difference between life and death then you didn't have a chance to begin with. You got droned or some shit, because most of the time you can defuse a potentially hazardous scenario by just drawing down on someone.
Just took a tactical training class, they also believe in chamber empty. Instructor also stated special Ops train that way as well. There are studies that show in the heat of the moment when you fire your weapon there is alot that happens to your body and your weapon, which includes but is not limited to, not using sights or reset or reloading, So finger out of trigger could also not happen when you want it to. He demonstrated better split times by racking than you did without racking. That being said I carry with one in the chamber.
+David Curtis Griffin - still pretty silly logic. what is a semi-auto pistol going to do that a revolver can't? (other than hold a few more rounds and eject the spent casing)
+USMartyrMachine119 It is a lie, you aren't more safe, but less safe because half of the issues you may need to pull your gun for may require an immediate discharge. Every other danger to a chambered gun is an issue of preparation, training and equipment. Have those squared away and a chambered gun is completely safe.
I carry a Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 9mm, I have a CCW, Admittedly, I need more training which is in works...I've been 100% anti guns my entire life until I decided to put my ignorance, fears, biases, and probably stupidity behind me this year and learn about handguns, I am crazy about them but still not entirely comfortable. With that being said, I am very afraid of "Accidental Discharge", a mechanical failure in my weapon which would accidentally discharge the chambered round. I do have a thumb safety but I'm told that could fail too. Are my fears warranted for my M&P Shield 9mm or is it safe to carry chambered? I also realize in a real life crisis, there is no way in hell I'd react calmly by unholstering my weapon, racking the slide, disengaging the safety, and then engaging threat. I'd be dead so I'm not sure what to do. Thanks in advance, any help is appreciated.
If you're not comfortable carrying with a round chambered, then you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun. Guns do NOT just fire by themselves. If you're one of those people who wants to carry without a round in the chamber, then you absolutely NEED to train that way each and every time. If you don't, the fact that you have a gun won't matter, because you WILL be that person who tries to shoot a bad guy with an unloaded weapon. Practice with your firearm, and take it seriously. Carrying a gun is meaningless if you don't know how to use it.
Static Electricity can cause the round to fire. One of the police officers in my town was shot in the knee getting out of his vehicle. This is probably as likely as being hit by lightning. However I guess it does happen.
That being said I completely agree with you Training is the most important way to be safe and confident when planning for defensive shooting no matter how you carry. Many defensive pistols don't have a safety because in the heat of the moment people forget to take their safety off. I would hate to hear about that happening to someone without a round in the chamber. I carry one in the chamber. Because as they say if you aren't always prepared you are never prepared...
Every accidental discharge had one thing in common, a round in the chamber. There have been plenty of experienced people that have accidents, no one is perfect. Even the most experienced drivers some times cause accidents the same can be said for fire arms. But no one can say what is best for you, and me. And in any case when handling a tool that is intended to take a human life, respect it is the first thing we must do, and second is train, no matter how you carry.
I keep all my firearms loaded but not chambered. To me it's a personal preference. It's takes so little time to chamber a round. If I was ALREADY in a dangerous situation I would carry hot.
Sckarekrow We both know that makes no sense. YES, they are loaded and if you don't know the difference between loaded and unloaded maybe firearms are not for you.
Sckarekrow You seem very mature. Turning a SIMPLE debate into a name calling argument. Rather than engage me in an open dialogue and discuss this you chose to throw a temper tantrum on youtube. Wanna be taken seriously? Talk to me like an adult. You wanna argue about loaded vs chambered then be a man; not a pissy teenager who has to talk loud and use insults to get his point across.
+Sckarekrow Every range Ive been on that's ran by marines say load and make ready, or just load. The 'make ready' part referring to chambering a round, so to them and the government it's still considered loaded because there are rounds loaded into the firearm, chambered or not. I think it could be debated either way but when you become hostile for no reason I would say that makes your point seem inept
Sckarekrow So if someone handed you a firearm with bullets in the magazine but not in the chamber you don't consider that someone handing you a loaded weapon? I can see your point about loaded vs unloaded in a combat environment; but here in the states we are not in an active warzone. Loaded in terms of common sense and legal definition means any rounds in the gun, or in an attached magazine. I seriously don't know why this has to be a debate!? I cannot fathom why your so angry over simple terminology. There is a difference (as I am confident your aware of given your military background) between carrying hot and carrying loaded. A gun is loaded until physically cleared of all ammunition.
I'm considering pocket carrying a sig p232 for my first gun (in a pocket holster of course) I've watched videos from instructors before but what I'm getting at is should I be worried about pocket carrying one in the chamber with no safety bec the sig I want doesn't have a safety a reply would be most appreciated I understand keeping my trigger finger off the safety is my biggest safety and to follow the 4 Cardinal gun safety rules I guess I just need reassurance on this again I would appreciate feedback as a new gun owner
Great video can't agree with you more. All these tools who are arguing with you need to pull the design and blueprints for any modern gun and see that they don't just "go off" there are actually reasons they fire. Education and training go a long way in everything we do not just guns, some of these people really need to learn that.
Rick Nethery hichock even mentions that when he puts a fire arm down even if it’s unloaded when he picks it back up even if it’s a second later he treats it as if it’s loaded and checks the chamber this is a habit I will be glad to use and make into an instinctive habit so that way it’s a automatic In my training.
Bottom line is the tenth of a second or however long it takes to rack the slide could mean life or death. I carry a full size 1911 cocked locked ready to rock. Bottom line is training. You could never have enough period. Love the channel
Hmm. Well here is my 2 cents worth on that. As it was once said to me when I first got into the law enforcement firearm and defensive tactics instructor world, "never say never, never say always". Because in a class of 32 people, there is often 1 person who is smarter than you, more experienced than you or just observant. They will make you look like a fool. When I did a stint away from our training academy to train Iraqis I had the chance to work with a lot of law enforcement from the USA, Britain, former USSR, Swedish, Hong Kong and eastern block countries. We had lots of time to compare notes and collaborate on the lesson plans and techniques. While chatting with my good friend from a former USSR country, he talked about why they "always" (a word what is best left out of a lesson plan) carried their weapons not chambered. Mainly it was to give them more of the universal safety that is often spoken of but not clearly defined. The one thing he said that caught my attention was that it would give the officer more time to decide if he really wanted to shoot the suspect. Since it takes time to cycle the action, that would be more time to think. Not my cup of tea. I am from the school that I have decided that I need my weapon out and chambered. Firing it is a decision made while the round is chambered and moving the finger to the trigger and squeezing is all that is left to do. However, my questions to him were asked considering a proper holster with trigger guard and level 3 retention as well as safe storage being properly attended to: How much longer will it take me to cycle the weapon to chamber the round if I am already shot or stabbed in my support arm and cannot use it? How will I manage to cycle the action if I am already in a close quarter combat situation and the suspect it trying to stick me with an edged weapon, choke me from behind or is on top of me and I have my support arm busy blocking Thor's Hammer style punches? He said he had not thought about those things. Happily he felt that the points had merit and he was more settled with the lesson plans and demonstrations as were being taught. Now like I started off in this rant, never say never. Can I envision a time when public and police safety might be better served with the chamber being empty? Yes, when I am forced by circumstances beyond my control which require me to carry without a holster. When might that be? Unexpected need to move from uniform to plain clothes. Carrying a backup weapon in uniform but inside my body armour (see how I spelled that? Canadian) and I am sure there are a bunch of you out there with examples. My preference, chambered whenever possible. And yes, in my 34 years as a cop, firearms and defensive tactics and even before I carried a badge as a karate instructor back in the 70's and onward, I did have many occasions where I learned I was not the smartest guy in the room. For you kind consideration.
the additional times are because he's moving overall slower on the re holster and hesitating on the trigger pull in the second portion (simulated un chambered)
Exactly. This is why LEO models are DA only and have decockers. Any other model for those of any hesitancy (who should also reconsider carry in the first place or train until they are confident) can also go for models with DA/SA, external safeties and decockers. Military and law enforcement don't generally have externals because they are trained and in the moment they need to produce that sidearm racking the slide or thumbing the safety becomes a liability.
My decision varies. Sometimes I carry one on the chamber, and sometimes I don't. My grandfather who is a WWII veteran gave me that habit. He told me to its up to me and my current situation in what time should decide on. If I go to my nephews basketball game, most likely I won't have one in the chamber. Now let's say I have to go to a sketchy place. Let's say for a job then most likely I will have my gun chambered. It really depends on what situation you are in.
Robert lol I like your sarcasm. But if I was in Syria I would have an ak. I'm from Ashland ohio. We are comfortable with firearms. Plus it's just an example. It's open carry here in Ashland Ohio.
I have been concealed carrying for better than 15 years, with and without a holster. I have always carried hot! With only seconds to make a decision, acquiring your target by far and higher priority than remembering to rack a round !
I don't see why you are so worried about your time differences for chambered or unchambered. Your draw time is much too slow! You should have your draw time well under 1 second like .75 or .90. You NEED to change your technique.
If I can't get my draw time under a second, does that mean I cannot defend myself? I used to be a pro-timer guy, until I realized I won't have a buzzer going off if I need to use my defensive firearms. Also, I'm taking all that time I used to put on the range to get faster in an 100% controlled environment to improve my skills within one arms reach and medical arena. Thank you for taking the time to watch my video though.
TheTrainingEvolution Having a draw under 1 second is not practice, it's technique. If you think getting under 1 second with your technique is going to improve with practice you are wasting valuable time on the range. But hey, good luck with that and also learning medical skills.
+Andy Peterson Cool let's say it's all technique, like you said. You still have to practice a technique because just by doing a technique, it's not automatic. I'm not going to worry about trying to hit a magic time in a 100% controlled environment. That's like practice saying technique of three gun for getting better at defensive shooting. And thanks, I passed EMT school.
TheTrainingEvolution How much practice is required to take a radial pulse?....almost none. Once you learn the location (and you can count) that's it, you are able to take a pulse on somebody's wrist/forearm forever. It is so basic and necessary with coming up with the proper treatment for a patient in the field. You are very narrow minded, stubborn, and your draw technique sucks for self defense. A proper draw is so basic, like taking a pulse, doing one and getting it under 1 second is like chewing your food and swallowing without choking. If you prefer to make the simple so complicated then that is the course you choose and building upon it will only reap limited results.
+Andy Peterson Here's the deal brother, I don't live on the square range. I want my "draw" to work well within one arms reach. That is why I'm bringing the gun has high as possible so I can get a pectoral index if needed and/or to clear the holster in general. Once you get past all you need is speed, we can have a real conversation.
what if you only have one hand to use to draw your firearm while fending someone off with the other? How will you rack it then? This is a pointless argument. Unchambered is inferior in every single way. No decent trainer would ever tell you to put yourself at a disadvantage with no safety gained at all.
+Adam Nichols No shit, right? I feel like people who carry on an empty chamber because, "I don't want to shoot myself" are either too inexperienced with their firearms, or just plain incompetent. Especially if they've been carrying a firearm for longer than a year. If you can carry a gun on an empty chamber for more than a year without the trigger being depressed at the end of the day, then why don't you carry on a loaded chamber? You've already proven that you're capable of carrying a firearm without depressing the trigger, and nearly EVERY modern firearm you buy now has drop protection that will nearly guarantee that the gun will NOT discharge, no matter how violently you "drop" it. I have always carried on a loaded chamber, because I realize the possibility of needing to employ my firearm in a life and death situation with only one hand. If you're on the ground with your face being beat in, are you going to have the capability to draw, rack, and fire in your own defense? Hell no. When it matters, you'll be just as defenseless as if you didn't even have a gun in the first place. I just don't understand anyone who uses the safety excuse for their empty chamber.
+MistPassiert "nearly every firearm" and "nearly guarantee". So the conclusion is that it isn't safe with any gun? :) Maybe you should not generalize then :) Beats me how you can say an empty chamber is not safer. There are just more actions that have to coincide by shear luck to make a round go off. So if a chambered round needs the safety off and the trigger pulled, this gives you a certain degree of safety. When you do not chamber a round, there is an additional action to be taken place (and a hard one as well) that makes it even more unlikely. Hence, it's always safer regarding accidents.
I'm talking about not being able to guarantee that the $50 pocket pistol you bought from that pawn shop in downtown that doesn't have a serial number and doesn't appear to have been cleaned or serviced in 30 years won't malfunction while it's bangin' against your junk unsecured in a holster. When I say nearly every firearm, first, I was referring to firearms with drop safeties mechanically built into them: I mean modern firearms designed for conceal carry. Hammerless, normally striker fired (in the case of Smith and Wesson M&Ps and newer "polymer pistols" as the community refers to them), many without manual safeties. I've seen footage of a glock being dropped from 500' and it didn't discharge the round in the chamber. Carrying your grandfather's 1911 from WWII in the half-cocked position is asking for trouble. You could probably sneeze on that hammer and the round would go off. As with any mechanical device, there are possibilities of failure, as Taurus has proven with their massive recall on thousands of firearms. I can guarantee that nobody has had an Accidental (Negligent is a completely different story) discharge while carrying a modern firearm in good service condition in a holster designed for that particular firearm that properly secured the firearm (none of those stupid glock trigger guard "shields") with a round in the chamber. If you can prove to me otherwise, please do, I'll admit when I'm wrong. The argument that an empty chamber is "safer" than a loaded chamber only applies to the consideration of whether the firearm can discharge a live round either intentionally or unintentionally into an unintended target. It does not make the user more safe in the unfortunate case that they are forced into an altercation where in order to defend themselves, they only have the use of one hand. For instance, a physical altercation like George Zimmerman's or a mother or father carrying a child. Carrying a firearm without a round in the chamber may give you peace of mind, until you're forced to draw that firearm with one hand, and it's worth little more to you than a brick would be. I carry with one in the chamber because I invest in a quality holster that I know will not allow my firearm to discharge without unholstering it. That and I don't want to be a victim of my own paranoia that my gun might mysteriously decide to turn on me and shoot me.
+Adam Nichols Here's my two cents: If someone is close enough to be grappling with me, I'm not drawing my gun. I'm going for my push knife until I can create some distance. Once I have some distance I'll deploy my firearm. Personally, I carry with a round in the chamber, but I've noticed that some people who concealed carry think their gun is the best tool for any and every situation that might arise. I respectfully disagree.
ComocosonoEWL I really don't care what you think I do not know, but the point I tried to make still remains: not chambering a round is always safer. Let's take a child picking up your unattended gun. You can rant all you want about how one should take more care keeping the gun out of reach, but the fact remains that, if it does happen, the chances of an accident are much smaller without a chambered round. It's safer, period. :)
It's amazing to see so many experts in the comments. The only reason I ever carried without a round in the chamber was because I wasn't confident in myself or the reliability of my firearm. I have a feeling the majority of the experts in the comments have the same reasoning even though they deny it
For me it's situational. If I am just at home or around town here where there is not very much threat of violence, I generally carry unchambered. If I am going to an area where there is a higher likelihood for something to happen (I.E. when I had to go to the "bad side of town" while working for the census) I carry with a round chambered.
In my opinion, there are 2 issues with carrying two different ways. First, muscle memory may kick in and you may forget that you have an empty chamber. If you train to rack the slide every time, you might as well always carry empty because you should train with the same draw every time. Second, you never know when the danger will arise. I believe you should always carry in a way that you can draw your weapon and be ready in the fastest way possible.
You are a tragedy waiting to happen. You live in denial...the number one mistake! As others have pointed out - you have no idea where you are. Thst video is the biggest joke on the net right now.
I noticed that. After he chambered the round he paused and aimed. He didn't do that with the chambered version. Just goes to show he could probably practice carrying non chambered and the time difference would be negligible.
If it's 3 seconds, chambered or not isn't the debate. Getting under your shirt to access the firearm will add to your time. At least here in Florida. Open carry is not allowed. Your clocking in your time with your firearm holstered and easily accessible.
+Heath Panganiban He said not to worry about the actual averaged numbers, he was more focused on which took longer. Regardless of how you draw or where your clothes are, carrying with a round in the chamber will be faster. That was his point.
How does the delta of the time not matter? I understand empty takes longer, but its 0.9 sec longer. So is 0.9 sec quicker on the draw worth the risk of an accidental discharge during day in day out carry? That is the up to the carrier. I agree with most, much more likely to have an AD then need that 0.9 sec in a quick-draw gun fight during one's lifetime. Besides, you don't want to be that guy who shot himself in the leg because he had a weapons malfunction.
+DoomBeagle How many rounds can you fire at full speed (which you would be in a self defense situation) can you fire in .9 seconds.... that's how much of a disadvantage you are putting your self in by having to chamber before you can start firing...also if you are having to fend of an attacker with your support hand its gonna take you much much longer to get a round chambered to get your gun into the fight
+DoomBeagle Exactly. People who tirelessly advocate that everyone who owns a gun should carry a round chambered lose sight of this. Moreover, they assume that the time it takes to rack the round will be the difference between life and death. To them, there is no in between. To them, if you carry without one chambered, then you will never be able to use your weapon in self defense. And on top of that, since so many people say that wanting to carry without a round chambered means that you shouldn't carry at all, they seem to imply that carrying a gun without a round chambered will actually put you at some sort of disadvantage in life. Weird arguments.
I have always for over 24 years carry with one in the chamber. I have chosen to because I want to be able to react if I need to without the thought of rack the slide to chamber a round.
I knew a couple U.S. Army MPs wh told me they were not allowed to carry a chambered round while on duty. Sounds believable and par for the course for the U.S. Army.
Sckarekrow I was just going off what I've seen, and what my cousins from Israel have told me in the past. They were quite surprised when my brother and me told them that we carry with guns chambered
+politicalsheepdog Same in the Norwegian army. The reason is safety, but the second thing is that its fucking frighting when someone chambers the gun while pointing it at you. Makes you stop and drop in any way possible (if you're sane, that is).
***** The Reason the U.S. Army doesn't chamber a round is because they don't trust their people. As a Sheriff's Deputy, I've been carrying a round in the chamber of my duty Pistol for over 20 years and have had zero accidents. Fifteen of those years was a Glock 17.
Great vid...however...the general gun-carrying public runs the gamut, and for every person that's properly trained on how to carry with one in the chamber, there are probably an equal (or greater) number of folks that certainly took the required course for certification, but have no further subsequent training...and unfortunately, that means accidental discharges are bound to happen. So while I think the carrying public OUGHT to have a chambered round...I'd rather most folks not consider it, unless they have the training for it. Just my opinion.
I've trained with the FBI and a major city's SWAT team. If you are uncomfortable with a round in the chamber, those people should leave it home and carry pepper spray. I don't want to be the guy (or my family) catching one when they forgot I was behind the bad guy. If one hasn't the confidence to carry a loaded weapon they are not ready to carry and probably wouldn't drop the hammer anyway. If this sounds harsh it's because this isn't paint ball. This is life-and-death.
I don't agree on that, such an argument is sounds elitist and is the antithesis of the (personal) right to bear arms. Not semi-auto pistols, the avg. person just doesn't get enough training for me to think everyone should keep one in the chamber. Wheel guns are a different matter, but not as many people carry those nowadays.
You can disagree all you like but any individual who doesn't trust one in the chamber will fail if not rigorously trained to draw and chamber. It's not "elitist". Thiss is not some game where "I'm better than you". This is a one shot deal at life and death and if you aren't trained to consider it as such then carry pepper spray and hope they just want your money because no one who doesn't trust one in the chamber is going to instinctively take that shot when a split second matters. It is a well-known axiom that in a crisis situation you default to your lowest level of training you can perform at under stress. If you have never had to draw weapons and point them at people and hinge on a split second as to whether you fully squeeze the trigger, then you can't possibly relate to what I am telling you any qualified instructor will state.
Never said it was a game sir...but if it makes you feel better, YOU can carry one in the chamber all you like...I just don't feel we should encourage the general carrying public to be packin' cocked and locked.
"I just don't feel we should encourage the general carrying public to be packin' cocked and locked." It is obvious you have no training under stress nor have you ever been in a situation to understand what a gun being leveled at you feels like. If someone feels uncomfortable with a round in the chamber they need to train until they do, or leave the weapon home. I already know that a split-second matters. You have not grasped that concept yet nor have you ever needed that split-second when trying to chamber a round under an adrenalin dump will turn into tragedy unless highly trained to draw and chamber in one perfectly fluid motion. Since you have a fear of a round chambered, can you tell me how many people were shot by accident today with a loaded gun either in a holster or as it was drawn from a holster? Can you locate even one story? .
"Storage" trigger locks are stupid because what's the point? If you're going to take the time to lock up a firearm, why even keep it loaded? If you need it, you've already failed. As far as carrying unchambered, same principle. Threats can present themselves in milliseconds. You won't always have the convenience of chambering. That spec op is full of crap. I guarantee any guys getting dropped into a hot LZ or black zone are cocked and ready to rock prior to boots on the ground. Close quarter combat doesn't allow time for unchambered, safety bullshit. YOU are the safety! Get trained and get some discipline.
Amen brother. I was a Marine and in a lot of close quarter battles, and we ALWAYS were locked and loaded. Every second could cause you your life. But this is not Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I personally carry a weapon everywhere I go, and it's always ready to go. But for those without discipline, keep it unloaded for safety. That's why people shoot themselves like Plexico Burress. There is no, oh the gun went off by itself. Nope. You touched that trigger, so be careful and know your limitations. Semper Fidelis...
+rts Being condition 1 with an open holster is different than being condition 1 with an IWB holster. In combat, you're always condition 1 because you are either pointing the weapon away from you at all times (leg holster points pistol away from you, and rifle is always on hand). Combat is a separate scenario in my opinion.
Ok so it adds one second. I'm wondering how often anyone would be in a situation where one second makes a difference. I'm sure if we search we can find one, but how often has any CC person ever actually used the gun in defense? 1% of all ccs? Less/more? Now add to this how often a gun does accidentally discharge or a kid accidentally shoots a friend. Everyone will then say the gun wasn't stored right or the person followed wrong technique. True. But how often is someone accidentally shot vs a real cc defense situation and I suspect the numbers would be alarming. 10:1, more? Any guesses or how we could get the stats to compare? My guess is the risk/reward would steer us to cc unchambered.
In the US there is an approximately 600 deaths per year related to negligent discharge and approximately 15,000 reports of non fatal negligent discharge per year. On the other side of it, guns are used approximately 100,000 times per year in self defense situations. I could not find stats on deaths in self defense but... Obviously a death does not occur in every scenario. Most of the time the bad guy will run off as soon as he sees your weapon. This information was according to the National Crime Victimization Survey. You may find different sites with different numbers but in every case, a gun is used more often to defend yourself than it is for negligent discharge. And by the way, a round fired by a handgun travels around 950ft/sec (give or take), most attacks happen within 10ft... Looks like every second does count
Shit happens when you're irresponsible. That's a fact of life for everything, not just guns. I'm not going to change what I do because of what happens to .0000002% of gun owners
BoGooSE I'm on the fence about it. That same percent is about the number of cc that will actually use the gun in any kind of situation. So most of this is fear. I gotta carry just in case. So my point is risk reward. The chance that the gun will actually be used vs the chance of negligent discharge. Then, can you afford the legal defense either way?
Don't get me wrong I understand what you are saying. For me, I trust myself 100% when it comes to firearms. I'm military I get trained so often it's almost ridiculous. If someone else wants to carry a different way than me, go ahead. I'm just not changing how I do things because others disagree or are scared, I'm not.
I'm afraid I could fall asleep while carrying my firearm and have my child aquire my firearm from my person. for now, they can't rack a round, and therefore cannot ever be harmed by it.
+JustTheMessenger4u If your kid is old enough to know to not touch a hot burner twice and you haven't tought them to not touch a gun yet, that's a trainer issue, not a student issue.
That's a poor argument. You tell a child not to touch a stove, they touch it anyway and get burned. You teach a child not to touch a firearm, and they die from it - end of story. There's no touching a loaded firearm twice.
JustTheMessenger4u Trainer issue, not student issue. Stop blaming the student and the lesson. It's your responsibility. Be a man. Be a dad. Do your job.
I'm confused. Doesn't your gun have a safety lever that prevents you from accidentally discharging your chambered round? Mine does have that and I can definitely simultaneously draw&aim while setting the gun to armed. It's just a reflex movement of my thumb.
Skidz1818 Really? When did the law change? My G19, purchased in Cali, does not have a manual safety. There are conversion kits that allow one to put a manual safety on a Glock, but they void the warranty.
Lots of hardcore, tac'd out, superhuman, awesome, armchair warriors here... It's true, that split-second may mean life and/or death at a critical time when you need your gun. But is there really documented proof there? Or is this all keyboard theory based on your super-awesome "I'm a badass" weapons handling knowledge? That's a spit second. Okay, let's acknowledge that. Furthermore, a split-second that MAY NEVER HAPPEN in one's entire lifetime. You fail to acknowledge however, the flipside of that. THOUSANDS OF HOURS of daily gun handling, holstering and deholstering, etc thruout a person's lifetime - and it's not by "chance" like an armed encounter. It's an unavoidable "everyone will go thru it" fact. Talk about RISK. Eventually, people will gain confidence in carrying chambered, at least I think so. But instead of belittling them with your superior carrying skills and giant balls of steel, at least encourage them to be fast unchambered, for now. Until they gain confidence that only Adonises like you possess.
+Angel Cruz I don't even carry so take it from a non-tac'd out non-superhuman guy, but if someone is running at you at 10mph, a nice, brisk run, they'll cover 15 feet in the extra second it took whoever to rack the slide. If you have someone fit that is sprinting at you, they'll cover double that, and Usain Bolt would cover 40 ft. I think knowing that most altercations happen at close ranges and how fast things can go down might inspire more confidence in carrying chambered
+Angel Cruz Well said! Thank you. I just don't get it. This is the gun community... let's be positive people! If some of us don't like carrying chambered, why are the, presumably, more confident and more qualified people the ones who are making us feel incompetent and stupid for preferring safety over an extra second? You're 100% correct in your analysis of risk. I will more than likely never need to fire my weapon. I hope I don't have to. But I will continue to carry it with me a lot. The risks of having a round chambered outweigh the risks of having a gun on me without a round chambered. End of story. Plus, it's not that I'm worried about what I'll do to make the gun go off as much as I'm worried about those events or circumstances that I have no idea about right now... I'm scared of the unknown, so I do one thing to prevent the unknown from happening.
+Sckarekrow I'm not seeing the parallel between actually carrying a loaded gun and not being prepared. Chambered/ unchambered, its still loaded. If the ninjas materialize and one is unprepared that is a situational awareness problem, not a "one in the pipe" problem.
It's completely unnecessary to walk around with a chambered pistol for day to day life. I don't buy the whole millisecond could've saved your life scenario. The only exception to this rule would be if you knew you were about to be in imminent danger. So that might apply to law-enforcement, Tony Soprano, military, or a zombie apocalypse. Yes, you could technically train enough for this to be considered safe however subjective and ambiguous it's sure to always remain. Beeeeeeecause it's overkill, illogical, and totally unnecessary.
Digitalbumpin ha ha ha! Killing me with that shit... Studies suggest i'm better off without a pistol than with one not chambered, mmmnoo. My argument sir, is for the mass majority of people that go to the gun range. Seldom, do most practice more than once a month if that, and by most, I mean really most never practice drawing from the hip with a chambered pistol which is exactly what you would need to practice to be adequate and competent at such a daily practice of conceal carry. If your pistols equipped with a safety other than a Trigger Shoe safety, that certainly does change things but, a large majority of people carry Glock's and for that reason I say what I say. Yes it's safe if you actually practice, if you're actually competent, if you're actually invested, but most people I see at the pistol range don't even hold a pistol correctly so they should most certainly not be walking around with a chamber pistol because half of them have a concealed carry license. Guess what they're going to do when they see this video? Theoretically I completely agree with it just not realistically for most conceal carry persons.
Digitalbumpin My other argument against what you said is "human instinct will make you pull the trigger before racking it." If you're not trained enough to control that poor reflex then you shouldn't have one chambered that's my whole argument.. Are you suggesting that (you) can't control that and to rectify poor control you should go ahead and carry a pistol chambered? Shit you're probably going to shoot somebody 3 feet to the side and 15 yards past the person you're pulling the pistol on, if that's the case, maybe you shouldn't carry a pistol at all.
Matt, your silly (and deadly) misconception is that it is only a question of time, it is more about the possibility of that off hand or arm not being available to rack your gun, so the time to rack becomes meaningless if you can't do it, dead already.
so, heres a hypothetical scenario. You're being assaulted and you are fending off the attacker with one hand. The attacker is right on top of you. How will you chamber the gun when you only have one hand? On the ground getting your head bashed in? How will you chamber? Held at gunpoint and have a split second to draw and fire when the attacker is distracted or turns his back? Scenarios wont always play out like you think they will.
Anyone who has young kids and a concealed carry permit should not be carrying chambered. I accept an extra second or two to chamber the round to ensure that in a moment of carelessness one of my kids can't pick-up my gun and kill themselves. If that means I die because I was too slow then I'm okay with that, but under no circumstances could I forgive myself if one of my kids got hurt.
+No Libbies how would your kids get ahold of your weapon? What kind of action does it have? If it's double first pull and you have a standard trigger then they cannot likely pull the trigger. Strong enough to pull the trigger, strong enough to rack the slide.
So, the first thing you do when you draw the gun is immediately fire the weapon? Because I've always thought youd want to give the bad guy the opertunity to recognize you have a gun and that they should stop there. I dont know about you but i would rather not have to fire my weapon than shoot the person. Im not saying im not prepared to use the weapon, im saying im prepared to let someone else live and avoid the repercussions of killing a human being if just drawing the weapon is enough to stop the threat. So in that situation, it would almost be more advantageous to carry unchambered because that act of chambering the round shows the attacker that you are now ready to fire if they make you. Thats just my opinion i guess. Let people carry their gun the way they feel most comfortable
I would also like to mention that i do carry chambered. But i just find it annoying that you are showing off how quickly you can just pull your gun and start shooting. There are very few REAL LIFE situations were it is acceptable to just start firing the instant you draw your weapon in a self defense situation. Take a class on the legal repercussions of shooting someone even in self defense. The guy in this video has a pretty high chance of being charged with manslaughter due to the fact that he is just going to pull, shoot, ask questions later
There are quite a few scenarios in which firing instantly on the draw would be justifiable. Not only that, in many states if the shooting occurred in your car or home you would not be charged with manslaughter. Imagine someone breaks into your house with a gun or knife, or someone mugs you with a gun or knife, or someone is physically attacking you. In those situations you would be justifiable in shooting instantly after drawing. You are justified in using lethal force if you have reasonable fear for your life. It's the same standard that law enforcement are held to.
Call me. How about when a stranger at 2:30 AM is kneeling on your bed and your partner did not tell you he took the bullet out of the 1st chamber, and that click sounded like a cannon going off, of course, the intruder heard it too. I lived to tell about it, thankfully.
What was your point even about? Safety wise there will not be a problem, and the likelihood of your firing pin spring failing is either from poor care and maintenance or pure negligence of the user.
the 1 sec to chamber the gun is worth it if it means I don't injur myself or my family and I know you said with good training it won't happen but people in the top of there professions make mistakes and die from them sometimes. your acting as though you never make mistakes, like I said the 1 sec it takes to load it is worth it.
If you're carrying, I'm on the side of having a round chambered. However, for home defense, I think it should not be, (especially where there are children) simply because you generally would have the weapon stored in a safe or locked up somewhere. If you feel there is a threat for which you'd need to get your weapon at home, the difference in time becomes negligible. The chances that a child might randomly enter the correct combination to a safe are low but it has happened before, and every child nowadays knows what a gun is and how people hold them, based on what they see on TV.
+David N thats BS. you cant "educate" human nature out of people our prisons are full of educated people. my dad and his hunting buddys "educated" me, and I was in all the hunter saftey classes in school although I only needed to take the course once, because I like everything about guns, and I still would sneak my dads .357 mag out and "clear" our house when no one was home. to this day if I get a new hand gun it goes in the bed with me...I just "tell" others that its on "the nightstand" but slowly it makes its way to the gun locker time to buy another one
+David N they are not fearful of guns they are fearful of the freedom those guns represent, "free people" are who "they" are afaid of, no amount of education will fix that...and again I am well trained with firearms im not afraid to go out into our civilized society with an empty chamber...this is not Iraq
+David N it could...could...make a difference but not likely, its way more likely that you will need your seat belt while driving but I never see those kooks with their neck veins popping out over that, you are 100s × more likely to be hit by a drunk driver, than you are in need of a round in the chamber so in the scheme protection of life I find it kinda hypocritical to rage at someone for electing to keep an empty chamber...btw did I mention that I am P.O.S.T certified?...I thought so
+David N most people...most people...assume that if I dont agree with them it proves that Im "uneducated" so go back and look at your statistics, "violent crime" does not equal needing use of leathal force, much less needing a chambered round. so I will up my bet to 1000x more likely you will be in need of a seat belt than I will ever need to chamber a round
I realize this video is a couple of years old, but I will through in my $0.02. Many people (including myself on occasion) carry revolvers, so by this backwards logic, should we then carry our revolvers unloaded and a speed loader in our pocket? Of course not, that would be stupid. Not to mention, you run the risk of short stroking the slide or otherwise having a mis-feed, or any number of other issues in a real life situation when adrenaline is pumping, and your fine motor skills go to hell. Who says that you will have both hands free in order to rack the slide, let alone space and time to do so?
Hand guns only get discharged by pulling the trigger, so no. The amount of travel and weight of pull vary considerably among hand guns. If it were not safe to carry a pistol fully loaded, then they would not be manufactured as such and carried by thousands of agencies and militaries.
John Burnett Or, when they get hung on clothing and toggles. So search that on youtube and see how dangerous the accidental discharge can be and how common it is
Common for people who should not be carrying a firearm to begin with. A proper holster covers the trigger completely. Sloppy people hurt themselves everyday by being sloppy or otherwise untrained. An unloaded gun will do you no good and in fact can get you killed. As I mentioned above, there is not always time or room to rack a slide in the real world. The more you read about real life events the more this becomes evident. You are welcome to carry your piece in whatever condition you like, but you should know the score before you bet your life on condition 3.
John Burnett I'm not sure you understand the difference between unloaded and unchambered. The point of the video is to show you how simple and quickly a round can be chambered. Huge difference between unloaded and unchambered.
The speed is important but also having a round chambered gives you more versatile defense options. Like a situation when you are attacked unexpectedly and have to defend yourself in very close quarters or with someone on top of you. It will be a struggle to just draw your weapon racking the slide might be impossible. maybe one of your arms is injured you'll be glad that you already have a round chambered. What you're going to go all tacticool and rack it on your belt? How many seconds will that add to your draw time? You can't just be in a mind set that you'll recognize the threat in plenty of time to pull your weapon and rack the slide.
This maybe true, but how many "regular" ppl even practice quick draw?!? 5%? Its going to take the average person twice as long, if not longer, to draw, and then you have to factor in the Scenario. Even if someone can get the gun out and chamber it then fire in 3-4 seconds, whats the odds of that happening when an attacker is coming at them!?! Too many variables. Its best to just trust the mechanics of the Handgun, and keep it Chambered while concealed. My Glock can be thrown down the street and not discharge. I trust it with my life!
No, it's not stupid, it's a choice, and a good one if you have little kids who could EVER get to your gun in a moment of carelessness. The odds are if you need to actually pull a concealed weapon to use it, you'll have time to chamber a round. Think of all the mall shootings and the theaters, etc. If anyone would have had a weapon with an empty chamber, they would have had time to chamber a round and kill those fuckers as long as they weren't right next to them when the shooting started. But then again, if that was the case it wouldn't matter whether you had a round chambered, or not.
I dont understand why the hate? Dont carry a gun if you dont carry a round in the chamber? this makes no sense to me. Everyone should have a gun. Everyone should carry it.
There are no accidental discharges; there is only negligence. Neither of my carry guns has a safety, but they do have a long DA trigger. I have to pull the trigger all the way back under moderate load to fire. There's no way you can slip your finger into the guard and fire the weapon unless you mean to. So, yeah, one in the chamber and a DA trigger. Works for me.
Let's not let the access by children cloud the issue. It's a separate discussion. Ditto for negligent discharges, different issue. With that said, I submit that George Zimmerman would be dead today if he carried unchambered. Bottom line truth.
I disagree its very much part of the discussion. I think the moment it should be chambered should be specified. I have kids and carry unchambered theres certain moments its unnecessary. Depends on where you are, situation you're in etc.. My father had a lot of guns and carried chambered always. We had an incident where my little sister was playing around and somehow a shot went off.
firearms go off on their own all the time. I've seen it in Afghanistan, I've seen it in North Carolina, I've seen it in California. I'll stick with throwing in a small boundary (having an empty chamber) to guarantee safety.
You can carry how ever you want I'm not going to argue about something that is your choice. But honestly what firearms are you using that just GO OFF on their own!?! I've seen 2 negligent discharges in my entire life, both in Afghan, both user error, not weapon error
You have witnessed a gun fire all on it's own? With no human interaction? On several occasions?? Waitaminute... There must have been a Unicorn sitting next to these weapons, cause I have heard that Unicorns emit a special frequency that cause firearms to discharge on their own. Did you get to pet the Unicorn? I've always wanted to pet a Unicorn.
When I turn 21 I will get a concealed carry license. I will probably carry a Glock 26. I saw a thing that goes on the slide to rack the slide quicker. I personally will carry unchambered
Get training first, then have opinions. Opinions without experience (basically everyone on the internet) is stupid. Go through a sim-munition course and come out the other side with a real game plan. You are a blank slate. Find quality and competent trainers that have real world experience (the guy behind the gun counter most likely does not.) I personally recommend tacticalresponse.com the wife and I took a great 2 day fighting rifle course from them and it was the best 2 days of shooting I have had. I blew away my 13 years of Army experience and condensed what was normally a 1 week shooting package in the Army into 2 days. Great value for the money.
"A thing that goes on the slide" means you are printing like a sombich and also have 1 more thing to snag on your shirt/jacket. Either go with a round or w/o a round on a factory parts weapon. lasers and lights are also cool tech but you also have to train for them. Cool calm and collect you can do anything. Having someone target you, then come after you making you fight or flight will make you resort to however you trained. if you short stroke that gun, there is no round and chances of you creating your own stoppage. Guns with safeties is also another step, going from Glock to 1911 was not an easy task. train train train(w/o bullets in the beginning)
Empty chamber vs loaded chamber?, it all depends on who , what or where you are and or what you are doing. If I were Military/cop clearing a building (or cop on the street) hell yes I would have all of my weapons loaded and ready to go, but if I am on my Ford 800 bouncing around the farm?, I like to have an empty chamber. Not all of us need a fast draw, just having a weapon handy and where you can get to it is all most of us need.
NCLUSA , right, with common sense, you get it right both ways!
Greg p ( : RIGHT ON.
See? this is exactly what every one needs to know
The same apply to weapons stored in our houses. If we have the time to get the gun we have the time to rack it.
I keep one by the bed chambered only so I can present my ready weapon without making the extra sound, should an intruder pose a threat.
Beyond that, I have no...full mag, no chambered round. That's my pref.
I wonder how many firearm accidents began with the idea "I know what I'm doing, I've had training"
Literally ALL of them lol
AMEN!!!
Exactly this guy doesn't understand crap about training training doesn't really matter much because when you are in a real situation you will forget it. How does that boxer saying go, is it Ali who said everyone has a game plan until they get punched in the face
@@joesmith201212 So it's better to rack your slide and have a ND while presenting than have your gun ready and ND while presenting? Even with an empty chamber an untrained person can putvtheir finger in the trigger guard.
theres this gem. ruclips.net/video/vfONckOPyaI/видео.html&ab_channel=LegallyArmedAmerica
i keep mine empty, when i draw i can rack a round so fast that there is almost no time diff. maybe 1/6 of a second xtra. (on a glock) my thoughts are if someone ever disarms me it is empty and it gives me time to put my elbow through their jaw or snap their arm. or should a kid come across it.
So how do you fire from retention with mr fkn huge right in your face? Youre holding him off with your left hand? How do you fire immediately after drawing with your one hand?
You cant.
How likely is an accidental discharge?
How likely are most people to actually engage in a gunfight in their lifetime?
Carrying in the chamber just doesn't seem worth it to me.
1 in 50 million may be shot because of the extra second of racking their slide. 1 in 3 million will purposely discharge their weapon in self defense. 1 in around 100 thousand will discharge their weapon ACCIDENTALLY because of stupidity or adrenaline because they have a round in the pipe..FBI data base actually keeps track of these stats..
@@dansager1608 Excellent response. How many "One in the pipe" guys do you think care about facts and statistics? You might as well be talking to flat earthers about what causes the four seasons.
@@dansager1608 do you wanna take the chance?
@@dansager1608 lmao yes statistics
@@dansager1608 thank you for these stats. I don't actually carry when in public for my own defense as much as I do for others. So if I hear shooting and move towards it to investigate/get a shot on the aggressor I should have plenty of time to rack one.
I just see a fast draw scenario especially unlikely, and if it ever happens, I'll try to be moving while racking, but I practice drawing and racking a good bit for muscle memory.
Here is my simple explanation of why I carry with an empty chamber. It has nothing to do with accidental discharge. My situational awareness is good, and I am aware of most things around me. About the only way someone is going to get the drop on me is by surprise, so here is your answer coming up. If I get surprised and the person finds my gun and grabs it, I know it's not loaded and I have a couple seconds to react. I don't want him grabbing it and pulling the trigger. There is your answer, and that is why you won't change my mind on the subject.
You’re a beta inexperienced idiot who has no business carrying a gun in the first place.
THANK YOU! True story. Years ago when I had not been carrying long, I was carrying unchambered. I was in a friend's shop when the back door from the alley opened. A guy stepped in wearing a mask. His hands behind his back. I popped the release on my holster and we locked eyes. He slowly backed out. Time had slowed to a crawl. Then it got me. Had he come out with a firearm I would have drawn... and my gun would have gone CLICK. That was it. I ALWAYS carry chambered.
If you draw and your gun goes click then it's a double action. Those are a lot safer than the typical tacticool warriors all carrying one in the pipe in a striker fired single action.
@@jhonnybravosc No they aren't. Both gun types are equally safe. The unsafe variable is the user.
If your gun went click, you didnt know the condition of your weapon and you lacked training. Train the way you fight/carry, so you can fight/carry the way you train.
@@NomadPhilosopher Exactly. This comment is just another "what if" story.
Train to chamber a round while unholstering your weapon.
Just remember. Shoot the way you train and train the way you shoot. Unlocked, cocked and locked, uncocked and locked, you have to feel comfortable with your carry. Don't let anyone tell you that is wrong. If you aren't comfortable you won't carry.
I know it's very rare but, some firearms can go off without pulling the trigger even if the safety is on. Firearms are just mechanical devises that can fail. In fact, a 300 I owned was recalled because it was possible that it could have gone off without pulling the trigger if it had one in the chamber. I carried it loaded with the safety on when I was hunting with it because of lots of bears in my area. And just to think all it could have taken was a split second of the muzzle not being controlled properly and someone could have died.
We were trained to carry with an empty chamber with the model 1911 .45 in the Military Police. It is hard to change a habit ingrained in me. It is a disadvantage, but I can live with it.
I am on the side of having an empty chamber on the gun.
Cons:
- slower reaction in the face of danger
- minus 1 round in the capacity of the gun
Pros:
- Significantly lower chance of accidental discharge
I think its worth it, but then again, when that mountain lion decides to ambush me in the night, i could end up regretting my decision. either way..I feel a lot safer with an empty chamber and I am confident in my ability to quickly chamber the gun
+SoldierCyfix what happens when your fending someone off you or your family that has a knife with your left hand?
+SoldierCyfix The best of two worlds: Chambered but with a manual safe on.
Pros:
-As safe as an empty chamber
-Eliminates manual feeding issues (under stress)
-Much quicker than racking the slide
-Plus 1 round vs. an empty chamber
Unless you guys live in war zones the odds of an accidental discharge are a lot higher than getting yourself into a quick draw scenario.
A
Tim Adams if your statistics are correct then why even carry a gun?
Accidental discharges as well as losing the gun to the opponent happen to the best of us, let alone the less trained. Plus, a conflict is not always about shooting the fastest, at all. I just commented on another video about the manual safety on the gun being a good idea for added safety. Same idea: there are drawbacks with either choices, but I'd always prefer safety over top speed, and train hard for muscle memory (including either disengage manual safety or load first round), speed and stress control.
it took you 6 minutes and a math problem to come to the conclusion that chambered takes less time in a gun fight? Revolutionary
FBI states the avg gun fight lasts 3 sec. The FBI also recommends carrying loaded chamber.
I have heard it called as the 3 rule,3 seconds,3 yards,3 shots. It is true,it's not the OK Corral. Now my opinion on chambered and not chambered.
When I bought my first pistol, after over ten years of my real firsts, I bought a Springfield XD .45 ACP I fell in love with it when I first held it in my hand it was a perfect fit. I always carried it not chambered because of the safety. When you grip it you take it off of safety then there's the trigger safety and I didn't trust it. After thinking about having to rack it then aim I have lost time. I bought a Beretta PX4 Storm .40 S&W a couple years later, after researching different brands, I can chamber a round and the safety decocks the gun by turning the firing pin up and out of the way for the hammer to strike it also the trigger moves freely and it's a double action. I like a .45 better myself so I sold my XD ,with the holsters I had for conceal carry,and the light I had to fit it, and I went and bought another Beretta in a .45 ACP another thing is that I have the same function gun in which caliber I choose to carry.
The FBI secured a fisa warrant whose evidence was literally a dossier from 4chan.
Just use the clearing barrel around friendlys.
And the FBI has proven to be a Federal organization which has lost a lot of credibility over the past several years.
If you listen to those clowns you’re a dead man. They aren’t what they used to be. Their training is not as rigorous as it once was.
I carry unchambered and I'm still getting off in under a second just pointing (no sight picture) but if I need it that fast prob don't need to use sights anyway right? For me I just like knowing there's no way it's going off, and I practice my draw more often to make up that fraction of a second. It's also nice to know if some one takes it they prob won't know to rack it first.
+Sckarekrow stop being a douche bag and beating your chest. Use facts and dont attack the person in the long run you're wanting to help. If you're an instructor, be a tad bit more professional.
To all the people saying "Don't carry if you don't have a round chambered" I say this: I'd rather my buddy have an empty chamber than an empty holster.
There is also the added possibility of being in a stressful situation carrying with an empty chamber,and not pulling the the slide back enough, causing a failure to properly feed.
bubbiesdad, I agree. Not only that but it makes a noise when you have a stranger in your room and hears a click!! Happened to me.
That short stroke can kill you, literally.
The sound of a racking slide alone could stop a person approaching. I carry not chambered, however my bedside protection is chambered. I opted for the extra safety step while carrying in public and I except the risk of doing so.
I carry a double action bond arms under and over daily, of course it is chambered. I practice with it , and I believed I was proficient enough with it to use it.
I was mowing my grass on my 0 turn lawnmower, and spotted a snake, while not taking my eyes off the snake still operating the lawnmower in its direction at a speed to not overtake it I tried to draw . In the heat of the moment I un strapped the holster from my belt , then unsnapped the gun from the holster and had the hammer back with a gun and holster in my hand.
My point is a little bit of stress is hard to train for, I did safely kill the snake, but could have hurt myself in the process. I will now practice a draw from the seated position, and practice more.
carry chambered pussy
"if you don't carry with one in the chamber, don't bother carrying at all" is just pretentious bullshit. If you're comfortable to carry with one in the chamber, do so. If your for any reason aren't, don't.
When I qualified to carry on duty we had to draw from a lever 3 retention holster with two separate locking systems, chamber a round and fire at 7 meters in less than 3 seconds.
Everyone in my class had it down to about 2 seconds by the third day of the course.
If you can't beat that with a no retention holster, go practice some more.
Carry anyway you're comfortable with. Sure it might cost you half a second to rack the slide, but the fact that you're carrying at all means you're already better prepared than most.
Daniel Rehn lol I'd rather carry rather than not carry. So chamber ed or not have gun. Saying just don't carry because you don't chamber is the dumbest argument I've heard.
Daniel Rehn so when you get jumped and stabbed or ball batted or shot in your racking arm/shoulder/hand you'll be double screwed on your empty chamber , Range Boy.
You have to be able to shoot with one arm down from injury, action or incapacitation
Adam, are you telling that you are so weak and incapable that you can rack a firearm one handed? Like fuck, I can rack most shotguns and rifles one handed lol
For a civilian, it seems if you're jumped by an attacker from "6 to 8 feet" who is instantly lethal, that's a situational awareness problem, not a chambered gun problem. First line of defense is to not let dangerous folks inside your perimeter, and if they are, leave. I advocate for responsible folks to own and carry guns, chambered or not, depending on situation, gear, training, experience, and comfort. Belittling those who carry "Israeli style" (named after elite forces, who carried condition 3 on cold chambers) is offensive and condescending and not helpful to the gun community. For as many tactical bad ass scenarios where you need that extra 0.5 seconds and freehand to fight, there's dead people and gun owners in jail for an AD/ND situation that could have been prevented if the gun were empty. Empty chamber is a valid legit method of carry, period, as a 100% prevention of an AD/ND (in the hundreds of administrative handlings) versus the 0.00001% chance of needing it and also not having time/opportunity to chamber a round. Perhaps different assessment for cops and military who are out routinely in harms way.
Finally someone sane. We don't live in a warzone. YET. Those who do, those who live near diverse neighborhoods or in them, those might need to think of carrying hot. But if you live in a normal sane area, you are much better off with an empty one not having any risks of accidentally murdering someone or yourself.
The p320 shoots by itself without pulling the trigger. And there are many videos showing guns going off without pulling the trigger. Going by statistics there's a higher chance of danger with one in the chamber than not having one. Occasionally I carry with one in the chamber if im in rougher areas or going to the atm or doing Facebook transactions.
You need to consider the likelihood of having to engage a bad guy and balance the risk and reward. Are you a cop, keep a round chambered. Are you a stay at home mommy with a couple of kids and a gun in her purse, keep it unchambered. Are you that same mommy who just broke down in the bad part of town, make that weapon hot. Are you a dad taking the kids to a soccer game, keep it unchambered. You're that same dad, and you're working at 7-11 behind the counter, keep it loaded. Going to the mall, keep it unchambered, until the nut job shows up..... If you're in a job where you have one on one contact with people who might have a reason to get irate, then keep it chambered, until you leave for the day. If the economy collapses and home break-ins and muggings are commonplace, then by all means keep it loaded. carried a firearm for 10 years and never had to shoot anyone. Gonna go hang out at the bars with a loaded gun - don't drink.
You need to keep it in one condition and train to pull that way. The last thing you want to be thinking as you pull your gun is "did I chamber a round earlier Or did I un chamber it?"
adam zimmermann maybe, to each his own. You're probably a high speed low drag kind of guy who can handle it, with thousands of rounds fired and a couple of weeks on the range every year, might have even spent some time in training classes.. But guys like that are maybe 5% of the gun owners out there. The vast majority of guys might get to the range 6-10 times a year, shoot 500 rounds through their gun and are worried they're wearing it out and are never gonna pull.
There's alot that needs to go into that decision, not just running through that one scenario where the guy is ontop of you in an instant - that's about 30% of the time. For the average person they've got to balance threat level, likelihood of actually ever needing to draw, their reaction time needed, and proficiency. The family of the mom who's little boy just shot her is wishing it would have been in condition 3. At the wallmart on the good side of town I say carry condition 3, condition 1 on the bad side of town. It's something that the individual needs to get comfortable with, they need to know themselves very well. There are folks that shouldn't carry, but they do and end up getting themselves into trouble. Know thy self and balance the risk from there. If you don't know if you've chambered the round, slam another one in there. There are skilled guys who screw up, that cop that was just shot at the range by another cop - they've gotta carry condition 1, so how do you screw up - it's like the guy who does a thousand dry fire repetitions, then on 1001, he forgets he put a magazine in the gun and bang he's got a nd. people do stupid stuff, they need to determine how frequently they do stupid stuff, balance the risk and carry accordingly. Is carrying condition 1 ideal, i believe so, for some people not everyone.
The problem in that situation was the child having access to the firearm not its condition.
I would argue that people with a lower level of training are going to have a tougher time racking a round when they're in a bad situation. They'll be slower and they have a higher chance of user error causing a failure of some sort.
But, my point is that you need to decide how you're comfortable carrying and train that. In a high stress situation you're going to want to know exactly what you're doing. Having your gun in a non consistent state is going to make that difficult since your brain is not going to be functioning like normal. If you are going to carry in condition 3 some of the time you might as well do it all of the time.
When an attacker comes at you is he going to conduct the same interview you just did to determine how and when to attack you? Didn't think so. Secure your weapon at home or on your person based on the realities you deal with. If you have kids, carry in a holster with retention and learn to use it. Never carry in a purse or somewhere where they can get at it. Same goes for home. Your matrix of chambered and un chambered is simply a recipe for pulling an unloaded weapon on a assailant and getting killed. I am 51 and having been carrying since I was 21 and never had to shoot anyone or even pointed my gun at anyone who didn't deserve it. And thank God, never had anything close to a incident.The responsibility of securing your weapon and preventing it from being misused and mishandled is completely independent from the condition of carry and your training. If you don't feel safe carry a weapon ready to be employed against an assailant, you shouldn't be carrying a weapon in the first place.Carry chambered or don't carry at all. IMHO.
That logic is like saying that you should only wear a seat belt based on the conditions you'll be driving in. If you're just going to the grocery store, don't put your seat belt on. If you're going on a windy mountain road with a steep drop off, wear your seat belt. If you're not expecting to get in a crash, don't wear your seat belt. If you are expecting to get in a crash, wear your seat belt.
I always wear my seat belt, regardless of the road conditions or where I'm going, and I buckle my three month old in too. I also always have a round chambered, regardless of where I'm going, because I want the best chance of survival for my wife, my son, and me in a bad situation.
I will never understand the argument "If you're afraid of a ND while carrying with a round in the chamber, then you shouldn't be carrying at all". All people that carry w/o a round in the chamber want is an extra layer of safety. If that works for you and you train that way, then so be it. It's laughable when people get so high & mighty over opinions where there's no real right and wrong.
Train however you carry & always follow the safety rules when handling your firearm. Don't let someone impose their opinion on you as if it is a fact. I personally carry with a round in the chamber, but ill never tell someone who isnt "You're doing it wrong". Do what makes you comfortable & always train! Stay safe!
Well said and thank you. I'm a newbie, female, and thinking of carrying. This made me feel a lot better!
Christen Smith you can train all you want but sometimes you may not be physically able to rack the slide. Chances are you will have enough time, but I've seen videos where someone got robbed off his motorcycle and was killed because the bad guy had a round chambered and the good guy didn't and it costed him his life. If someone has a gun pointed at you, the last thing you want to do is rack the slide.... Especially if the bad guy already has one in the chamber. You set yourself up for such a huge disadvantage. When they have a gun pointed at you, you have to obscure the draw not drawing attention to yourself. Watch any video where conceal carriers had to use their firearm. All carried with a round in the chamber and you would've thought to yourself "wow good thing he had a round in the chamber. Would've been way different if he hadn't" Guns nowadays are so safe there's no way the gun would fire unless the trigger is pulled. If youre that afraid of your gun that you can't trust YOURSELF to be safe enough. Then maybe you should train harder on THAT
Christen Smith I was taught by my grandfather to asses your situation. Sometimes I carry on the chamber, sometimes I don't. It really depends.
Christen Smith yup
if the other guy attacks you and he has a chambered gun out you don't have much chances ether way
I have done both and will continue to do both.
If you only have one hand free, you probably aren't in a great place to draw and fire a weapon. That should have happened before your other arm became useless. Situational awareness is important here. That said, sometimes a verbal discussion can lead to an altercation in closer quarters than ideal and its only takes milliseconds for a punch to be thrown.
Some cases I will carry chambered. I carry unchambered if Im going to be doing a lot of bending and moving, as opposed to just standing and walking. My EDC has no safety other than the trigger. I appendix carry IWB. There is no need to carry chambered in my vehicle. There is no need to have a chambered round at my desk, or standing in the lab. Despite the situations where carrying unchambered is fine, I still practice a draw/chamber as the gun is raised, in one smooth motion. After the gun comes out of the holster, you simply rack the slide at the same time as raising the weapon. By the time its able to even shoot a leg, its chambered.
In public, walking or standing, there is every reason to carry chambered. If it is possible that a stranger could quickly invade my personal space, its going to be chambered.
Theres a time and place for everything, including carrying unchambered.
When I have a violent disagreement with Doc Holiday and Wyatt Earp, I'll make sure it's chambered.
The thing is both of them would have carried their revolvers hammer down on an empty chamber for safety...But if they had Glocks?...Who knows :)
I just prefer to take all the guesswork out of the equation so I walk around, gun drawn, chambered round, pointing at potential threats (little kids and Steeler fans included), finger on the trigger.
Chambered Round = 1.8 secs, Unchambered Round, 2. 77 secs... My way, 0.00 secs. Math wins again. 🐴
Sounds effective. Please have someone video your next trip to the grocery store. I'd like to see it in practice.
***** two guns, one in each hand, spin every few seconds, problem solved.
i drive a tank... safety first...
My biggest fear is being blind sided from behind, overpowered, having my weapon taken from me, and having it used against me. I feel the benefit of chamberless in that situation is he'll get thrown off for a split second for you to pull your chambered backup concealed on your leg
for this situation you should be prepared in hand to hand combat in order to make space to pull your weapon
no disrespect...if you have trained yourself with the israeli type of self defense draw with an unchambered firearm carry, you can present it at 1.77. same as your time with the chambered firearm...anyways to each his own. concealed carry anyways does not always mean you would be doing a draw with any attacker. sometimes it would always be best to asses the situation. its pretty hard to out draw someone who has a presented or drawn firearm.
exactly.. I can chamber and get into place with my ar or BE in about 1.8 on each. What i learned in the idf ( and it makes complete sense ). You draw your weapon and charge making that "scary noise" when you need to show force, the enemy might dis engage at that moment realizing they are no match for you and you wont have to kill someone.
if that enemy shows force... BOOM.
you need to be sure as an operator your gun is charged. 110% always having it chambered can change if lets say.... your wife handles the gun, or a kid pulls the slide since he cant pull the trigger but hes not strong enough to pull all the way back resulting in an un chambered round.
Screw the safety aspect... Its the 110% knowing i have control over this situation that works for me. Either way it doesnt matter. train until your tired then train some more and always keep training. nothing will prepare you for the real deal. it will only make it more comfortable.
i agree, anyways to each his own. just stay safe.
Great, now do it under stress with all kinds of stuff going on, trying to move a family member out of the way, without getting knocked over by a bystander in the worst case scenario, no one gives a damn about your shot timer or other bullshit "Israeli commando" nonsense, they do not have the monopoly on how to carry a firearm, it all comes down to how comfortable you are with carrying a firearm or if your firearm isn't reliable.
If you are carrying an old firearm that has an issue with the rounds going off randomly due to impact, then by all means carry like that, but modern firearms from reliable companies do not have that issue.
Evirthewarrior you're right everyone commenting is thinking they can draw and rack so fast its not about speen its about be able to rack the gun in any situation and that is impossible just like even being able to draw in any situation the threat caould be p on and ou might have the space to get to that gun i say keep it ready to go at all times
B GerK If its extremely hard just to draw the gun, due to the position or situation you are in, imagine trying to rack it to get a round in the chamber... using whatever high speed, cool guy, ninja move, way you rack your slide.
Case for empty chambers: I've talked with other educators who carry in schools. The two biggest concerns are safety AND concealment. A big duty holster with retaining mechanism is not an option in classrooms. Deep concealment is a must and the biggest risk is a student getting a hold of the gun accidentally or on purpose that just seconds ago was on your person. For this reason, they carry with an empty chamber and train appropriately.
Concealed carry beginners, especially firearms newbies, are still safer carrying with an empty chamber than not carrying at all. You could argue that the law should allow us to walk around holding our pistols or revolvers so we don't waste time trying to quick-draw to neutralize the threat(s).
I carry with a round chambered and no manual safety. I don't care how anyone else carries or how they think I should carry my personal defense weapon.
Chambered or un-chambered is largely affected by the model gun you have. Before I retired, my PD’s side arm was a SW 5906. I loved that pistol, I even bought one when I retired. That, I carried loaded, mainly because, it was double action. It had a de-cocking lever that you could use to safely drop the hammer from single action after chambering a round, so you had a double action first shot with a 9 pound trigger pull, much safer then a hot chamber on a gun that is cocked single action and a 3 pound trigger pull. I now work for an armed security agency and we use glock 17’s and I carry cold. Glock claims to have this trigger system that is just as safe as carrying chambered double action. BS. It isn’t. My old PD switched from the 5906’s to glock 17’s and the accidental discharge rate tripled. They had to send the entire department back to the range for re-training after too many accidents happened. I do agree, that the amount of time to chamber a round can cause problems, especially if you are used to carrying hot and forget to chamber. But I’d rather take the chance with the empty chamber then to accidentally shoot someone. I carry my 5906 CC, off duty and that I keep hot.
I believe in simply carrying to your personal comfort level. In a defensive situation, charging a round is only a half second away, and Its the way I practice presenting every time anyway. I don't believe it is unsafe, but I feel more comfortable with an empty chamber. I understand both sides, but for me, I am okay with having one less round, and having a slower draw speed as well so that I will be comfortable with my firearm at all times.
Would you carry a hammer fired cocked and locked?
@@felixandresjc my original comment was made when I was younger and less experienced, to be fair. If I had a 1911 style pistol, then I would absolutely carry cocked and locked. If it’s a double action like my Beretta 92X, I would typically carry it one in the chamber, hammer down, safety off. The Glock has one in the chamber these days.
The biggest danger is inadvertent discharge during your draw. Everyone can successfully draw during firing practice but when faced with an actual emergency there's to big a risk of shooting yourself. That extra second probably won't matter. Remember, most people who carry don't get to the range weekly and may not have enough practice to make the risk worth it. Be safe. If you're in an area where you need to carry a round chambered, find another place to do your shopping.
This is one of the silliest things I have seen.
I'm all for carrying with a round chambered if you train to do so, but I also carry a gun with a thumb safety because I will never trust ANY gun not to go off. I mean, if someone is well well-trained and their finger isn't on the trigger, is it ok for them to paint you with their barrel? Why would they paint themselves all day long while they're carrying without taking precautions? Especially for a Glock or other guns with no safety (For the record, a "trigger safety" or safe-action trigger isn't a safety at all, you just don't pull the trigger if you don't want to fire, like every gun) there are reasons to be worried about carrying with a round chambered and these are VALID concerns. It seems videos like this are oversimplifications of the choice to carry chambered. It's not just inexperience or lack of training that leads people to make a "bad decision" and not carry with a round chambered, as way too many of these videos suggest. I'll give 4 reasons.
1. You can't guarantee that you will be given 1.84 seconds to draw, ie the assailant may be tackling you or shooting you as you try to draw. I don't care how much you train, when you're getting tackled your finger could slip. Not to mention, there is a lot of merit to looking for cover if you're going to be firing at an active shooter or shooters. You may not have 1.84 seconds to stand there and draw before you are shot. I've never been shot, but I can imagine I might let my trigger finger slip if I did get shot as I try to draw. Chambering a round from cover is pretty easy, btw.
2. You can't guarantee that you WON'T be given more than 3 seconds to draw and, thus, have the time to chamber a round. Some people may knowingly choose to take the risk that they might not have time to draw and chamber a round prior to shooting to avoid taking the risk of accidental discharge while carrying/drawing. Frankly, whether you agree or not, that's their choice - it's their femoral artery they're pointing their own gun at all day.
3. Many people are experienced with carrying guns. In fact some may be too "experienced." If you have a 75 year old carrying a firearm because they've done so for years, and they lose their footing, slip, or trip as they draw their gun, then you have a high probability for accidental discharge. Elderly people are not as physically capable as they once were. Almost all of these videos seem to be made with the idea that a fit, young/middle-aged person is carrying a gun. This video doesn't cover elderly gun owners as a point of topic. It would be interesting to hear the DTS view on elderly or partially disabled gun owners carrying.
4. Many people can't or won't get the kind of training they need to be responsible enough to be walking around with a round chambered. For those that can't afford that training, should they be denied their right to bear arms? People should be able to practice drawing without buying rounds, but going through the whole motion involves shooting at the end and people need to be practicing their shooting as well. That gets expensive quick. Are we really going to say that poor people shouldn't have guns? It seems to me that people living in poor areas are at the greatest risk and the reason they take that risk is because they can't afford to move elsewhere, much less shoot 500-1,000 rounds a month or pay for gun training classes. I'd feel safer if such a person didn't keep a round chambered, but we'll only truly know in the moment a problem happens whether it hurts or helps.
I love this reply!!!
It bugs the hell out of me when people act like the way they do things is the best or only way to do it. "If you feel uncomfortable carrying chambered, you probably shouldn't be carrying"... WTF??? If you feel like the gun will never discharge except for when the trigger is squeezed, then let me point my gun at you and your family all day with one chambered!!! How stupid can people be. As far as this video goes, the guy obviously takes more time to shoot and holster his firearm with the "empty chamber". Not because he has to, he simply takes more time squeezing the trigger. Yes it may take a bit more time without a round being already chambered, but taking a bit more time may be just as important. Maybe you didn't realize that there was someone behind the person you're engaging. These people act like a damn buzzer is giving them the feeling of pressure...lol Put your child in the picture, now is your first instinct to engage or get your child to a safe place? In that case does it really matter how long it takes to draw your gun?
I appreciate this video and the comments - ex-military and avid handgun freak and general paranoiac - but I can't help but think that this discussion misses the greater point that MOST self-defense situations with a gun are NOT NOT NOT some sort of quickdraw contest. Okay, you have to add a second if you are carrying without a round in the chamber- if ONE SECOND is literally the difference between life and death then you didn't have a chance to begin with. You got droned or some shit, because most of the time you can defuse a potentially hazardous scenario by just drawing down on someone.
Just took a tactical training class, they also believe in chamber empty. Instructor also stated special Ops train that way as well. There are studies that show in the heat of the moment when you fire your weapon there is alot that happens to your body and your weapon, which includes but is not limited to, not using sights or reset or reloading, So finger out of trigger could also not happen when you want it to. He demonstrated better split times by racking than you did without racking. That being said I carry with one in the chamber.
Hold on criminal, I need to rack the slide really quick. Ok, I did it. Come at me bro!
+Eren Yeager it is called practice--practice and practice---I can draw, chamber and ready to shoot quickly.
Home defense= Not Chambered Concealed carry outside= Chambered
Well put, exactly how I keep my pistols.
yesssir
pretty silly logic what if you have revolver?
+David Curtis Griffin - still pretty silly logic. what is a semi-auto pistol going to do that a revolver can't? (other than hold a few more rounds and eject the spent casing)
but why? what makes that safer than leaving one chambered?
and what is the time when you screw the pooch and malfunction the weapon during the sling shot....
For the sake of my own safety, I carry with an empty chamber.
+USMartyrMachine119 It is a lie, you aren't more safe, but less safe because half of the issues you may need to pull your gun for may require an immediate discharge. Every other danger to a chambered gun is an issue of preparation, training and equipment. Have those squared away and a chambered gun is completely safe.
I honestly prefered my gun chambered. The enemy isnt going to wait for me to rack a round.
I carry a Smith and Wesson M&P Shield 9mm, I have a CCW, Admittedly, I need more training which is in works...I've been 100% anti guns my entire life until I decided to put my ignorance, fears, biases, and probably stupidity behind me this year and learn about handguns, I am crazy about them but still not entirely comfortable.
With that being said, I am very afraid of "Accidental Discharge", a mechanical failure in my weapon which would accidentally discharge the chambered round. I do have a thumb safety but I'm told that could fail too. Are my fears warranted for my M&P Shield 9mm or is it safe to carry chambered?
I also realize in a real life crisis, there is no way in hell I'd react calmly by unholstering my weapon, racking the slide, disengaging the safety, and then engaging threat. I'd be dead so I'm not sure what to do. Thanks in advance, any help is appreciated.
If you're not comfortable carrying with a round chambered, then you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun. Guns do NOT just fire by themselves. If you're one of those people who wants to carry without a round in the chamber, then you absolutely NEED to train that way each and every time. If you don't, the fact that you have a gun won't matter, because you WILL be that person who tries to shoot a bad guy with an unloaded weapon. Practice with your firearm, and take it seriously. Carrying a gun is meaningless if you don't know how to use it.
Static Electricity can cause the round to fire. One of the police officers in my town was shot in the knee getting out of his vehicle. This is probably as likely as being hit by lightning. However I guess it does happen.
That being said I completely agree with you Training is the most important way to be safe and confident when planning for defensive shooting no matter how you carry. Many defensive pistols don't have a safety because in the heat of the moment people forget to take their safety off. I would hate to hear about that happening to someone without a round in the chamber. I carry one in the chamber. Because as they say if you aren't always prepared you are never prepared...
Tauruses have been recalled for firing on their own, so yes, it can and does happen
***** I've never heard of that.
www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&ved=0CC0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thefirearmblog.com%2Fblog%2F2013%2F09%2F26%2Fbrazilian-police-recall-98000-taurus-247-ds-pistols%2F&ei=nT7YUqaIH9CFyQGp4IGABA&usg=AFQjCNHaNmdXy1AAw6U7YI_T_1DZhtL2xw&sig2=7bc0W0cTdbYEFnaWTcUoAA&bvm=bv.59568121,d.aWc
Conclusion : You are way too slow
Every accidental discharge had one thing in common, a round in the chamber. There have been plenty of experienced people that have accidents, no one is perfect. Even the most experienced drivers some times cause accidents the same can be said for fire arms. But no one can say what is best for you, and me. And in any case when handling a tool that is intended to take a human life, respect it is the first thing we must do, and second is train, no matter how you carry.
I keep all my firearms loaded but not chambered. To me it's a personal preference. It's takes so little time to chamber a round. If I was ALREADY in a dangerous situation I would carry hot.
Sckarekrow
We both know that makes no sense. YES, they are loaded and if you don't know the difference between loaded and unloaded maybe firearms are not for you.
Sckarekrow
You seem very mature. Turning a SIMPLE debate into a name calling argument. Rather than engage me in an open dialogue and discuss this you chose to throw a temper tantrum on youtube. Wanna be taken seriously? Talk to me like an adult. You wanna argue about loaded vs chambered then be a man; not a pissy teenager who has to talk loud and use insults to get his point across.
+Sckarekrow Every range Ive been on that's ran by marines say load and make ready, or just load. The 'make ready' part referring to chambering a round, so to them and the government it's still considered loaded because there are rounds loaded into the firearm, chambered or not. I think it could be debated either way but when you become hostile for no reason I would say that makes your point seem inept
Sckarekrow
So if someone handed you a firearm with bullets in the magazine but not in the chamber you don't consider that someone handing you a loaded weapon? I can see your point about loaded vs unloaded in a combat environment; but here in the states we are not in an active warzone. Loaded in terms of common sense and legal definition means any rounds in the gun, or in an attached magazine. I seriously don't know why this has to be a debate!? I cannot fathom why your so angry over simple terminology. There is a difference (as I am confident your aware of given your military background) between carrying hot and carrying loaded. A gun is loaded until physically cleared of all ammunition.
+Mongoose Motovlog first time in my life i read loaded but not chambered. What a ninny
Great video man I am with you - proper trigger control and a good holster one can safely carry with a hot weapon.
Those are two of the most important thing to have when carrying brother. A good holster and even better trigger discipline
I'm considering pocket carrying a sig p232 for my first gun (in a pocket holster of course) I've watched videos from instructors before but what I'm getting at is should I be worried about pocket carrying one in the chamber with no safety bec the sig I want doesn't have a safety a reply would be most appreciated I understand keeping my trigger finger off the safety is my biggest safety and to follow the 4 Cardinal gun safety rules I guess I just need reassurance on this again I would appreciate feedback as a new gun owner
Great video can't agree with you more. All these tools who are arguing with you need to pull the design and blueprints for any modern gun and see that they don't just "go off" there are actually reasons they fire. Education and training go a long way in everything we do not just guns, some of these people really need to learn that.
I prefer Chambered, I always treat Firearms as if They are Chambered anyway.
Rick Nethery hichock even mentions that when he puts a fire arm down even if it’s unloaded when he picks it back up even if it’s a second later he treats it as if it’s loaded and checks the chamber this is a habit I will be glad to use and make into an instinctive habit so that way it’s a automatic In my training.
Bottom line is the tenth of a second or however long it takes to rack the slide could mean life or death. I carry a full size 1911 cocked locked ready to rock. Bottom line is training. You could never have enough period. Love the channel
Hmm. Well here is my 2 cents worth on that. As it was once said to me when I first got into the law enforcement firearm and defensive tactics instructor world, "never say never, never say always". Because in a class of 32 people, there is often 1 person who is smarter than you, more experienced than you or just observant. They will make you look like a fool.
When I did a stint away from our training academy to train Iraqis I had the chance to work with a lot of law enforcement from the USA, Britain, former USSR, Swedish, Hong Kong and eastern block countries. We had lots of time to compare notes and collaborate on the lesson plans and techniques. While chatting with my good friend from a former USSR country, he talked about why they "always" (a word what is best left out of a lesson plan) carried their weapons not chambered. Mainly it was to give them more of the universal safety that is often spoken of but not clearly defined. The one thing he said that caught my attention was that it would give the officer more time to decide if he really wanted to shoot the suspect. Since it takes time to cycle the action, that would be more time to think.
Not my cup of tea. I am from the school that I have decided that I need my weapon out and chambered. Firing it is a decision made while the round is chambered and moving the finger to the trigger and squeezing is all that is left to do. However, my questions to him were asked considering a proper holster with trigger guard and level 3 retention as well as safe storage being properly attended to:
How much longer will it take me to cycle the weapon to chamber the round if I am already shot or stabbed in my support arm and cannot use it?
How will I manage to cycle the action if I am already in a close quarter combat situation and the suspect it trying to stick me with an edged weapon, choke me from behind or is on top of me and I have my support arm busy blocking Thor's Hammer style punches?
He said he had not thought about those things. Happily he felt that the points had merit and he was more settled with the lesson plans and demonstrations as were being taught.
Now like I started off in this rant, never say never. Can I envision a time when public and police safety might be better served with the chamber being empty? Yes, when I am forced by circumstances beyond my control which require me to carry without a holster. When might that be? Unexpected need to move from uniform to plain clothes. Carrying a backup weapon in uniform but inside my body armour (see how I spelled that? Canadian) and I am sure there are a bunch of you out there with examples.
My preference, chambered whenever possible.
And yes, in my 34 years as a cop, firearms and defensive tactics and even before I carried a badge as a karate instructor back in the 70's and onward, I did have many occasions where I learned I was not the smartest guy in the room.
For you kind consideration.
it'll take you longer to make that rational judgment call weather or not to deploy and use your weapon
the additional times are because he's moving overall slower on the re holster and hesitating on the trigger pull in the second portion (simulated un chambered)
Double action trigger pistols are very safe even chambered.
Exactly. This is why LEO models are DA only and have decockers. Any other model for those of any hesitancy (who should also reconsider carry in the first place or train until they are confident) can also go for models with DA/SA, external safeties and decockers. Military and law enforcement don't generally have externals because they are trained and in the moment they need to produce that sidearm racking the slide or thumbing the safety becomes a liability.
My decision varies. Sometimes I carry one on the chamber, and sometimes I don't. My grandfather who is a WWII veteran gave me that habit. He told me to its up to me and my current situation in what time should decide on. If I go to my nephews basketball game, most likely I won't have one in the chamber. Now let's say I have to go to a sketchy place. Let's say for a job then most likely I will have my gun chambered. It really depends on what situation you are in.
You take a gun to a kids basketball game? Do you live in Syria?
Robert lol I like your sarcasm. But if I was in Syria I would have an ak. I'm from Ashland ohio. We are comfortable with firearms. Plus it's just an example. It's open carry here in Ashland Ohio.
Robert any more questions?
I have been concealed carrying for better than 15 years, with and without a holster. I have always carried hot!
With only seconds to make a decision, acquiring your target by far and higher priority than remembering to rack a round !
At the end of the day....
Do what you’re comfortable with.
I don't see why you are so worried about your time differences for chambered or unchambered. Your draw time is much too slow! You should have your draw time well under 1 second like .75 or .90. You NEED to change your technique.
If I can't get my draw time under a second, does that mean I cannot defend myself? I used to be a pro-timer guy, until I realized I won't have a buzzer going off if I need to use my defensive firearms. Also, I'm taking all that time I used to put on the range to get faster in an 100% controlled environment to improve my skills within one arms reach and medical arena. Thank you for taking the time to watch my video though.
TheTrainingEvolution
Having a draw under 1 second is not practice, it's technique. If you think getting under 1 second with your technique is going to improve with practice you are wasting valuable time on the range.
But hey, good luck with that and also learning medical skills.
+Andy Peterson Cool let's say it's all technique, like you said. You still have to practice a technique because just by doing a technique, it's not automatic. I'm not going to worry about trying to hit a magic time in a 100% controlled environment. That's like practice saying technique of three gun for getting better at defensive shooting. And thanks, I passed EMT school.
TheTrainingEvolution
How much practice is required to take a radial pulse?....almost none. Once you learn the location (and you can count) that's it, you are able to take a pulse on somebody's wrist/forearm forever. It is so basic and necessary with coming up with the proper treatment for a patient in the field.
You are very narrow minded, stubborn, and your draw technique sucks for self defense. A proper draw is so basic, like taking a pulse, doing one and getting it under 1 second is like chewing your food and swallowing without choking.
If you prefer to make the simple so complicated then that is the course you choose and building upon it will only reap limited results.
+Andy Peterson Here's the deal brother, I don't live on the square range. I want my "draw" to work well within one arms reach. That is why I'm bringing the gun has high as possible so I can get a pectoral index if needed and/or to clear the holster in general. Once you get past all you need is speed, we can have a real conversation.
sig 229. no safety switch. just one hell of a heavy trigger when the hammer is decocked. you can drop it from eye level and it still won't go off.
If someone carries without a round in the chamber, I stop listening to anything else they have to say. Don't carry if you can't carry right.
Devils advocate here.
What if your "racking hand was wounded?
Thanks
My Glock has a 3.5 connector & 6 lb Trigger spring. I still carry with one in chamber. Would you?
what if you only have one hand to use to draw your firearm while fending someone off with the other? How will you rack it then? This is a pointless argument. Unchambered is inferior in every single way. No decent trainer would ever tell you to put yourself at a disadvantage with no safety gained at all.
+Adam Nichols No shit, right? I feel like people who carry on an empty chamber because, "I don't want to shoot myself" are either too inexperienced with their firearms, or just plain incompetent. Especially if they've been carrying a firearm for longer than a year. If you can carry a gun on an empty chamber for more than a year without the trigger being depressed at the end of the day, then why don't you carry on a loaded chamber? You've already proven that you're capable of carrying a firearm without depressing the trigger, and nearly EVERY modern firearm you buy now has drop protection that will nearly guarantee that the gun will NOT discharge, no matter how violently you "drop" it.
I have always carried on a loaded chamber, because I realize the possibility of needing to employ my firearm in a life and death situation with only one hand. If you're on the ground with your face being beat in, are you going to have the capability to draw, rack, and fire in your own defense? Hell no. When it matters, you'll be just as defenseless as if you didn't even have a gun in the first place.
I just don't understand anyone who uses the safety excuse for their empty chamber.
+MistPassiert "nearly every firearm" and "nearly guarantee". So the conclusion is that it isn't safe with any gun? :) Maybe you should not generalize then :)
Beats me how you can say an empty chamber is not safer. There are just more actions that have to coincide by shear luck to make a round go off. So if a chambered round needs the safety off and the trigger pulled, this gives you a certain degree of safety. When you do not chamber a round, there is an additional action to be taken place (and a hard one as well) that makes it even more unlikely. Hence, it's always safer regarding accidents.
I'm talking about not being able to guarantee that the $50 pocket pistol you bought from that pawn shop in downtown that doesn't have a serial number and doesn't appear to have been cleaned or serviced in 30 years won't malfunction while it's bangin' against your junk unsecured in a holster.
When I say nearly every firearm, first, I was referring to firearms with drop safeties mechanically built into them: I mean modern firearms designed for conceal carry. Hammerless, normally striker fired (in the case of Smith and Wesson M&Ps and newer "polymer pistols" as the community refers to them), many without manual safeties. I've seen footage of a glock being dropped from 500' and it didn't discharge the round in the chamber. Carrying your grandfather's 1911 from WWII in the half-cocked position is asking for trouble. You could probably sneeze on that hammer and the round would go off. As with any mechanical device, there are possibilities of failure, as Taurus has proven with their massive recall on thousands of firearms.
I can guarantee that nobody has had an Accidental (Negligent is a completely different story) discharge while carrying a modern firearm in good service condition in a holster designed for that particular firearm that properly secured the firearm (none of those stupid glock trigger guard "shields") with a round in the chamber. If you can prove to me otherwise, please do, I'll admit when I'm wrong.
The argument that an empty chamber is "safer" than a loaded chamber only applies to the consideration of whether the firearm can discharge a live round either intentionally or unintentionally into an unintended target. It does not make the user more safe in the unfortunate case that they are forced into an altercation where in order to defend themselves, they only have the use of one hand. For instance, a physical altercation like George Zimmerman's or a mother or father carrying a child. Carrying a firearm without a round in the chamber may give you peace of mind, until you're forced to draw that firearm with one hand, and it's worth little more to you than a brick would be.
I carry with one in the chamber because I invest in a quality holster that I know will not allow my firearm to discharge without unholstering it. That and I don't want to be a victim of my own paranoia that my gun might mysteriously decide to turn on me and shoot me.
+Adam Nichols Here's my two cents: If someone is close enough to be grappling with me, I'm not drawing my gun. I'm going for my push knife until I can create some distance. Once I have some distance I'll deploy my firearm.
Personally, I carry with a round in the chamber, but I've noticed that some people who concealed carry think their gun is the best tool for any and every situation that might arise. I respectfully disagree.
ComocosonoEWL I really don't care what you think I do not know, but the point I tried to make still remains: not chambering a round is always safer. Let's take a child picking up your unattended gun. You can rant all you want about how one should take more care keeping the gun out of reach, but the fact remains that, if it does happen, the chances of an accident are much smaller without a chambered round.
It's safer, period. :)
you forgot to mention that your other hand might not be available at the moment. What are you going to do drop your baby?
It's amazing to see so many experts in the comments. The only reason I ever carried without a round in the chamber was because I wasn't confident in myself or the reliability of my firearm. I have a feeling the majority of the experts in the comments have the same reasoning even though they deny it
For me it's situational. If I am just at home or around town here where there is not very much threat of violence, I generally carry unchambered. If I am going to an area where there is a higher likelihood for something to happen (I.E. when I had to go to the "bad side of town" while working for the census) I carry with a round chambered.
In my opinion, there are 2 issues with carrying two different ways. First, muscle memory may kick in and you may forget that you have an empty chamber. If you train to rack the slide every time, you might as well always carry empty because you should train with the same draw every time. Second, you never know when the danger will arise. I believe you should always carry in a way that you can draw your weapon and be ready in the fastest way possible.
Consistency is the most important part
You are a tragedy waiting to happen. You live in denial...the number one mistake! As others have pointed out - you have no idea where you are.
Thst video is the biggest joke on the net right now.
What app is that timer doo hicky?
don't know if it was intentional or not but there was definitely a change in the speed that he was going at between the two trials
I noticed that. After he chambered the round he paused and aimed. He didn't do that with the chambered version. Just goes to show he could probably practice carrying non chambered and the time difference would be negligible.
it might take a little bit longer regardless but he definitely skewd it to seem like it is a bigger difference than it is
If it's 3 seconds, chambered or not isn't the debate. Getting under your shirt to access the firearm will add to your time. At least here in Florida. Open carry is not allowed. Your clocking in your time with your firearm holstered and easily accessible.
+1
+Heath Panganiban He said not to worry about the actual averaged numbers, he was more focused on which took longer. Regardless of how you draw or where your clothes are, carrying with a round in the chamber will be faster. That was his point.
How does the delta of the time not matter? I understand empty takes longer, but its 0.9 sec longer. So is 0.9 sec quicker on the draw worth the risk of an accidental discharge during day in day out carry? That is the up to the carrier.
I agree with most, much more likely to have an AD then need that 0.9 sec in a quick-draw gun fight during one's lifetime. Besides, you don't want to be that guy who shot himself in the leg because he had a weapons malfunction.
+DoomBeagle How many rounds can you fire at full speed (which you would be in a self defense situation) can you fire in .9 seconds.... that's how much of a disadvantage you are putting your self in by having to chamber before you can start firing...also if you are having to fend of an attacker with your support hand its gonna take you much much longer to get a round chambered to get your gun into the fight
+DoomBeagle Exactly. People who tirelessly advocate that everyone who owns a gun should carry a round chambered lose sight of this. Moreover, they assume that the time it takes to rack the round will be the difference between life and death. To them, there is no in between. To them, if you carry without one chambered, then you will never be able to use your weapon in self defense. And on top of that, since so many people say that wanting to carry without a round chambered means that you shouldn't carry at all, they seem to imply that carrying a gun without a round chambered will actually put you at some sort of disadvantage in life. Weird arguments.
I have always for over 24 years carry with one in the chamber. I have chosen to because I want to be able to react if I need to without the thought of rack the slide to chamber a round.
+Sckarekrow Your either being sarcastic or a liberal idiot. What children the ones you just made up.
I knew a couple U.S. Army MPs wh told me they were not allowed to carry a chambered round while on duty. Sounds believable and par for the course for the U.S. Army.
+politicalsheepdog That's how the Israelis do it, doesn't make sense to me.
Sckarekrow I was just going off what I've seen, and what my cousins from Israel have told me in the past. They were quite surprised when my brother and me told them that we carry with guns chambered
+politicalsheepdog Same in the Norwegian army. The reason is safety, but the second thing is that its fucking frighting when someone chambers the gun while pointing it at you. Makes you stop and drop in any way possible (if you're sane, that is).
***** The Reason the U.S. Army doesn't chamber a round is because they don't trust their people. As a Sheriff's Deputy, I've been carrying a round in the chamber of my duty Pistol for over 20 years and have had zero accidents. Fifteen of those years was a Glock 17.
That's just because the army doesn't trust their guys. On the Air Force military police side we only carry round in the chamber safety off.
am i the only once that is tracking his time he pulls the trigger slower on the racking the slide thus delaying the time
What the purpose of CCW? If your weapon i not loaded. I bid you Peace.
Great vid...however...the general gun-carrying public runs the gamut, and for every person that's properly trained on how to carry with one in the chamber, there are probably an equal (or greater) number of folks that certainly took the required course for certification, but have no further subsequent training...and unfortunately, that means accidental discharges are bound to happen. So while I think the carrying public OUGHT to have a chambered round...I'd rather most folks not consider it, unless they have the training for it. Just my opinion.
I've trained with the FBI and a major city's SWAT team. If you are uncomfortable with a round in the chamber, those people should leave it home and carry pepper spray. I don't want to be the guy (or my family) catching one when they forgot I was behind the bad guy. If one hasn't the confidence to carry a loaded weapon they are not ready to carry and probably wouldn't drop the hammer anyway. If this sounds harsh it's because this isn't paint ball. This is life-and-death.
I don't agree on that, such an argument is sounds elitist and is the antithesis of the (personal) right to bear arms. Not semi-auto pistols, the avg. person just doesn't get enough training for me to think everyone should keep one in the chamber. Wheel guns are a different matter, but not as many people carry those nowadays.
You can disagree all you like but any individual who doesn't trust one in the chamber will fail if not rigorously trained to draw and chamber. It's not "elitist". Thiss is not some game where "I'm better than you". This is a one shot deal at life and death and if you aren't trained to consider it as such then carry pepper spray and hope they just want your money because no one who doesn't trust one in the chamber is going to instinctively take that shot when a split second matters.
It is a well-known axiom that in a crisis situation you default to your lowest level of training you can perform at under stress. If you have never had to draw weapons and point them at people and hinge on a split second as to whether you fully squeeze the trigger, then you can't possibly relate to what I am telling you any qualified instructor will state.
Never said it was a game sir...but if it makes you feel better, YOU can carry one in the chamber all you like...I just don't feel we should encourage the general carrying public to be packin' cocked and locked.
"I just don't feel we should encourage the general carrying public to be packin' cocked and locked."
It is obvious you have no training under stress nor have you ever been in a situation to understand what a gun being leveled at you feels like. If someone feels uncomfortable with a round in the chamber they need to train until they do, or leave the weapon home. I already know that a split-second matters. You have not grasped that concept yet nor have you ever needed that split-second when trying to chamber a round under an adrenalin dump will turn into tragedy unless highly trained to draw and chamber in one perfectly fluid motion.
Since you have a fear of a round chambered, can you tell me how many people were shot by accident today with a loaded gun either in a holster or as it was drawn from a holster? Can you locate even one story?
.
"Storage" trigger locks are stupid because what's the point? If you're going to take the time to lock up a firearm, why even keep it loaded? If you need it, you've already failed. As far as carrying unchambered, same principle. Threats can present themselves in milliseconds. You won't always have the convenience of chambering. That spec op is full of crap. I guarantee any guys getting dropped into a hot LZ or black zone are cocked and ready to rock prior to boots on the ground. Close quarter combat doesn't allow time for unchambered, safety bullshit. YOU are the safety! Get trained and get some discipline.
Amen brother. I was a Marine and in a lot of close quarter battles, and we ALWAYS were locked and loaded. Every second could cause you your life. But this is not Iraq or Afghanistan. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I personally carry a weapon everywhere I go, and it's always ready to go. But for those without discipline, keep it unloaded for safety. That's why people shoot themselves like Plexico Burress. There is no, oh the gun went off by itself. Nope. You touched that trigger, so be careful and know your limitations. Semper Fidelis...
+rts Being condition 1 with an open holster is different than being condition 1 with an IWB holster. In combat, you're always condition 1 because you are either pointing the weapon away from you at all times (leg holster points pistol away from you, and rifle is always on hand). Combat is a separate scenario in my opinion.
Great demonstration video. I always carry chambered. I see you are rockin' the CrossBreed Super Tuck holster and Magpul cell phone case. Nice choices.
Ok so it adds one second. I'm wondering how often anyone would be in a situation where one second makes a difference. I'm sure if we search we can find one, but how often has any CC person ever actually used the gun in defense? 1% of all ccs? Less/more? Now add to this how often a gun does accidentally discharge or a kid accidentally shoots a friend. Everyone will then say the gun wasn't stored right or the person followed wrong technique. True. But how often is someone accidentally shot vs a real cc defense situation and I suspect the numbers would be alarming. 10:1, more? Any guesses or how we could get the stats to compare? My guess is the risk/reward would steer us to cc unchambered.
In the US there is an approximately 600 deaths per year related to negligent discharge and approximately 15,000 reports of non fatal negligent discharge per year.
On the other side of it, guns are used approximately 100,000 times per year in self defense situations. I could not find stats on deaths in self defense but... Obviously a death does not occur in every scenario. Most of the time the bad guy will run off as soon as he sees your weapon. This information was according to the National Crime Victimization Survey. You may find different sites with different numbers but in every case, a gun is used more often to defend yourself than it is for negligent discharge. And by the way, a round fired by a handgun travels around 950ft/sec (give or take), most attacks happen within 10ft... Looks like every second does count
BoGooSE certainly for those 600 people I guess
Shit happens when you're irresponsible. That's a fact of life for everything, not just guns. I'm not going to change what I do because of what happens to .0000002% of gun owners
BoGooSE I'm on the fence about it. That same percent is about the number of cc that will actually use the gun in any kind of situation.
So most of this is fear. I gotta carry just in case.
So my point is risk reward. The chance that the gun will actually be used vs the chance of negligent discharge.
Then, can you afford the legal defense either way?
Don't get me wrong I understand what you are saying. For me, I trust myself 100% when it comes to firearms. I'm military I get trained so often it's almost ridiculous. If someone else wants to carry a different way than me, go ahead. I'm just not changing how I do things because others disagree or are scared, I'm not.
I'm afraid I could fall asleep while carrying my firearm and have my child aquire my firearm from my person. for now, they can't rack a round, and therefore cannot ever be harmed by it.
This is silly. Educate your child. Don't use the fear of your child getting to your gun, to not carry properly.
Yes, I will educate my 2 year old. I'll let you know how that works out.
+JustTheMessenger4u If your kid is old enough to know to not touch a hot burner twice and you haven't tought them to not touch a gun yet, that's a trainer issue, not a student issue.
That's a poor argument. You tell a child not to touch a stove, they touch it anyway and get burned. You teach a child not to touch a firearm, and they die from it - end of story. There's no touching a loaded firearm twice.
JustTheMessenger4u Trainer issue, not student issue. Stop blaming the student and the lesson. It's your responsibility. Be a man. Be a dad. Do your job.
In the movies, everyone carries condition 3, even if the chamber is loaded.
I'm confused. Doesn't your gun have a safety lever that prevents you from accidentally discharging your chambered round?
Mine does have that and I can definitely simultaneously draw&aim while setting the gun to armed. It's just a reflex movement of my thumb.
+Jeneke R. Some do and some don't. most if not all Glocks don't have a manual safety
+TheRussianPikachu Unless something has changed in the last minute, no Glock comes with an external safety from the factory.
+Blake Ahlers they do in cali
Skidz1818 Really? When did the law change? My G19, purchased in Cali, does not have a manual safety. There are conversion kits that allow one to put a manual safety on a Glock, but they void the warranty.
Lots of hardcore, tac'd out, superhuman, awesome, armchair warriors here... It's true, that split-second may mean life and/or death at a critical time when you need your gun. But is there really documented proof there? Or is this all keyboard theory based on your super-awesome "I'm a badass" weapons handling knowledge? That's a spit second. Okay, let's acknowledge that. Furthermore, a split-second that MAY NEVER HAPPEN in one's entire lifetime. You fail to acknowledge however, the flipside of that. THOUSANDS OF HOURS of daily gun handling, holstering and deholstering, etc thruout a person's lifetime - and it's not by "chance" like an armed encounter. It's an unavoidable "everyone will go thru it" fact. Talk about RISK. Eventually, people will gain confidence in carrying chambered, at least I think so. But instead of belittling them with your superior carrying skills and giant balls of steel, at least encourage them to be fast unchambered, for now. Until they gain confidence that only Adonises like you possess.
+Angel Cruz I don't even carry so take it from a non-tac'd out non-superhuman guy, but if someone is running at you at 10mph, a nice, brisk run, they'll cover 15 feet in the extra second it took whoever to rack the slide. If you have someone fit that is sprinting at you, they'll cover double that, and Usain Bolt would cover 40 ft. I think knowing that most altercations happen at close ranges and how fast things can go down might inspire more confidence in carrying chambered
+Angel Cruz Well said! Thank you. I just don't get it. This is the gun community... let's be positive people! If some of us don't like carrying chambered, why are the, presumably, more confident and more qualified people the ones who are making us feel incompetent and stupid for preferring safety over an extra second? You're 100% correct in your analysis of risk. I will more than likely never need to fire my weapon. I hope I don't have to. But I will continue to carry it with me a lot. The risks of having a round chambered outweigh the risks of having a gun on me without a round chambered. End of story. Plus, it's not that I'm worried about what I'll do to make the gun go off as much as I'm worried about those events or circumstances that I have no idea about right now... I'm scared of the unknown, so I do one thing to prevent the unknown from happening.
+Sckarekrow I'm not seeing the parallel between actually carrying a loaded gun and not being prepared. Chambered/ unchambered, its still loaded. If the ninjas materialize and one is unprepared that is a situational awareness problem, not a "one in the pipe" problem.
It's completely unnecessary to walk around with a chambered pistol for day to day life. I don't buy the whole millisecond could've saved your life scenario. The only exception to this rule would be if you knew you were about to be in imminent danger. So that might apply to law-enforcement, Tony Soprano, military, or a zombie apocalypse. Yes, you could technically train enough for this to be considered safe however subjective and ambiguous it's sure to always remain. Beeeeeeecause it's overkill, illogical, and totally unnecessary.
Digitalbumpin ha ha ha! Killing me with that shit... Studies suggest i'm better off without a pistol than with one not chambered, mmmnoo. My argument sir, is for the mass majority of people that go to the gun range. Seldom, do most practice more than once a month if that, and by most, I mean really most never practice drawing from the hip with a chambered pistol which is exactly what you would need to practice to be adequate and competent at such a daily practice of conceal carry. If your pistols equipped with a safety other than a Trigger Shoe safety, that certainly does change things but, a large majority of people carry Glock's and for that reason I say what I say. Yes it's safe if you actually practice, if you're actually competent, if you're actually invested, but most people I see at the pistol range don't even hold a pistol correctly so they should most certainly not be walking around with a chamber pistol because half of them have a concealed carry license. Guess what they're going to do when they see this video? Theoretically I completely agree with it just not realistically for most conceal carry persons.
Digitalbumpin My other argument against what you said is "human instinct will make you pull the trigger before racking it." If you're not trained enough to control that poor reflex then you shouldn't have one chambered that's my whole argument.. Are you suggesting that (you) can't control that and to rectify poor control you should go ahead and carry a pistol chambered? Shit you're probably going to shoot somebody 3 feet to the side and 15 yards past the person you're pulling the pistol on, if that's the case, maybe you shouldn't carry a pistol at all.
Matt, your silly (and deadly) misconception is that it is only a question of time, it is more about the possibility of that off hand or arm not being available to rack your gun, so the time to rack becomes meaningless if you can't do it, dead already.
Matt this.
so, heres a hypothetical scenario. You're being assaulted and you are fending off the attacker with one hand. The attacker is right on top of you. How will you chamber the gun when you only have one hand? On the ground getting your head bashed in? How will you chamber? Held at gunpoint and have a split second to draw and fire when the attacker is distracted or turns his back? Scenarios wont always play out like you think they will.
How do you chamber a round in an unchambered weapon if one of your arms (weak or strong) is injured do to being hit or injured before you can draw?
If you aren't carrying chambered, don't bother.
Anyone who has young kids and a concealed carry permit should not be carrying chambered. I accept an extra second or two to chamber the round to ensure that in a moment of carelessness one of my kids can't pick-up my gun and kill themselves. If that means I die because I was too slow then I'm okay with that, but under no circumstances could I forgive myself if one of my kids got hurt.
+No Libbies agreed
+No Libbies how would your kids get ahold of your weapon? What kind of action does it have? If it's double first pull and you have a standard trigger then they cannot likely pull the trigger. Strong enough to pull the trigger, strong enough to rack the slide.
So, the first thing you do when you draw the gun is immediately fire the weapon? Because I've always thought youd want to give the bad guy the opertunity to recognize you have a gun and that they should stop there. I dont know about you but i would rather not have to fire my weapon than shoot the person. Im not saying im not prepared to use the weapon, im saying im prepared to let someone else live and avoid the repercussions of killing a human being if just drawing the weapon is enough to stop the threat. So in that situation, it would almost be more advantageous to carry unchambered because that act of chambering the round shows the attacker that you are now ready to fire if they make you. Thats just my opinion i guess. Let people carry their gun the way they feel most comfortable
I would also like to mention that i do carry chambered. But i just find it annoying that you are showing off how quickly you can just pull your gun and start shooting. There are very few REAL LIFE situations were it is acceptable to just start firing the instant you draw your weapon in a self defense situation. Take a class on the legal repercussions of shooting someone even in self defense. The guy in this video has a pretty high chance of being charged with manslaughter due to the fact that he is just going to pull, shoot, ask questions later
There are quite a few scenarios in which firing instantly on the draw would be justifiable.
Not only that, in many states if the shooting occurred in your car or home you would not be charged with manslaughter.
Imagine someone breaks into your house with a gun or knife, or someone mugs you with a gun or knife, or someone is physically attacking you. In those situations you would be justifiable in shooting instantly after drawing.
You are justified in using lethal force if you have reasonable fear for your life. It's the same standard that law enforcement are held to.
Call me. How about when a stranger at 2:30 AM is kneeling on your bed and your partner did not tell you he took the bullet out of the 1st chamber, and that click sounded like a cannon going off, of course, the intruder heard it too. I lived to tell about it, thankfully.
revolver then
Silver Selenide
Silver, I got rid of the idiot, bought A S&W .38 Snub Nose for carry, and 9mm for home. I'm happy and protected. Stay safe.
What about the consistent wear on the firing spring with always having a round chambered or having the hammer cocked continually?
What was your point even about? Safety wise there will not be a problem, and the likelihood of your firing pin spring failing is either from poor care and maintenance or pure negligence of the user.
the 1 sec to chamber the gun is worth it if it means I don't injur myself or my family and I know you said with good training it won't happen but people in the top of there professions make mistakes and die from them sometimes. your acting as though you never make mistakes, like I said the 1 sec it takes to load it is worth it.
What if the criminal injure you within that 1 second? I'd rather pop myself before I let someone else do it lol.
the reason yoru time is slow is because you are untrained. every time you put your weak hand around the pistol grip hesitate then rack the slide....
You missed the point, it is slower period, to not have a round in the barrel.
Now how do you rack the slide if you have to fire from retention?
If you're carrying, I'm on the side of having a round chambered. However, for home defense, I think it should not be, (especially where there are children) simply because you generally would have the weapon stored in a safe or locked up somewhere. If you feel there is a threat for which you'd need to get your weapon at home, the difference in time becomes negligible. The chances that a child might randomly enter the correct combination to a safe are low but it has happened before, and every child nowadays knows what a gun is and how people hold them, based on what they see on TV.
+David N
thats BS. you cant "educate" human nature out of people our prisons are full of educated people.
my dad and his hunting buddys "educated" me, and I was in all the hunter saftey classes in school although I only needed to take the course once, because I like everything about guns, and I still would sneak my dads .357 mag out and "clear" our house when no one was home.
to this day if I get a new hand gun it goes in the bed with me...I just "tell" others that its on "the nightstand" but slowly it makes its way to the gun locker time to buy another one
+David N
exactly use your brain +1 is not the rule but there are exceptions
+David N they are not fearful of guns they are fearful of the freedom those guns represent, "free people" are who "they" are afaid of, no amount of education will fix that...and again I am well trained with firearms im not afraid to go out into our civilized society with an empty chamber...this is not Iraq
+David N it could...could...make a difference but not likely, its way more likely that you will need your seat belt while driving but I never see those kooks with their neck veins popping out over that, you are 100s × more likely to be hit by a drunk driver, than you are in need of a round in the chamber so in the scheme protection of life I find it kinda hypocritical to rage at someone for electing to keep an empty chamber...btw did I
mention that I am P.O.S.T certified?...I thought so
+David N most people...most people...assume that if I dont agree with them it proves that Im "uneducated"
so go back and look at your statistics, "violent crime" does not equal needing use of leathal force, much less needing a chambered round.
so I will up my bet to 1000x more likely you will be in need of a seat belt than I will ever need to chamber a round
I realize this video is a couple of years old, but I will through in my $0.02. Many people (including myself on occasion) carry revolvers, so by this backwards logic, should we then carry our revolvers unloaded and a speed loader in our pocket? Of course not, that would be stupid. Not to mention, you run the risk of short stroking the slide or otherwise having a mis-feed, or any number of other issues in a real life situation when adrenaline is pumping, and your fine motor skills go to hell. Who says that you will have both hands free in order to rack the slide, let alone space and time to do so?
You don't think its a bit more difficult to accidentally discharge a revolver compared to a glock?
Hand guns only get discharged by pulling the trigger, so no. The amount of travel and weight of pull vary considerably among hand guns. If it were not safe to carry a pistol fully loaded, then they would not be manufactured as such and carried by thousands of agencies and militaries.
John Burnett Or, when they get hung on clothing and toggles. So search that on youtube and see how dangerous the accidental discharge can be and how common it is
Common for people who should not be carrying a firearm to begin with. A proper holster covers the trigger completely. Sloppy people hurt themselves everyday by being sloppy or otherwise untrained. An unloaded gun will do you no good and in fact can get you killed. As I mentioned above, there is not always time or room to rack a slide in the real world. The more you read about real life events the more this becomes evident. You are welcome to carry your piece in whatever condition you like, but you should know the score before you bet your life on condition 3.
John Burnett I'm not sure you understand the difference between unloaded and unchambered. The point of the video is to show you how simple and quickly a round can be chambered. Huge difference between unloaded and unchambered.
The speed is important but also having a round chambered gives you more versatile defense options. Like a situation when you are attacked unexpectedly and have to defend yourself in very close quarters or with someone on top of you. It will be a struggle to just draw your weapon racking the slide might be impossible. maybe one of your arms is injured you'll be glad that you already have a round chambered. What you're going to go all tacticool and rack it on your belt? How many seconds will that add to your draw time?
You can't just be in a mind set that you'll recognize the threat in plenty of time to pull your weapon and rack the slide.
our green berets and navey seals have a thumb saftey
+richard barwick false
+Matt Gulker beretta 92 has thumb saftey and sig p226 navey has asaftey also
+richard barwick 226 does not have a "safety" it has a decock lever but no safety. And it's spelled "Navy"
+eric pieper israeli commandos use glock 19 and no round in the chamber
+richard barwick they only carry with an empty chamber when they are NOT expecting resistance...
This maybe true, but how many "regular" ppl even practice quick draw?!? 5%? Its going to take the average person twice as long, if not longer, to draw, and then you have to factor in the Scenario. Even if someone can get the gun out and chamber it then fire in 3-4 seconds, whats the odds of that happening when an attacker is coming at them!?! Too many variables. Its best to just trust the mechanics of the Handgun, and keep it Chambered while concealed. My Glock can be thrown down the street and not discharge. I trust it with my life!
thank you for the common sense. Unchambered carry is flat out stupid.
No, it's not stupid, it's a choice, and a good one if you have little kids who could EVER get to your gun in a moment of carelessness. The odds are if you need to actually pull a concealed weapon to use it, you'll have time to chamber a round. Think of all the mall shootings and the theaters, etc. If anyone would have had a weapon with an empty chamber, they would have had time to chamber a round and kill those fuckers as long as they weren't right next to them when the shooting started. But then again, if that was the case it wouldn't matter whether you had a round chambered, or not.
I dont understand why the hate? Dont carry a gun if you dont carry a round in the chamber? this makes no sense to me. Everyone should have a gun. Everyone should carry it.
There are no accidental discharges; there is only negligence. Neither of my carry guns has a safety, but they do have a long DA trigger. I have to pull the trigger all the way back under moderate load to fire. There's no way you can slip your finger into the guard and fire the weapon unless you mean to. So, yeah, one in the chamber and a DA trigger. Works for me.
Let's not let the access by children cloud the issue. It's a separate discussion. Ditto for negligent discharges, different issue. With that said, I submit that George Zimmerman would be dead today if he carried unchambered. Bottom line truth.
Ray Houthuysen G. Zimmerman ***might be dead (we can only assume the outcome had he not carried chambered)
I disagree its very much part of the discussion. I think the moment it should be chambered should be specified. I have kids and carry unchambered theres certain moments its unnecessary. Depends on where you are, situation you're in etc.. My father had a lot of guns and carried chambered always. We had an incident where my little sister was playing around and somehow a shot went off.
firearms go off on their own all the time. I've seen it in Afghanistan, I've seen it in North Carolina, I've seen it in California.
I'll stick with throwing in a small boundary (having an empty chamber) to guarantee safety.
You can carry how ever you want I'm not going to argue about something that is your choice. But honestly what firearms are you using that just GO OFF on their own!?! I've seen 2 negligent discharges in my entire life, both in Afghan, both user error, not weapon error
You have witnessed a gun fire all on it's own? With no human interaction? On several occasions??
Waitaminute... There must have been a Unicorn sitting next to these weapons, cause I have heard that Unicorns emit a special frequency that cause firearms to discharge on their own. Did you get to pet the Unicorn? I've always wanted to pet a Unicorn.
Russell Tyson The unicorn factor is a bitch, I hate when that happens. LOL good post
Frankie D Lolololololololololol
I carry a round in the chamber. CC class in AZ I was taught how to draw weapon, safe off, and trigger finger along the barrel.
When I turn 21 I will get a concealed carry license. I will probably carry a Glock 26. I saw a thing that goes on the slide to rack the slide quicker. I personally will carry unchambered
Get training first, then have opinions. Opinions without experience (basically everyone on the internet) is stupid. Go through a sim-munition course and come out the other side with a real game plan. You are a blank slate. Find quality and competent trainers that have real world experience (the guy behind the gun counter most likely does not.)
I personally recommend tacticalresponse.com the wife and I took a great 2 day fighting rifle course from them and it was the best 2 days of shooting I have had. I blew away my 13 years of Army experience and condensed what was normally a 1 week shooting package in the Army into 2 days. Great value for the money.
"A thing that goes on the slide" means you are printing like a sombich and also have 1 more thing to snag on your shirt/jacket. Either go with a round or w/o a round on a factory parts weapon. lasers and lights are also cool tech but you also have to train for them. Cool calm and collect you can do anything. Having someone target you, then come after you making you fight or flight will make you resort to however you trained. if you short stroke that gun, there is no round and chances of you creating your own stoppage. Guns with safeties is also another step, going from Glock to 1911 was not an easy task. train train train(w/o bullets in the beginning)