Officer Needs Help (Can You Shoot His Attacker?)
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- Опубликовано: 28 июн 2024
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What should you do if you see a police officer in clear duress? Your first instinct might be to help, but there are several factors to consider before diving headlong into a violent encounter. In this short informational video, U.S. Concealed Carry Association Director of Content Kevin Michalowski (himself a law enforcement officer) discusses the potential pitfalls of engaging a violent perpetrator.
00:00 Kevin outlines a scenario in which a lone police officer is fighting - and losing to - a deranged attacker.
02:43 Unable to access the officer’s gun, the bad guy grabs her expanding baton instead and flicks it open to rain blows down on the stunned and bloodied officer. What are your options?
03:34 Would calling 911 be a good option to save this cop’s life?
04:05 What could happen if you jump into the fight and try to tackle the attacker?
05:28 Should you draw your gun and issue commands if you see an officer in obvious peril?
06:00 Can shooting the attacker without a verbal warning land you in trouble? What factors should you consider before you engage?
07:19 What will you do after stopping the threat? Help is likely on the way, but you still might be in immediate danger from other criminals or even the crowd of onlookers.
08:08 What should you do when police backup finally arrives on the scene?
#uscca #concealedcarry #selfdefense
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I was in a situation similar to this once. It was about 11:30pm, and I was pulling up to a red light next to a train station parking lot. I looked over to see two individuals assaulting a transit officer who was on the ground. Without a second thought, I acted immediately. I sped into the lot, exited my truck, drew my firearm, and loudly said "On the ground or get shot! Now!" Both assailants put their hands up, and got on the ground. Luckily the officer was cognitive enough to cuff one of them, and radio in for backup. When local police arrived on scene, I placed my weapon on the hood of my truck, put my hands up, and stepped back from the weapon. After about 3 minutes I was released from handcuffs and thanked for helping. The transit officer credited me with saving his life.
Sadly this is not always the case, you got lucky
And that is why you keep on moving along. No way am I going to be handcuffed by some shaky Barney Fife because I helped one of his bros. You are very lucky you weren’t shot.
@@norrisnoggs2218 Of course he's going to be handcuffed, the arriving officers have no idea what's going on. Sounds like to me once the arriving officers heard the story from the subject and the officer he got released.
Great job,thank you sir,you are a Patriot!
@@Scail17 " Of course he's going to be handcuffed, the arriving officers have no idea what's going on." Yep. Sounds about right. Cops have no idea what's going on so everyone get put on the ground. Does that sound reasonable to you or like cops exerting their power for the simple reason "they don't know what's going on"? Should they just handcuff every person they interact with (including each other) until they find out what's going on?
As a cop:
Someone is punching me in the head while going for my gun, I'm alone, unable to stop them myself and you shoot the attacker in my defense, even if you are charged I will stand by your side in court through the entire process.
Not if your dept says nope, threatens you or your retirement, just like the rest you will do whatever the paycheck calls for. Heard dozens say that's BS then when it happened, they did exactly what I expected, every flipping time. You are going to do whats best for your family every single time, and thats keep your paycheck....
@@jsauerii wow how many times have you gone to jail for helping a cop ?
@@jsauerii most unlikely scenario! No police captain would ever not allow the officer to stand for you .
Does standing by mean helping out with legal bills and loss of income while in civil and criminal courts?
@@robertmintz63 Police Captain is NOT in charge, their insurance carrier, unions, lawyers, mayor, etc, etc are. As a cop you work for another, many others disctate what you will or wont do. They are going to tell you what you will and won't do.
Happened not too far from me here in AZ. Guy had a state trooper down beating his head on the pavement on the side of the road. Passing armed citizen stopped, tried to warn the guy off but he wouldn't give so he shot him. State Police gave him an award.
Did the police ask the hero "How much you had to drink tonight? Why do I smell alcohol in your car? I smell marijuana! Open the door and step out! Want us to break your window and pull you out? Got any weapons or needles in the car? Want me to call the K-9 unit?" That happens a lot around here. The police are just fishing and looking to get you under their physical control regardless of your guilt or innocence. I've been jerked out and thrown on the ground for no reason.
I remember that one
@@jimmypea2207 Correct. Let the cop defend himself.
@@jimmypea2207 You know police are individuals right? Not a hive mind cult
as they should
It's depressing, how utter perfection is demanded of the good guys, while every excuse and allowance is given to the bad guys.
...
nobody is allowing the bad guys, and nobody is asking for perfection of the good guys. if you actually stopped watching fox news or newsmax and get the politic tribal cogwebs out of your head for once you might see that cops are corrupt, and you really shouldn't be doing something as stupid as saving a cop when they are getting overpowered.
Because good guys have higher standards put to them than bad guys. If we lower the standards for good guys that's how we get people that dip into being the bad guys.
I will never step in to help any cop and definitely won't shoot someone to defend them. After the hero John Hurley took down a shooter who had just gunned down a cop while the other cops cowered nearby and hid then they ran up and shot Hurley dead without warning after he took down the gunman who killed the officer.
lol thats right Don... the bad guys need all the extras bc there bogus but yeah good ppl are expected superhuman or above always
Certainly from a legal standpoint, it’s best to never leave the house. But if I saw someone about to lose their life, I would do the right thing and deal with the consequences later. Wouldn’t be able to live with myself if I didn’t.
Truest measure in that or any circumstance, can I sleep tonight, can I live with that? Knowing that answer might be the toughest question in humanity. Glad it isn't an issue for some, though, I couldn't leave someone to get pummeled.
If you saw a pos cop about to shoot an innocent man, you would turn the other way. All you have done with your "bravery" is prove that you're a boot licker.
Other channels says to stay out legal trouble and safe is to mind your own business if you are mot part of the situation. Other EDC civilians and cops dont know if you are a GG or BG. You are not in uniform as law enforcement.
@@zmanphx If you tackle the bad guy and subdue him, I'm pretty sure the crowd who watched this whole thing without helping would know you're a good guy...
@@epickett63 willing to bet your life on assumptions that everyone who witnesses sees it from the beginning . You also assume you are tackling a guy who is not as big or strong as you.
As a retired Texas police officer, I had an incident where my partner and I were attempting to take a homeless guy into custody for burglarizing a home. The guy fought both of us and he was fighting for his freedom. We then found ourselves fight for our lives. My partner was struck hard and out of commission. And that was him and I now, we fought for awhile. He attempted to take my gun from my holster as I was attempting to retain it. I struck him several times with the butt of my baton with not effect to him. After several minutes of fighting; several good Samaritans, jumped in to assist me and one identified himself as Border Patrol. I had never been so happy to see so many good people assist my partner and I. My back officers arrive shortly after that and the guy was taken into custody. My partner and I were transported to the hospital with minor injuries but we were alive. So please, don't hesitate to help. We have families and loved ones to go home to at the end our shift.
No i will never help you because i help a officer in phoenix arizona after that my life its been hell i pay for my wrong decision and my kids too so nope
First, even though I don't live in Texas, let me thank you for all you do. That being said, know that I would be one to jump in and help. If there hadn't been a crowd, I may have fired my weapon. If I were to have done so, and had put the threat down with no one else shot, would I have potentially been charged with anything?
@@Vg41136 Good point. What exactly happened? If you care to share.
@@johnbarryterry he wouldn't have had to arrest anyone if those criminals weren't breaking this thing called the law which clearly you don't obey.
I wouldn't either. No immunity, and quite frankly police are a threat to the constitution. Enforcing unconstitutional gun laws, covid mandates, serving red flag warrants, committing civil asset forfeiture, and so on. No, I wouldn't help anymore. You have qualified immunity, I don't. You can legally carry in all 50 states, your "brothers in arms" would take me to the ground if I dared to posses a loaded firearm in commiefornia, hawaii, ill, mass, dw, nj, ny, etc. Your brothers in arms serve red flag warrants that violate the 5th and 6th amendments, so does civil asset forfeiture. So no, I wouldn't help. Eventually the Second Amendment will be employed for the purpose it was intended for and police will have to decide between their paychecks or the constitution. I've taken an oath to preserve and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign AND DOMESTIC and I will uphold that Oath, So help me GOD.
I have been in several situations where I had assisted officer's. The only thing I was ever told not to do was to never touch the cops gun, but I also did that once...just to hand it back to the officer. I have assisted in restraining subjects on several occasions. Yes, you can help but be very very aware and stand down immediately afterwards.
i live in a bad neighborhood one morning i came out of my home to this exact situation where a cop was fighting with a suspect and the suspect was trying to get the cops gun i did not hesitate to ask the cop if he needed help in which he responded yes help so i instantly ran over to him not armed and i proceeded to pry the hand of the suspect off the gun and belt helped the cop get him on his stomach and we both just sat on him till helped arrived. Turns out the dude was high on meth and thats why he was so strong the police chief and many other cops came to my door and thanked me for helping and said normally citizens wouldnt even bat an eye at that situation i have seen one guy die in this neighborhood already i wont have another shot especially a police officer in the end they all thanked me and really appriciated the help and i did it all cause thats what you should do as a good person with a good heart you should never ever ignore a situation in life cause you never know what you might be able to do to prevent something bad from happening just by speaking up or stepping in and being like hey whats going on here
As a retired 33 year police officer I have been that police officer twice in my career. The first incident was in a public park and a retired Navy Corpsman stopped to help. he face kicked the aggressor and then beat him into submission. The second incident was on the side of a major freeway and the good samaritan shot the aggressor wounding him enough so that he stopped
trying to take my gun. No charges were filed in either case against the good samaritans. Incidentally, the second incident involved a 29-year-old female as the good samaritan. I am now 75-year-old retired guy and my fighting days are behind me so my options are to do nothing, which isn't going to happen, call the dispatcher, when seconds count the police are only minutes away, or take immediate action with a gun in hand which is what I will do unhesitatingly. Stay safe and keep your powder dry.
I'm with you on this one.
I am going to shoot the perp to save the police officer.
Damn the consequences 😕
Thank you kindly for all the years of service sir!!
Thank you for protecting us.
I hope your retirement days will go forever in peace.
:)
Here in Denver a couple months ago, a crazy guy went out with the intention to kill police. He shot one, and then he was shot by someone who was concealed carrying. That person was trying to help the police officer.
Backup showed up, and shot the good Samaritan dead.
I think what happened was, the good Samaritan was securing the rifle of the shooter went back up got there, and so they thought he was the shooter.
Still... Makes me question if I would really try to help. Denver PD investigated themselves and quickly found nothing wrong with how they handled the situation, didn't apologize.
What a sad state of affairs when you need to ensure your own legal liabilities to help an officer being attacked, or any other human being. The lawless literally have more rights than those who abide
Fr man
Yeah
Why do you think so many murders, robberies and theivery happen on a daily, mostly cause out law system is a mess that favors the lawless, and was built more or less by said lawless individuals that partake in such on a daily, simply because they've gone to school for law (lawyers), rather than in school to defend it (police and in some cases lawyers though most of the time Lawyers are there to prevent the guilty and clearly guilty from being sentenced)
The cops don’t deserve our help, I’d like to see them do more than pull a trigger for a citizen once
There's a lot of truth to what Bibby says. But additionally, it is important to remember the history of the lawless exploiting legal loopholes to legalize their behavior, such as provoking situations to get the person they want to murder to draw first, putting food in their pockets to lure unbranded horses away from their owners so they can claim they appeared to be wild, etc. Many of these laws try to prevent the lawless from exploiting the law. Even other lawless people get very frustrated if they are the only ones in trouble when the other party knows exactly what they meant to do.
In this case,* some of it is sympathy for the lawless at the expense of the lawful. But some of it too is if you were invited to a murderer's home without any alibi and they shot you as you were trying to escape, they could lie and say you burglarized them. You can't defend yourself because you are dead, and nobody knows enough to prove beyond the shadow of a reasonable doubt that you weren't burglarizing his place because nobody else knew.
*correction, in the case of home invasion, not this case. Just came from a video about home invasion shooting in the back.
One thing I learned early in school was, if you see a crime, disaster or accident of any kind taking place, call the proper authorities immedietly. It does not matter how many people see it, do not expect them to make the call for you, because they might think the exact same thing and thus nobody makes the call.
You see something going down, call the proper authorities first, only then move in.
Yes, it's "the right thing to do" to call police first before engaging. But that kind of mindset, as was stated in the video, could be the difference in the officer being killed as well as many others. Because it may take minutes for other officers to arrive. It only takes seconds for the situation to go from bad to catastrophic. It also only takes seconds to jump in and help. Which in this situation is much more helpful than spending time making a phone call, rather than using that time to actually be helpful. It's the officer's job to keep us safe. But who's job is it to keep them safe? It should be everyone's job to keep everyone safe. Not just officers. They have the legal authority to do the killing. Leave that to them. For us, we just need to do enough to help them do their job effectively with less threat to human life
As a probationary FF in NYC, in 1981 I saved an older Transit Cop who was wrestling (standing) with a suspect with a knife. The crowd was watching, but no one would help. When the officer pulled the suspect towards him, I moved in low, grabbed both feet and pulled the suspect's feet into the air. He was suspended between us, and dropped the knife. There was almost no time to think things through, the way this video presented. A good show.
In my law enforcement career I was assisted many times by civilians. On three of these occasions their intervention, without a doubt, prevented me having to resort to deadly force. I am eternally grateful to anyone that assist any LEO in need.
Yeah,better a civilian take a life over you taking one. Pffttttt 🤡
How many people's lives did you ruin over victimless offenses?
@@MrJedi5150 How is your response relevant? I understand that you are easily triggered by hard to digest topics that call your worldview into question but that doesn't mean everyone who brings them up is a bad person or a criminal.
I don't have to have a criminal record to recognize the immoral behavior of police. I don't even have to have any family or friends who have had run ins with the law to recognize the immoral behavior of police.
If you're jumping to the "if you don't support cops then you must be a convict" speal, then you likely have little to offer any discussion on the topic. Please prove me wrong, its always good to hear what the indoctrinated have to say about their captors
@@Backwoodsmachinist
Inbredmachinist more likely. Butthurt much?
@@Backwoodsmachinist funny how you call him indoctrinated when you literally accused someone who you don’t know of ruining peoples lives. Sounds pretty indoctrinated to me
When I took my conceal carry class years ago the instructor made a comment that has always stuck with me. Before you decide to use deadly force to help another ask yourself if you are willing to go to jail for them.
The difference is you know that it is a good guy (gal) in danger, so you have much more information than two unknown actors.
@@skelthouser2730 just because they’re LE means they’re good guys now?
@@CallMeUbba Well I hope they treat you like the "bad guy" when they encounter you, also.
@@skelthouser2730 they almost always do. Even when I called them because 8 looters threatened me with a firearm while they were breaking into my neighbors shop.
@@skelthouser2730 mind you, this is LAPD we’re talking about and I’m a business owner not a peaceful protestor looting and burning down buildings while calling cops names and calling for their deaths so I am a bad guy in LA’s eyes
I tried breaking up a fight once because the two dudes were arguing and pushing very close to family. Just the mere presence of me entering triggered two more people allied with one of the parties who thought I was stepping in for the opposing side. Luckily, they weren’t totally drunk and cooler heads prevailed. An officer who showed up at the scene treated me no different than the two arguing. After the fact he said “Look, what you did was a good thing. But don’t do that again. If you accidentally bumped into one of these guys too hard and they went down I’d be taking you away.”
That was 15 years ago and huge learning moment for me.
As cruel as this sounds, in this scenario as outlined, you’re setting yourself up for failure. There’s just too many opportunities to fail and not enough outs to succeed.
It’s not your responsibility to protect a police officer. According to Supreme Court precedence, they have no duty to intervene in a dangerous scenario albeit by the definition of the job they frequently do.
But they are legally protected and, at times, to a fault that allows bad behavior to persist. It just is what it is.
My firearm is for myself and my loved ones. Not anyone else. Not property. Or money. Or a stranger. It’s for imminent personal or shared danger. The exception would be, of course, if you lived in a state with laws that shielded civilians from prosecution or civil suit for intervening on behalf of an endangered officer. I certainly don’t live in one of those states.
Agreed. Hardest part is making sure your bullet doesn't pass through and risk others.
hollow-point 9mm seems to be a good choice for this.
Hollow points, brosef.
22lr; powerful enough to kill, but not strong enough to pass through. Going to get a Sig Sauer P-322 for my first real gun; my first gun, in general, was a Gamo P-25 pellet pistol.
the best advice my dad ever gave me was no good deed goes unpunished.
Is he by any chance something of a scientist himself?
Thank You. Said that so I don't have to!
Same goes for what I learned in the Army...Never Volunteer!
Yeah, but the good guys are supposed to look out for fellow brothers and sisters who are good guys. Granted, if the dude is built like Iron Mike Tyson in his prime, and all you got is a pocketful of lint, getting your own a## kicked is not going to help matters so using some street smarts will be required.
@@bretburt7317 unless you wanna be made an example 😂
In Arizona, it is legal to use deadly force when another person is in imminent danger of serious injury or death. We had this scenario happen 2 years ago and the civilian shooter was hailed a hero for saving the trooper's life. It is also legal in Az to shoot an arsonist; they are specifically mentioned in the statute. We have some pretty good laws here.
Land of the free
Hope you guys get your voting laws cleaned up too.
@@terry_willis Working on it....
I love Arizona. Thank you for the comment.
That was two years ago. Will it still work in a woke society?
I honestly don't think I would do anything. It's sad that it comes to that but the system is always stacked against you. I really think I would only shoot to save my family or myself.
I have to agree with you unfortunately.
Sadly nobody can really blame you. The scenario described here sounds remarkably clear-cut, so I’d possibly intervene but then do I have my children with me at the time? That’s a factor for me.
It really is sad how our society has devolved to where this is even a discussion; should you help another human being. 😢
I would but you are defintly right
Even if you defend your family or yourself you can end up in prison or sued
@@user-ip9ru1ca1t I know. But I'd rather save my family's lives and be in jail than have some pathetic criminal kill them.
17 December 2022 - Thank you for your outstanding detailed explanation. You spoke clearly, without repetition, and covered the questions I had and then some.
As a retired 35 year Officer I appreciate the refresher, been retired 10years. I carry and realize I'm an old man and not the physical terror I once was. No physical actions anymore its simply shoot or don't shoot.
Thank you for your career protecting us Vince, and I hope you enjoying your retirement.
@@scott3734 Thank you. Its hard watching society collapsing around us.Thank God I'm in a very conservative enclave in southwestern Arizona now. I feel very safe here.
@Laseranon What a foul person you are.
@@vince1638 As a man growing up in Southern California, I really can't wait to move to a place like AZ. It gets tiresome seeing the same felons getting arrested and released over and over again here. Catch n release has done wonders for the local homeless population, not to mention skyrocketing cost of living.
@@vince1638
I retired as an officer last May with 37 and a half years. Yes, at 66 I am not on swat anymore or have nearly as much physical ability.
I would likely take this guy out either with my always carried handgun or at least tackle him and hope for the best. No way I am going to let him get another blow on the officer. I suspect that you would do the same. The only way that we don’t shoot is if the crowd is too close.
I've said this for most of my life. "The moment you threaten to take someone's life, you've immediately forfeited your own."
Regardless of consequences and what others would think of me in a situation like that where I pull the trigger I wouldn't be able to live with myself if I had not saved someone's life by having to take another's.
I have a feeling that sounds like what shanks said.
Well did you really save a life if you took one?
Well said,. There are moments in life you have to be ready to die, too truly live . Paul says it is a sin knowing the right thing to do and failing to do it , this guilt is the thing that separates of from God and why we pray for forgiveness
@@stevenwier1783 the life taken was 99.9% that of someone who eventually try and kill some one else. So yes take him out!
@@richardanderson6184 so someone having a mental episode deserves death? Must be american culture im missing out on haha
Every situation is unique. There is no right or wrong answer except for the decision made in the given scenario. It's not complicated. The three factors should be almost intuitive. If not, you shouldn't be carrying. Overthinking it can be as dangerous as the alternative. It ALL comes down to training. Part of that is when you are carrying, go through scenarios in your mind. What are the funnel points, where is your cover, where are threats most likely to come from, are you prepared to act at that given time. Our biggest threat is our own complacency. IF you are going to carry be ready.
The first thing to consider is whether or not you're capable of helping in a meaningful way. But if you're already considering joining in, then there's a good chance you have the capacity to defend yourself and the officer. If you have a weapon to use, it would be pretty ideal to use if you're unsure of the attacker's mindset. The tackle I believe would be the best solution for being helpful and not having to worry about legal repercussions. It gives the officer enough time to get back to their feet and back in charge of the situation to use their firearm or restraints. The first thing would be to try and disarm the attacker or at very least disable the weapon from the attacker. Making the weapon no longer capable of further harm. If the officer is already hurt, then it would mean you should do whatever would be needed to reestablish control of the situation. Any break in the fight should be enough for the officer to get to a safer position for further action and now giving the attacker a disadvantage of 2v1 rather than an overwhelming 1v1. If it would be enough to get the officer out of immediate danger, everyone involved should do something to restrain the attacker. Because then there's less of a chance of the attacker being able to further harm anyone. Now if the attacker had succeeded in getting the officer's gun, then it's a different story. It would almost certainly be a suicide mission without having a gun of your own. But in any event, taking the focus off the officer so they can regain control of the situation would be the best route of action. I believe in the equal and opposite reaction when dealing with someone who is unruly. Only use as much force as necessary to get an advantage so it minimizes risk to yourself and everyone else involved. And in my opinion it would be shameful to watch this play out and NOT do anything to keep it from escalating. With a crowd just standing around watching, and the crowd can obviously see that the officer is being overpowered. It doesn't make sense that nobody would act to help defend. Because they would want someone to help if they were being attacked. You just have to be willing to put yourself in the other person's shoes for a change instead of only thinking about yourself. "Pain is temporary, glory is forever."
It's very sad how many negative consequences you can get for saving someone's life.
Our legal system is so screwed up that you can be put in jail for legitimately defending yourself or another.
This is how we get more people senselessly killed and how criminals are increasingly emboldened to continue to comity crimes.
Just having to think about the repercussions wastes valuable time and leads to hesitation that can mean someone getting hurt or killed.
When I first heard this scenario, I figured I wouldn't think twice. Order the man to back off or get shot, right? Failure to back off would lead to me ensuring a good shot and taking it.
But, my very next thought was that I'd probably be accused of behaving recklessly and be imprisoned, or just face a very expensive legal battle, which I can't afford.
At that point, no one else would know I was even armed in the scenario. It would be easy to just be another bystander and let other police come and save the day.
I hate that feeling that I would possibly do nothing and let a police officer continue to get beaten and possibly killed.
But, that's the reality of our legal system. The good people end up fearing the law more than criminals.
It really is very sad that, as you said, good people end up fearing the law more than criminals do. Our legal system is a frickin' joke. It's never about law. It's about plea bargains, back room handshakes, and quid pro quo...NEVER about justice.
I would still do what's right as I imagine you would. Consequences be damned, I'm not allowing someone to be beaten to death because of possible legal consequences. That being said when you do intervene you better be certain that you are helping the good guy and not accidentally the bad guy as is possible in a split second decision with minimal information.
@@soujrnr Law and justice are entirely different things.
The vast majority of laws are unjust in the first place.
If I were armed I'd just take his leg out and let him lay there. No need to kill him. Let the police that arrive as back up for that. Oh and if get the hell out of there before the ice cream melted
@@otismore8920 it's not that simple, most attackers would not stop. In the heat of the moment they likely would not even feel it. You clearly do not understand how these things unfold, respectfully I suggest you watch some videos of people defending themselves. I genuinely believe it will surprise you on just how many rounds it can take to drop an attacker.
I know a man who intervened when he saw another man literally dragging a woman out of a bar by her hair, caveman style. After the fight, the woman sided with the boyfriend and the "hero" spent a year in a county jail. Think before you act. The advice here is very sound.
Rule 1: NEVER get involved in domestic disputes!
Don't intervene in domestic spats, and never ever get in domestic spats. Well if your a hermit then there's no issue.
Just walk away.... Just walk away.
Yea in a bar how do you know it's a domestic dispute ? Easier said than done. So then what you let some chick get abducted from a bar because it might be her boyfriend ? That's definitely not better. The problem is that police are quick as hell to lock up everybody but the bad guy in a whole lot of situations.
@@correctpolitically4784 No offense time is valuable and precious which is dearly valued to thine self hereunto. Walk on face to the sun and wind to the back. NFGiven
Very interesting life choices from the woman. Hope she never leaves him so other people won't have to put up with that
Interesting scenario and quite difficult to make a wise decision in a blink of an eye under stressful situation like this one. The good lesson to learn from this scenario is to get yourself prepare mentally/physically and practice a lot. Thanks for sharing. It was very educational.
There was a very similar situation that took place here in Orlando just a few years ago between an armed "wanted" murderer and a decorated Female Lieutenant Sheriff's Deputy, at a Walmart close to my home at the time. I usually would stop at this Walmart after completing my third shift as a "uniformed" armed Security Supervisor, yet this morning, I opted to go straight home. The criminal ("savage") shot this Deputy NINE TIMES, SEVEN of which were AFTER she had hit the ground (I literally heard the shots from my livingroom sofa that morning, had no clue that I was hearing this Officer's Life being taken).AND, he even had enough time to flee the scene which started a MASSIVE manhunt until he was finally caught, IN THE SAME NEIGHBORHOOD HE AND THIS DEPUTY BOTH GREW UP IN (yes, they knew each other, he slaughtered her like she was a stranger)!
As in the scenario given here, if I was there that fateful morning, I might have even saved her Life where NO ONE ELSE EVEN TRIED. So, HELL YEAH, I'm finding "cover," with good "isolation," and I'M FIRING!!! NO QUESTION!!! And, let the chips fall where they may because, AS A FORMER LEO/MOS MYSELF, with NYPD, THERE'S NO WAY IN HELL, I COULD/WOULD just WALK AWAY, muchless sleep at night, or look at myself in the mirror everyday, knowing I did nothing, OR EVEN JUST NOT ENOUGH, and this Officer DIED because my "failure to act."
RIP OCSO Lt. Deborah Clayton, thank for your service, "End Of Watch."
@Rio Graul. That’s a gross exaggeration and you know it. It’s disgusting to hear anyone sayCops get what they deserve 90% of the time. Maybe I’ll have opportunity to walk by as you get what you deserve too.
I would have to agree with you, "Sharp"... A TOTALLY DISGUSTING comment left by you, "Rio"... Don't get me wrong, there are some "BAD cops" out there, but that's only 1% of the Law Enforcement population, sir... The news is always eager to report stories of those "BAD cops," and their actions, or "unfortunate mistakes" made by Officers who had to make a harsh decision in VERY limited time, in case you forgot, THEY ARE HUMAN, TOO... But, rarely, RARELY, the GOOD COPS doing GOOD things, and who actually DO "PROTECT," and uplift their communities... Those "BAD Officers" WILL hopefully face whatever justice their crimes, or mistakes, may carry... And, hopefully, there are lessons Learned to improve for all L.E.Os/MOS... But, to say ALL cops deserve what they get, when, in fact, they may be doing THE RIGHT THINGS, ACCORDING TO THE LAW and THE JOB THEIR HAVE UNDERTAKEN, is a "FOOL'S STATEMENT"... Thank you for pointing out to US GOOD OFFICERS which one YOU are... If you ARE in Law Enforcement, sir, you should resign with that attitude, forthwith... Good day, sir.
It truly is a shame that your ordinary law abiding citizen has to have all of this going through their mind when deciding to help someone in danger.
@Jason Shoots There's no adult who has never violated a single law. Anyone who studies the law knows this.
THis is all common sense laid out perfectly...
this was made way overly complex
Never thought about the whole needles and diseases part, because the tackle or kick to the side/head would've been my first option. Well explained!
Same, Super Godzilla.
They could also have a knife or a hand full of buddies in the crowd.
In that situation, take a page from gangbanging.
"They had friends but I had more friends"
Just... you know... beat their a**es legally lol
I have not expected to lashing out from the crowd, my tunnel vision kicked in
That was my first thought too! To risky to draw with the cop being pinned under the attacker in a crowd. A kick to the head while they're are distracted would have been the first thing I went for. Lol
I would probably kick them just before giving them a command last resort I would shoot if they got back up with baton in hand
Damn, you went with the full on PCP perp scenario. I live in WA state, while it is a blue state, firearm rules/property and human protective rules are strong...for now. It makes me sick that in many areas eliminating this threat with deadly force would leave you open to arrest or lawsuit. If there is any risk of serious injury, shoot first and ask questions later. Just leave it that simple.
I I’m live in near Seattle and it is pretty lax but I think that will change
Some excellent points. A well rounded analysis of the potential problems.
I know in my County, the Sherrif will definitely have my back for coming to aid one of his deputies. The only question is the moment that backup initially arrives at the scene and sorts things out.
It doesn't matter what your sherrif says or does. It is not his decision. The District Attorney can prosecute you. So can the state AG. A federal prosecutor can even go after you for infringing the civil rights of the criminal. Police officers do not decide if you'll be prosecuted.
Don't forget that there's also a civil lawsuit potential.
You must live in Polk County
@@davidb9323 Ole Sheriff Grady Judd is a top notch officer!
@@stevenstehling The Sheriff may not have a say in whether you're prosecuted or not, but you can bet he and the deputy you saved will both have something to say in court that's in your favor.
Will they have the same attitude if you shoot someone in defense of yourself ?
I have been in a deadly force encounter, everything this ten minutes video lays out rushed through my mind in less than 2 seconds yet I clearly understood every single word and possible outcome of that situation. When time starts moving normally again is when a defender tends to make mistakes. Most especially with talking too much. The adrenaline dump is like nothing most can imagine. You feel every possible emotion all at once for several minutes and it sucks. De escalate at all cost, but if you need to get physical, go all the way or not at all. Half ass will definitely be your demise.
I really like this presentation within such a short time frame. Cheers from Texas.
That's funny.
I was always taught that you only use enough Force to stop the threat, no more no less.
I guess you and I were brought up with different values.
@@kenkneram4819 at what point did I ever say anything to the contrary of shooting to stop the threat sir?
@@kenkneram4819 That is the legal requirement. You go ahead and stick to it. I'll do what I need to do to stop the threat and worry about how much or how little through my attorney. If you're considering the amount of force to use in the moment, how do you expect people to believe you thought it was a "life or death" situation? If my life, or my family's lives are in danger, I'm not worried about appropriate levels of force. I'm worried about stopping the threat.
I was not in a shooting confrontation but I came about as close as can. A woman blocked my car with hers and got out of her car with a weapon and started approaching my car while yelling I was following her. I wasn't. As this happened, I picked the bumper of my car as the limit. Once she passed the front bumper of my car (I was sitting in the Driver's seat) I was going to shoot her. She stopped just short of the bumper. Time seemed to slow as she approached and my mind was racing. Going through all the possible outcomes, the tremendous cost shooting would impose on myself and my family. I was trapped, I could not flee. I was terrified and completely committed to shooting this woman when she got too close. She and I were very fortunate she didn't.
@@Carnyx_1 damn glad you didn't have to go there. You did experience the adrenaline dump though, and that sucks. Thinking about it though, in your vehicle, you have a 6000 pound bullet. That's why you are legally allowed to shoot someone that is trying to run over you or anyone else. Lethal force includes a litany of objects, not just guns. Even if a small person was threatened by a much larger and physically fit person, that can also constitute the use of deadly force. A car, a big dude, a rock, a butter knife, even a pencil, can all be classified under use of deadly force if the intent of the actor is to cause significant bodily harm or death.
Glad to know that you had the best possible outcome in that situation.
Cheers from Texas.
Tough choices. I appreciate the well articulated things to consider in such scenario. Thank you
The job changed the last few years before I retired. It seemed more likely people would stand there with their phones hoping for a viral video of me getting my ass kicked and when things were peacefully de-escalated (as they almost always were) they'd delete the video because they didn't want to get involved.
This is very much a personal moral choice. I’m a former cop myself. I know of no officer who would not be eternally thankful for being saved from death of serious bodily injury by an armed citizen. But you are entering a legal mess that will be long and expensive. The question is what can you live with? This would actually be a great force-on-force training video, Kevin. Train the way you’ll fight because you will fight the way you train. You won’t have time to think it through when it hits the fan. You’ll be on muscle memory for the most part. Do it in training so you’ve “been there” already. Decide now, up front. Then train to that personal decision.
Would you be able to walk away knowing you could have saved someone and ignored it for legal mess, or would you have been there when someone needed you most to help and save a life? I know it would bother me if I did nothing.
I wouldn't risk my life or livelihood. I didnt take an oath to protect and serve....
@@src3360 that’s why no one will remember your name!
If it's a big expensive legal mess then our judicial system has failed us.
This is why you need the USCCA 🤣🤣🤣
A huge thing to consider is are you willing to Enter weeks, months, or years of court dates, possibly a few days in jail until they make a decision to bring you up on charges for the shooting, it's not a one and done decision. You're in for a world of stress good or bad if you shoot
@@BamaChad-W4CHD Definitely not mildly inconvenient, Could cost you your life as you know it in a corrupt police hating area, But I know I don't live in such an area and I'll have support coming to a cops aid, So I very well would take that risk, If I were in downtown Detroit, new york, California, etc I would not take that risk, I will not risk having a corrupt liberal prosecution taking me up on charges for protecting an officer. Thankfully in my area that is not an issue and I personally know a vast majority of the officers I would ever come across so not only do they mean more to me than just some guy in a uniform as I have more in-depth relationships with a lot of them from business but I also know I have the backing to make that call based on my morals.
@@BamaChad-W4CHD in the mean times spicy reporter could enhance your experience and makes you lose jobs, your family turn, community think badly of you, your kids get bullied. Well thats indeed mild.
So you would let somebody die? Remember, if this criminal would do this to a police officer, he would never hesitate to do it to you or your family.
Not in Arizona. This happened a couple years ago. The Good Samaritan didn’t spend any time in jail. In fact, the DPS gave him an award.
Listen to the ASP podcast. First episode. 😉
This is not necessarily true. If it was a clear case of preventing a criminal from murdering a police officer, there likely will be less "inconveniences" than you realize.
Excellent, well articulated presentation Kevin. This one video demonstrates the need for superior firearm training before you decide to Pack Heat.
Next to protecting my family with my Concealed Carry, I’m there to protect any officer in need. It’s a two way street, if I expect an officer to be there for me in my time of need, I feel obligated to assist in theirs.
Excellent analysis. One additional thought: if I intervened on behalf of the injured cop, whether with my firearm or empty-handed, I'd immediately start surveying the surrounding crowd for additional threats. Chances are there's at least one or two idiots in the crowd who were pulling for the criminal and would love to blindside you to take you out of the fight.
So true Stephan, Unfortunately. Only thing is, you don't want to be standing around holding your gun in your hand. What if the cop on the ground has a partner that just comes out of the store after you put the attacker down or other officers arrive on the sceen? I would recommend holstering it and concealing it immediately. You might even have an accomplice yelling at the other responding cops that you shot the cop on the ground if he or she didn't get up.
You go ahead and do just that, you'll be a great target for the other officers. 😀
I think you've misunderstood the point of my comment. I said surveying - as in keeping a very watchful eye on them in case another threat emerges. I never said anything about waving a gun around or threatening other people.
@@stephenbesch5331 You don't have to "wave" the gun around. Officers coming to help another officer that just got assaulted will usually shoot anyone they see holding a gun, (or just think they see one), first and ask questions later. Look up a story in Colorado, there was already a similar incident, an officer was shot by a crook, then another man shot and killed the crook the responding officers arrived, saw the man, then shot and killed him. The DA said the officers wouldn't be charged because they responded appropriately, so the family of the "good guy with a gun" has to sue the city in civil court. That's not the only one, an armed man tried to rob a night club in Michigan, (this was 2 years ago), the security guard shot & killed the robber, (mind you the guard had on a shirt with the word "SECURITY" on it), but when the police entered the club, they saw the guard and shot him dead, (even as the crowd yelled, "No don't shoot him"), it was over and done before they finished saying it.
@@djs12007 Show me anywhere I said you shouldn't holster your gun. I said keep an eye on the crowd - that's all I said. If you want to create straw man argument and debate with yourself, you're certainly welcome to, but you'll have to mischaracterize my statements in order to do so.
An incident like this may well come down to the DA, if he decides to prosecute you or not. In one county you might get a medal. But in the next county you might spend all of your life savings trying to defend multiple charges for assault with a deadly weapon, manslaughter etc.
I would never help a police officer I let them get what they deserve since there not obligated to help save your life thanks to the supreme court’s and now you can’t sue the police when they violate your rights 🤷🏾♂️
@@nwrlingomingo1618 Well then, I’m glad you got it all figured out, kid. I wonder if you’ll feel the same way when SHTF and law and order cease to exist. I hope your baby killing role models don’t eat you.
@@nwrlingomingo1618 They're not required to lay down their life in defense of yours, thats not their job.
And you can no longer sue the individual officer for what they do on duty, you sue the department.
You seem to think these people are meant to be infallible knight errants of the community when in reality theyre just regular people who's job it is to enforce laws.
@@secktur8279 my name is Dan Hughes. After watching multiple views of the Uvalde,tx debacle and hearing a Florida police officer saying in a deposition that he considered his life to be more important than the civilians he's supposed to 'protect and serve ' regardless of the circumstances, so be it. I will not help any police officer in any capacity other than a dot inspection because, just like them, I do NOT have a duty to act. Why would anyone help an officer who considers himself/herself so superior in morals that they, in turn, look upon people in general as nothing more than "us versus them?" Beware what you ask for.
And, no, I have not had bad police encounters.
@@ashontahuddleston6663 You're right, neither you nor the OP have a duty to help anyone. Doesnt mean it isnt the right thing to do. This isnt war, they arent your enemy, theyre Americans just like you. Im not surprised that officer said he values his life more than running in blind into an active shooter situation. Im sure he had his reasons. But just because he decided he didnt want to risk dying doesnt mean you have to throw away right and wrong and damn the next officer you see in danger because "its not your duty."
Its like I said before, these people arent heros. They arent justicars. Theyre regular people who have a job to do. Does that job offer the opportunity to be a hero? Yes. Is every officer obliged to take that opportunity when it arises? Absolutely not.
I have been in this situation a few times and although I was never armed, each time I put myself in danger to help. Afterwards the horror of all the possible outcomes come to mind. I swear that I must stop doing this stuff but I never know what I will do. I didn't have time to think. So it is a great mental exercise to think scenarios through, maybe it will help program your subconscious to do the right thing. At the end of the day you fall back on your programming. interesting thought provoking video
Why is this man so good at telling stories I can see it so visually
It’s a shame we even need to think about this. I’d want to help the officer in distress, would be my gut reaction.
Allegedly she’s a criminal. The cop could be the instigator! You really don’t know.
What ashame is you value the life of someone not in uniform so little that even if the cop was a bully cop violating someone's rights you just shoot them, and when you found out you were wrong their family wouldn't even get an apology.... You need to seek out a psychiatrist for yourself
My gut reaction would be to help the officer. If I get hurt or in legal trouble for doing so then that's fine by me. I'm fully prepared for the consequences of my actions. If it means doing the right thing then I'll take it with pride.
@@eddiekorkis doesn't give the pos the right to kill her.
@@rockwellrhodes7703 well it's clear you are a coward who doesn't care about doing the right thing if it means you might get in trouble or hurt. I'm not. I'm a man and I'll have no problem doing what it's right regardless of the consequences. Fact is my chances of getting shot by the cops for helping a officer out is slim and fact is I'm not a idiot. Right after I pull the trigger and shoot the pos criminal that was going to kill the officer my gun is going back in the holster and I'm using my belt to secure the hands of that worthless criminal regardless of that worthless criminal moving and breathing or not. By the time back up gets in my gun will be put away. Not to mention officers give these things called verbal warnings before they open fire. Yeah chances are I'll be arrested and taken off to booking but fact is I won't spend much time in booking before being released with all charges dropped for saving the life of a officer which is completely legal.
This situation happened to me when I was a police cadet. I was walking out of a store after completing my shopping and I saw an officer in mortal combat with a person twice his size. The bad guy was going for his gun. I jumped into the front seat of the patrol car, identified myself and gave our location. My last words were “I’m jumping in send help.” I then proceeded to jump onto the back of the patrol car and neutralize the bad guys hand that was going for the gun. I can’t tell you the time from when I made the radio call to when a multitude of police from multiple agencies showed up, but the officer and I survived. I received a thank you letter from the chief of police. When these events happen you don’t have time to think…you just act.
" ... you just act ... " but ONLY if you've made the decision ahead of time and PREPARE for the situation .
@@chuckintexas exactly! This is exactly why I feel I didn’t waste time as a police explorer and cadet.
@@chuckintexas he was a cadet lol they literally learn everything that they can before going to the Academy. It's like high school preparing you for college (that's if they actually did prepare students)
@@ytsn_THE_OG per usual, you paint broad strokes when detailed strokes are necessary. Most of us started at 18 y/o as Cadets. 16 y/o to 18 y/o as Explorers. I can’t think of anyone in my Cadet class that did not simultaneously go to college. It is true that most majored in Criminal Justice or Criminology, but others majored in Psychology and other areas. Personally, I majored in Accounting, went on to earn an MBA in Finance and eventually a Ph.D in Business Administration. I wouldn’t be making snide and offensive comments in an area that you know virtually nothing about. Frankly, I suspect your experience with police officers comes from the back seat of a patrol car!
Train, train, and then train some more. All that matters is who is more prepared. Not who is bigger, not who has the better gun. All that matters is training, and preparation. Bless you and your partner for your service
you are awesome at this. i was captivated the entire time. thank you for the advice
We're happy to help, Kurtis! Thanks for watching and supporting!
Thank you this is a a true reminder of gun safety and I'm glade you are here to teach us
It's a shame that theres so many parameters around protecting someone else's life.
It's sad but when you think about it needed
The key point here is the bloody crowd cheering on, and not actually intervening. If you are armed you still need to be aware what is beyond the target, otherwise it's rush in screaming "HELP ME!", hopefully jolting some others into action to assist pinning the other guy down.
we live in a world where public opinion is more important than protecting the innocent and prosecuting the guilty.
@@CalvScout yes. What people don't realize is democracy is not mob mentality. Democracy is a guaranteed system to empower the individual against all threats, including the mob. You can not have rule by the people if the minority can be coerced by the majority.
It make it so the preferred method would be to walk away and let the cop deal with his fate.
“You need to think about this stuff well before you are presented with such a situation.”
Yep. With great humility: “We don’t rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training.”
No good deed goes unpunished, never forget it. If you want to risk at least do it for yourself.
In today's America, the attacker who is shot becomes the victim and the person who defends himself becomes the villain and winds up in jail.
Yep.
well, you can't imagine what happens in my country...
We allowed the democrats to win.
@@MuzixMaker I'm STILL shaking my head over that.. and the sick part is.. a LOT of gun owners vote Dumocrat! Makes NO freeking sense!
Move to a State where the good guy's are adjudicated !
There is far more to CCW than just packing heat. This is excellent training. I am a retired LEO of over thirty years
The sole reason why I recommend training even in constitutional carry states. Still get reamed for it as anti American 🤦♂️🤷♂️
CCW is to defend me. If the license issuers wanted me defending others, they'd give me a badge and take respondeat superior liability for my actions.
@@brucewayne5140 ....the why do you have a hypocritical name? Batman saved people... but your comment reveals that you are a coward.
@@HappyBuddhaBoyd Actually Batman put people in danger by not stopping the serious threats. One of the games has the scenario Lois was killed by Joker which sent Superman in dictator mode. Several villains returned often harming or killing many in large plots.
Thank you for your service.. Ex-military folks hear this from civilians that were assisted... I'd like to pass it on to Law Enforcement .
This was a great informative video. Thank you.
Awesome video thanks for the info you gave
I went shooting recently and reminded myself how easily I could miss the intended target. Anyone who hasn't fired their gun in the last month should consider that they may be overestimating their accuracy. Also, until it happens most people would have no idea if their accuracy suffers under stress. The range doesn't simulate that well.
Well said, friend. I recently told the range master where I practice: "I'm really good and consistent at putting a tight group of shots on a target at 7 yards. With TWO conditions: 1. The target has to be standing perfectly still. 2. The target isn't shooting back at me or trying to kill me in some other way."
@Chris G me to. It’s a must
Exactly we should let a thug kill as many as he wants because our actions may not be accurate. In fact the officer shouldn't even bother with the thug to start with, because his actions may cause someone to get hurt. This is why people walk passed a woman being raped, because criticism of their actions are more important to them than anyone's life.
@@joracer1 what the hell are you talking about? All I am saying is not to overestimate your accuracy with a gun. You still help, but consider that you may not be accurate and don't take a shot that has an equal chance of hitting the cop. If you haven't been practicing, you aren't likely to know your own limits.
@@michaellowe3665 my post was sarcastic, but In Reality you have less that 1sec to move, no time to think there, you either do it or walk away you've already made the decision its either in you or not. If anyone thought of all the legality, the harm you could cause to an innocent person,, or law suits. That you could loose everything noone would ever do anything. Point is noone would ever know until it happens to them. And I know there's been men that walked away from a woman being raped, why is the question.
I am a 66 year old retired police officer with 40 years experience. I also have had and right now am recovering from a third spinal surgery limiting my physical agility. I'm not going to get into details but.... the officers life would be saved.
You sound like me only I am 68.
That’s what you think, real life you will be going for a fourth surgery
U sound like me & im only 53...😁🤦♂️
Thank you for your service David & get better soon!
Your service will never be forgotten
That target isolation is what makes the .38spl worth keeping in service besides being accurate and functionally reliable, maybe not power reliable but that's the trade off.
Terrific advice Thank You!!!! 💙
I’ve never been in any scenario remotely close to this, but I cannot imagine a situation where I’d stand and do nothing as anyone is taking blunt force trauma to the head from an attacker showing no signs of stopping. These are the difficult choices we face when we take on the responsibility of carrying a firearm. Speaking for myself, I’m going to defend the officer swiftly and decisively. Encountering a helpless officer may be one of the only situations where I draw my weapon for a non friend or family member.
In the State I currently live in I wouldn't hesitate to help a cop. If I lived in a State like California I'm not sure.
@@NANA-lq5md same. I’m in Ohio, and I wouldn’t have a concern. If I lived in California or some of the states in the northeast, I’d be acting with a high probability of legal trouble.
I'm a US Navy veteran in Spartanburg County , South Carolina . Sheriff Chuck Wright is very Pro 2A . I graduated the USAF MP Academy in Lackland AFB and have the Naval Education Code for Security and Military Policeman . My training and experience would lead me to engage the attacking suspect with any level of force I felt necessary at the moment , including lethal force . But that's in my area . In many jurisdictions I wouldn't feel like I would be safe from criminal prosecution by intervening . I just don't go to those places anyhow .
@@victorwaddell6530 so in short you agree with me.
@@NANA-lq5md Yes Sir .
Great advice! This is something I've given a lot of thought to. I learned early in life, started military service 2 weeks after my 18th birthday, that you need to make the decision on how you would assist long before you ever put your hand on your weapon. I was also taught that you need to think about your reactions long before you are ever in position where you might need to help. These things cannot be a spur of the moment idea if you hope to make the safest, most correct contribution to protecting the lives of those in need. Everything you mentioned here is what I go over in my head again and again in the hopes that it will be 2nd nature if I ever find my services in need.
A little different scenario, but to the point I made about the frame of mind before reaching for your weapon--2 days after new years even 2021, someone started trying to kick my front door in at 4 am. I was on the sofa watching tv and my wife was standing in the doorway of the bedroom. The moment I realized what was going on, I told my wife to grab my gun that was less than a foot from her. I knew as soon as I asked for the gun, while it was still 12 feet a way from me, that I was going to shoot whoever came through that door. My wife, being the incredible pistol instructor and quite proficient with rifles, she next grabbed our AR and took up position with a clear shot to the door. The only reason that man is still alive today is because the door held until the cops arrived...38 minutes later! To my point, though, I was going to shoot him. Not possibly. Not maybe. Not probably. His well being would have been forfeit had he come in. On top of that, the 911 operator gave me his blessing, telling me, as he put it, "Do not put your guns down, and do whatever it takes to protect your family. It's going to be awhile before anyone can get to you."
I maintain my membership in the USCCA because of the common sense teachings and instruction like is found in this video. I feel like every responsible gun owner should think about these things often, as well as study the legalities of using guns in various circumstances you might find yourself in.
40 minute police response 😮
@@ethanconnell2096 in their defense, I live in a large, very rural area, so there is little need for there to be lots of officers/sheriff's running around late at night. On this night, the sheriff was on the opposite side of the county finishing up a prior call. Since the county is huge, he was going to be awhile. As for the local police, I'm in unincorporated area, so their jurisdiction ended just 1 mile from my house. Even so, he was on the other side of town finishing up a prior call. He did sit at the edge of jurisdiction in case he needed to come. That point of need would have been if the idiot had been able to get through my door. Of course at that time the "protect" part of the mission would have simply been a recovery mission for the dead guy in my foyer. I would have probably ask them to clean up the blood since he wouldn't have bled out had law enforcement come quicker. But the "long time" was laid out by the 911 operator as I was on the phone, and I think learning that my wife and I both had taken up arms and a position from which to fire location to fire should the door have failed to hold, made him feel better for our safety. It seems like he told me it be a minimum of 20-30 minutes for LEOs to arrive. It was also nice to know that the cop on the phone basically gave me his blessing to eliminate the threat by 'doing whatever it takes to protect me and my family.'
But you are right! 40 minutes to respond to an attempted home invasion is a bit extreme. I realized that day that it would make more sense to have officers/deputies on call during the night that could be activated in such cases. I know at least 2 homes within 4 miles of my house where LEOs live. It seems like it would also make sense to allow police to enter unincorporated areas in emergencies like this. Had the door not held, at least 1 person was going to the that, possibly 2. It seems like the paperwork for leaving incorporated jurisdiction would be easier to fill out that homicide paperwork (understanding that the word "homicide" only refers to a human killing a human, and does not denote a crime, even prisoners being plot to death in prisons have the cause of death listed as homicide).
To the point I made earlier, having the guns in hand that night removed a ton of stress. But this serves as a perfect example of why we need to be able to keep guns and large capacity magazines in the hands of those people needing them. I would have had a nervous breakdown if I didn't have loaded and reliable firearms in the home. Yes, it's the LEOs responsibility to keep us safe. But they can't be everywhere at once. For that reason, responsible gun owners need to be allowed to carry & I carry on.
Also in their defense, I've had to be pulled out of my home 4 times now with medical issues and the cops got there way before ambulance did. One time I fell and the deputy was there in less than 3!! That was super close. Hopefully as the community grows they will be able to procure here officers/deputies. Thankfully I won't be here to see it. As of 10 a.m, the final paperwork went through and my home is sold.
(Edited for spelling and auto-incorrections made by auto-correct)
@@desertrat7634 "Yes, it's the LEOs responsibility to keep us safe."
No, it is not According to multiple rulings by the Supreme Court no law enforcement officer or agency has any duty or obligation to protect any individual, ever. However, in most states, individuals are required to assist, aid or even "come to the rescue" of any LEO in need IF POSSIBLE.
What kind of door did you have? (I'm not being a smart allec) but to hold up for 38 minutes..
Great and informative video for a legal conseal/carry pernit holder like myself.
There’s so many variables that would make this decision more difficult for some people more than others!
Sad state we are in. When you have fear the authority's while trying to save a life.
Facts
Partially true. It's not really sad though. The incoming back up is coming in with close to zero idea of what happened or is happening other than a fellow officer being attacked. Also, they don't know you from the bad guy, so they will treat you both the same by default as a matter of safety and security. You simply have to keep that reality in mind at all times. In that regard, yes, fear the authority. Their one and only goal is to provide backup and life saving assistance to the downed officer at that moment. The details will sort themselves out after. Nothing personal.
@@melsop54 Much more fear of the authorities other than the officers rolling in, thats a no brainer.. The real fear is being charged and thrown in prison, which is likely what the OP was talking about. No offense, but use your head because its woke 2022 not the 50's
@@melsop54 I also don't know if the cop was being the bad guy so sorry I'm going home or if I'm feeling froggy and don't feel the need to be a hero I'm popping homeboy and taking off the hell with a police report the officer you save would be the same one putting you in cuffs
Try being a cop. Literally everything he said in this video is going through a cop's mind every second he's/she's in a difficult situation. So I don't really wanna hear the whinners out there who are questioning whether to get involved in a deadly force scenario - or the advice from the narrator of this video. You have to be able to do what's right and say, "Damn the consequences." If we didn't have cops willing to accept that, we would have been done for as a country a long time ago. So if you're a civilian CCW holder and you're nervous of the outcomes of using your weapon; well welcome to the club! So is every US cop in 2020 and beyond. Spare me your worries about whether your actions will be deemed lawful by some leftist DA. Officers who worry about that crap are officers who are likely to be killed in the line of duty. At least as a civilian, you have the nice option of opting out. The police do not have that option unless they wish to be fired.
Retired AF SP and 19 years with the Navy as a civilian cop. I'm going in. Telling the officer I am there to help. Then take what actions will be safe for me and the officer. But, when I see an officer in trouble and being beaten. I'm all in.
Yep. Former Army MP and retired Firefighter. Same for me.
That is great for you to feel that way but some Police 🚔 don't because of some unknown reason so let them do their own battles because some Cops don't like the Second Amendment applying to all law abiding citizens 😉
@@MichaelWilliams-nu6lv Doesn't matter what some of them think. Do the right thing, always. At least I do. You do you.
See this is something that wasn't considered, there are a lot of people who are going into law enforcement, are in, or used to be in law enforcement who would see this as something they absolutely must jump into. I personally don't care that it's an officer, I wouldn't be able to sleep if I just let someone get beaten into the pavement knowing I could stop it.
@@Osprey1994 Sheepdog! Can't say as I thought any different, couldn't live with that.
I already know my response to a situation like this, I would jump in to help the cop. I've been in 2 situations where altercations were transpiring in a grocery store parking lot. Neither were this extreme and neither ended in violence, but both times I jumped in to help with minimal to no hesitation. Both involved women being harassed by men. It's actually kind of surprising how quickly you can assess a situation and make a decision when you can tell something is wrong and adrenalin kicks in.
The first was a car full of men (probably early 20s) with their windows down and they were slowly following a woman walking through the parking lot, yelling and catcalling at her. All it took was me walking over to her, giving them a look and walking with her for them to drive away.
The second was a group of 4 guys calling at and following a woman to her car as she was leaving the store. I could tell by their tone and her body language that she didn't know them and was scared. I put myself between her and the guys and demanded they leave. The woman kept walking while the guys told me to mind my own business. When she got in her car I continued into the store. They followed me around inside the store for a few minutes from a distance. I'm not sure if they were trying to find an opportunity or if they were just trying to scare me. But after a few minutes they left and I didn't see them again.
I know everyone will have different instincts in situations like these, but I'm glad I have the instinct to fight when it's needed.
....how do you know the cop is the "good guy" in this scenario....?
How do you know he's even an actual cop, and not an Imposter trying to harm people?
Excellent video. Thank you
I really like this scenario explanation. This channel should make more scenario stories to help ppl know the options and consequences ahead of time so the decision making process can be faster
Agreed
I'm not in the business of helping someone who is just going to be "following orders" when they come to carry me off to the death camps for not supporting brandon.
@thelastword In a case like this, you, as a citizen, have a duty to help this officer. She just wants to go home, after her shift, doing her job. Do you know that she is one of the few, that just blab the words of the Oath?
I can separate the jack booted thugs from the good police, by the way they approach my door. If you are coming to my door, to violate my God given, and Constitutionally protected, rights, we are in a state of war. And, I will respond as such.
I am no threat to anyone, unless threatened. Then, I am a wolverine.
They do have a large amount of scenario based training on the Protector Academy, it requires a uscca membership but for example the video series The proving ground is entirely scenario based training. They're not going to give out the best stuff on the free RUclips channel, if you're really serious about the concealed carry lifestyle (because it is in fact our way of life)what you invest in training is priceless, especially if you find a uscca certified instructor in your area to get in person training and an extra set of eyes. And when it comes to consequences and decision making, they have whole videos in that same training program dedicated to justify the use of force the extent of allowable force in different situations etc. Just having a gun is not enough and I would definitely recommend a uscca membership to anybody who carries.
@@thelastword4616 that's very unfortunate. Unfortunate point of view. We all at one time had a first birth cry and regardless of our job we are still humans. Most of us have a moral compass to want to combat that which is egregiously wrong.
I’m sure the officer’s family would appreciate you saving their loved ones life.
That feel nice when you get charged with murder
I'd rather see the civilians family happy they're alive. Cops are terrorists.
@@firefly9838 Well, your self defense weapon should not be able to kill, it should be able to defend you from danger.
If you can save another mans life without killing another, you should be safe from court.
@@sus5353 there's nothing that's everywhere near as reliable as a firearm.
Pepper-spray and Tazer literally don't work on everyone. How would a woman defend from a big guy for example? By material arts? Wouldn't be very effective in that situation. A firearm would work wonders however.
Cops are minutes away, maybe you oughta be minutes away. Honestly if you risk going to jail for helping a cop with your own gun then it’s not worth it, just walk away or find another cop to help his buddy.
In the beginning of the video when he says you decided to go to the store and even though it’s a short trip you decide to bring your gun… That should’ve never been a decision …it should already be on your holster the moment you wake up …to the moment you go to bed.
Very informative. Thanks.
When the Supreme Court rules that law enforcement officers have no obligation to use force to protect citizens then reciprocity is acceptable.
there won't be , because there isn't
@@lees7610 Yes, it has already been done. Police are not obligated to protect individuals. Supreme Court Ruling.
Fully agree. I am a civilian by choice. I made the conscious decision to never join the armed forces or police because my life isn't worth the risk. I CCW because my life and family is worth defending, and I know others won't step up to do that for me. Officers have zero laws requiring they come to my assistance, and I have a greater chance of getting murdered if I get involved in their business. Cops have shot many CCW carriers in the past with zero warning, and it will happen to you if you grab your gun while a cop is yelling out in distress. Tunnel vision, adrenaline, shooting, and now you are the one laying a puddle of blood because you didn't hear the cops running up and start blasting without warning. In that instance, you are the bad guy with a gun until the scene is clear. Now your family gets a check in the mail from the taxpayers instead of a father at home. Your life is always worth more than theirs
Was about to say that, they have no obligation to protect us, so why should I care? I already pay their salary, if they aren't equipped to deal with a threat. Oh well, should have used that funding a bit better I guess 🙃
Damn straight.
What a Scenario --ill be running that through my head at least a few times. Thank You!
Any person that still supports the police and flies the blue line flag after everything you've seen with BLM, Jan 6, mask mandates, shutting down churches and businesses is part of the problem
@@africanlipplateandbonenose3223 this has nothing to do with “flying the thin blue line”. This has to do with protecting someone getting their ass beat to death. If the scenario was the same without the person being a cop, my actions would still be the same. Has nothing to do with occupation, race, gender, ect. This is America and that’s how it should be.
C'mon, Troll much?
Nope:) I don't think you will be running that through your head:) LOL! It was a great scenario, but no body is gonna think about every consequence he spelled out and respond. Anyone that would respond, is gonna respond instantly, anyone that thinks about it first most likely will not respond. At least that's what I think anyway.
And this scenario is why women shouldn't be cops. Just about any guy (soy boys excluded) can overpower 99% of women whether she is a cop or not.
I was a member a few years back.
I wish you could come back to New Jersey.
No matter who it is if I see someone in a life threatening situation I’m going to do my best to help
Retired fire/medic here. Cops always had my back. I'll always have theirs.
Retired cop here. I alway made sure my fire/paramedic brothers and sisters were safe!
Govt taking care of govt.
@@MrHunt916 no. People taking care of people.
@@atravers349
No govt taking care of govt
@@MrHunt916 I mean I’m not against it
Good to know. Thank you
Hi
Thank You
Detail is appropriate
🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Reminding the three rules was extremely important.
There might be other bystanders that are currently *behind* the target, or somebody else trying to help the cop.
In a situation you have an option to engage, its really easy to get a tunnel vision.
The observation effect psychology most likely prevent other people from trying to help the cop
@@eimerhegel427 it’s not wanting to get shot by cops showing up or getting charges because they didn’t like how you helped or some liberal dipshtt DA wants to make an example out of gun owners. Law enforcement has created an environment where they have discouraged citizens from self defense because they go out of their way to make you pay for it. This is literally a page by an insurance company specifically to fight legal challenges from self defense shootings. The only advice they should be giving is to turn around and leave. Let the cops clean it up. The way law enforcement treats concealed carry citizens is why no one should ever help a cop with a firearm ever. We don’t want to die or destroy our lives trying to help people who are not here to help anyone. Cops in Texas turned the full weight of their law enforcement agencies against a woman for hitting a cop that inexplicably ran out into traffic in front of her. They will put you or I under the jail if they don’t kill us outright at the scene. They don’t care if you were trying help.
You DO NOT want to be a guy with a gun and no uniform when backup arrives. If you cant neutralize the threat quickly then you’re risking your life. If one is ok with that then go for it.
Great advice!
Great video very informative
Thank you for offering these well-constructed scenarios to educate “those of us who operate with the highest standard at being responsible & accountable in the use of gun ownership & the freedom of which we are afforded that right” 👍🇺🇸
Your "quote" is DEFECTIVE.
Awesome video and lesson. As a MP, I see the situation as out of the officers control. I would first announce myself with, task direction of the assailant. The mental decision to shoot has already been made the moment I've drawn my weapon, but can change if the assailant complies. Either after the shoot, or detainment of the individual the condition of the officer is next. All of these decisions is because of the immediate threat to the officer, secondly if he turned attention to myself and/or other bystanders(potential active shooter scenario). 100% compliance once additional forces arrive.
Another SF/MP: Agreed!
🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷 damn straight
A MP? Say no more I already know what kinda person you are! And yes I was In the Marines! We never see y’all out in town and you know why!
Why give commands ? By time I see it happening I've already assumed as I'm drawing my weapon that the officer probley tried commands already and then deployed the spray and tazer when he didint comply and then he goes beserk on the officer . Giving commands doesn't seem like a viable option at this point. It's time to empty a mag into him and hopefully your carrying a powerful gun because chances are this guy is own something like pcp. Remember, he was mumbling to himself earlier and you felt so unnerved by him that you kept alot of distance when going around him into the store. That's clue one that he's on something. Clues 2 & 3 are the officer deployed oc spray and a tazer and not only did they have no effect but it enraged him and he clearly has no fear of the consequences a sane person would know they are gonna face for assaulting this officer so brutally. I hate to say it but from the description Kevin gave , I'm assuming this guy is on pcp or bath salt and I'm not shooting to wound I'm shooting to stop and unfourtantily with someone on pcp or bath salt body shots will not take effect fast enough. I'm killing the brain. I'm emptying my mag into his head. It's brutal I know but that's the only thing that's gonna stop him
PCP? Dude this ain’t the 70’s
Good video and informative but, I'm definitely in. Protecting the officer is my primary concern and duty as a law abiding citizen that lawfully carries a firearm. In the past I've been involved with assisting a LEO with a suspect that has the officer overwhelmed. I was able to subdue that person with my training in self defense. In this case, I would definitely move up to a closer position while drawing my weapon with full intent to shoot the suspect until no longer a threat. Taking in consideration the background of shot.
Like you mentioned no time to call or tell suspect to stop without further endangering officer further. My 2 cents...
Really enjoy your content. Very informative
We are glad to see you find it informative, Jermaine. What point stuck out to you the most?
I have military police training from my service many years ago but I still appreciate very much these videos y'all produce. I haven't carried for years but with the constant decay of our society I am starting to carry again as I live in a large metroplex and simply practicing at a range isn't enough. Thanks for making these videos! I pray I never have to draw my weapon but I want to be fully prepared if I do need to.
MPs are worse than 2nd LTs filth of the armed services.
@@dsmithrocks22 tldr
@@dsmithrocks22 bro be making some nonsense up
99.9999998 percent of the time this will not be the case
constant decay aka decades long decrease in violent crime across the country... so paranoid
@@brentdavidson1 constant decay a.k.a defund police, don’t prosecute crimes, homeless camps al over major cities = prepared, NOT paranoid.
I love this video. Something I was always taught was to never point a gun at someone if you don’t intend to shoot. You always have to be ready and consider what’s behind them, before that gun is pointed at them. Similar to racing, things can change at an instant and those changes can be major changes. So make sure you have certainty behind your actions.
Of that of course follow that an observer have to assume that anyone pointing a gun at someone intend to shoot that person.
I have been faced with nearly this exact scenario.Twice. Fortunately, no need for my firearm to come into play. First time, a cop pulled over a DUI 'suspect' got sucker punched and went down. I came on the run, as I leapt over the cop car hood to tackle the drunk, he was trying to get the officers gun out of his holster. Wound up in the paper and getting a commendation letter from the city. Second time two cops were trying to arrest a shoplifter. the teen was combative. I stepped in, pinned the kid down till the cuffs were applied, another commendation, different city. I never considered the danger I had placed myself in, I just did what needed doing.
Roll forward 15 years. The police in the small town I was in, along with the judge and persecutor arrested me six times for things I had not done. My ex kept lying claiming I was stalking her. That is the short version. I burned my two commendation letters.
My conclusion is, if I ever find myself in that situation again, I will keep my distance and possibly video the event on my phone. Yes, there are some good cops out there, but where the hell are they when they are needed? The things that were done to me should never happen, not even to an animal.
Sorry officer, let that thin blue line, that protects police when they violate the law, their oath and or their duty, protect you now.
I spent 6 years in the military, mostly in combat. It will NOT be easy for me to "sit this one out" but I will.
Better that, than to later discover I had saved the life of a bad cop.
Any cop reading this, thank your buddies for my attitude. I have nothing against you, but I am not putting MY life on the line for you again. Not when you have no duty to protect me and mine. I do not need the legal trouble for a shooting, even one well justified. Not for a cop. For others, sure. you guys are always so quick to demand I disarm to make you feel safe. you are COWARDS today.
The police and courts have taken everything from me repeatedly, though I have no criminal record, other than the false charges i spoke of above. The judge was her bishop from church and never listened to a single word of my defense.
Police regularly abuse and attack their supporters in so many ways.
Welcome officer to the reality you and your buddies treatment of the public has created.
I like the way ya think... I tell so many these are the things ya have to think of in these situations, and it can change in a millisecond.
Can you do a video of “if you’re ever attacked by a rogue cop, can you defend yourself”?
Good one. It is a valid scenario. Far more so than the OP.
How do we know this wasn't a rouge cop?
The answer is no everytime because the district attorney will have the "officers" back no matter what happens and you will wind up in jail or prison
@@jameshoward8609
In the scenario he described, it doesn’t matter.
@@tvc184 Only because they have Qualified Immunity; and a bunch of sheep that have no problem looking the other way.
Thank you for explaining this. It is not easy like some might think.
You're right, and it's a shame because of the courts that if you don't take 5 minutes to think through your basic instinct of helping someone that you could possibly go to prison. It's absurd.
@@paulfaggart3423 I’m not raggin on you but yes the court systems are trash, however, in reality all those thoughts come within a split second.
If you’re not used to the stress then yes it may take you 5 mins. But thankfully I can take a good thing from combat experience and that’s being able to make a decision like that within a split second
@@Whiskey5_ that experience would be pretty helpful. Not having it though, I try to think through different scenarios and make up my mind what to do, so if I'm ever faced with it I hopefully won't hesitate. However, things don't always work out the way you plan, so...
@@paulfaggart3423 you are so right . You can train and think you are ready. When time comes then you will know then . I was in the navy and you always have to look over your shoulder. It is you be on guard or you will pay for it in the end . Yes I had some try to rob the ones and me and we dealt with them . But things do not aways work out like we want also with the way the court system is now.
@@paulfaggart3423 yeah, and that’s the biggest part, because you never know how you’re going to truly react I. A situation like that until it happens. So the best thing you could do is to get the training. Start with your draw and fire, then work up to shooting and moving, then throw in stressors.
And another big thing is some form of martial arts training, ground fighting oriented. Which I still need to do more of. But definitely finding away to put stresses physically and mentally while training will help. And if you do it enough your body will default to your training in stressful situations.
Last but not least, having the courage to actually do it. That’s something you just can’t train.
2:50 - He failed to mention a 4th option: Walk away.
You are under no obligation to assist a _strong, empowered,_ EQUAL OINKER. You are under no obligation to put yourself at risk of injury or death to save ANYONE. Are you a hero? Are you prepared to be handcuffed and taken to jail for 8 hours or even 18 months on someone else's behalf? Kyle Rittenhouse spent 18 months in jail defending HIS OWN life. Are you prepared to do that for a complete stranger? Are you prepared to be sued because you took the life of some doctor student who was on his way to doctor school when he was being picked on by the police all the time every where for no reason whatsoever?
OK, so you saw some inward bee ting Ms Piggy and the fact that she's a woman tugged at your heart strings. Are the police going to give you a reward for saving her? Are they going to pay your bills while you're sitting in jail? Are they going to provide you with a lawyer while the deceased doctor student's mother is suing you because her son was a good boy and loved to play bassekbaw?
If so then consider this. Cop skill more people than they save. They ki l l 10,000 family dogs every year, usually for no good reason.
MY policy is that my life and my wife's life are my first and only priority. If WE are under attack and we can get away by turning tail and running then that's just what we'll do. We'll call 911 if and when there is time, and I'll only shewt if there are no other life-saving options. And I'll keep shoe ting until the threat falls down and is no longer a threat, or if he turns his back to me and runs away, and in either case is no longer a threat to me or my wife.
Thank you.
Also depends on where you are. Some states/cities will call you a hero and some will try and lock you up instead of the attacker. Know your area and know your local laws.
I’ve never heard of this happening in my area, but you bring up a great point, I feel that my city would be the one to raise a defender like that as a hero as our entire city payed respects to a cop who was killed by a drunk driver
Stay out of Democrat cities.
Only help in red states. 👍🏻
"When in Rome"
@@rubiconoutdoors3492 and in a red state you've got a mixed bag of bootlickers and sovereign citizen enthusiasts who just want a chance to shoot someone so in this scenario there's already going to be a firing squad execution before I finish having this moral/legal argument in my head this guy presented.
Someone shared with me an experience his friend had. A police officer was involved with a domestic issue. The officer was fighting his own son-in-law in the front of a house. Seeing how ugly the fight was the man thought the officer was responding to a call and trying to subdue a bad guy. So the man shot the son in law. In the end it turned out that the officer was the aggressor. The man who tried to defend the officer was charged with murder.
bruh imagine being assaulted and shot. what an unlucky day
THAT, sure is a "prime example" of what could "go wrong" in the whole scenario of intervening in an altercation, which a person has no real KNOWLEDGE of "the FACTS"!
Yikes! This is like a worst nightmare scenario come to life.
Like the very detailed scenario it is explained accordingly to what we seè happening around the world with criminals engaging in officers that are there to protect and serve
Hi, i am a Swedish native and if i was a wittness to a crime comited to a Swedish cop i would call 112 and request my telephone call be conected to a Swedish police station and tell any cop on my Phone that a cop is in danger and cop needs assistance fast then If i was a owner of a firearm i would ask for permission on my Phone from a cop on police station If i can assist or help troubled cop in distress then i am can assist a Swedish police in trouble by get any attacker to surender or to shoot a criminal in the leg with my gun not to kill but only wound a criminal to save a cops life. Laws and rules in Sweden is different than in USA and firearms owning his harshly restricted and aiding a Swedish cop in trouble with firearms is often forbidden so a gunowner needs to get permission by a senior police that works on a police station to use licensed firearm to save a cop in danger so laws and rules in this kind of situations is extremly harsh and punishment of acting wrongly is severe in court of law.
Next video:
Kids need help (Can you run past the officers blocking you?)
USCCA: "no, get shot in the back and then dabbed on son!"
@@guillermoelnino unreasonable reply
@@M60gunner1971 cops cannot be reasoned with when their pensions are in jeopardy..
And remember, no mater how justified you are that will not prevent the suspects family coming after you in civil court trying to take everything you own!
Quite a few states have laws on the books prohibiting civil suits in self-defense cases, depending on the circumstances. Even unlikely ones like Illinois, defense of another and defense of the home both provide civil immunity.
@@crowe6961 "Imperfect self-defense" is the legal loophole they will use on that one. You didn't comply with all the myriad rules and standards about things like imminence & proportionality, etc. Judge will let it go to trial (and you start paying through the nose for lawyers). Then you hope that you don't get a jury so dumb that they buy "shooting someone who just had a baseball bat is excessive" or "he could have shot him in the leg". Lawyers teach other lawyers seminars on tactics like that. I even watched one at a hotel I was staying at where a lawyer was teaching other lawyers how to bypass that state's good Samaritan law to sue those who performed CPR, rescued someone from a burning building, etc.
In the words of the great bumper sticker philosopher of long ago, "better to be judged by 12, than carried by 6." But you are 100% correct. Too many families out there are under the illusion that their (insert family member here) isn't a bad person, they were just hanging out with a bad crowd. But I disagree. If your (insert family member here) is breaking into my house and/or trying to do me harm, they ARE the bad crowd and will be dealt with accordingly. The most protection you can provide yourself is knowing the law forwards and backwards rather than wishing you had after the fact. It would kind of suck to be so worried about doing everything legal that you hesitated a bit too long and ended up dead. Again, though, you are right that the families of these idiots will take any opportunity to sue you. The scary part is that sometimes those lawsuits are lost by the ones trying to not be killed by a bad guy.
@@johngori9477 yeah, there were a couple cases even recently where a person was saved from certain death and sued the person who saved them. Jack-assery! I think a good portion of this is from the fact that we regulate the safety of everything to death and otherwise Darwin Award recipients are not thinned out of the herd at a young age as they otherwise would have been only a few decades ago.
@@crowe6961 it's too bad that we can't say every state has those laws. It is encouraging, however, that some do.