For clarification, the racks and cable management directly attached to it are billed separately as line items, but hours are added for their installation
Love the videos. Two questions. 1 - I thought I saw a vid of yours where you briefly talked about cutting out concrete channels with a special saw. Can you link that to me? I might be wrong, and I dreamt it or something. 2 - what do you guys charge for prep time?
One of my first jobs was core drilling thru the floor,it was fun! You sat on a ladder,holding a bucket to catch the core,with a guy drilling above your head. The fun part was that if your measurement was off a little bit,the bit would grab the bucket,try to rip it out of your hands,while a core(spinning at a 1000rpm) and a bunch of hot water came shooting down right in your face! Never got flung off the ladder,but it tried more than once!
Do you have examples of bids we could look at? That would be awesome to see how those are constructed and see the added expenses, such as hammer drilling, prewire before walls and ceiling vs after.
I posted this question on the forum, but no comments so I will try here --> What's the best way to learn structured cabling? Books, videos, take a class, become an electrician or just go do it?
You could start with the Bible ;) www.amazon.com/Cabling-Complete-Copper-Fiber-Optic-Networking/dp/1118807324/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Cabling%3A+The+Complete+Guide+to+Copper+and+Fiber-Optic+Networking&qid=1594118687&s=books&sr=1-1
One thing we always insisted on when bidding a job was to have the customer or his engineer determine whether this was a plenum or non-plenum job. We had a job that was partially done and the electrical inspector insisted on plenum but the customer got stuck with the extra cost because they had specked non in the bid docs.
Those are always a pain to determine if plenum are needed or not. Depending on how the ceilings are built for the A/C. If it is a open return system then you have to use plenum. Seems these days most offices are built like that so it's safer just to use plenum despite the added cost.
Would love to talk to you about how you get your price per drop and your pricing in general. I’m wanting to start my own company. And really struggling a good way to estimate job time, and pricing.
There a labeling scheme you use? BICSI? And do you take the time to try to put the punch downs in sequence on the patch panel? It gets my blood boiling when we ask a client if they have a labeling scheme and they say use ours... Then halfway into the project or at the end(which just tees me off even more)... "oh actually, we do have a labeling scheme we want you to use..." or "yeah... we want you to have the patch panel done in this particular order, plz thks." Then comes the murderous rage and just imagining pummeling that guy's face in the sidewalk. Even after incessantly asking, are you sure you want it this way... are you REALLY sure...? I've had to change labels for a job TWICE on one occasion 140+ drops, once cause they didn't wanna use the labeling scheme we suggested, and again when they realized they gave me bad instructions on how to label things after I had already labeled everything a 2nd time... Fun times... Edit: I've come across one job where the client didn't' wanna share their labeling scheme and placement map(weird?)... We were at the point where we were contemplating ways to just steal it... They didn't share it until the very end, and we were just counting our blessing the way we ran the cables and how it went on the patch panel nearly matched what they had.
I find the job boards are only good for break/fix and priority calls. The work rarely gets posted by the end client. Most, if not all of the work orders are posted by MSP's and "middle-man" companies, so once the job gets to you its probably been subbed out 2 or 3 times. There are just too many hands in the pot to make any profit from larger projects and structured cabling work. Those platforms and job boards are only good for "filler" work. Not to mention you'll probably be bidding against people with lesser experience that don't know what to charge, so yeah...a race to the bottom.
Do you add some cables runs in the ceiling for future asks? Are the racks and cable management separate line items? Please show the finish rack on the future video.
I spec my Sub-Sub-Sub Contracting rate out at around $55/$65 an hour and I charge $0.29 for Cat5 plenum and $0.35 for Cat6 plenum. And you want to assume Most drops the customer wants are about 200ft on average (its a high average because you of course don't want to come in too low) so that's around $60 for ethernet cable and I add $10.00 for the additional wall Jack/Wall Plate/misc items used so for its about $70 per drop for materials plus I assume 2 hours to rough-in/hang/drop/terminate/test/label each wire properly. So $65/hour times 2 for about $130 in labor. So about $200/drop. If the customer wants a lot of drops then I'll drop the price or dual drops going to the EXACT same wall plate or wall biscuit will get an even bigger discount. But these are my rule of thumb prices for anyone that is wondering out there. Labor rate for Direct Hire work is $85/hour. Same pricing for materials though. I have been in this business for over 15 years though and I have impeccable work. When I first started I was putting in drops for $100 with materials included in that price. Hope this info helps a young technician out there.
@@philippe146 I spec my Sub-Sub-Sub Contracting rate out at around $55/$65 an hour and I charge $0.29 for Cat5 plenum and $0.35 for Cat6 plenum. And you want to assume Most drops the customer wants are about 200ft on average (its a high average because you of course don't want to come in too low) so that's around $60 for ethernet cable and I add $10.00 for the additional wall Jack/Wall Plate/misc items used so for its about $70 per drop for materials plus I assume 2 hours to rough-in/hang/drop/terminate/test/label each wire properly. So $65/hour times 2 for about $130 in labor. So about $200/drop. If the customer wants a lot of drops then I'll drop the price or dual drops going to the EXACT same wall plate or wall biscuit will get an even bigger discount. But these are my rule of thumb prices for anyone that is wondering out there. Labor rate for Direct Hire work is $85/hour. Same pricing for materials though. I have been in this business for over 15 years though and I have impeccable work. When I first started I was putting in drops for $100 with materials included in that price. Hope this info helps a young technician out there.
One of my first jobs was core drilling thru the floor,it was fun! You sat on a ladder,holding a bucket to catch the core,with a guy drilling above your head. The fun part was that if your measurement was off a little bit,the bit would grab the bucket,try to rip it out of your hands,while a core(spinning at a 1000rpm) and a bunch of hot water came shooting down right in your face! Never got flung off the ladder,but it tried more than once!
For clarification, the racks and cable management directly attached to it are billed separately as line items, but hours are added for their installation
Love the videos. Two questions.
1 - I thought I saw a vid of yours where you briefly talked about cutting out concrete channels with a special saw. Can you link that to me? I might be wrong, and I dreamt it or something.
2 - what do you guys charge for prep time?
One of my first jobs was core drilling thru the floor,it was fun! You sat on a ladder,holding a bucket to catch the core,with a guy drilling above your head. The fun part was that if your measurement was off a little bit,the bit would grab the bucket,try to rip it out of your hands,while a core(spinning at a 1000rpm) and a bunch of hot water came shooting down right in your face! Never got flung off the ladder,but it tried more than once!
Sounds like a blast XD
Pretty neat topic. Congrats on winning the job and all the good vibes so that it all goes well.
Thank
A whole lot of this went over my head, but there's great info here! Thank you for taking the time to make these videos!
Do you have examples of bids we could look at? That would be awesome to see how those are constructed and see the added expenses, such as hammer drilling, prewire before walls and ceiling vs after.
I posted this question on the forum, but no comments so I will try here --> What's the best way to learn structured cabling? Books, videos, take a class, become an electrician or just go do it?
You could start with the Bible ;) www.amazon.com/Cabling-Complete-Copper-Fiber-Optic-Networking/dp/1118807324/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Cabling%3A+The+Complete+Guide+to+Copper+and+Fiber-Optic+Networking&qid=1594118687&s=books&sr=1-1
One thing we always insisted on when bidding a job was to have the customer or his engineer determine whether this was a plenum or non-plenum job. We had a job that was partially done and the electrical inspector insisted on plenum but the customer got stuck with the extra cost because they had specked non in the bid docs.
Those are always a pain to determine if plenum are needed or not. Depending on how the ceilings are built for the A/C. If it is a open return system then you have to use plenum. Seems these days most offices are built like that so it's safer just to use plenum despite the added cost.
This is my 9 - 5. At least I know I'm doing it like other pros. 👍
Enjoyed the video your job is one of my dream jobs if i was not on disability and could work full time. I love all things networking and IT
Hi Tom, great video on the "real" side of running networks.
Would love to talk to you about how you get your price per drop and your pricing in general. I’m wanting to start my own company. And really struggling a good way to estimate job time, and pricing.
There a labeling scheme you use? BICSI? And do you take the time to try to put the punch downs in sequence on the patch panel? It gets my blood boiling when we ask a client if they have a labeling scheme and they say use ours... Then halfway into the project or at the end(which just tees me off even more)... "oh actually, we do have a labeling scheme we want you to use..." or "yeah... we want you to have the patch panel done in this particular order, plz thks." Then comes the murderous rage and just imagining pummeling that guy's face in the sidewalk. Even after incessantly asking, are you sure you want it this way... are you REALLY sure...? I've had to change labels for a job TWICE on one occasion 140+ drops, once cause they didn't wanna use the labeling scheme we suggested, and again when they realized they gave me bad instructions on how to label things after I had already labeled everything a 2nd time... Fun times...
Edit: I've come across one job where the client didn't' wanna share their labeling scheme and placement map(weird?)... We were at the point where we were contemplating ways to just steal it... They didn't share it until the very end, and we were just counting our blessing the way we ran the cables and how it went on the patch panel nearly matched what they had.
YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG! - Just kidding, you asked for that, great video as always.
I find the job boards are only good for break/fix and priority calls. The work rarely gets posted by the end client. Most, if not all of the work orders are posted by MSP's and "middle-man" companies, so once the job gets to you its probably been subbed out 2 or 3 times. There are just too many hands in the pot to make any profit from larger projects and structured cabling work. Those platforms and job boards are only good for "filler" work. Not to mention you'll probably be bidding against people with lesser experience that don't know what to charge, so yeah...a race to the bottom.
How is it possible to route cables through the downstairs tenant's ceiling? Does the upstairs office have to pay for the usage?
With permission from the building owner. There are usually clauses in tenant lease agreements that allow for this.
@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS thanks for the answer!
Do you add some cables runs in the ceiling for future asks? Are the racks and cable management separate line items? Please show the finish rack on the future video.
Yes, we charge for the racks and their parts.
@@LAWRENCESYSTEMS So, the racks and materials are not build into the per cable run cost.
@@alonzosmith6189 correct
Dang good information!
most places i see estimate about $160-$200 based on 200' per run. RCDD cablers.
I spec my Sub-Sub-Sub Contracting rate out at around $55/$65 an hour and I charge $0.29 for Cat5 plenum and $0.35 for Cat6 plenum. And you want to assume Most drops the customer wants are about 200ft on average (its a high average because you of course don't want to come in too low) so that's around $60 for ethernet cable and I add $10.00 for the additional wall Jack/Wall Plate/misc items used so for its about $70 per drop for materials plus I assume 2 hours to rough-in/hang/drop/terminate/test/label each wire properly. So $65/hour times 2 for about $130 in labor. So about $200/drop. If the customer wants a lot of drops then I'll drop the price or dual drops going to the EXACT same wall plate or wall biscuit will get an even bigger discount. But these are my rule of thumb prices for anyone that is wondering out there. Labor rate for Direct Hire work is $85/hour. Same pricing for materials though.
I have been in this business for over 15 years though and I have impeccable work. When I first started I was putting in drops for $100 with materials included in that price.
Hope this info helps a young technician out there.
All good.
I’m looking to invest in a structured cabling company. What advice would you give me on investing in a startup company?
Same as any other, find good people.
how do you handle out of states jobs that requires permit
I guess I missed the actual bid breakdown
my price would be 375.00 per run. turn-key with scan report for each cable.
Hi tom, could you review adguard home and compare it to pi-hole? Thank
nope, I don't use it
Biggest question for me: what do you pay to your employes?
Fair market rates for the area we live in.
Do you have a low voltage license ?
Not needed here in Michigan.
Wow that’s awesome ! in Florida you need it
How i can rent from game studio office. ???
How much do you charge by Drops he never mentioned it on the video
That's because it varies by job.
Lawrence Systems / PC Pickup
What is it on On average if it’s ok to ask is it about 150$ a drop? I know it varies a lot
@@philippe146
I spec my Sub-Sub-Sub Contracting rate out at around $55/$65 an hour and I charge $0.29 for Cat5 plenum and $0.35 for Cat6 plenum. And you want to assume Most drops the customer wants are about 200ft on average (its a high average because you of course don't want to come in too low) so that's around $60 for ethernet cable and I add $10.00 for the additional wall Jack/Wall Plate/misc items used so for its about $70 per drop for materials plus I assume 2 hours to rough-in/hang/drop/terminate/test/label each wire properly. So $65/hour times 2 for about $130 in labor. So about $200/drop. If the customer wants a lot of drops then I'll drop the price or dual drops going to the EXACT same wall plate or wall biscuit will get an even bigger discount. But these are my rule of thumb prices for anyone that is wondering out there. Labor rate for Direct Hire work is $85/hour. Same pricing for materials though.
I have been in this business for over 15 years though and I have impeccable work. When I first started I was putting in drops for $100 with materials included in that price.
Hope this info helps a young technician out there.
First
One of my first jobs was core drilling thru the floor,it was fun! You sat on a ladder,holding a bucket to catch the core,with a guy drilling above your head. The fun part was that if your measurement was off a little bit,the bit would grab the bucket,try to rip it out of your hands,while a core(spinning at a 1000rpm) and a bunch of hot water came shooting down right in your face! Never got flung off the ladder,but it tried more than once!