Excellent video as always but mainly, I just want to say, Thank You!! Because of you, I decided not to follow my plan of purchasing a BMW scooter and went with the 2022 LiveWire ONE. It was delivered about 3 weeks ago and I absolutely love it. You can't beat the smoothness, performance and the way it handles. Was hesitant only because of my age, 68 but in good shape. Been riding Spyders for the last 10 years, preparing myself for the golden years but with the LiveWire I'm going to put that on the back burner for awhile. Still have a F3-T for the long comfortable rides. Thanks again for all your info, really helped me make the right choice.
If you're interested in any other background on my three quotes there, I can provide a bit. I don't think the first two quotes are contradictory (and no, I wasn't required to say anything at all to ride the bike. I wouldn't accept a test ride offer if it came with conditions that prevented me from saying my honest opinion). I truly believe the LiveWire One's lack of higher power Level 2 charging is a bummer. When I ride it and happen to park somewhere with 7 kW Level 2 chargers, it's a shame that I can't put much charge back into the battery in an hour or so lunch stop. If it had a 6 kW AC charger on board, then I could Level 2 charge for an hour at any shopping mall and get a half charge. That would be very useful. It's not a deal breaker, but it would be a nice addition to the bike. Next, for the second quote, I also truly believe that the lack of Level 3 charging on the Del Mar is also a bummer. Being able to go from 20-80% in a half hour so is incredibly useful. I love that feature on the LiveWire One. Which brings me to my third quote, which I think pretty much stands on its own. 🙂
Micah, I am one of your fanboys. I've been reading, watching and enjoying your content for years. However, your statements about Level 2 charging on electric motorcycles are ridiculous. The fact is that public DC Fast chargers have a 25% out-of-service problem among many other serious issues. Public Level 2 chargers are way worse. Meanwhile, Tesla Superchargers are faster, 100% reliable and much easier to use. No LiveWire ONE owner has ever, "Happen to park somewhere with a 7 KW Level 2 charger" and wished they could use it while having a lunch stop. It has simply never happened. You have a giant platform. You need to call out the public charging buffoonery. Billions of dollars have been wasted already. Billions more will be wasted in the future. The Tesla Supercharger experience is completely different than DC Fast charging. The public is confused and does not know the difference. Your job is to educate, not to placate. Companies like Electrify America are ripping off the taxpayer and doing serious damage to EV adoption. Use your voice. Here is the truth about the Del Mar and charging: ruclips.net/video/xWodxZB92k4/видео.html
Thank you for methodically creating these technical videos. I've been closely following the Tesla community for several years, and the technical minded fan base really helps market the vehicles in the vacuum of Tesla marketing department. The owners and fans create and distribute compelling content that would simply not be available anywhere else. Even though Livewire has a marketing department, it may as well be non-existent. Early adopters need technical details. Not marketing photos of actors posing with a motorcycle. HD / Livewire has excellent engineering and the ability to dominate heavy electric motorcycling. WTF do they think they are doing right now?
Excellent presentation, once again. A big part of the reason I made a reservation for the Del Mar is because of the information you help to put out there, clarify and highlight. I totally agree with your assessment of the importance of Level 3 charging for the urban rider. Fortunately, I live in a nice house in the GA mountains and have a garage that I can charge the Del Mar. I will use it mainly to rip and ride around the surrounding areas. I rode the Livewire One yesterday at a demo ride and absolutely loved it. However, I don't love the price necessarily, but can afford it. I also thought the mirrors were horrible so that would have to be changed if I went with it But all in all, I agree with you that the Del Mar is far superior outside of range and charging. Since I am not worried about those two, I will wait for the Del Mar. As you pointed out, it's designed by the same guy who designed my current motorcycle, the Sportster S. And I absolutely love that bike.
Fortunately, I also fit the Del Mar profile. I have a plug both at home and at work. I already had an electrician install a 220 volt plug for my Founders Addition. I can hardly wait!
95% of electric riders charge at night at home and know very well what they use their bikes for .. I have a zero fx for 7 years now ..and will buy an energica Experia for longrange and fast charging ..have fun !!!
@@freedomiseverything please let me know if you noticed this… on the day that LVWR went public, every major outlet that interviewed Jochen Zeitz asked the same question: “what is your target demographic?” Every outlet asked him that! IMO Jochen seemed uncomfortable when that question was asked and I dare say seemed like he didn’t have an answer for it. Did you see that too?
@@danewchampeen8722 I noticed that on the CNBC interview. As much as Jack hypes Jochen, he fumbled the opportunity to convey a message and instead had no answers to even softball opportunities. I was VERY disappointed in the media blitz.
@@danewchampeen8722 He did not know the target demographic and he did not know how to answer the question about what the bike cost. Jochen often has problems with communication and messaging. He needs to learn how to get the point across in five words or less when he is talking to reporters on TV. I agree with you. He was unrehearsed and unprepared. He blew it. I knew this TV moment was coming and I knew the LiveWire marketing team was inept. So, I did a video about what Jochen should say on TV two months ago: ruclips.net/video/8ReCgLqLj5E/видео.html "We are developing and introducing products specifically targeted at young people. Younger customers want more than just freedom, adventure, closest to nature and joy. They also want environmentally responsible products and they love the latest new technologies. Our new LiveWire Del Mar motorcycle fits the bill perfectly. It’s fully electric and it’s the first and only cloud connected motorcycle that does over-the-air-updates to ensure our customers enjoy the latest functionality and safety features. It even has hand controls to remotely operate, phone apps and an external USB-C port to run camera equipment. We are inspiring a new generation of young riders who will push forward with her own agenda to make the planet a safe and sustainable place."
Great video, and agreed. HD treats the LW as a top secret, classified. The company needs to engage with the customer base better to showcase and clarify its specs & abilities better.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the great service you do communicating so professionally and concisely to LiveWire what they are missing. I have thought some of these points so many times (running costs instead of purchase cost, financing, repair and interval of costs, etc.). I think they should really watch your video and give you the Del Mar for free. The amount of strategic thinking, your eloquence and the extent of detail of all you mention is pretty mind-blowing. Most of all I enjoy your commitment to make one thing clear: Leading brands like LiveWire have the huge responsability of the survival of motorcycling because they rest on tons of capital that nobody else has or can spend on finding the Coca-Cola formula equivalent of two-wheeled EVs. Again, most appreciated for your dedication.
The S2 is a definite step forward in the underpinnings of the motorcycle. It simplifies everything and makes a more cost effective bike to buy and run. The only step back there is the omission of L3 charging, which I agree is a huge blunder. But the bike is a huge miss in the target audience. An urban commuter will get an electric bike because of cost and approachability. A true enthusiast will choose the non-compromising LW1 because it’s a better bike and the price difference isn’t enough to sway people with that much discretionary income anyway. About all I think they got right is the styling. It’s really great looking. But it fails to move the needle in any other meaningful way into new markets.
Interesting stuff, the safety issue is a biggie here in the UK it's pretty dangerous on bikes too but we do have more stringent tests and 2 basic levels of test plus optional advanced test that is a good idea to do for your own safety and lowers your insurance. Cost of ownership over 3 years was very intersting to note, the biggest cost for electric being depreciation, I usually buy 3 year old cars or bikes in cash to avoid that bit but the livewire one here in the UK is holding its value quite well.so far anyway, shame as I was hoping to buy one at 50% of the new price. Maybe now that electricity is so expensive the novelty will wear off and prices will drop.
I really appreciate your commentaries on Livewire. I don't currently own an electric but hope to one day. Love the look of the Livewire One reminiscent of Early sportster, first bike I loved.
I'm Australian and held off buying a new bike for some time waiting for the HD Livewire to come out! And when it did it was amazing 😍 everything I ever hoped for... Then I saw the absolutely insanely overpriced outrageous price they put on it, and decided I would have to wait until HD came back to reality and lowered the price .. then they refused and axed it 🤦🏼. HD is a Deadman walking at this point, and the rebranding to Livewire is fine but they don't sell Livewire in Australia at all 🤦🏼. To be honest I think I'm done with Harley entirely at this point, will sell my LOWRIDER S this year and go to a company that isn't a greedy snobby T-shirt manufacturer.
The comment about the level 3 charger missing level 2 charger does make sense. If you can't find a level 3 charger... which face it, is rare to find, you are stuck with level 1 charging. Level 2 chargers are much more common, so, the comment makes sense!
Speed kills. The open roads in the USA with higher speed limits are part of the problem. As you pointed out, rider education and tiered license is the missing pieces to safely navigate our highways. Ride Free
Zero motorcycles have the swingarm pivot point inline with their motors. This might be a reason why Livewire doesn’t mention it too much. Then, about Micah, I think he was talking about Livewire One having Level 2 AND Level 3 charging. It should be like the Energicas in my opinion.
Great point about LW 1 on level 3 charging. Many RUclips reviews have no clue. I nowadays only watch real good motorcycle reviews magazine or companies. After this major concern about charging that you hinted I have started thinking about LW 1.
Cycle World strapped a LIveWire ONE to a dyno and got 92.8 HP and 74.2 ft/lbs of torque. On the same day, same dyno, they strapped down a Zero SR/F and got 100.17 HP and 146.45 ft/lbs of torque. The LiveWire ONE is 50 pounds heavier. The LiveWire leaves the Zero for dead at all speeds. What's your explanation? www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/
@@freedomiseverything as mentioned elsewhere, the difference is gearing. The torque numbers from the dyno are divided by the gear ratio to get the torque at the motor. Because the gear ratio on the Zero is taller (smaller ratio), the resulting motor torque is higher for a given torque at the wheel. The difference is roughly 2X because the ratios between the LW1 and Zero differ by about 2X. In practice, the two bikes have nearly identical torques to the wheel.
Why should the American Tax Slaves have to pay Taxes so some one who does not want to pay for the Bike is forced to pay taxes to Subsidize the price for those who do want one? Welcome to Commifornia .
@@freedomiseverything Did you know that the Global Bankers took all of Americans Pension Funds and Invested it into Chinese Manufacturing? Big Companies Like General Motors and John Deere built State of the Art Factories with Robotics in China. They only have to build that Technolgy once in China then the Chinese will Reverse Engineer it and build their own. One of the first Criminal Treasonous things that Bill Clinton did as President is sell Missile Guidance Technolgy to the Chinese for $500,000.00 That' really what Congress was trying to Impeach Clinton for but all they managed to get him in is lying about the BJ's ect that Monica Lowinski was giving him . More Recently Bejing Biden got $3 Million in Bribes from the CCP and Hunter Biden lost much of the $1.2 Billion Hedge Fund that the CCP Let Hunter blow .
@@freedomiseverything Then the USA Blew up the Nordstream Pipeline that shipped Gas to heat Europe.. Now the USA is shipping Liquified Natural gas to Europe at a greater expense.. Now Russia sells all of their Oil and Gas to China and India who have basically no Emissions Regulations on Petrol Burners at all. Yes China has the most EV's and EV Infrastructure in the World. Also China is Opening a Dozen New Dirty Coal Power Plants every year.. Obama Shut down many of the Coal Power plants in the USA Even though USA does have some never Clean Coal Technolgy Power plants..
As a HD LiveWire ELW owner, I have almost zero interest in the Del Mar. DC charging is more important than Level 2 for road trips. I consistently get around 120-125 miles range on my spirited backroad adventures. The original LiveWire is overbuilt and representative of its original $30k price tag. If you're serious about an electric motorcycle, it's the one to get. As far as I am aware, there is no regulatory push to get rid of gas powered motorcycles. Electric motorcycles are fast and fun for those who want them. If the lack of proper clothing and protection has you concerned, take a look at the electric bicycle space.
I've been meaning to give electric bicycles a try. www.lightinthebox.com/en/p/short-sleeve-cycling-jersey-with-shorts-triathlon-tri-suit-summer-dark-grey-mineral-green-red-and-white-bike-quick-dry-sports-mountain-bike-mtb-road-b_p9021133.html?currency=USD&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping&sku=1_672386%7C2_285&country_code=us&adword_mt=&adword_ct=&adword_kw=&adword_pos=&adword_pl=&adword_net=x&adword_tar=&adw_src_id=2907233386_18026406947__&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkOqZBhDNARIsAACsbfKLWfwSclnLakcgWHXkDsTpGIX4Jct7Z0O1mX-O-ex5wUI37rfvvDUaAtK8EALw_wcB
Did you pay $29,000 for the Live Wire.. Seems I read that they sold 400 Livewires tha last quarter of 2022 .. HD Lost Millions on the Livewire because they sold so few of them, they never recovered their engineering and tooling costs..
I am not young, I've never liked Harleys. I sold my 2012 VStrom back in 2014 and never looked at another motorcycle till this year when I went for a test ride on a Zero. I bought the Zero S after testing multiple Zero's and the motorcycle is great but Zero support, well I mean ZERO SUPPORT says everything.... The Del Mar is the only Livewire (Harley) that's ever caught my eye. I only have 2600 miles on my Zero since July 2022 but I think the Del Mar has the improvements I'd like from my Zero S. I don't want/need a super fast bike. I want something fun and efficient that charges at a decent speed (
Thanks for calling out Micah Toll on his inconsistent claims, he has been playing games with various brands like this... From article titles to reviews where he forgets what he reviewed last week which conflicts with his current reviews.
I have to honestly say as a live wire owner the team behind the LiveWire are the worst marketing team in the history of motorcycles. I also have to agree that putting that guy in the suit with the taped up leg was trying to appeal to guys who work in offices that have to wear suits and then on their lunch breaks they can takeoff on their lifewires for a quick thrill Without the smell of gas on them they can go right back to the office in downtown New York on Wall Street and get right back to work just put it in the garage in the downtown parking area and you’re good to go
The fundamental problem is that the engineering and design team at Harley-Davidson produced the most incredible motorcycle in 100 years, and all the marketing people could see was that it was electric.
Guys please help me find the best option and your suggestions about it please. I got an option in front of me, whether to buy a used or a new Livewire One. •Used 2020 Harley Davidson livewire one for $17,500 have run 620miles which is in good condition. I think the price is reduced because of depreciation and it lost its 2year warranty . OR •Buy a new 2023 Livewire One for $22,799. Guys please help me make a good decision because you all know livewire one Better than me. Please give me your suggestions
Buy the HD Livewire. It's probably a first strike (first 500 built). As far as I know, there are no hardware differences between the two. It'll be a collector's item when ev motorcycles catch on. Future classic...
@@electrifyeverything5482 Check with LiveWire, but, I don't think there is any ongoing development for the software on the HD LiveWire. It is what it is. In my opinion, you need to get regular updates to handle DC Fast charger compatibility and things like that.
So: Livewire misses to delivery communication. Zero misses to delivery a product. And press talks about the new Zero [I cannot remember the name], their new "adventure" bike, repeating their presentation without challenging them and calling it the best eMC. Still no DC charging.
Good analysis, however, the author is incorrect about Level-2 charging availability in urban areas. L-2 chargers are far more common than L-3 chargers and L-2 is fast enough to charge to 80% in 75 minutes... perfect for lunchtime charging.
20% to 80% in 75 minutes. 2.5 hours 0% to 100%. Level 2 chargers are much slower for cars than they are for motorcycles. If there’s a car on a level two charger, you’re going to be waiting a long time.
So if I paid $316.00 Per month for 48 months for the Live-wire $15,191.00 + $2,280 = 17,471 paid but I can sell it back for $10,000 Then I can use the bike for 4 years for $5,181.00 + $2,280 = $7,461 That would be a great deal if you put a lot of miles on it. I live in Michigan where most people don't ride their bikes for 5 months per year because of snow and cold .. For me that's more like 3 months.. Seems you told the Insurnace is cheap .. All the same you would have to have Full Coverage Insurance. Oppps I forgot the downpayment . So now I have paid $7,461.00 and have no bike . I paid $7,400 or my Yamaha FZ-07 and I still have it and am still riding it 6 years later. I bought it in 2017. Now it's like my gas is for Free because I don't have any payments to make ..
I like your cost calculation at the end of the presentation. I did the same for my EV's, both cars and motorcycles. People complain about high EV prices because they do not understand total cost of ownership.
Of the 10 million motorcycles in Japan, I'd like to know the cc rating of those. I'd think a much larger majority of bikes are over 400cc in the US. I'd like to see a continuing education requirement for a motorcycle license, or proof of advanced riding class before you are able to renew your license. The more training I take, the more I mistakes I see other riders making all the time putting their lives at risk simply by having too large of an ego and not wanting anymore training.
I am looking into buying an electric bike in the UK and came across your video, I have to agree with most of your conclusions. Harley does not make it easy for the buyer, and the cost over here is not low enough to persuade. Energica seem to be currently, (sic), ticking most of the boxes. Thanks for the independent, informative videos 👍👍
You're in luck. LiveWire just rolled out in the UK 10 days ago. Here is a video of the press introduction in London at The Bike Shed. ruclips.net/video/cy6Q-exu6Fs/видео.html I assume that you're going to see the same big price cut that we got in the USA.
I agree with all of your points except for having a third party nanny system deciding whether or not you "deserve" to use the full capacity of your vehicle. I agree with possibly gatekeeping the purchase with safety courses but once the money has been exchanged I don't want to hear your opinion on my riding.
When I bought a Motorcycle in 2017 at age 57 A Yamaha would not let me ride the bike away from the Dealership with out a Motorcycle Endorsment .. I had to take it home on a trailer..
Many years ago, I had two young sons. Just like you do now. When your boys grow-up, they will read everything you ever posted on the Internet. Just like my boys did. Will your boys be proud? Or will they think that you traded their future for a lie? facebook.com/photo/?fbid=141707731335662&set=ecnf.100064893082156
This video is stone-cold brilliant. You’ve got it crushed, man. One thing the CEO did right was to spin off LiveWire from Harley. The chrome-pipe push-rod crowd can’t do electric right, so it needs to be its own company. What’s remarkable to me is how quickly LiveWire came up with this exceptional Del Mar design. I mean, where did these engineers come from - did they hire a bunch of guys from Tesla? They re-invented motorcycle design taking full advantage of the electric power-train, and I don’t see how the push-rod guys could’ve done that. I reserved mine first day. Their marketing bunch, though, is lagging way behind engineering - as you made clear. I hope a new marketing group is brought in. They need a group that is a lot more technical than this first bunch that just focused on fluff. Or, they could pull a Tesla and just fire their marketing staff and let the customers do the marketing. Your insight on safety is so good. The Tesla Safety Score actually makes safer drivers, so I hope LW does something like that - along with the other safety innovations you suggested. Very smart commentary. I think we should get a Del Mar out to Munro and Associates for a series of tear down videos. Or, you should do a tear down!!
No mate the stupidest thing they did was spin the electric bikes off from HD. The chrome-pipe pish-rod crowd is dead and has been for nearly a decade, sales are plummeting and HD can't run a profit or get younger customers to buy old air cooled cruisers. HD could have been the TESLA of motorcycles and the dinosaurs would have still bought their old cruisers as they died off. But HD threw the baby out with bath water, like usual. What future is in gas bikes 🤔🤣, the future is electric and HD had now admitted that they are a brand resigned to go extinct.
Electric motorcycles won’t sell under the Harley brand. Innovation comes from the upstarts. Tesla is an upstart. LiveWire is an upstart. Both will grow and thrive. GM and Harley will die slow deaths. Stranded assets. Let them die.
maybe they should just hire you to properly promote their bikes lol. also where can I find documentation about the potential ban of registering ice vehicles by 2040? I'd like to share that with people I know who don't think it'll ever happen.
The California Air Resources Board (CARB) passed emission regulations that retroactively pulled all semi-trucks off the roads in California that were built before 2010. They won't let you buy a license plate. Additionally, they levy heavy fines on out-of-state trucks that were built before 2010 and try and drive on California roads. ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/truckstop/pdfs/truck_bus_booklet.pdf California has banned the sale of gas cars after 2035. www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/23320166/california-gasoline-ban-electric-vehicle-car-diesel-climate I am speculating that CARB may try and do the same thing to cars and motorcycles that they have already done to heavy diesel. Make the ban retroactive.
Definitely for someone to say ice bikes cost more to maintain than an electric tells me they never had an electric bike long enough until it has maintenance issues.. get a few bad cells or have to replace a battery ! You’ll spend a lot of money at once ! Which will surpass all the lil maintenance issues you have to deal with on an ice .. getting a battery replacement or repair is like getting a new ice engine and you’ll more likely need a new battery way way thousands of miles before you’ll need a new engine . Ev battery will probably not get you 100k mikes ! Ice bike can easy !..
Japan is 3.84% the size of the US with 20 plus percent more motorcycles. In a culture with so many motorcycles, vehicle drivers are used to seeing and being aware of them unlike the US where they're a novelty. In Japan filtering is legal making it safer for bikes at stop lights, signs or traffic allowing the biker to put vehicles between them and a driver that fail to stop. Cellphones cannot be used in vehicles unless is stopped. The fine is around $700 if caught, however, criminals charges may result if your in an accident. All the technology in the world does not stop a distracted driver on a cell phone killing a biker. Discount the bikers who bar hop, do tricks on the street or are speed thrill seekers, and in addition to ban all cellphone use in vehicles, we couold get that number down to 2.
I checked three different sources at LiveWire. They say the number is correct. I agree with you. It's an absurd number. Let's see it strapped to a dyno...
It’s called gearing. Torque is a meaningless number on an electric motor because you can design basically whatever torque you want, and adjust the gear ratio to get the desired output torque. So the S2 just uses less gear reduction at the rear sprocket. It’s a good system because you have a single gear reduction stage unlike the LW1’s two stage, which makes things cheaper, simpler, and more reliable.
@@freedomiseverything torque is traditionally measured at the motor crankshaft and not the wheel, and I’m certain it is here too. No way you could put nearly 3X the torque to the tire without a cloud of smoke.
I did some digging and the final drive looks to be in the neighborhood of 4.5:1 like the Zero SR/F. That’s about 2X as tall as a gas bike in second gear, which would mean a gas equivalent torque is roughly 2X less than the 178 ft*lb spec (or about 89 ft*lb). That’s definitely still on the torquey side of the motorcycle world, but not as extreme as the headline grabbing spec sheet would make you believe.
Nope. "But ownership can be a hassle if you can’t charge at home or work. For many New Yorkers, who live in apartment buildings, it’s not feasible. And finding charging alternatives is difficult in the Bronx, Staten Island and Queens where there are far fewer public charging stations." gothamist.com/news/electric-car-ownership-remains-novelty-in-nyc-as-infrastructure-is-slow-to-come-online
nope...i'm in a major east coast city...i live in an older 12 story highrise...whole underground parking has only 2 outlets...had to get special permission to charge there from mgmt...and then move back to my parking spot with my car...building changed mgmt company, bike got towed...tow company damaged bike...what would happen if 20 people in the building had bikes?...work downtown in a new office building...whole underground parking deck had 5 outlets...had to ask permission to charge...building wanted to charge me...the only use case that makes sense for electric bikes is urban...yet only suburban and rural can easily charge without hassle
I’ve argued since immigrating to the U.S. that it’s too easy to get a driving license, and stupid to allow riders to ride the biggest, fastest bike without any training or even the skills necessary to ride a bicycle or be a pedestrian; but then, people are allowed to walk around with concealed guns here, so… shouting into a gale, isn’t it.
Nope. Level 2 charging is 75 minutes from 20% to 80%. In your neighborhood, most of the L2 chargers are outside on the street. So, you're going to park a Del Mar outside on the street in NYC unattended? Good luck with that...
Not necessarily a fight with you but I think people worry about the charging a little too much. How often are you really going to pull up to a charging station on 0? There's likely a place near by where you can charge
disagree...as somebody who has commuted with a zero...i can't tell you how hard it is to find ways to charge for city dwellers who don't have a single family house with a garage
Tesla won't let you use the Self Driving mode if you are a Bad Driver.. Now that's a special kind of stupid right there. The whole idea behind self driveling cars and Trucks is to take the human element out of driving . I totally disagree with that. Humans need to keep doing basic tasks like doing their own driving . As far as Driving goes.. German Drivers are very good Drivers and Italian Drivers can be very bad. The Big difference is that Germany has a far more Comprehensive Drivers Training Program,
del mar is in the same category as the zero fx .. I own one for 7 years ..3 break pads 2 tires .. 2 belts (own fault playing too much )its worth 2k now so I lost 8k plus 1k maintenance in 7 years .. but Delmar is way better !!
I think Micah was just observing that there are not enough level 3 chargers out there, and ideally it would have both level 2 and 3, like Energica does. Your attack on him is pretty unfair and cost you some credibility. Others have addressed your torque comment. 0-60 times are similar on Livewire One and Del Mar, at least according to the guy that you trashed.
Energica does not have "real" Level 2 charging. It maxes out at 3 kW or about a 5 hour charge. Not only are there plenty of DC Fast Chargers, but by the end of the year, Tesla will allow DC Fast charging on its Supercharger network. Problem solved. The 0-60 time on LIveWire ONE (3.0 sec) is limited by the wheelie control. The only reason Del Mar might be slighter slower is that it looks like it may have a higher center of gravity. I'll bet you could get faster times by strapping down the forks on Del Mar. I admit the torque claim is unbelievable. However, I have a founders addition on order. The first thing I am going to do it strap it to a dyno and see for myself. I did not trash Micah. In fact, he is looking like a pretty smart guy for figuring out how to get the first ride on a Del Mar.
Zero does not have any system that can charge 0% to 100% in one hour. The real number is 2.5 hours best case. LiveWire ONE can charge 0% to 100% in one hour. There are lots of videos to prove it, including some of mine.
@@el3ctronic Show me a link to a video where the Zero SR/S is charging from 0% to 100% in less than 2.5 hours. It can't come close, even with the charge tank. Part of the problem with Zero is that their level of charge indicators are inaccurate. They show that you have more charge than you really do. It's been a problem for years and Zero has never fixed it. Here is a recent example: ruclips.net/video/GWR_wvgBHCA/видео.html
Several problems. First, the CCS charging standard starts with a minimum requirement of 200 volts. LiveWire and Energica are the only companies running high-voltage (300 + volts). Zero is around 110 volts. Second, charging at higher speeds introduces thermal management issues. Third, there are regulatory and certification issues in running high voltage battery packs because of safety issues. Fourth, slightly higher cost for electronics. LiveWire ONE was the first to solve all of these problems in 2019. Energica solved all these problems starting with their 2022 models. Energica has gone all in on DC Fast charging and now offers bikes with faster charging and more range than LiveWire ONE. For reasons I don't agree with, LiveWire made the marketing decision to take a step backwards to Level 2 at a time when the rest of the world ( I mean the electric car world) is going DC Fast.
If the company were to monitor the bike owner and apply power or withhold power... That would be outrageous. Do you even own the bike? Or does the nanny-state own the bike? I am interested in lw and can certainly afford it. I wouldn't even consider it if a company monitoring program was part of the deal. Hell nooooo😂
As for torque, you're incorrect when you say that no motorcycle comes close. My 2015 Triumph Rocket III Touring has 155 ft/lbs of torque at only 2,000 rpms. The new Rocket 3 has about 165 ft/lbs of torque but at a higher rpm. That's not 184 ft/lbs but you can't say ,"there's nothing that even comes close." That said, the Rockets are very heavy bikes, especially my Touring which weighs 906 lbs. (Most weight specs online for the Touring understate the weight because that's the weight of the 1st year the bike came out but things were added later that increased the weight.) Also, you clearly didn't consider the Boss Hoss. After all, it is a motorcycle and it has FAR more torque than the Del Mar.
I owned a 2005 502 Boss Hoss custom built for me by California Boss Hoss. I put 35,000+ miles on it in the three years that I owned it. I did extensive modifications to both the engine and transmission to increase acceleration and I won the trophy at the Laughlin River Run in 2007 for fastest production bike in the 1/8 mile drags. Runner up was my good friend Doug Whitson on a small-block Boss Hoss. No one has ever measured the HP and Torque on a Boss Hoss because the tire explodes on a chassis dyno. There was even a tragic accident where a dyno operator lost his leg trying. Horse power and torque numbers are meaningless if they can't be measured. In the case of Boss Hoss, if you strap it down do a dyno, it simply twist the frame and blows the tire. That's why I didn't mention it. As for the Rocket III, your torque numbers are fantasy: ruclips.net/video/TBa2QwCEV0g/видео.html
exactly, LW is being misleading about torque...they are probably measuring at the wheel instead of the motor so they are not apples to apples with other bikes...torque is never directly comparable because of gearing, but LW they just moved the goalposts...this bike takes off the line no faster than Zero fxs, which has only 6 less torque than LW1...all the guys going goo goo gaga over this bike are guys that just never rode electric before...lots of zero and energicas do 0-60 in roughly 3 sec....how can the LW 1 have 84 but LW2 have 192?...you think its the motor pivot, i'm not so sure what nobody talks about is ground clearance...the zero fxs allows you to curb jump around the city and park anywhere and avoid paying...even in pedal bike racks...I've done it all the time...the LW2 (flat track/scrambler) style and the streetfighter style don't provide the off-road ability of the super moto style....so basically ur getting a lil more highway capability and L2 charging for a lot more money...not that compelling to me yet...plus I'm in the camp that thinks the LW2 is ugly...and the graphics whether in blue or white don't suit the chassis motif
Don’t take Yammie Noob serious. He is emotional man when it comes to Harley. He has some kind of hate for all Harley-Davidson bikes. He is a very poor reviewer. He has to learn more.
So, I was curious and test drove the Livewire at my Harley dealer. I rode for a good 45 mins. After the test ride, the sales person asked me what I thought of the bike. And my answer was ...... if the bike was even priced at $10k I would never buy it, if the bike was priced at $5k I still would never buy it. If the bike was $3,500 I MIGHT possibly consider adding it to my garage of other motorcycles. What BORING bike. It's a food delivery scooter, with cool tech and great looks and quality build, nothing more. SO BORING....no gears to shift, no clutch, no interaction with the bike. BORING. No pistons or vibrations. No feedback, totally numb. I felt like I was paralyzed from the neck down riding this bike. So beautiful, but so BORING.
Your heart must not be pumping. The bike is quicker than anything in your garage. It's a wheelie monster. It eats gas sportbikes for lunch in the canyons and it has a track mode that drifts the back tire on dry pavement. Why are you so concerned about vibration and shifting?
Again: you cannot include selling as part of price. You don't control the market, especially for a fast evolving market, and more so for a market that's seen so suspiciously and even outright criticised, and your calculation are simply wrong. Your suggestion that Livewire should state a cost inferior to their selling one is idiotic, that's the perfect way to call the FTC in and get loads of lawsuits.
True cost of ownership over 36 months and 20,000 miles is the most important number and does not violate FTC rules. Tesla has been deducting fuel cost off the price of their cars for a dozen years on their website. LiveWire needs to copy Tesla.
I'm Australian and held off buying a new bike for some time waiting for the HD Livewire to come out! And when it did it was amazing 😍 everything I ever hoped for... Then I saw the absolutely insanely overpriced outrageous price they put on it, and decided I would have to wait until HD came back to reality and lowered the price .. then they refused and axed it 🤦🏼. HD is a Deadman walking at this point, and the rebranding to Livewire is fine but they don't sell Livewire in Australia at all 🤦🏼. To be honest I think I'm done with Harley entirely at this point, will sell my LOWRIDER S this year and go to a company that isn't a greedy snobby T-shirt manufacturer.
Excellent video as always but mainly, I just want to say, Thank You!! Because of you, I decided not to follow my plan of purchasing a BMW scooter and went with the 2022 LiveWire ONE. It was delivered about 3 weeks ago and I absolutely love it. You can't beat the smoothness, performance and the way it handles. Was hesitant only because of my age, 68 but in good shape. Been riding Spyders for the last 10 years, preparing myself for the golden years but with the LiveWire I'm going to put that on the back burner for awhile. Still have a F3-T for the long comfortable rides. Thanks again for all your info, really helped me make the right choice.
I'm 63. When I ride my LIveWire, I wish for younger days.
have fun !!!!!! good choice !!
If you're interested in any other background on my three quotes there, I can provide a bit. I don't think the first two quotes are contradictory (and no, I wasn't required to say anything at all to ride the bike. I wouldn't accept a test ride offer if it came with conditions that prevented me from saying my honest opinion). I truly believe the LiveWire One's lack of higher power Level 2 charging is a bummer. When I ride it and happen to park somewhere with 7 kW Level 2 chargers, it's a shame that I can't put much charge back into the battery in an hour or so lunch stop. If it had a 6 kW AC charger on board, then I could Level 2 charge for an hour at any shopping mall and get a half charge. That would be very useful. It's not a deal breaker, but it would be a nice addition to the bike.
Next, for the second quote, I also truly believe that the lack of Level 3 charging on the Del Mar is also a bummer. Being able to go from 20-80% in a half hour so is incredibly useful. I love that feature on the LiveWire One. Which brings me to my third quote, which I think pretty much stands on its own. 🙂
Micah, I am one of your fanboys. I've been reading, watching and enjoying your content for years. However, your statements about Level 2 charging on electric motorcycles are ridiculous. The fact is that public DC Fast chargers have a 25% out-of-service problem among many other serious issues. Public Level 2 chargers are way worse. Meanwhile, Tesla Superchargers are faster, 100% reliable and much easier to use.
No LiveWire ONE owner has ever, "Happen to park somewhere with a 7 KW Level 2 charger" and wished they could use it while having a lunch stop. It has simply never happened.
You have a giant platform. You need to call out the public charging buffoonery. Billions of dollars have been wasted already. Billions more will be wasted in the future. The Tesla Supercharger experience is completely different than DC Fast charging. The public is confused and does not know the difference. Your job is to educate, not to placate. Companies like Electrify America are ripping off the taxpayer and doing serious damage to EV adoption. Use your voice.
Here is the truth about the Del Mar and charging:
ruclips.net/video/xWodxZB92k4/видео.html
Thank you for methodically creating these technical videos. I've been closely following the Tesla community for several years, and the technical minded fan base really helps market the vehicles in the vacuum of Tesla marketing department. The owners and fans create and distribute compelling content that would simply not be available anywhere else. Even though Livewire has a marketing department, it may as well be non-existent. Early adopters need technical details. Not marketing photos of actors posing with a motorcycle. HD / Livewire has excellent engineering and the ability to dominate heavy electric motorcycling. WTF do they think they are doing right now?
I agree.
Basically they don't recycle Lithium. To convert ICE over to electric they will need to increase Battery construction by 2,000% ..
Excellent presentation, once again.
A big part of the reason I made a reservation for the Del Mar is because of the information you help to put out there, clarify and highlight.
I totally agree with your assessment of the importance of Level 3 charging for the urban rider. Fortunately, I live in a nice house in the GA mountains and have a garage that I can charge the Del Mar. I will use it mainly to rip and ride around the surrounding areas.
I rode the Livewire One yesterday at a demo ride and absolutely loved it. However, I don't love the price necessarily, but can afford it. I also thought the mirrors were horrible so that would have to be changed if I went with it
But all in all, I agree with you that the Del Mar is far superior outside of range and charging. Since I am not worried about those two, I will wait for the Del Mar. As you pointed out, it's designed by the same guy who designed my current motorcycle, the Sportster S. And I absolutely love that bike.
Fortunately, I also fit the Del Mar profile. I have a plug both at home and at work. I already had an electrician install a 220 volt plug for my Founders Addition. I can hardly wait!
95% of electric riders charge at night at home and know very well what they use their bikes for .. I have a zero fx for 7 years now ..and will buy an energica Experia for longrange and fast charging ..have fun !!!
As a LVWR shareholder, I am demanding LiveWire hire you as the head of their marketing team.
The beauty of being a RUclipsr is that I’m not held accountable for what I say. It’s much easier talking truth to power when you have nothing to lose.
@@freedomiseverything please let me know if you noticed this… on the day that LVWR went public, every major outlet that interviewed Jochen Zeitz asked the same question: “what is your target demographic?” Every outlet asked him that! IMO Jochen seemed uncomfortable when that question was asked and I dare say seemed like he didn’t have an answer for it. Did you see that too?
@@danewchampeen8722 I noticed that on the CNBC interview. As much as Jack hypes Jochen, he fumbled the opportunity to convey a message and instead had no answers to even softball opportunities. I was VERY disappointed in the media blitz.
@@danewchampeen8722 He did not know the target demographic and he did not know how to answer the question about what the bike cost. Jochen often has problems with communication and messaging. He needs to learn how to get the point across in five words or less when he is talking to reporters on TV. I agree with you. He was unrehearsed and unprepared. He blew it.
I knew this TV moment was coming and I knew the LiveWire marketing team was inept. So, I did a video about what Jochen should say on TV two months ago:
ruclips.net/video/8ReCgLqLj5E/видео.html
"We are developing and introducing products specifically targeted at young people. Younger customers want more than just freedom, adventure, closest to nature and joy. They also want environmentally responsible products and they love the latest new technologies.
Our new LiveWire Del Mar motorcycle fits the bill perfectly. It’s fully electric and it’s the first and only cloud connected motorcycle that does over-the-air-updates to ensure our customers enjoy the latest functionality and safety features. It even has hand controls to remotely operate, phone apps and an external USB-C port to run camera equipment.
We are inspiring a new generation of young riders who will push forward with her own agenda to make the planet a safe and sustainable place."
@@freedomiseverything Some EV Facts ruclips.net/video/B9Zu8NMOz2A/видео.html
Great video, and agreed.
HD treats the LW as a top secret, classified.
The company needs to engage with the customer base better to showcase and clarify its specs & abilities better.
I agree.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart for the great service you do communicating so professionally and concisely to LiveWire what they are missing. I have thought some of these points so many times (running costs instead of purchase cost, financing, repair and interval of costs, etc.). I think they should really watch your video and give you the Del Mar for free. The amount of strategic thinking, your eloquence and the extent of detail of all you mention is pretty mind-blowing. Most of all I enjoy your commitment to make one thing clear: Leading brands like LiveWire have the huge responsability of the survival of motorcycling because they rest on tons of capital that nobody else has or can spend on finding the Coca-Cola formula equivalent of two-wheeled EVs. Again, most appreciated for your dedication.
I appreciate very much that you took the time to give me encouragement. Ride free.
@@freedomiseverything Thank you. I wish you many many miles. Subscribed and bell activated.
The S2 is a definite step forward in the underpinnings of the motorcycle. It simplifies everything and makes a more cost effective bike to buy and run. The only step back there is the omission of L3 charging, which I agree is a huge blunder.
But the bike is a huge miss in the target audience. An urban commuter will get an electric bike because of cost and approachability. A true enthusiast will choose the non-compromising LW1 because it’s a better bike and the price difference isn’t enough to sway people with that much discretionary income anyway.
About all I think they got right is the styling. It’s really great looking. But it fails to move the needle in any other meaningful way into new markets.
Great video...very comprehensive...We do rarely get content like this now a day.
Interesting stuff, the safety issue is a biggie here in the UK it's pretty dangerous on bikes too but we do have more stringent tests and 2 basic levels of test plus optional advanced test that is a good idea to do for your own safety and lowers your insurance.
Cost of ownership over 3 years was very intersting to note, the biggest cost for electric being depreciation,
I usually buy 3 year old cars or bikes in cash to avoid that bit but the livewire one here in the UK is holding its value quite well.so far anyway, shame as I was hoping to buy one at 50% of the new price.
Maybe now that electricity is so expensive the novelty will wear off and prices will drop.
That's what I was hoping too
I wouldn't hold your breath.
@@freedomiseverything true, inflation will probably drive prices up regardless.
I really appreciate your commentaries on Livewire. I don't currently own an electric but hope to one day. Love the look of the Livewire One reminiscent of Early sportster, first bike I loved.
New Riders are buying Groms Kawasaki Ninja 300 Yamaha R-3 ECT
I'm Australian and held off buying a new bike for some time waiting for the HD Livewire to come out! And when it did it was amazing 😍 everything I ever hoped for... Then I saw the absolutely insanely overpriced outrageous price they put on it, and decided I would have to wait until HD came back to reality and lowered the price .. then they refused and axed it 🤦🏼. HD is a Deadman walking at this point, and the rebranding to Livewire is fine but they don't sell Livewire in Australia at all 🤦🏼. To be honest I think I'm done with Harley entirely at this point, will sell my LOWRIDER S this year and go to a company that isn't a greedy snobby T-shirt manufacturer.
Kwak wants your money 😂
The comment about the level 3 charger missing level 2 charger does make sense. If you can't find a level 3 charger... which face it, is rare to find, you are stuck with level 1 charging.
Level 2 chargers are much more common, so, the comment makes sense!
Speed kills. The open roads in the USA with higher speed limits are part of the problem. As you pointed out, rider education and tiered license is the missing pieces to safely navigate our highways. Ride Free
Zero motorcycles have the swingarm pivot point inline with their motors. This might be a reason why Livewire doesn’t mention it too much. Then, about Micah, I think he was talking about Livewire One having Level 2 AND Level 3 charging. It should be like the Energicas in my opinion.
Energica only charges 3 kW on Level 2. I am assuming DEL Mar will be 6.6 kW on Level 2, like a Zero with a Charge Tank option.
Great point about LW 1 on level 3 charging. Many RUclips reviews have no clue. I nowadays only watch real good motorcycle reviews magazine or companies. After this major concern about charging that you hinted I have started thinking about LW 1.
Big difference between motor torque and applied toque due to drive torque multiplication, It's why the Zero is slower. Owner First Strike 279/500
Cycle World strapped a LIveWire ONE to a dyno and got 92.8 HP and 74.2 ft/lbs of torque. On the same day, same dyno, they strapped down a Zero SR/F and got 100.17 HP and 146.45 ft/lbs of torque. The LiveWire ONE is 50 pounds heavier.
The LiveWire leaves the Zero for dead at all speeds. What's your explanation?
www.cycleworld.com/story/motorcycle-reviews/2020-harley-davidson-livewire-vs-zero-motorcycles-srf-premium/
@@freedomiseverything as mentioned elsewhere, the difference is gearing. The torque numbers from the dyno are divided by the gear ratio to get the torque at the motor. Because the gear ratio on the Zero is taller (smaller ratio), the resulting motor torque is higher for a given torque at the wheel. The difference is roughly 2X because the ratios between the LW1 and Zero differ by about 2X. In practice, the two bikes have nearly identical torques to the wheel.
Why should the American Tax Slaves have to pay Taxes so some one who does not want to pay for the Bike is forced to pay taxes to Subsidize the price for those who do want one?
Welcome to Commifornia .
To keep the Chinese from running away with our manufacturing jobs.
@@freedomiseverything Did you know that the Global Bankers took all of Americans Pension Funds and Invested it into Chinese Manufacturing? Big Companies Like General Motors and John Deere built State of the Art Factories with Robotics in China. They only have to build that Technolgy once in China then the Chinese will Reverse Engineer it and build their own.
One of the first Criminal Treasonous things that Bill Clinton did as President is sell Missile Guidance Technolgy to the Chinese for $500,000.00 That' really what Congress was trying to Impeach Clinton for but all they managed to get him in is lying about the BJ's ect that Monica Lowinski was giving him .
More Recently Bejing Biden got $3 Million in Bribes from the CCP and Hunter Biden lost much of the $1.2 Billion Hedge Fund that the CCP Let Hunter blow .
@@freedomiseverything Then the USA Blew up the Nordstream Pipeline that shipped Gas to heat Europe.. Now the USA is shipping Liquified Natural gas to Europe at a greater expense.. Now Russia sells all of their Oil and Gas to China and India who have basically no Emissions Regulations on Petrol Burners at all.
Yes China has the most EV's and EV Infrastructure in the World. Also China is Opening a Dozen New Dirty Coal Power Plants every year.. Obama Shut down many of the Coal Power plants in the USA Even though USA does have some never Clean Coal Technolgy Power plants..
I literally just want the HD branded livewire with FORWARD CONTROLS!
As a HD LiveWire ELW owner, I have almost zero interest in the Del Mar. DC charging is more important than Level 2 for road trips. I consistently get around 120-125 miles range on my spirited backroad adventures. The original LiveWire is overbuilt and representative of its original $30k price tag. If you're serious about an electric motorcycle, it's the one to get.
As far as I am aware, there is no regulatory push to get rid of gas powered motorcycles. Electric motorcycles are fast and fun for those who want them.
If the lack of proper clothing and protection has you concerned, take a look at the electric bicycle space.
I've been meaning to give electric bicycles a try.
www.lightinthebox.com/en/p/short-sleeve-cycling-jersey-with-shorts-triathlon-tri-suit-summer-dark-grey-mineral-green-red-and-white-bike-quick-dry-sports-mountain-bike-mtb-road-b_p9021133.html?currency=USD&litb_from=paid_adwords_shopping&sku=1_672386%7C2_285&country_code=us&adword_mt=&adword_ct=&adword_kw=&adword_pos=&adword_pl=&adword_net=x&adword_tar=&adw_src_id=2907233386_18026406947__&gclid=Cj0KCQjwkOqZBhDNARIsAACsbfKLWfwSclnLakcgWHXkDsTpGIX4Jct7Z0O1mX-O-ex5wUI37rfvvDUaAtK8EALw_wcB
Did you pay $29,000 for the Live Wire.. Seems I read that they sold 400 Livewires tha last quarter of 2022 .. HD Lost Millions on the Livewire because they sold so few of them, they never recovered their engineering and tooling costs..
Wow! Ive never seen a Livewire hit piece before.
I am not young, I've never liked Harleys. I sold my 2012 VStrom back in 2014 and never looked at another motorcycle till this year when I went for a test ride on a Zero. I bought the Zero S after testing multiple Zero's and the motorcycle is great but Zero support, well I mean ZERO SUPPORT says everything.... The Del Mar is the only Livewire (Harley) that's ever caught my eye. I only have 2600 miles on my Zero since July 2022 but I think the Del Mar has the improvements I'd like from my Zero S. I don't want/need a super fast bike. I want something fun and efficient that charges at a decent speed (
Thanks for watching!...
Thanks for calling out Micah Toll on his inconsistent claims, he has been playing games with various brands like this... From article titles to reviews where he forgets what he reviewed last week which conflicts with his current reviews.
Yeah, but he got the first ride... ;^(
I have to honestly say as a live wire owner the team behind the LiveWire are the worst marketing team in the history of motorcycles. I also have to agree that putting that guy in the suit with the taped up leg was trying to appeal to guys who work in offices that have to wear suits and then on their lunch breaks they can takeoff on their lifewires for a quick thrill
Without the smell of gas on them they can go right back to the office in downtown New York on Wall Street and get right back to work just put it in the garage in the downtown parking area and you’re good to go
The fundamental problem is that the engineering and design team at Harley-Davidson produced the most incredible motorcycle in 100 years, and all the marketing people could see was that it was electric.
@@freedomiseverything slow down on the koolaid lol
Guys please help me find the best option and your suggestions about it please.
I got an option in front of me, whether to buy a used or a new Livewire One.
•Used 2020 Harley Davidson livewire one for $17,500 have run 620miles which is in good condition.
I think the price is reduced because of depreciation and it lost its 2year warranty .
OR
•Buy a new 2023 Livewire One for $22,799.
Guys please help me make a good decision because you all know livewire one Better than me.
Please give me your suggestions
Some Please help this man
Buy the HD Livewire. It's probably a first strike (first 500 built). As far as I know, there are no hardware differences between the two. It'll be a collector's item when ev motorcycles catch on. Future classic...
The good news is that you have two great options. I would go with the 2023 LiveWire ONE because you will continue to get the latest software updates.
@@freedomiseverything Will my first strike not get software updates? 🤔
@@electrifyeverything5482 Check with LiveWire, but, I don't think there is any ongoing development for the software on the HD LiveWire. It is what it is. In my opinion, you need to get regular updates to handle DC Fast charger compatibility and things like that.
How do we get the vp of sales at Harley to watch this video!?
So:
Livewire misses to delivery communication.
Zero misses to delivery a product.
And press talks about the new Zero [I cannot remember the name], their new "adventure" bike, repeating their presentation without challenging them and calling it the best eMC.
Still no DC charging.
And I'm more impressed that a company controlled by Harley-Davidson has communication issues...
Good analysis, however, the author is incorrect about Level-2 charging availability in urban areas. L-2 chargers are far more common than L-3 chargers and L-2 is fast enough to charge to 80% in 75 minutes... perfect for lunchtime charging.
20% to 80% in 75 minutes. 2.5 hours 0% to 100%.
Level 2 chargers are much slower for cars than they are for motorcycles. If there’s a car on a level two charger, you’re going to be waiting a long time.
So if I paid $316.00 Per month for 48 months for the Live-wire $15,191.00 + $2,280 = 17,471 paid but I can sell it back for $10,000 Then I can use the bike for 4 years for $5,181.00 + $2,280 = $7,461 That would be a great deal if you put a lot of miles on it. I live in Michigan where most people don't ride their bikes for 5 months per year because of snow and cold .. For me that's more like 3 months..
Seems you told the Insurnace is cheap .. All the same you would have to have Full Coverage Insurance.
Oppps I forgot the downpayment . So now I have paid $7,461.00 and have no bike . I paid $7,400 or my Yamaha FZ-07 and I still have it and am still riding it 6 years later. I bought it in 2017. Now it's like my gas is for Free because I don't have any payments to make ..
I like your cost calculation at the end of the presentation. I did the same for my EV's, both cars and motorcycles. People complain about high EV prices because they do not understand total cost of ownership.
I agree. However, it is LiveWire's job to educate them.
Of the 10 million motorcycles in Japan, I'd like to know the cc rating of those. I'd think a much larger majority of bikes are over 400cc in the US. I'd like to see a continuing education requirement for a motorcycle license, or proof of advanced riding class before you are able to renew your license. The more training I take, the more I mistakes I see other riders making all the time putting their lives at risk simply by having too large of an ego and not wanting anymore training.
I agree. Rider training is the key to safety.
I am looking into buying an electric bike in the UK and came across your video, I have to agree with most of your conclusions. Harley does not make it easy for the buyer, and the cost over here is not low enough to persuade. Energica seem to be currently, (sic), ticking most of the boxes. Thanks for the independent, informative videos 👍👍
You're in luck. LiveWire just rolled out in the UK 10 days ago. Here is a video of the press introduction in London at The Bike Shed.
ruclips.net/video/cy6Q-exu6Fs/видео.html
I assume that you're going to see the same big price cut that we got in the USA.
I agree with all of your points except for having a third party nanny system deciding whether or not you "deserve" to use the full capacity of your vehicle. I agree with possibly gatekeeping the purchase with safety courses but once the money has been exchanged I don't want to hear your opinion on my riding.
When I bought a Motorcycle in 2017 at age 57 A Yamaha would not let me ride the bike away from the Dealership with out a Motorcycle Endorsment .. I had to take it home on a trailer..
same shit, different pile
Many years ago, I had two young sons. Just like you do now.
When your boys grow-up, they will read everything you ever posted on the Internet. Just like my boys did.
Will your boys be proud? Or will they think that you traded their future for a lie?
facebook.com/photo/?fbid=141707731335662&set=ecnf.100064893082156
I see that a Lawyer in Panama Shot two Eco Protesters that had the road blocked. They were Protesting the re-Opening of a Copper Mine.
What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?
This video is stone-cold brilliant. You’ve got it crushed, man.
One thing the CEO did right was to spin off LiveWire from Harley. The chrome-pipe push-rod crowd can’t do electric right, so it needs to be its own company. What’s remarkable to me is how quickly LiveWire came up with this exceptional Del Mar design. I mean, where did these engineers come from - did they hire a bunch of guys from Tesla? They re-invented motorcycle design taking full advantage of the electric power-train, and I don’t see how the push-rod guys could’ve done that. I reserved mine first day. Their marketing bunch, though, is lagging way behind engineering - as you made clear. I hope a new marketing group is brought in. They need a group that is a lot more technical than this first bunch that just focused on fluff. Or, they could pull a Tesla and just fire their marketing staff and let the customers do the marketing.
Your insight on safety is so good. The Tesla Safety Score actually makes safer drivers, so I hope LW does something like that - along with the other safety innovations you suggested. Very smart commentary.
I think we should get a Del Mar out to Munro and Associates for a series of tear down videos. Or, you should do a tear down!!
No mate the stupidest thing they did was spin the electric bikes off from HD. The chrome-pipe pish-rod crowd is dead and has been for nearly a decade, sales are plummeting and HD can't run a profit or get younger customers to buy old air cooled cruisers. HD could have been the TESLA of motorcycles and the dinosaurs would have still bought their old cruisers as they died off. But HD threw the baby out with bath water, like usual. What future is in gas bikes 🤔🤣, the future is electric and HD had now admitted that they are a brand resigned to go extinct.
Electric motorcycles won’t sell under the Harley brand. Innovation comes from the upstarts. Tesla is an upstart. LiveWire is an upstart. Both will grow and thrive. GM and Harley will die slow deaths. Stranded assets. Let them die.
maybe they should just hire you to properly promote their bikes lol. also where can I find documentation about the potential ban of registering ice vehicles by 2040? I'd like to share that with people I know who don't think it'll ever happen.
The California Air Resources Board (CARB) passed emission regulations that retroactively pulled all semi-trucks off the roads in California that were built before 2010. They won't let you buy a license plate. Additionally, they levy heavy fines on out-of-state trucks that were built before 2010 and try and drive on California roads.
ww2.arb.ca.gov/sites/default/files/truckstop/pdfs/truck_bus_booklet.pdf
California has banned the sale of gas cars after 2035.
www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/23320166/california-gasoline-ban-electric-vehicle-car-diesel-climate
I am speculating that CARB may try and do the same thing to cars and motorcycles that they have already done to heavy diesel. Make the ban retroactive.
I'd love to own a Livewire over any Harley. I thought it's 17k.
The LiveWire Del Mar sells for $16,999.00.
@@freedomiseverything I bet it'll be double in EU
Definitely for someone to say ice bikes cost more to maintain than an electric tells me they never had an electric bike long enough until it has maintenance issues.. get a few bad cells or have to replace a battery ! You’ll spend a lot of money at once ! Which will surpass all the lil maintenance issues you have to deal with on an ice .. getting a battery replacement or repair is like getting a new ice engine and you’ll more likely need a new battery way way thousands of miles before you’ll need a new engine . Ev battery will probably not get you 100k mikes ! Ice bike can easy !..
I guess I've haven't owned an electric bike long enough to have issues...
Japan is 3.84% the size of the US with 20 plus percent more motorcycles. In a culture with so many motorcycles, vehicle drivers are used to seeing and being aware of them unlike the US where they're a novelty. In Japan filtering is legal making it safer for bikes at stop lights, signs or traffic allowing the biker to put vehicles between them and a driver that fail to stop. Cellphones cannot be used in vehicles unless is stopped. The fine is around $700 if caught, however, criminals charges may result if your in an accident. All the technology in the world does not stop a distracted driver on a cell phone killing a biker. Discount the bikers who bar hop, do tricks on the street or are speed thrill seekers, and in addition to ban all cellphone use in vehicles, we couold get that number down to 2.
I agree.
lol those torque numbers are absurd..
I checked three different sources at LiveWire. They say the number is correct. I agree with you. It's an absurd number. Let's see it strapped to a dyno...
It’s called gearing. Torque is a meaningless number on an electric motor because you can design basically whatever torque you want, and adjust the gear ratio to get the desired output torque.
So the S2 just uses less gear reduction at the rear sprocket. It’s a good system because you have a single gear reduction stage unlike the LW1’s two stage, which makes things cheaper, simpler, and more reliable.
@@jmacknet2 I assume that they are measuring the torque on the back tire and I assume that the gearing is good for 100+ mph.
@@freedomiseverything torque is traditionally measured at the motor crankshaft and not the wheel, and I’m certain it is here too. No way you could put nearly 3X the torque to the tire without a cloud of smoke.
I did some digging and the final drive looks to be in the neighborhood of 4.5:1 like the Zero SR/F. That’s about 2X as tall as a gas bike in second gear, which would mean a gas equivalent torque is roughly 2X less than the 178 ft*lb spec (or about 89 ft*lb). That’s definitely still on the torquey side of the motorcycle world, but not as extreme as the headline grabbing spec sheet would make you believe.
New York if you have a garage in a building there’s a plug to charge
Nope.
"But ownership can be a hassle if you can’t charge at home or work. For many New Yorkers, who live in apartment buildings, it’s not feasible. And finding charging alternatives is difficult in the Bronx, Staten Island and Queens where there are far fewer public charging stations."
gothamist.com/news/electric-car-ownership-remains-novelty-in-nyc-as-infrastructure-is-slow-to-come-online
nope...i'm in a major east coast city...i live in an older 12 story highrise...whole underground parking has only 2 outlets...had to get special permission to charge there from mgmt...and then move back to my parking spot with my car...building changed mgmt company, bike got towed...tow company damaged bike...what would happen if 20 people in the building had bikes?...work downtown in a new office building...whole underground parking deck had 5 outlets...had to ask permission to charge...building wanted to charge me...the only use case that makes sense for electric bikes is urban...yet only suburban and rural can easily charge without hassle
I’ve argued since immigrating to the U.S. that it’s too easy to get a driving license, and stupid to allow riders to ride the biggest, fastest bike without any training or even the skills necessary to ride a bicycle or be a pedestrian; but then, people are allowed to walk around with concealed guns here, so… shouting into a gale, isn’t it.
It’s called freedom dummy. It is rarely convenient or safe. The term “Wild West” exists for a reason.
From 20% to 80% it takes only 70 mins to be charged
Nope.
Level 2 charging is 75 minutes from 20% to 80%. In your neighborhood, most of the L2 chargers are outside on the street. So, you're going to park a Del Mar outside on the street in NYC unattended? Good luck with that...
No level 2 charging for longer battery life!
Not necessarily a fight with you but I think people worry about the charging a little too much. How often are you really going to pull up to a charging station on 0? There's likely a place near by where you can charge
I agree with you.
disagree...as somebody who has commuted with a zero...i can't tell you how hard it is to find ways to charge for city dwellers who don't have a single family house with a garage
@@jonathansaunders6697 have you used the plug share app
But let's outlaw gas powered vehicles yeeeeey!!!
Top notch !!
Tesla won't let you use the Self Driving mode if you are a Bad Driver.. Now that's a special kind of stupid right there. The whole idea behind self driveling cars and Trucks is to take the human element out of driving .
I totally disagree with that. Humans need to keep doing basic tasks like doing their own driving .
As far as Driving goes.. German Drivers are very good Drivers and Italian Drivers can be very bad. The Big difference is that Germany has a far more Comprehensive Drivers Training Program,
del mar is in the same category as the zero fx .. I own one for 7 years ..3 break pads 2 tires .. 2 belts (own fault playing too much )its worth 2k now so I lost 8k plus 1k maintenance in 7 years .. but Delmar is way better !!
I think Micah was just observing that there are not enough level 3 chargers out there, and ideally it would have both level 2 and 3, like Energica does. Your attack on him is pretty unfair and cost you some credibility. Others have addressed your torque comment. 0-60 times are similar on Livewire One and Del Mar, at least according to the guy that you trashed.
Energica does not have "real" Level 2 charging. It maxes out at 3 kW or about a 5 hour charge. Not only are there plenty of DC Fast Chargers, but by the end of the year, Tesla will allow DC Fast charging on its Supercharger network. Problem solved.
The 0-60 time on LIveWire ONE (3.0 sec) is limited by the wheelie control. The only reason Del Mar might be slighter slower is that it looks like it may have a higher center of gravity. I'll bet you could get faster times by strapping down the forks on Del Mar.
I admit the torque claim is unbelievable. However, I have a founders addition on order. The first thing I am going to do it strap it to a dyno and see for myself.
I did not trash Micah. In fact, he is looking like a pretty smart guy for figuring out how to get the first ride on a Del Mar.
They should use the same system Zeromotorcycles use to charge for 1 hour on level 2.
Zero does not have any system that can charge 0% to 100% in one hour. The real number is 2.5 hours best case. LiveWire ONE can charge 0% to 100% in one hour. There are lots of videos to prove it, including some of mine.
@@freedomiseverything look at the S. I can charge 0 to 95% in an hour. The Del mar 20-80% in 75 minutes. The bikes are comparable in range
@@el3ctronic Show me a link to a video where the Zero SR/S is charging from 0% to 100% in less than 2.5 hours. It can't come close, even with the charge tank. Part of the problem with Zero is that their level of charge indicators are inaccurate. They show that you have more charge than you really do. It's been a problem for years and Zero has never fixed it. Here is a recent example:
ruclips.net/video/GWR_wvgBHCA/видео.html
I do not understand why they cannot offer all forms of charging ? Cost ? Tech ?
Several problems. First, the CCS charging standard starts with a minimum requirement of 200 volts. LiveWire and Energica are the only companies running high-voltage (300 + volts). Zero is around 110 volts. Second, charging at higher speeds introduces thermal management issues. Third, there are regulatory and certification issues in running high voltage battery packs because of safety issues. Fourth, slightly higher cost for electronics.
LiveWire ONE was the first to solve all of these problems in 2019. Energica solved all these problems starting with their 2022 models. Energica has gone all in on DC Fast charging and now offers bikes with faster charging and more range than LiveWire ONE. For reasons I don't agree with, LiveWire made the marketing decision to take a step backwards to Level 2 at a time when the rest of the world ( I mean the electric car world) is going DC Fast.
@@freedomiseverything Thank you !
If you own 4 motorcycles your cost per mile will go way up if you lease because you are putting miles on other bikes..
You lost me with the "hold of on the power until they portray proper handling"
It's my bike, I bought it. Don't restrict anything on my bike. 😡
I understand completely. However, untrained riders are ruining it for the rest of us.
If the company were to monitor the bike owner and apply power or withhold power... That would be outrageous. Do you even own the bike? Or does the nanny-state own the bike? I am interested in lw and can certainly afford it. I wouldn't even consider it if a company monitoring program was part of the deal. Hell nooooo😂
Meh. Livewire Harley version still my dream bike lol
As for torque, you're incorrect when you say that no motorcycle comes close. My 2015 Triumph Rocket III Touring has 155 ft/lbs of torque at only 2,000 rpms. The new Rocket 3 has about 165 ft/lbs of torque but at a higher rpm. That's not 184 ft/lbs but you can't say ,"there's nothing that even comes close." That said, the Rockets are very heavy bikes, especially my Touring which weighs 906 lbs. (Most weight specs online for the Touring understate the weight because that's the weight of the 1st year the bike came out but things were added later that increased the weight.) Also, you clearly didn't consider the Boss Hoss. After all, it is a motorcycle and it has FAR more torque than the Del Mar.
I owned a 2005 502 Boss Hoss custom built for me by California Boss Hoss. I put 35,000+ miles on it in the three years that I owned it.
I did extensive modifications to both the engine and transmission to increase acceleration and I won the trophy at the Laughlin River Run in 2007 for fastest production bike in the 1/8 mile drags. Runner up was my good friend Doug Whitson on a small-block Boss Hoss.
No one has ever measured the HP and Torque on a Boss Hoss because the tire explodes on a chassis dyno. There was even a tragic accident where a dyno operator lost his leg trying.
Horse power and torque numbers are meaningless if they can't be measured. In the case of Boss Hoss, if you strap it down do a dyno, it simply twist the frame and blows the tire. That's why I didn't mention it.
As for the Rocket III, your torque numbers are fantasy:
ruclips.net/video/TBa2QwCEV0g/видео.html
exactly, LW is being misleading about torque...they are probably measuring at the wheel instead of the motor so they are not apples to apples with other bikes...torque is never directly comparable because of gearing, but LW they just moved the goalposts...this bike takes off the line no faster than Zero fxs, which has only 6 less torque than LW1...all the guys going goo goo gaga over this bike are guys that just never rode electric before...lots of zero and energicas do 0-60 in roughly 3 sec....how can the LW 1 have 84 but LW2 have 192?...you think its the motor pivot, i'm not so sure
what nobody talks about is ground clearance...the zero fxs allows you to curb jump around the city and park anywhere and avoid paying...even in pedal bike racks...I've done it all the time...the LW2 (flat track/scrambler) style and the streetfighter style don't provide the off-road ability of the super moto style....so basically ur getting a lil more highway capability and L2 charging for a lot more money...not that compelling to me yet...plus I'm in the camp that thinks the LW2 is ugly...and the graphics whether in blue or white don't suit the chassis motif
Don’t take Yammie Noob serious. He is emotional man when it comes to Harley. He has some kind of hate for all Harley-Davidson bikes. He is a very poor reviewer. He has to learn more.
So, I was curious and test drove the Livewire at my Harley dealer. I rode for a good 45 mins. After the test ride, the sales person asked me what I thought of the bike. And my answer was ...... if the bike was even priced at $10k I would never buy it, if the bike was priced at $5k I still would never buy it. If the bike was $3,500 I MIGHT possibly consider adding it to my garage of other motorcycles. What BORING bike. It's a food delivery scooter, with cool tech and great looks and quality build, nothing more. SO BORING....no gears to shift, no clutch, no interaction with the bike. BORING. No pistons or vibrations. No feedback, totally numb. I felt like I was paralyzed from the neck down riding this bike. So beautiful, but so BORING.
Your heart must not be pumping. The bike is quicker than anything in your garage. It's a wheelie monster. It eats gas sportbikes for lunch in the canyons and it has a track mode that drifts the back tire on dry pavement.
Why are you so concerned about vibration and shifting?
energica Experia best commuting e bike ..finally some range ... .. but yeah live wire is cooler !!!
Again: you cannot include selling as part of price.
You don't control the market, especially for a fast evolving market, and more so for a market that's seen so suspiciously and even outright criticised, and your calculation are simply wrong.
Your suggestion that Livewire should state a cost inferior to their selling one is idiotic, that's the perfect way to call the FTC in and get loads of lawsuits.
True cost of ownership over 36 months and 20,000 miles is the most important number and does not violate FTC rules.
Tesla has been deducting fuel cost off the price of their cars for a dozen years on their website. LiveWire needs to copy Tesla.
@@freedomiseverything Selling is not included in cost of ownership. Stop doing that, especially because you don't know the resale value.
I'm Australian and held off buying a new bike for some time waiting for the HD Livewire to come out! And when it did it was amazing 😍 everything I ever hoped for... Then I saw the absolutely insanely overpriced outrageous price they put on it, and decided I would have to wait until HD came back to reality and lowered the price .. then they refused and axed it 🤦🏼. HD is a Deadman walking at this point, and the rebranding to Livewire is fine but they don't sell Livewire in Australia at all 🤦🏼. To be honest I think I'm done with Harley entirely at this point, will sell my LOWRIDER S this year and go to a company that isn't a greedy snobby T-shirt manufacturer.