Will going from a cadence of 150 to 190 make you overstride less when running?
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- Опубликовано: 17 окт 2024
- I very often hear people say that long strides increase the risk of overstride and that if you shorten your steps, you will automatically have less overstride. This applies both to people who come to my running technique studio and, especially, to comments I read when the advice to reduce an overstride is almost always: "take shorter steps".
But is that really the case? That taking shorter steps will automatically reduce an overstride?
You'll find the answer in this video.
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Fredrik Zillén is an running technique specialist that has over the years helped thousands of runners to a more efficient running technique - from the slowest beginners to members of the Swedish national team in running and triathlon who have participated in the World Championships and the Olympics. Fredrik also writes articles on effective running technique for Runner's World magazine.
Following the success of Fredrik Zilléns online course in Swedish, he has also produced an updated and improved version in English. You can find it here: www.fredrikzil...
You find the Swedish version at: www.fredrikzil...
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I used to run to 185spm but now I run 175spm and still land under the center of mass. I just let my feet dangle back and keeping my body relaxed, not leaning too much forward and keeping a good shoulder - hips rhythm while focusing on my core for most of the run. When I feel like I am losing my form I stop for few seconds and retake again. I learned all these on this channel. Thank you Fredrik !
Best running form advice on RUclips.
I guess problem is (as you demonstrated in video) when people focus on really short steps sometimes they can end up sucking themselves down to the ground. Then the only way to move forward at the same pace is to reach out with the foot even more to drag themselves along. So using bigger muscles expending more energy rather than utilising free elastic energy and creating some ‘air’ time or bounce so can maintain cadence and stride length.
Great videos!! - thanks for taking the time to make these in English!!!
I am not sure your examples are valid. The posture of you running with shorter strides was strange; it was like you were shuffling your legs while sitting on a stool. No wonder you were over striding. If you use the same posture in both cases, the result might be different.
I think you are both correct. I think he’s just trying to dispel the myth that increasing the cadence is the automatic fix for over striding - which may not always be the case. Surely, you can still have a higher cadence and be loading correctly or a lower cadence and over striding.
So if you’re over striding, increasing the cadence might not be the best cue to fix it - and is definitely not the end all be all solution.
While your criticism is valid, I think it's guesswork at best to claim that cadence reduces overstride rather than reduced overstride resulting in higher cadence
I thought the answer seemed to be yes but knew it had to be no because the answer is ALWAYS no on this channel, lol.
Love your channel, this one was somewhat unclear and maybe contradicting. In a previous podcast, more height implied less energy expenditure becasue of the enhanced ability to heel kick as opposed to slogging or shuffling. Can you please clarify?
To run more mindfully, (focusing on one form-focus point at a time; eg: stretch at the heel, mid foot strike, etc), I find it easier to slow down my cadence.
I’m 6’1” and I really run above 162-165 cadence, and when I try to deliberately increase my cadence it always feels forced, increasing heart-rate and perceived effort. I run more naturally with greater enjoyment when I’m actually not even thinking about cadence.
Those two examples have hugely different form, though. Would someone who lopes about like your slow cadence stride really switch to that insanely awkward high cadence stride?
Of course, you're right that it COULD increase overstriding, but I could be the Queen of England. What are the actual odds that a more typical change from a natural 160 up to 170 or 180 would actually result in more overstriding?
Then, we'd also need to know what are the odds that increasing cadence reduces overstride (rather than the other way around).
Which camera/drone do you use to take such great moving images?
Does going from a 180 cadence to 225 make you faster? It has for me.
(16mph to 22mph) my stride only varies from 1.1 to 1.4 , I’m 5’6” tall. I’m 48yrs old & now run a faster 200m than in high school, (26sec)
Hey, which threadmill are you using?
So, this is a classical problem of cause and effect. We don't want overstriding, but what is the cause?
Running is notorious difficult to analyze.
Still, I believe that if you ask a person that overstrides to slightly increase the stride frequency, you will see a general improvement.
Never had these type of discussions with other runners. I simply accept my cadence that varies depending on my speed. I am actually more concerned about my running technique. A good one applied to high and low cadence.
Damn... the reason for this is hard to capture... but: If I shorten my stride, I also shorten my up and down oscillation so I shorten the range of motion where my leg is pushing off diagonally upwards.
And if I don't use this optimal range and drive, I'm not able to lean forwards in the same angle, like it is changing pitch and power of my flight. It's like pitch and power is more important than naked frequency therefore.
What's your ave cadence and stride length on a 5k compared to half or full marathon? Could be an interesting video your results
my Dad when he ran more, injuries, he used to overstride in begging and due to heights being that of some taller elite runners 6 foot 1 inch/185.5 cm have a long stride but fixed it so he landed under his body mass with a long stride by upping the foot strikes for his run by using fast songs, classic punk/new wave and classic hard rock songs. Now my body being like an elite Marathoner and 5 foot 2/157.5 cm I had a short stride and until 2009 where I had some sore hip pain from running with my short stride, I realized I was running with not enough mass under the body since I started but only when in a flow like state where I felt like I was in a trance before 2009 (according to my dad when he watched me run), would I run better having seen some footage of my running somebody took during a running event a Ragnar Relay back when Seko or Summit watch company promoting a new sports GPS watch every other year was the main sponsor besides Nodic Track. I fixed my issue in 2009 by trying to hit my but with my heel on slow recovery runs after the long day and it forced my running to be less upright with running so I could not use my poor stride becuse if I did my old stride I would either fall or have pain in my legs, mainly knees near the end/after or arch locking during run because of the breaking.
This seems like a classic case of messing up correlation and causation; perhaps training to reduce overstride is what increases cadence, which makes sense since you use less time breaking/slowing down, rather than the cadence itself reducing overstride
So how do i correct overstriding ?
Have you tried drills, e.g. A/B- skips or ankle step overs?
I try to not let my foot spend it's vacation in front of my knee. As far as I'm concerned it has no buisiness being there doing nothing. I really don't know if that's wrong (probably) or if its a good idea. I don't run around looking at my feet and I don't try to shorten my step. Instead i try to focus on having a sharp angle in my arms and drive with my elbows instead of my hands, i kind of like it that way, and I also find it easier to drive with my knees when i have my arms in a sharper angle. I recently filmed myself at a very slow pace where I thought the risk was bigger for me to move my feet like I'm kicking a football but as it turned out I had no idea how I ran. My foot was pretty much under my knee the whole time. Right or wrong? I'm not the one to tell but I certainly didn't overstride at low paces as I though and I landed midfoot and not heel even though I was 100% sure I was a heel runner at low paces and moved towards midfoot when I increased the pace. I was a bit surprised how wrong I was. To be honest I had no idea until I saw the video in slow motion. I probably watched one or two of your videos before I decided to take a good look. I'll never regret that! You are spot on in every video.
😯 What is an observational fact is that higher cadence means a runner will have a shorter period of time between each foot placement, resulting in a LOWER CHANCE of an average runner BEING ABLE to overstride. That does not mean a runner might not change their form to inadvertently force/cause an overstride. But, that's not common. In fact, it is rare.
Worse yet, you even site the physics of higher cadence resulting in less vertical movement, which means the force is... forward and less vertical.
And, the only way that can happen is...
a) ...if there is less overstriding (called breaking force)
...and/or...
b) ...if more of the foot landing is under the center of gravity allowing for a more horizontal push off.
Plus, the results from a population of one runner does not reflect anything as a basis.
I don't know of anyone that says increasing cadence ALWAYS decreases overstriding. It's confusing... because you've created a problem that doesn't exist, then have a solution that the physics you note says you increase the cadence. 🤷♂️
One leg should overstride while the other can take short fast steps thereby proving the flop method of swinging the feet forward will greatly simplify the explanation.
The best way to increase cadence is to decrease vertical displacement?
Let the decrease in vertical displacement be a consequence of increase cadence, rather than your focus. To increase cadence it's not easy, because no matter how you are going to do it it is going to feel unnatural. Still there are several ways/tricks to do it. As a coach, what has worked best with my athletes is to focus on your arms (they have the same cadence) instead of your legs: reduce the swinging and keep them closer to your torso; that is going to make it easier and more natural to increase arms' cadence. The legs will follow by themselves.
I am 71 years old and run easy runs at 181-185 cadence. That's just natural for me. Vertical displacement is one thing that happens with poor running form to decrease cadence. I agree with stefanoviviani6064 that bringing your arms in closer and shorter will help. But there are also times, finishing kick for example, that you want longer arm swing. Then, if done right, you will increase your cadence and stride length without over striding. If your running economy is overall good, your cadence will be where it should be.
Adopting a ridiculously crappy form when increasing your cadence doesn't prove shortening strides will increase overstriding! The only thing it proves is that you're not rigorous with logic and experimentation!
I forced myself into 180 strides per minute and I am stuck at 20 min per 5k, seems that I am unable to lower the timing. Also I find it very difficult to run at 4 min/k since I could not relax. The problem is when I take longer steps I start noticing my knee after a short time...
P.S. I am a heel strider converted to front foot strider and know I land on my whole (middle) foot. I converted forced by the fact that I destroyed my right knee by being a heel strider and low cadence runner.
150 is about my 10 minutes per mile cadence. 190 is around my 4 min 36 sec pace.
Does going from a cadence…
Please 🙏
Shout out to the camera man 😎
A lot of pro runners will do their easy runs at under 160 cadence and definitely not overstride, whereas you will never see a pro run their easy runs at 190 cadence.
Just say if HIGHER IS GOOD OR LOWER IS GOOD💀💀 LIKE LONG STRIDES ARE BETTER OR SHORT DTRIDES ARE BETTER
Sanity at last. But why are people prepared to pay coaches who tell these untruths as if they stop to think for themselves they will see that most of the stuff coaches pedal as fact are in fact utter nonsense.