You should NOT land directly under your body when running
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- Опубликовано: 15 дек 2022
- Among runners, it is often said that you should land just below your body. But that's really not the case. This is partly because many people disagree about what is meant by "landing" and that the optimum point to put your foot down depends, among other things, on how fast you are running.
Here I try to explain how it works.
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Fredrik Zillén is an running technique specialist that has over the years helped thousands of runners to a more efficient running technique - from the slowest beginners to members of the Swedish national team in running and triathlon who have participated in the World Championships and the Olympics. Fredrik also writes articles on effective running technique for Runner's World magazine.
Following the success of Fredrik Zilléns online course in Swedish, he has also produced an updated and improved version in English. You can find it here: www.fredrikzillen.com
You find the Swedish version at: www.fredrikzillenonline.se
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After years of trolling the internet about running form etc, etc, etc... you've brought me back full circle and made me realise that I need to just run as is! Thank you and your content is refreshing and SENSIBLE!!!
Finally, some sensible and factual data explaining what I have been wondering and thinking about all the time over my last 55+ years of running.
You have answered an important question for many runners. When I watch slow motion videos of elite runners, many of them seem to land in front of their centers of mass--sometimes by a couple inches or more. That was very puzzling. What you have said makes lots of sense!
Amazing content. Thank you Fredrik...
This content is Gold! Thank you for making this video! :)
You deserve way more views!
Ignition timing is also set before top dead and max force will develop shortly after.☝
And there's also control by rpm to slightly change the timing
brilliant explanation
Another piece of puzzle filled in.
Very enlightening. Thanks
Subscribed
Nice information
Thanks for clarifying how complex the landing is during the running cycle. I've gotten the best results feeling a neutral contact while running, neither stubbing or clawing into the ground. A lot less blisters that way also! Haha.
Gostei muito das sua dicas, parabéns, gostaria de ver vídeos seu sobre fortalecimento para corredores.obrigado.
Great
🤣🤣🤣! Sometime knowing a little is worst then not knowing anything at all!
I like the fact that your foot should be under your center of mass when the maximum weight is on it! But wait a second! I would not be surprised if this is also depending on the speed at which you are running or maybe not. a slow runner will simply push up more than a fast runner which push more forward as he can travel more than a slow runner while his foot is on the ground. Do I have it right?
So there seem to be something in common to all runner no matter how fast you run which is where your foot is when the maximum weight is on it.
I try to keep my feet of the ground as much as I can that way I keep out of trouble! Is that the right approach? The stride should always be extremely dynamic no matter the speed you are running at? The stride length will vary when you run fast which mean that the muscles at the hip level work harder faster you run.
Great video! 👍👍👍
good info in the vid, here are my two cents on the "landing" thing.
I think you paused the clips a bit too early. I would count "landing" as "when your foot and leg are expected to support the weight and force of your next stride"
if you pause ALL of the clips at that point you will see the foot they launched from doing it's thing, and the same thing on the "landing" foot every time. If you ignore the foot the runner launched from, all of their posture looks like a casual step forward from a standing position. Like I said you have to ignore one leg, but it looks the same to me every time I pause it when their foot makes full contact and they "could launch"
Ah! This kind of explains why I feel that I land farther forward in higher stack shoes!
For some runners, shoes with a larger drop can result in more of a landing on the heel. This may be the case for you. But you should always be careful about saying: "This is how it will be for me, that means it will be this way for everyone else too". I myself land very clearly on the forefoot whether I have 0 drop or 10mm drop. This is exactly what I try to convey with my films. That different things can work differently for different runners, at different paces, at different distances and on different surfaces. Reality is more complex than black and white.
cool 🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤
How does footwear affect this - cushioned shoes vs minimal?
Du e så klurig😊. Det borde betyda att de vanliga filmverktygen inte är nåt vidare användningsbara.
Så man behöver alltså din analys🤓
i never heared that. honestly.
But isn't the backswing velocity and the recovery limb moment also a big factor. At least for me it is.
Fun fact cheetahs are landing way in front of their COM! This supports your argument.
I hear this claim very often. It could be because I do nothing else all day but listen to runners telling me how they have tried to adjust their running technique. As you say, there is much more than just the landing that determines how effective a running stride is. But I try to stick to one thing per video.
Interesting observation with the cheetahs. Of course they land in front of COM. Because, as I say in the video, the faster you run, the more okay it is to land a little further in front of the COM.
Do you train Olympic athletes?
Its weird watching footage and people trying to say the foot lands directly under you and they clearly are not. They will draw lines on the stills that are not correctly positioned to convince you
This makes intuitive sense, as do the graphs. Curious if you have a graph illustrating the relationship between optimal forward foot landing in front of the center of mass at varying paces for runners of varying heights?
Of course I have. Everything is in my software. Could possibly become a separate video a little further on. However, one should be a little careful about giving too precise details of what is "optimal". First of all, you have no way of knowing for yourself how far in front of the center of gravity you put your foot down if you don't have access to similar equipment as I do. It therefore has no practical significance. It's also a lot of things that are connected and sometimes it can be okay to not be "optimal" in a way where the suboptimal can provide another benefit that gives a greater positive effect, if you know what I mean. But I'll keep it in mind for future videos.
To accelerate We must push back ! and this will not make us fall as you say! (perhaps I have not understood correctly the meaning that you personally want to convey) , As a 24-year distance runner at a high level, everything changes according to the mechanics of each athlete,
I try to improve each individual things! What can be seen simply through the cameras does not necessarily mean that it is correct in practice!
We must bring our first contact with the ground with our foot as close as possible to our hip from below in order to reduce as much as possible to "carry" our body backwards, (maybe again I have not understood correctly everything that is mentioned)
Also Kenyans as you show in your videos landing way out of body mass does not mean it is correct ! most of them even have a bad running technique!
Okay, so the best in the world have inefficient running technique? How do you know that? Is it because you think you can see it or what do you base your reasoning on? Have you made any measurements or do you have any studies to refer to? Otherwise it is just your speculation. The margins are incredibly small among those who are the best in the world and what determines whether they win or end up in 25th place. That you claim that world record holders and winners of the Olympics are inefficient is unreasonable. And as far as I know, Zersenay Tadese has the best measured energy efficiency ever. He also puts his foot down slightly in front of his hip and his centre of gravity. But what are results in a laboratory versus your educated guesses?
I'm not saying you should put weight on your foot when it's way in front of your body. I'm saying that you "touch the ground" in front of your centre of gravity/hip, which in the minds of people working in biomechanics and sports science is what counts as "landing". That the pressure on the foot is greatest in midstance when the foot is under the body is a different matter than where you touch the ground.
But you also have measurements based on your own guesses through cameras! I see in practice the differences from rates of 6 minutes per kilometer up to 2.30/k!
o Zersenay Tadese was not measured based on the Running technique! But based on physiology, he had the best tolerance to the lactate threshold! Nothing to do with his technique!
There are still no studies that have been done on elite runners regarding their technique, only guesses based on what is seen visually! and yes being elit doesn't mean they all have good technique, I was in Kenya and saw all the elit running for a long time.@@SpringSnabbare
Very good video, its amazing this has to be thought to people I always felt this is a natural thing. But hey I know people who cant even throw a tennis ball.
Also the biggest misconception is that "forefoot" strike is optimal. Jeh maybe for short distance but anything else its most of the time is a bad technique.
Sorry, but it is incorrect to say that the maximum force (more precisely some sort of weighted average location) should not be behind you (stated after 1:12). The factor you are omitting is air resistance. The average force vector to maintain a pace is not vertical, but tilted slightly to cope with the wind. Speed and wind speed affect this a lot - the relative size of the component to deal with wind is typically between 1% and 10% in my data. Faster runners (and stronger winds) would make it higher.
So I'm a physics teacher track coach and your explanation doesn't make any sense to me. The force vector (wind resistance or not) should not be vertical or even slightly off of vertical. That would be doing a stationary vertical jump. You want as much of the force applied horizontally as possible (even if you were in a vacuum). The only upward force needed is to keep you off the ground long enough for the switch to take place while your next leg cycling through, ready to hit with the next, mostly horizontal force.
@@andrewdaw6050 With all due respect you are not thinking of this like a physicist. If you are moving horizontally at a constant speed, Newton tells you the average force on your body is zero. This force is made of three parts - (1) gravity, fixed, large, vertically downwards (2) air resistance, much smaller, roughly horizontal (3) the force of your feet on the ground. Now work out which way your force on the ground needs to point!
@@liamroche1473 the downward force needed to counter act gravity is the same running as when standing. A little more because you do have some airtime. Yes when you hit top speed, the horizontal force is zero. But that is because there is a large opposing force.
Think about a sports car going a constant 100mph. The net force is 0 but that doesn't mean the engine isn't producing a lot of power. How much of that is vertical?
That's not to mention anything of the acceleration phase where by necessity there must be a net horizontal force and it will be directly proportional to accelerator
@@andrewdaw6050 Yes, the average downward force is the same as when standing (it oscillates between zero and more than bodyweight when running, with the fraction at zero increasing with speed). But no, the net horizontal force is zero at constant speed because of Newton's laws (contact force needs a component to balance air resistance force, which is rather small except when sprinting or against a strong headwind. This is still a significant fraction of energy, 1%-10% for me, because energy = force x distance, and the horizontal distance is large) . At steady speed, the only role for an "acceleration phase" (not a normal term) would be to compensate for a "deceleration phase" (also not a common term, because this is bad form, except on a downhill where it is necessary!)
I see alot of runners "jump" in every step.. I will never be able to run like that -my knees would break in just a few years. My way is a softer approach, because I want to be able to run even when I am 75.
Since you have to support your weight: Unless you "jump", you invariably end up with a much longer period of ground contact. It is in no way obvious that this longer, more drawn out contact time time, does not put as least as much strain on knees as a shorter, more percussive stride with more time spent in the air would.
See Pose Theory instead
Hey coach ! I'm your new subscriber...Coach I have a race for the police job.. where I have to run a mile under 6.30 min..but when I run it feels difficult after 1km.. please guide me so that I can qualify in the race....❤
Sure. 2 things:
ruclips.net/video/5-Z9brt_JSU/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/FUsrIr5KLow/видео.html
The correct scientific term to explain this is "inertia". You don't actively "move" your body during this phase, your body moves itself at the speed you are running due to the inertia. Another aspect of this equation is the assumption that there's a delta time between your foot touches down the ground and the time when you can apply maximum force. Maybe in a ideal world or with someone with a perfect technique, the delta time could be 0 and the delta distance should then be 0 too, that means you actually land just below your body. But at all the other cases, when there is a time gap between your food touches the ground and when you can apply maximum force, there should always be a front "overstep" distance out there, simply because... body inertia and that time gap... Your video answered a long lasting question in my mind... However, it makes a new question of its own: is the "perfect technique" possible given the human physics? Should that be something that we should try to go near it as possible as we can, or it's just something that we can't? Any more insight on this? Really good information, really good insight, thank you!
The elites at the end are all overstriding. Bekele never used to heelstrike or overstride back in 90s and early 00s but when he switched to roads the unhealthy cushioned shoes changed his form for the worst. Thabkfully they fixed that before his marathon PB. Even elites can overstride, some of the fastest runners in my town have the worst heel striking form I've seen, more heel strike than a bowling alley so we can't go by how fast someone is. Just take off your shoes and you will learn everything you need to know how to run efficiently.
How can you be so sure that Bekele changed his way of running when he went from running on the track to the marathon because of more cushioned shoes? For example, I heard Helie Gebreselassie say in an interview that he deliberately switched to putting more weight on his heel when he went from the track to the marathon in order to last the whole way. What makes you think Bekele hasn't done the same?
The part about if you just take your shoes off you end up with both overstride and landing on your heel is also not true. Have seen lots of barefoot runners and runners in FiveFingers both overstride and land clearly on the heel. Have made a video even about it. There you can see a woman running barefoot on asphalt where she pushes her heel down a good distance in front of her. She thinks she is running on her forefoot, but the video shows otherwise.
Furthermore, many people who run barefoot try to reduce vertical forces which they do by extra large overstride (more overstride = less vertical forces), but they dip their toes down so they land on the forefoot. This causes other types of injuries but it's certainly not the case that running without shoes automatically gives you good running technique.
But as usual, I say: Do what you want. If you want to run barefoot and like it, do it! But if I have to choose, I'd rather you didn't write things that aren't true as comments on my channel.
This is why you should NOT try to consciously regulate where you foot land. It should only be the result of elastic recoil.
Focus on good upper body and pelvis counter rotation to create the needed recoil. Simple.
Over-striding breaks your speed relative to the force you place on it. Equal and opposite force.
I just can't see why braking your speed while running is a good idea.
It's not. But because of inertia and time lags in the the way muscles and elastic tendons build up to their max force, you have no choice: You have to start energising the muscles, and stretching the tendons, a bit prior to when you want peak force to occur. When you run fast enough, you simply cannot help but having to start this energising, early enough that the initial phases of it contributes to a tiny bit of braking.
@@paulnorman8274 Keyword, tiny bit.
You can say what you want, but overstriding breaks your speed. One should focus on high heel lift and a knee drive. Try mirroring Kipchoge and you will understand
I think just like landing, it also depends on what does overstriding truly mean. If the initial contact is just the heel merely touching the ground then it is actually fine since it is not the point where the entire force from landing applies on the ground. I think as long as the force from landing is applied during midstance, with the entire surface of your foot on the ground, the initial contact becomes less important.
As for mirroring elites' running forms, I think we shouldn't do that. If you watch Paul Chelimo's biomechanics video, he said many would consider Kipchoge's form too bouncy (too much vertical movements). Kelvin Kiptum for example has much more shoulder movements than Kipchoge but he's fine running in his own form.
Also, from what I have observed, East Africans have way more obvious leaning forward than the others and that almost made it look like the position of their foot during midstance is slightly behind the center of gravity. If you watch the running analysis videos that explain their foot position from the front angle, it thus made their foot overpronate a little (there is videos about Kipchoge and Cheptegei's foot position from the front angle). I haven't seen any non-East African elites succesfully mirrored East African elites' running form or they knew they should not even try that.
Not sure if you're familiar with how gas engines work: They almost always fire the spark, starting the combustion process hence pressure build, slightly ahead of the piston being all the way at the to of the compression stoke. They do this, because it takes time from the combustion starts, until it is complete and pressure is at its peak. If the spark fired right when the piston was at the very top, the initial part of the power stroke, would be powered by less pressure than possible acting on the piston. So, instead, the burn is started early. This does lead to a tiny build of low pressure "braking force" on the piston during the very end of the compression stroke. But the tradeoff; increased power stroke efficiency; is worth it.
Muscle, and elastic tendon (and even, a tiny bit just for completeness, bone..) force, work the same way. It's not dead zero to instantaneously full on in an instant. Instead, it's a ramp. So, in order to have the most force available at the point where your joints are in the most advantageous position, you have to start ramping up slightly prior. Even if, at high speeds, this means your joints may be far enough from ideal, that there may be some slight, lab measurable, "braking force" occuring right at footfall and the first microsecond after. Even Kipchoge does not run as efficiently as a wheel rolls. If he did, he'd keep up with cyclists. And even he, is not THAT fast.
@@BugattianVeyronian even more importantly is the knee angle upon first ground contact. So many recreational runners land way ahead of their body with a locked out knee and excessive heel-strike, even when they are 'sprinting' in the last 50m of a race and are 'reaching' for the finish line.. This is terrible form, and incredibly inefficient, not to mention the hammering that the knees and hips have to endure.
As for the East Africans, I think the lean angle is simply an illusion. If your centre of mass goes beyond your foot at mid stance then you simply accelerate up until the point where your cadence can keep up and you fall flat on your face! It's basic physics. If you compare the East African's body proportions to a typical European runner you can see that their legs are far longer than their torso, therefore their torso can be slightly further ahead without their centre of mass getting ahead of their feet. It's just one of the reasons why the East Africans make the better distance runners, because they are carrying less weight that isn't contributing to running. Essentially there are more leg than body. Have a look at photos of Haile Gebrselassie, he's like a pair of lungs with some long legs attached!
I think you make two unsuppoeted assumptions... 1 that when CG is above foot, should be peak force. The ideal force vs position/time curve is very complex, and your passion is not supported by anything? it depends on so many other factor (x, y forces, speed, acceleration, in line, strike type, a hoe type, wind) but without having done any study, I can almost guarantee that your assumption is lot correct
If you're running at a steady pace low enough to not induce massive air resistance, on flat ground, with no wind: Changing the direction of your COG, from downward to upward, is far and away where most of your force is going if you run efficiently. You're effectively jumping up and down on alternating legs, after having been given an initial push up to your current pace.
Also: Efficient running is a lot about substituting elastic stretch reflexes for overt muscle contraction. Elastic bounces invariably have the property that forces increase to a peak, then decrease. They don't erratically vary over the duration of the reflex.
Put the two together, and it's really, really hard to construct a model of a biped running at a steady pace, where peak force does not occur very close to when COM passes above the supporting/bouncing foot. It's not impossible: Novak Djokovic "running" around in an almost full, split in order to stay low and wide, may have some strange ground-force peaks. But that's hardly an efficient running gait for a distance runner.