I think they're both *excellent* products and am not a "fanboy" of either. That said, I think some of your scores are a bit skewed: (1) 1:03 Your statement is backwards. The Axe II is a year *older* than Helix, not a year younger. But the larger point -- I don't think age of the unit is a worthwhile metric. Newer products have been released after the Axe FX III which are not as good as the Axe. Likewise the HX Stomp is newer than the Axe FX III -- does that make it better? Point: moot. (2) The I/O on them is a lot closer matched than your accounting makes it appear. The Helix has a 1/4" guitar in, a 1/4" aux in (you missed this one), an XLR mic in (with phantom power and a pre-amp, both totally lacking in the Axe FX), and just like the Axe FX's cluster of 8 jacks for inputs/outputs 3 and 4, the Helix's 8 effects loop jacks can be used in the same way. You can use any of Helix's effects loop input jacks as the input of a path, and any of the effects loop output jacks as the output of a path. They work essentially the same as Axe FX's. When you *correctly* tally up the I/O of each, the only actual difference is 1 extra pair of XLR outputs on the Axe FX. But as stated above, the Axe FX doesn't have Helix's Mic In/phantom power/pre-amp, so depending on a user's needs, this point could go either way. For me, the mic input is more important. Point: depends on your priorities. For me, Helix. (3) 2:46 The AxeFX comes with a good selection of third-party IRs, which is the "2200 cabinet models" you're referencing. To say they have mic options and compare them 1:1 with Helix is misleading, because they're only "mic options" in the sense that you get IRs with different mics on the Axe, but you can't move those mics around or adjust them. On the Helix, all of its cab models are based on thousands of IRs which DO let you adjust mic distance, mic type, and placement in fine increments. And the sound quality of this implementation was drastically improved with Helix firmware 3.50. It was so good that AxeFX is now copying it whole-hog and playing catch up with their "Dyna-Cabs," which are the same thing as Helix's current cab implementation, but the Axe FX has significantly fewer mics to choose from with their Dyna-Cabs. Point goes to Helix, IMO, because most people who like IRs already have their own libraries of custom ones that they load regardless of the unit they use. (4) 3:29 Counting the quality or value of firmware updates by the revision number is misguided. There have been a lot more than 3 firmware updates for the Helix, and each of them have brought many new amp and effects models to the unit, along with UI improvements and new features. Fractal's updates are much smaller, less tested, and more frequent. Helix's are bigger, come only once or twice a year, and are beta-tested for weeks before release. Both companies are *very* committed to their respective products and both are very good and responsive to their customers. Both have a presence in online forums and interact directly with their users. Point: tie. (5) The AxeFX III definitely has more processing power than the Helix, but if it's why the Axe sounds better, how do we explain the FM3, which sounds the same as the Axe FX III and has the same processing power as the Helix? All that extra horsepower in the Fractal mainly allows you to run more stuff simultaneously. It has less to do with the quality of the modeling. Conclusion: the Axe FX is the better unit, but it's not as much as you might think. And for the difference in cost, it should be. I love both of them.
I'm using a Line 6 HX-FX in 4CM with my tube amps, primarily my Mesa JP-2C which has MIDI control. I have an HXFX patch for each of the three JP-2C amp channels, and just need to program MIDI program change in the HXFX to change JP-2C channels. Sounds great to me, and does everything I need for prog and fusion. I ditched all of my hardware digital modelers except my SY-1000 which I use as a guitar synth not as a digital modeler for traditional guitar sounds. I built a computer rig for guitar that runs my guitar plugins. Works great, sounds great.
The biggest advantage the Helix has over the Fractal as a platform is Helix Native. Unless the production demands the superior modeling quality and extensive parameter modulation of the Fractal, this portability to desktop makes productions with the Helix more efficient and Native doesn't have to be constrained by the hardware DSP limits. The parameter modulators in the Fractal are great for standalone use, but when used with a DAW or MIDI sequencer that has modulators that can be sent over MIDI CC, the Helix lacking those same facilities built in become moot. Also, the Helix has a much better range and selection of models for bass so that the only things really missing that would be desirable are models of an EHX Bass Microsynth and maybe a Minimoog Model D. The Fractal's model of a Darkglass B3 doesn't even include all variations of the Attack and Grunt Switches whereas the Helix's Model of a B7K Ultra has modeled every component and sounds great and IMO close to the actual pedal. The Helix user interface is also very fast.
Hi Leon, Well I was checking your video and there are a few things to correct: In/Outs: Helix Rack: - 2 x guitar in, not 1 ( AUX IN jack in analog inputs is for guitar input about the manual for Helix). - 4 stereo fx loops, not 2. AXE FX III: - 2 x guitar in. Now, talking about the upgrades, if you have fewer upgrades doesn't mean it is worst, Every company uses the versioning for patches in its own approach, If you check the upgrades for AXE FX III, since the fw 1.01/1.02 until the 9.0 all the patches were fixing issues, adding one digit for every fix patch, instead Helix increments the second digit for fixing issues and adding to the first digit when are adding a considerable characteristic. For memory ram, as you say AXE FX III has 4GB, but Helix Rack has 2 GB, not 1 GB. For me both units are great. And it's cool to see this kind of comparison.
Honestly I’ve only had limited time with the axefx but I bought a helix floor in 2022 and I love it. I may not be great at tuning in the cabinet models so I use IRs instead and I love the sound. I would consider myself an amateur though so maybe I’m missing something that could make it better or bias me towards the fractal unit.
Fractal updates always break my patches, especially amp gain staging and requires major reworking of existing patches. I have skipped versions for this reason. Doesn't generally happen on helix
I bought an amazing Fractal FM9- essentially a AxeFX III in a floorboard configuration. 9 glorious footswitches onboard. Here is the deal, Fractal has the best tone and effects hands down. There is no question however, the UI is...ok, bad. Hello 1980's. After 10 years, it was big news that they release an update that...wait for it, allows you to actually read the tiny fonts which is the onboard, antiquated menu. Fractal CLEARLY focused for the last 10 years on the TONE and not the UI on the unit. The PC editor is quite decent but sorry, that is not good enough. I play at my coffee table sans a PC. Time to modernize that UI Cliff. I paid about $1,800 (incl. Ship and Taxes.) After a few months of fumbling around I realized I did not want to do that much work. I already have a job. Many of the stock patches were good enough to make me smile. Regardless, I sold it (did not lose a dime.) I fully plan to replace it WHEN, and only WHEN Cliff decides to bring the UI into the 21st century. Heck, the $300 Hotone Ampero II has a far better color, touch display. Pity many of the other tones were lacking. Same is true of the $200 MG-30 I bought. Horrendous tones mostly however the UI is far better than that of the $1,800 Fractal. I recall playing around with the MG30 and smiling- saying to myself, "YES- but why doesn't the Fractal do this?" It is very easy and intuitive to use. A smallish form factor is great for most of us. It just makes it a joy to use. I give the UI to HELIX but I still don't want one. I tried a Stomp XL the other day based on all the buzz and I hated it. No comparison to Fractal out of the box. Yeah, I know. If you are an expert, you can spend weeks dialing in presets, buy curated tone packs and the Line6 stuff can come close to Fractal, espeically in the mix, but IMHO, it is never quit there. The effects in Fractal are simply amazing- stereo hi-fi reverbs, etc. Line6 should work on their out of box presets IMHO. Bottom line, I am confident that the next generation of the Fractal and even LIne6 flagship products are going to be something special. That is when I will buy. FRACTAL: If you are listening, I (and most) would LOVE to see a FM6- so smaller form factor, COLOR touchscreen, Capture, more DSP power then even the very respectable FM9 Turbo of course, Rotary dials (like Neural DSP), etc. Also, include more patches stock that sound like the names of actual songs. This makes it very easy to dial in song specific tones. It's a great time to be a guitar player!
@@afterstars No. It was never a serious consideration. It is over priced for what you get. It lacks many things including the incredible effects Fractal is known for. I am holding out for an updated, next gen. Fractal unit like a Axe-FX IV or a FM6 should they come to their senses and make one. The FM6, with a simplified UI and more power then the FM9 would be a very popular unit. I have invested in a nice 3 row pedalboard. It will hold me over for the time being. If you can come up with $1950, I know a good guy who is selling his mind Axe-FX III MkII Turbo. It's a great deal, but again, I think a IV is on the horizon. I would take that Turbo all day long over a QC- not even close.
@@MOAB-UTgood to know. Thanks for the info. I’m a pedal and amp guy but I’m thinking of finally making the plunge into the digital world and lightening my load of gear as it’s starting to take over my house. I’ve made it this far so perhaps I’ll hold off to the next gen and go from there. Thank you!
I know you gave the "updates" to Fractal. I get it, they are always conscious and aware and concerned about the customer. However, isn't it odd that they are always updating with big or small fixes? Line 6 doesn't update nearly as much. Does that say the Helix is more stable and well thought out before the customer gets it?
Owning both what do you think? Do you have some models / effect on the Helix you prefer perhaps? Id love an FXIII but I probably wouldn't use 99% of what it has to offer. I had Pods in the past and they were good for the era but again I didnt use half of the stuff on there. Nowadays I just play free plugins on the computer most of the time for the sheer convenience, even though theres a MkV in the corner of the room !
I really like the helix chorus Reverbs and delays are a bit more up front on the helix buy the fractals come across as a little more sophisticated to me. Amp models on the fractal are hands down better. Helix has a much easier interface. Live I am presently using a Tonex for amps and my trust old AX8 for all the effects and switching!
Hey Leon I loved your TONEX demos ! I now own a TONEX pedal and an HX Stomp could you do some in-depth run down on your live settings and amp choices ? Thanks Vic from Vancouver Canada.
You're sure you're going to get hate from both sides...yea, OK. Because there's just so much in this video that Fractal users are going to rage about. What a transparent bullshitter this guy is. I guess if I dumped $2,500 on a unit that sounded only trivially better than Helix Native (if better at all), I'd be trying to rationalize my purchase also.
Man you're just talking out of you a** The things he said are facts. It's not that he has to be transparent about that. Do a little bit of research and you'll know it. If you like helix native more that's totally fine but don't come up with stupid accusations that doesn't make any sense. You're just making a fool out of yourself.
Switched from Fractal to Helix. Sounds just as good folks and it's much easier to use. Will never go back to Fractal
I think they're both *excellent* products and am not a "fanboy" of either. That said, I think some of your scores are a bit skewed:
(1) 1:03 Your statement is backwards. The Axe II is a year *older* than Helix, not a year younger. But the larger point -- I don't think age of the unit is a worthwhile metric. Newer products have been released after the Axe FX III which are not as good as the Axe. Likewise the HX Stomp is newer than the Axe FX III -- does that make it better? Point: moot.
(2) The I/O on them is a lot closer matched than your accounting makes it appear. The Helix has a 1/4" guitar in, a 1/4" aux in (you missed this one), an XLR mic in (with phantom power and a pre-amp, both totally lacking in the Axe FX), and just like the Axe FX's cluster of 8 jacks for inputs/outputs 3 and 4, the Helix's 8 effects loop jacks can be used in the same way. You can use any of Helix's effects loop input jacks as the input of a path, and any of the effects loop output jacks as the output of a path. They work essentially the same as Axe FX's. When you *correctly* tally up the I/O of each, the only actual difference is 1 extra pair of XLR outputs on the Axe FX. But as stated above, the Axe FX doesn't have Helix's Mic In/phantom power/pre-amp, so depending on a user's needs, this point could go either way. For me, the mic input is more important. Point: depends on your priorities. For me, Helix.
(3) 2:46 The AxeFX comes with a good selection of third-party IRs, which is the "2200 cabinet models" you're referencing. To say they have mic options and compare them 1:1 with Helix is misleading, because they're only "mic options" in the sense that you get IRs with different mics on the Axe, but you can't move those mics around or adjust them. On the Helix, all of its cab models are based on thousands of IRs which DO let you adjust mic distance, mic type, and placement in fine increments. And the sound quality of this implementation was drastically improved with Helix firmware 3.50. It was so good that AxeFX is now copying it whole-hog and playing catch up with their "Dyna-Cabs," which are the same thing as Helix's current cab implementation, but the Axe FX has significantly fewer mics to choose from with their Dyna-Cabs. Point goes to Helix, IMO, because most people who like IRs already have their own libraries of custom ones that they load regardless of the unit they use.
(4) 3:29 Counting the quality or value of firmware updates by the revision number is misguided. There have been a lot more than 3 firmware updates for the Helix, and each of them have brought many new amp and effects models to the unit, along with UI improvements and new features. Fractal's updates are much smaller, less tested, and more frequent. Helix's are bigger, come only once or twice a year, and are beta-tested for weeks before release. Both companies are *very* committed to their respective products and both are very good and responsive to their customers. Both have a presence in online forums and interact directly with their users. Point: tie.
(5) The AxeFX III definitely has more processing power than the Helix, but if it's why the Axe sounds better, how do we explain the FM3, which sounds the same as the Axe FX III and has the same processing power as the Helix? All that extra horsepower in the Fractal mainly allows you to run more stuff simultaneously. It has less to do with the quality of the modeling.
Conclusion: the Axe FX is the better unit, but it's not as much as you might think. And for the difference in cost, it should be. I love both of them.
well said.
Helix is a joy to use and own.It's because of the great updates.
People need to use their ears.
I would love a FM9, but as others have said, if you are in a pinch and need a replacement or repair Helix is everywhere
I'm using a Line 6 HX-FX in 4CM with my tube amps, primarily my Mesa JP-2C which has MIDI control. I have an HXFX patch for each of the three JP-2C amp channels, and just need to program MIDI program change in the HXFX to change JP-2C channels. Sounds great to me, and does everything I need for prog and fusion.
I ditched all of my hardware digital modelers except my SY-1000 which I use as a guitar synth not as a digital modeler for traditional guitar sounds.
I built a computer rig for guitar that runs my guitar plugins. Works great, sounds great.
The biggest advantage the Helix has over the Fractal as a platform is Helix Native. Unless the production demands the superior modeling quality and extensive parameter modulation of the Fractal, this portability to desktop makes productions with the Helix more efficient and Native doesn't have to be constrained by the hardware DSP limits. The parameter modulators in the Fractal are great for standalone use, but when used with a DAW or MIDI sequencer that has modulators that can be sent over MIDI CC, the Helix lacking those same facilities built in become moot. Also, the Helix has a much better range and selection of models for bass so that the only things really missing that would be desirable are models of an EHX Bass Microsynth and maybe a Minimoog Model D. The Fractal's model of a Darkglass B3 doesn't even include all variations of the Attack and Grunt Switches whereas the Helix's Model of a B7K Ultra has modeled every component and sounds great and IMO close to the actual pedal. The Helix user interface is also very fast.
Hi Leon, Well I was checking your video and there are a few things to correct:
In/Outs:
Helix Rack:
- 2 x guitar in, not 1 ( AUX IN jack in analog inputs is for guitar input about the manual for Helix).
- 4 stereo fx loops, not 2.
AXE FX III:
- 2 x guitar in.
Now, talking about the upgrades, if you have fewer upgrades doesn't mean it is worst, Every company uses the versioning for patches in its own approach,
If you check the upgrades for AXE FX III, since the fw 1.01/1.02 until the 9.0 all the patches were fixing issues, adding one digit for every fix patch, instead Helix increments the second digit for fixing issues and adding to the first digit when are adding a considerable characteristic.
For memory ram, as you say AXE FX III has 4GB, but Helix Rack has 2 GB, not 1 GB.
For me both units are great. And it's cool to see this kind of comparison.
Well Spotted man. Thank you for your input. :-).
Honestly I’ve only had limited time with the axefx but I bought a helix floor in 2022 and I love it. I may not be great at tuning in the cabinet models so I use IRs instead and I love the sound. I would consider myself an amateur though so maybe I’m missing something that could make it better or bias me towards the fractal unit.
Fractal updates always break my patches, especially amp gain staging and requires major reworking of existing patches. I have skipped versions for this reason. Doesn't generally happen on helix
Had both no comparison fractal all the way
There is no compare between the two
The Fractal Axe Fx is a way Better Than other models
The Axe Fx is a Real modeling unit
And now we are at 27...
Axe 2 is a year younger than Helix? Are you sure?
Weren’t you at the birthday party?
Great video.
I bought an amazing Fractal FM9- essentially a AxeFX III in a floorboard configuration. 9 glorious footswitches onboard.
Here is the deal, Fractal has the best tone and effects hands down. There is no question however, the UI is...ok, bad. Hello 1980's. After 10 years, it was big news that they release an update that...wait for it, allows you to actually read the tiny fonts which is the onboard, antiquated menu. Fractal CLEARLY focused for the last 10 years on the TONE and not the UI on the unit. The PC editor is quite decent but sorry, that is not good enough. I play at my coffee table sans a PC. Time to modernize that UI Cliff.
I paid about $1,800 (incl. Ship and Taxes.) After a few months of fumbling around I realized I did not want to do that much work. I already have a job. Many of the stock patches were good enough to make me smile. Regardless, I sold it (did not lose a dime.) I fully plan to replace it WHEN, and only WHEN Cliff decides to bring the UI into the 21st century. Heck, the $300 Hotone Ampero II has a far better color, touch display. Pity many of the other tones were lacking. Same is true of the $200 MG-30 I bought. Horrendous tones mostly however the UI is far better than that of the $1,800 Fractal. I recall playing around with the MG30 and smiling- saying to myself, "YES- but why doesn't the Fractal do this?" It is very easy and intuitive to use.
A smallish form factor is great for most of us. It just makes it a joy to use. I give the UI to HELIX but I still don't want one. I tried a Stomp XL the other day based on all the buzz and I hated it. No comparison to Fractal out of the box. Yeah, I know. If you are an expert, you can spend weeks dialing in presets, buy curated tone packs and the Line6 stuff can come close to Fractal, espeically in the mix, but IMHO, it is never quit there. The effects in Fractal are simply amazing- stereo hi-fi reverbs, etc. Line6 should work on their out of box presets IMHO. Bottom line, I am confident that the next generation of the Fractal and even LIne6 flagship products are going to be something special. That is when I will buy.
FRACTAL:
If you are listening, I (and most) would LOVE to see a FM6- so smaller form factor, COLOR touchscreen, Capture, more DSP power then even the very respectable FM9 Turbo of course, Rotary dials (like Neural DSP), etc. Also, include more patches stock that sound like the names of actual songs. This makes it very easy to dial in song specific tones.
It's a great time to be a guitar player!
UI and fractal are two difficult words !!
@@jorgemauriciomercado288 Sadly you are correct my friend.
Sounds exactly like my situation. Have you considered Neural DSP Quad Cortex? Nice, simple, colorful and clear interface and screen.
@@afterstars No. It was never a serious consideration. It is over priced for what you get. It lacks many things including the incredible effects Fractal is known for. I am holding out for an updated, next gen. Fractal unit like a Axe-FX IV or a FM6 should they come to their senses and make one. The FM6, with a simplified UI and more power then the FM9 would be a very popular unit. I have invested in a nice 3 row pedalboard. It will hold me over for the time being. If you can come up with $1950, I know a good guy who is selling his mind Axe-FX III MkII Turbo. It's a great deal, but again, I think a IV is on the horizon. I would take that Turbo all day long over a QC- not even close.
@@MOAB-UTgood to know. Thanks for the info. I’m a pedal and amp guy but I’m thinking of finally making the plunge into the digital world and lightening my load of gear as it’s starting to take over my house. I’ve made it this far so perhaps I’ll hold off to the next gen and go from there. Thank you!
I know you gave the "updates" to Fractal. I get it, they are always conscious and aware and concerned about the customer. However, isn't it odd that they are always updating with big or small fixes? Line 6 doesn't update nearly as much. Does that say the Helix is more stable and well thought out before the customer gets it?
Not if you look at the amount of amps, cabs etc that have been added to fractal over the years.
Owning both what do you think? Do you have some models / effect on the Helix you prefer perhaps? Id love an FXIII but I probably wouldn't use 99% of what it has to offer. I had Pods in the past and they were good for the era but again I didnt use half of the stuff on there. Nowadays I just play free plugins on the computer most of the time for the sheer convenience, even though theres a MkV in the corner of the room !
I really like the helix chorus Reverbs and delays are a bit more up front on the helix buy the fractals come across as a little more sophisticated to me. Amp models on the fractal are hands down better. Helix has a much easier interface. Live I am presently using a Tonex for amps and my trust old AX8 for all the effects and switching!
Hey Leon I loved your TONEX demos ! I now own a TONEX pedal and an HX Stomp could you do some in-depth run down on your live settings and amp choices ? Thanks Vic from Vancouver Canada.
@@vicguitar1 sure. That sounds like a great idea for a video!
They sound almost the same using same ir... helix is very easy to use imo...
the amp models sound better in fractal ...plus effects are better. but it is a opinion
Release date means NOTHING! SMH >< How do they sound? How easy are they to program?
You're sure you're going to get hate from both sides...yea, OK. Because there's just so much in this video that Fractal users are going to rage about. What a transparent bullshitter this guy is.
I guess if I dumped $2,500 on a unit that sounded only trivially better than Helix Native (if better at all), I'd be trying to rationalize my purchase also.
Man you're just talking out of you a**
The things he said are facts. It's not that he has to be transparent about that.
Do a little bit of research and you'll know it. If you like helix native more that's totally fine but
don't come up with stupid accusations that doesn't make any sense.
You're just making a fool out of yourself.