Oddly or not, the masks in the Ocean Spider House bear the shapes found on playing cards - Heart, Club, Diamond, Spade - which furthers the "Alice in Wonderland" aspect of the entire game.
or just another symptom of the team only having a year to make the game... probably started panicking and using any old thing they could get their hands on. It was always supposed to be an alternate Hyrule but there were supposed to be more differences in the character models for example.
What I love about your theories is that you don't try to solve everything. You understand that if the answer is less interesting than the mystery, it's not worth answering.
Most mysteries are better when unsolved especially video game ones you feel more like an unsure adventurer in strange environment more so than Sherlock Holmes and his unwieldy comprehension of the world and the problems there in and unsolved means that more then likely it will be boring to figure out who, what, and why but the why seems almost self explained protect the temple looking one from thieves the one that looks more like a sea side home I don't know if we will ever properly know much about at all aside from extremely old
You did say that skull kid is mischievous. Maybe he found the house after it was abandoned and decided for fun to replace the photos with himself as a prank.
I was thinking similar. He's been alive for a long time. Why can't the house be his and he thought it would be funny to tempt and then curse people with the stuff inside?
The absolute madlad. Find an old cult's hiding spot, then replace its imagery with pictures of yourself and have people wonder what it could mean for all eternity. That's trolling at a different level right there.
Same. I always thought the Skull Kid put them there himself. The witch who runs the Pictograph contest knows who the Skull Kid is, so maybe he entered at some point and - like Link - was given a free Picto Box. Makes me laugh thinking he just took a bunch of pictures of himself every time and never won the contest, and THATS why he attacked the witch.
I suspect the pictures might have some sort of enchantment that makes it show a different picture for anyone who looks at it. I have absolutely zero leads for this, but hey, cursed object. As for why Skull Kid, well he's what Link is striving toward. They're bound by the web of fate. I dunno. It's just a thought.
What always stood out most to me about the Swamp Spider House was how final room’s underground tree (with the gossip stone in front) felt like it was foreshadowing the tree inside the moon with the kid sitting in front. And the final room of the Oceanside House seems to have a falling moon motif.
Possible, both of them have serious religious undertones. Religion in Termina is most likely linked to the moon so this spider house must have been some kind of heretic doomsday group that wished for the moon to fall. They have to hide from other humans so they build their temple of worship near the zoras and near the dekus. Oceanside being the place they lived and the Swamp place being some kind or worshipping place.
I always interpreted the Swamp Spider House to be a temple that was excavated by a group of some kind, hence the areas that appeared to be "under construction". The wooden areas are scaffolding similar to that seen in archaeological digs. As for the Ocean Spider House, this place is very scholarly in appearance, with the library and even the message on the door that hints to a place seeking knowledge. With all the artifacts within the house, I assume this was the place where all that was taken to the from the swamp spider house temple was kept, and brought with them, the Spider's Curse. Perhaps, the missing eye jewel from the golden spider statue could even be be found in the Ocean House, further connecting two. Whether or not this is an untold story of cult worshippers or just cursed scholars, hard to say, but I get some classic Indiana Jones/Archeological Adventure vibes from both locations.
honestly that was what I thought too, the ocean house looked more designed as an ancient library/museum/storage area the spider motif there might just be to fit objects on display that they have excavated from the swamp among possible other locations cut due to the development teams famously short schedule. The main room of the swamp one on the other hand is obviously a temple with the "unfinished" rooms feeling like they were slowly excavating from that main room. The wierdest part of this whole thing is how both ancient ruins are in better condition than most other ruins in the game... even the ones in similar conditions or even better ones! suggests that the spider house members were actually better mages than most. Suggesting Hylians over humans, Gorons or either of the forest tribes of the game, sadly also the Zora since even in BOTW their amazing structure is just constantly repaired as evidenced by the opal gathering side quest.
This changed my mind on the idea of the two! The Ocean area has a scientist just offshore, so maybe there was some venture to the Swamp temple and they had some investigators. The curse could affect EVERYONE involved, since curses are weird and malleable with how they work based on malice or hatred. Since the studious house is more of a chamber to meet in and study, maybe a revival of some spider based belief system happened, or just a desire for treasure.
Which would explain why there are just...these two random coffins in the storage room of the Oceanside Spider House. Maybe they were dug up from underneath the giant tombstone in the Swamp Spider House and taken to the Oceanside Spider House for study?
I think we are ignoring an important detail: spider infested places are signs of abandonment. There are japanese folklore that revolve around not taking care of your possessions and of abandoned buildings. The fact that Hirake is found on the decaying doors of the Great Bay Spider house is also meaningful in some why: maybe its curse comes from this "a closed/decaying building forced to be open/improved" since spiders build they could be seen as the ones improving it. Where in the Swamp Spider house that is a shrine, it is a place of worship where no one worships, these spiders could have brought "the curse" as they are now the occupants of the shrine, they are the ones who give the shrine purpose; their curse is a defense one not a malice one.
When I was a kid I was facinated by the ocean spider house and thought it was very homey and pretty. So much so I actually drew an expanded version of it with a few additional floors and bedrooms.
after watching this... there is only one thing you didnt touch on in relation to the skulltulla: the skulltulla tokens. they only appear AFTER a golden skulltulla is defeated/killed. the man at the ocean house will trade items for them, meaning they exist in other areas. (tangent for another day: why does that man WANT them?) tokens are generally used as a form of currency or credit for trade. no, i dont think the tokens are just "trophies" from the defeated skulltullas. the tokens must have a purpose, otherwise the man at the ocean house would not need or want them. one thing to note is that the tokens have a small flame like aura, reminiscent of souls. if the tokens contain the souls of the departed (which race's souls unknown), then that would give them great value as they could be used in some kind of ritual, possibly at the swamp house (really should be called a shrine or temple eh?). anywho... heart this comment if you see it don. if not... i may DM you later on discord about it.
Children who get lost in the forest also turn into Skull Kids. Maybe the houses were built by a group of Skull Kids, not necessarily the one who stole Majora's Mask. Though it's true that they don't really seem like the type to build underground temples, spiders do mostly appear in "forest" areas, like in Woodfall Temple and more notably the Lost Woods. It's not impossible that there's some connection there. The Spider Houses make for one of my favorite parts of Majora's Mask, especially in terms of gameplay, so it's cool to see them covered! There's so much to uncover in Termina.
I’m always so excited when you post a video about majoras mask :) I speak Japanese so I looked into some Japanese zelda forums about the grave in the swamp spider house and apparently it can be read as クモヤカタ シユシン ココニネムル or “kumo-yakata shiyushin kokoni nemuru” which means: “those who come from the spider house sleep here”. They also mentioned that it was a rare sight to see hyrule script written top down and read right to left (like traditional Japanese) as it is usually written horizontally left to right. Note for other Japanese speakers: the forum posters mentioned that the “シユシン“ was dubious. My interpretation is that “出身” is the closest match since it makes sense contextually
シュシン can also mean 主神 which can either mean "chief god" or the person who lead rituals during the Dazaifu jurisdiction. Which would change the stone monument's meaning to imply that it is either a monument to their deity or to one of their religious leaders. What I find dubious is if it really is シュシン or not because the latter two characters have a lot missing. I think I can see it, but the entire characters aren't there, like they had parts erased.
@@ginton1964 thanks, I think you’re right, 主神 makes more sense than 出身. It’s also more fun theory wise :) The characters do seem to be written messily on purpose though. They almost look like they’ve been written by brush stroke to me.. and that plus the reading direction point definitely strengthens the claim of how ancient these places are.
That intro just makes me love Majora's Mask even more. I'd love to watch just a video of different Termina landscapes with the Song of Healing playing in the background. Very cool.
What I really love about Zelda games in general is that freedom to come up with the lore behind settings. It really mimics that idea of stumbling upon some ancient, hidden location. At some point, it'll be practically impossible to piece together its origin exactly, so just viewing it as its own piece of isolated lore and history and appreciating the culture and set pieces is still insanely interesting and really helps build the world even more. Loved the video!
This is a good theory research. My kids love to watch the spider house guys waving their hands up and down. Similar to the guy in Ocarina that loves to trade stuff. The guy just slaps his knees continuously.
One theory I had was that the people who were in those houses were studying what happened so long ago. That would explain the four mask imagery, and why they would have the skull kid’s portrait on the wall; he’s the imp from legend. As for the spider imagery, A) the golden spiders were probably a really fascinating point of study, and B) it’s creepy. Creepy enough to symbolize both a manipulative cult, and creepy enough to keep other people out, since… well, they’d be skeeved. That was my theory as a kid, anyway.
I love discussions about obscure topics like these! I never think about the environments and videos like this show me how much nintendo cared about a narrative, even if a loose and obtuse one. If you ever find the inspiration to do it, I'd love to hear (and see these gorgeous visuals) you talking about the Oracles games and even Four Swords Adventures (there are a lot of obscure lore details there).
Oh yeah I usually am quite oblivious to the environment as well when I first play games, haha. It isn't until some time later that I go back and see everything interesting I missed. I'm definitely looking to cover more 2D zelda games. Only doing 3D games will no doubt get stale. The Oracle games also happen to be one of my favourites! ^^
@@setteplays We play too focused on the mechanics and grinding. I'm totally oblivious to these elements prior to some youtuber making videos about them as well. xD
To me, the architectural secrecy and pomp combined with the card suits on the masks implies to me that this was a society of gamblers, like highest stakes possible yakuza types. Heads of four families meet at the four chairs, that sort of thing. Maybe they're all from outside Termina and they have a picture of the Skull Kid as he looked when they met him, though it may have been over many decades.
I think it's neat that the masks in the dining room have the different suits from a typical pack of cards. Four suits, four masks, four giants? Hmmm...
you know what? i think they started in the ocean house, got rich through dog racing, and started building the swamp house. that's why it's so ornate. love the vid.
I don’t think I realized how beautiful Majora’s Mask 3D looks until I saw this video. I’ll have to play it again and appreciate the textures & scenery more! Great video, as always!
Going on the notion of the ocean-side spider house being more 'homely', perhaps the idea about the group who made it potentially knowing about the Skull Kid bringing down the moon, so they made it, not for themselves, but for those in the future. As you said, the group isn't necessarily 'evil', so this could've been a place meant more for hope. After all the place seems to have everything a person could need to rebuild society after 'the end'. The only problem being that nobody who knew about it survived until the present day in Termina, and even then only one random guy happens across it at all, and only THEN if you clear the place out to begin with.
I thought that too at first. But whenever you find an obstacle in the game related to him, it has an icon of Majora on it. Like on blocks and balloons etc. Not a pic of Skull Kid.
17:49 the first three characters on the left are almost definitely "kokoni", the second(?) character in the second column appears to be "yu", and I think the last symbols on the third column look like "eta", so it's almost certainly written in the Hylian script from the original versions of OoT and MM (before a bunch of it was replaced with Wind Waker's Hylian script). >kokoni(?)(?)(?) >(?)yu(?) >(?)(?)(?)eta "Koko ni" is "Here (object marker)", and "-eta" sounds like the ending of a verb to me, so maybe this is a common or stereotypical Japanese gravestone inscription transcribed in Hylian? Something along the lines of "Here lies a friend", or something like that?
@@Arrowz_88 you think skullkid can't get into a house with Majora's mask without blowing up a wall? That kids got secret powers we can't fathom, he could be in my kitchen right now and I'd never know
@@Arrowz_88 Or he could just phase through. Or maybe he's the one who sealed up the wall? @Kazooples, definitely thought the same exact thing lol. That he claimed the house as his own for a little bit before getting bored of it.
Played this game, beat it a few times. Never occurred to me how truly SINCERELY creepy the silent young man in the field is. Only visible from the telescope. A ghost? Nah, those aren't real. Creepy.
Those four coloured masks have the symbols of playing card groups. One of the games you can play with playing cards is spider solitaire. Coincidence. I think not.
Still enjoying every single video you put out. The footage alone makes me appreciate the beauty, creativity and mystery behind this game so much. For the longest time I was convinced that OOT would remain my all time favourite videogame, but MM is definitely the most captivating.We'll never see a Zelda game like this again. I believe your conclusion about mystery and not knowing goes for the entire game. As we and Majora's Mask grow older, the story and the world in which it takes place seem to increase in space for philosophy and other question marks.
Skull kid paintings in the ocean house are interesting. The four masks in the "conference" room look like the giants, and we know that both are REALLY old.
Maybe the group have pictures of the Skull Kid because they knew what he did or was about to do, and so they were planning cursing him trying to lure him into their on-purpose-build fancy bases. Since the Skull Kid liked to steal and rob stuff, they figured he would check the places out. Damn my english is crap
In The Majora's Mask Manga's there's a story explaining the origins of the Majora's Mask.I don't know whether it's canon or not but it says that a long time ago in some ruins in a desert there was a dragon who had this magic armour and everyone wanted a little bit of it,then this guy appears and tricks the monster into killing itself.He then carves a piece of the armour into the shape of a Mask. The mask is the majora's mask,the guy probably represents The Fierce Deity and the dragon could be the spirit inside the mask itself.As for the desert area I believe that it's the stone tower temple,just before its construction.There's a lot of Mask symbolism in there come to think of it so I suspect it was built to strengthen the seal on the mask.The people who created it were the ancestors to the Garo who arrived from a portal in the surrounding area.They would quite likely use the place with all the strange cut outs hanging down as some sort of shrine or hideout and it would've served them well during the battle between them and The Ikana Kingdom! That's my theory on this anyway!
i think my favourite part of the zelda franchise are the ancient locations and backstories, playing zelda games and finding areas such as the spider houses or zonai statues from botw that provide lore in a way that doesn't fully explain everything is always such aunique experience that give this very strange melancholic sense of mystery that no other franchise can really replicate. it may be due to the darker tone of zelda games but the theories surrounding them have always intrigued me and this theory is an especially good one nice work.
It's remarkable how creepy and atmospheric this game is, even today. And some of the location designs are pure art, at times reminding me of Zdzisław Beksiński's work.
11:32 Except that Majora’s Mask uses a similar motif for the eyes as the Fused Shadow Mask which was made by the Twili. Even the Ikana and Garo are similar to the dynamic of the Royal Hyrulian Family and the Yiga, whose leader oddly enough uses the same fight style as the Garo’s leader.
Just a random thought, but what if the reason they have the paintings of skull kid is because they were studying the curse of the lost woods that gave him immortality(if skull kids are just children that get lost in the woods)? They may have wanted to try to reproduce the immortality effect without losing their memories or minds and ended up making the spider's cure. Another possibility is that they were trying to find a way to reverse the curse on skull kid, and they decided that the best way to do that was to figure out how curses worked in general. This study led to the creation of the spiders curse. Just a theory.
When I first played MM3D I was so taken with the spider houses because they're just so visually striking. I know odds are they were never meant to have any sort of definitive story, but these contained little environments are so unique and detailed it makes you want to find one If I had played the game when I was younger I can easily see myself going in there to just hang out and run around for hours
Maybe the four giants were once "human" the equivalent of the Hyrulian sages and that the spider religion was started from a slinter group from the people who created the stone tower. They left because they saw that The Tower was dark and malicious but as they gathered knowledge and practiced magic trying to guide the people of Termina and they created something like a Triforce, maybe the tower finished developing a weapon or artifact that would ultimately result in the fall of Termina so without much time to prepare they used the artifact to help give them the ability to "create" Termina which ultimately led them to changing into lesser deities which guided the people of Termina effectively creating the region not physical from the ground up but from a civilization similar to how Hylia guided the people of Hyrule. The curse could be a byproduct of not preparing the ritual correctly as we have all seen in previous Zelda games on what happens why you mess up a ceremony or spell. It'd also explain the skullkid photos everywhere a regret or maybe a failed attempt at divinity? But anyways I hope what I wrote made sense but I loved the video I always look forward to them.
13:57 I think that time passes differently between Termina and Hyrule kinda like a Narnia thing, and Skull Kid is unaffected by it. When he was originally banished from Termina by the Giants he might have been in Hyrule for a relatively short amount of time but centuries had passed in Termina, which shows why he’s present in the Ocean Spider House and Granny’s story about the Giants but is also in the Lost Woods during the child years of OoT and the prologue of MM.
It seems odd that there's only two spider houses and not four. Everything is in fours, in balance. I wonder if there was originally supposed to be four, one in each quadrant, but then two got cut. If so, I'd think that maybe it was a group of four friends who visited each other in their respective homes.
I always enjoy your theory videos 💕 They have a beginning, the history - a middle, what happend - and an ending, your thoughts on it. Always with images or videos. I just love your way of making videos, you spoil us 😁
The masks on the wall at 13:27 also have symbols depicted on them. They look like those from playing cards, as in poker and alike. I don't know if this is relevant though, but it's a neat little detail.
Spiders were always feared and seen as a symbol of mischief and malice due to the slow death given by their venom. This is the reason why spiders are mostly seen as a curse but some worshipped them like a cult either for affection or as a sign of respect. I am certain that Skulltulas are spiders just for the reason that its association with curses is burned in our heads for ages by now.
@@jameskosusnik1102 i should have phrased it different: some worshipped them like a god and some like a cult etc. My comment was directed to the theory of a spider cult in Zelda so I wrote it like that.
In watching your video, I feel that rather than unfinished, the swamp house just looks buried. In fact both of them do, which might give some context to their age. They are so old that the structures became buried underground, with only portions of them remaining or later investigations unearthing them. The tomb and the like might have originally been outdoors.
Perhaps this was a demo area created by one of the programmers. Ultimately it wasn't used for the town or a dungeon or the story but it was kept for a side quest. Like most good creators, the Majora's Mask developers probably kept trying to pack more and more into the game before they had to ship it.
@@Marcosberto2 OK. What if the ocean house was where the giants used to live when they were younger (and smaller). Playing cards was a favorite pastime. Perhaps they simply outgrew the place. Have you seen the size of that gravestone And they had pictures on the wall of their favorite friend. Or he magicked all of the photos in the house to be himself as a prank at some point.
Maybe they are the gold skulltula? that would explain why you had to defeat them and collect their souls to break the curse (ya know by killing the casters). their reason for doing all this was they're a crazy cult. (But that last part makes it less fun.)
Skull Kid is pretty badass, he has two fairies and we have never seen any characters in the series with two of them. Not to mention fairy users are all kokiris except Link. So if he is not a deity he is pretty close to one
Theres a lot of majora immagery in the stone tower and the secret shrine (giant statue in stone tower and a bunch of heart shaped masks in the secret shrine) thats why people think they where build by the tribe that majora created, i personally believe that the shrine was where majoras masks was kept originally before the salesman discovered the mask.
While I can´t say much about the ocean spider house, I do have a theory concerning the swamp house. My favorite zelda boss in terms of fun and stupidity has always been Odolwa. The moment I saw him and heard his sounds, I couldn´t help but pause the game and laugh. But aside from that, I always felt like the bosses from Majoras Mask had a bigger meaning to them. They seem so perfectly connected to their surroundings that they can´t be created by Majora only. Maybe they once were ancient beings that lived in Termina alongside the other tribes. Especially Odolwa seems to be a king who controls his own army of bugs, dragonflies, spiders and so on. I believe that he once used the spider house as some kind of treasure house or even lived there. Since Woodfall temple seems to have been built by the Deku tribe, I belive that Odolwa once inhabited the spider house and his army, that we see around and inside the house were guardians. The stone could be his grave and he simply got resurrected by Majora who used his face/mask as a prison for the giant of the swamp. I don´t know if this sounds plausible but I always thought about Odolwas role in the swamp area. Maybe I get some kind of agreement or additions
Something that you could consider about the pictures of Skull Kid is that you could consider him some kind of warding signal. Often times images of saints, benevolent spirits or gods are used to ward off evil. So why not a being of chaos and mischief to ward off the eyes of things that would interfere? Perhaps invoking his image is meant to ward off those that would impose order on them like guards or enemy wizards?
I feel like the happy mask salesman could have been involved somehow with the ocean side one. He knows that the skull kid took his mask so perhaps he was studying him..and the house is mask themed after all. Not to mention the salesman himself is very secretive and mysterious in nature.
Good stuff. Unique Zelda theories seem to be in short supply these days. If you’re looking for more material, I have an in depth theory about how and why the mummified corpse in the BOTW2 trailer is really…. Groose. Keep up the good work. It helps to have something to keep me entertained until we get some more news on the new game. Cheers
Some of these theories are out there but ill be damned if they don’t map perfectly over the sense of mystery depth and mystery I would feel playing these games as a child. The ability of the absolute wizards that created these games ability to tap into archetypal themes that I believe exist in the collective subconscious of everyone cannot be understated. And you are brilliant for your ability to articulate it. Lovely content
It should be noted that game development wise, both the Swamp Spider House as well as Beneath the Well are maps that were initially created for Ocarina of Time but ultimately scrapped for that game (as last year's gigaleak shows). Now for Majora's proper, we don't know if the Oceanside house was created first and then the then scrapped map was reused second or even the other way around, but I do think that this is probably the reason why both Spider House maps ultimately don't really match all that much in purpose or anything other than being sidequests, really, which granted, the devs probably never thought much about either with the very limited time they had to put Majora's Mask together.
This video made me realize that the Majora's Mask has four pairs of spikes in its lower half and one pair on top, that when looked upside down COULD be interpreted as a spider with its eight legs and two pedipalps...
Since we know that Skull Kid is ancient and mischievous, I think it's quite possible that he played a prank on the residents of the Spider House. I think that those picture frames initially had very different pictures in them. And then Skull Kid either replaced them all or painted his face over them, like a graffiti tag. The "I was here" of ancient Termina, if you will. It can't be proven of course, but I like the idea of us wondering what happened there, if it's a prophecy or whatnot, and then it's all been an April's Fool prank from thousands of years ago.
here is an interesting theory what if the two places werent spider themed in the first place but were in fact cursed as well? slowly over time changing into a more spider themed place and all the gold skulltulas are the inhabitants! for all we know the cursed guy could be midway thru transforming
Monster Maze, the aliens created Termina, and built the spider houses. That's why they needed milk. You see, Gorman was out of it, the aliens bribed him to steal the zora eggs and sell them to the pirates. Self sabotage.... but the aliens still got their milk.
I like how the main meeting room in the Ocean Spider House has 4 masks over the fireplace with 4 chairs with each color matching the 4 temples and 4 giants in the game.
The spiderhouses might just be separate, video game-y levels, but I think the designers probably had some kind of lore they built up around them amongst themselves. Thanks for some food for future theories!
I feel like maybe they were just creepy spider loving people, maybe they preferred darkness (no windows in either house). Built the ocean house to live and then wanted to build another, much more fancy house around a cool "monument" they found in their research (mega library), only to realise too late that its some cursed tomb, the curse killed them all or turned them into what they loved, spiders. This is why the second house is unfinished and why the curse only seems to linger in the woodland house.
For some reason I always remembered there being 3 spider houses, but thinking about it I can only remember the location of these two. I don't know why I haven't been able to get the thought of a third one out of my head after all these years.
16:00 I just noticed the colors of the 4 masks. Red, blue, green, yellow. They can refer to the Triforce. Green courage, red power, blue wisdom, and yellow or gold to the Triforce itself.
Or the four giants; green swamp, red mountains, blue ocean, yellow canyon. Shooting ('disrespecting') them being the key to the hidden room ties into the revered Skull Kid theme perhaps?
got a much less interesting theory. Look closely and you'll see the playing cards suits (heart, spade, diamond and club). Seems like instead of having cult meetings there these guys just loved playing some poker
I was 12 when this game first came out. Me and my best friend would watch his older brother play this game. I finally saved up for a used N64 from the pawn shop and the 1st game I bought was ocarina of time when I was 14 and have become obsessed with ocarina of time and majoras mask ever since. One thing I remember back when we used to watch him play the game is there was an NPC standing next to the door inside the skulltula house on the right side. It wasn't any of the 5 cursed spiders but someone else. Has anyone else seen this??
I'm quite late, but I wanted to throw my hat in the ring. From what little I've learned watching videos on archaeology, architectural differences can tell us a lot about how a culture evolves. Given the strong and relatively consistent symbolism of the spider, I'd reckon that they're both from the same cultures, however far back they may be. Based on pure aesthetic, the Swamp House seems much older to me than the Ocean House. One big thing I note is the usage of stone architecture. Most of what appears to be the main temple of the Swamp House is stonework, and what little isn't (if I'm not mistaken) are from the wood platforms of the "unfinished" areas. But I actually have another theory on those. Notably, the wood seems much newer. This could be overspeculation, but perhaps this wasn't under construction but instead excavation. An ancient structure dedicated to the spider and buried under the changing landscape. As time progressed, the culture/society that had developed then rediscovered their people's old temple and began researching more, hence the Ocean House. The coloring of the masks screams the symbolism of the 4 peoples of Termina: Goron (Red), Zora (Blue), Deku (Green), and Ikana (Yellow). Perhaps the ancient people of each region met to study the spider's curse, and were all perhaps connected to the ancient civilization of the spider who had built the Swamp House's temple. This would also explain the vast shift on theme from vibrant stonework to darker Victorian architecture. Some sort of religion or cult may have decided to continue the spider's legacy, but crawled too close to the truth. Perhaps the ones who had built the Swamp House's temple were indeed related to the Stone Tower's creators, and perhaps they were connected to the Sheikah. Based on other theories, prrhaps they were even related to the Interlopers spoken of in Twilight Princess. Perhaps it was all left abandoned by people who tried so hard to play Gods that the Goddesses themselves intervened, and their past left to fall under the dirt of the swamp. Their scars leaving such grievous wounds that even those who seek to understand what they knew will find themselves lost in curses and sorrow.
In my current playthrough of The Minish Cap I've noticed that there are four masks in the Mayor's house that seem similar to the masks in the Spider House here in Majora's Mask. I'm not sure if you can make any connections there (maybe not) but I thought I'd make a mention here for good measure.
@@MonsterMaze I posted a reply with a link but I dont think RUclips's censorship program took too kindly to that :P I found an image of the mayor's house interior showing two masks on the wall on a shelf serving as an obstacle for Minish Link. The only resemblance that I see now that I am looking at them are the fact that they are wall ornaments and they are red and blue like the masks in the spider house as seen in your video. There probably definitely isn't any connections... but yeah. hope I'm not wasting your time here xD
I like the whole joke of rooting for the guys in the spider houses just to place a bomb next to them and walk off non chalantly afterwards, links straight face says it all
Oddly enough I always was sure that skull kid was seen as something like a powerful spirit. And maybe skull kid was worshipped before he caused trouble
The golden house is for average patrons , and the library house is for the priesthood. But the reason they fell is because they were cursed by their evil intentions. Spider webs are known as a symbol for diabolical manipulation. Skull Kid went to the library because it was safe , and found out how to use masks. Granted he needed the power in Majora's mask to do it , but he still knew how. Even being able to withhold a masks creation and turn it into a curse. That secret room has the same trippy colors as Majora's final boss room. That might actually be the place where Skull Kid unlocked Majora's mask. And appeared in front of you afterwards just to taunt you. Given that he's not much of an artist , it seems like he tested the waters with artworks.
alternate explanation for the Skull Kid paintings: Skull kid found the house one day, went and saw a bunch of paintings of old guys, and swapped them out for paintings of himself.
The room with the four masks is tarot. It's some sort of strange play on the triforce. The three colors are present & gold. The Heart is cups meaning emotion, the blue spade a sword meaning mind, the clubs are rods which is about personal capably. The diamond is all about pentacles. Also I. The opening the spider has 8 eyes, with blue gems. Meaning the 8 sages. I believe the spider image is the image of this world's royal family, instead of the bird. Which it is weird you mean the forest temple. There are theories the room with the paintings fight again shadow Ganon is a sacred realm room or some how links as a portal to somewhere else.
My theory is that the Garo made the Spider Houses, Ikana sent Troops to check one out, the paintings of the skull kid could either be a Skull Kid Prank, or that the Garo were onto Skull kids Dimension hopping nature and became obsessed with him. as far as the geography goes of bolth locations, the point at which they meet is Milk Road. where the trio of Brothers live who give you the Garo Mask in the first place are. it could be that theyre the descendants of the residents of these two houses. whether or not the brothers know about their lineage or about the spider houses can only be speculated. but itd also give their seeming blood fued with the romanis an extra layer.
This is off topic (via game), but I always had a theory that the OoT Skulltula house were either related to Bongo Bongo (I always associated Bongo with the inventor or inspiration for the Lens' creation) when he was alive, but the Sheikah may have cursed the whole family. Specifically a curse laid for entrapping and preying on the wealth of others, spiders creeping down to claim their prey in the web. The video was neat, though! I never gave those ones much thought at all til now- I just assumed it was "Here's that minigame again, bud."
For the "HIRAKE" engraving, I like to think it's a pun from the developer and/or the artist, since it's on a door that is supposed to be opened by the player.
Regarding the paintings, even if they idolized Skull Kid in any way, I find it unlikely that every painting in their house would show the same image. I always liked to think that this was actually a prank by Skull Kid, making every painting in the house show his face instead of the original. It would be pretty funny!
Oddly or not, the masks in the Ocean Spider House bear the shapes found on playing cards - Heart, Club, Diamond, Spade - which furthers the "Alice in Wonderland" aspect of the entire game.
I've never looked at it that way!
or just another symptom of the team only having a year to make the game... probably started panicking and using any old thing they could get their hands on. It was always supposed to be an alternate Hyrule but there were supposed to be more differences in the character models for example.
That puzzle was tricky! I remember it
Nintendo used to make playing cards. Probably nothing to do with this though.
@@aethermass They still do!
Not seeing the bomb explode so many times hurt me so the ending made it all the more satisfying.
Gald you stuck around until the very end haha ^^
What I love about your theories is that you don't try to solve everything. You understand that if the answer is less interesting than the mystery, it's not worth answering.
Thank you! The mystery itself is indeed the most exciting part ^^
@@MonsterMaze before the answer anyways.
Most mysteries are better when unsolved especially video game ones you feel more like an unsure adventurer in strange environment more so than Sherlock Holmes and his unwieldy comprehension of the world and the problems there in and unsolved means that more then likely it will be boring to figure out who, what, and why but the why seems almost self explained protect the temple looking one from thieves the one that looks more like a sea side home I don't know if we will ever properly know much about at all aside from extremely old
You did say that skull kid is mischievous. Maybe he found the house after it was abandoned and decided for fun to replace the photos with himself as a prank.
I was thinking similar. He's been alive for a long time. Why can't the house be his and he thought it would be funny to tempt and then curse people with the stuff inside?
The absolute madlad.
Find an old cult's hiding spot, then replace its imagery with pictures of yourself and have people wonder what it could mean for all eternity. That's trolling at a different level right there.
Yeah, that was my interpretation too, especially since all the paintings are the same and looks less decrepit than other objects in the house seem to.
Same. I always thought the Skull Kid put them there himself. The witch who runs the Pictograph contest knows who the Skull Kid is, so maybe he entered at some point and - like Link - was given a free Picto Box. Makes me laugh thinking he just took a bunch of pictures of himself every time and never won the contest, and THATS why he attacked the witch.
I suspect the pictures might have some sort of enchantment that makes it show a different picture for anyone who looks at it.
I have absolutely zero leads for this, but hey, cursed object. As for why Skull Kid, well he's what Link is striving toward. They're bound by the web of fate.
I dunno. It's just a thought.
What always stood out most to me about the Swamp Spider House was how final room’s underground tree (with the gossip stone in front) felt like it was foreshadowing the tree inside the moon with the kid sitting in front.
And the final room of the Oceanside House seems to have a falling moon motif.
Oh that is indeed a nice catch! It would be awesome if it indeed turns out to be symbolic of that
Possible, both of them have serious religious undertones.
Religion in Termina is most likely linked to the moon so this spider house must have been some kind of heretic doomsday group that wished for the moon to fall.
They have to hide from other humans so they build their temple of worship near the zoras and near the dekus.
Oceanside being the place they lived and the Swamp place being some kind or worshipping place.
Your comment got liked 69 times.
I always interpreted the Swamp Spider House to be a temple that was excavated by a group of some kind, hence the areas that appeared to be "under construction". The wooden areas are scaffolding similar to that seen in archaeological digs.
As for the Ocean Spider House, this place is very scholarly in appearance, with the library and even the message on the door that hints to a place seeking knowledge. With all the artifacts within the house, I assume this was the place where all that was taken to the from the swamp spider house temple was kept, and brought with them, the Spider's Curse. Perhaps, the missing eye jewel from the golden spider statue could even be be found in the Ocean House, further connecting two.
Whether or not this is an untold story of cult worshippers or just cursed scholars, hard to say, but I get some classic Indiana Jones/Archeological Adventure vibes from both locations.
honestly that was what I thought too, the ocean house looked more designed as an ancient library/museum/storage area the spider motif there might just be to fit objects on display that they have excavated from the swamp among possible other locations cut due to the development teams famously short schedule. The main room of the swamp one on the other hand is obviously a temple with the "unfinished" rooms feeling like they were slowly excavating from that main room. The wierdest part of this whole thing is how both ancient ruins are in better condition than most other ruins in the game... even the ones in similar conditions or even better ones! suggests that the spider house members were actually better mages than most. Suggesting Hylians over humans, Gorons or either of the forest tribes of the game, sadly also the Zora since even in BOTW their amazing structure is just constantly repaired as evidenced by the opal gathering side quest.
This changed my mind on the idea of the two!
The Ocean area has a scientist just offshore, so maybe there was some venture to the Swamp temple and they had some investigators. The curse could affect EVERYONE involved, since curses are weird and malleable with how they work based on malice or hatred. Since the studious house is more of a chamber to meet in and study, maybe a revival of some spider based belief system happened, or just a desire for treasure.
Which would explain why there are just...these two random coffins in the storage room of the Oceanside Spider House. Maybe they were dug up from underneath the giant tombstone in the Swamp Spider House and taken to the Oceanside Spider House for study?
@@Sarah_H That's a pretty good observation! Kind of makes for a missed opportunity to have a gibdo roaming about the place.
I think we are ignoring an important detail: spider infested places are signs of abandonment. There are japanese folklore that revolve around not taking care of your possessions and of abandoned buildings. The fact that Hirake is found on the decaying doors of the Great Bay Spider house is also meaningful in some why: maybe its curse comes from this "a closed/decaying building forced to be open/improved" since spiders build they could be seen as the ones improving it. Where in the Swamp Spider house that is a shrine, it is a place of worship where no one worships, these spiders could have brought "the curse" as they are now the occupants of the shrine, they are the ones who give the shrine purpose; their curse is a defense one not a malice one.
When I was a kid I was facinated by the ocean spider house and thought it was very homey and pretty. So much so I actually drew an expanded version of it with a few additional floors and bedrooms.
Wow no kidding? That's amazing! It does have a very cozy vibe to it ^^
Honestly, that’s a mood, and really cool. :)
It does seem like it could be very nice to live in.
Did you by chance upload the expanded maps somewhere? It would be neat to see how others interpreted the spider homes!
after watching this... there is only one thing you didnt touch on in relation to the skulltulla: the skulltulla tokens. they only appear AFTER a golden skulltulla is defeated/killed. the man at the ocean house will trade items for them, meaning they exist in other areas. (tangent for another day: why does that man WANT them?) tokens are generally used as a form of currency or credit for trade. no, i dont think the tokens are just "trophies" from the defeated skulltullas. the tokens must have a purpose, otherwise the man at the ocean house would not need or want them. one thing to note is that the tokens have a small flame like aura, reminiscent of souls. if the tokens contain the souls of the departed (which race's souls unknown), then that would give them great value as they could be used in some kind of ritual, possibly at the swamp house (really should be called a shrine or temple eh?). anywho... heart this comment if you see it don. if not... i may DM you later on discord about it.
Children who get lost in the forest also turn into Skull Kids. Maybe the houses were built by a group of Skull Kids, not necessarily the one who stole Majora's Mask. Though it's true that they don't really seem like the type to build underground temples, spiders do mostly appear in "forest" areas, like in Woodfall Temple and more notably the Lost Woods. It's not impossible that there's some connection there.
The Spider Houses make for one of my favorite parts of Majora's Mask, especially in terms of gameplay, so it's cool to see them covered! There's so much to uncover in Termina.
Or ppl just fascinated by the skull kid phenomena. Assuming it works the same way in termina
I’m always so excited when you post a video about majoras mask :)
I speak Japanese so I looked into some Japanese zelda forums about the grave in the swamp spider house and apparently it can be read as クモヤカタ シユシン ココニネムル or “kumo-yakata shiyushin kokoni nemuru” which means: “those who come from the spider house sleep here”. They also mentioned that it was a rare sight to see hyrule script written top down and read right to left (like traditional Japanese) as it is usually written horizontally left to right.
Note for other Japanese speakers: the forum posters mentioned that the “シユシン“ was dubious. My interpretation is that “出身” is the closest match since it makes sense contextually
シュシン can also mean 主神 which can either mean "chief god" or the person who lead rituals during the Dazaifu jurisdiction. Which would change the stone monument's meaning to imply that it is either a monument to their deity or to one of their religious leaders.
What I find dubious is if it really is シュシン or not because the latter two characters have a lot missing. I think I can see it, but the entire characters aren't there, like they had parts erased.
@@ginton1964 thanks, I think you’re right, 主神 makes more sense than 出身. It’s also more fun theory wise :)
The characters do seem to be written messily on purpose though. They almost look like they’ve been written by brush stroke to me.. and that plus the reading direction point definitely strengthens the claim of how ancient these places are.
That intro just makes me love Majora's Mask even more.
I'd love to watch just a video of different Termina landscapes with the Song of Healing playing in the background. Very cool.
Small thing but Hirake probably just refers to opening the door. It can be used like this in Japanese at least.
Ah gotcha. it's a bit of an obvious thing to put on a door, but it's definitely why it could be on there
@@MonsterMazeI mean... We put religious items on doors all the time tho.
What I really love about Zelda games in general is that freedom to come up with the lore behind settings. It really mimics that idea of stumbling upon some ancient, hidden location. At some point, it'll be practically impossible to piece together its origin exactly, so just viewing it as its own piece of isolated lore and history and appreciating the culture and set pieces is still insanely interesting and really helps build the world even more. Loved the video!
6:36 id really like to know why that skulltulla is moonwalking. this is a mystery that needs solving. it is imperative to the lore
This is a good theory research. My kids love to watch the spider house guys waving their hands up and down. Similar to the guy in Ocarina that loves to trade stuff. The guy just slaps his knees continuously.
Very nice looking thumbnail sir! Gonna watch this before having to head out for the train, brilliant timing! 🙏💪
Gonna watch your new TP theory tonight as well ^^!
I'm sorry pls unban me
Hell0
U do realize u just anger the admin right?
@@Cliffordlonghead I'm not following.. are you talking to me, or to Hyrule Gamer?
6:33 I love this part. The way you can hear the bomb explode muffled and dust falls from the ceiling in the next scene is perfection. XD
One theory I had was that the people who were in those houses were studying what happened so long ago. That would explain the four mask imagery, and why they would have the skull kid’s portrait on the wall; he’s the imp from legend. As for the spider imagery, A) the golden spiders were probably a really fascinating point of study, and B) it’s creepy. Creepy enough to symbolize both a manipulative cult, and creepy enough to keep other people out, since… well, they’d be skeeved. That was my theory as a kid, anyway.
I cracked up at the foundations shaking from the bomb. Good show, mate
@@thatname260ye Yeah, but the timing in the edit was brilliant
I love discussions about obscure topics like these!
I never think about the environments and videos like this show me how much nintendo cared about a narrative, even if a loose and obtuse one.
If you ever find the inspiration to do it, I'd love to hear (and see these gorgeous visuals) you talking about the Oracles games and even Four Swords Adventures (there are a lot of obscure lore details there).
Oh yeah I usually am quite oblivious to the environment as well when I first play games, haha. It isn't until some time later that I go back and see everything interesting I missed.
I'm definitely looking to cover more 2D zelda games. Only doing 3D games will no doubt get stale. The Oracle games also happen to be one of my favourites! ^^
@@MonsterMaze I'm not against 3D only too, especially when you bring topics like this one.
@@setteplays We play too focused on the mechanics and grinding. I'm totally oblivious to these elements prior to some youtuber making videos about them as well. xD
To me, the architectural secrecy and pomp combined with the card suits on the masks implies to me that this was a society of gamblers, like highest stakes possible yakuza types. Heads of four families meet at the four chairs, that sort of thing. Maybe they're all from outside Termina and they have a picture of the Skull Kid as he looked when they met him, though it may have been over many decades.
I think it's neat that the masks in the dining room have the different suits from a typical pack of cards. Four suits, four masks, four giants? Hmmm...
The oceanside spider house is one of my favorite areas in the series when it comes to atmosphere. It's so mysterious
"screw photosynthesis I suppose" at 07:57 has to be my favorite line here
you know what? i think they started in the ocean house, got rich through dog racing, and started building the swamp house. that's why it's so ornate.
love the vid.
I don’t think I realized how beautiful Majora’s Mask 3D looks until I saw this video. I’ll have to play it again and appreciate the textures & scenery more! Great video, as always!
Going on the notion of the ocean-side spider house being more 'homely', perhaps the idea about the group who made it potentially knowing about the Skull Kid bringing down the moon, so they made it, not for themselves, but for those in the future. As you said, the group isn't necessarily 'evil', so this could've been a place meant more for hope. After all the place seems to have everything a person could need to rebuild society after 'the end'. The only problem being that nobody who knew about it survived until the present day in Termina, and even then only one random guy happens across it at all, and only THEN if you clear the place out to begin with.
i always assumed the pictures were hanging there because the Curse was yet another thing he did with Majora's power
I thought that too at first. But whenever you find an obstacle in the game related to him, it has an icon of Majora on it. Like on blocks and balloons etc. Not a pic of Skull Kid.
@@MonsterMaze this flows nicely with the ancient chaos that Majora probably reaked upon Termina before he was imprisoned in the mask.
17:49 the first three characters on the left are almost definitely "kokoni", the second(?) character in the second column appears to be "yu", and I think the last symbols on the third column look like "eta", so it's almost certainly written in the Hylian script from the original versions of OoT and MM (before a bunch of it was replaced with Wind Waker's Hylian script).
>kokoni(?)(?)(?)
>(?)yu(?)
>(?)(?)(?)eta
"Koko ni" is "Here (object marker)", and "-eta" sounds like the ending of a verb to me, so maybe this is a common or stereotypical Japanese gravestone inscription transcribed in Hylian? Something along the lines of "Here lies a friend", or something like that?
Since it's translated into kanji I imagine it is supposed to be read from right to left so the last column is actually the first
I like to think Skullkid snuck in and changed the paintings to photos of himself, probably with a stolen picto box, it seems like something he’d do.
But when Link arrives, the house is walled up. Link has to blow up the wall. 💣 🧱
@@Arrowz_88 you think skullkid can't get into a house with Majora's mask without blowing up a wall? That kids got secret powers we can't fathom, he could be in my kitchen right now and I'd never know
@@Kazooples The wall was not blown up at all though. It had been sealed off long before Link entered the house.
@@Arrowz_88 There could be a back entrance we don't see in game, it's just a fun idea not a serious theory
@@Arrowz_88 Or he could just phase through. Or maybe he's the one who sealed up the wall? @Kazooples, definitely thought the same exact thing lol. That he claimed the house as his own for a little bit before getting bored of it.
Played this game, beat it a few times. Never occurred to me how truly SINCERELY creepy the silent young man in the field is. Only visible from the telescope. A ghost? Nah, those aren't real. Creepy.
Those four coloured masks have the symbols of playing card groups. One of the games you can play with playing cards is spider solitaire.
Coincidence. I think not.
But Spider Solitaire is not a four-player game
@@lanasmith4795 it's an isolated solitary location though. Plus given the references to Skull kid who was left alone by his four friends..
Still enjoying every single video you put out. The footage alone makes me appreciate the beauty, creativity and mystery behind this game so much. For the longest time I was convinced that OOT would remain my all time favourite videogame, but MM is definitely the most captivating.We'll never see a Zelda game like this again. I believe your conclusion about mystery and not knowing goes for the entire game. As we and Majora's Mask grow older, the story and the world in which it takes place seem to increase in space for philosophy and other question marks.
Any video that goes into something about Majora's Mask that hasn't already been talked about a million times is quite welcome by me. Loved it!
Wow the color in this game blow my mind
I bit my tongue laughing at Link putting a bomb next to the masked dude. The mark of excellent comedy lmao
You and Zeltik make the best Zelda content on RUclips, a tier above the rest. Keep it up and early congrats on 100,000 subscribers
Aah thank you! That means a lot to hear. Zeltik is an insanely good creator ^^
Skull kid paintings in the ocean house are interesting. The four masks in the "conference" room look like the giants, and we know that both are REALLY old.
Maybe the group have pictures of the Skull Kid because they knew what he did or was about to do, and so they were planning cursing him trying to lure him into their on-purpose-build fancy bases. Since the Skull Kid liked to steal and rob stuff, they figured he would check the places out.
Damn my english is crap
In The Majora's Mask Manga's there's a story explaining the origins of the Majora's Mask.I don't know whether it's canon or not but it says that a long time ago in some ruins in a desert there was a dragon who had this magic armour and everyone wanted a little bit of it,then this guy appears and tricks the monster into killing itself.He then carves a piece of the armour into the shape of a Mask.
The mask is the majora's mask,the guy probably represents The Fierce Deity and the dragon could be the spirit inside the mask itself.As for the desert area I believe that it's the stone tower temple,just before its construction.There's a lot of Mask symbolism in there come to think of it so I suspect it was built to strengthen the seal on the mask.The people who created it were the ancestors to the Garo who arrived from a portal in the surrounding area.They would quite likely use the place with all the strange cut outs hanging down as some sort of shrine or hideout and it would've served them well during the battle between them and The Ikana Kingdom!
That's my theory on this anyway!
Unfortunately the mangas are not canon but that's still interesting
@@astery5410 Thank you!
i think my favourite part of the zelda franchise are the ancient locations and backstories, playing zelda games and finding areas such as the spider houses or zonai statues from botw that provide lore in a way that doesn't fully explain everything is always such aunique experience that give this very strange melancholic sense of mystery that no other franchise can really replicate. it may be due to the darker tone of zelda games but the theories surrounding them have always intrigued me and this theory is an especially good one nice work.
It's remarkable how creepy and atmospheric this game is, even today. And some of the location designs are pure art, at times reminding me of Zdzisław Beksiński's work.
11:32 Except that Majora’s Mask uses a similar motif for the eyes as the Fused Shadow Mask which was made by the Twili. Even the Ikana and Garo are similar to the dynamic of the Royal Hyrulian Family and the Yiga, whose leader oddly enough uses the same fight style as the Garo’s leader.
Just a random thought, but what if the reason they have the paintings of skull kid is because they were studying the curse of the lost woods that gave him immortality(if skull kids are just children that get lost in the woods)? They may have wanted to try to reproduce the immortality effect without losing their memories or minds and ended up making the spider's cure. Another possibility is that they were trying to find a way to reverse the curse on skull kid, and they decided that the best way to do that was to figure out how curses worked in general. This study led to the creation of the spiders curse. Just a theory.
When I first played MM3D I was so taken with the spider houses because they're just so visually striking. I know odds are they were never meant to have any sort of definitive story, but these contained little environments are so unique and detailed it makes you want to find one
If I had played the game when I was younger I can easily see myself going in there to just hang out and run around for hours
Ocarina of Time & Majoras Mask
both gave me unique feelings
for the first time as a Gamer.
Praise the nostalgia. \ [T] /
Maybe the four giants were once "human" the equivalent of the Hyrulian sages and that the spider religion was started from a slinter group from the people who created the stone tower. They left because they saw that The Tower was dark and malicious but as they gathered knowledge and practiced magic trying to guide the people of Termina and they created something like a Triforce, maybe the tower finished developing a weapon or artifact that would ultimately result in the fall of Termina so without much time to prepare they used the artifact to help give them the ability to "create" Termina which ultimately led them to changing into lesser deities which guided the people of Termina effectively creating the region not physical from the ground up but from a civilization similar to how Hylia guided the people of Hyrule.
The curse could be a byproduct of not preparing the ritual correctly as we have all seen in previous Zelda games on what happens why you mess up a ceremony or spell. It'd also explain the skullkid photos everywhere a regret or maybe a failed attempt at divinity?
But anyways I hope what I wrote made sense but I loved the video I always look forward to them.
Freakin’ love the Skulltula’s, even have one tattooed on my hand!
13:57 I think that time passes differently between Termina and Hyrule kinda like a Narnia thing, and Skull Kid is unaffected by it. When he was originally banished from Termina by the Giants he might have been in Hyrule for a relatively short amount of time but centuries had passed in Termina, which shows why he’s present in the Ocean Spider House and Granny’s story about the Giants but is also in the Lost Woods during the child years of OoT and the prologue of MM.
"Hirake" in this case likely means "to be opened up" as, you know, it's a door.
6:33 The repeating gag with the bomb had me rolling :'D the subtle muted explosion sound after the scene cuts away.
I always liked Spider Houses and the mystique around them. And I like their architecture.
6:34 Ah, I see Link has taken to the ways of the Garo.
I certainly can believe that the Ocean Spider House could have been somebody's home once. Maybe a home that got buried under the ground at some point.
It seems odd that there's only two spider houses and not four. Everything is in fours, in balance. I wonder if there was originally supposed to be four, one in each quadrant, but then two got cut. If so, I'd think that maybe it was a group of four friends who visited each other in their respective homes.
I always enjoy your theory videos 💕
They have a beginning, the history - a middle, what happend - and an ending, your thoughts on it. Always with images or videos. I just love your way of making videos, you spoil us 😁
The masks on the wall at 13:27 also have symbols depicted on them. They look like those from playing cards, as in poker and alike. I don't know if this is relevant though, but it's a neat little detail.
Prob some of the highest quality MM footage you can find.
Mad respect.
2:21 “iS ThAt A zONaI SwIRL!?!?”
Spiders were always feared and seen as a symbol of mischief and malice due to the slow death given by their venom.
This is the reason why spiders are mostly seen as a curse but some worshipped them like a cult either for affection or as a sign of respect.
I am certain that Skulltulas are spiders just for the reason that its association with curses is burned in our heads for ages by now.
Uuuuuhhhhh not always true... In West Africa, there's a the god ananzi the god of knowledge who takes the form of a spider.
@@jameskosusnik1102 i should have phrased it different: some worshipped them like a god and some like a cult etc.
My comment was directed to the theory of a spider cult in Zelda so I wrote it like that.
In watching your video, I feel that rather than unfinished, the swamp house just looks buried. In fact both of them do, which might give some context to their age. They are so old that the structures became buried underground, with only portions of them remaining or later investigations unearthing them. The tomb and the like might have originally been outdoors.
Perhaps this was a demo area created by one of the programmers. Ultimately it wasn't used for the town or a dungeon or the story but it was kept for a side quest. Like most good creators, the Majora's Mask developers probably kept trying to pack more and more into the game before they had to ship it.
Fun answers only please!
@@Marcosberto2 OK. What if the ocean house was where the giants used to live when they were younger (and smaller). Playing cards was a favorite pastime. Perhaps they simply outgrew the place. Have you seen the size of that gravestone And they had pictures on the wall of their favorite friend. Or he magicked all of the photos in the house to be himself as a prank at some point.
Maybe they are the gold skulltula? that would explain why you had to defeat them and collect their souls to break the curse (ya know by killing the casters). their reason for doing all this was they're a crazy cult. (But that last part makes it less fun.)
Skull Kid is pretty badass, he has two fairies and we have never seen any characters in the series with two of them.
Not to mention fairy users are all kokiris except Link.
So if he is not a deity he is pretty close to one
I'm surprised more people haven't talked about these houses.
I'd forgotten about them...
Theres a lot of majora immagery in the stone tower and the secret shrine (giant statue in stone tower and a bunch of heart shaped masks in the secret shrine) thats why people think they where build by the tribe that majora created, i personally believe that the shrine was where majoras masks was kept originally before the salesman discovered the mask.
While I can´t say much about the ocean spider house, I do have a theory concerning the swamp house. My favorite zelda boss in terms of fun and stupidity has always been Odolwa. The moment I saw him and heard his sounds, I couldn´t help but pause the game and laugh. But aside from that, I always felt like the bosses from Majoras Mask had a bigger meaning to them. They seem so perfectly connected to their surroundings that they can´t be created by Majora only. Maybe they once were ancient beings that lived in Termina alongside the other tribes. Especially Odolwa seems to be a king who controls his own army of bugs, dragonflies, spiders and so on. I believe that he once used the spider house as some kind of treasure house or even lived there. Since Woodfall temple seems to have been built by the Deku tribe, I belive that Odolwa once inhabited the spider house and his army, that we see around and inside the house were guardians. The stone could be his grave and he simply got resurrected by Majora who used his face/mask as a prison for the giant of the swamp.
I don´t know if this sounds plausible but I always thought about Odolwas role in the swamp area. Maybe I get some kind of agreement or additions
Something that you could consider about the pictures of Skull Kid is that you could consider him some kind of warding signal. Often times images of saints, benevolent spirits or gods are used to ward off evil. So why not a being of chaos and mischief to ward off the eyes of things that would interfere? Perhaps invoking his image is meant to ward off those that would impose order on them like guards or enemy wizards?
I feel like the happy mask salesman could have been involved somehow with the ocean side one. He knows that the skull kid took his mask so perhaps he was studying him..and the house is mask themed after all. Not to mention the salesman himself is very secretive and mysterious in nature.
Interesting to see how much details to the enviroment can be overlooked when casually playing zelda or any game
Good stuff. Unique Zelda theories seem to be in short supply these days.
If you’re looking for more material, I have an in depth theory about how and why the mummified corpse in the BOTW2 trailer is really…. Groose.
Keep up the good work. It helps to have something to keep me entertained until we get some more news on the new game.
Cheers
Mummified Groose confirmed!
Some of these theories are out there but ill be damned if they don’t map perfectly over the sense of mystery depth and mystery I would feel playing these games as a child. The ability of the absolute wizards that created these games ability to tap into archetypal themes that I believe exist in the collective subconscious of everyone cannot be understated. And you are brilliant for your ability to articulate it. Lovely content
Can we just TALK about how amazing that music for the beginning of the chapter 'The Spiders' Curse'?
It's awesome, Monster Man!
Sarcophagi. This is why I watch Monster Maze. Education at its finest, my man. Thanks for the new knowledge.
I love that all the comments on videos like this one are always grammatically correct and have capitalizations where they ought to be.
It should be noted that game development wise, both the Swamp Spider House as well as Beneath the Well are maps that were initially created for Ocarina of Time but ultimately scrapped for that game (as last year's gigaleak shows). Now for Majora's proper, we don't know if the Oceanside house was created first and then the then scrapped map was reused second or even the other way around, but I do think that this is probably the reason why both Spider House maps ultimately don't really match all that much in purpose or anything other than being sidequests, really, which granted, the devs probably never thought much about either with the very limited time they had to put Majora's Mask together.
This video made me realize that the Majora's Mask has four pairs of spikes in its lower half and one pair on top, that when looked upside down COULD be interpreted as a spider with its eight legs and two pedipalps...
Since we know that Skull Kid is ancient and mischievous, I think it's quite possible that he played a prank on the residents of the Spider House. I think that those picture frames initially had very different pictures in them. And then Skull Kid either replaced them all or painted his face over them, like a graffiti tag. The "I was here" of ancient Termina, if you will.
It can't be proven of course, but I like the idea of us wondering what happened there, if it's a prophecy or whatnot, and then it's all been an April's Fool prank from thousands of years ago.
here is an interesting theory what if the two places werent spider themed in the first place but were in fact cursed as well? slowly over time changing into a more spider themed place and all the gold skulltulas are the inhabitants! for all we know the cursed guy could be midway thru transforming
Monster Maze, the aliens created Termina, and built the spider houses. That's why they needed milk. You see, Gorman was out of it, the aliens bribed him to steal the zora eggs and sell them to the pirates. Self sabotage.... but the aliens still got their milk.
I like how the main meeting room in the Ocean Spider House has 4 masks over the fireplace with 4 chairs with each color matching the 4 temples and 4 giants in the game.
The spiderhouses might just be separate, video game-y levels, but I think the designers probably had some kind of lore they built up around them amongst themselves. Thanks for some food for future theories!
I feel like maybe they were just creepy spider loving people, maybe they preferred darkness (no windows in either house). Built the ocean house to live and then wanted to build another, much more fancy house around a cool "monument" they found in their research (mega library), only to realise too late that its some cursed tomb, the curse killed them all or turned them into what they loved, spiders. This is why the second house is unfinished and why the curse only seems to linger in the woodland house.
For some reason I always remembered there being 3 spider houses, but thinking about it I can only remember the location of these two. I don't know why I haven't been able to get the thought of a third one out of my head after all these years.
16:00 I just noticed the colors of the 4 masks. Red, blue, green, yellow. They can refer to the Triforce. Green courage, red power, blue wisdom, and yellow or gold to the Triforce itself.
Or the four giants; green swamp, red mountains, blue ocean, yellow canyon. Shooting ('disrespecting') them being the key to the hidden room ties into the revered Skull Kid theme perhaps?
@@SunScourge oh yeah the colors could indeed be referring to those parts of the map with the giants 👍
got a much less interesting theory. Look closely and you'll see the playing cards suits (heart, spade, diamond and club). Seems like instead of having cult meetings there these guys just loved playing some poker
I was 12 when this game first came out. Me and my best friend would watch his older brother play this game. I finally saved up for a used N64 from the pawn shop and the 1st game I bought was ocarina of time when I was 14 and have become obsessed with ocarina of time and majoras mask ever since. One thing I remember back when we used to watch him play the game is there was an NPC standing next to the door inside the skulltula house on the right side. It wasn't any of the 5 cursed spiders but someone else. Has anyone else seen this??
I'm quite late, but I wanted to throw my hat in the ring. From what little I've learned watching videos on archaeology, architectural differences can tell us a lot about how a culture evolves. Given the strong and relatively consistent symbolism of the spider, I'd reckon that they're both from the same cultures, however far back they may be. Based on pure aesthetic, the Swamp House seems much older to me than the Ocean House. One big thing I note is the usage of stone architecture. Most of what appears to be the main temple of the Swamp House is stonework, and what little isn't (if I'm not mistaken) are from the wood platforms of the "unfinished" areas. But I actually have another theory on those. Notably, the wood seems much newer. This could be overspeculation, but perhaps this wasn't under construction but instead excavation. An ancient structure dedicated to the spider and buried under the changing landscape. As time progressed, the culture/society that had developed then rediscovered their people's old temple and began researching more, hence the Ocean House. The coloring of the masks screams the symbolism of the 4 peoples of Termina: Goron (Red), Zora (Blue), Deku (Green), and Ikana (Yellow). Perhaps the ancient people of each region met to study the spider's curse, and were all perhaps connected to the ancient civilization of the spider who had built the Swamp House's temple. This would also explain the vast shift on theme from vibrant stonework to darker Victorian architecture. Some sort of religion or cult may have decided to continue the spider's legacy, but crawled too close to the truth. Perhaps the ones who had built the Swamp House's temple were indeed related to the Stone Tower's creators, and perhaps they were connected to the Sheikah. Based on other theories, prrhaps they were even related to the Interlopers spoken of in Twilight Princess. Perhaps it was all left abandoned by people who tried so hard to play Gods that the Goddesses themselves intervened, and their past left to fall under the dirt of the swamp. Their scars leaving such grievous wounds that even those who seek to understand what they knew will find themselves lost in curses and sorrow.
It could also maybe do with some kind of deity that has spiders as their sacred animal or something?
In my current playthrough of The Minish Cap I've noticed that there are four masks in the Mayor's house that seem similar to the masks in the Spider House here in Majora's Mask. I'm not sure if you can make any connections there (maybe not) but I thought I'd make a mention here for good measure.
Oh that is interesting. Gonna have to find a screenshot of that!
@@MonsterMaze I posted a reply with a link but I dont think RUclips's censorship program took too kindly to that :P
I found an image of the mayor's house interior showing two masks on the wall on a shelf serving as an obstacle for Minish Link.
The only resemblance that I see now that I am looking at them are the fact that they are wall ornaments and they are red and blue like the masks in the spider house as seen in your video.
There probably definitely isn't any connections... but yeah. hope I'm not wasting your time here xD
I like the whole joke of rooting for the guys in the spider houses just to place a bomb next to them and walk off non chalantly afterwards, links straight face says it all
Oddly enough I always was sure that skull kid was seen as something like a powerful spirit. And maybe skull kid was worshipped before he caused trouble
I love your videos, they're so well made. Thank you for your work!
And thank you for watching them!
The golden house is for average patrons , and the library house is for the priesthood.
But the reason they fell is because they were cursed by their evil intentions.
Spider webs are known as a symbol for diabolical manipulation.
Skull Kid went to the library because it was safe , and found out how to use masks.
Granted he needed the power in Majora's mask to do it , but he still knew how.
Even being able to withhold a masks creation and turn it into a curse.
That secret room has the same trippy colors as Majora's final boss room.
That might actually be the place where Skull Kid unlocked Majora's mask.
And appeared in front of you afterwards just to taunt you.
Given that he's not much of an artist , it seems like he tested the waters with artworks.
alternate explanation for the Skull Kid paintings: Skull kid found the house one day, went and saw a bunch of paintings of old guys, and swapped them out for paintings of himself.
The room with the four masks is tarot. It's some sort of strange play on the triforce. The three colors are present & gold. The Heart is cups meaning emotion, the blue spade a sword meaning mind, the clubs are rods which is about personal capably. The diamond is all about pentacles. Also I. The opening the spider has 8 eyes, with blue gems. Meaning the 8 sages. I believe the spider image is the image of this world's royal family, instead of the bird. Which it is weird you mean the forest temple. There are theories the room with the paintings fight again shadow Ganon is a sacred realm room or some how links as a portal to somewhere else.
My theory is that the Garo made the Spider Houses, Ikana sent Troops to check one out, the paintings of the skull kid could either be a Skull Kid Prank, or that the Garo were onto Skull kids Dimension hopping nature and became obsessed with him. as far as the geography goes of bolth locations, the point at which they meet is Milk Road. where the trio of Brothers live who give you the Garo Mask in the first place are. it could be that theyre the descendants of the residents of these two houses. whether or not the brothers know about their lineage or about the spider houses can only be speculated. but itd also give their seeming blood fued with the romanis an extra layer.
This is off topic (via game), but I always had a theory that the OoT Skulltula house were either related to Bongo Bongo (I always associated Bongo with the inventor or inspiration for the Lens' creation) when he was alive, but the Sheikah may have cursed the whole family. Specifically a curse laid for entrapping and preying on the wealth of others, spiders creeping down to claim their prey in the web.
The video was neat, though! I never gave those ones much thought at all til now- I just assumed it was "Here's that minigame again, bud."
For the "HIRAKE" engraving, I like to think it's a pun from the developer and/or the artist, since it's on a door that is supposed to be opened by the player.
Regarding the paintings, even if they idolized Skull Kid in any way, I find it unlikely that every painting in their house would show the same image. I always liked to think that this was actually a prank by Skull Kid, making every painting in the house show his face instead of the original. It would be pretty funny!