I don't think it was ever meant to be an origin story for the triforce, considering in the exact same image of Zelda holding it, she's already wearing an emblem of the full triforce on her dress, implying that the full triforce has existed as a concept for some time already.
Agreed i feel the use of the words "Wisdom and Courage" during the game's prologue might have been a red herring on the part of Fujibayashi and Aonuma in an attempt to tease players with an ambiguous connection to either of the 2 aforementioned Triforce pieces. For all we know the Light Force could very well be a fourth Triforce piece which is passed down through Hylia's bloodline yet has no direct connection whatsoever with either of the 3 Triforce pieces.
The Origen story of the Triforce was a part of A Link to the Past already, this Origen Story has been chronologically put before Skyward Sword, and Minish Cap takes after Skyward Sword
Yea, I agree. It doesn't hold much water. It's not only inside of her, but it's apparently passed down through the bloodline. But, the theory is out there. @@psuedonym9999
Force gem theory is fun. She already had the blood of the goddess, the minish just went and put a magical super battery in her blood. No wonder she's capable pulling off some wild magic bs without help from the triforce.
Perhaps the Triforce are the 'force gems' of the Golden Goddesses and the Light Force is that of Hylia. It's a neat retcon if Fujibayashi ever inteded it.
If that's the case that would confirm the "Tetraforce" and cement Hylia as the newly discovered _fourth_ Golden Goddess directly related to the 3 who created the Zelda universe.
@@samuxan It could also be a sign/symbol of their connection to a "fourth power" as per Hylia been a fourth Golden Goddess in her own right. Hopefully Aonuma will someday reconsider bringing back the Light Force in a future game to explicitly address it's true nature once and for all.
@@javiervasquez625 Actually it still wouldnt make much sense for the existance of a fourth Piece, the Three Pieces of the Golden Goddesses combined grands you infinite power. What benefit would you get from a fourth piece if you already have infinite power from just three? It is mathenatically Impossible get above infinity.
@@Chris-gx1ei That's exactly what i thought when i first thought about the possibility of the Light Force been Hylia's fourth Triforce piece only to realize the lack of a purpose for a fourth piece given the seemingly omnipotent power that the 3 pieces grants... until i also realized they *don't* actually grant _true omnipotence_ as proven in the story of A Link to the Past. ¿Remember back during the Imprisoning War when a complete Triforce-powered Ganondorf was STILL unable to escape the Sacred Realm despite possessing the 3 combined essences of the 3 Golden Goddesses in his hands? He had to concoct an elaborate plan to escape involving creating a puppet "avatar" tasked with sending the descendants of the 7 Sages into the Sacred Realm to weaken the Seal until it was weak enough for him to escape and use the Triforce to lay conquest over the entire Zelda world. If the Triforce truly has infinite power as you say Ganondorf could easily have used it's omnipotence to break him free from the Sacred Realm in an instant without having to wait for the Seal's weakening in order to carry out a plan that would allow him to escape. ¿Could the reason why the Triforce did NOT grant Ganondorf true omnipotence to escape the Sacred Realm be due to him lacking the missing fourth Triforce piece hidden within Hylia's bloodline...? Food for thought.
There's another triforce. The triforce of capitalism. Tingle and Beedle always hold a piece, but the final piece has changed hands many times- some owners include Malo, Zunari, and of course Morshu.
I have a migraine and I'm so grateful how you use dark mode screenshots of websites where possible and describe images/read off quotes shown on the screen so I can look away from the screen or close my eyes and still be able to enjoy this awesome video! I know you work hard on these visuals and I will absolutely rewatch this once the migraine has passed but it means a lot that your videos are so accessible and bring me a lot of comfort.
I have an idea on the whole "the origin of Link's Cap" in Minish Cap. The Hero of Men in the intro is without a cap, but in Skyward Sword it covers the origin of Link's outfit and cap. The story of the cap is that Skyward Sword Link has his cap as part of his uniform as well as what everyone else who graduated wears aside from the colors, the cap doesn't really have any specific meaning behind it by itself, which could explain why the Hero of Men doesn't wear a cap, its was irrelevant. Its wasn't until the Minish Cap that gave Link's cap a symbolic meaning (due to the cap literally becoming his companion), hence why every Link after has a cap as part of their outfit.
@@chadicuschaximus1071 That's how I would make sense of it. The only part of the Hero of the Sky's outfit that carried over to the Heroes of Men and the Minish (as well as the rest of the series) is his tunic and I don't know why the cap fell to the wayside by the time the Hero of Men came around. Perhaps it was as simple as the Hero of Men deciding not to wear a cap or the royals, the citizen of Hyrule, or even the divine didn't put much attention to the cap and that would had been something going forward for the rest of the timeline had it not been for the Minish Cap.
80s/90s game devs: "Wait, fans want games to be connected? And lore? And no contradictions in the stories? Can't they just be happy with another game?"
Yeah because TOTK didn't bring much to talk about so they can't really make theories about it. They thus need to talk about older games, which have been talked about a lot.
@@Zogef1996I dunno, I think there's a theory to be had that Tears of the kingdom actually undoes the retconns made by OOT and SS. The original story of the imprisoning war (as told on the downfall timeline) says that ganondorf got the (complete) triforce from a vision and either durring or in the aftermath of sealing him away in the dark realm, the sages made the master sword for a future decendant of hylian knights. Aonuma did say that SS isn't always the beginning of the timeline, while TOTK was in development...
@@siraaron4462 Do you have a _source_ for that second paragraph? You're just been another A.J. Thomas by copy-pasting the same comment over and over again without an actual source to back it up so i would be grateful if you could provide me with a source for this information regarding the original story surrounding Ganon's claim over the Triforce and the following creation of the Master Sword.
this opens new ideas for me regarding totk's lore: sonia seemingly not having light power despite probably being a goddess descendant, rauru having light power which resembles the power of the triforce, and zelda's light power being retconned to have been from rauru (a zonai man) rather than the goddess's female bloodline. thanks for another awesome video 🙏
The sages having a hand in the creation of the Master Sword could still work with the events of Skyward Sword. Hylia could have tasked the ancient sages to forge the Goddess Sword.
An idea that's strongly supported by the Sage emblems being on the ceiling of the Sealed Temple's vestibule. A popular theory is that six Sages served Hylia in her time (with her essentially being the Seventh), and they helped to create the Goddess Sword. I like to headcanon further that they're the Sages we see in TP, and are essentially the "essences" of the Sages who merge with others to "awaken" them as Sages when needed.
@@Romalac, Raaru could have been one of the ancient sages back then. Twilight Princess is agreed to be set around a century after Ocarina of Time in the Child Timeline. With how long Zora lifespans are, Ruto should be alive during Twilight Princess. Yet, she isn’t the new Zora queen, her half-brother, Ralis, becomes Zora king. And since Ganondorf kills the Sage of Water during the failed execution, he killed Ruto.
Except the full story tells that during the imprisoning war ganondorf, obtained the full triforce from a vision. Either durring or in the aftermath of said war, the sages made the master sword for a future decendant of hylian knights. This whole story is only ever told on the downfall timeline and would be retconed out of existence by OOT.... Or so we thought. Aonuma did say that SS isn't always the beginning of the timeline durring TOTK's development...
@@Romalac That theory about the Sages from Twilight Princess been THE Sages who first existed in Hylia's Era is interesting yet it's countered by official concept art from Twilight Princess showing early sketches of the Sages based on the ones seen in Ocarina of Time implying them to be the very same characters. While it's still a possibility i doubt Aonuma and co. outright consider the very first 7 Sages in the timeline to have played a role in the Goddess Sword's creation.
@@brandonbaggaley2317 Queen Rutela CANNOT be Ruto's mother as the "Zora Queen" from Ocarina of Time was already _dead_ by the events of the game hence Ruto speaking of her mother as if she had already passed away. Taking into account the rather legendary status that Ganondorf's imprisonment within the Twilight Realm has in this Era's Hyrule it's safe to assume it's been far _longer_ than a mere century.
In ALBW, we learn that the Triforce holds the universe together, and my headcanon is that it does so by giving off a specific energy- Force. Force then congeals into the various elements (which we see with the crystallized Elements/Royal Jewels), as well as Life Force and, by extension, souls. Wishing on the Triforce involves hijacking this "Force field" to reshape reality with it, hence why doing so properly involves having a strong, balanced will, and an improper user causes the Force field to essentially rebound on the Triforce, causing a Cataclysm. The Light Force, as I see it, was a creation of the ancient Minish that was essentially an attempt to replicate the function of the now-sealed Triforce. As suggested in the video, it's essentially an extremely powerful variant of Force Gem, hence why it can bend the background Force field somewhat to grant wishes.
I believe the light force is just that, a force. The Triforce is itself like the Mirror of Twilight, an object. But not a tangible object, it's seen appearing in places like The Silent Realm waters, it's as real as sky is blue. Which sky isn't. Triforce was left behind as a refraction of reality BECAUSE the goddesses left, it's intrinsic to the the fact that they did. Which I don't even believe was the beginning of the universe, just the beginning of some realms in it. I believe Triforce and the timeline split exist in conjunction, it was not meant to be Three, originally, because back in the day they ONLY were telling the story of a single one of the tripartite realm, the Fallen timeline. Touching the triforce really just disturbs the origin point of the timeline split, not the BS invention that time somehow AUTOMATICALLY "split" because time travel occurred. That's idiotic, it's like honestly thinking if you travel in SPACE, planets just appear when you reach them. Kids learn better object permanency at age four. When you adjust the timeline events in ONE of the splits, it draws mass and energy from the OTHER timelines, because something you did in one timeline loses the possibility to happen when you get a retry in another, a new possibility. It's equivalent exchange. This matches the kind fo mechanistic thinking, the sci-fi angle Nintendo NEEDS to enjoy in order to invent something like the Ultrahand. That's why Four Swords Adventure also MUST align in palcement with the other Fujibayashi games, because characters like Dark Links ARE manifestations of possiblity that playable Link drew away from. It's your failures as a hero if you DON'T get retries, while Zelda's time power, is the Legend ABOUT that universal kindness of getting them. The sacrifice and the give and take when some divinity will wait for you, to set things right.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 I should point out that just because the Deku Tree said "the goddesses left" after creating the Zelda universe that does not make it so given the Deku Tree's own lack of certainty as to the accuracy of that statement. Taking into later depictions of the creation of the Triforce such as in Twilight Princess it is heavily implied that the Triforce ARE THE GOLDEN GODDESSES after the 3 *fused* together to become the golden triangle. Seeing as A Link to the Past and the Oracle games confirm the Triforce to have the ability to _speak_ as a sentient being it's quite plausible that the reason why the existence of the Triforce is necessary to keep the entire Zelda universe together is because the Golden Goddesses _themselves_ are the ones who are directly holding everything from within the Triforce itself.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 Did the goddesses truly leave? Maybe they became or were the Triforce pieces themselves from the start, or kind of died and left behind their very powerful essence, their force gems: The Triforce pieces.
@@MagnaP Both A Link to the Past and Twilight Princess hint at such possibility with A Link to the Past confirming the Triforce to be _sentient_ (as in it's able to speak like a thinking being) and Twilight Princess explicitly showing the 3 goddesses _fusing together_ to create the complete Triforce. Adding further evidence for this scenario we also have A Link between Worlds revealing that should the Triforce be destroyed like it happened to Lorule's Triforce the very fabric of *reality* will tear itself appart implying the Triforce to be the very source of _Order_ in the entire Zelda world... ¿Which deities were responsible for giving order to the world as shown during the Deku Tree's story in Ocarina of Time?
Maybe the sky people are similar to the real life sea people who existed during the bronze age collapse. Zelda games are based on legends, so maybe there is no game that is 100% historically accurate. Maybe there was only ever one group who lived in the sky, but one era told tales of them being Hylians who lived in the sky, the other era told stories of them being small chicken people, etc.
I like to think that there's a connection between the Zonai and the Picori/Minish. Other than the differences between their sizes and colorations, they have a similar body shape.
Love seeing Minish Cap coverage, it's the best one out of the 2D Zelda games in my opinion. I will die on that hill! Hopefully, someday we'll get a proper explanation for the Light Force. Similar to the Zonai and their Secret Stones, which were said to be gifts from the gods themselves and were NOT created by the Zonai, I think the Picori and the Light Force are in the exact same boat. Beings from the heavens bringing the people of the surface gifts from the gods.
But which "gods" could they be? I doubt this gifts come directly from the 3 Golden Goddesses as nothing in the games suggest they did and yet at the same time the series has been very iffy in regards of wether there are other deities and "kami" as they're called in Japan living in the Heavens alongside the Golden Goddesses to pinpoint them as the gods responsible for all these gifts been brought into the mortal world.
@@javiervasquez625Besides the three Golden Goddesses taking up the Elder Gods role, do we even have any other New Gods other than Hylia and the Four Giants of Termina (whose exact role is hard to pin down)? All the others seem to be Lesser Gods, even ones like the Wind Fish, never mind Jabu Jabu and the Deku Tree. We don't really know who the Desert Colossus's Goddess of Sand (whose Japanese name suggests she might not be a real goddess at all) is supposed to be or where she would fall. Maybe other lands or worlds have other New Gods they interact with besides Hylia. But we don't see them because the stories focus on Link, Zelda, and Hyrule. I don't recall of Hilda's Lorule had their own version of Hylia? But, probably a Lolia or Loria.
@@DanielMWJ By "Elder Gods" are we talking about the same deities from Mortal Kombat? Not sure i see the context in using such a term to refer to the highest deities in the Zelda pantheon so excuse me for not understanding your intent in using such a term. As for the existence of other such divine beings appart from the 3 goddesses the japanese version of Skyward Sword has Demise refer to a so called _God Tribe_ outright confirming the existence of other such deities seperate from either the 3 goddesses and Hylia who Demise hates to the point of condemning Hylia's bloodline to an eternal conflict with the _Demon Tribe_ which will forever birth Demon Kings/Ganondorfs for eternity. Magical beings such as the Wind Fish, Deku Tree and Goddess of the Sand (who some fans believe might be a reinterpretation of Din) are all indeed lesser deities/gods who's existence as _physical_ beings who dwell in the mortal realm makes them seperate from the high deities who dwell in the "God Realm" high above the skies of the Zelda world from which the Oocca, Minish and Lokomo hail from. I got no clue regarding the existence of any "New Gods" so like your previous mention of Mortal Kombat's Elders Gods i am at a loss as to what your comment is attempting to say. Termina, the World of the Ocean King and Lorule are their own seperate dimensions with their own seperate pantheons meaning they're most definetly bound by their own seperate gods and deities who dwell in the respective God Realms of their respective dimensions making them completley seperate from Hyrule's dimension's God Tribe.
@@javiervasquez625 Elder gods are a general concept. They're usually just part of creation myths and origin stories of the gods. Also might be incomprehensibly alien, powerful, weaker than the New Gods somehow, dead, retired, literally part of the world, or absent from the world. The New Gods are just the ones that are actively presiding over the world, having come into power after older gods (and in religions, are typically the ones worshipped most often). Usually anthropomorphic to a high degree. Really, it seems like the God Tribe aren't very powerful individually (besides Hylia herself), because their modus operandi seems to be to send intermediaries (guardian spirits, etc.) And Chosen Ones to help or to do HUGE sweeping things like flooding Hyrule with magic water.
Formulated my own theory while watching. I do agree that perhaps Capcom had originally intended for Minish Cap to be a sort of origin story, with the Light Force meant originally to be related to the Triforce in some way, but the rest of the canon later in the series retconned that, but I believe I have a lore-respecting way to explain what it is. What if the Light Force isn’t a physical thing at all, and is just a different way to refer to something we already know of? Vaati extracts the Light Force from Princess Zelda in a very similar way to how Ghirahim and Demise extract Hylia’s power from Zelda in Skyward Sword, what if the Light Force is just the power of the goddess the royal family, specifically Princesses, posses? Minish Cap, relatively speaking, takes place very early in Hyrule’s post-establishment history. The knowledge of the Triforce seems to be largely lost, but imagery still exists, as you said, in a similar fashion to how it does in the era of Breath of the Wild. Relatively speaking, Zelda and Link returning to the surface to eventually lead to Hyrule’s founding was recent news in the time of the Minish Cap. My theory is that the people of Hyrule, knowing that Zelda is related to the goddess Hylia in the early years of the kingdom, and also knowing of the Triforce, associated all godly powers with golden triangles. Over time, the Triforce itself is lost, as well as knowledge of the goddess Hylia and her relation to the Hyrulean Royal Family, however it’s still vaguely known that princesses in the family possess light powers, even if they don’t know how or why they have them. I’m essentially saying that the “Light Force” is just the power granted by Hylia’s blood in Hyrulean princesses, just known as a new name in a new era. After all, history is often told in different ways as information is lost and/or recovered across time, so it definitely would make sense.
Wonder if the "Sealing Power" (which is clearly the Triforce) from Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom may just be the same thing with no one in the current Hyrule been aware of it's origin and true nature.
Thank you for actually acknowledging that the games are just legends. So many people like to just ignore that and treat every game like fact. As someone who really loves mythology that has always been my favorite thing about this series and a big part of why I love theorizing about it, you have to look at the bigger picture and the more nebulous connections between things, because if you try to take everything at face value, nothing will line up, just like real mythos.
I really like how you went back and looked at older theories about this stuff from when the games came out and before the official timeline. I fondly remember poking around in forums at the time & hearing this kind of stuff. Looking at the history of theories on a topic is a novel approach I’d like to see more of actually
7:06 Sure, I'd love to go back to the 2000s lol. The world was (or rather, seemed) a lot less complicated than it is today. Its maybe my nostalgic feelings for my childhood talking, but the 2000s were a golden age for gaming and animation in my opinion.
Since the minish come from another realm, it is possible the Golden Light is a Triforce equivalent from their dimention. We know other realities exist with their own triforce equivalents now so it's not too much of a leap that the Pikari world also has them. They travel over to the Hylian realm on a set schedule with a large gap between so it would make sense they bring one of their Triforce as protection. This explains why it's just the one triangle and why their realm doesn't collapse like in Lorule. While the golden light exist in Hyrule, the other two parts are still keeping the realm alive and thriving. It could even be possible that the Golden light part of their triforce is what is enabling the Dimention crossing. The Triforce has been long tied to time, space and reality with different dimensions, time travel and willful influences on dimentions. It was the Triforce that Gannon used to shape the Golden realm into his dark realm and was in the process of merging with the main realm in Link to the past. It is very possible that the Golden Light is the Triforce of the Pikari that holds control over interdimentional magics.
Apparently not really, this means Zelda would actually be Omnipotent, yet it still shows that even after Vaati extracted most of the Force out of Zelda he was basically able to manipulate Reality by first letting Link fall down only for him to appear in the Room where he fought the Darknuts which is the Room right Before the Altar of Vaati's Ritual, then he can change the entire Battlefield via reality changing, and at last he can suddenly teleport you onto another Battlefield somwhere in Outaspace. While not being really Omnipotent the Light Force sure has Reality Changing Properties on a Cosmic Scale. Which makes however Ganon even more Scarier if you think about it. The Four Sword defeated Vaati Three times when he was in his Prime (one time was Offscreen between Minish Cap and Four Swords) and then over Time he himself became weak enough to be vanquished once and For all by the Four Sword in Four Swords Adventures, and then after that you inmediately fight a reincarnated Ganon who had NOT the Triforce of Power, instead he had the Trident of Darkness that grants him his powers. Eventhough he doesnt show as much as Vaati, the fact that he was so powerful that Zelda and the Maidens actually had to help to seal him in the Four Sword is actually very scary, since eventhough this is canonically the second weakest form of Ganon we have seen that he is still above Vaati in his Prime and whoever created that Dark Trident Eventually surpassed the Minish at some point.
IT was my First and therefore kinda my favorite, IT Just has ITS own Charm, the shrink mechanic leads to absolut adorable Things and I likey that Zelda and Link are Friends to add to His Motivation to rescue her. Also, the companion IS helpful and Not extreamly annoying, a big plus ^^
It would probably have made more sense for the Triforce as a single entity to have faded a bit from memory and people were just talking about individual forces at that point
Minish cap has such great music. I remember as a kid after fusing the kinstones i would use the phonograph to listen to all of the different tracks while i slept. It would be awesome if you did a deep dive/iceberg for the oracle games. They are so underrated and poorly documented and deserve more love
Can’t it be that the ancient sages forged the goddess sword for Hylia since we see the sages medallions on the ceiling of Hylia’s temple? That sword ultimately became the Master Sword when tempered with the three goddesses flames and given the benediction of Hylia.
It's possible yet nothing in Skyward Sword's storyline ever directly ties into the Sages to deduce they had something to do with Hylia's forging of a magic sword in order to seal away Demise and his army of demons. Personally i feel the Sage symbols were only added by Nintendo for the sake of mere reference (fitting for the first chronolical game in the timeline) without an attempt at aknowledging any kind of Lore.
@@javiervasquez625 accepting that TP Zelda gave a true information and playing SS make this the only solution and having the six sage medallions on the ceiling of the Temple of Hylia shows that they were a part of the followers of Hylia so if we suppose they forged the goddess sword it makes all the pieces fit. We can also say that Zelda has 0 lore and Nintendo is just making up random stuff to fit the current narrative but what fun is that?
At present, I think the Light Force as it is called in this game refers to Hylias divine power dormant in Zelda and by extent the royal bloodline. Being godly powers it makes sense a villain in search of power for his personal goals would search out ways to control or make use of the super natural power of the gods and goddesses.
I agree, I think that this should be obvious after TotK, but I think that people get hung up on the fact that Zelda inherited her time powers from Sonia and her Light powers from Rauru. I am of the mind that Rauru was only half Zonai., and his mother had been the previous Princess Zelda. This explains why Sonia is named Sonia rather than Zelda. It also gives a reason for why Mineru & he remained when their race once again left Hyrule and why he was the king of Hyrule.
I think a good rule of thumb is unless you explicitly SEE an event take place in game you should maintain some skepticism to any story you're told. That's why the master sword origin change never bothered me much. We got told a legend about how it came to be, legends are not firsthand accounts you're playing a millenia old game of telephone.
I always assumed the Light Force to be related to Zelda's special powers (later revealed to be related to Hylia), like a special Force Gem because of her ancestry. Glad to see it's still somehow right.
I really appreciate the approach of looking at the topic based on both now and the time it was released. As someone who used to do unhealthy amounts of research into topics like this, I feel very seen by this video! lol I've been in the camp that the light force was supposed to be an explanation for Zelda's powers back in the day, especially since the dialogue TMC ends on seems to set up the Light Force playing a part in the series from that point onward. But I wonder if it can still apply to an extent, maybe coexisting with her goddess powers. I don't know if it's said anywhere exactly which of her powers are definitively retroactively goddess powers, but I could be missing something. Part of me wants to say that maybe the light arrows specifically are derived from the Light Force... But yeah I better stop thinking about this before Zelda lore starts consuming my brain cells again.
You could always argue it's the so called "Tetraforce" brought down from the Heavens by the Minish under direct order from Hylia who wanted her bloodline to carry her own powers within them to protect the mortal world in her name. At this point with The Minish Cap still been canon to the official timeline i'm willing to take this explanation over Aonuma and Fujibayashi teasing us with ambiguous answers which only make us more confused than assured about anything.
@@javiervasquez625 You have to move when the Minish brought the Light Force down to before Hylia reincarnated herself as Zelda before Skyward Sword if she was the one who ordered it. At which point she would not have a bloodline to carry the powers. After Skyward Sword, Hylia as an actual being who can give such orders does not exist. Now there could have been a TetraForce at this time before Hylia's reincarnation, and Hylia reincarnating could have removed her piece from it leaving the TriForce. Hylia could have sealed her Golden Light Force power in the Sky Islands and left the Minish to guard it. You just have the Minish wisht a vague order to bring it down when they see a need for it, and the time of the Hero of Men is when they did it.
@@LainK1978 ¿Who's to say Hylia ordered the Minish to place the Light Force inside her bloodline _after_ she incarnated herself in a mortal body or that she _permanently_ became a mortal following her natural death after the events of Skyward Sword? If we go with the former alternative, it's perfectly plausible that she preordained the Minish would one day bring down the Light Force so that her mortal descendants would keep it safe before the whole thing with Demise ever took place. If we go with the latter alternative, after she lived her mortal life she would regain her godly nature, allowing her to continue presiding over the world and so ask the Minish to bring the Light Force to her descendants. As for the supposed fourth piece of the Tetraforce been sealed within the "Sky Islands" (i assume you mean Skyloft?) there's no evidence whatsoever to assume she would leave her respective piece anywhere in the Sky unattended for you to assume as much. Do remember that the Minish come from a _parallel realm_ simply known as the "Minish Realm" meaning it's possible the Light Force was kept hidden there until the times of the Hero of Men when the Minish would leave the Minish Realm in order to assist him in vanquishing the "Darkness" which was threathening the world.
I like to think that the story at the beginning of minish cap is a scewed, retelling of the events of skyward sword, plus another adventure early on after skyward sword with the chest of monsters, the hero of men, and the picori blade.
If the Light Force is a different thing from the Triforce, it could explain a lot of what we're seeing in BotW/TotK. Zelda's sealing power is implied to be Rauru's purifying light power, passed down to Zelda through her bloodline. When Zelda uses the power you can see the Triforce on the back of her hand, and when Rauru uses it against the Molduga you can see briefly see golden triangles. People have taken this to mean the Triforce is within Zelda's bloodline, however we've never seen the Triforce passed on in this way. But Minish Cap directly tells us that the Light Force is passed along through Zelda's bloodline, and it's represented by a golden triangle. This Light Force could also be the purifying light power of the goddess Hylia, passed down in the bloodline from the very first Princess Zelda in SS. For some meta evidence of this, Fujibayashi was the director of Minish Cap, Skyward Sword, BotW, and TotK. In recent interviews he's claimed he's being very intentional with the lore depsite what fans may think, and it'd make sense if the powers presented in the games he directly made are the most closely related.
I figured people lived in Skyloft *because* Hyrule below had been destroyed by Demise… he was already sealed away, right? So there must have been a fight. There could have been manifestations of Hylia and the Hero back then… it’s just, because of power creep, the Hero didn’t have the Master Sword until it became clear that he needed more than just any old blade.
Something I'd absolutely to kill to see a lore video on is the fact that the Triforce is not only fully sentient, it's omniscient. This is a fact that the series introduced ages ago and then did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with. The implications this one tidbit has for the entire series are nuts.
Fun Fact: Fujibayashi (who worked on Minish Cap, Skyward Sword, BotW, and TotK) helped set the stage by introducing the concepts of the "Golden Light", the "Goddess Hylia", and their connection to the Triforce.
True although it's worth noting that Hylia's existence had apparently already been teased as far as A Link to the Past according to the japanese version of the game referring to Hylians as the _"Children_ of Hylia" attributing their creation to a deity with said name. Seeing as Lake Hylia already existed as far as the original The Legend of Zelda on the NES i can only wonder if Miyamoto himself intended for "Hylia" to be a patron deity of Hyrule since the very start of the series.
The Triforce in Minish Cap is like the Arc in Indiana Jones. It is locked away by "top men" but by the time of the crystal skullevent everyone has forgotten about it
I like to think that the Golden Force was actually a COMPLETED version of the Triforce. And when Vaati pulled MOST of the Golden Light Force out of Zelda this in turn created the TRIforce to begin with. That is my reality. lol
Yet there is Skyward Sword. And the Triforce is already potentially Omnipotent with three pieces, what would a 4th piece be of use? It is mathematically Impossible to gain more than infinite power.
@@Chris-gx1ei I guess I forgot that little bit. I guess I am just interested in an idea that no body really cares about. It would have been interesting at least. But I forgot we're talking about Nintendo... Interesting has sort of fallen to the way side for remakes.
I think nayru created the goddess of Hylia when she created the law and order of the land. That's why the triforce of wisdom is so attracted to zelda as she is Hylia's reincarnation. Her light and time powers are Hylia's. These are the powers she needed to keep law and ordernin hyrule
Another thing interesting... In japanese, the Four Sword can be alternatively translated as "Force Sword", the pronounciation feel really the same actually.
Has it also other Titles? I am just aware of the Master Sword being called "Exorcism Sword" in the Japanese Manual which perfectly describes the purpose of the Master Sword.
I always saw the Force as the power of the Princesses of Hyrule. It's an unlimited source of power which implies a divine explanation. I don't think SS contradicts TMC just because it's not introduced in the exact same way. As for the Force Gems, they are very small pieces of power lying in all forms of life. It's the equivalent of energy in our world, but gratitude is also considered as a physical energy. In the FSA manga, Green and Blue fight in order to get more Force Gems, but only get a few. Killing an enemy will release a lot more than two swords clashing. In ST, bosses keep the Force Gems for themselves and killing them will allow the restoration of the Tower. Anyway, I think Vaati was smart for trying to not only get an unlimited source of power, but also to take that source with him (leading to Zelda's death), making him a god. He didn't manage to take the source of it, but got enough power to become a demigod.
When I first started playing TotK I was hoping the past with Rauru and Sonia would have taken place a little after SS. It would have explained the Force in Zelda's princesses and tied it all together.
I find it interesting that the Minish bear a likeness to the Zonai even down to the large ears and were said the descend from the sky despite being largely underground in-game. Their ability to be able to resize themselves and were powerful magic users also fits.
There's also the "Oocca" (or Sky People on the japanese version of Twilight Princess) who, like the Minish and Zonai, also had magical powers as proven by the Dominion Rod and mysteriously vanished from Hyrule under unknown circumstances. One could easily argue the Minish, Oocca, Lokomo and Zonai all belong to a "Sky Tribe" which is directly connected to one another given their shared origin as beings native to the Sky.
@@javiervasquez625 Well, Oocca claim to have made the Sky City. We can't go confusing in-universe knowledge with observable facts. Thats really what this video was trying to point out. When we see anything said by characters we need to be aware of deliberate bias and misunderstandings written into the game.
@@KryyssTV True yet they are nonetheless both named Sky People in the japanese version of the game while at the same time credited with the _creation_ of the land of Hyrule very similar to the Zonai's creation of their Hyrule during the Era of the Wild. It would seem as if history is constantly repeating itself with different "sky races" appearing to create/recreate the kingdom of Hyrule.
@@javiervasquez625 A powerful Sky race has actually been retconned in as far back as Wind Waker though. While the concept behind the Zonai wasn't firmed up at the time the fact is that the whole Wind Waker plot is about what the "Gods" did when the Goddesses didn't respond to Ganondorf's attack. The Tower of the Gods is clearly ancient and the lore around it says the people used to ring the bell at the top to summon the "Gods". We see that the Aztec/Robotic aesthetic of the tower was then carried into Minish Cap, Skyward Sword and now TotK to be applied to the skydwelling Zonai.
@@KryyssTV It's always been my understanding that the Tower of the Gods was a direct creation of the 3 Golden Goddesses which the Royal Family and the people of Hyrule used to pray for their safety and wellbeing during the long time gap in which no Hero/Link was born to watch over the kingdom. Personally i cannot recall any piece of information or Lore within The Wind Waker addressing wether the Tower of the Gods was a creation of an "Sky race" as you seem to infer and so i can't say i agree with the conclusion that the tower was indeed built by any of the Sky races seen across the timeline. As to the nature behind the mechanical robot Mazaal and the Wind Ruins i do recall Ezlo and some of the members of the Wind Tribe stating it was in fact a collaboration between the Wind Tribe itself and the Minish back when they first descended into the mortal realm making one wonder if the many sky races/tribes of the Zelda universe could very much be related to another as you pointed out given the similar Aztec inspired aesthetic seen across the timeline. ¿Maybe there is in fact a direct connection between the Minish, Oocca, Lokomo and Zonai that we simply haven't figured out...? The plot thickens.
It's entirely possible that the Light Force being depicted as a golden triangle is just artistic license on the part of the stained glass makers. After all, the Triforce is already a commonly used symbol of power in TMC and it's not all that uncommon for such things to be conflated IRL even if they're not the same at all.
Something that always bugged me with four swords adventures was how the dark world exists on he child timeline, where four swords adventures is situated, years after the events of twilight princess.
To further the Legend aspect, I remember the Hero of Time was stated to be ten, only for details of that legend to be muddled by the time of The Wind Waker, leading to them believing the Hero of Time's age to be 12.
Just now noticed this: blue with shieka tech and triforce of wisdom, green for zonal tech and triforce of courage, red for gloom/malice and triforce of power.... do what you will with that
In botw Zelda uses a "golden light" to save Link. During the animation you can see a brief image of the Triforce even though that game doesn't focus on the Triforce at all.
I always wondered with the Triforce lore on why the Triforce split upon Ganondorf touching it, because it mentions imbalance, but how? Princess Zelda and basically-Queen Princess Zelda will rule more territory than the Gerudo, but he *outwitted* her *better judgement* just as he invaded the Sacred Realm, and doing all is pretty *gutsy* with his odds of being potentially executed if found out. (Which he would have been executed, because we know from TP)
The Triforce IS different from the Light Force as the Light Force comes from the Goddess Hylia while the Triforce came from the other Goddesses (Din, Nayru, and Farore).
My personal theory is the Light Force is the Goddess Hylia. The "golden light" phrase is used, if memory serves, in Spirit Tracks to explain why Cole wants Zelda's body to give Maladus a vessel.
In relation to what you said about how the games are "Legends", I believe that is the way they are being taken with the modern games, being Legends with the History being the same story but with different details. Many take the idea that Ganon has been "reborn" a few times, and the Ganondorf in TOTK is the latest, but I say that Ganon never reincarnated, and the wvents in the past are the History that OOT is the History to, or something. At least, I think that is the approach the Zelda team in Nintendo is taking with the new games, and while it isn't very satisfying for people trying to make a timeline, it was already convoluted and a stretch, at least for connecting them all in the same timeline. Maybe as separate timelines, like the original timeline, now considered the Fallen Timeline, has a flimy connection to the Ocarina branched timeline, and I believe it deserves to be considered seperate. The rest holds up, but with BOTW I believe they officially started a new timeline, maybe with a more solid connection from one to another.
The wisdom to know what to do, the courage to act on that wisdom, and the power to see it through. Wisdom is useless without the courage to act or power to accomplish. Courage is wasted without the wisdom to know what to do or the power to make it happen. Power is futile without the courage to act, or the wisdom to know how.
I know next to nothing about the complexities of Zelda lore. But it has always struck me that there should actually be four pieces to the tri-force. Something should fill that inner space. Maybe the golden light is that missing piece, or maybe the tri-force is what is left of the golden light after it was somehow broken and separated.
Maybe the Golden Goddesses left multiple pieces of Force in the world while they were making it, before all their remaining worldly power collapsed into the Triforce upon their departure. If that were the case, it would make some sense for Force to be especially prevalent in the sky (presumably somewhere the goddesses spent a lot of time) for the Picori (and maybe Zonai?) to have found it
I have a theory about the Hero of Man, who wears a headband. The bonus story in the Majora's Mask manga tells of the origin of the mask, and the unnamed hero who defeats the all-consuming demon wears a headband as well. He had no sword, only drums, which makes me think that perhaps the legend within Minish Cap tells of the same hero driving out the darkness, but schisms in details. The Picori blade versus the drums and the creation of the mask. The same story but perhaps in different cultures of the time, perhaps the mask origin was told within the tribe that long fell into obscurity in Termina, whereas in Hyrule the Picori legend thrived.
"based on a true story" is the best way ive heard anyone justify the lore inconsistencies. the "true story" of what actually happened in the zelda world is the basis of what we see in the games, which is like an adaptation where the storyteller has taken creative liberties.
I would think that since the powers of the triforce still make up the creation powers of the world and influence it even while in the sacred realm that the light force is literally just being used by people that are more in tune (directly related to the triforces themselves) with the ambient power of the triforce while it is sealed away. Thus them showing the pieces of the triforce and the triforce itself everywhere as the people understood that the powers of creation could still be manipulated by those in tune with it.
To me, if feels like this was their first shot at a origin story for Zelda lore and Skyward Sword was basically a soft reboot. There is a lot of similarities between Minish and Skyward even down to the items you get in the game.
Not a "soft reboot" as that is something else entirely but simply a minor retcon of The Minish Cap as an alternate origin story in favor of Skyward Sword telling a different origin story altogether.
My theory is that, while the Triforce represents the principal bond between the Goddesses and the Holy Land of Hyrule, other fragments of their power manifested in different ways in different corners of the Earth. This even works if we believe that the Three Dragons from BotW and TotK are the original creators of Hyrule.
My take is that the golden light is a parallel legend that came about about the same time as the original legend as 2 different interpretations of the same event. While this contradicts the “they are separate forces” thing I feel like it’s the most fitting
We have assumed that there are only three golden triangles because of the creation myth of the three goddesses leaving their triangles behind… but if we treat the triangles like ancient godly versions of sacred stones, then there could have been far more than just three.
I just assume the Light Force is Zelda’s Goddess power from Hylia as introduced in Skyward Sword and then somewhat expanded on in Breath of the Wild (where it even manifests as the Triforce). You’d assume a demon like Vaati wouldn’t be able to touch that kind of power considering what it does to Ganon but I mean even Girahim was able to do it in SS, and Vaati had the minish hat so.
@@Mentaclink She has the Tri-force mark on her hand which can be seen on her Totk Amiibo and that mark indicate that someone has one or all pieces of the Tri-force.
¿Maybe the Light Force _is_ the Triforce with the hollow space in the middle filled by a fourth piece? The "Tetraforce" may yet be true if this kind of information is taken into account.
One timeline theory I quite like, one that is able to deal with the discrepencies between Minish Cap and Skyward Sword, is that Skyward Sword created a split timeline similar to Ocarina of Time, from the two separate moments that Demise is defeated (in the present and in the past). In the past timeline, there'd have been no need for Link to retrieve the Master Sword, so the Picori Blade could have simply been the untempered Goddess Sword, alternatively turned into the Four Sword through the use of the four elements rather than the three fires. The Hero of Men tale as told in Minish Cap could have been a story of another Link and Zelda in the timeline where Demise was already defeated, and so the events of Skyward Sword never happened. This Link's quest was instead to banish the remaining demons from the overworld (sealing them in the bound chest). When it comes to the Light Force, however, my interpretation of it is that it is Hylia's Force. While the Triforce is the force of the goddesses (or the land, depending on your interpretation), force still exists within all beings. Force gems, as you pointed out, could simply be gratitude crystals, a solidified form of this light force (malice meanwhile being its opposite as a sort of dark force). Now, Minish Cap isn't the only place we find a distinct lone "light force" triangle like this. We also see it on the Fierce Deity's breastplate. A "god" (read: enlightened being) is symbolised by this lone triangle. With Majora's Mask being an allegory for enlightenment (the collection of masks representative of the positive karma Link earned), Link effectively earns a force triangle as he ascends as a fierce deity. I'd extend this to Hylia, in a similar manner. A being who became enlightened, and thus functionally a goddess, whose ascension created a triangle of light, not unlike the pieces of the triforce, but one wholly connected to her divinity. Given Hylia's decision to give up this divinity and reincarnate, her light force would have become severed. While in the original Skyward Sword story, this light force might have been scattered across the temples for Zelda to earn back, in the timeline where Demise has already been defeated, Hylia's plan was no longer necessary, and so the Picori may have granted the goddess sword and Hylia's light force to Link and Zelda directly, as the prologue of Minish Cap describes. It is to this extent that Ghirahim "chases" Zelda across Hyrule, so that she can restore Hylia's Force within her, and then using that Force to resurrect Demise. In this way, both Demise and Vaati seek Hylia's Force in order to become as gods themselves (while skipping the whole enlightenment part). Vaati, then, could be considered the first iteration of Demise's curse. Since Vaati was a Minish, he would naturally have known about Hylia's Force, but with later iterations of Demise's curse such as Ganondorf, knowledge of Hylia herself had pretty much vanished, along with any knowledge of what the "light" that was passed down through the queens of the royal line truly was.
The thing is Skyward Sword doesnt end in a split, if you replay the game then You notice the details which hint that this is actually a Loop that has already happen and which will happen again - unless you die out of foolish reasons. More logically would be that Impa has hidden the already prepared Master Sword in the Present with illusion spells so that no Demons will try to resurect the Part of Demise that got defeated in the Past and to prevent that the Hero gets the idea of using already the prepared Master Sword to open the Gate of time, he has to forge the Blade so that it will end up in the past.
"This bravest of men used his wisdom and courage, his golden light, and his sword". Due to the punctuation, that sentence is talking about three separate articles, not equating wisdom and courage with the light and sword. In order for it to be the way River Zora interpreted it, it would need to have a colon like this - "This bravest of men used his wisdom and courage: his golden light, and his sword".
I'm not sure about that. If it was meant to be a third article (or fourth), it would have said: Wisdom, courage and his golden light and power. Or even: Wisdom, courage, golden light and sword. The komma suggests otherwise to me. I could say to someone: I brough my pride and joy, my car and dog with me.
@@MonsterMaze that would be incorrect punctuation. You would still need a colon there for it to be correct. It is correct, however, to include an "and" in a list of articles if you're considering two of the articles as closely related, maybe even a single entity. For example: "I brought my sword and shield, my tunic, and my boots". The structure of the sentence also supports this. The word "his" before each article shows how the list of articles in structured - his [wisdom and courage], his [golden light], and his [sword]. If River Zora's interpretation is correct, then it was also bad punctuation and writing to communicate that concept.
I just assumed that if it is a power that is similar to the triforce or Hylia's bloodline, but confirmed not to be, then it was likely something that came from another goddess outside of the named four.
When it comes to the timeline, people forget that a lot of it comes from fans. The multiple timelines and even the idea of the "down fall" timeline was around way before Nintendo put out their official timeline. This matters because the official zelda timeline is a response to fans wanting to know and wasn't something that was planned out before hand. So, weird things will arise, retcons will happen, and it's all not really worth the paper it's printed on when it comes to comparing games to each other.
I always imagined that Zelda’s light force was the blood of Hylia being passed down by each incarnation of her.
Same
Ditto
Makes sense
Theory: the triforce is consist of “golden light” but the one who is found in minish cap is another variant of it.
That's a pretty neat idea
I don't think it was ever meant to be an origin story for the triforce, considering in the exact same image of Zelda holding it, she's already wearing an emblem of the full triforce on her dress, implying that the full triforce has existed as a concept for some time already.
Agreed i feel the use of the words "Wisdom and Courage" during the game's prologue might have been a red herring on the part of Fujibayashi and Aonuma in an attempt to tease players with an ambiguous connection to either of the 2 aforementioned Triforce pieces. For all we know the Light Force could very well be a fourth Triforce piece which is passed down through Hylia's bloodline yet has no direct connection whatsoever with either of the 3 Triforce pieces.
The Origen story of the Triforce was a part of A Link to the Past already, this Origen Story has been chronologically put before Skyward Sword, and Minish Cap takes after Skyward Sword
i really love how you treat the lore like a historian would
Is there another way to outline canonical concepts in a coherent way?
And, now we even have theories about the force from Minish Cap being a secret stone.
Which wouldn't make sense considering the light force in Minish Cap is inside Zelda.
Yea, I agree. It doesn't hold much water. It's not only inside of her, but it's apparently passed down through the bloodline. But, the theory is out there. @@psuedonym9999
@@psuedonym9999 Magical kidney stones maybe?
The theory doesn't make sense, but it's out there. @@psuedonym9999
@@evanmisejka4062 🤣
Force gem theory is fun. She already had the blood of the goddess, the minish just went and put a magical super battery in her blood. No wonder she's capable pulling off some wild magic bs without help from the triforce.
Perhaps the Triforce are the 'force gems' of the Golden Goddesses and the Light Force is that of Hylia. It's a neat retcon if Fujibayashi ever inteded it.
If that's the case that would confirm the "Tetraforce" and cement Hylia as the newly discovered _fourth_ Golden Goddess directly related to the 3 who created the Zelda universe.
I think that is quite likely and explains why all princesses have magic as well. that light is just a symbol of their connection top the goddess
@@samuxan It could also be a sign/symbol of their connection to a "fourth power" as per Hylia been a fourth Golden Goddess in her own right. Hopefully Aonuma will someday reconsider bringing back the Light Force in a future game to explicitly address it's true nature once and for all.
@@javiervasquez625
Actually it still wouldnt make much sense for the existance of a fourth Piece, the Three Pieces of the Golden Goddesses combined grands you infinite power. What benefit would you get from a fourth piece if you already have infinite power from just three?
It is mathenatically Impossible get above infinity.
@@Chris-gx1ei That's exactly what i thought when i first thought about the possibility of the Light Force been Hylia's fourth Triforce piece only to realize the lack of a purpose for a fourth piece given the seemingly omnipotent power that the 3 pieces grants... until i also realized they *don't* actually grant _true omnipotence_ as proven in the story of A Link to the Past. ¿Remember back during the Imprisoning War when a complete Triforce-powered Ganondorf was STILL unable to escape the Sacred Realm despite possessing the 3 combined essences of the 3 Golden Goddesses in his hands? He had to concoct an elaborate plan to escape involving creating a puppet "avatar" tasked with sending the descendants of the 7 Sages into the Sacred Realm to weaken the Seal until it was weak enough for him to escape and use the Triforce to lay conquest over the entire Zelda world.
If the Triforce truly has infinite power as you say Ganondorf could easily have used it's omnipotence to break him free from the Sacred Realm in an instant without having to wait for the Seal's weakening in order to carry out a plan that would allow him to escape. ¿Could the reason why the Triforce did NOT grant Ganondorf true omnipotence to escape the Sacred Realm be due to him lacking the missing fourth Triforce piece hidden within Hylia's bloodline...? Food for thought.
Now we just need to figure out how Tingle fits into all this.
Lol
God of the Fourth piece
T(r)i(a)ngle... It was right in front of us this whole time!!
Cause he's a funnier character than we've ever had in the games
There's another triforce. The triforce of capitalism. Tingle and Beedle always hold a piece, but the final piece has changed hands many times- some owners include Malo, Zunari, and of course Morshu.
I have a migraine and I'm so grateful how you use dark mode screenshots of websites where possible and describe images/read off quotes shown on the screen so I can look away from the screen or close my eyes and still be able to enjoy this awesome video! I know you work hard on these visuals and I will absolutely rewatch this once the migraine has passed but it means a lot that your videos are so accessible and bring me a lot of comfort.
I have an idea on the whole "the origin of Link's Cap" in Minish Cap. The Hero of Men in the intro is without a cap, but in Skyward Sword it covers the origin of Link's outfit and cap. The story of the cap is that Skyward Sword Link has his cap as part of his uniform as well as what everyone else who graduated wears aside from the colors, the cap doesn't really have any specific meaning behind it by itself, which could explain why the Hero of Men doesn't wear a cap, its was irrelevant. Its wasn't until the Minish Cap that gave Link's cap a symbolic meaning (due to the cap literally becoming his companion), hence why every Link after has a cap as part of their outfit.
Interesting. So it was standard attire that became symbolic after minish cap
@@chadicuschaximus1071 That's how I would make sense of it. The only part of the Hero of the Sky's outfit that carried over to the Heroes of Men and the Minish (as well as the rest of the series) is his tunic and I don't know why the cap fell to the wayside by the time the Hero of Men came around. Perhaps it was as simple as the Hero of Men deciding not to wear a cap or the royals, the citizen of Hyrule, or even the divine didn't put much attention to the cap and that would had been something going forward for the rest of the timeline had it not been for the Minish Cap.
80s/90s game devs: "Wait, fans want games to be connected? And lore? And no contradictions in the stories? Can't they just be happy with another game?"
Well, playing Videogames is like being in an interactive Novel, it is suprising the Devs wouldnt realize this.
Yeah, I just assume at this point that the Light Force is basically the power of Hylia, and any Zelda in the bloodline can manifest it as magic.
I feel like it’s rare to see Zelda theory videos now from my favorite RUclipsrs
It's been a bit quiet, yes. In my case it's because I took a january break.
Yeah because TOTK didn't bring much to talk about so they can't really make theories about it. They thus need to talk about older games, which have been talked about a lot.
@@Zogef1996I dunno, I think there's a theory to be had that Tears of the kingdom actually undoes the retconns made by OOT and SS.
The original story of the imprisoning war (as told on the downfall timeline) says that ganondorf got the (complete) triforce from a vision and either durring or in the aftermath of sealing him away in the dark realm, the sages made the master sword for a future decendant of hylian knights.
Aonuma did say that SS isn't always the beginning of the timeline, while TOTK was in development...
@@siraaron4462 Do you have a _source_ for that second paragraph? You're just been another A.J. Thomas by copy-pasting the same comment over and over again without an actual source to back it up so i would be grateful if you could provide me with a source for this information regarding the original story surrounding Ganon's claim over the Triforce and the following creation of the Master Sword.
this opens new ideas for me regarding totk's lore: sonia seemingly not having light power despite probably being a goddess descendant, rauru having light power which resembles the power of the triforce, and zelda's light power being retconned to have been from rauru (a zonai man) rather than the goddess's female bloodline. thanks for another awesome video 🙏
having a video show up on your feed saying 22 seconds ago feels so wierd
The sages having a hand in the creation of the Master Sword could still work with the events of Skyward Sword. Hylia could have tasked the ancient sages to forge the Goddess Sword.
An idea that's strongly supported by the Sage emblems being on the ceiling of the Sealed Temple's vestibule. A popular theory is that six Sages served Hylia in her time (with her essentially being the Seventh), and they helped to create the Goddess Sword. I like to headcanon further that they're the Sages we see in TP, and are essentially the "essences" of the Sages who merge with others to "awaken" them as Sages when needed.
@@Romalac, Raaru could have been one of the ancient sages back then. Twilight Princess is agreed to be set around a century after Ocarina of Time in the Child Timeline. With how long Zora lifespans are, Ruto should be alive during Twilight Princess. Yet, she isn’t the new Zora queen, her half-brother, Ralis, becomes Zora king. And since Ganondorf kills the Sage of Water during the failed execution, he killed Ruto.
Except the full story tells that during the imprisoning war ganondorf, obtained the full triforce from a vision. Either durring or in the aftermath of said war, the sages made the master sword for a future decendant of hylian knights.
This whole story is only ever told on the downfall timeline and would be retconed out of existence by OOT.... Or so we thought.
Aonuma did say that SS isn't always the beginning of the timeline durring TOTK's development...
@@Romalac That theory about the Sages from Twilight Princess been THE Sages who first existed in Hylia's Era is interesting yet it's countered by official concept art from Twilight Princess showing early sketches of the Sages based on the ones seen in Ocarina of Time implying them to be the very same characters. While it's still a possibility i doubt Aonuma and co. outright consider the very first 7 Sages in the timeline to have played a role in the Goddess Sword's creation.
@@brandonbaggaley2317 Queen Rutela CANNOT be Ruto's mother as the "Zora Queen" from Ocarina of Time was already _dead_ by the events of the game hence Ruto speaking of her mother as if she had already passed away. Taking into account the rather legendary status that Ganondorf's imprisonment within the Twilight Realm has in this Era's Hyrule it's safe to assume it's been far _longer_ than a mere century.
Welcome back Don, awesome video! :D
Good day sir ^^. Thank you, thank you. I needed that break, haha. Looks like you've been grinding videos without us
In ALBW, we learn that the Triforce holds the universe together, and my headcanon is that it does so by giving off a specific energy- Force. Force then congeals into the various elements (which we see with the crystallized Elements/Royal Jewels), as well as Life Force and, by extension, souls. Wishing on the Triforce involves hijacking this "Force field" to reshape reality with it, hence why doing so properly involves having a strong, balanced will, and an improper user causes the Force field to essentially rebound on the Triforce, causing a Cataclysm.
The Light Force, as I see it, was a creation of the ancient Minish that was essentially an attempt to replicate the function of the now-sealed Triforce. As suggested in the video, it's essentially an extremely powerful variant of Force Gem, hence why it can bend the background Force field somewhat to grant wishes.
I believe the light force is just that, a force. The Triforce is itself like the Mirror of Twilight, an object. But not a tangible object, it's seen appearing in places like The Silent Realm waters, it's as real as sky is blue. Which sky isn't.
Triforce was left behind as a refraction of reality BECAUSE the goddesses left, it's intrinsic to the the fact that they did. Which I don't even believe was the beginning of the universe, just the beginning of some realms in it. I believe Triforce and the timeline split exist in conjunction, it was not meant to be Three, originally, because back in the day they ONLY were telling the story of a single one of the tripartite realm, the Fallen timeline.
Touching the triforce really just disturbs the origin point of the timeline split, not the BS invention that time somehow AUTOMATICALLY "split" because time travel occurred. That's idiotic, it's like honestly thinking if you travel in SPACE, planets just appear when you reach them. Kids learn better object permanency at age four.
When you adjust the timeline events in ONE of the splits, it draws mass and energy from the OTHER timelines, because something you did in one timeline loses the possibility to happen when you get a retry in another, a new possibility. It's equivalent exchange. This matches the kind fo mechanistic thinking, the sci-fi angle Nintendo NEEDS to enjoy in order to invent something like the Ultrahand. That's why Four Swords Adventure also MUST align in palcement with the other Fujibayashi games, because characters like Dark Links ARE manifestations of possiblity that playable Link drew away from. It's your failures as a hero if you DON'T get retries, while Zelda's time power, is the Legend ABOUT that universal kindness of getting them. The sacrifice and the give and take when some divinity will wait for you, to set things right.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 Was following along right at first, but I'll be honest, you kinda lost me after the first paragraph. :p
@@sboinkthelegday3892 I should point out that just because the Deku Tree said "the goddesses left" after creating the Zelda universe that does not make it so given the Deku Tree's own lack of certainty as to the accuracy of that statement. Taking into later depictions of the creation of the Triforce such as in Twilight Princess it is heavily implied that the Triforce ARE THE GOLDEN GODDESSES after the 3 *fused* together to become the golden triangle.
Seeing as A Link to the Past and the Oracle games confirm the Triforce to have the ability to _speak_ as a sentient being it's quite plausible that the reason why the existence of the Triforce is necessary to keep the entire Zelda universe together is because the Golden Goddesses _themselves_ are the ones who are directly holding everything from within the Triforce itself.
@@sboinkthelegday3892 Did the goddesses truly leave? Maybe they became or were the Triforce pieces themselves from the start, or kind of died and left behind their very powerful essence, their force gems: The Triforce pieces.
@@MagnaP Both A Link to the Past and Twilight Princess hint at such possibility with A Link to the Past confirming the Triforce to be _sentient_ (as in it's able to speak like a thinking being) and Twilight Princess explicitly showing the 3 goddesses _fusing together_ to create the complete Triforce.
Adding further evidence for this scenario we also have A Link between Worlds revealing that should the Triforce be destroyed like it happened to Lorule's Triforce the very fabric of *reality* will tear itself appart implying the Triforce to be the very source of _Order_ in the entire Zelda world... ¿Which deities were responsible for giving order to the world as shown during the Deku Tree's story in Ocarina of Time?
How many mystical sky-races in that now? Minish, Oocca, Zonai, the Wind Tribe, the Goddesses, and the Hylians in Skyward Sword.
Too many to count xD
Maybe the sky people are similar to the real life sea people who existed during the bronze age collapse. Zelda games are based on legends, so maybe there is no game that is 100% historically accurate. Maybe there was only ever one group who lived in the sky, but one era told tales of them being Hylians who lived in the sky, the other era told stories of them being small chicken people, etc.
I like to think that there's a connection between the Zonai and the Picori/Minish. Other than the differences between their sizes and colorations, they have a similar body shape.
Love seeing Minish Cap coverage, it's the best one out of the 2D Zelda games in my opinion. I will die on that hill! Hopefully, someday we'll get a proper explanation for the Light Force. Similar to the Zonai and their Secret Stones, which were said to be gifts from the gods themselves and were NOT created by the Zonai, I think the Picori and the Light Force are in the exact same boat. Beings from the heavens bringing the people of the surface gifts from the gods.
I concur! Both onyour stance on Minish Cap and the idea of behind "light-based" gifts from the heavens ^^
But which "gods" could they be? I doubt this gifts come directly from the 3 Golden Goddesses as nothing in the games suggest they did and yet at the same time the series has been very iffy in regards of wether there are other deities and "kami" as they're called in Japan living in the Heavens alongside the Golden Goddesses to pinpoint them as the gods responsible for all these gifts been brought into the mortal world.
@@javiervasquez625Besides the three Golden Goddesses taking up the Elder Gods role, do we even have any other New Gods other than Hylia and the Four Giants of Termina (whose exact role is hard to pin down)?
All the others seem to be Lesser Gods, even ones like the Wind Fish, never mind Jabu Jabu and the Deku Tree. We don't really know who the Desert Colossus's Goddess of Sand (whose Japanese name suggests she might not be a real goddess at all) is supposed to be or where she would fall.
Maybe other lands or worlds have other New Gods they interact with besides Hylia. But we don't see them because the stories focus on Link, Zelda, and Hyrule. I don't recall of Hilda's Lorule had their own version of Hylia? But, probably a Lolia or Loria.
@@DanielMWJ By "Elder Gods" are we talking about the same deities from Mortal Kombat? Not sure i see the context in using such a term to refer to the highest deities in the Zelda pantheon so excuse me for not understanding your intent in using such a term.
As for the existence of other such divine beings appart from the 3 goddesses the japanese version of Skyward Sword has Demise refer to a so called _God Tribe_ outright confirming the existence of other such deities seperate from either the 3 goddesses and Hylia who Demise hates to the point of condemning Hylia's bloodline to an eternal conflict with the _Demon Tribe_ which will forever birth Demon Kings/Ganondorfs for eternity.
Magical beings such as the Wind Fish, Deku Tree and Goddess of the Sand (who some fans believe might be a reinterpretation of Din) are all indeed lesser deities/gods who's existence as _physical_ beings who dwell in the mortal realm makes them seperate from the high deities who dwell in the "God Realm" high above the skies of the Zelda world from which the Oocca, Minish and Lokomo hail from.
I got no clue regarding the existence of any "New Gods" so like your previous mention of Mortal Kombat's Elders Gods i am at a loss as to what your comment is attempting to say. Termina, the World of the Ocean King and Lorule are their own seperate dimensions with their own seperate pantheons meaning they're most definetly bound by their own seperate gods and deities who dwell in the respective God Realms of their respective dimensions making them completley seperate from Hyrule's dimension's God Tribe.
@@javiervasquez625 Elder gods are a general concept. They're usually just part of creation myths and origin stories of the gods. Also might be incomprehensibly alien, powerful, weaker than the New Gods somehow, dead, retired, literally part of the world, or absent from the world.
The New Gods are just the ones that are actively presiding over the world, having come into power after older gods (and in religions, are typically the ones worshipped most often). Usually anthropomorphic to a high degree.
Really, it seems like the God Tribe aren't very powerful individually (besides Hylia herself), because their modus operandi seems to be to send intermediaries (guardian spirits, etc.) And Chosen Ones to help or to do HUGE sweeping things like flooding Hyrule with magic water.
Formulated my own theory while watching.
I do agree that perhaps Capcom had originally intended for Minish Cap to be a sort of origin story, with the Light Force meant originally to be related to the Triforce in some way, but the rest of the canon later in the series retconned that, but I believe I have a lore-respecting way to explain what it is.
What if the Light Force isn’t a physical thing at all, and is just a different way to refer to something we already know of? Vaati extracts the Light Force from Princess Zelda in a very similar way to how Ghirahim and Demise extract Hylia’s power from Zelda in Skyward Sword, what if the Light Force is just the power of the goddess the royal family, specifically Princesses, posses?
Minish Cap, relatively speaking, takes place very early in Hyrule’s post-establishment history. The knowledge of the Triforce seems to be largely lost, but imagery still exists, as you said, in a similar fashion to how it does in the era of Breath of the Wild. Relatively speaking, Zelda and Link returning to the surface to eventually lead to Hyrule’s founding was recent news in the time of the Minish Cap.
My theory is that the people of Hyrule, knowing that Zelda is related to the goddess Hylia in the early years of the kingdom, and also knowing of the Triforce, associated all godly powers with golden triangles. Over time, the Triforce itself is lost, as well as knowledge of the goddess Hylia and her relation to the Hyrulean Royal Family, however it’s still vaguely known that princesses in the family possess light powers, even if they don’t know how or why they have them. I’m essentially saying that the “Light Force” is just the power granted by Hylia’s blood in Hyrulean princesses, just known as a new name in a new era. After all, history is often told in different ways as information is lost and/or recovered across time, so it definitely would make sense.
Wonder if the "Sealing Power" (which is clearly the Triforce) from Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom may just be the same thing with no one in the current Hyrule been aware of it's origin and true nature.
Thank you for actually acknowledging that the games are just legends. So many people like to just ignore that and treat every game like fact. As someone who really loves mythology that has always been my favorite thing about this series and a big part of why I love theorizing about it, you have to look at the bigger picture and the more nebulous connections between things, because if you try to take everything at face value, nothing will line up, just like real mythos.
Zonai and Sheikah technology using the force gems was a idea that I never thought about
Which might Explain why Calamity Ganon can also harmed with Anchient Arrows and not just Light Arrows and Beams of the Master Sword
I really like how you went back and looked at older theories about this stuff from when the games came out and before the official timeline. I fondly remember poking around in forums at the time & hearing this kind of stuff. Looking at the history of theories on a topic is a novel approach I’d like to see more of actually
7:06 Sure, I'd love to go back to the 2000s lol. The world was (or rather, seemed) a lot less complicated than it is today. Its maybe my nostalgic feelings for my childhood talking, but the 2000s were a golden age for gaming and animation in my opinion.
Since the minish come from another realm, it is possible the Golden Light is a Triforce equivalent from their dimention. We know other realities exist with their own triforce equivalents now so it's not too much of a leap that the Pikari world also has them. They travel over to the Hylian realm on a set schedule with a large gap between so it would make sense they bring one of their Triforce as protection. This explains why it's just the one triangle and why their realm doesn't collapse like in Lorule. While the golden light exist in Hyrule, the other two parts are still keeping the realm alive and thriving. It could even be possible that the Golden light part of their triforce is what is enabling the Dimention crossing. The Triforce has been long tied to time, space and reality with different dimensions, time travel and willful influences on dimentions. It was the Triforce that Gannon used to shape the Golden realm into his dark realm and was in the process of merging with the main realm in Link to the past. It is very possible that the Golden Light is the Triforce of the Pikari that holds control over interdimentional magics.
Apparently not really, this means Zelda would actually be Omnipotent, yet it still shows that even after Vaati extracted most of the Force out of Zelda he was basically able to manipulate Reality by first letting Link fall down only for him to appear in the Room where he fought the Darknuts which is the Room right Before the Altar of Vaati's Ritual, then he can change the entire Battlefield via reality changing, and at last he can suddenly teleport you onto another Battlefield somwhere in Outaspace.
While not being really Omnipotent the Light Force sure has Reality Changing Properties on a Cosmic Scale.
Which makes however Ganon even more Scarier if you think about it.
The Four Sword defeated Vaati Three times when he was in his Prime (one time was Offscreen between Minish Cap and Four Swords) and then over Time he himself became weak enough to be vanquished once and For all by the Four Sword in Four Swords Adventures, and then after that you inmediately fight a reincarnated Ganon who had NOT the Triforce of Power, instead he had the Trident of Darkness that grants him his powers.
Eventhough he doesnt show as much as Vaati, the fact that he was so powerful that Zelda and the Maidens actually had to help to seal him in the Four Sword is actually very scary, since eventhough this is canonically the second weakest form of Ganon we have seen that he is still above Vaati in his Prime and whoever created that Dark Trident Eventually surpassed the Minish at some point.
I really like minish cap! I’ve never played it but from all I’ve seen I just love it! And as always: Great video Don!
You can play it on the Switch if you have the upgraded version of Nintendo Switch Online, if you have it you really should play it!
@@SuperCaleb283 I know. I’m just replaying ocarina of time and then I’m gonna play it!
IT was my First and therefore kinda my favorite, IT Just has ITS own Charm, the shrink mechanic leads to absolut adorable Things and I likey that Zelda and Link are Friends to add to His Motivation to rescue her. Also, the companion IS helpful and Not extreamly annoying, a big plus ^^
It would probably have made more sense for the Triforce as a single entity to have faded a bit from memory and people were just talking about individual forces at that point
Ok, didn't expect a Minish cap theory great! the music of this game always makes me nostalgic even so I didn't play it when I was a child.
I would love a theorie about the sky tribe and the zonai. Especially since their art is so similar
Minish cap has such great music. I remember as a kid after fusing the kinstones i would use the phonograph to listen to all of the different tracks while i slept.
It would be awesome if you did a deep dive/iceberg for the oracle games. They are so underrated and poorly documented and deserve more love
I always interpreted the Golden Light to be primordial magic remnant from the creation of Hyrule focused by the Minish as a gift
Can’t it be that the ancient sages forged the goddess sword for Hylia since we see the sages medallions on the ceiling of Hylia’s temple? That sword ultimately became the Master Sword when tempered with the three goddesses flames and given the benediction of Hylia.
It's possible yet nothing in Skyward Sword's storyline ever directly ties into the Sages to deduce they had something to do with Hylia's forging of a magic sword in order to seal away Demise and his army of demons. Personally i feel the Sage symbols were only added by Nintendo for the sake of mere reference (fitting for the first chronolical game in the timeline) without an attempt at aknowledging any kind of Lore.
@@javiervasquez625 accepting that TP Zelda gave a true information and playing SS make this the only solution and having the six sage medallions on the ceiling of the Temple of Hylia shows that they were a part of the followers of Hylia so if we suppose they forged the goddess sword it makes all the pieces fit. We can also say that Zelda has 0 lore and Nintendo is just making up random stuff to fit the current narrative but what fun is that?
Yeay, a minish cap video, its criminaly underrated but such a wonderful game
At present, I think the Light Force as it is called in this game refers to Hylias divine power dormant in Zelda and by extent the royal bloodline. Being godly powers it makes sense a villain in search of power for his personal goals would search out ways to control or make use of the super natural power of the gods and goddesses.
I agree, I think that this should be obvious after TotK, but I think that people get hung up on the fact that Zelda inherited her time powers from Sonia and her Light powers from Rauru. I am of the mind that Rauru was only half Zonai., and his mother had been the previous Princess Zelda. This explains why Sonia is named Sonia rather than Zelda. It also gives a reason for why Mineru & he remained when their race once again left Hyrule and why he was the king of Hyrule.
Love the work you put into these videos
Love the video. You always make great zelda content, whether it's Canon or not, and I like the idea of the force in your videos
MINISH CAP VIDEO WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOIOIIIIIIIOKOOOOOOOOOOOH
Minish cap works well as a children's book giving the censored version of how the kingdom was formed.
Very informative, and very good! Excellent work!
7:32 don’t forget the best one, the Triumph Forks!
Love your vids,you are my favourite Zelda RUclipsr❤
I'm still wating for the game where we play as the Hero of Men.
I think a good rule of thumb is unless you explicitly SEE an event take place in game you should maintain some skepticism to any story you're told. That's why the master sword origin change never bothered me much. We got told a legend about how it came to be, legends are not firsthand accounts you're playing a millenia old game of telephone.
I always assumed the Light Force to be related to Zelda's special powers (later revealed to be related to Hylia), like a special Force Gem because of her ancestry. Glad to see it's still somehow right.
I really appreciate the approach of looking at the topic based on both now and the time it was released. As someone who used to do unhealthy amounts of research into topics like this, I feel very seen by this video! lol
I've been in the camp that the light force was supposed to be an explanation for Zelda's powers back in the day, especially since the dialogue TMC ends on seems to set up the Light Force playing a part in the series from that point onward. But I wonder if it can still apply to an extent, maybe coexisting with her goddess powers. I don't know if it's said anywhere exactly which of her powers are definitively retroactively goddess powers, but I could be missing something. Part of me wants to say that maybe the light arrows specifically are derived from the Light Force... But yeah I better stop thinking about this before Zelda lore starts consuming my brain cells again.
You could always argue it's the so called "Tetraforce" brought down from the Heavens by the Minish under direct order from Hylia who wanted her bloodline to carry her own powers within them to protect the mortal world in her name. At this point with The Minish Cap still been canon to the official timeline i'm willing to take this explanation over Aonuma and Fujibayashi teasing us with ambiguous answers which only make us more confused than assured about anything.
@@javiervasquez625 You have to move when the Minish brought the Light Force down to before Hylia reincarnated herself as Zelda before Skyward Sword if she was the one who ordered it. At which point she would not have a bloodline to carry the powers. After Skyward Sword, Hylia as an actual being who can give such orders does not exist. Now there could have been a TetraForce at this time before Hylia's reincarnation, and Hylia reincarnating could have removed her piece from it leaving the TriForce. Hylia could have sealed her Golden Light Force power in the Sky Islands and left the Minish to guard it. You just have the Minish wisht a vague order to bring it down when they see a need for it, and the time of the Hero of Men is when they did it.
@@LainK1978 ¿Who's to say Hylia ordered the Minish to place the Light Force inside her bloodline _after_ she incarnated herself in a mortal body or that she _permanently_ became a mortal following her natural death after the events of Skyward Sword? If we go with the former alternative, it's perfectly plausible that she preordained the Minish would one day bring down the Light Force so that her mortal descendants would keep it safe before the whole thing with Demise ever took place. If we go with the latter alternative, after she lived her mortal life she would regain her godly nature, allowing her to continue presiding over the world and so ask the Minish to bring the Light Force to her descendants.
As for the supposed fourth piece of the Tetraforce been sealed within the "Sky Islands" (i assume you mean Skyloft?) there's no evidence whatsoever to assume she would leave her respective piece anywhere in the Sky unattended for you to assume as much. Do remember that the Minish come from a _parallel realm_ simply known as the "Minish Realm" meaning it's possible the Light Force was kept hidden there until the times of the Hero of Men when the Minish would leave the Minish Realm in order to assist him in vanquishing the "Darkness" which was threathening the world.
I like to think that the story at the beginning of minish cap is a scewed, retelling of the events of skyward sword, plus another adventure early on after skyward sword with the chest of monsters, the hero of men, and the picori blade.
If the Light Force is a different thing from the Triforce, it could explain a lot of what we're seeing in BotW/TotK. Zelda's sealing power is implied to be Rauru's purifying light power, passed down to Zelda through her bloodline. When Zelda uses the power you can see the Triforce on the back of her hand, and when Rauru uses it against the Molduga you can see briefly see golden triangles. People have taken this to mean the Triforce is within Zelda's bloodline, however we've never seen the Triforce passed on in this way. But Minish Cap directly tells us that the Light Force is passed along through Zelda's bloodline, and it's represented by a golden triangle.
This Light Force could also be the purifying light power of the goddess Hylia, passed down in the bloodline from the very first Princess Zelda in SS. For some meta evidence of this, Fujibayashi was the director of Minish Cap, Skyward Sword, BotW, and TotK. In recent interviews he's claimed he's being very intentional with the lore depsite what fans may think, and it'd make sense if the powers presented in the games he directly made are the most closely related.
Wow❤ Your videos inspire me! Could you mind making another documentary about monsters?
i like to imagine the light force is part of Hylia's powers. ofcourse thats just me theorizing with hindsight
I figured people lived in Skyloft *because* Hyrule below had been destroyed by Demise… he was already sealed away, right? So there must have been a fight. There could have been manifestations of Hylia and the Hero back then… it’s just, because of power creep, the Hero didn’t have the Master Sword until it became clear that he needed more than just any old blade.
A possible idea is that the light force is the physical representation of hylia's power inside of zelda's bloodline.
Something I'd absolutely to kill to see a lore video on is the fact that the Triforce is not only fully sentient, it's omniscient. This is a fact that the series introduced ages ago and then did ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with. The implications this one tidbit has for the entire series are nuts.
Going back to zelda theory forums from the early 2000s is a trip lol.
Woa! I had no idea that the sword sealing a thing like a chest came from Minish Cap
I just remember that being neat in Hyrule Warriors
Fun Fact: Fujibayashi (who worked on Minish Cap, Skyward Sword, BotW, and TotK) helped set the stage by introducing the concepts of the "Golden Light", the "Goddess Hylia", and their connection to the Triforce.
True although it's worth noting that Hylia's existence had apparently already been teased as far as A Link to the Past according to the japanese version of the game referring to Hylians as the _"Children_ of Hylia" attributing their creation to a deity with said name. Seeing as Lake Hylia already existed as far as the original The Legend of Zelda on the NES i can only wonder if Miyamoto himself intended for "Hylia" to be a patron deity of Hyrule since the very start of the series.
The Triforce in Minish Cap is like the Arc in Indiana Jones.
It is locked away by "top men" but by the time of the crystal skullevent everyone has forgotten about it
The guy next to Anuma looks like the HAPPY MASK SALESMAN!!!!! OMG!!!!
I like to think that the Golden Force was actually a COMPLETED version of the Triforce. And when Vaati pulled MOST of the Golden Light Force out of Zelda this in turn created the TRIforce to begin with. That is my reality. lol
Yet there is Skyward Sword.
And the Triforce is already potentially Omnipotent with three pieces, what would a 4th piece be of use?
It is mathematically Impossible to gain more than infinite power.
@@Chris-gx1ei I guess I forgot that little bit. I guess I am just interested in an idea that no body really cares about. It would have been interesting at least. But I forgot we're talking about Nintendo... Interesting has sort of fallen to the way side for remakes.
@@Chris-gx1ei The TriForce has never been Omnipotent or even infinite power.
I think nayru created the goddess of Hylia when she created the law and order of the land. That's why the triforce of wisdom is so attracted to zelda as she is Hylia's reincarnation. Her light and time powers are Hylia's. These are the powers she needed to keep law and ordernin hyrule
Another thing interesting...
In japanese, the Four Sword can be alternatively translated as "Force Sword", the pronounciation feel really the same actually.
Has it also other Titles?
I am just aware of the Master Sword being called "Exorcism Sword" in the Japanese Manual which perfectly describes the purpose of the Master Sword.
One sword is powered by "Life" itself as per the name while the other is powered by "Light" to vanquish evil and anything demonic... interesting.
I always saw the Force as the power of the Princesses of Hyrule. It's an unlimited source of power which implies a divine explanation. I don't think SS contradicts TMC just because it's not introduced in the exact same way.
As for the Force Gems, they are very small pieces of power lying in all forms of life. It's the equivalent of energy in our world, but gratitude is also considered as a physical energy. In the FSA manga, Green and Blue fight in order to get more Force Gems, but only get a few. Killing an enemy will release a lot more than two swords clashing. In ST, bosses keep the Force Gems for themselves and killing them will allow the restoration of the Tower.
Anyway, I think Vaati was smart for trying to not only get an unlimited source of power, but also to take that source with him (leading to Zelda's death), making him a god. He didn't manage to take the source of it, but got enough power to become a demigod.
When I first started playing TotK I was hoping the past with Rauru and Sonia would have taken place a little after SS. It would have explained the Force in Zelda's princesses and tied it all together.
I find it interesting that the Minish bear a likeness to the Zonai even down to the large ears and were said the descend from the sky despite being largely underground in-game. Their ability to be able to resize themselves and were powerful magic users also fits.
There's also the "Oocca" (or Sky People on the japanese version of Twilight Princess) who, like the Minish and Zonai, also had magical powers as proven by the Dominion Rod and mysteriously vanished from Hyrule under unknown circumstances. One could easily argue the Minish, Oocca, Lokomo and Zonai all belong to a "Sky Tribe" which is directly connected to one another given their shared origin as beings native to the Sky.
@@javiervasquez625 Well, Oocca claim to have made the Sky City. We can't go confusing in-universe knowledge with observable facts. Thats really what this video was trying to point out. When we see anything said by characters we need to be aware of deliberate bias and misunderstandings written into the game.
@@KryyssTV True yet they are nonetheless both named Sky People in the japanese version of the game while at the same time credited with the _creation_ of the land of Hyrule very similar to the Zonai's creation of their Hyrule during the Era of the Wild. It would seem as if history is constantly repeating itself with different "sky races" appearing to create/recreate the kingdom of Hyrule.
@@javiervasquez625 A powerful Sky race has actually been retconned in as far back as Wind Waker though. While the concept behind the Zonai wasn't firmed up at the time the fact is that the whole Wind Waker plot is about what the "Gods" did when the Goddesses didn't respond to Ganondorf's attack.
The Tower of the Gods is clearly ancient and the lore around it says the people used to ring the bell at the top to summon the "Gods". We see that the Aztec/Robotic aesthetic of the tower was then carried into Minish Cap, Skyward Sword and now TotK to be applied to the skydwelling Zonai.
@@KryyssTV It's always been my understanding that the Tower of the Gods was a direct creation of the 3 Golden Goddesses which the Royal Family and the people of Hyrule used to pray for their safety and wellbeing during the long time gap in which no Hero/Link was born to watch over the kingdom. Personally i cannot recall any piece of information or Lore within The Wind Waker addressing wether the Tower of the Gods was a creation of an "Sky race" as you seem to infer and so i can't say i agree with the conclusion that the tower was indeed built by any of the Sky races seen across the timeline.
As to the nature behind the mechanical robot Mazaal and the Wind Ruins i do recall Ezlo and some of the members of the Wind Tribe stating it was in fact a collaboration between the Wind Tribe itself and the Minish back when they first descended into the mortal realm making one wonder if the many sky races/tribes of the Zelda universe could very much be related to another as you pointed out given the similar Aztec inspired aesthetic seen across the timeline.
¿Maybe there is in fact a direct connection between the Minish, Oocca, Lokomo and Zonai that we simply haven't figured out...? The plot thickens.
It's entirely possible that the Light Force being depicted as a golden triangle is just artistic license on the part of the stained glass makers. After all, the Triforce is already a commonly used symbol of power in TMC and it's not all that uncommon for such things to be conflated IRL even if they're not the same at all.
A perfect video to drift away on a rainy day!
Something that always bugged me with four swords adventures was how the dark world exists on he child timeline, where four swords adventures is situated, years after the events of twilight princess.
To further the Legend aspect, I remember the Hero of Time was stated to be ten, only for details of that legend to be muddled by the time of The Wind Waker, leading to them believing the Hero of Time's age to be 12.
Amazing! Beautiful video.
The light force is just divine energy. The triforce emits and is made of it.
Just now noticed this: blue with shieka tech and triforce of wisdom, green for zonal tech and triforce of courage, red for gloom/malice and triforce of power.... do what you will with that
In botw Zelda uses a "golden light" to save Link. During the animation you can see a brief image of the Triforce even though that game doesn't focus on the Triforce at all.
Minish cap is one of my favourite zelda games, definitely my favourite 2d one... but I think it makes sense to just cut some games from the timeline.
I always wondered with the Triforce lore on why the Triforce split upon Ganondorf touching it, because it mentions imbalance, but how? Princess Zelda and basically-Queen Princess Zelda will rule more territory than the Gerudo, but he *outwitted* her *better judgement* just as he invaded the Sacred Realm, and doing all is pretty *gutsy* with his odds of being potentially executed if found out. (Which he would have been executed, because we know from TP)
Left field theory: The light force is a fourth force meant to fill the negative space triangle cutout of the triforce.
This is not a new idea. Many of us think that the negative space represents Hylia, and the Light Force is her power.
The Triforce IS different from the Light Force as the Light Force comes from the Goddess Hylia while the Triforce came from the other Goddesses (Din, Nayru, and Farore).
My personal theory is the Light Force is the Goddess Hylia. The "golden light" phrase is used, if memory serves, in Spirit Tracks to explain why Cole wants Zelda's body to give Maladus a vessel.
Have you got to ask Loruleanhistorian to help you out with this video or maybe for future Zelda videos for translations?
In relation to what you said about how the games are "Legends", I believe that is the way they are being taken with the modern games, being Legends with the History being the same story but with different details.
Many take the idea that Ganon has been "reborn" a few times, and the Ganondorf in TOTK is the latest, but I say that Ganon never reincarnated, and the wvents in the past are the History that OOT is the History to, or something. At least, I think that is the approach the Zelda team in Nintendo is taking with the new games, and while it isn't very satisfying for people trying to make a timeline, it was already convoluted and a stretch, at least for connecting them all in the same timeline.
Maybe as separate timelines, like the original timeline, now considered the Fallen Timeline, has a flimy connection to the Ocarina branched timeline, and I believe it deserves to be considered seperate. The rest holds up, but with BOTW I believe they officially started a new timeline, maybe with a more solid connection from one to another.
The wisdom to know what to do, the courage to act on that wisdom, and the power to see it through.
Wisdom is useless without the courage to act or power to accomplish.
Courage is wasted without the wisdom to know what to do or the power to make it happen.
Power is futile without the courage to act, or the wisdom to know how.
I know next to nothing about the complexities of Zelda lore. But it has always struck me that there should actually be four pieces to the tri-force. Something should fill that inner space. Maybe the golden light is that missing piece, or maybe the tri-force is what is left of the golden light after it was somehow broken and separated.
Dang and I JUST started playing Minish Cap too, lol. I was under the assumption that Zelda's "Light Force" was either the Triforce of Wisdom or Hylia
Maybe the Golden Goddesses left multiple pieces of Force in the world while they were making it, before all their remaining worldly power collapsed into the Triforce upon their departure.
If that were the case, it would make some sense for Force to be especially prevalent in the sky (presumably somewhere the goddesses spent a lot of time) for the Picori (and maybe Zonai?) to have found it
I have a theory about the Hero of Man, who wears a headband. The bonus story in the Majora's Mask manga tells of the origin of the mask, and the unnamed hero who defeats the all-consuming demon wears a headband as well. He had no sword, only drums, which makes me think that perhaps the legend within Minish Cap tells of the same hero driving out the darkness, but schisms in details. The Picori blade versus the drums and the creation of the mask. The same story but perhaps in different cultures of the time, perhaps the mask origin was told within the tribe that long fell into obscurity in Termina, whereas in Hyrule the Picori legend thrived.
Been tracking down as many Minish Cap lore vids as possible to give them support
"based on a true story" is the best way ive heard anyone justify the lore inconsistencies. the "true story" of what actually happened in the zelda world is the basis of what we see in the games, which is like an adaptation where the storyteller has taken creative liberties.
I really hope what the Minish come back in the next game. Especially since they were almost in breath of the wild.
I would think that since the powers of the triforce still make up the creation powers of the world and influence it even while in the sacred realm that the light force is literally just being used by people that are more in tune (directly related to the triforces themselves) with the ambient power of the triforce while it is sealed away. Thus them showing the pieces of the triforce and the triforce itself everywhere as the people understood that the powers of creation could still be manipulated by those in tune with it.
To me, if feels like this was their first shot at a origin story for Zelda lore and Skyward Sword was basically a soft reboot. There is a lot of similarities between Minish and Skyward even down to the items you get in the game.
Not a "soft reboot" as that is something else entirely but simply a minor retcon of The Minish Cap as an alternate origin story in favor of Skyward Sword telling a different origin story altogether.
My theory is that, while the Triforce represents the principal bond between the Goddesses and the Holy Land of Hyrule, other fragments of their power manifested in different ways in different corners of the Earth.
This even works if we believe that the Three Dragons from BotW and TotK are the original creators of Hyrule.
My take is that the golden light is a parallel legend that came about about the same time as the original legend as 2 different interpretations of the same event. While this contradicts the “they are separate forces” thing I feel like it’s the most fitting
Hylia can get wisdom from sages long before the earliest games.
We have assumed that there are only three golden triangles because of the creation myth of the three goddesses leaving their triangles behind… but if we treat the triangles like ancient godly versions of sacred stones, then there could have been far more than just three.
W minish cap - first game i EVER played
Tiny pieces of golden force found around the world powering it. Almost like a shattered piece of Triforce. Tetraforce confirmed??!!?! 😂
I just assume the Light Force is Zelda’s Goddess power from Hylia as introduced in Skyward Sword and then somewhat expanded on in Breath of the Wild (where it even manifests as the Triforce). You’d assume a demon like Vaati wouldn’t be able to touch that kind of power considering what it does to Ganon but I mean even Girahim was able to do it in SS, and Vaati had the minish hat so.
Zelda has the actually Tri-force in Botw/Totk it isn't the Light force manifesting as the Tri-force.
@@Ahouro there's really no proof of that afaik
@@Mentaclink She has the Tri-force mark on her hand which can be seen on her Totk Amiibo and that mark indicate that someone has one or all pieces of the Tri-force.
The white colour of light is formed when red, blue, and green colours of light meet in equal proportion
¿Maybe the Light Force _is_ the Triforce with the hollow space in the middle filled by a fourth piece? The "Tetraforce" may yet be true if this kind of information is taken into account.
Pretty sure the golden power is the just hylia's Power being passed down to each incarnation of Zelda. simplest explanation that works extremely well
One timeline theory I quite like, one that is able to deal with the discrepencies between Minish Cap and Skyward Sword, is that Skyward Sword created a split timeline similar to Ocarina of Time, from the two separate moments that Demise is defeated (in the present and in the past). In the past timeline, there'd have been no need for Link to retrieve the Master Sword, so the Picori Blade could have simply been the untempered Goddess Sword, alternatively turned into the Four Sword through the use of the four elements rather than the three fires. The Hero of Men tale as told in Minish Cap could have been a story of another Link and Zelda in the timeline where Demise was already defeated, and so the events of Skyward Sword never happened. This Link's quest was instead to banish the remaining demons from the overworld (sealing them in the bound chest).
When it comes to the Light Force, however, my interpretation of it is that it is Hylia's Force. While the Triforce is the force of the goddesses (or the land, depending on your interpretation), force still exists within all beings. Force gems, as you pointed out, could simply be gratitude crystals, a solidified form of this light force (malice meanwhile being its opposite as a sort of dark force). Now, Minish Cap isn't the only place we find a distinct lone "light force" triangle like this. We also see it on the Fierce Deity's breastplate. A "god" (read: enlightened being) is symbolised by this lone triangle. With Majora's Mask being an allegory for enlightenment (the collection of masks representative of the positive karma Link earned), Link effectively earns a force triangle as he ascends as a fierce deity.
I'd extend this to Hylia, in a similar manner. A being who became enlightened, and thus functionally a goddess, whose ascension created a triangle of light, not unlike the pieces of the triforce, but one wholly connected to her divinity. Given Hylia's decision to give up this divinity and reincarnate, her light force would have become severed. While in the original Skyward Sword story, this light force might have been scattered across the temples for Zelda to earn back, in the timeline where Demise has already been defeated, Hylia's plan was no longer necessary, and so the Picori may have granted the goddess sword and Hylia's light force to Link and Zelda directly, as the prologue of Minish Cap describes.
It is to this extent that Ghirahim "chases" Zelda across Hyrule, so that she can restore Hylia's Force within her, and then using that Force to resurrect Demise. In this way, both Demise and Vaati seek Hylia's Force in order to become as gods themselves (while skipping the whole enlightenment part). Vaati, then, could be considered the first iteration of Demise's curse. Since Vaati was a Minish, he would naturally have known about Hylia's Force, but with later iterations of Demise's curse such as Ganondorf, knowledge of Hylia herself had pretty much vanished, along with any knowledge of what the "light" that was passed down through the queens of the royal line truly was.
The thing is Skyward Sword doesnt end in a split, if you replay the game then You notice the details which hint that this is actually a Loop that has already happen and which will happen again - unless you die out of foolish reasons.
More logically would be that Impa has hidden the already prepared Master Sword in the Present with illusion spells so that no Demons will try to resurect the Part of Demise that got defeated in the Past and to prevent that the Hero gets the idea of using already the prepared Master Sword to open the Gate of time, he has to forge the Blade so that it will end up in the past.
"This bravest of men used his wisdom and courage, his golden light, and his sword". Due to the punctuation, that sentence is talking about three separate articles, not equating wisdom and courage with the light and sword.
In order for it to be the way River Zora interpreted it, it would need to have a colon like this - "This bravest of men used his wisdom and courage: his golden light, and his sword".
I'm not sure about that. If it was meant to be a third article (or fourth), it would have said: Wisdom, courage and his golden light and power. Or even: Wisdom, courage, golden light and sword. The komma suggests otherwise to me. I could say to someone: I brough my pride and joy, my car and dog with me.
@@MonsterMaze that would be incorrect punctuation. You would still need a colon there for it to be correct. It is correct, however, to include an "and" in a list of articles if you're considering two of the articles as closely related, maybe even a single entity. For example: "I brought my sword and shield, my tunic, and my boots".
The structure of the sentence also supports this. The word "his" before each article shows how the list of articles in structured - his [wisdom and courage], his [golden light], and his [sword].
If River Zora's interpretation is correct, then it was also bad punctuation and writing to communicate that concept.
@@heffayguap Perhaps you are correct. I'd love to pitch it against the original japanese text sometime, but this video already took too long as is
@@MonsterMaze I really enjoyed the video! I always appreciate the hard work and care you put into your lore and theory videos.
I just assumed that if it is a power that is similar to the triforce or Hylia's bloodline, but confirmed not to be, then it was likely something that came from another goddess outside of the named four.
When it comes to the timeline, people forget that a lot of it comes from fans. The multiple timelines and even the idea of the "down fall" timeline was around way before Nintendo put out their official timeline.
This matters because the official zelda timeline is a response to fans wanting to know and wasn't something that was planned out before hand.
So, weird things will arise, retcons will happen, and it's all not really worth the paper it's printed on when it comes to comparing games to each other.