I have a problem with defining salafism as orthodox when it's a very late movement that generally downplays the role of the four schools who all accept some form of sufi practice. Sufism is as diverse in practice as muslims themselves. Even speaking about music as a sufi practice is a bit weird.
Stop lying, Sufism came later too. The salaf are the first three generations, you can follow a madhhab but be salafi (hanbali) in aqeedah. The salaf knew zuhd and wara’.
@gujjar78602 Some of the earliest sufi masters like Junaid al salik and Al karabisi and al muhasibi were among the salaf. Notice that salaf is not the same thing as salafi. The salafi movement started in the late 1700s in what is today Saudi Arabia and the vast majority of Muslims were not upon what they were preaching. It's also not a lie that those who fiercely argue against following one madhab are the salafis. I'm not claiming that it's all of them but a lot, if not most of them.
@@Blacksugar259there’s no ideologic-historical connection between the Kadızadeli movement, which was a short lived tendency in the Ottoman Empire, and the wahhabi movement of the 19th century.
There were debates amongst the scholars concerning Bid'ah etcetera, but not regarding beliefs. The Salafi movement is one that challenges beliefs (aqaaid) of the rest. Hence, it is wrong to label "orthodoxy" to Salafism.
so is ashari orthodox?? the same asharis that were criticised by abu ismail al harawi, ibn al jazwi, ibn qudamah, Imam al barbahari?, atharism is the orthodox creed ashari started in 4th century, salafiyyah is just a revival of the orthodox creed
Uh ibn al jawzi literally is ash'ari, read his daf'u shubhat al tashbyh where he literally defines the mufawidi madhab of ash'arism as the school of imam ahmad. Dont forget Al nawawi, Ibn hajar, al subki, al qurtubi, al razi, al ghazali, al suyuti, al baqillani, al juwaini and the hundreds others. If these arent orthodoxy then islam is limited to like 10 people whom mostly were followers of Ibn taimmyah may he rest in peace. @@Lebronibnabdi
@@mnco5741 ibn al Jawzi literally said the Asharis left the creed of shafii and went to abul hasan. He refuted them so hard mate what r u talking about. Also there is not 10 people who are athari all the salaf were athari and majority of ulama were athari up until the 6th century
Salafi holds the strongest more authentic position than far. If these practices were so good as acts of worship they would have been given as instructions then. Next thing u have a new religion. Just one step from it
Tasawuf is no more no one is interested what left is not tasawuf at all and it deserve to be condemned not a fan of salafis deobandis but our own ppl have distorted the tasawuf by dancing and singing@@Speedyvampir2
بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم the example of those who deem innovation as permissable is of the children of Isreal when they deviated from the right path in the absence of Musa peace be upon him, thinking that having an idol will straighten their faith with God, and later one strove to alter the prohibition of interest by naming it differently, believing that the times have changed so we must as well. anyone who believe there is an action which get the worshiper close to its creator which Allah and his messengers did not inform us, indeed he has lied upon Allah and his messenger for Allah has said :ٱلْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِى وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ ٱلْإِسْلَٰمَ دِينًاۚ. whom ever is not pleased with what Allah has revealed is not from the nation of the muhhamad.
I have a problem with defining salafism as orthodox when it's a very late movement that generally downplays the role of the four schools who all accept some form of sufi practice. Sufism is as diverse in practice as muslims themselves. Even speaking about music as a sufi practice is a bit weird.
Stop lying, Sufism came later too. The salaf are the first three generations, you can follow a madhhab but be salafi (hanbali) in aqeedah. The salaf knew zuhd and wara’.
@gujjar78602 Some of the earliest sufi masters like Junaid al salik and Al karabisi and al muhasibi were among the salaf. Notice that salaf is not the same thing as salafi. The salafi movement started in the late 1700s in what is today Saudi Arabia and the vast majority of Muslims were not upon what they were preaching. It's also not a lie that those who fiercely argue against following one madhab are the salafis. I'm not claiming that it's all of them but a lot, if not most of them.
How can you describe 'salafism' as a very late movement after you've just watch a video about a debate that took place 400 years ago!?!?!?!?
@Blacksugar259 400 yrs is late in Islamic history
@@Blacksugar259there’s no ideologic-historical connection between the Kadızadeli movement, which was a short lived tendency in the Ottoman Empire, and the wahhabi movement of the 19th century.
This kind of debates have all but finished in our religious discourse, it's either my way or the highway.
A good exchange of views, I can appreciate both sides
ASA, I enjoy your videos very much. Please do one with Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Hambali
There were debates amongst the scholars concerning Bid'ah etcetera, but not regarding beliefs. The Salafi movement is one that challenges beliefs (aqaaid) of the rest. Hence, it is wrong to label "orthodoxy" to Salafism.
so is ashari orthodox?? the same asharis that were criticised by abu ismail al harawi, ibn al jazwi, ibn qudamah, Imam al barbahari?, atharism is the orthodox creed ashari started in 4th century, salafiyyah is just a revival of the orthodox creed
Ibn Arabi kafir
Uh ibn al jawzi literally is ash'ari, read his daf'u shubhat al tashbyh where he literally defines the mufawidi madhab of ash'arism as the school of imam ahmad. Dont forget Al nawawi, Ibn hajar, al subki, al qurtubi, al razi, al ghazali, al suyuti, al baqillani, al juwaini and the hundreds others. If these arent orthodoxy then islam is limited to like 10 people whom mostly were followers of Ibn taimmyah may he rest in peace. @@Lebronibnabdi
@@mnco5741 ibn al Jawzi literally said the Asharis left the creed of shafii and went to abul hasan. He refuted them so hard mate what r u talking about. Also there is not 10 people who are athari all the salaf were athari and majority of ulama were athari up until the 6th century
@@Lebronibnabdi its because ibn al jawzi was mufawidi of the hanabila, he criticized ta'wil, athari is not salafi at all.
Good 👍 what ai is used ?
You can be anything but one who judge others.
Salafi holds the strongest more authentic position than far. If these practices were so good as acts of worship they would have been given as instructions then. Next thing u have a new religion. Just one step from it
Ottoman war with saud miaw was more political then religious both were a mess at that point
I pity everyone who reduces Tasawwuf to dancing.
Well majority of the sufi now are all songs and dance.
@@Speedyvampir2 Your comment is ridiculous and completely false.
You are clueless and duluded.
Tasawuf is no more no one is interested what left is not tasawuf at all and it deserve to be condemned not a fan of salafis deobandis but our own ppl have distorted the tasawuf by dancing and singing@@Speedyvampir2
@@Speedyvampir2
Wrong, only the Mevlevi do the dancing. Hanbali Qadariyya, Hanafi Naqshabandi, Shafii Baalawi, Maliki Shadzili etc. Not doing that.
@ you have no idea bro. 😅😅. Do some research.
Zahit, don't decry us @0:20
بسم الله الرحمن الرحیم
the example of those who deem innovation as permissable is of the children of Isreal when they deviated from the right path in the absence of Musa peace be upon him, thinking that having an idol will straighten their faith with God, and later one strove to alter the prohibition of interest by naming it differently, believing that the times have changed so we must as well.
anyone who believe there is an action which get the worshiper close to its creator which Allah and his messengers did not inform us, indeed he has lied upon Allah and his messenger for Allah has said :ٱلْيَوْمَ أَكْمَلْتُ لَكُمْ دِينَكُمْ وَأَتْمَمْتُ عَلَيْكُمْ نِعْمَتِى وَرَضِيتُ لَكُمُ ٱلْإِسْلَٰمَ دِينًاۚ. whom ever is not pleased with what Allah has revealed is not from the nation of the muhhamad.
Salafism not started from 17th century... which is from 18th century
Salafism is a movement that came forth much later. Kadizade was certainly not a "Salafi."