Make sure to check out Kosmo and give him pointers on how to make his engines better! Also give me pointers too... ruclips.net/video/tuaU9bWzL6I/видео.html
i am a little curious, is there a way for us to download your mods in the workshop and all? i don't even have SM i am just asking for if i ever get it, i don't think an I3 runs it though.
Here is my tip for you: The sensors and logic gates all have a 0.025 second delay, so the faster your engine goes, the worse the timing gets. This means that you should advance the timing as the engine goes faster.
Please, please do a piston powered survival run. It would have lots of different vehicles with differently tuned engines for different roles of the vehicles; like a high torque slow speed for a crate carrier, or a really small high speed low torque to power your drills. It would make you create lots of unique, industrial and cool looking vehicles due to the new and really interesting constraints introduced. "Creativity doesn't just love constraints; it thrives under them." - someone smart, I can't remember who
For one of those big 7-8 extension engines, you should look into the massive reciprocating steam engines of the old ocean liners (titanic style yk). They are feats of engineering and would be awesome to see in SM.
Hey kan, i was thinking if changes the initial rotation of the pistons would make a difference on the dyno. Like now you have a sequence of 1-2-3-4 when the piston goes down, maybe try 1-3-2-4 or others configurations. Or you can even try to put less angle on each piston like 60 degrees instead of 90, but I think it's a little more complicated.
Putting less angle between pistons helps but requires a matching number of pistons, so he couldn't use that for this challenge. You cannot make a 4-piston engine with just 60° offset, you'd have little to no power for 1/3 of each rotation unless you use a multiple of 6 pistons. You want to always keep the offset as 360/c with c being the number of crankshaft cams (which should match the number of pistons unless you're getting fancy with multiple pistons on each cam) Changing the activation/firing order of the pistons can squeeze a tiny bit more performance out of the engine, but it's mostly done to reduce vibration and wear. If you're referring to the starting position of the cams (ie, you mean he should have made the crankshaft start as an _x_ instead of a +), that really only effects the starting torque. It would let the engine start under a larger load, but it wouldn't increase the actual power or speed of the engine.
Are your torque locks in the wrong orientation? I noticed that your engine rotates one way at 13:17 and during all the dyno tests but the opposite direction at 21:37 (end of the video). By 'torque locks' i mean the linkages the prevent slippage along the shaft. See 7:33 where kAN builds them. At 21:37, it appears that the engine is rotating in the way that engages the torque locks. Whereas, at 13:17, the torque locks are disengaged and effectively useless. Same for during the dyno tests. You can even see a torque lock completely separated at 18:49 during one of the tests. (Please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.)
should revisit the explosive engines. you could use the tnt now for smaller cylinders, and theres better logic blocks now you could take advantage of. want to see it hooked up to the dyno.
Congratulations, your I4 engine officially produces more horsepower than a 1976 Ford Fiesta L 😆 Seriously though, great video, very fun to watch you and Kosmo build stuff!
It's been shown in previous videos that balancing does make a difference. Why not make the crank look more like those in real engines? What you have is sort of a weird unbalanced crossplane crank.
If you are talking about the unstable inline 4 Kan made, the problem had nothing to do with weight, it was simply that piston nr1 was blocking the view of sensor nr4 for a split second.
2:26 I dunno if it’s just me, but this is the first time I’ve seen him paint his bearing in a long time. Could just be me, I’ve been watching his scrap mechanic in high school, kinda stopped during college.
I'm personally more of a fan of increasing STROKE rather than CRANK length. Gives you the leverage without the RPM penalty. The locking mechanism was real clever, though. I'm gonna have to experiment with that one
@@theannihilator665 keep the crank like on a minimum-length motor, just put the rail that the piston sits on to rotate further back and have a rod before the piston
@@Wheagg no offense bro, but I barely even understood what you're trying to say, you mean having the piston further from the center of the crankshaft correct?
@@theannihilator665 not your fault cause it's difficult to explain but basically you put more distance between the piston and the bearing above the crank. Now the crank is the same, but the piston is pushing at less of an angle, so you lose less of that torque from the piston pushing to the side
Maybe, you guys should do a "Piston engine only" race or "Car recreation challange" where you have to build a car and it has to be powered by the original type of engine it had in real life!
inline 4 engines are almost always never all offset by 90 degrees from eachother, rather pistons 1&4 are on the same stroke & are 180 degrees from 2&3. Flat Plane Crankshaft would be a good term for you to google to come up with some interesting ideas on where to take the content from here (btw, if you dont do this - then I am 100% going to start making some fire Scrap Mechanic videos that are gonna slap on the YT algorithm lol)
The reason gas engines in SM produce over 7k Nm of torque is because those torque figures aren't unusual for torque at the wheels on real cars. It's just geared down a ton. Dealers usually quote the torque at the engine (before the gearbox) because it directly correlates to the engine's power output.
Kinda curious with the magnet mod if you could test a solenoid engine, where the magnets pull the “Piston” up on the downstroke, and see the difference on your magnet motor
Extending the crank wouldn’t increase torque at all. The crank is the shaft you connect to the dyno (output shaft). What you extended was the connecting rods, this would realistically give you more torque
Kan: "I can use the collision to lock the crankshaft with pipes." Also Kan: "Encoder wheel can directly rub against the sensors cause creations have no collisions with itself." 👍
Could you maybe go back to the combustion engine you did with the explosives and use hidden magnets now? Haven't tested durability of the magnet block myself yet 🤷♂️
I don't know if the locking system vibrations actually has any effect on the performance, also since you've decided to make it crossplane rather than flatplane, you introduced so much more vibration that the locking system balance probably doesn't really matter either way. It should be possible to build the crankshaft in one piece though since you're working with 90° angles. With a V you'd need the locking system though unless you're planning to build a 90° V.
I would love to see them engine dynoed and then put onto a test chassic or custom built chassis (doesnt really matter) and then race them. Also a way to look at the drivetrain loss with a hub dyno on a vehicle.
funny Kan built an inline with a cross-plane crank and Kosmo built a V-engine with a flat plane. I would think it would work better the other way around... IRL flat-plane usually make more power for their less rotating mass.
The equation for horsepower i think is torque multiplied by rpm divided by a fixed number (I don't remember what it is and it depends on the unit of torque)
Your axle locks were ineffective for most of the video. You would have needed to spin the engine in the other direction for them to do anything. (Or connect the load to the other end of the shaft.) You can see that at 20:12, the first and second cranks are pulled to be parallel. But then you swapped the rotation of your engine at 22:00, that's why the torque locks worked when you explained them.
hp=speed torque=strength torque comes from the power of the piston acting on the crank while horse power comes from speed of the engine and how fast it can roatate in a giving amount of time from idle to full throttle and rev limite
Not entireley accurate. Torque is strength, rpm is speed, hp is just a product of those two factors(how much torque it can produce at a speed). For example, 100rpm 200NM will be the exact same hp as 200rpm 100NM. However, in real life, more hp usually means more speed because torque and rpm can sorta float around and change in a gearbox.
The only thing I can't make is a Differential that actually gives my cars Equal power on the powered wheels. It's always the side that has the gear which the driveshaft acts upon that gets slightly more.
Adding a trammel gear (I prob spelt that wrong, you know the thing) to gear up that slower engine should give a higher horsepower *and* be more stable than a faster engine would be.
I wonder if the torque with the piston engines on here would be different if you had it so it was doing the same sequence as an actual real engine so with 4 pistons you would have it goes 1342
What you where calling the crank was the piston rod the crank is what connects the rotation of the the piston to the transmission the rods are what connect the piston head to the crank the more you know
Make sure to check out Kosmo and give him pointers on how to make his engines better! Also give me pointers too... ruclips.net/video/tuaU9bWzL6I/видео.html
can the next challenge be making vehicles with the engines and have a race
i am a little curious, is there a way for us to download your mods in the workshop and all?
i don't even have SM i am just asking for if i ever get it, i don't think an I3 runs it though.
kan maybe you need someone to cut down your ego and do better than you lmao.
Here is my tip for you:
The sensors and logic gates all have a 0.025 second delay, so the faster your engine goes, the worse the timing gets. This means that you should advance the timing as the engine goes faster.
You should try hook up your explosive engine on the dyno, maybe you'll be able to make a car using it after all this time
man I cant wait for in 2 years when piston engines beat a level 5 gas engine
There are designs that currently can actually
@@Ben_Bingo700+hp?
Yeah there are some crazy engines out there. We already beat them by torque, but speed is trickier
@@_miobrot_603 magnetmotors are the future, man. They've gotta be
@@_miobrot_603 kein has an engine that can do both
Please, please do a piston powered survival run.
It would have lots of different vehicles with differently tuned engines for different roles of the vehicles; like a high torque slow speed for a crate carrier, or a really small high speed low torque to power your drills. It would make you create lots of unique, industrial and cool looking vehicles due to the new and really interesting constraints introduced.
"Creativity doesn't just love constraints; it thrives under them." - someone smart, I can't remember who
It would be cool if it was more than 2 fps
love this idea, kan should definitely do it
Maybe you and Kosmo could do a Hill Climb challenge with piston engines?
i think the piston engines are a bit too big to fit in something like a car
@@samik_456 oh they definitely fit...
@@FancyDucko it would probably only fit in like a huge car
@@samik_456 no not really... I personally have made one, and they fit just fine
@@FancyDucko can you show it on your channel
For one of those big 7-8 extension engines, you should look into the massive reciprocating steam engines of the old ocean liners (titanic style yk). They are feats of engineering and would be awesome to see in SM.
I wonder if it would change the hp value of you changed the firing order? Might help with balance like if it was 1,4,2,3
This feels like noob vs pro has been revived in spirit! I love it.
I just love how kAN takes toilet humor to the next level and involves actual toilets.
Nice pfp.
Toilets ate the best item in scrap mechanic
@@naniwara8673 Why thank you, right back at you.
@@naniwara8673boat
Hey kan, i was thinking if changes the initial rotation of the pistons would make a difference on the dyno. Like now you have a sequence of 1-2-3-4 when the piston goes down, maybe try 1-3-2-4 or others configurations. Or you can even try to put less angle on each piston like 60 degrees instead of 90, but I think it's a little more complicated.
Putting less angle between pistons helps but requires a matching number of pistons, so he couldn't use that for this challenge. You cannot make a 4-piston engine with just 60° offset, you'd have little to no power for 1/3 of each rotation unless you use a multiple of 6 pistons.
You want to always keep the offset as 360/c with c being the number of crankshaft cams (which should match the number of pistons unless you're getting fancy with multiple pistons on each cam)
Changing the activation/firing order of the pistons can squeeze a tiny bit more performance out of the engine, but it's mostly done to reduce vibration and wear.
If you're referring to the starting position of the cams (ie, you mean he should have made the crankshaft start as an _x_ instead of a +), that really only effects the starting torque. It would let the engine start under a larger load, but it wouldn't increase the actual power or speed of the engine.
19:19 reminds me of the time kan snapped an axle on his car trying to impress a girl.
Please keep doing this series with the dyno it's amazing. So many new ideas with this dyno its insane
Are your torque locks in the wrong orientation? I noticed that your engine rotates one way at 13:17 and during all the dyno tests but the opposite direction at 21:37 (end of the video).
By 'torque locks' i mean the linkages the prevent slippage along the shaft. See 7:33 where kAN builds them.
At 21:37, it appears that the engine is rotating in the way that engages the torque locks.
Whereas, at 13:17, the torque locks are disengaged and effectively useless. Same for during the dyno tests. You can even see a torque lock completely separated at 18:49 during one of the tests.
(Please feel free to correct me if i'm wrong.)
You guys might enjoy Automation and BeamNG. The ability to make your own engine and vehicles and then drive them around is pretty cool. Great video :)
Love the vids I have been watching your channel for years. Loved watching the streams.
I think he built the locks for the wrong direction but i guess it didn’t matter in the end.
Im sure he did too. they need to lock from back (encoder) to front (output shaft) and he did the opposite
I was thinking the same thing, I’m glad someone else noticed, proves I’m not crazy lol
I think the locks are the right way if you are accounting for a heavy load on the output shaft.
should revisit the explosive engines. you could use the tnt now for smaller cylinders, and theres better logic blocks now you could take advantage of. want to see it hooked up to the dyno.
I would like to see you make a vehicle for both your engines.
Try with not welding them on the ground, I did some testing and they worked better and more consistent.
Love this video 👍🏽
Kan I think it would be pretty interesting when you try to build a fully mechanical car
I'd love it if it was a series where he tackles 1 part per video. That would really let him make a car as accurately as possible.
How about adding multiple piston engines to single gear shaft and powering the torque meter?
In my experience, each piston pushes at a certain pretty exact point so they end up fighting each other on specific rotations
@@Wheagg you could easly synchronize them
18:49 the locks were backwards for the direction of rotation, and the peak power was the power of one piston
0:14 except the centrifugal forces would be pushing it BACK IN!
I wish we could join you in some of these challenges, like this one.
Kan literally a 4 cyl long 2 stroke diesel, "its like a diesel"
even though Kan's engine had less rpm I'm sure that could be fixed with a gear ratio
it certainly has the torque to handle a high gear ratio
Congratulations, your I4 engine officially produces more horsepower than a 1976 Ford Fiesta L 😆
Seriously though, great video, very fun to watch you and Kosmo build stuff!
It's been shown in previous videos that balancing does make a difference. Why not make the crank look more like those in real engines? What you have is sort of a weird unbalanced crossplane crank.
If you are talking about the unstable inline 4 Kan made, the problem had nothing to do with weight, it was simply that piston nr1 was blocking the view of sensor nr4 for a split second.
2:26
I dunno if it’s just me, but this is the first time I’ve seen him paint his bearing in a long time.
Could just be me, I’ve been watching his scrap mechanic in high school, kinda stopped during college.
Kan you and kosmo should build a car or truck of your choice and put the piston engine In it and race them i think this would be really cool to watch
I'm personally more of a fan of increasing STROKE rather than CRANK length. Gives you the leverage without the RPM penalty. The locking mechanism was real clever, though. I'm gonna have to experiment with that one
how tf do you increase stroke without increasing crank length? they have a direct relationship
@@theannihilator665 keep the crank like on a minimum-length motor, just put the rail that the piston sits on to rotate further back and have a rod before the piston
@@Wheagg no offense bro, but I barely even understood what you're trying to say, you mean having the piston further from the center of the crankshaft correct?
@@theannihilator665 not your fault cause it's difficult to explain but basically you put more distance between the piston and the bearing above the crank. Now the crank is the same, but the piston is pushing at less of an angle, so you lose less of that torque from the piston pushing to the side
@@Wheagg ah i follow now
You absolutely teased us all mentioning the piston engine challenge pack pt2
Maybe, you guys should do a "Piston engine only" race or "Car recreation challange" where you have to build a car and it has to be powered by the original type of engine it had in real life!
inline 4 engines are almost always never all offset by 90 degrees from eachother, rather pistons 1&4 are on the same stroke & are 180 degrees from 2&3. Flat Plane Crankshaft would be a good term for you to google to come up with some interesting ideas on where to take the content from here (btw, if you dont do this - then I am 100% going to start making some fire Scrap Mechanic videos that are gonna slap on the YT algorithm lol)
The reason gas engines in SM produce over 7k Nm of torque is because those torque figures aren't unusual for torque at the wheels on real cars. It's just geared down a ton. Dealers usually quote the torque at the engine (before the gearbox) because it directly correlates to the engine's power output.
What about explosion engine with gearing?
Kinda curious with the magnet mod if you could test a solenoid engine, where the magnets pull the “Piston” up on the downstroke, and see the difference on your magnet motor
kAN and Kosmo having a digital truck pull over here
I love these Who Can Make The Most Powerful videos
Extending the crank wouldn’t increase torque at all. The crank is the shaft you connect to the dyno (output shaft). What you extended was the connecting rods, this would realistically give you more torque
Kan: "I can use the collision to lock the crankshaft with pipes."
Also Kan: "Encoder wheel can directly rub against the sensors cause creations have no collisions with itself."
👍
Really cool! Needs a proper firing order of 1324.
What if you had a variable crankshaft with pistons instead of pipe?
That’s what I was thinking. You could vary the cam length by replacing the straight pipes woth pistons
just realised you've made a engine that would be like a diesel engine irl: long stroke, crazy torque, and good hp.
0:36 Anyone else noticed the fact that when Kan said it’s really simple Kosmo’s character’s eyes looked really bored
hp battles in SM is just awesome
the torsion bars are smart
Could you maybe go back to the combustion engine you did with the explosives and use hidden magnets now? Haven't tested durability of the magnet block myself yet 🤷♂️
It would be awesome if you could upload this to the workshop, I'd love to mess with it.
I don't know if the locking system vibrations actually has any effect on the performance, also since you've decided to make it crossplane rather than flatplane, you introduced so much more vibration that the locking system balance probably doesn't really matter either way. It should be possible to build the crankshaft in one piece though since you're working with 90° angles. With a V you'd need the locking system though unless you're planning to build a 90° V.
I would love to see them engine dynoed and then put onto a test chassic or custom built chassis (doesnt really matter) and then race them. Also a way to look at the drivetrain loss with a hub dyno on a vehicle.
Maybe there could be a Helicopter build battle next?
funny Kan built an inline with a cross-plane crank and Kosmo built a V-engine with a flat plane. I would think it would work better the other way around... IRL flat-plane usually make more power for their less rotating mass.
The equation for horsepower i think is torque multiplied by rpm divided by a fixed number (I don't remember what it is and it depends on the unit of torque)
Your axle locks were ineffective for most of the video. You would have needed to spin the engine in the other direction for them to do anything. (Or connect the load to the other end of the shaft.) You can see that at 20:12, the first and second cranks are pulled to be parallel.
But then you swapped the rotation of your engine at 22:00, that's why the torque locks worked when you explained them.
Wounder if you could try a real i-4 firing order?
hp=speed torque=strength
torque comes from the power of the piston acting on the crank while horse power comes from speed of the engine and how fast it can roatate in a giving amount of time from idle to full throttle and rev limite
Not entireley accurate. Torque is strength, rpm is speed, hp is just a product of those two factors(how much torque it can produce at a speed). For example, 100rpm 200NM will be the exact same hp as 200rpm 100NM. However, in real life, more hp usually means more speed because torque and rpm can sorta float around and change in a gearbox.
It might struggle a little on the lag department but yall should do magnet engines next
22:03 probably 2000, since that’s the power of a controller
The only thing I can't make is a Differential that actually gives my cars Equal power on the powered wheels. It's always the side that has the gear which the driveshaft acts upon that gets slightly more.
I’d like to see a tractor pull competition, please.
Adding a trammel gear (I prob spelt that wrong, you know the thing) to gear up that slower engine should give a higher horsepower *and* be more stable than a faster engine would be.
yall should do this again but on automation
basically you've made a tractor engine, huge displacement inline 3 or 4 with low rpm but tons of torque.
You should do a scrap mechanic survival mode with only piston engines
he says assisted toilet pooping, yet the way the spinning is applying forces would make the poop go back to where it came
color mode piston add 1 tick delay to response, u better just delete the un used block in the decoder
is it possible to do that pistons not only extend but retract too that would make more torque
You should do a battlebots episode with piston engines
You need to try an inline 5 engine because of the more overlapping power strokes
Stormeorks also has steam engines now
do you think you could make a gas turbine engine? Probably not since it's a turbine. But it'd be cool because that's what they use on the M1 Abrams
You casually built a better engine than my irl cars engine in scrap mechnic
Video idea piston radial engine for a plane or something
The pipes against the bearing slip are a great idea but the wrong way around, right?
I wonder if the torque with the piston engines on here would be different if you had it so it was doing the same sequence as an actual real engine so with 4 pistons you would have it goes 1342
I think the problem is that piston engines are close to a 2-stroke in function then a 4-stroke which means you would need a different timing order
how do any of the pistons add to the power if they just have a bearing in the shaft in front of it
Piston engine race 2.0 :0
With this power you'll start moving the map not the vehicle you put it in 😂
Kan's engine outputs the same amount of torque, with a severelly souped up Scania DC16 V8 turbodiesel...
this is just more complicated trailmakers
What you where calling the crank was the piston rod the crank is what connects the rotation of the the piston to the transmission the rods are what connect the piston head to the crank the more you know
wil you please just go do another one of the pisten powered challenges?
Now install that to a truck and compete who can pull the heaviest load
Hey do you have a list of Mods you use for this game? If so can you share what you list is?
after i watched this vid i made a inline 4 piston engine that had a torque value of 6000, small and fast
Wouldn't the forces on that toilet just fling the poo back up at you? Might need to redesign the piston powered pooper before you bring it to market.
Should have put them together and then ran dyno
You should really check out besiege, it's far better for building engines with less wonky physics :)
nice vid man!
DO THIS WITH A PISTON ENGINE EXPERT PLEASEEEEEEEEEEEEE
You know, a black painted engine, so you can locate oil leaks
I recently found that you can make a spud powered engine
evolution? and try to make the ultimate hp engine with unlimited pistons
Derail valley please
Please
Why would they have different hp if they have the same amount of pistons?
Noob VS Pro: Piston Engine Edition
Btw, controllers actually have 4000Nm, not 2000Nm.
Highest hp/torque ive seen yet is 200hp 12000nm at 120rpm
@kaNGaming piston speed is piston strenght
The crank is the same, your RODS are longer.