WHERE HAVE ALL THE CARPENTERS GONE?! (Why The Trade Labor Shortage Is Only Beginning...)
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- Опубликовано: 2 апр 2021
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The growing trade labor shortage is a crises that has not quite struck home yet...but it's about to. This short video from The Honest Carpenter discusses how the generational decrease in trade participation is hitting the entire construction industry. But it's affecting some trades more than others...
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For more reading on the trade labor shortage, check out some of the publications and articles below:
www.homeadvisor.com/research/...
pro.homeadvisor.com/r/7-solut...
remodelersadvantage.com/ep-80...
www.bridgingamericasgap.org/wh...
www.foxbusiness.com/economy/e...
digitalcommons.calpoly.edu/cg...
www.foxbusiness.com/economy/c...
www.bloomberg.com/news/articl...
www.boston25news.com/news/sho...
www.adeccousa.com/employers/r...
WHERE HAVE ALL THE CARPENTERS GONE?! (Why The Trade Labor Shortage Is Only Beginning...)
For what it's worth, I think that the trade labor shortage is a reflection of a true paradigm shift. A hundred years ago, nearly every job in the world was primarily physical. For that reason, physical labor was considered cheap, because everyone engaged in it to some degree. You had your choice of workers to pick from.
Now, so many of our jobs are intellectual in nature. There are so many places to go and work that aren't really physical at all.
When these jobs were fewer, and fewer people were qualified to do them, they were considered high-value. But as they have multiplied, their relative value has decreased overall (except for certain positions).
But at the same time, people have maintained their view that trade labor is not very valuable. And yet, they completely neglect the fact that FAR FEWER people are doing it now, and it is in EXTREMELY high demand.
In a way, I think that blue collar jobs will slowly become sort of the next steady white collar jobs, as the general population is forced to adjust, slowly over decades, its understanding of the value of these jobs.
When you can't find a carpenter anywhere, a good, independent carpenter will suddenly seem very high value. And I believe that this should be reflected in their pay.
Thank you for watching!
Ethan 
Хобби
That is so true!
Okay, I just finished watching the entire video and I have to say that is sooooooooo so true! You hit the nail on the head, no pun intended. Been doing carpentry for over 35 years. There are no young people in any of the trades where I'm at. Just a bunch of middle-aged & old guys plugging along. No sure who going to take over in the future. And you right about the pay. Doesn't seem right.
Thank you, T.E! I’m doing a reprisal of this video soon, specifically about how youth interest in the trades has vanished. I have an idea for how I can maybe help with this in a small way, I’ll just need some support from folks. Keep an eye out for that one!
i used to do labor getting paid #13 an hour which was cool. there was this crazy carpenter dude on our crew who used to get paid #36 an hour... back then i thought he was getting paid well (we got paid weekly) but now i know why he was crazy.
So that guy that rewired my house and laid the wires for the tv points and then put the facia plates on without connecting the wires to the the plates? he was so sweet ... or was he so stupid?
@@TheHonestCarpenter this is planned, western governments & corpo-capitalists that own them & own the land want to drive up housing costs by about 4-6 times (See Toronto & GTA Golden horse shoe) with the excuse that there are no skilled tradesman, once the value is set so high, they’ll want to import cheap labourers from India Africa & latin America to do this work with excuse: 1) poor foreign people need some USD currency to survive in their own countries and so they’ll be seasonal workers. 2) so anti-immigration folks and pro-immigration folks are both happy, 3) so that the economy is transitioned into FinTech, Biotech, Quantum Tech, Materials chemistry & other innovations (which really means full blown automation) By then they can build houses really cheap & charge so much rent, cuz with their CBDCs digital currency, no one will own anything or be able to afford anything including health care (see MAID - medically assisted death aka state sponsored suicide TIKTOK VIDEO CANADA) The idea is either to shrink the western hemisphere population to have an ideal Type 1 civilization (for that they need total global control so bye to Russia/China and any sovereign nation) or they are just bored crazy maniacs who want to expedite the second coming (aka False Messiah) Democrat vs Republican reasoning i’m not sure.
Man, who woulda thought that abusing trade workers, underpaying, neglecting them, and removing those curriculums from schools would make a shortage.
How else could the top guys in the union make crazy bucks? Union work is the ultimate fuck you to meritocracy. The guy that lasts the longest without quitting or dying or being forced out due to politics is the guy that gets the biggest check. Everyone else is just waiting for him to die or retire.
When the industry is growing, that's great. The guys at the top roll in cash. When the industry is not growing, you have a bunch of old people at the top wanting their payday, but there's not enough new workers to exploit.
When I was at school (27 now, plumber) we were told that we had to decide on a career path, so as to know which university course to enter after school. This was important, because if we failed, we might be forced into trade work!
Anyway, I got into plumbing by chance, but it's treated me well. I know a lot of people who went to university, because that seemed the logical next step after school, only to end up in jobs they are over qualified for.
@@mildyproductive9726 how are you blaming unions for this?
@@amyglynn6827
In union work, the longer you are in the union, the more you get paid. When this trade has too many veterans at the top, and too few at the bottom, the new workers get overworked for shit pay, and no one wants to enter the field.
Then the old guard starts complaining that there's not enough workers. They really mean that their system has broken, because growth was unsustainable. And due to slow down of carpentry work, the system looks more like a ponzi scheme without enough suckers trying to buy in.
If new carpenters were paid by supply and demand, you'd have exactly enough carpenters. But then the older guys in the union wouldn't be able to make way more money vs. the new guys. It is nice to be able to rely on union membership to one day make near doctor-money for swinging a hammer... until there aren't enough new guys "paying their dues" to support your retirement.
@@amyglynn6827 really the union sounds great at first, but when you get into it you find out it’s bad. Entry level guys only get work last, no pay if you don’t work. The old guys stay in there until they die because they don’t have to do shit and get paid 10x the lower guys doing all the work. It’s exactly everything socialist tell you capitalism is. Oh and you have to pay every month just to be on a list hoping to get to work. Not to mention work is being outsourced to illegal immigrants so the demand for union guys is destroyed. Then you college educated people think that labor work should be ultra cheap because it don’t require an education, but it does and if gov would stop excessive immigration the market could balance out and rich would have to shell out money for the labor creating less of a pay gap allowing a middle class. But the elites lobby for immigration to keep labor cheap and profits high.
This is a great wood project book ruclips.net/user/postUgkxkPIWb22DigCqxmlXerCyUF4HCl6eSU2L . Most of the projects use the pallet simply as a source of reclaimed wood not as a recognizable pallet so even if you didn't have a pallet you could make these projects with any reclaimed (or even new) wood. The instructions are excellent. The style is charming and would work with lots of different decor. There are quite a number of projects that involve tiling of teh wood pieces which is a really cool idea and can produce beautiful pieces when working with aged wood.
Growing up my father repeatedly told me to never get into the trades(he did electrical), the work was so difficult and unrewarding, and I would see him suffer from the stress of work and alcoholism. I was pushed into college by school counselors and parents, and after graduation was not able to find a decent job (in the US anyway). Years later, he congratulates and is proud of other young men getting into the trade, while putting down people who went to college. It's those kind of mind games that makes his generation insufferable.
This is the first time I've heard of anyone saying not to get into a trade. Your dad was insane. Though I agree on the college funnel. Frankly, not everyone needs college and now we have a generation of underpaid and overqualified kids with crippling debt and a distaste for any sort of handiwork
@@bignickenergy3525 My dad pushed me to go to college. The trades aren't for everyone and there's not a lot of money in the trades. For every rare guy making $200k as a tradesmen, I can match against a software dev making $350-400k while working from their mansion.
My friends that graduated from college were gifted 5 houses from their parents just for finishing (they owned more than 100). The trades make good money at time, by you can't forget that the tradesmen who own their own shop can't compete with Bay Area start ups who can pull millions. Or business majors that can pull down millions with just as much hard work.
This is how tradesmen generally treat any potential apprentices. Every day is mind games, ridicule and abuse. All while being paid in a week what they make in one hour. Toxic industry from bottom to top.
My whole family are tradesmen. You’d think I’d know all sorts of tips and tricks. Hell, I worked on the job site my entire teens. Only problem is I was never taught anything. As soon I was given an opportunity to actually do anything other than clean up or carry materials I was immediately screamed at for either going too slow or because I was doing it wrong and kicked off of the task. Never had the opportunity to actually get a hang of anything. As I got older I would get called stupid and all sorts of names because when they were my age they knew how to do it all. The older generation are the problem.
Are you me? That's the reason why I never learned anything either and then they blame me!
My dad is a carpenter and he recently had to switch to a desk job because he's getting older. I remember going to work with him when I was really little because my parents couldn't afford to pay for child care. He carved an incredible set of front doors with the aztec calendar in them. His clients were all wealthy, but sometimes they would try to not pay him. I can't blame anyone for not wanting to deal with absolute nonsense like that.
This is why whenever I made something for someone, pay up 80% of the cost upfront. I can’t gift anything anymore. Things are just too tight.
Nice
25% up front plus half for materials. then at each stage youi ask for payment as per contract. No payment you walk away! Make sure to document your work as well as time and effort, vidoes of you doing the work and get signoff for bneing on site each and every day by the GC or homew owner! Documentation is everything in a lawsuit.
"His clients were all wealthy, but sometimes they would try to not pay him." If I had not had my own business with such people as clientele, I would not have believed this, but yeah, people can be amazingly ballsy.
wealthy people don't become wealthy by being generous or honest in their business dealings.
I used to be a carpenter. I now make twice a much money doing something else. There is something wrong with building houses all day and not being able to afford one yourself.
You can afford a house but you gotta work 6-7 days a week no vacations and you must forget you exist
Exactly how I felt!!
I actually work mandatory up to 10hr 6 or 7 days per week now, but it's double time on Sunday and triple time on holidays. There's 10,000 different kinds of jobs and all of them can't find people who actually show up, just dumb enough to do the work without being a threat of taking the bosses job or becoming a competitor after learning how the business works.
@@minedustry Can confirm, I was fired once because a customer saw my work style and my hand skills, didn't like my bosses attitude and then in the middle of the job right in front of him asked me if I was interested in building them a custom built in media center with all media/data wires wired internally and plated to the wall since my boss has turned that job down. I was fired for not blatantly telling her that my skills and capabilities were owned by the boss.
I'm the 69th like of this comment. 😏
i tried for 2 years to get a carpentry apprenticeship. every one expected 1 year of experience... That year of experience is what that apprenticeship is meant to provide. Everyone wants hard workers but nobody wants to train someone.
Yeah seriously just lie they'll just assume you got shit training for that year
actually it's not so much no one wants to do it but no one wants to PAY for it. it always boils down to some way to get something for nothing.
Dude I just commented on this .. i tried so many times to get into the unions and trade companies but they either want an apprentice of at least one year or they want experience in whatever trade you are applying .. doesn’t make sense I hear there’s a shortage of young guys but when young guys apply with no experience they don’t want them .. 🤷♂️
as a roofer myself, the reason being for this is because once they get a bit learned up they feel like they earn a shit-load more or competition snicks them away.
I'm not saying i dont want to pay up for a good worker but dont expect a 10y salary once youve just learned the trade a bit
@@markhughes2611 unfortunately that is what has to be done to get that experience in.
I was a carpenter for over 20 years, I started my career in Oregon when I was a teenager. The pay was shit and the only way to demand more money at that time was to become a master level carpenter by learning basically everything but the older guys “gate kept” their knowledge out of fear of being replaced. I can’t even remember how many times I asked a journeyman to teach me how to build stairs on a jobsite just to be laughed at. Then one day the construction calculator was invented so I went out and bought one for like $100 which was alot of money for a kid back in the 90’s who was making $12 hr. But once I bought it I soon realized that I had no idea how to use it, but I knew if I studied the manual long enough Id get it. So I studied the manual every night for a couple hours and would build houses on paper and in my mind until my fictitious measurements and divisions would “pencil out” and I became confident enough to be able to tackle a project without embarrassing myself. As time went on I did a few stair cases and learned how to do hip and valley cuts on roofs until one day I asked my boss for a raise. After all I had learned I thought $5 was fair he offered $2 so I quit and moved to California and was immediately hired as a foreman making $25. I quickly realized that there were “good cities” and “bad cities” to work in as a carpenter and with that knowledge in hand I moved to many great cities on the west coast eventually moving to Hawaii, by the time I quit the industry I was in my early thirties, working 3-4 days a week and made 150k a year (which was barely getting by in Hawaii) my advice to apprentice carpenters is to not stay at any one company for too long, instead of waiting for a raise just apply at another shop and get that raise immediately. And also be willing to move where the money is. It doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to know that the pay in Honolulu is going to be considerably more attractive than the pay in Eugene Oregon
Thank you so much! This is motivational
All the young people know to job hop every couple years to maximize earnings. It's the only way to diversify your experience and make the most out of any skill/trade.
I'm an electrician and I learned very quickly that the easiest way to move up (get a raise, learn more, take on more responsibility) was to move on to another contractor. Right now I make $46.01/hr working on government contracts as a non-union sparky.
@@LenKirinyou only know because we told you 😂. We showed you how to do that trick.
It's the difference between working with a union and working without. I don't like unions, but they definitely get you the pay you deserve.
Preach it, man. I'm leaving the trade myself because of low wages.. it barely pays rent. And it's freaking sad that I build houses for others but can't even afford to have my own
Carpenter and 60 in one month. Live in apartment. Built over 50 houses only in USA.
Same thing here.. i work in Germany as a Carpenter and the payment is nearly 2000-2500euro a month. My house rent costs 1300euro. It's mad how can a house cost so much money. And the payment is just enough to pay rent bills and food. Lets all open youtube/twitch and nobody should work.
It's like a butcher not being able to afford meat
Yea I’m leaning towards leaving. I’m the youngest one at every job I’m only 21 it’s sucks to see fast food and other jobs make a bit less. Yet we more work
As a younger kid who used to be in trades, the 80 hour week standard, work eat and sleep attitude by everyone over 35 really killed it for me. There has to be more to life than just hammering nails and collapsing into bed
some people don't know what to do if they don't have some sorta purpose, like working hammering nails... It is kinda strange
This is why I quit being a mechanic. I got so sick of cars that I even gave up on the 10+ year long resto-mod I was building.
exactly. Theres a reason why people don't want to do it.
Sad to say this but the majority of people in the Trades have no ambition or sense of self-worth and hate people that do. They say things like "gotta put in the work" or "pay your dues" when what they actually mean is that they weren't smart or ambitious enough to go into business for themselves as soon as they possibly could and resent people who refuse to spend decades working their ass off to make other people rich.
...pansy...
It's not just the trades. I see the same thing in industry: real wages declining, job security a distant memory, expectations completely delusional.
True. Working in general just sucks! They want u to be super skilled, pulled in 5 directions LITERALLY!! And dont even make enough to afford a one bedroom and pay your car note to get there.
Live by capootalism, dye by capootalism
I think either Texas or Florida just mandated that employers aren’t obligated to give construction worker water breaks? I may have got part of this wrong, but it boils down to removing protections to insure that construction workers working outdoors in the heat do not have protections for water breaks. That’s the issue, not that I mixed up the state. 😢
It’s called being raped by inflation
Yet 6 figures readily available and still no takers.
My husband is 56 yo and has been in the construction industry for 30+ years. His body is broken and tired and honestly for the amount of money we’ve made through the years in hinds sight we’ve been robbed. The knee and shoulder surgeries he’s facing will be astronomical. We have encouraged our son to stay far away from the trades. People have zero respect for those in the trades industry. I don’t want our son to go through what we have gone through. I want a better life for him.
That’s so sad. It would not be hard to make trades less taxing on the body and having a better pay but that would require the bosses to make less money and safely we all know it’s not gonna happen. I a carpenter myself and I wish only the best for you husband and you kid
@@inkognito3145 thank you very much.
How long were you a carpenter and if you werent why are you speaking as if your pain paid for what you have?
Same with football players.
America will plunder and squeeze you dry. This place is a tomb for men. Prison planet.
I used to be a carpenter for 5 years. Got all the way up to a foreman. My body hurt all the time, the weather sucked. Started in my early twenties. I now work as a mechatronics technician, make almost triple what I used to, and it's significantly less stressful and hurtful. My time as a carpenter was harder then my military service (navy).
I'm ex navy and a house framer so my question is what the heck was your rating to make it that bad? Were you a seabee or in deck division or something.
I was an EM in the navy. I think it was more that my carpenter time was also basically a walking osha violation mixed with very long hours.
@@drost47 I was a DC. And my first osha violation was for no fall restraint. I am as well, a walking osha violation. Hello fellow snipe/ carpenter dude. Peace to you.
but i bet you were a beast in a bedroom.
Another casualty of our generational break in the trades is the lack of guidance. If you don't have a family member or friend who's in the trades, nobody is there to tell you how things *really* work.
When I was 17, I tried to get into the carpenter's union. They put my name down on a queue for the pre-apprenticeship. A year later, I got connected and discovered that nobody was actually drawn from the list in reality-- you needed to have someone to 'sponsor' you, at which point you could be selected. If I hadn't gotten lucky, I'd be another of thousands of young aspiring carpenters who just couldn't get in.
I spent a year walking into sites with my bags on, looking for work. I framed sheds and practised all manner of things on my own. I read books, tried to understand what I was doing. I visited probably around 50 sites, at least one a week, and nobody was willing to take me on board, even for below minimum wage. The gatekeeping in the trades can be a bit insane sometimes
It's like they want, fit young, workers with 50 years experience. They won't train, they act like the world is a video game.
The only reason the guy in the video was able to get in was because someone was mentoring him since 13. A newbie doesn't stand a chance
As someone who's trying to get into the trades (Masonry) this is the first thing I noticed, have seen ads posted for months begging for workers but because I have no experience no one is willing to give me a chance, the gatekeeping is the #1 problem imo. Gonna take what little money I have and move to a different state where the probability of finding a masonry job is higher.
That wasn't experience back in early 2000's, I wanted to be a sparky. I gave up trying to find an apprenticeship and retrained in IT, and I got scooped up within weeks of completing my course.
its the old boomers in the trades (same issues are in every other field with them). They dont want to mentor they want young guys to make them more money. Thats why they keep the mentoring at a minimum so they can always pay them as low as possible with the young guys having no chance to go anywhere else.
These boomers did that with their own children and now the grandchildren noticed the plan and simply refuse to be abused which pisses those boomers of.
I've been saying it for about 2 years now... Young people are done being paid pennies to do hard work. Thank you for not trashing young people (like most people our age do) thank you for the reality of what's going on
dude ive worked for a whole year as a drive wall worker, 60-70 hours a week and only being paid like 20 euros a day. of course im gonna leave. i dont want to brake myself mentally and physically for that
@@tomislavmidanovic8666 exactly
Exactly dude. I was getting paid less than a Walmart worker. I quit and decided to do something else. Wasn’t worth the physical challenges and the hard work knowing someone is getting high in the back of Walmart making more than me.
I’m 64 and agree with you.. The Man wants you always to work like a galley slave for nothing, but, the chickens are coming home to roost.. Gotta pay more and treat better.. Not rocket science
I make over 100k a year working around 35-40 hrs a week as a union glazier. 52.27 per hour after my benefits which puts me at about 83-85$ an hour. My hourly on my check is often around 58 because I do run work about 70% of the time . The other 30$ or so goes towards my pension, 401k, health and welfare and various other things. I’m not kidding when I say that I’ve made over 25k in a month many times . We get into working 6x10’s or even 7x12’s and the pay is ridiculous! Like 5500 to 6000 PER WEEK. IRS takes a nice bite of it but it’s still a nice paycheck. We do have a licensed, accredited apprenticeship program that runs for 5 years and 10,000 hours between classroom and on the job. My son in law just started working with me (actually a year ago) and he went from $17 up to $23 already. And will continue to climb until he reaches the journeyman scale once he completes the program. I feel like it’s a very respectable, reasonable income. I’ll never get rich but i can honestly say that I cannot remember the last time I wanted for something I couldn’t have.
I really think the shortage is due to the ‘live to work attitude’ & toxic workplace. I’ve seen apprentices get dropped for the stupidest of things to the point of just journeyman not liking them. I feel like all that has to change.
It's a trade. We aren't friends. You have to be good enough to make up for the people not liking you.
@@user-zu5do6ri6rFor $25 an hour? Fuck that, you can make that driving a forklift and wearing headphones all day not dealing with salty fucks
@user-zu5do6ri6r
The issue is gatekeeping. There are people who arent given a proper chance to learn the skills, and so they cant get good enough. If someone isnt given the chance to learn properly, then youre creating your own issue of a labor shortage.
@@pinesandtraplinesbasically our whole society in a nut shell. Everything you can learn is hidden behind a gatekeeper or a fucking pay wall.
@@user-zu5do6ri6ryeah that’s why no one likes tradies. Die alone
Here in France, trades are making a huge come back. I think people realized that most degrees aren't the "guaranteed job" tickets they maybe used to be. Meanwhile trades demand is sky high, pays well, and there are plenty of people hiring. My cousins became carpenter and plumber and they're making bank and love their job lol. I hope that 2 years after you made this video, something similar is happening in the US... And that your ol knee is doing okay too!
Electrician here, 29 years old and been at it since i'm 21. Fully Licensed and have my Red seal certification (Canada btw). I used to charge customers the best price I could do for them but honestly after 5 years of that and scraping by because of the tool costs/fuel/vehicle I started to bid what I felt I was worth. 100$/HR or more often a estimate...I lost alot of customers for a while but I realized something. These people would get a hell of a good price from me and then push me even more on price always looking for deal like my knowledge/skills were in the discount section, the price I gave was never good enough for them. The clients I get now know the value of a good tradesperson and will PAY for the work to be done and done right. They never push back on price and when I get a phone call for something and give a price if the person says "seems pretty expensive, I could of had it done for half that" well guess what, call that guy up and let him burn your house down for cents on the dollar. TBH, younger workers coming in the field now are being paid too little, our first years here can make more at walmart.
Electricians start at 22-25$/h, wallmart is 14$. What are you talking about
@@Lion-hj7ch where im to in Eastern Canada Jman wage for commercial work is $26/h and our apprentices get 60% of that wage as a 1st year so $15.6/h. Hardly worth the actual work you will be doing vs a Mc Donald's or Walmart or at least thats what i've been told by first years I knew that gave up the trade. Your mileage may vary though
@@jasonedgar1622 whoah! That is so strange. I've been in New condo construction in Toronto for 8 years now. I talk to other trades all the time cause my job is dead end and not unionized, I'm have a spot open for framing once they're done the strike. They're offering me 22 for start, my friend started 25. Once you finish your apprentice you make 45-50, plus a bonus if you're good with the company. Plumbers, electricians, HVAC, all get 50+.
Also piece work framers, if they're good, they can make 4000$ a week. Max I've seen 6k a week, but that's not often. Stars have to align for that
I once worked for a boss that believe that the first focus of his company was give the customer the best value for their money. That essentially lead to him not making the best profits from a business standpoint and that trickled down to his employees not being paid very well. And the typical week was 45-50hrs a week, lots of time out of town for the day, and exclusively exterior work all year round. It was brutal and I worked for him for 7 years. I barely got by. If I wasn't a dumb kid burned out of college, I should have moved on long before and started something more lucrative.
Long story short, like you said, don't prioritize giving people a great deal on your expertise. You don't start a company to run a charity.
@@jasonedgar1622 at least your honest, here in new york city ibew its 48 a hour for a journeyman, but first years get only 40 percent, which is 19.2 dollars, once folks year that they run for the hills. remember the way the pay scale is the first three years your wages will be alot lower. So folks decide to work retail or mc donalds while looking for a better situation. The city jobs offer better starting wages and perks like free metro cards, a electrical helper for the new york transit start at 23 a hour and after the first year you can take the test to become a electrical maintainer and go from 23 a hour to 41.
Heck local 94 building eingineers start helpers out at 35 a hour and after four years they make 50 a hour. you start off with 70 percent wages of the journeyman.
This is just my personal experience. I used to work as a carpenter's apprentice. I loved the actual work but I generally hated working with my foreman (not just one but multiple companies). I wasn't the best but I really wanted to learn at one point but getting yelled or insulted for almost every mistake you make along the way isn't fun. Yeah work isn't supposed to be "fun" but when you're lifting heavy materials all day in the sun having someone yell at you just makes it 10x worse. I left the construction industry and I will never look back
Keep your head up dude. Ive quit so many framing jobs I lost count. I'm not going to work my ass of for you, making you money and be treated like shit. I promise, they all missed me. Its a rough crowd, stand your ground.
Okay real talk why shouldn't work, the thing we devote 50+ hours of our weeks to every week for 2/3rds of our life, be something we enjoy?
@@thomaswhite3059 True, that's kinda the whole point. Don't waste your life doing something that you'll get paid for but won't satisfy you. Especially in this day and age where skillsets are so specialized that it can be hard to switch paths once you're set; unless you purposely set yourself up for flexibility early on.
@@lab6895 $11 an hour? Jesus man. The only time I ever got "respected" on the job was when I confronted my foreman about his attitude. Just asked him if we had a problem and why he was being aggressive. The next couple of weeks were fine but still not a great feeling to have to do that on the job.
Foreman have gotten mad at me for asking questions too, really dumb when you think about it. It's literally the only way you learn.
@delreydavid What a boomer ass take. There's a difference between being willing to work for a living and not letting someone treat you like you're less than human.
Summer 2023, can confirm, the trades are still hemorrhaging. No hope in sight, companies still refuse to pay workers real wages. Company I used to work for signed a contract with homebuilders to install equipment in thousands of new homes, while just the previous year they didn't even get all of their scheduled maintenances done due to lack of technicians. Several new trainees left just months after joining for better paying jobs, or to go back to school. I left after they wanted to add more responsibilities to me for an amazing, wait for it, $1 raise. Guaranteed long hours, terrible benefits, and ever worsening weather. Unless you have a good union in your area, which is rare in the states, the trades just aren't worth it for young adults.
Nothing is worth it in America. The medical system is all surgeries and pills( no cures)
The arts are poisonous and college is expensive. Engineering jobs are few and far between. Having a 150 IQ in America and having to stack boxes is miserable.
The taxes and inflation are never ending and always rising. America is a dead corpse of what European men built and left for us. Now the communist empire will begin and total slavery will ensue. I pray for America to end. God wipe this hell from the earth
It’s amazing that the scarcity of good carpenters isn’t able to drive up their perceived value. Should be making so much more.
Its all the hobbyists charging pennies on the hour
"I don't know why people aren't going into the trades?" "My knees don't work anymore and I'm 36." Gotcha.
Need some good knee pads. But need to look at it like you are an athlete because if you don't want to be that guy who is broken by 40, you need to take care of yourself.
True story.
For my job, I sit all day and my knees still hurt, lol.
Comments like that is why people don't do it. Always negative. You sound like you are scared of some hard work.
That's why all the Mexican people are here working (Please look at my second paragraph). I have no ill will towards any of them and I know they're trying to make a living for their family here and in Mexico. People have got to do what they got to do, when our government does what they do with drug enforcement.
Now here's the crux of the matter. Due to the fact we have all the Mexicans here doing construction, It Has Cut The Knees Out From Under The Labor Force With Hourly Wages. As everybody knows labor is an hourly pay job. It's not a salary job and give it a few more years, Mexicans will be doing all the air conditioning work next. Mark my damn words.
I live in Southern California(it might be different here). I think nepotism is killing the trades. Its too difficult to get in. I am an electrician I wanted to switch to carpentry. I wanted to learn different skills with my own handy man business being the goal. To get into the union you needed to be “sponsored”. To get a non union job you needed experience. What it really came down to is you needed to know somebody.
Mahn you want to get paid less by switching from an electrician to a carpenter
@@chriswarren9857 it may not be about money for him, it could simply be building a repertoire!
Also So Cal. I tried to get a carpenter out to replace fascia boards around my roofline while getting the roof done and could not find anyone. The roofer I hired tried to find someone but all his contacts were busy. I ended up just patching the existing boards with epoxy filler, sanding and painting. I've also learned basic plumbing and electrical because I can buy the materials and do it for a fraction of the cost of a tradesperson. Amazing how expensive (per hour) the trades have gotten in the last 30 years.
Come to Florida. No unions and plenty of opportunity. Anyone with 2 hands can make good money. It's not you, it's your LOCATION.
@@sidehustlefinancedoes the florida pay rate for carpentry provide a good life with money after bills?
A lot of carpenters went unemployed during the mortgage crisis. When the housing sector finally recovered, builders complained bitterly that nobody wanted to work.
There's been a labor shortage since 2010; one of the reasons I got out of the business. I lost tens of thousands in contracts because I couldn't get the job done quickly enough.
My dad is a carpenter. He’s 64 and he’s retired twice now. All he has to do is put out the word he’s willing to some work and he has people lining up to pay him $60/hr and he refuses to work more than 5 hours a day if he agrees to do any work at all. Turns down >90% of offers because he makes more money building and selling furniture. Dude is a master and I’m lucky to have him as a dad. I can fix my own everything and building/selling furniture with him is fun.
May I ask, is it because he's well known in his industry by now? I would've thought with the scarcity mentioned, even young carpenters can charge more with the housing boom.
Congratulations on his furniture business!! What kind of furniture does he make??
@@SoloSanguine you ever hear the phrase “you get what you pay for?” 45 years of experience costs extra. Plus, he only does actual carpentry work nowadays 3-4 days a month if that instead working in his shop, so don’t worry - your statistical dunk is still valid.
@@jimknowles5483 Patio furniture mostly. Tried to get into higher end living room stuff, but people keep asking for patio furniture. Sunny climate here...it makes sense.
@@jkdubya85 Hey thanks! Great to see him appreciated for his abilities! Are most of his patio
clients upscale? Or just regular income? I'll bet you can see the quality! Do you have a web site?
Thanks again!
just jim
I once considered getting into carpentry. The problem was that the entry level jobs paid so much less than my restaurant job that I couldn’t justify spending years working harder for significantly less money.
In the Midwest, Lyman USB is hiring starting $20 with no experience. That being said I don't know if I want others to suffer through the job I have. I'm 24 and my knees/bones in my hands start to ache in winter. However if there's only 10 seats on a rocket ship, out of 40/50 I think my seat should be reserved 🤙
@@Dbeau61 there aren't many trees to use the wood for carpentry on Mars, i think your seat might get taken lol
@@Jrock420blam is was a joke lol
In my area, even the apprenticeship positions ask for at least a year or two experience in carpentry or construction. No way in hell can I get my foot in now, where I am in my career.
I work both. Carpentry and a café job
I'm a young guy who went to trade school for HVAC and worked in the field for about a year and a half. When I worked in the field I noticed that guys were making maybe a third at most of what they were charging hourly because of things like insurance costs, tool costs, and the amount of time you were driving as opposed to actually making money. This meant the only way to reliably make a ton was to start a business. Because of my physique (5'8" and 110 lbs) I physically cannot do most labor intensive jobs like furnace installs, condenser swaps, or attic ductwork myself so that makes it nearly impossible for me to start an HVAC business. I realized pretty quickly that if I wanted to make a lot of money I had no choice other than a 4 year degree so I got out of HVAC. The reality is it's orders of magnitude easier for me to make money with a degree than in the trades so I got out.
As a veteran carpenter in Canada, you just summed up my conversation with every client I’ve ever had. We too are tradesppl and deserve as much respect/ money as any other trade. Our scope of knowledge is so much greater than other trades and yet we are the dogs of the industry. Our kids may see the rewards but at 56 I’m doubting Ill see it in my life. Great video !
Blame the smug urban elites for demonizing and dehumanizing trade jobs while at the same time worshipping higher education.
having worked on a few large jobs when I was an apprentice electrician. The job from my outside perspective was that it is a bit mundane and repetitive. Does that mean carpentry as a whole is? No. I even left a comment earlier that if I was exposed to the more craftsmen side of carpentry when I was younger. I might have considered taking up the craft. As out of all the trades, to me. Being a carpenter allows one to have much more fun with the skill set outside of the job for personal projects then plumbing, electrical, or of course elevator work.
I'll be real it's time for everyone to move on, let the robots fuck up so bad they need us
If you let that happen there will be no recovery. I can't find any teachers and I'm balling on a budget. I'm just graduating as an mechanical engineer for a paycheck, i dont even have a job yet. But but trades are my passion. The only option I have is RUclips. Right now but years down the line I might be able to learn. Now imagine the people who don't have a degree making no money minimum wage, the same passion. When all the masters die from old age its just gone all the knowledge. Theirs only so much you can learn from videos and books. Not to mention the "common sense" that years of experience only gives.The robots take over and eventually fail decades down the line there is no repository, it's all been made redundant by robots.
The carpenters scope of knowledge? Lol what drywalling or setting concrete forms? U can teach a 20yr to do that in like a week
A good carpenter makes every other trades life easier. Poor ones create nightmares.
@Jody Whitehead - Said perfectly .
So true, Jody. Ask any plumber who’s found a joist right beneath a toilet flange location 😬
@@TheHonestCarpenter when I started contracting my first job was to correct all the things some bozo did to a sweet lady's house. Whoever it was had no idea what he was doing. The idiot did things like cutting the nailing flanges off custom made windows. the joists were all under size, and not on 16 inch centers. His idea for fixing a leak in the garage was to puit up sheets of thin plywood and caulk the edges. I could go on, but just say it was such a mess it cost more to undo than it would have cost to do it all right in the first place. I could not do much about the widows with the nailing flanges cut off, all I could do was seal around them and put on tight fitting trim. (the lady didn't want to pay for custom fit windows all over again, and I don't blame her.)
@@TheHonestCarpenter Plumber here, we deal with that all the time. Most framers are terrible; crooked studs, twisted floor joists, every hole you drill you hit nails, etc. The difference it makes when you get good framers vs. bad framers is night and day. We did a house about a month ago and the framer actually moved the joist over a few inches because he knew the toilet was going there. I've never seen a framer actually do that before and look out for the plumber like that compared to the house we're doing now which had terrible framers and the joists were dead center where the toilet flanges had to go... on all 3 toilets in the house. The framers were still on site finishing up so we ripped them good. Of course, all we got out of them was 'no habla ingles'.
Very true, I run into that issue a lot.
I'm a 66 year old Carpenter and have always been busy. I have raised my rates to $ 60. an hour . to be a good carpenter doing residential work , you also need to know and understand the needs of the other trades. When my Mechanical tradesmen were telling me of their great importance , i reminded them that without the Carpenter they have no place to hang the pipe, run the wire or ductwork Remembe ALL WORK IS HONORABLE
You are few and far between, and I'm sure you already know that.
You are correct, I have worked as an electrician and a carpenter. Both jobs are hard and they need each other.
Only 60?
As n hvac i conquere
I am 65 in the UK. Still up for it. I have never pitched myself as fast or slow. Good or bad does it for me every time. Horses for courses I say.
30 years ago, Roofers in my area made about $16. Since then, the roofing industry now uses mostly undocumented workers and they now make $16 or less. Undocumented workers will depress wages in all sectors.
I'm a union electrician in Boston. Worked a year non union as well. The only way to come close to being financially independent is to either A) build your own business which could take 5-10 years, or get in the union. No other alternative.
I was local 3 IBEW, we went on a labor strike, and the only people who kept their jobs, was the people who crossed the line.
@@firstnamelastname-os5ro what other way would you imagine? You either work for yourself or you're working for others, can't see any third way really. The problem seems to be either the clients or the toxic atmosphere in the unions, but that is somewhat expectable - people are people.
It seems like the quality of carpentry has gone down too for similar reasons. My house was built in 1959 and when I look at the framing in the attic everything fits together perfectly. My garage was built in 2016 and there’s massive gaps, especially anywhere that involves an angled cut. I think a big part of that is because we prioritize cutting costs via labor which pressures workers to rush rather than take the time to do things right.
To a lot of companies it is speed and not quality that counts. Many years ago my father had lots he wanted to sell and no bank would give a mortgage on an empty lot. He hired a company to build houses on each lot (one at a time) and in the contract he stated that the construction was to be to his satisfaction. Each evening he went to the house and checked that the walls were plumb, straight, and all work was top notch. Several times he had to halt the job to have the carpenters remake an un-square wall or have them tear a wall down because the timbers were all over the place.
You can thank the customers for that. They want cheap quick labor. Good labor is not cheap and it's not quick.
The thing with angled cuts is, and i'm not being sarcastic here, this is a real issue: most carpenters can't do basic trigonometry and mess up the angles.
Aside from some community colleges and trade schools that still give trade certificate training. There is no where else to properly learn the hands on and theory needed for a skilled trade.
So a lot of younger guys have no choice but “eye ball” everything and assume it’s gonna work.
@@alexsmith-ob3lu There are many trade schools that train people in the trades. My son went to a 3 semester school and now after 10 years out he is making just short of 100 thousand dollars. Or try to find a good independent carpenter and app with him. The other way is to find a union program that you like in electrical, plumbing, carpentry, or any other trade and go through their schooling. A person willing to work hard in the trades now can make a great living.
I tried to get into the trades. Getting in was impossible. I gave up after two years. Just taught myself what I needed to know by working on my Mom's house. Might not have been perfect. But I learned a lot. A real shame. Most people don't have time to just sit around and wait to be selected. The trades are losing a lot of good folks by being so restrictive.
I agree, I learned a lot of what I know from my father and the rest from research and trial and error
Learned alot from my father and grandfather cousins uncles we ran a ranch. Fixed our own roofs and put up fences. We built barns that stood in 100 mph winds....i got experience but 'im a woman'
My cousin just got into the plumber’s union after years of waiting, and his father has strong connections to the highway dept. If it was difficult for someone like him, it’s pretty much impossible for most
Funny all the qualifications you need nowadays to be a laborer is being an illegal alien
Let's be clear. You had trouble getting into a trade UNION not the trade itself. Anyone who is not afraid of doing the hard work can get a JOB in a trade craft. Then you turn that job into a CAREER and before you know you are a skilled craftsman.
So true, I always thought carpentry was the hardest trade out of all of the labor work.
Been a carpenter for 35 years , loved every minute of it except the money , I was non union but union carpenters make decent wages. But travel a lot and live in hotels. Only way to make more money was to get a state license which I did in 1994 . I built concrete forms for 2 years , framed 20 plus years , finish carpentry and build furniture. I was fortunate to attend a trade school for 3 years certificate in carpentry and drafting. This trade gave me the confidence to exit the Army after 3 years . I look back carpenters always been under payed ! The conditions we work under , I worked in central Florida as a framer making 12.00 per hour in 1994 working like a triathlete. Start at 7 am by 8 am so humid my socks were soaked from the sweat . Either you go on your own or work for the union . If you go on your own you have to have the courage to charge what your worth, took me years to do this !
I'm an electrician, the son of an electrician, the grandson of a carpenter, the nephew of a welder, a plumber, and a mechanic; I HOPE the trade labor shortage hits them where it hurts. Doctors and tech companies can't work without a building/plumbing/and power. Tradesmen should be paid what they're worth.
in mine shthole country all mentioned tradespeople are satisfied with earning like 3$ per hour, and are only dreaming of 5$-6$ per hour. But the suits are the same, they couldnt allow you get more then they are for their hard sitting in the office 'job', because ... they all are starting to figure out that moment when you starting to earn more then they are (who are the next presidents and so on...)
They dont even try to hide it, they think so low of people in the trades. People have to be so stupid to start a career in a field where everyone is in agreement they are underpaid. They find the dumbest of the dumb people for the trades. anyone with half a brain can see its blatant disrespect towards the worker’s intelligence
Amen brother!!
Idk if you’re a plumber building a hospital (medical gas/oxygen) you’re making pretty dang good money.
They are though? Every tradesman I know is doing very well.
As a 22 year old independent carpenter, electrician, handyman, etc. I work everyday with 2/3 people who are 45+ years old, and have kids my age. This video was very accurate.
Good shit bro , get to that bag 👍🏽👍🏽
I feel you bro. Im 21 years old and i hardly ever see anyone my age in the trade.
@@Babbycomebackk 23 & majority guys I work with have been doing it since before i was born ha,
I'm a 33 year old insulator, mostly work in attics so I can relate to hard work, good luck to you all.
I’m 27 and I’m right there with ya boss
Ex-framer here. 100% agree. Stopped doing it and joined the Army (retired now), which was less dangerous and better paid. Figure that one out....
I remember back in the early 80’s when I was in high school, we had classes like auto shop, metal works, wood shop, and industrial education. Today, none of those classes exist anymore. I think this is the main reason why there is so much shortage. Because when you’re not exposed to them at a young age, you will never consider them as a career.
In 1989 I was making $15 per hour as a framer/carpenter. A couple of weeks ago I saw an ad in the local newspaper for framers- $15-$24 per hour depending on experience. The cost of housing here in North Idaho is 8-10 times more than in 1989. I agree with you Honest Carpenter, we are undervalued. I’m 62 now and I still take on a few small jobs, but I tell young people to become an electrician, plumber or hvac guy.
What a rip off, offer $15.00 - $24.00/hr for experienced carpenters?! Then he will complain about he can't find any help, everyone is too lazy, Gawd!
I spent the last 10 years watching wages evaporate from 45$/hr(10 years ago) to now 25$/hr as I have worked towards becoming a carpenter, now there are no carpenters just labourers doing carpentry. Its a real problem when you actually want to be a carpenter
@@thomasalison6188 story of my life
FYI, $15 a hour in 1989 is $31.82 in todays money (2021). Worse, as you said, housing is way more, healthcare is way more. So is anyone wondering why there aren't any more carpenters? Because people are getting underpaid more often than not.
When balconies, etc. start caving in, a lot of people will ask for carpenters and will be given directions to purchase a hammer, nails and a hardhat with a "good luck 👍" instead.
a little correction i would like to make for you , the bricklayer does not have the hardest job , , , THE BRICKLAYERS HELPER DOES , , , that poor bastard is worked to death .
Absolutely the truth. I worked with a bricklayer 40 years ago he said he could lay 500 bricks a day . I told him that he could do that only if he had a real Ballsy laborer otherwise he would be lucky to lay 100.He then asked who I had labored for, i told him who I had worked for for 3 days till I got a groin pull (I was 16 at the time )he said you learned the hard truth about bricklaying.
Aren't those folks called Hod carriers? Either way, those guys were huge after 1 season.
Years ago they might have had it tough. Nowadays bricklayers have it much harder.
@@paulsmith5218 Why harder now?
You got to start somewhere.
As a lifer... I been saying for years -
"Anybody can be a carpenter, just ask anyone who isn't"
Reminds me of a carpenter who ran a crew of rough carpenters - very good, experienced. We paid above top dollar to get him (stole him away from another builder). After framing several large high-end custom homes for us, he told me he was hanging it up. I was really surprised since he said he had made the most money working for us than he'd ever made in his life. He was in his early 40s and truly a master of his trade. But he said the stress got to him and the money he made with us was his way out. Guess what he ended up doing? Buying a small franchise to install shades and blinds, which morons can do. I talked to him a few years later - said he missed working for us - he was making less money and dealing with retail nitwits all day was far more stressful. But he didn't plan to go back - said his body couldn't do it any more.
Carpentry/masonry/laboring is a young man's game and think it's why wages are lower - experienced folks find another trade/job out of necessity because their bodies wear out fast.
A morom could do? Framer, brick layers, roofers etc, all shit morons can do. There really isn't that much to carpentry.
As an older millennial, all of my classmates in highschool were pushed to do math and science and computer sciences. So, not being told about trade work probably hasnt helped the industry.
If there were more people in the trades they would be complaining about even lower wages. Why work twice as hard for half the pay?
Getting into programming before 2013 was a way better choice than the trades. It's now over saturated and all the big paying positions are for people sitting on that 8 years + experience
As a 27 year old carpenter with very high functioning autism that most people do not pick up on unless I spend significant amount of time with them I really lucked out when I was able to go to a high school trade program that taught carpentry. It wasn't however when I was actually in high school but when I got sent over to a specialist autism program that teaches autistic people how to be more self-reliant. I owe that program everything and I owe my high school absolutely nothing
I don’t know about other states around the country, but in my city they removed all technical programs from schools. Wood shop, auto mechanics, welding, everything. Some are available at an offsite location, but you have to apply for (a year in advance) and be approved for the program, so not many kids make it in. Both my son & daughter were very surprised they used to have these classes available, and wanted to take auto mechanics, but there was no room in the program. They instead had to take a bunch of BS classes (in my opinion) that gave them zero life skills. I took auto mechanics in high school along with wood shop. I do all of my own home repairs (some major) and I can still change the brakes on my car. Invaluable.
@@SilverDragonEyess i laugh at you push button boys know nothing tool geometry besides what a brochure says.. or diffearances in material..or machine reapair..or manual machine mill..lathe..surface grinder
Being a carpenter should really demand a higher pay rate, the amount of flexibility you have to have, and the wear and tear on the body, truly justifies a much, much higher income...
The carpenter made more cash then most men on a piret ship
GENERAL STRIKE NOW! Then form a union immediately after.
I'm learning carpentry in Iceland and they teach us every part of building a house. We don't have special trades for drywalling, roofing etc. If you are a carpenter in Iceland you do everything and get paid accordingly. which brings me to his point that money is the biggest motivator, new carpenters get paid 100 an hour minimum.
@@siggimikki5110 thanks Siggi for reminding us we are living in the third world! Sad thing is we are supposed to be the first world among the first worlds. But our democracy has been hijacked so a handful of dbags can buy more uber expensive sht they don't need.... Iceland 2022!
I asked a commercial building contractor I worked with if he knew of a finish carpenter for some work at my house. He said, "You'll never find him because I will find him before you do and I ain't found one for years."
Great piece! I sent it to my carpenter.😮 What you basically said was you didn't make enough money to warrant the sacrifice of your body. I had trouble finding my carpenter in the first place, and I hope he puts his numbers up as a result. He too loves the actual work.😊
Dude… this video is spot on, you’ve got a new subscriber now… I’m 38yrs old, got out of carpentry bc of the 08’ recession. Sold my soul to a local factory that’s been in business for over a 100yrs. I now do “handyman stuff” on the side and could damn near go full time and have less than 50-100 clients. When my 11yr old son helps me out I tell him “be an electrician”. Crazy accurate video, well done sir!!! Well done!!
I have been a carpenter my entire career. I am 28 and there's a lot of factors to the problem facing the industry. the older guys leading crews have a real issue that's hard to navigate. they need young guys but they want to pay you poorly because you are "less experienced" but the reality is we are in high demand. pay isn't just skill based. its also necessity based. if you want young carpenters you need to make the job desirable and profitable. most importantly you need to value them. the attitude in carpentry is that young men haven't "paid their dues". this short sighted attitude is why you have 70 year old men on there hands and knees. if you want young guys you need to treat them well. because its no longer the economy of working for one company your whole life. people my age are not afraid to jump jobs for more money or a better situation. the problem here is almost entirely the employers. I hope they can rethink there ways before it really hurts the entire country.
Its the employers issue because competition isn't always good for an industry. Once you start trying to bid for jobs and you get outbid by somebody who is willing to give up all his profits then you have to make decisions on where you take the profit from. First it will be the materials, then the tools, then its your employees. The entire construction industry, at least from what I've seen in the areas I've lived in America, is way past the materials and the tools and is deep in shorting the employee base. It only gets worse when you start looking at states that dont require licensing. Its ultra bad when you're either remodeling or you are the last part of the house when the owner starts to pinch pennies. I've moved on though now and I'll never look back.
@@anonnine9994 they're going to pay for it eventually. If they don't wise up to the fact that paying tradesmen poverty wages is a real life problem (especially since many jobs or trade schools won't touch a trainee below the age of 18 anymore), they're going to look up one day and realize there isn't anyone left to do it, then all those people living in big houses or paying bottom dollar on work needed in their office buildings are going to be confused as to why there's no one to call. I used to wonder why there were so many shoddy carpenters and independent tradesmen out there, until one day someone told me that if they stayed around long enough to do the job the way it needs to be done, they wouldn't be able to get enough work in to feed themselves because the clients don't want to pay them what they're worth, even though some of these skills are built over a decade or more rather than plowing through a 4-year degree... Changed my whole perspective on it.
@@my2cents49 oh I 100% agree with you. I told a client one time that me and my father were artists in the work that we do. They laughed and said yeah you all do amazing work for sure and then I said but what do all artists have in common? They starve. The prices that we were having to compete with were so low that it wasn't feasible to even try. Its become more and more of an issue in almost every field outside of major degrees and even those are adding on masters and doctorates to degrees that used to be associates and bachelors. Its a multitude of issues that have built up over time and we see where they are going. Look at China and its buildings that have collapsed on people because cutting corners is how you put up stuff fast.
I’ve been in concrete construction for almost 40 years, and what you describe I partially agree with. Do we need the “young guys”? Sure, us old guys can’t do what we use to. So the hopes are, they can take our place and be what we once were. Problem I see……the young guys can’t even keep up with the old guys, much less do what we did in our past. There just seems to be a lack of heart, grit, pride of working a hard days work. It’s too cold, it’s too hot, why do I have to work overtime? What? You want more money, but won’t work for time and a half? We pay well, $18 for labourers, to start. 28 for carpenters 34 for rod busters. And don’t walk up to me with a hammer and some nails in your pocket and say your a carpenter, most of these young guys don’t even know what a carpenter is. My experience is, as the pay goes up for most of the young guys, the less they show up. Seems they just want that certain amount of money a week and they’ll show up that many hours a week to get it, that’s all
@@bboobb1122334455 despite what you think the pay is average and not at all enticing or anything to hold over someone's head. When adjusted for inflation it's much less then you made when you were in your youth. I'm sorry if you were convinced it's normal to work more than 40 hours to make ends meet but it isn't. 40 hours should enable a person to start a family and buy a house. Like people did in your youth. The truth is you don't realize how much inflation has left wages in the past and you think "these wages are good enough you're just not motivated". That's not going to cut it and that sort of thinking serves only to help you sleep at night.
Im 61 and have been in the trades since age 20. I have had people ask so many times " you want how much ?" Yet they sit behind a computer and make three times the amount.
Human nature. I'm proud to say "yep...that much." ...now, after 3 decades of experience
They can go do it their selves then! 👍👍
You are absolutely right sir! What can you do, media tells the young kids that everybody can be a rap star and make millions.....
And think they got it so much worse than you. They wouldn’t last a week.
I just tell them "skilled labor isn't cheap, and cheap labor isn't skilled. Hire a cheap tradesmen, but remember, I charge double to fix someone else's mistakes".
I live in Ireland mostly now. I bought an old house and spent 3 years doing pretty much everything myself because there was a waiting list for most trades.
My brother-in-law went a different route. He purchased a house from a company in Sweden. He picked the house from the builders website. He was given the exact dimension of the base. The house arrived on a couple of large trucks as a flat pack with 4 assemblers.
The quality and assembly and precision was something I'd expect in the aerospace industry. The woodwork was carried out by CNC machines in a factory. There wasn't one carpenter involved. The house was watertight in 5 days. And completely finished in 3 weeks. Where I live automation is killing the trades not money!
There's only one way to go in America today, and that's to run your own small company. Forget low wages and long hours, but you've got to be good at what you do and you've got to be responsible and hard working.
I built and installed cabinets, did tile, light plumbing, light electrical. Basically just kitchens and bathrooms. I could do one big kitchen each week if the granite countertop guys were on the ball. I made $5000 per week consistently. That's a quarter million a year and I had one guy working for me everyday. I bought all my tools. No credit, no loans. I bought my truck and trailer for cash. I had more work than I could handle and contractors were always trying to bully me, to get me to rush and get to the next job so they could make 20-30% on my labor. I just quit taking their work. Never let another person tell you how much you should charge or how much you can make. The first mistake most people in the Trades make us selling themselves too cheap. The second mistake is not knowing how to source products and the third is not knowing how to schedule themselves.
I concur with your conclusions. You make the best money working for yourself on your terms. Never let others dictate your price on your skills and labor.
I've gotten to the point where the toll on my body determines a lot of factors. The harder it is on my body, the higher the price.
Another reason to add shop, and auto mechanics back to high school curriculum!
My husband is a shop teacher specializing in woodworking. The students love him and his classes are in demand. We live in rural SW Minnesota. He retires in two years and we wonder where his replacement is going to come from.
Highschool student from LA. Man I wish I had a shop class, it’s such a great learning experience for young people like myself to just get their hands dirty and create something.
Mechanics will be extinct in few years when we all start driving electric.
No we just need more Social Engineering Classes.....LOL!...You are spot on! Most kids coming out of High School don’t even know how to balance a checkbook, or where the money comes from to put into a checking account.....They can’t add, read or write....but they can sure tell you about the injustices of capitalism, and how to protest everything under the sun!
Hate to say it, but the Boomer and and X generations have made things too easy for the current generations to be “soft”. I’m in my 40’s and most people my age or younger can’t even swing a hammer or do basic home maintenance let alone anything requiring any carpentry or mechanical skills. Take pride in being able to be self-sufficient. Learn basic trade skills, even if only for your own use or help out in your community. You’ll feel more confident in yourself and be able to complete some pretty rewarding work you can say you did with your own hands.
Ethan, that was epic! I couldn't agree more. I'm a 60 year old self-employed carpenter who doesn't run a crew or advertise, and have far more work than I can do, and the backlog in my neck of the woods is long. And yet people still seem amazed when I want $40 per hour to show up with enough tools and materials to fill a tractor trailer, and decades of experience in all fields of construction. But they're starting to catch on. And I'm tired of giving it away. The body's still holding up, but who knows how long that will continue. Thanks for speaking up for us.
Thank you drfrank! You hit the nail right on the head. I didn’t even get into the WAREHOUSE of tools and materials we purchase and re-purchase just to operate. But I’m glad you’re still working well. Keep sticking to your guns-and keep those higher bids coming in!
I tell people even before they open their mouths, the van costs £15,000; ($20,000), the fuel to run it costs X; the tools in it are £4,000; the man has £40,000 worth of training, he has spec’d out your job & he is geared up for any job any customer may request, not just you, plus the materials don’t fall out of the sky, plus not every merchant sells everything. He has overheads.....That’s when I take a breath. I look at them; “so you were saying” Furthermore, I say this to people & it isn’t even my job I’m talking about. I got out of the trade over 30 years ago. But still in the industry in management.
Most homeowners are stupid and don't realize what a good deal they are getting!
$40 too low sir.
Supply and demand. You should be aiming for $50-$55 per hour. Maybe more depending on your market. If the customer doesn't want to pay it, they can just do it themselves.
My dad is whatever level that is above a master carpenter (wizard carpenter). As a result, my playground growing up was a construction site. When I grew up I traveled the country as his assistant/apprentice and I'm now capable of building you a house from the ground up. I traveled literally from one corner of the country to the complete opposite corner building multi family apartments and got screwed over by my employers more times than I can count. They would string us along until it came time to pay up and then would make up some bullshit to get out of paying us our money. Time and time and time again this happened until it became pretty much predictable. As a result of all my hard work became one of giant waste of time, and i basically got burned out and switched professions. When you do nearly $200,000.00 worth of work in 9 months and you're given $500 and a good luck you tend to lose all care for in the work you do so well.
You're absolutely right! I grew up in the 50s and attended a vocational high school early in the next decade. They taught everything in that school and gave the students 4 exploratory shops to study during the first year. I eventually decided upon the Machine Shop course.
What I'm driving at is that today, there are no trade schools in this country! Now, why is that? Who decided upon this species of stupidity?
One of the answers at least was the chronic shortsightedness and corporate greed that beguiled the thinking of CEOs fifty years ago, when they decided upon quick profits to be gained overseas by means of cheap labor, thereby selfishly depriving the young American worker of his right to study and learn a worthwhile trade, such as carpentry for instance, a wonderful trade, but worse yet, settling a dangerous trend for future American workers; a severe shortage of those in particular trades that are necessary for this country to function properly.
I could go on and on, I guess. Thank you.
You benefited from a lot of those “evil” big government programs that FDR helped bring in. Amazing what investing in the population does. Thanks to Ronald Reagan most of that shit is gone or a shell of its former self. I graduated high school in 2014 and I remember when we would watch a educational video they would roll in the old ass TV with the vhs player and watch a video from late 80s-early 90s along with text books from that era lmao. At the time I didn’t think much about it since that was normal but looking back on it it’s fuckin disgusting.
Telling a kid they are trade material and not college material is a mortal insult nowadays.
I’m 26 and have been working for a local custom builder for 2 years. There is no formal training for carpentry in my area like hvac and plumbing. The carpenters I work with have little patience and are very proud. There is little incentive for builders and carpenters to train a rookie they just want to finish the job as efficiently as possible and start the next one.
That's true...my uncle use to yell at us novices with we were learning..."You're costing me money" by being a bit slower to finish a job. Not a good leader or helpful in for a young rookie to stay in the field!
Fake it til you make it. That’s the training method. I’m a framer and I get new guys that stick around every once in a while. These jobs aren’t for everyone. Only the stubborn survive
@@merkinyall "Fake It" on a construction job? I wonder if you ever have been on a construction job (might work on a union featherbedding job).
@@tommak6516 oh boy. That’s a popular phrase in the industry. I’ve been building custom homes for over 25 years. Not union.
@@merkinyall The popular phrase I am familiar with on constructions sites is not 'Fake it' but 'F*ck it'.
It's amazing what 40 years of saying "go to college, you don't want to be flipping burgers when you're older do you?" Will do to a country
It’s criminal that millions upon millions of parents bought into those lies and pushed their own children into the hands of predatory colleges and their promotion of loan-shark lending practices through banks and Federal Institutions.
Nobody should need to mortgage their future in order to be a productive member and contribute to society.
We live in a country where women sell bottles of farts for 95,000+ per year while some of the most important jobs for the country require you to work 80+ hour weeks and you do not even make 80,000. This countries idea of what should be valued, rewarded and incentivized is messed up.
Yup. When I was growing up, the message was that a college degree was the only thing that could set you up for success. Now I've got a fancy degree and a corporate American career that's driving me nuts. I've thought about changing up and being a tradesman, but I don't know if the pay cut makes sense. Do I muddle along for the sake of a paycheck, or try to find something I can actually be passionate about and really enjoy doing? We might need to rethink our definition of success.
thats not the issue. The issue is high inflation, high taxes and low pay. 50 years ago the average assembly line worker could afford a new car every year and every 5 years a new house. Meanwhile today as a teamleader engineer making more than 100k a year you can barely afford a decent car after 5 years and a house never.
The "go to college or you will be flipping burgers" is a bit incorrect it should say "go to college and manage to get one of the degrees that get you one of the highest paying jobs or it wont make a difference how much you work cause you will have nothing anyway"
@@dergunter1237 That is a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself. The cause of that problem is that we are producing less value then we are using. This results in everything you described.
Big corporations are still producing value, but that is because they are sending productivity offshore and are hogging the value to themselves. They are still producing less overall value then before too. They relatively just have more value then the rest of us.
And why is that happening? Because we are relying on old archaic systems to maintain order from over 200 years ago. We just keep it functional via bandaid fixes but those are inefficient and have diminishing returns.
Just look at how outdated copyright is and look up how bad monopolies are right now. They get around laws via stealth companies that you do not even know exist. Like what company owns 90+% of porn? the media?
Fuck, Fox News and CNN are owned by the same person.
Like you cannot create the new McDonalds because the laws will prevent you from doing it. Software was the last bastion of hope for a decade or so, but now the laws are resulting in a few big companies owning everything.
You cannot be the next bill gates, google steals the credit for your inventions and ideas now.
All you can do is get ahead via entertainment and that is also becoming saturated.
Our system also undervalues productivity and overvalues pleasure. A onlyfans model is worth more then a irreplaceable software developer.
Since atleast the 1990s, we have been decelerating at a exponential rate. We just had a lot of previous built up momentum that kept pushing us forward. So we did not even start feeling it until the mid 2000s.
And the solution is to fix the system.
No, not socialism. Just an update to what we have to make it functional with technological advances in mind.
Here in Norway it doesn't seem to be much of an issue considering here you get paid, once with a larger sum of money for the entire project, and then you get hourly on top of that. The fact that carpentry is one of the most popular of the construction trades to choose in school also shows that it feels like a safe choice to younger people, which is important. The pay for someone who's a newly educated carpenter is generally about $43 069, or 460 000 norwegian kroner a year before tax.
I'm a tin knocker in Chicago. I've got knee problems too.Been in for 36 years.Our hall is empty.I took 2 weeks off because I could barely walk. Yet I'm getting calls daily from company's desprite for help
There is an other reason, when i was working construction i was only getting paid 12 dollars an hour plus getting yelled at constantly.
most people just don't want dehumanizing jobs.
when I was in the millwright union it was the same thing. apprentices are treating like garbage. one of the reasons I just walked in and quit one day.
Yeah, the rough tone killed me.
Y’all are just wusses you’re a apprentice just a glorified hand. Just suck it up do your job and get raises
@@Lurkingxx lmao people like you are a really big reason rhe trades can't find labor, it not about being a wuss it's about knowing you don't need to put up with being disrespected
@@jacobrael9872 just like an clueless FNG.... shows up knowing nothing, messing shit up and causing more work for the journeymen to repair, and can't follow simple directions if "the tone" isn't how mommy talks to him..... and you kids think you are a somehow entitled to the respect of Men.... quit your bitching and get something respectable accomplished and you'll actually earn some respect 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂🤣 just because your mommy thinks you're talented don't make you shit on a jobsite of experienced men
You know, everyone says there's a labor shortage, but try getting a job fresh out of trade school right now. No one's hiring welders unless you've got 5 years experience.
Apply anyway. Lie if you can
this world is nuts not trying to train people dumbass!
Carpentry isn't welding...
Shipyards will hire
Why would you hire someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing that’s why you become an apprentice smh ......
I also was a carpenter here in Raleigh and truth be told, our pay was also brought down by greedy competition. Other framers charging very little per square foot knowing very well smaller independent framers would never be able to keep up.
I was always impressed by those who build/fix their own things especially home improvements. Half my family are a bunch of diy folks and I feel I was done the greatest disservice growing up by not learning from them. Just had new floors in our house and the entire time I wished I knew how to do it ourselves and save so much money
As an old guy of 76 who raised five kids on a carpenter’s wages… you are right on. After pounding nails for twenty years I had an opportunity to sell houses instead of building them. Fifteen years later I was able to retire comfortably. I loved carpentry but was constantly broke and sometimes on food stamps.
Happy for you Randy !
Surprised a 76 y/o is on youtube...
@@wtfwtfomfg why tho? My grann is 83 and she whatsapp me, shares pics, is on facebook, and uses youtube, wouldn't put past her to comment in a video if she was interested.
What did you do to sell Houses?
It's not Skilled Labor's Fault, it's the fault of the greedy business owners. If skilled trades professionals were paid what they are truly worth as opposed to the owners who Think they are worth more, you wouldn't have a shortage of good labor. Besides, in a shorter time than you think, skilled labor/DIYers will be a thing of the past. Then you will be stuck with JUNK for a price that only the rich can afford. It has already started.
I'm the youngest carpenter I know and I'm 28. I've been working on my own for 4 years now on the finish carpentry side. the carpenters I have met weren't career carpenters, they were "I should have went to college but I didn't so here I am..." which I purposely went into carpentry as a career choice. I have too much work, and basically charge whatever I want. I realize that having a passion for the trade has allowed me to accelerate my learning process more so then someone just trying to get beer money.
I specialize in cabinetry, wainscoting, coffered ceilings, accent walls, all the artsy stuff. I also build custom tear drop campers and "posh" Outdoor furniture which does well where I live, it has afforded me to basically tell people to fuck off and make my own hours... I still work 6-7 days a week because I just enjoy building shit.
Same story here
If I could work with u I would
I’m 29 and finding impossible to get a carpentry job in California because, presumably, I lack relevant experience. I’ve worked as a career bartender for 6 years and want to learn a trade. How can I help? Where do I have to move? Where’s the demand?
@@joshuaharris243 same
@@DenHenson from what I searched up you have to either go to trade school, find. A apprenticeship, or I think join as a laborer
One friends husband was a carpenter who died from a fall, another friend got lung cancer from welding, and another is an electrician who needs knee replacements but doctors said hes too young at 34. Hard no from me. Much respect to those that do the work.
Man I had the luxury of working with a master carpenter but I only did for 6 months. I never had much chance to work with him since my role at our place was a assistant to hvac. 63 years old this man was and 64 now since that was last year. And man no one worked harder than him but man when he got to work. Pure art. Never got mad at how bad I did something and always showed me how easy mistakes were to fix and properly fix, not some half ass shit. He’s been a carpenter all his life. Possible one of the best. Made his whole kitchen and would correct work when he was building his home and hired framers. Danny you’re the best man
I was apprenticing as a Joiner/Cabinetmaker, the wages being payed for high level work was so depressing it chased me off. Now I shovel sawdust and get payed almost double, enough to pay off my loans from cabinetry school. The trades are so undervalued.
Not just building / furniture trades either. A lot of people raise their eyebrows at paying over £200 for a fully custom item / prop that takes 50-100 hours to make. I guess China brought people's expectations of price down. I suppose cheap mass manufactured furniture did the same.
That's exactly my path. I'm interested to make furniture.
@@skywardsoul1178 sounds like people don't know how to do the front end of the business also. It's one thing to have a skill or product but it has to reach the customers in order to make bank.
Everything is done online and with apps now...
and than people have the cheek to complain about quality...
I made more working in retail than I did building custom furniture for restaurants and billion dollar tech companies. People expect quality work but aren't willing to pay for it.
As a former building engineer, we used to sit in our monthly meetings and realize everyone in the room was close to retirement...no young people.
They may be not be as close to retirement as you think if retirement is defined as 'work until you die.'
What is happens, WHEN YOU EMBRACE reganomics, and destroys the unions, now everything usurped. Hahahahaha Le sigh
@@rogue-ish5713 Unions bad, Corporations good........sarc
No dude, corruption within unions, specifically trade unions, is a blight on the industry, and a BIG part of the problem. It's why every job site looks like the old boys club.
Can't get in unless unionized, can't get in the Union unless you're friends with someone already in. Maybe if you ruin your reputation and unionize your employer against their will they'll throw you a bone... Then when that job ends you're unhirable anywhere else. Or they'll take your Union dues for years and never provide a job.
Tl;dr. Unions are dirty, actual labor laws is the answer, not unionization.
@@TheMistyBlueLounge sounds like you’re either a guy that never went to his union meetings and then called to get a job from the hall when you got laid off. If they don’t know who you are they won’t put you to work first.
That being said , the trades in Chicago are and have been having signups for their apprenticeship programs.
And FYI. I came to Chicago in 1989, didn’t know anyone here. And I got into the Carpenters Union. It took me a year to get in.
Then I walked into a one day job and asked a Chief Engineer if he was looking for a carpenter in the Recession in 2008. And that’s how I got into the IUOE. Local 399
I’m not Irish either. And the Irish control both locals I have been a member of.
So your whole rant is false. I’m living proof
Something tells me in 5-10yrs when AI really starts to bite into office jobs, there'll be a big surge in interest in the trades as a career. Many trades are almost automation proof
Yes, our prices need to go up collectively! I have work booked for a year out and people are willing to wait that long.
Not just carpenters, ALL manual labor skill trades. Especially something as Technical as such.
yeah but in a year or less, you can hire those new wall climbers that just keep coming ...
@@Nikletheman My friend even even here in south Florida we have a shortage of low voltage techs that actually want to work. Even if u pay them what they ask for. Especially since the government currently pays them more to stay home than what most small businesses can pay them. Society frowns too much upon people who do manual labor and gives too much praise to brown nosing office workers.
getting into a job that can bankrupt you with medical debt isn't what most people would consider a good idea, and the more careful you are, the more likely you are going to get fired for going too slow.
Carpenters are only useful to people who can afford homes anyway. Is it really a big deal for a rare industry to have a rare workforce?
@@noirto2 Hence why he said not to charge per hour and to just charge for the project. That's also how I prefer to work as well, I hate per hour pay.
25 yo male here. Just recently went into carpentry to do all sorts of stuff, siding, framing, roofing, trim work, fine woodworking on the side. I found the biggest problem is training and trust. Speed is only so much if you don’t know what to do yet. Training programs are kind of sorely missing and carpenter unions seem like old boys clubs for younger folks. The older guys complain about the young ones but won’t teach, be patient or give visions of projects and then complain about slowness or bad work. I love building stuff. I like knowing I have made a shelter or an aesthetically pleasing object and doing the rough and tumble is fun. But some older carpenters seem to have no patience for the nuances of rough carpentry versus a fine woodworker and things like that. I want to keep doing it but the pay and just lack of making the labor less difficult in whatever way possible is detrimental to the trade, I.e moving 20 bundles of shingles by hand 100 yards instead of using a tool or cart or something to reduce fatigue and wear but it’s not “manly” to do those things
Yeah they expect you to know stuff without any training. I was a laborer and I would tell off my company all the time about how they are dumb and incompetent. I hope they enjoyed the 3 thousand in damages I caused because they were to cheap to train me.
I am enthusiastic about farming because it is a vital part of existence, just like carpentry, but even the holistic and spiritual people in it can be slave drivers. Then again, there is no money/budget in pure farming. There are tons of volunteer opportunities too, but I fear there will be no difference in the expectations of work. The main way to survive in farming is internships which give food and housing to some extent. There still is not much of a logical way to survive the industrial era of farming using hand techniques, in terms of profit. It feels like everything needs the Internet to supplement it. I want to change the culture around farming to lose the "hard work" reputation while not relying on industrial machines. But my family really makes it impossible. I may be a genius through training and capable of developing further, but I feel like my parents are my enemies while I also feel hopelessly dependent.
The funny thing about what you said about something not being “manly” happens all the time on a work site, but those old hypocrites will also tell you to work smarter not harder. I don’t miss trade work at all.
@@awookiefromendor This is an issue with the labor market in general these days. Everyone expects to get a fully trained, fully compliant worker with no relevant experience so they can pay them less. Its unrealistic. But training costs time and money, so they throw you to the wolves instead. Not willing to pay for experience, and not willing to pay to train the inexperienced.
It was the opposite for me, always had the old men telling me - "take care of yer back you only have one" my reply - "yeah whatever old man", yeah those words come back to haunt me now that I'm older. Problem with young people is - they think they know everything - and I'm saying this for any generation, however in tougher jobs you have shop talk, otherwise, you can learn what the old men know but your going to take some shit to get it, its called tough love, and I guess the days before you could sit around all day in air conditioning in your underwear playing video games or on the internet, that tough love went a long way. Learn the trade and start your own business, if you walk into a job and just drone out you go nowhere, learning how much materials cost and how to price a job is where the money is, and believe me the trade industry has a lot of people that know what they're doing but can't price a job.
Only took 4-5 years of just being a laborer (little bit of everything) until I needed shoulder surgery. Doc said it was the worst scarring tissue he ever seen. That is my realization that the money isn't worth it.
As a homeowner I will tell you carpenters are highly valued by people like me, and we will happily pay you more for good work. Don’t be afraid to ask for the rate you need.
YOU will pay the carpenter whatever he needs, the Carpenter will pay his worker whatever he wants.
I graduated trade school in '84 as a machinist. The year I graduated landscaping companies were paying more money to push a lawnmower than any machine shop job I could find. Not only was I expected to know my job, it was also expected that I walk in the door with thousands of dollars worth of my own precision tools. As each shop folded, I had to take a new job that paid less. I delt with that cr@p for a decade. Finally smartened up. Went back to school, got a business degree and sold all my tools.
Now I'm a buyer, sourcing machined parts from China. I make 4x the money I ever made as a machinist and ya, I get to waste several hours a day watching RUclips videos.
I do tour domestic shops occasionally and I laugh when the foreman tells me he can't find any young machinists!
Sales is where the money is at.
I'm looking to get into Machinist trades because I love metal work and CNC machining and want to be a CNC programmer but all I hear is horror stories like this. I'm joining the Air force to learn the trade but I'm worried that when I get out, there going to to offer me like...$30 an hour. I just can't see this type of pay for the amount of skill and ONJ training to be sustainable for anyone who wants to get into Machining especially with all the old timers retiriing
@@dantheman1998 you won't have any problem finding a job (unless the economy completely tanks) but I don't think you'll see any big money like the plumbers and electricians are making. What's worse is that a new machinist is expected to show up on day 1 with several thousands of dollars worth of precision measuring tools.
I was a highly skilled machinist 42 years. I would not recommend it to a young person.
I'm 36 and have been a millwright since school. I calibrate, refurbish and install machine tools now ( just started a year ago) I find it insane when I go into these UNION shops and these 55-65 y.o. guys are only making 30-40$ an hour.
Amen. You hit every nail on the head. We are for sure a dying breed. Like cowboys.
I have learned in the last few years to charge a premium price for my services which help people show more respect for what we know and what we do. I do not know any young carpenters. Im 61 and have more work than i know what to do with. Its wife open for those willing to put in their dues.
Fortunately i have gotten through with very few hits. No bad knees or back. Couple of stitches here and there but thats all. Getting close to hanging up the belt!!
Cheers
Good to hear, Daniel! Keep charging what you’re worth, and stay safe 🙂
Do you think it would be a good career change for someone in their late 40's?
@@askjdog welding/plumbing. Forget about carpentry as a job ( fine as a hobby ). You are competing against undocumented workers and prison work release programs.
61 this year over in the UK and it's the same story here. I keep turning work away as I can't do five days a week manual labour. I have two sons and neither of those wanted to do what I do
@@askjdog No, not really. It takes many many years to learn what it takes to be a good carpenter. Hands on practical knowledge and a lot of book reading. On the other hand, it is one of the most rewarding careers there is!
Picked up a summer job out of high school doing concrete and framing while I figured out what I wanted to do, turned out to be a 12 year long summer... never wanted to be in that line of work so I didn't think to get my ticket or anything. At the end I worked for a pipe fitter who had very little regard for safety and only for $23hr, worked unpredictable hours, never saw the kiddos before I left home and often home after they were sleeping. Now I'm a stay at home dad, the kids are old enough and my wife got a job only a few blocks away making much more than what I was, we all eat breakfast together and she's home before supper.
I never wanted to stay in the trades but I don't regret the skills I've picked up.
My surname means "Large Mallet", my family on Dad's side has been a line of carpenters, contractors, cabinet makers, and other tradesmen going back to before good record were kept. And Im actually quite good at woodworking myself. If I could make a decent living and the working conditions were decent I'd quite cheerfully be a carpenter. Problem is our society's values are so screwed up its literally self-destructing.
As someone else said "There is something very wrong with building houses all day and not being able to afford one yourself."
Not gonna lie, I thought you were gonna go with "lazy kids these days just don't wanna work", but you made a hard left and went with "pay workers more". 👍
Yeah, big respect. Young people do want to work, they just want to get paid enough to live and the people who do work now need to get paid more. Young or old, workers aren't the problem here.
Ya, good luck getting contracts when you have to pay every employee $40 an hour.
Nobody will give you jobs, because other people will just under bid you lol
@@jays903
The reason that they can undercut you is because immigration is not being controlled. Under normal circumstances, scarcity drives up value. But in this case, scarcity drives up third world immigration.
When the supplies of labor goes lower than the demands, the price/wage will naturally go up.
But it won't go up much since at some point construction would just hire cheap immigrant, so the prospect is pretty fked up.
@@tallswede80 if you can't be a better contractor than a guy that doesn't have any education or speaks English then I have no pity. I know guys that make a killing fixing fucked up jobs the previous guy made.
Remember the housing crisis of '08? I was a carpenter and kept taking cuts in hourly wage just to be able to work, and it took 10 years to get back to the wage I was making in '08, but Sub sandwiches were no longer 5 dollars.
I really didn't realize I hit serious job security by getting into the truss manufacturing business 4 years ago.
I'm turning 28 soon and because of this labor shortage plus my experience in the trade, I'm able to get a job anywhere in the southeast US.
In the three plants I've worked at, I had a lot of respect from all the much older folks that outnumber the youth. I keep freaking them out when I do my thing about as well as they do it. To think that I was pondering becoming an architect or an engineer...
If you read this far, this is my point: Not all opportunity and security takes an ivory form and there is no such thing as a job without problems. You don't have to dream big and do big to reach a point in your life where you can be satisfied. Just get into a trade. There's so many older folks in these trades who are extremely happy to show anyone the ropes. :)
This is the silver lining in getting into the trades right now. Lots of negative (but true) comments on this vid, but yours is one of the best I’ve seen so far, been reading for 10+ min now.
40% of the US construction workforce will retire in the next 8 years. That is…insane.
I’m a year 1 carpenter apprentice and the two jobs I’ve had so far (big jobs), all I’ve seen is a bunch of guys within 10 years of retirement and nowhere near enough young people. Within 10 years, there’s going to be tons of work and nowhere near enough people to do it. We’re already seeing it and it’s only going to get worse.
If we stick it out, we will come out on top. We will have the skills to do the work and demand the pay, union or not.
Remodel carpentry is hands down the most challenging of all the trades.
You have to have more tools, a more broad skill set, and the physical strength to achieve professional results.
I'm leaving the trades, been 10 years with out any investment in my future, 10 years and too many companies to count chasing money. Too many close calls, fraying of nerves, a welds literally on fire to finish it and make it look good and for what?
Depression and anxiety that has bled away into my day to day like a walking wounded, the terror if they'll keep me on or lay me off this winter, no home to call my own and living back home again, I've built so many homes I'll never live in. Plus a body that is fall apart and still places want unreasonable amounts of experience for the jobs
Part of the problem is pay, the other part the worst part is that no one ever invests in training us now. One place did, that was looking real nice in 2019 but got laid off as the youngest and cheapest guy there and I don't really blame em that time.
There is more money and benefits else where, where I'm not risking my life and limb everyday for shit pay.
Join a union hiring hall, they will train the shit out of you
@@jadedandbitter will they also pay?
@@Janlingchen you get paid when you get work, and the new guys are bottom of the list. Gotta pay your dues, is what it is. Training will still be available though. My advice is keep a non union gig job the union is okay with(i.e. doesnt compete with union work) and that you can drop on a dime to take union jobs when available while you're still an apprentice. Once you get the training and seniority you can start getting paid quite a bit in terms of both hourly pay and available work.
@@jadedandbitter 10 years sounds like he has paid his dues unless you mean he has to pay more dues in the union.
I'm in the same boat, got into welding years ago only to make a bit more than when I was cooking in kitchens, the jobs around me don't pay for shit, the fumes are killer and the companies don't wanna shell out for respirators and fit testing. Trades aren't what they used to be and guys like Mike Rowe need a fucking reality check when they say that making 6 figures is easily possible in any trade.
My dad's a carpenter, charges $90 an hour, and gets it. A large portion of his business is fixing what they guy before him did wrong.
Sometimes this is true, but most often what one "old timer" sees as being done wrong is due to not understanding or knowing the new fed codes.
When I was a mechanic then later a cable/satellite installer I had to fix other people's screw ups. I know how he feels.
@Michael Davidson tell me more, since I'm soon will heading to the welding field once I finish my college degree in few months.
Illegals aren't good carpenters
Geez I know all about that I spent years doing that correcting others mistakes. Someone that was unlicensed and unskilled.
How can this be? I was told by countless idiots online that the trades paid and there weren't any real downsides to them at all
Yep I agree, as well as all the above in the UK there is a constant influx of cheap foreign labour from abroad keeping a constant downward pressure on wages, resulting in a continual boom or bust cycle where you're constantly in demand one week & then nothing for weeks especially in winter, it's always been this way.
Ex framer here with 25 + years and it is mind boggling people would want to pay you $20/hr to cut up a $30,000 pile of lumber 3 times a week and carry it on your shoulder and nail it all together(1st floor, 2nd floor, roof) with ZERO margin for error.
“They ain’t no more young guys”. That says it all.
I tell clients “ If you don’t already have a carpenter then you have a problem.”
The are living in mom's basement and somehow think its okay.
I was an electrical apprentice for 4 1/2 years... I had my schooling done, my hours mostly finished and my dream what I thought vocation in sight. My first Foreman was amazing but he retired right when I got in, soon they started putting GPSs on all the trucks, saying it was in case they got stolen, and then writing everybody up who was not it at the correct location on the schedule even if it was on a bathroom break(and we were told not to use the customers bathroom) . I know one guy who got in trouble because a random citizen claimed he was speeding and he got written up without evidence. I got in an argument with one guy because he was saying that we don't have to color code wiring, with color tape or other and I was telling them that we have to as a courtesy to the next guy who doesn't know what he's doing like the homeowner, not to mention it is code to do so. Long story short that whole debacle turn into the Foreman's swearing at me in his office and yelling at me, the whole entire crew turned against me and said I was the one yelling at him even though no one was in the office. The very next day I called HR to investigate the matter, and then the following day after that I got a piece of paper against me for 26 write-ups in one day, and that started from zero write-ups after 4 years. One Day 26 write-ups and one stack of papers after I called them for help. When it came time for the union to represent me against the matter, the union lawyer called me a troublemaker, and my so-called representative said I was too emotional and I was ruining all the meetings we had with the hr. I had to call equal opportunity and I got mine in the end . The trade for hard-working Blue Collar labor is no longer friendly, they're running these places like major businesses and they don't care who comes in or who goes out as long as they don't lose their positions in the hierarchy. I quit my dream vocation Journey , I started my own business doing appliance repair and I make more money than I ever did doing anything else. I love troubleshooting that's all I want to do in life.
you are a true carpenter, us carpenters have to have an understanding of all the other trades and have foresight like an artist as to what a customer is asking to be built or repaired.
I am one of those that got out of construction in 2008, bankrupt & depressed. Went into facilities management where I use all the skills I learned along the way, don't have to deal with homeowners and make double the salary with benefits...I strongly agree that we need to bring the trades in parity standard of living wise & reintroduce them in shcool.
What does a facility manager do?
yes, what does a facility manager do?
@@tramenari manage facilities
A facility manager, manages a facility.
I’m 21 and I’m carpenter and I consider this regularly but part of me thinks that by the time I’ll be seasoned and knowledgeable I’ll be able to charge whatever I want because everyone else will be worn out and retired.
exactly! I'm just getting into carpentry with that mindset. Also, being able to build my own house at some point, in a small, remote plot of land.
@@Yarblocosifilitico my one advice Is make sure you know your worth. Don’t let anyone take advantage of you because they will if you let them. And don’t be afraid to change companies for a couple dollars more!!
@@VinegaryDeer1 how's the field going? I'm thinking about going into Carpentry and joining an apprenticeship and the union after I graduate high school this year.
@@VinegaryDeer1 Man, sounds like you had a helluva time. I attended a Carpentry program that my school offered, and I loved loved loved the math and hands-on work we did there. They also said during a tour of the building that they also raised the salaries for Carpenters in hopes to get more in the field. Doing that plus joining the union - I feel like that would be great for me.
@@geminicam1156 fuck yeah if you like math you like working with your hands you’re in the right place. Don’t ever settle for less company’s ride on the backs of those doing the work the right company will give credit where it’s due. If you’re smart and can learn how to read prints that can give a good upper hand. Also one tip I never did go through with it but suggested by my neighbor when I bought an online osha 40. TAKE CLASSES THE BIG WIGS ARE TAKING AND YOU’LL MEET SOME PEOPLE WORTH KNOWING IN THE INDUSTRY!!!! Like all the certs foreman and supervisors use. Always add things to your marketability. And better yet find a company that will pay for it
Here's my 2cents. My husband is 61 He was licenced in California in almost every field of Construction. They are Engineering, Building & Builder contractor, Plumbing ,hvac, electrical etc. He was constantly learning new ways in building ,products etc. So he semi-retired and we moved to the Southern states. Took a break for 6 months to do handyman work, now on the very first call he did to do a plumbing repair this is what happened. He went ( viral) in our area and that was 3 years ago, he is very easy to talk to and very neat, tidy and very professional and does not leave a mess at the end of the day. He is quite organized and so is his trailer very methodical. Works alone because no one seems to be conscientious about the work period. He calls himself a former carpenter and you are right the responsibilities are larger on a carpenter contractor. Great video
I think it makes perfect sense to charge more. While not exactly equal, i see most of the homebuilding/repair trades in a similar light. If I'm willing to pay $100/hr for a plumber or electrician, I'd certainly pay something similar for a carpenter. Heck if you're the only carpenter in town you pretty much get to charge whatever you want!
I am from New Zealand and I trained as a carpenter. During the earthquake that hit Christchurch, the shortage of carpenters became very apparent, so I went back into building. Moreover my son came with me and became an apprentice carpenter. He is now qualified and I have retired. The reasons for there being a shortage is simply because carpenters are not appreciated and undervalued.
Someone asked me to paint a room addition. That turned into painting, finishing the drywall, trimming the room out, mortising hinges and locksets and hanging doors, hanging handrails, insulating the crawlspace in 25 degree weather, tiling and grouting part of the floor, installing a toilet in the bathroom, building a wall mounted desk and some other assorted things. At 62 I'm about ready to call it a day.
You got that all done in a day? Wow
@@b1_ferg Okay - I see what you did there....
I like to randomly knock holes in the walls to look for hidden treasure, especially in older houses.
My dad was a carpenter his entire life. He took me put to job sites at 14 and taught me how to trim a house, install stairs, etc. My takeaway? Get a four year degree and work in an ait conditioned office. His body was destroyed and he only made as much money as an average office worker.