Brian Kenny makes the most sense when breaking down HOF. Exactly right how guys who are now no doubters were heavily scuntized during their ballot debuts
agreed , but when he was talking about el crime dawg and he mentioned how he never got more than 40 % of the vote during his first 10 years on the ballot and then everyone came to their senses with the veterans committee guys voting him in unanimously , the thing is that those are two drastically different demographics when you look at who is doing the voting those first 10 years ( BBWAA exclusively if i'm not mistaken ? ) vs the vet's committee ( a mix of former players , executives , managers , etc. ) edit : did not realize it was 15 years and not 10 on the ballot
I’d add Whittaker to your Old time list. Otherwise, seems about right. I don’t know enough about Tug McGraw off the top of my head to say yes or no but the rest I have no problem with them going in. Johan feels particularly egregious to me. LHP is a different category to me and he is a top 5, definitely top 10 LHP ever. I’d rather have him for a do or die game than all but Randy, Koufax, Carlson and Kershaw probably.
@@bryanzzz748 Definitely are a lot closer than people would think (with the notable volume differences based on era). Santana just feels like such a glaring admission to me. Plenty of these guys are too, but Santana has a legit case as the second best Latin pitcher of all time behind Pedro. Juan Marichal will always have his legacy as the best, but Pedro and Santana pitched in much more competitive environments at the same elite level. Those would be my top 2. And injuries after an insane prime are going to prevent him getting in? Just dumb
@@lebronjameslol3521He is not. Whitaker also by baseball reference’s version of WAR, has the highest total of that by a player who immediately went one and done (about 75 or so for his career).
It's almost as if the Baseball Writers Association of America shouldn't be allowed to judge whether ballplayers are deserving to get in the hall of fame
it really and truly ought to be an all star voting type of deal where part of it is the writers , part of it is people relevant to the game itself , and then a small ( maybe not microscopic but admittedly just a tiny percentage of the overall vote ) should go to we the people
We have gotten used to the media deciding who gets sports awards. They vote on league MVP, Cy Young, etc. Maybe it should be like the Heisman Trophy, where votes are cast by both the media and past Heisman winners. I think most people would be okay with HOF voting being done by a combination of media and current hall of famers.
As a life long Cubs fan I do not mind seeing Billy Williams name .....but Bill James called Williams the 100th greatest player ever and teammate Ron Santo the 87 th best ( which ranked him a bit better than Brooksie)Santo died at 70 years of age and was elected several months AFTER HE DIED . That is way more criminal. Bill James at one point called Santo THE MOST DESERVING PLAYER who was eligible and who was not in the Hall. He was the only position player ever to have the kind of juvenile diabetes that he had .
idk how rolen gets in the hall of fame but edmonds doesnt. love both but cmon. rolen only has 100 more hits but edmonds has almost 100 more hrs. both have 8 ggs but edmonds did it at center field. idk man really doesn't make sense to me. also berkman shouldve goten more notice, maybe not get in but at least a more serious look
Mize is the most egregious snub. He was handily the best slugger in the NL during his era and the writers ignored him because he lost three years to WWII. Also, what Kenny touched on, men like DiMaggio and Jimmie Foox, etc., were voted on by a few writers before the "five year post retirement waiting period," hence their unusual result history.
don't understand the hate kenny gets , segments like this are what makes him one of my favortie sports personalities of all time . do yourself a favor and type " brian kenny floyd mayweather jr interview " into the search bar up top , classic
I think BK on a philosophical viewpoint articulates other problem: arbitrality in voter's reasoning. Sometimes double standards in their reasoning. And also difference - McGriff's election is great exemplar - in perception & narrative of X's career between regular voters (BBWAA) and other election groups (like Veteran Commitee).
Adrian Joss of Cleveland, who has the second-lowest career ERA in MLB history, had to be voted in by the Veterans' Committee because he died on Opening Day of his tenth major league season. Even the Committee was not allowed to consider his candidacy until 1977.
Brian Kenny does a fantastic job breaking down things logically apparently until he talks about relievers. This video with turns into a Russian doll starts with great guys who didn’t get in first ballot, then talks about relievers starting with Hoyt Wilhelm being extremely deserving when he’s more of just a passable name, then Goose Gossage being obvious when it took him 9 tries again very good passable name but not no brainers like the names and clubs he started with. Then he just discredits himself off the rails talking about McGraw and Lyle both were clutch pitchers but didn’t pitch enough innings to compile the numbers for a legitimate HOF case: IP: GG: 1,809 HW: 2,254 SL: 1,390 TM: 1,514 Ks GG: 1,502 HW: 1,610 SL: 878 TM: 1,109 SVs GG: 310 HW: 228 SL: 238 TM: 180
If Andruw Jones gets in, I don't see why not Jim Edmonds n Scott Rolen. Well andruw was greater n did it all in 10 years basically but my point is if totals matter than lots of guys should be in. If andruw gets in cus what he did in 10 years than so should Donnie.
@@MrDeterioration Bill James called Evans THE MOST UNDERRATED player in the history of the game.I agree sort of ....but I think Grich is more deserving ..Grich was a MUCH BETTER hitter than Jeter based on OPS +( not even close) and a way,way,way,way,way,way,better defensive player ,...yet virtually no one voted for Grich for the hall and virtually EVERYONE voted for Jeter ,who based on defense runs saved was the worst defensive ss since they started keeping the stat .Bill James once called Grich the only unrecognized superstar in the game.Sickening...the sportswriters do not understand the game
Fun fact about those three: Each of them lasted on the ballot until the end of their eligibility. If you’ve done that, you’ve had at least a solid career for yourself, and they certainly did.
woah , woah , woah . forget about what brian kenny's talking about , that play at 1:36 ? that clip alone makes it a lot clearer to someone who was born in 1998 and has never even seen footage of the guy as to why a 5'6 shortstop with a .355 career slug and less than 40 homers made it into the hall of fame . i have honestly never seen anyone make that play , where they're receiving a throw from the catcher to the right of second and then diving back to the bag to catch a baserunner attempting to steal . he must have been one hell of a fielder . rest in peace yogi and phil , two legendary italian americans
Dale Murphy ...no way. Product of the launching pad...... road stats ...324 obp and .440 slugging. Not hall of fame material .May have been a decent defensive outfielder for a converted catcher ,but I would not want his defense in CF if it were my team. I realize one really really, really stupid comment means very little ....but one announcer at the time Murphy was playing said " Murphy is the best I ever saw......and I saw Mays".Talk ABOUT OVERRATED
Agree Edmonds and Lofton should be at least considered as the borderline HOF but don't make MLB HOF like Basketball HOF where pretty much anyone can get in with a few allstar seasons...
McGriff had 252 road homers and Todd Helton had 142....road slugging .469 Helton..510 McGriff.Yet the vastly overrated Helton will be in within next year simply BECAUSE OF WHERE HE PLAYED ...which is a ludicrous reason . I hate it when people get plus points for the CIRCUMSTANCES in which they played.Helton going in will make me PUKE
McCutchen isn't even close to hall of famer..there are like 25 outfielders ahead of him who aren't in the hall of fame who are more deserving. No impressive totals, a couple awards, no postseason....thats a joke...Murphy is marginal but he has more MVPs, more gold gloves... not sure what you're even comparing
Yogi was a great catcher, but he was NOT the best catcher of all time. Johnny Bench was. Brian Kenny shouldn't repeat that claim around baseball people or they'll think he's an idiot. Come to think of it, they probably already do...
@@SQLMCT Actually, pretty much no baseball people agree with BK. On this or on anything else. Most of us laugh at Kenny and his sabermetric horse bleep.
@@dape8993 He doesn't actually believe Yogi was the greatest ever. Though Yogi certainly was the greatest when he was first on the ballot. And sabermetrics don't have Yogi as the best. He is 6th by JAWS and 5th by WAA. Bench in number 1 by both metrics by a wide margin. As far as laughing at Sabermetrics, that's fine. I laugh at you and your Flat Earther views.
the fundamental flaw with leaving it solely to the writers association is that any and every player who had an aversion to speaking to the media is stepping into the box with two strikes , so to speak .
Brian Kenny makes the most sense when breaking down HOF. Exactly right how guys who are now no doubters were heavily scuntized during their ballot debuts
agreed , but when he was talking about el crime dawg and he mentioned how he never got more than 40 % of the vote during his first 10 years on the ballot and then everyone came to their senses with the veterans committee guys voting him in unanimously , the thing is that those are two drastically different demographics when you look at who is doing the voting those first 10 years ( BBWAA exclusively if i'm not mistaken ? ) vs the vet's committee ( a mix of former players , executives , managers , etc. )
edit : did not realize it was 15 years and not 10 on the ballot
I agree with all of this. Thanks for posting this.
BK, say it louder for the people in the back! Murph & Donnie Baseball are LONG overdue for the Hall.
I’d add Whittaker to your Old time list. Otherwise, seems about right. I don’t know enough about Tug McGraw off the top of my head to say yes or no but the rest I have no problem with them going in. Johan feels particularly egregious to me. LHP is a different category to me and he is a top 5, definitely top 10 LHP ever. I’d rather have him for a do or die game than all but Randy, Koufax, Carlson and Kershaw probably.
Fun little fact; Santana’s and Koufax’s careers are eerily similar in regards to peak and overall career
@@bryanzzz748 Definitely are a lot closer than people would think (with the notable volume differences based on era). Santana just feels like such a glaring admission to me. Plenty of these guys are too, but Santana has a legit case as the second best Latin pitcher of all time behind Pedro. Juan Marichal will always have his legacy as the best, but Pedro and Santana pitched in much more competitive environments at the same elite level. Those would be my top 2. And injuries after an insane prime are going to prevent him getting in? Just dumb
Except Im pretty sure Whittaker is actually already in
@@lebronjameslol3521He is not.
Whitaker also by baseball reference’s version of WAR, has the highest total of that by a player who immediately went one and done (about 75 or so for his career).
Jim Edmunds and Id give Jeff Kent more consideration but Edmunds not in is just as bad as Mcgriff.
It's almost as if the Baseball Writers Association of America shouldn't be allowed to judge whether ballplayers are deserving to get in the hall of fame
it really and truly ought to be an all star voting type of deal where part of it is the writers , part of it is people relevant to the game itself , and then a small ( maybe not microscopic but admittedly just a tiny percentage of the overall vote ) should go to we the people
We have gotten used to the media deciding who gets sports awards. They vote on league MVP, Cy Young, etc. Maybe it should be like the Heisman Trophy, where votes are cast by both the media and past Heisman winners. I think most people would be okay with HOF voting being done by a combination of media and current hall of famers.
As a life long Cubs fan I do not mind seeing Billy Williams name .....but Bill James called Williams the 100th greatest player ever and teammate Ron Santo the 87 th best ( which ranked him a bit better than Brooksie)Santo died at 70 years of age and was elected several months AFTER HE DIED . That is way more criminal. Bill James at one point called Santo THE MOST DESERVING PLAYER who was eligible and who was not in the Hall. He was the only position player ever to have the kind of juvenile diabetes that he had .
idk how rolen gets in the hall of fame but edmonds doesnt. love both but cmon. rolen only has 100 more hits but edmonds has almost 100 more hrs. both have 8 ggs but edmonds did it at center field. idk man really doesn't make sense to me. also berkman shouldve goten more notice, maybe not get in but at least a more serious look
Now that rolen is in they gotta put Andrew jones . Jones has much more home runs and more gold gloves
Mize is the most egregious snub. He was handily the best slugger in the NL during his era and the writers ignored him because he lost three years to WWII. Also, what Kenny touched on, men like DiMaggio and Jimmie Foox, etc., were voted on by a few writers before the "five year post retirement waiting period," hence their unusual result history.
don't understand the hate kenny gets , segments like this are what makes him one of my favortie sports personalities of all time . do yourself a favor and type " brian kenny floyd mayweather jr interview " into the search bar up top , classic
Floyd interview was crazy funny 😂
I think BK on a philosophical viewpoint articulates other problem: arbitrality in voter's reasoning. Sometimes double standards in their reasoning. And also difference - McGriff's election is great exemplar - in perception & narrative of X's career between regular voters (BBWAA) and other election groups (like Veteran Commitee).
Adrian Joss of Cleveland, who has the second-lowest career ERA in MLB history, had to be voted in by the Veterans' Committee because he died on Opening Day of his tenth major league season. Even the Committee was not allowed to consider his candidacy until 1977.
Brian Kenny does a fantastic job breaking down things logically apparently until he talks about relievers.
This video with turns into a Russian doll starts with great guys who didn’t get in first ballot, then talks about relievers starting with Hoyt Wilhelm being extremely deserving when he’s more of just a passable name, then Goose Gossage being obvious when it took him 9 tries again very good passable name but not no brainers like the names and clubs he started with. Then he just discredits himself off the rails talking about McGraw and Lyle both were clutch pitchers but didn’t pitch enough innings to compile the numbers for a legitimate HOF case:
IP:
GG: 1,809
HW: 2,254
SL: 1,390
TM: 1,514
Ks
GG: 1,502
HW: 1,610
SL: 878
TM: 1,109
SVs
GG: 310
HW: 228
SL: 238
TM: 180
If Andruw Jones gets in, I don't see why not Jim Edmonds n Scott Rolen.
Well andruw was greater n did it all in 10 years basically but my point is if totals matter than lots of guys should be in.
If andruw gets in cus what he did in 10 years than so should Donnie.
Darrell Evans
Very underrated.
@@MrDeterioration Bill James called Evans THE MOST UNDERRATED player in the history of the game.I agree sort of ....but I think Grich is more deserving ..Grich was a MUCH BETTER hitter than Jeter based on OPS +( not even close) and a way,way,way,way,way,way,better defensive player ,...yet virtually no one voted for Grich for the hall and virtually EVERYONE voted for Jeter ,who based on defense runs saved was the worst defensive ss since they started keeping the stat .Bill James once called Grich the only unrecognized superstar in the game.Sickening...the sportswriters do not understand the game
Feels like if the player had some name recognition and like 2 great years, Kenny wants them in.
A man of many traits a master of nothing 😭
Steve Garvey should be in the hall of fame and so should Maury Wills and maybe Don Newcombe
Crazy how maury wills doesn’t get in, he was clutch and an insane base runner
Fun fact about those three:
Each of them lasted on the ballot until the end of their eligibility. If you’ve done that, you’ve had at least a solid career for yourself, and they certainly did.
BK wants guys like Vernon Wells, Houston Street and Jarrod Saltalamacchia to be first ballot!
would have been funnier and more accurate if you said torii hunter rather than vernon wells
woah , woah , woah . forget about what brian kenny's talking about , that play at 1:36 ? that clip alone makes it a lot clearer to someone who was born in 1998 and has never even seen footage of the guy as to why a 5'6 shortstop with a .355 career slug and less than 40 homers made it into the hall of fame . i have honestly never seen anyone make that play , where they're receiving a throw from the catcher to the right of second and then diving back to the bag to catch a baserunner attempting to steal . he must have been one hell of a fielder . rest in peace yogi and phil , two legendary italian americans
No one knows any of these guys and Barry bonds still isn’t there
And bonds shouldn’t have cheated, not their fault you don’t know baseball well enough for the other names tho
Dale Murphy ...no way. Product of the launching pad...... road stats ...324 obp and .440 slugging. Not hall of fame material .May have been a decent defensive outfielder for a converted catcher ,but I would not want his defense in CF if it were my team.
I realize one really really, really stupid comment means very little ....but one announcer at the time Murphy was playing said " Murphy is the best I ever saw......and I saw Mays".Talk ABOUT OVERRATED
Agree Edmonds and Lofton should be at least considered as the borderline HOF but don't make MLB HOF like Basketball HOF where pretty much anyone can get in with a few allstar seasons...
We are a herd species except the whole world knew mcgriff should have been voted in but the writers
Never heard of him until now. Please stop
McGriff had 252 road homers and Todd Helton had 142....road slugging .469 Helton..510 McGriff.Yet the vastly overrated Helton will be in within next year simply BECAUSE OF WHERE HE PLAYED ...which is a ludicrous reason . I hate it when people get plus points for the CIRCUMSTANCES in which they played.Helton going in will make me PUKE
If Dale Murphy is a hall of famer then McCutchen should be when he retires.
McCutchen isn't even close to hall of famer..there are like 25 outfielders ahead of him who aren't in the hall of fame who are more deserving. No impressive totals, a couple awards, no postseason....thats a joke...Murphy is marginal but he has more MVPs, more gold gloves... not sure what you're even comparing
BK wants everyone in
Hall of good.pathetic
you might say he wants you to have it your way ! ( insert infinite pause for laughter that will never arrive )
Lee Smith
What about him? He's in the Hall of Fame.
Talking about guys who had to wait a long time
Barry Bonds
use me as dislike button
Yogi was a great catcher, but he was NOT the best catcher of all time. Johnny Bench was. Brian Kenny shouldn't repeat that claim around baseball people or they'll think he's an idiot. Come to think of it, they probably already do...
@@SQLMCT Actually, pretty much no baseball people agree with BK. On this or on anything else. Most of us laugh at Kenny and his sabermetric horse bleep.
@@dape8993 He doesn't actually believe Yogi was the greatest ever. Though Yogi certainly was the greatest when he was first on the ballot. And sabermetrics don't have Yogi as the best. He is 6th by JAWS and 5th by WAA. Bench in number 1 by both metrics by a wide margin. As far as laughing at Sabermetrics, that's fine. I laugh at you and your Flat Earther views.
the fundamental flaw with leaving it solely to the writers association is that any and every player who had an aversion to speaking to the media is stepping into the box with two strikes , so to speak .