I experienced the same air bubble problem when starting to glass the balsa core of the Trimaran I built. One side was awesome, and like you experience, the opposite side bubbled up underneath the layer of glass. What I learnt is to glass the core as the ambient temperature is dropping. This prevents air in the core expanding and blowing out of the balsa under the glass as it is curing. The opposite happens during a falling ambient temperature. The air in the balsa core will contract while the glass is curing, and allows the glass to lay flat on the core, until it is fully cured. So I used to start my glassing work in the afternoon as the temperature of the day was dropping. That solved the bubble issue for me. Bare Timber pores breathe in and out with temperature, until you seal it off both sides.
Again, “The Duracell Project” boat build on RUclips has tackled the same challenge of a cheap shed build over the boat & all Matt did was to build some simple arches out of plywood strips & 2x4 blocks and then threw a tarp over it to keep the sun off so he could do glass work. Take a look at building a temporary shed and see if that helps…
the even more reflective material dog and horse people use on their cars during various events in the summer should be even better. Alu foil as a plan B 😅
You two, and me, we are at opposite ends of some achiever/practical competence spectrum. I wouldn't even attempt what you are doing, and if I did, several things would have gone catastrophically wrong by now. AND you have so far still to go. I am full of admiration, and I love watching you just sail up to a problem, say "We're doing this, and we hope it works like that" - and it does. Please, keep right on doing what you are doing.
Some if us know full well this rebuild will be accomplished. It's an Architects view I also have. I come from an office where we all either sale or have boats. Uma will be rebuilt and will fly again. Wingset is watching. Long Beach CA
Regarding the heat, you might want to consider doing a 12-hour time shift, work at night and sleep during the day. I had to do that once for two weeks for the same reason and it was sort of fun. Two weeks was about the limit for me. Hope the 9K btu's make some difference. I really like what you guys are doing. It's kind of like a once in a lifetime type of project (i.e., not something you are likely to do again) that will teach you a lot and you will definitely know your boat, inside and out. Also, you are doing a pretty good job on your edits etc.
What I really enjoy about your channel is you both are good teachers, and also show when something doesn’t go according as planned, the reasons why and I am sure that you will find a solution and be back on track.
As mentioned below, core structures are best repaired or built with a falling air temp to avoid air in the core blowing through. Classic mistake when repairing cored windsurf boards is to start the repair in the morning rather than evening. Vacuum bagging is another method, more fiddley and time consuming, but provides excellent results without bubbles and ensures full resin impregnation of the cloth.
Hey guys, great vid as usual. Pick up a dozen pieces of the grey electrical 1" PVC and bend half hoops over your deck and cover with cheap blue tarps and secure with twine.. Prob about the cheapest shade unless you're close to some skinny trash-tree saplings. Keep on keeping on, you two are my heros. Also, count your blessings every night, that you have a woman like Kika as your wife- very few of us are so lucky!
Go get some of that aluminized bubble wrap insulation used for attics and tape to the outside of your top side to keep the IR under control. Also a white tarp would help as well. You may want to set up a laminating table and pre-wet the glass laminates. Roll them up then roll them out on the surface, much easier to keep the air pockets under control. See what Jonathan did on RAN sailing on his new boat build. You could also cool your resin in an ice chest.
Excellent idea. I used this just to live aboard over the winter with wool blankets covering the insulation. I stayed quite comfy with a little diesel heater
Definitely pre wet the laminates makes wonders especially if you need to apply them in ceiling or verticals. Wet table can be made out of half inch thick cardboard.
Mix less quantity of epoxy, because it is self reinforcement exothermical reaction, meaning less quantity slows the epoxy time to kick, pre wet a couple of cuts, use remaining resin to pry surface, repeat, you may need an extra pair of hands for this.
A shade from decathlon, aluminum bouble foil, I would use everything. And start on the afternoon go through the night. Try 2 layers each round, and if you get the timing right, after 6 hours two more. No need to sand in between! Plan roughly 12hours works shifts 😢
Shade will knock 25° from the temperature of your surfaces. Its brutal . I recored my fordeck in a heat wave . From inside. Most importantly remember eye protection. You two rock !
Did some fiber glassing in an enclosed space. Got high as a kite. You should really add some positive forced air ventilation to protect your brains. A soft covering on the ceiling will hide a multitude of sins, and cut down greatly on the echos and reverberations.
I worked in shipyards for the better part of 20 years, and I 100% agree. I definitely heard it in his voice as Im sure everyone did. its not so much as the getting stoned part as it is the displacement of oxygen. Uma!!! Take heed, positive air pressure constantly! and shade tarps!!! sorry you got air bubbles that sux. you'll get it.
@@theyard6958 Watching Dan struggle to find the right words did it for me, I don't think I've ever seen him struggle to find words before. Once is funny, a whole summer of it would be a tragedy.
You got air under the laminate because the balsa is not wetted out enough for that heat. The air in the balsa heats up (from the weather) expands and pushes out on the almost cured glass. what you are seeing is dry bond. You either got to get the temp a lot lower than you have or vac infuse. Best to get about 20 to 30 thousand BTU of cooling in there. Temp got to stay down around 20C for about 6 to 8 hours after catalyzing
In regards to your air bubbles, drill them out and spread in thickened resin. You can take some of your chop strand and shredded up and mix in with your thicken resin. The drill will make a rough surface for the resin to cling to and if you added in the fibers, they’ll give you all the strength you need. Just drill till you get rid of the air pocket and don’t drill all the way through otherwise you’re gonna have to grind back and glass over from both inside and out again, well, assuming it’s a large hole it’s a small hole just fill it with the resin.
You need to move the air conditioner inside uma and stick the exhaust vent out the mast hole. Air conditioners arnt designed to constantly chill outside air and move them indoors, they are meant to recirculate indoor air.
To salvage the work done, you may consider drill the air bubles slightly in & injectig resin into each one to force air out and refill the void. It may save you from additional work. Its worth a try .
I've been watching you guys for a while now and with your rebuilding efforts / progress, you have convinced me that I would be better off purchasing an old used sofa.
You guys are an inspiration! I just went through a similar (but not as extensive) repair on my Cal 40, which is about the same vintage as your boat. Cal 40s NEVER had a headliner and I would encourage you guys to delete yours. We use round headed barrel nuts (aka "blind nuts" or "sex nuts") for deck hardware where the bolt comes from the top and countersunk flat head screws for hardware that attaches from underneath. Pettit makes a mildew resistant, water based interior paint called "EZ Cabin Coat" that is super easy to use and do touch-up. (I would also argue that hardware store bathroom paint is just as good for 1/4 the price.) Somebody in the comments will say no headliner = condensation and mildew, but we have never had that problem in the 20 years we've owned the boat.
@Dan... Put silver reflective tarp/cloth over the coach-roof, to deflect some of the sunshine Better yet... put two layers of camo-netting over in the form of a full boat length cockpit tent. That would handle the wind better than a tarp, and be VERY effective and still allow the AC to work (old African/Army trick)
Its surprising how much heat the curing glasswork produces all by itself. Pay attention to the temperature ramp direction and speed. Gotta make sure that core is absolutly resin-saturated before glassing over. Exploit the ambient temp fall and rise. Slow-as-possible resin outgasses better. Lots of considerations. My money is on overhead ribs being necesssry. Every time glass flexes, internal fibers break.
Hi Dan and Kika! I'm loving the boat rebuild. Thanks for letting us sit on your shoulders and watch while you two do all the heavy lifting. Question on the AC. It appears that the unit draws outside air to cool and then you duct that into the boat. Is there any way you could rig up another duct to draw air from inside the boat to pass through the AC. That way the AC would be starting with cooler air and get a better overall temperature drop. Another option (when you're not grinding or sanding) would be to place the AC inside the boat and duct the hot air from the AC to the outside. Hey, this armchair boat building is fun. I'll have to try it more often;-)
Not sure about vinylester but with polyester you can use less catalyst to compensate for the heat. I have built boats and trailers for a few years and we used more catalyst when temperature was around 5-10c and a lot less in 25-35c.
Have you considered building a tarp roof to keep the direct sunlight off Uma. Should help keep the temperature down a bit more. I know it's a pain in the butt, and will add extra cost. But it might be your only option to get a better final result in the glass work. Cheers from Winnipeg.
I admire your incredible stamina and perseverance! I am really looking forward to seeing the actual and final interior design. I always loved what you did with Uma's galley. I will miss the Hefty Susan. I always thought that was a brilliant galley design. I know you are architects - did you study naval architecture in school? This project seems more of an engineering and architectural one because of all the structure modifications. Do you have an end date in sight yet?
I’m pretty sure a big part of the problem is you’re putting the stitched biaxial dry and not prewetting it, after all it’s basically two layers of glass. With the resin kicking quicker due to the heat, pouring and rolling would saturate a lot faster allowing you to work the bubbles out quicker. I’m sure you’ve already got this figured out and I’ll see in the next video. Cheers!
Just going to get hot and hotter! Good luck with your project, just keep in mind that you both are not just building a new boat interior but your producing rocking chair memories that both of you will always have between to two of you, So enjoy make it as fun as it can be or get 😂 Probably way to late for a tip but maybe next time your laying up so much glass at one time take some resin back to the motel with you and store it in the air conditioned room all night that way it’s cooler. Maybe take you a ice chest and put the resin inside so it’s not so hot while mixing it. I do something similar in the winter when I have to paint in the cold. Instead of leaving the paint out in a cold shop I’ll bring it inside and keep it warm. Just a thought
You may have already considered it, but if not here is an idea. You could spray cork all over. It would be leave a nice and modern finish. It won't do much of an insulation, but because cork as a very low thermal capacity you will have some benefit. The cork will be neither cold nor hot. The air will condensate less and it will eventually stop raining in the boat.
Hi guys, good to see you put on a lot of structural material into Uma. The biggest secret is worry about what other people think or do it is your yacht. I always remember all those places you went to with all that ice around you and I’m so happy and that you wouldputting so much time and effort into that rebuild/refit. Keep up the good work guys love and appreciate you both from Australia. Hopefully one day you’ll come down here and visit us from the Thunder down under.
By making the "window - areas" stiffer I expect a transition from a "S - flexing curve" to a "Z - flexing curve" with smaller flexing areas wich will be stressed more and could make your Boat less durable. I think that the thin walls are intended there to "decouple" the deck from the flexing hull and because the area isn't flat from the front to the back it is pretty stable in the other directions.
Thank you both for the structural, fiber, filling, faring and coring video knowledge. I agree with the early comment as I found night shift work the much better option for glass work. I really learn from this video the difference between epoxy and vinyl ester and micro aggregate filler. Jim Rodgers
With several 2"x4"s and a bar like a piece of pipe between them also take some 2"x4"s and build a stand on each end. Then put your rolls of fiberglass on the pipe/bar. You can build the bar holder as high as you want the fiberglass, and if you have several rolls you can then build it with several bars across. If you want to get super fancy you can add castors that can hold the weight of all rolls and the stand & pipe. If I were you since you don't have a workshop table then build it so a full roll is just above the ground a few inches. Tips from a fashion designer who works with rolls of fabric all the time.
A/C units are designed to remove heat, not inject cold. Your Delta T from the unit being outside is too high, need the unit inside the boat ducting hot air out the mast hole.
if you have a mast hole, put a good extractor fan on it. The fan you have is great it would just need to be sealed around the mast hole. It will make a big difference in working comfort. Unless you are not allowed, where you are. Air conditionning will not do much for air exchange, whatever air it will push in, will dump the fibre dust all over the cockpit, where you do some of your work set up, I am sure. Extraction is always better than blowing air in.
463L pallets are air transportation pallets. They are built of a balsa wood core and surrounded by a thin aluminum skin. There are 22 tie-down rings surrounding the edge, each rated at 7,500 pounds (3,400 kg). Empty, each pallet weighs 290 pounds. It can hold up to 10,000 lb (4,500 kg) of cargo (not exceeding 250 lb per square inch) at 8 g. Even though they were designed over 60 years ago, they're incredible! They're also sealed. Periodic inspection and testing reveals whether they've developed a leak. If they have, they're reconditioned, re-sealed and re-testing. Failing the stiffness test, they're tossed.
I'm sure you've found this. AC needs hydrodynamics. Fresh and recycled air. A bit of shelter for your AC. An outlet for hot air that is regulated by a crack in the campanion way. A lot to ask of a small unit with the added heat generated by the proccess of fiber glassing. Your're dream could have sold as the original UMA and moved on. You both chose to rebuild for the next adventure. Inspiration met with humility. From begining to end, you are both amazing, a tip of the hat.
In summer we use do a q cell mix. On to the foam before glassing to help reduce air bubbles and to seal foam might work not sure just a ideal keep up the good work 👍
That type of AC needs to be inside the conditioned space with the hot exhaust going out. As it is, besides the whole unit being baked in the sun, it is trying to constantly cool hot outside air rather than recirculating conditioned air. Not sure how long it would survive with all the dust and whatnot inside though. Any air conditioned space also needs insulation to help keep up, but I would think you’re already going to do that since you had to below the waterline before for condensation control. If you get another AC, look into dual hose units. The one you have looks like a single hose AC, which creates a negative pressure inside due to constantly expelling the hot air. Dual hose doesn’t have that problem but you do then need two sealed holes for the ducts.
Water wouldn’t condense on the hose if it was the exhaust like he showed. Plus they would probably feel hot air every time they walked under the mast. I’m guessing this unit can have a hose installed on both the intake or exhaust depending on the application. Would be funny if it was heating it up though.
Yes, I thought the same. Dan, put the AC inside with exhaust pipe on the mast hole. Not easy, maybe some clamps on the bulkhead holding a piece of plywood. The exhaust airflow will help, the recirculation will do it's job
@@ryanp0342 if you pause on a close up of the AC you can see that Dan appears to have taped the duct to the cold side of the unit. I wasn’t saying that he was pumping hot exhaust in to the boat, but it isn’t in a very efficient configuration.
I wonder if it is air bubbles you see or steam: you cool the boat down, get condensation on the wood, you glass over it and then when it heats up the water evaporates before the glue has a chance to stick
As it is fairly dark inside UMA you would not lose much by glassing at night using a few lights, Start as the sun drops and the falling temp will actually help you.
Reduce the amount of catalyst/hardner the rate of thickening can be managed that way. Or… run a hose over the cabin top as you work … or recirculate your cool air thru the ac… maybe all three
@@SailingUma we stopped using poly or acrylic resin for prosthetic limbs in the tropics, because it will harden in the drum if it's not in an AC environment. If you use less than the 1%, you have to be really careful with mixing it, there is a risk that theres going to be bits of the resin that doesnt get any and hardening takes days... but I still love the smell of resin and the fun of mixing talc to make filler paste ..
Great job and videos! I am really happy that your programm has siwtched back to full on DIY with technical commentary. Just a Quick question: Have you considered adding a staysail fitting tack point now that your deck is accesible for lamination??
I assume there is some front to back ventilation planned eventually? Boats go in the water and get moist inside whatever you try to prevent, moisture in an enclosed space means mould
I'm also busy donig some glass and epoxy work on my model boat. Things started a bit rough due to temperatures dropping right after I mixed up the expoxy, but sorted itself mostly when thesun came out and I could use its rays to heat the work. By then I removed a few clamps thinking it would be cured and it wasn't;.... Finally the Versamid125 came in and I could simply mix it with the epoxy to creat a very strong medium viscosity glue... I am basically using it like filleting but also pried open the bits that weren't good seals and smeared lots of this glue mix in there... Doing the repairs in small bits so I can use gravity to pool the epoxy where I want the most of the mass to end up. I got some polyester with wax for the outside skin as it won't need laminating. hope that isn;t going to come back to bite me. I'm a bit of a noob... at least with practice... I can't seem to find any silica or other hard filler to add. But is working at this scale.
How about getting a cooler full of ice and chilling the resin/catalyst mixture to slow down the kick and give you time to work the mix into the glass? Just a thought...
When you have completed all your work on "Uma", she will be as strong as steel and your next set of sailing adventures will be far less worrying for you. Can't wait to see her in the ocean again.
The air space between the hull and the drop ceiling provides *some* insulating properties. If you don't have any insulation properties on the ceiling, you won't be able to cool/heat the boat.
Did you want the hardness of all that filler in the ceiling indents? A much lighter solution is to cover the indent with tape and spray foam in the void. Then a few layers of chopped strand over the foam seals it in and turns your indent into a box-beam. Light and strong. I used that in several places on my catamaran.
Are you considering putting balsa core or foam on the ceiling? I think if you put balsa core or foam it would provide a thermal break and prevent a dew point and moisture forming on your ceiling. The same way your turtle hatch and ac pipe had condensation from the moist outside air from the cooler air on the interior- if it is warm inside and cold outside you could have moisture form on your ceiling. Been watching since the start and I am enjoying the boat building again!
The AC unit needs to go inside the boat and you need to duck the heat from the condenser out of the boat. That way you are using cooler return air because an air conditioner can only cool so many degrees difference. So the problem right now is not the air conditioner. It’s the fact that you’re starting with 90° air and you’re trying to cool it more than the average 18° difference
Balsa core has air inside! After you have glassed it over, the temperature raises and the air expands, creating the air bubbles. You have to do the glassing while temperature is failing. So late afternoon till midnight (or morning). You are not the first ones with this problem, coring and glassing in non climate controlled environments. 😢😎
Tin foil or emergency foil blankets to reflect the heat? You can spray the back with soapy water (maybe mix in something tacky) to get them to stick to the hull. The aircon isn’t ideal as usually it would take the air from the cooled space instead of taking in hot air from outside but you’ve had to do that because of the dust, maybe hire an industrial 18,000btu+ unit?
Pretty sure you should consider at least a couple windows (port lights) eventually. (guessing where you're headed - would love to hear more about your overall concept)
Yes of course. We’re putting port lites and hatches back in after we finish the core. We mentioned that a few times in previous videos. We’re not going for a pitch black cave vibe. We LOVE light and ventilation.
@@SailingUma LOL, thought maybe you were building a bomb shelter. When you did your last major remodel, I think I remember you showing some sketchup renditions of what you were thinking. Since you are both trained as architects I really loved how you worked through that process. Thanks for the reply too (I followed you since before you were famous)
Unfortunately Unless we place Uma inside (which costs a LOT more and limits us to what we can do ourselves) there is no shaded area at the yard. But we found a solution ;) stay tuned in the next episode
Have you considered stringing up some sails or gazebo's over the top of the boat. Since it's coming into summer, it might make it easier to work with a cover from the sun. The height of the boat would be an issues, as would wind, but if you could find a way to at least cover part of the cabin area you are working on, it might make things easier. I saw one couple build a car port over the top of the boat whilst they renovated it. Just a suggestion. Really interesting seeing you work on it and explain why you are using what you're using. Thanks for taking the time to convey the difficulties.
When glassing timber you get ( out gassing) when you get rapid temperature rising . You need the timber to reach its maximum temperature and decreasing in temperature.
Why did you not put the csm side of the 1708 down against the balsa for better bond? With vinyl/poly resin you cannot put a new layer of glass on previous if it has started to cure. Put 2 layers at same time but that's hard on a vertical surface. pre-Hot coating the balsa can minimize any gasing from it. Not putting the csm side on balsa is a problem too it . Cheers warren
A vacuum pump and some bagging to suck the fabric tight against the walls and remove the air bubbles, will help. Also perhaps if you use epoxy with extra slow hardener, it'll work better?
A light colored tarp covering, but not touching, the boat will do wonders for keeping it cool inside. I'd try that before a bigger AC unit. Solar irradiance is 200-400 BTU per hour, per square foot. If your AC is 9000 BTU/hr, then it doesn't take much area in direct sun to overwhelm it.
Two thoughts: a layer of insulating foil (as used in domestic ceilings under a tile roof) and then black shade cloth draped over the deck would keep heat out and cool in. Right now your A/C doesn’t have a fight8ng chance.
One of the challenges with wood is that air in the wood is released as the temperature goes up. Very important to keep a stable temperature when glassing which creates an essentially impermeable cover over the wood. If the wood temperature increases there is nowhere for the air to go and so it lifts the glass creating the "bubbles". Bummer.
I would plan to prep the ceiling for paint but also add some hollow fiberglass beams to strengthen the deck. Not only would the beams make the deck rock solid but they will provide space to run wiring and other systems for overhead lights and anything that fits to the topside of the deck. Also you are glassing in a dark cave, why do you need to do it during the heat of the day. Just glass at night on some graveyard shifts. If that cant work you should put up a sunshade tarp over the boat. That should help with the cooling no matter how big a AC you get.
The way I see it is this is a room AC unit?, and you are putting hot, exit air into the boat. If it is designed to be in a room The units pulls room air in or in this case outside air, cools it and room air is then pushed by the evaporator, and back in to the room. It looks like you have the hot air exhaust going down the mast hole? ? Is it cold air you are receiving inside the boat? Love you two!
I'm slightly confused regarding the AC-setup. Usually room-acs like that one blow the conditioned air out the front of the actual unit, and the tube is for exhausting the hot air ourside. The setup almost looks like you are cooling the Italian spring, and putting the extra heat inside Uma.
I completely agree with the tent over the boat. When my friend had a yard in Miami, Florida he always had a tent over the boat he was building. He built both 52 foot an 66 foot sailboats.
Can ya pre-wet the pieces of glass outside n then bring em in? Or drape the boat on tarps to shade it from the sun? The heat that’ll be under the tarps will likely blow off before maybe heating up the boat so much as the direct sunlight? Allowing your ac to be more sufficient?
I heard you say this is going to be a looong project. What about putting the smallest ductless mini split air-conditioner in there. In the US you can get an off brand Mr. Cool unit of 9-12000 btus that will run on 120v ac for around $500. Maybe you can find the equivalent in Europe. You'd have to temporarily mount the head unit on your bulkhead, but the you can run the refrigerant lines out the mast hole. I've seen people use these DIY mini splits in temporary installs, and even a small unit can cool a tiny house in the hottest Texas summer.
What’s the saying: 1st world problems? 😂 Nice work! and inspiring for me as I am in the middle of a refit myself on my W32. Just demoed the fore-peak 😅
Hot glue foam insulation on the out side of the cabin top one side at a time if need be You need to keep the sun off it as well just cooling down the inside is causing more problems
they've already made their bed with balsa despite serval viewer objections to this pointing out all the flaws with balsa as a core material. typical architects ignoring engineers 😜
Like we said in that video, our deck is already blast. It’s 50yrs old and holding up just fine. You just have to seal bolt holes properly and fix any damage as soon as possible.
I experienced the same air bubble problem when starting to glass the balsa core of the Trimaran I built. One side was awesome, and like you experience, the opposite side bubbled up underneath the layer of glass. What I learnt is to glass the core as the ambient temperature is dropping. This prevents air in the core expanding and blowing out of the balsa under the glass as it is curing. The opposite happens during a falling ambient temperature. The air in the balsa core will contract while the glass is curing, and allows the glass to lay flat on the core, until it is fully cured. So I used to start my glassing work in the afternoon as the temperature of the day was dropping. That solved the bubble issue for me. Bare Timber pores breathe in and out with temperature, until you seal it off both sides.
Great comment. That first coat was put on with the balsa core at its coolest have been A/C ed all night.
Any chance of injecting thin resin into the larger separation bubbles.
Yeah. Science. Great comment. I hadn't thought about that part of it.
Exactly! Falling temp is the key. Also a seal coat with a light sand before glassing will help close the pores
great experience and support .
Set up some lights and just pull a couple night shifts to do the glass work.
If the boatyard allows people in after the closing.
It doesn’t. Also, we have weeks of glass work to do.
@@SailingUma yeah tighten up. 😂😂😂😂 not good enough, not good enough! 😂😂😂😂 Welcome to my world! 😊😊
@@SailingUma That's too bad. :(
@@SailingUma Maybe set up a tarp canopy to keep the sun from adding extra heat to Uma.
Maybe make a shelter over UMA? Just to keep the Sun from hitting her direct.
She def needs a tarp over the top to block the sun...
I came into chat to say the same thing. Put up a white tent to shade the boat guys.
Again, “The Duracell Project” boat build on RUclips has tackled the same challenge of a cheap shed build over the boat & all Matt did was to build some simple arches out of plywood strips & 2x4 blocks and then threw a tarp over it to keep the sun off so he could do glass work.
Take a look at building a temporary shed and see if that helps…
Canadians in Canada do that to keep the snow off. But it seems like the obvious solution for keeping the sun off.
the even more reflective material dog and horse people use on their cars during various events in the summer should be even better. Alu foil as a plan B 😅
You two, and me, we are at opposite ends of some achiever/practical competence spectrum. I wouldn't even attempt what you are doing, and if I did, several things would have gone catastrophically wrong by now. AND you have so far still to go. I am full of admiration, and I love watching you just sail up to a problem, say "We're doing this, and we hope it works like that" - and it does. Please, keep right on doing what you are doing.
Some if us know full well this rebuild will be accomplished. It's an Architects view I also have. I come from an office where we all either sale or have boats. Uma will be rebuilt and will fly again. Wingset is watching. Long Beach CA
Regarding the heat, you might want to consider doing a 12-hour time shift, work at night and sleep during the day. I had to do that once for two weeks for the same reason and it was sort of fun. Two weeks was about the limit for me. Hope the 9K btu's make some difference. I really like what you guys are doing. It's kind of like a once in a lifetime type of project (i.e., not something you are likely to do again) that will teach you a lot and you will definitely know your boat, inside and out. Also, you are doing a pretty good job on your edits etc.
What I really enjoy about your channel is you both are good teachers, and also show when something doesn’t go according as planned, the reasons why and I am sure that you will find a solution and be back on track.
As mentioned below, core structures are best repaired or built with a falling air temp to avoid air in the core blowing through. Classic mistake when repairing cored windsurf boards is to start the repair in the morning rather than evening. Vacuum bagging is another method, more fiddley and time consuming, but provides excellent results without bubbles and ensures full resin impregnation of the cloth.
Love your ability to formulate PPE and tool belts , the thing that is special about this channel is you two are more interesting then the boat
Hey guys, great vid as usual. Pick up a dozen pieces of the grey electrical 1" PVC and bend half hoops over your deck and cover with cheap blue tarps and secure with twine.. Prob about the cheapest shade unless you're close to some skinny trash-tree saplings. Keep on keeping on, you two are my heros. Also, count your blessings every night, that you have a woman like Kika as your wife- very few of us are so lucky!
Cheap blue tarpes don't hold up in the sun. I think the thicker white tarpes are much better.
Go get some of that aluminized bubble wrap insulation used for attics and tape to the outside of your top side to keep the IR under control. Also a white tarp would help as well. You may want to set up a laminating table and pre-wet the glass laminates. Roll them up then roll them out on the surface, much easier to keep the air pockets under control. See what Jonathan did on RAN sailing on his new boat build. You could also cool your resin in an ice chest.
Excellent idea. I used this just to live aboard over the winter with wool blankets covering the insulation. I stayed quite comfy with a little diesel heater
Definitely pre wet the laminates makes wonders especially if you need to apply them in ceiling or verticals. Wet table can be made out of half inch thick cardboard.
Mix less quantity of epoxy, because it is self reinforcement exothermical reaction, meaning less quantity slows the epoxy time to kick, pre wet a couple of cuts, use remaining resin to pry surface, repeat, you may need an extra pair of hands for this.
A shade from decathlon, aluminum bouble foil, I would use everything. And start on the afternoon go through the night. Try 2 layers each round, and if you get the timing right, after 6 hours two more. No need to sand in between! Plan roughly 12hours works shifts 😢
One person mixing, pre wetting cuts, two persons, applying
I feel smarter every time I watch your build videos. Thanks for posting these!!!
Shade will knock 25° from the temperature of your surfaces. Its brutal . I recored my fordeck in a heat wave . From inside. Most importantly remember eye protection. You two rock !
Did some fiber glassing in an enclosed space. Got high as a kite. You should really add some positive forced air ventilation to protect your brains.
A soft covering on the ceiling will hide a multitude of sins, and cut down greatly on the echos and reverberations.
I worked in shipyards for the better part of 20 years, and I 100% agree. I definitely heard it in his voice as Im sure everyone did. its not so much as the getting stoned part as it is the displacement of oxygen. Uma!!! Take heed, positive air pressure constantly! and shade tarps!!! sorry you got air bubbles that sux. you'll get it.
A bathroom type extraction fan over the mast hole would do wonders
@@theyard6958 Watching Dan struggle to find the right words did it for me, I don't think I've ever seen him struggle to find words before. Once is funny, a whole summer of it would be a tragedy.
You got air under the laminate because the balsa is not wetted out enough for that heat. The air in the balsa heats up (from the weather) expands and pushes out on the almost cured glass. what you are seeing is dry bond. You either got to get the temp a lot lower than you have or vac infuse. Best to get about 20 to 30 thousand BTU of cooling in there. Temp got to stay down around 20C for about 6 to 8 hours after catalyzing
A tarp can be strung up above the boat for shade and then you should be able to keep up.
In regards to your air bubbles, drill them out and spread in thickened resin. You can take some of your chop strand and shredded up and mix in with your thicken resin. The drill will make a rough surface for the resin to cling to and if you added in the fibers, they’ll give you all the strength you need. Just drill till you get rid of the air pocket and don’t drill all the way through otherwise you’re gonna have to grind back and glass over from both inside and out again, well, assuming it’s a large hole it’s a small hole just fill it with the resin.
You need to move the air conditioner inside uma and stick the exhaust vent out the mast hole. Air conditioners arnt designed to constantly chill outside air and move them indoors, they are meant to recirculate indoor air.
To salvage the work done, you may consider drill the air bubles slightly in & injectig resin into each one to force air out and refill the void. It may save you from additional work. Its worth a try .
So, it's not a 1972 Pearson 36 anymore!? It's gonna be a K&D 2024!!! Keep it up guys and hello from Quebec City, Canada.
I've been watching you guys for a while now and with your rebuilding efforts / progress, you have convinced me that I would be better off purchasing an old used sofa.
You guys are an inspiration! I just went through a similar (but not as extensive) repair on my Cal 40, which is about the same vintage as your boat. Cal 40s NEVER had a headliner and I would encourage you guys to delete yours. We use round headed barrel nuts (aka "blind nuts" or "sex nuts") for deck hardware where the bolt comes from the top and countersunk flat head screws for hardware that attaches from underneath. Pettit makes a mildew resistant, water based interior paint called "EZ Cabin Coat" that is super easy to use and do touch-up. (I would also argue that hardware store bathroom paint is just as good for 1/4 the price.) Somebody in the comments will say no headliner = condensation and mildew, but we have never had that problem in the 20 years we've owned the boat.
@Dan... Put silver reflective tarp/cloth over the coach-roof, to deflect some of the sunshine
Better yet... put two layers of camo-netting over in the form of a full boat length cockpit tent.
That would handle the wind better than a tarp, and be VERY effective and still allow the AC to work (old African/Army trick)
Its surprising how much heat the curing glasswork produces all by itself. Pay attention to the temperature ramp direction and speed. Gotta make sure that core is absolutly resin-saturated before glassing over. Exploit the ambient temp fall and rise. Slow-as-possible resin outgasses better. Lots of considerations. My money is on overhead ribs being necesssry. Every time glass flexes, internal fibers break.
"Tent" over the boat to keep the direct sun off the hull
Came here to suggest this!
Hi Dan and Kika! I'm loving the boat rebuild. Thanks for letting us sit on your shoulders and watch while you two do all the heavy lifting. Question on the AC. It appears that the unit draws outside air to cool and then you duct that into the boat. Is there any way you could rig up another duct to draw air from inside the boat to pass through the AC. That way the AC would be starting with cooler air and get a better overall temperature drop. Another option (when you're not grinding or sanding) would be to place the AC inside the boat and duct the hot air from the AC to the outside. Hey, this armchair boat building is fun. I'll have to try it more often;-)
Consider some silver reflective tarps to cover the deck to keep it cooler.
Thanks dan and kika, Processing out so good. Keep us posted And smiling.❤❤❤
Not sure about vinylester but with polyester you can use less catalyst to compensate for the heat. I have built boats and trailers for a few years and we used more catalyst when temperature was around 5-10c and a lot less in 25-35c.
We’re already mixing it at 1%. Which is as low as is recommended. 2% is the max.
VE resin works the same way
Have you considered building a tarp roof to keep the direct sunlight off Uma. Should help keep the temperature down a bit more. I know it's a pain in the butt, and will add extra cost. But it might be your only option to get a better final result in the glass work. Cheers from Winnipeg.
Should look for one of those tube ventilators and a flexible hose. Most DIY stores have those.
Watched you guys since the beginning, love watching what you do.
I admire your incredible stamina and perseverance! I am really looking forward to seeing the actual and final interior design. I always loved what you did with Uma's galley. I will miss the Hefty Susan. I always thought that was a brilliant galley design. I know you are architects - did you study naval architecture in school? This project seems more of an engineering and architectural one because of all the structure modifications. Do you have an end date in sight yet?
I’m pretty sure a big part of the problem is you’re putting the stitched biaxial dry and not prewetting it, after all it’s basically two layers of glass. With the resin kicking quicker due to the heat, pouring and rolling would saturate a lot faster allowing you to work the bubbles out quicker. I’m sure you’ve already got this figured out and I’ll see in the next video.
Cheers!
That is a huge bummer for how much effort you've put in. Really hoping you can solve this issue.
Just going to get hot and hotter! Good luck with your project, just keep in mind that you both are not just building a new boat interior but your producing rocking chair memories that both of you will always have between to two of you, So enjoy make it as fun as it can be or get 😂 Probably way to late for a tip but maybe next time your laying up so much glass at one time take some resin back to the motel with you and store it in the air conditioned room all night that way it’s cooler. Maybe take you a ice chest and put the resin inside so it’s not so hot while mixing it. I do something similar in the winter when I have to paint in the cold. Instead of leaving the paint out in a cold shop I’ll bring it inside and keep it warm. Just a thought
Motel!? Ha! We’re not that fancy. We live in our truck on the beach.
You may have already considered it, but if not here is an idea. You could spray cork all over. It would be leave a nice and modern finish. It won't do much of an insulation, but because cork as a very low thermal capacity you will have some benefit. The cork will be neither cold nor hot. The air will condensate less and it will eventually stop raining in the boat.
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Hi guys, good to see you put on a lot of structural material into Uma. The biggest secret is worry about what other people think or do it is your yacht. I always remember all those places you went to with all that ice around you and I’m so happy and that you wouldputting so much time and effort into that rebuild/refit. Keep up the good work guys love and appreciate you both from Australia. Hopefully one day you’ll come down here and visit us from the Thunder down under.
By making the "window - areas" stiffer I expect a transition from a "S - flexing curve" to a "Z - flexing curve" with smaller flexing areas wich will be stressed more and could make your Boat less durable. I think that the thin walls are intended there to "decouple" the deck from the flexing hull and because the area isn't flat from the front to the back it is pretty stable in the other directions.
Yeah like garden netting shade over the deck
Thank you both for the structural, fiber, filling, faring and coring video knowledge. I agree with the early comment as I found night shift work the much better option for glass work. I really learn from this video the difference between epoxy and vinyl ester and micro aggregate filler. Jim Rodgers
Wow that's So Much Work!! We admire your drive and tenacity!.....Just think how much you've learned over the years!! You're Labour Warriors!!🎉🎉❤
With several 2"x4"s and a bar like a piece of pipe between them also take some 2"x4"s and build a stand on each end. Then put your rolls of fiberglass on the pipe/bar. You can build the bar holder as high as you want the fiberglass, and if you have several rolls you can then build it with several bars across. If you want to get super fancy you can add castors that can hold the weight of all rolls and the stand & pipe. If I were you since you don't have a workshop table then build it so a full roll is just above the ground a few inches. Tips from a fashion designer who works with rolls of fabric all the time.
A/C units are designed to remove heat, not inject cold. Your Delta T from the unit being outside is too high, need the unit inside the boat ducting hot air out the mast hole.
if you have a mast hole, put a good extractor fan on it. The fan you have is great it would just need to be sealed around the mast hole. It will make a big difference in working comfort. Unless you are not allowed, where you are. Air conditionning will not do much for air exchange, whatever air it will push in, will dump the fibre dust all over the cockpit, where you do some of your work set up, I am sure. Extraction is always better than blowing air in.
😮😮😮😮û6ju HH 7 Huh hhhhuuu 8
463L pallets are air transportation pallets. They are built of a balsa wood core and surrounded by a thin aluminum skin. There are 22 tie-down rings surrounding the edge, each rated at 7,500 pounds (3,400 kg). Empty, each pallet weighs 290 pounds. It can hold up to 10,000 lb (4,500 kg) of cargo (not exceeding 250 lb per square inch) at 8 g.
Even though they were designed over 60 years ago, they're incredible!
They're also sealed. Periodic inspection and testing reveals whether they've developed a leak. If they have, they're reconditioned, re-sealed and re-testing. Failing the stiffness test, they're tossed.
I'm excited to see this glass on the ceiling part of the project.
I'm sure you've found this. AC needs hydrodynamics. Fresh and recycled air. A bit of shelter for your AC. An outlet for hot air that is regulated by a crack in the campanion way. A lot to ask of a small unit with the added heat generated by the proccess of fiber glassing. Your're dream could have sold as the original UMA and moved on. You both chose to rebuild for the next adventure. Inspiration met with humility. From begining to end, you are both amazing, a tip of the hat.
Put cheap furnace filters on your fan and it will suck all the dust out of the air and make clean up much easier.
HI Guys. One of the reasons for adding a headliner is insulation, and maybe to prevent condensation. Just sayin'.
Headliners actually traps condensation. Unless you use it to hide insulation. But the liner itself doesn’t provide any R value.
Just amazing the effort put forth.... admirable
In summer we use do a q cell mix. On to the foam before glassing to help reduce air bubbles and to seal foam might work not sure just a ideal keep up the good work 👍
That type of AC needs to be inside the conditioned space with the hot exhaust going out. As it is, besides the whole unit being baked in the sun, it is trying to constantly cool hot outside air rather than recirculating conditioned air. Not sure how long it would survive with all the dust and whatnot inside though. Any air conditioned space also needs insulation to help keep up, but I would think you’re already going to do that since you had to below the waterline before for condensation control. If you get another AC, look into dual hose units. The one you have looks like a single hose AC, which creates a negative pressure inside due to constantly expelling the hot air. Dual hose doesn’t have that problem but you do then need two sealed holes for the ducts.
What MrTumnus said! Open up one of your future vent holes to run internal air back to aircon unit. And SHADE the boat.
I was going to say, either this or invest in a marine DC AC unit from now.
Water wouldn’t condense on the hose if it was the exhaust like he showed. Plus they would probably feel hot air every time they walked under the mast. I’m guessing this unit can have a hose installed on both the intake or exhaust depending on the application. Would be funny if it was heating it up though.
Yes, I thought the same. Dan, put the AC inside with exhaust pipe on the mast hole. Not easy, maybe some clamps on the bulkhead holding a piece of plywood. The exhaust airflow will help, the recirculation will do it's job
@@ryanp0342 if you pause on a close up of the AC you can see that Dan appears to have taped the duct to the cold side of the unit. I wasn’t saying that he was pumping hot exhaust in to the boat, but it isn’t in a very efficient configuration.
Why not use an electric sizzor for cutting the fiber glass and save your hand from the pain ?
I wonder if it is air bubbles you see or steam: you cool the boat down, get condensation on the wood, you glass over it and then when it heats up the water evaporates before the glue has a chance to stick
As it is fairly dark inside UMA you would not lose much by glassing at night using a few lights, Start as the sun drops and the falling temp will actually help you.
Reduce the amount of catalyst/hardner the rate of thickening can be managed that way. Or… run a hose over the cabin top as you work … or recirculate your cool air thru the ac… maybe all three
We’re already mixing at 1% which is the minimum.
@@SailingUma we stopped using poly or acrylic resin for prosthetic limbs in the tropics, because it will harden in the drum if it's not in an AC environment. If you use less than the 1%, you have to be really careful with mixing it, there is a risk that theres going to be bits of the resin that doesnt get any and hardening takes days... but I still love the smell of resin and the fun of mixing talc to make filler paste ..
Great job and videos! I am really happy that your programm has siwtched back to full on DIY with technical commentary. Just a Quick question: Have you considered adding a staysail fitting tack point now that your deck is accesible for lamination??
I assume there is some front to back ventilation planned eventually? Boats go in the water and get moist inside whatever you try to prevent, moisture in an enclosed space means mould
The air conditioner is positive pressure forcing air in and having nowhere to go the air conditioner will struggle give UMA a vent. Love the videos.
I'm also busy donig some glass and epoxy work on my model boat. Things started a bit rough due to temperatures dropping right after I mixed up the expoxy, but sorted itself mostly when thesun came out and I could use its rays to heat the work. By then I removed a few clamps thinking it would be cured and it wasn't;.... Finally the Versamid125 came in and I could simply mix it with the epoxy to creat a very strong medium viscosity glue... I am basically using it like filleting but also pried open the bits that weren't good seals and smeared lots of this glue mix in there... Doing the repairs in small bits so I can use gravity to pool the epoxy where I want the most of the mass to end up. I got some polyester with wax for the outside skin as it won't need laminating. hope that isn;t going to come back to bite me. I'm a bit of a noob... at least with practice... I can't seem to find any silica or other hard filler to add. But is working at this scale.
How about getting a cooler full of ice and chilling the resin/catalyst mixture to slow down the kick and give you time to work the mix into the glass? Just a thought...
You guys are killing it
Time to bust out the Petzl headlamps and go nocturnal.
When OCD and boat work meet! 😂. Great work love to watch you guys do boat projects
When you have completed all your work on "Uma", she will be as strong as steel and your next set of sailing adventures will be far less worrying for you. Can't wait to see her in the ocean again.
The air space between the hull and the drop ceiling provides *some* insulating properties. If you don't have any insulation properties on the ceiling, you won't be able to cool/heat the boat.
Sounds like you need to drill double holes into the bubbles and syringe resin in to fill the bubbles?
…. It’s like you can predict the future ;)
I hope that your family in Haiti are doing well.
Did you want the hardness of all that filler in the ceiling indents? A much lighter solution is to cover the indent with tape and spray foam in the void. Then a few layers of chopped strand over the foam seals it in and turns your indent into a box-beam. Light and strong. I used that in several places on my catamaran.
Are you considering putting balsa core or foam on the ceiling? I think if you put balsa core or foam it would provide a thermal break and prevent a dew point and moisture forming on your ceiling. The same way your turtle hatch and ac pipe had condensation from the moist outside air from the cooler air on the interior- if it is warm inside and cold outside you could have moisture form on your ceiling. Been watching since the start and I am enjoying the boat building again!
The AC unit needs to go inside the boat and you need to duck the heat from the condenser out of the boat. That way you are using cooler return air because an air conditioner can only cool so many degrees difference. So the problem right now is not the air conditioner. It’s the fact that you’re starting with 90° air and you’re trying to cool it more than the average 18° difference
Balsa core has air inside! After you have glassed it over, the temperature raises and the air expands, creating the air bubbles. You have to do the glassing while temperature is failing. So late afternoon till midnight (or morning). You are not the first ones with this problem, coring and glassing in non climate controlled environments. 😢😎
Tin foil or emergency foil blankets to reflect the heat? You can spray the back with soapy water (maybe mix in something tacky) to get them to stick to the hull. The aircon isn’t ideal as usually it would take the air from the cooled space instead of taking in hot air from outside but you’ve had to do that because of the dust, maybe hire an industrial 18,000btu+ unit?
Lot of blankey
Love the hair Kika
Pretty sure you should consider at least a couple windows (port lights) eventually. (guessing where you're headed - would love to hear more about your overall concept)
Yes of course. We’re putting port lites and hatches back in after we finish the core. We mentioned that a few times in previous videos. We’re not going for a pitch black cave vibe. We LOVE light and ventilation.
@@SailingUma LOL, thought maybe you were building a bomb shelter. When you did your last major remodel, I think I remember you showing some sketchup renditions of what you were thinking. Since you are both trained as architects I really loved how you worked through that process. Thanks for the reply too (I followed you since before you were famous)
The air is entrained in the balsa, vacuum bag it or fully seal the balsa with resin before trying to glass it.
Hi Dan and Kika
Have you ever thought about putting UMA in the shade?
without direct contact with the sun it will be cooler.
the best of luck
Unfortunately Unless we place Uma inside (which costs a LOT more and limits us to what we can do ourselves) there is no shaded area at the yard. But we found a solution ;) stay tuned in the next episode
Have you considered stringing up some sails or gazebo's over the top of the boat. Since it's coming into summer, it might make it easier to work with a cover from the sun.
The height of the boat would be an issues, as would wind, but if you could find a way to at least cover part of the cabin area you are working on, it might make things easier.
I saw one couple build a car port over the top of the boat whilst they renovated it. Just a suggestion.
Really interesting seeing you work on it and explain why you are using what you're using. Thanks for taking the time to convey the difficulties.
When glassing timber you get ( out gassing) when you get rapid temperature rising . You need the timber to reach its maximum temperature and decreasing in temperature.
Wondering if you just smooth it and paint, somewhere down the line condensation will make things a moldy mess? I might be wrong here though.
If you stiffen up your boat, is that going to put more stress on others areas of the boat?
If you put in a double layer ceiling you could conceivably put in a layer of closed cell foam to insulate Uma, and more comfortable.
Open up the chain locker for ventilation maybe? If you put a fan blowing out there it will bring air through the boat
Why did you not put the csm side of the 1708 down against the balsa for better bond?
With vinyl/poly resin you cannot put a new layer of glass on previous if it has started to cure. Put 2 layers at same time but that's hard on a vertical surface. pre-Hot coating the balsa can minimize any gasing from it.
Not putting the csm side on balsa is a problem too it .
Cheers warren
A vacuum pump and some bagging to suck the fabric tight against the walls and remove the air bubbles, will help. Also perhaps if you use epoxy with extra slow hardener, it'll work better?
A light colored tarp covering, but not touching, the boat will do wonders for keeping it cool inside. I'd try that before a bigger AC unit. Solar irradiance is 200-400 BTU per hour, per square foot. If your AC is 9000 BTU/hr, then it doesn't take much area in direct sun to overwhelm it.
Two thoughts: a layer of insulating foil (as used in domestic ceilings under a tile roof) and then black shade cloth draped over the deck would keep heat out and cool in. Right now your A/C doesn’t have a fight8ng chance.
Do you think you might need insulation on the ceiling? I’m thinking condensation in colder weather. Just a thought….
One of the challenges with wood is that air in the wood is released as the temperature goes up. Very important to keep a stable temperature when glassing which creates an essentially impermeable cover over the wood. If the wood temperature increases there is nowhere for the air to go and so it lifts the glass creating the "bubbles". Bummer.
I would plan to prep the ceiling for paint but also add some hollow fiberglass beams to strengthen the deck. Not only would the beams make the deck rock solid but they will provide space to run wiring and other systems for overhead lights and anything that fits to the topside of the deck. Also you are glassing in a dark cave, why do you need to do it during the heat of the day. Just glass at night on some graveyard shifts. If that cant work you should put up a sunshade tarp over the boat. That should help with the cooling no matter how big a AC you get.
good progress!
The way I see it is this is a room AC unit?, and you are putting hot, exit air into the boat. If it is designed to be in a room The units pulls room air in or in this case outside air, cools it and room air is then pushed by the evaporator, and back in to the room. It looks like you have the hot air exhaust going down the mast hole? ? Is it cold air you are receiving inside the boat? Love you two!
Drop ceiling and add insulation which is what I did with your advice yoga mat puzzle blocks
I'm slightly confused regarding the AC-setup. Usually room-acs like that one blow the conditioned air out the front of the actual unit, and the tube is for exhausting the hot air ourside. The setup almost looks like you are cooling the Italian spring, and putting the extra heat inside Uma.
I completely agree with the tent over the boat. When my friend had a yard in Miami, Florida he always had a tent over the boat he was building. He built both 52 foot an 66 foot sailboats.
Can ya pre-wet the pieces of glass outside n then bring em in? Or drape the boat on tarps to shade it from the sun? The heat that’ll be under the tarps will likely blow off before maybe heating up the boat so much as the direct sunlight? Allowing your ac to be more sufficient?
Pre wetting doesn’t work well with VE resin. Much easier to wet in place.
I heard you say this is going to be a looong project. What about putting the smallest ductless mini split air-conditioner in there. In the US you can get an off brand Mr. Cool unit of 9-12000 btus that will run on 120v ac for around $500. Maybe you can find the equivalent in Europe. You'd have to temporarily mount the head unit on your bulkhead, but the you can run the refrigerant lines out the mast hole. I've seen people use these DIY mini splits in temporary installs, and even a small unit can cool a tiny house in the hottest Texas summer.
What’s the saying: 1st world problems? 😂 Nice work! and inspiring for me as I am in the middle of a refit myself on my W32.
Just demoed the fore-peak 😅
Hot glue foam insulation on the out side of the cabin top one side at a time if need be
You need to keep the sun off it as well just cooling down the inside is causing more problems
Good idea to paint the overhead instead of a liner. Much simpler maintenance without a liner!
Personally, I wouldn't use balsa since it has an open cell structure and absorbs moisture quite readily.
Same, especially on the deck where there's a lot of movement. It will probably last fine for them while owning Uma though
they've already made their bed with balsa despite serval viewer objections to this pointing out all the flaws with balsa as a core material. typical architects ignoring engineers 😜
Like we said in that video, our deck is already blast. It’s 50yrs old and holding up just fine.
You just have to seal bolt holes properly and fix any damage as soon as possible.