When Did It Start Getting So Bad? (Game of Thrones)
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 20 сен 2024
- The title says it all: When is the exact moment where Game of Thrones go bad? At what point did the show "Jump the Shark". Today's episode of the Thrones Podcast we discuss when this happens and of course we both have very different points in the show's history where we think it happens.
▬▬ Support My Channel ▬▬
● Patreon: / redteamreview
●T-Shirts: teespring.com/...
● P.O. Box Coming Soon
▬▬ Follow Us on Social Media! ▬▬
● Facebook: / redteamreview
● Discord: / discord
● Twitter: / redteamreview
● Instagram: / redteamreview
● Tumblr: / redteamreview
● Snapchat / redteamreview
▬▬ Check Out These Videos! ▬▬
►Star Wars Playlist - tinylink.net/i...
►Game of Thrones Podcast - tinylink.net/D...
►Game of Thrones Theories - tinylink.net/g...
►Game of Thrones Season 8 Playlist - tinylink.net/l...
►Game of Thrones: An Epic or History Book? Feat - History Buffs - • Video
▬▬ Information ▬▬
Game of Thrones is an American fantasy drama television series created for HBO by David Benioff and D. B. Weiss. Based on the fantasy novel series, A Song of Ice and Fire by George R.R. Martin. A Game of Thrones is one of the most successful television series to ever made and continues to captivate audiences all over the world. The series is set on the fictional continents of Westeros and Essos, and interweaves several plot lines with a large ensemble cast. The first narrative arc follows a civil conflict among several noble houses for the Iron Throne of the Seven Kingdoms; the second covers the attempts to reclaim the throne by the exiled last scion of the realm's deposed ruling dynasty; the third chronicles the rising threat of the impending winter and the legendary creatures and fierce peoples of the North.
▬▬Disclaimer▬▬
All Red Arrows and Circles are placed in thumbnail for comedic and parody purpose. They do not point to or highlight anything in specific and are just there to make fun of other trash and awful RUclipsrs who use it to bait people.
#Gameofthrones #fireandblood #windsofwinter #HBO #podcast
GoT jumped the shark the moment Arya was stabbed 8x then fell into Bravos sewer water, then somehow defeated the terminator because she turned off the light switch.
Close but not quite there
I enjoyed that scene as it borrowed from old Japanese samurai movies, showing Arya was a master of her senses - even the movie 'Dodgeball' used the old blindfold trick
@@OfficialRedTeamReview No...I think he's pretty much got it.
While that's a ridiculous moment, there were stupid things way before that.
Yes, that was the turning point for me. Sure there had been silly scenes before, but from that moment I couldn't take the show serious anymore.
Sansa getting married to Ramsay
Arya’s terminator chase
Cutting of the Tysha scene
Littlefinger’s jetpack
Dorne
those are the big ones
but the beginning of it all was season 5
b1bbs g0t h4nds you really don’t see any issues prior to that?
@@PwnZombie sure very minor ones, but the most blatant started in season 5. seasons 1-4 were near perfect television. but in season 4 the fan service of Arya and the Hound spelled doom for the show to me, and the fan service Brienne vs Hound fight. I can't think of what else it's been a while
And they even introduced tysha in season one! But the Arya terminator chase was genuinely stupid as absolute shit.
Yeah that happened a lot with Arya and with Bran: they'd CUT book storylines, only to then INVENT filler scenes with the same characters....just doing stereotypical scenes imitating their greatest hits from earlier seasons; "funny banter!". Arya has riverlands storylines. Bronn has the Stokeworth storyline. They somehow managed to cut their book storylines AND give them filler scenes!
You rock, love your channel!
@@Ironorchids I'm just stumbling around, really. I have no idea why people watch as much as they even do.
It's funny since I was actually on board with the Jamie/Bronn going around dorne. the issue I had was the story itself, I liked the premise.
@@e22ddie46 I mean yeah, Jamie and Bronn are both interesting characters and Dorne should be an interesting place to explore. They had a neat little story line at their hands but they couldn't be arsed to actually do something with it.
@@SophiaLilithUwU yeah, they could have easily had them follow the balon Swann plotline, have them off hunting darkstar.
I can hear Egg shouting during that shirtless Ramsey scene. "Get him, Ser! He's right there! Get him"
Egg who?
Oh ok lol. Was that who was in his rewatch? I thought it was sweet Robin.
Hahaha this comment had me dying. It was funny enough on its own but even more for me because the audiobook i listened to was read by a guy with the most obnoxious voice for Egg imaginable 😂
Eddie F lmao he’s in a book Martin made about a young prince and a knight
Eddie F Aegon the Unlikely. Went by Egg when squiring for Sir(?) Duncan the Tall because he had a shaved head in order to hide his Targ features.
Ramsay isn't a good fighter in the books. The show turned him into a villain sue.
Actually, in the books he is a much better fighter. The show just made him an archer.
@@MalrickEQ2 more a brutal fighter, with his meatcleaver of a sword.
@@maxgrozema1093 It's called a falchion, just so you know.
@@jacobadam6804 yeah forgot the word for it haha
Only in the shirtless scene. Other than that we only see him ever use a bow.
"True Blood was the Queen of HBO."
HBO's Rome: Am I a joke you?
True Blood was the show that made anything possible. Shocking was mostly lost after True Blood until Thrones.
Well, the woman's role has always suited you _best._
@@thedragondemands5186
Marc Antony: Proscription intensifies....
Sopranos. All of this came from Sopranos. Technically prior to that there is an argument for Oz as well. Carmine was probably a toddler back then though. The Wire is also the greatest show of all time, but not the commercial success that built the foundation for this family tree of series.
@@kahlbutomacfarland
I'd say the Sopranos was the grandfather of the HBO family of TV series.
The moment was when Ramsey and his ten good men took out Stannis’s professional army. Then Brienne was able to locate Stannis in the forest that he somehow miraculously made it to the woods after his army was surrounded in the open field. The 7 foot Brienne was then able to sneak out after executing him. That was the end of GOT for me.
Twenty. He had twenty good men.
@@mimkyodar ohhhhhhh!!! Well that makes total sense then lol
@@ronmo671 never forget Ser Twenty of House Goodmen
Cersei should of hired House Goodmen instead of the Golden Company. Battle would of been over before if began
I’d agree with that one
They had long, tracking shots of Arya slowly washing bodies at the House of Black and White, with no dialogue, because they were showing off Maisie Williams' face. Listen to the commentaries. It's nothing but them praising the actors "emotive" faces; they're just showing them off with vanity closeup shots of their faces over and over again. Washing the floor, just the camera lovingly following Maisie Williams. They cared more about that than Dorne. More time to develop Dorne.
Has your therapist considered "emotive" faces as part of your class action lawsuit against Benioff and his secretary?
@@gregp103 "Most of all, for THESE Performances, THESE Faces, that's why would made the decision to put Sansa in Winterfell"
Yeah, they are all about emotion, no care for logic or story.
Saw this comment, thought to myself this person clearly watches The dragon demands. Then I looked at the poster lol
Or give Jon and the wildlings any discussions about how he is undead. Seems pretty interesting since they're going to fight an army of them. Or just for like...existential curiosity even.
More like jumped the Stark
So tempted to pin your comment
@@OfficialRedTeamReview What's keeping you?
Noyce
Starks genuinely get pushed before they jump.
Yes Preston...the worst part of the Yara Season 4 subplot....was that Bryan Cogman was INSUFFERABLY PROUD OF IT, and never even seemed to REALIZE it was full of plot holes.
You’re just mad that “mad queen” Daenerys didn’t get the ending YOU wanted I’ve seen your content 🙄
@@tha_jet_king3537 you for real? He's just mad the show got raped sideways.
@@tha_jet_king3537 It's not that Dany didn't get the ending we wanted. It just made...no...sense! Why would she suddenly become a psychopath? Her whole goal was to "break the wheel", to stop the peasants being crushed by the power struggles of the elite. Now that she has achieved her goal of being the most powerful woman in the world, she goes nuckin futs cause some coin flip bullshit? And if she were to go loco, why not focus her rage on Cersei?
@@tha_jet_king3537 His content has lots of interesting facts. You should concentrate on that instead of psychologising (like he does for Benioff). There's strong evidence the show was handled like shit and the people behind the scenes struggled with the producers to produce something of quality.
Kyrielsh1 lol at “strong evidence” only strong opinions and that’s about it.
Game of thrones went down hill the day they killed the one true king stannis baratheon
Littlefinger? I agree
Joffrey? I agree
@@sapiensursus3034 stannis? I agree
Commander Shepard I... i know. I was making a joke.
Night King you mean?? I agree
The Series 4 finale dropping Tysha.
Before that, you had dropped plot points, or newly added ones, that were generally acceptable, especially for an adaptation, but this was the first time a major, MAJOR plot point from the books was dropped for absolutely no discernable reason, and the effects it had on the rest of the story would have been apparent after five minutes when they realised Tyrion had no reason to act like the monster he did in ADWD without this context.
After that, it just kept getting lazier and lazier, but this was the first time they majorly and categorically dropped the ball with this series.
It was not unsalvagable in S 5/6, but the writing was clearly on the wall by now and the end product almost inevitable as a result.
yeah I really flipped out at that one....then I started lying to myself that "maybe they're saving that for Season 5"
That's when it did to me too. and the Beetle Speech who replaced it
I've never read any of the books so I'm just going on strictly how the TV show was written and I enjoyed it all up to season 8
@@aldente3709 the Sansa rape didn't seem strange to you? Littlefinger randomly wanting to marry Sansa off to the Boltons for NO clear gain? What the heck was "the plan"?
@@thedragondemands5186 Littlefinger just kinda..
forgot to ask for a reward.
Game of Thrones Starring
Sansa Poole
Bronn Oakheart
Jaime Swann
Jorah Connington
Tyrion Selmy
AHAHAHAH I understood all of these
Season 4 was when it mess everything up, Jaime being at Joffrey's wedding was the tip off.
They slighted me many times, but it was tolerable until season 5. Then it became unforgivable.
Geez... don't lose your head about it.
@@originalsamshu1 boooooo
They have made favorite character awful, I will not forget that, I will not forgive that
I agree with Your Grace.
There was some shoddy stuff on seasons 2, 3, and 4 but it was easy to overlook.
That’s my Mannis
The moment that did it for me, “weak men will never rule Dorne”. So D&D. So NOT GRRM.
And we'll do that by murdering this innocent twelve year old kid. Our cousin. To get justice for a death no one would even think was wrong, quite frankly.
“To avenge my lover I ma kill his brother and nephew lol he would be so proud.”
The Red Viper: ........wat
The point Preston makes about Yara's ludicrously funny and stupid expedition to the Dreadfort to lose a battle against a shirtless Ramsay is so true and hilarious :)
Yep. And he even pointed this shit out years ago. He has that scene in one of his rewatches from like...season 7. Where he's just like...kill him. Kill him now. Just walk over and kill them.
Eddie F holy fk I remember that now that you mention it. I am pretty sure I was almost crying with laughter during that vid. When I originally watched the episode I was pretty young and dumb so didnt quite comprehend the sheer stupidity of what i was seeing until preston pointed it out
That fighting was good expect for the shirtless Ramsay the director explain that Yara was not running from the situation of being trap in cells. For everyone it just weird how it was edited that Yara was running from dogs and shirtless Ramsay. It was just weird man.
It was probably Season 4 episode 10 because they left out the Tisha released.
That was what I picked as the shark jump, but Preston is right that there's a lot of pretty sub par filler in season 4.
The mutineers were meh.
Meereen was meh.
KL was awesome of course.
It all started with them not having me in it.
Season 5 episode 1. It was the point where you could sense that there was going to be noticeable impact from the book plots that were cut. If you watched anime in the early 2000s, you're familiar with the concept of "filler arcs", where the adaptation catches up with the source material and the studio has to invent storylines to buy time for the real story to continue. Even though season 5 used elements from Feast/Dance, it definitely felt like they were just spinning their wheels waiting for the next book to drop. There were other issues too. The loss of some of the best antagonists (Jeoffry, Tywin, Mance), an uglier color palette (too much yellow and brown), and a lack of subtlety (the necklace snake threat). There was also the issue that characters who played well off each other were separated and didn't fit will in their new dynamics. Jaime wasn't as interesting without Brienne and his role in Dorne was nonsensical. Jon lost Ygritte, Aemon, Mance, and Sam eventually, and was left with *Ollie*. Littlefinger was split from Sansa and did fuck all in Kings Landing, and Tyrion was outright boring without Tywin, Cersei, or the Small Council to play off.
Valid points. To be fair though, I've found Tyrion to be very boring in the books too after he escapes Kings Landing. Dont think its just a show issue
Mark Roy :( it’s sad how he has less intrigue, but I enjoyed his journey on the Rhôyne
@@markroy8342 Tyrion in book 5 is kind of a weird case. He starts off at the lowest point in his life, and his journey is one of hedonism, penance, and suffering. We see a lot of interesting people and places through his POV, but he's mostly being moved from one situation to the next with little input of his own until his final chapter.
@@markroy8342 I enjoyed when Tyrion was with Griff and Young Griff but other than that, Tyrion hasn't had the most enjoyable arc.
Some of the points you make come from the books
It bothers me that so many people say it was just season 8 that was bad but don't say anything about prior seasons. It had been going downhill since season 5. How do so many people not realize that?
Really? I find that to be the general consensus. I kept watching hoping it would get good again... All we got were some epic moments, terrible, nonsensical story telling, but it had its moments.
@@Boobalopbop Yeah, I've found most of the people I know only criticize season 8, but don't have a lot to say about the other seasons. I think maybe it's just that season 8 was so bad they forgot about the others.
I thought Season 5 was bad from day 1. I vividly remember being so glad and relieved that Preston started doing episode reviews, because he was the only person, critic or otherwise who called out the obscene drop in quality while everyone else kissed the show's ass. To this day, it BAFFLES me that "The Long Night" is where most people turned on it. The show has been roughly the same pig swill since they threw Stannis in the dumpster, made Aryas cool assassin storyline a tedious drag, blew Theons legendary story, and dropped the vastly superior Sansa hiding in the Eyrie with Baelish and seeing how that stylish motherfucker plays everyone like an instrument for literal torture porn (which I would think Carmine would be hella upset about).
I respect that Carmine enjoys Season 5, and to be fair in retrospect it is the least awful of the show's terrible second half, but this really was the point where D and D began to take every character and story in the least interesting direction It was the first time the show was just...bad.
I hated when Brienne and Podrick just run into Sansa and Littlefinger in that inn.
A lot of super casuals may think that the show was good all the way to the very end. But I really doubt that the show would have reached anywhere close to it's popularity if it hadn't been for the superior quality of the first 4 seasons. If it was only ever as good as season 5 and onwards a lot of those casual viewers that don't see anything wrong with those seasons or even think season 6 was great would not even give a shit about the show in the first place and probably wouldn't have even heard of it. The show rode on the back of it's past success for years. Those early seasons got people invested enough that they didn't notice that it was actually nothing special for pretty much half of its run.
I can only speak for myself here but up until the long night I had at least a speck of hope that they would somehow be able to produce something satisfying at the end of it all but the moment Arya flew out of the dark and stabbed the NK I knew it had all been in vain. I’ve never felt more empty watching a show. Dexter season 8 wasn’t even as bad as this and I could rant for days about how terrible Dexter season 8 was.
@@AVerySillySausage I think the worst thing is that if they made jon snow the one to kill the NK I genuinely believe casuals would still regard s8 highly
As soon as Ed Sheeran showed up I lost all sense of immersion. There were immersion breaking bits like shirtless ramsay and shit but it was forgivable. Having Ed Sheeran show up was where I just started thinking about how much they sold out and cared more about the amount of views they were getting rather than the completion of the story and the enjoyment of the fans
Yes.
For me it was Battle of the Bastards... going into that episode I didn't know what to expect, what we did get was a cliche resolution worthy of a standard Hollywood script... nothing made sense... Sansa not telling Jon about the Knights of the Vale, Knights of the Vale showing up at the perfect moment to save the day. The showdown in the castle (Jon/ Wun Wun/ Ramsay) makes no sense. As if not one of Ramsey's men at the least wouldn't have shot at Jon and killed him when entering the gate. It all felt divorced from reality in the service of 'epic moments'. Something that would become all too common from that point onwards.
Battle of the Bastards WAS NOT the "triumph of television" they kept telling THEMSELVES that it was.
Very happy you said it. And don't get me wrong; I thought that episode kicked ass. And like most things in the later seasons of Game of Thrones, the technical aspects were incredible. I honestly can't think of another medieval battle scene like THAT. Even with other massive-scale battle scenes from the show (i.e. Blackwater), I have never felt so engaged in the action.
But, the showrunners essentially made it clear in that episode; the characters' actions no longer have consequences. John can do something stupid like charge his horse at a huge opposing army, get his horse shot from under him (while he manages to avoid the arrows?), fight only on foot (didn't really see him doing much commanding in that battle), get his army surrounded (watch that scene again, it's fucking stupid as hell; they just stand around with their teeth in their mouth, watching as they get completely surrounded)...I mean, Jon lost the battle. He should be dead. Even with Sansa saving his ass, he proves that he is not the competent commander that people thought he was.
Personally, I was hoping the writers would have taken that angle; if he can't command an army of 2000 men, what do you think will happen if he ever becomes king? All those times that he said "I don't want it" in the last season would have made a lot more sense if he recognized that, no, he WOULDN'T be a good king.
But, well, that's just not how it happened.
HubbleFunk i used to think Battle of Bastards was perfection, but you said it right, they changed goos writing with epic moments for people in bars to react to, thats sad.
@@TheDaniCalifornia1 well I like your quote better, Daniel.
Honestly Ramsey even going out of the castle to fight is fucking stupid.
For me, they jumped the shark the instant Tyrion and Jaime hugged after Jaime frees Tyrion. In the books, Jaime telling Tyrion the truth about Tysha, and Tyrion telling Jaime the truth about Cersei sets up so much story and character development that's just GONE in the show.
Yes
Season 5, Sansa’s rape. Maybe Sir Barristans death.
Definitely Stannis’s death. So yeah Season 5.
Sansa, Dorne, Shireen, twenty good men ... yes, season 5.
@@Gekokujo76 She was raped, she wasn't a willing partner. She didn't consent, we even see she doesn't say "yes" and she is intimidated by him and he knows that, WE know that. There's no denying it was rape. She was scared, visibly uncomfortable and forced down onto the bed. Any reasonable person would be able to see that.
Stannis is an overrated shit Character book and show, I don't get it
@@Gekokujo76 i disagree with your overall outlook on this. come on. you must admit, Ramsey did not make love to Sansa. He's a pretty fucked up guy. He brutalized her violently and to my recolection cut her with a knife, didnt he?
@@Gekokujo76 Okay incel, bruh why all your comments about here just hating on women?
It was not that they ran out of book material its that they stopped using it. Books 4 and 5 were barely adapted.
It's understandable.
There were moments though.
They clearly loved the Mercy Chapter.
Next video: where did they turn from “jumping the shark” to “shitting the bed”?
The sand snakes storyline in season 5.
@@BeachlessIsland starting season 6 by just...killing doran, Tristane and everyone.
BeachlessIsland “You don’t need a good girl; you just need some bad p*ssy.”
Kendall shit the bed, but that show just kept getting better and better
To say season 5 when they ran out of source material .. Is just wrong all together , because I've heard George in interviews talk about how he would tell them things and give them suggestions and he would get constantly overruled and there is nothing he could do. Also, they didn't really adapt Dance .
Ran out? Season 4 was about the end of Storm of Swords. They had two whole books left!
the Arya chase in season 6 was the jump the shark moment for me, where things never really were the same after. But upon a closer look, it definitely starts going downhill far earlier. I was just willing to brush off occasional bad scenes/stories because most shows have some swings and misses but thought GOT would be able to recover.
When Tyrion got out of the crate and him and varys had a banter about feces I was like "oh no, they started on the wrong foot already with the original material" but the sand snakes... unforgivable
You guys missed the part where the show dragons become pokemons all of a sudden
The series jumped the shark when Arya was stabbed repeatedly, fell into the river, and was running and fighting soon afterwards. Thats when I remember being the angriest for the first time.
I honestly noticed cracks in season 2. They messed up Dany's story and undying vision there but season 5 was the downfall but I still like rewatching up until the season 6 finale.
Frankly the hyper focus on the killing of robbs unborn child during the red wedding wasnt really tasteful or necessary either.
@@SophiaLilithUwU, the point of that was to be sure that Robb’s child wouldn’t be born and could definitely not avenge him like how we all thought Robb would avenge Ned
@@joeyjerry1586 Uh-huh, sure. Because fetuses have such great survival records if their carrier is killed.
I've forgotten how much I've missed you Chad Summerchild-ing over the show whilst Preston quietly disagrees.
It went downhill when wolverine got stabbed 10 times and fell into a sewer infested water canal only to come out cleaner then Tim Robins came out of the sewer in Sawsank Redemption.
Didn't you ever see Reservoir Dogs? Getting stabbed in the stomach will really hurt, but not kill you.
@@ThereIsNoLord it wasn't just the multiple deep stabs to her abdomen, it was also her falling into shit water. She should've died from sepsis if she didn't bleed out first.
@@tidepride86 Perhaps the actress had a natural bacteria-cide. She wouldn't have died from sepsis immediately anyway. I think it was shit writing, don't get me wrong. But there were many sins that preceded this one, as well.
Just about everything with the Greyjoy’s was Jump the shark. When Euron wins the kings Moot and Yara and Theon run away and take the ships. Euron commands everyone to make a new fleet and in like a few episodes they were fully up and running.
Little Finger being killed off was when I really realized these writers had no clue. Little Finger is arguably the most cunning, smartest guy in Westeros. There’s no way he’d be caught off guard or fall for a trap like that. Once people started warp speeding all over the map. Jon to Dragon Stone from Winterfell and back in a week I was like 🙄
littlefinger should have died in 7 ep 2, it's no longer a political intrigue show and he had no point of being there. Sad news for aiden gillen and his bank balance but they could have saved a lot of hassle of him just being shady and doing nothing
theres a lot to hate about GoT after reading/ listening to the books. they ruined their decent tv show that started out based on great books. it happened the moment they decided they could come up with better ideas than GRRM....
And Thorne killing Jon and then openly telling everybody
The moment that REALLY got me, where I kinda checked out, was when Arya was stabbed, swam in a river and the next day was running through the streets like an athlete. It went against all the established logic of the show, and even though the next two episodes (battle of the bastards and winds of winter) were two of the best, I felt like the big set pieces were the only things the writers cared about because everything else was stupid. Then once they started fucking about with the big set pieces in season 8, there was nothing left for anyone to enjoy.
People blame Martin for procastinating his last two books when David & Dan just skipped an entire book for fuck sake!
Walking dead’s jump the shark moment I would say was when Carl gets bit and dies
Yeah I actually never watched another episode of walking dead after that and almost forgot about it completely until you reminded me here. That REALLY just ended that show for me for some reason.
The whole Dorne story ruined the series. Transforming concubine Ellaria Sand into Queen Boss was laughable, especially when one has read the novels! Her line (paraphrasing): " It's time to choose: Doran and peace or my way and war!" Just awful!
Yep. Season 5 was the beginning of the end.
It’s started going down hill during the episode where sansa and theon jumped of the castle wall and were on the run. As they were hiding out in the woods the hounds were getting louder and louder as they keyed in on their location. The dogs were so loud and it sounded like there was about 10 dogs on them. Just as the dogs were about to find them brianne comes out of no where and saves the day and all the dogs just magically disappeared. There’s zero chance GRRM would have wrote that scene like that. That was it for me.
I really liked the Yara actress, but to cement the fail of this arc, they didn't even name the character correctly because of some naming mixup fear. As if the characters didn't look really different. Also, the whole Dorne plot reduction basically making a lot of later politics no longer make sense. Also, it's really clear that once they ran out of source material, they instead tried to focus on fan favourites, which they didn't succeed with except maybe Jaime and Brienne overall.
Giving a character a name that won't be confused with a lesser character's similar name is not cementing an arc fail. It's not even stucco.
When exactly you accept that a show starts getting bad is actually an interesting question. I remember that for shows like The Simpsons, King of Queens, Game of Thrones, Two and a Half Men, I tried to keep myself convinced for way too long that it's still good/funny/worth watching, until I accepted that it has turned to trash.
In hindsight, it's easy to say that a show turned south at some point. But as not all shows go down that path (Sopranos. The Wire, Star Trek TNG for me), I guess it's only a natural reaction to give the benefit of the doubt until you just have to accept: yes, this is just TV-trash now...
Vikings was always trash, I stopped when Rollo returns to the north after the battle for Ivar.
Nothing gets bad if you do enough mental gymnastics. 😭 or if you go to Egypt. You'll be so deep in the Nile.
Kevin Finnerty sends his regards. Kenard would know how to take care of that punk ass bitch.
@@clantoriador8397
It was one in a million,
it was born to shine.
Season 5 was my lost all hope season. I read all the books in the wait between season 3 & 4, and finished all of them. So I’m really fucking hyped for Dorne, it’s some of the best shit in the books, and they blew it :/
The second they ran out of book material.
They didn't run out of book material, they just actively chose at some point to ignore or subvert all of it.
Earlier than that. And they didn't run out but skipped it.
The. Very. Second.
They didn't run out materials they skip over it thinking that they could do better than GRRM.
The death of Stannis Baratheon. That's when it started to go from a FFA for the throne to the Stark and Danny vs Lannister show.
They rushed his character development in Season 5 and just completely betrayed the fanbase. Also the exclusion of Young Griff was also apart of the show's simplification of the conflict.
Season 5 Episode 4: As soon as they killed off Barristan is when the show finally jumped the shark.
Personally i point at the Beetle speech in Season 4 as the turning point with getting that stupid speech instead of Tysha reveal
Nah. You're just ragging on the show cause its cool now. The beetle scene showed man's desire to oppress and rule others.
@@leonrobinson8180 man, you know nothing, i have been hating on the show a long time, there's a reason i own the four first season on bluray but none of the other after
Leon Robinson “cool” now? The show started pandering to normies in the later seasons, how is that cool😂
@@calvin5541 I meant dissing GoT is cool now, even among hardcore fan channels. I agree though. Dumb and Dumber got drunk on their own fame, and started pandering to "progressives". Suddenly jumpcuts, plot armour and other TV drama tropes snuck in. Sad.
Leon Robinson the cracks started to show in season 5, season six had a few good episodes that made people forget that the rest of it was kinda iffy, season seven was where we could tell that something was truly wrong, and season 8 was an abomination, the sum of all fears...after the end of season four it progressively got worse up until the end
I 100% agree with Preston, season 4 is when I realized the show runners were lost without materials from the books and would ruin the show.
I didn’t watch season 5.
For me the true "jumping the shark" moment was freaking Arya getting stabbed in the gut multiple times, swimming through shit water, and then being just fine while killing the Terminator. Sure, there were earlier red flags (the Dorne asshattery had some true lolwut stuff even for someone who hadn't read the books) but I kinda brushed them off in denial cuz "all shows have their misses, this one will get back on track". The Arya moment was when the veil was lifted and I finally realized the show just wasn't the same anymore and never would be. The writing had became stupid and it had adopted the usual Hollywood crap in the name of "spectacle" (Sansa not telling about the Vale to Jon just to have an "epic last moment rescue" is another example). And then we get greeted by Ed Sheeran's stupid face in S7 and I'm like "Yup, all hope is lost. The show has officially sold out."
That Yara/Ramsey scene was the ultimate "this will be competly awful, as soon as we leave the Book Plots" scene. As in: It would totally makes sense in Season 8... which means: it was the first time the entire universe basically collapsed...
Well the show was weird in that due to all the branching storylines, even Season 5 had good storylines in it...intermixed with awful ones (Dorne and anything related to the North and Boltons)....which OUTWEIGH the good. So many pro-TV fanatics were saying at the time "focus on the good!" to drown out our criticisms. "Yara being chased by dogs makes no sense!" "Shut up, focus on the good things in Season 4!"......even I admit that the Daenerys storyline in Season 5 was good, as was the Tyrion travel storyline (the last time he did anything instead of just drinking and wisecracking), the Cersei vs Margaery storyline was...shortened, but decent enough - it began and ended strongly (Smallest Council meeting with Kevan, then Walk of Shame). But everything else...
Zzzzzzzzz
As soon as the show starter gaining popularity, normies started creeping out of the woodwork and they started pandering to Hollywood. They started cutting down on the sex and sexual violence (although they had no problem killing men😂) because the Hollywood elites complained about it. I’m not saying that’s what made the show great, but it was part of the atmosphere that made it unique to say the least. Game of thrones went down the same franchise killing path that so many other great franchises have been forced upon, Star Wars, Last of us, Vikings, terminator, to name a few. As soon as Hollywood gets involved, you can kiss creative license goodbye. It’s a damn shame
Why does that bit about the Lord of Bones at 16:25 makes me laugh every time I replay it
Aren't the episodes, with Ramsay shirtless.. and the hound saying "Meryn Trant won because he had armour and a big fucking sword"
in the same season?
yes they are
While I love season 4, the omission of Tysha really was the red flag that signified the show was doomed with the benefit of hindsight.
For me the jump the shark moment was Stannis senselessly burning Shireen and then pointlessly dying like a chump the next episode by Brienne who just happened to wander in a battlefield with no problem and find the one guy she's looking for.
Problems since the failed pilot. But it only reached cartoonishly awful levels in Season 5. But it was the same systematic problem expressing itself in different ways, over and over again: D&D are impulsive idiots who faked their way into the job, playing actor favoritism. Thus Talisa Season 2, Sansa rape Season 5, Arya Chase Season 6, and Wight Hunt Season 7, culminating in Season 8...all happened for the same reason:
"We want to show off These Performances and These Faces, so we reconceived the role to make it worthy of the actor's talents".
There were a series of points where I increasingly realized things were getting bad; starting when they changed Talisa in Season 2 and their response was "we didn't change anything", I realized they'd be problematic....obviously Season 5 and the Sansa rape, but I was in denial for a year....the LAST straw though, the last straw was the Battle of the Bastards, which was filled with plot holes, and NO, it DID NOT "pay off" on the invented Sansa rape - she didn't DO anything to "defeat" him, only execute him after he's already tied to a chair...but seeing the writers and cast act like it really WAS "her" defeating him. As narrative agency. That was the last straw that made me start researching Blu-ray commentaries, and I realized "wait, they're not professional writers. With screenwriting degrees. They don't have those"....but Battle of the Bastards was the last straw.
I will say I freaked out when they took out the Tysha reveal from the Season 4 finale...but then I calmed down and...hoped, that they simply pushed it to Season 5.
But yeah I've been genuinely freaking out since the Season 4 finale.
Dont disagree with you in many points but sansa brought the knights of the vale to defeat the bolton army so id say she did have part in the victory
And as for tysha i kinda get it but they couldnt make tysha as important as in the books bc much of her played out in tyrions mind so its hard to put into the show so i actually like that they made his relationship to shae much deeper in the show
Wait, every award winning screenwriter without a screenwriting degree has to give his statuette back.
You're re-hashing thoughts from your old videos. Any new thoughts fueling your unbridled obsession?
@@gregp103 How long do you got?
@@youshallnotpass2156 Sansa didn't "bring the Vale army". Littlefinger told her to, and she gave in to accepting his help. How is that an "accomplishment"? She SHOULD have done something of substance, but that was nothing. That's all Littlefinger's plan, not hers.
@@thedragondemands5186 if sansa wasnt there then littlefinger wouldnt have come at all
I think Ser Barristan and Stannis’s death are the moments that showed D&D stopped caring. There was some annoying stuff in the earlier seasons like Robb marrying for love making him seem like an asshole and the dreadfort attack but those were relatively minor. Ser Barristan’s death was so disrespectful. He’s still alive in the book and protecting Meereen against the slavers and they decide to kill him in such a stupid way. Why would he be walking around with full armor and how did a badass figher lose to a bunch of nobodies and his death had no impact to the story whatsoever. You could remove it and literally nothing would change!
Stannis’s death was honestly worse. It’s so clear they killed him of because they hated his character and didn’t know what to do anymore and they clearly didn’t understand what his character was meant to represent.
The seeds of the shows downfall were sown in season 2 and 3, 4 and 5 built on it. 6 and 7 were pretty poor and 8 was abysmal.
That being said season 1-3 are great and season 4 is mostly great however by this point a lot of damage has been done.
For season 1-3 is perfect. Season 4 is like 8-9/10, the cracks were showing but there was just so many people moments from ASOS brought to screen that overshadowed any of the writing issues. The clear break in quality is season 5. They went off book plots because they thought it was a bad idea to start introducing all the characters and plotlines from Feast and Dance that even hardcore book nerds complained about(probably the right decision) so started making more stuff up, but they just weren't that good as writers and the stuff they made up was total horseshit.
For me when it all started downhills was the introduction of the Night King. At that moment I knew this is gonna be a supervillian who needs killed and then everything is done. And that is what happened in season 8. Arya kills the Night King and every whitewalker is gone.
This was in season 4 but only what he did was making Craster son a whitewalker. Fine, but everything after that was stupid with the NK.
Shirtless Ramsay Bolton, I think. And the reason why I say that is that it isn't necessarily the moment the show stopped being good, but it was the moment that show-only scenes stopped being good, and it was the moment that really gave the warning that the music was about to stop and things were about to drop off a cliff. With the sole exception of the fight between Brienne and Sandor later on, none of the show-original scenes were special or added to the story in the way they had so many times before that. My favorite scene in the whole show is the scene with Cat telling the story about Jon Snow, and I spent the whole of season 4 hoping to see another scene like that. And, well, I really didn't. I wanted another show-original scene that puts voice to an undercurrent from the novels and connects some major character beats in a way that makes things feel more cohesive. And we never got another one like that again.
Although completely correct arguments about the Ramsey scene, I fully agree with Preston. It was the train wreck of the ending of Arya's Bravo's storyline that angered me so much that I was no longer prepared to forgive the mistakes. Before that point there were mistakes, but the show was still in a general upward trend, but after the Bravo's airline, generally the show just continued a strong downward trend.
I spent the last season's hoping for a reveal that Arya had died in Bravo's and the Waif had been wearing her face. It would have explained so much.
For me it was the season 4 finale. No stone heart, no Tysha, no confrontation between Tyrion and Jaime. Between season 4 and 5 I was like: hmm maybe the good seasons are over.
I agree that Hardhome and Battle of the Bastards were just throwing money at the screen, and some well-directed shots - by directors who are not D&D! - and great costumers - who are not D&D! - but the writing is thin at best (Hardhome) or ham-fisted and filled with plot holes (Battle of the Bastards)
If I killed Stannis (which I wouldn't) and had Jon fighting Ramsay at The Battle of The Bastards, I'd set the battle at The Lonely Hills which is close to The Dreadfort. The reason for this is that Jon and his army of Wildlings were pretending to march on The Dreadfort to lure Ramsay's army out of Winterfell and into the open because Sansa and The Knights of The Vale arrived at White Harbor. Jon and his host of three thousand Wildlings have taken the high ground and dug in, building anti-cavalry stakes with trenches. Ramsay sends The Karstarks in to attack Jon, becoming bogged down on the bottom of the hill, but they push through. Jon and The Wildlings hold their ground. Ramsay sends in his light infantry but Jon and co. are able to hold them off and make a counter-charge, pushing them down the hill. However, Ramsay sent half of his around Jon's camp in the night. As Jon's men reach the bottom of the hill, the flanking force charges down the hill and surrounds Jon's army. As the situation looks dire, The Knights of The Vale along with a coalition of Northern Houses arrive and capture Ramsay. They break Bolton's first army and outflank the second. Not the best but it's something.
It had bad things before this point but for me the jump the shark moment was when Danny killed all the Dothraki leaders by knocking over a single fire. It makes absolutely no sense and it even looked dump on camera.
Arya's entire plotline in season 6 was what did it for me. Especially because the Faceless Men plot was isolated enough to kind of serve as synecdoche for the whole show in terms of how D&D will approach resolving character arcs and mysteries.
The Braavos story in season 6 had to do two basic things; unravel the mysteries of the Faceless Men organisation, connecting it to the wider story etc, and resolve Arya's character arc, specifically her identity crisis. Not only did it not accomplish the former (we learned virtually nothing new about the Faceless Men as an organisation in season six), but it actively ruined everything that we new about them to the point of making no narrative or thematic sense. At the end of season five, we get the scene where Jaqen 'dies' only for the Waif to take off her face and reveal another Jaqen. This was supposed to demonstrate to Arya (and the audience) what already should have been obvious; that these people are truly faceless, the 'Waif' and 'Jaqen' are simply roles that the unknown people involved in this organisation are playing. Then, in season six, the Waif and Jaqen both reappear, as if nothing happened, *still* playing the same roles, with the waif still trying to kill Arya. This not only makes no sense in relation to that season five scene, but destroys the very idea of what the faceless men are supposed to be and represent. They no longer function as 'faceless' men at all, now they are indistinguishable in terms of motivation and behaviour from any normal characters.
On the latter point regarding Arya's character arc, this has already been talked about to death, but it is genuinely one of the most insanely bad things in the show. She is supposed to be a character lost in terms of who she is and how she fits into the world, with becoming 'nobody' a very obvious metaphor. But nothing that happens in season six relates to this theme or logically leads to her declaring that she is 'Arya of house Stark' at the end. She leaves the faceless men because the Waif (or whoever is playing the Waif?) keeps randomly trying to kill her, not because of any reasons relating to issues of identity. The closest we get to this is with the actress who reminds her of Catelyn, but she is mainly conflicted because of the ethical reasons around killing an innocent and kind person, which isn't really relevant to her identity. If it had been established that she is capable of killing innocents, but then had been assigned to kill a member of her family (Sansa or Jon, say) or someone that she was close with before becoming a faceless man (like Gendry), this would have actually made sense as an internal conflict, logically lead her to embracing being Arya of House Stark again, organically brought her back into Westeros and the main story AND actually been compelling and interesting television. But D&D gave us this illogical mess instead because of some weird refusal to do anything interesting.
Looking at all of this it's easy to see how we ended up with season 8 being the way it is, because their failure to resolve mysteries like the white walkers and their butchered attempts at resolving character arcs is all there in the season 6 Arya story. The know the ending they need to get to, but their path to get there is uncreative, messy, and nonsensical.
😂Preston talking about True Blood reminded me of Annie in Misery getting upset with the serials at the movie theater..."That's not what happened last week! He didn't get out of the cock-a-doodie car!"🤣
Thanks for explaining the "jumping the shark" idiom! I'm sure Happy Days was broadcasted in Germany at one time but I didn't really know it. Must have been before my time.
Season 4 episode 10 when Jojen and Meera are attacked by fast moving skeletons with no muscle to hold them together, only to be saved by children of the forest acorn hand grenade.
The shirtless Ramsay moment was the initial wound that began to unknowingly fester with the infection progressively spreading into different storylines in season 5 and then even more into season 6.
In season 7 it finally claimed Kings Landing and from then the series turned septic
You should do a part 2 of this or do a video of the things that you didn't like in the earlier seasons doing this season by season.
"You need a bad pussy"
That line, that was when it jumped the shark for me. Or at least just became plainly bad.
Its dead body was then burned at the start of S6 when they teleported on the ship and killed the entire Martell family to avenge Oberyn, who willingly died to avenge his sister/family. That's when the show was dead to me.
I just watched it for the production value.
16:00 - Atmosphere maybe, but action I'd go all the way down to 7/10 for their earlier work and like 4 or 5 for their latter work. Mostly because of how shit they are at strategy and how bad they are at plot armor and also how bad they are at regular armor armor which apparently part way through the show became tissue paper. Remember when Jorah blocked arakhs on his plate because he knew it was impenetrable by bladed weapons? Good times.
Season 4, Episode 5, what they did with the nights watch mutineers at Craster’s Keep, Karl Tanner was a pantomime baddie in a tv show that was up to that point all about shades of grey .... the unnecessary crossover with Brans storyline.... What they did with Locke. What they did with Raste. First time I really noticed crappy storytelling.
I would have payed double the money for those season 1, 2 and 3 Blu Rays
I hesitated slightly when I purchased the season 4 box set.
They also kill more deserters on screen than they scouted before.
"Karl Tanner was a pantomime baddie in a tv show that was up to that point all about shades of grey .... "
I don't know I'd say since the first season the show has had unambiguous baddies who are just there to be evil. What kind of depth did characters like Meryn Trant or the Mointain ever have?
The show jumped the shark when Ser Barrison died to a bunch of unarmoured dudes in Halloween costumes.
Love these podcast. Still great to revisit.
For me the first disappointment was the absence of Ramsay during the Winterfell plot of season 2. Roose saying "the Lannisters send their regards" instead of "Jaime Lannister sends his regards" always bugged me. Season 5 was where it took a drastic turn, Stannis, Dorne, Greyjoys were ruined while the other plots and characters became charactures just going through the motions.
What’s wrong with Roose saying the Lannisters send their regards? Just saying Jaime makes it seem like he had a role in the red wedding
@@joeyjerry1586 Exactly and that fact comes back to haunt Jaime in the books. Even the fact that his name is mentioned at all really gets to him because after all he does tell Roose in the books to send Robb his personal regards in a mocking way where as in the show he just says "the lannisters send their regards" in a sincere way and it doesn't really make sense. You've proven the point of the writers thought process though since they literally only changed it because they thought people would take it as Jaime having orchestrated the massacre. Shame that they had to dumb the story down and it certainly effected the writing going forward.
@@extraplain2412 they likely changed it when they decided not to do the stone heart plot.
Season 4 Episode 10 was the start, with the removal of the Tysha Confession
The Arya and waif battle was one of the breaking points for me, the worst part is that it would have been so easy to "fix"
When the waif traps Arya in the room have Arya drop a dead bird from under her bloody shirt, then she turns of the lights... (Bonus if there's a cat in the room)
This way instead of failing, locking bad, receiving a mortal gut wound and killing the shows last holds on immersion, realistic consequences and it famed everyone can die aspects she could come out on top outsmart the waif and "earning" her spot as an bad ass
When GRRM left the show in end of season 4 that when it was done.
The bad poosey line. At that moment I knew the show was dead. Matter of fact the entire Jaime/Bronn buddy cop Dorne misadventure
Even the removal of the Tysha confession was redeemable. But the crap they pulled on King Stannis is so unbelievably disgusting ewwwww
Even though S4 is probably my favourite season for overall interesting storylines, I definitely agree with that dreadfort scene being the beginning of things to come.
Props to our man Preston who uses the term in a technical and ultimately correct sense. The non-source scenes were usually shit after that. Remember Cersei and Robert in S1? An interesting use of the medium and it gave me hope for things to come.
@@BiggestCorvid the change of Tywin from Roose Bolton in Season 2 was lovely too
thank god the guy he's hosting with knows the definition of jump the shark
Alternate title: Carmine misunderstands "jumping the shark" for 22 minutes
One of Arya's mantra's contains wolverine, this is a subtle hint to her healing abilities.
Haha I believe the cast all went to California for some sort of vacation, hence fonzie’s shark moment. Don’t know if Mork was before or after that but yeah things got bonkers
In one of the episodes there was Arya washing the floor for at least 6 minutes, and then the actual creation of the white walkers in less then 2 minutes. I tried to find back that backstory of the white walkers later and I couldn't find it because it's so short
Fonzie jumped the shark in California. He was taken to Hollywood by some movie agents who broke down in Milkwaukee, and thought his coolness would translate to the big screen.
I realised Game of Thrones was beginning to stop being Game of Thrones in Season 5 when Stannis was killed by god damn Brienne in the middle of a battlefield... rather than him taking Winterfell. It would have been far more in keeping with the spirit of Game of Thrones if a grey character like Stannis took Winterfell rather than Jon 'bathroom-door sign' Snow.
But he wasn't "killed" by Brienne, he was lying prone by a tree after taking on shit loads of soldiers. There's no way Brienne would have defeated a healthy Stannis
@@aldente3709 No shit he would wreck her. But she did murder him. Or at least finished him off like the cowardly stupid cow she is
@@onetwothreefourfive12345 - But his story was that of someone corrupted by power, he could never have taken winterfell in the show. His death might have not been what was best for him, but it was best for Brienne, keeping her promise to avenge Renly, like she kept her promise to Catelyn Stark. She, just like her sword, was the "oath keeper" after all
Kings landing losing all its best characters - Joffrey, Tywin, Tyrion, Varys, Littlefinger. The best part of the show took a huge hit and all the other storylines weren’t good enough to pick up the slack.
Dexter also had the same problem. First 4 seasons of that show were arguably some of the best TV ever made. And then seasons 5-8 were absolutely fucking terrible.
I’ve always said Season 4 was the drop off, it’s when the show had started to gain popularity and became more about fan service than anything else. Season 4 was still good but the quality wasn’t there.
Arya's stabbing and whatever the fuck happened after that, was the first time my bubble of "this is such a perfect show" was burst. i loved the show for its realism and bold decisions but THAT was such a stupid plotline that my trust in the show was destroyed after that.
then that completely meaningless drama between Sansa and Arya in season 7. that made me realise that we were probably not going to get a good ending for GoT and I was right. As far as I'm concerned, GoT ends after S08E02. The white walkers come and destroy them all. The End.
I've said it for years: The precise start of GoT's downfall was when Jaime got his hand cut off and it smash cut to a rock version of 'Bear and the Maiden Fair'.
I remember CBG19 saying the exact same thing but that's a bit of a stretch though don't you think?
@@OfficialRedTeamReview I think when you look ahead at many of the immature decisions they made in the later seasons - focusing on celebrity, childish humor, and fan service - that episode's sudden shift in tone was the start of it. They treated Jaime's hand getting cut off as a punchline to a joke. Their first real wink at the audience.
I can't remember if Podrick being given back his money by the prostitutes happened before or after that, but that was another absurd joke added in that reduced the overall maturity of the show.
After that credits scene, they were capable of anything because they knew their fans would accept it.
Why?
I didn't know it completely for the moment that it was when it aired, but I'd argue that Game of Thrones "jump the shark" moment was when Stannis and Melisandre burned Shireen. The action was in Melisandre's wheelhouse, you could perhaps argue, but it was NOT something Stannis would have done without several more mitigating factors in play that would have made Stannis reasonably believe that burning his heir was the best thing to do in his situation. The show didn't establish those additional factors though, so burning Shireen was a hollow and painfully stupid and cruel move that only served to villify Stannis so he could die without much fuss in the next episode.
I still think Shireen will very likely be burned or sacrificed for Stannis's goals somehow in the next books (Phyrric victories and all that, pun very much intended), but it won't happen just for the sole reason that Stannis and his army is snowbound (the set on the show when Shireen was burned wasn't even that snowy by the way). Shireen will probably be sacrificed at Mel's say so because killing her will gain Stannis some huge tactical advantage and either save his men and his cause, or her death will help Mel save someone Stannis desperately needs to remain alive. That makes more sense and frankly, if the show had done something like that, I think a lot of us Mannis fans wouldn't have been so butthurt if and when Stannis did die in the show. We weren't really mad because Stannis died, we were made because how and why he died made zero sense.
Additionally, burning Shireen was a true jump the shark moment for the show because it so effectively broke the base. Before burning Shireen, the base of the show was already split between show fans and book loyalists, with a ton of strain due to character changes the show made and weird writing choices like having Sansa and Cersei be raped onscreen, and having Tyrion's journey through Essos be eliminated. But I was there for season five, and the base didn't truly break until Shireen got burned. Suddenly overnight, every book fan was seemingly on Team Mannis and pissed off all at once, and every show fan was convinced Stannis had gone full dark side and Mel was an enemy agent who probably was an Azula stan. It was 2015, and I was living for it, but not in a good way. Controversial writing choices can exist and writing to risk breaking your base is okay, but not if your writing exists to break the base between fans of your material and fans of the source material. Harry Potter book fans and movie fans coexist because their base wasn't broken, for example. The movies diverted from the source material, but they didn't willfully graffiti over it in such a bombastic manner (though I would argue Ron's movie counterpart was painfully written). Game of Thrones did break it's base though, sacrificing a massively important plot thread and character arc just to simplify it's writing structure, and so when it jumped the shark, it made waves.
I do wonder what the circumstances for burning her in the books will be, as Stannis actually seems to be in a pretty good position to *win* the Battle of Ice, what with the holes in the lake and the Northern Conspiracy and all. I *do* however see Jon's death and Mel-deemed-necessary resurrection of him being a factor for the burning of Shireen. Overall, I enjoyed your comment. I'm re-reading HP right now and it's always niggled at me that Fred and George are supposed to be kind of squat and square in the books, and Ron is supposed to be tall and gangly, but in the movies, it's the opposite. Having said that though, I actually couldn't imagine anyone else playing these characters, particularly Ron. I f*cking love those movies.
Madeline Sartori I have a feeling that Shireen will be sacrificed by Mel without Stannis knowing. Selyse will have that decision but, regret it. I wouldn’t be surprised if she will jump onto the pyre and die. This will likely to resurrect Jon. I think it will be Stannis that will defeat Ramsey.
On a good note, Alan Ball left True Blood to do an awesome unknown Banshee! This was Homelander’s show before The Boys and it was awesome!
To be fair, Ramsay *was* born on Krypton. And he doubtless jumped over sharks, too.
I thought he was born on The Moon.
@@alanpennie8013 Wherever he was born -- or hatched -- it clearly gave him superpowers.
I really liked Yara's rescue mission because of its ridiculousness. I think it's more akin to comic relief rather than jumping the shark.