Disagreed on the Danny wedding scene stuff. Dave & Dan come from a place where they cant picture people having a different socialisation from modern 21st century people. So what would be horrible to us must be horrible to everyone, anywhere from any time period. This is not true though. The book version of events leading up to the first night make sense. Danny lives in a society where people often dont marry who they choose, especially nobles and especially'er royals. Im deliberately not using gendres here, because making this a "women were oppressed" thing is rubbish: young boys were used the same way in both real medieval Europe and George's Westeros. Only boys could get some experience outside of the wedding bed easier without casting doubts on heir legitimacy. Anyways, kids were raised expecting that. Danny expected to marry her own brother, whom she definetely (and maybe unconsciously) didnt love, at least not in a "I want to marry him" kinda way. Obviously, she's very young on her wedding night, even by medieval standards. Still, the point is that a young person in that context would believe it to be a normal thing to be married off to a stranger and be expected to have sex with them the first night. That was simply the norms in medieval Europe (and elsewhere too) and Westeros. Now, does it make sense that she could be brought to enjoy it? Well, if we picture a 21st century 13 year old in that situation, probably not. They'd be horrified. But, to a 13 year old that knows this is viewed as normal by her society and that everyone around her expects it to happen, it makes more sense that her original position is just fear of the unknown and of this foreign stranger. It may help that Drogo is good looking. It certainly helps that he is taking his time and easing her into it. In point of fact, he actively works on dimishing her fears. Just to clarify: would that work on any girl of 13 with a medieval style upbringing in that situation? Probably not. As they are in short supply, it's rather difficult to test though. Also, very clearly, Im not saying that this sort of behaviour would be in any way excusable or okay in 21st century reality. But it's relevant to not view characters in a complex medieval fantasy novel as having the same mindset as us reality-bound modern humans.
" Dave & Dan come from a place where they cant picture people having a different socialisation from modern 21st century people. So what would be horrible to us must be horrible to everyone, anywhere from any time period." that's actually a very good argument. But we mostly were discussing how it translates on screen to the average viewer who isn't all into these concepts. Book fans are able to immerse themselves in this word with copious amounts of detail of medieval times but can the audience do this? Maybe. But Dave and Dan need to appeal to a wide audience, most of whom aren't familiar with how they did things in those times. Pinning this for others to see, thank you!
Also, in the show, Dany still ends up falling in love with Drogo - and falling in love with your rapist makes a lot less sense than agreeing to sleep with your husband in an arranged marriage. It would have been better to just go the other way entirely in the show, and make Dany less scared about the marriage from the start. That way, her decision to sleep with him would have been even more understandable, and we wouldn't have had the "falling in love with the rapist" weirdness.
@@guyr3618 Good point. Especially since Dany is a good deal older in the show. Let's avoid "sheikh" clichés altogether. Make Drogo always considerate and respectful. Why not? It makes Dany's later devotion to him more understandable.
I think the real issue with the Dany/Drogo wedding scene is the lack of behind the scenes transparency: that Martin flat out says they “never discussed it” with him - when something as sensitive as a marital rape scene is something you should at least discuss with a co-writer. I say it was sensitive from experience: I first watched the premiere in a college dorm with my girlfriend and her roommate, both girls had read the books, and they silently tensed up so much during that, I was worried they’d give up on the rest of season one. Fundamentally, this is literally the FIRST time Benioff and Weiss have given a public explanation for a scene in the first episode they changed to marital rape...A DECADE after it aired, a year after the Season 8 finale? Even if this was a good reason, which I even think it was, it was given far too late. Their lack of honesty was a warning sign from the start.
What I remember from the book, the present of the horse and the ride at the ceremony made Dany feel free and excited. (Maybe those feelings have something to do with her mysterious childhood) Drogo was honestly more respectful of her feelings than most men in Westeros would be. I found it quite hard for D&D to start their relationship that way.
The problem with Arya and Bran's acting is not that the actors got worse, it's that the characters got bland and one dimensional, you can't give an oscar winning performance from that
I honestly liked all of the actors. The only ones to blame for this fiasco are D&D. Not the actors, not the directors, not the costume designers, not HBO. Just those two.
To play devil’s advocate, late season Cersei’s material was just as bad as Arya and Bran but Lena is a boss and still managed to turn in great performances. Although obviously not everyone can be Lena Heady.
The Littlefinger decision to sell Sansa to Ramsay made no sense, especially for the character of Petyr Baelish: I agree with GRRM where he wouldn't just throw Sansa away, and to what end? What does he achieve by selling her off? Also, you're gonna tell me that Petyr Baelish, a man who prides himself on knowing everything about everyone and how to manipulate them to get what he wants, has NO IDEA about the infamous Bastard of Bolton? I couldn't buy that for a second. And they don't even explain it after the fact! Sansa asks him why, and he just stares at her. She says "You're either evil, or just stupid" or something. Whatever, the show's finished now. Fuck it.
Its possible Peter wanted to get the vale army and her cousin to rescue sansa from being used this way by the boltons, but yeah, it was badly delivered by d&d.
@@raaf4678 You literally can see he has full control of SR in the show tho. He really didn't need Sansa for that so that excuse is debunked. It was just a cheap way to merge storylines so they wouldnt have to deal with them later.
@@MM-mx2zt thats true, it was very clear in the scene when Peter gave the Bird. But I was just trying to think of something that could be at least a bit of a logical reason for doing that to sansa.
@@baxterbrownentertainment Dude's a human being whose profession and very survival at this stage is to know about everything and everybody. That's... literally his job. He wouldn't be able to outsmart characters like Tyrion, Varys and Tywin if he didn't. It really really isn't that much of a stretch to believe he would know about the most unsubtle mass murderer in Westeros, Ramsay Bolton. It's so much more illogical that he'd have no prior knowledge of the person he was selling his most prized possession (Sansa) to; even if he somehow had never heard about the Bastard of Bolton, surely he would have done some teeny tiny research about the man he was making a deal with? It's just basic character writing really; y'know, consistency.
Preston 🤦♂️ You're overthinking George's least favorite scene being the hunting party. He's just being professional and polite by picking something early in the series when they didnt have the budget for something with grandeur. It's clear he resents giving these doofuses his story, but hes not going to shit on them in public. He's a smart and polite guy. Love you buddy.
Possible, but he does make some further criticisms as well. I don't know chronology by head, but it may just be the first time he was disappointed. Firsts always count extra. He wanted his world to be brought to life. And from the books, George obviously cares a lot about the extravagance at the court, he spends pages on describing the grandeur of such scenes. So it is plausible that this would jar him as "that's not what I signed on for".
regarding dany and drogo scene: drogo does seduce dany in the first scene in the books- and changing it showed yet again D&D’s blatant lack of understanding how trauma works. and honestly, it’s such a bad pattern with them that it feels weird to have to spell it out. regardless of if it’s “ok for a 14 year old to consent,” here’s how the text lays it out: dany is being sold into marriage. she knows she is going to be consummating the marriage. she has probably been THOROUGHLY prepped in what to expect since at least her first period. in these books, u get ur period, u can have sex now. it’s heavily suggested that her brother has done plenty of sexual and nonconsensual things to her body in the past. and she goes into this arranged marriage thinking that somehow it’s going to get even worse for her now. and then her husband, not only has never lost a battle thus giving her a false sense of security, but isn’t a complete asshole to her. he gives her gifts and tries to ease her into the process. it does not say that dany is suddenly happy to be in her situation, only that some of the fear leaves, because she realizes hey, maybe this is going to be alright. after this, yea, we find out dany doesn’t like the sex but i think that first experience, especially to an abuse survivor, would feel like something to strive for. she would have a reason to try to find that sweeter side of drogo. even if that’s messed up it makes sense.. whereas D&D have her treated cruelly off the bat, so like, it makes much LESS sense (at least, to me, as a woman who has been thru SA) that later she’s like “i actually adore this man.” it does a great disservice to drogo, who was supposed to be unique in his culture in other ways too, being somewhat non-traditional. and this was just the first of so many pointlessly added sexual trauma scenes D&D included because why? because “if i hadn’t been tortured and raped, i would have stayed a little bird all my life” the unrealistic fantasy that trauma is somehow necessary or even beneficial to a characters growth.
standing ovation for this comment ... D&D's horrific rape attitudes have serious consequences for the storytelling throughout the series and this can't be ignored.
I do think both Maisie and Isaac were at a disadvantage in later seasons though, since both of their complex, relatable engaging characters became emotionless robotic shadows of their former selves... So I don’t think the actors necessarily regressed so much, rather, Arya and Bran did...🤔
Regarding the characters acting, I noticed it a lot across the entire show from season 4+, and particularly with Arya, Sansa, Dany, and Bran. For whatever reason, they all seemed to have gone with ‘powerful character = becoming a monotone cold blooded badass’. I have to think that they were instructed by the director
I still cringe a Sansa's scenes with the black dress in the Eyrie looking like an edgelady. Like they built up her character at that moment appearing to become somewhat of player by Littlefinger's side. Nope, she gets sold to the Boltons like a crying innocent girl next season.
@@viniciusvyller9458 It's the interplay between weakness and strength that makes a character. Edgy Sansa was a good concept, as long as she's also very vulnerable (yes, it was too sudden and overacted, but could've worked). This could've played extremely well with Ramsay, where he obviously dominated her directly, but she would be trying to manipulate him and lure him to his doom. That'd be tense. And that'd be character. One could also think of Arya. She's ruined in the show by taking away her struggle of her identity and humanity. Indeed, it's a disaster when we cheer for her killing the Freys. We should be torn by her lack of humanity in it. Jaime may be the strongest illustration: starting as a pure villain, he is humanized by showing his *weakness* and *vulnerability*. We come to see he resents being nothing but a pawn. It's his struggle between being a pawn to his family, and becoming his own man, that makes him a character. Instead, the show is 1-dimensional. Sansa is either a damsel or a supreme ruler. Jon is either an idiot or the righteous warrior. Arya is just a killing machine for fan service. Jaime is just a high-level simp most of the time. Littlefinger is invulnerable until he loses his plot armor. And so forth.
With Dany's wedding night in the books, I took it as Dany taking a leap and being brave. We don't see anything after the point where she says yes, for all we know she hated it and was still scared the whole time. It's not really out of character for timid/quiet/shy/scared characters to have moments of instantaneous bravery. Think about Sam when he stabbed the Other for example. And I wouldn't say I was brave at all, but I've done the occasional brave thing where I just tell myself to do something and in that moment just going for it without hesitating anymore. I assumed this is what Dany did on her wedding night - she was scared but didn't want to let Viserys down and wanted to make a good impression on Drogo and said to herself "fuck it, let's do this".
@@sagebias2251 lol maybe. Imagine having mind control abilities and using it to make other people horny haha. It could be that Drogo was pretty good with his foreplay; it "seemed like hours", after which Dany was "breathless". I think it's possible to be aroused and scared at the same time, lots of people are a bit scared on their first time! Or a more simple explanation is that she was just naturally wet anyway which is normal and doesn't only happen for arousal. I'd believe her dragon dreams are from an external influence and they do have the effect of making her more confident but then in the moment it's still her using that confidence and being brave even if she's had some encouragement or a push in a certain direction. I don't believe she is literally being controlled though.
@@sam_c95 I just rreread the scene. I forgot about the foreplay. Although I wonder why this stopped immediately after the wedding. Maybe it was Dothraki wedding ritual or a religious thing. If I had to speculate, he did seem very excited at the idea of Dany conceiving. And got more excited once he got pregnant. Dany initially told him no, and he persuaded her via foreplay. (I understand this is all messed up) She was nervous the whole way through, but was determined to be a dragon. You are right. She was aroused and scared. This reminds me of the unkiss, where Sansa remembers a sexual encounter with Sandor Clegane that did not happen. She must of fantasized it, had a nightmare about it, or both. I see two possible explanations: 1) There is something magical about this scene. We know that glass candals and things like Mormont's ravens can influence emotions. Either Quathe or Silver are boosting her confidence somehow. We know that Dany has a mental link with both. 2) George thinks that with enough foreplay, one's body can overpower fear. Personally, this would never work on me, but I am a man. Maybe it would have worked when I was 13. It could be different for girls, who I suspect are a little more physical. The proof of which would be to find out George's philosophy on the persuasive power of foreplay.
To me the "Yes" of Danny makes sense to me because of many reasons: 1. The silver horse scene 2. She Understand her situation and is accepting it (It wasn't a surprise she knew this was going to happend) 3. She had decided to enjoy the pleasures of life when she can find them even in something she didn't agree to (seen the good in a bad situation) Also, she the scene where she ask for sex advice make sense becase now she wants to fullfil her "roll as wife" because she knows that is her job as Khaleesi is to produce an heir so she wants to do it but also enjoy it as now it has become dull and repetitive (Just because I don't like my job that doesn't I won't try to do a good job) And Preston, Characters are alow to be complex it doesn't need to have mind control every time someone changes their mind
I'm not saying that it wasn't rape, it was rape just that she knew that it was going to happend and she had started to accept it, which is what I think the intention was
@@aengusog3415 Again I'm not Saying it was ok, I'm just saying that in a society were marrying young is normal she just had to accept it, many people had to grow up fast in medieval times, Rob lead an army at 14 Also she says that she always thougth that she was going to marry her brother, so our standard are not their standards It was terrible what happend to her and that's is clear in the books
Stop viewing the medieval wedding between the offspring of magical dragon incest and the mongel stand in with your 21 Century moral view point. Yes it’s wrong but the wedding shouldn’t be happening in the first place please back the fuck up and immerse yourself in the world instead of judging it, it’s wrong but pointing that out means you missed the point
The Ned execution is indeed mostly better in the show except two things: Arya's action where she actually tries to do something in the book, she jumps in the crowd and start slashing people. It was a very good scene. And in the show for whatever reasons it's Pycell that is the orator and it makes little sense in the context whereas in the book it's the High Septon who adresses the crowd and it makes more sense since this is at a place of worship and it puts the point across that all of this is done at a sacred place. It took me many re-watch of the show for me to realise where the execution took place. Whereas if it's a priest that talks, you know where it is.
I can totally see why George thought they were going to do a really good job based on certain scenes he saw. We all loved the first season, primarily due to those great plot points of George's come to live. Who didn't have chills during Arya and Syrio's first meeting? The dialogue is amazing, straight from the book. Then they have Ned watching(not from the book) and the scene has sounds of actual war due to Ned merging his own experiences at war as he is seeing his innocent daughter training in sword fighting. It shows Ned's conflict. It works, it's great. There definitely are scenes in the first few seasons which foreshadow the worst parts to come though. LF's brothel scene, just vulgar for the sake it. Then the bizarre fixation on Pod's penis. JFC.
George's least favourite scene, they asked him that question when Season 1 was out. People keep bringing it up but they ignore when George originally said it. If he was asked that now, providing he's seen all the seasons, he would choose another scene.
he was asked the same question in fire cannot kill a dragon and gave the same answer. it makes a lot more sense when you have more context offered by the book to explain it. one of the first things brought up in the book is an anecdote of why GRRM left working on television. it's of an episode he wrote for the twilight zone that was supposed to climax with two guys fighting on horseback at stonehenge. the television network told him that there was only enough budget for one; he could have horses, or he could have stonehenge. this limit to his imagination was what really gave him his final push towards writing, a medium with no limitations. here's a quote from dan weiss about their pitch meeting with GRRM; "When converting to Judaism, the rabbi's job is not to convince you to convert but to talk you out of it. There was an element of that with George explaining to us that the reason he left television to do full-time writing was to write things you couldn't produce. He said: "My imagination is bigger than 'the horses and Stonehenge'; I want Stonehenge and the horses and another twenty Stonehenges and another million horses." knowing this, i think it absolutely makes sense that he would hate that scene because it's the embodiment of everything he hated about television. it took what was supposed to be a grand, extravagant hunting party, with hundreds of people and horns and trumpets and tents and hounds and turned it into 4 dudes waddling around in the woods. if nothing else, atleast the later seasons were able to match the books from a visual standpoint and be just as grandiose. but the hunting scene is just.. depressing, knowing what it's supposed to look like. it's exactly what made him leave television in the first place.
(Royal) Arranged marriages did not necessary mean the couples had sex, at least not on a regular basis. That’s why kings and often queens had so many affairs and concubines. All they had to do together was to produce an heir and a spare.
@@drewsollars2239 that's a complicated question, I rather enjoyed some scenes like Dany's armies against the Lannisters and the meeting at dragonpit but the season was so rushed too and the characters begun becoming parodies of themselves (like all those dialogues between the 7 warriors going to the north 😩)
Hey now, while there is no guarantee that Ashara would feel anything, Barristan would be younger and essentially Westerosi Captain America at that point. Less accredited Kingsguard have had larger affairs. It also seems like half of them do in some turn.
Did you get the impression that Dany enjoyed her first sex? Since I have never seen it that way. She just did what she was supposed to do and was surprised that is wasn't that horrible.
I wouldn’t say that she enjoyed it. But in the books Khal Drogo does make Daenerys feel comfortable. The only common words he knows are yes & no. So before he touches her anywhere, he asks yes or no and waits for her response. In the books it’s clear Khal Drogo and Daenerys have consensual sex on their wedding day. Now after that it’s a different story.
I recently watched GIldus' episode. And he said in the scene they changed the line from "that's Sansa" to "That's not me". I think all the actors, save for danse and riggs, actually got worse in the show. I'm not blaming them, it was the script and the direction. Poor clarke arguing about the direction of dany, no wonder she seems so disjoined.
I acutully kinda like that scene with dany, Gilidus went into more detail in his video on dany but basicly its the first real choice dany gets and it shows us Drogo isnt just an asshole
How do you not know Bale's work as a child? Empire of the Sun is a Spielberg classic. Henry V with Branagh, stupid Newsies, Little Women, Swing Kids. Lots of them.
I don’t think Maisie Williams’ acting got worse over time, I think the writing for Arya got worse over time as they turned her into a Mary Sue and there wasn’t much Williams could do about it. On top of that, they were really micromanaging the actors’ emotional delivery: like how Lena pleaded with them that Cersei should cry when Tommen dies but they overruled her. They just wanted to have actors staring intently at the camera. That’s what D&D think “acting” is.
That micromanaging of actors sounds like nonsense to be honest. Most actors would get enraged at a director or writer doing a line reading let alone micromanaging their actual acting
I'm pretty sure I heard a lecture by (interview with?) George on RUclips some years ago (I saw it in 2016 or 2017, but it was old back then) where he said that he hated the hunt scene. So is it possible they just cherry-picked an old quote and George was saying that that was his least favourite scene in Season 1 back when Season 1 was the only season? If I'm understanding this video correctly, the implication in this new book is that George's least favourite scene *overall* (i.e., up to Season 8) was something from Season 1, which (if my theory is correct) is somewhat problematic.
Not really, a hunting party being huge is just to make sure they have all the assest, it doen't mean they all have to be together to hunt, it's just a bunch of people reunited on a certain location, every party can go on their way to hunt and then comeback with their preys.
"Well, I mean we know Quaithe has been doing mind control on Daenerys, that's not too much of a surprise" - no, we don't. We know you have such theories, but we don't have proof from GRRM. Preston would be an amazing snake oil salesman.
Yeah, that's my pet peeve with him. I never liked it when he used unproven theories in his 'what you are missing from GoT' series, just confuses things.
Yeah, I love prestons videos and I’ve watched them for years but he makes some really puzzling leaps in logic. He did the same thing with Allar Deem and a few others. If something isn’t explicitly shown or spelled out he goes right into tinfoil.
Guess we are getting news on this channel as nothing is happening with George right? But it's fine it's a good video to put on in the background. Also yeah ealry stuff is good since it had book material to work off of
I agree. Saying Arya and Bran were better actors early relative to the story is wild to me. They prob had more dialogue in the first 2 seasons then they did in the last 4 seasons
@@Dlavelle100 well they were young and some reactions were more fresh and real while the girl who played Arya got so different as she grew up and was very stone faced with the script they were given. Frankly George has lost a lot of steam so he will probably only keep prolonging his book
There was a His Dark Materials trailer for season 2 before this video. Do you and Preston have any interest in reviewing/discussing that show? As a fan of the books, I loved the first season.
The complete absence of tension and foreboding is what I dislike about the shows version of the red wedding so definitely dont agree with Preston's praise for it. The tension is what made it so memorable, luke the tille touches such as Grey Wind snarling at the freys when they arrive because he knows they mean harm, and the feelings of terror you get when rob insists of locking him up before the wedding. All the way through you know somethings not quite right, and that made reading that chapter such a blast.
I love them talking about Drogo and Dany and sexual assault and then Preston is just like she consents because of Quaithe mind control. All I can say is goddamn. I love this man.
@@shannond7437 oh I'm not doubting him, I'm honestly convinced Preston has a thumb on the pulse of ASOIAF no other theorist does, but it just cracks me up
The different here is LF would still have power and control over Sansa if she marries Harry. Harry is beholden to LF due to his marrying him to the supposed heir to Winterfell and Harry needs him financially. Also, LF surely has no intention of allowing Harry to LIVE that long and be married to Sansa for the rest of her life. No way. It might benefit him to allow her to marry Harry in the short term, especially were she to get with child with the heir of the Vale. My questions has always been....would LF allow Sansa to go Harry's bed a maiden...or would he have to have her first(look at how LF is fixated on the idea he took Cat's maidenhead). Would LF want Sansa's child to be his? Sansa being married to Harry means any child she has would be assumed to be his. Though, who knows if Sansa and Harry's marriage ever actually happens. But I do think LF does intend on it - because it does genuinely benefit him to have Sansa be Lady of the Vale(this only happens if SR dies before Harry though but it seems LF is intending on that) or potentially mother to their heir of the Vale. As I say though, of course he has no intention of letting Harry live for too long. That is my assumption.
@Red Team Review George R.R Martin said that years ago When the show was still Pretty much new in A random Interview I saw on youtube When he was asked a Question.. It seems like they just took Random Quotes from the Actors over the years and tossed them in the book and are acting like it's all new...
I had the same reaction as George with the Danny marriage. She's terrified, but the whole way it plays out. Drogo specifically learns how to say no, he waits till she says yes. It's also at night, by a lake, outside. It plays out really believably to me. Basically medieval grooming. Still icky, but not in the same way. It also shows that Drogo isn't purely a brute.
Also on the books, Drogo knows Daenerys its scared so, Drogo massages her, caresses her, tells her sweet things, treats her better and Drogo seduces her slowly until she feels comfortable, it was consensual because Drogo made her feel comfortable and Daenerys felt kindness, so the Daenerys and Drogo wedding was waaay better in the show, idk how could you twist the scene in the books to look like a Drogo didnt seduced her and helped her.
Agreed. The only thing that is not consistent is that Drogo was tender in their first sexual experience then became more brutish when they had relation afterwards. When logically it should be the opposite.
@@CoffinEd13 she 14 years old in the books. In show I believe 16 or 17. In those days the 14 years old was age to marry but life span was very short back then.
Christian Bale also played Jim Hawkins in the best version of Treasure Island I've seen, from the early 1990s, with Charlton Heston as John Silver and Oliver Reed and Christopher Lee as minor pirate characters.
I said this already but....LF has no long term hold on power in the Vale. He is currently Lord Protector as stepfather to Sweet Robin. But this is not a situation that can go on indefinitely. SR is known to be sickly, so even if LF wasn't poisoning him(I am not sure if LF is deliberately using sweet sleep as a poison) but LF clearly expects SR to die. How can he maintain a long term hold on power in the Vale unless he can do it through Sansa? A way to do that is to marry her to Harry, if Harry becomes Lord of the Eyrie, then Sansa is Lady Arryn. If Harry dies and Sansa is mother to the heir, Sansa can be regent in name whilst LF is in reality. At least in his mind. Just because LF is obsessed with Sansa and wants her for himself doesn't mean he is incapable of thinking in practical terms. GRRM even say himself LF blurs his feelings towards Sansa. On one hand he is playing the role of father, marrying her to an heir of a great kingdom....and the other wants her for himself. My feeling has always been LF would never intend for Sansa to be married to Harry for very long. If Sansa has a child, Harry ain't required anymore. The grey area here is whether LF can bear to allow Harry to have Sansa's maidenhead, and not him. What I believe is probably certain is long term LF probably does want to become Sansa's husband...but in the short term it works better if she is Harry's wife first. It's not the same thing as handing her off to Ramsey and hoping for the best.
When you said his least favorite scene involved season 1 Renly I figured it was about how he was changed from a younger version of Robert to someone who doesn't like fighting and hunting. But it was actually just about the lack of extra's in the background? Talk about nitpicking!
Part of it with the Maisie Williams thing (besides just the writing deteriorating over the course of the show -- that much is obvious) is that, all you need to do as a child actor to be exceptional is actually be a competent actor. Maisie Williams could be improving as an actress from her perspective her whole life, and still not stand out quite as much as an adult, from our perspective. Because we're comparing her to other adults now.
I hear what you guys are saying about child actors, but I think that our expectations change as these people get older. Children are not as emotionally sophisticated as adults and the range and subtlety of emotion that we come to expect increases exponentially, and often it seems to outpace the training in many of these young adults.
I don’t think it’s odd at all about Dany being okay with drogo so fast. We’re putting a Dany as a middle class American girl onto this. She’s the blood of the dragon. She figured she’d marry viserys before this. So really what were her expectations? Drogo turning out to be a big softie made it believable for me. We know viserys was already an abusive little brat with no attractiveness
I think you've overlooked something about Littlefinger. His job as a brothel owner is literally him using sex as a transaction, something he talks about at length. I think he let's Harry the heir do what he needs to and still holds emotional possession over her.
I wouldn't be shocked if that still happens among wealthy families now to unite major political or economic dynasties. In europe and America even if it's far less common.
It still happens extremely often in some lite form even with very modern people of Indian descent. There’s a fun Netflix show about it called Indian matchmaking. These marriages tend to last better than regular western love marriages
The comment on this and many other things in this video are trying to use modern norms and modern culture to how people thought in the Middle Ages. Noble daughters were basically used to form alliances, this was their purpose (however bad that may sound to us in the modern world). The same goes about the conversations about Daenerys' 'rape on her wedding night. Until recently, even in the Western world, sex between a married couples didn't need consent (again this is horrific to most people today), it was expected of a wife to have sex with their husband. Obviously that is wrong in our eyes today, but you can't judge a narrative set in the Middle Ages equivalent in a fantasy world as though it was the modern age. It is very, very naïve to do so by the two.
The worst scene in season one might’ve been Baelish giving his stupid monologue about power or whatever while Roz teaches the other sex workers. We just reached the point of obnoxious amounts of noice between them and his voice and I’m like who TF is he talking to?!
Man, I hate that scene with a passion. Last time I watched it was when I showed Game of Thrones to my mother, and when that scene came up, I shut my eyes and put my hands over my ears. I don't know how my mother sat through that. It's... ugh, I hate David and Dan!
@@joshhoffman5233 Exactly, and it didn't do anything character-wise or plot-wise. Not only that, but the Petyr Baelish of the books would NEVER do something like that.
Mary Wilcox you mean just loudly start telling his workers how he plays the game of thrones to inspire their being better sex workers for like five minutes lol?
I knew that book 📚 was going 2 kill King Robb as soon as Greywind was freaking out when they get 2 the Twins and he's locked up. I hate what D&D did 2 Daenerys Targaryen.
There are plenty medieval accounts of boars killing men and horses and literally impaling themselves all the way up a spear and sword to kill their attackers. Hunting boar then and now is immensely dangerous. Many herbivorous animals can be the most vicious due to their size and when they are cornered. The stag or Hart was even more dangerous regularly maiming hunters and horses. It was a large animal with big antlers. In reality hunting was a huge part of training for warfare as it involved a lot of movement and tracking which simulated marching and manuvre, coordinating riders also simulated doing so on a battlefield and killing very angry powerful animals who were cornered and ready to kill you to save themselves was the closest anyone could come to fighting another human being without actually doing it. So it was instrumental. So I appreciate George's point of view on it. However it could easily have been only Renley, Barristan and Robert shown as hunts often took place over miles with multiple relays of dogs, riders and trackers on foot to tire and wear down the animal before cornering it for the hunters to move in either on foot with spears and despatch it. Or do so from horseback with spear or sword. If the hunt was to be done with bows and crossbows it was much less dangerous and women would quite often participate in these hunts. Queen Elizabeth I of England was particularly fond of hunting in this style with a crossbow. The par force chase was more exhilarating and dangerous and was perfect preparation for warfare.
The complaint about the hunting scene wasnt ludicrous. The scene itself was ludicrous that the king and his brother would be out there with a single kingsguard knight. George is all about the details and this wasnt representative of his world which was based directly on war of the roses era England
Also how the fuck Littlefinger "doesn't know" Ramsay at all is goddamn ridiculous. Even if he is a bastard from the north, that is completely, wildly out of character for a man in Littlefingers position with just as many, if not more, informants than the royal spymaster. And if he truly didn't know him somehow, he would get spies to obtain that information or at least pay for references from people who DID know him. The guy goes around flaying his own people, how the showrunners think he wouldn't have a reputation that is easily found out is mind boggling. Just so many errors and unnatural twists in the final seasons that the showrunners had to shoehorn in to make their shitty plot work.
he didnt know Renly would crown himself king, resulting in Baelish visibly panicking because he knows Renly wouldnt want him to have any power when he wins. he didnt know Bran would fall, that kind of just fell into his lap. he didnt know Joff would be evil (as if hes not the entire war is mostly avoided). also Baelish' plan didnt involve her sticking with Ramsay for very long. his plan was to have Stannis take out the Boltons for her
A decent amount of discussion here over aGoT. I'm partial to saying that I prefer S1 over it. Alas, cannot say that about any other season. Wasn't Preston the one who said each season is worse than the one before? I'd agree except for S2 and S3, those should be flipped.
I'd say the writing. I'd give Maisei Williams the benefit of the doubt. Even a truely great actor can only go so far with weak material. Although a lot of her other works looks like lazy writing too so idk, seems like a trend. But in this case, D&D.
I think it’s the writing. Like in earlier scenes with Arya interacting with Tywin, or the “I can be your family” scene with Gendry, Maisie Williams is really good. Toward the end, she is basically an anime superhero. There’s still some scenes where she does a good job with the non-verbal expressions, like when she finds out from Hot Pie that the Starks have Winterfell.
@@maniacmasturbator2411 - show Arya went downhill steadily the moment they shipped her off to Bravos. Her show-only Harrenhall scenes with Tywin were some of the best...and her time with The Hound...plus the first season...all excellent.
Harry the Heir is not a psychopath (which I refuse to believe he didnt know, show-LF can only get SO stupid)... And also I'm pretty sure Preston is convinced HtH is not gonna get to smash, because LF has different plans for him, in the upcoming tourney
The Ned Stark execution was one of the most wtf moments in television. The scene really made GOT my top show until Season 7 and Season 8. Season 5 and 6 had a lot of issues, but there was some good.
It's not too unusual that a child actress is very strong, and for their age it is amazing. But as the become older, they don't fare as well against seasoned adult actors. I will agree, writing and directing plays a part. I have never seen MW's in anything else I thought she really stood out in though...imo. I have only seen her in Doctor Who, and she played a bit part in 2017's Mary Shelley. For which she was just a typical young actress to me. I thought she was noticeable not great in DW, but that could just be me.
Robert wanted to separate from all his guards. I could see a justification for only Robert and Barristan in the scene could be because he was like fuck em, I want to hunt alone. Like in the book when Ned and him ride off alone on their way to kings landing.
In Maisie's defense what was she supposed to do with that character the way she was written the last 4 seasons? Motivations being all over the map, vague and nonsensical would make bringing a character to life difficult I would imagine
Except that arranged marriages were the norm amongst the governing classes for millennia. To see all sex that results from such as rape is stretching it.
But isn’t he kind of banking on Harry being removed from the board shortly after the planned betrothal and wedding? That’s a little different than giving somebody to Ramsey forever.
While it night have been handled clumsily in the book, I always took Drogo's 'seduction' of Danny as an indication that Drogo was meant to be seen as somehow more enlightened than his fellow Dothraki, which goes along with some of the other details given about him like him keeping a manse in Pentos. While Danny's reaction may have been less than realistic, the portrayal of Drogo as purely a barbarian and rapist does some damage to the intended reading of Drogo's character.
Another thing is that Khals have more than one wife, Drogo, a Khal himself, doesn't. Dany is his only wife, and he doesn't even take part in the 'taking' - if you know what I mean, which also sets him apart from other Khals too.
Talisa told Robb she was pregnant while they were alone and she was buck ass naked. But then, at the wedding, she tells him it's a son and she wants to name him Ned after his father. That's why people often get confused when she told Robb she was prego. They kinda had two "revealing" moments.
The idea that Littlefinger gives Sansa away to Ramsey is not the smartest scheming wise, not *just* he wouldn't do that because he is possessive. It's just not a good idea to give away a vital piece in your game. Whereas in the Veil he still has a large amount of control over her and what happens to her, because she is in reach and as lord regent *and* as her fake father (though we will see how long that lasts until the branch Royces pop that lid sky high). Also the Botons as a house and faction have a reputation, it's not just Ramsey. Their banner is flayed man, and they're known as turncoats complicit in violating guest right with the Freys. Giving her to that faction is just dangerous in general. They can't be trusted. Going to the books for a second a question both but more for Preston. So what happens with Sansa if she gets pregnant with Harry the Heir? She is supposed to be married to Tyrion. Might her getting pregnant invalidate the marriage automatically or something without the High Septon? Maybe it makes it easier.
he was expecting Stannis to kill all the Boltons and name Sansa wardeness with himself ruling in truth. its risky and it didnt pay off obviously but it makes a certain amount of sense to de facto declare for the "best commander in Westeros".
I disagree with the portrayal in the show, though I'm not that bothered by it considering it's a realistic reaction, but i also disagree with how George is talking about it. It's been a few years since I read the books but I always saw the Dany and Drogo wedding as her more being resigned to her fate, not some sort of active and wilful participant. She's already basically been a possession of Viserys', dragged around from city to city thinking she could be murdered at any moment. Viserys mistreats her and she even thinks that one day she'll marry him. They also usually marry younger and are told from a young age what their duty is so it's not too crazy to think that she's just going along with it. Then you have the later chapters where she's just being used by Drogo, again solidifying that she's resigned to her fate.
I hated the removal of Jane Westerling and her mother’s scheming from the show.. they opted for some Hollywood style romantic crap which they totally could’ve kept with Jane but they had to have Robb do..that... they just missed that whole chance for some awesome Tywin scheming
Man, that is another change I hate so much. There was no excuse for it then, there's no excuse for it now. 'The North Remembers' was just a throw away line in the show, and the Red Wedding was a meaningless event, whereas in the books, especially in A Dance with Dragons, that line and that tragedy means a lot.
Mary Wilcox one we start talking about season 3 and after it was just downhill. It stays on the rails imo through season 4 because it was still book stuff. But they were jettisoning. Bringing in serious new characters and arcs just wasn’t a thing after season 4. It was all dany, white walkers preceded by two seasons of battle for winterfell... oh and Sam and ser Jorah end up in old cuz books. Sansa and Ramsey ew
@@joshhoffman5233 God, the Sansa and Ramsay... I cannot believe no one told them what a bad idea that was. I hear that Iwan - the actor - said that the final scene with Ramsay and Sansa after the wedding was the worst day of his life. Yeah, I bet, because he probably had no idea what was gonna happen.
Mary Wilcox they were obviously in a bubble. Did you see the footage of the table read they showed of that final episode? It was on that making of thing they showed. They were just sitting there beaming while the actors all looked either nauseas or bewildered. Def no one was around to say “garbage”
@@joshhoffman5233 Yeah, I've seen that. I still can't get that image of the Varys actor tossing the script and crossing his arms out of my head. I wish someone had stood up and said, 'We can't do this, it makes no sense!'
I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed that. Mind control? They haven’t even met at that point yet and she’s using mind control? Like, I love Preston and I’ve watched his stuff for years but he does have a tendency to overthink, make really big leaps of logic, and go right into tinfoil .
Littlefinger would never sell Sansa especially to the Bolton’s. I mean think about it,Sansa is married to Tyrion therefore she can’t Marry again unless she is widowed, Roos Bolton is married to walda fray so he can’t marry. If littlenfinger gave Sansa (the hair to Winterfell and the key to the north) to the boutons they would kill her since they can’t marry her and she has a claim on the north.
I disagree about it being better that the RW was less foreshadowed than in the books. I think that to some extent works for the tv show, but I don't think that would have made the book RW better at all. To blindside you isn't necessarily superior writing. I like the foreboding feeling in the books....you can't guess exactly what will happen....but when you re read you can start to see the hints of exactly what was going to go down. I am baffled a book reader would think the book version would be improved by making the wedding happier.
I gotta disagree here, I really disliked how the show did the first sex scene between Dany and Drogo. I thought it was the worst adapted scene in the first season. In the books Drogo gives her a reason to think he might not be such a bad guy in this first encounter, that she might actually be better off than with her brother. It was a rare early note of tone deafness from the showrunners that they didn't understand this and is would later prove prophetic.
I agree the ned execution was better on the show. One other scene that comes to mind that i thought was much better on screen was the wedding night of Tyrion and Sansa. In the books iirc, Tyrion was naked and erect and they went a lot further before Tyrion stopped. Aside from the fact that it probably would have been impossible to do the same with an underage actress on screen, I think the show handled it very well. Anything graphic around nudity would have really taken away imo. Plus Sophie's performance and Peter's drunken Tyrion was unmatched there!
i feel like we could just pretend danaerys was like 17. i get that historically they didnt wait, if theres mud on the field, you know all that business but its uncomfortable for a modern viewer.
Have to disagree with Preston's point of the show getting people into a false sense of security. The tension and climax in a story is much grater when you bulid to it. Watch Alfred Hitchcock's explanation about a bomb under a table. He says it better than I ever could.
Well in regards to the actors, didn't they say they let the actors define the roles. Child actors does not have the experience to define their own role. We saw trhe same thing in Phantom menace. They need a director to lead them through it, otherwise we get these one dimensional unemotional characters like Arya and Bran.
Disagreed on the Danny wedding scene stuff. Dave & Dan come from a place where they cant picture people having a different socialisation from modern 21st century people. So what would be horrible to us must be horrible to everyone, anywhere from any time period.
This is not true though. The book version of events leading up to the first night make sense. Danny lives in a society where people often dont marry who they choose, especially nobles and especially'er royals. Im deliberately not using gendres here, because making this a "women were oppressed" thing is rubbish: young boys were used the same way in both real medieval Europe and George's Westeros. Only boys could get some experience outside of the wedding bed easier without casting doubts on heir legitimacy.
Anyways, kids were raised expecting that. Danny expected to marry her own brother, whom she definetely (and maybe unconsciously) didnt love, at least not in a "I want to marry him" kinda way. Obviously, she's very young on her wedding night, even by medieval standards. Still, the point is that a young person in that context would believe it to be a normal thing to be married off to a stranger and be expected to have sex with them the first night. That was simply the norms in medieval Europe (and elsewhere too) and Westeros.
Now, does it make sense that she could be brought to enjoy it? Well, if we picture a 21st century 13 year old in that situation, probably not. They'd be horrified. But, to a 13 year old that knows this is viewed as normal by her society and that everyone around her expects it to happen, it makes more sense that her original position is just fear of the unknown and of this foreign stranger. It may help that Drogo is good looking. It certainly helps that he is taking his time and easing her into it. In point of fact, he actively works on dimishing her fears.
Just to clarify: would that work on any girl of 13 with a medieval style upbringing in that situation? Probably not. As they are in short supply, it's rather difficult to test though. Also, very clearly, Im not saying that this sort of behaviour would be in any way excusable or okay in 21st century reality. But it's relevant to not view characters in a complex medieval fantasy novel as having the same mindset as us reality-bound modern humans.
" Dave & Dan come from a place where they cant picture people having a different socialisation from modern 21st century people. So what would be horrible to us must be horrible to everyone, anywhere from any time period."
that's actually a very good argument. But we mostly were discussing how it translates on screen to the average viewer who isn't all into these concepts. Book fans are able to immerse themselves in this word with copious amounts of detail of medieval times but can the audience do this? Maybe. But Dave and Dan need to appeal to a wide audience, most of whom aren't familiar with how they did things in those times.
Pinning this for others to see, thank you!
Also, in the show, Dany still ends up falling in love with Drogo - and falling in love with your rapist makes a lot less sense than agreeing to sleep with your husband in an arranged marriage.
It would have been better to just go the other way entirely in the show, and make Dany less scared about the marriage from the start. That way, her decision to sleep with him would have been even more understandable, and we wouldn't have had the "falling in love with the rapist" weirdness.
@@guyr3618
Good point.
Especially since Dany is a good deal older in the show.
Let's avoid "sheikh" clichés altogether.
Make Drogo always considerate and respectful.
Why not?
It makes Dany's later devotion to him more understandable.
I think the real issue with the Dany/Drogo wedding scene is the lack of behind the scenes transparency: that Martin flat out says they “never discussed it” with him - when something as sensitive as a marital rape scene is something you should at least discuss with a co-writer. I say it was sensitive from experience: I first watched the premiere in a college dorm with my girlfriend and her roommate, both girls had read the books, and they silently tensed up so much during that, I was worried they’d give up on the rest of season one.
Fundamentally, this is literally the FIRST time Benioff and Weiss have given a public explanation for a scene in the first episode they changed to marital rape...A DECADE after it aired, a year after the Season 8 finale?
Even if this was a good reason, which I even think it was, it was given far too late. Their lack of honesty was a warning sign from the start.
What I remember from the book, the present of the horse and the ride at the ceremony made Dany feel free and excited. (Maybe those feelings have something to do with her mysterious childhood) Drogo was honestly more respectful of her feelings than most men in Westeros would be. I found it quite hard for D&D to start their relationship that way.
The problem with Arya and Bran's acting is not that the actors got worse, it's that the characters got bland and one dimensional, you can't give an oscar winning performance from that
Yeh especially bran’s character. I feel like he was told by the writers to play him so off
Yeah you cannot blame Isaac. It's just that dnd made Bran unnecessary emotionless and say all those creepy/weird lines
Was thinking the same thing. I think all things considered, Maisie is actually a very good actor. Not her fault Arya became a weirdo wolverine!
I honestly liked all of the actors. The only ones to blame for this fiasco are D&D. Not the actors, not the directors, not the costume designers, not HBO. Just those two.
To play devil’s advocate, late season Cersei’s material was just as bad as Arya and Bran but Lena is a boss and still managed to turn in great performances. Although obviously not everyone can be Lena Heady.
The Littlefinger decision to sell Sansa to Ramsay made no sense, especially for the character of Petyr Baelish:
I agree with GRRM where he wouldn't just throw Sansa away, and to what end? What does he achieve by selling her off?
Also, you're gonna tell me that Petyr Baelish, a man who prides himself on knowing everything about everyone and how to manipulate them to get what he wants, has NO IDEA about the infamous Bastard of Bolton? I couldn't buy that for a second.
And they don't even explain it after the fact! Sansa asks him why, and he just stares at her. She says "You're either evil, or just stupid" or something. Whatever, the show's finished now. Fuck it.
Its possible Peter wanted to get the vale army and her cousin to rescue sansa from being used this way by the boltons, but yeah, it was badly delivered by d&d.
@@raaf4678 You literally can see he has full control of SR in the show tho. He really didn't need Sansa for that so that excuse is debunked. It was just a cheap way to merge storylines so they wouldnt have to deal with them later.
@@MM-mx2zt thats true, it was very clear in the scene when Peter gave the Bird. But I was just trying to think of something that could be at least a bit of a logical reason for doing that to sansa.
@@baxterbrownentertainment Dude's a human being whose profession and very survival at this stage is to know about everything and everybody. That's... literally his job. He wouldn't be able to outsmart characters like Tyrion, Varys and Tywin if he didn't.
It really really isn't that much of a stretch to believe he would know about the most unsubtle mass murderer in Westeros, Ramsay Bolton. It's so much more illogical that he'd have no prior knowledge of the person he was selling his most prized possession (Sansa) to; even if he somehow had never heard about the Bastard of Bolton, surely he would have done some teeny tiny research about the man he was making a deal with?
It's just basic character writing really; y'know, consistency.
I also dont get how sansa would take back controll somehow after being given to the boltons. Thats what Peter said to sansa before handing her over.
Preston 🤦♂️ You're overthinking George's least favorite scene being the hunting party. He's just being professional and polite by picking something early in the series when they didnt have the budget for something with grandeur. It's clear he resents giving these doofuses his story, but hes not going to shit on them in public. He's a smart and polite guy.
Love you buddy.
Possible, but he does make some further criticisms as well.
I don't know chronology by head, but it may just be the first time he was disappointed. Firsts always count extra. He wanted his world to be brought to life. And from the books, George obviously cares a lot about the extravagance at the court, he spends pages on describing the grandeur of such scenes. So it is plausible that this would jar him as "that's not what I signed on for".
This is for sure the case, I do think it should be considered more when thinking of what people say in interviews
regarding dany and drogo scene:
drogo does seduce dany in the first scene in the books- and changing it showed yet again D&D’s blatant lack of understanding how trauma works. and honestly, it’s such a bad pattern with them that it feels weird to have to spell it out. regardless of if it’s “ok for a 14 year old to consent,” here’s how the text lays it out:
dany is being sold into marriage. she knows she is going to be consummating the marriage. she has probably been THOROUGHLY prepped in what to expect since at least her first period. in these books, u get ur period, u can have sex now. it’s heavily suggested that her brother has done plenty of sexual and nonconsensual things to her body in the past. and she goes into this arranged marriage thinking that somehow it’s going to get even worse for her now.
and then her husband, not only has never lost a battle thus giving her a false sense of security, but isn’t a complete asshole to her. he gives her gifts and tries to ease her into the process.
it does not say that dany is suddenly happy to be in her situation, only that some of the fear leaves, because she realizes hey, maybe this is going to be alright.
after this, yea, we find out dany doesn’t like the sex but i think that first experience, especially to an abuse survivor, would feel like something to strive for. she would have a reason to try to find that sweeter side of drogo. even if that’s messed up it makes sense..
whereas D&D have her treated cruelly off the bat, so like, it makes much LESS sense (at least, to me, as a woman who has been thru SA) that later she’s like “i actually adore this man.” it does a great disservice to drogo, who was supposed to be unique in his culture in other ways too, being somewhat non-traditional.
and this was just the first of so many pointlessly added sexual trauma scenes D&D included because why? because “if i hadn’t been tortured and raped, i would have stayed a little bird all my life” the unrealistic fantasy that trauma is somehow necessary or even beneficial to a characters growth.
standing ovation for this comment ... D&D's horrific rape attitudes have serious consequences for the storytelling throughout the series and this can't be ignored.
‘Fan fic’
Dude was MAD when they made their season 5 changes.
It was all down hill from there.
@Shadow Slayer 🤢🤢🤢
@Shadow Slayer 😁😁😁😁😁😁
I enjoy this side of George.
Telling it like it is.
CHAD!!!!!!!
Oh I think he has a lot more to tell Chad!
@Blake Hunt You betcha.
You related to Ser Hyle Hunt?
@Blake Hunt You will say "Your Grace" when addressing the queen of the north, you lowborn lout.
I do think both Maisie and Isaac were at a disadvantage in later seasons though, since both of their complex, relatable engaging characters became emotionless robotic shadows of their former selves...
So I don’t think the actors necessarily regressed so much, rather, Arya and Bran did...🤔
Regarding the characters acting, I noticed it a lot across the entire show from season 4+, and particularly with Arya, Sansa, Dany, and Bran. For whatever reason, they all seemed to have gone with ‘powerful character = becoming a monotone cold blooded badass’. I have to think that they were instructed by the director
I still cringe a Sansa's scenes with the black dress in the Eyrie looking like an edgelady. Like they built up her character at that moment appearing to become somewhat of player by Littlefinger's side. Nope, she gets sold to the Boltons like a crying innocent girl next season.
Emilia Clarke got progressively worse at acting throughout the series
@@viniciusvyller9458
It's the interplay between weakness and strength that makes a character. Edgy Sansa was a good concept, as long as she's also very vulnerable (yes, it was too sudden and overacted, but could've worked). This could've played extremely well with Ramsay, where he obviously dominated her directly, but she would be trying to manipulate him and lure him to his doom. That'd be tense. And that'd be character.
One could also think of Arya. She's ruined in the show by taking away her struggle of her identity and humanity. Indeed, it's a disaster when we cheer for her killing the Freys. We should be torn by her lack of humanity in it.
Jaime may be the strongest illustration: starting as a pure villain, he is humanized by showing his *weakness* and *vulnerability*. We come to see he resents being nothing but a pawn. It's his struggle between being a pawn to his family, and becoming his own man, that makes him a character.
Instead, the show is 1-dimensional. Sansa is either a damsel or a supreme ruler. Jon is either an idiot or the righteous warrior. Arya is just a killing machine for fan service. Jaime is just a high-level simp most of the time. Littlefinger is invulnerable until he loses his plot armor. And so forth.
With Dany's wedding night in the books, I took it as Dany taking a leap and being brave. We don't see anything after the point where she says yes, for all we know she hated it and was still scared the whole time. It's not really out of character for timid/quiet/shy/scared characters to have moments of instantaneous bravery. Think about Sam when he stabbed the Other for example. And I wouldn't say I was brave at all, but I've done the occasional brave thing where I just tell myself to do something and in that moment just going for it without hesitating anymore. I assumed this is what Dany did on her wedding night - she was scared but didn't want to let Viserys down and wanted to make a good impression on Drogo and said to herself "fuck it, let's do this".
True. Though Preston thinks Sam was being controlled/manipulated by some greater background force when he slayed the Other.
The problem was, Dany was wet. (If I remember right). A scared child shouldn't be. So mind control is probably more likely.
@@sagebias2251 lol maybe. Imagine having mind control abilities and using it to make other people horny haha.
It could be that Drogo was pretty good with his foreplay; it "seemed like hours", after which Dany was "breathless". I think it's possible to be aroused and scared at the same time, lots of people are a bit scared on their first time!
Or a more simple explanation is that she was just naturally wet anyway which is normal and doesn't only happen for arousal.
I'd believe her dragon dreams are from an external influence and they do have the effect of making her more confident but then in the moment it's still her using that confidence and being brave even if she's had some encouragement or a push in a certain direction. I don't believe she is literally being controlled though.
@@sam_c95 I just rreread the scene. I forgot about the foreplay. Although I wonder why this stopped immediately after the wedding. Maybe it was Dothraki wedding ritual or a religious thing. If I had to speculate, he did seem very excited at the idea of Dany conceiving. And got more excited once he got pregnant.
Dany initially told him no, and he persuaded her via foreplay. (I understand this is all messed up) She was nervous the whole way through, but was determined to be a dragon.
You are right. She was aroused and scared. This reminds me of the unkiss, where Sansa remembers a sexual encounter with Sandor Clegane that did not happen. She must of fantasized it, had a nightmare about it, or both.
I see two possible explanations:
1) There is something magical about this scene. We know that glass candals and things like Mormont's ravens can influence emotions. Either Quathe or Silver are boosting her confidence somehow. We know that Dany has a mental link with both.
2) George thinks that with enough foreplay, one's body can overpower fear. Personally, this would never work on me, but I am a man. Maybe it would have worked when I was 13. It could be different for girls, who I suspect are a little more physical.
The proof of which would be to find out George's philosophy on the persuasive power of foreplay.
To me the "Yes" of Danny makes sense to me because of many reasons:
1. The silver horse scene
2. She Understand her situation and is accepting it (It wasn't a surprise she knew this was going to happend)
3. She had decided to enjoy the pleasures of life when she can find them even in something she didn't agree to (seen the good in a bad situation)
Also, she the scene where she ask for sex advice make sense becase now she wants to fullfil her "roll as wife" because she knows that is her job as Khaleesi is to produce an heir so she wants to do it but also enjoy it as now it has become dull and repetitive (Just because I don't like my job that doesn't I won't try to do a good job)
And Preston, Characters are alow to be complex it doesn't need to have mind control every time someone changes their mind
I'm not saying that it wasn't rape, it was rape just that she knew that it was going to happend and she had started to accept it, which is what I think the intention was
Stop she was a 13 year old girl who didn’t have a consent on what to say and ended up with Stockholm syndrome 💀
@@aengusog3415 Again I'm not Saying it was ok, I'm just saying that in a society were marrying young is normal she just had to accept it, many people had to grow up fast in medieval times, Rob lead an army at 14
Also she says that she always thougth that she was going to marry her brother, so our standard are not their standards
It was terrible what happend to her and that's is clear in the books
Stop viewing the medieval wedding between the offspring of magical dragon incest and the mongel stand in with your 21 Century moral view point.
Yes it’s wrong but the wedding shouldn’t be happening in the first place please back the fuck up and immerse yourself in the world instead of judging it, it’s wrong but pointing that out means you missed the point
@@brianlowe904 no pointing it out is literally the point. We’re supposed to criticize it.
The Ned execution is indeed mostly better in the show except two things: Arya's action where she actually tries to do something in the book, she jumps in the crowd and start slashing people. It was a very good scene. And in the show for whatever reasons it's Pycell that is the orator and it makes little sense in the context whereas in the book it's the High Septon who adresses the crowd and it makes more sense since this is at a place of worship and it puts the point across that all of this is done at a sacred place. It took me many re-watch of the show for me to realise where the execution took place. Whereas if it's a priest that talks, you know where it is.
I can totally see why George thought they were going to do a really good job based on certain scenes he saw. We all loved the first season, primarily due to those great plot points of George's come to live. Who didn't have chills during Arya and Syrio's first meeting? The dialogue is amazing, straight from the book. Then they have Ned watching(not from the book) and the scene has sounds of actual war due to Ned merging his own experiences at war as he is seeing his innocent daughter training in sword fighting. It shows Ned's conflict. It works, it's great. There definitely are scenes in the first few seasons which foreshadow the worst parts to come though. LF's brothel scene, just vulgar for the sake it. Then the bizarre fixation on Pod's penis. JFC.
George's least favourite scene, they asked him that question when Season 1 was out. People keep bringing it up but they ignore when George originally said it.
If he was asked that now, providing he's seen all the seasons, he would choose another scene.
he was asked the same question in fire cannot kill a dragon and gave the same answer. it makes a lot more sense when you have more context offered by the book to explain it.
one of the first things brought up in the book is an anecdote of why GRRM left working on television. it's of an episode he wrote for the twilight zone that was supposed to climax with two guys fighting on horseback at stonehenge. the television network told him that there was only enough budget for one; he could have horses, or he could have stonehenge. this limit to his imagination was what really gave him his final push towards writing, a medium with no limitations.
here's a quote from dan weiss about their pitch meeting with GRRM;
"When converting to Judaism, the rabbi's job is not to convince you to convert but to talk you out of it. There was an element of that with George explaining to us that the reason he left television to do full-time writing was to write things you couldn't produce. He said: "My imagination is bigger than 'the horses and Stonehenge'; I want Stonehenge and the horses and another twenty Stonehenges and another million horses."
knowing this, i think it absolutely makes sense that he would hate that scene because it's the embodiment of everything he hated about television. it took what was supposed to be a grand, extravagant hunting party, with hundreds of people and horns and trumpets and tents and hounds and turned it into 4 dudes waddling around in the woods. if nothing else, atleast the later seasons were able to
match the books from a visual standpoint and be just as grandiose. but the hunting scene is just.. depressing, knowing what it's supposed to look like. it's exactly what made him leave television in the first place.
Natalie Portman is another example of a great child actor becoming a great adult actor.
Greatest performance by a child IMO
The Professional was amazing
@@axelarroyo3286 Doesn't "adult actor" generally mean something else?
@@daddyleon God how I wish Natalie Portman became an adult actor lol
@@lovablesnowman lol, well, with AI & deep fakes, you might not have to wait long...
(Royal) Arranged marriages did not necessary mean the couples had sex, at least not on a regular basis. That’s why kings and often queens had so many affairs and concubines. All they had to do together was to produce an heir and a spare.
I saw “this scene” and automatically read “season 8” lol
Season 7 was every bit as bad as 8, if not worse.
Me too. But also I saw "George RR Martin" and read "everyone, ever"
@@drewsollars2239 that's a complicated question, I rather enjoyed some scenes like Dany's armies against the Lannisters and the meeting at dragonpit but the season was so rushed too and the characters begun becoming parodies of themselves (like all those dialogues between the 7 warriors going to the north 😩)
Elijah Wood is an example of a great child and adult actor. He also was able to adapt the child innocence for Frodo amazingly
Empire Of The Sun is exceptional and exceptionally awesome!
and we are back
back we are
@@OfficialRedTeamReview forever pls
@@OfficialRedTeamReview i really appreciate that title
i almost had a heart attack when i read new book in my notification
Baba Booey!
We are black
Hey now, while there is no guarantee that Ashara would feel anything, Barristan would be younger and essentially Westerosi Captain America at that point. Less accredited Kingsguard have had larger affairs. It also seems like half of them do in some turn.
Did you get the impression that Dany enjoyed her first sex? Since I have never seen it that way. She just did what she was supposed to do and was surprised that is wasn't that horrible.
I wouldn’t say that she enjoyed it. But in the books Khal Drogo does make Daenerys feel comfortable. The only common words he knows are yes & no. So before he touches her anywhere, he asks yes or no and waits for her response. In the books it’s clear Khal Drogo and Daenerys have consensual sex on their wedding day. Now after that it’s a different story.
I recently watched GIldus' episode. And he said in the scene they changed the line from "that's Sansa" to "That's not me". I think all the actors, save for danse and riggs, actually got worse in the show. I'm not blaming them, it was the script and the direction. Poor clarke arguing about the direction of dany, no wonder she seems so disjoined.
“That’s not me” was by far some of the best writing from D&D.
I acutully kinda like that scene with dany, Gilidus went into more detail in his video on dany but basicly its the first real choice dany gets and it shows us Drogo isnt just an asshole
How do you not know Bale's work as a child? Empire of the Sun is a Spielberg classic.
Henry V with Branagh, stupid Newsies, Little Women, Swing Kids. Lots of them.
I forgot about Henry v
I dont think it's really maisie's fault. Arya in later seasons had no depth and nothing to play off of besides "badass assassin girl", you know?
I don’t think Maisie Williams’ acting got worse over time, I think the writing for Arya got worse over time as they turned her into a Mary Sue and there wasn’t much Williams could do about it. On top of that, they were really micromanaging the actors’ emotional delivery: like how Lena pleaded with them that Cersei should cry when Tommen dies but they overruled her. They just wanted to have actors staring intently at the camera. That’s what D&D think “acting” is.
That micromanaging of actors sounds like nonsense to be honest. Most actors would get enraged at a director or writer doing a line reading let alone micromanaging their actual acting
@@lovablesnowman This isn't a theory, we have cited quotes of the actors stating just how much they were micromanaged by Benioff & Weiss.
Talissa tells Rob the baby is gonna be called Ned
I'm pretty sure I heard a lecture by (interview with?) George on RUclips some years ago (I saw it in 2016 or 2017, but it was old back then) where he said that he hated the hunt scene. So is it possible they just cherry-picked an old quote and George was saying that that was his least favourite scene in Season 1 back when Season 1 was the only season? If I'm understanding this video correctly, the implication in this new book is that George's least favourite scene *overall* (i.e., up to Season 8) was something from Season 1, which (if my theory is correct) is somewhat problematic.
Lets be real we'll be in the next global pandemic before TWOW gets published...
No doubt
Y
Assume much
Only if George isn't already dead by then
Not really, a hunting party being huge is just to make sure they have all the assest, it doen't mean they all have to be together to hunt, it's just a bunch of people reunited on a certain location, every party can go on their way to hunt and then comeback with their preys.
Yeah.
You could see them setting out en masse and then Robert determinedly riding ahead of his guards.
"Well, I mean we know Quaithe has been doing mind control on Daenerys, that's not too much of a surprise" - no, we don't. We know you have such theories, but we don't have proof from GRRM. Preston would be an amazing snake oil salesman.
Yeah, that's my pet peeve with him. I never liked it when he used unproven theories in his 'what you are missing from GoT' series, just confuses things.
@@eb7446 Exactly. But he has a calming voice so I play his videos anyway, to help me fall asleep :D
Yeah, I love prestons videos and I’ve watched them for years but he makes some really puzzling leaps in logic. He did the same thing with Allar Deem and a few others. If something isn’t explicitly shown or spelled out he goes right into tinfoil.
Guess we are getting news on this channel as nothing is happening with George right?
But it's fine it's a good video to put on in the background.
Also yeah ealry stuff is good since it had book material to work off of
I agree. Saying Arya and Bran were better actors early relative to the story is wild to me. They prob had more dialogue in the first 2 seasons then they did in the last 4 seasons
@@Dlavelle100 well they were young and some reactions were more fresh and real while the girl who played Arya got so different as she grew up and was very stone faced with the script they were given.
Frankly George has lost a lot of steam so he will probably only keep prolonging his book
There was a His Dark Materials trailer for season 2 before this video. Do you and Preston have any interest in reviewing/discussing that show? As a fan of the books, I loved the first season.
The complete absence of tension and foreboding is what I dislike about the shows version of the red wedding so definitely dont agree with Preston's praise for it. The tension is what made it so memorable, luke the tille touches such as Grey Wind snarling at the freys when they arrive because he knows they mean harm, and the feelings of terror you get when rob insists of locking him up before the wedding. All the way through you know somethings not quite right, and that made reading that chapter such a blast.
I love them talking about Drogo and Dany and sexual assault and then Preston is just like she consents because of Quaithe mind control. All I can say is goddamn. I love this man.
Well she does become more powerful with mounts. It’s literally there! 👍
@@shannond7437 oh I'm not doubting him, I'm honestly convinced Preston has a thumb on the pulse of ASOIAF no other theorist does, but it just cracks me up
@@noahwen-li I was teasing, but it is true!
I think GRRM’S comment that LF wouldn’t hand over Sansa, is telling for what will happen with Harry the Heir. Clearly, that’s not gonna work out.
The different here is LF would still have power and control over Sansa if she marries Harry. Harry is beholden to LF due to his marrying him to the supposed heir to Winterfell and Harry needs him financially. Also, LF surely has no intention of allowing Harry to LIVE that long and be married to Sansa for the rest of her life. No way. It might benefit him to allow her to marry Harry in the short term, especially were she to get with child with the heir of the Vale.
My questions has always been....would LF allow Sansa to go Harry's bed a maiden...or would he have to have her first(look at how LF is fixated on the idea he took Cat's maidenhead). Would LF want Sansa's child to be his? Sansa being married to Harry means any child she has would be assumed to be his.
Though, who knows if Sansa and Harry's marriage ever actually happens. But I do think LF does intend on it - because it does genuinely benefit him to have Sansa be Lady of the Vale(this only happens if SR dies before Harry though but it seems LF is intending on that) or potentially mother to their heir of the Vale. As I say though, of course he has no intention of letting Harry live for too long. That is my assumption.
@@eb7446 I think the only children he wants Sansa to have are little Littlefingers
@Red Team Review George R.R Martin said that years ago When the show was still Pretty much new in A random Interview I saw on youtube When he was asked a Question.. It seems like they just took Random Quotes from the Actors over the years and tossed them in the book and are acting like it's all new...
I had the same reaction as George with the Danny marriage. She's terrified, but the whole way it plays out. Drogo specifically learns how to say no, he waits till she says yes. It's also at night, by a lake, outside. It plays out really believably to me. Basically medieval grooming. Still icky, but not in the same way. It also shows that Drogo isn't purely a brute.
Also on the books, Drogo knows Daenerys its scared so, Drogo massages her, caresses her, tells her sweet things, treats her better and Drogo seduces her slowly until she feels comfortable, it was consensual because Drogo made her feel comfortable and Daenerys felt kindness, so the Daenerys and Drogo wedding was waaay better in the show, idk how could you twist the scene in the books to look like a Drogo didnt seduced her and helped her.
Agreed. The only thing that is not consistent is that Drogo was tender in their first sexual experience then became more brutish when they had relation afterwards. When logically it should be the opposite.
I still wouldn‘t call it consensual, bc in the books shes like twelve at the time, so yeah
@@CoffinEd13 Still consensual for that culture.
@@CoffinEd13 she 14 years old in the books. In show I believe 16 or 17. In those days the 14 years old was age to marry but life span was very short back then.
I would like an extended podcast of you guys think was done better in the show. whether it be plot points or just individual scenes
Christian Bale also played Jim Hawkins in the best version of Treasure Island I've seen, from the early 1990s, with Charlton Heston as John Silver and Oliver Reed and Christopher Lee as minor pirate characters.
Holy hell, that sounds incredible! I can’t believe I’ve never heard of that version before. I know what I’m watching tonight.
I said this already but....LF has no long term hold on power in the Vale. He is currently Lord Protector as stepfather to Sweet Robin. But this is not a situation that can go on indefinitely. SR is known to be sickly, so even if LF wasn't poisoning him(I am not sure if LF is deliberately using sweet sleep as a poison) but LF clearly expects SR to die. How can he maintain a long term hold on power in the Vale unless he can do it through Sansa? A way to do that is to marry her to Harry, if Harry becomes Lord of the Eyrie, then Sansa is Lady Arryn. If Harry dies and Sansa is mother to the heir, Sansa can be regent in name whilst LF is in reality. At least in his mind.
Just because LF is obsessed with Sansa and wants her for himself doesn't mean he is incapable of thinking in practical terms. GRRM even say himself LF blurs his feelings towards Sansa. On one hand he is playing the role of father, marrying her to an heir of a great kingdom....and the other wants her for himself.
My feeling has always been LF would never intend for Sansa to be married to Harry for very long. If Sansa has a child, Harry ain't required anymore. The grey area here is whether LF can bear to allow Harry to have Sansa's maidenhead, and not him. What I believe is probably certain is long term LF probably does want to become Sansa's husband...but in the short term it works better if she is Harry's wife first.
It's not the same thing as handing her off to Ramsey and hoping for the best.
When you said his least favorite scene involved season 1 Renly I figured it was about how he was changed from a younger version of Robert to someone who doesn't like fighting and hunting. But it was actually just about the lack of extra's in the background? Talk about nitpicking!
21:49 this is based on an interview George gave after the second season.
Part of it with the Maisie Williams thing (besides just the writing deteriorating over the course of the show -- that much is obvious) is that, all you need to do as a child actor to be exceptional is actually be a competent actor. Maisie Williams could be improving as an actress from her perspective her whole life, and still not stand out quite as much as an adult, from our perspective. Because we're comparing her to other adults now.
I see the check cleared from D&D this last week, and a nice bonus for Preston too this time.
Finn was also in the music video for Danny Don't You Know by Ninja Sex Party, and it's super powerful
I hear what you guys are saying about child actors, but I think that our expectations change as these people get older. Children are not as emotionally sophisticated as adults and the range and subtlety of emotion that we come to expect increases exponentially, and often it seems to outpace the training in many of these young adults.
I don’t think it’s odd at all about Dany being okay with drogo so fast. We’re putting a Dany as a middle class American girl onto this. She’s the blood of the dragon. She figured she’d marry viserys before this. So really what were her expectations? Drogo turning out to be a big softie made it believable for me. We know viserys was already an abusive little brat with no attractiveness
The problem is that the critics have 21st century minds and refuse to put their minds into a medieval mind-set.
Mary Wilcox pretty much!
I think you've overlooked something about Littlefinger.
His job as a brothel owner is literally him using sex as a transaction, something he talks about at length.
I think he let's Harry the heir do what he needs to and still holds emotional possession over her.
'Arranged' marriages is how marriage worked until fairly recently times, marriages were arranged by parents in the Western world.
I wouldn't be shocked if that still happens among wealthy families now to unite major political or economic dynasties. In europe and America even if it's far less common.
Child marriage is still prevalent in America even to this day. Only a few states have banned it.
It still happens extremely often in some lite form even with very modern people of Indian descent. There’s a fun Netflix show about it called Indian matchmaking. These marriages tend to last better than regular western love marriages
The comment on this and many other things in this video are trying to use modern norms and modern culture to how people thought in the Middle Ages. Noble daughters were basically used to form alliances, this was their purpose (however bad that may sound to us in the modern world).
The same goes about the conversations about Daenerys' 'rape on her wedding night. Until recently, even in the Western world, sex between a married couples didn't need consent (again this is horrific to most people today), it was expected of a wife to have sex with their husband. Obviously that is wrong in our eyes today, but you can't judge a narrative set in the Middle Ages equivalent in a fantasy world as though it was the modern age. It is very, very naïve to do so by the two.
Talk to Preston about how fucking dumb it was to think that GoT was a Sci-Fi story...Ask him about that series of videos.
The worst scene in season one might’ve been Baelish giving his stupid monologue about power or whatever while Roz teaches the other sex workers. We just reached the point of obnoxious amounts of noice between them and his voice and I’m like who TF is he talking to?!
Man, I hate that scene with a passion. Last time I watched it was when I showed Game of Thrones to my mother, and when that scene came up, I shut my eyes and put my hands over my ears. I don't know how my mother sat through that. It's... ugh, I hate David and Dan!
Mary Wilcox Lol it was bizarre. Gratuitous without being enjoyable. Expositional without information. And just very loud and painful to the ears
@@joshhoffman5233 Exactly, and it didn't do anything character-wise or plot-wise. Not only that, but the Petyr Baelish of the books would NEVER do something like that.
Mary Wilcox you mean just loudly start telling his workers how he plays the game of thrones to inspire their being better sex workers for like five minutes lol?
@@joshhoffman5233 Yes! It sickens me that D&D thought that was a good idea!
I'm so glad you talked about Dany's wedding night, I always felt the same about the show version but felt like no one else agreed.
I knew that book 📚 was going 2 kill King Robb as soon as Greywind was freaking out when they get 2 the Twins and he's locked up. I hate what D&D did 2 Daenerys Targaryen.
There are plenty medieval accounts of boars killing men and horses and literally impaling themselves all the way up a spear and sword to kill their attackers. Hunting boar then and now is immensely dangerous. Many herbivorous animals can be the most vicious due to their size and when they are cornered. The stag or Hart was even more dangerous regularly maiming hunters and horses. It was a large animal with big antlers. In reality hunting was a huge part of training for warfare as it involved a lot of movement and tracking which simulated marching and manuvre, coordinating riders also simulated doing so on a battlefield and killing very angry powerful animals who were cornered and ready to kill you to save themselves was the closest anyone could come to fighting another human being without actually doing it. So it was instrumental. So I appreciate George's point of view on it. However it could easily have been only Renley, Barristan and Robert shown as hunts often took place over miles with multiple relays of dogs, riders and trackers on foot to tire and wear down the animal before cornering it for the hunters to move in either on foot with spears and despatch it. Or do so from horseback with spear or sword. If the hunt was to be done with bows and crossbows it was much less dangerous and women would quite often participate in these hunts. Queen Elizabeth I of England was particularly fond of hunting in this style with a crossbow. The par force chase was more exhilarating and dangerous and was perfect preparation for warfare.
The complaint about the hunting scene wasnt ludicrous. The scene itself was ludicrous that the king and his brother would be out there with a single kingsguard knight. George is all about the details and this wasnt representative of his world which was based directly on war of the roses era England
Also how the fuck Littlefinger "doesn't know" Ramsay at all is goddamn ridiculous. Even if he is a bastard from the north, that is completely, wildly out of character for a man in Littlefingers position with just as many, if not more, informants than the royal spymaster. And if he truly didn't know him somehow, he would get spies to obtain that information or at least pay for references from people who DID know him. The guy goes around flaying his own people, how the showrunners think he wouldn't have a reputation that is easily found out is mind boggling. Just so many errors and unnatural twists in the final seasons that the showrunners had to shoehorn in to make their shitty plot work.
he didnt know Renly would crown himself king, resulting in Baelish visibly panicking because he knows Renly wouldnt want him to have any power when he wins. he didnt know Bran would fall, that kind of just fell into his lap. he didnt know Joff would be evil (as if hes not the entire war is mostly avoided).
also Baelish' plan didnt involve her sticking with Ramsay for very long. his plan was to have Stannis take out the Boltons for her
Christian Bale was also great as Jim Hawkins in Treasure Island, alongside Charlton Heston
A decent amount of discussion here over aGoT. I'm partial to saying that I prefer S1 over it. Alas, cannot say that about any other season. Wasn't Preston the one who said each season is worse than the one before? I'd agree except for S2 and S3, those should be flipped.
Christian Bale was a dead squireboy after the battle of Agrincourt in "Henry V" (1989) w/ Kenneth Branagh
how do you get “mind control from quaithe”??? way outta left field
I’m so glad I’m not the only one who was bugged by that
Was it Arya's acting that got worse or was it the writing for her character that got worse?
I'd say the writing. I'd give Maisei Williams the benefit of the doubt. Even a truely great actor can only go so far with weak material. Although a lot of her other works looks like lazy writing too so idk, seems like a trend. But in this case, D&D.
Both to be fair
I think it’s the writing. Like in earlier scenes with Arya interacting with Tywin, or the “I can be your family” scene with Gendry, Maisie Williams is really good. Toward the end, she is basically an anime superhero. There’s still some scenes where she does a good job with the non-verbal expressions, like when she finds out from Hot Pie that the Starks have Winterfell.
Yes!
@@maniacmasturbator2411 - show Arya went downhill steadily the moment they shipped her off to Bravos. Her show-only Harrenhall scenes with Tywin were some of the best...and her time with The Hound...plus the first season...all excellent.
The point of a large hunting party is to flush out the boar it in one of the Aria chapters talking to Hot pie
Harry the Heir is not a psychopath (which I refuse to believe he didnt know, show-LF can only get SO stupid)... And also I'm pretty sure Preston is convinced HtH is not gonna get to smash, because LF has different plans for him, in the upcoming tourney
The Ned Stark execution was one of the most wtf moments in television. The scene really made GOT my top show until Season 7 and Season 8. Season 5 and 6 had a lot of issues, but there was some good.
It's not too unusual that a child actress is very strong, and for their age it is amazing. But as the become older, they don't fare as well against seasoned adult actors. I will agree, writing and directing plays a part. I have never seen MW's in anything else I thought she really stood out in though...imo. I have only seen her in Doctor Who, and she played a bit part in 2017's Mary Shelley. For which she was just a typical young actress to me. I thought she was noticeable not great in DW, but that could just be me.
I thought Bran actually got much better as an actor during the show
I agree! I think it was difficult for the actor to play a character that is pretty stupid.
Robert wanted to separate from all his guards. I could see a justification for only Robert and Barristan in the scene could be because he was like fuck em, I want to hunt alone. Like in the book when Ned and him ride off alone on their way to kings landing.
Carbuncle, will really all video titles and thumbnails from now on be b*zzfeed tier ?
In Maisie's defense what was she supposed to do with that character the way she was written the last 4 seasons? Motivations being all over the map, vague and nonsensical would make bringing a character to life difficult I would imagine
Except that arranged marriages were the norm amongst the governing classes for millennia.
To see all sex that results from such as rape is stretching it.
Actually this point has been made better elsewhere already. Oh well there is some value in brevity.
But isn’t he kind of banking on Harry being removed from the board shortly after the planned betrothal and wedding? That’s a little different than giving somebody to Ramsey forever.
Isn't the first Drogo and Danny sex scene one of those "she loses her fear via supernatural dreams" scenarios?
While it night have been handled clumsily in the book, I always took Drogo's 'seduction' of Danny as an indication that Drogo was meant to be seen as somehow more enlightened than his fellow Dothraki, which goes along with some of the other details given about him like him keeping a manse in Pentos. While Danny's reaction may have been less than realistic, the portrayal of Drogo as purely a barbarian and rapist does some damage to the intended reading of Drogo's character.
Another thing is that Khals have more than one wife, Drogo, a Khal himself, doesn't. Dany is his only wife, and he doesn't even take part in the 'taking' - if you know what I mean, which also sets him apart from other Khals too.
Talisa told Robb she was pregnant while they were alone and she was buck ass naked. But then, at the wedding, she tells him it's a son and she wants to name him Ned after his father. That's why people often get confused when she told Robb she was prego. They kinda had two "revealing" moments.
The idea that Littlefinger gives Sansa away to Ramsey is not the smartest scheming wise, not *just* he wouldn't do that because he is possessive. It's just not a good idea to give away a vital piece in your game. Whereas in the Veil he still has a large amount of control over her and what happens to her, because she is in reach and as lord regent *and* as her fake father (though we will see how long that lasts until the branch Royces pop that lid sky high).
Also the Botons as a house and faction have a reputation, it's not just Ramsey. Their banner is flayed man, and they're known as turncoats complicit in violating guest right with the Freys. Giving her to that faction is just dangerous in general. They can't be trusted.
Going to the books for a second a question both but more for Preston. So what happens with Sansa if she gets pregnant with Harry the Heir? She is supposed to be married to Tyrion. Might her getting pregnant invalidate the marriage automatically or something without the High Septon? Maybe it makes it easier.
he was expecting Stannis to kill all the Boltons and name Sansa wardeness with himself ruling in truth. its risky and it didnt pay off obviously but it makes a certain amount of sense to de facto declare for the "best commander in Westeros".
3:36 Too bad they, you know, forgot that scene...
I disagree with the portrayal in the show, though I'm not that bothered by it considering it's a realistic reaction, but i also disagree with how George is talking about it. It's been a few years since I read the books but I always saw the Dany and Drogo wedding as her more being resigned to her fate, not some sort of active and wilful participant. She's already basically been a possession of Viserys', dragged around from city to city thinking she could be murdered at any moment. Viserys mistreats her and she even thinks that one day she'll marry him. They also usually marry younger and are told from a young age what their duty is so it's not too crazy to think that she's just going along with it. Then you have the later chapters where she's just being used by Drogo, again solidifying that she's resigned to her fate.
I hated the removal of Jane Westerling and her mother’s scheming from the show.. they opted for some Hollywood style romantic crap which they totally could’ve kept with Jane but they had to have Robb do..that... they just missed that whole chance for some awesome Tywin scheming
Man, that is another change I hate so much. There was no excuse for it then, there's no excuse for it now. 'The North Remembers' was just a throw away line in the show, and the Red Wedding was a meaningless event, whereas in the books, especially in A Dance with Dragons, that line and that tragedy means a lot.
Mary Wilcox one we start talking about season 3 and after it was just downhill. It stays on the rails imo through season 4 because it was still book stuff. But they were jettisoning. Bringing in serious new characters and arcs just wasn’t a thing after season 4. It was all dany, white walkers preceded by two seasons of battle for winterfell... oh and Sam and ser Jorah end up in old cuz books. Sansa and Ramsey ew
@@joshhoffman5233 God, the Sansa and Ramsay... I cannot believe no one told them what a bad idea that was. I hear that Iwan - the actor - said that the final scene with Ramsay and Sansa after the wedding was the worst day of his life. Yeah, I bet, because he probably had no idea what was gonna happen.
Mary Wilcox they were obviously in a bubble. Did you see the footage of the table read they showed of that final episode? It was on that making of thing they showed. They were just sitting there beaming while the actors all looked either nauseas or bewildered. Def no one was around to say “garbage”
@@joshhoffman5233 Yeah, I've seen that. I still can't get that image of the Varys actor tossing the script and crossing his arms out of my head. I wish someone had stood up and said, 'We can't do this, it makes no sense!'
Red circles and arrows all over this video title.
“Well we know Dany is getting mind controlled”. Not just getting dreams or suggestions from Quaathe, but full on mind control?
I’m so glad I wasn’t the only one who noticed that. Mind control? They haven’t even met at that point yet and she’s using mind control? Like, I love Preston and I’ve watched his stuff for years but he does have a tendency to overthink, make really big leaps of logic, and go right into tinfoil .
Littlefinger would never sell Sansa especially to the Bolton’s.
I mean think about it,Sansa is married to Tyrion therefore she can’t Marry again unless she is widowed, Roos Bolton is married to walda fray so he can’t marry.
If littlenfinger gave Sansa (the hair to Winterfell and the key to the north) to the boutons they would kill her since they can’t marry her and she has a claim on the north.
Is there an uncut version of this somewhere?
that Stranger Things kid seems to be typecast
Preston “I have to disagree with everything” Jacobs
I disagree about it being better that the RW was less foreshadowed than in the books. I think that to some extent works for the tv show, but I don't think that would have made the book RW better at all. To blindside you isn't necessarily superior writing. I like the foreboding feeling in the books....you can't guess exactly what will happen....but when you re read you can start to see the hints of exactly what was going to go down. I am baffled a book reader would think the book version would be improved by making the wedding happier.
6:27 empire of the sun is a brilliant movie
Quaithe isn't controlling Dany. She's not real. She's our hint that Dany is fucking nuts with Targaryen maddness.
Well ... I didn’t expect THAT
Jodie Foster and Natalie Portman are another example of excellent child actors that grow into excellent adult actors
Baelish giving sansa to Ramsey is stupid but the plan was for Stannis to soon take winterfell so i can kinda forgive it to try and enjoy season 5!
thats risky and bold but its not stupid. no one could have known that a blizzard would hit and half of Stannis army would be lost
I gotta disagree here, I really disliked how the show did the first sex scene between Dany and Drogo. I thought it was the worst adapted scene in the first season. In the books Drogo gives her a reason to think he might not be such a bad guy in this first encounter, that she might actually be better off than with her brother.
It was a rare early note of tone deafness from the showrunners that they didn't understand this and is would later prove prophetic.
I agree the ned execution was better on the show. One other scene that comes to mind that i thought was much better on screen was the wedding night of Tyrion and Sansa. In the books iirc, Tyrion was naked and erect and they went a lot further before Tyrion stopped. Aside from the fact that it probably would have been impossible to do the same with an underage actress on screen, I think the show handled it very well. Anything graphic around nudity would have really taken away imo. Plus Sophie's performance and Peter's drunken Tyrion was unmatched there!
i feel like we could just pretend danaerys was like 17. i get that historically they didnt wait, if theres mud on the field, you know all that business but its uncomfortable for a modern viewer.
It's gonna be the King's Hunt isn't it? He talked about it all the time in interview.
Did he actually?
Have to disagree with Preston's point of the show getting people into a false sense of security. The tension and climax in a story is much grater when you bulid to it. Watch Alfred Hitchcock's explanation about a bomb under a table. He says it better than I ever could.
Well in regards to the actors, didn't they say they let the actors define the roles. Child actors does not have the experience to define their own role. We saw trhe same thing in Phantom menace. They need a director to lead them through it, otherwise we get these one dimensional unemotional characters like Arya and Bran.
Those few good scenes were really more the exception than the norm. Just seasons 1 to 4 had a bunch of pointless scenes.