I love this review/analysis. What I find funny though is that most of the criticisms, wastes of ammo, lack of proper logistics, inneficient strategies, people in power not seeming to know what is going on with militaries, consdiering the way the real works I actually consider all of these things 100% realistic to how a large governmental operation would work.
Glad you like the reivew/analysis! And we pretty much agree with you that the real world also works inefficiently! I think Dune's realism in this regard is one of the big reasons it's considered a classic!
also when you say "fremen are not a tech people" they actually are! fremen are just extremely well hidden but its stated in the books that they have underground factories and hence can make their own weapons and stilsuits!
Underground factories would concern me as they’d be obvious targets for the Harkonnen. The Harkonnen didn’t hit the big Fremen gathering though, so the Harkonnen’s capabilities are questionable!
There is a plot that is completely left out of the movies: Chani is the daughter of the IMPERIAL doctor Liet Kynes who is killed by the Sardaukar for helping Paul and Jessica. So it is possible that she has outside information because of her father - mother in the movie. The stories of the Bene Gesserit were mostly known by the Great Houses as the Bene Gesserit were married to everybody. Back to Chani, however, in the books she is not at all against the faith and in fact she is one of the earlier supporter. No mention of doubting the prophecy.
6:44 I mean, the planning took months, but the act itself was done in a single night. So yes, she could say it took only a night for House Atreides to fall because that's how the war itself happened. No, she's not naive; she understands the difference between preparation and exection. It's like preparing a cake: you don't count how long it took to prepare it when you're talking about how long it took to eat it. I know it's a bad analogy, but it makes sense.
"I know they have sheilds and all, but why don't they just pick em off with these super high accuracy sniper rifles?" Did you even hear yourself my dude? High velocity weapons don't work on sheilded things, therefore they need to re-hone melee tactics like special sword fighting skills that are slow enough to pass the sheilds. Also, if you shoot a laser at one of the shields, it causes a nuclear explosion, so if they all have their shields up together and one guy is shot with a laser sniper, say goodbye to the entire unit.
The Harkonnen did seem to be having some success with the long range weapons on the ornithopters against the Fremen. We are clearly confused about the tactics in Dune and the consequences of the shields!
@@SemiStableUniverse The Fremen don't use shields on the desert ground (so basically never), nor do the Harkonnen or anybody for that matter, the shields drive the worms into a "killing frenzy" so using sheilds on the sands is a sure way to call every worm in the area. The Dune universe is a fully realized place. Everything has a reason.
@@SemiStableUniverse If I had to sum it up, my main point is that instead of seeing curious things in the film (that was adapted from a 900 page book) and saying "Hmm, I wonder why they're doing that" you guys immediately say "Pfft, that's dumb. They shouldn't do that." Not a great way to critique a film adaptation of a lengthy book.
@@SemiStableUniverseyou can’t use shields in the desert, they attract sand worms. You guys gotta read the books before commenting on the perceived lack of structure of the dune universe. All the things hair dude mentioned in the first 30 seconds are explained in amazing depth. If you read the books you’ll think so much less of the movies.
The Fremen choose hardship therefore part of this culture is to carry their dead through the desert. The Fremen are in fact technically advanced in many ways, they have designed a clockwork compass, the still suit, even though it does have limits collects and processes evaporation of water, that is why its called a still suit. The Harkconnen are a brutal people, but have neglected their military strategies, in any case the Harkconnen pay for their armies who are made of the Sardaukar a military race who's soldiers come from a prison planet. Using a sword over more modern weapons is basically a culture thing most armies within the human civilisation of 10,191 who rid themselves of computers i.e. AI, thousands of years before the Dune story due to a AI war lasting 100 years. The use of stabbing bladed weapons doesnt rely on any ammo, to face your opponent in battle and see their death has become the right of all armies. Several cultures even now will kill another by face to face combat.
It seems like the Fremen have lots of contact with the greater Empire, but it's not really shown in the movies. The brutality of the Harkonnen is definitely shown! Why their soldiers continue to be sent to the slaughter, I'm not sure! Is sword fighting used because of a combination of shield technology and rules of war (enforced by an agreement between the houses)?
for the weapon penetrating the shield its not very well explained but i believe that its said he has to "lower" his shields to be able to fire at the fremen (so probably just make his shield much weaker) so paul was tricking him into making him lower his shields so it would be possible for the weapon to get through.
7:20 it happened over night means, that the ambush was that fast. The preparations and mainly the transit cost Harkonens decades of income from Arrakis, which as a source of the spice is the most valuable planet. Armies of other houses are relevent and she knows about them, she is bene gesserit after all. However the emperor has much stronger army then any one great house. The danger for them would be if the great houses would have united. Thats why the emperor conspired with the Harkonnens.
So the attack happened overnight, but wouldn't it take weeks and months of preparation? It does make sense that the Atreides didn't anticipate the attack, given the price that House Harkonnen paid. So the Emperor has a much stronger army than any house, but he was still threatened enough by House Atreides to collaborate with House Harkonnen? We still have lots to learn about the Universe of Dune!
@@SemiStableUniverse i did not realise how out of context my comment must have appeared...i just could not help but really crack up at your observation on the the lack of advertising at the harkonen stadium... i hope im now making senses. I absolutely loved your analysis...thank you.
21:13 . The Fremen know what evaporation is. This movie is pretty terrible. In the books, keeping water is like one of two centerpieces of their whole culture. The still suits are ridiculously effective at retaining water, something like not loosing more than a thimble full a day. A fremen would be killed for leaving a sietch with an improperly worn still suit. You can’t critique the cultures or actions based on a poorly done adaptation. Visually spectacular movie, but not a faithful adaptation. Can really only be effectively critiqued with the context of the amazingly complex and carefully thought out novels.
We struggled with where the Fremen would get all the tech required to get to “near zero evaporation” as well. Are they doing business with the rest of the empire?
@@SemiStableUniverse yes! they are even paying off the Spacing guild, why the Baron didnt know about the south, the spacing guild covered for the Fremen
There were also fremen in the cites on Arrakis, the desert fremen could come in an buy/sell stuff. The city fremen merchants would have off planet connections.
Interesting concept for a channel though I wonder if it wouldn't have been more instructive or at least complete in terms of context to instead address the actual novel upon which the two recent Dune film adaptations are based, but I get that people online are more about the films than the novel. Regardless, a clever approach.
I love this review/analysis. What I find funny though is that most of the criticisms, wastes of ammo, lack of proper logistics, inneficient strategies, people in power not seeming to know what is going on with militaries, consdiering the way the real works I actually consider all of these things 100% realistic to how a large governmental operation would work.
Glad you like the reivew/analysis! And we pretty much agree with you that the real world also works inefficiently! I think Dune's realism in this regard is one of the big reasons it's considered a classic!
also when you say "fremen are not a tech people" they actually are! fremen are just extremely well hidden but its stated in the books that they have underground factories and hence can make their own weapons and stilsuits!
Underground factories would concern me as they’d be obvious targets for the Harkonnen. The Harkonnen didn’t hit the big Fremen gathering though, so the Harkonnen’s capabilities are questionable!
There is a plot that is completely left out of the movies: Chani is the daughter of the IMPERIAL doctor Liet Kynes who is killed by the Sardaukar for helping Paul and Jessica. So it is possible that she has outside information because of her father - mother in the movie. The stories of the Bene Gesserit were mostly known by the Great Houses as the Bene Gesserit were married to everybody.
Back to Chani, however, in the books she is not at all against the faith and in fact she is one of the earlier supporter. No mention of doubting the prophecy.
That is an interesting aspect of her character that we didn't know at all!
6:44 I mean, the planning took months, but the act itself was done in a single night. So yes, she could say it took only a night for House Atreides to fall because that's how the war itself happened. No, she's not naive; she understands the difference between preparation and exection. It's like preparing a cake: you don't count how long it took to prepare it when you're talking about how long it took to eat it. I know it's a bad analogy, but it makes sense.
I see! She's just saying that the attack occurred overnight. She's not talking about the preparation.
"I know they have sheilds and all, but why don't they just pick em off with these super high accuracy sniper rifles?"
Did you even hear yourself my dude? High velocity weapons don't work on sheilded things, therefore they need to re-hone melee tactics like special sword fighting skills that are slow enough to pass the sheilds. Also, if you shoot a laser at one of the shields, it causes a nuclear explosion, so if they all have their shields up together and one guy is shot with a laser sniper, say goodbye to the entire unit.
The Harkonnen did seem to be having some success with the long range weapons on the ornithopters against the Fremen. We are clearly confused about the tactics in Dune and the consequences of the shields!
@@SemiStableUniverse The Fremen don't use shields on the desert ground (so basically never), nor do the Harkonnen or anybody for that matter, the shields drive the worms into a "killing frenzy" so using sheilds on the sands is a sure way to call every worm in the area. The Dune universe is a fully realized place. Everything has a reason.
@@SemiStableUniverse If I had to sum it up, my main point is that instead of seeing curious things in the film (that was adapted from a 900 page book) and saying "Hmm, I wonder why they're doing that" you guys immediately say "Pfft, that's dumb. They shouldn't do that." Not a great way to critique a film adaptation of a lengthy book.
@@SemiStableUniverseyou can’t use shields in the desert, they attract sand worms. You guys gotta read the books before commenting on the perceived lack of structure of the dune universe. All the things hair dude mentioned in the first 30 seconds are explained in amazing depth. If you read the books you’ll think so much less of the movies.
The Fremen choose hardship therefore part of this culture is to carry their dead through the desert. The Fremen are in fact technically advanced in many ways, they have designed a clockwork compass, the still suit, even though it does have limits collects and processes evaporation of water, that is why its called a still suit. The Harkconnen are a brutal people, but have neglected their military strategies, in any case the Harkconnen pay for their armies who are made of the Sardaukar a military race who's soldiers come from a prison planet. Using a sword over more modern weapons is basically a culture thing most armies within the human civilisation of 10,191 who rid themselves of computers i.e. AI, thousands of years before the Dune story due to a AI war lasting 100 years. The use of stabbing bladed weapons doesnt rely on any ammo, to face your opponent in battle and see their death has become the right of all armies. Several cultures even now will kill another by face to face combat.
It seems like the Fremen have lots of contact with the greater Empire, but it's not really shown in the movies.
The brutality of the Harkonnen is definitely shown! Why their soldiers continue to be sent to the slaughter, I'm not sure!
Is sword fighting used because of a combination of shield technology and rules of war (enforced by an agreement between the houses)?
for the weapon penetrating the shield its not very well explained but i believe that its said he has to "lower" his shields to be able to fire at the fremen (so probably just make his shield much weaker) so paul was tricking him into making him lower his shields so it would be possible for the weapon to get through.
The shield tech is cool, but I’m not sure all the consequences of such tech would lead to swords though! Their are lots of cool scenes though!
7:20 it happened over night means, that the ambush was that fast.
The preparations and mainly the transit cost Harkonens decades of income from Arrakis, which as a source of the spice is the most valuable planet.
Armies of other houses are relevent and she knows about them, she is bene gesserit after all.
However the emperor has much stronger army then any one great house. The danger for them would be if the great houses would have united. Thats why the emperor conspired with the Harkonnens.
So the attack happened overnight, but wouldn't it take weeks and months of preparation? It does make sense that the Atreides didn't anticipate the attack, given the price that House Harkonnen paid.
So the Emperor has a much stronger army than any house, but he was still threatened enough by House Atreides to collaborate with House Harkonnen? We still have lots to learn about the Universe of Dune!
no advertising🤣🤣🤣
?
@@SemiStableUniverse i did not realise how out of context my comment must have appeared...i just could not help but really crack up at your observation on the the lack of advertising at the harkonen stadium... i hope im now making senses. I absolutely loved your analysis...thank you.
21:13 . The Fremen know what evaporation is. This movie is pretty terrible. In the books, keeping water is like one of two centerpieces of their whole culture. The still suits are ridiculously effective at retaining water, something like not loosing more than a thimble full a day. A fremen would be killed for leaving a sietch with an improperly worn still suit. You can’t critique the cultures or actions based on a poorly done adaptation. Visually spectacular movie, but not a faithful adaptation. Can really only be effectively critiqued with the context of the amazingly complex and carefully thought out novels.
We struggled with where the Fremen would get all the tech required to get to “near zero evaporation” as well. Are they doing business with the rest of the empire?
@@SemiStableUniverse yes! they are even paying off the Spacing guild, why the Baron didnt know about the south, the spacing guild covered for the Fremen
@@SemiStableUniverse they use the spice to make a lot of stuff, trade with smugglers for other stuff. They can make a lot of their own stuff tho.
There were also fremen in the cites on Arrakis, the desert fremen could come in an buy/sell stuff. The city fremen merchants would have off planet connections.
Over analyze and nitpick much?
It's what we do!
Interesting concept for a channel though I wonder if it wouldn't have been more instructive or at least complete in terms of context to instead address the actual novel upon which the two recent Dune film adaptations are based, but I get that people online are more about the films than the novel. Regardless, a clever approach.
Thank you! Yeah, I read the book Dune when I was a teenager, but I think it might be time to re-read it and continue the series.